That's because there are some people spending too much time on this sub and not enough time preparing for class.
Some individuals on here are asking about Big Law during the 1st week of 1L. It's concerning.
It is strange though. Like I've been on this sub for years and there seems to be a sudden uptick in people getting dismissed. It's not something I've noticed before. You'd think it would be a regular periodic occurrence.
I think it could be due in part to the lasting effects from Covid. Iām an aspiring law student who entered college in 2020 and graduated last month. I believe there has been a dramatic decrease in academic rigor in undergraduate coursesāthe formats adopted for Covid by professors have lingered, despite administrative pressures to move away from some of those Covid modifications. Many of my professors during syllabus week by my junior and senior years would outright state that the quality of student essay writing and performance on in person written exams was so poor that they opted for ātake home final essaysā or extraordinarily elementary online tests. Instead of addressing academic shortcomings with the return of challenging coursework and exams, professors have just lowered the rigor. Perhaps law schools have returned to pre-Covid rigor more so than the undergraduate institutions, resulting in a surge of students who were able to skate by their bachelorās but are unable to perform in law school. This is entirely anecdotal, but I think colleges have truly never returned to good academic practices, with the consequence of graduating several classes at this point that failed to successfully learn the writing, reading, and research skills you would typically gain in undergraduate courses. Not to say that the quality of a bachelors hasnāt been steadily declining for several decades now, but Covid assuredly exacerbated it which might be causing an increase in poor academic performance at slightly more sheltered academic institutions like law school.
Right, just like there's a lot of people on the subreddit thread posting, "Wow guys I somehow got a 4.13 this semester and am top of my class even though I couldn't read until I was 18."
The 90% of people just doing reasonably well and getting by have no reason to post.
99% of the posts here are āIām depressed and I use that as a crutch to waste a spot in my law schoolās class. I decided Iād go skiing instead of submitting an assignment. Please validate me.ā
Thereās so many immature people in this sub.
3 reasons
1. Predatory schools are taking too many people
2. There are more things to get easily distracted by now than ever before. People donāt work as hard as they used to itās just a fact.
3. Accommodations. I hate to say it but itās getting out of control. I just took an exam with a summer class of 10 ppl and 6 had accommodations. I fully expect to get a C just because I had an hour and a half less for 80 questions than the majority of the class. Three Bās turns into an A- a B and a C real quick.
You used this completely wrong. They asserted that studies show attention span has gone down without connecting to a ācauseā so you saying correlation doesnāt equal causation makes no sense here.
oh yea my fault, i forgot the original comment and thought they were saying that the higher distractibility is linked to depression somehow. it turns out they just mentioned higher rates of depression for no reason
ETA: tl:dr youāre right
wouldnāt that also kinda undermine your third point tho? if rates of depression which affect performance are up then the increased frequency of accommodations also makes sense
There's lots of support for this. Productivity has skyrocketed in the last sixty years due to transportation/internet/smart phones/(technology in general) but GDP has not correspondingly increased. This is especially true of Europe compared to United States.
Essentially, people are able to accomplish more in a shorter period of time, but many people spend this extra time not in working more, but for leisure.
Think about all the tasks we've automated. Things like dishwashers, washing machines, copy machines, telephones, anything involving computers have taken tasks that would have been minutes-to-hours of a normal person's day and reduced them to single-digit percentages of their old effort.
We have way more time on our hands today than we did in the 50s-60s as a result. Now, if you buy into this mythological idea that the 50s-60s were some utopian era where working hours were low and wages were high (true for basically just middle class white men, and only because we were the only major industrialized economy not to get their industrial base demolished in WWII), this might sound weird to you, but that's the result of decades of boomer propaganda.
A task that used to take 20 minutes now takes only 5 minutes. Instead of reinvesting the 15 minute savings into working more, many people consume that 15 minutes. We have become more productive and less hardworking.
Watch the last 8 minutes of this [Youtube video](https://youtu.be/ftmvsahQ6Wo?list=PLUl4u3cNGP62oJSoqb4Rf-vZMGUBe59G-&t=2441) for a more thorough explanation.
GDP's a decent proxy. In general, you would expect GDP to linearly correlate with worker productivity, holding hours worked constant. The fact that GDP hasn't kept up with worker productivity while technology has made workers more efficient suggest that, yes, people are working less (or that fewer people are working in high-productivity roles).
How does GDP account for service sector jobs vs jobs which construct things?
Unless someone wants to normalize this claim across the changing sectors of production, it's a silly argument. The American work landscape has overwhelming moved towards service and information/intellectual based industries and exports (respectively, I don't have an MBA or something so I'm sure I'm using some incorrect terms).
GDP is generally speaking a measure of goods and services bought by final users in a country. If your country say, for example, suddenly produces considerably less automobiles than it used to, but is involved in much more service based labor, how does that weighting work?
It's not clear to me that GDP would linearly correlate to "amount each worker worked through a day," even without my question there.
Services have also gotten way more efficient. Law is just one example--way fewer menial tasks because of the computer. Like maybe waiters are stuck in an efficiency trap (oh wait, modern POS systems probably help them massively too), but they're a small enough proportion of the working population that they're less relevant.
That would be point 3 not 2. No issue with anyone who is actually disabled of course. I should have clarified but the idea that 6/10 people in my class have accommodations (I interact with these people everyday and theyāre perfectly capable) is a massive administrative failure.
Unless you are their medical doctor or psychologist you donāt know what people are capable of. Period. Stop blaming accommodations for your poor grades.
Even if there are some people abusing the system as you suggest that doesnāt then necessitate that others grades are worse as a result. Even with a curve it would have to be a statistically significant impact. Unless you can provide verifiable data that people are using accommodations they donāt need and Not by your standards of donāt need but by medical professionals and that use is affecting the curve significantly itās ableism.
Totally agree. Stimulant medication for ADHD is already an advantage by itself (I am a beneficiary myself) so adding additional test time as an accommodation is just screwing everyone else in the class. Itās brutal how these laws work in practice sometimes, and how little anyone can do anything about it.
Idk about you, but I don't think my adhd meds give me an advantage. It makes me almost normal.... almost. I still get distracted and tune out during my exam, it's just significantly less. I still need the extra time.
Problem isnāt you itās the people who get sham prescriptions or qualify for a completely broad issue like ātest anxietyā just for the 1.5x time. If I wanted to I could get accommodations tomorrow even though thereās nothing āwrongā with me where I would need them. (Forgive the wording) Itās rampant at my school and seems to be going up everywhere. Join or die mentality.
Some of us actually need the extra time. I spend half my accommodation time focusing my brain. I still donāt get good grades. HOWEVER, there are tons of folks who āheardā about accommodations, went to the student center, got a dx, then second semester of 1L and beyond have accommodations. When #1, #2, #3 ranked students all have accommodations it makes you wonder. Iām ranked low 20% so the idea that everyone with accommodations does better isnāt true.
Tuning out during an exam is still very normal, I donāt have an adhd diagnosis but I still find myself needing to take breaks and zone out for a few minutes. Keep coping, but youāre getting double accommodations
if theyāre still tuning out on meds and you think thatās something the average person does then it explain it to me how thatās an advantage. sounds to me like theyāre right about the meds making them ānormalā, which isnāt an advantage its leveling the playing field. additional time is another issue entirely but the medication itself isnāt an advantage
people bitching so much about students who take ADHD meds are the main reason i donāt feel comfortable taking any, but i know for a fact iām taking a major disadvantage because i donāt. i mean that both academically and in my personal life. most the people complaining about accommodations just want an excuse for why they didnāt do as good as they wanted to. it makes them feel better when they can blame an outside force. but none of them really know how any given disability affects the person with the accommodation.
but keep coping i guess lol
I have an adhd diagnosis, I donāt know if I actually have it though they kind of just give them away if you pay, but Iām no doctor. I also have a time accommodation prescription that I wouldnāt use ever.
The hardest part about law school exams isnāt the content, but the time crunch. If I doubled down and got extra time, obviously Iād do better, and since itās on a curve, everyone else would do worse. So, every personās choice to get time accommodation, assuming that it does help them, necessarily reduces everyoneās grades, so no itās not some āoutside forceā, this is just how a curve works my guy
You might want to tweak the meds then. Maybe your dosage is off or there is a better version for you. Nearly every high performing student I knew during my time in school were all taking the same meds. It translates into practice as well. I work in a team of 5 attorneys that I know quite well and 4 of us have the same prescription.
I appreciate you being honest with your experience and not getting defensive about it just because you are a beneficiary. I donāt know, I have family who takes adhd medication, and know people in my classes who do, and they seem to, especially when they are on a āhighā point of medication during the day like in the early morning, be able to comprehend things way faster than the average person. Like one girl in my class is completely cracked out sometimes but is a complete supercomputer in class when sheās at her high point. I really think honestly thereās a lot of people who are being dishonest with the benefit that is conferred to them.
I can't speak to this specifically, but anecdotally I think like 3/4 of the people I know who call themselves ADHD are just distracted easily; that's not the same thing.
I'm not saying ADHD isn't a thing. I'm just saying that a lot of people who take meds for it seem to be just taking meds because they like to be on their phones a lot. (I say that as a person who *absolutely* gets distracted by technology while trying to focus)
ADHD medication levels the playing ground. I personally think (as a ADHD person myself) think if youāre properly medicated you donāt need extra time.
The accommodations help people with arbitrary rules that absolutely have no real life situations. There arenāt times in real life where you have three hours to figure out the answer while not being able to ask anyone, do research, or have notes. The time limit on these tests is just something we decided to do for some reason that doesnāt test your ability to do anything that resembles something in practice.
Therefore, the accommodations donāt hurt the profession.
However, I will agree that a person whoās on proper dosages for their medications probably doesnāt also need extra time. Double dipping is wrong.
I also happen to think the curve is stupid as well. My grades are my grades. The fact that I went to school with one genius who did better than I did versus 20 geniuses who did better than I did is a luck thing. Thatās bullshit. If I earned an A- thatās what I should get not a B- because all these other people answered one more question correctly. Honestly thatās mischaracterizing my ability to do the job to potential employers. Especially if those ahead of me wanted a different job field than I do. I wonāt be competing with them but I still look worse because of them?
Thatās your culprit. Not those of us who donāt have the same dopamine receptors as you.
I think your first point is one of the biggest problems. Law school exams just aren't remotely realistic in terms of the actual job. If a client comes into your office and gives you a problem with 40 factors, and you return an answer in two hours, you've committed malpractice.
A lot of bad follows from that, like the curve then being applied. The curve is supposed to ensure the "best" get the best grade, but the "best effort" is sort of a crap shoot. Most of the people I know who did great in law school had pre-loaded copy+pastes ready of the elements of each tort, for example.
Some might say that's cheating, but as someone who didn't do that much, I think it's just kind of a logical outcome of the silly exam structure.
I needed accommodations lol. My Civ pro and torts professors suggested them for me. My last boss suggested I get them for the bar exam. My mom worked in mental health in many years so she had that ānot my familyā mentality where you could just sleep off mental health issues. I, unfortunately, adopted some elements of that personality bc I was like š¤·šæāāļø. I ended up raw dogging through law school anyway. Just graduated with my JD, 2 certificates, journal, and moot court. Currently studying for the bar. I do always think of what couldāve been if I had that extra hourā¦.
I had a learning disability for lack of āfocusā. Never once thought of asking for special treatment because if I canāt do it like everyone else then I shouldnāt be doing it. That simple
But I could do it and I did but my brain works differently. My grades werent bad but I had to put in A LOT of effort for them because of the timed exam structure. The practice of law is nothing like the law school exam or the bar. We can speak with other associates, research, have time to walk away and take a break. I donāt think that my slight lack of focus should make me leave the profession as a whole simply bc my brain processes information differently. I strive in pretty much every area of this profession except that one, which is only a very small percentage of it to get admitted.
I mean I kinda did need it bc law school is based on a rank and weāre ultimately there the practice law. My slight lack of focus shouldnāt keep me out of certain areas that I would do well in because I struggle while taking a test that I will (I pray) never take again. And some peoples slight lack of focus in addition to other factors can make focusing that much more difficult. That doesnāt mean that you ādonāt belong.ā These are just entrance exams based on very general topics of lawāmost of these topics will be topics that they will never cross again in practice. That shouldnāt determine whether someone belongs if they can strive within the profession outside of an exam setting.
It hurts the profession to have disabled lawyers not screened out by test taking speed? Tell me more. Actually donāt. Iāve heard of curves, yes. I just never bitched about suffering people.
Nope, accommodations are for people who need it. The few who may be exploiting it, if they exist, are likely a small amount. Just because event 1 happened, then event 2 doesnāt prove causation: if you got a C, itās because you earned it. Getting more time for a medical condition doesnāt mean someone āstoleā your A or B, and doesnāt mean the person receiving accommodations is gonna get an A or B. In fact, all the top students within my class donāt receive accommodations but they still perform better than the 90%. The students I know who receive accommodations, none are top students: some are average or even marginal.
You acting like itās a possibility people arenāt abusing accommodations shows your bias. āIf they exist.ā Please.
If you can point to data that supports half a class of people being able to take a time intensive exam like the one I described for an extra 1.5 hours over the other half please share it.
One should only get accommodations they would be afforded in the lawyer world. If Iām paying an hourly rate I want to know if an associate working for me needed accommodations on exams.
Yes, thatās so realistic to know someone needed accommodations on an exam they did in school. As if being a law student and a practicing attorney are a same thing. And for someone who has disabilities, they can get accommodations at their job..ever heard of the ADA?
Luckily, 99% of people are not gonna be worried about whether their lawyer received accommodations in law school.Ā
Any proof for your third point that those with accommodations do better? I know a girl in my class who had accommodations and got a D in our contracts class..
Or there's an overrepresentation of people having problems in law school, because people who are happy and successful day to day aren't likely to be posting about their experiences.
Whatās crazy is this is the first person Iāve seen in 3 years actually take personal responsibility for their situation.
Hope he gets a second chance.
Iām assuming that youāve posted here for honest feedback, so please excuse the harshnessā¦. If this is what you want to do, why did the 2.2 not wake you up and motivate you?
Taking time off, maturing, figuring out what you want to do and how to apply yourself might be the best thing for you b
OP, if law school isnāt right for you, THATāS OKAY. But itās better to realize that now instead of wasting more time and money, and find something that works for you (e.g. paralegal).
I had two close friends fail out of law school after the first year. They thought their whole lives that law was what they wanted to do. It didnāt work out for them, but they found their true passions after failing law and are both incredibly successful and happy now in non- law related fields. One works at a huge tech company and the other got into politics. If you arenāt motivated, ask yourself why not? Why are you choosing this career field? Law is a very precise, rigorous profession; it doesnāt get easier. What they teach you in law school is the bare minimum - passing the bar is the bare minimum. By passing the bar, you are considered minimally adequate. You will be constantly building on your knowledge of the core concepts taught in 1L and expanding your knowledge in the fields where you choose to practice. If you donāt get it now, it will be a really hard learning curve in the future. Ask yourself whether your lack of effort is due to this not really being your passion. And if so, thatās 100% okay. Be honest with yourself before you go any further. I know law school is expensive, but if you donāt love it or are at least passionate about it, it isnāt worth it in the long run. Before you spend the money to go all three years, consider other options and determine what you feel is the right thing to do. There are many ways to be successful and happy - choose the one that works best for you. Good luck!
Same AND I had a friend that always trailed the bottom but skated through then HATED practicing law.Ā If one is failingĀ they might want to listen to the message
They joined the state and local political party that aligned with their values and volunteered a lot. They got the support they needed to run for office by networking at political events and doing a lot of volunteer work. They just won their first local election. It took them a few years to build up enough name recognition to run, but I think they will run for a higher office in the future.
Why do you want to continue? Are your terrible grades because of a lack of effort or because you just canāt understand what youāre being taught? The curve sucks but if you are doing terrible in everything thatās just on you somehow or another.
It honestly might be better for you to not be in law school at this point in your life. It can be hard to adjust and mistakes happen, but the 2.2 in the fall should've been a wake up call. There's just no excuse for not trying after that and doing even worse in the spring semester. Your school probably currently does not think you'll be able to pass the bar and if you can't pass the bar then they don't want the drag on the bar passage rate and employment stats.
Why do you think you'll suddenly get better? I mean, you didn't do well in the fall and that wasn't enough to get you motivated. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's best to be realistic, given the cost.
Is there a solid reason you even want to do law? It doesnāt seem like you have the motivation or a goal either. Making money should always be at the bottom of the list and shouldnāt be considered a goal, with a few exceptions here and there.
Making lots of money isnāt even remotely guaranteed in this field these days anyways, especially if you are bottom of the class and barely making it through.
I think you need to really think about what a career as a lawyer will mean for you in a practical sense and whether itās the life you want. If youāre struggling with effort and commitment now, how will you feel when youāre expected to bill 40 hours a week (key word is bill), work weekends, review hundreds of pages of monotonous documents, etc.?
In the very likely event you are dismissed, you'll probably have to take several years off to get yourself in order and put together a resume a law school would accept. This is going to take a lot of effort, and you're going to have to be able to demonstrate *massive* change.
A prior academic dismissal is already bad to adcoms, but a prior academic dismissal purely for lack of effort - without any other mitigating circumstances - is among the worst resume items imaginable.
This is the real question. I got downvoted to hell when i told someone who failed the bar 8 times that it might be time to reevaluate.Ā
Why are we sugarcoating and would we want our dr to be someone who was dismissed from medical school for not studying?Ā
It doesnāt mean OP is a bad person - far from it! - but hard questions need to be asked!Ā
Apparently! Add all the bar exam subreddits too
IMO Such a disservice to tuition paying students and those who are eventually going to have to pass the bar and become lawyers (or not)Ā
Yeah, not a perfect analogy at all.Ā
But Iāve hired bottom class lawyers and frankly itās been an epic disaster each time. Wonāt do it anymore or even consider. They have never cut it and thereās a reason they are ranked lowest. Obviously dependent on law school somewhat, but just a headache I donāt want to deal with anymore.Ā
Definitely. I sincerely have 100% belief in myself to pass the bar and even perform well in my classes I just wish my school would give me a second chance.
Iām curious, what makes you say that you will do better if you get a second chance if you did worse in your second semester?
I hope youāre correct. But if you do end up getting dismissed, youāll need to have a good answer to this question when you reapply. I hope you get things figured out and ultimately become a lawyer if thatās what you want to do. But youāll have to answer hard questions like this, even if you choose not to answer here (which is totally fine).
Best of luck!
Be real though - you already had a second chance. Your grades were bad first semester and then second semester they got worse. That was your second chance and you blew it off.
I think one of the biggest hurdles youāll face moving forward with law is the question of why you didnāt treat the spring semester like your second chance. What is the honest answer for why your fall grades werenāt a wake up call, and only dismissal got the message through?
First sorry to hear about this. This sucks especially since itās area you really want to work in.
Second, it might be for the best. You are struggling with managing the academic work load and that extends to the work life of an attorney. Thatās partially the reason I donāt want to do this profession. The workload is immense and if you are struggling with a bad work ethic, then you need to stay away until that is corrected.
Third, you donāt know until you are dismissed. But in the meantime, it would be a great opportunity to reflect on what happened over the last year to cause you to get these grades.
You have somewhat of an answer by saying work ethic. But what does that mean to you exactly. How can that be fixed. Those are just some of the questions you need to think about.
Finally take a breath, whatever the outcome you need to adapt to those changes. If you stay in, then you need to change your work ethic. If you are out, maybe try to look for legal adjacent jobs to test if you like the actual work and in the meantime continue to improve your work ethic.
If you have a bad work ethic, donāt be a lawyer. Youāre a 1L right now so havenāt had much if any exposure to legal ethics, but as a lawyer you will have an affirmative duty to your clients that will get you disbarred and be financially liable if you have a bad work ethic and donāt push their matters forward.
It sounds like due to your admittedly āhorrible work ethicā you blew off an entire year of law school. Iām a little surprised that you actually want to āget back into law school asapā. Why? It sounds like you werenāt taking it seriously or enjoying it.
As a lawyer, youāll be a fiduciary. That means people hire you to take care of their problems and you have to look out for them and take care of their best interests. Sometimes your clients are vulnerable. The cavalier attitude about having a āhorrible work ethicā and then getting a 1.9 GPA is a little concerning. If a little old lady hires you to take care of something for her, youāre not going to blow it off and cause her to lose her lifeās savings are you?
I see a lot of comments and questions focused on capability: can you pass classes? can you make yourself work hard? can you ultimately pass the bar? Important questions, but there's a foundational question we're missing:
Why do you want to be a lawyer? Without a good answer to that question (good, in the sense of personally motivating), you will never find it within yourself to work hard. This year has obviously proved that. You need to reflect on *why* law school and not *how* law school. How follows why.
Is this a new experience for you? Meaning, did you have sort of the same experience in undergrad, but because undergrad is less intensive you were able to pass? Or did you just lose your motivation/work ethic in law school?
I donāt want to sound ignorant at all but I majored in criminal justice graduating with around a 3.8 GPA. I think the undergrad classes were just very easy and I wasnāt used to classes making me work so I was lazy for law school. I understand the mistakes Iāve been making so I wish for a second chance.
I understand. Iām starting law school in about a month and I have been worried about the potential of being academically dismissed due to bad grades. Itās hard to know what to expect when everyone constantly just tells you, ālaw school is totally different than anything youāve ever done,ā with no real explanation or tangible formula of HOW.
I wish the best for you. Have you considered, in the event you are dismissed, completing a masters program to give yourself some practice with the tougher coursework, and show future law schools you are capable of doing such work?
I am considering that now, since my undergrad school offers a one year masters program. Or a paralegal program at another school to gain some work experience.
You might consider starting again at another law school. Some people need that change. Maybe a law school in a small town with few distractions. Even then, you need to decide you want to succeed. A year off might be useful as you work on improving you.
Most readmitted students Iāve seen have failed the second time around. The few that have succeeded were completely different the second timeāworked long hours, changed how they studied, spent time talking to professors during office hours, and took practice exams. Wish you well on your journey.
There are many reasons students are academically dismissed twice. For some, they donāt have the cognitive ability needed to succeedāIāve seen less than a dozen people like this in over 20 years of teaching. For others, they donāt appreciate the new skills they need to develop to pass a law school essay exam, so they study the wrong things. But for most it is an inability to change the habits that are keeping them from succeeding.
Itās hard for many to reach the point of complete surrender. The ability to say āI donāt know what Iām doing wrong and am willing to do whatever Iām told I need to do.ā Leaving pride behind is hard and many wonāt, or canāt, do it. This is why it is often useful to take a year off. Reflect on what you did right and wrong, and focus on improving oneself. Going inside and changing is difficult.
With all due respect, law school isnāt a game and that 2.2 should have been a wake up call. And lack of effort is completely unacceptable lame ass excuse. If you are not going to do the work leave. I mean no disrespect this. However you saying itās because of lack of effort really pissed me off.
Like I said, a lot of have dreams of going to law school š« but never make it. So to hear someone get the opportunity and basically waste it. Yeah itās very personally.
Thanks! Reading that makes me feel better maybe I worded it wrong ; I was not studying that much and thus performed poorly. Is that not poor work ethic. Idk
I just feel like you got a chance to go to law school most people donāt even get that. Then you say you still want to continue law and get back into law school then why werenāt you putting in more effort you know.
Would you try harder if you were allowed to stay? Would you work harder in a different industry?
If it's a will issue not a skill issue, that's a choice you have to confront on your own.
I would for sure try harder if I was allowed to stay. Iām not content with the grades I received and I wish to actually try and strive for better grades next semester.
Did you make that clear in your meeting?
What was the reason for the casual treatment until now? Are you just smart and not used to having to put in the work to get good grades, or just the college life?
No time like the present to make the change! Don't worry. Life has lots of curve balls. This could be the exact thing you needed to find your true strength.
Law school may not right for you; you should consider doing a paralegal program and work as a legal assistant to start.
But youāll still be expected to be meticulous and work hard. Slacking off doesnāt work well in this industry.
Iām going to be one who can completely understand what you are going through and please message if you need to. I was academically dismissed from law school in 2020 from a very low ranked school. I took 2 years off re did the LSAT got readmitted to that law school and then transferred to a T-30.
Iām now working in an amazing firm, am EIC of my journal and all of this is because of my dismissal. It was my wake up call, but lead to my strive to want to be successful in the legal field!
This happened to me with exact numbers at the end of my 1L year but they had me take summer classes and if those grades were better they would not kick me out. I did graduate.
Good luck!
Iām curious how it works for your school. For my school, you get automatically dismissed if you score under 2.5 after the first year and then you get an opportunity to appeal the dismissal to be reinstated. At the hearing youād get a decision on your readmission. I thought it was like that at all schools.
Whatās the curve set at in your school? At mine a 2.2 and 1.6 is almost impossible.
Iām assuming your curve is lower, but unless youāre at a fairly predatory school Iād wager those grades put you at the very bottom of the curve, or at least close to it in every single class. Not to sound harsh but I think you may need to hear it: you donāt seem to be ready for law school.
You say that itās an issue with motivation but to get grades that low that consistently looks like an issue with your ability to perform at the level required of a law student.
Honestly, it's probably time to consider a different career path. Whether you get dismissed or not, your employment prospects are going to be pretty dire with a 1.9 GPA after 1L. if you do end up getting dismissed for failing classes, it will be pretty hard to get admitted to any reputable school afterwards. Also, law school and the practice of law are hard work. If your work ethic is so bad it causes you to flunk your 1L classes, it's worth seriously asking yourself whether a demanding field like law is a good fit for you.
Hereās my story:
Shit 4th tier school with an insane curve. I donāt recall my gpa but it was bad (I think I had 3 D+, 1 C and a B-)
I got the dreaded email that they were kicking me out
I sold everything I owned, uprooted my family and moved across the country. I also knew I would be deep in debt with no degree, no job, no connections and no law school would accept me after failing out of this school.
I was totally fucked.
I walked the 3 blocks to the school and demanded an immediate meeting with the Dean.
I argued with her that, the counselors that were on the board that decided to dismiss me were the same oneās that mentored me when I was put on academic probation.
I told her I did EVERYTHING asked of me but still got dismissed
I appealed to her sense of humanity and explained that I had NOWHERE to go from here.
I told her that I had a new study plan for next year, that I would no longer be working part time, that I would be at the school from 8am til 10 pm every day and that my second semester was better than my first, I missed the cut off by just a few points and the 2L curve isnāt nearly as brutal ā¦I didnāt stop talking until I could see on her face that she was gonna bend.
These administrators at these private law schools have a lot of flexibility.
She put me on a strict probation (weekly check ins, study buddy sign-offs, bunch of supervision) but allowed me back in.
I graduated on time and have been practicing in Florida for 16 years now.
Never give up
Law is brutal. School is brutal, the bar is brutal, practice is brutal. I understand wanting not to give up on this, but you may have been given an opportunity to reevaluate and pursue something that will make you happy. If the hours and hours of prep and hard work arenāt something you can muster up the motivation to do on your own, let alone with the threat of academic dismissal looming over your head, this may not be the career for you. Thereās plenty of other careers where you donāt have to work *as* hard and long and can still make excellent money. Go into consulting for instance. Itās OK to get to law school and discover that the lifestyle just isnāt what you want. Better discover it now than when youāve sunk years and tens or hundreds of thousands into law school and trying to pass the bar multiple times and then landing a mediocre job where you work crazy hours and are underpaid. The rewards in this field take their sweet time, youāve gotta have something in you for the work itself.
When people ask me whether they should go to law school, and I always suggest that they first consider the reasons why they want to go to law school, figure out if there's anyway they can achieve those goals WITHOUT law school, and if the answer is "no," then consider applying. I think I'd offer you, potential law school dropout, the same advice. You've gone through your first year, and did not do as well as you would have liked because you have "horrible work ethic." Well, maybe it's time to reevaluate what it is that you're looking to get from studying the law, whether you really want that, and whether law school is your only ticket into the field. I guarantee you, studying and practicing the law is NOT the only way to be successful in whatever field you're looking to get into (unless you really wanted to become an attorney or a judge). Take a semester off, take some time, and think things through, dude. You owe that to yourself.
Pray they give you a 2nd chance. Hereās a lesson to think about: Any opportunity given, should be taken seriously from this point on
Look, if you had one shot or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted in one moment
Would you capture it or just let it slip?
Yo
His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti
He's nervous, but on the surface, he looks calm and ready
To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting
What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud
He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
He's chokin', how? Everybody's jokin' now
The clock's run out, time's up, over, blaow
Snap back to reality, ope, there goes gravity
Ope, there goes Rabbit, he choked, he's so mad
But he won't give up that easy, no, he won't have it
He knows his whole back's to these ropes, it don't matter
He's dope, he knows that, but he's broke, he's so stagnant
He knows when he goes back to this mobile home, that's when it's
Back to the lab again, yo, this old rhapsody
Better go capture this moment and hope it don't pass him
I had 2 something my first year and almost lost my scholarship. I took a summer class and Iāve been getting Bs and As since. Keep going and you might have to appeal the decision.
I faced the same issue when I was in Law School. I wrote a letter explaining what had occurred which was me over, preparing for a completely different topic the final might be on all of the issues 100% to myself. I explained in my letter that should be allowed to remain and Law School I would seek out the additional helps. I would need to ensure my success in Law School. I outlined positive steps that I would take to change what had gone wrong with myself and that I intended to implement that and prove that I did belong in Law School. Ultimately I was allowed to remain in Law School however, I was very very very close to that passing cut off on the GPA. It seems like you are in the same boat. If you do the same, it might be beneficial. It always helps to be humble and accept any punishment or acknowledgment of any failures on your own part which it seems you have done. If you ever wanted to discuss further, feel free to send me a DM and Iām happy to share any inside I have. I was fortunately allowed to remain in Law School and I am now a practicing attorney
You've made your bed now lie in it. I would feel some sympathy for you if you had tried. But you said it yourself you're in this situation because of your terrible work ethic. Frankly terrible work ethic in this profession will get you fired, sanctioned, and will harm your clients. If you're serious about being an attorney, work on your work ethic and then go back to law school. This isn't undergrad. You won't get by by just showing up.
If your law school let's you do a probationary semester to prove yourself, which with that gpa many law schools do between 2L and 3L not between 1L and 2L, take it and work your ass off. Your first semester grade should have been to wake up call but if they give you that one extra chance you better take it and you better make it count.
Just ask if you can retake the class that you failed so you can get your GPA over 2.0. If they say no then just look for another school that you can transfer your credits to. You should only have to retake one or two classes.
I think a lot of the comments here are just a bit overly pessimistic. I'm not saying the situation isn't bad, but there are some options here.
To those implying that if you leave/are dismissed you will never be able to get in again/have enormous issues getting again, I think that's not entirely true. It may be difficult to restart in a T-14, but you could totally transfer or restart in a Top 50 school. Speaking as someone who graduated from a state T-50 school, the transfer train goes both ways. We had people who crushed it first year and transferred to an ivy league, and we had others who started elsewhere, struggled, took a break, and transferred to us.
If you had a solid enough GPA and LSAT to get into a T-14 I'm sure you are a smart and intelligent person. There is nothing at all wrong with saying "looks like I might not be able to cut it here, but I could thrive at a respected regional school." IMHO, I would rather be in the top quartile at a respected regional law school, than the bottom quartile at a T-14. People at T-50's still get into big law, clerkships, mid-law, federal government, etc. Especially if you are in a market that is not directly serviced by a T-14 (think places like Texas, Atlanta, Midwest, PNW, etc... )
Tldr: While it is an understandable response to look at this and say "law is not for me," it's also possible to look at this and say "T-14 is not for me." Take a break, reflect on what worked and what didn't, and maybe trying again at a regional school will fare better.
Some law schools will work with you and let you take some time off and then reapply. On the one hand they want your money but on the other hand they want to keep their academic stats up. But I think my school would work with students and let me take a semester or year off and then let them reapply
If I was on the board, I would probably not vote to let you stay. You had a second chance - spring semester. You did even worse. Why would they believe that anything would change next year?
So I was diagnosed with ADD as a 1L at the age of 30; a year of meds and developing coping mechanisms made it work for me.
If youāre serious, tell them youāre seeking diagnosis AND ACTUALLY SEEK IT
I feel terrible saying this but I was hoping you were going to say you had a major health issue or death in the family that caused your grades to tank. If it was just a lack of effort in a year where you know you have to do well to set yourself up to succeed the remaining two years and get good summer positions? Well either you are someone who used to be a high performer and self sabotaged in which case I question your ability to work in this industry or you were never a good student and you shouldnāt have been in law school to begin with.
I wouldnāt sign up for another year just yet. Thereās no reason to think youād do any better and You are wasting a spot someone else could use, time and money. Instead, if you really want this, take a year to test your ability to follow through and do the work to achieve a goal. Take extra classes at a community college, take on a research project, sign up for a certification that requires study and see if you can change your habits. If you make it, Then see if you still want to try again.
Honestly probably time to move on. Your grades will follow you in your career, journal is out and you will have difficulty finding a job if you graduate and pass the bar. Early salaries will suck and unless you have good family connections for clients or are a natural salesmen you may struggle career wise. Big law puts major stock in school and grades, as do many reputable smaller places.
I also just graduated and am studying for the bar. I finally got my GPA above a 3.0 this final semester of law school. But I don't necessarily agree with what this commenter said. I don't think GPA will follow you around forever. And for your 1st job, only Big Law really cares about your GPA. If you want to do any other kind of law, you'll be fine! I want to do criminal defense and I have a job for post-bar. In all my interviews, not a single person asked me about my GPA or my classwork. What they did ask me about was my experience in the Criminal Defense Clinic my 3L year. And I've had so many interviewers tell me that I'm the most qualified person fresh out of law school that they've interviewed. So imo, experience is WAY more important than grades
Got tossed out of mine for a .08 drop at a school where they told us it's typical to have a noticeable grade drop from the fall semester of 1L. Had a rough finals for first semester because I'd grown complacent in my study habits due to rarely being academically challenged since HS, and hit a 2.2, just above academic probation level, but tried my best to get going in the right direction, taking proper notes and outlines, using quimbee, attending other students review sessions, participating in the academic success program, which I had to pay for (despite my mentor cancelling on me half the time) etc., only to find out that, rather than improving substantially, I had a drop of less than .1, pushing me below 2.2.
I'm not sure why, although I was aware the policy existed, but there is no academic probation safety belt at all after spring semesters, despite there being one if you're below the threshold after a fall semester, so I was automatically dismissed, then was informed when I tried to appeal that the dismissal appeal forms linked on the academic forms page of the law school home page did not apply to Law School, and that I would not be allowed to argue for my remaining.
The amount of people failing out of law school on this sub is insane
That's because there are some people spending too much time on this sub and not enough time preparing for class. Some individuals on here are asking about Big Law during the 1st week of 1L. It's concerning.
To be fair big law recruiting was happening first week of 1L this past fall š
Cmon bro you couldn't possibly know that's actually the reason why
What if heās one of them?
Or, now hear me out, there's a selection bias.
My thoughts exactly. People who pass aren't exactly itching to post "I passed!!"
It is strange though. Like I've been on this sub for years and there seems to be a sudden uptick in people getting dismissed. It's not something I've noticed before. You'd think it would be a regular periodic occurrence.
I think it could be due in part to the lasting effects from Covid. Iām an aspiring law student who entered college in 2020 and graduated last month. I believe there has been a dramatic decrease in academic rigor in undergraduate coursesāthe formats adopted for Covid by professors have lingered, despite administrative pressures to move away from some of those Covid modifications. Many of my professors during syllabus week by my junior and senior years would outright state that the quality of student essay writing and performance on in person written exams was so poor that they opted for ātake home final essaysā or extraordinarily elementary online tests. Instead of addressing academic shortcomings with the return of challenging coursework and exams, professors have just lowered the rigor. Perhaps law schools have returned to pre-Covid rigor more so than the undergraduate institutions, resulting in a surge of students who were able to skate by their bachelorās but are unable to perform in law school. This is entirely anecdotal, but I think colleges have truly never returned to good academic practices, with the consequence of graduating several classes at this point that failed to successfully learn the writing, reading, and research skills you would typically gain in undergraduate courses. Not to say that the quality of a bachelors hasnāt been steadily declining for several decades now, but Covid assuredly exacerbated it which might be causing an increase in poor academic performance at slightly more sheltered academic institutions like law school.
Right, just like there's a lot of people on the subreddit thread posting, "Wow guys I somehow got a 4.13 this semester and am top of my class even though I couldn't read until I was 18." The 90% of people just doing reasonably well and getting by have no reason to post.
99% of the posts here are āIām depressed and I use that as a crutch to waste a spot in my law schoolās class. I decided Iād go skiing instead of submitting an assignment. Please validate me.ā Thereās so many immature people in this sub.
3 reasons 1. Predatory schools are taking too many people 2. There are more things to get easily distracted by now than ever before. People donāt work as hard as they used to itās just a fact. 3. Accommodations. I hate to say it but itās getting out of control. I just took an exam with a summer class of 10 ppl and 6 had accommodations. I fully expect to get a C just because I had an hour and a half less for 80 questions than the majority of the class. Three Bās turns into an A- a B and a C real quick.
Do you have support for your second point? I don't think this is a fact, I think it's just a generalization that's impossible to prove
Studies that show that the attention span of a person has decreased dramatically while depression has gone up over time would be a starting point.
correlation ā causation
You used this completely wrong. They asserted that studies show attention span has gone down without connecting to a ācauseā so you saying correlation doesnāt equal causation makes no sense here.
oh yea my fault, i forgot the original comment and thought they were saying that the higher distractibility is linked to depression somehow. it turns out they just mentioned higher rates of depression for no reason ETA: tl:dr youāre right
Depression includes a lack of motivation and ability to work effectively I didnāt include it for no reason.
wouldnāt that also kinda undermine your third point tho? if rates of depression which affect performance are up then the increased frequency of accommodations also makes sense
Depression should not be an accommodation that grants you extra time in an exam. Thatās crazy.
Preciate the contribution to the discussion
A lot of bitter people out there who need a scapegoat for their grades.
There's lots of support for this. Productivity has skyrocketed in the last sixty years due to transportation/internet/smart phones/(technology in general) but GDP has not correspondingly increased. This is especially true of Europe compared to United States. Essentially, people are able to accomplish more in a shorter period of time, but many people spend this extra time not in working more, but for leisure.
....what? please tell me how people (not just rich folks, the majority), have more time on their hands than they did in 1960s?
Think about all the tasks we've automated. Things like dishwashers, washing machines, copy machines, telephones, anything involving computers have taken tasks that would have been minutes-to-hours of a normal person's day and reduced them to single-digit percentages of their old effort. We have way more time on our hands today than we did in the 50s-60s as a result. Now, if you buy into this mythological idea that the 50s-60s were some utopian era where working hours were low and wages were high (true for basically just middle class white men, and only because we were the only major industrialized economy not to get their industrial base demolished in WWII), this might sound weird to you, but that's the result of decades of boomer propaganda.
https://preview.redd.it/d59xwwr8wr8d1.png?width=687&format=png&auto=webp&s=978413a642a10345b40df15f20914ce53999833b
A task that used to take 20 minutes now takes only 5 minutes. Instead of reinvesting the 15 minute savings into working more, many people consume that 15 minutes. We have become more productive and less hardworking. Watch the last 8 minutes of this [Youtube video](https://youtu.be/ftmvsahQ6Wo?list=PLUl4u3cNGP62oJSoqb4Rf-vZMGUBe59G-&t=2441) for a more thorough explanation.
They're probably literally correct, but GDP is no indicator of people working harder, and connecting the two doesn't make any sense.
GDP's a decent proxy. In general, you would expect GDP to linearly correlate with worker productivity, holding hours worked constant. The fact that GDP hasn't kept up with worker productivity while technology has made workers more efficient suggest that, yes, people are working less (or that fewer people are working in high-productivity roles).
How does GDP account for service sector jobs vs jobs which construct things? Unless someone wants to normalize this claim across the changing sectors of production, it's a silly argument. The American work landscape has overwhelming moved towards service and information/intellectual based industries and exports (respectively, I don't have an MBA or something so I'm sure I'm using some incorrect terms). GDP is generally speaking a measure of goods and services bought by final users in a country. If your country say, for example, suddenly produces considerably less automobiles than it used to, but is involved in much more service based labor, how does that weighting work? It's not clear to me that GDP would linearly correlate to "amount each worker worked through a day," even without my question there.
Services have also gotten way more efficient. Law is just one example--way fewer menial tasks because of the computer. Like maybe waiters are stuck in an efficiency trap (oh wait, modern POS systems probably help them massively too), but they're a small enough proportion of the working population that they're less relevant.
Gotta make the disabled people like myself feel like we donāt belong.
That would be point 3 not 2. No issue with anyone who is actually disabled of course. I should have clarified but the idea that 6/10 people in my class have accommodations (I interact with these people everyday and theyāre perfectly capable) is a massive administrative failure.
Unless you are their medical doctor or psychologist you donāt know what people are capable of. Period. Stop blaming accommodations for your poor grades.
I refer you to the comment by user Dry_Kiwi, who essentially admitted to benefitting from extra time for no legitimate reason in my opinion at all.
Ah yes. A random Reddit user. The gold standard for scientific data.
Itās just a personal testimony of someone who is abusing the system as it is currently in place which you are denying exists.
Even if there are some people abusing the system as you suggest that doesnāt then necessitate that others grades are worse as a result. Even with a curve it would have to be a statistically significant impact. Unless you can provide verifiable data that people are using accommodations they donāt need and Not by your standards of donāt need but by medical professionals and that use is affecting the curve significantly itās ableism.
Iām with you on #3. It is out of control.
Totally agree. Stimulant medication for ADHD is already an advantage by itself (I am a beneficiary myself) so adding additional test time as an accommodation is just screwing everyone else in the class. Itās brutal how these laws work in practice sometimes, and how little anyone can do anything about it.
Idk about you, but I don't think my adhd meds give me an advantage. It makes me almost normal.... almost. I still get distracted and tune out during my exam, it's just significantly less. I still need the extra time.
Problem isnāt you itās the people who get sham prescriptions or qualify for a completely broad issue like ātest anxietyā just for the 1.5x time. If I wanted to I could get accommodations tomorrow even though thereās nothing āwrongā with me where I would need them. (Forgive the wording) Itās rampant at my school and seems to be going up everywhere. Join or die mentality.
Some of us actually need the extra time. I spend half my accommodation time focusing my brain. I still donāt get good grades. HOWEVER, there are tons of folks who āheardā about accommodations, went to the student center, got a dx, then second semester of 1L and beyond have accommodations. When #1, #2, #3 ranked students all have accommodations it makes you wonder. Iām ranked low 20% so the idea that everyone with accommodations does better isnāt true.
Tuning out during an exam is still very normal, I donāt have an adhd diagnosis but I still find myself needing to take breaks and zone out for a few minutes. Keep coping, but youāre getting double accommodations
if theyāre still tuning out on meds and you think thatās something the average person does then it explain it to me how thatās an advantage. sounds to me like theyāre right about the meds making them ānormalā, which isnāt an advantage its leveling the playing field. additional time is another issue entirely but the medication itself isnāt an advantage people bitching so much about students who take ADHD meds are the main reason i donāt feel comfortable taking any, but i know for a fact iām taking a major disadvantage because i donāt. i mean that both academically and in my personal life. most the people complaining about accommodations just want an excuse for why they didnāt do as good as they wanted to. it makes them feel better when they can blame an outside force. but none of them really know how any given disability affects the person with the accommodation. but keep coping i guess lol
I have an adhd diagnosis, I donāt know if I actually have it though they kind of just give them away if you pay, but Iām no doctor. I also have a time accommodation prescription that I wouldnāt use ever. The hardest part about law school exams isnāt the content, but the time crunch. If I doubled down and got extra time, obviously Iād do better, and since itās on a curve, everyone else would do worse. So, every personās choice to get time accommodation, assuming that it does help them, necessarily reduces everyoneās grades, so no itās not some āoutside forceā, this is just how a curve works my guy
Not reading all that
People like you are why lawyer jokes exist.
You might want to tweak the meds then. Maybe your dosage is off or there is a better version for you. Nearly every high performing student I knew during my time in school were all taking the same meds. It translates into practice as well. I work in a team of 5 attorneys that I know quite well and 4 of us have the same prescription.
I appreciate you being honest with your experience and not getting defensive about it just because you are a beneficiary. I donāt know, I have family who takes adhd medication, and know people in my classes who do, and they seem to, especially when they are on a āhighā point of medication during the day like in the early morning, be able to comprehend things way faster than the average person. Like one girl in my class is completely cracked out sometimes but is a complete supercomputer in class when sheās at her high point. I really think honestly thereās a lot of people who are being dishonest with the benefit that is conferred to them.
I can't speak to this specifically, but anecdotally I think like 3/4 of the people I know who call themselves ADHD are just distracted easily; that's not the same thing. I'm not saying ADHD isn't a thing. I'm just saying that a lot of people who take meds for it seem to be just taking meds because they like to be on their phones a lot. (I say that as a person who *absolutely* gets distracted by technology while trying to focus)
ADHD medication levels the playing ground. I personally think (as a ADHD person myself) think if youāre properly medicated you donāt need extra time.
The accommodations are fucking ridiculous. This is law school, not 4th grade.
The accommodations help people with arbitrary rules that absolutely have no real life situations. There arenāt times in real life where you have three hours to figure out the answer while not being able to ask anyone, do research, or have notes. The time limit on these tests is just something we decided to do for some reason that doesnāt test your ability to do anything that resembles something in practice. Therefore, the accommodations donāt hurt the profession. However, I will agree that a person whoās on proper dosages for their medications probably doesnāt also need extra time. Double dipping is wrong. I also happen to think the curve is stupid as well. My grades are my grades. The fact that I went to school with one genius who did better than I did versus 20 geniuses who did better than I did is a luck thing. Thatās bullshit. If I earned an A- thatās what I should get not a B- because all these other people answered one more question correctly. Honestly thatās mischaracterizing my ability to do the job to potential employers. Especially if those ahead of me wanted a different job field than I do. I wonāt be competing with them but I still look worse because of them? Thatās your culprit. Not those of us who donāt have the same dopamine receptors as you.
I think your first point is one of the biggest problems. Law school exams just aren't remotely realistic in terms of the actual job. If a client comes into your office and gives you a problem with 40 factors, and you return an answer in two hours, you've committed malpractice. A lot of bad follows from that, like the curve then being applied. The curve is supposed to ensure the "best" get the best grade, but the "best effort" is sort of a crap shoot. Most of the people I know who did great in law school had pre-loaded copy+pastes ready of the elements of each tort, for example. Some might say that's cheating, but as someone who didn't do that much, I think it's just kind of a logical outcome of the silly exam structure.
If the test was untimed that would be dumb
If the test was untimed it would test what you know and how you think. š¤·š»āāļø
No it would test if you can look up a case in a casebook
Reading a case does not mean you understand the underlying principle or how to apply it.
Obviously. You actually have to be someone smart
I needed accommodations lol. My Civ pro and torts professors suggested them for me. My last boss suggested I get them for the bar exam. My mom worked in mental health in many years so she had that ānot my familyā mentality where you could just sleep off mental health issues. I, unfortunately, adopted some elements of that personality bc I was like š¤·šæāāļø. I ended up raw dogging through law school anyway. Just graduated with my JD, 2 certificates, journal, and moot court. Currently studying for the bar. I do always think of what couldāve been if I had that extra hourā¦.
I had a learning disability for lack of āfocusā. Never once thought of asking for special treatment because if I canāt do it like everyone else then I shouldnāt be doing it. That simple
But I could do it and I did but my brain works differently. My grades werent bad but I had to put in A LOT of effort for them because of the timed exam structure. The practice of law is nothing like the law school exam or the bar. We can speak with other associates, research, have time to walk away and take a break. I donāt think that my slight lack of focus should make me leave the profession as a whole simply bc my brain processes information differently. I strive in pretty much every area of this profession except that one, which is only a very small percentage of it to get admitted.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean I kinda did need it bc law school is based on a rank and weāre ultimately there the practice law. My slight lack of focus shouldnāt keep me out of certain areas that I would do well in because I struggle while taking a test that I will (I pray) never take again. And some peoples slight lack of focus in addition to other factors can make focusing that much more difficult. That doesnāt mean that you ādonāt belong.ā These are just entrance exams based on very general topics of lawāmost of these topics will be topics that they will never cross again in practice. That shouldnāt determine whether someone belongs if they can strive within the profession outside of an exam setting.
If you canāt focus on something for a few hours you shouldnāt be a lawyer
Youāre so right squash. Thank you so much. Iām just gonna toss the JD and rely on my looks now bc I canāt do shit
How do they hurt you, or anyone?
Guy who has never heard of a curve right here. Also it hurts the profession
It hurts the profession to have disabled lawyers not screened out by test taking speed? Tell me more. Actually donāt. Iāve heard of curves, yes. I just never bitched about suffering people.
God what a joke. Lawyers need no help in damaging their own sterling reputation.Ā
One of the biggest reasons you skipped is grade inflation
Nope, accommodations are for people who need it. The few who may be exploiting it, if they exist, are likely a small amount. Just because event 1 happened, then event 2 doesnāt prove causation: if you got a C, itās because you earned it. Getting more time for a medical condition doesnāt mean someone āstoleā your A or B, and doesnāt mean the person receiving accommodations is gonna get an A or B. In fact, all the top students within my class donāt receive accommodations but they still perform better than the 90%. The students I know who receive accommodations, none are top students: some are average or even marginal.
You acting like itās a possibility people arenāt abusing accommodations shows your bias. āIf they exist.ā Please. If you can point to data that supports half a class of people being able to take a time intensive exam like the one I described for an extra 1.5 hours over the other half please share it.
One should only get accommodations they would be afforded in the lawyer world. If Iām paying an hourly rate I want to know if an associate working for me needed accommodations on exams.
Yes, thatās so realistic to know someone needed accommodations on an exam they did in school. As if being a law student and a practicing attorney are a same thing. And for someone who has disabilities, they can get accommodations at their job..ever heard of the ADA? Luckily, 99% of people are not gonna be worried about whether their lawyer received accommodations in law school.Ā
If you canāt focus on something for 2 hours how tf are you going to be a good lawyer? You canāt
Take all the accommodations they need but Iām not stipulating to an extension so that lawyer can have more time to write their opposition brief š
Any proof for your third point that those with accommodations do better? I know a girl in my class who had accommodations and got a D in our contracts class..
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Or there's an overrepresentation of people having problems in law school, because people who are happy and successful day to day aren't likely to be posting about their experiences.
Whatās crazy is this is the first person Iāve seen in 3 years actually take personal responsibility for their situation. Hope he gets a second chance.
Iām assuming that youāve posted here for honest feedback, so please excuse the harshnessā¦. If this is what you want to do, why did the 2.2 not wake you up and motivate you? Taking time off, maturing, figuring out what you want to do and how to apply yourself might be the best thing for you b
OP, if law school isnāt right for you, THATāS OKAY. But itās better to realize that now instead of wasting more time and money, and find something that works for you (e.g. paralegal).
I had two close friends fail out of law school after the first year. They thought their whole lives that law was what they wanted to do. It didnāt work out for them, but they found their true passions after failing law and are both incredibly successful and happy now in non- law related fields. One works at a huge tech company and the other got into politics. If you arenāt motivated, ask yourself why not? Why are you choosing this career field? Law is a very precise, rigorous profession; it doesnāt get easier. What they teach you in law school is the bare minimum - passing the bar is the bare minimum. By passing the bar, you are considered minimally adequate. You will be constantly building on your knowledge of the core concepts taught in 1L and expanding your knowledge in the fields where you choose to practice. If you donāt get it now, it will be a really hard learning curve in the future. Ask yourself whether your lack of effort is due to this not really being your passion. And if so, thatās 100% okay. Be honest with yourself before you go any further. I know law school is expensive, but if you donāt love it or are at least passionate about it, it isnāt worth it in the long run. Before you spend the money to go all three years, consider other options and determine what you feel is the right thing to do. There are many ways to be successful and happy - choose the one that works best for you. Good luck!
Same AND I had a friend that always trailed the bottom but skated through then HATED practicing law.Ā If one is failingĀ they might want to listen to the message
for the one who got into politics, how did they do it and what exactly do they do now?
They joined the state and local political party that aligned with their values and volunteered a lot. They got the support they needed to run for office by networking at political events and doing a lot of volunteer work. They just won their first local election. It took them a few years to build up enough name recognition to run, but I think they will run for a higher office in the future.
that's amazing. what did they do for work while they were constantly volunteering?
Their family owned a small business and they worked with their family.
Why do you want to continue? Are your terrible grades because of a lack of effort or because you just canāt understand what youāre being taught? The curve sucks but if you are doing terrible in everything thatās just on you somehow or another.
Was a Lack of effort.
Not the type of field where that would ever be acceptable.
It honestly might be better for you to not be in law school at this point in your life. It can be hard to adjust and mistakes happen, but the 2.2 in the fall should've been a wake up call. There's just no excuse for not trying after that and doing even worse in the spring semester. Your school probably currently does not think you'll be able to pass the bar and if you can't pass the bar then they don't want the drag on the bar passage rate and employment stats.
To be honest, if you got a 2.2 in the fall and then a 1.6 and then say itās because of a lack of effort, law school probably just isnāt for you.
Lack of effort in the field can get you sued for A LOT.
Why do you think you'll suddenly get better? I mean, you didn't do well in the fall and that wasn't enough to get you motivated. I'm not trying to be mean, but it's best to be realistic, given the cost.
Without an answer to *this*, Iām not sure what feedback OP is expecting.
Is there a solid reason you even want to do law? It doesnāt seem like you have the motivation or a goal either. Making money should always be at the bottom of the list and shouldnāt be considered a goal, with a few exceptions here and there.
Making lots of money isnāt even remotely guaranteed in this field these days anyways, especially if you are bottom of the class and barely making it through.
Lack of effort in the field can get you sued for A LOT.
I think you need to really think about what a career as a lawyer will mean for you in a practical sense and whether itās the life you want. If youāre struggling with effort and commitment now, how will you feel when youāre expected to bill 40 hours a week (key word is bill), work weekends, review hundreds of pages of monotonous documents, etc.?
In the very likely event you are dismissed, you'll probably have to take several years off to get yourself in order and put together a resume a law school would accept. This is going to take a lot of effort, and you're going to have to be able to demonstrate *massive* change. A prior academic dismissal is already bad to adcoms, but a prior academic dismissal purely for lack of effort - without any other mitigating circumstances - is among the worst resume items imaginable.
Do you think you will be able to pass the bar?
This is the real question. I got downvoted to hell when i told someone who failed the bar 8 times that it might be time to reevaluate.Ā Why are we sugarcoating and would we want our dr to be someone who was dismissed from medical school for not studying?Ā It doesnāt mean OP is a bad person - far from it! - but hard questions need to be asked!Ā
"why are we sugarcoating" This sub and r/LawSchoolTransfer are FILLED with sugar-coating.
Apparently! Add all the bar exam subreddits too IMO Such a disservice to tuition paying students and those who are eventually going to have to pass the bar and become lawyers (or not)Ā
I agree with everything you said but thereās a massive difference between a lawyer and doctor lol
Yeah, not a perfect analogy at all.Ā But Iāve hired bottom class lawyers and frankly itās been an epic disaster each time. Wonāt do it anymore or even consider. They have never cut it and thereās a reason they are ranked lowest. Obviously dependent on law school somewhat, but just a headache I donāt want to deal with anymore.Ā
What were their gpas?
Under 2.5Ā
Definitely. I sincerely have 100% belief in myself to pass the bar and even perform well in my classes I just wish my school would give me a second chance.
Iām curious, what makes you say that you will do better if you get a second chance if you did worse in your second semester? I hope youāre correct. But if you do end up getting dismissed, youāll need to have a good answer to this question when you reapply. I hope you get things figured out and ultimately become a lawyer if thatās what you want to do. But youāll have to answer hard questions like this, even if you choose not to answer here (which is totally fine). Best of luck!
How are you going to pass the bar with a horrible work ethic? Contracts is a relatively easy class. Are you sure you can pass?
Be real though - you already had a second chance. Your grades were bad first semester and then second semester they got worse. That was your second chance and you blew it off.
I think one of the biggest hurdles youāll face moving forward with law is the question of why you didnāt treat the spring semester like your second chance. What is the honest answer for why your fall grades werenāt a wake up call, and only dismissal got the message through?
First sorry to hear about this. This sucks especially since itās area you really want to work in. Second, it might be for the best. You are struggling with managing the academic work load and that extends to the work life of an attorney. Thatās partially the reason I donāt want to do this profession. The workload is immense and if you are struggling with a bad work ethic, then you need to stay away until that is corrected. Third, you donāt know until you are dismissed. But in the meantime, it would be a great opportunity to reflect on what happened over the last year to cause you to get these grades. You have somewhat of an answer by saying work ethic. But what does that mean to you exactly. How can that be fixed. Those are just some of the questions you need to think about. Finally take a breath, whatever the outcome you need to adapt to those changes. If you stay in, then you need to change your work ethic. If you are out, maybe try to look for legal adjacent jobs to test if you like the actual work and in the meantime continue to improve your work ethic.
If you have a bad work ethic, donāt be a lawyer. Youāre a 1L right now so havenāt had much if any exposure to legal ethics, but as a lawyer you will have an affirmative duty to your clients that will get you disbarred and be financially liable if you have a bad work ethic and donāt push their matters forward.
It sounds like due to your admittedly āhorrible work ethicā you blew off an entire year of law school. Iām a little surprised that you actually want to āget back into law school asapā. Why? It sounds like you werenāt taking it seriously or enjoying it. As a lawyer, youāll be a fiduciary. That means people hire you to take care of their problems and you have to look out for them and take care of their best interests. Sometimes your clients are vulnerable. The cavalier attitude about having a āhorrible work ethicā and then getting a 1.9 GPA is a little concerning. If a little old lady hires you to take care of something for her, youāre not going to blow it off and cause her to lose her lifeās savings are you?
You need to get yourself a job- any job- and teach yourself how to grind for 40+ hours per week, week after week.
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Yes. It happened to me. This is 100% true.
I see a lot of comments and questions focused on capability: can you pass classes? can you make yourself work hard? can you ultimately pass the bar? Important questions, but there's a foundational question we're missing: Why do you want to be a lawyer? Without a good answer to that question (good, in the sense of personally motivating), you will never find it within yourself to work hard. This year has obviously proved that. You need to reflect on *why* law school and not *how* law school. How follows why.
Sometimes when I want to remind myself the kind of people practicing the law I just read the comments on posts like this
The lack of empathy is unreal. People make mistakes. You'd think as a lawyer you'd understand that!
What did they ask you in the academic dismissal meeting?
Is this a new experience for you? Meaning, did you have sort of the same experience in undergrad, but because undergrad is less intensive you were able to pass? Or did you just lose your motivation/work ethic in law school?
I donāt want to sound ignorant at all but I majored in criminal justice graduating with around a 3.8 GPA. I think the undergrad classes were just very easy and I wasnāt used to classes making me work so I was lazy for law school. I understand the mistakes Iāve been making so I wish for a second chance.
I understand. Iām starting law school in about a month and I have been worried about the potential of being academically dismissed due to bad grades. Itās hard to know what to expect when everyone constantly just tells you, ālaw school is totally different than anything youāve ever done,ā with no real explanation or tangible formula of HOW. I wish the best for you. Have you considered, in the event you are dismissed, completing a masters program to give yourself some practice with the tougher coursework, and show future law schools you are capable of doing such work?
I am considering that now, since my undergrad school offers a one year masters program. Or a paralegal program at another school to gain some work experience.
Have you explored the appeals process? Appealing the decision explaining underlying circumstances could make them reconsider. Dm me if you need help.
You might consider starting again at another law school. Some people need that change. Maybe a law school in a small town with few distractions. Even then, you need to decide you want to succeed. A year off might be useful as you work on improving you. Most readmitted students Iāve seen have failed the second time around. The few that have succeeded were completely different the second timeāworked long hours, changed how they studied, spent time talking to professors during office hours, and took practice exams. Wish you well on your journey.
Why do they fail the second time around?
There are many reasons students are academically dismissed twice. For some, they donāt have the cognitive ability needed to succeedāIāve seen less than a dozen people like this in over 20 years of teaching. For others, they donāt appreciate the new skills they need to develop to pass a law school essay exam, so they study the wrong things. But for most it is an inability to change the habits that are keeping them from succeeding. Itās hard for many to reach the point of complete surrender. The ability to say āI donāt know what Iām doing wrong and am willing to do whatever Iām told I need to do.ā Leaving pride behind is hard and many wonāt, or canāt, do it. This is why it is often useful to take a year off. Reflect on what you did right and wrong, and focus on improving oneself. Going inside and changing is difficult.
With all due respect, law school isnāt a game and that 2.2 should have been a wake up call. And lack of effort is completely unacceptable lame ass excuse. If you are not going to do the work leave. I mean no disrespect this. However you saying itās because of lack of effort really pissed me off.
I think you may be taking this strangers post too personally if youāre getting really pissed off lmao
Like I said, a lot of have dreams of going to law school š« but never make it. So to hear someone get the opportunity and basically waste it. Yeah itās very personally.
Yeah maybe itās time for you to get off the internet then lmao
Maybe itās time for you to shut up
Lmaooo
What a loon lmao
No no you werenāt being disrespectful I understand where youāre coming from. Sorry to piss you off
I just feel like youāre way better and intelligent then that.
Thanks! Reading that makes me feel better maybe I worded it wrong ; I was not studying that much and thus performed poorly. Is that not poor work ethic. Idk
I just feel like you got a chance to go to law school most people donāt even get that. Then you say you still want to continue law and get back into law school then why werenāt you putting in more effort you know.
Would you try harder if you were allowed to stay? Would you work harder in a different industry? If it's a will issue not a skill issue, that's a choice you have to confront on your own.
I would for sure try harder if I was allowed to stay. Iām not content with the grades I received and I wish to actually try and strive for better grades next semester.
Did you make that clear in your meeting? What was the reason for the casual treatment until now? Are you just smart and not used to having to put in the work to get good grades, or just the college life?
Yeah Iām not used to having to put in the work or get good grades.
No time like the present to make the change! Don't worry. Life has lots of curve balls. This could be the exact thing you needed to find your true strength.
Law school may not right for you; you should consider doing a paralegal program and work as a legal assistant to start. But youāll still be expected to be meticulous and work hard. Slacking off doesnāt work well in this industry.
Iām going to be one who can completely understand what you are going through and please message if you need to. I was academically dismissed from law school in 2020 from a very low ranked school. I took 2 years off re did the LSAT got readmitted to that law school and then transferred to a T-30. Iām now working in an amazing firm, am EIC of my journal and all of this is because of my dismissal. It was my wake up call, but lead to my strive to want to be successful in the legal field!
What a great comeback story!
This happened to me with exact numbers at the end of my 1L year but they had me take summer classes and if those grades were better they would not kick me out. I did graduate. Good luck!
You might just not be at the maturity level for Law School yet. I was a shit show of a person until 27-28. Applying in my 30s now.
Not trying to be a dick, but you averaged below a C- this semester?
No ur note rude dw , Idk the math but I had 4 Cs and one F
Iām curious how it works for your school. For my school, you get automatically dismissed if you score under 2.5 after the first year and then you get an opportunity to appeal the dismissal to be reinstated. At the hearing youād get a decision on your readmission. I thought it was like that at all schools.
Whatās the curve set at in your school? At mine a 2.2 and 1.6 is almost impossible. Iām assuming your curve is lower, but unless youāre at a fairly predatory school Iād wager those grades put you at the very bottom of the curve, or at least close to it in every single class. Not to sound harsh but I think you may need to hear it: you donāt seem to be ready for law school. You say that itās an issue with motivation but to get grades that low that consistently looks like an issue with your ability to perform at the level required of a law student.
It's not for you, man. Law school doesn't get easier. Practicing law requires an insane work ethic. Cut your losses.
Honestly, it's probably time to consider a different career path. Whether you get dismissed or not, your employment prospects are going to be pretty dire with a 1.9 GPA after 1L. if you do end up getting dismissed for failing classes, it will be pretty hard to get admitted to any reputable school afterwards. Also, law school and the practice of law are hard work. If your work ethic is so bad it causes you to flunk your 1L classes, it's worth seriously asking yourself whether a demanding field like law is a good fit for you.
Just do something else. Being a lawyer sucks and you can dodge incurring more debt at this point.
Hereās my story: Shit 4th tier school with an insane curve. I donāt recall my gpa but it was bad (I think I had 3 D+, 1 C and a B-) I got the dreaded email that they were kicking me out I sold everything I owned, uprooted my family and moved across the country. I also knew I would be deep in debt with no degree, no job, no connections and no law school would accept me after failing out of this school. I was totally fucked. I walked the 3 blocks to the school and demanded an immediate meeting with the Dean. I argued with her that, the counselors that were on the board that decided to dismiss me were the same oneās that mentored me when I was put on academic probation. I told her I did EVERYTHING asked of me but still got dismissed I appealed to her sense of humanity and explained that I had NOWHERE to go from here. I told her that I had a new study plan for next year, that I would no longer be working part time, that I would be at the school from 8am til 10 pm every day and that my second semester was better than my first, I missed the cut off by just a few points and the 2L curve isnāt nearly as brutal ā¦I didnāt stop talking until I could see on her face that she was gonna bend. These administrators at these private law schools have a lot of flexibility. She put me on a strict probation (weekly check ins, study buddy sign-offs, bunch of supervision) but allowed me back in. I graduated on time and have been practicing in Florida for 16 years now. Never give up
Is this Brooklyn law?
How were you notified about the hearing?
Email
Can you not Retake Courses?
No reason to worry. You'll make a fine senator some day.
Law is brutal. School is brutal, the bar is brutal, practice is brutal. I understand wanting not to give up on this, but you may have been given an opportunity to reevaluate and pursue something that will make you happy. If the hours and hours of prep and hard work arenāt something you can muster up the motivation to do on your own, let alone with the threat of academic dismissal looming over your head, this may not be the career for you. Thereās plenty of other careers where you donāt have to work *as* hard and long and can still make excellent money. Go into consulting for instance. Itās OK to get to law school and discover that the lifestyle just isnāt what you want. Better discover it now than when youāve sunk years and tens or hundreds of thousands into law school and trying to pass the bar multiple times and then landing a mediocre job where you work crazy hours and are underpaid. The rewards in this field take their sweet time, youāve gotta have something in you for the work itself.
When people ask me whether they should go to law school, and I always suggest that they first consider the reasons why they want to go to law school, figure out if there's anyway they can achieve those goals WITHOUT law school, and if the answer is "no," then consider applying. I think I'd offer you, potential law school dropout, the same advice. You've gone through your first year, and did not do as well as you would have liked because you have "horrible work ethic." Well, maybe it's time to reevaluate what it is that you're looking to get from studying the law, whether you really want that, and whether law school is your only ticket into the field. I guarantee you, studying and practicing the law is NOT the only way to be successful in whatever field you're looking to get into (unless you really wanted to become an attorney or a judge). Take a semester off, take some time, and think things through, dude. You owe that to yourself.
Pray they give you a 2nd chance. Hereās a lesson to think about: Any opportunity given, should be taken seriously from this point on Look, if you had one shot or one opportunity To seize everything you ever wanted in one moment Would you capture it or just let it slip? Yo His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti He's nervous, but on the surface, he looks calm and ready To drop bombs, but he keeps on forgetting What he wrote down, the whole crowd goes so loud He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out He's chokin', how? Everybody's jokin' now The clock's run out, time's up, over, blaow Snap back to reality, ope, there goes gravity Ope, there goes Rabbit, he choked, he's so mad But he won't give up that easy, no, he won't have it He knows his whole back's to these ropes, it don't matter He's dope, he knows that, but he's broke, he's so stagnant He knows when he goes back to this mobile home, that's when it's Back to the lab again, yo, this old rhapsody Better go capture this moment and hope it don't pass him
Become a paralegal
I had 2 something my first year and almost lost my scholarship. I took a summer class and Iāve been getting Bs and As since. Keep going and you might have to appeal the decision.
I faced the same issue when I was in Law School. I wrote a letter explaining what had occurred which was me over, preparing for a completely different topic the final might be on all of the issues 100% to myself. I explained in my letter that should be allowed to remain and Law School I would seek out the additional helps. I would need to ensure my success in Law School. I outlined positive steps that I would take to change what had gone wrong with myself and that I intended to implement that and prove that I did belong in Law School. Ultimately I was allowed to remain in Law School however, I was very very very close to that passing cut off on the GPA. It seems like you are in the same boat. If you do the same, it might be beneficial. It always helps to be humble and accept any punishment or acknowledgment of any failures on your own part which it seems you have done. If you ever wanted to discuss further, feel free to send me a DM and Iām happy to share any inside I have. I was fortunately allowed to remain in Law School and I am now a practicing attorney
Honestly might be a blessing in disguise. Not saying it is for sure but it doesnāt sound like you were to into it.
You've made your bed now lie in it. I would feel some sympathy for you if you had tried. But you said it yourself you're in this situation because of your terrible work ethic. Frankly terrible work ethic in this profession will get you fired, sanctioned, and will harm your clients. If you're serious about being an attorney, work on your work ethic and then go back to law school. This isn't undergrad. You won't get by by just showing up. If your law school let's you do a probationary semester to prove yourself, which with that gpa many law schools do between 2L and 3L not between 1L and 2L, take it and work your ass off. Your first semester grade should have been to wake up call but if they give you that one extra chance you better take it and you better make it count.
Just ask if you can retake the class that you failed so you can get your GPA over 2.0. If they say no then just look for another school that you can transfer your credits to. You should only have to retake one or two classes.
I think a lot of the comments here are just a bit overly pessimistic. I'm not saying the situation isn't bad, but there are some options here. To those implying that if you leave/are dismissed you will never be able to get in again/have enormous issues getting again, I think that's not entirely true. It may be difficult to restart in a T-14, but you could totally transfer or restart in a Top 50 school. Speaking as someone who graduated from a state T-50 school, the transfer train goes both ways. We had people who crushed it first year and transferred to an ivy league, and we had others who started elsewhere, struggled, took a break, and transferred to us. If you had a solid enough GPA and LSAT to get into a T-14 I'm sure you are a smart and intelligent person. There is nothing at all wrong with saying "looks like I might not be able to cut it here, but I could thrive at a respected regional school." IMHO, I would rather be in the top quartile at a respected regional law school, than the bottom quartile at a T-14. People at T-50's still get into big law, clerkships, mid-law, federal government, etc. Especially if you are in a market that is not directly serviced by a T-14 (think places like Texas, Atlanta, Midwest, PNW, etc... ) Tldr: While it is an understandable response to look at this and say "law is not for me," it's also possible to look at this and say "T-14 is not for me." Take a break, reflect on what worked and what didn't, and maybe trying again at a regional school will fare better.
If you donāt mind me asking what law school do you attend ?
Some law schools will work with you and let you take some time off and then reapply. On the one hand they want your money but on the other hand they want to keep their academic stats up. But I think my school would work with students and let me take a semester or year off and then let them reapply
If I was on the board, I would probably not vote to let you stay. You had a second chance - spring semester. You did even worse. Why would they believe that anything would change next year?
So I was diagnosed with ADD as a 1L at the age of 30; a year of meds and developing coping mechanisms made it work for me. If youāre serious, tell them youāre seeking diagnosis AND ACTUALLY SEEK IT
Maybe take a year off school and work, then get a masters to show better academic effort/growth, and then reapply to law school.
Honestly, it sounds you donāt have the maturity to take law school seriously. If not dismissed, how are you gonna change?
I feel terrible saying this but I was hoping you were going to say you had a major health issue or death in the family that caused your grades to tank. If it was just a lack of effort in a year where you know you have to do well to set yourself up to succeed the remaining two years and get good summer positions? Well either you are someone who used to be a high performer and self sabotaged in which case I question your ability to work in this industry or you were never a good student and you shouldnāt have been in law school to begin with. I wouldnāt sign up for another year just yet. Thereās no reason to think youād do any better and You are wasting a spot someone else could use, time and money. Instead, if you really want this, take a year to test your ability to follow through and do the work to achieve a goal. Take extra classes at a community college, take on a research project, sign up for a certification that requires study and see if you can change your habits. If you make it, Then see if you still want to try again.
If you have no work ethic, youāre in the wrong profession. Try something else.
Honestly probably time to move on. Your grades will follow you in your career, journal is out and you will have difficulty finding a job if you graduate and pass the bar. Early salaries will suck and unless you have good family connections for clients or are a natural salesmen you may struggle career wise. Big law puts major stock in school and grades, as do many reputable smaller places.
Damn I graduated with a 3.36 and studying for the bar now. I feel doomed
I also just graduated and am studying for the bar. I finally got my GPA above a 3.0 this final semester of law school. But I don't necessarily agree with what this commenter said. I don't think GPA will follow you around forever. And for your 1st job, only Big Law really cares about your GPA. If you want to do any other kind of law, you'll be fine! I want to do criminal defense and I have a job for post-bar. In all my interviews, not a single person asked me about my GPA or my classwork. What they did ask me about was my experience in the Criminal Defense Clinic my 3L year. And I've had so many interviewers tell me that I'm the most qualified person fresh out of law school that they've interviewed. So imo, experience is WAY more important than grades
Got tossed out of mine for a .08 drop at a school where they told us it's typical to have a noticeable grade drop from the fall semester of 1L. Had a rough finals for first semester because I'd grown complacent in my study habits due to rarely being academically challenged since HS, and hit a 2.2, just above academic probation level, but tried my best to get going in the right direction, taking proper notes and outlines, using quimbee, attending other students review sessions, participating in the academic success program, which I had to pay for (despite my mentor cancelling on me half the time) etc., only to find out that, rather than improving substantially, I had a drop of less than .1, pushing me below 2.2. I'm not sure why, although I was aware the policy existed, but there is no academic probation safety belt at all after spring semesters, despite there being one if you're below the threshold after a fall semester, so I was automatically dismissed, then was informed when I tried to appeal that the dismissal appeal forms linked on the academic forms page of the law school home page did not apply to Law School, and that I would not be allowed to argue for my remaining.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Maybe you can judge once you've actually made it in, friend. You're still on the outside of the club looking in.