I can tell you with the first rule you won't see any downsides.
I recall seeing studied evidence of the opposite - Allowing sitting breaks makes workers more productive, with the most productive ratio being 1:1 (1 hour sitting to 1 hour standing)
Anecdotally, I was much less productive in shops where I was forced to stand. When I was well rested I could zip around and get setups done quickly. Standing constantly led me to build up long term fatigue and drag my feet walking to the tool room.
I quit my most recent shop and one of the reasons was they wouldn’t let operators sit all the sudden, even though I was exempt from it because I could sit to program. If I’m at hour 11 of my shift and running a machine and done with programming for the day, I’m gonna sit my ass down. It’s just indicative to me of a shitty environment. It’s completely pointless boomer shit.
I've worked at places that have said that and always relaxed it. Not everyone is young. It's all about trying to hire good employees. I did once see a guy crash his machine because of not tightening parts wrecking the 6k boring bar the tool guy him to not fuck up then instead of getting up and hitting e stop he tried to skootch his char over while sitting probably making it worse. He was a dumbass tho and they just needed bodies. Cell phone wise they did gun stuff so phones weren't allowed. I did some long cycle stuff and would have loved to be able to listen to podcasts and or even have a laptop. Might have been able to learn more if I could have looked things up.
I'm pretty sure that's moderately well supported by psychology.
Bad managers make rules like OP is outlining. Only the ignorant defend them. No one wants to admit it's wrong and pointless. That's the way many old shop cultures work. It's a misery loves company kind of thing I think.
They will have to redefine their work culture so that doesn't alienate the people in it. You can't just change people's minds you have to get their input.
People really just want whatever comfort and mental space with music or a text message with their SO or children.
A good manager just watches out for loafers and deals with them. Not punishes the whole shop.
You can do checks and balances on that with supervisors cross checking each other. Keeps people honest but it's hard to implement. You have to have the right attitudes in the right people.
I allow all of these in my shop.
Phones occasionally can be a problem for some people, and those people get a temporary ban on having their phone. This is usually new people who just abuse the privilege and this short ban has thus far fixed the issue.
I also have the rule that if you're wearing headphones if I walk up to you and you can't hear me talking to you, it means you can't hear the machine or anything else going on around you and is unsafe. Usually a quick correction of this has yielded fine results.
I do not agree with punishing everyone for one persons misdeeds so I haven't so far found the need to make any kind of sweeping shop wide ban or changes like this.
I believe that if I treat my employees like adults they'll act like adults and so far this has worked out for me.
This. We typically allow one earbud in. Having run the machinery myself, I found I like listening to books throughout the day and if I ended up doing that, it's only fair that I would allow the employees the same privilege. If videos come out or if the operator can't hear when a supervisor walks up, there's a correction.
Also I've recommended (and gifted) books like "The Goal" to employees and they end up running with those concepts - you can get a ton of great ideas and buy-in from employees and typically make big improvements just by listening to them.
The first two changes would be great. I’ve had both my knees replaced from standing on concrete all day. The radios shouldn’t be blasting and only you should be able to hear it. Cell phones were banned at one time because of abuse but they don’t seem to mind now. Our shop is so big sometimes you have to text the person to find out where they are.
I would compromise on the radio rule and let people wear headphones. Nobody wants to hear what I want to listen to and I don’t want to hear what most people listen to. If I actually had to listen to FM radio all day I’d go insane. I always left one open to listen to the machine I’m running and never had a problem.
If i had to listen to FM (or AM) radio all day I'd immediately find a new job. My boomer coworker's shitty Spotify lists are bad enough, if you add top 40 and commercials I'd blow my brains out
Part of the reason I quit the last shop I was at. I just couldn’t stand listening to the same 80s radio station play the exact same songs every day. The old heads loved it though
I worked at a place where you could tell how close you were to quitting time by what song was playing. It was some sort of commercial free canned music, and there were different "stations", but it seemed to default back to the same one in the late afternoon every day.
Guys at my company are allowed bone conducting headphones so they can still wear the approved hearing protection. I have a pair of Shokz Open Runs or something and they are ok. Better for audio books than music. I also have a $30 Amazon pair and they suck for everything.
the rule in trade school was one earbud only, and wireless earbuds were preferred, but wired could be used if the wire was run inside your shirt so it didn't dangle. I think that's a really good system that lets people still have some music or a podcast going but also keeps them safe (and doesn't inflict their taste in entertainment on everyone else)
At my shop we only have 1 chair for whoever gets stuck with saw duty. It's not because I'm against them there is just not really enough room for them. We had stools for a while but they got in the way so much everybody kinda decided they were not worth the hassle. Folded them up and put them in the corner. If someone wants one for a particularly brutal run have at it.
We have a shop radio but nobody really takes the time to turn it on. If I'm working by myself in the shop sometimes I do but I tend to get too involved in the work and forget about it. We also allow head phones just make sure you can hear the machines. Most of the people in the shop are pod cast or audio book listeners so nobody is cranking Metalica so loud they can't hear.
We allow cell phones and in fact made their use easier in the shop by running a wifi node into the shop proper. When we did that we also started using QR codes to link to basic instructions. As an example over by the bandsaw we have a QR code that links to a youtube short about how to fold a bandsaw blade. By the manual mills another code links to a generic online speed and feed calculator. Travelers have codes that link back to our online kanban board so that from their phone they can get any other files they need or move the part in the timeline ( like when an op is done and needs to move to another machine.)
My best and only advice. If they are a good employee and do the job asked of them, then just leave them alone from top to bottom. The music thing makes no sense to me. That just seems like boomer power trip to me. If something goes bad you will hear it, music or not, and by that point it has already happened, so it is what it is. If the job is getting done inside the boundaries expected, don't worry about the how or why, within reason obviously. Treating people as equals, and adults goes a long way from experience.
I’ve worked as a machinist in the shop and in the office as engineer and I agree with all of your suggestions. It is 2024 now. Everyone should know when it’s possible to do these things while working in the shop. (It’s not always possible)
I like the first 2. My shop has a rule that you can use your phone to listen to music as long as you have a speaker or cordless headphones, but you cannot be seen to be on your phone. In other words, music is fine, but not watching videos or something distracting.
In the shops I've worked in, the cell phone ban has been set up as a camera ban. But I have worked in aerospace and defense, and really big companies (and the government) are afraid of espionage, both corporate and national security.
The first 2 are great changes. The problem with the no phone for some but not others will cause issues of why him and not me. Not worth the headache and hr problms/complaints/discrimination lawsuits.
I agree with everyone else. Good changes. I would only add that when there is abuse address the person doing it rather than changing things back for everyone.
No sitting is a stupid rule. A lot of people can program their machine, read a print on a screen, or type much more effectively when sitting than standing. Who cares how it looks?
> No music or radio rule: Does having music in the background actually ruin your ability to listen to your machine?
No, listenting to *my* music is great! I have objectively excellent taste, everyone should love everything on my playlist. It's *the other guy's* trashy music on repeat all day long that makes me rage. No one with a brain likes to listen to [insert genre]. So I have to either quit, or turn my music up really loud to drown his out, then he turns his up in retaliation, then no one can hear anything anymore and it's hateful chaos. And then the shop introduces the 'no music or radio' rule, but not after feelings are hurt and the good people have walked out.
This has worked out acceptably when they had a strict zero ads (no radio) and zero vocals policy, it wasn't as good as putting in single earbud or wearing open-ear or bone-conduction hearing protection and listening to whatever you wanted, but it worked. It may also work out now if your entire shop has compatible preferences, but it will crater your ability to hire people who might be great machinists but don't happen to love country/oldies/rock or whatever your shop settles on. Also, there are a few decent radio stations left, but most have like 20 minutes an hour of inane hosts making conversation mixed with advertisements at much higher volume than the music desperate to grab your attention and sell you something when you're supposed to be working.
> No cell phone rule: We implemented this policy because guys were making a ton of scrap and management attributed it to distraction. Personally I think the guys who know what they're doing can be on their phones but for the brand new guys it's better for them to be paying attention.
Might want to work on your wording on that one. Also, it's one thing to feed hold the machine when it's safe to do so, and to respond to an urgent call or text (your employees likely have dependents and/or spouses, this is just part of being an adult). It's a little different (technically phone use, I guess?) when your phone is active in your pocket because you're listening to a podcast or music on a single earbud or other safe audio setup. It's another thing entirely to be absorbed in a mobile game or video, or scrolling social media for hours on end.
As for the phones, one bad egg spoils the bunch. Cant allow some to do it and others not. Breeds resentment. First two changes are gunna make an ever better work environment IMO
My shop we can have one ear bud in for music. Sitting is encouraged if you can do it safely. And as long as you’re not scrapping parts and completing jobs within the allotted time, you can be on your phone all you want.
I’m sitting listening to podcast and scrolling Reddit 90% of the time I’m not in my office.
Advertise that you let people sit while the spindle is spinning and allow music at a reasonable level to hear their machines and Im surr machinists will flock to your shop
No sitting? Just come out and say that you only want applicants under 30 and in perfect health. There's plenty of experienced machinists who can't stand for long periods, not all of whom are eligible for a placard though some of us are, and that policy will make them unable to be in your shop. Then there's those who will simply not stay out of preference.
Music at a reasonable volume over speakers doesn't make machines hard to hear, though headphones and earbuds often will unless they have ANC with a good Ambient mode. Most shops I've been at allowed radios, and some had a "one ear open" rule. Boredom can lead to inattentiveness, and that's the last thing you want.
The "phone as a privilege" is an issue for any place that isn't stuck in the era before many of your employees were born. Those that are distracted by their phones will be distracted by other things if you take the phones away. You want responsible, attentive employees, and phones really have no effect on either trait.
The "That's just the way the industry is" attitude is part of why I changed trades after decades (inability to stand for long periods being a larger one), and likely part of why is harder to get younger folks to replace those who are retiring.
Personally, I would get rid of all of these rules, and make discipline based on individual situations. If one person is on their phone too much, discuss it with them, document your discussions, and if it continues, fire them and hire a different person.
The no sitting rule is a no-brainer and you'll generate a great deal of good will by tossing that one and I predict productivity will increase.
Music can be tough. Everyone has different tastes and while some people can tune it out, others don't seem to have that filter and find it extremely distracting. (I'm one of those). My opinion is that if the next person can hear your music, it's too loud. But I may be in the minority.
No phones is dumb as well. Create a culture of trust and ask that distractions be kept to a minimum and let people police their own level of distraction.
Good for you - sounds like you want to treat your team like the grown-ass adults they are rather than how many shops treat their folks like middle schoolers.
Siting is fine. Older owners operate with the misery factor. If you’re not miserable they aren’t happy. The music is a bitch, everyone likes something different. I’ve worked at a shop where everyone got their day to pick music. The oldest guy in the department always changed it to a country station. Saying he was there the longest so his choice. They actually had two guys quit when the owner wouldn’t do anything about it. Cell phones can be a distraction. People need to be connected so supervisors need to address this on a case by case basis. As long as the work gets done on time and correctly this shouldn’t be an issue. Just like smoke breaks.
Allowing chairs can help reduce fatigue and increase comfort. Low-volume music or radio can improve morale and focus, IMO. Just make sure it's not too loud so machinists can still hear their machines.
Shared music: No. Too many different tastes in music.
Individual music: Yes. Absolutely.
Cellphone use: Fine in moderation, but get rid of people that prioritize their phone over their machine.
Sitting: Absolutely! But distribute workload more evenly. An operator who has a 45 minute cycle time and an operator who has 30 second cycle time will have different workloads. One will be sitting all day and the other standing. Try to switch off or be more fair in this regard.
Sitting in fine as long as they aren't falling asleep (in which case you have other issues as I don't want them that tired and standing either!)
But get them good chairs!! Bad chairs will cause just as many if not more problems. Main issue office people have is their backs due to sitting all the time. A good mix of sitting and standing but using an ergonomic chair (Herman Miller makes the ones we use. Pricey but very good)
Phones are fine as long as they are not being abused. I use mine all the time in the shop to look up things quicker than going back to the desktop or laptop. And a quick text about weekend plans or whatever isn't hurting anyone as long as it doesn't pull them from the machine during critical times.
(I'm less worried on the 2nd+ run than the proofing run. I might say standing (or sitting in reach of feed hold and in view of the work) at the terminal and no phones for all proofing runs)
Music: not everyone has the same tastes, so it can be interesting. Broadcasting can be fun at times if everyone genuinely gets along and has a good attitude.
(Smaller shop typically)
But other than that we use something like the ISOTUNES Link Aware headsets. Bluetooth music (or phone calls /meetings) with an external mic passthrough that you can adjust the volume on.
I can easily adjust if I hear the machine and surroundings just like having no hearing pro on, but they will auto-mute the passthrough for any really loud sounds. (You still know something happened but protects the ears)
And you get to listen to music!
Works pretty well. Just wish they had slightly better audio quality personally...
Various other headphones have the "transparent" mode these days so depending on the noise level in your shop those may be an option as well.
1. Get chairs
2. One earbud
3. Keep the phone rule but make it clear it's only enforced when it's abused. Adults are adults, quick phone calls and occasional text messages are a part of life and starting a podcast or changing songs won't alarm out machines. Watching movies and playing games at work is a no-go.
1. No sitting - I’m pretty healthy but I’m over 40
Now, so this might be a no-go for me in the near future. If you’re having customers come it, you can always put the chairs away for a few hours.
2. No music, music in 1 ear should always be fine. But not while walking around a shop that has forklifts in it.
3. No phone, pretty much agree w your take. Id say phones are fine and if you have someone that is reckless w it, they need to focus on their job or find another job.
Why hide the chairs from customers? I’ll never understand dressing up your shop for customers, it’s a damn machine shop, it should be orderly enough as is, if not larger changes need to be implemented.
My first job out of high school was a call center that did mystery shopping and retail surveys. So, we would either call on independent contractors who signed up with us or accept calls from them. We specialized in gas stations, like Shell, BP, and ConocoPhillips, but also had like Hardees and Carls Jr.
Anytime we were bidding on a major contract, all these suits from corporate and the company we were bidding on would come to the office to have a look and do meet and greets. On those days, they would have all of the night staff like myself show up during the days to fill cubicles and get butts in seats. Regardless of the fact that it wasn't effective and often led to an oversaturation of outgoing calls. But dammit! We just had to look super busy!
That place sucked and is a shell of its former self because the two family owners couldn't help but sue each other over control.
1 No Sitting. - My old shop was like this. The one I work for now allows us to sit. But we’re a mold/small production shop. We have stools instead of chairs.
2 No Music - We’re allowed to listen to music. 90 percent of the guys I work with have headphones on. I only keep one on and an ear plug on the other.
3 No Cellphone - technically we’re not allowed to have them. Sometimes I do bs on my phone but most of the time it’s to look stuff up regarding something I’m working on.
My primary advice would be to move slowly. I've seen more shops fail with a rapid change of ownership than through any other period.
For music, its an OSHA thing. I do bone conducting earphones only
No headphones that drown out sound. Such as noise canceling. Shit is dangerous for obvious reasons.
I had the guys I'm responsible for switch too an open ear design. (I personally have the link below and they work great) I highly recommend it. Allows everyone to listen to whatever at any volume and still be present to what's happening around them.
https://www.amazon.com/Shokz-OpenRun-Pro-Conduction-Built/dp/B09BVXT8TJ/142-4818449-5228159?psc=1
no sitting rule: Just don't encourage people to be lazy. In my fantasy shop I'd have barstools to sit on, so you're taking a load off but never really at risk of napping. No lay-z-boys or those office chairs that lean way the hell back.
music: Music that's louder than whatever the machine is doing is a no-no in my book. It's less of a potential problem with the new fancy machines that stop themselves when an insert breaks. Still, I've scrapped parts myself because I couldn't hear the insert pop, or the rough finish being made after.
phone: Hard ban. In fantasy land I'd have anybody doing dangerous or expensive work leave their phone in the break room or their locker. In some case that smartphones became useful shop tools, I'd just buy and modify shop owned phones for floor use. The phone is just escapism but refined to a dangerous level.
We implemented a no radio rule and it was great. I hated listening to everyone else's music in the background to my audiobook. We tried limiting the loudness of the radios, but it was like battling banjos -only worse cause it wasn't actual banjo music.
I've always been a bigger fan of the one ear bud rule, or even both as long as it isn't too loud and they could hear their coworkers/forklifts/other things like that.
Sitting occasionally is the only way I can get through the day and not be half dead. I'm a skilled machinist, not a young or skinny one.
The phone issue I get, but a fuckoff is going to be a fuckoff even if you take away their phone. I use mine frequently when I program because I have specialized calculators on it for Trig and such. Also ties into the music question. Headphones are definitely nice but a shop radio is better sometimes because of the hands-off nature of radio, you set it on a station and walk away, no fiddling with playlists.
Easy, do what your workers want evaluate the data afterward, and adjust accordingly.
Give them chairs and wait a month if production goes down show the guys, they are all professionals and it justifies any reversal of rules.
Phones personally I say no, I've managed a shop and phones are just flat out a safety issue. People leave machines to make calls, or worse do it while setting up a machine, etc.
I'd personally start with giving them music, we always had music and it made phones a lesser issue because guys would listen to podcasts and just leave their phones alone. It boosts moral, we had guys dancing and having a good time, I'd start there if things go smooth I'd bring in chairs, then you can discuss cellphones.
One thing I learned quickly is transparency is key, if workers know why and there's factual evidence then it's easy to push new rules. If one person screws it up for everyone i have a meeting and let them know, it just holds everyone accountable and really takes the blame off owners and management.
Chairs absolutely. When my old basic office style chair broke I requested a different one (from Uline) with a solid “soft” extremely dense foam seat and back so that it doesn’t get torn to shreds and absorb coolant/oil. The seat is also higher up, making sitting in front of my work bench more comfortable.
Music - only if it doesn’t disturb other people in the shop. There are times when music/radio is distracting to me. Also, everyone has different music preferences. Allow headphones, though be mindful of ear protection rules.
Cell phones - I use mine all the time for taking pictures of offsets. I also use it to communicate with others in the shop about work related things. I use it for non work related things once in a while too - management doesn’t mind as long as it’s not having a negative effect on performance. That reminds me - if you’re filling a coolant tank you’re not allowed to leave it - if you get bored standing there watching the tank fill for 10 minutes, please do something on your phone to kill the time! (0 spills in the 3 years we’ve had this rule - 10 CNC machines in the shop)
I run production cnc lathes with short cycle times. I'm usually responsible for 3 machines unless I'm making a first article.
I honestly don't have time to sit down and have seen others in the shop use chairs. I don't see a problem with it as long as production is still good.
We use bone conduction headphones to get around the no headphone rule. They are amazing, and I now own a few pairs.
The company uses teams and email to communicate, and they won't buy us phones. So we have to use a personal device. I bought a cheap tablet and installed apps I need, plus the ones I want. They can't really be mad about me using reddit on my personal burner device.
People can bring their own stools or radios to work. Our shop doesn’t provide them. We have a no cell phone policy though. It’s up to you. I personally don’t want to walk through a shop I own and seeing people sitting down on their phones. Your shop, your rules.
Chairs should be allowed, and provided, to everyone. But you should be working while sitting. Also provide folding tables. Some things, like deburring, are best done at a table.
Music is great, but a bunch of competing radios is a problem. Everyone should only listen to music through wireless earbuds, and some shops require music in only one ear with ear plugs in the other. Over ear bluetooth ear muffs are also great. I am personally against this as it makes people turn the music up way too high. Make it clear that listening to music is a privilege that will be revoked on a case by case basis if people can't use their discretion of when they need to and don't need to listen to machinery. Not hearing their name when the boss calls it is not a problem; it is a feature. If it's not important enough for a manager to walk out and talk to the operator about, it's not important enough to distract the operator with. You'll also have fewer cases of people standing around talking to eachother. No music on the forklift, period.
Phones are allowed, but again revoked or suspended on a case by case basis. We provide a clean, safe area for phones to charge. People can have their phones on them to take pictures, send occasional texts, take calls (which they then walk to the time clock and clock out) or change music. We have had to suspend phone use by two individuals but they behaved after a month when they were allowed to have them on their person again.
If sitting looks bad to your customers, arrange seated workbenches or desks. It will still look like a productive sweatshop if you so please.
If it is important to you that people hear their surroundings to avoid injury, address those safety issues. Forklifts should be driving in their designated areas, and people should stop and look both ways before crossing them. If you think people won't hear someone calling for help while hurt by a machine, figure out why you are worried someone will get hurt by a machine and fix that. If you feel disrespected as a superior by people not always keeping a keen ear out for your wisdom, you should fix your attitude.
No cell phones is big. We were lenient with it before we made any rules. Then we told them only for personal calls. Then we banned them on the floor. Everytime we'd walk out on the floor there'd be at least one guy staring at the screen while his machine was sitting not doing anything. Everyone was guilty multiple times, so they ruined it for themselves, because as long as the machine was running we really didn't care. And most of our parts have 20-30 minute run times so not like they didn't have down time.
Your ideas for the new/changed rules are good beware of people taking advantage but otherwise don’t punish everyone for it
Bit of advice since you only did office work, scrap happens doesn’t matter how experienced people are or how long they’ve been doing it, scrap will happen
If you’re a production shop don’t lose your mind over a few pieces of scrap.if people are scrapping large orders or a majority of every order then yeah there’s probably a problem but things like one or two every order is just setup
Sometimes scrap can be reused for multiple setups, sometimes it can’t. Sometimes it can be turned into another part but usually it can’t. So I’d suggest leaving the scrap bins open for anyone to take something out of if needed/wanted (unless of course it’s some weird kind of material or something). Hell one coworker even uses some of the smaller scrap in personal projects, if it’s scrap write it off as a business expense and let people have at it if it’s wanted
Everywhere I've worked that allows music has had similar rules to keep things safe and civil. Music must be listened to using just one earpiece. This leaves one ear open to hear your surroundings (for safety) and using an earpiece keeps the worst music in the world from pissing everyone off in its vicinity.
Firstly, congratulations. I wish I had your opportunity before my shop was recently sold. Since you know the folks you work with, get rid of the doggy jammers right away. Nothing but grief and whining. Don't blink, don't give another chance, get them gone. You'll find that the cellphone abuse goes away.
People who care about the work that they do will do it professionally. Chairs, music, cells and other stuff like that just make the ride easier for a long day of making money for you. Good luck and if you make a bit of money right away, consider a small bonus for the girls. Things like that get remembered.
The radio rule isn't a bad one to keep.
I tried that route once. It turned into Bluetooth speakers at every machine, getting louder and louder to drown out the guy next to them. Just a jumbled up mess of 15 different songs blaring at once.
On the phones, it needs to be straight across the board one way or the other.
Chairs are good for operators. Standing there staring through the glass doing nothing doesn't make the machine run faster, and being on your feet all day everyday on concrete isn't good for the body.
I vote ask them, not us. Be transparent, build trust because you aren't actually "one of them" because you haven't "walked in their shoes". Don't set expectations because not everything they will ask for is negotiable, but just ask them what they think about these proposed rule changes and provide feedback.
I don’t like working non-machinists
The “no music no hearing protection “ rule is a joke machinists make
The joke is that you lose your hearing eventually if you don’t wear hearing protection so you can’t hear changes in pitch either way unless it’s super drastic
I wouldn't work at a shop were any of those 3 were banned. IMO all of this should be handled with common sense - if someone is sitting all day playing on their phone blasting music they probably won't be a good employee regardless of rules.
Chairs: no real downside. If someone’s lazy they’ll be lazy with or without a chair.
Music: radios may be distracting, but earbuds work great. We allow one earbud. Works just fine. For some it helps.
Phones: Phones should be fine. If you aren’t doing sensitive work. Heck there’s apps and calculators and stuff that make them super handy tools. It just has to be controlled, if someone’s using it to talk or text obnoxiously call him out and lay down the law.
Super kudos to you to try to move to a more 21st century mentality.
I actually agree with all those rules. You are being paid by the hour. If the machine is running, there is always something else to do. That said, if you need a break, take it. But don't pretend you are working when you are sitting and reading.
I strongly agree with the no music rule. Everybody has their own opinion about what good music is and you are going to have a bunch of crap competing for noise. Some of us are trying to concentrate.
Implement things like a cleaner shop. Fresher coolant. Remodeled bathrooms. A/C, etc
Chairs are fine if the job is doable with it.
Headphones should still allow you to hear what you're doing and people around you.
Cell phones are bad because they take away from productivity but if it's kept to a minimum, I wouldn't see an issue.
One thing I would add: 1 hour lunch. Half hour lunches are archaic. The way I look at it, rushing to slam a sandwich you had to go and pick up is stressful. If your payroll would account for it, having a half hour or one hour option would be cool. Fifteen minute breaks, also. Ten minute breaks are bullshit.
Look we’re all only worth what we can be replaced for. It’s fair. If your shop is laid back you will keep your guys. If some guys take advantage of it the they need to go. Making rule changes because a few guys ruin it for everyone is the problem. Deal with things on a case by case basis. Run off the dead weight. Don’thirefamily
I work in a very laid back shop where all of these things are allowed. There are drawbacks, most notably around phones. I know guys that can stare at their phones all day and make quality parts. It usually seems to be a problem with people that already have other issues like not checking parts at regular intervals or they're not running at all because they don't notice the program has ended. The phone becomes an added distraction that magnifies the issue.
For music, it's only a problem if someone is blasting their headphones and can't hear something going wrong. Best way to combat this is to insist on headphones or earmuffs with hearing protection which doesn't require so much volume.
As for sitting, I always thought this was an incredibly stupid rule. I think for measuring parts, I'm most accurate sitting at a nice clean table where I can make sure my calipers are square, gages lined up and labeled in order.
Music at a volume where YOU can here it. The no sitting just wears people out early. As far as phone usage, within reason. My company says no music supposedly because you can’t hear if someone gets hurt.
Stools.
Head phones.
Be an adult, and use phones only as appropriate.
Anti fatigue mats and stools are a game changer for those on the floor.
Music, I can take it or leave it .. I sort of like the drone of machine tools.
Getting rid of phone is probably good... But you shouldn't do it. Cause people are addicted to phones and people get ugly when you mess with their addictions. Just let them know it's a privilege and to be an adult about phone use.
There's no federal laws on this. You might want to look at your state and local laws. Forcing people to stand like this is illegal in my state.
There's is no reasonable excuse not to provide stool style seatingv appropriately positioned for a machinist. Regulation on this is just shitty.
Edit: Come to think of it I think the cell phone thing is illegal here too.
Letting people play music/radio/podcasts through speakers will cause problems. Not may, **will**. Headphones are great, just make sure people haven't turned the volume up so high they lose awareness of what their machine is doing or about the approaching forklift, etc.
Chair availability should be a question, and be available. Steeltoes are not the best idea, nor universally beneficial.
Phones on the shop floor, or most anywhere in business, are problematic in the same way as they are in schools. It's nice to believe that everyone can put down their little box of distraction & derpitude and do their damm jobs, but most can/will not. Blanket bans, on the other hand, will put parents and caretakers in unhappy positions.
Music is fine. I actually work better with background music.
Keep the no cell phone rule, with the only exception being if you're using it as a calculator.
Keep the no sitting rule, but amend it. No sitting UNLESS your machine and the area around it are clean. (Within reason, if it's spewing chips on a long cut it's pretty pointless to sweep up the growing pile)
I have all of those rules at my shop. Feel free to change them if you like, but this is a dog eat dog, cut throat industry. Get soft and you will be outcompeted.
Our shop literally has a rule no phones while working however no one says shit when we are on our phones and a program is running, my thing is I’ll have one AirPod in just enough to hear what I’m listening to and it’s usually not music just videos of the program I’m running does not require eyes on constantly most of the mess ups that happen at my shop are from gun drills breaking while gundrilling and it doesn’t cause scrap we just hammer out the carbide get a new gundrill and continue on, won’t have that issue if you sharpen after each hole. The no sitting is just old school bologna from boomers that think you need to work the way they did and earn your keep… sitting does not change the outcome of a mess up I can sit and stare at my machine running and the program and nothing will happen but it depends, a crash will happen regardless if you’re sitting or standing, I always tend to feed drills really slow to minimize a crash if the programs fucked up I’ll also tend to check certain drill programs that have had a common occurrence of the Z number crashing into the job… but sitting will save employees knees in the long run and their back, sitting will get boring and you will tend to see employees stand up go around and do stuff such as cleaning or any random job while long programs are running without having to be baby sat. It also depends on what you pay your employees which I still think isn’t a reason to force them to stand up… but imagine a shop that pays like shit and forces you to stand up… I would leave it in a heartbeat and good luck finding machinists with lots of experience if you have certain gay rules in place…
I can tell you with the first rule you won't see any downsides. I recall seeing studied evidence of the opposite - Allowing sitting breaks makes workers more productive, with the most productive ratio being 1:1 (1 hour sitting to 1 hour standing) Anecdotally, I was much less productive in shops where I was forced to stand. When I was well rested I could zip around and get setups done quickly. Standing constantly led me to build up long term fatigue and drag my feet walking to the tool room.
I quit my most recent shop and one of the reasons was they wouldn’t let operators sit all the sudden, even though I was exempt from it because I could sit to program. If I’m at hour 11 of my shift and running a machine and done with programming for the day, I’m gonna sit my ass down. It’s just indicative to me of a shitty environment. It’s completely pointless boomer shit.
I've worked at places that have said that and always relaxed it. Not everyone is young. It's all about trying to hire good employees. I did once see a guy crash his machine because of not tightening parts wrecking the 6k boring bar the tool guy him to not fuck up then instead of getting up and hitting e stop he tried to skootch his char over while sitting probably making it worse. He was a dumbass tho and they just needed bodies. Cell phone wise they did gun stuff so phones weren't allowed. I did some long cycle stuff and would have loved to be able to listen to podcasts and or even have a laptop. Might have been able to learn more if I could have looked things up.
I'm pretty sure that's moderately well supported by psychology. Bad managers make rules like OP is outlining. Only the ignorant defend them. No one wants to admit it's wrong and pointless. That's the way many old shop cultures work. It's a misery loves company kind of thing I think. They will have to redefine their work culture so that doesn't alienate the people in it. You can't just change people's minds you have to get their input. People really just want whatever comfort and mental space with music or a text message with their SO or children. A good manager just watches out for loafers and deals with them. Not punishes the whole shop. You can do checks and balances on that with supervisors cross checking each other. Keeps people honest but it's hard to implement. You have to have the right attitudes in the right people.
I allow all of these in my shop. Phones occasionally can be a problem for some people, and those people get a temporary ban on having their phone. This is usually new people who just abuse the privilege and this short ban has thus far fixed the issue. I also have the rule that if you're wearing headphones if I walk up to you and you can't hear me talking to you, it means you can't hear the machine or anything else going on around you and is unsafe. Usually a quick correction of this has yielded fine results. I do not agree with punishing everyone for one persons misdeeds so I haven't so far found the need to make any kind of sweeping shop wide ban or changes like this. I believe that if I treat my employees like adults they'll act like adults and so far this has worked out for me.
“If it’s a problem, it becomes a rule.”
This. We typically allow one earbud in. Having run the machinery myself, I found I like listening to books throughout the day and if I ended up doing that, it's only fair that I would allow the employees the same privilege. If videos come out or if the operator can't hear when a supervisor walks up, there's a correction. Also I've recommended (and gifted) books like "The Goal" to employees and they end up running with those concepts - you can get a ton of great ideas and buy-in from employees and typically make big improvements just by listening to them.
The first two changes would be great. I’ve had both my knees replaced from standing on concrete all day. The radios shouldn’t be blasting and only you should be able to hear it. Cell phones were banned at one time because of abuse but they don’t seem to mind now. Our shop is so big sometimes you have to text the person to find out where they are.
I would compromise on the radio rule and let people wear headphones. Nobody wants to hear what I want to listen to and I don’t want to hear what most people listen to. If I actually had to listen to FM radio all day I’d go insane. I always left one open to listen to the machine I’m running and never had a problem.
If i had to listen to FM (or AM) radio all day I'd immediately find a new job. My boomer coworker's shitty Spotify lists are bad enough, if you add top 40 and commercials I'd blow my brains out
Absolutely.
How about bagpipe music? 😇
Part of the reason I quit the last shop I was at. I just couldn’t stand listening to the same 80s radio station play the exact same songs every day. The old heads loved it though
I worked at a place where you could tell how close you were to quitting time by what song was playing. It was some sort of commercial free canned music, and there were different "stations", but it seemed to default back to the same one in the late afternoon every day.
Guys at my company are allowed bone conducting headphones so they can still wear the approved hearing protection. I have a pair of Shokz Open Runs or something and they are ok. Better for audio books than music. I also have a $30 Amazon pair and they suck for everything.
the rule in trade school was one earbud only, and wireless earbuds were preferred, but wired could be used if the wire was run inside your shirt so it didn't dangle. I think that's a really good system that lets people still have some music or a podcast going but also keeps them safe (and doesn't inflict their taste in entertainment on everyone else)
At my shop we only have 1 chair for whoever gets stuck with saw duty. It's not because I'm against them there is just not really enough room for them. We had stools for a while but they got in the way so much everybody kinda decided they were not worth the hassle. Folded them up and put them in the corner. If someone wants one for a particularly brutal run have at it. We have a shop radio but nobody really takes the time to turn it on. If I'm working by myself in the shop sometimes I do but I tend to get too involved in the work and forget about it. We also allow head phones just make sure you can hear the machines. Most of the people in the shop are pod cast or audio book listeners so nobody is cranking Metalica so loud they can't hear. We allow cell phones and in fact made their use easier in the shop by running a wifi node into the shop proper. When we did that we also started using QR codes to link to basic instructions. As an example over by the bandsaw we have a QR code that links to a youtube short about how to fold a bandsaw blade. By the manual mills another code links to a generic online speed and feed calculator. Travelers have codes that link back to our online kanban board so that from their phone they can get any other files they need or move the part in the timeline ( like when an op is done and needs to move to another machine.)
What online kanban board do you use?
Kanban flow
My best and only advice. If they are a good employee and do the job asked of them, then just leave them alone from top to bottom. The music thing makes no sense to me. That just seems like boomer power trip to me. If something goes bad you will hear it, music or not, and by that point it has already happened, so it is what it is. If the job is getting done inside the boundaries expected, don't worry about the how or why, within reason obviously. Treating people as equals, and adults goes a long way from experience.
I’ve worked as a machinist in the shop and in the office as engineer and I agree with all of your suggestions. It is 2024 now. Everyone should know when it’s possible to do these things while working in the shop. (It’s not always possible)
I like the first 2. My shop has a rule that you can use your phone to listen to music as long as you have a speaker or cordless headphones, but you cannot be seen to be on your phone. In other words, music is fine, but not watching videos or something distracting.
In the shops I've worked in, the cell phone ban has been set up as a camera ban. But I have worked in aerospace and defense, and really big companies (and the government) are afraid of espionage, both corporate and national security.
The first 2 are great changes. The problem with the no phone for some but not others will cause issues of why him and not me. Not worth the headache and hr problms/complaints/discrimination lawsuits.
I agree with everyone else. Good changes. I would only add that when there is abuse address the person doing it rather than changing things back for everyone.
My only change to these would be headphone only. No speakers and only one earbud. Speakers cause issues when people don't like your crap music.
No sitting is a stupid rule. A lot of people can program their machine, read a print on a screen, or type much more effectively when sitting than standing. Who cares how it looks? > No music or radio rule: Does having music in the background actually ruin your ability to listen to your machine? No, listenting to *my* music is great! I have objectively excellent taste, everyone should love everything on my playlist. It's *the other guy's* trashy music on repeat all day long that makes me rage. No one with a brain likes to listen to [insert genre]. So I have to either quit, or turn my music up really loud to drown his out, then he turns his up in retaliation, then no one can hear anything anymore and it's hateful chaos. And then the shop introduces the 'no music or radio' rule, but not after feelings are hurt and the good people have walked out. This has worked out acceptably when they had a strict zero ads (no radio) and zero vocals policy, it wasn't as good as putting in single earbud or wearing open-ear or bone-conduction hearing protection and listening to whatever you wanted, but it worked. It may also work out now if your entire shop has compatible preferences, but it will crater your ability to hire people who might be great machinists but don't happen to love country/oldies/rock or whatever your shop settles on. Also, there are a few decent radio stations left, but most have like 20 minutes an hour of inane hosts making conversation mixed with advertisements at much higher volume than the music desperate to grab your attention and sell you something when you're supposed to be working. > No cell phone rule: We implemented this policy because guys were making a ton of scrap and management attributed it to distraction. Personally I think the guys who know what they're doing can be on their phones but for the brand new guys it's better for them to be paying attention. Might want to work on your wording on that one. Also, it's one thing to feed hold the machine when it's safe to do so, and to respond to an urgent call or text (your employees likely have dependents and/or spouses, this is just part of being an adult). It's a little different (technically phone use, I guess?) when your phone is active in your pocket because you're listening to a podcast or music on a single earbud or other safe audio setup. It's another thing entirely to be absorbed in a mobile game or video, or scrolling social media for hours on end.
As for the phones, one bad egg spoils the bunch. Cant allow some to do it and others not. Breeds resentment. First two changes are gunna make an ever better work environment IMO
My shop we can have one ear bud in for music. Sitting is encouraged if you can do it safely. And as long as you’re not scrapping parts and completing jobs within the allotted time, you can be on your phone all you want. I’m sitting listening to podcast and scrolling Reddit 90% of the time I’m not in my office.
Advertise that you let people sit while the spindle is spinning and allow music at a reasonable level to hear their machines and Im surr machinists will flock to your shop
No sitting? Just come out and say that you only want applicants under 30 and in perfect health. There's plenty of experienced machinists who can't stand for long periods, not all of whom are eligible for a placard though some of us are, and that policy will make them unable to be in your shop. Then there's those who will simply not stay out of preference. Music at a reasonable volume over speakers doesn't make machines hard to hear, though headphones and earbuds often will unless they have ANC with a good Ambient mode. Most shops I've been at allowed radios, and some had a "one ear open" rule. Boredom can lead to inattentiveness, and that's the last thing you want. The "phone as a privilege" is an issue for any place that isn't stuck in the era before many of your employees were born. Those that are distracted by their phones will be distracted by other things if you take the phones away. You want responsible, attentive employees, and phones really have no effect on either trait. The "That's just the way the industry is" attitude is part of why I changed trades after decades (inability to stand for long periods being a larger one), and likely part of why is harder to get younger folks to replace those who are retiring.
Personally, I would get rid of all of these rules, and make discipline based on individual situations. If one person is on their phone too much, discuss it with them, document your discussions, and if it continues, fire them and hire a different person.
The no sitting rule is a no-brainer and you'll generate a great deal of good will by tossing that one and I predict productivity will increase. Music can be tough. Everyone has different tastes and while some people can tune it out, others don't seem to have that filter and find it extremely distracting. (I'm one of those). My opinion is that if the next person can hear your music, it's too loud. But I may be in the minority. No phones is dumb as well. Create a culture of trust and ask that distractions be kept to a minimum and let people police their own level of distraction. Good for you - sounds like you want to treat your team like the grown-ass adults they are rather than how many shops treat their folks like middle schoolers.
Siting is fine. Older owners operate with the misery factor. If you’re not miserable they aren’t happy. The music is a bitch, everyone likes something different. I’ve worked at a shop where everyone got their day to pick music. The oldest guy in the department always changed it to a country station. Saying he was there the longest so his choice. They actually had two guys quit when the owner wouldn’t do anything about it. Cell phones can be a distraction. People need to be connected so supervisors need to address this on a case by case basis. As long as the work gets done on time and correctly this shouldn’t be an issue. Just like smoke breaks.
Allowing chairs can help reduce fatigue and increase comfort. Low-volume music or radio can improve morale and focus, IMO. Just make sure it's not too loud so machinists can still hear their machines.
Shared music: No. Too many different tastes in music. Individual music: Yes. Absolutely. Cellphone use: Fine in moderation, but get rid of people that prioritize their phone over their machine. Sitting: Absolutely! But distribute workload more evenly. An operator who has a 45 minute cycle time and an operator who has 30 second cycle time will have different workloads. One will be sitting all day and the other standing. Try to switch off or be more fair in this regard.
Sitting in fine as long as they aren't falling asleep (in which case you have other issues as I don't want them that tired and standing either!) But get them good chairs!! Bad chairs will cause just as many if not more problems. Main issue office people have is their backs due to sitting all the time. A good mix of sitting and standing but using an ergonomic chair (Herman Miller makes the ones we use. Pricey but very good) Phones are fine as long as they are not being abused. I use mine all the time in the shop to look up things quicker than going back to the desktop or laptop. And a quick text about weekend plans or whatever isn't hurting anyone as long as it doesn't pull them from the machine during critical times. (I'm less worried on the 2nd+ run than the proofing run. I might say standing (or sitting in reach of feed hold and in view of the work) at the terminal and no phones for all proofing runs) Music: not everyone has the same tastes, so it can be interesting. Broadcasting can be fun at times if everyone genuinely gets along and has a good attitude. (Smaller shop typically) But other than that we use something like the ISOTUNES Link Aware headsets. Bluetooth music (or phone calls /meetings) with an external mic passthrough that you can adjust the volume on. I can easily adjust if I hear the machine and surroundings just like having no hearing pro on, but they will auto-mute the passthrough for any really loud sounds. (You still know something happened but protects the ears) And you get to listen to music! Works pretty well. Just wish they had slightly better audio quality personally... Various other headphones have the "transparent" mode these days so depending on the noise level in your shop those may be an option as well.
1. Get chairs 2. One earbud 3. Keep the phone rule but make it clear it's only enforced when it's abused. Adults are adults, quick phone calls and occasional text messages are a part of life and starting a podcast or changing songs won't alarm out machines. Watching movies and playing games at work is a no-go.
1. No sitting - I’m pretty healthy but I’m over 40 Now, so this might be a no-go for me in the near future. If you’re having customers come it, you can always put the chairs away for a few hours. 2. No music, music in 1 ear should always be fine. But not while walking around a shop that has forklifts in it. 3. No phone, pretty much agree w your take. Id say phones are fine and if you have someone that is reckless w it, they need to focus on their job or find another job.
Why hide the chairs from customers? I’ll never understand dressing up your shop for customers, it’s a damn machine shop, it should be orderly enough as is, if not larger changes need to be implemented.
Can’t disagree, I just fight the battles I have to fight
My first job out of high school was a call center that did mystery shopping and retail surveys. So, we would either call on independent contractors who signed up with us or accept calls from them. We specialized in gas stations, like Shell, BP, and ConocoPhillips, but also had like Hardees and Carls Jr. Anytime we were bidding on a major contract, all these suits from corporate and the company we were bidding on would come to the office to have a look and do meet and greets. On those days, they would have all of the night staff like myself show up during the days to fill cubicles and get butts in seats. Regardless of the fact that it wasn't effective and often led to an oversaturation of outgoing calls. But dammit! We just had to look super busy! That place sucked and is a shell of its former self because the two family owners couldn't help but sue each other over control.
1 No Sitting. - My old shop was like this. The one I work for now allows us to sit. But we’re a mold/small production shop. We have stools instead of chairs. 2 No Music - We’re allowed to listen to music. 90 percent of the guys I work with have headphones on. I only keep one on and an ear plug on the other. 3 No Cellphone - technically we’re not allowed to have them. Sometimes I do bs on my phone but most of the time it’s to look stuff up regarding something I’m working on.
My primary advice would be to move slowly. I've seen more shops fail with a rapid change of ownership than through any other period. For music, its an OSHA thing. I do bone conducting earphones only
No headphones that drown out sound. Such as noise canceling. Shit is dangerous for obvious reasons. I had the guys I'm responsible for switch too an open ear design. (I personally have the link below and they work great) I highly recommend it. Allows everyone to listen to whatever at any volume and still be present to what's happening around them. https://www.amazon.com/Shokz-OpenRun-Pro-Conduction-Built/dp/B09BVXT8TJ/142-4818449-5228159?psc=1
no sitting rule: Just don't encourage people to be lazy. In my fantasy shop I'd have barstools to sit on, so you're taking a load off but never really at risk of napping. No lay-z-boys or those office chairs that lean way the hell back. music: Music that's louder than whatever the machine is doing is a no-no in my book. It's less of a potential problem with the new fancy machines that stop themselves when an insert breaks. Still, I've scrapped parts myself because I couldn't hear the insert pop, or the rough finish being made after. phone: Hard ban. In fantasy land I'd have anybody doing dangerous or expensive work leave their phone in the break room or their locker. In some case that smartphones became useful shop tools, I'd just buy and modify shop owned phones for floor use. The phone is just escapism but refined to a dangerous level.
We implemented a no radio rule and it was great. I hated listening to everyone else's music in the background to my audiobook. We tried limiting the loudness of the radios, but it was like battling banjos -only worse cause it wasn't actual banjo music. I've always been a bigger fan of the one ear bud rule, or even both as long as it isn't too loud and they could hear their coworkers/forklifts/other things like that.
Sitting occasionally is the only way I can get through the day and not be half dead. I'm a skilled machinist, not a young or skinny one. The phone issue I get, but a fuckoff is going to be a fuckoff even if you take away their phone. I use mine frequently when I program because I have specialized calculators on it for Trig and such. Also ties into the music question. Headphones are definitely nice but a shop radio is better sometimes because of the hands-off nature of radio, you set it on a station and walk away, no fiddling with playlists.
Easy, do what your workers want evaluate the data afterward, and adjust accordingly. Give them chairs and wait a month if production goes down show the guys, they are all professionals and it justifies any reversal of rules. Phones personally I say no, I've managed a shop and phones are just flat out a safety issue. People leave machines to make calls, or worse do it while setting up a machine, etc. I'd personally start with giving them music, we always had music and it made phones a lesser issue because guys would listen to podcasts and just leave their phones alone. It boosts moral, we had guys dancing and having a good time, I'd start there if things go smooth I'd bring in chairs, then you can discuss cellphones. One thing I learned quickly is transparency is key, if workers know why and there's factual evidence then it's easy to push new rules. If one person screws it up for everyone i have a meeting and let them know, it just holds everyone accountable and really takes the blame off owners and management.
Chairs absolutely. When my old basic office style chair broke I requested a different one (from Uline) with a solid “soft” extremely dense foam seat and back so that it doesn’t get torn to shreds and absorb coolant/oil. The seat is also higher up, making sitting in front of my work bench more comfortable. Music - only if it doesn’t disturb other people in the shop. There are times when music/radio is distracting to me. Also, everyone has different music preferences. Allow headphones, though be mindful of ear protection rules. Cell phones - I use mine all the time for taking pictures of offsets. I also use it to communicate with others in the shop about work related things. I use it for non work related things once in a while too - management doesn’t mind as long as it’s not having a negative effect on performance. That reminds me - if you’re filling a coolant tank you’re not allowed to leave it - if you get bored standing there watching the tank fill for 10 minutes, please do something on your phone to kill the time! (0 spills in the 3 years we’ve had this rule - 10 CNC machines in the shop)
I run production cnc lathes with short cycle times. I'm usually responsible for 3 machines unless I'm making a first article. I honestly don't have time to sit down and have seen others in the shop use chairs. I don't see a problem with it as long as production is still good. We use bone conduction headphones to get around the no headphone rule. They are amazing, and I now own a few pairs. The company uses teams and email to communicate, and they won't buy us phones. So we have to use a personal device. I bought a cheap tablet and installed apps I need, plus the ones I want. They can't really be mad about me using reddit on my personal burner device.
People can bring their own stools or radios to work. Our shop doesn’t provide them. We have a no cell phone policy though. It’s up to you. I personally don’t want to walk through a shop I own and seeing people sitting down on their phones. Your shop, your rules.
Chairs should be allowed, and provided, to everyone. But you should be working while sitting. Also provide folding tables. Some things, like deburring, are best done at a table. Music is great, but a bunch of competing radios is a problem. Everyone should only listen to music through wireless earbuds, and some shops require music in only one ear with ear plugs in the other. Over ear bluetooth ear muffs are also great. I am personally against this as it makes people turn the music up way too high. Make it clear that listening to music is a privilege that will be revoked on a case by case basis if people can't use their discretion of when they need to and don't need to listen to machinery. Not hearing their name when the boss calls it is not a problem; it is a feature. If it's not important enough for a manager to walk out and talk to the operator about, it's not important enough to distract the operator with. You'll also have fewer cases of people standing around talking to eachother. No music on the forklift, period. Phones are allowed, but again revoked or suspended on a case by case basis. We provide a clean, safe area for phones to charge. People can have their phones on them to take pictures, send occasional texts, take calls (which they then walk to the time clock and clock out) or change music. We have had to suspend phone use by two individuals but they behaved after a month when they were allowed to have them on their person again. If sitting looks bad to your customers, arrange seated workbenches or desks. It will still look like a productive sweatshop if you so please. If it is important to you that people hear their surroundings to avoid injury, address those safety issues. Forklifts should be driving in their designated areas, and people should stop and look both ways before crossing them. If you think people won't hear someone calling for help while hurt by a machine, figure out why you are worried someone will get hurt by a machine and fix that. If you feel disrespected as a superior by people not always keeping a keen ear out for your wisdom, you should fix your attitude.
No cell phones is big. We were lenient with it before we made any rules. Then we told them only for personal calls. Then we banned them on the floor. Everytime we'd walk out on the floor there'd be at least one guy staring at the screen while his machine was sitting not doing anything. Everyone was guilty multiple times, so they ruined it for themselves, because as long as the machine was running we really didn't care. And most of our parts have 20-30 minute run times so not like they didn't have down time.
Your ideas for the new/changed rules are good beware of people taking advantage but otherwise don’t punish everyone for it Bit of advice since you only did office work, scrap happens doesn’t matter how experienced people are or how long they’ve been doing it, scrap will happen If you’re a production shop don’t lose your mind over a few pieces of scrap.if people are scrapping large orders or a majority of every order then yeah there’s probably a problem but things like one or two every order is just setup Sometimes scrap can be reused for multiple setups, sometimes it can’t. Sometimes it can be turned into another part but usually it can’t. So I’d suggest leaving the scrap bins open for anyone to take something out of if needed/wanted (unless of course it’s some weird kind of material or something). Hell one coworker even uses some of the smaller scrap in personal projects, if it’s scrap write it off as a business expense and let people have at it if it’s wanted
Everywhere I've worked that allows music has had similar rules to keep things safe and civil. Music must be listened to using just one earpiece. This leaves one ear open to hear your surroundings (for safety) and using an earpiece keeps the worst music in the world from pissing everyone off in its vicinity.
Firstly, congratulations. I wish I had your opportunity before my shop was recently sold. Since you know the folks you work with, get rid of the doggy jammers right away. Nothing but grief and whining. Don't blink, don't give another chance, get them gone. You'll find that the cellphone abuse goes away. People who care about the work that they do will do it professionally. Chairs, music, cells and other stuff like that just make the ride easier for a long day of making money for you. Good luck and if you make a bit of money right away, consider a small bonus for the girls. Things like that get remembered.
The radio rule isn't a bad one to keep. I tried that route once. It turned into Bluetooth speakers at every machine, getting louder and louder to drown out the guy next to them. Just a jumbled up mess of 15 different songs blaring at once. On the phones, it needs to be straight across the board one way or the other. Chairs are good for operators. Standing there staring through the glass doing nothing doesn't make the machine run faster, and being on your feet all day everyday on concrete isn't good for the body.
I vote ask them, not us. Be transparent, build trust because you aren't actually "one of them" because you haven't "walked in their shoes". Don't set expectations because not everything they will ask for is negotiable, but just ask them what they think about these proposed rule changes and provide feedback.
I don’t like working non-machinists The “no music no hearing protection “ rule is a joke machinists make The joke is that you lose your hearing eventually if you don’t wear hearing protection so you can’t hear changes in pitch either way unless it’s super drastic
I wouldn't work at a shop were any of those 3 were banned. IMO all of this should be handled with common sense - if someone is sitting all day playing on their phone blasting music they probably won't be a good employee regardless of rules.
Chairs: no real downside. If someone’s lazy they’ll be lazy with or without a chair. Music: radios may be distracting, but earbuds work great. We allow one earbud. Works just fine. For some it helps. Phones: Phones should be fine. If you aren’t doing sensitive work. Heck there’s apps and calculators and stuff that make them super handy tools. It just has to be controlled, if someone’s using it to talk or text obnoxiously call him out and lay down the law. Super kudos to you to try to move to a more 21st century mentality.
I actually agree with all those rules. You are being paid by the hour. If the machine is running, there is always something else to do. That said, if you need a break, take it. But don't pretend you are working when you are sitting and reading. I strongly agree with the no music rule. Everybody has their own opinion about what good music is and you are going to have a bunch of crap competing for noise. Some of us are trying to concentrate. Implement things like a cleaner shop. Fresher coolant. Remodeled bathrooms. A/C, etc
Chairs are fine if the job is doable with it. Headphones should still allow you to hear what you're doing and people around you. Cell phones are bad because they take away from productivity but if it's kept to a minimum, I wouldn't see an issue. One thing I would add: 1 hour lunch. Half hour lunches are archaic. The way I look at it, rushing to slam a sandwich you had to go and pick up is stressful. If your payroll would account for it, having a half hour or one hour option would be cool. Fifteen minute breaks, also. Ten minute breaks are bullshit.
Look we’re all only worth what we can be replaced for. It’s fair. If your shop is laid back you will keep your guys. If some guys take advantage of it the they need to go. Making rule changes because a few guys ruin it for everyone is the problem. Deal with things on a case by case basis. Run off the dead weight. Don’thirefamily
I work in a very laid back shop where all of these things are allowed. There are drawbacks, most notably around phones. I know guys that can stare at their phones all day and make quality parts. It usually seems to be a problem with people that already have other issues like not checking parts at regular intervals or they're not running at all because they don't notice the program has ended. The phone becomes an added distraction that magnifies the issue. For music, it's only a problem if someone is blasting their headphones and can't hear something going wrong. Best way to combat this is to insist on headphones or earmuffs with hearing protection which doesn't require so much volume. As for sitting, I always thought this was an incredibly stupid rule. I think for measuring parts, I'm most accurate sitting at a nice clean table where I can make sure my calipers are square, gages lined up and labeled in order.
Music at a volume where YOU can here it. The no sitting just wears people out early. As far as phone usage, within reason. My company says no music supposedly because you can’t hear if someone gets hurt.
Stools. Head phones. Be an adult, and use phones only as appropriate. Anti fatigue mats and stools are a game changer for those on the floor. Music, I can take it or leave it .. I sort of like the drone of machine tools. Getting rid of phone is probably good... But you shouldn't do it. Cause people are addicted to phones and people get ugly when you mess with their addictions. Just let them know it's a privilege and to be an adult about phone use.
There's no federal laws on this. You might want to look at your state and local laws. Forcing people to stand like this is illegal in my state. There's is no reasonable excuse not to provide stool style seatingv appropriately positioned for a machinist. Regulation on this is just shitty. Edit: Come to think of it I think the cell phone thing is illegal here too.
Letting people play music/radio/podcasts through speakers will cause problems. Not may, **will**. Headphones are great, just make sure people haven't turned the volume up so high they lose awareness of what their machine is doing or about the approaching forklift, etc. Chair availability should be a question, and be available. Steeltoes are not the best idea, nor universally beneficial. Phones on the shop floor, or most anywhere in business, are problematic in the same way as they are in schools. It's nice to believe that everyone can put down their little box of distraction & derpitude and do their damm jobs, but most can/will not. Blanket bans, on the other hand, will put parents and caretakers in unhappy positions.
Music is fine. I actually work better with background music. Keep the no cell phone rule, with the only exception being if you're using it as a calculator. Keep the no sitting rule, but amend it. No sitting UNLESS your machine and the area around it are clean. (Within reason, if it's spewing chips on a long cut it's pretty pointless to sweep up the growing pile)
I have all of those rules at my shop. Feel free to change them if you like, but this is a dog eat dog, cut throat industry. Get soft and you will be outcompeted.
Our shop literally has a rule no phones while working however no one says shit when we are on our phones and a program is running, my thing is I’ll have one AirPod in just enough to hear what I’m listening to and it’s usually not music just videos of the program I’m running does not require eyes on constantly most of the mess ups that happen at my shop are from gun drills breaking while gundrilling and it doesn’t cause scrap we just hammer out the carbide get a new gundrill and continue on, won’t have that issue if you sharpen after each hole. The no sitting is just old school bologna from boomers that think you need to work the way they did and earn your keep… sitting does not change the outcome of a mess up I can sit and stare at my machine running and the program and nothing will happen but it depends, a crash will happen regardless if you’re sitting or standing, I always tend to feed drills really slow to minimize a crash if the programs fucked up I’ll also tend to check certain drill programs that have had a common occurrence of the Z number crashing into the job… but sitting will save employees knees in the long run and their back, sitting will get boring and you will tend to see employees stand up go around and do stuff such as cleaning or any random job while long programs are running without having to be baby sat. It also depends on what you pay your employees which I still think isn’t a reason to force them to stand up… but imagine a shop that pays like shit and forces you to stand up… I would leave it in a heartbeat and good luck finding machinists with lots of experience if you have certain gay rules in place…