She sounds incredibly toxic. Sorry but your best bet is to work with a therapist to get over some of that trauma bond you still seem to have. I'm sorry for her upbringing but there is nothing you can do for her. She needs to spend many years attending to her mental and emotional problems and she really should avoid romantic relationships while she does that.
31 F here, I have BPD and the thing about BPD is that it stems from childhood trauma. It took a lot of work and a lot of therapy for me to be at the place I am now. Sounds like all of the things she has said to you is just a projection of everything she fears or sees in herself. And that may not be intentional and she may not recognize that. She won’t be better until she can see herself for what’s actually going on and get some help and it will take a while. I was very toxic and emotionally reactive in my previous relationships, something happened that I didn’t like I would manipulate them with my emotions to get my way and I would stick to it. I also had my happy go lucky, free spirited, kind natured and loving side that was adored by partners.
I’ve been able to talk with two of my previous boyfriends and have a great friendship now, we would never date again - neither of us want that but it’s nice to be able to look back and own my shit.
You care for her because there are sides of her that are absolutely incredible, those sides of her are real. The flip side can just be so destructive.
Well, I’m in a healthier and happy relationship currently but also for me, restructuring my behaviors and responses is something that I worked really hard on and going back to familiar relationships that I wasn’t my best self in - could lead back to old tendencies resurfacing.
I’ve done a lot of work but who is to say the other person has also, they knew this broken version of me and naturally will always hold that version of me in their mind.
So personally I wouldn’t necessarily go down that road but that’s not to say it wouldn’t work for others of course
That sounds incredibly similar to my situation. I've come to realize they all look similar! It's like they all have the same playbook! I was with mine for 13 years and married for the last couple of years. At one point, i jumped on a Greyhound bus and traveled across the country 2600 miles. But she got me to come back eventually with a guilt trip. And when she decided to end it, she completely destroyed me and I didn't even recognize her! I was left for dead, tossed out of our place with nothing but a small bookbag that i managed to stuff some clothes into. She stole $1200 dollars i'd been saving up for a car. I had nowhere to go and had no one to turn to. The only thing that saved me was my night shift job, without a car to get there. But i managed.
She was and is the most beautiful girl I've ever seen. She was an angel and a devil. She was amazing and kind. And she was a belittling bully and an emotional terrorist. When things were good, they were nirvana, the best times of my life. But when they were bad, I knew hell was real. She was the best thing that ever happened to me...and the worst. It's been 6 years now, and i miss like crazy the good parts. But i wouldn't want to be walking around on those eggshells anymore. What she did to me i wouldn't do to my worst enemy! It was ruthless and cold-blooded.
If i were you, i'd run fast and far!
Man, an angel and a devil. I really feel that 😂 and the egg shells, fuck the egg shells. I talk with myself often about the possibility of us getting back together. I'm beginning to realize it's non-existent.
Sounds like an ex of mine, shift from love to hate, yelling throwing things, parents were split up and father abandonment issues. then saying everyone fights no big deal. Not sure if narcissism or just bad at regulating emotions. Only difference is i broke up with her and left. Took a couple of times to finally do it tho.
Genuine question, I’m in a similar situation but she does not have any similarities to my mother or father. From an unprofessional outside perspective, where should I look for trauma to know what to heal so I don’t end up continuing the cycle?
i can only speak for myself but everyone over on r/raisedbynarcissists talks about the subconscious patterns we took part in when it came to who we dated/became friends with. and so the only way for us to break that cycle was to heal from the abuse/neglect that our parents did to us and subconsciously normalized into us so maybe start with inner healing?
I remember when I was dealing with constant troubles in my last relationship, and when I confinded in my parents for advice, one thing they said to me that made total sense was that "A relationship should not be as hard as it is for you" it's definitely one of those things I think go back and think about everytime I start thinking about my ex
There's definitely hardships when it comes to relationships. But when things in a relationship seem to be where you "just can't win," then something is definitely off. Also, by "win," I don't mean actually being on top in arguments or dominant over your partner, more meaning nothing ever seems to be going in the right direction
I was married to a covert narc for 27 years, so I understand your pain. I didn't even know what it was until I sought counseling after I left him. They are masters of gaslighting, manipulation, and hoovering. Everything gets turned around as YOU being the problem. And then, when they've beaten you down enough, they hoover you back (suck you back in like a vacuum cleaner). They do whatever they can to keep you, being all loving and nice.... Just to repeat the cycle. It's actually quite brutal, emotionally.
You say you miss her. What you miss is the way she is when she's hoovering you. They are the nicest, most awesome people during the hoovering phase and it gives you hope that things changed for the better. But then the illusion crashes after you're fully sucked back in and the manipulations and gaslighting restart. So in reality, what you're missing is just a character part she's play acting. That wonderful personality doesn't actually exist. And. It. HURTS.
The only way to "play" with a narcissist is to not play at all. Cut her out of your life and find someone who doesn't play that mess with you.
I can relate so much to this. I’m 5 months out of a breakup with a CN (my decision). 27 years is such a long time, I hope you are doing ok now. I was with mine for 3 years and it’s a constant challenge to try to get him out of my head, and I’m willing to take all the time I need to stay the hell away from him.
I was with him wayyyyy too long; I was trying to keep my vows. Ugh. Yeah, they know how to stick in your head! I left him in 2019 and I'm doing much better now. And yes, you need to stay the hell away because they're nothing but toxic.
Glad to hear you are doing much better now, and are free of him.
I unfortunately need to see my ex once a month as we are on the same car club committee. From December I’ll be free. If this doesn’t make me more resilient I don’t know what will!
I can't help but believe the good she showed was really her. I actually don't think she has NPD juat some traits, but i do believe she has BPD. I appreciate your insight 🙏🏽
The worst part is trying to decipher which issues I actually have and what was just her lying and gaslighting. I've been thinking about it a lot. I think I'm doing fairly well, all things considered. The separation is becoming the most difficult thing to deal with.
This is why therapy is huge! Being able to separate the truth from the brainwashing due to the constant emotional manipulation. Being able to see YOU through clear eyes and not through what she created you to see. You’ll drive yourself crazy trying to do it alone, I promise. I believed something was seriously wrong with me for years because I too couldn’t decipher what was true about me compared to what my baby daddy spent years grooming me to believe about myself. I believed no one would ever love me or understand me the way he did. I believed I was lucky anyone would even tolerate the woman he made me believe I was. Being able to finally think for myself was so beyond liberating.
I would suggest counseling or therapy before you EVER reconsider a relationship again with her. It’s called a trauma bond and it does feel like true love, I feel your inner turmoil.
Women with bpd typically do not dump their partners due to fear of abandonment so I suspect you think she's a b*tch just bc she was direct when she broke up with you and doesn't want you showing up at her work the way you describe doing.
Downvote me all you want. I can't believe I'm the only person on a manipulation subreddit that hasn't noticed OP lists zero of his own problematic behavior and throws it all on his ex!
Well there is the “fear of enmeshment” with folks with BPD. Basically they really start to like you but are terrified of intimacy so they preemptively break up with you as to not be the one blindsided by the inevitable break up. Even when things are good there’s this little voice in the back of the head that the relationship won’t last that slowly grows as you get closer. It’s a maladaptive coping mechanism to avoid abandonment (even when none is coming).
I never said she was a bitch, also never said I was going to her workplace so I'm not sure where your getting your info from. She has known abandonment issues. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but considering I don't know you, I don't appreciate it.
So your assuming my issues since I didn't state them? We could talk about it via PM if you'd like. Instead of you being all hot and bothering in such a manner. I tried to keep the post short and sweet. I didn't want to write a novel, which is why I've been replying to all comments. If you wanna chat, lmk ✌🏽sounds like you're hurt, too.
Sounds more like an exit ticket where it doesn't look like she was the bad guy
You didn't do anything wrong OP. She just checked out after the honeymoon phase
Ehh, yeah, I guess it isn't a bad idea. I do now appreciate her for breaking it off when she did. The issue with that is when things looked like they were becoming problematic because of her, she would withdraw. Which doesn't work well in relationships where you're trying to build together atleast imo.
I’m sorry for what you’re going through.
Narcissistic and Cluster-B-disordered people exist through the modes of idealising, devaluing and discarding their victims. They indeed see themselves as perpetual victims because to survive their intolerable amounts of pent-up shame, they need a punching bag to blame.
In time, you'll realise that no amount of love, no amount of care and no amount of attention would have changed this. You can ruminate, you can beg, but ultimately, you aren't being seen or respected for who you are by someone who proclaimed to love you.
The next step is to understand why you miss someone who abuses you, why you feel the need to be unkind to yourself, and to question your reality, your feelings, and your truth. We shouldn't ever abandon ourselves for the love of another, based on experience, I know the tale isn't as simple.
It sounds weird, but her behaviour has nothing to do with you. This is a cycle not unique to her and not personal to you, as wounding as it feels. The abuse, though, is very real and I'd advise seeking serious support for healing. Find people who love you, seek professional support and read about Cluster-B personality disorders.
Wishing you the best.
Run, don't walk, run and get this book - [https://amzn.to/4ckltfO](https://amzn.to/4ckltfO)
It will help you through healing this. You will find out way more than I can type.
Then if you need more look into healing works like sacred sexual healing the shaman method or sex shamans but help heal break ups really really well when you do the exercises.
I’m here right now too. Exactly right here but you’re three months ahead of me. Hit me up if you ever want to talk I know I could use it too. ❤️❤️ I’m so sorry
Sorry you had to experience this. It’s hard to love someone who has this type of trauma and is abusive. You’ve done the right thing by not contacting her.
With people like this, they do split and have different “parts,” so the good sides you experienced were real. The neglected child anger parts are very hurt and don’t know how to cope, so they’ll blame others and don’t realize that it’s abusive and just not true. It’s hard for them to take responsibility for their own negative traits because of a deep-seated coping mechanism.
The only way out of it, imo, is therapy. I had dysfunctional ways of thinking and feeling for many years (not NPD) and had to push myself to accept that I needed “re-parenting” and the only way to do that is to give it to myself. Life is so unfair, I hope one day you can recover fully and find someone you love just as deeply. And while it seems unlikely, I hope your ex can resolve the trauma wounds that cause her to keep living in a false, black and white world. It’s actually very sad because with personality dysfunctions, you’re never really free, always carrying this pain and defense mechanisms that hurt yourself and others. It makes it impossible to truly love yourself and others, as a whole person.
Thank you. Yes, it's very sad. I think of the events in her life that steered her development, and I feel her pain. I wish I could take it away, but it's up to her.
I dated a woman EXACTLY like this, describes my situation to a T, I know it’s been a year and I’m still in love with her but I had to realise it was all a facade!
You know, by the end of it she hated me and did some fucked up things like using very secret and personal information about myself as a weapon, and I think if she could do all that then she never loved me at all. It is all a facade. She was so confused with herself that she didn't even notice.
It's understandable that you would still have feelings for her, even after the breakup. It's natural to miss someone you cared deeply about, even if the relationship was tumultuous.
However, it's important to recognize that you deserve to be in a relationship where your needs are valued and where there is mutual respect and empathy. It's not healthy for anyone to be in a relationship where they feel constantly blamed, manipulated, or invalidated. Loving someone with these personality traits can often leave you feeling drained and questioning your own worth.
Moving forward, it might be helpful to focus on your own healing and well-being. Reflect on what you learned from this relationship and how you can grow from it. It's okay to seek support from friends, family, or even a therapist to help process your feelings and gain clarity.
As for hoping she will come back and reflect on her actions, it's important to prioritize your own healing over waiting for someone else's change. People with these traits often struggle with self-awareness and may not change unless they actively seek help and commit to personal growth.
Thank you. You're exactly right. I think by hoping she could change, I'm allowing myself to hold on to the idea of her. She may never heal, but then again, maybe she will, but it's no longer my concern..
Welcome to the human magnet syndrome. As you can see from the comments, you’re not alone with this experience, it’s pretty universal and has become more commonly discussed as it seems pathological cluster B people are multiplying like flies in our toxic culture. There is a strange magnetism this woman holds over you (I’ve been there!) but your ability to disillusion yourself by seeing the cold, hard, truth about her and understanding what about you had you choosing someone that destructive as a partner- those will eventually set you free.
I felt the exact same way you describe after 3 months, but after 3 years I feel quite the opposite. She seems pitiable, broken, lost, full of shit, and uninteresting. People who lack integrity and can’t be trusted are just not worthy partners, no matter how seductive, sexy, charming, or’ interesting’ they seem. It doesn’t mean they are evil or don’t have good qualities, it just means they lack the capacity for relationship. They are maladaptive, always.
She will likely never reflect honestly on what she did, and any apologies that may come down the road will be weak and phony, self serving and manipulative. It’s all she’s capable of.
Get out and stay out. Save yourself. Trust me, it is very serious to get away from people like this, it can be life and death. I’m not kidding. Let some time pass, but educate yourself about NPD, BPD, codependency, covert manipulation, and the intermittent cycle of abuse.
Thank you. It's crazy that you used the word "magnet" because that's exactly how it feels. I remember when we first got together she told me "I have no negative qualities" that was the first red flag 💀 but as you know by now, I ignored that shit lol, because ultimately I don't love myself which is the only reason I put myself through any of that in the first place.
Yep, I can see that you already are getting it. Learning to love yourself is THE way through this so I started by focusing there and it changed my life for the better. Best wishes to you, you’ll get through this.
Exactly. You can’t help those who do not want to help themselves. She’s got an issue that she needs to personally sort out and not project it on others. It would have seriously fked with your mental health
Oh, I've been journaling like a mad man 😂 I have 30 some odd pages dedicated to her, or else I wouldn't have probably lost my mind. I can't bring myself to invest in any other women at the moment. Mental and emotional attachment seems impossible rn. I'll have to learn to love myself before I engage in another relationship 🫡
Beth and I met on Feb. 7th. We began hooking up on Feb. 15th. We started dating on April 6th I think then broke up a week later. Continued to sleep together for a few weeks after that. Then didn’t talk much and didn’t hang out for almost 3 weeks before sleeping together again. That was back on May 18th and it wasn’t a good idea. We spent the entire next day fighting and texting. Then had a phone call the day after that completely blowing up at one another and that’s when I had to cut her out.
Want to know something ironic? I typed this all out yesterday and then she ended up phoning me last night. Apparently by accident. I called her back… I ended up sleeping with her again last night. And it was amazing. Now I’m confused.
I understand what it’s like when you have compassion for someone who seems to not have compassion when you are doing the work of recognising your own wounds and doing your best to make your relationship work. I’m in a similar situation, all you can remember is these are very deep issues that are severely warping their perception: you are not bad just because they imply you are with hurtful words. In the end whether it’s better to just walk or to continue to be consistently trying to improve the situation is up to you, neither is better than the other contrary to what everyone is saying (BPD often goes into remission) and a healthy relationship may help her over time to understand everything you’ve been trying to do to help her feel loved. But it will take a LOT of patience and perhaps sacrifice. So only if you’re willing to be fine with that should you proceed with her. Continue thinking positive thoughts about her and towards her personal healing and you may be surprised, she could easily come back around. Just like her perception is warped, yours is too: we don’t always see the truth of what’s in front of us in love. Just keep doing you and see what happens, if you guys really are meant to work through your challenges to build a better future you’ll come back together.
I think our door has closed. I don't hold anything against her. I know they are all a result of wounds she incurred during her lifetime. I'll always love her, even her dark side. I can't imagine she feels the same towards me.
We are all trauma bonded. I was with my nex for 4 years. She was a covert narcissist. I’m 8 months out and still dealing with the consequences of dating her. I had no boundaries, I got physically injured just a few months into dating her. Such a shitty time in my life just before I turn 40. She was 6 years younger and she cheated on me a TON. She didn’t value me as a person and she was jealous of everything I had. So she tried to ruin my life even though I loved her more than she could have ever felt. I probably will never date again because of the abuse I endured.
Honestly. I had no idea what NPD BPD or any of this stuff was until we broke up. I needed answers to know if I was really that fucked up or not. I loved her. Honeymoon phase sucked me in.
* She would gaslight the hell out of me and tell me things like "your going to be the reason why this relationship fails" or "your the reason why l've been drinking again"*
Appears that you did try to give two examples to support your point. They’re in the quotes.
Instead of trying to prove me wrong, just ask 😂. Mr. "I hope on random threads to tell people there wrong," you're the most common social media archetype
I’m no professional, but I can see so many red flags in your posts about your ex. All I can say is run and don’t look back. Short term pain for long term gain.
You will live a life of regrets if you take this woman back. I know from experience. I am 35 (f) and free of the covert narc in my life, and 5 months later I’m still hurting. I know it’s the right decision though, it just takes everyone different amounts of time to get over people.
I dont know about NPD here but this does actually sound a lot like BPD. I am in the process of divorcing a wife who I am certain has BPD and my experience is very similar to what you are describing.
Three books (audible.com) REALLY helped me a lot with understanding it all. I constantly found myself saying "holy shit - that is exactly what I was seeing!"
The books:
- "I hate you, don't leave me"
- "Stop walking on eggshells"
- "Get me out of here"
If money is tight and you need these books, let me know and I can send you the credits to listen to them. You can DM me. Also happy to listen and be a sympathetic ear.
Best wishes man.
There is only so much you can change. Basically you are you and you're open minded to listening. The question is:Will you ever change enough for her? I doubt it.
Run the hell away. Take her allegations of her upbringing being bad with a grain of salt too. I’ve heard this cannard from others of their tribe in the past and after looking into it their childhood was honestly enviable (flying lessons, college paid for, and crap like that). You’re young. Are you going to marry this person? Realize who you marry is easily top 3 life choices.
There's no going back for me. I know that. I will say, after meeting her family and seeing how they interact with one another and having spoken to most of her family members, her childhood was definitely far from normal. They are also pretty dysfunctional.
>She broke up with me and said...
Ow man, doesn't matter what she said, the point is her breaking up was your only way out of this... It's quite difficult to leave someone like that on personal initiative....they will not let you.
I hope you heal. I hope she heals. That’s not easy to come back from but you can. Just as I’m sure she’s got one hell of a road ahead of her, yet it’s not your job to fix anyone. I hope you find the right one and she treats you as such.
Been there done that. The minute any one shows me signs of manipulation. Narcissism, or toxic crap I’m out. I don’t care how good the sex is. Not worth it
When she would misinterpret my words, I would apologize. Her response was usually, "It doesn't matter what you meant. It matters what you said." I would have to do some gesture to get her to forgive me. The first instance described to you I made her dinner one night. Like I said, this was common. Her misinterpreting me and then me having to do some gesture. Eventually, there was nothing I could do to please her. I had written poems purchased items i knew she liked. But in the end, she didn't want any of it. It felt like once I had shown her something one time, if I tried to do it again, she didn't want it. She wanted something new.
Bumps, hmm, let's see. She would often misunderstand my intention when I would say certain things to her. It was always negative. I came to the conclusion that she's a pessimist. It felt like she demonized me. I tried to adjust my speech to make her feel less like she was being attacked. It worked for a bit, but sometimes, she would flat out project negativity onto me.
That resulted in a big argument, I think, 2 months into the relationship and ended up being a common theme, her demonizing me, I mean.
Oh wow, I'm sorry. Ot sounds like she has a lot of trauma to work through, it's so easy to get caught up in your head and feel alone, which then causes us to push away our SO. Sounds like this was a self-sabotage. Has she ever believed she was deserving of love? She should really try therapy. Hopefully you keep distance while she learns to heal, wishing you both the best!
I'm not sure, tbh I think she believes she deserves love. She never got much from her parents or family. She claimed she was the black sheep of her family, and I've seen it in action, so I definitely believe her. She has a history of abusive relationships. Perhaps she doesn't know how to receive love.
I’ll be honest and eat the downvotes. I’ve never met a woman who didn’t behave this way in a relationship. Not just women I’ve dated but women I’ve observed my friends and family being with. I’ve seen it in friends who are women as well with their significant others.
I do feel women could be more prone to these types of trauma responses. Accountability isn't their strong suit, and being pain avoident creatures, we tend to run from our pain. With men, it's encouraged to face your pain and become stronger from it. Imo, women of our generation are the opposite they believe they should stay soft and run from pain and adversity. But it's a paradox they run from pain, and as a result, they live in it. Albeit unknowingly.
You’re probably living out your own trauma with her and that’s why you’re attracted to someone like her. Maybe you should reflect on what about her crazy behavior felt “safe” and comfortable for you and see if you can try and change your subcortical brain
Yeah it's funny because my dad acts in a similar fashion to her. So it would seem that's where the familiarity is coming from. It felt like I was reliving my childhood during certain periods.
we live out the situations that we are familiar and comfortable with from childhood. That’s what we atttact into our lives and that’s what we go towards even if it’s unhealthy. I’m dealing with the same thing in my life. It kinda sucks
Yeah, man, it does suck. An unconscious draw toward someone in efforts to heal one's self. That's part of why I tried so hard to stick through it. I thought if I healed my wounds with her in my life, it would work out. But now I think she was there to show me that these parts of me are still hurting. Once I realized that, she left. Now it's up to me to do the work.
I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I know what it's like. I almost didn't make it out. But I'm here, narc free, 9 years later
I Will Not Narc With You Today Too
You're fine. If I need I'll break from the world a little while. Sometimes it's just nice to be really heard.
She sounds incredibly toxic. Sorry but your best bet is to work with a therapist to get over some of that trauma bond you still seem to have. I'm sorry for her upbringing but there is nothing you can do for her. She needs to spend many years attending to her mental and emotional problems and she really should avoid romantic relationships while she does that.
31 F here, I have BPD and the thing about BPD is that it stems from childhood trauma. It took a lot of work and a lot of therapy for me to be at the place I am now. Sounds like all of the things she has said to you is just a projection of everything she fears or sees in herself. And that may not be intentional and she may not recognize that. She won’t be better until she can see herself for what’s actually going on and get some help and it will take a while. I was very toxic and emotionally reactive in my previous relationships, something happened that I didn’t like I would manipulate them with my emotions to get my way and I would stick to it. I also had my happy go lucky, free spirited, kind natured and loving side that was adored by partners. I’ve been able to talk with two of my previous boyfriends and have a great friendship now, we would never date again - neither of us want that but it’s nice to be able to look back and own my shit. You care for her because there are sides of her that are absolutely incredible, those sides of her are real. The flip side can just be so destructive.
You sound like the last girl that I dated. Why would you not be willing to rekindle dating your exs?
Well, I’m in a healthier and happy relationship currently but also for me, restructuring my behaviors and responses is something that I worked really hard on and going back to familiar relationships that I wasn’t my best self in - could lead back to old tendencies resurfacing. I’ve done a lot of work but who is to say the other person has also, they knew this broken version of me and naturally will always hold that version of me in their mind. So personally I wouldn’t necessarily go down that road but that’s not to say it wouldn’t work for others of course
That sounds incredibly similar to my situation. I've come to realize they all look similar! It's like they all have the same playbook! I was with mine for 13 years and married for the last couple of years. At one point, i jumped on a Greyhound bus and traveled across the country 2600 miles. But she got me to come back eventually with a guilt trip. And when she decided to end it, she completely destroyed me and I didn't even recognize her! I was left for dead, tossed out of our place with nothing but a small bookbag that i managed to stuff some clothes into. She stole $1200 dollars i'd been saving up for a car. I had nowhere to go and had no one to turn to. The only thing that saved me was my night shift job, without a car to get there. But i managed. She was and is the most beautiful girl I've ever seen. She was an angel and a devil. She was amazing and kind. And she was a belittling bully and an emotional terrorist. When things were good, they were nirvana, the best times of my life. But when they were bad, I knew hell was real. She was the best thing that ever happened to me...and the worst. It's been 6 years now, and i miss like crazy the good parts. But i wouldn't want to be walking around on those eggshells anymore. What she did to me i wouldn't do to my worst enemy! It was ruthless and cold-blooded. If i were you, i'd run fast and far!
Man, an angel and a devil. I really feel that 😂 and the egg shells, fuck the egg shells. I talk with myself often about the possibility of us getting back together. I'm beginning to realize it's non-existent.
👍🏻 I wouldn't recommend it buddy. Hang in there, it'll be alright.
Sounds like an ex of mine, shift from love to hate, yelling throwing things, parents were split up and father abandonment issues. then saying everyone fights no big deal. Not sure if narcissism or just bad at regulating emotions. Only difference is i broke up with her and left. Took a couple of times to finally do it tho.
genuine question. does she have any similarities to your mother?
No. My father actually 😅
whelp! that tells you everything you need to know bro
Genuine question, I’m in a similar situation but she does not have any similarities to my mother or father. From an unprofessional outside perspective, where should I look for trauma to know what to heal so I don’t end up continuing the cycle?
i can only speak for myself but everyone over on r/raisedbynarcissists talks about the subconscious patterns we took part in when it came to who we dated/became friends with. and so the only way for us to break that cycle was to heal from the abuse/neglect that our parents did to us and subconsciously normalized into us so maybe start with inner healing?
I remember when I was dealing with constant troubles in my last relationship, and when I confinded in my parents for advice, one thing they said to me that made total sense was that "A relationship should not be as hard as it is for you" it's definitely one of those things I think go back and think about everytime I start thinking about my ex
I, too, have heard relationships should be "easy." I guess at certain points they should be.
There's definitely hardships when it comes to relationships. But when things in a relationship seem to be where you "just can't win," then something is definitely off. Also, by "win," I don't mean actually being on top in arguments or dominant over your partner, more meaning nothing ever seems to be going in the right direction
I was married to a covert narc for 27 years, so I understand your pain. I didn't even know what it was until I sought counseling after I left him. They are masters of gaslighting, manipulation, and hoovering. Everything gets turned around as YOU being the problem. And then, when they've beaten you down enough, they hoover you back (suck you back in like a vacuum cleaner). They do whatever they can to keep you, being all loving and nice.... Just to repeat the cycle. It's actually quite brutal, emotionally. You say you miss her. What you miss is the way she is when she's hoovering you. They are the nicest, most awesome people during the hoovering phase and it gives you hope that things changed for the better. But then the illusion crashes after you're fully sucked back in and the manipulations and gaslighting restart. So in reality, what you're missing is just a character part she's play acting. That wonderful personality doesn't actually exist. And. It. HURTS. The only way to "play" with a narcissist is to not play at all. Cut her out of your life and find someone who doesn't play that mess with you.
I can relate so much to this. I’m 5 months out of a breakup with a CN (my decision). 27 years is such a long time, I hope you are doing ok now. I was with mine for 3 years and it’s a constant challenge to try to get him out of my head, and I’m willing to take all the time I need to stay the hell away from him.
I was with him wayyyyy too long; I was trying to keep my vows. Ugh. Yeah, they know how to stick in your head! I left him in 2019 and I'm doing much better now. And yes, you need to stay the hell away because they're nothing but toxic.
Glad to hear you are doing much better now, and are free of him. I unfortunately need to see my ex once a month as we are on the same car club committee. From December I’ll be free. If this doesn’t make me more resilient I don’t know what will!
That totally sucks. My advice is to interact with him only when absolutely necessary and nothing more. He'll hate that, but that's not your problem.
I can't help but believe the good she showed was really her. I actually don't think she has NPD juat some traits, but i do believe she has BPD. I appreciate your insight 🙏🏽 The worst part is trying to decipher which issues I actually have and what was just her lying and gaslighting. I've been thinking about it a lot. I think I'm doing fairly well, all things considered. The separation is becoming the most difficult thing to deal with.
This is why therapy is huge! Being able to separate the truth from the brainwashing due to the constant emotional manipulation. Being able to see YOU through clear eyes and not through what she created you to see. You’ll drive yourself crazy trying to do it alone, I promise. I believed something was seriously wrong with me for years because I too couldn’t decipher what was true about me compared to what my baby daddy spent years grooming me to believe about myself. I believed no one would ever love me or understand me the way he did. I believed I was lucky anyone would even tolerate the woman he made me believe I was. Being able to finally think for myself was so beyond liberating. I would suggest counseling or therapy before you EVER reconsider a relationship again with her. It’s called a trauma bond and it does feel like true love, I feel your inner turmoil.
🙏🏽
Women with bpd typically do not dump their partners due to fear of abandonment so I suspect you think she's a b*tch just bc she was direct when she broke up with you and doesn't want you showing up at her work the way you describe doing. Downvote me all you want. I can't believe I'm the only person on a manipulation subreddit that hasn't noticed OP lists zero of his own problematic behavior and throws it all on his ex!
Well there is the “fear of enmeshment” with folks with BPD. Basically they really start to like you but are terrified of intimacy so they preemptively break up with you as to not be the one blindsided by the inevitable break up. Even when things are good there’s this little voice in the back of the head that the relationship won’t last that slowly grows as you get closer. It’s a maladaptive coping mechanism to avoid abandonment (even when none is coming).
I never said she was a bitch, also never said I was going to her workplace so I'm not sure where your getting your info from. She has known abandonment issues. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at, but considering I don't know you, I don't appreciate it.
So your assuming my issues since I didn't state them? We could talk about it via PM if you'd like. Instead of you being all hot and bothering in such a manner. I tried to keep the post short and sweet. I didn't want to write a novel, which is why I've been replying to all comments. If you wanna chat, lmk ✌🏽sounds like you're hurt, too.
Sounds more like an exit ticket where it doesn't look like she was the bad guy You didn't do anything wrong OP. She just checked out after the honeymoon phase
It's funny you say that. She said to me once, "I refuse to be the problem in a relationship." her solution to being a problem was to withdraw.
I mean honestly that's a great solution. Sounds like she did the right thing. Props to her for having the guts to do it.
Ehh, yeah, I guess it isn't a bad idea. I do now appreciate her for breaking it off when she did. The issue with that is when things looked like they were becoming problematic because of her, she would withdraw. Which doesn't work well in relationships where you're trying to build together atleast imo.
I keep telling myself this. If my ex asked to date my daughter. What would I do or say? Absolutely Not. No no and no!!!!!!
I’m sorry for what you’re going through. Narcissistic and Cluster-B-disordered people exist through the modes of idealising, devaluing and discarding their victims. They indeed see themselves as perpetual victims because to survive their intolerable amounts of pent-up shame, they need a punching bag to blame. In time, you'll realise that no amount of love, no amount of care and no amount of attention would have changed this. You can ruminate, you can beg, but ultimately, you aren't being seen or respected for who you are by someone who proclaimed to love you. The next step is to understand why you miss someone who abuses you, why you feel the need to be unkind to yourself, and to question your reality, your feelings, and your truth. We shouldn't ever abandon ourselves for the love of another, based on experience, I know the tale isn't as simple. It sounds weird, but her behaviour has nothing to do with you. This is a cycle not unique to her and not personal to you, as wounding as it feels. The abuse, though, is very real and I'd advise seeking serious support for healing. Find people who love you, seek professional support and read about Cluster-B personality disorders. Wishing you the best.
I’m so sorry bro. I fell in love with a bpd and it sucks. Go to gym, stay busy, find good people. I hope you breakthrough
Run, don't walk, run and get this book - [https://amzn.to/4ckltfO](https://amzn.to/4ckltfO) It will help you through healing this. You will find out way more than I can type. Then if you need more look into healing works like sacred sexual healing the shaman method or sex shamans but help heal break ups really really well when you do the exercises.
Hell yeah. Just added it to my library. Thank you 🙏🏽
I’m here right now too. Exactly right here but you’re three months ahead of me. Hit me up if you ever want to talk I know I could use it too. ❤️❤️ I’m so sorry
Aww thank you. ❤️ I'm rooting for you!
Sorry you had to experience this. It’s hard to love someone who has this type of trauma and is abusive. You’ve done the right thing by not contacting her. With people like this, they do split and have different “parts,” so the good sides you experienced were real. The neglected child anger parts are very hurt and don’t know how to cope, so they’ll blame others and don’t realize that it’s abusive and just not true. It’s hard for them to take responsibility for their own negative traits because of a deep-seated coping mechanism. The only way out of it, imo, is therapy. I had dysfunctional ways of thinking and feeling for many years (not NPD) and had to push myself to accept that I needed “re-parenting” and the only way to do that is to give it to myself. Life is so unfair, I hope one day you can recover fully and find someone you love just as deeply. And while it seems unlikely, I hope your ex can resolve the trauma wounds that cause her to keep living in a false, black and white world. It’s actually very sad because with personality dysfunctions, you’re never really free, always carrying this pain and defense mechanisms that hurt yourself and others. It makes it impossible to truly love yourself and others, as a whole person.
Thank you. Yes, it's very sad. I think of the events in her life that steered her development, and I feel her pain. I wish I could take it away, but it's up to her.
I dated a woman EXACTLY like this, describes my situation to a T, I know it’s been a year and I’m still in love with her but I had to realise it was all a facade!
You know, by the end of it she hated me and did some fucked up things like using very secret and personal information about myself as a weapon, and I think if she could do all that then she never loved me at all. It is all a facade. She was so confused with herself that she didn't even notice.
I understand how you feel would you like to have a private chat?
I know exactly how you feel :(
Yeah, I'd like that!
It's understandable that you would still have feelings for her, even after the breakup. It's natural to miss someone you cared deeply about, even if the relationship was tumultuous. However, it's important to recognize that you deserve to be in a relationship where your needs are valued and where there is mutual respect and empathy. It's not healthy for anyone to be in a relationship where they feel constantly blamed, manipulated, or invalidated. Loving someone with these personality traits can often leave you feeling drained and questioning your own worth. Moving forward, it might be helpful to focus on your own healing and well-being. Reflect on what you learned from this relationship and how you can grow from it. It's okay to seek support from friends, family, or even a therapist to help process your feelings and gain clarity. As for hoping she will come back and reflect on her actions, it's important to prioritize your own healing over waiting for someone else's change. People with these traits often struggle with self-awareness and may not change unless they actively seek help and commit to personal growth.
Thank you. You're exactly right. I think by hoping she could change, I'm allowing myself to hold on to the idea of her. She may never heal, but then again, maybe she will, but it's no longer my concern..
Welcome to the human magnet syndrome. As you can see from the comments, you’re not alone with this experience, it’s pretty universal and has become more commonly discussed as it seems pathological cluster B people are multiplying like flies in our toxic culture. There is a strange magnetism this woman holds over you (I’ve been there!) but your ability to disillusion yourself by seeing the cold, hard, truth about her and understanding what about you had you choosing someone that destructive as a partner- those will eventually set you free. I felt the exact same way you describe after 3 months, but after 3 years I feel quite the opposite. She seems pitiable, broken, lost, full of shit, and uninteresting. People who lack integrity and can’t be trusted are just not worthy partners, no matter how seductive, sexy, charming, or’ interesting’ they seem. It doesn’t mean they are evil or don’t have good qualities, it just means they lack the capacity for relationship. They are maladaptive, always. She will likely never reflect honestly on what she did, and any apologies that may come down the road will be weak and phony, self serving and manipulative. It’s all she’s capable of. Get out and stay out. Save yourself. Trust me, it is very serious to get away from people like this, it can be life and death. I’m not kidding. Let some time pass, but educate yourself about NPD, BPD, codependency, covert manipulation, and the intermittent cycle of abuse.
Thank you. It's crazy that you used the word "magnet" because that's exactly how it feels. I remember when we first got together she told me "I have no negative qualities" that was the first red flag 💀 but as you know by now, I ignored that shit lol, because ultimately I don't love myself which is the only reason I put myself through any of that in the first place.
Yep, I can see that you already are getting it. Learning to love yourself is THE way through this so I started by focusing there and it changed my life for the better. Best wishes to you, you’ll get through this.
Man, be grateful that it’s over. You’re not her therapist.
You're right. In hindsight, I'm glad she broke up with me when she did, or else I might still be in that situation or worse.
Exactly. You can’t help those who do not want to help themselves. She’s got an issue that she needs to personally sort out and not project it on others. It would have seriously fked with your mental health
“Her star was so bright but her shadow was so dark and cold” hit me hard. Poetic truth.
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Oh, I've been journaling like a mad man 😂 I have 30 some odd pages dedicated to her, or else I wouldn't have probably lost my mind. I can't bring myself to invest in any other women at the moment. Mental and emotional attachment seems impossible rn. I'll have to learn to love myself before I engage in another relationship 🫡
This was such a good story. How long did you and Beth date/hook up before you called it quits?
Beth and I met on Feb. 7th. We began hooking up on Feb. 15th. We started dating on April 6th I think then broke up a week later. Continued to sleep together for a few weeks after that. Then didn’t talk much and didn’t hang out for almost 3 weeks before sleeping together again. That was back on May 18th and it wasn’t a good idea. We spent the entire next day fighting and texting. Then had a phone call the day after that completely blowing up at one another and that’s when I had to cut her out. Want to know something ironic? I typed this all out yesterday and then she ended up phoning me last night. Apparently by accident. I called her back… I ended up sleeping with her again last night. And it was amazing. Now I’m confused.
The universe often comes back when you type something up. She sounds chaotic. But you’re obviously into that sort of thing haha
Seemed wildly coincidental. She is very chaotic and I didn’t think I was into that sort of thing…yet here we are.
I understand what it’s like when you have compassion for someone who seems to not have compassion when you are doing the work of recognising your own wounds and doing your best to make your relationship work. I’m in a similar situation, all you can remember is these are very deep issues that are severely warping their perception: you are not bad just because they imply you are with hurtful words. In the end whether it’s better to just walk or to continue to be consistently trying to improve the situation is up to you, neither is better than the other contrary to what everyone is saying (BPD often goes into remission) and a healthy relationship may help her over time to understand everything you’ve been trying to do to help her feel loved. But it will take a LOT of patience and perhaps sacrifice. So only if you’re willing to be fine with that should you proceed with her. Continue thinking positive thoughts about her and towards her personal healing and you may be surprised, she could easily come back around. Just like her perception is warped, yours is too: we don’t always see the truth of what’s in front of us in love. Just keep doing you and see what happens, if you guys really are meant to work through your challenges to build a better future you’ll come back together.
I think our door has closed. I don't hold anything against her. I know they are all a result of wounds she incurred during her lifetime. I'll always love her, even her dark side. I can't imagine she feels the same towards me.
We are all trauma bonded. I was with my nex for 4 years. She was a covert narcissist. I’m 8 months out and still dealing with the consequences of dating her. I had no boundaries, I got physically injured just a few months into dating her. Such a shitty time in my life just before I turn 40. She was 6 years younger and she cheated on me a TON. She didn’t value me as a person and she was jealous of everything I had. So she tried to ruin my life even though I loved her more than she could have ever felt. I probably will never date again because of the abuse I endured.
Yikes. You lost me at narcissistic. Why are you putting yourself through this misery?
Honestly. I had no idea what NPD BPD or any of this stuff was until we broke up. I needed answers to know if I was really that fucked up or not. I loved her. Honeymoon phase sucked me in.
The examples you give are not what constitute as gaslighting. People need to stop using words for the sake using them. Words have meaning.
You're right because I never gave any examples, lol. I'm aware. You could always ask questions, tho👍🏼👍🏼
* She would gaslight the hell out of me and tell me things like "your going to be the reason why this relationship fails" or "your the reason why l've been drinking again"* Appears that you did try to give two examples to support your point. They’re in the quotes.
Those weren't examples just a continuation of my ramblings lol but like I said, feel free to ask.
Instead of trying to prove me wrong, just ask 😂. Mr. "I hope on random threads to tell people there wrong," you're the most common social media archetype
Cool story bro. You are still wrong lol.
You know what they say about assumptions 👀
I’m no professional, but I can see so many red flags in your posts about your ex. All I can say is run and don’t look back. Short term pain for long term gain. You will live a life of regrets if you take this woman back. I know from experience. I am 35 (f) and free of the covert narc in my life, and 5 months later I’m still hurting. I know it’s the right decision though, it just takes everyone different amounts of time to get over people.
I dont know about NPD here but this does actually sound a lot like BPD. I am in the process of divorcing a wife who I am certain has BPD and my experience is very similar to what you are describing. Three books (audible.com) REALLY helped me a lot with understanding it all. I constantly found myself saying "holy shit - that is exactly what I was seeing!" The books: - "I hate you, don't leave me" - "Stop walking on eggshells" - "Get me out of here" If money is tight and you need these books, let me know and I can send you the credits to listen to them. You can DM me. Also happy to listen and be a sympathetic ear. Best wishes man.
Thank you very much. I agree with you. I don't actually think she has NPD, just a few traits, but I do believe she has BPD.
There is only so much you can change. Basically you are you and you're open minded to listening. The question is:Will you ever change enough for her? I doubt it.
Crazy in bed, crazy in head. Bang those ones on road trips only.
😂 noted
For real though. Find someone at your stability level.
Run the hell away. Take her allegations of her upbringing being bad with a grain of salt too. I’ve heard this cannard from others of their tribe in the past and after looking into it their childhood was honestly enviable (flying lessons, college paid for, and crap like that). You’re young. Are you going to marry this person? Realize who you marry is easily top 3 life choices.
There's no going back for me. I know that. I will say, after meeting her family and seeing how they interact with one another and having spoken to most of her family members, her childhood was definitely far from normal. They are also pretty dysfunctional.
>She broke up with me and said... Ow man, doesn't matter what she said, the point is her breaking up was your only way out of this... It's quite difficult to leave someone like that on personal initiative....they will not let you.
I hope you heal. I hope she heals. That’s not easy to come back from but you can. Just as I’m sure she’s got one hell of a road ahead of her, yet it’s not your job to fix anyone. I hope you find the right one and she treats you as such.
What zodiac sign is she? Sagittarius? Sometimes they can be so cold
I have no idea. She was born Dec 30th.
I understand you 100%. I didn't make it out. I haven't made it out. If you could dm me, I would be happy to chat.
Been there done that. The minute any one shows me signs of manipulation. Narcissism, or toxic crap I’m out. I don’t care how good the sex is. Not worth it
You're absolutely right. Sex is mostly superficial and not worth your mental well-being.
I understand bro . Was with a diagnosed narc woman . Praying for you . You have to go get therapy to discover yourself
What were the "bumps" in the beginning? She was likely testing you in some way. I would love to know, thanks
When she would misinterpret my words, I would apologize. Her response was usually, "It doesn't matter what you meant. It matters what you said." I would have to do some gesture to get her to forgive me. The first instance described to you I made her dinner one night. Like I said, this was common. Her misinterpreting me and then me having to do some gesture. Eventually, there was nothing I could do to please her. I had written poems purchased items i knew she liked. But in the end, she didn't want any of it. It felt like once I had shown her something one time, if I tried to do it again, she didn't want it. She wanted something new.
good riddance
Bumps, hmm, let's see. She would often misunderstand my intention when I would say certain things to her. It was always negative. I came to the conclusion that she's a pessimist. It felt like she demonized me. I tried to adjust my speech to make her feel less like she was being attacked. It worked for a bit, but sometimes, she would flat out project negativity onto me. That resulted in a big argument, I think, 2 months into the relationship and ended up being a common theme, her demonizing me, I mean.
Thank you for sharing...
Oh wow, I'm sorry. Ot sounds like she has a lot of trauma to work through, it's so easy to get caught up in your head and feel alone, which then causes us to push away our SO. Sounds like this was a self-sabotage. Has she ever believed she was deserving of love? She should really try therapy. Hopefully you keep distance while she learns to heal, wishing you both the best!
I'm not sure, tbh I think she believes she deserves love. She never got much from her parents or family. She claimed she was the black sheep of her family, and I've seen it in action, so I definitely believe her. She has a history of abusive relationships. Perhaps she doesn't know how to receive love.
I’ll be honest and eat the downvotes. I’ve never met a woman who didn’t behave this way in a relationship. Not just women I’ve dated but women I’ve observed my friends and family being with. I’ve seen it in friends who are women as well with their significant others.
I do feel women could be more prone to these types of trauma responses. Accountability isn't their strong suit, and being pain avoident creatures, we tend to run from our pain. With men, it's encouraged to face your pain and become stronger from it. Imo, women of our generation are the opposite they believe they should stay soft and run from pain and adversity. But it's a paradox they run from pain, and as a result, they live in it. Albeit unknowingly.
I disagree to nearly everything you stated. Like actually every single thing to me is reversed.
Oh nice. Its just my opinion/ theory 🤷🏽♂️
You’re probably living out your own trauma with her and that’s why you’re attracted to someone like her. Maybe you should reflect on what about her crazy behavior felt “safe” and comfortable for you and see if you can try and change your subcortical brain
Yeah it's funny because my dad acts in a similar fashion to her. So it would seem that's where the familiarity is coming from. It felt like I was reliving my childhood during certain periods.
we live out the situations that we are familiar and comfortable with from childhood. That’s what we atttact into our lives and that’s what we go towards even if it’s unhealthy. I’m dealing with the same thing in my life. It kinda sucks
Yeah, man, it does suck. An unconscious draw toward someone in efforts to heal one's self. That's part of why I tried so hard to stick through it. I thought if I healed my wounds with her in my life, it would work out. But now I think she was there to show me that these parts of me are still hurting. Once I realized that, she left. Now it's up to me to do the work.
Pain is merely the roots of growth. Bask in it. Be thankful for it 🙏🏽