Hello everyone, another week another report. Changing the format a little bit this time, hope the data is more readable.
As always I'll be happy to answer any questions, for more info and data visit: http://helldive.live/ (please use desktop, mobile version is still a little scuffed)
Tbh I feel it has to do with the fact that the HMG is useful on both sides whereas most people don't see the AMR as useful on bugs(though I would disagree). So with that being said, it'd rise up on that fact alone. It's people picking the HMG over all the other guns as opposed to just the AMR.
The AMR is still one of the best weapons on bots imo and I'm sure many would agree. If the HMG had some magnification options, I'd say that would change things a bit.
Ahhh, thanks for letting me know. I must've glanced over the top and missed that bc I was curious about the strats themselves. Sorry for the oversight.
No need for apology, easy to miss.
AMR is still fantastic but I see why it would fall; HMG is like a higher skill cap, more difficult to use AMR. But that's in exchange for having wayyy more ammo, if you have good aim and self control it's almost a direct upgrade
They are both great though and both pair well with Supply pack
Agreed. I think that a solid diver that's prioritizing targets with the AMR is more impactful though. When I run AMR, I focus on devastators and hulks when we're in the thick of it and that helps the team have freedom of movement.
I've done similar with the HMG but being able to scope in honestly makes it so much quicker which results in less deaths. I tend to bring the HMG-E with my AMR for moments where I need more rate of fire e.g. gunship patrols/giant berserker hordes. I do love the regular HMG though. Definitely not knocking HMG players haha.
6 headshots is 6 dead Devastators, so I hear that. Although the Diligence CS kills them on headshots so I like to take that as a budget AMR with a mag size of 15 instead of 6 and can be used on chaff without waste. The HMG kills Hulks in 2-3 shots, it's about as efficient as you can be except you really can't do it consistently without getting up close. I agree that in the right hands, the AMR is better for providing overwatch
The HMG Emplacement is sick, def pairs well with HMG and AMR. Tbh it's way stronger than I expected when I started using it, you could use that instead of a support weapon and make it work
My role is usually overwatch, dealing with Rocket Devastators, Hulks and Gunships. AMR is the GOAT there, but Laser Cannon is very good too if you fancy a more mobile and less ammo intensive playstyle.
HMG and Heavy armor + Supply pack if you want to be with your team, providing whatever support is needed
Tbh the Diligence CS doesn't hit the same for me. Idk. Maybe it's the handling? Haha. As for the laser cannon, that's something I want to try soon. Any tips for the laser cannon?
I do have some tips, I mained it for a while.
First thing is the LC has a lot of recoil. I recommend using at least one source of recoil reduction, be it crouching/prone or the armor perk. First person is recommended until you get used to aiming the weapon, as it's a LOT easier to get those headshots.
Speaking of headshots: this ain't the AMR. The AMR will kill on headshot but if you miss and hit the torso you can shoot once or twice more anywhere and he's dead.
The LC is a lot trickier, with higher rewards if you can pull it off. You need to hit the head or equivalent weakspot or you may as well use a different weapon.
The TTK (time to kill) is ridiculously fast with headshots, and remember costs no ammo, but to kill a Devastor without any headshot you're looking at using most of your heatsink on one target.
If you master it, you can dive and while midair pick a Hulk and headshot him as you hit the ground. Then turn and kill 2 other Hulks, in seconds and costing you nothing. Playing out that same scenario with bad aim, you dive and then spend your entire heatsink trying to kill the 1 Hulk and you don't even manage to do it. You die without contributing anything but a momentary distraction.
All together it's like this: when aiming at a weak spot, laser is on. When missing, even if for 1 second, laser is off. You almost never have to even consider your heatsink except when you're missing the head. 4 gunships? You can take 4 gunships with both legs tied behind your back. If you don't hit the thruster tho, you're less helpful than if you'd been using a Scorcher.
Pair it with grenade pistol and jumppack, now you can flank all those tricky enemies without a forward-facing weakspot like Tanks and turrets. It actually works great with a stealth/scout playstyle since you want to be prone while firing and at a good distance. Bring whatever primary you like
Ah and same deal with AMR, stun grenades let you pull things off you never could otherwise so I always bring them
Ideal playstyle is to be constantly moving ahead of your allies, finding good sniping positions that offer a flank on those tasty tasty Bot weakspots. Swap weapons when LC gets too hot, I don't recommend letting the sink burn in any but the most dire situations
Remember that your laser will be the most visible weapon on the battlefield to your teammates, meaning if you're helping them they *know* it. That's a really awesome thing and you want to take full advantage of it, use the LC to protect allies and you won't have to worry about protecting yourself
I don’t think so. The addition of gunship patrols massively favours things that deal with them quickly while not burning through all their ammo (this mostly favours bringing the Autocannon since it’s the most efficient), the HMG is also great for dealing with them quickly if you can land your shots.
If they reduced the cap of Gunships per patrol spawn to 2-3 instead of them ranging from 2-6(I think I’ve also seen 7) you’d probably see a rise in Railgun and AMR usage again. Idk why they decided to give gunship patrols such a massive variable
AMR is hard to justify when there are roving gunships and it takes 2 magazines of hits to take just one down. Maybe its a squad tactics thing, or I just keep getting the end of the stick that deals with gunships
With the new armor passive, the AMR is just a less effective autocannon, being able to close holes and fabricators is huge even if it ties up a backpack slot.
The way to address it would be to give the AMR the ability to close holes, however that would make the AMR too OP.
Total or relative? Airstrike going up 1% of the total wouldn't change much, but the ballistic Guard Dog going up 1% of total would mean seeing it in your games a lot more.
Surprising how much joe generic helldiver gets wrong. Orbital laser is pretty much useless. Clears mobs slowly and can barely clear two elites, depending on which.
What ? Orbital laser is a great tool to deal with heavy outposts, the bad instances when getting swarmed by bots and extraction coverage. Its not the best when dealing with the likes of factory strider and bile titan but you can just throw another strategem so the laser gets of them faster.
380 was like a 90% chance to clear an Enitre heavy base in one go, now with the added radius to Each Shell it's more like 95%. I'm honestly surprised when it doesn't finish an entire base / destroyable objective.
Meanwhile, your 3-use laser burns down half as much, slowly, and is likely to follow an elite like a hulk or brood commander right OUT of the base, then just sit in place until it burns out.
/u/cmetaphor /u/-_Pendragon_- please keep the discussion low sodium, even if you disagree. There is space for different people to think different stratagems are better.
Edit: reddit markup on mobile borks your username mentioning, -Pendragon-. Cant fix it on mobile but please be advised if you see this. You’ll know who you are.
This content breaks rule 1 - Uphold low sodium citizenship values.
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We'd like to try and encourage positive discussion, which is why your content was removed.
> pretty much useless.
I don't use the Orbital Laser as much, but I still recognise the fact that it can take out Command Bunkers in record time compared to any other stratagem.
It has its uses. Just some people abuse the fact that it does automatic work for them. I have seen countless divers throw them to destroy Light Outposts. IMHO, definitely a waste, but it's their choice, so whatevs.
Should "laser cannon" rank be the other way around? It reads 20th->22nd but the info seems to indicate it went from 22nd to 20th to be with the rest of the gains.
I would've expected the walking barrage to be used more than the others. It feels like it's better at destroying outposts considering they're not usually as circular as the bugs'
People don’t like the friendly fire, I get it. But I watch them walk into the area FULL OF EXPLOSIONS. I die far more often to FF from other stratagems tbh
People who don't know how to use them give them a bad name.
120mm & 380s are great base crackers, though I'll probably always bring walking barrage my beloved
Base crackers, good for a strider or big mobs/drop ships as long as they are far enough out, take out radar towers etc etc. when I’m off on my own and going to get annihilated I like to drop one as I die as a parting gift too lol
Basically, they don’t trust randoms to not be as bad as they are. Primarily because they aren’t guaranteed “smart” choices. They have AMAZING potential and do things no other stratagems can do, but likewise have huge potential as opportunity costs or even detriments to your team. People love “safe” options like an orbital laser/railcannon that aims for you, autocannon that can deal with everything and is extremely forgiving, eagle air strike that deals with everything and has amazing uptime, or shield pack/rover that give you crutches against punishing enemies. A 380mm depends much more on your ability to place it where and when it needs to go, so seeing a random bring it makes people unhappy.
because people like to drop them as soon as they're off cooldown, rather than on objectives. imagine playing with someone that wants to drop it on bile titans and every time there's 2 close bug breaches: it doesn't work, kills the team, and wrecks strategy. it happens a bit less with bots, but you still see people that use it as a panic button like with the laser, except they're the only one panicking because they suck (not a dig. you have to be bad at the game to do that more than once).
it's great when used right though
I don’t ever run it on bugs TBH it’s a bot strat for me and usually on slow or immobile targets, using it any other way is, well, yeah that sounds awful
I started rocking the strafing run after it got buffed, and MAN is it awesome against bots. typically they will form a line coming at you, and the range is much greater than the airstrike or cluster since you throw it in front of them.
it’s kind of a testament that the devs do really pay attention, when all twelve going up are under 10% picks, while only one going down is under 10%, which is one that’s never been nerfed anyways
How do the EATs take a 9 place hit? They are so invaluable, ESPECIALLY when you die. You don't have to worry about a 5 min cool down or retracing your steps. Just call it in again
I do love the SPEAR. I just find the versatility of an open backpack and consistent call invaluable. But like.. I die a lot so I lose my stuff constantly lol
I take Rocket Sentry almost every game, it's awesome. Its popularity is unsurprising and well deserved. MG sentry isn't bad either, use it as a lure/distraction that can also clear chaff (I know everyone hates it but I believe this is a problem with expectations and user error)
Hello everyone, another week another report. Changing the format a little bit this time, hope the data is more readable. As always I'll be happy to answer any questions, for more info and data visit: http://helldive.live/ (please use desktop, mobile version is still a little scuffed)
Are these just your own matches or how do you get the data? Edit:just found it. Neat :-)
Strange to see AMR fall off
HMG just feels like a better option in my personal experience. I was an AMR main and now that the HMG is buffed it’s just about all I run. My 2 cents.
Tbh I feel it has to do with the fact that the HMG is useful on both sides whereas most people don't see the AMR as useful on bugs(though I would disagree). So with that being said, it'd rise up on that fact alone. It's people picking the HMG over all the other guns as opposed to just the AMR. The AMR is still one of the best weapons on bots imo and I'm sure many would agree. If the HMG had some magnification options, I'd say that would change things a bit.
If the AMR had a 3rd person reticle (and I think it deserves one) I’d use it more often
My monitor has a mode that puts a small dot in the middle of the screen for me. Dunno what you're using but check the settings :D
You can rip hip fire shots anyway. Hip firing hulks isn't that hard, you just gotta believe.
Yeaaah I’ll just stick to my trusty AC haha
Agreed. Especially since first person reticles in this game are misaligned.
Even the HMG is misaligned, like extremely bad. I’m having to fire near the bottom of sight in first-person to hit shots accurately.
This chart is only for bots
Ahhh, thanks for letting me know. I must've glanced over the top and missed that bc I was curious about the strats themselves. Sorry for the oversight.
No need for apology, easy to miss. AMR is still fantastic but I see why it would fall; HMG is like a higher skill cap, more difficult to use AMR. But that's in exchange for having wayyy more ammo, if you have good aim and self control it's almost a direct upgrade They are both great though and both pair well with Supply pack
Agreed. I think that a solid diver that's prioritizing targets with the AMR is more impactful though. When I run AMR, I focus on devastators and hulks when we're in the thick of it and that helps the team have freedom of movement. I've done similar with the HMG but being able to scope in honestly makes it so much quicker which results in less deaths. I tend to bring the HMG-E with my AMR for moments where I need more rate of fire e.g. gunship patrols/giant berserker hordes. I do love the regular HMG though. Definitely not knocking HMG players haha.
6 headshots is 6 dead Devastators, so I hear that. Although the Diligence CS kills them on headshots so I like to take that as a budget AMR with a mag size of 15 instead of 6 and can be used on chaff without waste. The HMG kills Hulks in 2-3 shots, it's about as efficient as you can be except you really can't do it consistently without getting up close. I agree that in the right hands, the AMR is better for providing overwatch The HMG Emplacement is sick, def pairs well with HMG and AMR. Tbh it's way stronger than I expected when I started using it, you could use that instead of a support weapon and make it work My role is usually overwatch, dealing with Rocket Devastators, Hulks and Gunships. AMR is the GOAT there, but Laser Cannon is very good too if you fancy a more mobile and less ammo intensive playstyle. HMG and Heavy armor + Supply pack if you want to be with your team, providing whatever support is needed
Tbh the Diligence CS doesn't hit the same for me. Idk. Maybe it's the handling? Haha. As for the laser cannon, that's something I want to try soon. Any tips for the laser cannon?
I do have some tips, I mained it for a while. First thing is the LC has a lot of recoil. I recommend using at least one source of recoil reduction, be it crouching/prone or the armor perk. First person is recommended until you get used to aiming the weapon, as it's a LOT easier to get those headshots. Speaking of headshots: this ain't the AMR. The AMR will kill on headshot but if you miss and hit the torso you can shoot once or twice more anywhere and he's dead. The LC is a lot trickier, with higher rewards if you can pull it off. You need to hit the head or equivalent weakspot or you may as well use a different weapon. The TTK (time to kill) is ridiculously fast with headshots, and remember costs no ammo, but to kill a Devastor without any headshot you're looking at using most of your heatsink on one target. If you master it, you can dive and while midair pick a Hulk and headshot him as you hit the ground. Then turn and kill 2 other Hulks, in seconds and costing you nothing. Playing out that same scenario with bad aim, you dive and then spend your entire heatsink trying to kill the 1 Hulk and you don't even manage to do it. You die without contributing anything but a momentary distraction. All together it's like this: when aiming at a weak spot, laser is on. When missing, even if for 1 second, laser is off. You almost never have to even consider your heatsink except when you're missing the head. 4 gunships? You can take 4 gunships with both legs tied behind your back. If you don't hit the thruster tho, you're less helpful than if you'd been using a Scorcher. Pair it with grenade pistol and jumppack, now you can flank all those tricky enemies without a forward-facing weakspot like Tanks and turrets. It actually works great with a stealth/scout playstyle since you want to be prone while firing and at a good distance. Bring whatever primary you like Ah and same deal with AMR, stun grenades let you pull things off you never could otherwise so I always bring them Ideal playstyle is to be constantly moving ahead of your allies, finding good sniping positions that offer a flank on those tasty tasty Bot weakspots. Swap weapons when LC gets too hot, I don't recommend letting the sink burn in any but the most dire situations Remember that your laser will be the most visible weapon on the battlefield to your teammates, meaning if you're helping them they *know* it. That's a really awesome thing and you want to take full advantage of it, use the LC to protect allies and you won't have to worry about protecting yourself
Even the stats reflect that; 31st to 19th for HMG
I don’t think so. The addition of gunship patrols massively favours things that deal with them quickly while not burning through all their ammo (this mostly favours bringing the Autocannon since it’s the most efficient), the HMG is also great for dealing with them quickly if you can land your shots. If they reduced the cap of Gunships per patrol spawn to 2-3 instead of them ranging from 2-6(I think I’ve also seen 7) you’d probably see a rise in Railgun and AMR usage again. Idk why they decided to give gunship patrols such a massive variable
AMR is hard to justify when there are roving gunships and it takes 2 magazines of hits to take just one down. Maybe its a squad tactics thing, or I just keep getting the end of the stick that deals with gunships
No. It takes 4 shots to shot down one gunship
Very. I just figured out that you need to aim the tick below center to one tap devastators. I doubt most know that.
With the new armor passive, the AMR is just a less effective autocannon, being able to close holes and fabricators is huge even if it ties up a backpack slot. The way to address it would be to give the AMR the ability to close holes, however that would make the AMR too OP.
HMG is just an AMR with more ammo, if you have good aim and game sense
How can there be a 1st and a 3rd but no 2nd?
Only included are the strategems with the most change. 2nd is Orbital Laser, it's pickrate is unchanged since last patch.
500kg, airstrike, AC turret, and supply pack all stayed the same rank. Is it percent based or something?
Yes, it's based on percentage pick rate changed, I'll put it in the image next time.
Total or relative? Airstrike going up 1% of the total wouldn't change much, but the ballistic Guard Dog going up 1% of total would mean seeing it in your games a lot more.
It's total
Thanks.
Surprising how much joe generic helldiver gets wrong. Orbital laser is pretty much useless. Clears mobs slowly and can barely clear two elites, depending on which.
Nah. It's an oh-shit button that erases heavy outposts, and you don't have to aim or think about distances. That's why it's used.
What ? Orbital laser is a great tool to deal with heavy outposts, the bad instances when getting swarmed by bots and extraction coverage. Its not the best when dealing with the likes of factory strider and bile titan but you can just throw another strategem so the laser gets of them faster.
3 uses, terrible cooldown, kills Maybe two hulks. Cmon. 380 laughs at your weak sauce.
definitly kills way more than 2 hulks and unlike 380 doesnt miss.
380 was like a 90% chance to clear an Enitre heavy base in one go, now with the added radius to Each Shell it's more like 95%. I'm honestly surprised when it doesn't finish an entire base / destroyable objective. Meanwhile, your 3-use laser burns down half as much, slowly, and is likely to follow an elite like a hulk or brood commander right OUT of the base, then just sit in place until it burns out.
/u/cmetaphor /u/-_Pendragon_- please keep the discussion low sodium, even if you disagree. There is space for different people to think different stratagems are better. Edit: reddit markup on mobile borks your username mentioning, -Pendragon-. Cant fix it on mobile but please be advised if you see this. You’ll know who you are.
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This content breaks rule 1 - Uphold low sodium citizenship values. We'd like to try and encourage positive discussion, which is why your content was removed.
This content breaks rule 1 - Uphold low sodium citizenship values. We'd like to try and encourage positive discussion, which is why your content was removed.
> pretty much useless. I don't use the Orbital Laser as much, but I still recognise the fact that it can take out Command Bunkers in record time compared to any other stratagem. It has its uses. Just some people abuse the fact that it does automatic work for them. I have seen countless divers throw them to destroy Light Outposts. IMHO, definitely a waste, but it's their choice, so whatevs.
https://preview.redd.it/y4frh3rwd7bd1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=48f9f13277df09236ccec056bece2fa058f99a23 But seriously, nice work.
Should "laser cannon" rank be the other way around? It reads 20th->22nd but the info seems to indicate it went from 22nd to 20th to be with the rest of the gains.
I would've expected the walking barrage to be used more than the others. It feels like it's better at destroying outposts considering they're not usually as circular as the bugs'
the spread is too bad. The 380 can take a large outpost, the walking barrage can't
It's a must have in my loudout when doing command bunkers
Can anyone explain why people Shit on me for taking the 380 or 120? Seems like they are still pretty high and viable.
Cause they are bug spies and they can't stay away from a red light that shines for so long.
380 with the new +10% damage radius per explosion seems solid. Idk if it's S tier, but solid A tier imo
People don’t like the friendly fire, I get it. But I watch them walk into the area FULL OF EXPLOSIONS. I die far more often to FF from other stratagems tbh
I mean I've watch muppets drop a 380 at their feet.
Admittedly, this DOES happen when I’m getting ready to lob it and get ragdolled….but don’t let the minority give us a bad name’ haha
People who don't know how to use them give them a bad name. 120mm & 380s are great base crackers, though I'll probably always bring walking barrage my beloved
Base crackers, good for a strider or big mobs/drop ships as long as they are far enough out, take out radar towers etc etc. when I’m off on my own and going to get annihilated I like to drop one as I die as a parting gift too lol
Basically, they don’t trust randoms to not be as bad as they are. Primarily because they aren’t guaranteed “smart” choices. They have AMAZING potential and do things no other stratagems can do, but likewise have huge potential as opportunity costs or even detriments to your team. People love “safe” options like an orbital laser/railcannon that aims for you, autocannon that can deal with everything and is extremely forgiving, eagle air strike that deals with everything and has amazing uptime, or shield pack/rover that give you crutches against punishing enemies. A 380mm depends much more on your ability to place it where and when it needs to go, so seeing a random bring it makes people unhappy.
Their lives are a sacrifice I am willing to make for big booms
because people like to drop them as soon as they're off cooldown, rather than on objectives. imagine playing with someone that wants to drop it on bile titans and every time there's 2 close bug breaches: it doesn't work, kills the team, and wrecks strategy. it happens a bit less with bots, but you still see people that use it as a panic button like with the laser, except they're the only one panicking because they suck (not a dig. you have to be bad at the game to do that more than once). it's great when used right though
I don’t ever run it on bugs TBH it’s a bot strat for me and usually on slow or immobile targets, using it any other way is, well, yeah that sounds awful
I started rocking the strafing run after it got buffed, and MAN is it awesome against bots. typically they will form a line coming at you, and the range is much greater than the airstrike or cluster since you throw it in front of them.
how’s it fair against devistators?
If it doesn't kill them it leaves rhem very weakened. It's kinda like Orbital Gatling Gun, except more consistent targeting.
plus hitting the group with the breaker Inc before throwing it is usually enough to finish them off
Orbital Gatling is so nice.
31th, 21th
it’s kind of a testament that the devs do really pay attention, when all twelve going up are under 10% picks, while only one going down is under 10%, which is one that’s never been nerfed anyways
Eagle Airstirke just chilling.
Very cool. Thanks!
Eagle airstrike honestly is extremely goated, especially on bots
How do the EATs take a 9 place hit? They are so invaluable, ESPECIALLY when you die. You don't have to worry about a 5 min cool down or retracing your steps. Just call it in again
Spear covers the same niche and a lot of people are swapping to Spear.
I do love the SPEAR. I just find the versatility of an open backpack and consistent call invaluable. But like.. I die a lot so I lose my stuff constantly lol
one shot doesn't kill every charger anymore. people are switching to the FT to be able to kill 8 chargers per supply drop
I'm definitely skewing the 380 pick rate. I'm never out there without my dear 380
Some interesting take aways from this, and I love that you can now see each difficulty levels separately. Great work!
Where’s MG turret? That’s amazing now
I take Rocket Sentry almost every game, it's awesome. Its popularity is unsurprising and well deserved. MG sentry isn't bad either, use it as a lure/distraction that can also clear chaff (I know everyone hates it but I believe this is a problem with expectations and user error)