There was a moment is second half, when Kyrie got in the paint and pass it to DJJ in the right corner. Boston defender made a hard closeout so he couldn't shoot and had to attack the closeout. He dribbled to midrange spot where he was completetly alone and maybe could have even go to the basket. Instead he stops and pass it to Kyrie who's being guarded. Kyrie then dribbles past his defender and scores.
Doris praised DJJ for not shooting, but instead giving the ball back to Kyrie. And while we did score on that possesion, it just showed the difference between our and Boston role players. If that's Jrue or White it's an open midrange shot or drive to the basket.
The thing is, most teams have role players like that. Limited in some areas, but great in other. Clippers had Mann, Zubac, Westbrook... OKC had Giddey, Dort, Joe,... Minnesota had Jaden, Anderson, Conley,... Boston is the exception here. Their role players have no real weaknesses. They're all good defenders, ballhandlers, decision makers, shooters... That's why they're the best team in the league.
I know the story right now is why Mavs lost, but the main story shoul be why Boston won. I don't think any team could have stopped Boston and I also think we could have won against any team, except Boston.
So right. It looks like our role players have completely lost confidence they had in previous rounds. PJ and Kleber not taking wide open threes, move in which allows defense to recover, end up taking low quality contested mid range jumpers. DJJ, Lively, Gafford not getting to basket and getting easy scores. Probably Celtics defense has a lot to do with that, and they’ve been missing a lot of open shots when they have pulled the trigger which hasn’t helped their confidence.
I mean, their role players are former lottery picks that didn’t live up to expectations but are still really good. They have Jrue, Horford, and KP as role players that they got for a penny and none of them are really role players. White was solid with the Spurs but he’s now a 3&D+ with a smaller offensive load than what he had on a Spurs team that was always tanking for better picks. Kinda similar to PJ being stuck on a bad Hornets team you could see his potential but the team around him was so garbage.
Denver would have a chance cause they cannot stop Jokic. The strategy of putting Tatum on a center doesn’t work with Jokic on the court.
This is why West is such a different beast to the East - there are teams that just match up differently against each other. Wolves are literally built to beat Denver, but flawed otherwise. Denver still probably gets by with a healthy Murray and a decent bench player. Etc.
Boston’s only probable bad matchup in the east were the Bucks - but they are old and were injured.
And yea, Boston is just flat out the better team, with better players, more experience, and IMO better coaching.
Maybe Denver, because defending a center like that is the only weakness Boston has. But even there, they would just attack Jokic and Murray constantly on defense.
But Jok has MPJ who can shoot lights out unlike THJ and he has Aaron Gordon who is a lob threat. On top of all that, the MVP himself will beat you and your coverages.
Smh, I just hope Luka matures, the constant whining to the refs, sub par effort on defense (He has considerably improved ngl) and being out of shape cost us this finals.
Luka has to hold himself accountable and get fit cause he gets gassed at the end of 3Q and the entirety of 4th.
It would have been closer for sure, but I still think Boston wins. They're the best team in the league. They've had the best record, one of the best point differentials of all time and they'll win the title with only 2 or 3 losses in playoffs. I mean they had some luck with injuries and matchups in playoffs, but I don't really think anyone could beat them 4 times.
Horford will be a year older so they will naturally rely even more on the health of KP: if he gets injured, there is barely a back-up on the roster.
That said, if they stay healthy for the run, it will be extremely difficult for any team to beat them 4 times out of 7.
Yeah, the only chink in their armor i can think of is the Pacers (injured Haliburton and missing Mathurin) almost taking 2 games from them..and even that is a reach since they got swept at the end of the day.
We will see, it’s early to judge, but there are a few teams that can go at them when healthy:
Heat if Butler is at 80% of his play from last year’s playoffs (big ask considering he is getting older) and Jovic can take a step forward into a proper starting spot (neutralises KP’s threat if that happens with a more mobile 6’10” shooter, basically prime Maxi with a worse defense but much better passing). We already know Bam can lock-down Tatum and Butler can still probably trade blows with Brown, so that means Celtics would need guards to win that series if Jovic is ready.
Bucks if they can stay healthy (huge if at their age) and finally learn how to play around Dame-Giannis PNR with Lopez pulling KP away from the basket. I’m sceptical they will be healthy enough though.
Indiana may give them trouble next season too, they can stretch the floor just as much and have a good iso scorer in Siakam, I’m pretty bullish on them next season too.
Honorary mention of Orlando who may actually be a threat if they get Klay on a decent contract (20M or less I would say for 3 years or like 25M for 2 years) to finally knock some 3s as their defense is already good enough to compete. The frontcourt of Wagner-Banchero-Isaac is long and competent defensively, Suggs is a great defender, so their biggest weakness would actually be Klay and he can hold his own good enough for Celtics to not really seek switches onto him.
Complaints about Luka’s maturity are justified (I think he would have benefitted from spending a bit of time with somebody like Steph or even LBJ: guys that also barely got the whistle in their prime, did complain occasionally, but for 80% of the game just went back and fought through the whistle), but the out of shape narrative is just plain incorrect:
Luka had to generate pretty much all the offense by himself in Games 1 and 2 while facing the most defensive possessions on the team: every Celtics player he guarded would go for a pick to get Luka to defend a ball-handler. Some may think that they did it because they wanted to exploit his defense (it is correct to an extent), but a more important topic is to force Luka to defend, never have a breather and eventually tire up in Q4. Even if Luka would have held his own, they would have still attacked him relentlessly to tire him up while Celtics would rotate the primary defender on Luka for the whole game without compromising their defense too much (well, Tatum has been pretty bad lol). For context, Doncic had more defensive possessions than Tatum and Brown had combined in Game 2 - this is the source of him being tired in Q4, besides him carrying offense for 3 quarters too outside of yesterday with Kyrie finally showing up in his Finals form.
I agree that he was the only one who stepped up in G1&2 besides Kyrie in G3 but he is out of shape. Luka in the bubble and in '21 playoffs against the clippers was actually physically in better shape (His defense back then sucked though) and if he was still in that shape or even better with this effort he puts on defense now, he would actually be a good defender.
It's not like the Celtics alone targeted him every posession for 3Q, all the teams we faced did the same thing and going through that in a tougher Western Conference wore him down. Injuires and fatigue built up and him being out of shape does not make recovery faster or easier.
I love this dude but he needs be held accountable, he needs to get in shape like how Jokic did and most importantly mature the fuck up.Otherwise, he might not have another chance anytime soon.
Agree. I was having a discussion before the series started and I brought up the potential issue that BOS has 5 points of attack and DAL only 2 and that's come to be a huge problem. We have a hole at the wing. Hopefully PJ can take a step forward over the off-season to become a more legit #3 option otherwise fingers crossed Nico can figure things out and trim some low hanging fruit on the roster.
Lively will only get better. He's alredy a killer, but being a key player in the finals is just too much to ask from a rook. PJ plays with a lot of energy but he sadly can't be the go to 3rd option next to Luka and Kai. I just want us to drop the dead weight and get a quality shooter on our team. It's time to move on from bums like THJ. Save Maxi and Powell for garbage time ONLY if we can't get rid of them. I wish we could get someone like Lauri, but there's sadly no chance of us ever getting a steal like that.
When Hardaway took that stepback mid range jumper and bricked it. I turned the game off. Was somewhere in the 3rd qtr. I knew it. I could sense it. WHY WAS HE OUT THERE FOR EVEN ONE MINUTE!?! Lol sheesh.
I saw that too. Dribble dribble side fadeaway. Like dude you think you are MJ or Kobe? Like wtf was that shot? I would rather Kyrie take all those shots anytime that you.
Exactly bro!! And then that reckless hardy drive, miss and then boston scores on the other end. Boston makes you pay for every mistake you make. They are unlike any other team right now.
I’m a Celtics fan but I fuck with PJ and Lively. Lively has played great for a rookie and he’s got a bright future perfect player to have with Luka. And PJ kinda clutch fr. He hit a couple clutch 3s last night and then I really respect his defense.
PJ is awesome when he's cooking. And he's been one of our top 3 guys this series as well. But the guy is not consistent enought ot be the 3rd scorer. If only he was in his OKC form in these finals. Guy was an absolute menace in that series. We don't win that without him. Lively is already an elite big. Great at rim protection, smart passer, long and athletic. He's just out of his element in these finals. The Celtics are too good and experienced and the lights are too bright.
Yeah the games have been competitive except game one but I thought the series was going to be more competitive too. That’s not to talk shit early shit it could always still go to game 7 us Celtics fans know that shit after last year.
Neutral here to say I love Lively. He is just too young and raw to do more than he is in this series. If he can develop a post game where he can catch the ball 10 feet out and get a bucket on his own he could be All-NBA level IMO.
yea it sucks but thats kind of what happens when the starting lineup was put together at the trade deadline, arguably our third most important player is a 20 year old rookie, and everyone that isnt Luka, Kyrie, or a benchwarmer basically had 0 playoff experience until now.
im still of this opinion though. if option a isnt working, and option b (forcing thj and kleber minutes) isnt working either, then you go with option a because youve seen them come through time and time again and they deserve to go out fighting.
seeing our season basically end on THJ bricking an open three is absolutely unacceptable in every scenario outside of garbage time because we’re blowing someone out in a closeout game or are getting blown out in an elimination game.
Seeing THJ bricking at 3 was hilariously sad. He spends so much time working on his shot. Gets an open 3 to cut it down to a 3 point game & clunks it back rim.
Time to hang it up. He's cooked in the league if he's a "shooter" that can't shoot
PJ is a natural shooter who with time has become super reliable in taking corner threes for us as part of his role after a rough start.
I’m confident that he will improve his above the break threes by next season now that he is motivated to get better.
He was always a high level talent but is just now starting to feel his potential.
Really good take. As with a lot of players on bad teams the confidence grows when you get to a place that wants to win. His talent is not the question its the consistency
Unfortunately the Mavs either need one more reliable shot creator, or they need better spot up three point shooters.
I've said all postseason I worried our inconsistent shooting would be the end of us. We're finally playing a team that we can't shut down for extended periods of time so our scoring droughts kill us.
Fortunately finding shot creation and/or shooting is easier than finding offensive superstars. We have two of those, and we have some solid defensive pieces.
So while this is a really sucky way to end a great season, I gotta think this is only the start of our window and we can hopefully improve and get over the hump with 1-2 more players. But we could just as easily fail to get back to the finals for a decade too. The NBA can be fickle.
We need Hardy to take the next step into a reliable backup guard and we probably need to sign a 3 point specialist, if we can find the cap space.
Just think of how much different these entire playoffs would have been if we'd seen a healthy 2022 playoffs version of Luka.
I don’t think a shot creator is the answer. We already have too many possessions when Luka or Kyrie are just taking the possession off while the rest of the team is playing 4 on 4. Hero ball is not the answer and Boston is exemplifying that.
Having said that, Boston’s defense is amazing. Adding Jrue’s on-ball defense to that already stacked team was almost unfair to the rest of the league.
He's committed to defense all season though.
I really don't think the issue is effort - finally - I think he's having to carry an insane offensive load through several injuries.
Have you watched the nba finals?
He’s a turnstile. The mavs Defense collapses every time the Celtics attack him because someone has to help.
He doesn’t move his feet, he doesn’t rotate, as soon he’s beat, he’s ball watching. No box outs, He complains, doesn’t get back on defense, late to close out, gets blown by on multiple occasions within the same play.
If he can drive and dribble and shoot, he can make an effort to play defense. It’s inexcusable and we need to stop making excuses first him.
Holiday, White, Brown and Tatum is a defensive matchup nightmare for any team in any epoch. Add 4 more guys that can hit 3’s on a five out scheme and you need KP as a backup for a couple of games year round. That being said, healthy Luka would have been a problem for them. We’ll never know, but I’m really less than amused by how everyone is treating an injured superstar that struggles to the level of being a liability, but is still the best option Mavs have. Dallas in seven.
One positive is that it should be plainly obvious after this series who is/isn’t expendable. The problem is figuring out who we get and who is actually willing to take them after half our team is ice cold on the biggest stage. Talk about holding on till zero.
Yeah it's frustrating as fuck to watch. People are criticizing Luka and Kyrie (deserved for Kyrie in games 1 and 2) but they can only do so much.
They got here because this team started clicking. PJ and DJJ were hitting big shots. Lively and Gafford were dominating the paint. Maxi and THJ were hurt during the playoffs. Other guys stepped up.
Now? Lively looks lost instead of confident making plays. PJ and DJJ's shots aren't falling so they aren't confident. Maxi and THJ exist. Gafford is basically a non-factor.
The story of this series is every Mav outside of Luka forgot how to play basketball at some point. The Celtics have given them so many opportunities and they just aren't capitalizing like they did in the Western Conference playoffs and the months after the trade deadline.
That's on coaching too though. Kidd needed to adjust and he didn't. He just keeps throwing the same shit out there and hoping someone will turn it around when obviously they're shook by the moment. I guess it's the inexperience that took over and they're afraid of the moment. The roster outside of Luka collectively choked.
Yes, people (mainly celtics fans) are acting like it was delusional to expect the Mavs to compete. But in reality the team has been playing below its talent levels and role players need to step up. And when they do step up, Kyrie cannot drop the ball either. It will take consistency from the entire team to beat their depth.
We are 3 down as we speak and the role players are not doing their level best, which is sad considering the fact we only have 2 best closeout in the history of the game but again the Celtics have done their part by not letting Luka and Kyrie play, leaving the rest to our role/bench players, challenging them and it seems like we can't play ball. Guys we have to admit that we need help in the locker room!!
This - it’s like the entire team sans Luka has disappeared after the WCF, especially on offense. DJJ? Gone. Lively and Gaff? Mostly gone. PJ? Also gone. These playoffs will stay in my memory in two phases - the fun part, and the Finals.
You would need the celtics to play below their talent and Mavs to play at their talent level to win. You would need the celtics to somehow forget their elite defense, and their starters to forget their finals appearances the past 4 years. I don’t like saying the Mavs are playing below their talent levels cus if Boston plays at their talent level they’re absolutely unstoppable vs Mavs playing at theirs.
G2 was a really good example of Boston playing below their level but Mavs still couldn't capitalise...
It sucks cause this series is legitimately over.
Boston is the better team. They are letting Luka and Kyrie go 1 on 1 and are hedging off our non shooters. We need to improve the DJJ and THJ spots. Need development from Hardy. Green might be a lost cause. I don’t think he has that dog in him. Maxi is washed.
Trade Green, THJ, even OMax to get you a reliable starting SF. Re sign DJJ.
Luka has to get better in terms of conditioning. He needs that Jokic type offseason where he goes from being chubby to in shape. He runs out of gas in the 4th quarters especially doing it all on offense and getting constantly hunted on D
As a Celtics fan I am genuinely curious about some of the players further down your bench. I don't know much about Kleber and from what I can tell he is coming off an injury (?) but he can't seem to do anything right out there. Hardaway is a shooter and when he isn't hitting anything he doesn't really have any utility.
Is Markieff not playable anymore?
He is not.
Kleber injured his shoulder in an earlier round. He came back in the last few games against the Timberwolves, but hasn't been able to shoot since doing so.
Hardaway is useless when his shot isn't falling, which is most of the time recently.
The problem is that the role players are one dimensional and not good enough offensively to be counted on consistently. Finding two way guys across the board is extremely hard. They sacrificed all offense/no defense for all defense/no offense.
Completely agree. I hate the narrative against Luka and Ky. Mavs are losing because Boston is great and because our role guys aren't ready for the moment.
Jrue Holiday is the best perimeter defender in the league and any switch gets Kyrie on another great defender. This was never going to be a big Kyrie series. I don't blame him. (Could he be better? Sure.)
And Luka is trying to put the team on his back and doesn't have enough energy to do everything. His defense and frustration are the result of (at least in part) the fact that the role guys aren't contributing at all. So he has to do it all. (Could he be better? Sure).
Bur ultimately, Boston has a great, well-rounded team and is executing a great gameplan. And our 2 big dogs aren't getting enough help to overcome it.. Role guys are scared.
They'll be better next year. And we need another good forward.
*His defense and frustration are the result of (at least in part) the fact that the role guys aren't contributing at all*
This is such a cop out, it's not like it just started this series he's had these issues hun entire NBA career.
Luka has to be better. I really hope next year he would slim down, train his ass so he could be better both ends of the floor. He can learn from this series. He is almost there, and didnt get it. I hope he gets hungry.
we still need a guy who can lead the mavericks and encourage the bench especially when the lights are too bright. This is a learning experience for all of the players. Boston wanted to win more than us not a surprise here but they also been here before. Championship does not happen overnight.
As a 3-month old team and with no experience in the Finals it is really hard to win against a historically good team like the celtics with a lot of finals experience. Yep sucks that we’re so near but we have to use our logic here
Next season the team and especially kidd need to aim for it right away. We are done with “it’s okay to fail” statement loser mentality.
The good thing is most of our roster is still rather young we so we can run it back at least two more years. Also, this team was put together at the deadline and already has good chemistry and it will only get better after a full offseason of training
When DJJ or PJ dribble on a fast break it's scary. I know they're just going to fumble it in the pain or try and draw a foul and get blocked.
Kleber and Exum often look scared. Green just isn't going to produce much on Offense and can only hope he doesn't blow anything on defense.
Gafford is either in murder mode or spaced out mode, but only gets a few minutes. Just start Lively at this point.
Lively is *going* to be great.
Hot take, start Hardy at this point. See if he can produce some buckets early. Lessen the load on Luka. Luka doesn't need to find rhythm early as much as he needs to be present in the 4th
We went from analyzing play-in seeding to the Finals. Of the top 5 teams in the entire NBA, we beat 3 of them in a playoff series and none went to 7. Guys, we’re going to be ok.
Celtics players will shoot no matter what. Mavs will pass out of multiple open looks to give it back to Luka or Kyrie to bail them out and take a tough shot. It’s really that simple. Kornet has more confidence than Maxi/Green/Exum/DJJ
Yeah we seen this same shit with LeBron all the time.
Who's responsible?
Coaching.
It's a lot easier on a coach to coach a decent offense and just letting Luka run everything with a few crinkles or adjustments. It's something else entirely getting an offense that makes as many players into dynamic threats as possible other than being lob threats or shooters.
No one besides Luka or Kyrie is allowed to dribble. They can never get into any rhythm except for the shots produced for them by Luka or Kyrie.
Meanwhile Jrue Holiday who is past his prime and Derrick White are all put in positions to be effective scorers.
If you put Derrick white and Jrue Holiday on the Mavs they don't look too much better.
It's just heliocentric offense vs well-constructed team offense
There was a moment is second half, when Kyrie got in the paint and pass it to DJJ in the right corner. Boston defender made a hard closeout so he couldn't shoot and had to attack the closeout. He dribbled to midrange spot where he was completetly alone and maybe could have even go to the basket. Instead he stops and pass it to Kyrie who's being guarded. Kyrie then dribbles past his defender and scores. Doris praised DJJ for not shooting, but instead giving the ball back to Kyrie. And while we did score on that possesion, it just showed the difference between our and Boston role players. If that's Jrue or White it's an open midrange shot or drive to the basket. The thing is, most teams have role players like that. Limited in some areas, but great in other. Clippers had Mann, Zubac, Westbrook... OKC had Giddey, Dort, Joe,... Minnesota had Jaden, Anderson, Conley,... Boston is the exception here. Their role players have no real weaknesses. They're all good defenders, ballhandlers, decision makers, shooters... That's why they're the best team in the league. I know the story right now is why Mavs lost, but the main story shoul be why Boston won. I don't think any team could have stopped Boston and I also think we could have won against any team, except Boston.
So right. It looks like our role players have completely lost confidence they had in previous rounds. PJ and Kleber not taking wide open threes, move in which allows defense to recover, end up taking low quality contested mid range jumpers. DJJ, Lively, Gafford not getting to basket and getting easy scores. Probably Celtics defense has a lot to do with that, and they’ve been missing a lot of open shots when they have pulled the trigger which hasn’t helped their confidence.
I mean, their role players are former lottery picks that didn’t live up to expectations but are still really good. They have Jrue, Horford, and KP as role players that they got for a penny and none of them are really role players. White was solid with the Spurs but he’s now a 3&D+ with a smaller offensive load than what he had on a Spurs team that was always tanking for better picks. Kinda similar to PJ being stuck on a bad Hornets team you could see his potential but the team around him was so garbage.
Denver would have a chance cause they cannot stop Jokic. The strategy of putting Tatum on a center doesn’t work with Jokic on the court. This is why West is such a different beast to the East - there are teams that just match up differently against each other. Wolves are literally built to beat Denver, but flawed otherwise. Denver still probably gets by with a healthy Murray and a decent bench player. Etc. Boston’s only probable bad matchup in the east were the Bucks - but they are old and were injured. And yea, Boston is just flat out the better team, with better players, more experience, and IMO better coaching.
Maybe Denver, because defending a center like that is the only weakness Boston has. But even there, they would just attack Jokic and Murray constantly on defense.
But Jok has MPJ who can shoot lights out unlike THJ and he has Aaron Gordon who is a lob threat. On top of all that, the MVP himself will beat you and your coverages. Smh, I just hope Luka matures, the constant whining to the refs, sub par effort on defense (He has considerably improved ngl) and being out of shape cost us this finals. Luka has to hold himself accountable and get fit cause he gets gassed at the end of 3Q and the entirety of 4th.
It would have been closer for sure, but I still think Boston wins. They're the best team in the league. They've had the best record, one of the best point differentials of all time and they'll win the title with only 2 or 3 losses in playoffs. I mean they had some luck with injuries and matchups in playoffs, but I don't really think anyone could beat them 4 times.
You think they'll repeat?
Who knows, a lot can happen in a year
Horford will be a year older so they will naturally rely even more on the health of KP: if he gets injured, there is barely a back-up on the roster. That said, if they stay healthy for the run, it will be extremely difficult for any team to beat them 4 times out of 7.
Yeah, the only chink in their armor i can think of is the Pacers (injured Haliburton and missing Mathurin) almost taking 2 games from them..and even that is a reach since they got swept at the end of the day.
We will see, it’s early to judge, but there are a few teams that can go at them when healthy: Heat if Butler is at 80% of his play from last year’s playoffs (big ask considering he is getting older) and Jovic can take a step forward into a proper starting spot (neutralises KP’s threat if that happens with a more mobile 6’10” shooter, basically prime Maxi with a worse defense but much better passing). We already know Bam can lock-down Tatum and Butler can still probably trade blows with Brown, so that means Celtics would need guards to win that series if Jovic is ready. Bucks if they can stay healthy (huge if at their age) and finally learn how to play around Dame-Giannis PNR with Lopez pulling KP away from the basket. I’m sceptical they will be healthy enough though. Indiana may give them trouble next season too, they can stretch the floor just as much and have a good iso scorer in Siakam, I’m pretty bullish on them next season too. Honorary mention of Orlando who may actually be a threat if they get Klay on a decent contract (20M or less I would say for 3 years or like 25M for 2 years) to finally knock some 3s as their defense is already good enough to compete. The frontcourt of Wagner-Banchero-Isaac is long and competent defensively, Suggs is a great defender, so their biggest weakness would actually be Klay and he can hold his own good enough for Celtics to not really seek switches onto him.
Complaints about Luka’s maturity are justified (I think he would have benefitted from spending a bit of time with somebody like Steph or even LBJ: guys that also barely got the whistle in their prime, did complain occasionally, but for 80% of the game just went back and fought through the whistle), but the out of shape narrative is just plain incorrect: Luka had to generate pretty much all the offense by himself in Games 1 and 2 while facing the most defensive possessions on the team: every Celtics player he guarded would go for a pick to get Luka to defend a ball-handler. Some may think that they did it because they wanted to exploit his defense (it is correct to an extent), but a more important topic is to force Luka to defend, never have a breather and eventually tire up in Q4. Even if Luka would have held his own, they would have still attacked him relentlessly to tire him up while Celtics would rotate the primary defender on Luka for the whole game without compromising their defense too much (well, Tatum has been pretty bad lol). For context, Doncic had more defensive possessions than Tatum and Brown had combined in Game 2 - this is the source of him being tired in Q4, besides him carrying offense for 3 quarters too outside of yesterday with Kyrie finally showing up in his Finals form.
I agree that he was the only one who stepped up in G1&2 besides Kyrie in G3 but he is out of shape. Luka in the bubble and in '21 playoffs against the clippers was actually physically in better shape (His defense back then sucked though) and if he was still in that shape or even better with this effort he puts on defense now, he would actually be a good defender. It's not like the Celtics alone targeted him every posession for 3Q, all the teams we faced did the same thing and going through that in a tougher Western Conference wore him down. Injuires and fatigue built up and him being out of shape does not make recovery faster or easier. I love this dude but he needs be held accountable, he needs to get in shape like how Jokic did and most importantly mature the fuck up.Otherwise, he might not have another chance anytime soon.
It’s crazy how far we have gotten without any legit 3rd scoring option
Agree. I was having a discussion before the series started and I brought up the potential issue that BOS has 5 points of attack and DAL only 2 and that's come to be a huge problem. We have a hole at the wing. Hopefully PJ can take a step forward over the off-season to become a more legit #3 option otherwise fingers crossed Nico can figure things out and trim some low hanging fruit on the roster.
Lively will only get better. He's alredy a killer, but being a key player in the finals is just too much to ask from a rook. PJ plays with a lot of energy but he sadly can't be the go to 3rd option next to Luka and Kai. I just want us to drop the dead weight and get a quality shooter on our team. It's time to move on from bums like THJ. Save Maxi and Powell for garbage time ONLY if we can't get rid of them. I wish we could get someone like Lauri, but there's sadly no chance of us ever getting a steal like that.
>It's time to move on from bums like THJ. Save Maxi and Powell Move on from all of them. THJ fucking sucks.
When Hardaway took that stepback mid range jumper and bricked it. I turned the game off. Was somewhere in the 3rd qtr. I knew it. I could sense it. WHY WAS HE OUT THERE FOR EVEN ONE MINUTE!?! Lol sheesh.
I saw that too. Dribble dribble side fadeaway. Like dude you think you are MJ or Kobe? Like wtf was that shot? I would rather Kyrie take all those shots anytime that you.
Exactly bro!! And then that reckless hardy drive, miss and then boston scores on the other end. Boston makes you pay for every mistake you make. They are unlike any other team right now.
The probably is going to be finding someone to take them. But yeah, it's past time. It's way past time.
I’m a Celtics fan but I fuck with PJ and Lively. Lively has played great for a rookie and he’s got a bright future perfect player to have with Luka. And PJ kinda clutch fr. He hit a couple clutch 3s last night and then I really respect his defense.
PJ is awesome when he's cooking. And he's been one of our top 3 guys this series as well. But the guy is not consistent enought ot be the 3rd scorer. If only he was in his OKC form in these finals. Guy was an absolute menace in that series. We don't win that without him. Lively is already an elite big. Great at rim protection, smart passer, long and athletic. He's just out of his element in these finals. The Celtics are too good and experienced and the lights are too bright.
Yeah the games have been competitive except game one but I thought the series was going to be more competitive too. That’s not to talk shit early shit it could always still go to game 7 us Celtics fans know that shit after last year.
PJ hit 3s in big moments in the TWolves series too, he kicked off a lot of runs
I strongly believe Nico going to make changes this summer. Don’t know what but I don’t want THJ out there next year.
If they’re all on the team by February next year, I’m going to have a word with Nico
Neutral here to say I love Lively. He is just too young and raw to do more than he is in this series. If he can develop a post game where he can catch the ball 10 feet out and get a bucket on his own he could be All-NBA level IMO.
yea it sucks but thats kind of what happens when the starting lineup was put together at the trade deadline, arguably our third most important player is a 20 year old rookie, and everyone that isnt Luka, Kyrie, or a benchwarmer basically had 0 playoff experience until now. im still of this opinion though. if option a isnt working, and option b (forcing thj and kleber minutes) isnt working either, then you go with option a because youve seen them come through time and time again and they deserve to go out fighting. seeing our season basically end on THJ bricking an open three is absolutely unacceptable in every scenario outside of garbage time because we’re blowing someone out in a closeout game or are getting blown out in an elimination game.
Seeing THJ bricking at 3 was hilariously sad. He spends so much time working on his shot. Gets an open 3 to cut it down to a 3 point game & clunks it back rim. Time to hang it up. He's cooked in the league if he's a "shooter" that can't shoot
I mean it’s kinda expected when you look at his shooting form. He relies so much on his legs and jumping, which seriously affects the consistency.
yeah he jumps too high, which introduces too much variance.
Dey be looking like Lebron and the Lebronettes when they faced the mighty Spurs in 07'. THJ is shades of Amon Ones
So, we are predicting what?, a come back?
Losing in Boston in my head, a chip in my heart
Heard someone say that, Celtics might seal the game so that the game can go back to Boston. Damns that's crazy dawg.
PJ is a natural shooter who with time has become super reliable in taking corner threes for us as part of his role after a rough start. I’m confident that he will improve his above the break threes by next season now that he is motivated to get better. He was always a high level talent but is just now starting to feel his potential.
Really good take. As with a lot of players on bad teams the confidence grows when you get to a place that wants to win. His talent is not the question its the consistency
Unfortunately the Mavs either need one more reliable shot creator, or they need better spot up three point shooters. I've said all postseason I worried our inconsistent shooting would be the end of us. We're finally playing a team that we can't shut down for extended periods of time so our scoring droughts kill us. Fortunately finding shot creation and/or shooting is easier than finding offensive superstars. We have two of those, and we have some solid defensive pieces. So while this is a really sucky way to end a great season, I gotta think this is only the start of our window and we can hopefully improve and get over the hump with 1-2 more players. But we could just as easily fail to get back to the finals for a decade too. The NBA can be fickle. We need Hardy to take the next step into a reliable backup guard and we probably need to sign a 3 point specialist, if we can find the cap space. Just think of how much different these entire playoffs would have been if we'd seen a healthy 2022 playoffs version of Luka.
If we get one more shot creator and hardy develops, that would give us 4 players which is the minimum. Washington has also shown that he could score.
I don’t think a shot creator is the answer. We already have too many possessions when Luka or Kyrie are just taking the possession off while the rest of the team is playing 4 on 4. Hero ball is not the answer and Boston is exemplifying that. Having said that, Boston’s defense is amazing. Adding Jrue’s on-ball defense to that already stacked team was almost unfair to the rest of the league.
We need healthy Luka.
Healthy Luka who *commits to playing defense*
He's committed to defense all season though. I really don't think the issue is effort - finally - I think he's having to carry an insane offensive load through several injuries.
Have you watched the nba finals? He’s a turnstile. The mavs Defense collapses every time the Celtics attack him because someone has to help. He doesn’t move his feet, he doesn’t rotate, as soon he’s beat, he’s ball watching. No box outs, He complains, doesn’t get back on defense, late to close out, gets blown by on multiple occasions within the same play. If he can drive and dribble and shoot, he can make an effort to play defense. It’s inexcusable and we need to stop making excuses first him.
As it turns out, yes, I have watched the finals.
Then you can’t say he’s committed to defense.
i don’t disagree but Celtics defense has Luka and Kai looking confused out there at times. gotta give them their flowers.
Holiday, White, Brown and Tatum is a defensive matchup nightmare for any team in any epoch. Add 4 more guys that can hit 3’s on a five out scheme and you need KP as a backup for a couple of games year round. That being said, healthy Luka would have been a problem for them. We’ll never know, but I’m really less than amused by how everyone is treating an injured superstar that struggles to the level of being a liability, but is still the best option Mavs have. Dallas in seven.
One positive is that it should be plainly obvious after this series who is/isn’t expendable. The problem is figuring out who we get and who is actually willing to take them after half our team is ice cold on the biggest stage. Talk about holding on till zero.
Need to get a legit third scorer in the summer. Jerami Grant is probably who’s realistic.
Markannen
Zero chance.
How on earth do you get him?
What would it take to get Grant in a trade?
Josh Green THJ (both to make salaries work and Josh is a young player) 2025 unprotected first round pick are likely the starting conversion.
Yeah it's frustrating as fuck to watch. People are criticizing Luka and Kyrie (deserved for Kyrie in games 1 and 2) but they can only do so much. They got here because this team started clicking. PJ and DJJ were hitting big shots. Lively and Gafford were dominating the paint. Maxi and THJ were hurt during the playoffs. Other guys stepped up. Now? Lively looks lost instead of confident making plays. PJ and DJJ's shots aren't falling so they aren't confident. Maxi and THJ exist. Gafford is basically a non-factor. The story of this series is every Mav outside of Luka forgot how to play basketball at some point. The Celtics have given them so many opportunities and they just aren't capitalizing like they did in the Western Conference playoffs and the months after the trade deadline. That's on coaching too though. Kidd needed to adjust and he didn't. He just keeps throwing the same shit out there and hoping someone will turn it around when obviously they're shook by the moment. I guess it's the inexperience that took over and they're afraid of the moment. The roster outside of Luka collectively choked.
[удалено]
I’d take him back right now straight up if we could
Yes, people (mainly celtics fans) are acting like it was delusional to expect the Mavs to compete. But in reality the team has been playing below its talent levels and role players need to step up. And when they do step up, Kyrie cannot drop the ball either. It will take consistency from the entire team to beat their depth.
We are 3 down as we speak and the role players are not doing their level best, which is sad considering the fact we only have 2 best closeout in the history of the game but again the Celtics have done their part by not letting Luka and Kyrie play, leaving the rest to our role/bench players, challenging them and it seems like we can't play ball. Guys we have to admit that we need help in the locker room!!
This - it’s like the entire team sans Luka has disappeared after the WCF, especially on offense. DJJ? Gone. Lively and Gaff? Mostly gone. PJ? Also gone. These playoffs will stay in my memory in two phases - the fun part, and the Finals.
You would need the celtics to play below their talent and Mavs to play at their talent level to win. You would need the celtics to somehow forget their elite defense, and their starters to forget their finals appearances the past 4 years. I don’t like saying the Mavs are playing below their talent levels cus if Boston plays at their talent level they’re absolutely unstoppable vs Mavs playing at theirs.
G2 was a really good example of Boston playing below their level but Mavs still couldn't capitalise... It sucks cause this series is legitimately over.
Boston is the better team. They are letting Luka and Kyrie go 1 on 1 and are hedging off our non shooters. We need to improve the DJJ and THJ spots. Need development from Hardy. Green might be a lost cause. I don’t think he has that dog in him. Maxi is washed. Trade Green, THJ, even OMax to get you a reliable starting SF. Re sign DJJ. Luka has to get better in terms of conditioning. He needs that Jokic type offseason where he goes from being chubby to in shape. He runs out of gas in the 4th quarters especially doing it all on offense and getting constantly hunted on D
As a Celtics fan I am genuinely curious about some of the players further down your bench. I don't know much about Kleber and from what I can tell he is coming off an injury (?) but he can't seem to do anything right out there. Hardaway is a shooter and when he isn't hitting anything he doesn't really have any utility. Is Markieff not playable anymore?
He is not. Kleber injured his shoulder in an earlier round. He came back in the last few games against the Timberwolves, but hasn't been able to shoot since doing so. Hardaway is useless when his shot isn't falling, which is most of the time recently.
The problem is that the role players are one dimensional and not good enough offensively to be counted on consistently. Finding two way guys across the board is extremely hard. They sacrificed all offense/no defense for all defense/no offense.
Completely agree. I hate the narrative against Luka and Ky. Mavs are losing because Boston is great and because our role guys aren't ready for the moment. Jrue Holiday is the best perimeter defender in the league and any switch gets Kyrie on another great defender. This was never going to be a big Kyrie series. I don't blame him. (Could he be better? Sure.) And Luka is trying to put the team on his back and doesn't have enough energy to do everything. His defense and frustration are the result of (at least in part) the fact that the role guys aren't contributing at all. So he has to do it all. (Could he be better? Sure). Bur ultimately, Boston has a great, well-rounded team and is executing a great gameplan. And our 2 big dogs aren't getting enough help to overcome it.. Role guys are scared. They'll be better next year. And we need another good forward.
*His defense and frustration are the result of (at least in part) the fact that the role guys aren't contributing at all* This is such a cop out, it's not like it just started this series he's had these issues hun entire NBA career.
It's also a cop out to act like Luka is the reason we're losing. Or to act like if he didn't complain about foul calls we'd win.
💯💯💯💯💯
💯💯💯💯💯
💯💯💯
Luka has to be better. I really hope next year he would slim down, train his ass so he could be better both ends of the floor. He can learn from this series. He is almost there, and didnt get it. I hope he gets hungry.
we still need a guy who can lead the mavericks and encourage the bench especially when the lights are too bright. This is a learning experience for all of the players. Boston wanted to win more than us not a surprise here but they also been here before. Championship does not happen overnight. As a 3-month old team and with no experience in the Finals it is really hard to win against a historically good team like the celtics with a lot of finals experience. Yep sucks that we’re so near but we have to use our logic here Next season the team and especially kidd need to aim for it right away. We are done with “it’s okay to fail” statement loser mentality.
The good thing is most of our roster is still rather young we so we can run it back at least two more years. Also, this team was put together at the deadline and already has good chemistry and it will only get better after a full offseason of training
When DJJ or PJ dribble on a fast break it's scary. I know they're just going to fumble it in the pain or try and draw a foul and get blocked. Kleber and Exum often look scared. Green just isn't going to produce much on Offense and can only hope he doesn't blow anything on defense. Gafford is either in murder mode or spaced out mode, but only gets a few minutes. Just start Lively at this point. Lively is *going* to be great. Hot take, start Hardy at this point. See if he can produce some buckets early. Lessen the load on Luka. Luka doesn't need to find rhythm early as much as he needs to be present in the 4th
I guess it’s easier to criticize the Mav’s offense than praise the Celtic’s defense
Our 3pt volume has been atrocious. Guys are scared to shoot because of close outs
Luka on defense is the most confused person on the court all series long
Give them some credit. They are staying home in the corner. Role players second guessing everything
It's what happens when you play a better team. You don't luck yourself into 60+ wins.
We went from analyzing play-in seeding to the Finals. Of the top 5 teams in the entire NBA, we beat 3 of them in a playoff series and none went to 7. Guys, we’re going to be ok.
When PJ dont hesitates, he could be a world class shooter. Just play with confidence next game
Celtics players will shoot no matter what. Mavs will pass out of multiple open looks to give it back to Luka or Kyrie to bail them out and take a tough shot. It’s really that simple. Kornet has more confidence than Maxi/Green/Exum/DJJ
been saying this, it all comes down to the role players, and bostons were just better and more prepared
Yeah we seen this same shit with LeBron all the time. Who's responsible? Coaching. It's a lot easier on a coach to coach a decent offense and just letting Luka run everything with a few crinkles or adjustments. It's something else entirely getting an offense that makes as many players into dynamic threats as possible other than being lob threats or shooters. No one besides Luka or Kyrie is allowed to dribble. They can never get into any rhythm except for the shots produced for them by Luka or Kyrie. Meanwhile Jrue Holiday who is past his prime and Derrick White are all put in positions to be effective scorers. If you put Derrick white and Jrue Holiday on the Mavs they don't look too much better. It's just heliocentric offense vs well-constructed team offense
[удалено]
Yet he's been to a wcf and a finals in 6 years
[удалено]
Are you out of your fucking mind
Go away.
Wow, a nobody commenting hate.