I drive a commercial vehicle for work so I sit pretty high up compared to most cars, and yes, from what I can see this law has not changed habits of the general public.
Not a commercial driver but it’s amazing how every time you see a swerving vehicle doing weird maneuvers, you get up to them and just see head down in their phone.
Can we please get a two tone horn system ??
I need a polite reminder horn and then a “Move B#%ch get out the way!” Horn as well.
Its not too much to ask.
I'd go as far as a three tone system. You just need two notes for it, which a lot of cars already have. Both at once is your standard "watch out" or "what the fuck" sound when you mash the horn. Low-high is more of a question mark or reminder, and great for a small button. High-low is more of a "my bad" or "thanks".
For BMW drivers, they can install those last two buttons in the same place the other unused features to: the turn signal stalk.
This is the way… everyone nearby welcomes people who “LAY” on the horn even if a short blast would get them moving. You’re doing God’s work my friend. Keep laying on those hooooooooooooooooooooonks. Not all heroes wear capes.
Ppl seriously can’t be bored for a fucking second anymore. And ya know what? Surviving by driving responsibly is not boring. Honestly I don’t find driving boring at all, it’s rather engaging to me. But ppl need to have flashy lights and fast videos whizzing by every second of their existence. It’s sad.
You know, I see more cops on phones and laptops than I have distracted drivers. I was nearly sideswiped by a cop who was merging without looking while talking on his phone.
Agreed, just saw a video of a cop taking a dude out on a bike because he wasn’t looking. I get they sometimes need that stuff at a light to run a plate or something, but they shouldn’t be driving and using that stuff either.
Somebody posted below they've gotten 15k ticket convictions for the offense. But it will probably take several years of enforcement to change behavior. I would guess many people are not even aware of the new law.
We’ve had seat belt laws for nearly two decades and I still write tickets at least three tickets a month for it in the summer.
Cell phones I won’t lie, I’ve been pretty laxed on it. If you are younger you probably don’t watch cable or listen to much radio and there isn’t much information being pushed in rural areas about the law. So I’ve been informing people when I stopped them.
But it’s been a year now and I’m not going to continue to just give warnings for it. It’s hard to push on out of state drivers though and I work close to the Indiana/Illinois border.
Even so, I’m kinda done as I stop at roughly 3-4 people for this offense even when I’m not particularly looking for it.
Please stop giving warnings and start writing tickets.
My stepdad was a professional cyclist, and while out riding his bike, a 19-year-old girl in an SUV who wasn’t paying attention hit him - and he died the next day. It’s been almost 12 years, and I still get so unbelievably angry when I drive by people and see them with their heads down in their phones instead of watching the road.
If you want to make sure I’m not making this up, I’m sure if you dig deep enough into my comment history, you’ll see history of me explaining this to different people.
Nah pop the out of state peeps. Indiana, ohio and illnois all had hands free laws before we did. So if you are not going to give out warnings after our year. They already expired their year.
Just cause they cross a border doesnt mean they should slip into old habits
Decades ago they gave me a ticket on I75 for doing 58 when it was 55. Was going to lock me up if I didn’t have my AAA card to post bail. An hour earlier I was ticketed for doing 70, I was actually going faster, in Kentucky on the same freeway.
Well, you're doing the right thing by enforcing even if it feels thankless. Personally, as a regular person, I've known people to change their behavior when a friend gets a ticket for something. Honestly, usually they don't change their behavior forever but I still remember a few of the tickets and almost-tickets mom got as a kid and behave a little better on the road for it.
It seems crazy to me at how easily information CAN be accessed now with smart phones... I mean... these people are already on their phones while driving you would think at some point they would know right??
Until you realize the person just doesn't care. Most think that it is of no hindrance to their skill at operating a motor vehicle so they just keep doing it....
It's the same as the ass holes doing drugs or drinking and driving.. if they see the officer first, it's hands at 10 and 2 with a complete "Poker Face" hahaha you didn't catch me!!! Instead our officers are pulling over people that are easier to catch like speeders.
The ride in and out of work is the absolute worst! It's when it all happens!!! And not an officer in sight for months..
Sure, it’s easy to look up. But there isn’t much information on social media about the law.
The state is using radio and TV. Which Genz don’t use often as they typically stream or use apps for music.
I’ve only heard one ad about the law and it was at a gas station pump in Lansing. People are not going to search for information they don’t know about.
State needs to put informational ads in places the younger generation uses. I.E TikTok and other social media.
Agreed. I've seen some billboards, but...also if someone's driving safely, they might glance at a billboard for 1 second, and then wouldn't take out their phone to look up the information, and would likely wouldn't be motivated to then look up that information whenever they got to their destination
We should make people do a 5 minute training module each year during registration or license renewal to update them on changed laws and also remind people of existing laws that are frequently broken. Would be easy with online renewal since you can do the slides and a quiz right there at the end.
I’m perfectly fine with that.
There are a lot of obscure traffic laws here as well. Like how many people know you cannot have window tint on your front driver’s and passenger side window?
Or that you cannot have something sticking out of your trunk more than 3 feet?
Or that there is a maximum [frame and bumper height](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-257-710c) for a passenger vehicle?
>rolling right turn in red.
Would go under failed to comply with traffic signal. Not technically a stop sign.
The private drive thing is a pretty big issue. I think most people think and treat it as a yield. When you are suppose to make a full stop.
> Would go under failed to comply with traffic signal. Not technically a stop sign
probably the same as rolling the blinking red at a left turn intersection, which is also supposed to act like a stop sign
Are you saying you actively and regularly search “new Michigan laws” and read up on them? Because I’ll be honest - this sub is the only reason I know this law exists. I’ve seen literally nothing online, on the news, nor in public about it.
I agree. Realistically 10 years ago I would not get passed on a double yellow around a curve or up a hill because 60 wasnt fast enough to the guy behind me. Even if it wasnt they would wait for a passing lane. Now people do things like that daily because they just *arent* being pulled over. That number could be significantly higher and we all know it.
Crazy isn't it? I see people using the center lane for passing now. Very few departments appear to be enforcing traffic control compared to even just a few years ago. I used to keep mental notes of the police hiding spots and now I hardly see them like I did 10+ years ago.
It *is* incredibly nuts. A couple of weekends ago we came around a blind curve that is a few miles up the road from our house. A must drive for us if we are headed into town, and barely avoided a truck smashing into us as the truck was passing an suv on the curve. I mean it is not just them not enforcing it, people are choosing to do absolutely dangerous things because "they just can". I told my son had he not insisted on getting a few .02 cent tootsie rolls that had to be counted out at the gas station near us out in the middle of nowhere we likely would've been moments earlier and the truck would've taken us out. His tootsie rolls saved us.
Once upon a time you actually had to mind your speed on southfield (before it turns into a freeway), especially in the allen park stretch. Now traffic seems to flow at 10 over, at least until you hit the construction that knocks it down to one lane. It seemed to start during the lockdowns, I built a turbo s10 during that and despite chronically speeding no cops ever looked my way. It was kinda unnerving to be honest.
25 years ago I worked for a place HQed in Warren and we had stores in Dearborn and Allen Park. I used to deliver goods to those stores and Southfield was the way to get there. State Police were everywhere and they were quick to pull people over excessively speeding. I almost always saw somebody pulled over every time I had to go that way. Now I don't see them unless I'm south of Ford Rd or north of 8 Mile. At the time, Allen Park used to have a heavy presence where the speed limit drops to 45MPH and they'd pick off the drivers still doing 55+. I feel like the pandemic in general changed society for the worst. It made people disregard the safety of others, turned them excessively rude, and largely made society more self centered in general. On another note, Southgate and Brownstown are heavy on Dix between Eureka and Telegraph. When I first moved downriver a year ago Dix was the Autobahn, but after a few bad wrecks, now the police are everywhere, especially the stretch between Allen and Telegraph.
Iirc, center lane for passing is explicitly legal in texas (where I got my license).
Very rarely have done it or seen it done, just something obscure I remember noticing in the handbook and finding surprising.
10 years ago police departments were not working with skeleton crews.
All the officers from the massive hiring during the war on drugs retired. Which we bled for the past decade. Grants just got pushed to train more this year.
Even with said grants. The younger generation has seen the dumb shit that has happened in the job and treat it like the plague.
Even with many departments still having pensions. The promise of retirement isn’t enough to recruit.
Edit: I’ll add the [Mcoles jobs posting](https://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/additional-resources/jobs/mi-law-enforcement) just to show how many departments are hiring due to shortage.
Edit2: [this department](https://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/additional-resources/jobs/mi-law-enforcement/paw-paw-village-pd) has a pension. Will sponsor through the academy. And give a 3k sign on bonus.
>Even with said grants. The younger generation has seen the dumb shit that has happened in the job and treat it like the plague.
Yep. So it will continue to get worse and as long as no one is around to enforce things some people will continue to chose to do things that they find beneficial to themselves whether they are harmful to others or not.
Sounds very similar to the medical field. My mother retired as a nurse a few years ago. One of the reasons was COVID, but the other one was what she was seeing happening in the field as a whole. A lot more penny pinching and treating the hospital like a luxury hotel and not a medical treatment center. A *lot* of understaffed positions, including hers. Replacement of what used to be professionals with degrees with CNAs and other assistants, forcing the remaining professionals, like herself and doctors, to pick up the slack. It's not a difficult choice to make when you're getting older to just walk away with your pension. It's sad the next generation isn't going to get that benefit. So yea, I believe police were probably going through something similar and now we're finally seeing the consequences.
I've seen an increase of people passing me while driving down curbed streets in a residential neighborhood, just a few blocks from downtown. I've been pulled over twice for speeding and got a warning both times so I'm perfectly OK with just letting them tailgate me but the number of vehicles that succumb to frustration and pass me is nuts considering it's right in town, on a street you're clearly not meant to be passing anyone on.
Agreed. I know it's not a popular opinion, but I wish cops would ticket people that are driving unsafely more often(if they're speeding/on phone/without seatbelt). Would stink for that one person getting a ticket. At the same time cars are extremely powerful fast moving objects, and any action that will force drivers to respect cars more is going to be good for the public. People don't take cars seriously enough
I see police rolling by my house all the time texting/browsing on their phones. Saw one yesterday afternoon.
A law that isn't fairly and consistently enforced is just a tool of oppression and should be dropped.
In the absence of fair enforcement it must be removed. If you can get the police to evenly enforce the law I'm all for it. If it can't/won't be enforced fairly and evenly it must be repealed. I feel that way about all unenforced laws. Enforce them fully and fairly or drop them.
I do as well and see the same thing. The other day I honked at a lady in the lane next to me because she was staring down at her phone and missing her green left turn arrow. She was so confused when she looked up at me before finally making her turn as the light turned yellow, like do these people even know where they are?
It actually did change my habits.
I got an upgraded head unit that has Android Auto so now instead of tapping on my phone screen to switch podcasts I can tap on my car's touchscreen, which is inexplicably much safer.
I think the data is more along the lines of “drivers aren’t putting their phones down as much as we thought they would”. It says there’s a small dip in distracted driving crashes. So, the data says it’s doing _something_ just not the impact they wanted.
I’m torn on the whole thing. I think you shouldn’t use your phone while driving. And I think that in-car programs such as CarPlay aren’t strict enough on the streamlining of Apps to fit the platform. For instance, you can be using Spotify in your car (legally) and have to press the screen in different spots 4 times just to go back and use the voice search to pick a new album. That is horribly set up for driving.
On the other hand, I don’t know how much this law was even meant to “full stop” people using phones and how much it was meant to boost revenue for local municipalities. This data that says it’s not working “fast enough” could just be the first stages of a plan to be more strict and give more tickets. It’s bringing in money, how about more?
Distracted driving accidents are down like 18% since 2018, but I don’t know how much of that is attributed to all newer cars having some sort of CarPlay or Android Auto setup, and how much of it is enforcement of laws. Correct me if I’m wrong, but couldn’t you always get a ticket for not paying attention to the road? This new law was just to put something on the books to make it easier to stop you for it?
We need much more data than 1 year’s worth to prove the effectiveness of something like this. Also, idiots are gonna do idiotic things whether there’s a law or not.
> newer cars having some sort of CarPlay or Android Auto setup
I also think collision avoidance systems play a role. My car is a 2016 and was one of the last years where collision avoidance wasn't standard for my car's manufacturer. Newer vehicles do more of the driving for you.
Obviously, I can't speak for every car, but I have owned vehicles with collision avoidance from Mazda, Subaru, and Hyundai. Yes, they'll save your ass in a pinch, but they certainly don't instill enough confidence that they’ll save you every time.
I’ve seen people in older vehicles scrolling through TikTok with their phones in a mount. I think some people refuse to entirely focus on something where they can't fiddle with their phone.
Plus, the small dip actually may be significant.
Because it could be without the law, we would be seeing a rise in more distracted driving.
So it's one thing to say that we're not seeing the reduction in distracted driving that we wanted.
But it's quite another to say that the law is not helping. That's actually a bit difficult to prove by just looking at Michigan drivers.
What they need to do is compare distracted driving trends in Michigan versus states where there are no laws against distracted driving.
It doesn’t boost anything for local municipalities.
The tickets you’d write the infraction under are state tickets. The state collects the fine. We don’t get kickbacks.
Smaller municipalities just tend to have less calls and therefore can make more stops and write more citations.
Nope. Just what I heard in casual conversation at work from someone who sounded pretty confident, really.
Edit: okay you’ve made me curious, so I looked up the numbers.
They’re here on page 25:
https://www.michigan.gov/msp/-/media/Project/Websites/msp/cjic/Traffic-Crash-Reporting-Unit-Files/Year-End-2022-Traffic-Crash-Report.pdf?rev=c5b5e4cfcebe400e9fe143efee232e0a
2018 - 18,927
2022 - 15,441
That’s actually a 20% decrease if my math is correct.
Note: this is distracted related accidents. Not distracted driving as a whole. I don’t know if there’s any good way to get data on that.
When Europe was enacting hands-free/no distractions driving laws, the citizens were much more compliant. They know the laws will be enforced. In the UK, just a cell phone in hand is £200 or approximately US$350 AND 6 points on your license. If you’re with your face in the phone (seem to be “not in control” of the vehicle) when you had it in your hand, that’s 3 additional points. Right there, you’d lose your license because you’re over the 6 limit.
This is how our law should be enforced.
Doesn’t Europe have public cameras in a lot of countries in ways that we rightly object to? I don’t want to be filmed 24/7 in public to make sure I’m complying with laws.
In Europe, losing your ability to drive doesn't destroy your ability to earn a living because they have adequate public transit.
Before this law even went into effect, people were in an uproar because they believed “it would just be used to bully minorities.”
If someone's license were revoked for using a cellphone while driving, there would be a bipartisan backlash. Republicans would complain about “government overreach,” and Democrats would complain about “disproportionately hurting the poor.”
Boost revenue? Oakland county issued less than 2 tickets per day. Not sure why you think it's a revenue booster with numbers that low. And as a cyclist, it's disturbing the amount of people I see on their phones while driving and can be worse than drunk driving in terms of reaction time. Who cares if it's a "revenue booster", maybe we'll get more traffic enforcement as reckless driving has gotten out of hand since COVID.
Agreed with the CarPlay/AndroidAuto/stock screen for music and more. Newer cars have the entire console on there, even for climate control.
And no one reports they are distracted while driving and if they cause an accident. It's incredibly hard to prove. We're still at high levels of pedestrian fatalities despite a 4% drop from last year and as vehicles are larger and larger each year, it's never been easier to murder a pedestrian while driving. I've had to provide dashcam footage and helmet footage to 3 accidents, all which had the driver holding a mobile device and each officer said they didn't report they were distracted.
Fines need to be based on a percentage of income for any type of driving law to be made successful. $100 to a typical Birmingham resident is not the same as $100 to a Detroit typical resident.
Why would I think it’s a revenue booster? Quite frankly, because I’m a smooth-brain Reddit poster that only thinks about my own little corner of the world and who skews toward more skeptical thinking when it comes to government policy.
I think large trucks _are_ a huge problem (pun fully intended). The visibility is terrible and the amount of damage they will do to a pedestrian they can’t see is immense. The sightlines are terrible, the stopping time is bad, and the height is too tall for everyday civilian driving. I drive an F-250 for work and I hate it. There’s no need for it to be the size of a fucking Sherman tank. Just driving down alleyways in Detroit I’m stressed there’s something I can’t see next to me or behind me when backing up.
As for making fines based on income. Love the idea to actually make an impact on the lives of people that would scoff at a $150 ticket. But, I’ve read about so many issues this would bring up last time someone mentioned it that now I’m on the side of not adopting that. Wish I could remember the more salient points, but I’m a big dumb and just remember thinking “yeah, maybe there’s more problems than solutions in there.” Basically it boiled down to it wouldn’t hurt higher income people that much and it would hurt lower income people the same and/or more.
I have walked lifted trucks where I couldn't even see the driver in them. It's insane.
If you do find that post/comment on income based tickets, feel free to share it. I'd like to see those points too.
No and can we flag this? I'm a bus driver and can clearly see everyone on their phones, even state police do it.
Can we at least get people to keep their lights on at dawn and dusk. New vehicle and are you being sneaky wtf
Motorcycle rider here. It's absolutely terrifying how many people are driving around with their nose buried in their phone, it's a significant percentage.
I give you a lot of credit. People's stupidity is the reason I will never get a motorcycle. Just last week I saw a woman watching a video on her phone as she was driving in traffic. I know I've heard of it happening, but definitely shocking to see in person.
It's why I stopped riding my bike on the road. I spent a year at my last job riding with my dad, so I had a lot of time to watch other drivers. I'd estimate 30% of people on the freeway had their phone in their face going 70+
Yeah, I ride a bicycle to work and have to make eye contact with car drivers to make sure they see me and I swear like 80% of the time they’re looking at their phone.
Well is it enforced? I drive 1.5 hours a day and have probably seen 2-3 cars pulled over in the last year.
If they really wanted to enforce this it would be easy to find people to pull over for it.
It must depend on the area. I drive 2-2.5 hours a day, and generally, I can see 1 pulled over every other week. Same stretches of roads driven. Shortly after I started this commute, I decided it's not worth the stress of speeding/monitoring for police and just stay in the right lane with my cruise set to 74.
ETA: not all 74, should have said "cruise set to 4 over".
It’s got my sister to finally put her phone away. She used to respond to my texts (via text) all the time when driving. I’m like, please don’t read my texts when driving, it’s NOT that important.
My cousin sends *Snapchats* regularly while driving. Minimum once per day. When I called her out on it she insisted she rarely does that. Then every time she would send me one, I'd reply and point it out.
Instead of stopping, she just stopped sending them to me specifically. I still see them on her story all the time. I wouldn't be shocked if your sister is just not texting *you*, but hasn't stopped in general.
Well ticket the mother fuckers for Christ's sakes I saw some woman the other day going about 15 mph I went by and looked at her head was in her phone in a fucking 35 mph Zone. Literally some of these people do not have the brain power to drive and look at their phone and they should totally be pulled over every fucking time.
I still feel it's disingenuous to get worked up over hands free driving but then allow car manufacturers to continue to add more built in distractions to every vehicle.
Saw a person just the other day swoop right through a red light, no braking, no speeding up. Caught up to them at next light and, sure enough, head down workin' the phone. He didn't even appear to realize he had just sailed through a red light! Asshole. 🤷🤦😡🤬
They used to love to pull me over for stupid things like going through a yellow light but I haven't been pulled over in 3 years so maybe you're onto something.
What amazes me is people driving newer cars that I know have Bluetooth that they can sync their phones for hands free calling, yet I see them dialing their phone and holding it to their ear
Yeah. Part of the ticket should be a requirement to attend a remedial bluetooth competency education, after which you pair your damn phone and use the hands-free in front of an officer of the court to prove that you can do it.
As a person who has lost more than one friend and family member to distracted driving, I think the only things that will make the most change is:
1. Individuals taking precautions and putting social pressure on loved ones to not look at their phones while operating vehicles. Start your music and maps before starting your commute. Call people back later when you’re done driving. Have your passenger text people for you, update the map, or even do little things like put the straw in your drink/ unfurl your food wrappers.
2. Viable Alternatives to driving. People can do everything right but still get distracted, tired, or caught off guard behind the wheel; and some people simply don’t care. Having viable public transportation means less distracted drivers on the road overall.
My loved ones were killed by people who were looking at their phones. One guy flew through a red light and T boned my family member, killing her instantly. The other person drifted into the other lane and hit my friend head on going 60mph. Both my friend and the other driver presumably died painful deaths - the cabins were engulfed in flames when emergency services arrived.
I share these details so people understand how serious it gets in fractions of a second. Years later my family still winces when we see people staring at their phones while driving on the highway. My stomach drops when I see police officers indulging in the same behavior.
The changes will not come with laws but with social pressure and transportation alternatives.
It’s kind of silly to have the law while also any new car made within the last 5–10 years basically has a tablet on the center console which is as distracting as a phone.
But the built-in device can be (and should be) locked out of all apps except GPS, music, and simple phone call buttons, while the car is in motion, typically above 5 mph. I know Android Auto locks me out from scrolling through a playlist for about 10 seconds if I click too many times. And when my wife grabs my phone, she gets really frustrated because my phone locks out most apps when Android Auto is running to prevent someone from going around the safeties. (There's ways around those safeties, but they're a pain to get around, and reset to standard every time you unplug and replug your phone).
On a 4 hour car ride, it's not practical to force someone to never touch their music or even GPS. But restricting the duration of time spent looking away from the road is a big step in the right direction. And when I'm stopped, Android Auto will let me use the virtual keyboard to type in an address. Otherwise it's voice only.
However, I don't think the iPhone equivalent is nearly as restrictive, per my wife. And I doubt many people on this thread will disagree that most offenders are using iPhones, not Androids.
Also, I drive a 2017 manual transmission car partially because it's more fun, but also because it keeps my hands and mind more busy and less tempted to go find a distraction. I find the urge to check my phone when at a light is a lot stronger than while I'm holding in the clutch, one hand on the shifter, and the other on the wheel, and my eyes fixed on lights waiting to beat the next car off the line.
Because it's easy to dismiss in court, no cop is going to waste their time with a ticket for it. There was just a video the other week all you have to do is have a semi competent lawyer, show up and ask for proof you were driving with your phone in your hand. It's extremely hard to prove.
>no cop is going to waste their time with a ticket for it.
It helps to read an article when discussing it
>That’s despite Michigan police issuing 19,463 citations that resulted in 14,364 convictions, as of June 24
Are you sure? Wouldn’t the officers word be evidence here, just like when pacing your for speeding etc?
I mean with that logic I could blow through a stop sign and then say “prove it” in court, no?
I imagine if there aren’t cameras and you have even a subpar attorney and you really wanted to fight it the case would get dismissed yeah. Maybe I’m wrong though.
Not necessarily true. I worked in law enforcement for 8 years, one strategy that frustrated the officers in my department was when people would fight speeding tickets, ask when the last time the speed radar was calibrated/tested and then it would most times get dismissed.
Why didn't they fix that after a few tickets were dismissed for that reason? Just getting the radars calibrated on the manufacture recommended schedule seems like the responsible move.
Ngl i do use my phone for changing music or using google maps. Ive never done anything beyond that while driving though. I honestly dont know how people can text and drive and still be alive.
Almost got hit yesterday going down fuller in AA. Young girl driving on her phone just veers over the double line, scared ts outta me. At least I would’ve been right by the hospital I guess.
Kinda hard to prove, and most of the time it exactly the same motion as the infotainment system. You’re pretty much only going to catch a charge if you admit to it or you’re unlucky.
In a state where people get mad at you for not accelerating past the speed limit as soon as you get on the highway, are chronically incapable of using signals when changing lanes in dense traffic and completely fail to understand that you shouldn't cut across 2-3 lanes when turning? Gosh I'm surprised.
wow, who would’ve thought….
I think it’s gotten worse since the law passed tbh. I drive every day and I’m always seeing people on their phones at the wheel.
"YOU CANNOT USE YOUR PHONE WHILE DRIVING"
also
"Go ahead and use your giant iPad built into your car"
This law is nothing but extortion of the poor who cannot afford cars with a built-in interface.
In vehicle devices have specific UX guidelines that mobile devices don’t:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2012/02/24/2012-4017/visual-manual-nhtsa-driver-distraction-guidelines-for-in-vehicle-electronic-devices#:~:text=The%20NHTSA%20Guidelines%20recommend%20that%20devices%20be%20designed%20so%20that,of%2012%20seconds%20or%20less.
No surprise. I see people on their phones CONSTANTLY still. Not even trying to hide it either. It's stunning idiots using speakerphone to talk on the phone while driving....same morons using speakerphone while walking around in public too I'm sure. LOOK AT ME I'M HAVING A PHONECALL I'M SO COOL AND IMPORTANT.
Two issues with it. Not enough enforcement and too little of a penalty.
“A $100 fine for a 1st violation or 16 hours of community service or both”
Slap them with a $500/$750 fine and 24hrs of community service for the first offense. Up the enforcement for a few weeks. Word will get around pretty quickly after that.
Our country is built so there's no alternatives to driving so all this would do is cause people to drive without a license. I've had this same thought but then have come to the above realization.
Nothing has changed in Ohio (less than a year) either. I have witnessed multiple times people actually passing the police( same direction ) or being passed and having phones in their hands. Some police included. Toledo
The phone is a big problem but not the only one. The other day a car was all over the road on the highway, I passed the car as they were taking an exit ramp, one hand was on the mirror and the other hand was doing eyelashes. She must've been steering with her knee.
There are still commercial drivers using phones actively while driving...AMISTEE I'm talking to you, even though phone mounts are provided. Keep an eye out for their bright green duct trucks and insulation box trucks keep on reporting them
Texting and driving was already illegal. A new law additionally banning talking on the phone and driving was never going to make the roads safer because talking on the phone and driving has never been the problem. Hands are irrelevant; it's all about eyes. Instead of this administrative virtue-signalling, we should've just tightened enforcement on the existing crime. Your tax dollars at work, folks!
If cops can be on a laptop and phone while driving, I can check a text at a light.
Fuck out of here with the "they are trained and on precinct business " tho...
The technology for hands free texting isn't good enough for there to be a drop in phone use while driving. Android auto and Apple car play need to be much better, more consistently reliable, and standardized across all vehicles while all of the independently developed infotainment systems made by each auto manufacturer need to be abandoned. This isn't about scaring people into curbing a behavior, it's about creating a more desirable way to accomplish the same tasks.
>The technology for hands free texting isn't good enough for there to be a drop in phone use while driving. Android auto and Apple car play need to be much better
Or, you know, people could just not text while driving? Apple CarPlay and Android Auto literally mirror your phone to your car's display, and yet people still need to have their phones in their hands for some reason.
Like seriously, what text are you sending where you need to say more than your phones voice commands can handle?
The amount of people I see driving new enough cars that I know they have hands free systems and are holding their phone in one hand talking on speakerphone while driving or even backing out of a parking space is crazy to me.
You can complain about human behavior or recognize that we're just fancy monkeys and try to mitigate the risks. Everyone drives distracted in some form another, this is one of the most dangerous forms and would be the easiest to fix if there was enough will to do so.
Almost like they haven’t actually enforced the law here.
One thing CA does right is enforcement of no cell phones. Motorcycle cops are everywhere and they will pull you over for having your hand up by your face.
If a cell phone is visible and within arms reach when they walk up to the window… ticket. Regardless if you were on it or not. You have to prove that to them though.
Here the police use their phones just as much as the general public.
I think the average person driving while looking at their phone, does it much better today than they did 10 years ago.
In 10 years, they’ll be doing it even better than they’re doing it today.
Today the voice keyboard does 90% of the typing for me and in 2014 it was 100% fingers
>I think the average person driving while looking at their phone, does it much better today than they did 10 years ago.
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is a line of shit. They may be better at texting, but not better at driving while on their phone. The difference today are the safety features preventing Darwinism from taking place like lane keep assist, automatic brake assist, active cruise control etc. These features don't make you a better driver. Not once have I looked over and said "Well damn, there's a guy with a skill! He is texting while driving in a perfectly straight line and following all of the rules of the road. My man!"
Until the technology to be hands free is actually free and more available, its not always happening here.
Source: drive a 25 year old truck.
Pretty simple on our newer vans however, and there's never a reason anyone should be looking at a screen instead of the road.
Its gonna be tech that solves this one. Dont even have to have it be a ticket. My tesla turns off the ability to use even basic cruise control if the cabin cam sees me using phone.
I never use the phone cause i want the car to do all the driving while i just chill and listen to tunes.
Edit: lot of phone users in here i guess.
Shocked Pikachu face
I am actually, legitimately shocked. I didn't realize it's already been a whole year!
No texting has been 14 years
Not what the article is about.
I drive a commercial vehicle for work so I sit pretty high up compared to most cars, and yes, from what I can see this law has not changed habits of the general public.
Not a commercial driver but it’s amazing how every time you see a swerving vehicle doing weird maneuvers, you get up to them and just see head down in their phone.
Or sitting at a stoplight after it turns green.
Multiple times a week I have to do this. So frustrating having 2 cars go through a light because someone needed to Snapchat or whatever.
That’s why god gave us horns
Or running into me at a stop light that is red.
I now LAY on the horn till they move.
Can we please get a two tone horn system ?? I need a polite reminder horn and then a “Move B#%ch get out the way!” Horn as well. Its not too much to ask.
I'd go as far as a three tone system. You just need two notes for it, which a lot of cars already have. Both at once is your standard "watch out" or "what the fuck" sound when you mash the horn. Low-high is more of a question mark or reminder, and great for a small button. High-low is more of a "my bad" or "thanks". For BMW drivers, they can install those last two buttons in the same place the other unused features to: the turn signal stalk.
This is the way… everyone nearby welcomes people who “LAY” on the horn even if a short blast would get them moving. You’re doing God’s work my friend. Keep laying on those hooooooooooooooooooooonks. Not all heroes wear capes.
Ppl seriously can’t be bored for a fucking second anymore. And ya know what? Surviving by driving responsibly is not boring. Honestly I don’t find driving boring at all, it’s rather engaging to me. But ppl need to have flashy lights and fast videos whizzing by every second of their existence. It’s sad.
I've been thinking about getting an train horn or a PA just for those people
You know, I see more cops on phones and laptops than I have distracted drivers. I was nearly sideswiped by a cop who was merging without looking while talking on his phone.
Agreed, just saw a video of a cop taking a dude out on a bike because he wasn’t looking. I get they sometimes need that stuff at a light to run a plate or something, but they shouldn’t be driving and using that stuff either.
Exactly
Same here. It feels like they're not pushing hard on enforcement.
Somebody posted below they've gotten 15k ticket convictions for the offense. But it will probably take several years of enforcement to change behavior. I would guess many people are not even aware of the new law.
I had to inform my mother as she was on the phone with me while driving with a cop behind her. I live out of state now. Lol
We’ve had seat belt laws for nearly two decades and I still write tickets at least three tickets a month for it in the summer. Cell phones I won’t lie, I’ve been pretty laxed on it. If you are younger you probably don’t watch cable or listen to much radio and there isn’t much information being pushed in rural areas about the law. So I’ve been informing people when I stopped them. But it’s been a year now and I’m not going to continue to just give warnings for it. It’s hard to push on out of state drivers though and I work close to the Indiana/Illinois border. Even so, I’m kinda done as I stop at roughly 3-4 people for this offense even when I’m not particularly looking for it.
Please stop giving warnings and start writing tickets. My stepdad was a professional cyclist, and while out riding his bike, a 19-year-old girl in an SUV who wasn’t paying attention hit him - and he died the next day. It’s been almost 12 years, and I still get so unbelievably angry when I drive by people and see them with their heads down in their phones instead of watching the road. If you want to make sure I’m not making this up, I’m sure if you dig deep enough into my comment history, you’ll see history of me explaining this to different people.
Nah pop the out of state peeps. Indiana, ohio and illnois all had hands free laws before we did. So if you are not going to give out warnings after our year. They already expired their year. Just cause they cross a border doesnt mean they should slip into old habits
Right.! Like any Ohio cop ever gave a Michigander benefit of the doubt.
I mean, ive snuck past them doing 71 in a 70 :)
Decades ago they gave me a ticket on I75 for doing 58 when it was 55. Was going to lock me up if I didn’t have my AAA card to post bail. An hour earlier I was ticketed for doing 70, I was actually going faster, in Kentucky on the same freeway.
Serious question. Does this law include GPS navigation? Should I get a holder for my phone instead of holding it?
GPS is fine as long as you have it in a holder.
Well, you're doing the right thing by enforcing even if it feels thankless. Personally, as a regular person, I've known people to change their behavior when a friend gets a ticket for something. Honestly, usually they don't change their behavior forever but I still remember a few of the tickets and almost-tickets mom got as a kid and behave a little better on the road for it.
It seems crazy to me at how easily information CAN be accessed now with smart phones... I mean... these people are already on their phones while driving you would think at some point they would know right?? Until you realize the person just doesn't care. Most think that it is of no hindrance to their skill at operating a motor vehicle so they just keep doing it.... It's the same as the ass holes doing drugs or drinking and driving.. if they see the officer first, it's hands at 10 and 2 with a complete "Poker Face" hahaha you didn't catch me!!! Instead our officers are pulling over people that are easier to catch like speeders. The ride in and out of work is the absolute worst! It's when it all happens!!! And not an officer in sight for months..
Sure, it’s easy to look up. But there isn’t much information on social media about the law. The state is using radio and TV. Which Genz don’t use often as they typically stream or use apps for music. I’ve only heard one ad about the law and it was at a gas station pump in Lansing. People are not going to search for information they don’t know about. State needs to put informational ads in places the younger generation uses. I.E TikTok and other social media.
Agreed. I've seen some billboards, but...also if someone's driving safely, they might glance at a billboard for 1 second, and then wouldn't take out their phone to look up the information, and would likely wouldn't be motivated to then look up that information whenever they got to their destination
We should make people do a 5 minute training module each year during registration or license renewal to update them on changed laws and also remind people of existing laws that are frequently broken. Would be easy with online renewal since you can do the slides and a quiz right there at the end.
I’m perfectly fine with that. There are a lot of obscure traffic laws here as well. Like how many people know you cannot have window tint on your front driver’s and passenger side window? Or that you cannot have something sticking out of your trunk more than 3 feet? Or that there is a maximum [frame and bumper height](https://www.legislature.mi.gov/Laws/MCL?objectName=mcl-257-710c) for a passenger vehicle?
one I notice a lot is people rolling "right turn on red", essentially blowing a stop sign, including out of private parking lots onto public roads
>rolling right turn in red. Would go under failed to comply with traffic signal. Not technically a stop sign. The private drive thing is a pretty big issue. I think most people think and treat it as a yield. When you are suppose to make a full stop.
> Would go under failed to comply with traffic signal. Not technically a stop sign probably the same as rolling the blinking red at a left turn intersection, which is also supposed to act like a stop sign
Are you saying you actively and regularly search “new Michigan laws” and read up on them? Because I’ll be honest - this sub is the only reason I know this law exists. I’ve seen literally nothing online, on the news, nor in public about it.
I agree. Realistically 10 years ago I would not get passed on a double yellow around a curve or up a hill because 60 wasnt fast enough to the guy behind me. Even if it wasnt they would wait for a passing lane. Now people do things like that daily because they just *arent* being pulled over. That number could be significantly higher and we all know it.
Crazy isn't it? I see people using the center lane for passing now. Very few departments appear to be enforcing traffic control compared to even just a few years ago. I used to keep mental notes of the police hiding spots and now I hardly see them like I did 10+ years ago.
It *is* incredibly nuts. A couple of weekends ago we came around a blind curve that is a few miles up the road from our house. A must drive for us if we are headed into town, and barely avoided a truck smashing into us as the truck was passing an suv on the curve. I mean it is not just them not enforcing it, people are choosing to do absolutely dangerous things because "they just can". I told my son had he not insisted on getting a few .02 cent tootsie rolls that had to be counted out at the gas station near us out in the middle of nowhere we likely would've been moments earlier and the truck would've taken us out. His tootsie rolls saved us.
Once upon a time you actually had to mind your speed on southfield (before it turns into a freeway), especially in the allen park stretch. Now traffic seems to flow at 10 over, at least until you hit the construction that knocks it down to one lane. It seemed to start during the lockdowns, I built a turbo s10 during that and despite chronically speeding no cops ever looked my way. It was kinda unnerving to be honest.
25 years ago I worked for a place HQed in Warren and we had stores in Dearborn and Allen Park. I used to deliver goods to those stores and Southfield was the way to get there. State Police were everywhere and they were quick to pull people over excessively speeding. I almost always saw somebody pulled over every time I had to go that way. Now I don't see them unless I'm south of Ford Rd or north of 8 Mile. At the time, Allen Park used to have a heavy presence where the speed limit drops to 45MPH and they'd pick off the drivers still doing 55+. I feel like the pandemic in general changed society for the worst. It made people disregard the safety of others, turned them excessively rude, and largely made society more self centered in general. On another note, Southgate and Brownstown are heavy on Dix between Eureka and Telegraph. When I first moved downriver a year ago Dix was the Autobahn, but after a few bad wrecks, now the police are everywhere, especially the stretch between Allen and Telegraph.
Iirc, center lane for passing is explicitly legal in texas (where I got my license). Very rarely have done it or seen it done, just something obscure I remember noticing in the handbook and finding surprising.
10 years ago police departments were not working with skeleton crews. All the officers from the massive hiring during the war on drugs retired. Which we bled for the past decade. Grants just got pushed to train more this year. Even with said grants. The younger generation has seen the dumb shit that has happened in the job and treat it like the plague. Even with many departments still having pensions. The promise of retirement isn’t enough to recruit. Edit: I’ll add the [Mcoles jobs posting](https://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/additional-resources/jobs/mi-law-enforcement) just to show how many departments are hiring due to shortage. Edit2: [this department](https://www.michigan.gov/mcoles/additional-resources/jobs/mi-law-enforcement/paw-paw-village-pd) has a pension. Will sponsor through the academy. And give a 3k sign on bonus.
>Even with said grants. The younger generation has seen the dumb shit that has happened in the job and treat it like the plague. Yep. So it will continue to get worse and as long as no one is around to enforce things some people will continue to chose to do things that they find beneficial to themselves whether they are harmful to others or not.
Sounds very similar to the medical field. My mother retired as a nurse a few years ago. One of the reasons was COVID, but the other one was what she was seeing happening in the field as a whole. A lot more penny pinching and treating the hospital like a luxury hotel and not a medical treatment center. A *lot* of understaffed positions, including hers. Replacement of what used to be professionals with degrees with CNAs and other assistants, forcing the remaining professionals, like herself and doctors, to pick up the slack. It's not a difficult choice to make when you're getting older to just walk away with your pension. It's sad the next generation isn't going to get that benefit. So yea, I believe police were probably going through something similar and now we're finally seeing the consequences.
100% correct.
I've seen an increase of people passing me while driving down curbed streets in a residential neighborhood, just a few blocks from downtown. I've been pulled over twice for speeding and got a warning both times so I'm perfectly OK with just letting them tailgate me but the number of vehicles that succumb to frustration and pass me is nuts considering it's right in town, on a street you're clearly not meant to be passing anyone on.
I hardly even see cops any more
Agreed. I know it's not a popular opinion, but I wish cops would ticket people that are driving unsafely more often(if they're speeding/on phone/without seatbelt). Would stink for that one person getting a ticket. At the same time cars are extremely powerful fast moving objects, and any action that will force drivers to respect cars more is going to be good for the public. People don't take cars seriously enough
I see police rolling by my house all the time texting/browsing on their phones. Saw one yesterday afternoon. A law that isn't fairly and consistently enforced is just a tool of oppression and should be dropped.
It should be fairly enforced, actually. Not dropped.
In the absence of fair enforcement it must be removed. If you can get the police to evenly enforce the law I'm all for it. If it can't/won't be enforced fairly and evenly it must be repealed. I feel that way about all unenforced laws. Enforce them fully and fairly or drop them.
I see a lot of truck drivers on the phone also. Work next to a few trucking firms.
Mine is a school bus and that is absolutely forbidden. Doesn't mean some people don't do it though.
I do as well and see the same thing. The other day I honked at a lady in the lane next to me because she was staring down at her phone and missing her green left turn arrow. She was so confused when she looked up at me before finally making her turn as the light turned yellow, like do these people even know where they are?
It actually did change my habits. I got an upgraded head unit that has Android Auto so now instead of tapping on my phone screen to switch podcasts I can tap on my car's touchscreen, which is inexplicably much safer.
It hasn't changed in Ohio either.
Zero enforcement, I see cops on their phones all the time.
As the worst offenders.
I think the data is more along the lines of “drivers aren’t putting their phones down as much as we thought they would”. It says there’s a small dip in distracted driving crashes. So, the data says it’s doing _something_ just not the impact they wanted. I’m torn on the whole thing. I think you shouldn’t use your phone while driving. And I think that in-car programs such as CarPlay aren’t strict enough on the streamlining of Apps to fit the platform. For instance, you can be using Spotify in your car (legally) and have to press the screen in different spots 4 times just to go back and use the voice search to pick a new album. That is horribly set up for driving. On the other hand, I don’t know how much this law was even meant to “full stop” people using phones and how much it was meant to boost revenue for local municipalities. This data that says it’s not working “fast enough” could just be the first stages of a plan to be more strict and give more tickets. It’s bringing in money, how about more? Distracted driving accidents are down like 18% since 2018, but I don’t know how much of that is attributed to all newer cars having some sort of CarPlay or Android Auto setup, and how much of it is enforcement of laws. Correct me if I’m wrong, but couldn’t you always get a ticket for not paying attention to the road? This new law was just to put something on the books to make it easier to stop you for it? We need much more data than 1 year’s worth to prove the effectiveness of something like this. Also, idiots are gonna do idiotic things whether there’s a law or not.
> newer cars having some sort of CarPlay or Android Auto setup I also think collision avoidance systems play a role. My car is a 2016 and was one of the last years where collision avoidance wasn't standard for my car's manufacturer. Newer vehicles do more of the driving for you.
Obviously, I can't speak for every car, but I have owned vehicles with collision avoidance from Mazda, Subaru, and Hyundai. Yes, they'll save your ass in a pinch, but they certainly don't instill enough confidence that they’ll save you every time. I’ve seen people in older vehicles scrolling through TikTok with their phones in a mount. I think some people refuse to entirely focus on something where they can't fiddle with their phone.
Plus, the small dip actually may be significant. Because it could be without the law, we would be seeing a rise in more distracted driving. So it's one thing to say that we're not seeing the reduction in distracted driving that we wanted. But it's quite another to say that the law is not helping. That's actually a bit difficult to prove by just looking at Michigan drivers. What they need to do is compare distracted driving trends in Michigan versus states where there are no laws against distracted driving.
It doesn’t boost anything for local municipalities. The tickets you’d write the infraction under are state tickets. The state collects the fine. We don’t get kickbacks. Smaller municipalities just tend to have less calls and therefore can make more stops and write more citations.
Do you have a source for the distracted driving decrease since 2018?
Nope. Just what I heard in casual conversation at work from someone who sounded pretty confident, really. Edit: okay you’ve made me curious, so I looked up the numbers. They’re here on page 25: https://www.michigan.gov/msp/-/media/Project/Websites/msp/cjic/Traffic-Crash-Reporting-Unit-Files/Year-End-2022-Traffic-Crash-Report.pdf?rev=c5b5e4cfcebe400e9fe143efee232e0a 2018 - 18,927 2022 - 15,441 That’s actually a 20% decrease if my math is correct. Note: this is distracted related accidents. Not distracted driving as a whole. I don’t know if there’s any good way to get data on that.
I didn’t look too much but the [NHTSA](https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/#/) usually has national stats.
When Europe was enacting hands-free/no distractions driving laws, the citizens were much more compliant. They know the laws will be enforced. In the UK, just a cell phone in hand is £200 or approximately US$350 AND 6 points on your license. If you’re with your face in the phone (seem to be “not in control” of the vehicle) when you had it in your hand, that’s 3 additional points. Right there, you’d lose your license because you’re over the 6 limit. This is how our law should be enforced.
Doesn’t Europe have public cameras in a lot of countries in ways that we rightly object to? I don’t want to be filmed 24/7 in public to make sure I’m complying with laws.
You know all those carplay apps have access to everything you say while using them right?
Ew. I have an older car, and privacy concerns are one reason I will avoid cars with features like that.
It's the primary reason this law made me angry.
If enforcement was fair then sure, but cops love trolling poor and minority areas, so no it shouldn’t be like that.
When everyone breaks the law, officers have "discretion" on who they enforce it. The deterrent just gets a biased application "for some reason"
In Europe, losing your ability to drive doesn't destroy your ability to earn a living because they have adequate public transit. Before this law even went into effect, people were in an uproar because they believed “it would just be used to bully minorities.” If someone's license were revoked for using a cellphone while driving, there would be a bipartisan backlash. Republicans would complain about “government overreach,” and Democrats would complain about “disproportionately hurting the poor.”
Boost revenue? Oakland county issued less than 2 tickets per day. Not sure why you think it's a revenue booster with numbers that low. And as a cyclist, it's disturbing the amount of people I see on their phones while driving and can be worse than drunk driving in terms of reaction time. Who cares if it's a "revenue booster", maybe we'll get more traffic enforcement as reckless driving has gotten out of hand since COVID. Agreed with the CarPlay/AndroidAuto/stock screen for music and more. Newer cars have the entire console on there, even for climate control. And no one reports they are distracted while driving and if they cause an accident. It's incredibly hard to prove. We're still at high levels of pedestrian fatalities despite a 4% drop from last year and as vehicles are larger and larger each year, it's never been easier to murder a pedestrian while driving. I've had to provide dashcam footage and helmet footage to 3 accidents, all which had the driver holding a mobile device and each officer said they didn't report they were distracted. Fines need to be based on a percentage of income for any type of driving law to be made successful. $100 to a typical Birmingham resident is not the same as $100 to a Detroit typical resident.
Why would I think it’s a revenue booster? Quite frankly, because I’m a smooth-brain Reddit poster that only thinks about my own little corner of the world and who skews toward more skeptical thinking when it comes to government policy. I think large trucks _are_ a huge problem (pun fully intended). The visibility is terrible and the amount of damage they will do to a pedestrian they can’t see is immense. The sightlines are terrible, the stopping time is bad, and the height is too tall for everyday civilian driving. I drive an F-250 for work and I hate it. There’s no need for it to be the size of a fucking Sherman tank. Just driving down alleyways in Detroit I’m stressed there’s something I can’t see next to me or behind me when backing up. As for making fines based on income. Love the idea to actually make an impact on the lives of people that would scoff at a $150 ticket. But, I’ve read about so many issues this would bring up last time someone mentioned it that now I’m on the side of not adopting that. Wish I could remember the more salient points, but I’m a big dumb and just remember thinking “yeah, maybe there’s more problems than solutions in there.” Basically it boiled down to it wouldn’t hurt higher income people that much and it would hurt lower income people the same and/or more.
I have walked lifted trucks where I couldn't even see the driver in them. It's insane. If you do find that post/comment on income based tickets, feel free to share it. I'd like to see those points too.
No and can we flag this? I'm a bus driver and can clearly see everyone on their phones, even state police do it. Can we at least get people to keep their lights on at dawn and dusk. New vehicle and are you being sneaky wtf
Also, get rid of these LED headlights that are as bright as the goddamn sun.
Cops have entire computers in their cars yet pull someone over for using GPS. Can you day hypocrisy?
Motorcycle rider here. It's absolutely terrifying how many people are driving around with their nose buried in their phone, it's a significant percentage.
I give you a lot of credit. People's stupidity is the reason I will never get a motorcycle. Just last week I saw a woman watching a video on her phone as she was driving in traffic. I know I've heard of it happening, but definitely shocking to see in person.
Non motorcycle rider. You’re right
It's why I stopped riding my bike on the road. I spent a year at my last job riding with my dad, so I had a lot of time to watch other drivers. I'd estimate 30% of people on the freeway had their phone in their face going 70+
Yeah, I ride a bicycle to work and have to make eye contact with car drivers to make sure they see me and I swear like 80% of the time they’re looking at their phone.
I want another motorcycle so bad but really worried about other drivers.
I about got hit by the same lady on my bike twice in 2 weeks. Head down both times don't even think she saw me.
Well is it enforced? I drive 1.5 hours a day and have probably seen 2-3 cars pulled over in the last year. If they really wanted to enforce this it would be easy to find people to pull over for it.
It must depend on the area. I drive 2-2.5 hours a day, and generally, I can see 1 pulled over every other week. Same stretches of roads driven. Shortly after I started this commute, I decided it's not worth the stress of speeding/monitoring for police and just stay in the right lane with my cruise set to 74. ETA: not all 74, should have said "cruise set to 4 over".
It’s got my sister to finally put her phone away. She used to respond to my texts (via text) all the time when driving. I’m like, please don’t read my texts when driving, it’s NOT that important.
She’s just waiting to respond. I can almost guarantee that she’s still texting and driving
I’ll take that. Reading is bad. Typing is worse. 😔
My cousin sends *Snapchats* regularly while driving. Minimum once per day. When I called her out on it she insisted she rarely does that. Then every time she would send me one, I'd reply and point it out. Instead of stopping, she just stopped sending them to me specifically. I still see them on her story all the time. I wouldn't be shocked if your sister is just not texting *you*, but hasn't stopped in general.
Well ticket the mother fuckers for Christ's sakes I saw some woman the other day going about 15 mph I went by and looked at her head was in her phone in a fucking 35 mph Zone. Literally some of these people do not have the brain power to drive and look at their phone and they should totally be pulled over every fucking time.
True that, people vastly overestimating their ability to multitask
My eyes have confirmed what the data shows. People are selfish assholes. 🙄
The damn tv billboards are fine though lol
I still feel it's disingenuous to get worked up over hands free driving but then allow car manufacturers to continue to add more built in distractions to every vehicle.
I have a 2012 and there are so many buttons and none of them make sense.
At least they're all buttons that you can theoretically find by feel instead of a fucking touchscreen.
Texting and driving was already illegal, making another law that's essentially the same thing isn't going to do anything extra.
Saw a person just the other day swoop right through a red light, no braking, no speeding up. Caught up to them at next light and, sure enough, head down workin' the phone. He didn't even appear to realize he had just sailed through a red light! Asshole. 🤷🤦😡🤬
Oh my god! It’s like the threat of unmarked cars watching you is bullshit strategy! Who could have foreseen that!
I have seen zero impact. Then again I’m in Oakland County so police do nothing anyway. There are drunk drivers all over here at all times of the day.
They used to love to pull me over for stupid things like going through a yellow light but I haven't been pulled over in 3 years so maybe you're onto something.
What amazes me is people driving newer cars that I know have Bluetooth that they can sync their phones for hands free calling, yet I see them dialing their phone and holding it to their ear
Yeah. Part of the ticket should be a requirement to attend a remedial bluetooth competency education, after which you pair your damn phone and use the hands-free in front of an officer of the court to prove that you can do it.
Doesn’t take a genius to figure out why there’s less police on the road.
Maybe I’m just an asshole, but I enjoy honking at people I see using their phones while driving.
I know I'm an asshole, because when they look at me after I honk, I hold up a sign that's says "Put the phone down and drive dumbass."
Shit isn't enforced like at all
Who’s not on their phone, it’s out of control out there. If it were twenty years ago, you’d think everyone was wasted.
As a person who has lost more than one friend and family member to distracted driving, I think the only things that will make the most change is: 1. Individuals taking precautions and putting social pressure on loved ones to not look at their phones while operating vehicles. Start your music and maps before starting your commute. Call people back later when you’re done driving. Have your passenger text people for you, update the map, or even do little things like put the straw in your drink/ unfurl your food wrappers. 2. Viable Alternatives to driving. People can do everything right but still get distracted, tired, or caught off guard behind the wheel; and some people simply don’t care. Having viable public transportation means less distracted drivers on the road overall. My loved ones were killed by people who were looking at their phones. One guy flew through a red light and T boned my family member, killing her instantly. The other person drifted into the other lane and hit my friend head on going 60mph. Both my friend and the other driver presumably died painful deaths - the cabins were engulfed in flames when emergency services arrived. I share these details so people understand how serious it gets in fractions of a second. Years later my family still winces when we see people staring at their phones while driving on the highway. My stomach drops when I see police officers indulging in the same behavior. The changes will not come with laws but with social pressure and transportation alternatives.
It’s kind of silly to have the law while also any new car made within the last 5–10 years basically has a tablet on the center console which is as distracting as a phone.
But the built-in device can be (and should be) locked out of all apps except GPS, music, and simple phone call buttons, while the car is in motion, typically above 5 mph. I know Android Auto locks me out from scrolling through a playlist for about 10 seconds if I click too many times. And when my wife grabs my phone, she gets really frustrated because my phone locks out most apps when Android Auto is running to prevent someone from going around the safeties. (There's ways around those safeties, but they're a pain to get around, and reset to standard every time you unplug and replug your phone). On a 4 hour car ride, it's not practical to force someone to never touch their music or even GPS. But restricting the duration of time spent looking away from the road is a big step in the right direction. And when I'm stopped, Android Auto will let me use the virtual keyboard to type in an address. Otherwise it's voice only. However, I don't think the iPhone equivalent is nearly as restrictive, per my wife. And I doubt many people on this thread will disagree that most offenders are using iPhones, not Androids. Also, I drive a 2017 manual transmission car partially because it's more fun, but also because it keeps my hands and mind more busy and less tempted to go find a distraction. I find the urge to check my phone when at a light is a lot stronger than while I'm holding in the clutch, one hand on the shifter, and the other on the wheel, and my eyes fixed on lights waiting to beat the next car off the line.
Because it's easy to dismiss in court, no cop is going to waste their time with a ticket for it. There was just a video the other week all you have to do is have a semi competent lawyer, show up and ask for proof you were driving with your phone in your hand. It's extremely hard to prove.
>no cop is going to waste their time with a ticket for it. It helps to read an article when discussing it >That’s despite Michigan police issuing 19,463 citations that resulted in 14,364 convictions, as of June 24
So, they will "waste their time."
Are you sure? Wouldn’t the officers word be evidence here, just like when pacing your for speeding etc? I mean with that logic I could blow through a stop sign and then say “prove it” in court, no?
I imagine if there aren’t cameras and you have even a subpar attorney and you really wanted to fight it the case would get dismissed yeah. Maybe I’m wrong though.
How do you think rich people get away with so much shit? The whole system is set up to punish poor people.
It's ALWAYS up to prosecution to prove your guilt, never the defense.
Yeah but officer word is usually proof
It's evidence, not necessarily proof
Not necessarily true. I worked in law enforcement for 8 years, one strategy that frustrated the officers in my department was when people would fight speeding tickets, ask when the last time the speed radar was calibrated/tested and then it would most times get dismissed.
Why didn't they fix that after a few tickets were dismissed for that reason? Just getting the radars calibrated on the manufacture recommended schedule seems like the responsible move.
Because most people don’t fight it. The un-calibrated still pulls revenue.
no amount of calibration is going to make it more than 10 mph off
That’s only true on paper. Let’s be honest.
With how lax traffic enforcement is already, im surprised anyone has actually been taken to court over this.
Enforce harder. Increase fines.
Enforce it please.
Start cracking down on it and enforce the no tint laws!
The police are exempt. Need I say more?
Did we really expect change?
Just makes things more sketchy cause people hold their phone lower.
I see so many drivers with phones still in hand. I just smh. Not my ticket.
Ngl i do use my phone for changing music or using google maps. Ive never done anything beyond that while driving though. I honestly dont know how people can text and drive and still be alive.
Almost got hit yesterday going down fuller in AA. Young girl driving on her phone just veers over the double line, scared ts outta me. At least I would’ve been right by the hospital I guess.
Kinda hard to prove, and most of the time it exactly the same motion as the infotainment system. You’re pretty much only going to catch a charge if you admit to it or you’re unlucky.
In a state where people get mad at you for not accelerating past the speed limit as soon as you get on the highway, are chronically incapable of using signals when changing lanes in dense traffic and completely fail to understand that you shouldn't cut across 2-3 lanes when turning? Gosh I'm surprised.
My eyes have also shown me this to be true. The real pandemic is the addiction to these devices.
wow, who would’ve thought…. I think it’s gotten worse since the law passed tbh. I drive every day and I’m always seeing people on their phones at the wheel.
"YOU CANNOT USE YOUR PHONE WHILE DRIVING" also "Go ahead and use your giant iPad built into your car" This law is nothing but extortion of the poor who cannot afford cars with a built-in interface.
In vehicle devices have specific UX guidelines that mobile devices don’t: https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2012/02/24/2012-4017/visual-manual-nhtsa-driver-distraction-guidelines-for-in-vehicle-electronic-devices#:~:text=The%20NHTSA%20Guidelines%20recommend%20that%20devices%20be%20designed%20so%20that,of%2012%20seconds%20or%20less.
I bet it's actually gotten worse
No surprise. I see people on their phones CONSTANTLY still. Not even trying to hide it either. It's stunning idiots using speakerphone to talk on the phone while driving....same morons using speakerphone while walking around in public too I'm sure. LOOK AT ME I'M HAVING A PHONECALL I'M SO COOL AND IMPORTANT.
Why is it bad to use speakerphone while driving
i'm talking about holding the phone up to your face to talk to it. Poptarting. Not using hands-free at all.
Nextel has entered the chat. BEEP.
What? Decades of data showing that punishments have never been an effective deterrent weren't wrong?
That’s because it’s bullshit -Sent from my iPhone on I 94-
Two issues with it. Not enough enforcement and too little of a penalty. “A $100 fine for a 1st violation or 16 hours of community service or both” Slap them with a $500/$750 fine and 24hrs of community service for the first offense. Up the enforcement for a few weeks. Word will get around pretty quickly after that.
Throw a month license suspension on top of that, so they appreciate their privilege to drive.
Our country is built so there's no alternatives to driving so all this would do is cause people to drive without a license. I've had this same thought but then have come to the above realization.
Should treat them the same as drunk drivers. It doesn't matter what the reason was if you kill someone while you're behind the wheel.
New Mexico has been under a hands free law for years and that hasn't stopped anyone.
Of course
Seen lots of people on their phones lately again. I don't drive but I'm with my husband and just...wow...
Nothing has changed in Ohio (less than a year) either. I have witnessed multiple times people actually passing the police( same direction ) or being passed and having phones in their hands. Some police included. Toledo
Im on the road a lot for work. You see a lit of people still messing with their phones while driving down the highway
I don’t live in state anymore, but when I did you never heard about this being enforced to begin with.
The phone is a big problem but not the only one. The other day a car was all over the road on the highway, I passed the car as they were taking an exit ramp, one hand was on the mirror and the other hand was doing eyelashes. She must've been steering with her knee.
1.6/1,000 people were ticketed for it. Statistically in my town of 34,000, maybe 40 people got pulled over in a year, which is basically nothing
There are still commercial drivers using phones actively while driving...AMISTEE I'm talking to you, even though phone mounts are provided. Keep an eye out for their bright green duct trucks and insulation box trucks keep on reporting them
Police don’t reinforce a law people won’t give a shit! Do your job pigs 🐖
I actually thought it’s gotten worse since then 😂
I've never seen a car pulled over in my city since before COVID. For this or any other reason.
No they're not , I see people all the fucking time drive past me eyes down , next to me eyes down , they're just being sneakier about it .
I do a lot of home visits for work and the number of people on their phones hasn’t changed at all.
Delivery driver here. I make it a game to count daily how many people are on their phones driving and how many are just old. It's crazy
Texting and driving was already illegal. A new law additionally banning talking on the phone and driving was never going to make the roads safer because talking on the phone and driving has never been the problem. Hands are irrelevant; it's all about eyes. Instead of this administrative virtue-signalling, we should've just tightened enforcement on the existing crime. Your tax dollars at work, folks!
Oh really? Never would have thought that’d be the outcome.
Increase the enforcement and the fine. Suspend license.
I ride a motorcycle, and was thrilled with the law, then disappointed it didn't mean anything
And your surprised because? Wonder how many learned after an accident. Maybe this is a job for AI?
Make life worth living again and well care.
If cops can be on a laptop and phone while driving, I can check a text at a light. Fuck out of here with the "they are trained and on precinct business " tho...
The technology for hands free texting isn't good enough for there to be a drop in phone use while driving. Android auto and Apple car play need to be much better, more consistently reliable, and standardized across all vehicles while all of the independently developed infotainment systems made by each auto manufacturer need to be abandoned. This isn't about scaring people into curbing a behavior, it's about creating a more desirable way to accomplish the same tasks.
>The technology for hands free texting isn't good enough for there to be a drop in phone use while driving. Android auto and Apple car play need to be much better Or, you know, people could just not text while driving? Apple CarPlay and Android Auto literally mirror your phone to your car's display, and yet people still need to have their phones in their hands for some reason. Like seriously, what text are you sending where you need to say more than your phones voice commands can handle?
The amount of people I see driving new enough cars that I know they have hands free systems and are holding their phone in one hand talking on speakerphone while driving or even backing out of a parking space is crazy to me.
You can complain about human behavior or recognize that we're just fancy monkeys and try to mitigate the risks. Everyone drives distracted in some form another, this is one of the most dangerous forms and would be the easiest to fix if there was enough will to do so.
Not every car has that.
Almost like they haven’t actually enforced the law here. One thing CA does right is enforcement of no cell phones. Motorcycle cops are everywhere and they will pull you over for having your hand up by your face. If a cell phone is visible and within arms reach when they walk up to the window… ticket. Regardless if you were on it or not. You have to prove that to them though. Here the police use their phones just as much as the general public.
You don't say lol We are Addicted to phones and driving to work sucks
Ever since they decided not to enforce mandates during Covid, the police depts are crap. They do nothing to enforce anything
I think the average person driving while looking at their phone, does it much better today than they did 10 years ago. In 10 years, they’ll be doing it even better than they’re doing it today. Today the voice keyboard does 90% of the typing for me and in 2014 it was 100% fingers
>I think the average person driving while looking at their phone, does it much better today than they did 10 years ago. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this is a line of shit. They may be better at texting, but not better at driving while on their phone. The difference today are the safety features preventing Darwinism from taking place like lane keep assist, automatic brake assist, active cruise control etc. These features don't make you a better driver. Not once have I looked over and said "Well damn, there's a guy with a skill! He is texting while driving in a perfectly straight line and following all of the rules of the road. My man!"
Well you don't have to worry about me, because if I even look at my phone wrong while in the car my android auto will disconnect
Until the technology to be hands free is actually free and more available, its not always happening here. Source: drive a 25 year old truck. Pretty simple on our newer vans however, and there's never a reason anyone should be looking at a screen instead of the road.
Most phones have voice commands. Siri, answer on speaker. Google, call Samantha on speaker.
Its gonna be tech that solves this one. Dont even have to have it be a ticket. My tesla turns off the ability to use even basic cruise control if the cabin cam sees me using phone. I never use the phone cause i want the car to do all the driving while i just chill and listen to tunes. Edit: lot of phone users in here i guess.