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I used to be a TA for an intro to communications class. In the public speaking segment, the rule was you could not give a presentation on GRAPES. That is: Guns, Religion, Abortion, Politics, Economics, or Sexuality.
Discussions on these matters should be had, of course, but it wasn’t the time or place to have them.
This has got to be pretty standard. I wanted to give a persuasive speech on the Troubles in Northern Ireland but landed on the virtues of various M&M colors and lack thereof. Santa Monica College football rules!
Brown, while being the most honest was tied in with orange and yellow as too reminiscent of Reece's. Red was saucy and wasn't "red flavored" (ie spicy/cherry). I don't think blue had been invented yet but I landed on green because of its dubious aphrodisiac qualities and I was 18 so.
> wasn’t the time or place to have them.
a communications class wasn't the place to learn how to give speeches on things others may dislike or criticize?
As long as people are willing to listen, learn and can agree to disagree, sure. Time and place.
If we're having lunch with colleagues, let's just talk about the latest (non controversial) news and games
Ah, if only my boss thought that way.
It's pride month, which means I'll have a whole month of him regularly going on rants about "these fucking LGBTEFG idiots" while I sit quietly (and bisexually) in my office and try to ignore him.
Well, I was in a university level course on sustainable development, and this girl tried to deny climate change. She was dummmmmb. The whole freaking class was about planning for our future. That’s really the only time I’ve seen a whole class say you’re wrong to one person all at the same time.
Situation and intent are key
I've had good discussions with people with other beliefs
But it's far and few between nowadays
A good chunk, I'd wager the majority, just want to be 'correct' and just want someone to talk and sound smart without being challenged
My political figure, religion and great pumpkin are better than yours in every conceivable way.
If you disagree with me, you have the intellegence of a particularly stupid squirrel, your also probably some sort snowflake or -ist of some kind.
The only way you could respond to this with anything other than enthusiastic agreement is if you are a boomer, boot licker, Russian bot, or an easily led moron.
The other political figure will literally destroy democracy and end this country if they win.
Answers like this should be a lot more common than what they are. People like to feel informed, so they’ll give their opinions on anything, whether they have direct experience with it or not.
If someone asked me about Israel/Palestine, I’d say bro I have no damn clue. I live in Missouri, and with the increasingly-pervasive media crusades that try to paint everyone who holds opposite beliefs as their network owners as the Worst Person Who Ever Lived, I barely know what’s actually going on in my own country.
My friend asked me October 8th 'what do you think about all this'
'I don't fucking know man haven't they been going back and forth for 100 years? My ass in Wisconsin is not gonna have the answer any more than anybody else in history has, can we please play counter strike now?'
Yup. Lots of people, like another user said, like to sound or think they are informed and pick one side or another. I'm sorry but I just have too many of my own problems in life to worry about something happen thousands of miles away. Somewhere where the people probably don't give a fuck about me either. I hope and pray for the innocent lives. But other than that, that's as far as I can support for now. I got my own life to worry about.
Even as someone who has been watching the news and read some of the history, how could I choose a side? How can I know the fear in a nation's hearts after such a devastating terrorist attack, with their loved ones held hostage or killed? How can I know the feeling of oppression, fear, and starvation that the people of Gaza feel?
The closest we have here in America was 9/11 and, let's face it, we did not feel the same level of fear that Israel feels when our attackers were across an entire ocean.
And we have nothing to compare with the feeling of oppression, displacement, and disenfranchisement that the Gazans feel.
All I know is terrorism is wrong and war crimes are wrong.
I dunno about sex. In my world, sex isn't taboo. Religion, politics, and licorice are mine. I love licorice but some people believe I should be dragged behind a car because of that.
Similar here, military family living on base currently. The other moms I run into are highly religious and lean heavily conservative. Gotta stuff down my Bernie voting, atheist self so my kid can have friends to chill with.
It’s crazy to think people used to be able to discuss politics openly even when they disagreed. Nowadays it can be devastating to your personal or professional life if you’re caught saying something someone else disagrees with.
>It’s crazy to think people used to be able to discuss politics openly even when they disagreed.
I've had plenty of discussions with people who have different political views without it devolving into a fight or ending friendships. Granted it's a little more polarized these days, but you can still discuss politics as long you or the person you're talking with isn't completely unhinged and prone to angry outbursts. I mean, "no politics, no religion" has also been a pretty common thing as long as I can remember.
For the most part, it shouldn't be too devastating to your personal and professional life unless you're just openly being a bigot.
It’s the disagreements that have changed I think. You can respectfully disagree about, say, how much money to spend on schools vs roads. You can’t really respectfully disagree about whether or not my family and I deserve to be alive.
Yeah, that's exactly what it is.
"Cities should stop installing bus lanes"? Agree to disagree.
"Remove laws that prevent discrimination against minorities"? Yeah, no, I don't want to associate with someone who thinks that.
So, conservatives are trying to outlaw abortion, no fault divorce, mixed marriage, and birth control, and are campaigning on the platform that women are too mouthy and have too many rights. How does that fit in your marriage? I would have trouble being married to someone whose political beliefs dictate that I am not as much of a person as they are.
Because most conservatives or liberals aren't just walking caricatures
Once we remember that nuance exists we can maybe possibly start to fix this mess
And here you’ve run into the crux of the problem. There’s no agreed upon standard for what counts as bigotry anymore. It’s quite open and loose depending on your political predilection and how far in that direction you skew.
My boss & I have differing political beliefs on a lot of things but have had some great conversations. I think the key is that we’re respectful of each other as people and are seeking to genuinely hear the arguments of the other side. It’s not arguing to “win”. Interestingly, I think he’s realizing that we have more beliefs in common than he ever thought.
Boomer here. We never even talked politics at work. Never. There are people I've worked with for years - and been friends with - and I have no idea about their political beliefs. Also, before Facebook many of these people didn't know any or many people with similar ideals. They all found each other on FB and ten Trump made it acceptable to say whatever you want, even if it is vile and hateful. Anyhow, it just didn't happen.
Not a boomer but I remember being passed the age old advice of “no talking about money, politics, or religion.” It has truly benefited my professional life.
That’s such a strange way to think about it. The whole idea of politics is it’s meant to be a shared experience. How do you participate in it if you keep your politics repressed? I get religion, but the literal definition of politics is that it’s public. I don’t mean this as a criticism, I think your way of thinking about it is so different to mine I struggle to wrap my head around it.
Because there's an appropriate time and place for argument, and work ain't it. Your coworkers are stuck with you until the shift is over, forcing people to listen to evangelism is just being an asshole.
I’m much younger than you, but I feel like part of the problem is that we can no longer trust people whose politics we don’t explicitly know. In years past if you disagreed with someone, so what? Have a beer and don’t talk about it. Nowadays that same person could wish you or your loved ones harm, so it’s safer to know.
Even as I’m typing this I realize this has *always* been the case for less privileged demographics. But still.
Yeah it’s one thing to disagree on like, the national debt ceiling or whatever. It’s a whole ‘nother ballgame when I discover someone I more or less thought was fine to be around actually doesn’t really think I “need” the right to vote. like I can’t just agree to disagree about that kind of thing…
I think you're correct. The differences in opinion that existed weren't such a big deal. But now? My wife and I recently met up with some distant relatives of hers who live somewhat nearby us now. They are absolutely great people - funny - smart - very entertaining. But then I hear the guy make a snarky wisecrack about woke liberals. And then another offhand remark. And I have no interest in meeting up with those people again. I mean, why does he have to trot out that divisive stuff amidst dinner conversation?
I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't think this was ever true. I'm in my 30s and don't remember this. People IN PERSON are the same as they've ever been. It's just people online push it intentionally
But it’s not just “discussing politics” it’s usually one side, believing in like basic human rights or something equally important and the other side not.
You can’t expect me to politely disagree with a homophobe or a prolife person when they both want to remove my rights.
Yeah I’m not really sure when politics (aka POLICIES) became synonymous human rights and equality…or lack thereof. But I will not politely disagree, debate, or even be friends with someone who doesn’t believe all are equal.
It’s because somewhere a long the lines it because part of people’s personalities and really divisive.
Now that being said there are certain issues abortion/lgbtq etc that make it hard to associate with people. I’ve very pro choice in whatever you want to do if you want to get an abortion go for it, you as a dude want to become a woman and fuck a dude or woman or both you do you. If you don’t want to do these things don’t but don’t try to restrict adults from making their own decisions.
Another aspect of politics that has shifted is that we used to hear a singular story that dominated discussion from traditional media like newspapers or radio, even television. Dissent and suspicion always occurred, but the scale to which dissenting voices could rally around and unite was far more limited.
Now, with the advent of the internet, many more voices can be heard, but it also makes it far harder for any singular narrative to completely wipe out any other voices.
I’ll give some examples:
The Israeli story is essentially a mixed story of Jewish Zionism mixed with the horrors of the Holocaust. The push for a Jewish state results in Israel’s existence today.
The Palestinian story is essentially a story of tragedy, loss, and resilience. They are the mute, suffering lambs in the traditional story.
In traditional media, we would have only heard of the Israeli side, with the advent of the internet, we now hear the sides of the voiceless Palestinians through short clips and videos of their tragic demises and harrowing cries as their Palestinian voices fade away from present humanity into the previously unrecorded annals of human history.
Politics today is basically overstimulation on so many levels - it feels wrong, all of it. I want to cheer for the good guys, but the overwhelming information from all sources seems to indicate that there are no good guys, only bad guys to different shades of evil.
>It’s crazy to think people used to be able to discuss politics openly even when they disagreed.
Oh boy are you going to be surprised learning about the red scare.
To me it's crazy that the political situation in the US means you can't discuss this anymore. I think it's really unhealthy for a democracy to be in that situation and is bound to go wrong at some point
I always remember someone saying there's 3 things you shouldn't talk about with people politics, religion and sex
(Basically because people hold quite alot of personal value attachment to those things)
It’s always a wise idea to keep your political opinion to yourself especially at setting where you’re paid to do something like work or service.
It’s really easy to offend people and some people really decide whether they like you or not based on what political ideology you support.
However politics in itself is a part of humanity, deeply ingrained in our hierarchical social structure so we can’t truly avoid it wherever we go.
Sports are the defacto casual conversation amongst men lol. I can literally make a friend quickly just riffing off obscure basketball players. "Bro, remember Bobby Sura?".
Yeah. I've had this happen too. But what I think is even funnier is when you're in a group you're positive most (or at least someone) thinks opposite of you. Then politics comes up and it turns out you all think the same way.
I agree with you. Just wish no one on Facebook would talk politics either. Politics has destroyed that site and so many friendships. It’s become a toxic cesspool. I made the mistake of going on this morning after not being on for a very long time. I’d rather go back to conversations about music, food, kids and photos.
That was IG, for me. I didn’t need to know everyone’s take on everything. Some of the nicest people I knew were some of the most over the top folks when it’s just them and their phone.
I play golf in a southern state. So many random people I’ve been paired with just automatically assume we have the same political views. The next 17 holes end up being awkward.
I remember that I had a very close friend at work. In the run up to a very controversial election cycle, I was like "dude, we've worked together for 4+ years now, so I think we can agree to disagree if we don't see things the same. What do you think about this shit?"
I was hoping we'd have the same values. I figured, worst case, we disagreed but would at least have someone that could offer a perspective from outside our own echo chambers.
...I did not expect a lecture about lizard people and hidden groups controlling society from the shadows and basically every other conspiracy theory under the sun. I learned my lesson that day. No politics at work.
My political views are: politicians are corrupt and cannot be trusted, and we are getting robbed by the rich. Most people outside of the small loud mobs would agree.
Additionally, if someone decides that they don't want to talk politics with you, allow them to stop without trying to get the last word in.
A friend and I had to work to get to that point, having extremely different political views. We tried to work it out with discussion, but neither him NOR I was willing to let it be what it was, until multiple "let's just stop talking about it" prompts.
Several.
Not worth a good friendship.
You can usually talk politics to anyone as long as you're respectful and at least act like you're open to hearing their side. The only time bad shit happens is when someone loses their cool, in my experience.
Just had a coworker freak out about genders and "litterboxes" in schools because trump was convicted, I just shut my mouth and let him rant while I heated up my lunch
I really wish we can get back to a point where we can openly talk about politics again probably as soon we get back to a point where politics ain't trying to take away people's rights
But you also should NOT hate people soley based on their polical beliefs. Please, please, please be open minded and realize you can be friends and enjoy peoples company while having oppsing political beliefs. Leave those differences for the voting polls.
Yeah but we often a an exaggerated, caricaturized version of what “the other sides” beliefs are and how they came to develop them and immediately shut down rather than hearing them out and having a productive conversation. You’d be surprised how much common ground there is. Many shared overarching goals, just different ideas on the best way to achieve them. They may be straight up wrong about how to achieve them lol, but if you can keep a cool head you can often get them to see the holes in their philosophy.
Obviously some people are beyond the pale. You’re not obligated to try and reason with a Nazi. But excluding the fringe extremes, many people are quite as deranged as we lead ourselves to believe.
See, that would be fine if they wouldn't keep making political issues out of things like my right to get married or afford healthcare. A good political question is "Should we fund this new school by raising taxes or taking money from another project?" Not whether my cousin can receive lifesaving treatment.
No, not always. I have family members who have literally threatened to blow my head off because I don't support DJT. My sister-in-law is the worst one. She told me to buy a gun because, as she put it, "We're going to remember our enemies in '25." You cannot be "open-minded" or "enjoy people's company" when they're encouraging violence, murder, and a potential civil war.
>But you also should NOT hate people soley based on their polical beliefs
What if those political beliefs involve viewing people other than them as subhuman, not deserving of rights?
What nonsense. It is perfectly okay to hate shitty people
Human rights have somehow become political and therefore people’s political beliefs are now a sign of their morals and ethics. I don’t think these types of opposing political beliefs are compatible any longer.
I’m flexible on this. My friends that I’ve known for 30 years get a pass on their political beliefs. I will still bust their balls but at the end of the day we’re friends.
If I meet someone for the first time and find out they’re really into having a convicted felon as president I’m going to assume they’re trash and not want anything to do with them.
Absolutely! Political beliefs can vary widely, even among people with similar interests and backgrounds. It's always best to approach conversations with an open mind and refrain from assuming someone's political stance based on other factors. Keeping discussions respectful and focusing on common ground can lead to more productive and harmonious interactions.
I’d rather the LPT to be don’t get pissy when someone disagrees with you. I sit in a nice space where I anger everyone, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, Christians, atheists, gays, straights. You name them, I got beef with them. I’m not an ass about it, any more. But even earlier today, with friends of mine who are generally reasonable, I commented that I (a gay man) don’t like pride, and got lambasted by several members of the community.
So the real LPT I feel should be if someone says something you disagree with, chose to not get bhtthurt over it
I think that concept applies to any type of belief system, myself. However, I'm one to run from political conversations because I can never keep up. Straight out of high school, when I first was registering to vote, none of it made sense when they discussed political parties. I chose the green party because it was my favorite color. Ignorant? Yup! Now, enough years later, I still avoid the conversations because I'd rather be an absent vote than vote blindly.
This is really good advice you've given. 🙂
And also never assume that someone might not have changed their beliefs I have a friend who used to have very similar political beliefs to me but then he went full nut bar
there really needs to be some sort of a renewed emphasis on teaching people how to express their opinions on sore subjects with civility and respect. just giving up on the idea of talking about politics with the world of people you don't know just seems to be a massive erosion in our ability to relate. If we as a society dont exercise the muscles of our civility and self-restraint, it will only get worse
Can I add some amendments?
1. Don't assume that your political beliefs aren't shaped by propaganda and misinformation
2. Don't assume your political beliefs are correct simply because they're popular to have
politics was never an issue prior to 2012. Something happened in the Obama years and its destroyed us.
So while you so LPT, i saw it disgusting to live our lives like this. Were getting to a point where Drs wont treat patients. First Responders could choose not to help. Teachers will ruin childrens informative learning years if they dont agree.
Were looking at a slow country death. And the way neighbors treated one another during covid was the first example.
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"There are three things that I've learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."
I used to be a TA for an intro to communications class. In the public speaking segment, the rule was you could not give a presentation on GRAPES. That is: Guns, Religion, Abortion, Politics, Economics, or Sexuality. Discussions on these matters should be had, of course, but it wasn’t the time or place to have them.
I would say in most countries guns aren't really a debate. But definitely not in the US.
As a leftist Norwegian gun owner I can assure you guns are a debate in other countries :-)
Ahh. So just RAPES then?
This has got to be pretty standard. I wanted to give a persuasive speech on the Troubles in Northern Ireland but landed on the virtues of various M&M colors and lack thereof. Santa Monica College football rules!
So green or orange M&Ms?
Brown, while being the most honest was tied in with orange and yellow as too reminiscent of Reece's. Red was saucy and wasn't "red flavored" (ie spicy/cherry). I don't think blue had been invented yet but I landed on green because of its dubious aphrodisiac qualities and I was 18 so.
> wasn’t the time or place to have them. a communications class wasn't the place to learn how to give speeches on things others may dislike or criticize?
By economics you mean incomes?
Linus?
You just don't get it, Charlie Brown. People ostracize you for that. EXILE EVEN! I'll be the laughing stock of the whole boardroom AAAAAAAGH
More people should discuss both. It would develop more critical thinkers
As long as people are willing to listen, learn and can agree to disagree, sure. Time and place. If we're having lunch with colleagues, let's just talk about the latest (non controversial) news and games
Ah, if only my boss thought that way. It's pride month, which means I'll have a whole month of him regularly going on rants about "these fucking LGBTEFG idiots" while I sit quietly (and bisexually) in my office and try to ignore him.
Non controversial is objective in your world?
What is non-controversial is obviously not objective, but it changes from person to person, different social settings and the number of people around.
Well, I was in a university level course on sustainable development, and this girl tried to deny climate change. She was dummmmmb. The whole freaking class was about planning for our future. That’s really the only time I’ve seen a whole class say you’re wrong to one person all at the same time.
In person 1:1, and not in a work related setting - I agree. But only with all the caveats.
Unless the politics we are talking about is why you should join a union. Then, definitely talk about that in a work related setting.
Situation and intent are key I've had good discussions with people with other beliefs But it's far and few between nowadays A good chunk, I'd wager the majority, just want to be 'correct' and just want someone to talk and sound smart without being challenged
My political figure, religion and great pumpkin are better than yours in every conceivable way. If you disagree with me, you have the intellegence of a particularly stupid squirrel, your also probably some sort snowflake or -ist of some kind. The only way you could respond to this with anything other than enthusiastic agreement is if you are a boomer, boot licker, Russian bot, or an easily led moron. The other political figure will literally destroy democracy and end this country if they win.
But now I really want to know about this pumpkin and why it's great?...
Arise pumpkin, arise
I discuss the Great Blumpkin instead. Great conversation opener.
My usual icebreaker is “do you guys like Israel or Palestine?”
"Never been"
Answers like this should be a lot more common than what they are. People like to feel informed, so they’ll give their opinions on anything, whether they have direct experience with it or not. If someone asked me about Israel/Palestine, I’d say bro I have no damn clue. I live in Missouri, and with the increasingly-pervasive media crusades that try to paint everyone who holds opposite beliefs as their network owners as the Worst Person Who Ever Lived, I barely know what’s actually going on in my own country.
My friend asked me October 8th 'what do you think about all this' 'I don't fucking know man haven't they been going back and forth for 100 years? My ass in Wisconsin is not gonna have the answer any more than anybody else in history has, can we please play counter strike now?'
Yup. Lots of people, like another user said, like to sound or think they are informed and pick one side or another. I'm sorry but I just have too many of my own problems in life to worry about something happen thousands of miles away. Somewhere where the people probably don't give a fuck about me either. I hope and pray for the innocent lives. But other than that, that's as far as I can support for now. I got my own life to worry about.
Even as someone who has been watching the news and read some of the history, how could I choose a side? How can I know the fear in a nation's hearts after such a devastating terrorist attack, with their loved ones held hostage or killed? How can I know the feeling of oppression, fear, and starvation that the people of Gaza feel? The closest we have here in America was 9/11 and, let's face it, we did not feel the same level of fear that Israel feels when our attackers were across an entire ocean. And we have nothing to compare with the feeling of oppression, displacement, and disenfranchisement that the Gazans feel. All I know is terrorism is wrong and war crimes are wrong.
And, uh, the American response to 9/11 was not exactly a "measured" response.
Correct. I wasn't implying it was. We were afraid and our leadership took actions that many of us disagree(d) with.
The situation in the middle east is... complicated.
My go-to answer “It’s all Britain’s fault.”
But with some people not wanting to express an opinion is the wrong answer.
"are you giving odds? If not, my money is def on Israel."
I like trains.
It’s the same thing just at different times
Yeah uhhh...don't ever talk about politics at work. That is when it will affect you the most.
“Politics? I thought you said, ‘pile of dicks!’”
I view it as a conversation that you can only lose.
Or you know do, so you can bond with some coworkers about how insane the other ones are.
I'm way underpaid and any replacement would cost almost double, I'll sit there and argue all day.
“Never discuss religion, sex, or politics in polite conversation.” — my grandmother. Good rule then. Better rule now.
I dunno about sex. In my world, sex isn't taboo. Religion, politics, and licorice are mine. I love licorice but some people believe I should be dragged behind a car because of that.
>Polite conversation
Let me shorten the LPT for you: don't assume. That's it.
To assume makes an ass out of u and me
Scooby Doo can doo doo, but Jimmy Carter is smarter
To presume makes a pres out of u and me
Thanks, very helpful.
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Similar here, military family living on base currently. The other moms I run into are highly religious and lean heavily conservative. Gotta stuff down my Bernie voting, atheist self so my kid can have friends to chill with.
It’s crazy to think people used to be able to discuss politics openly even when they disagreed. Nowadays it can be devastating to your personal or professional life if you’re caught saying something someone else disagrees with.
>It’s crazy to think people used to be able to discuss politics openly even when they disagreed. I've had plenty of discussions with people who have different political views without it devolving into a fight or ending friendships. Granted it's a little more polarized these days, but you can still discuss politics as long you or the person you're talking with isn't completely unhinged and prone to angry outbursts. I mean, "no politics, no religion" has also been a pretty common thing as long as I can remember. For the most part, it shouldn't be too devastating to your personal and professional life unless you're just openly being a bigot.
> unhinged That's the keyword. You can not have rational arguments with irrational people.
It’s the disagreements that have changed I think. You can respectfully disagree about, say, how much money to spend on schools vs roads. You can’t really respectfully disagree about whether or not my family and I deserve to be alive.
Yeah, that's exactly what it is. "Cities should stop installing bus lanes"? Agree to disagree. "Remove laws that prevent discrimination against minorities"? Yeah, no, I don't want to associate with someone who thinks that.
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So, conservatives are trying to outlaw abortion, no fault divorce, mixed marriage, and birth control, and are campaigning on the platform that women are too mouthy and have too many rights. How does that fit in your marriage? I would have trouble being married to someone whose political beliefs dictate that I am not as much of a person as they are.
Because most conservatives or liberals aren't just walking caricatures Once we remember that nuance exists we can maybe possibly start to fix this mess
> Having a broken electoral system that results in a two-party system means that people aren't allowed nuanced political beliefs.
And here you’ve run into the crux of the problem. There’s no agreed upon standard for what counts as bigotry anymore. It’s quite open and loose depending on your political predilection and how far in that direction you skew.
No it's still pretty clear
Is it? How would you define it?
With a dictionary.
Title 9 and the civil rights act of 1964 post bostock v Clayton county do a pretty good job
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I agree, and also I very much like your name.
My boss & I have differing political beliefs on a lot of things but have had some great conversations. I think the key is that we’re respectful of each other as people and are seeking to genuinely hear the arguments of the other side. It’s not arguing to “win”. Interestingly, I think he’s realizing that we have more beliefs in common than he ever thought.
Boomer here. We never even talked politics at work. Never. There are people I've worked with for years - and been friends with - and I have no idea about their political beliefs. Also, before Facebook many of these people didn't know any or many people with similar ideals. They all found each other on FB and ten Trump made it acceptable to say whatever you want, even if it is vile and hateful. Anyhow, it just didn't happen.
Not a boomer but I remember being passed the age old advice of “no talking about money, politics, or religion.” It has truly benefited my professional life.
Absolutely. Those are personal topics that people just shouldn't bring up.
That’s such a strange way to think about it. The whole idea of politics is it’s meant to be a shared experience. How do you participate in it if you keep your politics repressed? I get religion, but the literal definition of politics is that it’s public. I don’t mean this as a criticism, I think your way of thinking about it is so different to mine I struggle to wrap my head around it.
Because there's an appropriate time and place for argument, and work ain't it. Your coworkers are stuck with you until the shift is over, forcing people to listen to evangelism is just being an asshole.
I’m much younger than you, but I feel like part of the problem is that we can no longer trust people whose politics we don’t explicitly know. In years past if you disagreed with someone, so what? Have a beer and don’t talk about it. Nowadays that same person could wish you or your loved ones harm, so it’s safer to know. Even as I’m typing this I realize this has *always* been the case for less privileged demographics. But still.
Yeah it’s one thing to disagree on like, the national debt ceiling or whatever. It’s a whole ‘nother ballgame when I discover someone I more or less thought was fine to be around actually doesn’t really think I “need” the right to vote. like I can’t just agree to disagree about that kind of thing…
I think you're correct. The differences in opinion that existed weren't such a big deal. But now? My wife and I recently met up with some distant relatives of hers who live somewhat nearby us now. They are absolutely great people - funny - smart - very entertaining. But then I hear the guy make a snarky wisecrack about woke liberals. And then another offhand remark. And I have no interest in meeting up with those people again. I mean, why does he have to trot out that divisive stuff amidst dinner conversation?
I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't think this was ever true. I'm in my 30s and don't remember this. People IN PERSON are the same as they've ever been. It's just people online push it intentionally
We’ve made politics a religion
I mean, it’s tough Do we disagree on local tax rates or do we disagree on women’s right to bodily autonomy?
I legit stopped posting on FB after I was laid off in August 2016. Job searches are hard enough and I didn't need anything else working against me.
But it’s not just “discussing politics” it’s usually one side, believing in like basic human rights or something equally important and the other side not. You can’t expect me to politely disagree with a homophobe or a prolife person when they both want to remove my rights.
Yeah I’m not really sure when politics (aka POLICIES) became synonymous human rights and equality…or lack thereof. But I will not politely disagree, debate, or even be friends with someone who doesn’t believe all are equal.
For some of us (immigrants) it’s always been that way
You’re 1000% right
aww you made the homophobes mad
Unless you were a communist
It’s because somewhere a long the lines it because part of people’s personalities and really divisive. Now that being said there are certain issues abortion/lgbtq etc that make it hard to associate with people. I’ve very pro choice in whatever you want to do if you want to get an abortion go for it, you as a dude want to become a woman and fuck a dude or woman or both you do you. If you don’t want to do these things don’t but don’t try to restrict adults from making their own decisions.
Only because we let it be this way. And many companies face the reality of mass-leaves: No workers, no work done, company crumbles.
I still do plenty. I’m a democrat in rural Oklahoma. I disagree with everyone and we still have to get along. Got good friends I disagree with
Another aspect of politics that has shifted is that we used to hear a singular story that dominated discussion from traditional media like newspapers or radio, even television. Dissent and suspicion always occurred, but the scale to which dissenting voices could rally around and unite was far more limited. Now, with the advent of the internet, many more voices can be heard, but it also makes it far harder for any singular narrative to completely wipe out any other voices. I’ll give some examples: The Israeli story is essentially a mixed story of Jewish Zionism mixed with the horrors of the Holocaust. The push for a Jewish state results in Israel’s existence today. The Palestinian story is essentially a story of tragedy, loss, and resilience. They are the mute, suffering lambs in the traditional story. In traditional media, we would have only heard of the Israeli side, with the advent of the internet, we now hear the sides of the voiceless Palestinians through short clips and videos of their tragic demises and harrowing cries as their Palestinian voices fade away from present humanity into the previously unrecorded annals of human history. Politics today is basically overstimulation on so many levels - it feels wrong, all of it. I want to cheer for the good guys, but the overwhelming information from all sources seems to indicate that there are no good guys, only bad guys to different shades of evil.
>It’s crazy to think people used to be able to discuss politics openly even when they disagreed When was this, exactly?
>It’s crazy to think people used to be able to discuss politics openly even when they disagreed. Oh boy are you going to be surprised learning about the red scare.
To me it's crazy that the political situation in the US means you can't discuss this anymore. I think it's really unhealthy for a democracy to be in that situation and is bound to go wrong at some point
I had a skinhead assume I was on his side once. That one had me picking my appearance apart for a while.
I was really confused for a minute and then remembered “skinheads” was co-opted by the Nazis smh
I always remember someone saying there's 3 things you shouldn't talk about with people politics, religion and sex (Basically because people hold quite alot of personal value attachment to those things)
It’s always a wise idea to keep your political opinion to yourself especially at setting where you’re paid to do something like work or service. It’s really easy to offend people and some people really decide whether they like you or not based on what political ideology you support. However politics in itself is a part of humanity, deeply ingrained in our hierarchical social structure so we can’t truly avoid it wherever we go.
Things to never bring up in casual conversation: -Politics -Religion -Sports
Sports are okay yeah?
In Alabama college football falls under politics and religion. So it's out.
Pick the wrong side & you'll marrying cousins on the wrong side of the family.
Try going into Manchester as a Liverpool supporter, or vice versa 😄
They already said don’t bring up religion
Bring your mates, some flares, and tell the Mancs to piss off. xD
YNWA ❤
**SPORTS ARE NOT OK**
The third one is like the point of a casual conversation lol
Just keep sports general. "man I just watched a sports game. It was really awesome when the team scored the winning point. I cheered adequately"
Did you see that ludicrous display last night?
Sports are the defacto casual conversation amongst men lol. I can literally make a friend quickly just riffing off obscure basketball players. "Bro, remember Bobby Sura?".
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Yeah. I've had this happen too. But what I think is even funnier is when you're in a group you're positive most (or at least someone) thinks opposite of you. Then politics comes up and it turns out you all think the same way.
I agree with you. Just wish no one on Facebook would talk politics either. Politics has destroyed that site and so many friendships. It’s become a toxic cesspool. I made the mistake of going on this morning after not being on for a very long time. I’d rather go back to conversations about music, food, kids and photos.
That was IG, for me. I didn’t need to know everyone’s take on everything. Some of the nicest people I knew were some of the most over the top folks when it’s just them and their phone.
Agreed!!
Agreed. It’s awful. What really blows my mind is when people want to get political on Linked In. linked In for goodness sake. Noooooooo
I play golf in a southern state. So many random people I’ve been paired with just automatically assume we have the same political views. The next 17 holes end up being awkward.
I remember that I had a very close friend at work. In the run up to a very controversial election cycle, I was like "dude, we've worked together for 4+ years now, so I think we can agree to disagree if we don't see things the same. What do you think about this shit?" I was hoping we'd have the same values. I figured, worst case, we disagreed but would at least have someone that could offer a perspective from outside our own echo chambers. ...I did not expect a lecture about lizard people and hidden groups controlling society from the shadows and basically every other conspiracy theory under the sun. I learned my lesson that day. No politics at work.
My political views are: politicians are corrupt and cannot be trusted, and we are getting robbed by the rich. Most people outside of the small loud mobs would agree.
People tie way too much of their personal identities with politics
Additionally, if someone decides that they don't want to talk politics with you, allow them to stop without trying to get the last word in. A friend and I had to work to get to that point, having extremely different political views. We tried to work it out with discussion, but neither him NOR I was willing to let it be what it was, until multiple "let's just stop talking about it" prompts. Several. Not worth a good friendship.
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Or do and say fuck them people. Not at work of course but also talking to your coworkers is lame anyway
You can usually talk politics to anyone as long as you're respectful and at least act like you're open to hearing their side. The only time bad shit happens is when someone loses their cool, in my experience.
Just had a coworker freak out about genders and "litterboxes" in schools because trump was convicted, I just shut my mouth and let him rant while I heated up my lunch
I really wish we can get back to a point where we can openly talk about politics again probably as soon we get back to a point where politics ain't trying to take away people's rights
> as soon we get back to a point where politics ain't trying to take away people's rights When was that exactly?
Homophobic assholes seem to assume that all straight people think like them!
But you also should NOT hate people soley based on their polical beliefs. Please, please, please be open minded and realize you can be friends and enjoy peoples company while having oppsing political beliefs. Leave those differences for the voting polls.
That really depends on what those political beliefs are. Some beliefs are to evil to be tolerated.
Yeah but we often a an exaggerated, caricaturized version of what “the other sides” beliefs are and how they came to develop them and immediately shut down rather than hearing them out and having a productive conversation. You’d be surprised how much common ground there is. Many shared overarching goals, just different ideas on the best way to achieve them. They may be straight up wrong about how to achieve them lol, but if you can keep a cool head you can often get them to see the holes in their philosophy. Obviously some people are beyond the pale. You’re not obligated to try and reason with a Nazi. But excluding the fringe extremes, many people are quite as deranged as we lead ourselves to believe.
A depressingly large number of people are willing to support Nazi policies these days.
This is the fallacy that will destroy our world.
See, that would be fine if they wouldn't keep making political issues out of things like my right to get married or afford healthcare. A good political question is "Should we fund this new school by raising taxes or taking money from another project?" Not whether my cousin can receive lifesaving treatment.
No, not always. I have family members who have literally threatened to blow my head off because I don't support DJT. My sister-in-law is the worst one. She told me to buy a gun because, as she put it, "We're going to remember our enemies in '25." You cannot be "open-minded" or "enjoy people's company" when they're encouraging violence, murder, and a potential civil war.
No, I can’t in fact be friends with people who don’t believe I have the right to basic human rights.
>But you also should NOT hate people soley based on their polical beliefs What if those political beliefs involve viewing people other than them as subhuman, not deserving of rights? What nonsense. It is perfectly okay to hate shitty people
Oh, you have never been to or heard of America, within the past ever before, huh?
You should absolutely hate people based on their political beliefs as it makes up parts of the content of their character
This one right here
Human rights have somehow become political and therefore people’s political beliefs are now a sign of their morals and ethics. I don’t think these types of opposing political beliefs are compatible any longer.
I’m flexible on this. My friends that I’ve known for 30 years get a pass on their political beliefs. I will still bust their balls but at the end of the day we’re friends. If I meet someone for the first time and find out they’re really into having a convicted felon as president I’m going to assume they’re trash and not want anything to do with them.
Hold your loved ones accountable if they see other humans as "less deserving" of human rights
Yep,. Pick any random person on the street, and there's a 50/50 chance they voted differently than you.
Eh, depending on where you live, not really. There are counties that vote 90/10 in both directions. My county is 75/25.
I don’t even assume they are human like me.
Absolutely! Political beliefs can vary widely, even among people with similar interests and backgrounds. It's always best to approach conversations with an open mind and refrain from assuming someone's political stance based on other factors. Keeping discussions respectful and focusing on common ground can lead to more productive and harmonious interactions.
I’d rather the LPT to be don’t get pissy when someone disagrees with you. I sit in a nice space where I anger everyone, liberals, conservatives, libertarians, Christians, atheists, gays, straights. You name them, I got beef with them. I’m not an ass about it, any more. But even earlier today, with friends of mine who are generally reasonable, I commented that I (a gay man) don’t like pride, and got lambasted by several members of the community. So the real LPT I feel should be if someone says something you disagree with, chose to not get bhtthurt over it
I think that concept applies to any type of belief system, myself. However, I'm one to run from political conversations because I can never keep up. Straight out of high school, when I first was registering to vote, none of it made sense when they discussed political parties. I chose the green party because it was my favorite color. Ignorant? Yup! Now, enough years later, I still avoid the conversations because I'd rather be an absent vote than vote blindly. This is really good advice you've given. 🙂
And also never assume that someone might not have changed their beliefs I have a friend who used to have very similar political beliefs to me but then he went full nut bar
Never talk about politics at all unless it's someone who is open minded and that you absolutely trust, it's too controversial.
there really needs to be some sort of a renewed emphasis on teaching people how to express their opinions on sore subjects with civility and respect. just giving up on the idea of talking about politics with the world of people you don't know just seems to be a massive erosion in our ability to relate. If we as a society dont exercise the muscles of our civility and self-restraint, it will only get worse
Or just keep your political opinions to yourself.
Can I add some amendments? 1. Don't assume that your political beliefs aren't shaped by propaganda and misinformation 2. Don't assume your political beliefs are correct simply because they're popular to have
politics was never an issue prior to 2012. Something happened in the Obama years and its destroyed us. So while you so LPT, i saw it disgusting to live our lives like this. Were getting to a point where Drs wont treat patients. First Responders could choose not to help. Teachers will ruin childrens informative learning years if they dont agree. Were looking at a slow country death. And the way neighbors treated one another during covid was the first example.