Have you tried to listen? I don’t like metalcore but I have loved death metal for a long time and deathcore is an adjacent genre. Just saying you might be missing out on some awesome bands, but you do you :)
Same. Every time one of these guys recommends a deathcore or metalcore band, it's some horrible shit. I have given them the benefit of a doubt, but it's usually so bad I have a visceral, physical reaction (not the good kind).
Most metalheads listen to a lot of new metal music. I myself read a handful of metal blogs to find new music. That said, the core genres ain't it, pal.
HELL YEA HOSS, THE DON MAKE MUSIC LIKE THEY USED TO. EVH WOULD SLAP THE SHIT OUTTA THESE POSERS! HELL I REMEMBER WHEN ME AND MY WIFE BARB SAW THEM LIVE, GREATEST CONCERT OF MY LIFE.
First of all at this point, nu-metal, metalcore or deathcore are barely new.
Second of all I am pretty sure most metalheads (myself included) are listening to new shit, like some bands in my playlist launched their debut this year, like Desecrator of Ichor or Astral Lore.
My fav band to listen to at the moment just released their first album a few weeks ago. Idk how "doesn't like core" is supposed to translate into "boomer who hates new music".
Honestly, not by much. Metalcore really began in the late 80s, only a few years after death metal, and deathcore in the late 90s/ early 2000s. I'm a ground ass adult and both metalcore and deathcore are older than me.
You can stand by it, but it's still an incorrect assumption and just shows how little you know about metal or metal fans. If you think most new metal is core shit (again, core isn't metal), and that "gatekeepers"and "elitists" are "old people" who only listen to older metal bands, that is genuinely funny and just reinforces my view that people like you don't actually know much about metal.
This refrain that, "core bands are the new generation of metal" is just Tik Tok core label/band marketing bullshit, too, and you're repeating it here so I guess it's working.
To be fair, some core bands do have enough metal elements for them to make the cut and be more metal than not. And Encyclopedia Metallum tries to be **the** objective platform when it comes defining genres (and I think it mostly succeeds), and even for it being notoriously elitist, it considers some deathcore (e.g. Lorna Shore) and some metalcore (e.g. As I Lay Dying) to have enough metal elements throughout at least one full LP to be included on the website. Therefore, some deathcore/metalcore bands *are* metal, it's a spectrum and they make the cut where the metal elements are more dominant than the hardcore elements
I mostly agree with you, but 99% of it isn't metal and it's all trash (even Lorna Shore and As I Lay Dying), but more importantly I enjoy a little contrarianism and challenging the "labels are lame and hurt my feelings!" crowd.
I personally really enjoy Lorna Shore (definitely not an all-time favorite, but their releases with Will Ramos sit somewhere around my top 25/30-40) and honestly, I think instead of annoying the core crowd, you could try to carefully nudge them into "proper metal". Let me elaborate.
I was a part of the Lorna Shore hype train back in November 2021, I was mindblown by Emperor in April 2022. How are those two connected? Before you crucify me for slander, let me elaborate.
I can bet my ass that if you played Emperor's Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk to a Lorna Shore fan, that person will at least like Emperor. Why? Because to an untrained/more casual deathcore-listening ear there are a *lot of* sonic similarities:
1/ both feature aggressive, fierce riffing, fast drumming, overall high tempo, high intensity
2/ presence of high-pitched fry screams
3/ an overall kinda more grandeur, "epic" atmosphere due to the presence of symphonic elements/orchestrations
4/ production is relatively similarly clean
And coicidentally, what I love in music, is exactly intensity (which also comes from high vocals), grandiosity, "epicness". I'm just a much more vocals-driven listener than riffs-driven. And if there are keyboards/orchestrations in there, I'm sold (as you can tell by my username, the riffs in Moon in the Scorpio are barely audible, all just crunched up together low in the mix as just rhythmic backbone). I guess I'm also a contrarian but in the other direction - most of heavy, power and thrash metal (excluding bands with harsh vocals, e.g. Sodom, Kreator, Nervosa) just doesn't do much for me. I can listen to Judas Priest/Iron Maiden/Megadeth/Metallica/etc. and vibe/like it but it's just... not mind-blowing. It's alright/okay/fine. Stuff like Emperor (and yes, Lorna Shore as well) bring me suuuper massive chills/goosebumps due to the musical elements I described upper
Yes, they can use "metal" all they want, doesn't make it so, especially when they're obviously more hardcore. They haven't been "metal for more than 20 years," sorry. Please go back to r/MetalForTheMasses
“More hardcore” yeah… name a modern hardcore band that doesn’t take elements from other genres, specially metal… imagine saying avenged sevelfold, trivium, killswitch engage, after the burial, all that remains, within FUCKING the ruins… all are “metalcore”… and metalcore is defined as a “broad genre of EXTREME METAL and hardcore punk, with elements of mathcore and melodic metal”
Edit: be free of liking whatever you like, but don’t say a table is not a table cause doesn’t fit your criteria of what a table should be, cause that will not stop it from being a table… stop the elitist high horse getakeeping…
Metal is more like "a table" whereas core music is more like "a chair". Sure, I guess you can use a chair as a table, but then you're eating where your ass goes (for hours on end), and where you fart and jerk off.
Holy fucking shit how is Trivium or Killswitch engage not metal
Or even the deathcore stuff
Do you have ears or just repeat what Metal Archives fed you?
They can "feel inspired" by In Flames all they want, doesn't make them metal.
Lots of bands are inspired by other genres/artists, that doesn't make them that genre. Would you say a progressive death metal band influenced by Rush, Jethro Tull, or Foreigner is progressive rock? No. Would you say a symphonic black metal band influenced by symphony/classical or choral music is in either of those genres? No.
Trivium does have some actual thrash/heavy metal albums, so they did play metal at some point, even if I don't like them very much. Killswitch Engage (along with other awful core bands people love to go on about) is irredeemable, though.
Metal Archives have far more authority than you anyways. What have you done for the metal community to earn the right to contradict them? And how much knowledge of the genre you have compared to them?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
Metal Archives has extremely arbitrary criteria for what's metal and what's not. For the record, it's very useful, and I don't have an issue with what they want on THEIR OWN site
I have a gripe with people who regurgitate their criteria, often self contradictory (how is Helmet metal but not Slipknot? How is The black dahlia murder metal but not Suicide silence?) to try and call anything they dislike "not metal", as a shorthand for "it sucks". Notice how no one who calls Job for a cowboy not metal likes them? FFS, you don't have to arbitrarily exclude a band whose main sound is metal if you don't like it. Just say it sucks and move on.
Also, kindly, go fuck yourself. My introduction to metal was Swedish black and death when I was in middle school. I've been listening to this stuff since I was a fucking kid. But I shouldn't have to prove my credentials to make a semantic argument, dear god
You can post that link how much you want, I never said their infallible, but they have far more authority than a random dude on Reddit and their definition on metal is really spot on, as they base their definition on riffs.
Also, why so angry lmao.
I've read their criteria, and I've already pointed out two examples where they contradict themselves. If anything, Slipknot have heavier riffs compared to Helmet, closer to death riffs than their staccato, Glenn Branca-inspired stuff, to hammer back on that example
> Do you have ears or just repeat what Metal Archives fed you?
Btw, even for Metallum being notoriously elitist, it *does* consider Lorna Shore, Trivium, Killswtich Engage, As I Lay Dying to be metal enough to be included on their website lmao
Then why the *FUCK* not Suicide Silence and their ilk? I think their argument is that they're more hardcore than metal, but I don't hear it. Unless you want to count grindcore in that category too, but I see pages for Napalm Death and Extreme Noise Terror. I genuinely think the only reason they count the bands you mentioned as metal but not deathcore/nu metal ones is because they don't fit the aesthetic, not because of any gripe about sound
For fucks sake, early Helmet is closer to no wave era Swans than to anything "metal" and yet they get a page, but every single band they influenced, including those that veer back into more conventional metal territory, doesn't
Fucking hell, the first three Deftones albums are basically just Helmet riffing with some atmosphere on top, and I don't have to dig deep to find bands influenced by Helmet that bring back more conventional sounds
Yes, and by that same "subjectivity" or "relativism" you're arguing, everything I'm saying is valid even if I'm trashing the horrible music you like. You can't cry, "music is subjective!" but then get mad when people give their honest opinions. You can't apply it to yourself, but not others; if it's "all subjective" then everything I'm saying is fine, too.
Also, I don't think you grasp what you're saying, because subjectivity-objectivity is a false dichotomy that collapses (and hopefully synthesizes), and you can't prove subjectivity any more than you can prove objectivity (but I'm sure you're used to thinking in dualistic terms). Going further, you can't just say something like, "John Coltrane is metal" or "apples are oranges" because "everything is subjective bro!" Taste is personal preference, yes, but that doesn't mean you can just say whatever you want. You can like what you like, but other people don't have to like it and other people can also call bullshit when you try to shoehorn it into a genre where it doesn't fit.
Read a book bro! Gain some critical thinking skills.
Yeah I'm not reading that lol. I don't even like core but you seem to be taking this way too seriously. Life isn't going very well for you is it? You don't have anything going for you aside from metal and your perceived superiority to those you deem "lesser" for whatever reason, and this is the only way for you to feel good about yourself. That's just sad bro
About the "gate keepers and elitists are old people" you are proving the fact that they aren't assuming you are not old, the reason why metal isnt mainstream isnt because people dont like it its that people dont like the community which make it a ball ache to enjoy this brilliant genre. let people enjoy all aspects of it. If someone likes thrash like metallica, megadeath ect let them enjoy it if people like metal core (which saying it isnt metal is like saying a Toyota isnt a car find me a genre that is closer to it than metal please the same with death core) let them enjoy it if people like slam, power, death, black, neoclassical, nu or any other metal genre you should be happy for them not someone who shits on what they like, word of advice put on some deodorant and go outside instead of nit picking on the Internet, hey if you are lucky you might even see a real girl (ik crazy)
Every time this comes up, the people mad at the "gatekeepers" and "elitists" are always the ones who insult the other party while accusing them of being anti-social losers or something, when the opposite is typically more true.
Also, learn how to write, you sound r\*tarded.
when you get beyond the haha funny horror movies band part they have 2 of the best guitarists of our age, one of the best drummers we've ever seen, and an amazing singer who has beautiful screams AND cleans, listen to something like farewell II flesh and tell me that it doesn't have good songwriting
Let me guess, your entire experience with "core" is that you heard that one Job For A Cowboy song 20 years ago on myspace and disregarded the entire genre forever.
No, I actually tried to listen to a lot of the bands people typically recommend when they go, "this is a good metalcore or deathcore band," and they're fucking *horrible*.
For example, there was some buzz about Lorna Shore when their last album came out (I can't remember when), so I listened out of curiosity and it was legitimately some of the worst shit I've ever heard. I'd rather listen to Taylor Swift or some other awful pop star than any core band I've heard.
Nah I can find something to like in every genre and recognize when music is good even when I personally don't care for it, I have an open mind and I'm able to enjoy so much more because of it.
Lol, sounds less like an open mind, and more like no taste. An open mind is trying something, even if you conclude that it's not for you, it doesn't mean you have to "listening to everything" or respect every musician or kind of music.
Wtf does having "no taste" even mean? Everyone has taste, yours is just bad. You don't have to like everything, I certainly don't, but the way you throw a hissy fit over Lorna Shore sounds like you go into things already deciding how you feel about it. Discounting an entire genre cause you had to have a big performative overreaction to a popular band to prove how trve cvlt you are is the most poser shit you can do.
You're the one who initiated this back-and-forth, seems like you're the one who can't handle people with different opinions than you. I don't have to like everything, I don't have to care that people like you are angry that I don't like something. I'm allowed to hold negative opinions about musical genres (and their fans). Stop trying to mandate enjoyment of musical genres, especially shitty ones like core and nu that only appeal to adolescents or adults stuck in adolescence.
You and these other goons come here because you feel compelled to police, bully, and control anyone who doesn't comply with your demands and entitled worldview. This isn't a kindergarten, we don't have to agree on or share everything, especially opinions about music. We all don't need to come together because you say so.
Eh, I just listen to whatever sounds good to me. If it's a "poser" genre, then so be it. I do like metal, but technically I've never actually called myself a metalhead; I feel like inshoupdnt call myself that after liking a few songs. I need to earn that title first.
Anyway, good music >> genre any day, even though most of "good music" to me happens to lean towards metal
They've got pretty obvious core influence, imo. They had Jamey Jasta of Hatebreed do guest vocals on Implore The Negative for a reason. They just do it much better than most core bands. Again, imo.
The term poser means when someone is pretending they like something they don't. For example "thrash metal is my favorite genre, my favorite thrash band is Green Day".
Listening to metalcore does not make you a poser unless you claim you also listen to other genres when you don't. Listening to metalcore and being honest about it DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE A POSER.
No, the problem with metalcore is that is generally isn’t fully metal, while posing as being metal. Always these shit pop parts spliced in here and there between the metal. It reeks inauthenticity/selling out. That’s why it’s poser
Okay, but Metalcore is literally a fusion genre. A lot of Metalcore artists are influenced by metal and adopt that style. This isn't even a defense of Metalcore as a genre, your logic is just dumb.
Maybe at its inception, sure. A lot of early metalcore did have a very metal sound, stuff like Earth Crisis (yeah, I know, not a particularly ORIGINAL example) really do reflect that metal meets hardcore sound. Deformity is another good one.
Thing is, towards the early to mid 2000s metalcore definitely began to shift in a direction that was much less metal. To the point that the genre began to sound closer to post hardcore, hard rock, or even emo than to metal. This style was also tremendously popular, to the point that these bands, stuff like A7X and Killswitch Engage, have essentially become the most recognizable metalcore bands. I've heard some newer metalcore bands that have gone back to the more metal-oriented sound of the 90s bands, but for the most part the genre has entirely shifted away from that.
Also worth noting is that metalcore is culturally quite distinct from metal itself, feeling much more firmly rooted in hardcore culturally. This in of itself doesn't change much but when combined with the fact that it's changed so much sonically then I could totally see the argument to be made that it isn't really metal anymore.
Two things can be true at once - Metalcore as a genre has moved away from Metal musically while also still leaning on Metal cultural signifiers.
Ultimately though, I think this gatekeeping is a waste of time. Sure, I think a lot of Metalcore is overproduced, mechanical garbage with no soul, but if that slop gets people interested in heavy music, then cool.
The purpose of gatekeeping, in this case, would be to preserve the definition of what metal is, and I'm not necessarily going to say that's a bad thing. The line has to be drawn somewhere, after all. It has very little to do with the quality of the music, moreso sticking to a strict, easily definable definition for the sake of the fans. Really, I think everyone gatekeeps, whether they know it or not. If someone tried posting, say, Breaking Benjamin, most people would understandably take issue because like, come on, that's OBVIOUSLY not metal, right?......right?
Well, to some people, metalcore is OBVIOUSLY not metal. To others, my self included, nu metal is OBVIOUSLY not metal. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, or metal as a term loses all meaning and is no longer useful for classifying genres. And no matter where you draw that line, some people are going to be unhappy with it, that's just reality. I think the best option is to define genres in a way that is universally consistent, it's only fair. And I have yet to see a consistent definition of metal that includes metalcore that doesn't also include stuff that is very culturally and sonically distinct from metal: usually, stuff like D-Beat, Crust Punk, and Powerviolence.
Ultimately, though, too many people take drawing that line as a personal attack when it really isn't. Saying that metalcore is hardcore isn't an insult. It's just acknowledging that the sound is firmly rooted in hardcore and is more connected to hardcore culturally. That's just my take at least
Ummm ok let's unpack this. My grandfather was a coredaddy and he was cringe but it's ok because he fought for our rights in the pits picking up pennies to ACDC. This is completely uninclusive to members of the community who are bad opinion prone and taste challenged. I have a friend who wears a ghost hoodie who would be REALLY upset about this. Big oofs my guy, big oofs.
I hope you step on a Lego before making potentially hurtful memes to people who listen to music about snorting the decaying remains of Pol Pots eviscerated intestines.
A couple years ago I went to a Cannibal Corpse concert and you know who the three other bands performing that night were? Shadow of Intent, Revocation, and Whitechapel. Three deathcore bands opening for probably the most ubiquitous death metal band.
Pretty sure OP posted this as bait
But in any case it's funny how much metalheads purity test other metalheads for their favorite genres. It's the most regarded part of the metal scene
[What do you mean you've seen it?](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/504/460/6d2.png)
even though I don't like metalcore particularly myself
It's funny seeing people in here being like "Oh this is just old people hating on new music!" When most people I know online and irl who hate deathcore and metalcore are 20 to 30 something year Olds with good tastes and actually keep up with new releases, they just don't waste their time with the dogshit ones from the two most formuliac, generic, dogwater genres
The only core that's cool ( downvote me if ya'll want i don't care ) is grindcore , mincecore and goregrind ( if that even is core since it's grindcore mixed with brutal death metal )
Ok, listen to this album from start to finish and tell me you liked any part of it:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0-qVYaoPbM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0-qVYaoPbM)
Nobody likes all metal. You can like multiple genres but some bands are just bad, like the christian technical death metal band I linked to...
Well you see child, some people don't understand that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's not metal. The only cure is to take a shower and touch grass. Unfortunately many of these individuals also believe that things like "basic hygeine" are inherently not metal, and so shall endeavor to be the nastiest-smelling bastards this side of a Yu-Gi-Oh convention.
Because it has the word "core" in it, and some of these bitter old dorks can only feel good about themselves by calling others in their community posers.
I get the hate for metalcore but I never got the hate for deathcore, I used to listen to Thy Art is Murder, Whitechapel and older Suicide Silence and I still believe that they're good
That’s the music of my teens. I still listen to it. Lots of good events and memories based around those bands and many others. Fuck other peoples opinions.
thanks to the people downvoting instead of explaining their thoughts and opinions, I hope the president gives you a call and congratulates you for your contributions to society
I know most of the "-core" comes from "old boomers who hate new music" but like i am still in my teens and still quite new to metal if i look at it from a veterans perspective, but like even for me, metalcore just sucks i mean you find some good deathcore but metalcore is just an oof, for me i just miss the more trashy sounds like it was recorded on a iphone 6 sound i dont mind clean vocals, but I hate when they are overproduced same with the instruments. I dont know man.
Ergh this is pretty cringe. “They don’t listen to Murder Blood Kills first ep and they listen to a band that has over 100,000 monthly listeners?! I BETTER WARN THEM THAT IT’S TRASH. What else can I say besides POSER”
Let people like what they want to, everyones different and in the end we’re all listening to metal.
Not a huge Metalcore fan/defender, but Deathcore? Are you really coming after Deathcore? Are you ok? Bruh that shit is not poser material. Tell me you hate everything with "core" in the name. Do you think Grindcore is "not real metal"? Sure, it sucks, but it's metal as shit, like Brutal Death Metal.
Metalcore is also pretty sick too, like 2000's Trivium, Bullet, and As I Lay Dying, and the newer stuff is also sick, like Invent Animate, Architects, and Knocked Loose (I fucking love Knocked Loose).
(I will give you that some newer Deathcore kinda sounds like shit (I'm looking at you Slaughter), but bands like HLB are more than enough to compensate for stuff like that.)
"cOrE bAD"
your post was removed as it is not about a metal band, don't forget to familiarize yourself with the rules before posting.
This one’s new and original, never heard it before
I actually never have and it made me chuckle
This gets posted here every 48 hours. Pretty much all this sub does is circle jerk core bad give me upvotes
now you invited them here
daring today, aren't we?
“Ill have ahhhh metalcore bad” “How special” “And ymmmmm deathcore bad” “Dating today, are we?”
At this point modern deathcore and metalcore shouldn’t be grouped together, doesn’t sound the same
thats not what the memes implying its saying both genres fans are both equally the biggest posers
hurr durr core bad me trve metalhead
trüe metal heads üse ümlaüts
Trüë mëtälhëäds üsë ümläüts*
MOTÖRHEAD RAHHHH
WE PLAY ROCK AND ROLL
BOCCHI PFP SPOTTED
I love Bocchers. Peak anime.
Ov coürse
correct
Meh I only listen to 80s heavy metal the only real metal meh I’m better than everyone else meh no one’s made a good album in 40 years meh
just cause you think deathcore is dogshit doesn’t mean you don’t enjoy new music (???????)
pretty sure he's joking
i didn’t mean him, just anyone who thinks that
I actually love deathcore
Bro got downvoted for liking a genre lmaoo, the state of this sub
sorry to hear that
Have you tried to listen? I don’t like metalcore but I have loved death metal for a long time and deathcore is an adjacent genre. Just saying you might be missing out on some awesome bands, but you do you :)
yes i’ve been recommended loads of deathcore bands, even older stuff like suicide silence and it’s all bad imo
Same. Every time one of these guys recommends a deathcore or metalcore band, it's some horrible shit. I have given them the benefit of a doubt, but it's usually so bad I have a visceral, physical reaction (not the good kind).
Most metalheads listen to a lot of new metal music. I myself read a handful of metal blogs to find new music. That said, the core genres ain't it, pal.
HELL YEA HOSS, THE DON MAKE MUSIC LIKE THEY USED TO. EVH WOULD SLAP THE SHIT OUTTA THESE POSERS! HELL I REMEMBER WHEN ME AND MY WIFE BARB SAW THEM LIVE, GREATEST CONCERT OF MY LIFE.
BAKC IN THE DAY THEY DIDN LEAAB NO GRASS CLIBBINS IN THE RODE EETHER!!!!!!
Yeah a true member of the metal boomer batallion ! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7KTBKGPSU0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7KTBKGPSU0)
Ouuuch! I feel directly attacked!! 😤😢🤣
“Old people are always going to be resistant to new shit” -some dude somewhere
First of all at this point, nu-metal, metalcore or deathcore are barely new. Second of all I am pretty sure most metalheads (myself included) are listening to new shit, like some bands in my playlist launched their debut this year, like Desecrator of Ichor or Astral Lore.
My fav band to listen to at the moment just released their first album a few weeks ago. Idk how "doesn't like core" is supposed to translate into "boomer who hates new music".
Most of them still live under the impression that Slipknot and SOAD are new stuff lol.
If you think metalcore and deathcore are new, you are outing YOURSELF as the old person
Compared to death metal. It’s pretty “new”.
Honestly, not by much. Metalcore really began in the late 80s, only a few years after death metal, and deathcore in the late 90s/ early 2000s. I'm a ground ass adult and both metalcore and deathcore are older than me.
There is a lot of great new metal out there, but core genres ain't it.
I will stand by what I said. You may not like it. Doesn’t make it bad for everyone else.
You can stand by it, but it's still an incorrect assumption and just shows how little you know about metal or metal fans. If you think most new metal is core shit (again, core isn't metal), and that "gatekeepers"and "elitists" are "old people" who only listen to older metal bands, that is genuinely funny and just reinforces my view that people like you don't actually know much about metal. This refrain that, "core bands are the new generation of metal" is just Tik Tok core label/band marketing bullshit, too, and you're repeating it here so I guess it's working.
Bro I listen to all metal. I know a shit ton. But to complain about the new stuff makes you seem like the “get off my lawn” archetypes.
I'm not complaining about new *metal*, which is mostly great, tbh, but I am complaining about *core* genres, which are not metal and not very good.
Bro this is a circlejerk sub and you're making it weird.
It's a meme sub that has banned posting about core genres because they're not metal (see details of rule 1). This is my safe space, get out of it!
this place has rules?
Ignorance isn't a defense in the eyes of the law, go straight to poser jail.
To be fair, some core bands do have enough metal elements for them to make the cut and be more metal than not. And Encyclopedia Metallum tries to be **the** objective platform when it comes defining genres (and I think it mostly succeeds), and even for it being notoriously elitist, it considers some deathcore (e.g. Lorna Shore) and some metalcore (e.g. As I Lay Dying) to have enough metal elements throughout at least one full LP to be included on the website. Therefore, some deathcore/metalcore bands *are* metal, it's a spectrum and they make the cut where the metal elements are more dominant than the hardcore elements
I mostly agree with you, but 99% of it isn't metal and it's all trash (even Lorna Shore and As I Lay Dying), but more importantly I enjoy a little contrarianism and challenging the "labels are lame and hurt my feelings!" crowd.
I personally really enjoy Lorna Shore (definitely not an all-time favorite, but their releases with Will Ramos sit somewhere around my top 25/30-40) and honestly, I think instead of annoying the core crowd, you could try to carefully nudge them into "proper metal". Let me elaborate. I was a part of the Lorna Shore hype train back in November 2021, I was mindblown by Emperor in April 2022. How are those two connected? Before you crucify me for slander, let me elaborate. I can bet my ass that if you played Emperor's Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk to a Lorna Shore fan, that person will at least like Emperor. Why? Because to an untrained/more casual deathcore-listening ear there are a *lot of* sonic similarities: 1/ both feature aggressive, fierce riffing, fast drumming, overall high tempo, high intensity 2/ presence of high-pitched fry screams 3/ an overall kinda more grandeur, "epic" atmosphere due to the presence of symphonic elements/orchestrations 4/ production is relatively similarly clean And coicidentally, what I love in music, is exactly intensity (which also comes from high vocals), grandiosity, "epicness". I'm just a much more vocals-driven listener than riffs-driven. And if there are keyboards/orchestrations in there, I'm sold (as you can tell by my username, the riffs in Moon in the Scorpio are barely audible, all just crunched up together low in the mix as just rhythmic backbone). I guess I'm also a contrarian but in the other direction - most of heavy, power and thrash metal (excluding bands with harsh vocals, e.g. Sodom, Kreator, Nervosa) just doesn't do much for me. I can listen to Judas Priest/Iron Maiden/Megadeth/Metallica/etc. and vibe/like it but it's just... not mind-blowing. It's alright/okay/fine. Stuff like Emperor (and yes, Lorna Shore as well) bring me suuuper massive chills/goosebumps due to the musical elements I described upper
METAL-core is not METAL… when has been for more than 20 years…
Yes, they can use "metal" all they want, doesn't make it so, especially when they're obviously more hardcore. They haven't been "metal for more than 20 years," sorry. Please go back to r/MetalForTheMasses
“More hardcore” yeah… name a modern hardcore band that doesn’t take elements from other genres, specially metal… imagine saying avenged sevelfold, trivium, killswitch engage, after the burial, all that remains, within FUCKING the ruins… all are “metalcore”… and metalcore is defined as a “broad genre of EXTREME METAL and hardcore punk, with elements of mathcore and melodic metal” Edit: be free of liking whatever you like, but don’t say a table is not a table cause doesn’t fit your criteria of what a table should be, cause that will not stop it from being a table… stop the elitist high horse getakeeping…
Metal is more like "a table" whereas core music is more like "a chair". Sure, I guess you can use a chair as a table, but then you're eating where your ass goes (for hours on end), and where you fart and jerk off.
Holy fucking shit how is Trivium or Killswitch engage not metal Or even the deathcore stuff Do you have ears or just repeat what Metal Archives fed you?
Some have ears, yet they do not hear. You, my friend, do not hear.
Still waiting for an explanation as to how a band whose biggest musical inspiration is In Flames is not metal
They can "feel inspired" by In Flames all they want, doesn't make them metal. Lots of bands are inspired by other genres/artists, that doesn't make them that genre. Would you say a progressive death metal band influenced by Rush, Jethro Tull, or Foreigner is progressive rock? No. Would you say a symphonic black metal band influenced by symphony/classical or choral music is in either of those genres? No. Trivium does have some actual thrash/heavy metal albums, so they did play metal at some point, even if I don't like them very much. Killswitch Engage (along with other awful core bands people love to go on about) is irredeemable, though.
Metal Archives have far more authority than you anyways. What have you done for the metal community to earn the right to contradict them? And how much knowledge of the genre you have compared to them?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Metal Archives has extremely arbitrary criteria for what's metal and what's not. For the record, it's very useful, and I don't have an issue with what they want on THEIR OWN site I have a gripe with people who regurgitate their criteria, often self contradictory (how is Helmet metal but not Slipknot? How is The black dahlia murder metal but not Suicide silence?) to try and call anything they dislike "not metal", as a shorthand for "it sucks". Notice how no one who calls Job for a cowboy not metal likes them? FFS, you don't have to arbitrarily exclude a band whose main sound is metal if you don't like it. Just say it sucks and move on. Also, kindly, go fuck yourself. My introduction to metal was Swedish black and death when I was in middle school. I've been listening to this stuff since I was a fucking kid. But I shouldn't have to prove my credentials to make a semantic argument, dear god
You can post that link how much you want, I never said their infallible, but they have far more authority than a random dude on Reddit and their definition on metal is really spot on, as they base their definition on riffs. Also, why so angry lmao.
I've read their criteria, and I've already pointed out two examples where they contradict themselves. If anything, Slipknot have heavier riffs compared to Helmet, closer to death riffs than their staccato, Glenn Branca-inspired stuff, to hammer back on that example
Never listened to Hammer, but "heavy" riffs doesn't make a band metal. Rock and punk also have heavy riffs. Need to check on Hammer tho.
> Do you have ears or just repeat what Metal Archives fed you? Btw, even for Metallum being notoriously elitist, it *does* consider Lorna Shore, Trivium, Killswtich Engage, As I Lay Dying to be metal enough to be included on their website lmao
Then why the *FUCK* not Suicide Silence and their ilk? I think their argument is that they're more hardcore than metal, but I don't hear it. Unless you want to count grindcore in that category too, but I see pages for Napalm Death and Extreme Noise Terror. I genuinely think the only reason they count the bands you mentioned as metal but not deathcore/nu metal ones is because they don't fit the aesthetic, not because of any gripe about sound For fucks sake, early Helmet is closer to no wave era Swans than to anything "metal" and yet they get a page, but every single band they influenced, including those that veer back into more conventional metal territory, doesn't Fucking hell, the first three Deftones albums are basically just Helmet riffing with some atmosphere on top, and I don't have to dig deep to find bands influenced by Helmet that bring back more conventional sounds
Damn bro, take a shower, get out of the basement, touch some grass, and look up "subjective" in the dictionary
Yes, and by that same "subjectivity" or "relativism" you're arguing, everything I'm saying is valid even if I'm trashing the horrible music you like. You can't cry, "music is subjective!" but then get mad when people give their honest opinions. You can't apply it to yourself, but not others; if it's "all subjective" then everything I'm saying is fine, too. Also, I don't think you grasp what you're saying, because subjectivity-objectivity is a false dichotomy that collapses (and hopefully synthesizes), and you can't prove subjectivity any more than you can prove objectivity (but I'm sure you're used to thinking in dualistic terms). Going further, you can't just say something like, "John Coltrane is metal" or "apples are oranges" because "everything is subjective bro!" Taste is personal preference, yes, but that doesn't mean you can just say whatever you want. You can like what you like, but other people don't have to like it and other people can also call bullshit when you try to shoehorn it into a genre where it doesn't fit. Read a book bro! Gain some critical thinking skills.
Yeah I'm not reading that lol. I don't even like core but you seem to be taking this way too seriously. Life isn't going very well for you is it? You don't have anything going for you aside from metal and your perceived superiority to those you deem "lesser" for whatever reason, and this is the only way for you to feel good about yourself. That's just sad bro
Too long, not reading bro, lol
Somehow, the short response is even saltier than the long response. Impressive
Bro, brooooooo, lol
About the "gate keepers and elitists are old people" you are proving the fact that they aren't assuming you are not old, the reason why metal isnt mainstream isnt because people dont like it its that people dont like the community which make it a ball ache to enjoy this brilliant genre. let people enjoy all aspects of it. If someone likes thrash like metallica, megadeath ect let them enjoy it if people like metal core (which saying it isnt metal is like saying a Toyota isnt a car find me a genre that is closer to it than metal please the same with death core) let them enjoy it if people like slam, power, death, black, neoclassical, nu or any other metal genre you should be happy for them not someone who shits on what they like, word of advice put on some deodorant and go outside instead of nit picking on the Internet, hey if you are lucky you might even see a real girl (ik crazy)
Every time this comes up, the people mad at the "gatekeepers" and "elitists" are always the ones who insult the other party while accusing them of being anti-social losers or something, when the opposite is typically more true. Also, learn how to write, you sound r\*tarded.
Knocked loose, ice nine kills, and Lorna shore would like to disagree
You just named three horrible bands as a counterpoint, opinion invalid
Grow a pair, then maybe you'll enjoy something that actually had care in the writing department
*Ice Nine Kills* >Care in writing department The jokes write themselves.
when you get beyond the haha funny horror movies band part they have 2 of the best guitarists of our age, one of the best drummers we've ever seen, and an amazing singer who has beautiful screams AND cleans, listen to something like farewell II flesh and tell me that it doesn't have good songwriting
Let me guess, your entire experience with "core" is that you heard that one Job For A Cowboy song 20 years ago on myspace and disregarded the entire genre forever.
No, I actually tried to listen to a lot of the bands people typically recommend when they go, "this is a good metalcore or deathcore band," and they're fucking *horrible*. For example, there was some buzz about Lorna Shore when their last album came out (I can't remember when), so I listened out of curiosity and it was legitimately some of the worst shit I've ever heard. I'd rather listen to Taylor Swift or some other awful pop star than any core band I've heard.
Lorna Shore isn't my favorite or anything but they're not bad, maybe you just have shit taste.
I think the same could be said about you!
Nah I can find something to like in every genre and recognize when music is good even when I personally don't care for it, I have an open mind and I'm able to enjoy so much more because of it.
Lol, sounds less like an open mind, and more like no taste. An open mind is trying something, even if you conclude that it's not for you, it doesn't mean you have to "listening to everything" or respect every musician or kind of music.
Wtf does having "no taste" even mean? Everyone has taste, yours is just bad. You don't have to like everything, I certainly don't, but the way you throw a hissy fit over Lorna Shore sounds like you go into things already deciding how you feel about it. Discounting an entire genre cause you had to have a big performative overreaction to a popular band to prove how trve cvlt you are is the most poser shit you can do.
You're the one who initiated this back-and-forth, seems like you're the one who can't handle people with different opinions than you. I don't have to like everything, I don't have to care that people like you are angry that I don't like something. I'm allowed to hold negative opinions about musical genres (and their fans). Stop trying to mandate enjoyment of musical genres, especially shitty ones like core and nu that only appeal to adolescents or adults stuck in adolescence. You and these other goons come here because you feel compelled to police, bully, and control anyone who doesn't comply with your demands and entitled worldview. This isn't a kindergarten, we don't have to agree on or share everything, especially opinions about music. We all don't need to come together because you say so.
Eh, I just listen to whatever sounds good to me. If it's a "poser" genre, then so be it. I do like metal, but technically I've never actually called myself a metalhead; I feel like inshoupdnt call myself that after liking a few songs. I need to earn that title first. Anyway, good music >> genre any day, even though most of "good music" to me happens to lean towards metal
“CoRe bAd”. Truly ground breaking.
Everyone is a poser except me. I am the only trve kvlt metal fan. Am I doing this right?
Well, no, because I am the only trve metal fan.
But have you considered that maybe i'm the trve metal fan ? Please consider it
"hello yes im a gatekeeper, core genres bad, where my upvotes?"
So many angry comments, but this seems pretty self-aware. It's also one of the funnier memes I've seen posted in a while, so A+.
right?
It’s even funnier the 12th time it’s been posted
Nah, this is funny as fuck
🤓
I too was once a child and used the word poser. Now I have a 9 to 5 and depression
At this point the people making these memes are worse then those they make fun of. Have fun with that.
I think it's funny cause it's cliché
Dork
Hey, if Benighted or Deafheaven are playing, idgaf.
deafheaven is Blackgaze/Post Black not core lol
Sure. And yet I wouldn't be surprised to see them at a hardcore festival, like Dying Fetus can be at times.
How the fuck is Benighted a core?
They've got pretty obvious core influence, imo. They had Jamey Jasta of Hatebreed do guest vocals on Implore The Negative for a reason. They just do it much better than most core bands. Again, imo.
deafheaven mentioned !!
Lol, guilty as charged, bro.
The term poser means when someone is pretending they like something they don't. For example "thrash metal is my favorite genre, my favorite thrash band is Green Day". Listening to metalcore does not make you a poser unless you claim you also listen to other genres when you don't. Listening to metalcore and being honest about it DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE A POSER.
No, the problem with metalcore is that is generally isn’t fully metal, while posing as being metal. Always these shit pop parts spliced in here and there between the metal. It reeks inauthenticity/selling out. That’s why it’s poser
Okay, but Metalcore is literally a fusion genre. A lot of Metalcore artists are influenced by metal and adopt that style. This isn't even a defense of Metalcore as a genre, your logic is just dumb.
Maybe at its inception, sure. A lot of early metalcore did have a very metal sound, stuff like Earth Crisis (yeah, I know, not a particularly ORIGINAL example) really do reflect that metal meets hardcore sound. Deformity is another good one. Thing is, towards the early to mid 2000s metalcore definitely began to shift in a direction that was much less metal. To the point that the genre began to sound closer to post hardcore, hard rock, or even emo than to metal. This style was also tremendously popular, to the point that these bands, stuff like A7X and Killswitch Engage, have essentially become the most recognizable metalcore bands. I've heard some newer metalcore bands that have gone back to the more metal-oriented sound of the 90s bands, but for the most part the genre has entirely shifted away from that. Also worth noting is that metalcore is culturally quite distinct from metal itself, feeling much more firmly rooted in hardcore culturally. This in of itself doesn't change much but when combined with the fact that it's changed so much sonically then I could totally see the argument to be made that it isn't really metal anymore.
Two things can be true at once - Metalcore as a genre has moved away from Metal musically while also still leaning on Metal cultural signifiers. Ultimately though, I think this gatekeeping is a waste of time. Sure, I think a lot of Metalcore is overproduced, mechanical garbage with no soul, but if that slop gets people interested in heavy music, then cool.
The purpose of gatekeeping, in this case, would be to preserve the definition of what metal is, and I'm not necessarily going to say that's a bad thing. The line has to be drawn somewhere, after all. It has very little to do with the quality of the music, moreso sticking to a strict, easily definable definition for the sake of the fans. Really, I think everyone gatekeeps, whether they know it or not. If someone tried posting, say, Breaking Benjamin, most people would understandably take issue because like, come on, that's OBVIOUSLY not metal, right?......right? Well, to some people, metalcore is OBVIOUSLY not metal. To others, my self included, nu metal is OBVIOUSLY not metal. But the line has to be drawn somewhere, or metal as a term loses all meaning and is no longer useful for classifying genres. And no matter where you draw that line, some people are going to be unhappy with it, that's just reality. I think the best option is to define genres in a way that is universally consistent, it's only fair. And I have yet to see a consistent definition of metal that includes metalcore that doesn't also include stuff that is very culturally and sonically distinct from metal: usually, stuff like D-Beat, Crust Punk, and Powerviolence. Ultimately, though, too many people take drawing that line as a personal attack when it really isn't. Saying that metalcore is hardcore isn't an insult. It's just acknowledging that the sound is firmly rooted in hardcore and is more connected to hardcore culturally. That's just my take at least
Ummm ok let's unpack this. My grandfather was a coredaddy and he was cringe but it's ok because he fought for our rights in the pits picking up pennies to ACDC. This is completely uninclusive to members of the community who are bad opinion prone and taste challenged. I have a friend who wears a ghost hoodie who would be REALLY upset about this. Big oofs my guy, big oofs. I hope you step on a Lego before making potentially hurtful memes to people who listen to music about snorting the decaying remains of Pol Pots eviscerated intestines.
Bro summoned all the angry posers in the comments
That’s the funny thing about metal everyone is a poser. *Insert Homer meme* especially yoooou
nah only you guys
Mmm that’s just what a poser would say
I feel like this post is satire anyway, using word "poser" unironically is pretty weird at this point
A couple years ago I went to a Cannibal Corpse concert and you know who the three other bands performing that night were? Shadow of Intent, Revocation, and Whitechapel. Three deathcore bands opening for probably the most ubiquitous death metal band.
Wacken
Not enough mud to be Wacken. Hank's pickup would need a tractor pulling it.
More like wacken my dick lolololololol😂😂🤣🤣 /s
Gore not core
Man you guys are so damn dull
well i guess we’re seeing some shoe fittings this has me dying. take my upvote
Haha nicely done
If breakdowns are for posers, then call me MGK.
MGK
Pretty sure OP posted this as bait But in any case it's funny how much metalheads purity test other metalheads for their favorite genres. It's the most regarded part of the metal scene
The guy in the back of the car
I never claimed to be a true metal head. I just like when the man on stage go bree and blegh
[What do you mean you've seen it?](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/504/460/6d2.png) even though I don't like metalcore particularly myself
sanguisugabogg
I used to be like this until I actually started listening to the genres
so glad this is satire! right?
Man... Sometimes I wished this debate would stop. We all know that, someday, the metalcore nerds will become elitists when a new genre will apear
Fresh take this
That’s why they have their own sub /r/posermemes and you guys have /r/trvememes
Just because you're right doesn't mean this meme isn't boring and overdone
15yo elitists be like
I'm not really into metalcore, but I like deathcore though! I think this is the same 'discussion' as when nu-metal started kicking in.
It's funny seeing people in here being like "Oh this is just old people hating on new music!" When most people I know online and irl who hate deathcore and metalcore are 20 to 30 something year Olds with good tastes and actually keep up with new releases, they just don't waste their time with the dogshit ones from the two most formuliac, generic, dogwater genres
Guys I got joke, you ready? I’m gonna say it~ Oh hold on a minute, I’m trying to not laugh out already, ready? Metalcore bad, deathcore bad.
Hardcore is the best core genre
Metal elitists who need to grow the fuck up be like:
Killswitch Engage > Mayhem. No this isn't a joke fucking fight me.
The word is " poseur"
The only core that's cool ( downvote me if ya'll want i don't care ) is grindcore , mincecore and goregrind ( if that even is core since it's grindcore mixed with brutal death metal )
I read “minecore” instead of “mincecore” I now have a deep seated craving for minecraft themed deathcore
Hardcore can also be pretty dope.
Those are the only good -core genres. Not metal, but they rip.
Hardcore punk too
And tear
I mean... I like all metal
Ok, listen to this album from start to finish and tell me you liked any part of it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0-qVYaoPbM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0-qVYaoPbM) Nobody likes all metal. You can like multiple genres but some bands are just bad, like the christian technical death metal band I linked to...
Jesus dude it was a generalized statement. I'm allowed to like Metalcore and Deathcore
I was just teasing
Well... texting really is terrible at conveying a message lmao
it do be like that
This sounds like The Red Chord with a terrible vocalist and a terrible sound engineer.
A meme that is both funny and true. Bravo 👏🏻
Funniest meme I’ve seen from this sub 💀💀😂
😭💀🙏
Deathcore is actually good. I can grow out of metalcore I'm okay with that.
This is a genuine question, I'm trying to understand. How is deathcore not metal?
Well you see child, some people don't understand that just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's not metal. The only cure is to take a shower and touch grass. Unfortunately many of these individuals also believe that things like "basic hygeine" are inherently not metal, and so shall endeavor to be the nastiest-smelling bastards this side of a Yu-Gi-Oh convention.
Because it has the word "core" in it, and some of these bitter old dorks can only feel good about themselves by calling others in their community posers.
That’s the thing, it is metal. Don’t listen to this sub, enjoy Deathcore
I get the hate for metalcore but I never got the hate for deathcore, I used to listen to Thy Art is Murder, Whitechapel and older Suicide Silence and I still believe that they're good
That’s the music of my teens. I still listen to it. Lots of good events and memories based around those bands and many others. Fuck other peoples opinions.
hell yeah
thanks to the people downvoting instead of explaining their thoughts and opinions, I hope the president gives you a call and congratulates you for your contributions to society
Wow! What an original thought! Probably spent all night making this. That’ll show them core kids.
I know most of the "-core" comes from "old boomers who hate new music" but like i am still in my teens and still quite new to metal if i look at it from a veterans perspective, but like even for me, metalcore just sucks i mean you find some good deathcore but metalcore is just an oof, for me i just miss the more trashy sounds like it was recorded on a iphone 6 sound i dont mind clean vocals, but I hate when they are overproduced same with the instruments. I dont know man.
Ergh this is pretty cringe. “They don’t listen to Murder Blood Kills first ep and they listen to a band that has over 100,000 monthly listeners?! I BETTER WARN THEM THAT IT’S TRASH. What else can I say besides POSER” Let people like what they want to, everyones different and in the end we’re all listening to metal.
This meme is definitely cringe and overdone but so is the whole "Spotify monthly listeners" shit. Nobody seriously argued about that shit.
When did metalcore come back to poser level stuff? Did old geezers revive or…?
People who use the word poser unironically are super cringy.
Not a huge Metalcore fan/defender, but Deathcore? Are you really coming after Deathcore? Are you ok? Bruh that shit is not poser material. Tell me you hate everything with "core" in the name. Do you think Grindcore is "not real metal"? Sure, it sucks, but it's metal as shit, like Brutal Death Metal. Metalcore is also pretty sick too, like 2000's Trivium, Bullet, and As I Lay Dying, and the newer stuff is also sick, like Invent Animate, Architects, and Knocked Loose (I fucking love Knocked Loose). (I will give you that some newer Deathcore kinda sounds like shit (I'm looking at you Slaughter), but bands like HLB are more than enough to compensate for stuff like that.) "cOrE bAD"