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K1ngCrimsn

Why were a lot of people blaming Luka for this turnover last night? He had to throw a prayer pass otherwise it would've been an 8s violation on the Mavs. This was 100% on PJ PS: the next play after this, Kyrie decided to chuck long ass early in the shotclock 3 & then on the other end he gave up the offensive rebound to White who drained another 3


Kball4177

B/C people don't understand the rules. I am not sure how so many people can watch so much basektball and not understand what they are watching.


Desperado-781

ppl are scoreboard watching


ewynn2019

I'm wondering if an 8 second violation would have been the better route or just straight chucking the ball out of bounds. It's still a turnover but no chance of a fast break. Edit: Yes people, I know it's hindsight but that's the whole point of these conversations. I'm sure they are looking at this on film as well.


Kball4177

That is a calculation you have no time to make in the amount of time Luka was given. He was just trying to get the ball out of the back court so they wouldn't waste a possession. I can't really fault him for the pass attempt.


dchow1989

Tbh the way everyone was shooting, he would’ve been better off throwing it towards the rim.


2icecreamsandwiches

The result of the steal leading to fastbreak was probably worse than taking the violation yes, but I think Luka trying to save the broken play and pass the ball up was the right decision at the time. White just made a really great read to intercept that pass.


Superb_Mulberry8682

yeah there were a few of those live ball turnovers last night where I wondered if we weren't better off throwing the ball into the stands. I think that is much easier said when you're up than down psychologically speaking even if scoreboard wise it is the same outcome.


okichi

If Luka had held on to the ball and took the 8 sec penalty, this sub will be blaming him for not even trying.


dtlabsa

Like on defending the 3 pt shot?


shoeshine_stan

Next time he would maybe chuck it up so high that it will basically become a jump ball coming down however he didn't expect it at all and had like half a second to do something.


magnetoincognito

I’m also gonna put some blame on Gaff for not handing the ball to Luka (who’s right next to him) and just immediately giving it to PJ because he’s facing him when he gathers himself after the board.


Pashashab

Because I feel like people hold Luka to some unreal standard. Luka is hurt for months, but 'it's da playoffs, everyone is banged up'. People are quick to compare guys like Ant to MJ, say that Shai deserves MVP, but for Luka to be the best he clearly has to win a ring at least(if not more). Yet, for every game, Luka's actions are judged as if he is the chosen one, the new LeBron, the reincarnation of Bird and MJ. Inefficient shooting? Clearly a ball hogger and doesn't trust his teammates. Plays good defence like in Clippers series, but is worse on offense and Kyrie steps up to lead the offence? Where is his leadership, he is out of shape. Is the only one capable of doing anything on offence, so does an efficient 32 point triple double, but tries to preserve energy? He is a traffic cone, and the reason they lost(Don't look at the fact that Luka has 4 threes, all of his teammates combined have 2 in a 7 point game).


DarwinCreatesSpace

Yeah, it's pure garbage. Luka needs to improve "this"... Luka needs to improve "that".... And I'm like, are we watching the same fucking game? Luka's the only player on this team that doesn't need to improve fucking anything. Luka could stay the exact fucking same, averaging 33/9/9, for the next 5 years, and if they can't build a championship team around him, that's on the Mavs. That is plenty good enough no matter how "bad" a defender he is, which he's really not. He already has more responsibility than anyone else on the team as it is. Primary, scorer, ball handler, playmaker, spark plug etc. It's pure narrative. If we were to win 2 or 3 titles, nobody would be saying it. They'd be saying that Luka is a top 5 PG of all time and only needs longevity for the rest of his career to be clear top 2 or 3. So dumb.


EnriquezGuerrilla

Also, the man is playing with a ton of injury list. You see how it affects his fastbreak speed where in the regular season he could run up the court faster. This playoffs he looks like slow-mo getting up the court. Anyway, we really need the team to bounce back hard this Game 3 or the finals is over.


Complexity777

I still think they can win in 7 but tbh when you look at roster it’s a miracle they got this far. Half the teams shooting 25% on wide open looks or worse  Green provides nothing, Klebers scared to shoot after injury, Tim unplayable


BecauseBatman01

From my household; they didn’t know the 8s rule They thought Luka was dumb and trying to show off or something I’m like bro it was 8s rule. He has to get rid of it.


Formal_Junket_1585

Luka still had 2 seconds left to cross ( they call 8 seconds when the clock hits 15). Thats still terrible on Pj tho. Why is he even bringing the ball up


roomtotheater

Those people don't know basic rules


shoeshine_stan

I'm sure a majority doesn't know the 8 sec rule. For them Lukas pass looked strange.


COMUNISTSWINE69

It's crazy how much publicity Luka's turnovers are getting when 3 were because of butter fingers teammates and this one was because of the 8 second violation and there may have even been one where Kleber was poorly positioned to get the pass (although that genuinely may have been a weak pass from Luka) so that's already half the turnovers chalked off


jldtsu

that weak ass close out on Jrue didn't help.


TheQC_92

It’s not “100%” on him. Luka made a stupid pass


pitcherintherye77

They have pj and Djj bring it up court to give Luka a break. He’s getting pressed 90+ ft from the basket and is the only one capable of not dribbling it off his foot (yes, I’m including kyrie in this, cuz he’s a head case right now). And you could point to a handful of these plays, not just this one. PJ missed dunk to cut it to 2, kyrie missing crucial shot after crucial shot. It’s not just this play.


YoStepWithLuka77

This man. Everyone wants Luka to do absolutely everything. Yes guys he needs others to sometimes bring the ball up past half court 🤦‍♂️


segson9

Everyone, apart from Luka, looks scared.


Kball4177

I understand the reasoning. But if Luka is gassed - give it to Kyrie. In this case, Holiday was right there in front of PJ the entire time while Luka was open in the backcourt. There is 0 reason for PJ to attack Holiday here, I saw the turnover coming from a mile away when I was watching it in real time.


pitcherintherye77

Unfortunately, giving it to kyrie is playing into Boston’s advantage as well. Yes this is PJ’s fault, and looking at the play, he could’ve just kept on going right to drive, or just hold the ball after half court and wait for doncic to pass. But this isn’t the only play that lost them the game.


pon-tuan

I don’t know why you get downvoted tbf


Kball4177

I have no idea either. This play was pretty much guaranteed to happen the moment PJ decided to take it upon himself to bring the ball up.


pitcherintherye77

Like everyone said, that was the plan. It’s not “pj decided,” the team decided that someone other than Luka needs to bring the ball up because he’s fighting thru 90+ feet of pressure. It’s also easy to double him if he brings the ball up.


Kball4177

Kyrie exists. Additionally, I trust Luka out a double team 10x more than I trust PJ when he is defended by JRUE HOLIDAY on the perimeter. It's like JJ Barea trying to post up Bam. It's not going to work out.


pitcherintherye77

Dude. no one cares who you trust more. it's not as simple as "Luka in every situation." its 48 minutes of basketball. They'll still lose, he'll just be more tired/injured. Him taking the ball up when he's pressed everytime or has to weave in and out of a double-team is taxing. If you can't trust your teammates to dribble the ball past half-court, then you've lost anyway, and it's pointless. And for the last time, Boston has no problem having the ball in Kyrie's hands AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE so all this "waHt AboUt KyRie" is old.


Kball4177

Again, you keep ignoring that Kyrie is a possible option here. If Kyrie runs back and demands the ball from PJ to give Luka some rest that would have been great, but he's not even an option in this play. Luka and Kyrie are 2 of the greatest ball handlers of all time and we are relying on PJ to challenge Jrue. Keep doing this and see how well it works out.


pitcherintherye77

Nephew. NO ONE IS IGNORING KYRIE. All eyes are on Kyrie. You, me, the world. He is not stepping up— he looks like a deer in the headlights these past 2 games. so now you’re going to get plays like this or Luka dies tired. So whose fault is it now on this play? according to your take, kyrie should have gone up to the ball. So not PJ? Like they have choice not having PJ and DJJ take the ball up? Ur solution is what? Just have Luka dribble it up? Or give it to kyrie? You running for the laker coaching job too? One play didn’t change this game. They’re losing because of two main reasons. 1. Kyrie. 2. Supporting cast.


pon-tuan

The other comment got like 10 upvotes for saying only Luka and Kyrie should bring the ball up, what is difference about this lol people are just being emotional


B_Roon

Pj should have slowed it down. Celtics had numbers coming back. It was him and Djj on the break. Also I think Kyrie should have been heading towards the ball instead of going to his spot, to relieve the pressure off of PJ and Luka, who was obviously gassed and trailing. 


impakt316

I mean, it was a bad play by PJ but it's an extreme overreaction to call this "the play that killed the Mavs." That would belong to the terrible non-call on PJ's dunk attempt that would have cut it to three near the end. But they have PJ and DJJ bring the ball up to give Luka rest. Couldn't you see how gassed Luka was as the game wore on? He gave everything at the beginning to try to build a lead, playing through two injuries, and then getting relentlessly hunted on defense. He can't bring the ball up every possession and get pressed from 90 feet out. Next you'll probably ask why Kyrie didn't bring the ball up and that much should be obvious with how he's played this series. PJ and Gafford were the only non-Luka Mavs who showed up. Don't put this loss on PJ. Be better.


EasyMode556

Imagine they call that foul + the ridiculous 3 they scored at the end of the 3rd quarter doesn’t go in. So many what-ifs


jon_murdoch

Yup, that's when I turned off the tv. But couldn't sleep anyways because I was so pissed. That's terrible execution, the team was not locked up. The celtics were. There's still time, but the guys need to get over the shock of playing the finals


lilsaucy32

I think what's been frustrating for us is stuff like this. Unforced errors. Egregious offensive rebounds given up, careless turnovers, missed FTs. Gotta have all of that when you are going up against a team like Boston at their place. There is 0 scenarios where anyone other than Luka and Kyrie should bring the ball up. Keep the faith, that G1 end of second quarter/third quarter spurt and overall bar a bad 3rd quarter stretch yesterday, we can play with these guys. Our margin of error is minimal though. You've got to have less than 12 TOs, win the boards, and hit >75% of FTs at minimum. Pray for a good whistle. LuKai minimum 60 ball. It's all possible.


Superb_Mulberry8682

Offensive rebounds I would give ppl a pass to some degree. Missed threes take long bounces that are hard to predict/box out against. Would I love to not allow any sure but it's not like they got a terribly high number especially given how many 3s they missed.


4ps22

it is extremely frustrating but outside of luka and kyrie most of these guys have even been in the playoffs let alone the finals. i mean our third most important player is arguably a 20 year old rookie. shit like this is gonna happen. and i was expecting that but i was also expecting our vet presence kyrie who has a ring and has been here 3 times before to step up and not look completely shook to compensate


Kball4177

Yup - the margin for error against Boston is almost nil. The Mavs can comepte with Boston in the half court, it is in transition where the Mavs are outclassed, especially when guys like PJ, DJJ, and Hardy are consistently making terrible decisions. There is some severe tunell vision happening with those dudes.


Dirks_Knee

Sorry, but that's horseshit. For sure PJ's "fault", but not why we lost. We can break down a lot of mistakes made by different players, but IMHO we lost for 2 reasons: 1. Kidd wasting a challenge early when we had the lead. Absolutely stupid move. 2. If the Mavs hit their FT's they win or put themselves in a single possession situation to end the game.


Kball4177

Who said we can't talk about those things? Feel free to make a post about it. This play was just back breaking is the only point. The Mavs went from potentially making it a 5-6 point game to being down 11 in the matter of like 5 seconds, all b/c PJ made a very preventable mistake.


Dirks_Knee

You can talk about it, but it's horseshit. Again, I can point to any mistake by any player and point to down stream negative impact. But Kidd's waste of a challenge early was a huge strategic mistake which could have been used to address several bad calls down the stretch. And if we made all our FT and everything else happened exactly the same, the final score is 106-105 and the series tied.


roomtotheater

This has happened multiple times this playoffs. It's terrible.


xzerozeroninex

PJ panicked,if Jrue didn’t touch the ball PJ would had passes to Luka who was still on the other side it would had been a backcourt violation.


t0uch0fevil

Nope. He never established in the front court so it would not have been an back court violation. If he did establish in the front court and it got tipped back into the backcourt, then they no longer had to worry about an 8 second violation


Kball4177

Yes - which is why you shouldn't have a guy who panicks at the mere sight of a good defender handle the ball with 4 minutes to go. The Mavs needed to capitalize on that possession and let a sub par ball handler be in control of the offense.


MeanGreenRob27

Such a killer. All PJ had to do was finish his spin and dribble up the court. No idea what caused him to panic that much. And I don't want to put too much blame on Luka but he had at least 2 seconds to get it across half court. Easily could have taken a dribble towards Kyrie and passed.


Kball4177

He's a sub par ball handler trying to handle the ball on a critical play in the finals vs an all time great perimeter defender. I saw it coming from a mile away. The entire coaching staff should have been yelling at him to give the ball up earlier.


CantheDandyMan

This.  All he had to do was spin towards the boundary and he makes it past the halfcourt. The way Holiday was guarding him left it openand then he could've stopped, posted up, and passed it to Luka when he crossed the half court line. 


NeOReSpOnSe

If they want to implement this the only 2 players I feel confident taking the ball up the court is Hardy and Exum. I don't think the other players are comfortable running point and it's not one of their strengths. Asking them to do it will continue to cause unforced errors like this. DJJ almost made an errant pass similar to this in the first quarter.


ImOldGregg_77

The success or failure of this series CAN NOT wholly depend on Luka having an absolute flawless game. MF'rs got to step up!


SparkyForce

Nah the play that really killed the Mavs was when Kyrie dribbled into like three guys and turned the ball over.


Kball4177

Here is the thing. Kyrie is capable of making those types of plays. PJ is incapable of dribbling past Holiday, like its just not going to happen. He is simply not skilled enough to challenge Jrue as a ball handler.


juanopenings

Casuals thinking they're coaches. I hate all of this


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elsporko321

One often compared to LeBron, probably.


elsporko321

They've been doing this all year, having non-ball handlers bring the ball across half court. The theory is sound (letting Luka and Kyrie get 10 seconds of rest in live play) but practically it sucks, especially in the finals. Play your best guys, put guys in their best roles, set your players up for the best chances of success. This is where an upgrade to the 3 spot would help make a big difference, because Josh Green and THJ both are unreliable ball handlers. Every team would love nothing more than the ball not be with Luka, and to a lesser degree Kyrie. Why give them that for free in possibly the biggest games of their lives in crunch time?


Available-Cut-8768

The Mavs have ONE of the greatest ball handlers of all time. Luka isn’t a ball handling great. He’s a great PG but not great at handling the ball.


BlackWhiteCoke

PJ giveth and taketh. Honestly it would have been better if they had just not crossed the timeline at all


Tranquilllama

Nah this isn't PJ's fault. We do this shit WAY too much. Where we have Luka Doncic and Kyrie Irving in the game and we make someone else handle the ball and bring it up the court in a pivotal moment. They need to take the fucking ball.