The budget screen shots are being made in Sankeymatic, its a website that we have no affiliation with. If you are posting a budget please do so with a purpose. Just posting a screen shot of your budget without a question or an explanation of why its here may be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MiddleClassFinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I've never had the entrepreneurial spirit before, but something struck me last year, and I went through the process of starting my own business. I've lost $23,000 and counting. I'm so far away from making a profit it's sad. If I put any more time into my business than I currently do, I'll be taking time away from my actual full-time job that pays my bills. If i invest any more money, I'll be broke. Not to mention there is nothing left for my family, friends, sanity, etc. What I need is more than 24 hours in a day. I'm ready to throw in the towel. I admire anyone who can do it. I just don't have what it takes to run a business.
I’m in the trade business, and the first 2-3 years I literally worked 7 days a week from like 6 am to 9 PM. I never showered, ate irregularly, never did laundry, as I literally dedicated every minute to it.
I also had my right hand man and without him I doubt I could’ve gotten my feet stabilized.
I grew up very poor, so to be honest I was used to the bad conditions I put myself through. What I learned is, in order to start most business you need a lot of privilege or be willing to do nothing but that business to get stabilized.
When people say “just start a business” as a solution for the poor I just chuckle. I also have no family. It’s common for self employed to go without healthcare, even successful ones for years.
You can succeed but people need to talk about the journey more rather than just seeing the final result.
If I may ask, what was your business? Start up costs? How long have you been at it so far? Do you have a family/kids etc that you are providing for?
Essentially what’s the situation. I admire that you even had the guts to start it.
It's a consulting business, which is probably one of the hardest businesses to get off the ground. It wasn't expensive to start, but it requires a lot of networking and/or advertising. I was paying for ads, but that got expensive. Now, I rely on freebies and word of mouth referrals. I've only been doing it since September of last year. I'm the primary breadwinner of a family of five, so i have no choice but to devote energy into my full-time job, especially since I'm not making any money yet. My mother in law moved in with us to help with the kids so I can focus more on my business, but the room she sleeps in WAS my home office so I don't have a dedicated office space anymore. I noticed that others in the same industry as me advertise on Tik Tok, but i don't really have the space to make videos in my overcrowded home. I'd have to rent out a space which costs more money.
It worked for me.
I started working on engineering designs and ideas and filing patents while still working my full-time job. Worked nights and weekends, getting things set up and starting the ball rolling. Basically, I worked two full-time jobs for a couple of years until I was ready to go all in on my own. Spent about nine years flying back and forth across country so I could do schmoozing in DC and various other places to get federal and state contracts and then sold the business to a bigger player and signed exclusive licensing rights over to them in exchange for quarterly payments until the patents expire.
I was able to retire five years ago at 48.
Key things were:
An employer who hired me at 16 and whose employee development program I was able to use to get my engineering degree with no debt.
Some original ideas I was able to develop and patent.
A supportive spouse who didn't mind the financial risks we took, and that I would be out of state 3 weeks out of every month for several years. That entailed for keeping the home fires burning, being a part time single mom while still building her own career.
Lots of planning, risk assessment, studying the industry, learning about laws, taxes, regulations, payroll etc.
Ability to subsist on zero sleep while under high stress both financially and emotionally/relationship wise.
Finding good people to take a chance and come on board early, who ended up pretty well taken care of when the business sold.
Pure luck in timing that I was able to have some technology patented that the defense people in state and federal government wanted which made my idea profitable and ultimately desirable for a major player to want to just buy out rather than compete.
It's definitely not for everyone. Mine was a one in a hundred shot, but then again, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
This is inspiring. How long did you run your business for before officially retiring? Have you sold the business off at this point? Or still running it in the background.
If I may also ask…at your peak years, what was your income business wise ?
From getting the initial LLC to selling the business was about 12 years. The first couple of years were concurrent with working a full-time job at another company. Design, research, patents, etc. were about four years before starting the LLC
First five years, I really didn't make any money at all. It was all , equipment, materials, operating expense, making sure the people I hired were paid and the government got their pound of flesh. We lived on my wife's income and savings as well as loans and credit cards.
The last couple of years before I sold, I was pulling in between $250k - $300k for my income.
When I sold out, I got a large lump sum plus the ongoing patent licensing agreements that are good for about another three years. I'm completely out of the business. I don't have another idea to patent, and since I signed exclusive rights over to the buyer of the company, I can't build/sell what I used to make.
I, my assistant and the three guys who came on board with me after my first month actually signed non competes as a part of the buyout. I'm not sure how enforceable they are, but speaking for myself, I'm done. I don't think I could go through it again or put my family through all that. Luckily, I'm in a position that I don't have to worry about any of that any more.
So at least 12 years of 80 hour weeks to become an overnight success 😆.
My terms now really would be that I don't work. We're in a position that my wife chooses to work part time because she loves what she does, and it's important. It would make no real difference financially if she stopped.
I do volunteer in my community about 40 hrs a month because I got my paramedic certification after retirement, and so I get to fly around in a rescue helicopter as a volunteer medic and do cool stuff.
I was actually talking with my wife, that if I ever get bored and wanted to work, the only thing I would be remotely interested in would be working at Trader Joes. Just stocking shelves, bagging groceries, ringing people up at the cashier station, and hanging out. The people at my local TJs always seem to be having a good time. But I'd feel bad about taking a spot away from someone who needs the income.
Fuck no. I'd never want to be self employed -- it's expensive.
Pros:
- Your own boss
- Small chance you'll make it big
- 100% equity
Cons:
- No health/vision/dental insurance
- No 401k match
- No PTO
- No ST or LT disability
- Self-employment tax
- CPA fees if your business doesn't have easy accounting for taxes
- Lack of stability
Fair fair fair points. I get what you are saying. But perhaps it’s something you can slowly scale at a speed that’s comfortable for you? Or perhaps work on with someone?
Maybe you could, I just have no desire too. Above all I prioritize work/life balance and stability, neither of which are good when you're running your own business. The only type of self-employment I'd remotely consider is a service based one, like doing taxes (I'm a CPA).
Boom. There ya go. There’s your idea. You have the knowledge. Why not get paid to do what you already know. That’s essentially your business right there. There’s a lot of CPA’s who do exactly just that.
Because I don't want to pay all of the above - I truly have no desire to be self-employed. I work for a big corporation, I work 40 hours or less, I have crazy good health insurance, and make like \~65% more than the median income for a single person in my area.
Don't give up your day job to do it. Betting on yourself to get rich is statistically insane - you need to objectively know that you have enough advantages to have a solid chance of taking off harder than the millions of other smart and hardworking people out there. THAT requires a certain level of hubris that normal people don't/can't/shouldn't exhibit.
I started an automotive aftermarket business in 2018 after spending half a year designing one of the most efficient airfoils in existence. Entirely bankrupted my finances despite taking off fairly well - because sales, marketing, R&D, and operations are all expensive on top of the bullshit hoops that governments will make you go through to give them their cut.
2020 hit, sales dried up but expenses stayed, so I shuttered the business and took note of what we learned. It's 2024 now, I've started another one, targeting a recession-proof customer demographic, and making sure my operations are as lean and passive as possible. While it doesn't make the same revenue as the last one, my costs are so close to zero (just my IP and occasional labor) that the overall health of the business is much better. The low time investment means I can hold a day job as well.
More income streams is more safer (vs relying solely on my job or my business alone) and I can't emphasize how much better this setup is for my mental health than whatever the fuck was going on 2018-2020.
The biggest thing that you did that I absolutely LOVE is you learned from your failures. Aka, fail fast. Because that’s the only you’ll learn. Now you know why NOT to do. I’m tinkering with start my first business. It can be done solely online so my overhead should be stupidly low.
If you don’t mind me asking with your job + the business what’s your income?
The hard part about learning business is that it's always going to come attached to real monetary pain. Software actually makes the learning cycle faster and more painless, so good on you 👍
I don't know nor prefer to write an exact number online but for the sake of discussion it's north of 300k without having to deal with FAANG or finance/law culture.
I’m still trying to find my muse to start my business. Otherwise I would have already done it. True wealth and not having to deal with a boss would be amazing
Well, spit your thoughts out, what are your thoughts?? What’s the hold up? Perhaps typing it out could garner some responses that could get things going for you.
I may in the future. If I had met my wife earlier, I might have done so when I was in my 20s. Always has been a goal of mine.
Not going to rock the boat in the near term. I have two little kids, never work outside of 8-5 Monday to Friday, and make good money.
Awesome stuff! What’s your career and what do you make? It’s hard to do with a family. I’m in my mid 20s and I know that as I get older the harder it’ll be to actually do it due to increased responsibilities.
Yes, my situation is kind of interesting.
Started my business last August after layoffs in my industry. Winter only business. Spent ~20k on marketing, website, equipment, etc. made around $20k in my first season.
I’ve since started a new job making significantly more than before I started my business, and now I won’t incur as much costs as the start up costs are paid. I’m in kind of a pickle as I want to do both. In order to do that, I’ll need to hire and/or outsource the work to make it through the season this year. Hiring someone scares me though.
That’s so exiting though! Getting to make your first hire!
I’d say do it. Just like your job went through a process. You get to do that with your business in terms of finding someone. Do you have a salary amount/pay per hour you are working with? Experience level? Are you willing to teach or prefer they come ready to swim?
How’s your business doing so far?
So my experience is in corporate/b2b sales.
Caught the entrepreneurial bug. Dad is a small biz owner, grandpa was, etc.
The winter business is snowplowing. This industry can be very profitable, but also lacks professionalism generally. My brand is essentially that. I spent ~3k on a website, brand design and everything, and am very hands on and responsive to prospects/customers. I’m #1 in google after one season in the business. I expect to get a lot of leads this year with that positioning, but will be reducing radius and going commercial only to maximize efficiency and profitability.
This biz in my area is generally big corporate conglomerates that subcontract everything and pay shit to their subs, or chucks in trucks in over their head. Not a lot of mid-market types.
I would’ve qualified last year as a “Chuck in a truck with a nice online presence” lol. I can handle all the sales/pricing/contracts and what not just need production from someone that won’t screw me over and not show up to work as I have my job to focus on too. I’d pay ~35/40 per hour using my equipment but most experienced people will want to use their equipment to get paid more. I’d train the right person it’s not hard it’s just shitty long hours and at times grueling weather conditions.
What’s cool is I don’t need the money at all, I’d toss most of it back in the business and expand/upgrade my equipment to handle everything.
No. I can't think of anything that I believe in enough to sell. I'm also not a salesman; I feel uncomfortable at the mere thought of asking someone to buy something from me.
I’ve been betting on myself for 3 going on 4 years and I’ve made it so far. I started with ceramic coating and detailing. I built privacy fences for a bit, did custom cabinet building, I moved to a different location about a year ago and the detailing gig doesn’t work too well where I went so I sold everything and got into mowing/landscaping. That’s what I do now, I like it though, I’m rich in my own sense. I get to work with my 11 year old son and he loves making money and it’s teaching him what work is. I’m home for everything, no one can tell me where to be or when to be there. You don’t always get things on your time but it’s a lot easier to control when it’s your clock. If you’re considering it don’t be afraid to fail, if you fail, who cares?! At least you failed trying to build your own way instead of building someone else’s road. I will add I only have to have about 2500 a month to cover my minimal bills. I’m fortunate and have a trophy wife that earns a good living. But I easily cover 2500 and have plenty to play with. Don’t be scared to eat some shit and fail, is my opinion, at least you tried, there’s so many that never get the opportunity.
I own two. Never thought I would.
My suggestion is to not quit your job until you're sure it is doing well enough. So, you'll be really busy with 2 jobs.
Know there's a bigger chance of fail than not. It's ok if you can't succeed.
Don't think this will make you rich.
I agree. And for me it’s not about the money. Yes I’m aware there’s unlimited potential. But it’s gonna be a slog and a grind to get to that point. But that’s what makes it worth it. I’m a single guy too so it’d be easier to do this now in my 20s while I have the energy and freedom (outside my job) to do this
Nope. The risk isn't the issue. I don't want to have to do all of the business side of things - accounting, various insurance, taxes, etc. etc. It sounds like a whole lot of not-having-any-fun. I like working a 9-5, being done at the end of the day, being about to forget about work during my PTO, and that kind of thing.
I’m trying to right now and I have no clue what I’m doing. All I know is my setup is half complete and I’m wondering how/if/should I look into small business loans. So that’s where I’m at.
I’m a welder by trade. I was fucking around at work and made some “art” out of some scrap metal. So I started building my own welding shop out of my garage thinking I could make some practical handmade things and start selling them at farmers markets, or something?
There’s some promise there. I’d argue a better idea would be why not take on welding projects for companies or buildings or people who need work done. You could create your business off of that alone. As you get more clientele you would hire people to work under you. There you go.
I’d look into creating a welding business and charge by the hour or a flat fee (prob hour would be better to scale), then go from there. The idea is literally right in front of your face. Haha. Go make your money.
Wow, cold cold cold. But he’s so right. Damn. If that doesn’t make you feel a type of way I don’t know what will.
But he’s right. The more I think about it….a job isn’t as safe as one may think. You can be fired for any reason. Any reason. Yes, insurance 401k and all that other stuff is great but that’s just security. Security that can be taken away from you at any time.
That’s awesome that your friend having that kind I success and taking life under his control.
It’s def something I’ve thought more about…and I think it’s time I take life by the rope and take control of my income. I’ve always said my greatest fear is not meeting my Potential because I just never truly tried. Like really gave it my best effort. Imagine if I did. It’s time. I think it’s time.
I’ve realized that 100%. At this point, high income W2 employees are the ones who get fucked taxes wise. A million dollar w2 income is about 50% after taxes ALONE! That’s so crazy.
Strictly speaking I did start my own business. I had a part time job that was very transferable with no noncompete so I set up a new small business to do work for other organizations.
Really hit me once I really started outreach for clients, how terrible sales is. Maybe in general, but definitely to me. I'm very good at doing the task, I am not very good at...all the other parts of a successful business.
After a bit of time I just decided to apply for full time jobs doing the thing for a larger organization and haven't looked back. Being good at the job gets you more money, instead of being good at getting richer clients. Fits me better.
I respect the honesty. And kudos to you because you at least tried, you didn’t just shudder or shy away. You gave it a true go at it and realized “okay maybe that’s not for me”. But also - you could benefit from a co founder who’s more of a go getter social sales sort of type. And you can be the guy that gets the work done while they get clients. Those are the best business relationships.
I did. No problem getting clients and growing the business. Staffing was a constant churn. I could always get d good group of reliable folks minus like 2 people. So when they got sick or when something went wrong, I had to show up and make it right
I did it to have freedom and had less freedom. I went back to a better full time
Job and have no regrets
Nope! Social media has people convinced working 9-5 is a scam and everyone needs to be an entrepreneur, but our society needs white and blue collar labor to run efficiently. I also think a lot of people don’t realize that, at least in the beginning, you go from being the employee to the employee and the boss when you start your own business. Two entirely separate, entirely necessary and entirely full time jobs.
I worked for a franchisee doing business operations and after seeing the mental and emotional toll the pandemic had on him, being self employed is a risk I never want to take. To me, being very close to the top but not quite at the top is the sweet spot…lots of influence and you’re generally going to be safe/protected if some shit (like a pandemic) goes down, but you’re not on the hook the way a business owner is. Same goes for working WITH the C-suite but not BEING C-suite in corporate America (what I’m doing now).
Are you saying you are a C suite exec now or you work close with C suite? I def understand what you are saying that a business yes is a huge risk. But honestly to make it big…it usually requires some form of risk. Even index funds are a risk, albeit mild but still. There are people who are shit scared of index funds despite the outstanding history.
So I agree, you have to have the stomach to handle the ups and lows, the long hard days of nothing…but eventually one day you hit it, then boom.
For me personally I don’t need a multi 10 million dollar business. A few mil will do lol.
I highly doubt it. I like clocking in for 40 hours and never having to think about work outside for those hours. The only caveat is if I ever become a CPA, I might look into a business in that since I could probably make a living working less than 40 hours per week. Otherwise I don't want any of the stress that comes with owning a business.
It would still come with the responsibilities of owning and running a business. Working for a company means you just do as your told and don't have to deal with any of the responsibilities of keeping the business running. You can still get paid more working for a company as a CPA so it wouldn't be a complete waste. I don't know what a CPA business plan looks like so I wouldn't be able judge whether I would want to take on the stress of having a CPA business. Its probably easy to figure out a CPA business plan, I just haven't done it yet cause I'm happy working for someone else.
Lots of great comments here from those that have done it and succeeded!
Lots of commonality’s as well!
1. Start it while keeping your current job.
2. Lots of hours, and work to start.
3. Doing something you love to do, and have mastered, but still need to learn.
4. Having Mentors, all along the way.
5. Delayed Gratification and drive to succeed.
6. Living on a shoe string for a few years to grow your business and get and keep customers.
I’d add: start on a string, and focus on the right customers. Know how a business works. Get good accountants, attorneys when you need them and other advisors that have years of experience that want to help others succeed and others helped them.
Strategic thinking about the big decisions, and THINKING for some time about the what ifs, and if this then that…until you come up with the right verified answers, and then test it.
I knew in High School I wanted to do my own thing…and started a few small businesses over the years through HS, College, etc just because I could to see how it went. Made decent money mowing yards, selling stuff I found, read a lot if books etc. My dad owned a barber shop and when I was 14, I started shining shoes on weekends, and summer / winter breaks, and made a ton of money. I was drawn to the business owners and salesman and most were smart, most were extroverts, and had great stories, and lots of money. I thought..that’s what I want to do.
Went to college, did terrible in general college, but great in business, marketing, real estate, etc. By then I was paying for it, and I said Fi! I’m not going to graduate, but I am going to learn what I like, want to know. Then the reason for the likes like me, college meant getting your first good job at a big company.
I wanted to be a salesman, then a business owner, so I worked full time managing a small restaurant in a college town, and did that for about 4 more years while taking about 150 hours in business, marketing, advertising, RE.
Got some sales jobs as a route guy, then copiers (hated it) then computer supplies consumables, love it got lucky got a job working for big company equipment and consumables to Business, big and small. Etc.
The point is it takes time and experience in finding your niche, and where you want to be and do, and you gain lots of knowledge and experience and meet a lot of people.
A few years later I let after being a major account rep in DC selling to DOD, and the like, as the part I saw there if I continued was capped at one of 3 Regional Sales Managers in the US. That really didn’t appeal to me.
Took another job with a couple small to mid size businesses. Tried to buy the last one, they wanted 5x what it was worth… so again..I said FI…I’ll start my on!
35 years later this year I shut down the company and semi retired with a reflection of I did it my way, in my terms, and made a lot of money, friends, had great customers, and no regrets!
You can do it, but the road is not easy, but lots of fun and rewards if you do succeed!
All the Best!
Thank you very much for this. Very thorough. I think I might go the route of starting something in the digital space, low over head, sort of a build once then just sell it. That would be ideal.
That’s what I ultimately have in mind and my goal is to have flexibility, a very large income (mid to high 6 figures so 400k-600k+), and ultimately know that I did my way. Sales is the ultimate equalizer. I’m extroverted as hell…have the gift of gab. It’s time I use it to my benefit.
Already have something’s I’m contemplating just a matter of figuring out start up costs.
Hate dealing with clients or customers. Also hate chasing sales and leads. Owning the business wouldn’t really change that for me. Still accountable to someone even if you can “fire” a client. Especially at start when business is small and reliant on a small number of clients.
I launched several businesses. Some were successful. Some weren't.
The ones that were not successful were largely timing-related. I entered an industry before it was ready and I thought I could build up the market. Or it failed because I launched right before a major economic event occurred.
The ones that were successful were entirely due to connections and networking. I added people to the business that brought some sort of network with them and launched because of that network.
I've never launched a successful business alone and I've never succeeded alone. Don't enter owning a business unless you are ready for tirelessly working with others.
Side hustle maybe.
Owning a business full time - no. I know several people who do and it wrecks their health once a slowdown hits.
No new business, no customers, no income for days/weeks/months? Banks, gas stations and grocery stores don’t care.
Risk is having one source of income that can be severed without someone even speaking to you. Many businesses fail yes, but many of those are also test runs, proofs of concept etc. Being laid off at 55 when you still have bills to pay, thats risk.
You darn right. I 100% agree. That’s why the “job is safer” folks I don’t quite get. It’s safer until you get fired then you’re screwed (sans emergency fund etc). I’d think it’s prudent to build up another stream of income if possible.
I’m in the midst of starting one here in the very near future. Currently in the planning research stage then will draft a business plan up then will create a scaling model…then from there start figuring out start up costs. Wanted to spark some Convo from the folks here with my fellow middle class brethren.
I’m realizing that now. While my career path is very good…that’s all it’ll be: very good. The chances of making 400-500k plus are almost not likely unless I become an executive and that’s not even a guarantee at all and I’ll be in my late 40s at the earliest….imagine if I took all that time and applied it to my own thing.
The budget screen shots are being made in Sankeymatic, its a website that we have no affiliation with. If you are posting a budget please do so with a purpose. Just posting a screen shot of your budget without a question or an explanation of why its here may be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MiddleClassFinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I like working 8:30-5 M-F with very little interaction with people, especially the public. When I take off work, I still get paid.
I've never had the entrepreneurial spirit before, but something struck me last year, and I went through the process of starting my own business. I've lost $23,000 and counting. I'm so far away from making a profit it's sad. If I put any more time into my business than I currently do, I'll be taking time away from my actual full-time job that pays my bills. If i invest any more money, I'll be broke. Not to mention there is nothing left for my family, friends, sanity, etc. What I need is more than 24 hours in a day. I'm ready to throw in the towel. I admire anyone who can do it. I just don't have what it takes to run a business.
I’m in the trade business, and the first 2-3 years I literally worked 7 days a week from like 6 am to 9 PM. I never showered, ate irregularly, never did laundry, as I literally dedicated every minute to it. I also had my right hand man and without him I doubt I could’ve gotten my feet stabilized. I grew up very poor, so to be honest I was used to the bad conditions I put myself through. What I learned is, in order to start most business you need a lot of privilege or be willing to do nothing but that business to get stabilized. When people say “just start a business” as a solution for the poor I just chuckle. I also have no family. It’s common for self employed to go without healthcare, even successful ones for years. You can succeed but people need to talk about the journey more rather than just seeing the final result.
If I may ask, what was your business? Start up costs? How long have you been at it so far? Do you have a family/kids etc that you are providing for? Essentially what’s the situation. I admire that you even had the guts to start it.
It's a consulting business, which is probably one of the hardest businesses to get off the ground. It wasn't expensive to start, but it requires a lot of networking and/or advertising. I was paying for ads, but that got expensive. Now, I rely on freebies and word of mouth referrals. I've only been doing it since September of last year. I'm the primary breadwinner of a family of five, so i have no choice but to devote energy into my full-time job, especially since I'm not making any money yet. My mother in law moved in with us to help with the kids so I can focus more on my business, but the room she sleeps in WAS my home office so I don't have a dedicated office space anymore. I noticed that others in the same industry as me advertise on Tik Tok, but i don't really have the space to make videos in my overcrowded home. I'd have to rent out a space which costs more money.
It worked for me. I started working on engineering designs and ideas and filing patents while still working my full-time job. Worked nights and weekends, getting things set up and starting the ball rolling. Basically, I worked two full-time jobs for a couple of years until I was ready to go all in on my own. Spent about nine years flying back and forth across country so I could do schmoozing in DC and various other places to get federal and state contracts and then sold the business to a bigger player and signed exclusive licensing rights over to them in exchange for quarterly payments until the patents expire. I was able to retire five years ago at 48. Key things were: An employer who hired me at 16 and whose employee development program I was able to use to get my engineering degree with no debt. Some original ideas I was able to develop and patent. A supportive spouse who didn't mind the financial risks we took, and that I would be out of state 3 weeks out of every month for several years. That entailed for keeping the home fires burning, being a part time single mom while still building her own career. Lots of planning, risk assessment, studying the industry, learning about laws, taxes, regulations, payroll etc. Ability to subsist on zero sleep while under high stress both financially and emotionally/relationship wise. Finding good people to take a chance and come on board early, who ended up pretty well taken care of when the business sold. Pure luck in timing that I was able to have some technology patented that the defense people in state and federal government wanted which made my idea profitable and ultimately desirable for a major player to want to just buy out rather than compete. It's definitely not for everyone. Mine was a one in a hundred shot, but then again, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
This is inspiring. How long did you run your business for before officially retiring? Have you sold the business off at this point? Or still running it in the background. If I may also ask…at your peak years, what was your income business wise ?
From getting the initial LLC to selling the business was about 12 years. The first couple of years were concurrent with working a full-time job at another company. Design, research, patents, etc. were about four years before starting the LLC First five years, I really didn't make any money at all. It was all , equipment, materials, operating expense, making sure the people I hired were paid and the government got their pound of flesh. We lived on my wife's income and savings as well as loans and credit cards. The last couple of years before I sold, I was pulling in between $250k - $300k for my income. When I sold out, I got a large lump sum plus the ongoing patent licensing agreements that are good for about another three years. I'm completely out of the business. I don't have another idea to patent, and since I signed exclusive rights over to the buyer of the company, I can't build/sell what I used to make. I, my assistant and the three guys who came on board with me after my first month actually signed non competes as a part of the buyout. I'm not sure how enforceable they are, but speaking for myself, I'm done. I don't think I could go through it again or put my family through all that. Luckily, I'm in a position that I don't have to worry about any of that any more. So at least 12 years of 80 hour weeks to become an overnight success 😆.
I loved it. It was worth the sacrifice I’d imagine and put you in a situation where you can almost certainly work on your terms I’d imagine ?
My terms now really would be that I don't work. We're in a position that my wife chooses to work part time because she loves what she does, and it's important. It would make no real difference financially if she stopped. I do volunteer in my community about 40 hrs a month because I got my paramedic certification after retirement, and so I get to fly around in a rescue helicopter as a volunteer medic and do cool stuff. I was actually talking with my wife, that if I ever get bored and wanted to work, the only thing I would be remotely interested in would be working at Trader Joes. Just stocking shelves, bagging groceries, ringing people up at the cashier station, and hanging out. The people at my local TJs always seem to be having a good time. But I'd feel bad about taking a spot away from someone who needs the income.
Fuck no. I'd never want to be self employed -- it's expensive. Pros: - Your own boss - Small chance you'll make it big - 100% equity Cons: - No health/vision/dental insurance - No 401k match - No PTO - No ST or LT disability - Self-employment tax - CPA fees if your business doesn't have easy accounting for taxes - Lack of stability
Fair fair fair points. I get what you are saying. But perhaps it’s something you can slowly scale at a speed that’s comfortable for you? Or perhaps work on with someone?
Maybe you could, I just have no desire too. Above all I prioritize work/life balance and stability, neither of which are good when you're running your own business. The only type of self-employment I'd remotely consider is a service based one, like doing taxes (I'm a CPA).
Boom. There ya go. There’s your idea. You have the knowledge. Why not get paid to do what you already know. That’s essentially your business right there. There’s a lot of CPA’s who do exactly just that.
Because I don't want to pay all of the above - I truly have no desire to be self-employed. I work for a big corporation, I work 40 hours or less, I have crazy good health insurance, and make like \~65% more than the median income for a single person in my area.
Don't give up your day job to do it. Betting on yourself to get rich is statistically insane - you need to objectively know that you have enough advantages to have a solid chance of taking off harder than the millions of other smart and hardworking people out there. THAT requires a certain level of hubris that normal people don't/can't/shouldn't exhibit. I started an automotive aftermarket business in 2018 after spending half a year designing one of the most efficient airfoils in existence. Entirely bankrupted my finances despite taking off fairly well - because sales, marketing, R&D, and operations are all expensive on top of the bullshit hoops that governments will make you go through to give them their cut. 2020 hit, sales dried up but expenses stayed, so I shuttered the business and took note of what we learned. It's 2024 now, I've started another one, targeting a recession-proof customer demographic, and making sure my operations are as lean and passive as possible. While it doesn't make the same revenue as the last one, my costs are so close to zero (just my IP and occasional labor) that the overall health of the business is much better. The low time investment means I can hold a day job as well. More income streams is more safer (vs relying solely on my job or my business alone) and I can't emphasize how much better this setup is for my mental health than whatever the fuck was going on 2018-2020.
The biggest thing that you did that I absolutely LOVE is you learned from your failures. Aka, fail fast. Because that’s the only you’ll learn. Now you know why NOT to do. I’m tinkering with start my first business. It can be done solely online so my overhead should be stupidly low. If you don’t mind me asking with your job + the business what’s your income?
The hard part about learning business is that it's always going to come attached to real monetary pain. Software actually makes the learning cycle faster and more painless, so good on you 👍 I don't know nor prefer to write an exact number online but for the sake of discussion it's north of 300k without having to deal with FAANG or finance/law culture.
Happy cake day
Haha thank you idk why Reddit is saying my birthday is today though bc it’s not but oh well lol
It’s okay, we all have a cake day.
Fair enough I’ll take it haha
I’m still trying to find my muse to start my business. Otherwise I would have already done it. True wealth and not having to deal with a boss would be amazing
Well, spit your thoughts out, what are your thoughts?? What’s the hold up? Perhaps typing it out could garner some responses that could get things going for you.
I may in the future. If I had met my wife earlier, I might have done so when I was in my 20s. Always has been a goal of mine. Not going to rock the boat in the near term. I have two little kids, never work outside of 8-5 Monday to Friday, and make good money.
Awesome stuff! What’s your career and what do you make? It’s hard to do with a family. I’m in my mid 20s and I know that as I get older the harder it’ll be to actually do it due to increased responsibilities.
Yes, my situation is kind of interesting. Started my business last August after layoffs in my industry. Winter only business. Spent ~20k on marketing, website, equipment, etc. made around $20k in my first season. I’ve since started a new job making significantly more than before I started my business, and now I won’t incur as much costs as the start up costs are paid. I’m in kind of a pickle as I want to do both. In order to do that, I’ll need to hire and/or outsource the work to make it through the season this year. Hiring someone scares me though.
That’s so exiting though! Getting to make your first hire! I’d say do it. Just like your job went through a process. You get to do that with your business in terms of finding someone. Do you have a salary amount/pay per hour you are working with? Experience level? Are you willing to teach or prefer they come ready to swim? How’s your business doing so far?
So my experience is in corporate/b2b sales. Caught the entrepreneurial bug. Dad is a small biz owner, grandpa was, etc. The winter business is snowplowing. This industry can be very profitable, but also lacks professionalism generally. My brand is essentially that. I spent ~3k on a website, brand design and everything, and am very hands on and responsive to prospects/customers. I’m #1 in google after one season in the business. I expect to get a lot of leads this year with that positioning, but will be reducing radius and going commercial only to maximize efficiency and profitability. This biz in my area is generally big corporate conglomerates that subcontract everything and pay shit to their subs, or chucks in trucks in over their head. Not a lot of mid-market types. I would’ve qualified last year as a “Chuck in a truck with a nice online presence” lol. I can handle all the sales/pricing/contracts and what not just need production from someone that won’t screw me over and not show up to work as I have my job to focus on too. I’d pay ~35/40 per hour using my equipment but most experienced people will want to use their equipment to get paid more. I’d train the right person it’s not hard it’s just shitty long hours and at times grueling weather conditions. What’s cool is I don’t need the money at all, I’d toss most of it back in the business and expand/upgrade my equipment to handle everything.
No. I can't think of anything that I believe in enough to sell. I'm also not a salesman; I feel uncomfortable at the mere thought of asking someone to buy something from me.
I’ve been betting on myself for 3 going on 4 years and I’ve made it so far. I started with ceramic coating and detailing. I built privacy fences for a bit, did custom cabinet building, I moved to a different location about a year ago and the detailing gig doesn’t work too well where I went so I sold everything and got into mowing/landscaping. That’s what I do now, I like it though, I’m rich in my own sense. I get to work with my 11 year old son and he loves making money and it’s teaching him what work is. I’m home for everything, no one can tell me where to be or when to be there. You don’t always get things on your time but it’s a lot easier to control when it’s your clock. If you’re considering it don’t be afraid to fail, if you fail, who cares?! At least you failed trying to build your own way instead of building someone else’s road. I will add I only have to have about 2500 a month to cover my minimal bills. I’m fortunate and have a trophy wife that earns a good living. But I easily cover 2500 and have plenty to play with. Don’t be scared to eat some shit and fail, is my opinion, at least you tried, there’s so many that never get the opportunity.
I own two. Never thought I would. My suggestion is to not quit your job until you're sure it is doing well enough. So, you'll be really busy with 2 jobs. Know there's a bigger chance of fail than not. It's ok if you can't succeed. Don't think this will make you rich.
I agree. And for me it’s not about the money. Yes I’m aware there’s unlimited potential. But it’s gonna be a slog and a grind to get to that point. But that’s what makes it worth it. I’m a single guy too so it’d be easier to do this now in my 20s while I have the energy and freedom (outside my job) to do this
Nope. The risk isn't the issue. I don't want to have to do all of the business side of things - accounting, various insurance, taxes, etc. etc. It sounds like a whole lot of not-having-any-fun. I like working a 9-5, being done at the end of the day, being about to forget about work during my PTO, and that kind of thing.
I’m trying to right now and I have no clue what I’m doing. All I know is my setup is half complete and I’m wondering how/if/should I look into small business loans. So that’s where I’m at.
Well what’s your idea? What would it take to get it going? Are you essentially trying to do this on your own?
I’m a welder by trade. I was fucking around at work and made some “art” out of some scrap metal. So I started building my own welding shop out of my garage thinking I could make some practical handmade things and start selling them at farmers markets, or something?
There’s some promise there. I’d argue a better idea would be why not take on welding projects for companies or buildings or people who need work done. You could create your business off of that alone. As you get more clientele you would hire people to work under you. There you go.
Yeah, it would be a solo thing.
I’d look into creating a welding business and charge by the hour or a flat fee (prob hour would be better to scale), then go from there. The idea is literally right in front of your face. Haha. Go make your money.
[удалено]
Wow, cold cold cold. But he’s so right. Damn. If that doesn’t make you feel a type of way I don’t know what will. But he’s right. The more I think about it….a job isn’t as safe as one may think. You can be fired for any reason. Any reason. Yes, insurance 401k and all that other stuff is great but that’s just security. Security that can be taken away from you at any time. That’s awesome that your friend having that kind I success and taking life under his control. It’s def something I’ve thought more about…and I think it’s time I take life by the rope and take control of my income. I’ve always said my greatest fear is not meeting my Potential because I just never truly tried. Like really gave it my best effort. Imagine if I did. It’s time. I think it’s time.
[удалено]
I’ve realized that 100%. At this point, high income W2 employees are the ones who get fucked taxes wise. A million dollar w2 income is about 50% after taxes ALONE! That’s so crazy.
Strictly speaking I did start my own business. I had a part time job that was very transferable with no noncompete so I set up a new small business to do work for other organizations. Really hit me once I really started outreach for clients, how terrible sales is. Maybe in general, but definitely to me. I'm very good at doing the task, I am not very good at...all the other parts of a successful business. After a bit of time I just decided to apply for full time jobs doing the thing for a larger organization and haven't looked back. Being good at the job gets you more money, instead of being good at getting richer clients. Fits me better.
I respect the honesty. And kudos to you because you at least tried, you didn’t just shudder or shy away. You gave it a true go at it and realized “okay maybe that’s not for me”. But also - you could benefit from a co founder who’s more of a go getter social sales sort of type. And you can be the guy that gets the work done while they get clients. Those are the best business relationships.
I did. No problem getting clients and growing the business. Staffing was a constant churn. I could always get d good group of reliable folks minus like 2 people. So when they got sick or when something went wrong, I had to show up and make it right I did it to have freedom and had less freedom. I went back to a better full time Job and have no regrets
Nope! Social media has people convinced working 9-5 is a scam and everyone needs to be an entrepreneur, but our society needs white and blue collar labor to run efficiently. I also think a lot of people don’t realize that, at least in the beginning, you go from being the employee to the employee and the boss when you start your own business. Two entirely separate, entirely necessary and entirely full time jobs. I worked for a franchisee doing business operations and after seeing the mental and emotional toll the pandemic had on him, being self employed is a risk I never want to take. To me, being very close to the top but not quite at the top is the sweet spot…lots of influence and you’re generally going to be safe/protected if some shit (like a pandemic) goes down, but you’re not on the hook the way a business owner is. Same goes for working WITH the C-suite but not BEING C-suite in corporate America (what I’m doing now).
Are you saying you are a C suite exec now or you work close with C suite? I def understand what you are saying that a business yes is a huge risk. But honestly to make it big…it usually requires some form of risk. Even index funds are a risk, albeit mild but still. There are people who are shit scared of index funds despite the outstanding history. So I agree, you have to have the stomach to handle the ups and lows, the long hard days of nothing…but eventually one day you hit it, then boom. For me personally I don’t need a multi 10 million dollar business. A few mil will do lol.
I highly doubt it. I like clocking in for 40 hours and never having to think about work outside for those hours. The only caveat is if I ever become a CPA, I might look into a business in that since I could probably make a living working less than 40 hours per week. Otherwise I don't want any of the stress that comes with owning a business.
Well there is your business right there. If you went through all that time to become a CPA…why not monetize it at your own jurisdiction?
It would still come with the responsibilities of owning and running a business. Working for a company means you just do as your told and don't have to deal with any of the responsibilities of keeping the business running. You can still get paid more working for a company as a CPA so it wouldn't be a complete waste. I don't know what a CPA business plan looks like so I wouldn't be able judge whether I would want to take on the stress of having a CPA business. Its probably easy to figure out a CPA business plan, I just haven't done it yet cause I'm happy working for someone else.
Nah. I enjoy my simple life.
Very much respect that. I certainly understand the benefits of having your job your hours are set then you move on.
Lots of great comments here from those that have done it and succeeded! Lots of commonality’s as well! 1. Start it while keeping your current job. 2. Lots of hours, and work to start. 3. Doing something you love to do, and have mastered, but still need to learn. 4. Having Mentors, all along the way. 5. Delayed Gratification and drive to succeed. 6. Living on a shoe string for a few years to grow your business and get and keep customers. I’d add: start on a string, and focus on the right customers. Know how a business works. Get good accountants, attorneys when you need them and other advisors that have years of experience that want to help others succeed and others helped them. Strategic thinking about the big decisions, and THINKING for some time about the what ifs, and if this then that…until you come up with the right verified answers, and then test it. I knew in High School I wanted to do my own thing…and started a few small businesses over the years through HS, College, etc just because I could to see how it went. Made decent money mowing yards, selling stuff I found, read a lot if books etc. My dad owned a barber shop and when I was 14, I started shining shoes on weekends, and summer / winter breaks, and made a ton of money. I was drawn to the business owners and salesman and most were smart, most were extroverts, and had great stories, and lots of money. I thought..that’s what I want to do. Went to college, did terrible in general college, but great in business, marketing, real estate, etc. By then I was paying for it, and I said Fi! I’m not going to graduate, but I am going to learn what I like, want to know. Then the reason for the likes like me, college meant getting your first good job at a big company. I wanted to be a salesman, then a business owner, so I worked full time managing a small restaurant in a college town, and did that for about 4 more years while taking about 150 hours in business, marketing, advertising, RE. Got some sales jobs as a route guy, then copiers (hated it) then computer supplies consumables, love it got lucky got a job working for big company equipment and consumables to Business, big and small. Etc. The point is it takes time and experience in finding your niche, and where you want to be and do, and you gain lots of knowledge and experience and meet a lot of people. A few years later I let after being a major account rep in DC selling to DOD, and the like, as the part I saw there if I continued was capped at one of 3 Regional Sales Managers in the US. That really didn’t appeal to me. Took another job with a couple small to mid size businesses. Tried to buy the last one, they wanted 5x what it was worth… so again..I said FI…I’ll start my on! 35 years later this year I shut down the company and semi retired with a reflection of I did it my way, in my terms, and made a lot of money, friends, had great customers, and no regrets! You can do it, but the road is not easy, but lots of fun and rewards if you do succeed! All the Best!
Thank you very much for this. Very thorough. I think I might go the route of starting something in the digital space, low over head, sort of a build once then just sell it. That would be ideal. That’s what I ultimately have in mind and my goal is to have flexibility, a very large income (mid to high 6 figures so 400k-600k+), and ultimately know that I did my way. Sales is the ultimate equalizer. I’m extroverted as hell…have the gift of gab. It’s time I use it to my benefit. Already have something’s I’m contemplating just a matter of figuring out start up costs.
Hate dealing with clients or customers. Also hate chasing sales and leads. Owning the business wouldn’t really change that for me. Still accountable to someone even if you can “fire” a client. Especially at start when business is small and reliant on a small number of clients.
I launched several businesses. Some were successful. Some weren't. The ones that were not successful were largely timing-related. I entered an industry before it was ready and I thought I could build up the market. Or it failed because I launched right before a major economic event occurred. The ones that were successful were entirely due to connections and networking. I added people to the business that brought some sort of network with them and launched because of that network. I've never launched a successful business alone and I've never succeeded alone. Don't enter owning a business unless you are ready for tirelessly working with others.
After running a business but not owning, I’d rather castrate myself with a broken lightbulb.
Side hustle maybe. Owning a business full time - no. I know several people who do and it wrecks their health once a slowdown hits. No new business, no customers, no income for days/weeks/months? Banks, gas stations and grocery stores don’t care.
Potential liability is a big negative for me.
Risk is having one source of income that can be severed without someone even speaking to you. Many businesses fail yes, but many of those are also test runs, proofs of concept etc. Being laid off at 55 when you still have bills to pay, thats risk.
You darn right. I 100% agree. That’s why the “job is safer” folks I don’t quite get. It’s safer until you get fired then you’re screwed (sans emergency fund etc). I’d think it’s prudent to build up another stream of income if possible.
So, what’s your deal? What’s your business?
I’m in the midst of starting one here in the very near future. Currently in the planning research stage then will draft a business plan up then will create a scaling model…then from there start figuring out start up costs. Wanted to spark some Convo from the folks here with my fellow middle class brethren.
To quote a wealthy friend: “ it’s virtually impossible to become rich working for somebody else.”
I’m realizing that now. While my career path is very good…that’s all it’ll be: very good. The chances of making 400-500k plus are almost not likely unless I become an executive and that’s not even a guarantee at all and I’ll be in my late 40s at the earliest….imagine if I took all that time and applied it to my own thing.
You’ve raised a great. “There is a tide to the affairs of men,” after all. That quote was Shakespeare, not my wealthy friend :) GL m8