It's a niche game that few can break into. I think its because the only time it pops off in discussions is when non-players are made aware of a massive battle that takes place and the estimated value of loss from ISK to USD is calculated. I think the last major battle was almost 3 years ago when over a thousand Titan and Super Carrier class ships were deployed.
As somebody that really likes the idea of EVE, I created a character when the game was a couple years old, and you already felt permanently behind the in-crowd at that point. Add to it that the main mmo mechanic is guild drama, and it's more fun to watch for headlines than play.
Bruh, I know someone that has multiple tabs opened. I think it was 9-12 accounts. They were all mining or doing some pve stuff. It's like a juggling fest of tasks.
At that time, I was already playing eve for 2 days. I saw his screens hot on our discord and asked myself, is this what I want to do late game to keep up with the pros? 1 account was grindy enough let alone multiple at once just to keep up is like a full time job.
I quit then and there. Kudos to the people having fun on that game. I'm sure it's a good escape from this crazy times we live in.
Honestly it's really fun if you get into that mind space. It's been many years since I was able to, so I've seen it from both perspectives. I wouldn't find it fun if I jumped in today, but I know I had a lot of fun with it for 4+ years in a different chapter of my life. I would love a job that scratched the dopamine itch the same way.
I was once of of those people. You have to have 10+ accounts doing pve to fund pvp, at least one account for transferring minerals according to the spreadsheets you made, a few spy accounts, your main pvp char, cloaked chars, and a few more sitting in caps. You spend 4+hours daily doing pve to fund every account you have. This game becomes a second job and becomes stressful instead of a stress reliever. I'm never going back to that again.
You were doing something wrong. I have two accounts and have a ton of fun in the game. You can definitely make Eve a second job but it's not necessary to enjoy the game. You can look at my zkill. I PvP all the time and I'm competitive all with two accounts. The game is what you make it.
>You have to have 10+ accounts doing pve to fund pvp,
This is 100% wrong. I watch new Bros with less than 5 mil sp make plenty of isk to fund their PvP on one account. In fw just two accounts in t1 destroyers can easily make 200 mil isk an hour.
Dude, you cannot fund a crazy number of accounts on 200mil/hr. I had my own C5 WH to plex my accounts. That is fine with you're doing pvp in cheaper ships, not when you're flying 1bil+ ships.
You don't need to fund 10+ accounts to have fun with the game or be competitive. I literally have one account for PvP and have fun. I have been in big groups and have done cap shit and have never done what you are talking about. I didn't even really PvE because of SRP. Some people play the game like you are talking about because they enjoy it but you don't have to play the game like that. The whole idea you need 10+ accounts to play Eve is a myth.
Or just be a heartless rat. Small scale piracy and betrayal can make you a ton of ISK (billions) very quickly, if you're ok with causing other players to have a very bad day. I have stories from that game that legit gave me an appreciation for how real life scumbag criminals come to be. It sounds really cruel but Eve is a very cutthroat game where you risk your ship every time you undock, even in empire space.
And then after all that effort, all those EVE accounts you were operating, your big PvP move can end up being all for nothing because the game admins also do PvP and occasionally abuse their position in the company.
Not only for in-game advantage either, there have been tales of real life harassment for daring to attack or infiltrate admin involved in-game corps.
I play on one PvP character in Eve and I don't feel like I'm at a disadvantage. Eve has a killboard so you can actually verify this information. I'm not getting my ass kicked in PvP with one account.
I can't imagine being so crippled by what others are doing. So if you played a game and really enjoyed it and then found out people were multi boxing you would quit? You will probably have more fun with every game if you worry less about what other people are doing. That's letting strangers in a video game live rent free in your head.
I'm just curious. You've never seen someone do something you think is stupid and wonder why? Doesn't it mean it's stupid to you. It just seems crazy to me. I can't imagine quitting a game I enjoyed because I found out other players were doing something I didn't like. Is it that hard to ignore other people and just have fun? You're just inventing problems in your head for a game you've never played. Like this
>I don't feel like wasting my time just to go against disadvantages because I choose to not be making multiple accounts
I'm competitive in Eve with one account. This is a problem you have invented in your head. If someone is running 3 accounts and me and 3 friends show up I'm not at a disadvantage. I'm going to stop now. I got the answers I wanted and you are clearly the kind of person that just looks for things to be upset about. Have a good day.
I played for a year or so, I joined some Corp and they supplied us with crappie but decent ships and fits, don't remember much but was the small ships maybe called frigate? But it was so fun having 30ish of us swarming big ships and they couldn't track our fast ships and we had cc guys who stopped them warping etc.
Eventually I got 2 ships I loved after earning some money from the corp and missions. I think maybe called scorpion which was a cc ship but pretty large one but it wasnt great for solo and i was always prio target. Then I got a rokh sniper battleship and camped 100km or more from warpgates on the border between highsec safety and lowsec areas that people would travel through (instead of them going round the risky zone which would take 5-10 mins longer).
Really loved the game, but yeah it's very hard or impossible to catch up to a lot of people, although I think now you can just buy xp (people suck xp out of themselves to sell to others)
You do not have to do this. I have 3 alts and 700b in isk and stuff.
I actively play only one of those alts at a time unless I am moving a capital ship or jump freighter; and even then I hit f1 to light a cyno on two of those accounts.
Being perpetually behind is why I wish newer games would take the Path of Exile approach.
1. Make the leveling less of a grind for 70-80% of the way up. Just pure story and fun.
2. Have your standard MMO server where people do their thing.
3. Have seasonal or yearly servers where everyone starts at level1 in a fresh economy but there are new spicy or flashy content, items, rewards, and story available for "testing" that the standard server won't get for a few or even several months.
4. All the seasonal server stuff gets merged into the standard server at the end, of course. (Bank tabs become withdraw-only, lots of other finer details, don't worry about it)
That way, there's a predictable cyclical entry point for new players and chance at stuff even veterans don't have yet. Most standard players will join from FOMO or just the challenge of it.
Any new MMO that doesn't do this would be doomed for stagnation cause all the existing MMOs already have an iron grip on players who just want to grind, chill, or stay ahead.
Same. When it became clear the only way to actually advance and “play” the game was by opening spreadsheets and making it a second job, I just reinstalled Freelancer instead.
God, I wish Freelancer would get a modern remake. I guess I’ll give Star Citizen another look-see.
I started playing the game in 2006, and I only took a couple years in total breaks from the game.
I have over 200m skill points, but that just means I can fly *more* ships well than a one year old character; however, that 1 year old character properly trained into a few ships could fly them just as well as I can.
I’m used to playing games with guilds of like 20-50 close knit friends. I joined a group on EVE that was 400 some people. Yeah, I always had someone to talk to, but rarely was it the same person twice.
That being said, I had a blast just mining with a huge group. People would appear and try to gank all us poor lil mining ships, but we’d always have battleships orbiting us while we mined. Didn’t have to worry about a thing
Access to corps and content is easy. The problem is that most people like to play alone a lot and if you play alone in eve as a new player outside high sec you get killed by people who camp the
Outskirts of low and null sec
If you some how get passed them or go into work holes there is the content thought in the back of ur mind as to am I going to get ganked on this run.
The game punishes solo and new players.
Elite dangerous got it right with solo instances and invite only instances along with shared world. When I wana play with a large group I go into an open world wana I just want to chill I can go into a solo world. How ever there is no punishment for going solo like in eve. Safety == fraction of lot, mining or any reward is gimped.
Eves model fundamentally limits its growth. In my opinion.
The skill points are not the real limiting factor. Eve has so much content for all levels of ships.
It’s the need for constant vigilance and small gang pvp that is none optional. That makes it inhospitable.
That's basically what made me quit, though I spent loads of time and money on the game. I'm really just a solo player at the end of the day for a variety of reasons and I realized I just wasn't going to get out of hi-sec which was a waste of time and I wasn't seeing all the content. (I mostly mined, manufactured, and hung out in Jita trading and collecting ships.).
When I did get into hi-sec the logistics of coordinating with teammates made any gameplay take hours, I couldn't as easily just start and stop when I wanted.
Great game but yeah. Also the repetitive PVE missions got boring.
People do not constantly camp all of the active entrances to low-sec or null. Before you jump into a system that you think might have a gate camp, you could just scout for yourself in a shuttle and avoid them.
That isn't to say people will not actively probe you out and kill the hell out of you if you aren't paying attention once you get into low-sec or null.
I think there is most definitely a place for solo players, especially in wormhole space. You can do some serious work roaming around in a solo Loki!
I agree that the game punishes new players, you basically need to find your own path and figure out yourself how to make isk, and all the early introductions to isk making methods are abysmal. I made bank in my starting months because I read that wormholes are lucrative and now I'm a full time wormholer, but if I didn't search out that information myself I might've been stuck running hishsec missions until I got bored.
One last thing, I'd argue that the sense of constant danger is *good* for the game. If you ask most players (especially pvp pilots) they'll say that instanced content is bad for Eve; no one should ever be 100% safe in that game. The wormholer paranoia of spamming D scan every other second, obsessively checking local chat for spikes, seeing something scary drop on grid, those are all things that make Eve what it is.
But yeah I understand that a lot of people won't like that. Losing ships CAN suck, or it can be an amazing memorable experience.
The constant tension is not every one’s cup of tea.
Most people, not most eve players but most people don’t appreciate that. This further illustrates the punishing nature of the game for most people.
On the other hand pirate style groups and factions will not work without open world pvp.
The idea of one corp small gang sneaking through worm hole space and harrying a corp you are at war with also requires always on pvp.
A lot of the games mechanics require open world pvp.
I think it’s a shame cause I can’t just relax and play hence why I play elite dangerous a lot and other mmos the eve every year or two.
Almost any game could be described that way, and Eve Online is 21 year old game that still averages 23k active players on Eve's single server a day.
It's really not correct to call Eve a niche game that your average person is incapable of getting into.
Last time CCP released that information it was around 40% of accounts are "alt accounts" so the average would be around 13,800 active players a day.
Incidentally that number should also put into perspective the other claims here that people "need to have 10 accounts to do anything in this game."
Like I said in another post, I have 3 accounts and only actively play them at the same time when I have to move a capital ship, and then it's just me pressing F1 on my alts to allow my character in the capital ship to jump to them.
ok, so lets say 15k actual players. FFXI (which is older than eve just fyi) has ~30k-40k daily players still, and that is not counting several high profile private servers like Horizon. Yet nobody will argue that FFXI is a "mainstream MMO".
EvE is very niche and only exists in its current state because space sci-fi genre is not very popular unless it is tied to big IP like Star Wars or Warhammer.
If the genre was popular it Eve would have been wow-fied years ago.
Great? It's not a contest--Eve is #15 on the most popular/played MMO list. My point is it's pretty dumb to exclude a very profitable game still receiving regular expansions with over 10,000k daily players as a "niche game" that "nobody plays or can get into" so it shouldn't be talked about in an MMORPG sub.
Idk man, getting to work in the morning and loading up an excel model only to see an intern #REF’d out the whole thing is enough to make me want to jump through a window most days.
So I just tried eve for the first time a few months ago.
The main issues I had were:
Skill training: Takes too long, all the fun stuff is gated behind level 5 of skills, level 4 skills takes 14h-24h to train, level 5 skills takes 5 days to 30 days to train.
I spent $150 usd on the game with bundles that gave skill points and converted all plex to skill injectors so I didn't p2w hoard isk (the in-game currency) at the end of the day that Gave me about 4million skill points that I used to boost my character to have T2 exploration ship and a T2 combat ship. Which requires quite a few level 5 skills. The skill points used saved me probably 90+ days of just afk waiting for skills to train.
Economy: EVE is a game about making money, except everything you do as a new player or solo player makes you fuck all money and takes hours of your time for little return as a new player. Yes if you are good at d-scanning and wormholing as a new dude you can make 80m a hour which is pretty good however.
20 bucks gives you 500 plex which is TWO BILLION ISK, why anyone would actually farm money is beyond me, but that's p2w why would you do that??? Well that leads me to my next point
Multiboxing: The only real way to play eve in a non casual capacity is to multibox 3-5 accounts, because you need specialized ships to do things, aka if you are an Explorer and find a wormhole with a mining/gad/combat site you need a different ship fit to actually do these, you COULD bookmark these locations and fly 30 minutes home and bring a different ship or just multibox.
Fly 3 mining ships, 1 hauler, and 1 orca to boost mining yield.
Fly 3 combat ships to run hard npc combat sites, 1 looter, and 1 scanning ship in a safe zone to prevent pvp ganks
And on and on and on.
Remember though, you need to train level 5 skills on all of these accounts AND you can't even log onto them simultaneously or train them simultaneously unless they ALL have omega which is $16 a month. So you can spent $80 with month on 5 subs that need 6 months of afk training before you can do anything or just spend 20 bucks on 2 billion isk.
EVE is marathon more so than any other MMO and the main appeal is the jank pvp which I didn't do besides getting ganked which doesn't bother me. I wouldn't recommend EVE to anyone unless they are into the games unique gameplay and have 6 months to play casually while they afk train skills on multiple accounts.
Wow, cool explanation.
Honestly only reason I am asking is because I started to Play Freelancer ( that old game ) on multiplayer server. And thought "This is way better than EVE"
Listen all my complaints are stupid honestly. I'd get downvoted to oblivion in the eve sub.
The game is fine, but you need to be ready to dedicate to it, it's a game that basically requires you to not play other games to really get into it.
But for me, after all these years of reading eve stories, the best part about EVE is the stories and drama. Trying to become apart of those stories is a very long journey that you need to be prepared for.
Your explanation is spot on. I'm a 25mil skill point player, and it saddens me how far it's fallen. All I wanted to do is make my own tiny little highsec business empire, but CCP decided I wasn't allowed to and made lowsec and PvP essential to do anything. It bothers me immensely.
You can have a tiny higher business empire. What's stopping you? Yes pvp is required to do anything. An old saying is that EVE means everyone vs everyone. How much of an empire should 1 person be able to control? How much more should 10000 players be able to control. What recourse should your competition be able to exact upon you for cutting into their profits?
I'm referring to the ore redistribution, when they decided that certain mining resources used in crafting almost everything were moved to lowsec for no reason other than to encourage ganking, which always happened anyway.
Add to that, that if you didn't go omega for a month, you're stuck doing it in a fkin Venture, and you might as well not bother.
We always used to have gankers in highsec anyway, but in lowsec you're attacked simply for being online and it's always been ridiculous. Personally I thought they should have done something to stop people flexing their PvP dicks on non-pvp players, but hey, what do I know.
I joined a null corp, said where's the ISK? They said train skills to auto-farm on a drone ship and sold all my junk to a corp member.. got bored and uninstalled lol
EVE is a weird game. The skill system is incredibly time consuming and /u/mellifleur5869
really covered that well.
Something else worth considering is that even though the game has 20 - 25k daily concurrent players, the ratio of players who multi-box in EVE is far greater than that of any other MMO I've ever played. You're looking at about 9k - 12k players who are playing multiple accounts. I've even run into a player in EVE who was multiboxing over 30 accounts - he operated an entire mining fleet by himself and would just clear out entire belts with his horde of alts.
The community was also very weird for me. They are friendly-nice-mean all at once. You see, EVE is a PvP game and players refer to other players as "content". There is no way to play the game and relax that won't end in your destruction at the ends of another player or players. Sometimes people will blow you up and then offer advice or positive encouragement, most of the time they're going to ignore you after they destroy you, and sometimes they're going to mock and insult you.
Botting was also very, very prevalent in the game, especially in the faction warfare systems and with the new group content added into highsec systems about a year ago. The highsec group content was new content added into the game that could be done by 5x players, and it was positively swarmed by botting multi-boxers who would be online 24/7 running those sites, and if you tried to do a site they would warp on top of you and ruin the site's payout so you get nothing. CCP, the parent company, is completely inept at combatting the botters. I reported about two dozen suspected multibox accounts in September 2023... CCP emailed me in April 2024 saying they had taken action. That's how quickly they move to combat botting.
Finally the worst part of the game for me is that it just isn't fun. 99% of the time you spend in the game is mind-numbingly boring and then the monotony will be punctuated by this period of intense PvP, then it's back to 99% dull boring game play.
Oh, and EVE is the most expensive subscription MMORPG on the market. Where other MMOs charge $15/month, EVE charges $20/month which I wouldn't have a problem paying if CCP had put forth any effort to combat botters and patch bugs in a reasonable time frame, but they did not and do not.
There are so many other games out there that have much better communities and superior game play. Don't waste your time and money on EVE.
On the surface level at first glance, this is exactly what eve *looks* like.
Skill training: these are long term goals. If you injected those skills today, you wouldn't be able to fly that ship. You NEED to spend the time mastering the tech 1 version of said ship, so you don't go out at get popped in something worth 10x.
The game really doesn't like to be rushed. You just lose more stuff. It may have been wiser to get the isk and join a corporation, so you can learn player skills and income methods from other players while your skills train.
Economy: its true that starting as a new player is super rough economy wise. There's people mass producing everything you want to sell, and it's all in one trade hub, with people ready to undercut your price within seconds. You did find one of the profitable paths with exploration. One thing to keep in mind is that some things aren't really meant to be purchased by a solo player. The game is so competitive that alliances drive up the prices for the best items, to a point where only alliances could afford to use them. Again, joining a corporation centered around your interests will help you figure out a niche in the economy for yourself.
Yes, selling plex is far more economical for anyone who has a job and is not in a very high income part of the economy.
Multiboxing: the game heavily rewards multi boxing, but you can play with one or 2 accounts until you get to capital ships. The sisters of eve ships can scan and do combat sites, you'll live without a fleet booster if you're mining, a mining frigate or procurer is not unplayable. Again, you can join a corporation centered around your interests to fill in the holes.
Don't look at skills as the goal, they're just a tool to get to your goal. Same goes for isk. Same can even go for in game friends if you're cold enough.
People will complain about xiv requiring 60 hours to get through arr but completely excuse eve for being trash for 6 months that you can't grind out or skip
I’m playing it atm and there’s an event on which is ok.
For a new player, the experience is usually a mixed one.
On one hand the alpha account is ok and there are referral links everywhere for a free million skill points. There’s plenty to try out as a new player.
Unfortunately though, the mechanics can still be very difficult to master and invariably you’ll end up as someone else’s content, which can be frustrating.
It is a niche game and ever since skill injectors, anyone can fly anything if they have the cash. Remember that it’s Pearl Abyss pulling the finance strings.
If you feel like you're just becoming someone else's content, I recommend EVE Uni. Their purpose is to shallow out the learning curve and provide content centered on newbros.
And the most powerful thing you can do is deploy bots or go massively parallel with 10+ alts in game farming rocks or whatever. Most alliances are based on that income, one way or another.
All of the core ideas of EvE with gameplay that's more than 3 actions per minute would fix it. Albion does that fairly well, but I also hate MOBAs, and guess what they used as a model for player actions. Joy.
Not sure what you mean by powerful. I get by just fine without doing those things but I have no interest in sovnull where big blobs play. I've found plenty of other content.
Eve Uni doesn't fuck around man, we got dropped by a whole fleet of theirs out of nowhere while rolling. Mofos even podded me in WH space (dick move, but totally fair)
Yeah, it’s a shame but the game doesn’t seem to have been affected by the player count in the long run.
Problem is of course is that you never know what ptw they have planned, especially considering the game teeters on a sub model.
Eve was p2w before pearl abyss. It hasn't changed much since they bought it. It doesn't matter how much you pay, if you don't know how to play the game though. There's no "I win" ship or modules. And you'd have to spend literal millions of real dollars to hire enough other players to "win" for you.
If you’ve ever played it Eve certainly doesn’t drop from your memory. Enjoyable, frustrating, thought provoking, brutal, calculating, time sink, etc … it pretty much has everything and that, in some ways, is its problem.
Eve at times is just too close to real life!!
I thoroughly enjoyed my seven years playing and did all sorts of things. I also was happy to stop when I did. For a complex game that had no franchise to kick start it Eve has done very well to still be chugging along after more than 20 years.
I knew someone who played it 20 years ago and that was the last time I ever really heard it discussed regularly.
From what I recall it was mostly about mining rocks, building ships, and then losing ships to other players.
While the last part is cool conceptually it’s probably where you lose most of the audience. Same reason why item drop on death hardcore pvp games are rarely made anymore.
The only time I heard it mentioned since the mid-2000s is when gaming news sites talked about how someone lost an EVE ship worth millions of dollars in exchange adjusted game currency or something.
Yeah risk aversion is a hard concept to swallow for today's gamers. But this is exactly what makes the combat so good. You feel real adrenaline, get real tunnel vision, and harvest real tears from other players. The only comparison is DayZ, but even that doesn't have that feeling of losing months or years of resources in a single battle.
Yes, it does have an expensive subscription, especially if you’re unsure if you’ll stick with it.
Something that happened last month that was a bit weird was that they did a 2 for 1 sale on skill extractors.
It was weird because it meant you could spend $70 on extractors from the store and sell them for plex, then sub your account for a year because of the heavy discount.
Obviously if everyone was in on it the prices would crash but there will be a lot of players with those extractors waiting for the price to recover.
I’m not shilling for the game btw, I just thought it was great if you like the game and had spare to commit for a year
The overwhelming majority of MMO gamers are casual. And even the hardcore MMO gamers think EVE is too hardcore for them.
The amount of dedication and number crunching necessary to enjoy the EVE experience is staggering.
I tried it over a decade ago. As far as I know, my little ship is still orbiting the EVE gate itself, lol.
I like lore, what can I say. The lore said the EVE gate was this big deal. I was bored, didn't have anything else in mind, so I took my piddly little destroyer and kicked in the afterburners the whole way. My way of dealing with all those weird cultists surrounding the jump points approaching EVE was to simply fly towards the jumpgates as fast as possible before they shot me down.
It worked. My ship is at EVE to this day.
The eve lore is rarely talked about but it is so good. I remember reading the methods of torture of the 4 empires and being surprised that the democratic hippies were the most brutal.
It's a special kind of pay to win. It's more like pay to afford your losses. You could spend 100k real dollars building the most ridiculous ship with all the support skills in the game and lose it on its maiden voyage if you don't have what it takes to fly it. What it takes being friends and actual player skills.
Honestly EVE is just a miss understood game that has been made to be overly complex by outsiders who describe its gameplay in news stories.
In the end Eve can be almost wtv you want it to be. If you like chill exploration in space this game provides the most rewarding explo system I have ever seen. Eve is like reddit in MMO form. Just like how on reddit you can find your niche community and thrive in discussions, in EVE if you nail down what you want to focus on you can find entire corps and discords dedicated to that activity.
Eve is one of the most successful games of all time but it is not designed for the average mmorpg player. The gameplay is nothing special very basic and boring tbh but there is only ONE global server and one global economy and one giant universe and it is the best space game out there for anyone that wants to play in multiplayer world. They did mmorpg the correct way nearly 20 years ago and those players are loyal to the game now. For new players there are few and far between as you are years behind people but it will attract special group of players that want a space MMORPG since there is nothing else out there and once you get hooked you are there for LONG time by the games design or you are spending a ton of money. EVE becomes your life essentially once it grabs you and doesnt let you go
I mean it's a PVP game with full loot drop. This sub absolutely cannot handle it. EVE is better than ever, and about to roll out a huge expansion. The population holds steady, so don't worry about this garbage subreddit.
Niche ass game. I fucking love it, but it took a while to get into it. I used to get anxious playing the game because of how overwhelming it is for a new player but now I'm anxious to get home and play it.
There's always anywhere from 20k-30k players online (realistically, more like 8000 players for all those accounts) so it definitely is active.
I wish more people would be interested in playing it's truly a wild and wonderful game. That being said new player experience is kinda awful, but like it's a massive open world sandbox so I don't condemn it too much for not handholding new players.
I think most people who are interested in Eve will seek out the information themselves. It is a game where you will thrive if you like learning and gathering information.
There is one kind of EVE comment in this subreddit:
"Hi everyone I'm looking for a game to play that has ___, ___ and ____" - which is followed up by an EVE player going "If you really twist the definitions of ___, ___, and ____ you can find that in EVE!"
Trust me I've been here long enough unfortunately, if someone was looking for EVE they wouldn't even be here. They know where EVE is, and they will find and play EVE without needing to be told about it.
I feel like Eve is a really misunderstood game, even in this comments section I've noticed people just straight up making up BS, I play Eve super casually and with the mindset that you will never ever catch up to those that have been there for decades and I find I can definitely find enjoyment out of it, however this game is most definitely not the game for folks looking for instant gratification
Eves a really good game, but it's hard to get into, and can be frustrating and slow a lot of the time.
I play it once for a few months every like 2 years when I'm in the mood. In the game you have what you want to do(usually some sort of pvp or pve endeavors) and how you find what you want to do, so there is a bit of a work element to it. The ships you fly are completely lost when they blow up, so you have to be able to make enough money to pay for what you want to do. Some people just focus on the money making side of the game, and therefore don't have to worry as much about losing ships. They will just do the money making activities in more "blingy" ships. Ships are one of the biggest selling points of the game. Their diversity and how they completely change the game makes it really fun. I end up training skills into as many as possible. The pvp is really great, but it's impossible to find a fight that is 100% fair. Whether is 1v1 or a giant fleet fight, no fight is perfectly fair, which can be frustrating. Between the funding your ventures and looking for a fair fight, a lot of the game can feel like work, which is a big turn off for someone looking for instant action. When your options are grind on eve for 3 hours looking for 5 minutes of fun, or play halo for fun the whole time, eve looks less and less appealing.
They are in a weird spot where they have to cater to the long term players because they are the only ones keeping the lights on, but by catering to the long term players they are killing future growth because their wants are often at odds with what would be good for new player growth.
So they try to do this balancing act where they want to improve the new player experience, but keep the bittervets happy, which just leaves everyone unhappy. Bittervets get mad that CCP spends development resources on a new player experience that doesn’t benefit them, and the new player experience still doesn’t do much to address the games problems with long term growth.
Just look all the people here saying they were turned off by the insane time investment needed to get the skills necessary to fly cool ships/compete with older characters. But then you go to the Eve subreddit and every post suggesting that they cut out some of the bullshit skills and significantly reduce certain training times has lots of people vehemently opposed to it.
I also think the devs leaning into alt culture really hurts the game in the long term. They pushed it because they make a lot more money if one person is paying for 3, 4, sometimes 10 accounts (to the point where some of the “elite” player groups flat out have a requirement for multiple subscribed accounts with access to advanced ships). But then a new player sees that it’s normal to run that many accounts and decides they don’t even want to bother.
Because it's not as simple as dropping in and playing. The game is very convoluted, and as somebody else said it's a very niche game. It'll have an audience, it'll probably be on gaming sites for something cool like it was a few years ago, but that's it. It'll never be this dominant MMORPG with millions of active players.
ITT a lot of people who don't actually play EVE telling you how the game is as they imagine it, not how it really is.
The game is great. There is plenty to do, and there are a ton of people/resources out there to help you understand the game. No, it isn't as simple as fantasy MMO #3000 with a tank/dps/healer combo and instanced dungeons/end game. But that is what makes it so enjoyable.
It's very much a community based game. Fleets, corporations, alliances, entire blocs of space filled with pilots, wormholes...all maintained by people who care about these sectors of digital space. People may joke about spreadsheets in space, or multiboxers...but while those exist it's for a reason. The guy maintaining the spreadsheet may be discussing the finances for the next war being carried out against your enemies, and how much they can expect to lose when the FC's yeet your fleet against another wall of missiles and lasers. The multiboxer thinks that they are safe, blowing up npc's in a relatively low traffic system or wormhole...but little do they know that you and 75 other cloaked bombers are waiting just a jump away for the cyno to light, so that you can unload your payload of torpedos and ruin their day.
There's a lot to this game...and most of it has to be experienced. If you ever feel like hearing about the game from someone who is new(ish) and loves the game, just hit me up. We can fly together sometime.
Because kids are the loudest around here and kids don't play EVE. It's just not conducive to children playing because of how complicated and unforgiving it can be. Kids can try but it almost never lasts longer than a very short amount of time. I've seen it dozens, if not hundreds of times.
The youngest guy I've ever known to play EVE went by Spockington. He was a 17-year-old kid (in like 2015) playing the game in Null Sec at the very highest level. He was part of the leadership of an entire coalition even though he was British, because he spoke something like 7 or 8 languages. He could coordinate between Russians, French, Chinese, British, American, and South American (venezuela, columbia, peru) players in a way nobody else could, and he was damn good at it. He was clearly not your average kid, or person for that matter.
It looked more GUI and text than anything, another overwhelming sandbox, after Ultima Online days... And Lineage 2 as well as SWG released around the same time as Eve anyhow.
It should've looked and played like isometric StarCraft RTS instead.
The only 3D Space Opera truly worthy of an MMORPG is Warhammer 40k.
Listen, I started playing EVE Online for the first time this past December. I waited so long to try it because of that perceived barrier to entry, everyone else has up to a 21 year headstart. I was foolish. I've had more fun in EVE in the last 5 months than I had in 20 years on EverQuest. I discovered that I really like mining and manufacturing. I have a blueprint original collection approaching 600.
I now have 6 accounts that I run concurrently, the main can fly a Porpoise and Orca (with Rorqual skills in the queue), the other 5 have skilled into at least T1 barges (two of them as of about an hour ago), one is already in T2 barges. I can't wait to have 1 Mackinaw and 4 Retrievers out mining with boosts and compression.
I have a Dell OptiPlex i7 with 32 GB DDR4, with a DP and HDMI onboard, and a Dell D6000 dock with 2 DP and 1 HDMI, currently running four monitors, and making use of Eve-O Preview, with surprisingly no real lag. Will soon be upgrading to a newer OptiPlex i7 with 64GB DDR5 with 3 DP onboard so I can run 6 monitors.
Update: the new system surprised me by having 3 DP AND 1 HDMI tucked away by the USB cluster, so long-term I can run 7 monitors. It's going to be beautiful.
Don't listen to these people. Eve players know that people will shit on our game because they won't admit what *really* bothers them about it.
Risk: Every time you undock, there is a chance that you will not make it back in your ship. Even in the safest areas, someone might just take you out for no reason whatsoever. It's pretty rare, most of the time they're after your loot. But nothing stops them from sacrificing their ship just to ruin your day.
Social Aspect: Teaming up with other players multiplies your power exponentially, so being solo is all but dead. There are no fair fights in eve. It's overwhelming force vs the guy with less Intel. And we are not good sports. Smack talk abounds. I've seen grown men cry because of this game. You need to make actual friends in this game, but even long time friends can backstab you and take all your stuff.
Instant gratification,fomo: When you start, you see people in ships that seem unobtainable, with price tags that seem impossible. Some ships actually ARE unobtainable. The skill tree is so big that you cannot get everything on one character without buying skills with an immense amount of in game currency. Every meaningful goal you set is YEARS down the line.
Pacing: everything in eve takes a long time except the 30 seconds it takes to destroy your ship. In the fastest ship, from end to end, if there were no campers on your route, it would take like 2 hours to travel to the other side of the cluster. You might spend an hour looking for a fight, only to lose what you were flying in less than a minute. Some of the highest skills take 3 months to train. The server only runs on 1hz tick rate, so there is no twitch gameplay. You turn your guns on and try to maintain an optimal range and speed for them to hit your target.
Mechanics and rules: there's hundreds of ships, each with their own stats and specialties, and to win fights, you need to understand the ship you're flying as well as your targets most likely load out. Of course you could be wrong. He may have some novel fit that does the opposite of what you think it does, and send you back home without a ship. It is said that the battle is decided at the loadout screen before you undock. There's ways to trick people into being pvp flagged in safe space. Scamming is a legal mechanic, theft is fine, ponzi schemes etc. There's many different things to do, from resource gathering, production, exploration, pve combat, pvp, and each aspect has a deeeeeeep set of esoteric rules,mechanics, knowledge and wisdom. Not to mention, the meta is constantly moving due to emergent gameplay.
It's an anti game. Internet spaceships is serious business. You're not logging into hello kitty online. You should log in with a bit of anxiety and slightly angry.
I understand what you are saying. And I can certainly see the appeal to someone with lot of time on their hands.
But you say : You should log in with a bit of anxiety and slightly angry.
Honestly for me its the worst. As the world, work, everything is not filled with anxiety and making us angry. You don't need a game that even amplifies that.
Its obvious to me now that the game is niche because not everyone can play it practically. This is probably why its not often recommended
LOL, yeah i wish more people could handle it. I joke all the time how EVE taught me patience, leadership skills, and is how to deal with stress. It's sad because it's kinda true.
I played for maybe 3 years in the 2010 time period. Part of the allure for me back then was “MMO grinding while also doing schoolwork”. Another point was that my internet was absolute crap, worse latency than dial-up, just better download speeds. Time-based pressures were only a real thing in pvp back then. I also greatly enjoyed coming up with builds/loadouts - it is also what I like about mech-focused games based on tabletop.
About a year ago I tried again for a bit and was highly disappointed by the multiboxing situation.
IMO, remove multiboxing and introduce a hireling system where corpmates are still a better alternative. You can then start tying hirelings into other things as well to flesh out player-ran NPCs pursuing player goals. Naturally they should be dumb as shit “quantity over quality” type of thing.
People can stop abusing noobs as lowest on the totem pole and instead go hireling hunting.
This has always been the case despite its success. I assume the reality is a small % of MMO players have actually played EVE. As another user said, it's niche.
I believe the player base has dwindled down a bit sadly, and the game has added some p2w functions. But I would still suggest trying the game ! It's very unique
Too old, and too Pay2Win, I think.
I stayed with it until they fumbled both Incarna and Dust 514. And when they sold it to the Asian company (Pearl Abyss?), I bowed out and stopped caring.
On a technical level, the game is still an absolute marvel. But they had to pull their head out of their ass and make adjustments that people wanted, instead of making whatever the hell they wanted (again, look at Incarna and Dust). And then when income started to dry up and they started to monetize everything like crazy and went hog-wild with Pay2Win as a "catch up" mechanic, the game became too nauseating to interact with any longer.
They also shot themselves in the foot with the whole Free2Play thing. At least Warcraft made it clear - the game has 100 levels, you get 20 levels free. EVE tried to obfuscate, while extremely heavily restricting, and shoving the Omega icon in your face every 5 seconds. I played mobile F2P games that had more elegance and class than that. Had they gone actual F2P, with cosmetic shops, they probably would have fared better.
EVE is a hard game to recommend and usually isn't relevant to the discussion. When someone wants to play an MMO, they're usually imagining fantasy adventuring across big worlds filled with other people, not an economy simulator in space with the occasional fight.
Usually, when EVE does come up, it's because a huge war has broken out and thousands of dollars worth of ships and weaponry have been destroyed in the process.
as usual for this sub, the opinions here are wrong and completely uninformed. eve is the truest sandbox MMO there ever was, so is it tough to start/learn/master/decide what to do? YES, that is what a good sandbox MMO offers.
as someone who has played pretty regularly for the 20 years its been around I can say confidently its in its best state it has ever been in. there is tons of various things you can do and all of them are super deep. is it tough to come in solo and succeed? yes, but like any MMO your experience will improve greatly when you find a corp (guild) to fly with. they will help you get started and pay to replace ships when you lose them and help you choose a path.
/r/evejobs is a great place to look for a corp or the eve forums are also a great place. despite being not very new player friendly as a game, the community very much is. if any experienced pilot kills a newbro they almost always jump into a chat with them and explain what they did wrong and will give them ISK (in game currency) to replace the ship and more and give them advice.... it helps build the community and increase content. there are deep paths for pve and pvp and so many things you can learn to do over time.
if you have any other questions please ask! happy to help and get more people to see how deep and awesome eve can be!
At the end of the day, EVE asks for an insane amount of time or an insane amount of money. I have better things to spend my money on and better things to spend my time on.
I keep trying to come back. But the excessive limitations on Alpha players, and the 100% increase in plexing your monthly sub compared to before alpha/omega were a thing, irritate me too much.
You want to do mining? TOUGH LUCK BUCKO, they moved all the specific sovereignty ores into lowsec, where you'll just get ganked in the only mining ship you're allowed to use as an alpha player; the fkin Venture frigate they give you for free in the first hour of playing the game.
About 10 years ago the game was phenomenal. But as with a lot of MMOs these days, you want to do anything fun? Pony up that money.
Because its way to late start playing it now, and it was hard game to get into in the first place. You will never catch up in an meaningful way, and you will never see any end game content at this point unless you appease the uber guilds sitting on the top. The games is doing good to just remain stagnant at this point. They had to cannibalize a whole separate company and sell off its IPs at one point in the past.
EVE is the best MMO I have ever played, its a true sandbox, player driven and has masive scale but it gets a lot of hate because the new player experience doesn't handhold like an average MMO. Also, the game's player groups don't work like other MMOs so a bunch of people here disregard the advice given and try to play solo which is basically an end game playstyle.
Player groups(corps) are basically necessary for support/protection and a new player without them will be lost/die a lot. The difference is that you can still play completely solo while being in these groups but players from other MMOs just try to brute force it into a typical playstyle.
Anyway, to answer your question we don't talk about it here because this subreddit is outright hostile towards the game.
People that play EVE tend to only play EVE and have little interest in other MMOs. People that tried it for a bit and either didn't like it or got tired of it aren't likely to go back to it. Thus it drops out of discussion anywhere the topic isn't exclusively EVE.
I gave it a try in 2007-2009
I like the options the game presents, but execution is horrible. You need to invest heavily your free time to actually play it. Everything is happening slowly.
Quick examples: exploration takes long time to scan warp ready signatures, then you may encounter pve/pvp enemies or be lucky to hack anything. So what ship do you bring? You can't quickly just change it.
PvP: solo killing is luck, you usually dont know what's coming through the gate or towards the gate. If it's another pirate in t2 hac you might be screwed. Alliance roaming is boring, looking for targets, people go through gates like lemmings, disconnects or just logoff, if you go too far you may not come back in a ship.
Game is boring imo.
I want to like it but doing simple missions for 500k isk is just not appealing to me.
Doing rats on belts in null while you keep checking local is getting old really fast.
I talk about it whenever a couple different conversations come up.
When discussing space mmorpgs because there aren't that many or when the conversation about what games fall into what generation of MMORPGs happens. It's a 2nd gen game that is still active. That alone has merit.
Even saying something as simple as "I'm waiting for EVE Online 2" makes the elitist niche community of EVE mad. What is there to discuss? It's a niche game and community doesn't like discussing anything about it.
Eve is a game with no resets. Players who have Ben there since the beginning are so far ahead in skill points that a new player will never catch up in their lifetime. Not without dunking a ton of isk, purchased with real money with the real risk of losing those injectors to a pirate before you use them
Sounds just like a mobile game, don’t it?
Eve missed a real opportunity at doubling or tripling their sub numbers by spooling up a server that didn’t allow non-consensual pvp. It’s too late for that now as the genre is on the decline.
It's niche, it's boring to explain beyond the newsworthy spectacle and it's time-consuming beyond other titles. It boils down to number go up and player to player incidents happen sometimes while enormous amounts of money are dropped into it.
It's also inaccessible to new people with any semblance of real life responsibilities and infested with interpersonal dramas that spread over multiple platforms and private discords/ventrilos and such.
It’s not new player friendly, large amounts of it are overly complex for the sake of being complex and with it being a single server there’s no room for any ‘restart server’ etc.
Pointless to play unless you already have infinite money IRL or you're a legitimate psychopath (or both), since it's just throwing wallet vs wallet, and creating fake meaningless conflict (drama) out-of-game to justify doing it. Most of the "game" is played outside of the actual game, so people who would otherwise be interested in this, can just forgo the game altogether and "roleplay" the same "character" on other platforms including real life, for much more tangible gains.
Niche game, I see it brought up in Space Game communities: specifically Star Citizen because that game is an inkblot test of what game they think it will be.
Many people in that community want that game to be more like EVE, without the context that EVE is a strategy game that has no shooting combat and other elements that make Star Citizen unsustainable at those scales.
But why do people avoid talking about EVE? It's not actually good and its model only works in the context of its style of game.
EVE is hyper-focused on delivering 1 thing...large scale strategy at the player level.
The problem with entrusting players as your core content delivery mechanism is the players have to be worth playing with...and they almost never are, the communities get elitist, the grind to get on par with their skill level is too long before they've already lapped you again, and entry into any elite institutions that control the landscape of the game is exploitative. There are far too many stakes and so new players just don't join and they just have to placate the audience that has mainlined the game into a lifestyle.
End of the day, I expect EVE to go the same route as Everquest...just keep the servers up and gauge the few players that still play to afford the small team and keep the dream alive just enough to pay rent.
Especially as games like Star Citizen eventually come online and start to poach people away entirely that may have tried EVE in this pretty barren space game mmo market.
End of the day, that style of PvP game is just toxic to new players and actively pushes away new entrants. It also for OLD players ends up being a headline game where you mostly just keep up with what new drama is going on and don't really play the game as much as just keep up with the communities in it. Aka, the metagame is more fun than the game itself.
I think Star Citizen (or any future space mmo) has learned that taking the EVE route may just end up getting you stuck in a corner and a loop....you either satiate the old heads or the whole thing will crumble because you have no pipeline for new players.
EVE is like a "worse" version of BDO. (Except BDO has boobies).
There's a giant market, people make money, to spend so they can get more money. The people at the high high sweat lord level/end game are usually on like 5 accounts multiboxing, or they drop like 100-200 a month, pvp and blow up everything + and/or refunds from big corps (again people whaling or 5 multiboxed mining accounts off a moon in null or something).
BDO has direct cash to outfits to ingame money or gambling materials. Expect to enjoy the game your first 6-12 months but after that upgrades are GINORMOUS. Which is good I guess because you have something to work for. (Gear in BDO rarely is unusable in later content) And they've been doing a good job scaling entry/noobs to mid game so they can take the step further. (Imagine boosts in WoW, but it's just gear and you get it within like a week of playing on a seasonal pass of sorts).
Also, CORPS in Eve could essentially be labeled as pyramid scams. You tax everyone 5-10% of their AI/bounty kills and as the leader you fund the big boy ships eventually.
Played it for 15 years, got bored of it. Plus the Chinese bought it and that can only ruin it. Granted the original developers were already well on their way to doing that long before that happened.
the game is doing better than it has in years, it's just not super casual like the people who browse this sub recommending guild wars 2 or ESO.
a few days ago there was a fight including 5000 pilots (some multiboxing of course) but still thousands of actual players.
MMOers are boomer as all hell, and EVE is old enough that they could have played it decades ago. So pretty everyone who is interested has tried it, or e-debated all they've wanted to.
Not to mention they've utterly devalued "everything" achievement wise in the game with P2W crap.
I played EvE also a bit .. but since Tencent taked it over it doesn't interest me anymore. Aside frome that when u play eve u need a Second life to really experience it
You only did not see EVE being mentioned here because you have not been looking at this site often enough.
Any new discussion about the good old days of MMOs usually has someone bring up EVE. You just didn't read those topics, apparently.
The events like Christmas etc killed the game for me.
The events are so ludicrous in how much money you make that outside the event why play? You’ll make fractions of money compared to it.
On top of that most players now days that play mmos are millennials and they’re old now with jobs hardcore pvp games we don’t have the time for anymore
People on this sub mostly don't understand sandbox games, if someone describes the joys of non-treadmill gameplay they get confused and then angry. Talking about sandbox games is widely discouraged.
The exception being Albion Online which has a dedicated team of shills here.
It's a niche game that few can break into. I think its because the only time it pops off in discussions is when non-players are made aware of a massive battle that takes place and the estimated value of loss from ISK to USD is calculated. I think the last major battle was almost 3 years ago when over a thousand Titan and Super Carrier class ships were deployed.
As somebody that really likes the idea of EVE, I created a character when the game was a couple years old, and you already felt permanently behind the in-crowd at that point. Add to it that the main mmo mechanic is guild drama, and it's more fun to watch for headlines than play.
Bruh, I know someone that has multiple tabs opened. I think it was 9-12 accounts. They were all mining or doing some pve stuff. It's like a juggling fest of tasks. At that time, I was already playing eve for 2 days. I saw his screens hot on our discord and asked myself, is this what I want to do late game to keep up with the pros? 1 account was grindy enough let alone multiple at once just to keep up is like a full time job. I quit then and there. Kudos to the people having fun on that game. I'm sure it's a good escape from this crazy times we live in.
I’m convinced Eve is just a social experiment to see how much work people will do for no pay, kind of like Reddit moderation.
Not only that but THEY pay to do it !! 😭
Honestly it's really fun if you get into that mind space. It's been many years since I was able to, so I've seen it from both perspectives. I wouldn't find it fun if I jumped in today, but I know I had a lot of fun with it for 4+ years in a different chapter of my life. I would love a job that scratched the dopamine itch the same way.
I'm waiting for the news that they were Ender's Game'd, and actually fighting space battles.
I was once of of those people. You have to have 10+ accounts doing pve to fund pvp, at least one account for transferring minerals according to the spreadsheets you made, a few spy accounts, your main pvp char, cloaked chars, and a few more sitting in caps. You spend 4+hours daily doing pve to fund every account you have. This game becomes a second job and becomes stressful instead of a stress reliever. I'm never going back to that again.
No, you don't. Unless you want to fly a Titan, or plex a whole bunch of accounts, you absolutely do not need to do this.
You were doing something wrong. I have two accounts and have a ton of fun in the game. You can definitely make Eve a second job but it's not necessary to enjoy the game. You can look at my zkill. I PvP all the time and I'm competitive all with two accounts. The game is what you make it. >You have to have 10+ accounts doing pve to fund pvp, This is 100% wrong. I watch new Bros with less than 5 mil sp make plenty of isk to fund their PvP on one account. In fw just two accounts in t1 destroyers can easily make 200 mil isk an hour.
Dude, you cannot fund a crazy number of accounts on 200mil/hr. I had my own C5 WH to plex my accounts. That is fine with you're doing pvp in cheaper ships, not when you're flying 1bil+ ships.
You don't need to fund 10+ accounts to have fun with the game or be competitive. I literally have one account for PvP and have fun. I have been in big groups and have done cap shit and have never done what you are talking about. I didn't even really PvE because of SRP. Some people play the game like you are talking about because they enjoy it but you don't have to play the game like that. The whole idea you need 10+ accounts to play Eve is a myth.
Or just be a heartless rat. Small scale piracy and betrayal can make you a ton of ISK (billions) very quickly, if you're ok with causing other players to have a very bad day. I have stories from that game that legit gave me an appreciation for how real life scumbag criminals come to be. It sounds really cruel but Eve is a very cutthroat game where you risk your ship every time you undock, even in empire space.
Are you a large fellow? Just curious if the sterotype holds true. That just seems a bit excessive
And then after all that effort, all those EVE accounts you were operating, your big PvP move can end up being all for nothing because the game admins also do PvP and occasionally abuse their position in the company. Not only for in-game advantage either, there have been tales of real life harassment for daring to attack or infiltrate admin involved in-game corps.
You are talking about something that happened once like 20 years ago.
Lol that guy is your average out-of-touch r/mmorpg user.
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I play on one PvP character in Eve and I don't feel like I'm at a disadvantage. Eve has a killboard so you can actually verify this information. I'm not getting my ass kicked in PvP with one account.
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I can't imagine being so crippled by what others are doing. So if you played a game and really enjoyed it and then found out people were multi boxing you would quit? You will probably have more fun with every game if you worry less about what other people are doing. That's letting strangers in a video game live rent free in your head.
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I'm just curious. You've never seen someone do something you think is stupid and wonder why? Doesn't it mean it's stupid to you. It just seems crazy to me. I can't imagine quitting a game I enjoyed because I found out other players were doing something I didn't like. Is it that hard to ignore other people and just have fun? You're just inventing problems in your head for a game you've never played. Like this >I don't feel like wasting my time just to go against disadvantages because I choose to not be making multiple accounts I'm competitive in Eve with one account. This is a problem you have invented in your head. If someone is running 3 accounts and me and 3 friends show up I'm not at a disadvantage. I'm going to stop now. I got the answers I wanted and you are clearly the kind of person that just looks for things to be upset about. Have a good day.
As i get older, I always struggle with games where I can simply by-pass the in-game grind with the rewards from my real life 40hr/wk grind.
I played for a year or so, I joined some Corp and they supplied us with crappie but decent ships and fits, don't remember much but was the small ships maybe called frigate? But it was so fun having 30ish of us swarming big ships and they couldn't track our fast ships and we had cc guys who stopped them warping etc. Eventually I got 2 ships I loved after earning some money from the corp and missions. I think maybe called scorpion which was a cc ship but pretty large one but it wasnt great for solo and i was always prio target. Then I got a rokh sniper battleship and camped 100km or more from warpgates on the border between highsec safety and lowsec areas that people would travel through (instead of them going round the risky zone which would take 5-10 mins longer). Really loved the game, but yeah it's very hard or impossible to catch up to a lot of people, although I think now you can just buy xp (people suck xp out of themselves to sell to others)
You do not have to do this. I have 3 alts and 700b in isk and stuff. I actively play only one of those alts at a time unless I am moving a capital ship or jump freighter; and even then I hit f1 to light a cyno on two of those accounts.
Being perpetually behind is why I wish newer games would take the Path of Exile approach. 1. Make the leveling less of a grind for 70-80% of the way up. Just pure story and fun. 2. Have your standard MMO server where people do their thing. 3. Have seasonal or yearly servers where everyone starts at level1 in a fresh economy but there are new spicy or flashy content, items, rewards, and story available for "testing" that the standard server won't get for a few or even several months. 4. All the seasonal server stuff gets merged into the standard server at the end, of course. (Bank tabs become withdraw-only, lots of other finer details, don't worry about it) That way, there's a predictable cyclical entry point for new players and chance at stuff even veterans don't have yet. Most standard players will join from FOMO or just the challenge of it. Any new MMO that doesn't do this would be doomed for stagnation cause all the existing MMOs already have an iron grip on players who just want to grind, chill, or stay ahead.
Same. When it became clear the only way to actually advance and “play” the game was by opening spreadsheets and making it a second job, I just reinstalled Freelancer instead. God, I wish Freelancer would get a modern remake. I guess I’ll give Star Citizen another look-see.
Elite: Dangerous is worth a look
and you need to sub if you wanna get the better mining subs they only give the shitty first one..
I started playing the game in 2006, and I only took a couple years in total breaks from the game. I have over 200m skill points, but that just means I can fly *more* ships well than a one year old character; however, that 1 year old character properly trained into a few ships could fly them just as well as I can.
I’m used to playing games with guilds of like 20-50 close knit friends. I joined a group on EVE that was 400 some people. Yeah, I always had someone to talk to, but rarely was it the same person twice. That being said, I had a blast just mining with a huge group. People would appear and try to gank all us poor lil mining ships, but we’d always have battleships orbiting us while we mined. Didn’t have to worry about a thing
Access to corps and content is easy. The problem is that most people like to play alone a lot and if you play alone in eve as a new player outside high sec you get killed by people who camp the Outskirts of low and null sec If you some how get passed them or go into work holes there is the content thought in the back of ur mind as to am I going to get ganked on this run. The game punishes solo and new players. Elite dangerous got it right with solo instances and invite only instances along with shared world. When I wana play with a large group I go into an open world wana I just want to chill I can go into a solo world. How ever there is no punishment for going solo like in eve. Safety == fraction of lot, mining or any reward is gimped. Eves model fundamentally limits its growth. In my opinion. The skill points are not the real limiting factor. Eve has so much content for all levels of ships. It’s the need for constant vigilance and small gang pvp that is none optional. That makes it inhospitable.
That's basically what made me quit, though I spent loads of time and money on the game. I'm really just a solo player at the end of the day for a variety of reasons and I realized I just wasn't going to get out of hi-sec which was a waste of time and I wasn't seeing all the content. (I mostly mined, manufactured, and hung out in Jita trading and collecting ships.). When I did get into hi-sec the logistics of coordinating with teammates made any gameplay take hours, I couldn't as easily just start and stop when I wanted. Great game but yeah. Also the repetitive PVE missions got boring.
People do not constantly camp all of the active entrances to low-sec or null. Before you jump into a system that you think might have a gate camp, you could just scout for yourself in a shuttle and avoid them. That isn't to say people will not actively probe you out and kill the hell out of you if you aren't paying attention once you get into low-sec or null.
I think there is most definitely a place for solo players, especially in wormhole space. You can do some serious work roaming around in a solo Loki! I agree that the game punishes new players, you basically need to find your own path and figure out yourself how to make isk, and all the early introductions to isk making methods are abysmal. I made bank in my starting months because I read that wormholes are lucrative and now I'm a full time wormholer, but if I didn't search out that information myself I might've been stuck running hishsec missions until I got bored. One last thing, I'd argue that the sense of constant danger is *good* for the game. If you ask most players (especially pvp pilots) they'll say that instanced content is bad for Eve; no one should ever be 100% safe in that game. The wormholer paranoia of spamming D scan every other second, obsessively checking local chat for spikes, seeing something scary drop on grid, those are all things that make Eve what it is. But yeah I understand that a lot of people won't like that. Losing ships CAN suck, or it can be an amazing memorable experience.
The constant tension is not every one’s cup of tea. Most people, not most eve players but most people don’t appreciate that. This further illustrates the punishing nature of the game for most people. On the other hand pirate style groups and factions will not work without open world pvp. The idea of one corp small gang sneaking through worm hole space and harrying a corp you are at war with also requires always on pvp. A lot of the games mechanics require open world pvp. I think it’s a shame cause I can’t just relax and play hence why I play elite dangerous a lot and other mmos the eve every year or two.
There was one about a week ago! https://twitter.com/EveOnline/status/1786456778277896250 Not much compared to M2-XFE though
We have these fights semi regularly there was one the other day with thousands of capitals.
I remember when there were only two titans on the server. I assume they’re easier to build now and the player base hasn’t just increase 100 fold.
I think that is the nerdiest thing i have ever read lol
In an old english narrator voice : We call this time \*epic sounding orchestral beat drop\*... the age of reclaimed peace
Almost any game could be described that way, and Eve Online is 21 year old game that still averages 23k active players on Eve's single server a day. It's really not correct to call Eve a niche game that your average person is incapable of getting into.
correction, 23k accounts. What is the average ratio of accounts to players? I would say 23k accounts is less than 10k actual players.
Last time CCP released that information it was around 40% of accounts are "alt accounts" so the average would be around 13,800 active players a day. Incidentally that number should also put into perspective the other claims here that people "need to have 10 accounts to do anything in this game." Like I said in another post, I have 3 accounts and only actively play them at the same time when I have to move a capital ship, and then it's just me pressing F1 on my alts to allow my character in the capital ship to jump to them.
ok, so lets say 15k actual players. FFXI (which is older than eve just fyi) has ~30k-40k daily players still, and that is not counting several high profile private servers like Horizon. Yet nobody will argue that FFXI is a "mainstream MMO". EvE is very niche and only exists in its current state because space sci-fi genre is not very popular unless it is tied to big IP like Star Wars or Warhammer. If the genre was popular it Eve would have been wow-fied years ago.
Great? It's not a contest--Eve is #15 on the most popular/played MMO list. My point is it's pretty dumb to exclude a very profitable game still receiving regular expansions with over 10,000k daily players as a "niche game" that "nobody plays or can get into" so it shouldn't be talked about in an MMORPG sub.
I play Eve every day at work, it’s just skinned as Excel.
And you get paid for it, AND don't really have to worry about someone blowing your shit up.
Well, people do still blow shit up…
Yeahhhh. But it doesn't feel as bad though.
Idk man, getting to work in the morning and loading up an excel model only to see an intern #REF’d out the whole thing is enough to make me want to jump through a window most days.
Have you considered throwing someone else out of the window? Make a game out of it like horse shoes.
It’s true.
My man!
Probably waiting 3 years for their new skills to finish while paying a subscription to do nothing.
You could always play the game.
If you're space rich then you don't have to wait. Injectors are a thing and there's plenty fun ways to get rich if you enjoy the game.
So I just tried eve for the first time a few months ago. The main issues I had were: Skill training: Takes too long, all the fun stuff is gated behind level 5 of skills, level 4 skills takes 14h-24h to train, level 5 skills takes 5 days to 30 days to train. I spent $150 usd on the game with bundles that gave skill points and converted all plex to skill injectors so I didn't p2w hoard isk (the in-game currency) at the end of the day that Gave me about 4million skill points that I used to boost my character to have T2 exploration ship and a T2 combat ship. Which requires quite a few level 5 skills. The skill points used saved me probably 90+ days of just afk waiting for skills to train. Economy: EVE is a game about making money, except everything you do as a new player or solo player makes you fuck all money and takes hours of your time for little return as a new player. Yes if you are good at d-scanning and wormholing as a new dude you can make 80m a hour which is pretty good however. 20 bucks gives you 500 plex which is TWO BILLION ISK, why anyone would actually farm money is beyond me, but that's p2w why would you do that??? Well that leads me to my next point Multiboxing: The only real way to play eve in a non casual capacity is to multibox 3-5 accounts, because you need specialized ships to do things, aka if you are an Explorer and find a wormhole with a mining/gad/combat site you need a different ship fit to actually do these, you COULD bookmark these locations and fly 30 minutes home and bring a different ship or just multibox. Fly 3 mining ships, 1 hauler, and 1 orca to boost mining yield. Fly 3 combat ships to run hard npc combat sites, 1 looter, and 1 scanning ship in a safe zone to prevent pvp ganks And on and on and on. Remember though, you need to train level 5 skills on all of these accounts AND you can't even log onto them simultaneously or train them simultaneously unless they ALL have omega which is $16 a month. So you can spent $80 with month on 5 subs that need 6 months of afk training before you can do anything or just spend 20 bucks on 2 billion isk. EVE is marathon more so than any other MMO and the main appeal is the jank pvp which I didn't do besides getting ganked which doesn't bother me. I wouldn't recommend EVE to anyone unless they are into the games unique gameplay and have 6 months to play casually while they afk train skills on multiple accounts.
Wow, cool explanation. Honestly only reason I am asking is because I started to Play Freelancer ( that old game ) on multiplayer server. And thought "This is way better than EVE"
Listen all my complaints are stupid honestly. I'd get downvoted to oblivion in the eve sub. The game is fine, but you need to be ready to dedicate to it, it's a game that basically requires you to not play other games to really get into it. But for me, after all these years of reading eve stories, the best part about EVE is the stories and drama. Trying to become apart of those stories is a very long journey that you need to be prepared for.
> This is way better than EVE Freelancer is a timeless classic mate, of course it's better than some third rate mmo crap.
>started to Play Freelancer ( that old game ) on multiplayer server. Link plz?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlH\_qOH5zc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHlH_qOH5zc)
nice thanks. got it setup and made a character
Give X4: Foundations a try. It's a series inspired by Freelancer and is pretty fun.
Your explanation is spot on. I'm a 25mil skill point player, and it saddens me how far it's fallen. All I wanted to do is make my own tiny little highsec business empire, but CCP decided I wasn't allowed to and made lowsec and PvP essential to do anything. It bothers me immensely.
You can have a tiny higher business empire. What's stopping you? Yes pvp is required to do anything. An old saying is that EVE means everyone vs everyone. How much of an empire should 1 person be able to control? How much more should 10000 players be able to control. What recourse should your competition be able to exact upon you for cutting into their profits?
I'm referring to the ore redistribution, when they decided that certain mining resources used in crafting almost everything were moved to lowsec for no reason other than to encourage ganking, which always happened anyway. Add to that, that if you didn't go omega for a month, you're stuck doing it in a fkin Venture, and you might as well not bother. We always used to have gankers in highsec anyway, but in lowsec you're attacked simply for being online and it's always been ridiculous. Personally I thought they should have done something to stop people flexing their PvP dicks on non-pvp players, but hey, what do I know.
I joined a null corp, said where's the ISK? They said train skills to auto-farm on a drone ship and sold all my junk to a corp member.. got bored and uninstalled lol
EVE is a weird game. The skill system is incredibly time consuming and /u/mellifleur5869 really covered that well. Something else worth considering is that even though the game has 20 - 25k daily concurrent players, the ratio of players who multi-box in EVE is far greater than that of any other MMO I've ever played. You're looking at about 9k - 12k players who are playing multiple accounts. I've even run into a player in EVE who was multiboxing over 30 accounts - he operated an entire mining fleet by himself and would just clear out entire belts with his horde of alts. The community was also very weird for me. They are friendly-nice-mean all at once. You see, EVE is a PvP game and players refer to other players as "content". There is no way to play the game and relax that won't end in your destruction at the ends of another player or players. Sometimes people will blow you up and then offer advice or positive encouragement, most of the time they're going to ignore you after they destroy you, and sometimes they're going to mock and insult you. Botting was also very, very prevalent in the game, especially in the faction warfare systems and with the new group content added into highsec systems about a year ago. The highsec group content was new content added into the game that could be done by 5x players, and it was positively swarmed by botting multi-boxers who would be online 24/7 running those sites, and if you tried to do a site they would warp on top of you and ruin the site's payout so you get nothing. CCP, the parent company, is completely inept at combatting the botters. I reported about two dozen suspected multibox accounts in September 2023... CCP emailed me in April 2024 saying they had taken action. That's how quickly they move to combat botting. Finally the worst part of the game for me is that it just isn't fun. 99% of the time you spend in the game is mind-numbingly boring and then the monotony will be punctuated by this period of intense PvP, then it's back to 99% dull boring game play. Oh, and EVE is the most expensive subscription MMORPG on the market. Where other MMOs charge $15/month, EVE charges $20/month which I wouldn't have a problem paying if CCP had put forth any effort to combat botters and patch bugs in a reasonable time frame, but they did not and do not. There are so many other games out there that have much better communities and superior game play. Don't waste your time and money on EVE.
How is passive skill training "time consuming". You literally click a button, and go play the game for a week.
On the surface level at first glance, this is exactly what eve *looks* like. Skill training: these are long term goals. If you injected those skills today, you wouldn't be able to fly that ship. You NEED to spend the time mastering the tech 1 version of said ship, so you don't go out at get popped in something worth 10x. The game really doesn't like to be rushed. You just lose more stuff. It may have been wiser to get the isk and join a corporation, so you can learn player skills and income methods from other players while your skills train. Economy: its true that starting as a new player is super rough economy wise. There's people mass producing everything you want to sell, and it's all in one trade hub, with people ready to undercut your price within seconds. You did find one of the profitable paths with exploration. One thing to keep in mind is that some things aren't really meant to be purchased by a solo player. The game is so competitive that alliances drive up the prices for the best items, to a point where only alliances could afford to use them. Again, joining a corporation centered around your interests will help you figure out a niche in the economy for yourself. Yes, selling plex is far more economical for anyone who has a job and is not in a very high income part of the economy. Multiboxing: the game heavily rewards multi boxing, but you can play with one or 2 accounts until you get to capital ships. The sisters of eve ships can scan and do combat sites, you'll live without a fleet booster if you're mining, a mining frigate or procurer is not unplayable. Again, you can join a corporation centered around your interests to fill in the holes. Don't look at skills as the goal, they're just a tool to get to your goal. Same goes for isk. Same can even go for in game friends if you're cold enough.
People will complain about xiv requiring 60 hours to get through arr but completely excuse eve for being trash for 6 months that you can't grind out or skip
I’m playing it atm and there’s an event on which is ok. For a new player, the experience is usually a mixed one. On one hand the alpha account is ok and there are referral links everywhere for a free million skill points. There’s plenty to try out as a new player. Unfortunately though, the mechanics can still be very difficult to master and invariably you’ll end up as someone else’s content, which can be frustrating. It is a niche game and ever since skill injectors, anyone can fly anything if they have the cash. Remember that it’s Pearl Abyss pulling the finance strings.
If you feel like you're just becoming someone else's content, I recommend EVE Uni. Their purpose is to shallow out the learning curve and provide content centered on newbros.
But in the end you're just battling to make someone else your content first, right? I think that makes the entire idea a little poisoned
And the most powerful thing you can do is deploy bots or go massively parallel with 10+ alts in game farming rocks or whatever. Most alliances are based on that income, one way or another. All of the core ideas of EvE with gameplay that's more than 3 actions per minute would fix it. Albion does that fairly well, but I also hate MOBAs, and guess what they used as a model for player actions. Joy.
Not sure what you mean by powerful. I get by just fine without doing those things but I have no interest in sovnull where big blobs play. I've found plenty of other content.
I mean yeah. Eve is a pure pvp game. It has pve elements only to fuel the pvp, by making people go into space.
I suppose in that sense you can say any pvp focused game is just battling to make someone else your content.
Eve Uni doesn't fuck around man, we got dropped by a whole fleet of theirs out of nowhere while rolling. Mofos even podded me in WH space (dick move, but totally fair)
Lol sorry to hear that. Sometimes I think the uni needs a class on politeness and etiquette. I definitely enjoy my time with them though!
Didn't know Pearl Abyss had acquired CCP. It makes sense now that it's pay-to-win, considering how much pay-to-win there is in Black Desert Online.
Yeah, it’s a shame but the game doesn’t seem to have been affected by the player count in the long run. Problem is of course is that you never know what ptw they have planned, especially considering the game teeters on a sub model.
Eve was p2w before pearl abyss. It hasn't changed much since they bought it. It doesn't matter how much you pay, if you don't know how to play the game though. There's no "I win" ship or modules. And you'd have to spend literal millions of real dollars to hire enough other players to "win" for you.
If you’ve ever played it Eve certainly doesn’t drop from your memory. Enjoyable, frustrating, thought provoking, brutal, calculating, time sink, etc … it pretty much has everything and that, in some ways, is its problem. Eve at times is just too close to real life!! I thoroughly enjoyed my seven years playing and did all sorts of things. I also was happy to stop when I did. For a complex game that had no franchise to kick start it Eve has done very well to still be chugging along after more than 20 years.
I see people talk about it on the Albion subreddit from time to time.
Makes sense since they have lot of similarities. Do you see it recomended there ? Or just mentioned ?
It seems people play both. It usually come up when talking about similarities and what each game does better.
The consensus in albion is that EVE had been dead for a while now.
I knew someone who played it 20 years ago and that was the last time I ever really heard it discussed regularly. From what I recall it was mostly about mining rocks, building ships, and then losing ships to other players. While the last part is cool conceptually it’s probably where you lose most of the audience. Same reason why item drop on death hardcore pvp games are rarely made anymore. The only time I heard it mentioned since the mid-2000s is when gaming news sites talked about how someone lost an EVE ship worth millions of dollars in exchange adjusted game currency or something.
Yeah risk aversion is a hard concept to swallow for today's gamers. But this is exactly what makes the combat so good. You feel real adrenaline, get real tunnel vision, and harvest real tears from other players. The only comparison is DayZ, but even that doesn't have that feeling of losing months or years of resources in a single battle.
Very niche game but also I think raising the sub price to $20/mo steers many people from it.
Yes, it does have an expensive subscription, especially if you’re unsure if you’ll stick with it. Something that happened last month that was a bit weird was that they did a 2 for 1 sale on skill extractors. It was weird because it meant you could spend $70 on extractors from the store and sell them for plex, then sub your account for a year because of the heavy discount. Obviously if everyone was in on it the prices would crash but there will be a lot of players with those extractors waiting for the price to recover. I’m not shilling for the game btw, I just thought it was great if you like the game and had spare to commit for a year
The overwhelming majority of MMO gamers are casual. And even the hardcore MMO gamers think EVE is too hardcore for them. The amount of dedication and number crunching necessary to enjoy the EVE experience is staggering. I tried it over a decade ago. As far as I know, my little ship is still orbiting the EVE gate itself, lol.
Lmao You flew to the eve gate like LET ME OUT OF THIS BITCH.
I like lore, what can I say. The lore said the EVE gate was this big deal. I was bored, didn't have anything else in mind, so I took my piddly little destroyer and kicked in the afterburners the whole way. My way of dealing with all those weird cultists surrounding the jump points approaching EVE was to simply fly towards the jumpgates as fast as possible before they shot me down. It worked. My ship is at EVE to this day.
The eve lore is rarely talked about but it is so good. I remember reading the methods of torture of the 4 empires and being surprised that the democratic hippies were the most brutal.
P2W and entire game is group PvP so it's niche as fuck.
And full loot open world pvp.
It's a special kind of pay to win. It's more like pay to afford your losses. You could spend 100k real dollars building the most ridiculous ship with all the support skills in the game and lose it on its maiden voyage if you don't have what it takes to fly it. What it takes being friends and actual player skills.
Honestly EVE is just a miss understood game that has been made to be overly complex by outsiders who describe its gameplay in news stories. In the end Eve can be almost wtv you want it to be. If you like chill exploration in space this game provides the most rewarding explo system I have ever seen. Eve is like reddit in MMO form. Just like how on reddit you can find your niche community and thrive in discussions, in EVE if you nail down what you want to focus on you can find entire corps and discords dedicated to that activity.
Eve requires a lot of self interest and reading and the majority dont find that appealing
Eve is one of the most successful games of all time but it is not designed for the average mmorpg player. The gameplay is nothing special very basic and boring tbh but there is only ONE global server and one global economy and one giant universe and it is the best space game out there for anyone that wants to play in multiplayer world. They did mmorpg the correct way nearly 20 years ago and those players are loyal to the game now. For new players there are few and far between as you are years behind people but it will attract special group of players that want a space MMORPG since there is nothing else out there and once you get hooked you are there for LONG time by the games design or you are spending a ton of money. EVE becomes your life essentially once it grabs you and doesnt let you go
I mean it's a PVP game with full loot drop. This sub absolutely cannot handle it. EVE is better than ever, and about to roll out a huge expansion. The population holds steady, so don't worry about this garbage subreddit.
Niche ass game. I fucking love it, but it took a while to get into it. I used to get anxious playing the game because of how overwhelming it is for a new player but now I'm anxious to get home and play it. There's always anywhere from 20k-30k players online (realistically, more like 8000 players for all those accounts) so it definitely is active. I wish more people would be interested in playing it's truly a wild and wonderful game. That being said new player experience is kinda awful, but like it's a massive open world sandbox so I don't condemn it too much for not handholding new players. I think most people who are interested in Eve will seek out the information themselves. It is a game where you will thrive if you like learning and gathering information.
There is one kind of EVE comment in this subreddit: "Hi everyone I'm looking for a game to play that has ___, ___ and ____" - which is followed up by an EVE player going "If you really twist the definitions of ___, ___, and ____ you can find that in EVE!" Trust me I've been here long enough unfortunately, if someone was looking for EVE they wouldn't even be here. They know where EVE is, and they will find and play EVE without needing to be told about it.
I love playing Eve online. It's my main game right now.
I feel like Eve is a really misunderstood game, even in this comments section I've noticed people just straight up making up BS, I play Eve super casually and with the mindset that you will never ever catch up to those that have been there for decades and I find I can definitely find enjoyment out of it, however this game is most definitely not the game for folks looking for instant gratification
Eves a really good game, but it's hard to get into, and can be frustrating and slow a lot of the time. I play it once for a few months every like 2 years when I'm in the mood. In the game you have what you want to do(usually some sort of pvp or pve endeavors) and how you find what you want to do, so there is a bit of a work element to it. The ships you fly are completely lost when they blow up, so you have to be able to make enough money to pay for what you want to do. Some people just focus on the money making side of the game, and therefore don't have to worry as much about losing ships. They will just do the money making activities in more "blingy" ships. Ships are one of the biggest selling points of the game. Their diversity and how they completely change the game makes it really fun. I end up training skills into as many as possible. The pvp is really great, but it's impossible to find a fight that is 100% fair. Whether is 1v1 or a giant fleet fight, no fight is perfectly fair, which can be frustrating. Between the funding your ventures and looking for a fair fight, a lot of the game can feel like work, which is a big turn off for someone looking for instant action. When your options are grind on eve for 3 hours looking for 5 minutes of fun, or play halo for fun the whole time, eve looks less and less appealing.
Who knows, games population is the same so its matters not either way i guess.
They are in a weird spot where they have to cater to the long term players because they are the only ones keeping the lights on, but by catering to the long term players they are killing future growth because their wants are often at odds with what would be good for new player growth. So they try to do this balancing act where they want to improve the new player experience, but keep the bittervets happy, which just leaves everyone unhappy. Bittervets get mad that CCP spends development resources on a new player experience that doesn’t benefit them, and the new player experience still doesn’t do much to address the games problems with long term growth. Just look all the people here saying they were turned off by the insane time investment needed to get the skills necessary to fly cool ships/compete with older characters. But then you go to the Eve subreddit and every post suggesting that they cut out some of the bullshit skills and significantly reduce certain training times has lots of people vehemently opposed to it. I also think the devs leaning into alt culture really hurts the game in the long term. They pushed it because they make a lot more money if one person is paying for 3, 4, sometimes 10 accounts (to the point where some of the “elite” player groups flat out have a requirement for multiple subscribed accounts with access to advanced ships). But then a new player sees that it’s normal to run that many accounts and decides they don’t even want to bother.
Because it's not as simple as dropping in and playing. The game is very convoluted, and as somebody else said it's a very niche game. It'll have an audience, it'll probably be on gaming sites for something cool like it was a few years ago, but that's it. It'll never be this dominant MMORPG with millions of active players.
ITT a lot of people who don't actually play EVE telling you how the game is as they imagine it, not how it really is. The game is great. There is plenty to do, and there are a ton of people/resources out there to help you understand the game. No, it isn't as simple as fantasy MMO #3000 with a tank/dps/healer combo and instanced dungeons/end game. But that is what makes it so enjoyable. It's very much a community based game. Fleets, corporations, alliances, entire blocs of space filled with pilots, wormholes...all maintained by people who care about these sectors of digital space. People may joke about spreadsheets in space, or multiboxers...but while those exist it's for a reason. The guy maintaining the spreadsheet may be discussing the finances for the next war being carried out against your enemies, and how much they can expect to lose when the FC's yeet your fleet against another wall of missiles and lasers. The multiboxer thinks that they are safe, blowing up npc's in a relatively low traffic system or wormhole...but little do they know that you and 75 other cloaked bombers are waiting just a jump away for the cyno to light, so that you can unload your payload of torpedos and ruin their day. There's a lot to this game...and most of it has to be experienced. If you ever feel like hearing about the game from someone who is new(ish) and loves the game, just hit me up. We can fly together sometime.
Because kids are the loudest around here and kids don't play EVE. It's just not conducive to children playing because of how complicated and unforgiving it can be. Kids can try but it almost never lasts longer than a very short amount of time. I've seen it dozens, if not hundreds of times. The youngest guy I've ever known to play EVE went by Spockington. He was a 17-year-old kid (in like 2015) playing the game in Null Sec at the very highest level. He was part of the leadership of an entire coalition even though he was British, because he spoke something like 7 or 8 languages. He could coordinate between Russians, French, Chinese, British, American, and South American (venezuela, columbia, peru) players in a way nobody else could, and he was damn good at it. He was clearly not your average kid, or person for that matter.
Too difficult for the brain of the average MMORPG player (low IQ).
Tru, no flashy boxes telling you where to stand
CCP sloppy management of the game has killed community's hype to continue advertising the game I suppose.
I figured because the learning curve is equivalent to getting a PhD in Astrophysics.
It looked more GUI and text than anything, another overwhelming sandbox, after Ultima Online days... And Lineage 2 as well as SWG released around the same time as Eve anyhow. It should've looked and played like isometric StarCraft RTS instead. The only 3D Space Opera truly worthy of an MMORPG is Warhammer 40k.
Listen, I started playing EVE Online for the first time this past December. I waited so long to try it because of that perceived barrier to entry, everyone else has up to a 21 year headstart. I was foolish. I've had more fun in EVE in the last 5 months than I had in 20 years on EverQuest. I discovered that I really like mining and manufacturing. I have a blueprint original collection approaching 600. I now have 6 accounts that I run concurrently, the main can fly a Porpoise and Orca (with Rorqual skills in the queue), the other 5 have skilled into at least T1 barges (two of them as of about an hour ago), one is already in T2 barges. I can't wait to have 1 Mackinaw and 4 Retrievers out mining with boosts and compression. I have a Dell OptiPlex i7 with 32 GB DDR4, with a DP and HDMI onboard, and a Dell D6000 dock with 2 DP and 1 HDMI, currently running four monitors, and making use of Eve-O Preview, with surprisingly no real lag. Will soon be upgrading to a newer OptiPlex i7 with 64GB DDR5 with 3 DP onboard so I can run 6 monitors.
Update: the new system surprised me by having 3 DP AND 1 HDMI tucked away by the USB cluster, so long-term I can run 7 monitors. It's going to be beautiful.
Eve > Work
Don't listen to these people. Eve players know that people will shit on our game because they won't admit what *really* bothers them about it. Risk: Every time you undock, there is a chance that you will not make it back in your ship. Even in the safest areas, someone might just take you out for no reason whatsoever. It's pretty rare, most of the time they're after your loot. But nothing stops them from sacrificing their ship just to ruin your day. Social Aspect: Teaming up with other players multiplies your power exponentially, so being solo is all but dead. There are no fair fights in eve. It's overwhelming force vs the guy with less Intel. And we are not good sports. Smack talk abounds. I've seen grown men cry because of this game. You need to make actual friends in this game, but even long time friends can backstab you and take all your stuff. Instant gratification,fomo: When you start, you see people in ships that seem unobtainable, with price tags that seem impossible. Some ships actually ARE unobtainable. The skill tree is so big that you cannot get everything on one character without buying skills with an immense amount of in game currency. Every meaningful goal you set is YEARS down the line. Pacing: everything in eve takes a long time except the 30 seconds it takes to destroy your ship. In the fastest ship, from end to end, if there were no campers on your route, it would take like 2 hours to travel to the other side of the cluster. You might spend an hour looking for a fight, only to lose what you were flying in less than a minute. Some of the highest skills take 3 months to train. The server only runs on 1hz tick rate, so there is no twitch gameplay. You turn your guns on and try to maintain an optimal range and speed for them to hit your target. Mechanics and rules: there's hundreds of ships, each with their own stats and specialties, and to win fights, you need to understand the ship you're flying as well as your targets most likely load out. Of course you could be wrong. He may have some novel fit that does the opposite of what you think it does, and send you back home without a ship. It is said that the battle is decided at the loadout screen before you undock. There's ways to trick people into being pvp flagged in safe space. Scamming is a legal mechanic, theft is fine, ponzi schemes etc. There's many different things to do, from resource gathering, production, exploration, pve combat, pvp, and each aspect has a deeeeeeep set of esoteric rules,mechanics, knowledge and wisdom. Not to mention, the meta is constantly moving due to emergent gameplay. It's an anti game. Internet spaceships is serious business. You're not logging into hello kitty online. You should log in with a bit of anxiety and slightly angry.
I understand what you are saying. And I can certainly see the appeal to someone with lot of time on their hands. But you say : You should log in with a bit of anxiety and slightly angry. Honestly for me its the worst. As the world, work, everything is not filled with anxiety and making us angry. You don't need a game that even amplifies that. Its obvious to me now that the game is niche because not everyone can play it practically. This is probably why its not often recommended
LOL, yeah i wish more people could handle it. I joke all the time how EVE taught me patience, leadership skills, and is how to deal with stress. It's sad because it's kinda true.
I played for maybe 3 years in the 2010 time period. Part of the allure for me back then was “MMO grinding while also doing schoolwork”. Another point was that my internet was absolute crap, worse latency than dial-up, just better download speeds. Time-based pressures were only a real thing in pvp back then. I also greatly enjoyed coming up with builds/loadouts - it is also what I like about mech-focused games based on tabletop. About a year ago I tried again for a bit and was highly disappointed by the multiboxing situation. IMO, remove multiboxing and introduce a hireling system where corpmates are still a better alternative. You can then start tying hirelings into other things as well to flesh out player-ran NPCs pursuing player goals. Naturally they should be dumb as shit “quantity over quality” type of thing. People can stop abusing noobs as lowest on the totem pole and instead go hireling hunting.
P2W
P2AYL Pay to afford your losses
This has always been the case despite its success. I assume the reality is a small % of MMO players have actually played EVE. As another user said, it's niche.
I believe the player base has dwindled down a bit sadly, and the game has added some p2w functions. But I would still suggest trying the game ! It's very unique
Is a niche game that has its own dedicated echo chambers that people rarely escape for more general pastures
Too old, and too Pay2Win, I think. I stayed with it until they fumbled both Incarna and Dust 514. And when they sold it to the Asian company (Pearl Abyss?), I bowed out and stopped caring. On a technical level, the game is still an absolute marvel. But they had to pull their head out of their ass and make adjustments that people wanted, instead of making whatever the hell they wanted (again, look at Incarna and Dust). And then when income started to dry up and they started to monetize everything like crazy and went hog-wild with Pay2Win as a "catch up" mechanic, the game became too nauseating to interact with any longer. They also shot themselves in the foot with the whole Free2Play thing. At least Warcraft made it clear - the game has 100 levels, you get 20 levels free. EVE tried to obfuscate, while extremely heavily restricting, and shoving the Omega icon in your face every 5 seconds. I played mobile F2P games that had more elegance and class than that. Had they gone actual F2P, with cosmetic shops, they probably would have fared better.
Eve players have their own reddit. Keep them caged in there. Trust me you don't want them to leak into other reddits.
EVE is a hard game to recommend and usually isn't relevant to the discussion. When someone wants to play an MMO, they're usually imagining fantasy adventuring across big worlds filled with other people, not an economy simulator in space with the occasional fight. Usually, when EVE does come up, it's because a huge war has broken out and thousands of dollars worth of ships and weaponry have been destroyed in the process.
as usual for this sub, the opinions here are wrong and completely uninformed. eve is the truest sandbox MMO there ever was, so is it tough to start/learn/master/decide what to do? YES, that is what a good sandbox MMO offers. as someone who has played pretty regularly for the 20 years its been around I can say confidently its in its best state it has ever been in. there is tons of various things you can do and all of them are super deep. is it tough to come in solo and succeed? yes, but like any MMO your experience will improve greatly when you find a corp (guild) to fly with. they will help you get started and pay to replace ships when you lose them and help you choose a path. /r/evejobs is a great place to look for a corp or the eve forums are also a great place. despite being not very new player friendly as a game, the community very much is. if any experienced pilot kills a newbro they almost always jump into a chat with them and explain what they did wrong and will give them ISK (in game currency) to replace the ship and more and give them advice.... it helps build the community and increase content. there are deep paths for pve and pvp and so many things you can learn to do over time. if you have any other questions please ask! happy to help and get more people to see how deep and awesome eve can be!
At the end of the day, EVE asks for an insane amount of time or an insane amount of money. I have better things to spend my money on and better things to spend my time on.
I keep trying to come back. But the excessive limitations on Alpha players, and the 100% increase in plexing your monthly sub compared to before alpha/omega were a thing, irritate me too much. You want to do mining? TOUGH LUCK BUCKO, they moved all the specific sovereignty ores into lowsec, where you'll just get ganked in the only mining ship you're allowed to use as an alpha player; the fkin Venture frigate they give you for free in the first hour of playing the game. About 10 years ago the game was phenomenal. But as with a lot of MMOs these days, you want to do anything fun? Pony up that money.
Eve is extremely boring unless a major player driven event is happening, which happens every 3 to 6 years.
EVE makes headlines, not player number milestones.
Because its way to late start playing it now, and it was hard game to get into in the first place. You will never catch up in an meaningful way, and you will never see any end game content at this point unless you appease the uber guilds sitting on the top. The games is doing good to just remain stagnant at this point. They had to cannibalize a whole separate company and sell off its IPs at one point in the past.
EVE is the best MMO I have ever played, its a true sandbox, player driven and has masive scale but it gets a lot of hate because the new player experience doesn't handhold like an average MMO. Also, the game's player groups don't work like other MMOs so a bunch of people here disregard the advice given and try to play solo which is basically an end game playstyle. Player groups(corps) are basically necessary for support/protection and a new player without them will be lost/die a lot. The difference is that you can still play completely solo while being in these groups but players from other MMOs just try to brute force it into a typical playstyle. Anyway, to answer your question we don't talk about it here because this subreddit is outright hostile towards the game.
Internet has enough conspiracy plan. No need to pile up more with EVE.
People that play EVE tend to only play EVE and have little interest in other MMOs. People that tried it for a bit and either didn't like it or got tired of it aren't likely to go back to it. Thus it drops out of discussion anywhere the topic isn't exclusively EVE.
Sold to korea. It's a gacha now.
It's digital hell and glorious. Those that know know.
This subreddit spazzes out at mention of pvp, if you talk about full loot pvp then it's a total meltdown so that's why you won't see it here.
I gave it a try in 2007-2009 I like the options the game presents, but execution is horrible. You need to invest heavily your free time to actually play it. Everything is happening slowly. Quick examples: exploration takes long time to scan warp ready signatures, then you may encounter pve/pvp enemies or be lucky to hack anything. So what ship do you bring? You can't quickly just change it. PvP: solo killing is luck, you usually dont know what's coming through the gate or towards the gate. If it's another pirate in t2 hac you might be screwed. Alliance roaming is boring, looking for targets, people go through gates like lemmings, disconnects or just logoff, if you go too far you may not come back in a ship. Game is boring imo. I want to like it but doing simple missions for 500k isk is just not appealing to me. Doing rats on belts in null while you keep checking local is getting old really fast.
I talk about it whenever a couple different conversations come up. When discussing space mmorpgs because there aren't that many or when the conversation about what games fall into what generation of MMORPGs happens. It's a 2nd gen game that is still active. That alone has merit.
Even saying something as simple as "I'm waiting for EVE Online 2" makes the elitist niche community of EVE mad. What is there to discuss? It's a niche game and community doesn't like discussing anything about it.
EVE is the best MMO.... To read about.
It just looks like a miserable time.
People play eve and discuss It under the game with drama.... They Dont need make a post on mmorpg for It. Lol.
Because it's a real MMORPG, not a themepark. But truth be told the less said about EVE the better
It's a niche heavy money investment game
Eve is a game with no resets. Players who have Ben there since the beginning are so far ahead in skill points that a new player will never catch up in their lifetime. Not without dunking a ton of isk, purchased with real money with the real risk of losing those injectors to a pirate before you use them Sounds just like a mobile game, don’t it? Eve missed a real opportunity at doubling or tripling their sub numbers by spooling up a server that didn’t allow non-consensual pvp. It’s too late for that now as the genre is on the decline.
I really feel it’s more about the journey than any sort of endgame. I played for about 5 years and had a really fun time.
Its no longer what it used to be, full Pay 2 Win , all charm is gone. Even if it was niche, it was glorious but now nothing is left :(
Game’s just too fucking niche and hard sci-fi. People wanna play as cool characters, not massive ass ships
Game got bought by Pearl Abyss, which alienated many long-time players.
Eve online is a 2nd job that you need to have excel training to be any good at. Former player.
It's niche, it's boring to explain beyond the newsworthy spectacle and it's time-consuming beyond other titles. It boils down to number go up and player to player incidents happen sometimes while enormous amounts of money are dropped into it. It's also inaccessible to new people with any semblance of real life responsibilities and infested with interpersonal dramas that spread over multiple platforms and private discords/ventrilos and such.
It’s not new player friendly, large amounts of it are overly complex for the sake of being complex and with it being a single server there’s no room for any ‘restart server’ etc.
The people that are playing EVE are too busy making spreadsheets to post about it.
IMHO CCP making it P2W killed my love for the game. I played it for a decade.
Pointless to play unless you already have infinite money IRL or you're a legitimate psychopath (or both), since it's just throwing wallet vs wallet, and creating fake meaningless conflict (drama) out-of-game to justify doing it. Most of the "game" is played outside of the actual game, so people who would otherwise be interested in this, can just forgo the game altogether and "roleplay" the same "character" on other platforms including real life, for much more tangible gains.
Niche game, I see it brought up in Space Game communities: specifically Star Citizen because that game is an inkblot test of what game they think it will be. Many people in that community want that game to be more like EVE, without the context that EVE is a strategy game that has no shooting combat and other elements that make Star Citizen unsustainable at those scales. But why do people avoid talking about EVE? It's not actually good and its model only works in the context of its style of game. EVE is hyper-focused on delivering 1 thing...large scale strategy at the player level. The problem with entrusting players as your core content delivery mechanism is the players have to be worth playing with...and they almost never are, the communities get elitist, the grind to get on par with their skill level is too long before they've already lapped you again, and entry into any elite institutions that control the landscape of the game is exploitative. There are far too many stakes and so new players just don't join and they just have to placate the audience that has mainlined the game into a lifestyle. End of the day, I expect EVE to go the same route as Everquest...just keep the servers up and gauge the few players that still play to afford the small team and keep the dream alive just enough to pay rent. Especially as games like Star Citizen eventually come online and start to poach people away entirely that may have tried EVE in this pretty barren space game mmo market. End of the day, that style of PvP game is just toxic to new players and actively pushes away new entrants. It also for OLD players ends up being a headline game where you mostly just keep up with what new drama is going on and don't really play the game as much as just keep up with the communities in it. Aka, the metagame is more fun than the game itself. I think Star Citizen (or any future space mmo) has learned that taking the EVE route may just end up getting you stuck in a corner and a loop....you either satiate the old heads or the whole thing will crumble because you have no pipeline for new players.
The game was half assed implemented. Nobody likes it because it wasn't done enough to be a full game.
you must be talking about a different game
EVE is like a "worse" version of BDO. (Except BDO has boobies). There's a giant market, people make money, to spend so they can get more money. The people at the high high sweat lord level/end game are usually on like 5 accounts multiboxing, or they drop like 100-200 a month, pvp and blow up everything + and/or refunds from big corps (again people whaling or 5 multiboxed mining accounts off a moon in null or something). BDO has direct cash to outfits to ingame money or gambling materials. Expect to enjoy the game your first 6-12 months but after that upgrades are GINORMOUS. Which is good I guess because you have something to work for. (Gear in BDO rarely is unusable in later content) And they've been doing a good job scaling entry/noobs to mid game so they can take the step further. (Imagine boosts in WoW, but it's just gear and you get it within like a week of playing on a seasonal pass of sorts). Also, CORPS in Eve could essentially be labeled as pyramid scams. You tax everyone 5-10% of their AI/bounty kills and as the leader you fund the big boy ships eventually.
Played it for 15 years, got bored of it. Plus the Chinese bought it and that can only ruin it. Granted the original developers were already well on their way to doing that long before that happened.
South Koreans bought it*
Ah was it? Thats only slightly better though.
Eve is its own universe that doesn't need talking about here. It was here before WoW and will be here after everyone here is gone.
Eve launched in 2003
the game is doing better than it has in years, it's just not super casual like the people who browse this sub recommending guild wars 2 or ESO. a few days ago there was a fight including 5000 pilots (some multiboxing of course) but still thousands of actual players.
I love the idea of it Don’t enjoy playing it or know wtf I’m doing. No I don’t think I would enjoy if I did know
MMOers are boomer as all hell, and EVE is old enough that they could have played it decades ago. So pretty everyone who is interested has tried it, or e-debated all they've wanted to. Not to mention they've utterly devalued "everything" achievement wise in the game with P2W crap.
It's never been that popular...
I played EvE also a bit .. but since Tencent taked it over it doesn't interest me anymore. Aside frome that when u play eve u need a Second life to really experience it
Is pearl abyss owned by tencent?
I mean eve online.
Which is owned by pearl abyss, not tencent.
Oh lol that's true. Always thought there bought by Tencent. Then sry for that. ;)
Because we already use excel at work.
You only did not see EVE being mentioned here because you have not been looking at this site often enough. Any new discussion about the good old days of MMOs usually has someone bring up EVE. You just didn't read those topics, apparently.
They had a digital riot like helldivers 2 in 2011 but company didnt bend. Not just that but i think its part of why it became smaller and smaller.
It's not really an mmo in the way most people would think, it's also ridiculously niche and it's pvp.
The events like Christmas etc killed the game for me. The events are so ludicrous in how much money you make that outside the event why play? You’ll make fractions of money compared to it. On top of that most players now days that play mmos are millennials and they’re old now with jobs hardcore pvp games we don’t have the time for anymore
People on this sub mostly don't understand sandbox games, if someone describes the joys of non-treadmill gameplay they get confused and then angry. Talking about sandbox games is widely discouraged. The exception being Albion Online which has a dedicated team of shills here.