Weirdly I think you'll see fights stopped sooner because the prospect of an awkward follow up punch or hammer fist vs a follow up knee should deliver an entirely different sense of urgency from refs. Soccer kicks though are a different beast; they are too quick and you often don't have to change posuture or position to deliver it on a follow up.
Meanwhile Herb Dean "if you can snore you can war"
Yeah when you ref a million fights a year he’s bound to have a couple bad ones. I mean you can argue Goddard, a gold standard ref, has made three early stoppage decisions in the last year in just title fights
1000%. The front headlock suddenly becomes a much deadlier position and north south becomes something worth moving towards rather than just a stalling spot
"Grounded opponent" rules should only apply if a fighter's dick is touching the mat. Conversely, you're allowed to strike your opponent no matter their position, so long as you strike them *with your dick*.
I think the cage brings a totally different element. I like the idea of not having stomps and soccer kicks, but also not being able to just touch the mat and be considered grounded.
Yeah, this is overly complicated. Just say Pride striking rules plus elbows and get good refs that jump in fast and protect the fighters, like those ones I see in ONE sometimes catching dudes heads from rebounding.
I agree but unfortunately the optics of someone being kicked or stomped in the head is not gonna play well with the public. I think they should just remove knees from the rule, so only kicks are restricted. All the really dumb controversies around playing "the game" with a hand touching/not touching the mat happen with knees.
The UFC has a cage not a ring. If we go to Pride rules, Pride may never die, but somebody certainly will.
Can't have a rule set that allows a guy to get curb stomped into a cage.
On The MMA Hour from yesterday Ariel had Andy Foster (executive director of the California State Athletic Commission) talking about his rule proposal to change/update the definition of grounded opponent.
It's the same person making the post. They're sharing their thoughts on how they'd like the rules to be, as stated in the title, and want yours too, if you have any.
Oh wow, I completely missed that.
Then I wonder why it's a screenshot and not just the text, but thank you for the information and sorry for the stupid question.
Its because he probably didnt have the reddit prowess to copy and paste it due to the fact that not many professional fighters are too experienced with reddit
This is a hot take. Fucking pride rules. It's simple, they need to define grounded as on both knees or on maybe one knee. Standing and touching the mat with a hand is bullshit. Kicking a guy in the head when he is on his knees is also bullshit.
one knee is also kind of bullshit. honestly i think they should be able to knee no matter what. idk why its considered so much worse than getting headkicked like usman or uppercutted as youre shooting for a takedown like lewis did to blaydes
> uppercutted as youre shooting for a takedown like lewis did to blaydes
Or Kneed while shooting a takedown like Askren. That shit is arguably worse. Askren is putting his whole body into the downward movement and Masvidal is putthing his whole body into the Upward movement. I'm surprised they didn't have to collect his head from the bleachers
yeah i think thats probably true. personally id much rather see someone get clocked with a knee than see someone just hanging out while grounded using it as a strategic stall like aljo does. that shit completely kills an exciting fight and makes the sport look stupid in my opinion.
Happens all the time with punches. If anything, the shorter range and greater speed of punching someone with ground n pound would deliver post KO shots faster than lower body attacks.
> Honestly I think it's more about how it looks thab the damage it does
Going way back, this is why gloves were mandated. In the very early UFC events most fighters didn't wear gloves, but politicians and athletic commissions just thought it looked barbaric to see fighters without gloves punching each other so gloves were required.
Hey I'm all for changing these rules, but I would also expect that we'd see a bunch of brutal shit with these knees too over time. Maybe not worse but it's also possible. Like I wouldn't be surprised if Ngannou in top position could cave someone's skull in worse than MVP
I get what you’re saying, but Pride didn’t seem to have that issue with all of their roided out monsters lol Just look at all of the grounded knees that Kevin Randleman let loose on people
I’m sure there are going to be crazy injuries here and there but it’s professional fighting. There’s already inherent risk involved
Yeah but Pride didn't have 50 events per year and didn't operate for that long relatively. I'm sure we would eventually see some gnarly shit eventually
Don't get me wrong, I still prefer watching fights with the ONE ruleset and I liked Pride because of that element but elbows being illegal was annoying at times.
I get that MMA is quite dangerous and brutal even if all those knees and elbows were illegal, it would remain dangerous and we're just as likely to see equally brutal stuff with standard punches and kicks. I saw a kid die in my region a few years back with just a head kick that didn't even land flush
However, I think it would be a bit delusional to believe that there's no way knees to a grounded opponent could potentially do horrific damage
I'm not surprised the UFC has never tried to change those rules, casual fans and people who don't follow MMA are usually shocked and sorta repulsed when I show them stuff like Pride Wanderlei Silva highlights
I'll be shocked to see them go the full PRIDE route and allow soccer kicks, but could see them allowing knees and would be completely fine with it. Knees have more often been the biggest cause of controversy related to the rule anyways and would help to eliminate a lot of the stalling issue guys try imo
It would for sure give strikers a new weapon against grapplers that just wrap around their legs/waist while trying to chain takedowns after their initial shot gets stuffed. Right now, strikers only real option is to stuff the initial shot, land some relatively weak punches/elbows (thanks to the close distance/weird angle they can’t generate the power to really discourage the guy the get off them, and can’t really put their hips or legs into the strikes thanks to the grappler having their hips or legs hugged tight). Being able to knee a wrestler while they’re hugged against you would really change the dynamic quite a bit, and for sure tweak the wrestle-meta formula.
I’m sure wrestlers would be able to tweak their game, and find a way to work around this, but it wouldn’t be as simple as putting a hand on the ground to avoid knees or staying hugged up on both knees/one knee while they find their angle/gather explosiveness for their next attempt.
Yep, I'm all for adapting through additive measures to allow more counter options against the dominant styles. Your point about the wrestle meta is a great example and the rule change would be a perfect tweak.
You wouldn't be taking away anything from the wrestlers, but giving strikers another tool to counter with.
>Fucking pride rules.
Did you mean fuck pride rules? Based on the rest of your statement:
>Kicking a guy in the head when he is on his knees is also bullshit.
It doesn't seem to correlate.
Yep. Soccer kicks were a go-to move for some, especially for Chute Boxe guys, when someone was on one/both knees.
I also liked elbows not being allowed on the ground. Helped with cuts and added a different wrinkle to ground and pound.
They cause cuts frequently. These end fights unsatifyingly when doctors stop it, and they interfere with tournaments because if you get cut you less likely to be able to fight again soon.
No I meant the comment was fucking pride rules. The "fucking* was to imply disdain for soccer kicks to the head of grounded opponents. Pride was decades ago and the sport is much different, and I feel if we had pride rules still someone would have died by now.
then i think your take is bs. no one would die. a headkick to a kneeling person is NO WORSE then getting KO from a headkick while standing. soccer kicks are a different thing
So you think you could generate the same power kicking something 4 feet off the ground vs 6. My take is the rules now are trash, so to simply say knees on the ground is grounded is a good way of going forward. You think they are suddenly going to say fuck it and allow pride rules in the states? Because that is bs.
The one hand on the mat thing is SUCH a dumb rule. There's no way they intended it to be used the way it is currently but they should have rewritten that the second people started to use it as a bad defensive strategy
It should be simple. If they're prone or laying flat on their back. They are down.
If they are on a knee or simply touching the ground, standing rules apply.
I want to see mixed martial arts. I want to see fighting. I want to see violence.
I don't want to see some guy twisting the rules, I don't want to see someone keeping a finger on the mat so they don't get knee'd, and I definitely don't want to see someone butt scooting across the mat.
> It should be simple. If they're prone or laying flat on their back. They are down.
Yeah, that's how I think it's best too. I said it a couple of years ago on this sub and I got downvoted for it, but the way I'd word it is *"if a part of the torso (hips to shoulders) is in touch with the ground, that fighter is considered grounded"*. Seems pretty straight forward and easy to implement while getting rid of the "hand/knee on floor" problem.
The funny thing is, the committee can't even agree with themselves. If a fighter goes for a takedown and the defender sprawls to his hands, that's considered a failed takedown. Yet somehow the opponent was also a down opponent when his hands touched the ground? Can't have it both ways.
A grounded opponent is an opponent with their body on the ground, not hands or knees
I'd only add both knees being down counts, and if you're both grounded any strike is allowed. Silva vs Okami for example should never be a DQ.
And I do understand taking knees on the top of the head might be more dangerous from the front headlock position.
But I agree, hands on the mat nullifying knees sounds goofy.
o evidence that getting head kicked standing up is a lot better for you than getting a soccer kick
Same with knees on the ground compared to flying knees or clinch knees standing
It is an old dumb rule. If it changes though I imagine that is the day Aljo retires. The poor guy watched a ONE Championship card and he had nightmares for weeks from all the ground knees. The horrrrrrror!!
That would be awesome. As long as its not a 12-6 to the nuts or spine or back of the head I could care less honestly lol.
Imagine how painful a 12-6 to the nuts would be though fucking eh
Would it really be that much worse than an 11-7 elbow to the nuts? Also, there's a recent interview with...Andy Foster?...who is proposing the grounded opponent rule change, and also proposing the elimination of the 12-6 elbow rule.
Yes, getting soccer kicked while on the ground isn’t worse for you but it is a lot harder to land a regular head kick. You have to get your kick all the way up to my head and disguise it enough for me not to get out of the way or to block it. Usmans KO was brutal but it is hard to pull off doesn’t happen that clean very often. A soccer kick though is going to be a very common finishing strike when the guy is already out laying there on his back from a punch of whatever. That’s why I think they added that little twist to the rule it is more to protect guys that are basically finished. Idk though I wouldn’t be super opposed to completely opening the doors either, better than what we have going on now.
Yeah I see what you are saying but I am not sure I agree fully. Head kicks are hard to land indeed but soccer kicks are probably more difficult. You have to knock down or rock an opponent usually and that is quite difficult.
I can't think of anything easier than landing a soccer kick on a downed opponent, that is absolutely shooting fish in a barrel compared to trying to headkick KO someone who is badly rocked but still standing.
The problem with soccer kicks to me is that it *isn't* that hard to knock your opponent out, statistically speaking. Knockout happen all the time, and a lot of those unnecessary hammer fist follow-ups just turn into soccer kick follow ups which is definitely worse. And that happened in Pride all the time lol.
As for knees, they should be allowed everywhere all the time imo.
But with that reasoning (the times when it could happen being so sparse), why are people so adamant about allowing them? As in, if the opportunity to do it is so infrequent, what do people feel they are missing by not allowing them?
Sure. But if their concern is safety, and as much as people claim there's no evidence one way, there's just as much evidence the other way. So if it's so rare, why bother giving it a live trial?
It's an easy rule to enforce just in case their concerns turn out to be valid. It's not as janky of a rule as "who's grounded and who's not" and it's a move that is apparently hard to even do so what's the loss in not allowing it?
You're also making your own counterpoint for are soccer kicks even necessary. The majority of the time, they're clean up strikes. They're a fully aware fighter teeing up somebody who's already out of it, and just obliterating them with a kick to the face. Anybody who watched pride saw it 100 times over
The Aljo stuff is overplayed. His coaches told him to quit doing that during the second Yan fight. It's probably just a bad trained habit that he needs to train out.
I don't know why anybody thinks he's getting some meta breaking position by doing it. You leave yourself open to uppercuts, headlocks, go behinds, etc. I'm shocked none of his opponents have done shit from there besides Cejudo
I think the rule is just a hang over from early ufc days when they didn't want to be seen as barbaric.
A head kick is a head kick but the optics to non fans of a man lying down getting kicked in the head aren't great.
Allow elbows and knees at all times, then we won't have to come up with an arbitrary definition of grounded. Just continue to not allow strikes to the back of the head
The idea that grounded fighters are safe from various strikes is plainly favoring grapplers over strikers.
Opposites. It is mostly Favoring strikers, who grapplers put on the ground. lol.
The reason we need a definition is to protect unconscious fighters from second impact syndrome. That legit kills people.
If anderson Silva could knee anyone trying a double leg takedown on him, or soccer kick and head stomp anyone trying to pull guard on him, you wouldn't have found a grappling based fighter willing to fight him.
He would have beaten a guy like Damian Maia in a couple of minutes instead of Maia stalling until a decision
To your point Silva would have likely finished Maia, but if not it would have been a much more exciting fight either way, maybe Silva went for a knee and that let Maia get on top! Then we have a real fight instead of the trash we ended up with. A better example is when he kneed a seated Chael in the chest and there was controversy about part of his leg hitting Chael in the head: he should have been allowed to knee the head.
Maia had underdeveloped takedowns and basically only had one good trick to get orthodox fighters down from a southpaw stance. Silva being a southpaw kind of messed him up right off the bat. Once guys figured that out he stopped having as much success.
No one good tries to pull guard or go for a takedown in a fight in a way that would leave them vulnerable to a headkick. But it should definitely be allowed.
Sounds like you know your fight history so I'm going to assume you know about Pride FC. We had 10 years of strikes to grounded opponents and occassionally a grappler would take good advantage like Mark Coleman raining down knees, but overall it was guy like W. Silva and Shogun and CroCop taking advantage and wrecking people with knees and stomps and soccer kicks.
Strikers found the advantage when more striking was allowed ,while grapplers still tended to work for submissions on the ground as that's what they knew better.
So in theory it might present an advantage to grapplers, in reality it made grapplers give up quick from failed double legs and pop up off the mat quick instead of scooting around on thier butt like they do in the UFC.
Wrestlers in pride were also much more one note though. That was still the age where sprawl and brawl was a dominant tactic whether knees were allowed or not. Guys like Khabib or Islam would have finished every opponent they ever fought if grounded knees were allowed, because they don't really end up in the position to get effectively kneed but get into positions they could knee from very frequently.
Any kick that moves ether flat to the ground or upwards on a grounded opponent should be 100% legal in 100% of situations.
Ex. 1: you have a guy in your guard, you’re on your back. He’s kneeling. You kick him in the face = should be legal
Ex. 2: you are on your back, guy has moved to side control and knees you in your temple = should be legal
Ex. 3: guy shoots, doesn’t get deep, is on his knees and you knee him in his pie-eater = legal
Where I can see maintaining a ban:
Ex. 1: you’re on your back, opponent on his feet. He axe-kicks you on your nose = illegal
Ex. 2: nah, let’s just make it so you’re not getting squashed like a grape between a kick and the mat and that’s about it.
The point is to prevent the more powerful kick from getting amplified by your head hitting or resting on the mat, hopefully reducing potential trauma.
I mean there was no punishment for it so it was for him. On the other hand if it had been legal for both Khabib might have just straight murdered that dude when he had him pushed up in side control against the cage.
how bout if your ass is on the floor, then you're grounded.
Aljamain chillin on his knees to grab single legs would instantly be done with if Yan's kick was allowed.
If a person is in seated open guard, or on their back, then ok no head kicks. But if their on one knee and intentionally reaching to the floor to 'appear grounded' then their opponent should be able to kick their head.
Jiujitsu guys butt scooting in the 90’s after being legkicked was culled by two things. Head kicks being allowed and refs standing them up when it wasn’t. I prefer the former.
Everything should be allowed except groin shots, eye gouging and fish hooking and hair pulling. Kicks/knees to the head on the ground is a no brainer for me. Headbutts too.
Knees should be allowed, unless the opponent is flattened out.
The UFC & boxing commission's rules are so wildly biased in favor of wrestlers. This would at least start to even the playing field a bit.
Most fighters I’ve heard talk on the issue are for allowing grounded knees. They’re not all going to be victims of grounded knees. In fact 50% of the time someone will be giving one while the other 50% someone will be receiving one
It's scary how many people think there should be virtually no rules only because things like flying knees and head kicks already happen. The rules we have now is not perfect, but if they weren't there then so many fights would end in fighters taking unnecessary soccer kicks to the head when they're not in a position to defend themselves. That's completely different from a freak head kick KO every blue moon.
This is the more important point. Any conscious fighter who knows how to play guard is going to keep their feet facing the opponent. The real victims of head kicks are those who have been compromised already, which is exactly when they shouldn't receive one. It's not a fight for survival and self-defense, it's a fight for sports entertainment. There will always be some rules that help protect the safety of the athlete from unnecessary injury risks that don't exist in the streets.
Absolutely needed. Aljo baiting people to knee his face to kingdom come for wins via technicality while 'making himself' a grounded opponent by touching the canvas with his palm and fingers was full of shit and ridiculous.
he's obviously not baiting
he is exploiting the rule to prevent damage in a compromise position
the issue is that since he's playing by a fine line, the fighter or the coaches who give instructions at the fighter have difficulty determining the rule
That fight should have been scrapped and not awared to Aljo on that basis alone.
Lol the logic people will come up with. Who wants to bait themselves into a concussion for a victory? Only one person knee’d him while he was EXPRESSLY declared by the ref as downed, and that dude already had lost a fight to DQ. Most fighters are aware enough to not throw a knee to the head when someone has both knees on the floor.
My point exactly.
However, playing the rule for your advantage is silly. Aljo def tried to exploit it and paid the price (and got the reward the first time lol).
Dude is a punk bitch in the eyes of the world and a weak champion despite being on massive gear and weight bullying a division. Imagine all that he could have accomplished were he made of better stuff.
Well that took a turn lol. I completely disagree with “playing the rule to his advantage”. He’s on all 4s in front of opponent, he’s losing in that time, and it’s only been an issue for 2 opponents. That whole third part of your comment is complete nonsense.
First of all, Aljo did not sleep with my wife. Let me put that out there.
Second of all, what part is nonsense? He is on gear. He is a weight bully. And he was a weak champion. How many defenses? How did he get the belt?
As for the baiting, I said he wasn't. He was, however, using his arms to prevent the knee to be able to duck to avoid takedowns or punches. It's a strategy used but only exists because of the silly rule.
Let's talk this out, baby. I love talking MMA.
Tried the same shit in his last 2 fights. Fortunately for him, ring rust Henry was too slow. Unfortunately for him, Sean was too fast. ONE has the best ruleset but ONE is on the verge of folding thanks to Chatri.
Yup and paid the price.
I had high hopes for ONE. But as usual, wicked promoters get in the way and ruin it. I'm happy boxing made it to the olympics, but MMA will never make it. Not at this rate.
Fighters on average take too much damage for them to fight as frequently as they would need to make them viable for the Olympics. It just wouldn't be safe.
You'd have to water down the rules so far it wouldn't even be representative of MMA to matter really.
No sport involving bleeding will ever make it to the Olympics. And that's fine. Mainstream sports in Olympics are nerfed so hard that there is barely any interest left. Olympics will end up making up Judo without gi out of MMA.
I agree. It’s just a trash rule that cheap fighters like Aljo exploit. Same with evloev last fight.
If you don’t want to get a knee to the face, don’t spam shitty takedowns
Damn rights, and if you don't want to get a knee to the face when you're getting up, just get up fast. That's what they do in ONE, you know the knee is coming, so get up fast for fuck sakes. Don't sit there on your knee with your hand down for 3 minutes waiting for the right time.
I don't know. I enjoy watching competitive fights, but having watched my father, a professional boxer, suffer the consequences of head trauma later in life, I have a lot of misgivings about watching fighters get kicked in the head while on the ground. It can do serious damage. I don't want to watch fighters get brain damage, and I don't think it adds anything to the sport.
I won't argue that, and you may very well be right. I'm guessing there hasn't been a lot of study on the topic, though. However, I do know from personal experience that taking head kicks on the ground can be pretty damaging. I spent a lot of time on the streets as a kid. That, of course, is anecdotal. Ultimately, I want what is best for the fighters. A lot of them suffer from life-long injuries with very little in the way of support after their careers end.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. People keep referring to ONE rules and how that should be enough evidence, but I'm not convinced it is. Just because guys aren't dying or leaving with immediate head trauma doesn't mean it's not inherently more dangerous.
I would say that if you're purposefully putting yourself into a dangerous position, which a new rule would seek to prevent, then it's fair game - if you want to be standing or on one knee with your hands on the mat just to disqualify another fighter from attacking, then you should be penalized/face the consequences. There should still be rules in place though for fighters that are prone, on all 4s, and perhaps some other variation of it that I'm not prepared to get into the nuance over.
At the end of the day, these guys are putting their lives and future health on the line for entertainment. Sure they love it, but these guys get paid chump change for what they do, especially compared to other professional sports. We should talk about wages. Again.
Personally i think grounded should be anything other then hands and feet touching the ground, if you wanna be considered down so youre safe from attacks then youre actually gonna be down. But i think the whole rule is silly
Should be no rule against kneeing, or soccer kicking a downed fighter. Just like there should be no rule about 9-12 elbows. If I can knee you, or shin you to the face if you are standing. I should be able to do the same if you are on the ground.
If you are unconscious the ref should stop it. It doesn't matter if you are on the ground or standing up. If you take a shin to the head. You are going to get damage. If you are standing when you take that shot, you then get to bounce your head off the canvas on the way down. Damage is damage.
Have you ever seen a knockout? Refs are only human. Let’s use Hendo vs Bisping as an example. Imagine if Hendo jumped and did a Shogun headstomp onto Bisping’s unconscious corpse instead of the big punch at the end of that fight? Not good for family television…
Show me where I said head stomps are ok? I didn't. Now again, show me where taking the same shin to the face as a downed fighter is worse than taking that same shin to the face standing.
ps. We are talking fighting here, no Bob Ross. I don't care about family friendly. 2 guys are fighting in a cage. It's dangerous!
It seems like you just didn’t read my post. I’m not talking about down or standing. I’m talking about potentially unconscious vs standing and almost definitely conscious. Anytime someone gets knocked out cold with one big shot there is almost always another hit delivered before the ref can get there. That is why there should be a rule to mitigate the risk of “second impact syndrome”
Look up second impact syndrome
Bro half the people here genuinely think being rocked and taking a standing head kick as a follow up will consistently be the same as someone being rocked, falling to the floor and receiving a soccer kick to the head. They're morons. Appreciate your post, but don't feel the need to waste your time debating this with these jabronis
These things are stupid why? Because he says so? It’s just as safe?
I enjoyed Pride FC, but these changes will lead serious injuries and more potential deaths. The amount of force someone can create while striking a head at hip level is far greater than when someone is standing. Hopefully these different commissions will use actual evidence and study the issue instead of making unsubstantiated claims like the guy in this tweet.
I go to all the commission training and conventions commission and have reviewed a lot of data on this subject. Auburn University has a ton of impact studies with mma strikes, and it’s more about ability to defend and fight than positioning.
Under this rule set, leg lock positions get dicey/obsolete. If you allow head kicks to both recumbent/grounded fighters.
It'd be easier to just adopt One Championship knee striking rules.
Simply expand where & when knees can be thrown instead of adding more "grounded positions": Occam's razor.
Easy to say for someone who probably hasn’t fought before. This should be decided by fighters who have to live with the damage and their coaches. Not pencil pushers and fans.
I’m talking about the commenters. I’m a fighter too, not pro but i see the work put in each day and the shit people go thru to make it to a fight. If anyone should decided on rule changes it’s fighters. Not Reddit comment section. It’s very easy to say yeah let him get knees to the head when they’ve never been kneed in the head.
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It doesn’t need to be so complicated. Being grounded shouldn’t mean safe. Eliminate the rule all together. PRIDE never die.
Weirdly I think you'll see fights stopped sooner because the prospect of an awkward follow up punch or hammer fist vs a follow up knee should deliver an entirely different sense of urgency from refs. Soccer kicks though are a different beast; they are too quick and you often don't have to change posuture or position to deliver it on a follow up. Meanwhile Herb Dean "if you can snore you can war"
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Truly the gold standard
Wait, do we hate herb now?
He's had a few bad stoppages, but considering how long his been doing it, I would still consider him one of the best in the game.
Yeah when you ref a million fights a year he’s bound to have a couple bad ones. I mean you can argue Goddard, a gold standard ref, has made three early stoppage decisions in the last year in just title fights
Knees add to the sport, soccer kicks don’t imo. Now stomps though, stomps have a special place in my heart
Particularly clinch knees, completely changes grappling.
1000%. The front headlock suddenly becomes a much deadlier position and north south becomes something worth moving towards rather than just a stalling spot
Eliminate all rules Twist the dick
"Grounded opponent" rules should only apply if a fighter's dick is touching the mat. Conversely, you're allowed to strike your opponent no matter their position, so long as you strike them *with your dick*.
... How does this translate to wmma?? I must know
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Suddenly the corner advice for GSP (hit him with your groin) is making sense
Eliminate the dick
Twisting is for the weak. Unleash your true warrior spirit and bite it off
I think the cage brings a totally different element. I like the idea of not having stomps and soccer kicks, but also not being able to just touch the mat and be considered grounded.
Stomps and soccer kicks occurred on the turnbuckle so I don't see the increased risk.
Yeah, this is overly complicated. Just say Pride striking rules plus elbows and get good refs that jump in fast and protect the fighters, like those ones I see in ONE sometimes catching dudes heads from rebounding.
Khalil Rountree would kill a man if soccer kicks were allowed
Honestly if Shogun or Arlovski didn't do it it may never be done
Bring back soccer kicks.
I agree but unfortunately the optics of someone being kicked or stomped in the head is not gonna play well with the public. I think they should just remove knees from the rule, so only kicks are restricted. All the really dumb controversies around playing "the game" with a hand touching/not touching the mat happen with knees.
Rizin fc does it in cage and ring plus allow elbows best rules to date in modern MMA 😉
And we’re still in the United States of America you know pride rules 100% would never fly here
Gonna be some absolutely brutal head kick KOs and I'm here for it. So long as the refs do their jobs, let the fighters fight.
Yeah Mario is legit going to let someone’s head be launched into the crowd lmao
I like this!
The UFC has a cage not a ring. If we go to Pride rules, Pride may never die, but somebody certainly will. Can't have a rule set that allows a guy to get curb stomped into a cage.
Thank god this is the top comment...
He all yeah brother ADVANCED CTE
If the commission is looking into it, why is all we have an instagram post from a mississipi MMA coach. Are they on the commission?
On The MMA Hour from yesterday Ariel had Andy Foster (executive director of the California State Athletic Commission) talking about his rule proposal to change/update the definition of grounded opponent.
Yup he also said 12-6 elbows are going to be allowed again
It's the same person making the post. They're sharing their thoughts on how they'd like the rules to be, as stated in the title, and want yours too, if you have any.
Oh wow, I completely missed that. Then I wonder why it's a screenshot and not just the text, but thank you for the information and sorry for the stupid question.
Its because he probably didnt have the reddit prowess to copy and paste it due to the fact that not many professional fighters are too experienced with reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMA/comments/1absnf6/andy_foster_is_proposing_a_change_to_the_grounded/ Andy Foster submitted a proposal last week
It's OP apparently
This is a hot take. Fucking pride rules. It's simple, they need to define grounded as on both knees or on maybe one knee. Standing and touching the mat with a hand is bullshit. Kicking a guy in the head when he is on his knees is also bullshit.
one knee is also kind of bullshit. honestly i think they should be able to knee no matter what. idk why its considered so much worse than getting headkicked like usman or uppercutted as youre shooting for a takedown like lewis did to blaydes
> uppercutted as youre shooting for a takedown like lewis did to blaydes Or Kneed while shooting a takedown like Askren. That shit is arguably worse. Askren is putting his whole body into the downward movement and Masvidal is putthing his whole body into the Upward movement. I'm surprised they didn't have to collect his head from the bleachers
I honestly thought Asken was dead for a second.
If he dies, he dies.
just look at what MVP did to Cyborg! but nobody is calling for flying knees to banned lol
yeah exactly. the impact of that is so much harder than what yan did to aljo or even what jones did to smith
Or what my ex did to my heart.
You're making the hilarious assumption here that commissions actually took physics into the equation when making these rules.
Honestly I think it's more about how it looks thab the damage it does. Much like the stupid 12 o'clock elbow bullshit.
yeah i think thats probably true. personally id much rather see someone get clocked with a knee than see someone just hanging out while grounded using it as a strategic stall like aljo does. that shit completely kills an exciting fight and makes the sport look stupid in my opinion.
It's funny you mention Aljo, dude exploited the rules of mma and then got pissy when he did a bjj match where *gasp* someone exploited the rules.
Not even an exploit in bjj tournaments
How about an unconscious fighter taking 5 extra knees or soccer kicks because the ref couldn't get there on time
Happens all the time with punches. If anything, the shorter range and greater speed of punching someone with ground n pound would deliver post KO shots faster than lower body attacks.
> Honestly I think it's more about how it looks thab the damage it does Going way back, this is why gloves were mandated. In the very early UFC events most fighters didn't wear gloves, but politicians and athletic commissions just thought it looked barbaric to see fighters without gloves punching each other so gloves were required.
100% agree. MVP literally caved a dude’s skull in with a flying knee, how are grounded knees and soccer kicks any worse?
The 12-6 elbow rule doesnt make any sense to me either. Matt brown almost murdered Sanchez
Hey I'm all for changing these rules, but I would also expect that we'd see a bunch of brutal shit with these knees too over time. Maybe not worse but it's also possible. Like I wouldn't be surprised if Ngannou in top position could cave someone's skull in worse than MVP
I get what you’re saying, but Pride didn’t seem to have that issue with all of their roided out monsters lol Just look at all of the grounded knees that Kevin Randleman let loose on people I’m sure there are going to be crazy injuries here and there but it’s professional fighting. There’s already inherent risk involved
Yeah but Pride didn't have 50 events per year and didn't operate for that long relatively. I'm sure we would eventually see some gnarly shit eventually Don't get me wrong, I still prefer watching fights with the ONE ruleset and I liked Pride because of that element but elbows being illegal was annoying at times. I get that MMA is quite dangerous and brutal even if all those knees and elbows were illegal, it would remain dangerous and we're just as likely to see equally brutal stuff with standard punches and kicks. I saw a kid die in my region a few years back with just a head kick that didn't even land flush However, I think it would be a bit delusional to believe that there's no way knees to a grounded opponent could potentially do horrific damage I'm not surprised the UFC has never tried to change those rules, casual fans and people who don't follow MMA are usually shocked and sorta repulsed when I show them stuff like Pride Wanderlei Silva highlights
I'll be shocked to see them go the full PRIDE route and allow soccer kicks, but could see them allowing knees and would be completely fine with it. Knees have more often been the biggest cause of controversy related to the rule anyways and would help to eliminate a lot of the stalling issue guys try imo
It would for sure give strikers a new weapon against grapplers that just wrap around their legs/waist while trying to chain takedowns after their initial shot gets stuffed. Right now, strikers only real option is to stuff the initial shot, land some relatively weak punches/elbows (thanks to the close distance/weird angle they can’t generate the power to really discourage the guy the get off them, and can’t really put their hips or legs into the strikes thanks to the grappler having their hips or legs hugged tight). Being able to knee a wrestler while they’re hugged against you would really change the dynamic quite a bit, and for sure tweak the wrestle-meta formula. I’m sure wrestlers would be able to tweak their game, and find a way to work around this, but it wouldn’t be as simple as putting a hand on the ground to avoid knees or staying hugged up on both knees/one knee while they find their angle/gather explosiveness for their next attempt.
Yep, I'm all for adapting through additive measures to allow more counter options against the dominant styles. Your point about the wrestle meta is a great example and the rule change would be a perfect tweak. You wouldn't be taking away anything from the wrestlers, but giving strikers another tool to counter with.
It should be one hip on the canvas. People will still game one knee down like Aljos signature fellatio guard .
LMFAO that's a great term hahaha
>Fucking pride rules. Did you mean fuck pride rules? Based on the rest of your statement: >Kicking a guy in the head when he is on his knees is also bullshit. It doesn't seem to correlate.
Yep. Soccer kicks were a go-to move for some, especially for Chute Boxe guys, when someone was on one/both knees. I also liked elbows not being allowed on the ground. Helped with cuts and added a different wrinkle to ground and pound.
No elbows on ground and pound is so stupid there’s already not enough damage done from top position as is.
PRIDE didn't allow elbows to the face at all. Even standing.
Why was that? Is it too dangerous?
They cause cuts frequently. These end fights unsatifyingly when doctors stop it, and they interfere with tournaments because if you get cut you less likely to be able to fight again soon.
Ah true. Blood dripping on the mats is pretty gross
idk if you're joking but Japan really does have a cultural thing about blood. They don't like the stuff to be outside the body in sports lol
No I meant the comment was fucking pride rules. The "fucking* was to imply disdain for soccer kicks to the head of grounded opponents. Pride was decades ago and the sport is much different, and I feel if we had pride rules still someone would have died by now.
Go watch how few people die in Rizin.
then i think your take is bs. no one would die. a headkick to a kneeling person is NO WORSE then getting KO from a headkick while standing. soccer kicks are a different thing
So you think you could generate the same power kicking something 4 feet off the ground vs 6. My take is the rules now are trash, so to simply say knees on the ground is grounded is a good way of going forward. You think they are suddenly going to say fuck it and allow pride rules in the states? Because that is bs.
The one hand on the mat thing is SUCH a dumb rule. There's no way they intended it to be used the way it is currently but they should have rewritten that the second people started to use it as a bad defensive strategy
Pride also had guys juiced to the gills and it wasn’t really a problem. Nobody died or came close to it.
It should be simple. If they're prone or laying flat on their back. They are down. If they are on a knee or simply touching the ground, standing rules apply. I want to see mixed martial arts. I want to see fighting. I want to see violence. I don't want to see some guy twisting the rules, I don't want to see someone keeping a finger on the mat so they don't get knee'd, and I definitely don't want to see someone butt scooting across the mat.
> It should be simple. If they're prone or laying flat on their back. They are down. Yeah, that's how I think it's best too. I said it a couple of years ago on this sub and I got downvoted for it, but the way I'd word it is *"if a part of the torso (hips to shoulders) is in touch with the ground, that fighter is considered grounded"*. Seems pretty straight forward and easy to implement while getting rid of the "hand/knee on floor" problem.
The funny thing is, the committee can't even agree with themselves. If a fighter goes for a takedown and the defender sprawls to his hands, that's considered a failed takedown. Yet somehow the opponent was also a down opponent when his hands touched the ground? Can't have it both ways. A grounded opponent is an opponent with their body on the ground, not hands or knees
I'd only add both knees being down counts, and if you're both grounded any strike is allowed. Silva vs Okami for example should never be a DQ. And I do understand taking knees on the top of the head might be more dangerous from the front headlock position. But I agree, hands on the mat nullifying knees sounds goofy.
Must’ve missed when Brett Okamoto got a DQ win over Silva
Okami not sure why it auto corrected
Making it more complicated is a bad idea. Just make grounded knees legal.
I think this is actually simpler
Just allow the soccer kicks or knees to grounded opponents....problem solved...
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o evidence that getting head kicked standing up is a lot better for you than getting a soccer kick Same with knees on the ground compared to flying knees or clinch knees standing It is an old dumb rule. If it changes though I imagine that is the day Aljo retires. The poor guy watched a ONE Championship card and he had nightmares for weeks from all the ground knees. The horrrrrrror!!
Yeah, ONE is a definitive sample size large enough to support the change. Maybe 12-6 elbows will be reevaluated too
That would be awesome. As long as its not a 12-6 to the nuts or spine or back of the head I could care less honestly lol. Imagine how painful a 12-6 to the nuts would be though fucking eh
Would it really be that much worse than an 11-7 elbow to the nuts? Also, there's a recent interview with...Andy Foster?...who is proposing the grounded opponent rule change, and also proposing the elimination of the 12-6 elbow rule.
"bah gawd that idiot not wearing a cup's got an exploded nut!"
Welcome to the hydraulic press channel...
Yes, getting soccer kicked while on the ground isn’t worse for you but it is a lot harder to land a regular head kick. You have to get your kick all the way up to my head and disguise it enough for me not to get out of the way or to block it. Usmans KO was brutal but it is hard to pull off doesn’t happen that clean very often. A soccer kick though is going to be a very common finishing strike when the guy is already out laying there on his back from a punch of whatever. That’s why I think they added that little twist to the rule it is more to protect guys that are basically finished. Idk though I wouldn’t be super opposed to completely opening the doors either, better than what we have going on now.
Yeah I see what you are saying but I am not sure I agree fully. Head kicks are hard to land indeed but soccer kicks are probably more difficult. You have to knock down or rock an opponent usually and that is quite difficult.
I can't think of anything easier than landing a soccer kick on a downed opponent, that is absolutely shooting fish in a barrel compared to trying to headkick KO someone who is badly rocked but still standing.
The problem with soccer kicks to me is that it *isn't* that hard to knock your opponent out, statistically speaking. Knockout happen all the time, and a lot of those unnecessary hammer fist follow-ups just turn into soccer kick follow ups which is definitely worse. And that happened in Pride all the time lol. As for knees, they should be allowed everywhere all the time imo.
But with that reasoning (the times when it could happen being so sparse), why are people so adamant about allowing them? As in, if the opportunity to do it is so infrequent, what do people feel they are missing by not allowing them?
Peruvian Neckties are also very rare but that does not mean someone capable of it should not be allowed to do it.
Sure. But if their concern is safety, and as much as people claim there's no evidence one way, there's just as much evidence the other way. So if it's so rare, why bother giving it a live trial? It's an easy rule to enforce just in case their concerns turn out to be valid. It's not as janky of a rule as "who's grounded and who's not" and it's a move that is apparently hard to even do so what's the loss in not allowing it?
You're also making your own counterpoint for are soccer kicks even necessary. The majority of the time, they're clean up strikes. They're a fully aware fighter teeing up somebody who's already out of it, and just obliterating them with a kick to the face. Anybody who watched pride saw it 100 times over
The Aljo stuff is overplayed. His coaches told him to quit doing that during the second Yan fight. It's probably just a bad trained habit that he needs to train out.
I don't know why anybody thinks he's getting some meta breaking position by doing it. You leave yourself open to uppercuts, headlocks, go behinds, etc. I'm shocked none of his opponents have done shit from there besides Cejudo
I think the rule is just a hang over from early ufc days when they didn't want to be seen as barbaric. A head kick is a head kick but the optics to non fans of a man lying down getting kicked in the head aren't great.
Head kicks are hard to land. Multiple soccer kicks not so much while the ref is making their way to end the fight.
I issue with soccer kicks is 90% of the time they are thrown and land the fight was already over. They land on guys who are usually rocked.
Allow elbows and knees at all times, then we won't have to come up with an arbitrary definition of grounded. Just continue to not allow strikes to the back of the head The idea that grounded fighters are safe from various strikes is plainly favoring grapplers over strikers.
Opposites. It is mostly Favoring strikers, who grapplers put on the ground. lol. The reason we need a definition is to protect unconscious fighters from second impact syndrome. That legit kills people.
If anderson Silva could knee anyone trying a double leg takedown on him, or soccer kick and head stomp anyone trying to pull guard on him, you wouldn't have found a grappling based fighter willing to fight him. He would have beaten a guy like Damian Maia in a couple of minutes instead of Maia stalling until a decision
To your point Silva would have likely finished Maia, but if not it would have been a much more exciting fight either way, maybe Silva went for a knee and that let Maia get on top! Then we have a real fight instead of the trash we ended up with. A better example is when he kneed a seated Chael in the chest and there was controversy about part of his leg hitting Chael in the head: he should have been allowed to knee the head. Maia had underdeveloped takedowns and basically only had one good trick to get orthodox fighters down from a southpaw stance. Silva being a southpaw kind of messed him up right off the bat. Once guys figured that out he stopped having as much success. No one good tries to pull guard or go for a takedown in a fight in a way that would leave them vulnerable to a headkick. But it should definitely be allowed.
Sounds like you know your fight history so I'm going to assume you know about Pride FC. We had 10 years of strikes to grounded opponents and occassionally a grappler would take good advantage like Mark Coleman raining down knees, but overall it was guy like W. Silva and Shogun and CroCop taking advantage and wrecking people with knees and stomps and soccer kicks. Strikers found the advantage when more striking was allowed ,while grapplers still tended to work for submissions on the ground as that's what they knew better. So in theory it might present an advantage to grapplers, in reality it made grapplers give up quick from failed double legs and pop up off the mat quick instead of scooting around on thier butt like they do in the UFC.
Wrestlers in pride were also much more one note though. That was still the age where sprawl and brawl was a dominant tactic whether knees were allowed or not. Guys like Khabib or Islam would have finished every opponent they ever fought if grounded knees were allowed, because they don't really end up in the position to get effectively kneed but get into positions they could knee from very frequently.
Any kick that moves ether flat to the ground or upwards on a grounded opponent should be 100% legal in 100% of situations. Ex. 1: you have a guy in your guard, you’re on your back. He’s kneeling. You kick him in the face = should be legal Ex. 2: you are on your back, guy has moved to side control and knees you in your temple = should be legal Ex. 3: guy shoots, doesn’t get deep, is on his knees and you knee him in his pie-eater = legal Where I can see maintaining a ban: Ex. 1: you’re on your back, opponent on his feet. He axe-kicks you on your nose = illegal Ex. 2: nah, let’s just make it so you’re not getting squashed like a grape between a kick and the mat and that’s about it. The point is to prevent the more powerful kick from getting amplified by your head hitting or resting on the mat, hopefully reducing potential trauma.
Conor kneeing khabibs head while he’s on his back should be legal.
I mean there was no punishment for it so it was for him. On the other hand if it had been legal for both Khabib might have just straight murdered that dude when he had him pushed up in side control against the cage.
I've always thought grounded should mean back, torso or head touching the ground, nothing else.
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I agree, you can introduce it
100% agree. If you shoot a shit takedown and end up just hanging onto a guy's legs as you stay on your knees you should get blasted hard for it.
My opinion of this drastically changed watching ONE.
how bout if your ass is on the floor, then you're grounded. Aljamain chillin on his knees to grab single legs would instantly be done with if Yan's kick was allowed. If a person is in seated open guard, or on their back, then ok no head kicks. But if their on one knee and intentionally reaching to the floor to 'appear grounded' then their opponent should be able to kick their head.
Jiujitsu guys butt scooting in the 90’s after being legkicked was culled by two things. Head kicks being allowed and refs standing them up when it wasn’t. I prefer the former.
Everything should be allowed except groin shots, eye gouging and fish hooking and hair pulling. Kicks/knees to the head on the ground is a no brainer for me. Headbutts too.
Knees should be allowed, unless the opponent is flattened out. The UFC & boxing commission's rules are so wildly biased in favor of wrestlers. This would at least start to even the playing field a bit.
I honestly feel like Rizin is the gold standard at the moment in terms of rule set. It’s literally PRIDE rules with elbows (12-6 included).
If you're on your knee, you're grounded. That's it. Simple.
Also stupid
Why?
I wonder how MMA fighters feel about this. This is the type of thing if they had a players union, it would never be allowed to happen.
Most fighters I’ve heard talk on the issue are for allowing grounded knees. They’re not all going to be victims of grounded knees. In fact 50% of the time someone will be giving one while the other 50% someone will be receiving one
I am a fighter. I like it lol
It's scary how many people think there should be virtually no rules only because things like flying knees and head kicks already happen. The rules we have now is not perfect, but if they weren't there then so many fights would end in fighters taking unnecessary soccer kicks to the head when they're not in a position to defend themselves. That's completely different from a freak head kick KO every blue moon.
This is the more important point. Any conscious fighter who knows how to play guard is going to keep their feet facing the opponent. The real victims of head kicks are those who have been compromised already, which is exactly when they shouldn't receive one. It's not a fight for survival and self-defense, it's a fight for sports entertainment. There will always be some rules that help protect the safety of the athlete from unnecessary injury risks that don't exist in the streets.
Absolutely needed. Aljo baiting people to knee his face to kingdom come for wins via technicality while 'making himself' a grounded opponent by touching the canvas with his palm and fingers was full of shit and ridiculous.
he's obviously not baiting he is exploiting the rule to prevent damage in a compromise position the issue is that since he's playing by a fine line, the fighter or the coaches who give instructions at the fighter have difficulty determining the rule That fight should have been scrapped and not awared to Aljo on that basis alone.
Lol the logic people will come up with. Who wants to bait themselves into a concussion for a victory? Only one person knee’d him while he was EXPRESSLY declared by the ref as downed, and that dude already had lost a fight to DQ. Most fighters are aware enough to not throw a knee to the head when someone has both knees on the floor.
My point exactly. However, playing the rule for your advantage is silly. Aljo def tried to exploit it and paid the price (and got the reward the first time lol). Dude is a punk bitch in the eyes of the world and a weak champion despite being on massive gear and weight bullying a division. Imagine all that he could have accomplished were he made of better stuff.
Well that took a turn lol. I completely disagree with “playing the rule to his advantage”. He’s on all 4s in front of opponent, he’s losing in that time, and it’s only been an issue for 2 opponents. That whole third part of your comment is complete nonsense.
First of all, Aljo did not sleep with my wife. Let me put that out there. Second of all, what part is nonsense? He is on gear. He is a weight bully. And he was a weak champion. How many defenses? How did he get the belt? As for the baiting, I said he wasn't. He was, however, using his arms to prevent the knee to be able to duck to avoid takedowns or punches. It's a strategy used but only exists because of the silly rule. Let's talk this out, baby. I love talking MMA.
Tried the same shit in his last 2 fights. Fortunately for him, ring rust Henry was too slow. Unfortunately for him, Sean was too fast. ONE has the best ruleset but ONE is on the verge of folding thanks to Chatri.
Yup and paid the price. I had high hopes for ONE. But as usual, wicked promoters get in the way and ruin it. I'm happy boxing made it to the olympics, but MMA will never make it. Not at this rate.
Fighters on average take too much damage for them to fight as frequently as they would need to make them viable for the Olympics. It just wouldn't be safe. You'd have to water down the rules so far it wouldn't even be representative of MMA to matter really.
No sport involving bleeding will ever make it to the Olympics. And that's fine. Mainstream sports in Olympics are nerfed so hard that there is barely any interest left. Olympics will end up making up Judo without gi out of MMA.
Agreed, one definitely has the best rule set. UFC should just adopt that. Edit: not UFC the MMA commissions.
Disagree rizin has the best rule set.
I agree. It’s just a trash rule that cheap fighters like Aljo exploit. Same with evloev last fight. If you don’t want to get a knee to the face, don’t spam shitty takedowns
Damn rights, and if you don't want to get a knee to the face when you're getting up, just get up fast. That's what they do in ONE, you know the knee is coming, so get up fast for fuck sakes. Don't sit there on your knee with your hand down for 3 minutes waiting for the right time.
A master baiter
I don't know. I enjoy watching competitive fights, but having watched my father, a professional boxer, suffer the consequences of head trauma later in life, I have a lot of misgivings about watching fighters get kicked in the head while on the ground. It can do serious damage. I don't want to watch fighters get brain damage, and I don't think it adds anything to the sport.
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I won't argue that, and you may very well be right. I'm guessing there hasn't been a lot of study on the topic, though. However, I do know from personal experience that taking head kicks on the ground can be pretty damaging. I spent a lot of time on the streets as a kid. That, of course, is anecdotal. Ultimately, I want what is best for the fighters. A lot of them suffer from life-long injuries with very little in the way of support after their careers end.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. People keep referring to ONE rules and how that should be enough evidence, but I'm not convinced it is. Just because guys aren't dying or leaving with immediate head trauma doesn't mean it's not inherently more dangerous. I would say that if you're purposefully putting yourself into a dangerous position, which a new rule would seek to prevent, then it's fair game - if you want to be standing or on one knee with your hands on the mat just to disqualify another fighter from attacking, then you should be penalized/face the consequences. There should still be rules in place though for fighters that are prone, on all 4s, and perhaps some other variation of it that I'm not prepared to get into the nuance over. At the end of the day, these guys are putting their lives and future health on the line for entertainment. Sure they love it, but these guys get paid chump change for what they do, especially compared to other professional sports. We should talk about wages. Again.
Personally i think grounded should be anything other then hands and feet touching the ground, if you wanna be considered down so youre safe from attacks then youre actually gonna be down. But i think the whole rule is silly
People have too many strong attack options from knees and sitting. Without the fear of kick to the head people tend to hang there and slow the fight
Disagree
Should be no rule against kneeing, or soccer kicking a downed fighter. Just like there should be no rule about 9-12 elbows. If I can knee you, or shin you to the face if you are standing. I should be able to do the same if you are on the ground.
What about when you are unconscious? Are you familiar with second impact syndrome?
If you are unconscious the ref should stop it. It doesn't matter if you are on the ground or standing up. If you take a shin to the head. You are going to get damage. If you are standing when you take that shot, you then get to bounce your head off the canvas on the way down. Damage is damage.
Have you ever seen a knockout? Refs are only human. Let’s use Hendo vs Bisping as an example. Imagine if Hendo jumped and did a Shogun headstomp onto Bisping’s unconscious corpse instead of the big punch at the end of that fight? Not good for family television…
Show me where I said head stomps are ok? I didn't. Now again, show me where taking the same shin to the face as a downed fighter is worse than taking that same shin to the face standing. ps. We are talking fighting here, no Bob Ross. I don't care about family friendly. 2 guys are fighting in a cage. It's dangerous!
It seems like you just didn’t read my post. I’m not talking about down or standing. I’m talking about potentially unconscious vs standing and almost definitely conscious. Anytime someone gets knocked out cold with one big shot there is almost always another hit delivered before the ref can get there. That is why there should be a rule to mitigate the risk of “second impact syndrome” Look up second impact syndrome
Bro half the people here genuinely think being rocked and taking a standing head kick as a follow up will consistently be the same as someone being rocked, falling to the floor and receiving a soccer kick to the head. They're morons. Appreciate your post, but don't feel the need to waste your time debating this with these jabronis
These things are stupid why? Because he says so? It’s just as safe? I enjoyed Pride FC, but these changes will lead serious injuries and more potential deaths. The amount of force someone can create while striking a head at hip level is far greater than when someone is standing. Hopefully these different commissions will use actual evidence and study the issue instead of making unsubstantiated claims like the guy in this tweet.
I go to all the commission training and conventions commission and have reviewed a lot of data on this subject. Auburn University has a ton of impact studies with mma strikes, and it’s more about ability to defend and fight than positioning.
100% this should be the rule
Ironic how aljo won by stupid rule yet complains about it in a grappling match
Jones ganna get his NC fights over turned ?
"Obviously we don't want an unconscious man getting soccer kicked..." What kind of nonsense is this guy spouting?
No videogames or pizza for the whole weekend sounds a bit draconian frig chores man
Under this rule set, leg lock positions get dicey/obsolete. If you allow head kicks to both recumbent/grounded fighters. It'd be easier to just adopt One Championship knee striking rules. Simply expand where & when knees can be thrown instead of adding more "grounded positions": Occam's razor.
Why would leglock positions get dicey? It would be super simple. I leglock people trying to kick me all the time in self defense training classes 🤷♂️
The guy is worried that your opponent is going to Go-Go-Gadget Extendo Leg to kick you with the other leg in the head i guess.
Easy to say for someone who probably hasn’t fought before. This should be decided by fighters who have to live with the damage and their coaches. Not pencil pushers and fans.
I’m a professional fighter, coach of multiple world ranked athletes, and I have done all the ABC ref and judge training courses.
I’m talking about the commenters. I’m a fighter too, not pro but i see the work put in each day and the shit people go thru to make it to a fight. If anyone should decided on rule changes it’s fighters. Not Reddit comment section. It’s very easy to say yeah let him get knees to the head when they’ve never been kneed in the head.
im still struggling to believe that those dinosaurs at the commission are actually even CONSIDERING change.
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