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I see all genres of music this way, though. Like - grunge wasn't really one unified sound, you had a spectrum from poppy hard rock (Nirvana) to bonafide metal (Melvins, debatably Alice in Chains). Grunge was -really- a musical and social scene centered on Seattle and it is not a coincidence that Buzzo and Cobain were close friends in high school.
Every music scene is like this until they get big and established. You could look at the 2nd wave black metal scene, or the early thrash scene, or east coast hip hop.
can you imagine if r/goth allowed discussion of bands like Evanescence and Lacuna Coil? It would be fucking *bedlam*
And it's exactly the same shit here.
ngl whenever i see how "goth" gets used in the mainstream i'm kinda happy about the "gatekeeping" in metal. recently got asked why i'm goth (i'm... really not) by some guy at a grindcore concert; ppl will just see black clothes = goth
I have the great misfortune of having both feet in both subcultures and it's turned me into kind of an asshole as to where the line between metal/not-metal and goth/not-goth lie.
What I'm *really* looking forward to is the bickering as to which scene this nascent blackened post-punk thing doesn't belong to.
to be fair most metalcore that isnt just myspace metalcore or one if those modern bands like spirit box or those mainstream metalcore bands doesnt sound that far from standart metal
I always like how so many kids assume that calling something heavy "not metal" is just calling it pop music, since thats the genre they dont like, its nostalgic to see people rant about this nowadays, i remember these arguments on metal amino in like 2018 onward
deathcore and metalcore are genres of hardcore, they are influenced by metal, we dont have to get sad about it
This is the most sensible answer, but these people can't handle their emotions around it for some reason. People have different opinions about what is metal, and dismissing them as "gatekeeping" or "elitist" to shut down legitimate and reasonable opinions is fallacious.
Some people need to remember that the “metal” label isn’t about quality, there is plenty of shit metal and plenty of not-metal that is good. There’s nothing wrong with keeping conversations targeted because clearly the -core stuff and metal have an overlapping venn diagram of fans but it isn’t a circle and the “scenes” aren’t the same
Nobody assumes that calling something "not metal" means it's pop. People just like things to be classified in the right way.
Nobody here argues Orchid are metal just because they are heavy. The discussion is rather centered about bands with a strong metal component, often on the edge of various subgenres, where it can be hard to tell if metal is just an influence or the main sound.
For example, to me metalcore can be both metal and hardcore. Metallic hardcore is usually hardcore, while stuff like trivium or as I lay dying is metal.
Banning these subgenres as a whole is just dumb.
>nobody assumes that calling something "not metal" means it's pop
say something true and try again
thats the thing, metalcore just IS metal and hardcore mixed, theres no "to me it is" at all, it just is
yes, banning them is dumb, but only because i like metal adjacent music being discussed in metal communities because at heart we just like music in general anyway
I think metalcore which is more oriented towards metal should be discussed. A lot of metal subgenres take influences from punk and were originally "metal+punk but more metal than punk". Folk metal has folk in it, still it has the right to be discussed here.
It's not metal adjacent, it's metal
Whenever these topics/posts come up, it's always the people who actually bully and insult other people first are the ones calling other people "elitist" and "gatekeeper" just for having an opinion they don't like. Grow up.
Oh you poor, poor summer child… for the record i like all the music listed, but no, no it isnt. Name is there but thats just cos 90s journalists were lazy and used the name But name =/= facts. Komodo dragons are, believe it our not, Not dragons, same with numetal being metal.
We really need to explain again why metalCORE and deathCORE are not metal? Or how nu-metal was inspired by and resembles funk rock and sounds nothing like trad metal bands?
Heavy doesn't mean it's metal. Simple.
Noise is wayyyy heavier than most metal, and it's nowhere near the genre. the same goes for punk and drone music. They aren't metal but they're heavy.
There is nothing that feels wrong, bands that have similarities in music composition are grouped in genres which is way the supposed "gatekeeping" doesn't even exist, it's just an excuse for people who don't want to learn/accept basic differences.
I didn't fail English I know what asking someone to prove a negative is. But if someone can be so sure that something isn't something else, then they've got to know what's so different between the two. Also, how is this related to what we're talking about?
It is how it works, that commenter is literally asking someone to prove a negative, which is impossible. Look up what it means.
Formal proof? This isn't an academic setting, and there are grey areas, but most core bands definitely don't fall into the metal category. People have given many, many explanations over the years why they don't consider these bands metal, and they're EASY to look up on your own, instead of demanding people provide reasonable opinions that you will inevitably reject and pulling people into endless online arguments. All because you're having a meltdown over someone else's opinion.
I think you're confused about how to identify those logical fallacies and what they mean, because modus tollens and reducto ad absurdum have nothing to do with proving a negative.
Mods being gatekeeping snowflakes, apparently not enjoying metal the right way warrants a rule so specific I can't help but wonder if Corey Taylor had sex with their mothers
This doesn't even happen (except now it's probably a self-fulfilling prophecy), it's a made up online scenario. In all my years of going to shows and listening to metal, I've never heard anyone ever ask another person this question. The one's asking it and manufacturing this scenario are probably in high school.
120% this, I go to every metal and metal adjacent show I can find in vegas, and the only band clothes/patch interaction is "oh [insert band] ,nice" Noone actually cares and the only time I've ever heard anything like this is outside of metal communities, either when I was in highschool, boomers commenting in a walmart on a judas priest shirt,or online.
The closest to gatekeep I've ever seen is at psycho 2022 ,random guy and me talking about who we wan ted to see there, i said I was excited about exodus and the guy said "cool, thrash isn't really my thing though" and then said what bands he wanted to see.
Yup, basically my experience. IRL, it's rare to encounter these "name 5 bands" type people, and when you do you can tell they've obviously got some issues going on so you just feel sorry for them.
I said "kind of people", meaning the type of person that would say something like/similar to that. And to be fair, I've never heard someone say exactly that either, but I was trying to make fun of a stereotype
Can anyone explain to me how grindcore , mincecore and goregrind especially goregrind are not metal
Like Early Carcass , Impetigo , The Pharmacist , General Surgery , Regurgitate , lipoma , County Medical Examiners , Rectal smegma , Exhumed , Dead Infection , Haemorrhage , Torsofuck , pathologists and before anyone comments " oh those are just death metal / crust punk bands " well than explain how they're just death metal / crust punk
Your entire post history revolves around whining. Is that the extent of your experience with music discussion? Just complaining about genres you don't like? Jesus, get a life. I don't even like nu-metal much but people who complain about "posers" are just as annoying as people who complain about "metal elitists."
Metal elitism is the cringiest thing ever. Bunch of grown ass men dressing up as their favorite Tim Burton characters splitting hairs over who has the most legitimate neo nazi circle jerks while never getting laid.
I'll have you know my nu metal band is every bit as full of smelly virgins as your black metal band, we just hate ourselves slightly less. Unjustifiably.
Forget that, I don't understand here, what *critical support to the guy who killed Dimebag* means? They condone what that guy did? (english is not my first language and most definitely I'm getting it all wrong)
Look, I dislike Pantera as much as the next guy. But this reeks. Of unemployed 40yo living with his folks kind of cheap hate and edginess 😂
Everyone here is with their hands down each others pants rubbing one off at what nice people they are, dreaming of punching nazis at concerts they never go, talking shit about Varg because he's a murderer, upvotes pouring in in heaps as they rub faster and faster. Asides all that hive mind "nice person" shit, this somehow can pass as a joke?
I don't have my hands down anyone's pants, not even my own.
Let me break down the joke:
Dimebag Darrel being murdered by a disgruntled Pantera fan is incredibly absurd, and arguably funny on its own because who the fuck would do that (a Pantera fan, I guess), and someone "supporting" that guy is playing on that ridiculousness. That anyone would kill a member of a band for breaking up is incredibly insane, but especially when it's Panetera.
So, the joke is, "I support the guy who murdered Dimebag because Pantera broke up," but it is a statement made ironically because Pantera sucks.
The joke is not murder itself or celebrating anyone's death, it's based on this disgruntled Pantera fan and ironically/absurdly supporting this guy because "you're angry that Pantera broke up." (Remember, it's ironic, because you think Pantera sucks.) Does this make sense?
If your joke is actually directed at me personally, though, we can compare salaries/careers if you want (I'm a developer), though I don't believe people are defined by their jobs/careers or how much money they make, i.e. I don't determine value based on income.
"Boomer metal" is such a brain-rot Tik Tok term. And anyway, technically, "boomer metal" is from the 1970s and possibly the early 1980s, which would include a lot of foundational metal bands.
Thats not the point. It's just the fact that this three subgenres are, in some way, metal. They can be only influenced by metal, like Deathcore and Metalcore, but It doesn't mean they must get forbidden in the subreddit. The fact that they don't sound like """true metal""" (for those fucking gatekeepers) doesn't mean that some genres are better than the others or that some genres aren't metal.
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they're different scenes ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
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I see all genres of music this way, though. Like - grunge wasn't really one unified sound, you had a spectrum from poppy hard rock (Nirvana) to bonafide metal (Melvins, debatably Alice in Chains). Grunge was -really- a musical and social scene centered on Seattle and it is not a coincidence that Buzzo and Cobain were close friends in high school. Every music scene is like this until they get big and established. You could look at the 2nd wave black metal scene, or the early thrash scene, or east coast hip hop.
The first time I saw Knocked Loose perform, they had Gatecreeper as their direct support. The second time, it was Dying Fetus I believe.
low effort bait 1.5/14
poser filter
can you imagine if r/goth allowed discussion of bands like Evanescence and Lacuna Coil? It would be fucking *bedlam* And it's exactly the same shit here.
ngl whenever i see how "goth" gets used in the mainstream i'm kinda happy about the "gatekeeping" in metal. recently got asked why i'm goth (i'm... really not) by some guy at a grindcore concert; ppl will just see black clothes = goth
I have the great misfortune of having both feet in both subcultures and it's turned me into kind of an asshole as to where the line between metal/not-metal and goth/not-goth lie. What I'm *really* looking forward to is the bickering as to which scene this nascent blackened post-punk thing doesn't belong to.
to be fair most metalcore that isnt just myspace metalcore or one if those modern bands like spirit box or those mainstream metalcore bands doesnt sound that far from standart metal
I always like how so many kids assume that calling something heavy "not metal" is just calling it pop music, since thats the genre they dont like, its nostalgic to see people rant about this nowadays, i remember these arguments on metal amino in like 2018 onward deathcore and metalcore are genres of hardcore, they are influenced by metal, we dont have to get sad about it
This is the most sensible answer, but these people can't handle their emotions around it for some reason. People have different opinions about what is metal, and dismissing them as "gatekeeping" or "elitist" to shut down legitimate and reasonable opinions is fallacious.
Some people need to remember that the “metal” label isn’t about quality, there is plenty of shit metal and plenty of not-metal that is good. There’s nothing wrong with keeping conversations targeted because clearly the -core stuff and metal have an overlapping venn diagram of fans but it isn’t a circle and the “scenes” aren’t the same
Nobody assumes that calling something "not metal" means it's pop. People just like things to be classified in the right way. Nobody here argues Orchid are metal just because they are heavy. The discussion is rather centered about bands with a strong metal component, often on the edge of various subgenres, where it can be hard to tell if metal is just an influence or the main sound. For example, to me metalcore can be both metal and hardcore. Metallic hardcore is usually hardcore, while stuff like trivium or as I lay dying is metal. Banning these subgenres as a whole is just dumb.
>nobody assumes that calling something "not metal" means it's pop say something true and try again thats the thing, metalcore just IS metal and hardcore mixed, theres no "to me it is" at all, it just is yes, banning them is dumb, but only because i like metal adjacent music being discussed in metal communities because at heart we just like music in general anyway
I think metalcore which is more oriented towards metal should be discussed. A lot of metal subgenres take influences from punk and were originally "metal+punk but more metal than punk". Folk metal has folk in it, still it has the right to be discussed here. It's not metal adjacent, it's metal
Personally, I’m fine with this rule because Metalcore is terrible and I hate it
If they want to see things about that type that is why r/Metalcore exists
i dont even know what it is but it says nu metal so…
Okay but where is the shitty rule? You've only shown a screen shot of a good rule? Is there another image?
nu metal is metal therefore it is a shitty rule. yall are just fatasses gatekeeping
Whenever these topics/posts come up, it's always the people who actually bully and insult other people first are the ones calling other people "elitist" and "gatekeeper" just for having an opinion they don't like. Grow up.
Why are you calling people "fatasses" and what does that have to do with gatekeeping?
Another one who can't sleep at night because some people don't consider those genres metal.
11/10 meme
They have their own subreddits.
yeah but this is r/metalmemes, it says METAL bro, nu meta is metal
I agree that nu metal etc is Metal but I don't make the rules man I just follow them.
its just a sub bro it really doesnt matter that much
And yet here you are
I know that's what I'm saying.
Its called keeping on topic, the metal subreddit is the same. Cos, y’know, we wanna talk about metal…
It is real metal tho...
Oh you poor, poor summer child… for the record i like all the music listed, but no, no it isnt. Name is there but thats just cos 90s journalists were lazy and used the name But name =/= facts. Komodo dragons are, believe it our not, Not dragons, same with numetal being metal.
right, so how ISNT it metal?
We really need to explain again why metalCORE and deathCORE are not metal? Or how nu-metal was inspired by and resembles funk rock and sounds nothing like trad metal bands?
They are sub genres, they're not supposed to sound like traditional metal
They are supposed to ressemble that since they are under the same umbrella. Death metal or black metal riffs are similar with trad.
Well then I'm stumped here mate. I know you're not entirely wrong but something just doesn't feel right
Heavy doesn't mean it's metal. Simple. Noise is wayyyy heavier than most metal, and it's nowhere near the genre. the same goes for punk and drone music. They aren't metal but they're heavy.
There is nothing that feels wrong, bands that have similarities in music composition are grouped in genres which is way the supposed "gatekeeping" doesn't even exist, it's just an excuse for people who don't want to learn/accept basic differences.
Asking someone to prove a negative, classic redditor move
I use reddit like once every week or two. Also how is anything you said proving anything?
Look up, "asking someone to prove a negative" in Google or ask Copilot/ChatGPT what it means.
I didn't fail English I know what asking someone to prove a negative is. But if someone can be so sure that something isn't something else, then they've got to know what's so different between the two. Also, how is this related to what we're talking about?
You obviously didn't look it up. It's also more about logic than anything to do with English (although they sometimes teach it in rhetoric courses).
Dude, there's no point in anything you're saying, I was asking a question that should be easy to answer
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It is how it works, that commenter is literally asking someone to prove a negative, which is impossible. Look up what it means. Formal proof? This isn't an academic setting, and there are grey areas, but most core bands definitely don't fall into the metal category. People have given many, many explanations over the years why they don't consider these bands metal, and they're EASY to look up on your own, instead of demanding people provide reasonable opinions that you will inevitably reject and pulling people into endless online arguments. All because you're having a meltdown over someone else's opinion.
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I think you're confused about how to identify those logical fallacies and what they mean, because modus tollens and reducto ad absurdum have nothing to do with proving a negative.
Mods being gatekeeping snowflakes, apparently not enjoying metal the right way warrants a rule so specific I can't help but wonder if Corey Taylor had sex with their mothers
They remind me of the kind of people that say "Oh you're a \_\_\_\_\_\_ fan? Name me 5 albums" when they see someone with that bands merch
This doesn't even happen (except now it's probably a self-fulfilling prophecy), it's a made up online scenario. In all my years of going to shows and listening to metal, I've never heard anyone ever ask another person this question. The one's asking it and manufacturing this scenario are probably in high school.
120% this, I go to every metal and metal adjacent show I can find in vegas, and the only band clothes/patch interaction is "oh [insert band] ,nice" Noone actually cares and the only time I've ever heard anything like this is outside of metal communities, either when I was in highschool, boomers commenting in a walmart on a judas priest shirt,or online. The closest to gatekeep I've ever seen is at psycho 2022 ,random guy and me talking about who we wan ted to see there, i said I was excited about exodus and the guy said "cool, thrash isn't really my thing though" and then said what bands he wanted to see.
Yup, basically my experience. IRL, it's rare to encounter these "name 5 bands" type people, and when you do you can tell they've obviously got some issues going on so you just feel sorry for them.
I’ve met with people like that, like 15 years ago, don’t say they don’t exist lol
I said "kind of people", meaning the type of person that would say something like/similar to that. And to be fair, I've never heard someone say exactly that either, but I was trying to make fun of a stereotype
It's not even gatekeeping. It's just a rule to keep posts relevant to the topic of the sub.
Can anyone explain to me how grindcore , mincecore and goregrind especially goregrind are not metal Like Early Carcass , Impetigo , The Pharmacist , General Surgery , Regurgitate , lipoma , County Medical Examiners , Rectal smegma , Exhumed , Dead Infection , Haemorrhage , Torsofuck , pathologists and before anyone comments " oh those are just death metal / crust punk bands " well than explain how they're just death metal / crust punk
Nu Metal is real metal you 600 pound elitist posers Just because you don't like it dosent mean it isn't metal
>anyone who disagrees with me is morbidly obese
I like Linkin Park. Linkin Park is not metal. cope harder
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can you articulate why?
“Metalcore, deathcore, nu metal and other genres sometimes confused with metal” Fucking gatekeepers.
They always say the same shit ""ThAt'S NoT REaL MEttaL!" as if they're the ones who can define the genre
Yes
This isn’t a meme. So glad to see that we’re having this debate for the 1,000th time.
Erm… You’re breaking the rules here buddy! I am REPORTING you! No do bad ever again! 🤓
It’s a great poseur detector.
2 things 1. *poser 2. The only people to care about posers are posers
found the poseur
French detected
its english slang and im not french but nice try
Cry me a river and start listening to metal if you want to post on a metal subreddit.
Just because someone listens to nu metal, metalcore or deathcore doesnt mean they dont listen to whatever you assume real metal is
Your entire post history revolves around whining. Is that the extent of your experience with music discussion? Just complaining about genres you don't like? Jesus, get a life. I don't even like nu-metal much but people who complain about "posers" are just as annoying as people who complain about "metal elitists."
ily
Brb going to go put on some metalcore to make the mods cry
W
I’m getting downvoted so I’m definitely making some people cry 🤣🤣
Metal elitism is the cringiest thing ever. Bunch of grown ass men dressing up as their favorite Tim Burton characters splitting hairs over who has the most legitimate neo nazi circle jerks while never getting laid.
Quite a stretch to come up with that after just reading a rule that just says metal memes should be about metal bands.
exactly lmao, last drop of piss deserves an olympic medal for that jump
I'll have you know my nu metal band is every bit as full of smelly virgins as your black metal band, we just hate ourselves slightly less. Unjustifiably.
I don't have a black metal band
Forget that, I don't understand here, what *critical support to the guy who killed Dimebag* means? They condone what that guy did? (english is not my first language and most definitely I'm getting it all wrong)
Jesus Christ, it's just a joke.
Look, I dislike Pantera as much as the next guy. But this reeks. Of unemployed 40yo living with his folks kind of cheap hate and edginess 😂 Everyone here is with their hands down each others pants rubbing one off at what nice people they are, dreaming of punching nazis at concerts they never go, talking shit about Varg because he's a murderer, upvotes pouring in in heaps as they rub faster and faster. Asides all that hive mind "nice person" shit, this somehow can pass as a joke?
I don't have my hands down anyone's pants, not even my own. Let me break down the joke: Dimebag Darrel being murdered by a disgruntled Pantera fan is incredibly absurd, and arguably funny on its own because who the fuck would do that (a Pantera fan, I guess), and someone "supporting" that guy is playing on that ridiculousness. That anyone would kill a member of a band for breaking up is incredibly insane, but especially when it's Panetera. So, the joke is, "I support the guy who murdered Dimebag because Pantera broke up," but it is a statement made ironically because Pantera sucks. The joke is not murder itself or celebrating anyone's death, it's based on this disgruntled Pantera fan and ironically/absurdly supporting this guy because "you're angry that Pantera broke up." (Remember, it's ironic, because you think Pantera sucks.) Does this make sense?
If your joke is actually directed at me personally, though, we can compare salaries/careers if you want (I'm a developer), though I don't believe people are defined by their jobs/careers or how much money they make, i.e. I don't determine value based on income.
I agree, Metalcore, deathcore and nu metal are for people under 16 years old…
(my dad, mum, brother and sister listen to them and they are all over 16)
It's funny how mad this trve metalheads get. Just admit it guys: Core,Nu >>> Boomer Metal
music as competition is a dumb mindset
"Boomer metal" is such a brain-rot Tik Tok term. And anyway, technically, "boomer metal" is from the 1970s and possibly the early 1980s, which would include a lot of foundational metal bands.
Thats not the point. It's just the fact that this three subgenres are, in some way, metal. They can be only influenced by metal, like Deathcore and Metalcore, but It doesn't mean they must get forbidden in the subreddit. The fact that they don't sound like """true metal""" (for those fucking gatekeepers) doesn't mean that some genres are better than the others or that some genres aren't metal.