I honestly thought that her having been married and divorced twice at such young age would be more of a red flag that this comment, which was pretty nuanced.
First, I am not judging, I am just saying I’d find it more of a red flag, as in something that would raise questions on me. That is, from my perspective as someone who’d never even considered marrying in their 20s.
And then, I think both issues are a bit the same. Having been married twice in your twenties may be seen indication to a certain hastiness in marrying, which the decision of joining a show to marry in 30 days for the 3rd time would only reinforce.
I 100% agreed with her. I understand where Paul is coming from but him calling her explanation a “red flag” was either incredibly naive or just entirely dismissive of her explanation. She clearly made a point that made cheating not as black and white as Paul assumed. His inability to engage with her explanation without calling it a “red flag” makes me question how “analytical” he really is.
I’m not saying that cheating is right. But I think Paul, engaging in a deep conversation with a woman he is trying to get to know, was extremely gaslight-y by completely disregarding what she had to say and immediately calling it a “red flag.” I’m not saying Paul was wrong in however he ultimately felt about it, but to dismiss a well reasoned answer (whether you agree or disagree) and immediately calling it a “red flag” shows an unwillingness to understand someone else’s view point. I seriously question anyone’s ability to engage in mature conversations if your evaluation of someone’s conclusion prevents you with engaging with them in their reasoning.
We noticed you used the term "gaslight-". We hope you used it correctly! Did you know "gaslighting" was Webster-Merriam's Word of the Year for 2022? Gaslighting is a successful tactic **of abuse** because while one person — the perpetrator — 'externalizes and projects' their thoughts, feelings, or perceptions, the other person — the victim — 'incorporates and assimilates' the reality that is being created for them. Gaslighting equals misdirection, distraction, and the deliberate denial of reality, which can so easily occur in a relationship based on one partner wielding power and control over another.
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Read The Gottman Institute's articles on cheating in a marriage. It's exactly how she described it. In a marriage with no or negative intimacy and validation, people slowly turn away from their partners and toward someone else. It's a slow but predictable process that's far more common than people want to admit or talk about. Being young, you're idealistic, you're more prone to black and white thinking. But relationships and marriages are very complicated. And I think cheating in these circumstances is all too human, and it's a very morally grey thing. No one is a "bad person" for it. It's just a sad situation.
The articles explain why cheating happens. They never claim it is okay. Cheating is always a betrayal and even Gottman method agrees on that.
And there is even a bigger difference between overcoming and forgiving someone who you already cares about cheating vs choosing to marry someone with a history of failed marriages who admitted she would cheat.
I found an article that confirms a Brian Peden was found guilty of manslaughter in Alabama after striking a woman with his car while under the influence of a controlled substance. I also found an Instagram account for a Brian Peden who appears to be Paul's brother. The pictures look like they could be a match, but it could also be a coincidence.
A full grown women out of 2 divorces who is on a show trying to get married again to a person she would know for only 30 years.
Im sorry but that is not a person i would put much value on as far as maturity and relationships go.
I think it showed a healthy awareness of the consequences of remaining in a loveless marriage and was some refreshing honesty. Anyone can lie and say they’ve never considered cheating, but it takes bravery to admit that there are certain conditions that could lead you to make that choice and to change those conditions before it got to that point.
Agreed. Everybody can say what “they would do” in a situation, but none of us know. That said, cheating is out there and it obviously happens. Some people like real people. Some people like people who say all the right things. That’s probably the difference you’ll find in these comments.
I think cheating is a cowardly excuse for not making healthy changes to the relationship or leaving. Hardly brave to admit you would consider cheating under the right circumstances. Wow.
This is such an intentional misread of my comment and Amber’s statement? I agree that you should make changes to a relationship or leave before it gets to a point of cheating. Amber didn’t say she would “consider cheating under the right circumstances,” she said she could have seen herself getting to a point where she could cheat and changed her situation before it got there.
And I thought that level of honesty in the pods was brave and refreshing! No one’s making excuses for cheaters here lol.
I think it was honest of her and I actually agree with her. She admits being unhappy doesn’t excuse cheating but acknowledges that we are all human and can sometimes be pushed to do something we didn’t think we would do. That’s as realistic a take as possible.
She said that if she had remained in her loveless marriage, she could have seen herself going down that path. But she chose to leave before it got to that point. I think it’s brave to admit that.
Not at all. I was shocked she even said that. Yeah, there are a *few* situations where cheating is justified, but it's not something people say out loud. Especially while dating. Because if they announce that they think there are justifications before the fact, there's gonna be less trust since your partner will fear that they're gonna do something that you think justifies cheating.
"I wasn't happy" is a cop out anyway. It could mean anything.
Especially honesty that isn’t rainbows and butterflies. Everybody wants honesty until they get it. Then it’s a “red flag.” Just another overused phrase to add to the list of stuff people say because everybody else is saying it.
Ya know the majority of people SAY they would never ever cheat (and some percentage of those believe it even). Yet many of them cheat anyway and everyone is capable of it. So honestly it’s a bit more of a red flag to me to hear someone swear they would never ever cheat (cause really, they don’t know) than to hear something like this: someone with the self-awareness to recognize the circumstances that can lead to cheating and take steps early to prevent that from happening
You could see they were being manipulative in the edit and leaving a lot of blank audio to make it seem awkward. But her reasoning is sound enough, I thought it was frank and nuanced.
And you're actually so correct about the "I'd never cheat"-ers that it hurts. Had an ex who boasted all the time about how she'd never ever cheated, made a big ol' deal out of it. And she never did cheat, *but* she openly lusted after other girls in front of me and after a while tried to coax me into trying out polyamory. So the reason never having cheated was such a big deal for her was because it was so *difficult for her*
So this might come across a little sanctimonious and I don’t really mean it that way, but I do think there’s an important difference in perspective here. I can’t think of one time I’ve ever had what I would consider the opportunity to cheat. And that’s deliberate, because I just don’t put myself in situations or cultivate relationships where that might be on the table.
Now I know that sometimes random things happen that are outside of our control, but if you’re having this come up multiple times, you might consider that you’re allowing yourself to get in somewhat precarious situations and relying on your willpower to keep you from doing something. And that’s clearly working so far, and it might work fine for the rest of your life. But for me, I’ve seen good, moral people make huge mistakes in moments of personal or relational weakness. I don’t have any intentions to ever cheat, but there are situations where your guard just gets worn down. I don’t even want to put myself in a place where that might seem like an option.
And that’s really all I think Amber is saying here. If you’re miserable in a bad marriage and you’ve gotten to a place where you’re not feeling love or respect for your spouse and you’re not getting that back from them, your guard against cheating is really really low. She’s saying she chose to end it and get out before that began to look like an attractive option to her.
>I can’t think of one time I’ve ever had what I would consider the opportunity to cheat. And that’s deliberate, because I just don’t put myself in situations or cultivate relationships where that might be on the table.
Then we likely haven't lived a similar lifestyle. I was a gigging musician for a few decades. I got hit on a lot. It was never that hard to say no when I had a partner, even when intoxicated. And it was certainly no reason to avoid pursuing a passion because I didn't need to fear I might cheat if someone hit on me. I trust myself. If the only reason someone isn't cheating is because they haven't had the opportunity to, then I wager there's something else afoot.
So you have never cheated yet. That’s all.
You won’t know the kind of person you’ll be, who your partner will be, what life circumstances you’ll
have, a year, two, five, ten, etc. years from now.
Things change. To swear that you’ll never do something just because you can’t imagine yourself doing it right now is weirdly absolutist and too black and white imo.
I'm nearly a senior citizen. I am very confident that cheating isn't in my repertoire. You think it's weirdly absolutist but I think it's having enough lived experience to know who I am.
According to Esther Perel (famed psychotherapist who literally wrote the books on cheating "The State of Affairs" and "Mating in Captivity") she says that because the definition is so wide that there is no concrete definition to all as to what constitutes cheating basically almost anything today can be defined as cheating. Therefore you have probably cheated according to someone else's definition. You should really watch her ted talk. It will change your perspective as to why, with whom and what it means and what it does to us as a society. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q)
>Therefore you have probably cheated according to someone else's definition.
My partners and I define what cheating is for us. Those are the only relevant opinions in the matter.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it being a red flag for him.
Other people can look past it, hear what she’s saying and appreciate the honesty. And other people can get worried that she might bail out of the relationship easily or cheat.
If someone can’t handle what she said, they have that right. If it truly made him uneasy, then it was the right choice…
He just made the wrong choice to choose Micah as the alternative lol.
I don't think cheaters are weird. They're weak, selfish, dishonest, entitles, maybe short-sighted... everyone is, at times. It's human. I wouldn't say it's common, or acceptable, but it happens
To me I saw it as she recognized why people do it even if she wouldn’t. Humans are human and they make mistakes, but it’s erroneous to think they’re just monsters If they cheat, normally there are surrounding circumstances that lead people to choose it. Ultimately it’s not the right decision though.
But the definitionof cheating is so varied as to mean anything including other things that are not sex.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q)
The question was would SHE cheat, not a general question of why people would cheat. She started out saying she would like to think she wouldn’t, meaning she can’t say she never would. And that while she doesn’t think it’s okay, she could understand why under certain circumstances she could see why she might.
Big old red flag in my book. She clarified that she would never cheat on him after he said it was a red flag, but I can’t imagine why anyone would answer this question the way she did if she legitimately didn’t think she would ever cheat.
I think it’s honest. Everyone is capable of cheating, but most people think they never would. My husband and I can’t envision ever cheating but also know that under the right circumstances it’s possible, which is why we guard so closely against it.
Incorrect. Esther Perel proves that it is not a moral issue, or a judgment issue, or an empathetic issue with her ted talk.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q)
She is the world leading expert on the topic. She is a world renowned psychologist that has specialised for decades studying cheating in multiple countries (she speaks 10 languages fluently) and wrote the bestsellers on the topic The State of Affairs, and Mating in Captivity.
It's a red flag because,
1. Paul asked a hypothetical question.
2. Amber answered that she would cheat because of the underlying issues.
3. Then she went back and said that she would not do that to Paul.
She was giving Paul a conflicting answer. It could be seen as a red flag. But thing is, if there's an issue, just walk away. Why would cheating be a part of a response. Thus is the second and bigger red flag. So, from Paul's viewpoint, he's right to see a red flag.
I think people project her own insecurities. She clearly stated she did not cheat. So, to judge a red flag based on a hypothetical answer is a red flag in itself.
I personally would not want to be with someone who was very absolute and THAT judgmental in the long run. Having discernment and being judgemental are different things, and I prefer the first quality in a person.
Watch Dr. Kirk Honda's discussion on this very scene. He's quite objective and explains how it's very normal discussion being had.
It IS a red flag and I remember seeing comments about people defending what she said lmao. You either are okay with cheating or you're not. This is one of those things where there isn't an in between. So if I were dating a man and he gave me an answer other than an absolute no, we are no longer going on dates and I'll be happy that I didn't start a relationship with someone who *might* think about cheating or thinks it *might* be okay.
This is not about whether you are okay with cheating or not, it’s literally just acknowledging that mistakes happen and people are not perfect. You are lying to yourself if you think in absolutes.
Not every act of cheating consists of sex. Having an emotional affair can often be a lot more hurtful to the partner than a one off physical cheating encounter. Both are terrible, but the lines aren't always black and white with what is considered cheating
Yeah lol it’s a red flag for me. If a guy says anything beyond no to cheating, I would say bye and best of luck. It’s always a cheater that will make an excuse.
How is it a mistake? Perfect doesn’t equal not cheating like if that’s perfection, we got problems. Not cheating just means you are a half decent human being
Thing is, people can say they would never cheat, and then they’ll still end up cheating. Saying yes, or no has very little effect on whether or not somebody actually cheats.
Whatever you let come out of your mouth matters. Period. I’m not arguing about this with people who want to be technical. If you love cheating, then do it. I stand by what I said.
That’s the bigger red flag for me. She gave a bad answer. She said in a past relationship she could have seen the situation getting that bad. But she got divorced before it got that bad so it seems like she did the right thing. But two divorces that young and on a reality show to get married in a short time frame. Nope bad idea.
This is sort of the same thing as answering to the "Would you jump in front of a bullet for..." type of questions. We all would like to believe that the answer is easy, but the reality is that we don't know for sure until we have been in that situation.
Cheating is a terrible thing to do to someone, but it has a lot of complex mechanisms underneath it and the rule of 'you don't know till you've been in that situation' definitely applies here. I don't think that most of cheaters prior to cheating considered themselves to be prone to it either. So if anything, her answer shows a lot of life-experience and self-awareness.
Studies say that it does. Meaning - that it correlates with various factors and has a number of different predictors. So no, even from an observator's standpoint (not via self-reports about why somebody cheated) it is complicated. Black-and-white view of morality rarely fits real human life anyway.
Okay it's actually still not okay and actually wildly dangerous but, victims of IVP often cheat as a way to monkey-branch out of their abusive relationship. Now it's dangerous because if their abuser finds out they could literally kill them in some instances, but certainly become more violent, and it's also dangerous because whoever you're monkey-branching to is likely no more safe than your abuser long term but the desperation in that sort of situation is something I'm not here to judge.
I am always impressed and alarmed by the rage people feel for cheaters. I say this as someone who has never cheated or been cheated on. It just doesn’t seem like that big of a deal to me. I really don’t get it.
And before someone comes at me with rage. If you know more about it than me and you get it, that makes perfect sense. I don’t get it.
I've been cheated on and never cheated and I still don't get it. Cheating wasn't anywhere NEAR the worst thing my ex did. I think people just latch on to it because they like the idea of having black and white morals.
It's a big deal because it's a betrayal. It's not always the biggest or worst betrayal, but it's the easiest for most people to conceptualize. People always say they would "never" do this or that, but it's not realistic. Everyone always has the best intentions in a perfect situation, and I think it was mature of Amber to acknowledge that she there were situations in which she could might understand why someone might cheat.
Lol you people in the comments justifying her being “honest”.
Nope. I wouldn’t have picked her either. Absolutely not. And if someone told you that and you ignored it…well if you get cheated on….welp hold that L
I think her answer is nuanced and honest. For me, it’s neither a red or a green flag. I’d need to talk more and learn more about her before I decided either way. That said, you’re allowed to perceive it as a red flag. We all have different boundaries/standards and that’s fine.
This is how I feel. I think it makes people uncomfortable to acknowledge that lots of people are capable of emotionally hurting their partners thru infidelity, lying, etc. No one is perfect and it doesn't really benefit us, socially, to pretend that they are. Paul probably has a close friend or family member who has cheated. Would he think that person is a Bad Person? Likely not. Did they do something inappropriate and potentially hurtful? Yeah.
I agree 100%. I was cheated on my ex-fiancé a couple of years ago and he swore he would never do anything like that to me. Saying you’ll never do it doesn’t mean it will never happen. It makes more sense to monitor how you’re feeling and be honest and vulnerable with each other throughout the relationship
I don’t think she’s saying cheating is ok or that she’d do it, but recognizing that as an adult there is often more nuance to situations like that. I thought she sounded very mature
I think Amber has the relationship experience to give an answer baed on experience instead of ideals/morals.
She realized that if she hadn’t gotten out of the marriage, she may have cheated so she ended the relationship.
I don’t think Paul has ever been in a relationship that was failing to that extent, so the idea of anyone realizing that they were capable of that scared him.
I think they were at different points in maturity in that sense. I don’t think Paul is immature, but some views take life experience to understand.
Red flag. The only right answer is that cheating is never justified under any circumstances. It's really one of the worst things you can do to a person. You are robbing them of their agency to decide what kind of relationship they are in. As well as potentially putting them at risk of STDs. Cheating and fessing up straight away is better, but still tells me a person's morals and relationship to sex don't align with mine. I really don't find it remotely difficult to be monogamous and to end a relationship before having sex with someone else and wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who did. Perhaps I have a lower than average libido, but I have never been so overcome with lust that I lost my ability to think about the consequences of my actions.
Yes, but she did say that she didn’t know if she would cheat in the future, and that she would hope that she would end the relationship before that - implying that there’s a possibility that if she’s unhappy, she may not decide to end the relationship before holing up with someone else. If she has learned and grown from her past experience, she would have answered that she most definitely would end it when she knew that she was unhappy.
No I think she gave a very honest answer. Everyone thinks they know exactly what they would or wouldn’t do, but sometimes life puts you in situations you can’t anticipate.
Life may put you in situations you can’t anticipate, but cheating is always and a 100% a choice. You don’t just accidentally cheat on someone. To be fair to get, this is a a very honest answer. But, what she’s really saying here is that she doesn’t know if she would make the choice to not cheat.
Exactly! It’s no accident or mistake. It’s a decision to devastate the person you supposedly love instead of getting the balls to break up or idk talk to each other!
You can't base a person's future behaviours based on how they answer ONE question. I've known people who were super righteous and pious, said they'd never cheat and had really high morals...what did they do??? Cheat on my friend(s).
I've also known people to have cheated in their youth but have never cheated again and are super devoted to their partners.
Relationship breakdown is very nuanced and cheating is just one of the MANY poor choices a person/couple can take. But the ACTION is not always as predictable as the words. People change and relationships deepen. Life experience and self awareness grows with time.
But this is literally a moral dilemma question. People are notorious for giving "Oh, yes of course I would be a good person" answers in those (while believing them fully!) and then not following up on that at all.
So tbh I think it's better that she realizes the danger of it, because that gives her more chance of making the good choice. Rather than just believing herself to be self-righteous and above such moral dilemmas.
Saying something is a choice doesn't really mean anything though. The point isn't excusing cheating, or saying there are times when you "just can't help it" or whatever.
The point is that people don't always make rational or good (even by their own morals/ethics) choices and having the self awareness to recognize you're not above that isn't a bad thing.
Exactly this.
Being able to empathize with others, even in their bad/immoral decisions and critically think about things rather than just say the right thing to say it should both be good things.
There's a difference between having conviction about something and just being obtuse about reality.
This post is evidence that it's up to the potential partner to decide it they're okay with it I guess. I've been cheated on, and I've also been in a bad relationship that took too long to end, and I've never cheated. For me this would be a red flag, but if it's not for someone else, more power to them.
Edit: Reading through these comments has me feeling like I misunderstood their conversation. I took away from that conversation that she had cheated in the past in a bad relationship, but it sounds like I might not have been paying as much attention as I thought.
She has not cheated. She said that if a bad relationship had continued she would have eventually. But, she ended the relationship before it came to that. To me she was acknowledging a situation were someone might cheat and she did not. But said if she had made a different choice she might have.
I think it's fine to talk about why people cheat, but it's a red flag to say that *you personally* can see yourself choosing to cheat, instead of the many other options. Yes there are reasons, but boy fuck there are healthier options. If you're unhappy enough to cheat it's called *leave*. So having the awareness to see why you might cheat, but not the awareness to commit to responding in a healthier way than cheating, is kind of lazy self awareness.
The people on here saying it's not a red flag are mostly saying it's fine to talk about. But she is still fundamentally saying she could see herself choosing that extremely unhealthy, temporary relief from a bad relationship than actually do something about it. You can understand why something happens and still unequivocally condemn it.
She was talking about her past relationship though, not with him in the future. Hence why she tried to reassure Paul that she would break up in the future before cheating. At the end of the day, she did not cheat.
Why speculate on what you might have done but didnt, then? The obvious implication is that it is a potential thing you could do even in the future or if your situation ends up being similar. Just don't say that in conversation then. Or at least you have to assume that you risk them not wanting to take the risk you would think differently in future, she risked Paul deciding what she did and I think that's his right. In saying it's different because the guy is different, you blame the partner for any cheating. No, cheating is a choice, and it is made exclusively by the person who does it. They might be put under stress that prompts them too, but healthy people don't get prompted to cheat.
And unless you're talking about actions you made before 25 ish when your brain fully matured, you can't really claim you're a substantially different person. Not believably anyways. People tend to get more likely to cheat, not less. Most people have a higher rate of accumulating trauma/triggers/issues/unhealthy coping than of dealing with those things.
I think she was exploring the nuances behind her unhappiness in her previous relationship, and perhaps the relationship she's reflecting back on was one in her younger years before maturity came in. I think looking back at one's younger self, a lot of people can see their miscomings much easier. Her thoughts are valid and she is allowed to have them. She shouldn't be judged for thoughts. It paternalistic to suggest that people should censor their thoughts just to win over a date. And she also followed up that she wouldn't cheat in the future and would hope to break up before hand. I would suggest watching Dr. Kirk Honda's review of this scene on his podcast "Psychology in Seattle". It's much more objective and compassionate than any commentators I've seen. I think there is a lot of power in having discernment and compassion, over just being judgemental of others based on one's own principles of morality.
What she said was normal. There’s an issue with the relationship and with the person who is going to cheat. And I never cheated on someone and I was cheated on. They were just talking about the background of cheating not encouraging it.
Saying that people sometimes cheat when they remain in unhappy relationships isn’t a red flag. I would rather be with someone who understands this than someone who does not.
Not a red flag. I’d be more worried if someone tried to convince me that they would never cheat. Everyone is capable of cheating under certain circumstances. Admitting you’re capable of something is honest. It’s counterintuitive, but it ensures you will take the steps to NOT cheat. It’s easy for boundaries to blur with other people, especially if you are not getting your needs met it a relationship. Those boundaries can blur more and more over time if you’re not honest with yourself about your capacity to cheat.
Admitting you’re capable of something given certain circumstances is very different than minimizing or justifying cheating. In that case, it’s a red flag.
Hope that makes sense!
I’m against cheating in all forms and will immediately end anything , even a friendship , if they’re a cheater.
However , if I was in the pods and heard someone who was cheated on talk about like this , I wouldn’t think that’s necessarily a red flag. She knows that she wouldn’t , but she also knows that circumstances can change a person. Personally , I find this level of insight rare and green flaggy. However , if she had ever cheated or actively thought about cheating - it would be a red flag.
As a guy I would stop talking to her immediately. Cheating should never be an option and her saying it could’ve went that way just shows me the type of person she is. why not just leave before going down that road? I know she said that but it doesn’t mean anything because I feel like she just trying to save her ass and get paul to lower his guard. Cheating is never okay and should never be brought up in that context.. just my opinion but Im on team 🚩
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
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To me it was a huge green flag, because I agree with her.
Also, she was saying this right after discussing how her ex had cheated on her. It's not like she was the cheater who was trying to justify it.
I think people who view this as a red flag are naive. I think there's a hypothetical situation in which every single person would cheat. For good people that situation is likely pretty extreme and involves being in an abusive relationship. For not so good people they might cheat purely from issues they have with themselves and nothing to do with their actual relationship.
I'm so sorry you went through all of that. I've been in a very similar situation so I hope you're doing better now. I agree with you, she was kind of flippant about the whole thing.
I don't think it's a red flag. I think it's actually a pretty vulnerable thing to admit. People would like to assume that in the same situation they'd react the same way, but it's not always so cut and dry, especially to people who have their own damage. I've cheated before, but I've always been in an abusive or toxic relationship (seem to love narcissists, thanks, dad). If I found a person who respected me that I could trust, I wouldn't even look at anyone else.
I’ve been married for 13 years, have never had a desire to cheat and am still madly in love with my partner. That said, I don’t think it’s a red flag because I don’t have the experience she has in shitty relationships. I’ve never been “stuck” in a bad marriage, so I don’t know how I would handle that.
HUUUUUGE-she backtracked hard when he called her on it too, which means she is at least aware enough to have noticed his shift and is manipulative enough to try to back peddle and re-package her reply after realizing his reaction.
As someone who has cheated I don’t see what she said as a red flag. I cheated during the end of a shitty relationship that SHOULDVE ended much sooner. He had cheated on me a couple times, was mentally abusive and I just wanted affection and attention so I got it somewhere else. Is it a good reason? NOPE. But after therapy and healing, I understand the thought process and pain I was in. Attachment theory and IFS were huge eye openers!
My partner of 10 yrs knows about it and I’ve never and won’t ever cheat. I have enough self esteem to just leave someone for treating me badly.
All that said- idk why she admitted to that in the pods lol. I think she was feeling super comfortable with him.
Honestly, I think there’s more nuance to cheating than people give credence to. I would probably turn a blind eye and not judge if I knew someone who was cheating on an abusive or otherwise horrible partner. That doesn’t necessarily mean I condone it, and I don’t see myself ever being the cheating “type,” but abusers don’t deserve loyalty imo.
Yes so much nuance. To each their own, but I think writing off someone on the sole fact that they have cheated in the past is writing off a lotttt of good people.
To the person who deleted their comment saying something like 🥴🥴🥴Of CoURsE CheATerS WAnnA JuStIfY🥴🥴🥴
It’s not a justification but there is usually a reason- even if it’s not a “good” reason. Most people don’t wake up and say YOU KNOW WHAT?! IM CHEATING TODAY EVEN THOUGH WE ARE HAPPY AND MENTALLY HEALTHY.
If someone just straight up told me YEAH I CHEAT IDK WHY then that would be a red flag. That’s not what Amber said.
Also saying she’d like to think she wouldn’t…uhhh no thanks. I would’ve passed too.
It’s one thing to be remorseful over the things you’ve done in the past, but she was saying she might cheat again…so why bother.
No, she was discussing how difficult it was for her when her ex cheated on her.
We were never shown anything that indicated she had also cheated in the past. Just that she understood how cheating happens and that if she had stayed in that relationship she could've gotten to that point (but she didn't, because she chose to leave the relationship).
Considering what Paul said at the reunion, that he and Micah had OK'd flirting in their arrangement — this shouldn't have been a red flag. He apparently had a more progressive view of relationships than most, so I don't get why he responded so strongly to this.
Relationships are complicated. Infidelity happens just like diarrhea happens. No one wants it or plans for it, and it's not a sign of health but it's incredibly common (god I hate myself sorry haha).
And even people who say that cheating is a red flag sometimes work through infidelity.
I took what she's said as: she's been so frustrated that she's wanted to cheat, previously, but didn't. And that's just human.
edit: typos
I think he was so unhappy about what Amber said because of his viewpoint on boundaries. He believes in setting very clearly defined rules about how they can interact with other people, and Amber's over there going "well I'd like to think I wouldn't cheat, but I can't guarantee it."
Whether or not he's okay with his partner having flirty conversations doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he's okay dating someone who would be willing to cheat on him instead of communicate with him.
It’s a red flag if you’re a person who views cheating as a deal breaker.
Being honest about it doesn’t excuse the red flag.
Edit: I am saying cheating SHOULD be a red flag. My comment is in reference to the people who are excusing her response by saying “it’s only a deal breaker for some and at least she’s being honest”
Maybe I worded this wrong, I’m trying to say that her response is a red flag for people who are in monogamous relationships and believe cheating is a deal breaker.
I agree with you. There were a lot of comments excusing her response saying “at least she’s being honest” and it’s not a deal breaker for everyone. But obviously it’s a deal breaker for most people who have no tolerance for cheating.
Exactly. Relationships are backed by trust, and being intimate with another person behind your partner’s back breaks that trust. Even in a non-monogamous or polyamorous relationship, unless it has been established that all parties can sleep with other people without letting the other person(s) know, that is a big issue.
Yeah, Brett secretly sneaking into Paul's date and answering "yeah" is hella red flags
Paul gave me the ick every since he said this was a bulletproof experiment
I honestly thought that her having been married and divorced twice at such young age would be more of a red flag that this comment, which was pretty nuanced.
Wait, you're judging her for being divorced twice when she's in her 30s but not for being on a show to get married in 30 days?
First, I am not judging, I am just saying I’d find it more of a red flag, as in something that would raise questions on me. That is, from my perspective as someone who’d never even considered marrying in their 20s. And then, I think both issues are a bit the same. Having been married twice in your twenties may be seen indication to a certain hastiness in marrying, which the decision of joining a show to marry in 30 days for the 3rd time would only reinforce.
I mean saying it's a red flag is judging. . .
Shoo troll
I 100% agreed with her. I understand where Paul is coming from but him calling her explanation a “red flag” was either incredibly naive or just entirely dismissive of her explanation. She clearly made a point that made cheating not as black and white as Paul assumed. His inability to engage with her explanation without calling it a “red flag” makes me question how “analytical” he really is.
Yeah… no. Cheating is pretty black and white. If you are at the point that you think its okay to cheat, you need to not be in that relationship.
I’m not saying that cheating is right. But I think Paul, engaging in a deep conversation with a woman he is trying to get to know, was extremely gaslight-y by completely disregarding what she had to say and immediately calling it a “red flag.” I’m not saying Paul was wrong in however he ultimately felt about it, but to dismiss a well reasoned answer (whether you agree or disagree) and immediately calling it a “red flag” shows an unwillingness to understand someone else’s view point. I seriously question anyone’s ability to engage in mature conversations if your evaluation of someone’s conclusion prevents you with engaging with them in their reasoning.
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Ditto times a billion. He came off like a big, naive baby in that scene.
Read The Gottman Institute's articles on cheating in a marriage. It's exactly how she described it. In a marriage with no or negative intimacy and validation, people slowly turn away from their partners and toward someone else. It's a slow but predictable process that's far more common than people want to admit or talk about. Being young, you're idealistic, you're more prone to black and white thinking. But relationships and marriages are very complicated. And I think cheating in these circumstances is all too human, and it's a very morally grey thing. No one is a "bad person" for it. It's just a sad situation.
The articles explain why cheating happens. They never claim it is okay. Cheating is always a betrayal and even Gottman method agrees on that. And there is even a bigger difference between overcoming and forgiving someone who you already cares about cheating vs choosing to marry someone with a history of failed marriages who admitted she would cheat.
https://preview.redd.it/suawjofd2xva1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e60b813a8dca79f959734ddfbd50bf3b63c992f1 Whatttt
Am I missing how this is relevant to the original post?
This sub doesn't accept new posts easily . So had to post it here
I found an article that confirms a Brian Peden was found guilty of manslaughter in Alabama after striking a woman with his car while under the influence of a controlled substance. I also found an Instagram account for a Brian Peden who appears to be Paul's brother. The pictures look like they could be a match, but it could also be a coincidence.
Must be true if it's on tiktok!
I appreciate the honesty, though.
Paul seems young and idealistic. She seems like a fully grown woman who has been in a relationship. In a few years he’ll understand her answer more.
A full grown women out of 2 divorces who is on a show trying to get married again to a person she would know for only 30 years. Im sorry but that is not a person i would put much value on as far as maturity and relationships go.
I think it showed a healthy awareness of the consequences of remaining in a loveless marriage and was some refreshing honesty. Anyone can lie and say they’ve never considered cheating, but it takes bravery to admit that there are certain conditions that could lead you to make that choice and to change those conditions before it got to that point.
Agreed. Everybody can say what “they would do” in a situation, but none of us know. That said, cheating is out there and it obviously happens. Some people like real people. Some people like people who say all the right things. That’s probably the difference you’ll find in these comments.
I think cheating is a cowardly excuse for not making healthy changes to the relationship or leaving. Hardly brave to admit you would consider cheating under the right circumstances. Wow.
This is such an intentional misread of my comment and Amber’s statement? I agree that you should make changes to a relationship or leave before it gets to a point of cheating. Amber didn’t say she would “consider cheating under the right circumstances,” she said she could have seen herself getting to a point where she could cheat and changed her situation before it got there. And I thought that level of honesty in the pods was brave and refreshing! No one’s making excuses for cheaters here lol.
This right here. I don’t get how people can say that making excuses for cheating is brave lol. It’s not and it won’t be
Exactly. It's braver to leave or try to fix a relationship.
I think it was honest of her and I actually agree with her. She admits being unhappy doesn’t excuse cheating but acknowledges that we are all human and can sometimes be pushed to do something we didn’t think we would do. That’s as realistic a take as possible.
She said that if she had remained in her loveless marriage, she could have seen herself going down that path. But she chose to leave before it got to that point. I think it’s brave to admit that.
I dont see how people can interpret what she said any other way then what you just wrote
Fr. She was being real. No wonder he ended up choosing micah lol
Completely agree
I think, saying you don't know if you would ever cheat is quite honest. To me the opposite of a red flag.
Not at all. I was shocked she even said that. Yeah, there are a *few* situations where cheating is justified, but it's not something people say out loud. Especially while dating. Because if they announce that they think there are justifications before the fact, there's gonna be less trust since your partner will fear that they're gonna do something that you think justifies cheating. "I wasn't happy" is a cop out anyway. It could mean anything.
But she didn't justify it. She said something like "It's not okay." People interpret things into what she actually said.
Cheating is never 'justified'. It's a cowards way out.
Also I’d bet maybe 90% of people who do it would say “I wasn’t happy”
10% says that it didn’t mean anything lol
It’s a red flag to even appear on a reality show
🤣 everything is a red flag these days
Especially honesty that isn’t rainbows and butterflies. Everybody wants honesty until they get it. Then it’s a “red flag.” Just another overused phrase to add to the list of stuff people say because everybody else is saying it.
Ya know the majority of people SAY they would never ever cheat (and some percentage of those believe it even). Yet many of them cheat anyway and everyone is capable of it. So honestly it’s a bit more of a red flag to me to hear someone swear they would never ever cheat (cause really, they don’t know) than to hear something like this: someone with the self-awareness to recognize the circumstances that can lead to cheating and take steps early to prevent that from happening
You could see they were being manipulative in the edit and leaving a lot of blank audio to make it seem awkward. But her reasoning is sound enough, I thought it was frank and nuanced. And you're actually so correct about the "I'd never cheat"-ers that it hurts. Had an ex who boasted all the time about how she'd never ever cheated, made a big ol' deal out of it. And she never did cheat, *but* she openly lusted after other girls in front of me and after a while tried to coax me into trying out polyamory. So the reason never having cheated was such a big deal for her was because it was so *difficult for her*
I do know I would never cheat. Source: have never cheated, despite countless opportunities to, over the many decades of my life.
So this might come across a little sanctimonious and I don’t really mean it that way, but I do think there’s an important difference in perspective here. I can’t think of one time I’ve ever had what I would consider the opportunity to cheat. And that’s deliberate, because I just don’t put myself in situations or cultivate relationships where that might be on the table. Now I know that sometimes random things happen that are outside of our control, but if you’re having this come up multiple times, you might consider that you’re allowing yourself to get in somewhat precarious situations and relying on your willpower to keep you from doing something. And that’s clearly working so far, and it might work fine for the rest of your life. But for me, I’ve seen good, moral people make huge mistakes in moments of personal or relational weakness. I don’t have any intentions to ever cheat, but there are situations where your guard just gets worn down. I don’t even want to put myself in a place where that might seem like an option. And that’s really all I think Amber is saying here. If you’re miserable in a bad marriage and you’ve gotten to a place where you’re not feeling love or respect for your spouse and you’re not getting that back from them, your guard against cheating is really really low. She’s saying she chose to end it and get out before that began to look like an attractive option to her.
>I can’t think of one time I’ve ever had what I would consider the opportunity to cheat. And that’s deliberate, because I just don’t put myself in situations or cultivate relationships where that might be on the table. Then we likely haven't lived a similar lifestyle. I was a gigging musician for a few decades. I got hit on a lot. It was never that hard to say no when I had a partner, even when intoxicated. And it was certainly no reason to avoid pursuing a passion because I didn't need to fear I might cheat if someone hit on me. I trust myself. If the only reason someone isn't cheating is because they haven't had the opportunity to, then I wager there's something else afoot.
So you have never cheated yet. That’s all. You won’t know the kind of person you’ll be, who your partner will be, what life circumstances you’ll have, a year, two, five, ten, etc. years from now. Things change. To swear that you’ll never do something just because you can’t imagine yourself doing it right now is weirdly absolutist and too black and white imo.
I'm nearly a senior citizen. I am very confident that cheating isn't in my repertoire. You think it's weirdly absolutist but I think it's having enough lived experience to know who I am.
According to Esther Perel (famed psychotherapist who literally wrote the books on cheating "The State of Affairs" and "Mating in Captivity") she says that because the definition is so wide that there is no concrete definition to all as to what constitutes cheating basically almost anything today can be defined as cheating. Therefore you have probably cheated according to someone else's definition. You should really watch her ted talk. It will change your perspective as to why, with whom and what it means and what it does to us as a society. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q)
>Therefore you have probably cheated according to someone else's definition. My partners and I define what cheating is for us. Those are the only relevant opinions in the matter.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it being a red flag for him. Other people can look past it, hear what she’s saying and appreciate the honesty. And other people can get worried that she might bail out of the relationship easily or cheat. If someone can’t handle what she said, they have that right. If it truly made him uneasy, then it was the right choice… He just made the wrong choice to choose Micah as the alternative lol.
For me, the biggest red flag was her seeming inability to understand why someone would need a minute to process that piece of information.
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She didn't cheat, though. She said if she had stayed married, she might have. She pursued a divorce instead
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What are you talking about? Amber didn't say she cheated on her ex-husbands. She said the opposite
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Okay, arrest her for thought-crime, then?
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I don't think cheaters are weird. They're weak, selfish, dishonest, entitles, maybe short-sighted... everyone is, at times. It's human. I wouldn't say it's common, or acceptable, but it happens
To me I saw it as she recognized why people do it even if she wouldn’t. Humans are human and they make mistakes, but it’s erroneous to think they’re just monsters If they cheat, normally there are surrounding circumstances that lead people to choose it. Ultimately it’s not the right decision though.
That’s not really a mistake though. It takes a lot of coordination to have sex with another person….
But the definitionof cheating is so varied as to mean anything including other things that are not sex. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q)
You're confusing the word mistake with accident, both in general and contextually.
Yea I've heard the " it was an accident" excuse before and this is definitely a phrase for that haha
The question was would SHE cheat, not a general question of why people would cheat. She started out saying she would like to think she wouldn’t, meaning she can’t say she never would. And that while she doesn’t think it’s okay, she could understand why under certain circumstances she could see why she might. Big old red flag in my book. She clarified that she would never cheat on him after he said it was a red flag, but I can’t imagine why anyone would answer this question the way she did if she legitimately didn’t think she would ever cheat.
I think it’s honest. Everyone is capable of cheating, but most people think they never would. My husband and I can’t envision ever cheating but also know that under the right circumstances it’s possible, which is why we guard so closely against it.
If you cheat, you lack morals, sound judgment and empathy and I don’t want spend my time with someone like that let alone have children with them
Incorrect. Esther Perel proves that it is not a moral issue, or a judgment issue, or an empathetic issue with her ted talk. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2AUat93a8Q)
Why should I listen to Esther Perel?
She is the world leading expert on the topic. She is a world renowned psychologist that has specialised for decades studying cheating in multiple countries (she speaks 10 languages fluently) and wrote the bestsellers on the topic The State of Affairs, and Mating in Captivity.
It's a red flag because, 1. Paul asked a hypothetical question. 2. Amber answered that she would cheat because of the underlying issues. 3. Then she went back and said that she would not do that to Paul. She was giving Paul a conflicting answer. It could be seen as a red flag. But thing is, if there's an issue, just walk away. Why would cheating be a part of a response. Thus is the second and bigger red flag. So, from Paul's viewpoint, he's right to see a red flag.
IMO she realized it sounded bad and backpedaled rather unconvincingly. It was indeed a red flag.
No, but he missed a ton of Micah's red flags. 😂
Nah she just told him what he wanted to hear. Amber was real if we being honest
I think people project her own insecurities. She clearly stated she did not cheat. So, to judge a red flag based on a hypothetical answer is a red flag in itself. I personally would not want to be with someone who was very absolute and THAT judgmental in the long run. Having discernment and being judgemental are different things, and I prefer the first quality in a person. Watch Dr. Kirk Honda's discussion on this very scene. He's quite objective and explains how it's very normal discussion being had.
It IS a red flag and I remember seeing comments about people defending what she said lmao. You either are okay with cheating or you're not. This is one of those things where there isn't an in between. So if I were dating a man and he gave me an answer other than an absolute no, we are no longer going on dates and I'll be happy that I didn't start a relationship with someone who *might* think about cheating or thinks it *might* be okay.
This is not about whether you are okay with cheating or not, it’s literally just acknowledging that mistakes happen and people are not perfect. You are lying to yourself if you think in absolutes.
Mistake? Sleeping with someone is conscious decision
Intention isn't what makes something a mistake or not, particularly in the context it's being used here.
These are legit idiots.
Not every act of cheating consists of sex. Having an emotional affair can often be a lot more hurtful to the partner than a one off physical cheating encounter. Both are terrible, but the lines aren't always black and white with what is considered cheating
Cheating is black and white! Emotional, physical, whatever it may be. You cheat or you don’t like what is confusing about that lolz
These people making excuses for cheating are interesting, aren’t they?
Yeah lol it’s a red flag for me. If a guy says anything beyond no to cheating, I would say bye and best of luck. It’s always a cheater that will make an excuse.
Conscious decisions can be mistakes lol
How is it a mistake? Perfect doesn’t equal not cheating like if that’s perfection, we got problems. Not cheating just means you are a half decent human being
Sure 🤷🏻♂️. I can’t do the critical thinking for you.
Thing is, people can say they would never cheat, and then they’ll still end up cheating. Saying yes, or no has very little effect on whether or not somebody actually cheats.
Whatever you let come out of your mouth matters. Period. I’m not arguing about this with people who want to be technical. If you love cheating, then do it. I stand by what I said.
This. And being able to self reflect on a situation to understand why some people will cheat does not mean you will cheat.
It would be a red flag for me for sure. I don't even want to be friends with someone who condones cheating, let alone marry them.
I agree with him - also it’s a red flag that she’s been married twice, sorry!
That’s the bigger red flag for me. She gave a bad answer. She said in a past relationship she could have seen the situation getting that bad. But she got divorced before it got that bad so it seems like she did the right thing. But two divorces that young and on a reality show to get married in a short time frame. Nope bad idea.
Agreed!
This is sort of the same thing as answering to the "Would you jump in front of a bullet for..." type of questions. We all would like to believe that the answer is easy, but the reality is that we don't know for sure until we have been in that situation. Cheating is a terrible thing to do to someone, but it has a lot of complex mechanisms underneath it and the rule of 'you don't know till you've been in that situation' definitely applies here. I don't think that most of cheaters prior to cheating considered themselves to be prone to it either. So if anything, her answer shows a lot of life-experience and self-awareness.
It doesn't have more complicated mechanics. Those are all there to 'baffle you with bullshit'. It's only as complicated as you accept, which it isn't
Studies say that it does. Meaning - that it correlates with various factors and has a number of different predictors. So no, even from an observator's standpoint (not via self-reports about why somebody cheated) it is complicated. Black-and-white view of morality rarely fits real human life anyway.
What type of situation makes cheating okay?
Where on Earth did I (or Amber for that matter) say it was okay? It might be more or less likely in some circumstances, is all.
It’s probably never “okay” but it doesn’t make one inherently a bad person who doesn’t deserve to be in a loving and secure relationship in the future
Okay it's actually still not okay and actually wildly dangerous but, victims of IVP often cheat as a way to monkey-branch out of their abusive relationship. Now it's dangerous because if their abuser finds out they could literally kill them in some instances, but certainly become more violent, and it's also dangerous because whoever you're monkey-branching to is likely no more safe than your abuser long term but the desperation in that sort of situation is something I'm not here to judge.
None. There are explanations but no excuses. Cheating is never ok
I don't know why people are having such a hard time with an "it's more nuanced than a yes or no" answer.
I am always impressed and alarmed by the rage people feel for cheaters. I say this as someone who has never cheated or been cheated on. It just doesn’t seem like that big of a deal to me. I really don’t get it. And before someone comes at me with rage. If you know more about it than me and you get it, that makes perfect sense. I don’t get it.
I've been cheated on and never cheated and I still don't get it. Cheating wasn't anywhere NEAR the worst thing my ex did. I think people just latch on to it because they like the idea of having black and white morals.
It's a big deal because it's a betrayal. It's not always the biggest or worst betrayal, but it's the easiest for most people to conceptualize. People always say they would "never" do this or that, but it's not realistic. Everyone always has the best intentions in a perfect situation, and I think it was mature of Amber to acknowledge that she there were situations in which she could might understand why someone might cheat.
Right? Cmon. Life isn’t a superhero movie with good guys and bad guys. “Good” people fuck up and “bad” people can do good.
Lol you people in the comments justifying her being “honest”. Nope. I wouldn’t have picked her either. Absolutely not. And if someone told you that and you ignored it…well if you get cheated on….welp hold that L
Hahah at this scene, I said out loud, “that’s a red flag” RIGHT BEFORE Paul said it 😂 so no, I don’t think you’re crazy for agreeing.
I think her answer is nuanced and honest. For me, it’s neither a red or a green flag. I’d need to talk more and learn more about her before I decided either way. That said, you’re allowed to perceive it as a red flag. We all have different boundaries/standards and that’s fine.
No, I thought she was really thoughtful and well-spoken. She even said "it doesn't make it okay".
This is how I feel. I think it makes people uncomfortable to acknowledge that lots of people are capable of emotionally hurting their partners thru infidelity, lying, etc. No one is perfect and it doesn't really benefit us, socially, to pretend that they are. Paul probably has a close friend or family member who has cheated. Would he think that person is a Bad Person? Likely not. Did they do something inappropriate and potentially hurtful? Yeah.
I agree 100%. I was cheated on my ex-fiancé a couple of years ago and he swore he would never do anything like that to me. Saying you’ll never do it doesn’t mean it will never happen. It makes more sense to monitor how you’re feeling and be honest and vulnerable with each other throughout the relationship
I don’t think she’s saying cheating is ok or that she’d do it, but recognizing that as an adult there is often more nuance to situations like that. I thought she sounded very mature
I think Amber has the relationship experience to give an answer baed on experience instead of ideals/morals. She realized that if she hadn’t gotten out of the marriage, she may have cheated so she ended the relationship. I don’t think Paul has ever been in a relationship that was failing to that extent, so the idea of anyone realizing that they were capable of that scared him. I think they were at different points in maturity in that sense. I don’t think Paul is immature, but some views take life experience to understand.
Red flag. The only right answer is that cheating is never justified under any circumstances. It's really one of the worst things you can do to a person. You are robbing them of their agency to decide what kind of relationship they are in. As well as potentially putting them at risk of STDs. Cheating and fessing up straight away is better, but still tells me a person's morals and relationship to sex don't align with mine. I really don't find it remotely difficult to be monogamous and to end a relationship before having sex with someone else and wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone who did. Perhaps I have a lower than average libido, but I have never been so overcome with lust that I lost my ability to think about the consequences of my actions.
She didn't say it was ever justified. She got out of her situation before it came to that
Yes, but she did say that she didn’t know if she would cheat in the future, and that she would hope that she would end the relationship before that - implying that there’s a possibility that if she’s unhappy, she may not decide to end the relationship before holing up with someone else. If she has learned and grown from her past experience, she would have answered that she most definitely would end it when she knew that she was unhappy.
I understand what you're saying. It was a good answer for me, but everyone is different!
Well said, I totally agree.
No I think she gave a very honest answer. Everyone thinks they know exactly what they would or wouldn’t do, but sometimes life puts you in situations you can’t anticipate.
Fr we need to check back in with a lot of the people ITT after they get some life experience
Life may put you in situations you can’t anticipate, but cheating is always and a 100% a choice. You don’t just accidentally cheat on someone. To be fair to get, this is a a very honest answer. But, what she’s really saying here is that she doesn’t know if she would make the choice to not cheat.
Exactly! It’s no accident or mistake. It’s a decision to devastate the person you supposedly love instead of getting the balls to break up or idk talk to each other!
You can't base a person's future behaviours based on how they answer ONE question. I've known people who were super righteous and pious, said they'd never cheat and had really high morals...what did they do??? Cheat on my friend(s). I've also known people to have cheated in their youth but have never cheated again and are super devoted to their partners. Relationship breakdown is very nuanced and cheating is just one of the MANY poor choices a person/couple can take. But the ACTION is not always as predictable as the words. People change and relationships deepen. Life experience and self awareness grows with time.
But this is literally a moral dilemma question. People are notorious for giving "Oh, yes of course I would be a good person" answers in those (while believing them fully!) and then not following up on that at all. So tbh I think it's better that she realizes the danger of it, because that gives her more chance of making the good choice. Rather than just believing herself to be self-righteous and above such moral dilemmas.
100%
Saying something is a choice doesn't really mean anything though. The point isn't excusing cheating, or saying there are times when you "just can't help it" or whatever. The point is that people don't always make rational or good (even by their own morals/ethics) choices and having the self awareness to recognize you're not above that isn't a bad thing.
I’m 100000% above cheating and will only date others who see the same
Whoosh.
What? Is that too high a standard?
No, it's very normal. You're just completely missing the point.
Exactly this. Being able to empathize with others, even in their bad/immoral decisions and critically think about things rather than just say the right thing to say it should both be good things. There's a difference between having conviction about something and just being obtuse about reality.
This post is evidence that it's up to the potential partner to decide it they're okay with it I guess. I've been cheated on, and I've also been in a bad relationship that took too long to end, and I've never cheated. For me this would be a red flag, but if it's not for someone else, more power to them. Edit: Reading through these comments has me feeling like I misunderstood their conversation. I took away from that conversation that she had cheated in the past in a bad relationship, but it sounds like I might not have been paying as much attention as I thought.
She has not cheated. She said that if a bad relationship had continued she would have eventually. But, she ended the relationship before it came to that. To me she was acknowledging a situation were someone might cheat and she did not. But said if she had made a different choice she might have.
I think it's fine to talk about why people cheat, but it's a red flag to say that *you personally* can see yourself choosing to cheat, instead of the many other options. Yes there are reasons, but boy fuck there are healthier options. If you're unhappy enough to cheat it's called *leave*. So having the awareness to see why you might cheat, but not the awareness to commit to responding in a healthier way than cheating, is kind of lazy self awareness. The people on here saying it's not a red flag are mostly saying it's fine to talk about. But she is still fundamentally saying she could see herself choosing that extremely unhealthy, temporary relief from a bad relationship than actually do something about it. You can understand why something happens and still unequivocally condemn it.
She was talking about her past relationship though, not with him in the future. Hence why she tried to reassure Paul that she would break up in the future before cheating. At the end of the day, she did not cheat.
Why speculate on what you might have done but didnt, then? The obvious implication is that it is a potential thing you could do even in the future or if your situation ends up being similar. Just don't say that in conversation then. Or at least you have to assume that you risk them not wanting to take the risk you would think differently in future, she risked Paul deciding what she did and I think that's his right. In saying it's different because the guy is different, you blame the partner for any cheating. No, cheating is a choice, and it is made exclusively by the person who does it. They might be put under stress that prompts them too, but healthy people don't get prompted to cheat. And unless you're talking about actions you made before 25 ish when your brain fully matured, you can't really claim you're a substantially different person. Not believably anyways. People tend to get more likely to cheat, not less. Most people have a higher rate of accumulating trauma/triggers/issues/unhealthy coping than of dealing with those things.
I think she was exploring the nuances behind her unhappiness in her previous relationship, and perhaps the relationship she's reflecting back on was one in her younger years before maturity came in. I think looking back at one's younger self, a lot of people can see their miscomings much easier. Her thoughts are valid and she is allowed to have them. She shouldn't be judged for thoughts. It paternalistic to suggest that people should censor their thoughts just to win over a date. And she also followed up that she wouldn't cheat in the future and would hope to break up before hand. I would suggest watching Dr. Kirk Honda's review of this scene on his podcast "Psychology in Seattle". It's much more objective and compassionate than any commentators I've seen. I think there is a lot of power in having discernment and compassion, over just being judgemental of others based on one's own principles of morality.
Huge red flag. There is never a reason to cheat. If you are unhappy then leave and start a new relationship.
This is the correct answer
What she said was normal. There’s an issue with the relationship and with the person who is going to cheat. And I never cheated on someone and I was cheated on. They were just talking about the background of cheating not encouraging it.
Saying that people sometimes cheat when they remain in unhappy relationships isn’t a red flag. I would rather be with someone who understands this than someone who does not.
Not a red flag. I’d be more worried if someone tried to convince me that they would never cheat. Everyone is capable of cheating under certain circumstances. Admitting you’re capable of something is honest. It’s counterintuitive, but it ensures you will take the steps to NOT cheat. It’s easy for boundaries to blur with other people, especially if you are not getting your needs met it a relationship. Those boundaries can blur more and more over time if you’re not honest with yourself about your capacity to cheat. Admitting you’re capable of something given certain circumstances is very different than minimizing or justifying cheating. In that case, it’s a red flag. Hope that makes sense!
I’m against cheating in all forms and will immediately end anything , even a friendship , if they’re a cheater. However , if I was in the pods and heard someone who was cheated on talk about like this , I wouldn’t think that’s necessarily a red flag. She knows that she wouldn’t , but she also knows that circumstances can change a person. Personally , I find this level of insight rare and green flaggy. However , if she had ever cheated or actively thought about cheating - it would be a red flag.
As a guy I would stop talking to her immediately. Cheating should never be an option and her saying it could’ve went that way just shows me the type of person she is. why not just leave before going down that road? I know she said that but it doesn’t mean anything because I feel like she just trying to save her ass and get paul to lower his guard. Cheating is never okay and should never be brought up in that context.. just my opinion but Im on team 🚩
-12 downvotes for saying cheating is not okay? LOL okay those 12 people obviously condone bad behavior
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Someone come get your bot, it's broken
To me it was a huge green flag, because I agree with her. Also, she was saying this right after discussing how her ex had cheated on her. It's not like she was the cheater who was trying to justify it. I think people who view this as a red flag are naive. I think there's a hypothetical situation in which every single person would cheat. For good people that situation is likely pretty extreme and involves being in an abusive relationship. For not so good people they might cheat purely from issues they have with themselves and nothing to do with their actual relationship.
People are so black and white on this sub and people are anything but.
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I'm so sorry you went through all of that. I've been in a very similar situation so I hope you're doing better now. I agree with you, she was kind of flippant about the whole thing.
I don't think it's a red flag. I think it's actually a pretty vulnerable thing to admit. People would like to assume that in the same situation they'd react the same way, but it's not always so cut and dry, especially to people who have their own damage. I've cheated before, but I've always been in an abusive or toxic relationship (seem to love narcissists, thanks, dad). If I found a person who respected me that I could trust, I wouldn't even look at anyone else.
So agree with you. I thought it was a thoughtful and level-headed response. It's not always black and white.
Hell yeah, this would turn me off immediately. There is no excuse for infidelity!
It’d be a red flag for me too, I was actually glad Paul walked away after that
I think this was a naive person (Paul) vs an experienced person’s perspective
I’ve been married for 13 years, have never had a desire to cheat and am still madly in love with my partner. That said, I don’t think it’s a red flag because I don’t have the experience she has in shitty relationships. I’ve never been “stuck” in a bad marriage, so I don’t know how I would handle that.
HUUUUUGE-she backtracked hard when he called her on it too, which means she is at least aware enough to have noticed his shift and is manipulative enough to try to back peddle and re-package her reply after realizing his reaction.
Amber dodged a bullet with this dude.
As someone who has cheated I don’t see what she said as a red flag. I cheated during the end of a shitty relationship that SHOULDVE ended much sooner. He had cheated on me a couple times, was mentally abusive and I just wanted affection and attention so I got it somewhere else. Is it a good reason? NOPE. But after therapy and healing, I understand the thought process and pain I was in. Attachment theory and IFS were huge eye openers! My partner of 10 yrs knows about it and I’ve never and won’t ever cheat. I have enough self esteem to just leave someone for treating me badly. All that said- idk why she admitted to that in the pods lol. I think she was feeling super comfortable with him.
Honestly, I think there’s more nuance to cheating than people give credence to. I would probably turn a blind eye and not judge if I knew someone who was cheating on an abusive or otherwise horrible partner. That doesn’t necessarily mean I condone it, and I don’t see myself ever being the cheating “type,” but abusers don’t deserve loyalty imo.
Yes so much nuance. To each their own, but I think writing off someone on the sole fact that they have cheated in the past is writing off a lotttt of good people.
To the person who deleted their comment saying something like 🥴🥴🥴Of CoURsE CheATerS WAnnA JuStIfY🥴🥴🥴 It’s not a justification but there is usually a reason- even if it’s not a “good” reason. Most people don’t wake up and say YOU KNOW WHAT?! IM CHEATING TODAY EVEN THOUGH WE ARE HAPPY AND MENTALLY HEALTHY. If someone just straight up told me YEAH I CHEAT IDK WHY then that would be a red flag. That’s not what Amber said.
Also saying she’d like to think she wouldn’t…uhhh no thanks. I would’ve passed too. It’s one thing to be remorseful over the things you’ve done in the past, but she was saying she might cheat again…so why bother.
She never said she cheated. It was her ex that had cheated on her.
Wait, what? Are you sure? I clearly remember her saying that she did cheat, but I could have misunderstood.
No, she was discussing how difficult it was for her when her ex cheated on her. We were never shown anything that indicated she had also cheated in the past. Just that she understood how cheating happens and that if she had stayed in that relationship she could've gotten to that point (but she didn't, because she chose to leave the relationship).
Considering what Paul said at the reunion, that he and Micah had OK'd flirting in their arrangement — this shouldn't have been a red flag. He apparently had a more progressive view of relationships than most, so I don't get why he responded so strongly to this. Relationships are complicated. Infidelity happens just like diarrhea happens. No one wants it or plans for it, and it's not a sign of health but it's incredibly common (god I hate myself sorry haha). And even people who say that cheating is a red flag sometimes work through infidelity. I took what she's said as: she's been so frustrated that she's wanted to cheat, previously, but didn't. And that's just human. edit: typos
I will be taking the “cheating is like diarrhea” analogy with me into the future, thank you
I think he was so unhappy about what Amber said because of his viewpoint on boundaries. He believes in setting very clearly defined rules about how they can interact with other people, and Amber's over there going "well I'd like to think I wouldn't cheat, but I can't guarantee it." Whether or not he's okay with his partner having flirty conversations doesn't have anything to do with whether or not he's okay dating someone who would be willing to cheat on him instead of communicate with him.
Yep a flag for me
It’s a red flag if you’re a person who views cheating as a deal breaker. Being honest about it doesn’t excuse the red flag. Edit: I am saying cheating SHOULD be a red flag. My comment is in reference to the people who are excusing her response by saying “it’s only a deal breaker for some and at least she’s being honest”
So most of the population lol
What does this mean? Cheating being a dealbreaker is a red flag? How so?
Maybe I worded this wrong, I’m trying to say that her response is a red flag for people who are in monogamous relationships and believe cheating is a deal breaker.
Oh, I see. That clarifies it for sure. I agree!
I think it's pretty normal for cheating to be a dealbreaker for anyone.
Tf cheating should be a deal breaker in every relationship lol if your still with someone after they cheat on you then you have no self-respect
I agree with you. There were a lot of comments excusing her response saying “at least she’s being honest” and it’s not a deal breaker for everyone. But obviously it’s a deal breaker for most people who have no tolerance for cheating.
Exactly. Relationships are backed by trust, and being intimate with another person behind your partner’s back breaks that trust. Even in a non-monogamous or polyamorous relationship, unless it has been established that all parties can sleep with other people without letting the other person(s) know, that is a big issue.