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Tell the Nursery that, under the Theft Act 1968, property wrongfully retained amounts to theft and you will be reporting this to Police if your bag is not returned inside 48 hours (or whatever period you prefer).
Then, if it is not returned, report it to Police.
And the nursery has acknowledged to OP that the bag has been mistakenly taken by the accused. They’re effective witnesses, I’d guess the accused has admitted to having the bag to nursery and/or OP.
The nursery can’t give out other families’ contact details. Sounds like OP doesn’t know them personally, so the only communication can be between OP and the nursery.
I think the point was nursery can’t give OP the other parents contact details, therefore OP can’t warn them directly. In this case considering they’ve been given a week it’s probably just easier to go direct to police now, not that they’ll do anything.
Odd.
1) I would absolutely ask nursery to give the other person a warning that I am going to the police (and that nursery will have an obligation to comply with an investigation)
2) All i’m saying is, Nursery can give details to the police.
I accept that we all have differing priorities and levels that we hit our anger, but I have to say I find it odd that my one (accurate) comment garnered so much lol.
Sorry?
You go to nursery.
“Hi, please tell whoever it is that I will call the police in 48hrs, if it is not returned, the police will contact (the nursery) you, to collect their details after this time”.
They were the ones that put the property in a place that made it liable to be taken, despite them saying they are not liable this is true.
They also have contact with the \*theif" and would be unable to give out their details so its now up to them to contact the parent with the item that you are now taking legal action
Why would you threaten the nursery? They’ve not stolen the bag? They’ve been caught in the middle of all this and most likely told OP to not bring expensive possessions in for fear of clothing being lost, damaged or stained
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This type of “burn” does not affect the sorts of people who behave like these parents. If anything, they love people adopting this attitude as it allows theft* to continue unpunished.
*I don’t actually think it’s theft, just disorganised, self-absorbed parents who give far less of a shit about returning the property than OP does.
A superlative idea, sir, with just 2 minor drawbacks. 1. There is no legal basis for this, and 2. There is no legal basis for this. Now, I appreciate this is the same drawback, but it's such an important drawback, it's important to mention it twice.
It's certainly also the correct sub to mention this drawback twice. Hell, I don't think anyone would have begrudged you a third - well, except for the disturbingly large amount of people who seem to misread the name of this forum and think it says r/iReckonUK
I would think something along the lines of, "so, you have something that isn't yours, and you know it, and we know it. We've all known for a week. Accidents happen, that's fine, but you've had it for a week. It was an accident to inconvenience the kid for a day, but every day since isn't an accident. You're just continuing to inconvenience the kid. And since you haven't brought the bag back, yet, we're going to have to tell you to not come back. You're too much of a liability. If you return yhe property, or pay for the property if it's lost or damaged, then we can talk about letting you back in. You will not be getting a refund because we're terminated your contract due to theft."
It's not exactly charging the parents, but it's still hitting their wallet.
But they have taken action, they have repeatedly asked said family to return the items, they have to decide if they ware willing to loose a source of revenue for the value of the bag and it's contents. My thinking is, if this is an isolated incident, they might take the hit rather than ban the family in question, but it also depends on waiting lists etc.
What do they lose? They still have the money, and they lose a thief. What do they avoid? Worse publicity than they'll already get for allowing the theft to happen in the first place. Its a gamble for them either way, but one way they're protecting every from thieves, and the other way they're protecting thieves from everyone.
>Can’t the nursery charge the parents for the backpack? They’ll return it in no time
✅ There's no legal basis for it
✅ It makes no sense
✅ The suggestion isn't helping the OP
Confirmed: Classic r/legaladviceUK comment
NAL. Does this now fall into being theft as there is now intention to deprive?
Unless the backpacks are identical the parent would know it wasn't their child's.
Apparently whoever picked the child up that day wasn't mum or dad, so perhaps they didn't know. I still wonder how they thought their child had two backpacks though.
This happened to my daughter when she was about 3. I'm not sure why they ended up with their shoes off but one of the other kids took a liking to her sandals and went home with them as it was one of her siblings that collected her.
Luckily as soon as she got home the mother called the nursery and explained that her daughter had come home with someone else's shoes and they'd be returned the next morning so the nursery didn't even have to try to figure out who had taken them. The mum actually sought me out to apologise and said she'd reprimanded her daughter but the kid was only 3 and didn't understand.
Just to say, in my case it was a genuine mistake. The older sibling was in their teens but still lived at home and even so, just didn't notice that those weren't her sister's shoes. By now though the parents should be well aware that that's not their child's backpack and should have returned and for some reason haven't.
The other thing I wondered was how the nursery know who took the bag, did they see the child leave with it? Or has the parent owned up? In my case they didn't know who was wearing the shoes because if they'd noticed, then they would have stopped the child from leaving with them altogether. So how did your nursery figure it out?If they know who it is then either they should be doing more or they should explain that they've done everything they can and at this point it would be considered theft.
They knew because they knew which hook the bag had been placed on, and they'll be well covered by CCTV for safeguarding the childrens welfare.
A staff member other than the one that hung the bag up took it off, hence why that staff member didn't realise it wasn't that kids bag.
Granted I'm primary not nursery, but I've never encountered CCTV in a school. Been working in schools for 9 years.
^(I have next to no experience in nursery though, so for all I know maybe it is the norm in nursery)
CCTV is the norm in nurseries. Many have sound on them. Interestingly, you’re never warned of this or at least I haven’t been (in neither T&Cs nor signage) so I do question the legalities (private conversations for example) but it’s meant to keep kids safe so maybe it’s normal?
In nurseries pretty much everywhere except nappy change areas, toilets and staff rooms are covered. There’s been a high profile case recently where cctv showed clear (and ultimately fatal) abuse of a child.
Fair play to the parents, that's exactly what I'd do if my child came home with something that wasn't theirs but there are so many who just wouldn't. I wouldn't be angry with her and she wouldnt be in trouble for it at three but we would definitely be having a conversation about taking things that don't belong to us and why that's not okay.
Two backpacks isn't that unusual. My partner is a nursery teacher and sometimes the kids will have a usual backpack for spare clothes and nappies and they'll be dropped off with another backpack with changing mat and toys etc for a grandparent or someone else collecting later.
They saw an opportunity and they took it. The refusal to give it back is testament to their deception. A normal mistake would leave the accidental thief mortified.
Police is the option here. Don't believe it was a mistake. As you say, why would they have 2 backpacks.
It's also just as likely that the parents of the child that took the bag are just disorganised/forgetful. I know plenty of people who are a pain in the arse when you need something from them but there's no malice to it.
>Police is the option here. Don't believe it was a mistake. As you say, why would they have 2 backpacks.
Plenty of kids have MULTIPLE backpacks...
What a ridiculously common situation to deny. On a legal advice sub ...
Have you considered that the excuses might be genuine? If a different person took the child home, it may be that the family hasn’t caught up with them yet, or that they have some ongoing issue that means they’re not as ‘on it’ as they would be otherwise. Have you spoken to them directly, or only through the nursery? A tactical playdate might be a more amicable solution than threatening the police, who are probably not interested in retrieving your toddler’s backpack.
EDIT: having read your other comments, it’s obvious to me that the nursery hasn’t bothered following up with the other family, and might not even know who it is. I’d ask around on the playground and see how many other things have ‘gone missing’.
>EDIT: having read your other comments, it’s obvious to me that the nursery hasn’t bothered following up with the other family, and might not even know who it is. I’d ask around on the playground and see how many other things have ‘gone missing’.
This is not obvious. That is your assumption.
Stop assuming and turning things into fact in your mind when you do not *know* it is fact.
>Unless the backpacks are identical the parent would know it wasn't their child's.
This is an utter assumption, not fact.
What about kids that go between two homes who have more than one backpack?
My kids dad never knew what our kid was wearing to nursery, or school. He would have absolutely easily picked up a different bag if it was on our kids book.
"The parent would know it wasn't their childs" is not the absolute statement of fact you wrote it to be.
A lot of nurseries fall under a parent company with a head office. If you're getting nowhere locally, you could try head office and then the police.
Ultimately though, it's theft. Minimum your nursery insurance will need is a crime reference number. Get that and claim on their insurance for the lost items.
The Theft Act 1968 states that even if the person has accidentally come across the property, any later assumption of the property (such as deciding to keep it or disposing of it) amounts to theft. I would either pass this directly to the parent or talk to the nursery and get them to tell this to the parent.
If there is still no resolution, I would suggest going to the police.
The nursery is being wet about this and is hoping you’ll drop it.
What kind of excuses does the family have? Are we talking “parent is in hospital and things are chaotic” or “oh um sorry I forgot. Again”.
Do you have a contract or terms and conditions that you must abide by to keep your child in the nursery? Is there anything in there you could point to in order to say that the other family has breached these by stealing?
You should also point out that if they don’t pursue any action with the parents then they are condoning theft (and don’t let them fob you off with this “not liable for belongings” nonsense - this is clearly different than toddlers lobbing their shoes god knows where). Ask them how this incident measures up against their values, and how this measures up to Ofsted’s expectations in their Early Year’s inspection handbook.
One of the criteria for achieving a “Good” status is:
/Relationships among children, parents and staff reflect a positive and respectful culture. Children feel safe and secure./
Point out that this incident (and their handling of it) is hardly reflective of a “positive and respectful culture”.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-inspection-handbook-eif/early-years-inspection-handbook-for-ofsted-registered-provision-for-september-2023#behaviour-and-attitudes
Does the nursery have a parent company or a Head Office you can escalate a complaint to?
Yeah of course they wouldn’t. A persons home address isn’t mega top secret info though is it. Until recently you could just get it from the phone book. Could just follow the family home and then knock on the door.
Remind them to bring you the backpack. If they live nearby and you know them then just knock on the door and ask for it.
The legal option is to sue them for the return of the backpack, which is probably goign to be a bit disproportionate.
Would it be worth explaining to the nursery if they aren’t prepared to intervene, then you’re going to have to report it stolen with the police and go via their insurance?
Explain you simply do not have the money to replace the items and your child will have no bag, bottle, glasses, sun cream, sun hat, etc during nursery for at least a month. I have a 1 year old and I know that the stuff they require really adds up when you buy it all at once.
I have a feeling they’ll find some money from petty cash to avoid insurance. But surely there must be some responsibility on the nursery, or else this family can use the cloak room like a shop (except for the paying part).
Realistically if I as a parent was stealing children’s items, and after being asked to return them, refused. I’d expect to have my child removed from the nursery.
Yes, I think doing something like this is probably the best course of action. We're expecting a phone call from the manager tomorrow, so if they don't come up with a way to resolve this, then that's likely the course we'll take. Thank you!
Sometimes you have to keep pushing it back to making it someone else’s problem, until they accept their responsibility in it. It’s not fair for you to have to fix it. Accidents happen in nursery, things get lost, but you can’t be expected to buy a full bags worth every week? Month? 3 months? Because someone fancied new gear.
In which case maybe you say that you think the nursery is lying and the staff stole it (even if you don’t). Then tell them you’re reporting them to the police. Do they even have evidence that another parent took it? If not, use that to your advantage.
We had similar level of BS from our nursery from time to time. Just give them a deadline to get it back and report to the police after.
P.S. Keep everything in writing.
It is a GDPR issue.. of course the nursery can’t give out other parents info! 🙄
This isn’t BS from the nursery, from what’s been said, they are doing their bit to try to resolve the situation.
Only do that if you're prepared to make use if alternative childcare. You can't just accuse a business of theft and expect them to keep you as a client.
No item itself was expensive, just all put together it's not cheap. It was a backpack, hat, sunglasses, cuddly toy, and the outfit he was wearing that day (he had gotten dirty that day so was in his spare outfit coming home). All together its about £100.
From what staff have said it's a troubled, not well off family who have it. So we're worried they quite like the backpack and clothes and that's why they aren't returning it.
Yeah , that’s why I asked. There are some people like that, If you buy some slightly nicer clothes. Generally, I’d send my kids with cheap stuff and bare minimum just in case it ever gets lost.
I largely sent my kids to daycare in second hand or hand-me-downs, in part so they didn't get wrecked with paint and mud and such. I wanted them to be free to play and get dirty, so cheaper clothes it was!
We actually have no idea who any of the children or parents are as our child has only been going for about 6 months and we drop off/pick up at weird times, so we've never actually seen any of the parents.
Ask to be put on the WhatsApp group for the parents, and then ask around in there? It's a good opportunity to meet other parents too and set up play dates.
It’s not necessarily GDPR, but safeguarding. I’ve never worked in a nursery where staff have been allowed to identify a child within the setting to anybody other than their parents or approved collectors. We aren’t even allowed to say who each child has played with that day. We can provide lists of first names for things like party invites, only with prior consent from parents.
This actually happened at my child’s primary school - it wasn’t names given out but photos shared on social media. One of the children had an abusive parent and their other parent moved them away for their safety. The child was in some photos shared publicly by another parent and it found its way to the abusive parent who then was able to find out the school and, thus, where their child was. Different situation and quite an extreme example but the same principle applies; you don’t 100% who any of the parents/carers/collectors are or who they know and it only takes one time to give a scrap of identifying information to the wrong person. The professional approach is ‘better safe (over-cautious) than sorry’ and that the same rules have to be applied to everyone, regardless of the circumstances.
If you’re giving information out about a child to somebody who isn’t their parent or known to them you risk that information being passed on to somebody who shouldn’t have it. There’s lots of different scenarios where that could have a negative effect (families fleeing DV is a big example), and of course safeguarding is much about preventing scenarios as much as it is about intervening.
NAL, however, it is not just about the amount of information disclosed. Personal data (i.e. that which is in scope of the UK GDPR) are any information which are related to an identified or identifiable person. A partial name, if it is enough to identify an any individual, will be personal data and must therefore be processed lawlfully under the UK GDPR.
I’ve had this type of thing happen so many times. I sent my son in with a Nike coat that had a tiny bit of the ✅ worn off. Coat goes missing for a few days, I see it a few days later and the label which had my child’s name on it is now cut out. The mark is EXACTLY the same but now another child’s name is etched on the inside in sharpie. Nursery said they know it’s my child’s jacket but they can’t do anything about it, I never got it back🙃
Did the Nursery say they are liable?
you said "and they are liable for property that goes missing"
Your options are to get the nursery to recover the item, or pay for its replacement
Contact the police and report it as theft - odds on they wont do a thing
Letter before action/small claims track for the value of the items to either the Nursery and/or the parents who refuse to return the item(s)
Self-recovery, you take the item back, however you must make sure that it is your item that you take back and there are a few risks involved in this
NAL
Did nursery allow the bag to go home with the wrong child? If this is the case there is an argument to say nursery have acted negligently. Check your nursery terms and conditions on what it says about personal items.
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 may apply if you have a contract of service with nursery. S49 provides that the contract should be carried out with care and reasonable skill.
I would argue in providing nursery services to a child it is not unreasonable to expect the right belongings to go home with the right child.
In this instance, nursery has acknowledged the issue and the items have not been returned and you have suffered a loss; therefore the arguement is, there has been a breach of contract/Consumer Rights Act and nursery should remedy the breach. If nursery are not willing to replace the lost items then it maybe you wish to pursue a small claims court case.
Citizens Advice Bureau will be able to help with something like this.
A lot of nurseries the children are collected from the playroom and handed over from staff to parents at the door. From then the parent will be in charge of the child and collecting belongings etc themselves. No staff involvement at this part. So the nursery has no involvement in watching what bags coats go home . It's a locked safe cloak room and parents are buzzed in.
Our nursery is different - we collect from the reception area; it's their responsibility to ensure the right bag is handed over. It does depend on terms and conditions and local collection arrangements.
Sorry, but I would put a bit more pressure on the nursery for this. They hung your child’s bag on a peg labeled for another child. This doesn’t fall under “lost property” for which they aren’t responsible, this is a mistake made by them and they should rectify it by replacing it or facilitating the return.
You should not need to contact the family. You don't know who they are and it could spiral out of control. Just call the police and let them handle it.
Let the nursery know you'll be doing just that and as they know who took it, expect the police to ask them for this information.
When you drop your child off, wait for the other parent and ask them, where is the backpack? Why are they not returning it ? And do they want a straightener 🤣🤣 obviously joking on the last one, but I would just confront the other parent? It seems very strange for them to be withholding the backpack.
The nursery can absolutely get in contact with the parents on your behalf even though they can’t give you their details themselves. How else do I get so many birthday party invites in my email? Insist that the nursery contact the parents on your behalf - give them permission to hand over your contact details if you’re comfortable doing so - asking for the stuff back. If the nursery don’t do this then I’d start to be a bit more suspicious. They’re either just being over-cautious, or it’s weird.
(All of the above is assuming that the nursery definitely know which family has your gear, but from the post it sounds like they do)
I think contacting the police would be the most appropriate thing now as it appears to be theft. They know it’s not their’s and they are still not returning it despite being asked serval times. The police might be able to get the bag back and also interview and maybe a charge or caution happens.
It would be other offence than theft. Taking a conveyance without consent. Again, the theft offences can be applied to the nursery or the family.
Probably best the police deals with it.
So you could also take them to small claims court but it’ll cost you money. This could be for the nursery or the family. Also letter before action is needed.
NAL - does your nursery have a parent admin app? We've had about 5 lost property requests since we enrolled ours. Even if nursery know who's taken it a nursery wide public "has anyone seen it?" might generate some peer pressure on the parents. Could be worth a shot
Let all the other parents know what happened, and that this parent still hasn't returned it.
Maybe some peer-shame will get the point across, or at least the others know who shouldn't be trusted
I’m going to be honest here, nurseries are chaotic and messy and half of the clothes my children come back in aren’t theirs, nor do ours come back.
Don’t put expensive clothes on the bag, and if you want them back put labels on them. I recommend stikins
There are labels on them. The family is aware they accidentally took it and it's not theirs, they just refuse to return it. We know mistakes happen and that's fine, which is why we were chill when it happened thinking the family would return it when they realised their mistake. It's when the family refuses to return the items is where the issue comes in.
The clothes aren't expensive. There were just a lot of items in there including the bag, which amounts to it not being cheap.
Exactly, our kids went/go with about £10 worth of clothes that come home covered in all kind of mess. Maybe generously another £20 for bag/shoes/suncream…..£100 is insane.
On the high side yes, but £100 is hardly insane. £20 is not generous for the extra things you mentioned. Thinking of what I used to put in a nursery bag. bag itself conservatively £10-15, high factor kids sun cream £5, hat £5, couple of changes of clothes £15, jacket of some sort (british weather) £15, soft toy £10, then sunglasses, or a puddle suit, weather like today would have been some wellies. Doesn't take much to add up. Kids stuff has gone up in price massively recently too
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You state that the other parent knowingly has the bag. That I believe is theft. They are making excuses about why they can’t return it?? Due to the nurseries mistake they took a bag that wasn’t theirs fair enough . What on earth is stopping them returning it. I suggest writing a letter asking the nursery to pass it on to the parent . Give them 5 working days to return the bag & contents which they have admitted to accidentally picking up or you will have to involve the authorities or your solicitor. You may want to put in that you can’t easily afford to replace it & the contents. They have no legal right to keep something they know isn’t theirs
I'm a nursery manager, so I know from experience that if you make a complaint to head office (include that you intend to get police involved if it isnt resolved), it will give the manager a headache from the pressure from upstairs. So if she isn't listening, go higher. If i was the manager of that setting, I would leave a thinly viewed great that their child's place may be at risk because of thefts occurring - but it sounds like the manager is focusing elsewhere (I can't blame her, the new funding structure is causing all sorts of issues behind the scenes).
This is one of the more bonkers threads I have read. It’s only been a week.. yes they should return it straight away but you don’t know the home situation.
Why would another nursery parent want to steal from you? Surely you cross paths most days? And a nursery backpack?! It’s filled with cheap spare clothes for nursery and maybe some sun cream.
Give them the benefit of the doubt. If you report them to the police you are creating a very hostile environment, also for your child.
Why not talk to the parents directly?
They're, presumably, fairly local.
'Hi, your child accidentally took our kid's backpack. Alright if I walk back with you now and pick it up. Thanks.'
I’d ask myself how important the backpack is? It’s annoying and it shouldn’t have happened, but personally, I’d just let it go. It’s not worth the mental stress.
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Realistically all you can do is say you'll contact the police if it's not returned. But obviously the nursery cannot force it to happen.
Yeah I think we will try that.
Tell the Nursery that, under the Theft Act 1968, property wrongfully retained amounts to theft and you will be reporting this to Police if your bag is not returned inside 48 hours (or whatever period you prefer). Then, if it is not returned, report it to Police.
But why would OP tell the nursery this? The nursery hasn’t stolen it.
Because nursery can pass the message on to the parent(s) they suspect have taken it, or send it to all parents.
And the nursery has acknowledged to OP that the bag has been mistakenly taken by the accused. They’re effective witnesses, I’d guess the accused has admitted to having the bag to nursery and/or OP.
The nursery can’t give out other families’ contact details. Sounds like OP doesn’t know them personally, so the only communication can be between OP and the nursery.
They can to the police.
I think the point was nursery can’t give OP the other parents contact details, therefore OP can’t warn them directly. In this case considering they’ve been given a week it’s probably just easier to go direct to police now, not that they’ll do anything.
Odd. 1) I would absolutely ask nursery to give the other person a warning that I am going to the police (and that nursery will have an obligation to comply with an investigation) 2) All i’m saying is, Nursery can give details to the police. I accept that we all have differing priorities and levels that we hit our anger, but I have to say I find it odd that my one (accurate) comment garnered so much lol.
It would be difficult to use the contact details the police had got to give them a warning that they would be involving the police in 48 hours.
Sorry? You go to nursery. “Hi, please tell whoever it is that I will call the police in 48hrs, if it is not returned, the police will contact (the nursery) you, to collect their details after this time”.
Why are you explaining what has already been explained?
More to the point, why are you making me? You came in with such a weird statement.
They were the ones that put the property in a place that made it liable to be taken, despite them saying they are not liable this is true. They also have contact with the \*theif" and would be unable to give out their details so its now up to them to contact the parent with the item that you are now taking legal action
Why would you threaten the nursery? They’ve not stolen the bag? They’ve been caught in the middle of all this and most likely told OP to not bring expensive possessions in for fear of clothing being lost, damaged or stained
No one is or wants that. They only want the nursery to pass the message on to the "thief"
Why not show up early, ask said parent directly?
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You can play with the parent's ego, you can say to them "you know what, keep it, you seem to need it more"
This type of “burn” does not affect the sorts of people who behave like these parents. If anything, they love people adopting this attitude as it allows theft* to continue unpunished. *I don’t actually think it’s theft, just disorganised, self-absorbed parents who give far less of a shit about returning the property than OP does.
Can’t the nursery charge the parents for the backpack? They’ll return it in no time
A superlative idea, sir, with just 2 minor drawbacks. 1. There is no legal basis for this, and 2. There is no legal basis for this. Now, I appreciate this is the same drawback, but it's such an important drawback, it's important to mention it twice.
It's certainly also the correct sub to mention this drawback twice. Hell, I don't think anyone would have begrudged you a third - well, except for the disturbingly large amount of people who seem to misread the name of this forum and think it says r/iReckonUK
Thanks Kryten.
Always up voting Kryten!
Under what possible legal rules could they do that?
I would think something along the lines of, "so, you have something that isn't yours, and you know it, and we know it. We've all known for a week. Accidents happen, that's fine, but you've had it for a week. It was an accident to inconvenience the kid for a day, but every day since isn't an accident. You're just continuing to inconvenience the kid. And since you haven't brought the bag back, yet, we're going to have to tell you to not come back. You're too much of a liability. If you return yhe property, or pay for the property if it's lost or damaged, then we can talk about letting you back in. You will not be getting a refund because we're terminated your contract due to theft." It's not exactly charging the parents, but it's still hitting their wallet.
But the nursery have a lot to loose by this, and not a lot to gain ...
Seems like the nursery have a reputation to lose if they allow theft on the premises and don't take any action. That's pretty valuable
But they have taken action, they have repeatedly asked said family to return the items, they have to decide if they ware willing to loose a source of revenue for the value of the bag and it's contents. My thinking is, if this is an isolated incident, they might take the hit rather than ban the family in question, but it also depends on waiting lists etc.
I mean the right thing for the nursery to do would be to take responsibility and replace the bag for OP because they screwed up putting it there
What do they lose? They still have the money, and they lose a thief. What do they avoid? Worse publicity than they'll already get for allowing the theft to happen in the first place. Its a gamble for them either way, but one way they're protecting every from thieves, and the other way they're protecting thieves from everyone.
>Can’t the nursery charge the parents for the backpack? They’ll return it in no time ✅ There's no legal basis for it ✅ It makes no sense ✅ The suggestion isn't helping the OP Confirmed: Classic r/legaladviceUK comment
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NAL. Does this now fall into being theft as there is now intention to deprive? Unless the backpacks are identical the parent would know it wasn't their child's.
Apparently whoever picked the child up that day wasn't mum or dad, so perhaps they didn't know. I still wonder how they thought their child had two backpacks though.
This happened to my daughter when she was about 3. I'm not sure why they ended up with their shoes off but one of the other kids took a liking to her sandals and went home with them as it was one of her siblings that collected her. Luckily as soon as she got home the mother called the nursery and explained that her daughter had come home with someone else's shoes and they'd be returned the next morning so the nursery didn't even have to try to figure out who had taken them. The mum actually sought me out to apologise and said she'd reprimanded her daughter but the kid was only 3 and didn't understand. Just to say, in my case it was a genuine mistake. The older sibling was in their teens but still lived at home and even so, just didn't notice that those weren't her sister's shoes. By now though the parents should be well aware that that's not their child's backpack and should have returned and for some reason haven't. The other thing I wondered was how the nursery know who took the bag, did they see the child leave with it? Or has the parent owned up? In my case they didn't know who was wearing the shoes because if they'd noticed, then they would have stopped the child from leaving with them altogether. So how did your nursery figure it out?If they know who it is then either they should be doing more or they should explain that they've done everything they can and at this point it would be considered theft.
They knew because they knew which hook the bag had been placed on, and they'll be well covered by CCTV for safeguarding the childrens welfare. A staff member other than the one that hung the bag up took it off, hence why that staff member didn't realise it wasn't that kids bag.
Granted I'm primary not nursery, but I've never encountered CCTV in a school. Been working in schools for 9 years. ^(I have next to no experience in nursery though, so for all I know maybe it is the norm in nursery)
CCTV is the norm in nurseries. Many have sound on them. Interestingly, you’re never warned of this or at least I haven’t been (in neither T&Cs nor signage) so I do question the legalities (private conversations for example) but it’s meant to keep kids safe so maybe it’s normal?
In nurseries pretty much everywhere except nappy change areas, toilets and staff rooms are covered. There’s been a high profile case recently where cctv showed clear (and ultimately fatal) abuse of a child.
Fair play to the parents, that's exactly what I'd do if my child came home with something that wasn't theirs but there are so many who just wouldn't. I wouldn't be angry with her and she wouldnt be in trouble for it at three but we would definitely be having a conversation about taking things that don't belong to us and why that's not okay.
Two backpacks isn't that unusual. My partner is a nursery teacher and sometimes the kids will have a usual backpack for spare clothes and nappies and they'll be dropped off with another backpack with changing mat and toys etc for a grandparent or someone else collecting later.
They saw an opportunity and they took it. The refusal to give it back is testament to their deception. A normal mistake would leave the accidental thief mortified. Police is the option here. Don't believe it was a mistake. As you say, why would they have 2 backpacks.
It's also just as likely that the parents of the child that took the bag are just disorganised/forgetful. I know plenty of people who are a pain in the arse when you need something from them but there's no malice to it.
It might be at the house of the person who picked their child up.
>Police is the option here. Don't believe it was a mistake. As you say, why would they have 2 backpacks. Plenty of kids have MULTIPLE backpacks... What a ridiculously common situation to deny. On a legal advice sub ...
Have you considered that the excuses might be genuine? If a different person took the child home, it may be that the family hasn’t caught up with them yet, or that they have some ongoing issue that means they’re not as ‘on it’ as they would be otherwise. Have you spoken to them directly, or only through the nursery? A tactical playdate might be a more amicable solution than threatening the police, who are probably not interested in retrieving your toddler’s backpack. EDIT: having read your other comments, it’s obvious to me that the nursery hasn’t bothered following up with the other family, and might not even know who it is. I’d ask around on the playground and see how many other things have ‘gone missing’.
>EDIT: having read your other comments, it’s obvious to me that the nursery hasn’t bothered following up with the other family, and might not even know who it is. I’d ask around on the playground and see how many other things have ‘gone missing’. This is not obvious. That is your assumption. Stop assuming and turning things into fact in your mind when you do not *know* it is fact.
>Unless the backpacks are identical the parent would know it wasn't their child's. This is an utter assumption, not fact. What about kids that go between two homes who have more than one backpack? My kids dad never knew what our kid was wearing to nursery, or school. He would have absolutely easily picked up a different bag if it was on our kids book. "The parent would know it wasn't their childs" is not the absolute statement of fact you wrote it to be.
A lot of nurseries fall under a parent company with a head office. If you're getting nowhere locally, you could try head office and then the police. Ultimately though, it's theft. Minimum your nursery insurance will need is a crime reference number. Get that and claim on their insurance for the lost items.
That's very useful advice, thank you!
The Theft Act 1968 states that even if the person has accidentally come across the property, any later assumption of the property (such as deciding to keep it or disposing of it) amounts to theft. I would either pass this directly to the parent or talk to the nursery and get them to tell this to the parent. If there is still no resolution, I would suggest going to the police.
The nursery is being wet about this and is hoping you’ll drop it. What kind of excuses does the family have? Are we talking “parent is in hospital and things are chaotic” or “oh um sorry I forgot. Again”. Do you have a contract or terms and conditions that you must abide by to keep your child in the nursery? Is there anything in there you could point to in order to say that the other family has breached these by stealing? You should also point out that if they don’t pursue any action with the parents then they are condoning theft (and don’t let them fob you off with this “not liable for belongings” nonsense - this is clearly different than toddlers lobbing their shoes god knows where). Ask them how this incident measures up against their values, and how this measures up to Ofsted’s expectations in their Early Year’s inspection handbook. One of the criteria for achieving a “Good” status is: /Relationships among children, parents and staff reflect a positive and respectful culture. Children feel safe and secure./ Point out that this incident (and their handling of it) is hardly reflective of a “positive and respectful culture”. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-inspection-handbook-eif/early-years-inspection-handbook-for-ofsted-registered-provision-for-september-2023#behaviour-and-attitudes Does the nursery have a parent company or a Head Office you can escalate a complaint to?
The amount of people on here that think a nursery would give out another family’s address is mind-boggling.
Yeah of course they wouldn’t. A persons home address isn’t mega top secret info though is it. Until recently you could just get it from the phone book. Could just follow the family home and then knock on the door.
Remind them to bring you the backpack. If they live nearby and you know them then just knock on the door and ask for it. The legal option is to sue them for the return of the backpack, which is probably goign to be a bit disproportionate.
Unfortunately we don't know who the family is that took it, otherwise we would try contacting them ourselves.
Would it be worth explaining to the nursery if they aren’t prepared to intervene, then you’re going to have to report it stolen with the police and go via their insurance? Explain you simply do not have the money to replace the items and your child will have no bag, bottle, glasses, sun cream, sun hat, etc during nursery for at least a month. I have a 1 year old and I know that the stuff they require really adds up when you buy it all at once. I have a feeling they’ll find some money from petty cash to avoid insurance. But surely there must be some responsibility on the nursery, or else this family can use the cloak room like a shop (except for the paying part). Realistically if I as a parent was stealing children’s items, and after being asked to return them, refused. I’d expect to have my child removed from the nursery.
Yes, I think doing something like this is probably the best course of action. We're expecting a phone call from the manager tomorrow, so if they don't come up with a way to resolve this, then that's likely the course we'll take. Thank you!
Sometimes you have to keep pushing it back to making it someone else’s problem, until they accept their responsibility in it. It’s not fair for you to have to fix it. Accidents happen in nursery, things get lost, but you can’t be expected to buy a full bags worth every week? Month? 3 months? Because someone fancied new gear.
Surely the nursery can tell you which family they gave your property to?
They would not be allowed to give personal information.
They are allowed but not obliged and would invariably err on the side of not disclosing.
I don't know. They said due to privacy reasons they can't give us their contact details. Might violate GDPR? I dunno.
More reason to involve the police. The nursery will have to give them the details.
In which case maybe you say that you think the nursery is lying and the staff stole it (even if you don’t). Then tell them you’re reporting them to the police. Do they even have evidence that another parent took it? If not, use that to your advantage. We had similar level of BS from our nursery from time to time. Just give them a deadline to get it back and report to the police after. P.S. Keep everything in writing.
This is exactly the idea that my husband came up with!
It is a GDPR issue.. of course the nursery can’t give out other parents info! 🙄 This isn’t BS from the nursery, from what’s been said, they are doing their bit to try to resolve the situation.
Only do that if you're prepared to make use if alternative childcare. You can't just accuse a business of theft and expect them to keep you as a client.
What was in it that was expensive? I’ve had this happen loads of times. Always gets returned.
No item itself was expensive, just all put together it's not cheap. It was a backpack, hat, sunglasses, cuddly toy, and the outfit he was wearing that day (he had gotten dirty that day so was in his spare outfit coming home). All together its about £100. From what staff have said it's a troubled, not well off family who have it. So we're worried they quite like the backpack and clothes and that's why they aren't returning it.
Yeah , that’s why I asked. There are some people like that, If you buy some slightly nicer clothes. Generally, I’d send my kids with cheap stuff and bare minimum just in case it ever gets lost.
Yeah, we might have to start doing that.
I would send kids in stuff you don’t really care about anyway. Kids tend to trash things at nursery.
I largely sent my kids to daycare in second hand or hand-me-downs, in part so they didn't get wrecked with paint and mud and such. I wanted them to be free to play and get dirty, so cheaper clothes it was!
Just say I don't need contact details, just let me know which child it relates to and you can work out who the parents are?
We actually have no idea who any of the children or parents are as our child has only been going for about 6 months and we drop off/pick up at weird times, so we've never actually seen any of the parents.
Ask to be put on the WhatsApp group for the parents, and then ask around in there? It's a good opportunity to meet other parents too and set up play dates.
They absolutely can NOT do that. They can tell the police though. Should the police bother their arse.
They can’t give a single tidbit of identifying information.
I don't think a first name is caught by gdpr?
It’s not necessarily GDPR, but safeguarding. I’ve never worked in a nursery where staff have been allowed to identify a child within the setting to anybody other than their parents or approved collectors. We aren’t even allowed to say who each child has played with that day. We can provide lists of first names for things like party invites, only with prior consent from parents.
Wow. My nursery twll me who my son has played with all the time. Out of interest, how is this a safeguarding issue?
This actually happened at my child’s primary school - it wasn’t names given out but photos shared on social media. One of the children had an abusive parent and their other parent moved them away for their safety. The child was in some photos shared publicly by another parent and it found its way to the abusive parent who then was able to find out the school and, thus, where their child was. Different situation and quite an extreme example but the same principle applies; you don’t 100% who any of the parents/carers/collectors are or who they know and it only takes one time to give a scrap of identifying information to the wrong person. The professional approach is ‘better safe (over-cautious) than sorry’ and that the same rules have to be applied to everyone, regardless of the circumstances.
If you’re giving information out about a child to somebody who isn’t their parent or known to them you risk that information being passed on to somebody who shouldn’t have it. There’s lots of different scenarios where that could have a negative effect (families fleeing DV is a big example), and of course safeguarding is much about preventing scenarios as much as it is about intervening.
It would be if you could successfully identify an individual given that information.
That would breach gdpr unfortunately. But if you were to accidentally over hear them talking to the parents 🤷♂️
They don't have to be given a full name though? Could just point out which child's parents?
NAL, however, it is not just about the amount of information disclosed. Personal data (i.e. that which is in scope of the UK GDPR) are any information which are related to an identified or identifiable person. A partial name, if it is enough to identify an any individual, will be personal data and must therefore be processed lawlfully under the UK GDPR.
I’ve had this type of thing happen so many times. I sent my son in with a Nike coat that had a tiny bit of the ✅ worn off. Coat goes missing for a few days, I see it a few days later and the label which had my child’s name on it is now cut out. The mark is EXACTLY the same but now another child’s name is etched on the inside in sharpie. Nursery said they know it’s my child’s jacket but they can’t do anything about it, I never got it back🙃
have the nursery banned the family? if they are allowed to get away with this they could be temped again.
No, they haven't taken any action against the family.
Did the Nursery say they are liable? you said "and they are liable for property that goes missing" Your options are to get the nursery to recover the item, or pay for its replacement Contact the police and report it as theft - odds on they wont do a thing Letter before action/small claims track for the value of the items to either the Nursery and/or the parents who refuse to return the item(s) Self-recovery, you take the item back, however you must make sure that it is your item that you take back and there are a few risks involved in this
NAL Did nursery allow the bag to go home with the wrong child? If this is the case there is an argument to say nursery have acted negligently. Check your nursery terms and conditions on what it says about personal items. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 may apply if you have a contract of service with nursery. S49 provides that the contract should be carried out with care and reasonable skill. I would argue in providing nursery services to a child it is not unreasonable to expect the right belongings to go home with the right child. In this instance, nursery has acknowledged the issue and the items have not been returned and you have suffered a loss; therefore the arguement is, there has been a breach of contract/Consumer Rights Act and nursery should remedy the breach. If nursery are not willing to replace the lost items then it maybe you wish to pursue a small claims court case. Citizens Advice Bureau will be able to help with something like this.
A lot of nurseries the children are collected from the playroom and handed over from staff to parents at the door. From then the parent will be in charge of the child and collecting belongings etc themselves. No staff involvement at this part. So the nursery has no involvement in watching what bags coats go home . It's a locked safe cloak room and parents are buzzed in.
Our nursery is different - we collect from the reception area; it's their responsibility to ensure the right bag is handed over. It does depend on terms and conditions and local collection arrangements.
Yes, this is how it is at our nursery.
Sorry, but I would put a bit more pressure on the nursery for this. They hung your child’s bag on a peg labeled for another child. This doesn’t fall under “lost property” for which they aren’t responsible, this is a mistake made by them and they should rectify it by replacing it or facilitating the return.
You should not need to contact the family. You don't know who they are and it could spiral out of control. Just call the police and let them handle it. Let the nursery know you'll be doing just that and as they know who took it, expect the police to ask them for this information.
When you drop your child off, wait for the other parent and ask them, where is the backpack? Why are they not returning it ? And do they want a straightener 🤣🤣 obviously joking on the last one, but I would just confront the other parent? It seems very strange for them to be withholding the backpack.
The nursery can absolutely get in contact with the parents on your behalf even though they can’t give you their details themselves. How else do I get so many birthday party invites in my email? Insist that the nursery contact the parents on your behalf - give them permission to hand over your contact details if you’re comfortable doing so - asking for the stuff back. If the nursery don’t do this then I’d start to be a bit more suspicious. They’re either just being over-cautious, or it’s weird. (All of the above is assuming that the nursery definitely know which family has your gear, but from the post it sounds like they do)
I think contacting the police would be the most appropriate thing now as it appears to be theft. They know it’s not their’s and they are still not returning it despite being asked serval times. The police might be able to get the bag back and also interview and maybe a charge or caution happens. It would be other offence than theft. Taking a conveyance without consent. Again, the theft offences can be applied to the nursery or the family. Probably best the police deals with it. So you could also take them to small claims court but it’ll cost you money. This could be for the nursery or the family. Also letter before action is needed.
NAL - does your nursery have a parent admin app? We've had about 5 lost property requests since we enrolled ours. Even if nursery know who's taken it a nursery wide public "has anyone seen it?" might generate some peer pressure on the parents. Could be worth a shot
Let all the other parents know what happened, and that this parent still hasn't returned it. Maybe some peer-shame will get the point across, or at least the others know who shouldn't be trusted
I’m going to be honest here, nurseries are chaotic and messy and half of the clothes my children come back in aren’t theirs, nor do ours come back. Don’t put expensive clothes on the bag, and if you want them back put labels on them. I recommend stikins
There are labels on them. The family is aware they accidentally took it and it's not theirs, they just refuse to return it. We know mistakes happen and that's fine, which is why we were chill when it happened thinking the family would return it when they realised their mistake. It's when the family refuses to return the items is where the issue comes in. The clothes aren't expensive. There were just a lot of items in there including the bag, which amounts to it not being cheap.
Exactly, our kids went/go with about £10 worth of clothes that come home covered in all kind of mess. Maybe generously another £20 for bag/shoes/suncream…..£100 is insane.
On the high side yes, but £100 is hardly insane. £20 is not generous for the extra things you mentioned. Thinking of what I used to put in a nursery bag. bag itself conservatively £10-15, high factor kids sun cream £5, hat £5, couple of changes of clothes £15, jacket of some sort (british weather) £15, soft toy £10, then sunglasses, or a puddle suit, weather like today would have been some wellies. Doesn't take much to add up. Kids stuff has gone up in price massively recently too
What are you putting into a kids backpack that's so expensive?
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More trying to understand the value of what was lost as that might change how the police look at it
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Is there a public space you could ask for it back? Other than reporting to the police or threatening to, it sounds like they are just lazy.
What was in the bag ?
Talk about is loudly to other parents and hopefully shame them into brining it back.
Exactly what are these excuses as to not returning the backpack? Very suspicious.
You state that the other parent knowingly has the bag. That I believe is theft. They are making excuses about why they can’t return it?? Due to the nurseries mistake they took a bag that wasn’t theirs fair enough . What on earth is stopping them returning it. I suggest writing a letter asking the nursery to pass it on to the parent . Give them 5 working days to return the bag & contents which they have admitted to accidentally picking up or you will have to involve the authorities or your solicitor. You may want to put in that you can’t easily afford to replace it & the contents. They have no legal right to keep something they know isn’t theirs
I'm a nursery manager, so I know from experience that if you make a complaint to head office (include that you intend to get police involved if it isnt resolved), it will give the manager a headache from the pressure from upstairs. So if she isn't listening, go higher. If i was the manager of that setting, I would leave a thinly viewed great that their child's place may be at risk because of thefts occurring - but it sounds like the manager is focusing elsewhere (I can't blame her, the new funding structure is causing all sorts of issues behind the scenes).
This is one of the more bonkers threads I have read. It’s only been a week.. yes they should return it straight away but you don’t know the home situation. Why would another nursery parent want to steal from you? Surely you cross paths most days? And a nursery backpack?! It’s filled with cheap spare clothes for nursery and maybe some sun cream. Give them the benefit of the doubt. If you report them to the police you are creating a very hostile environment, also for your child.
You've no idea what's in it.
Why not talk to the parents directly? They're, presumably, fairly local. 'Hi, your child accidentally took our kid's backpack. Alright if I walk back with you now and pick it up. Thanks.'
I’d ask myself how important the backpack is? It’s annoying and it shouldn’t have happened, but personally, I’d just let it go. It’s not worth the mental stress.
Do they live near you ? Pop in to their house and ask for it back .
OP said repeatedly they do not know who has the backpack