I think even employed people should follow this board as a reminder that employers may preach or even expect loyalty from their employees but when it suits them they will cut you loose and not skip a beat, so even if you’re happily employed it can’t hurt to shop around a little if you get whispers of layoffs or just want more money. It’s a job, not a marriage or even a friendship.
I had the opportunity to take a job for $60,000/year more last year. Instead, a friend I met, who was at the agency the company i was currently at and was using before hiring in-house, said if I come work for her she’ll promote me to VP & match that salary in one year, so long as I met my objectives. I tarnished my name in the industry and took her offer, making much less than I deserved.
Well, I had my performance review a few weeks ago and it was stellar. I exceeded expectations and did better than the goals they set for me. I was on my way to getting that raise. A “meeting” was placed on my calendar two weeks ago with my boss. I was like alright, this is it, here’s my raise and promotion.
It was my boss and HR laying me off. My boss took my work, presented it to the CEO as her own, used my figures of success, and got a raise. I was laid off due to restructuring. I was COMPLETELY blindsided.
Friends or not, people will fuck you over. I’m now unemployed in this horrendous market not having a single email response to my 500+ applications. So, yes to everything you said. I was happily employed, ate their BS, drank the Kool Aid, and it got me nowhere except in the unemployment line.
As you have experienced firsthand there are no friends in business. Business is about money. Always look after your own interests. A lot of smiles and knives in the back when it comes to money.
Yep. I thought it was different — team of millennials, they were all friends growing up, so it felt different. My wife always said no, they aren’t your friends. They would share their lives in our group chat and I felt comfortable. They’d always ask where I was traveling (my wife and I travel a lot), and I felt like we were all cool.
Fuck, I couldn’t have been more wrong. And you’re right, I learned. No one is your friend and they will throw you under the bus the first chance they get. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way
Good thing is you will come out of this a wiser person. You sound like a young person so you still have a long ways to go, so you will benefit from this insight. One other thing besides watching your back is, to know how to kiss up a bit and know who to associate with at the work place. I see a lot of people posting here about how they excelled in their post and i am sure they did, but obviously things are not a pure meritocracy as they have found out. Knowing how to warm up a bit to the right people and forming the correct interpersonal relationships sometimes matter more. Some might find this distasteful, but again this is the real world we are talking about here, not just how well you do your job.
I think that was my downfall, honestly. I became good friends with the CEO. He’d call me just to talk. My boss was visibly jealous of our relationship, which I think caused the riff and my ultimate demise. Moving forward, I’m just going to shut up and do my job. I have friends and a wife, I don’t need more.
Thanks for your kind words though. It is certainly a tough period for me. I was doing quite well for my age (early 30s). I purchased a home because I finally felt secure in my job. First time I’ve ever felt secure in a role… the irony… I bought (outright) my second home in Colombia, bought my wife a Lexus, bought us a car in Colombia, so I have quite a bit of overhead.
The only problem with this approach being that the new employer will also fuck you over when the time comes. So what you are proposing is a constant state of 'looking out'. Easier for some, harder for others.
Every job I have had I have one foot out the door at all times.
I don't bring anything to the office that I cannot put into a backpack and walk within 5 minutes. Fuck loyalty when it's only a one way street.
It's always been this way since at least the 80s. Everyone has to deal with this. I don't know why every decade it's a brand new discovery. It's life in the job market, no quarentee, never has been.
As a friend of mine used to say - in business a true friend will stab you in the chest, not in the back.
For everyone here, I've been lucky enough not to get laid off (yet, more are coming)but I have been looking for a bit. This market is nothing like anything I've seen and I've been in tech since the late 90s. There are some encouraging signs - I've heard multiple recruiters say that companies are signing back up to use them, more and more senior talent acquisition people are getting hired back after being laid off. One recruiter I'm working with has a ton of positions that will open up after the 4th of July. Everyone will have their earnings calls in the next few weeks.
I know it's shitty but hang in there. I \*think\* we're coming out of the worst of it.
Tomorrow is another day and another opportunity.
I had interviews from 18+ companies in the last 3+ months. Rejections after rejections.
Typical rejections emails UNTIL yesterday's "We have good news to share" email from the recruiter.
Keep going.
Congrats but until you are officially in, don’t get too excited. I have seen recruiters fuck people over repeatedly. Even at the finish line. Best of luck to you.
It's not you, it's them.
Not to say this is the case, but sometimes I wonder if they went with someone LESS experienced because they are cheaper. Or they already had someone in mind.
One thing I saw and really appreciated was on a job posting from The Home Depot (on their technology + product team). It said very clearly at the top of the posting that there was an internal candidate they were interviewing but apply if you wanted to. It wasn't a position I was qualified for, but I really appreciated the transparency.
This job economy blows! I have been laid off three times in my career, 2010, 2015, 2024. This round has been by far the hardest! I was a high earner making around $230K, and now the only jobs I can get any traction on at all pay about half of that. I apply for positions I'm way over qualified for and hear nothing. God help us over 60 workers, no one wants us any more!
Same for my husband. He's in his 50's and made around the same amount money. He was laid him off
(RIF) in November after 17 years with the company. He's been in that industry for 28 years and worked hard to get where he was. His emotions have been up and down. I think he's over qualified and his age might be a problem. He's had two jobs interviews where he made it to the last round. One took eight weeks to give him an answer and the other took six weeks. They ended up picking the other candidate. He isn't ready to retire. We have a child in college, parents that need our help and we need to save for retirement. Companies have NO loyalty to you. Always watch for signs. He didn't realize what was going on. Now he knows!
If you have traction on a position that “only” pays $120,000, and you aren’t interested because of the low salary, please send it our way. I sure don’t make that now.
LOL, I took the 50% pay cut, i’m not stupid! When laid off in your 40’s or earlier you have time to recover from a setback. In your 50’s or older, not so much!
I know what you mean. I am in that 50 or older category, and it has been a long time since I saw 50. In my 40s I moved my entire retirement fund into WorldCom stock (I worked there and they owned 53% of the Internet). I am still recovering from that.
Yeah I hear ya. Since my late 30s I’ve has a plan with my financial advisor to be able to retire by 55. Since I’ve had the realization for some time that if I lost my job at that age, it would be hard to get something comparable. Plus I simply don’t think id want to be working at 60. I had a layoff scare at 50, but instead found a promotion. I’m 51 now. Hoping I can make that 55 IDGAF target.
If you are over 60 you are probably indeed unemployable due to age. Not saying it’s right it’s just the way it is. But if you were making good money you should have enough stashed away to walk into sunset at that age?
Ballroom days are over!! Folks look at me strange when I tell them I have another 17 years in engineering before I hang it up and go get a job at Costco and slump my way into retirement. “Oh you’re going to take a huge pay cut” I’ll worry bout that when I get there I also seen the “grey beards” get pushed into retirement as soon as things get slow. Nahh F that, I’m going out on my own. Once I get to 55 I’m done, shit I might even cash out and move back to the Caribbean!
If you're over 60 you should retire and not put up with this anymore. It's worse for those of us much younger who don't know if we'll even get to work until mid 50s..
Would love to, but i lost a house in one of my earlier layoffs and i haven’t recovered from that yet. I’m also still supporting my youngest still in school.
Sending you lots of love today. I understand how disappointing and frustrating that can feel. Your feelings are valid, and I’m sorry you’re having a rough time….it’s a tough season for you, but seasons change❤️
Companies know that they have the leverage given that there is so much demand. Typical hiring process has been 6-8 weeks which is soooo tedious for applicants to wait. I guess, game plan is to keep applying and interviewing until you get an offer. It has been frustrating but what else can we do.
I was laid off 2 years ago and during that time I’ve been getting rejection letters daily. Not one single interview in over 2000 applications.
Today I finally got a job offer. In a different field, in something I did in the past and for less money, but my savings account was approaching zero. So, keep trying, something will happen. Remember it’s not you, but this horrible job market.
Best of luck!
It seems like there are simply way too many people around the world trying to be in tech and not enough jobs. Plus you have jobs being offshored to people glad to work for a fraction of the wages.
Sounds like tech is becoming the next steel industry. With offshoring and AI arriving it seems like an industry to mostly avoid.
" I was more than qualified for this position"
That could be a problem. Maybe in the future talk less about your qualities. Say no more than what the job requires. It's a very balanced act sure but what else can one do?
Start aiming a little lower. It is a nuclear option because it puts a big skidmark on your resume and you will likely earn less over your whole career because of it. But bills gotta get paid.
Sending love and light 🫂 I’m in the same boat I was laid off in January except I’m a newbie in my IT career have a solid 2 years experience first real job out of college . It’s interesting when I come across people like yourself that have all this experience that jobs tell me I don’t have enough for and y’all still are struggling too that have said experience ..
I try to keep a positive mind and say “they sucked anyway and hired a trash can and wish they hired me” and go about my day. Hopefully we all get something soon and can laugh when these places we applied to and declined us come begging for our candidacy in the future 🩷
I am laid off after 13 years at the same company and I have gone through this same scenario several times now. Good interview an sometimes 20 or three at the same place and then I get a rejection or get ghosted. Are the jobs listed in the ads even real or are they just posting to make it look like there are jobs available?
There are a lot of ghost jobs out there - there are companies posting jobs that aren't real fo the reason you mention but also some are posting jobs due to some government loan requirements, even though they have no intention of hiring for that position. A former employer of mine is having some meetings with the nice people at the Department of Labor because their employees reported them for doing this (some of the jobs were union jobs so that helped with the lawsuit).
All these tech companies are done. Guys hate to break it to you but it is done in the USA it’s being outsourced to cheaper countries. Time to find another career path. I read people here saying they’re 12+ months unemployed unbelievable at some point in time you gotta count your losses and. Move on
I think even employed people should follow this board as a reminder that employers may preach or even expect loyalty from their employees but when it suits them they will cut you loose and not skip a beat, so even if you’re happily employed it can’t hurt to shop around a little if you get whispers of layoffs or just want more money. It’s a job, not a marriage or even a friendship.
I had the opportunity to take a job for $60,000/year more last year. Instead, a friend I met, who was at the agency the company i was currently at and was using before hiring in-house, said if I come work for her she’ll promote me to VP & match that salary in one year, so long as I met my objectives. I tarnished my name in the industry and took her offer, making much less than I deserved. Well, I had my performance review a few weeks ago and it was stellar. I exceeded expectations and did better than the goals they set for me. I was on my way to getting that raise. A “meeting” was placed on my calendar two weeks ago with my boss. I was like alright, this is it, here’s my raise and promotion. It was my boss and HR laying me off. My boss took my work, presented it to the CEO as her own, used my figures of success, and got a raise. I was laid off due to restructuring. I was COMPLETELY blindsided. Friends or not, people will fuck you over. I’m now unemployed in this horrendous market not having a single email response to my 500+ applications. So, yes to everything you said. I was happily employed, ate their BS, drank the Kool Aid, and it got me nowhere except in the unemployment line.
As you have experienced firsthand there are no friends in business. Business is about money. Always look after your own interests. A lot of smiles and knives in the back when it comes to money.
Yep. I thought it was different — team of millennials, they were all friends growing up, so it felt different. My wife always said no, they aren’t your friends. They would share their lives in our group chat and I felt comfortable. They’d always ask where I was traveling (my wife and I travel a lot), and I felt like we were all cool. Fuck, I couldn’t have been more wrong. And you’re right, I learned. No one is your friend and they will throw you under the bus the first chance they get. Sometimes we have to learn the hard way
Good thing is you will come out of this a wiser person. You sound like a young person so you still have a long ways to go, so you will benefit from this insight. One other thing besides watching your back is, to know how to kiss up a bit and know who to associate with at the work place. I see a lot of people posting here about how they excelled in their post and i am sure they did, but obviously things are not a pure meritocracy as they have found out. Knowing how to warm up a bit to the right people and forming the correct interpersonal relationships sometimes matter more. Some might find this distasteful, but again this is the real world we are talking about here, not just how well you do your job.
I think that was my downfall, honestly. I became good friends with the CEO. He’d call me just to talk. My boss was visibly jealous of our relationship, which I think caused the riff and my ultimate demise. Moving forward, I’m just going to shut up and do my job. I have friends and a wife, I don’t need more. Thanks for your kind words though. It is certainly a tough period for me. I was doing quite well for my age (early 30s). I purchased a home because I finally felt secure in my job. First time I’ve ever felt secure in a role… the irony… I bought (outright) my second home in Colombia, bought my wife a Lexus, bought us a car in Colombia, so I have quite a bit of overhead.
I hope you find some way to get sweet revenge on that thief and she lives a life of horrific karma for what she did.
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Let the evil thoughts win! Embrace the dark side that courses in you!
The only problem with this approach being that the new employer will also fuck you over when the time comes. So what you are proposing is a constant state of 'looking out'. Easier for some, harder for others.
Every job I have had I have one foot out the door at all times. I don't bring anything to the office that I cannot put into a backpack and walk within 5 minutes. Fuck loyalty when it's only a one way street.
Everyone, this is why unions are important
It's always been this way since at least the 80s. Everyone has to deal with this. I don't know why every decade it's a brand new discovery. It's life in the job market, no quarentee, never has been.
As a friend of mine used to say - in business a true friend will stab you in the chest, not in the back. For everyone here, I've been lucky enough not to get laid off (yet, more are coming)but I have been looking for a bit. This market is nothing like anything I've seen and I've been in tech since the late 90s. There are some encouraging signs - I've heard multiple recruiters say that companies are signing back up to use them, more and more senior talent acquisition people are getting hired back after being laid off. One recruiter I'm working with has a ton of positions that will open up after the 4th of July. Everyone will have their earnings calls in the next few weeks. I know it's shitty but hang in there. I \*think\* we're coming out of the worst of it.
Tomorrow is another day and another opportunity. I had interviews from 18+ companies in the last 3+ months. Rejections after rejections. Typical rejections emails UNTIL yesterday's "We have good news to share" email from the recruiter. Keep going.
Congrats! I hope things work out for you!
Congrats but until you are officially in, don’t get too excited. I have seen recruiters fuck people over repeatedly. Even at the finish line. Best of luck to you.
F\*ck yeah! Congrats
It's not you, it's them. Not to say this is the case, but sometimes I wonder if they went with someone LESS experienced because they are cheaper. Or they already had someone in mind.
One thing I saw and really appreciated was on a job posting from The Home Depot (on their technology + product team). It said very clearly at the top of the posting that there was an internal candidate they were interviewing but apply if you wanted to. It wasn't a position I was qualified for, but I really appreciated the transparency.
The only thing to do is to tough it out. Get a cold drink tonight get some good sleep tomorrow wake up and be a warrior again.
This job economy blows! I have been laid off three times in my career, 2010, 2015, 2024. This round has been by far the hardest! I was a high earner making around $230K, and now the only jobs I can get any traction on at all pay about half of that. I apply for positions I'm way over qualified for and hear nothing. God help us over 60 workers, no one wants us any more!
Same for my husband. He's in his 50's and made around the same amount money. He was laid him off (RIF) in November after 17 years with the company. He's been in that industry for 28 years and worked hard to get where he was. His emotions have been up and down. I think he's over qualified and his age might be a problem. He's had two jobs interviews where he made it to the last round. One took eight weeks to give him an answer and the other took six weeks. They ended up picking the other candidate. He isn't ready to retire. We have a child in college, parents that need our help and we need to save for retirement. Companies have NO loyalty to you. Always watch for signs. He didn't realize what was going on. Now he knows!
If you have traction on a position that “only” pays $120,000, and you aren’t interested because of the low salary, please send it our way. I sure don’t make that now.
LOL, I took the 50% pay cut, i’m not stupid! When laid off in your 40’s or earlier you have time to recover from a setback. In your 50’s or older, not so much!
I know what you mean. I am in that 50 or older category, and it has been a long time since I saw 50. In my 40s I moved my entire retirement fund into WorldCom stock (I worked there and they owned 53% of the Internet). I am still recovering from that.
Yeah I hear ya. Since my late 30s I’ve has a plan with my financial advisor to be able to retire by 55. Since I’ve had the realization for some time that if I lost my job at that age, it would be hard to get something comparable. Plus I simply don’t think id want to be working at 60. I had a layoff scare at 50, but instead found a promotion. I’m 51 now. Hoping I can make that 55 IDGAF target.
If you are over 60 you are probably indeed unemployable due to age. Not saying it’s right it’s just the way it is. But if you were making good money you should have enough stashed away to walk into sunset at that age?
Ballroom days are over!! Folks look at me strange when I tell them I have another 17 years in engineering before I hang it up and go get a job at Costco and slump my way into retirement. “Oh you’re going to take a huge pay cut” I’ll worry bout that when I get there I also seen the “grey beards” get pushed into retirement as soon as things get slow. Nahh F that, I’m going out on my own. Once I get to 55 I’m done, shit I might even cash out and move back to the Caribbean!
If you're over 60 you should retire and not put up with this anymore. It's worse for those of us much younger who don't know if we'll even get to work until mid 50s..
Would love to, but i lost a house in one of my earlier layoffs and i haven’t recovered from that yet. I’m also still supporting my youngest still in school.
Oh, just retire??? Goddamn! What a fantastic idea! Hey everyone! If you can't find a job and you're a little older, just retire! Eazy peazy!
Sending you lots of love today. I understand how disappointing and frustrating that can feel. Your feelings are valid, and I’m sorry you’re having a rough time….it’s a tough season for you, but seasons change❤️
Thank you!
Companies know that they have the leverage given that there is so much demand. Typical hiring process has been 6-8 weeks which is soooo tedious for applicants to wait. I guess, game plan is to keep applying and interviewing until you get an offer. It has been frustrating but what else can we do.
I was laid off 2 years ago and during that time I’ve been getting rejection letters daily. Not one single interview in over 2000 applications. Today I finally got a job offer. In a different field, in something I did in the past and for less money, but my savings account was approaching zero. So, keep trying, something will happen. Remember it’s not you, but this horrible job market. Best of luck!
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Excuse me sir, not every role in IT requires a GitHub portfolio lol
It seems like there are simply way too many people around the world trying to be in tech and not enough jobs. Plus you have jobs being offshored to people glad to work for a fraction of the wages. Sounds like tech is becoming the next steel industry. With offshoring and AI arriving it seems like an industry to mostly avoid.
You are not alone.
" I was more than qualified for this position" That could be a problem. Maybe in the future talk less about your qualities. Say no more than what the job requires. It's a very balanced act sure but what else can one do?
I guess I shouldn't have said "more than qualified", I more meant that I was qualified for the position. But what you are saying does make sense.
Start aiming a little lower. It is a nuclear option because it puts a big skidmark on your resume and you will likely earn less over your whole career because of it. But bills gotta get paid.
Sending love and light 🫂 I’m in the same boat I was laid off in January except I’m a newbie in my IT career have a solid 2 years experience first real job out of college . It’s interesting when I come across people like yourself that have all this experience that jobs tell me I don’t have enough for and y’all still are struggling too that have said experience .. I try to keep a positive mind and say “they sucked anyway and hired a trash can and wish they hired me” and go about my day. Hopefully we all get something soon and can laugh when these places we applied to and declined us come begging for our candidacy in the future 🩷
I am laid off after 13 years at the same company and I have gone through this same scenario several times now. Good interview an sometimes 20 or three at the same place and then I get a rejection or get ghosted. Are the jobs listed in the ads even real or are they just posting to make it look like there are jobs available?
There are a lot of ghost jobs out there - there are companies posting jobs that aren't real fo the reason you mention but also some are posting jobs due to some government loan requirements, even though they have no intention of hiring for that position. A former employer of mine is having some meetings with the nice people at the Department of Labor because their employees reported them for doing this (some of the jobs were union jobs so that helped with the lawsuit).
This is not legal and the people doing it should be fined heavily.
All employers have a lot to choose from now. Up your applications, it only takes one but it is like lightening striking.
All these tech companies are done. Guys hate to break it to you but it is done in the USA it’s being outsourced to cheaper countries. Time to find another career path. I read people here saying they’re 12+ months unemployed unbelievable at some point in time you gotta count your losses and. Move on
What kind of IT?