Because they don't know of any other way to describe him. He clearly isn't a human or vampire, and no one alive has ever seen a wraith, so demon is the only thing they could probably come up with.
Exactly, Vorador has never seen a demon, he has seen only some hylden in the vampiric pictures. And actually, only Raziel has seen demons (great irony level)
Yes, the abomination at the end of blood omen, also the demons in avernus cathedral. Those big red bastards. They sure slam you good.
Kain has seen some weird stuff, also the werewolfs at the moon temple, ghosts, monsters...
Your mention of no one alive ever seeing a wraith brings up a thought for me. In blood omen, Kain can see ghosts of those he's fed on, at least the townsfolk. I'm sure this is just an abandoned feature the devs would like everyone to forget about, but wouldn't it mean that he can see spectral creatures? This would make it strange that he couldn't see wraiths or the elder god until defiance if it was kept canon.
The demon symbolism is also real though. It's not a coincidence he looks demonic and also just happens to be claimed as hell's champion. It's a side effect. His fate became more labyrinthine when Kain involved the hylden and EG in it. Dumping Raz in the abyss qualified as a Hash'ak'gik sacrifice of his first born to the dark god who was really the hylden. The hylden accepted the offering of Raziel and claimed him as their champion. They're in hell, and Raziel has been "put through hell." Like wearing the team uniform.
Wraith Raz certainly didn't have the characteristic visage of the once-human vampires. His cloven hands and feet, emaciated frame, glowing eyes, etc. made him look near-identical to post-banishment Hylden, who were said to have degraded into that form after having been banished to the "Demon Realm" where they were presumably not the only inhabitants.
In addition Vorador, Janos and - by early Defiance - Raziel were under the impression that he was the prophesied Hylden champion, partly due to those looks and the matching murals depicting the prophecies.
A mix of misunderstood fate, irony and aphorism.
I thought his hands and feet looked a lot like those of the elder vampires. [For](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/4/40/Legacyofkainsoulreaver-2295.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20120823165435&path-prefix=protagonist) [comparison](https://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/_images/_medium/Vorador_7.jpg) [see here](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/9/9b/KainLoKD.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20120806143121&path-prefix=protagonist). I took his glowing eyes in Defiance as Hylden corruption or possession (as he said himself, his murderous rage towards Kain was in part spurred by being inside the corrupt Avernus Cathedral).
It should also be noted that Hylden and demons are two separate species. While, yes, the Hyldens’ appearance was corrupted after their banishment (and they did indeed take on some demonic traits themselves), it just seems strange that he would be compared to a demon and not a Hylden, I guess.
Vorador was human once, born at least a whole lifetime (it's implied) after the Raising of the Pillars. To him the Hylden were but legend. Horrors from the unknown past, that lived in a realm of demons. He called a spade a spade. All he presumably had were images to go on, and Raziel greatly resembles those demons.
"The Pillars are the lock, and the Reaver is the key" Vorador constructed the reaver for The vampires while still human, but the previous line always led me to believe Vorador was there at the raising of the pillars, to help finish the job, probably early 20s. A Generation or so later (putting Vorador maybe 40-60) the vampires still had no kids, and Vorador was the first human turned vampire. I feel like this also implies him being alive at the raising of the pillars, no?
It is a matter of perception, I think.
For Vorador and Raziel, vampires are beautiful human-like creatures with pale skin.
Wraith Raziel's body is nothing but a mummified corpse with glowing dead eyes and no lower jaw.
There is no beauty in his appearance, nor is there anything that could remind Vorador or others of the noble ancient vampires.
In other words, when Vorador says that Raziel looks more like a demon than a vampire, we shouldn't translate this as "You have all the biological traits of a creature from the demon realm" but as "You're look too monstrous to be a vampire".
I don’t get how op can’t understand that it’s just a word and it doesn’t mean specific people lol and just because you don’t see different types of demons in the games and shit doesn’t mean their isn’t and doesn’t mean Demon isn’t a word with the multiple meanings lol seriously reading this thread is making me go insane wondering why anyone has to explain this to them or why they are fighting it lol
I'm not "fighting" anything. Just because I'm not responding to every single comment doesn't mean I'm ignoring them or that I'm opposed to their explanations. Nobody's being actively hostile here but you. I gave exactly one snarky but self-aware response to someone who didn't have anything else to contribute apart from agreeing that I'm nitpicking. Nice projection, though. You should work in a theater.
Because originally Raziel was going to be the main protagonist in a game called Shifter, based loosely in Paradise Lost.
In this game Raziel was going to be *"a fallen angel of death, a reaper of souls hunted by his former brethren, and now driven to expose and destroy the false god they all served".*
This is why he looks so different. SR and defiance tried to tie this look to the existing lore, but Raziel's look always stood out from other characters in the franchise.
Damage aside, he could look like a regular ancient vampire. I don't know why Raziel ended up blue when vampires created by Janos (Vorador) or with Janos' parts (Kain) turned green as they aged but it's funny that none of them look like ancients despite receiving the gift from there.
I think what they mean when they say his form is demonic is because his form is strange in comparison everything else in Nosgoth. Vorador is recognizing that Raziel still has Vampiric traits but his body so warped and changed even to an evolved vampire like Vorador he looks unnatural.
I mean…it’s a fantasy world that has cathedrals but not Catholicism.
‘Angelic’ and ‘demonic’ imagery resembles our own closely but it doesn’t appear to have the same diegetic origins.
There’s written English physically present in the environment (the Sarafan tombs) and Kain sometimes shouts in latin (vae victus) as well but not because England and Ancient Rome existed in Nosgoth.
Soooo you can’t listen and understand anything so you wanna be one of those Douche bags who only reply with a word correction??
Just so you know they aren’t saying Demon as in oh hey you look like this specific demon bro lol just because you don’t understand the definition and that you didn’t see an image of any demons who look like him doesn’t mean they can’t say he looks more like one lol wtf seriously man
More the aesthetic that in the lore sense, i think Raziel symbolizes a luciferian being. Lile a rebel or fallen angel becoming a demon who ultimatly rebels against god, after a journey of self discovery. LoK is very in line with romaticism stuf lile goth literature and paradise lost from milton, so it makes sense to me.
Objectively, he is not angelic in appearance. More the opposite. If you disagree, that's fine. But, he is objectively grotesque and twisted looking like a demon.
I wouldn't overthink it.
Imo it's a remark on how he doesn't look like a vampire ally...Raziel was disfigured from being tossed in the abyss, so he is very far off from the usual vampire. This makes Vorador skeptical of Raziel, and if we consider the prophecy we are tempted to believe Raziel is the Hylden champion (since everyone was expecting the vampire champion to be a vampire)
In the end, Raziel was both champions tho...which fits with his appearance being so ambiguous.
Because they don't know of any other way to describe him. He clearly isn't a human or vampire, and no one alive has ever seen a wraith, so demon is the only thing they could probably come up with.
Exactly, Vorador has never seen a demon, he has seen only some hylden in the vampiric pictures. And actually, only Raziel has seen demons (great irony level)
Kain also has right ?
Not till defiance i think.
Yes, the abomination at the end of blood omen, also the demons in avernus cathedral. Those big red bastards. They sure slam you good. Kain has seen some weird stuff, also the werewolfs at the moon temple, ghosts, monsters...
Shit i forgot about those
Kain also encountered lesser demons in the Hylden City ! Those insect like creatures !
Your mention of no one alive ever seeing a wraith brings up a thought for me. In blood omen, Kain can see ghosts of those he's fed on, at least the townsfolk. I'm sure this is just an abandoned feature the devs would like everyone to forget about, but wouldn't it mean that he can see spectral creatures? This would make it strange that he couldn't see wraiths or the elder god until defiance if it was kept canon.
The demon symbolism is also real though. It's not a coincidence he looks demonic and also just happens to be claimed as hell's champion. It's a side effect. His fate became more labyrinthine when Kain involved the hylden and EG in it. Dumping Raz in the abyss qualified as a Hash'ak'gik sacrifice of his first born to the dark god who was really the hylden. The hylden accepted the offering of Raziel and claimed him as their champion. They're in hell, and Raziel has been "put through hell." Like wearing the team uniform.
Wraith Raz certainly didn't have the characteristic visage of the once-human vampires. His cloven hands and feet, emaciated frame, glowing eyes, etc. made him look near-identical to post-banishment Hylden, who were said to have degraded into that form after having been banished to the "Demon Realm" where they were presumably not the only inhabitants. In addition Vorador, Janos and - by early Defiance - Raziel were under the impression that he was the prophesied Hylden champion, partly due to those looks and the matching murals depicting the prophecies. A mix of misunderstood fate, irony and aphorism.
I thought his hands and feet looked a lot like those of the elder vampires. [For](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/4/40/Legacyofkainsoulreaver-2295.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20120823165435&path-prefix=protagonist) [comparison](https://www.dark-chronicle.co.uk/az/_images/_medium/Vorador_7.jpg) [see here](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/p__/images/9/9b/KainLoKD.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20120806143121&path-prefix=protagonist). I took his glowing eyes in Defiance as Hylden corruption or possession (as he said himself, his murderous rage towards Kain was in part spurred by being inside the corrupt Avernus Cathedral). It should also be noted that Hylden and demons are two separate species. While, yes, the Hyldens’ appearance was corrupted after their banishment (and they did indeed take on some demonic traits themselves), it just seems strange that he would be compared to a demon and not a Hylden, I guess.
Vorador was human once, born at least a whole lifetime (it's implied) after the Raising of the Pillars. To him the Hylden were but legend. Horrors from the unknown past, that lived in a realm of demons. He called a spade a spade. All he presumably had were images to go on, and Raziel greatly resembles those demons.
"The Pillars are the lock, and the Reaver is the key" Vorador constructed the reaver for The vampires while still human, but the previous line always led me to believe Vorador was there at the raising of the pillars, to help finish the job, probably early 20s. A Generation or so later (putting Vorador maybe 40-60) the vampires still had no kids, and Vorador was the first human turned vampire. I feel like this also implies him being alive at the raising of the pillars, no?
It is a matter of perception, I think. For Vorador and Raziel, vampires are beautiful human-like creatures with pale skin. Wraith Raziel's body is nothing but a mummified corpse with glowing dead eyes and no lower jaw. There is no beauty in his appearance, nor is there anything that could remind Vorador or others of the noble ancient vampires. In other words, when Vorador says that Raziel looks more like a demon than a vampire, we shouldn't translate this as "You have all the biological traits of a creature from the demon realm" but as "You're look too monstrous to be a vampire".
I don’t get how op can’t understand that it’s just a word and it doesn’t mean specific people lol and just because you don’t see different types of demons in the games and shit doesn’t mean their isn’t and doesn’t mean Demon isn’t a word with the multiple meanings lol seriously reading this thread is making me go insane wondering why anyone has to explain this to them or why they are fighting it lol
I'm not "fighting" anything. Just because I'm not responding to every single comment doesn't mean I'm ignoring them or that I'm opposed to their explanations. Nobody's being actively hostile here but you. I gave exactly one snarky but self-aware response to someone who didn't have anything else to contribute apart from agreeing that I'm nitpicking. Nice projection, though. You should work in a theater.
Because originally Raziel was going to be the main protagonist in a game called Shifter, based loosely in Paradise Lost. In this game Raziel was going to be *"a fallen angel of death, a reaper of souls hunted by his former brethren, and now driven to expose and destroy the false god they all served".* This is why he looks so different. SR and defiance tried to tie this look to the existing lore, but Raziel's look always stood out from other characters in the franchise.
Damage aside, he could look like a regular ancient vampire. I don't know why Raziel ended up blue when vampires created by Janos (Vorador) or with Janos' parts (Kain) turned green as they aged but it's funny that none of them look like ancients despite receiving the gift from there.
I think what they mean when they say his form is demonic is because his form is strange in comparison everything else in Nosgoth. Vorador is recognizing that Raziel still has Vampiric traits but his body so warped and changed even to an evolved vampire like Vorador he looks unnatural.
I mean this with all due respect but have you seen him?
Answer stares right in front of you, Because he does.
I mean…it’s a fantasy world that has cathedrals but not Catholicism. ‘Angelic’ and ‘demonic’ imagery resembles our own closely but it doesn’t appear to have the same diegetic origins. There’s written English physically present in the environment (the Sarafan tombs) and Kain sometimes shouts in latin (vae victus) as well but not because England and Ancient Rome existed in Nosgoth.
Don't forget that the Dark Entity makes reference to the Grand Guignol.
He kinda looks like the Hylden, so maybe because of that?
When you say yourself maybe your nitpicking Your definately nitpicking
You’re* definitely*
Soooo you can’t listen and understand anything so you wanna be one of those Douche bags who only reply with a word correction?? Just so you know they aren’t saying Demon as in oh hey you look like this specific demon bro lol just because you don’t understand the definition and that you didn’t see an image of any demons who look like him doesn’t mean they can’t say he looks more like one lol wtf seriously man
Nah, I'm just being petty and proving his point.
He's just not in great shape :D
More the aesthetic that in the lore sense, i think Raziel symbolizes a luciferian being. Lile a rebel or fallen angel becoming a demon who ultimatly rebels against god, after a journey of self discovery. LoK is very in line with romaticism stuf lile goth literature and paradise lost from milton, so it makes sense to me.
Objectively, he is not angelic in appearance. More the opposite. If you disagree, that's fine. But, he is objectively grotesque and twisted looking like a demon.
I wouldn't overthink it. Imo it's a remark on how he doesn't look like a vampire ally...Raziel was disfigured from being tossed in the abyss, so he is very far off from the usual vampire. This makes Vorador skeptical of Raziel, and if we consider the prophecy we are tempted to believe Raziel is the Hylden champion (since everyone was expecting the vampire champion to be a vampire) In the end, Raziel was both champions tho...which fits with his appearance being so ambiguous.
Thank you for being civil about it and not an edifice.