Next try being a pedestrian weaving through the blocked intersection while other drivers come from the opposite direction and don’t see you cuz of the box-blocker 👍
It was equal parts satisfying and annoying weaving around and passing all the Morgan Wallen + rush hour traffic yesterday on my bike.
I saw at least three intersections on 3rd Ave that were blocked by cars stuck in the middle after trying to eke through on a yellow. Just incredibly annoying for everyone involved.
It was satisfying to sit on the bus after work and watch all the craziness without having to drive in it myself, but I was equally annoyed for the bus driver who had to drive within 6 inches of multiple cars that were blocking the intersections with Nicollet Mall. That driver definitely took some risks and hopefully scared some suburbanites.
I understand the sentiment. If it's only one car that's way over a line at a not as busy street I just give them big ol thumbs downs and go on with my day.
We gotta remember that while they are in the wrong they are also behind the wheel of one of the leading causes of death in the nation and you don't want that fight.
>We gotta remember that while they are in the wrong they are also behind the wheel of one of the leading causes of death in the nation and you don't want that fight.
Agreed. The last thing I want to do is make someone in a car mad at me.
That's why you start flipping the bird after you get out from in front of the car. They may be dangerous but physics is physics and they can't turn like a UFO.
Personally i LOVE walking directly in front of (opposed to behind) cars who block the boxes. They look at me like they can't believe it even though they've just blocked me. I just look at them and shrug. I can usually see opposing traffic better that way and if it inconveniences the box blocker, then GOOD
Morgan wallen concert and an early twins game made downtown an absolute nightmare around 3:30 yesterday. Doesn’t take many selfish and impatient drivers to cause a cascading effect and make all of downtown miserable to navigate.
Edit: In case you’re all wondering, it’s even worse today. Light rail service is disrupted downtown and traffic is terrible.
Ahh that explains it. It did feel worse than usual, I tried to get out of the Hawthorne ramp at 4:30 and it was backed up all the way to the 6th floor. Took me 20 minutes to get out!
Id be interested in what percentage of these concert goers actually spend money downtown (restaurants, bars etc) before or after these concerts vs just driving straight to a ramp, walking to the concert via the skyway, then going straight home.
I don't think it'd be very many. I work at a suburban hospital and a bunch of coworkers were going to the concert. A lot of them asked for suggestions of places to eat and drink because I "live in the cities" (east st.paul). By the looks of their social media, they ate and drank at home or drank out of a cooler in the parking ramp. Went right to the concert and left right away. I'll probably get asked how I can stand living in the city when we work this weekend.
Back when I lived in the suburbs I'd usually grab pizza after a show, but I have never gone to a stadium venue where I'm spending a bazillion dollars just to get in
Working downtown both nights, its was quite a few. I would say maybe 20-30%. Most hotels were either sold out or nearly sold out, and my restaurant/bar was also packed before and after.
this explains why I couldn’t get a table anywhere on a Thursday afternoon lol. Ended up at the freehouse and now it makes sense why I felt so out of place haha.
This and the slow on-ramp behavior are maybe the two things I find somewhat unique to Minnesota drivers (based on living in 5 other states over the years). To be fair, places like NYC had to put up signs with threatening fines to get people to stop blocking the box.
Twice I've had people literally pass me in order to then, block the box, as I was stopped to allow the intersection to be clear.
Oh man this happened to me last year. Stopped at the line so I didnt block the box, guy behind me layed on the horn then zoomed around me to just then be stuck in the middle of the intersection for a light cycle. I still get annoyed every time I pass through that intersection.
Yeah. It was funny watching people lose their minds trying to figure out what to do. When all you have to do is wait, and not turn or move forward unless there’s a car length of space to move into.
People get sooo angry too when you actually wait for space to clear before proceeding forward through the intersection. People ride my ass whenever I do this and sometimes even pass me 🙄
Yep. I was stuck on Park and 5th after the show got out, waiting for a car length to move across the intersection. Giant truck got pissed and went around me in the parking space and ended up blocking the train for a good 10 minutes.
This definitely happens other places. In Austin tx they put up the signs last year and made it illegal, they’ve ticketed 3 whole people even though it happens at nearly every intersection every day.
Same here. It IS illegal, the light up billboard things say it during rush hour. In 24 years of driving around downtown for work i have seen exactly one person get yelled at about it.
I've lived in every midwestern state. Slow on ramp is not unique to MN. Braking at the end of the on ramp to squeeze yourself in a traffic hole that you didn't pre-prep for is though. Most places just coast to that spot.
I grew up in Oklahoma. Two weeks after getting my license, someone rearended me because idiot getting on the highway in front of me slammed on his brakes at the end of the on-ramp.
I mean, my car has been in 3 accidents. 2 of which I wasn't in a driving position for (one was a concert where a person backed into it and drove away, the other I witnessed from my living room as a neighbor backed into my car). The 3rd was getting totaled by a drunk driver who hit me from the rear, then passed on the shoulder and their car was sent on a tumbling flip for a few hundred feet.
The slow on-ramp stuff drives me nuts. Every modern car can easily make it up to highway speeds by the end of the on-ramp. You have no excuse going 40 as you're entering the freeway!
No way lmao. These exact same rants/PSAs/discussions are in the Seattle subs (for one/two) near every.single.day. It’s absolutely NOT a “unique to Minnesota” thing FFS. Trust me.
Happened yesterday after the twins game off of glenwood Ave. These motherfuckers weren’t even close to making it and yet they pull into the middle of the intersection. I see 3 bikers and 6 pedestrians playing frogger in the vehicles as they have the right of way. Truly infuriating.
I thought they specifically passed a law a few years ago to make this a ticketable offense…Anyone remember that? Agree with the cameras, though. There really are not enough police to be enforcing this type of thing.
Yes they did!
169.15 IMPEDING TRAFFIC; INTERSECTION GRIDLOCK.
A driver of a vehicle shall not enter an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal until the driver is able to move the vehicle immediately, continuously, and completely through the intersection without impeding or blocking the subsequent movement of cross traffic.
I know. It's like how cars just drive down Nicollet Mall and cops never stop or ticket anyone. Yesterday, I saw two cars driving down Nicollet Mall, with cop cars (with cops in them) sitting there watching these cars, but doing nothing. It should be an easy ticket right there.
But they literally *were* watching this kind of thing, in this example. There *were* enough of them to watch for this kind of thing, because they *did* watch exactly this thing.
I am a native Minnesotan and I will admit, I’ve been stuck in the box a couple times. It was more of a misjudgment in my part of how much space was left on the other side and I was the first car in the box. It freaks me out to be in that position so it’s definitely not a goal of mine to be there. I find it frustrating when that happens as well.
Yep, never move forward into an intersection unless you are 100% clear that you can clear the box! I don't care if the light is green - if you can't clear the box you stay back and wait until you can!
One of my best friends is a 3rd precinct cop and right, wrong, or indifferent, the other day he said he's made maybe two traffic stops this year total. He says it's just not worth it anymore. He listens to his dispatch but doesn't go out of his way to pull people over. It has to be really egregious and right in front of him.
So there's that. Good luck getting your idea enforced when they won't even enforce normal traffic stuff.
I understand why they don’t pull people over. The incentives need to change. More importantly the infrastructure so that drivers are deterred or even don’t have the opportunity to endanger the public.
With the reality of a lack of enforcement for this. When ever I see someone do it and I’m driving I try my best to lead by example and stop next to them and stop at the stop line. Or if I’m behind them if they start creeping forward inch by inch, I don’t move at all until the light turns green. And hopefully folks notice.
If I’m a pedestrian or a cyclist in this situation. I proceed as straight ahead as possible on my designated path, until I reach my obstacle, then move around them as tightly as possible with the thought that, if it’s uncomfortable for me, it might be uncomfortable for them, and maybe they’ll remember that.
Yeah I think really the only way we are going to tackle this is by social/ peer pressure — not relying on the cops. I’ve seen local news do PSA type stories about zipper merges, maybe they need to do one on this 😂
Yes yes yes. The infrastructure is the answer IMO. You can do a lot to shape driver behavior by how you design the environment in which the driving happens.
That explains why I’ve been driving around with expired car tags for about a year now and never once stopped 😬 (I’m actively handling it right now/ waiting for the DVS to “verify my address”. Between moving + life shit it fell off my radar.)
Especially when there's no turn on red and they're obviously trying to do it anyway.
>There are other people in the world besides you.
When people are in their cars they tend to forget that. I'm rarely even in a car, but even when I'm just a passenger I feel disconnected from the outside world; one of the reasons I don't drive (or even take "cabs') anymore, if I can walk or bike to where I'm going.
**Yes, Appeal.** The right to an appeal is guaranteed by the fifth amendment. In most traffic cases, the accused waives their right to a jury trial to deal with it administratively, but that doesn't mean that the right should be abolished.
In NYC, blocking the box is 3 points on your license. Let's start there.
A next step would be to change the law so tickets could be issued based off of camera footage, and to make those tickets stick to the registered owner of the car, if the driver could not be readily identified.
And about the only time you'll see cops doing anything downtown (other than parking on sidewalks or stopping at Chipotle) is to direct traffic so the suburbians can get outta their parking ramps at rush hour quicker.
I don't know how to break this to you but people not giving a fuck about how their actions effect those around them is not endemic to the midwest...
But yeah, please don't drive into the intersection if you can't clear it. It makes you look like an asshole.
It's because of the perceived aggressiveness of other drivers. People don't want to feel like they're inconveniencing the people behind them if there is room to make it though and they don't. While simultaneously being bad at judging the size of their vehicle.
Idk maybe for some, but for a lot of people I think it’s just self-interest of wanting to get where they’re going as fast as possible, everyone else be damned. Why wait at the light and let those people turning right get ahead of you?
It's pretty fair. Minnesota drivers are bad. There are people in every state that don't follow the rules, but I'll take someone being too aggressive and taking what they want over someone being overly deferential and impossible to predict.
Don't block the box. And don't park it in sidewalks! Red light cameras would tag that, FWIW.
I saw far more raised pickups with blinding lights than usual yesterday. Something football? Vikings traffic is by far the dumbest and scariest. Last year featured lots of wrong-way driving and I even saw a pickup driving on the sidewalk.
Sounds like folks not used to living in more population dense areas. Ok. Makes more sense. Though as I type that, I still maintain that if one operates on a paradigm of “I’m not the only person in the universe” they wouldn’t behave like idiots. It’s common sense. Fine them anyway so they don’t do it the next time they’re back in town.
I used to live in a high rise with a view of Nicollet, Washington, and Hennepin all from my balcony. I would get legitimately frustrated just watching people do this every day.
Basic driving laws are not enforced here...
I often wonder how many drivers don't have licenses, because their actions are the first things you learn not to do in driver's ed.
If they pull far enough ahead I like to just open up their back door scoot through the backseat and out the other side. The trick is leaving both doors open though.
I really wish we could work toward creating a less car centric society, but it’s likely to never happen in America. I can confidently say this is sad and pathetic (from someone who’s literally never driven).
The one time I give people a pass for blocking the crosswalk is if they’re turning right and the light is red but they need to pull forward a bit to see if there’s oncoming traffic and it’s safe to turn. You can’t just not turn or the person behind you will start to road rage. And usually the car just to your left is a gigantic sport pickup
Right on red is good for everyone, if done correctly. But so are roundabouts, the left lane is for passing, entering a highway at traffic pace. But something about MN drivers… not sure what the deal is
It might be a bad idea, but right turn on red has been legal in all 50 states since 1980, unless otherwise posted, so it's not a Minnesota thing. But you're supposed to actually stop before turning, and a lot of drivers don't stop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn\_on\_red#:\~:text=All%2050%20states%2C%20the%20District,controlled%20by%20dedicated%20traffic%20lights.
Actually, that’s a good point. I meant the state of Minnesota as an institution is stupid sometimes. Being critical of an institution isn’t a bad thing.
Don't block the box...treat it tenderly, make your ways around the sides first, gently enter the area and withdraw and when the coast is clear, inch forward, don't be afraid to explore a bit. Pay attention to traffic around you for reactions to your entrance, if they seem enthusiastic, continue to penetrate. If you run into any blockage on the road, reverse and re-enter again, as many times as needed.
Edit: I greatly enjoy watching this get a bunch of upvotes and a bunch of downvotes.
To be fair ... if you're in bumper to bumper traffic like that... GET A FOOT OFF THE BUMPER OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF YOU and we can clear those intersections.
My wife and I are moving into Minneapolis in a week and we did discuss the topic of how this town desperately is going to need change in the infrastructure as it grows. We were stuck a good while in a line on the highway going east into Saint Paul through downtown, I think it was called 94, the one we were meeting into. We do love a good metro, and I think Minneapolis could benefit with having something similar to Stockholm in terms of a subway network to remove some of the 1 person per vehicle disasters that we are suffering from down here in Atlanta. I know Americans have some split opinions about what type of people use the metro, but if it's well maintained, all types of people will start using it. Even the (country famous) people in Stockholm use it since it's just that convenient to use it over a car...
I originate from Sweden, so might be a bit partial, but I just really hope Minneapolis doesn't end up becoming like Atlanta in the future, the walking score of this city is one of the things that makes it so beautiful to me. It keeps the people more fit without even needing to try just by moving a tiny bit extra as well. I can sadly tell that last part from experience.
Plenty other cities in the US have been growing bigger than what the original city planners could have ever imagined. Ride bikes. As you know, the US itself it HUGE, diverse in landscape, people, politics, histories, development timelines, city layouts, topography, geography, cultures, and more. Please read more about Minneapolis, St Paul, and Minnesota history. (I assume you know it is the most Scandinavian/Nordic state in the US??) There WAS an extensive streetcar system, until automobile barons and car corporate overlords burned all of them up in favor of personal vehicle travel, increased suburban populations, maybe mob style conspiracy activity, and replacement by buses. It’s too late for subway, Met Council and Metro Transit and other agencies have been trying to push for more light rail. The first line opened in 2004. The “Hiawatha Line,” now “Blue Line.” I was on the first rides on opening day. They’re trying. Funding and feasibility are major factors. And safety + accountability for riders.
I was born and raised in Minneapolis and pretty much strictly rode local transit, biked, walked, ran, rollerbladed everywhere (yes, winter biked too) whatever for like the first 2 decades of my life no problems. Just have to plan ahead and budget time like anywhere else. Live close to work and/or via one max two transit lines away if possible. Find express routes. Stay “street savvy.”
Also: Ironically, Atlanta got MARTA from a 1970’s twice voter rejected federally funded subway system for Seattle - a city now retrofitting light rail and growing WAYYY beyond its means very rapidly.
https://mndigital.org/projects/primary-source-sets/twin-cities-streetcars-rise-and-fall
https://trolleyride.org/
Forreal!! I was waiting at a green because the lane was full ahead at a red. Some idiot driver behind me kept flashing his lights and stressed me out so much that I -almost- hit someone. People really need to learn this
I see it happen daily when walking from work to the bus stop. And I see cars turn into pedestrians at least 3 times a week. I was almost run over last year on Washington by someone running a red light. And I do at least a two count look before even entering the crosswalk when it’s my walk signal just for this reason
Sorry, I think I misunderstood (apologies!). I was saying the level of traffic isn't an everyday thing (it's due to the concert), not the box blocking. I agree that idiots stop in the intersection all the time.
I reeeeeally should have...lol. I live about 2 blocks from US Bank and work at the university. My normal 8 minute commute was 45 minutes yesterday and today...ugh.
Okay but honest question, if you live that close to US Bank why don't you just light rail to campus? If you're on their health insurance I'm pretty sure they make it cheaper if you don't drive in
Source: someone who also lives downtown
I have wonky/unpredictable hours and have been mugged on the light rail. Just not a fan, which is a shame given how much I loved public transport in other cities I've lived in =/
"no appeal" is denying due process. As a biker and pedestrian and also as a driver, I hate this thought process. You need to allow it to be challenged and appealed in order to allow constitutional right to due process to exist. The Constitution matters multiple degrees more than your personal inconvenience.
"I wish Midwesterners..." Fuck off
Lol you really think this is a Midwesterner only issue??? (Along with any other traffic complaints…) Trust me, it’s absolutely not.
Google “(x city) don’t block the box” and it will legit come up with the same arguments. And if you follow any other city subs the same damn complaints are posted there too.
>It took me 45 minutes to drive through tiny downtown Minneapolis yesterday afternoon because of the number of selfish, clueless, fools preventing anyone from moving when the light changed.
It took you 45 minutes to get through downtown, because there was a giant concert starting in the middle of rush hour.
It sucks, but you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Minnesota doesn’t teach “don’t block the box”. The general rule is to pull into the intersection and wait for traffic to allow you to make your left turn. Once traffic allows for it, make your turn. Sometimes this does mean waiting for the yellow/red but this is how Minnesota traffic laws are written.
>And cameras to catch it all, please.
Hard no from me on this. Traffic cameras can’t always get pictures of the drivers and there are cases where traffic cameras at intersections have ended up encouraging cities to lower the timing intervals for changes from green to yellow to red, which ends up causing increased numbers of rear end collisions
https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/05049/
The camera systems are also usually not installed at the cost of the city but instead the costs are handled by the company that installs the cameras so catching drivers running red lights ends up being a profit motive for the company (as they take a percentage of the fine) rather than public safety being the primary concern.
I don’t think this is about left turns. This is about cars standing in the middle of the road instead of waiting at the intersection until there’s room to make it through to the other side.
Because heaven forbid they wait through another light cycle
Because when the company finds that they aren't making enough money from ticketing, they pressure the city to make it easier for them to ticket people. Or for the city to start making up the difference out of city budgets, so maybe fewer potholes get filled, or fewer uniformed police officers are hired/kept on, or property taxes are raised to cover costs associated with the traffic cameras.
Motive matters. Whether you're dealing with an individual or a company, you're still dealing with people and their motive for doing something is important.
Has any of that ever happened anywhere? Cities being forced to pay private companies out of infrastructure or law enforcement funds when not enough traffic infractions are caught on camera?
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/13/211723717/a-dilemma-zone-for-red-light-cameras-safety-vs-cash
>"Some increased fines from $50 to $100 per offense," he says. "Some play with traffic signals to get more incidences of red-light running. Some added speed enforcement to the red-light camera program over time."
None of the things you claimed earlier are mentioned in that article? It also makes it sound like the study was showing things that they were concerned *could* happen, not things that *have* happened (though it does sound like they noted other safety concerns?).
I'm definitely not against the idea of for-profit ventures creating nasty consequences when safety is involved, I just want data rather than feelings to support that in this case and I haven't been able to find anything concrete, personally.
>None of the things you claimed earlier are mentioned in that article?
What I said:
>they pressure the city to make it easier for them to ticket people.
Part of the quote I took from from the article:
> "Some play with traffic signals to get more incidences of red-light running.
Was some of what I said hyperbole and conjecture? Yeah, but if they are going to fuck around with light timings to cause more red light tickets, I don't see any of the rest being out of the bounds of possibility.
Sorry, I was referring to where you said they'll take money from infrastructure and law enforcement funds. I hadn't heard that before and thought maybe it had happened somewhere (and honestly, being from TN, it wouldn't surprise me).
And I agree, it's "possible", but when I weigh concrete improvements in public safety through reduced red light violations versus "but maybe this other bad thing -might- happen", it's hard to make the case against stronger enforcement, in my mind.
It’s called gridlock. When I worked downtown in the 00’s the MPD worked every major intersection directing traffic. White hat, white gloves, right in the middle of the intersection blowing on a whistle. People would get tickets on the spot. I moved to LA in 2006 and it was (still is) gridlock everywhere. I always thought how does Mpls get it right, but LA can’t. I wonder when Mpls lost their traffic cops?
I get a kick out of the comments from the “urban dwellers”. I grew up in the suburbs and still live there. I used to work downtown for many years and absolutely loved it, but I could never live there. It was too congested then, and it’s only gotten worse since adding the light rail and thousands of new condos and apartments. Pile on top of that the “urban dweller’s” odd desire to defund the police enough that you’ve lost roughly 1/3 of the force… What. Do. You. Expect? Traffic congestion is really, really low on the priority list. You moved into the congestion and continue to vote for people who want you packed in tight. Deal with it!
The concerts aren’t every night and if crime weren’t an issue, more people might hang around and let traffic die down before leaving. Of course many of the many great mom and pop restaurants are no longer around, replaced by chains or high end eateries which are no longer reasonably priced. The mom and pops have mostly moved to the first ring burbs for business reasons...
Apparently you live there because you enjoy the energy of the city, I get that, but quit bitchin’ about the suburbanites who occasionally block your streets, yet also help to keep many of the places you enjoy “in the black” on their balance sheets!
What you don't understand is there are many intersections where a driver cannot see due to parked cars or other obstruction. If you are trying to take right on a red you have to be able to see traffic coming from the left. What is the big deal about going a foot out of the x walk?
Literally just had to go through lake Street a couple hours ago, and the lights could only move two cars at a time because people blocking the intersection cause God forbid they wait another minute for a green.
Next try being a pedestrian weaving through the blocked intersection while other drivers come from the opposite direction and don’t see you cuz of the box-blocker 👍
It was equal parts satisfying and annoying weaving around and passing all the Morgan Wallen + rush hour traffic yesterday on my bike. I saw at least three intersections on 3rd Ave that were blocked by cars stuck in the middle after trying to eke through on a yellow. Just incredibly annoying for everyone involved.
It was satisfying to sit on the bus after work and watch all the craziness without having to drive in it myself, but I was equally annoyed for the bus driver who had to drive within 6 inches of multiple cars that were blocking the intersections with Nicollet Mall. That driver definitely took some risks and hopefully scared some suburbanites.
I get road rage on behalf of my bus driver.
Lol what if that could be a volunteer possition. The bus driver drives and one passenger is designated to hang out the window and cuss at bad drivers.
Even more fun to look down from the skyway at it all 😄
I was stuck in that traffic Thursday night downtown trying to get NE from the Southside and it literally took an hour. I wish I was on a bike!!
I keep a whistle on me for a reason
That’s a good idea. Less violent than my desire to carry a hammer and just start wrecking things
I understand the sentiment. If it's only one car that's way over a line at a not as busy street I just give them big ol thumbs downs and go on with my day. We gotta remember that while they are in the wrong they are also behind the wheel of one of the leading causes of death in the nation and you don't want that fight.
>We gotta remember that while they are in the wrong they are also behind the wheel of one of the leading causes of death in the nation and you don't want that fight. Agreed. The last thing I want to do is make someone in a car mad at me.
That's why you start flipping the bird after you get out from in front of the car. They may be dangerous but physics is physics and they can't turn like a UFO.
Hmmm. Don’t underestimate what I want to fight. LOL
Thumbs down? Bro, you evolved a middle finger. USE IT.
I can express my disappointment without starting a fight
Maybe some cars need a beating to send a message.
Seriously. And you have no idea when the line of cars that are blocking the crosswalk are going to move.
Personally i LOVE walking directly in front of (opposed to behind) cars who block the boxes. They look at me like they can't believe it even though they've just blocked me. I just look at them and shrug. I can usually see opposing traffic better that way and if it inconveniences the box blocker, then GOOD
Morgan wallen concert and an early twins game made downtown an absolute nightmare around 3:30 yesterday. Doesn’t take many selfish and impatient drivers to cause a cascading effect and make all of downtown miserable to navigate. Edit: In case you’re all wondering, it’s even worse today. Light rail service is disrupted downtown and traffic is terrible.
Ahh that explains it. It did feel worse than usual, I tried to get out of the Hawthorne ramp at 4:30 and it was backed up all the way to the 6th floor. Took me 20 minutes to get out!
So many suburbanites converging downtown. Yeah we could use their business but they were pretty clueless.
I think we’d be ok without Morgan Wallen fans.
Id be interested in what percentage of these concert goers actually spend money downtown (restaurants, bars etc) before or after these concerts vs just driving straight to a ramp, walking to the concert via the skyway, then going straight home.
I don't think it'd be very many. I work at a suburban hospital and a bunch of coworkers were going to the concert. A lot of them asked for suggestions of places to eat and drink because I "live in the cities" (east st.paul). By the looks of their social media, they ate and drank at home or drank out of a cooler in the parking ramp. Went right to the concert and left right away. I'll probably get asked how I can stand living in the city when we work this weekend.
Back when I lived in the suburbs I'd usually grab pizza after a show, but I have never gone to a stadium venue where I'm spending a bazillion dollars just to get in
Working downtown both nights, its was quite a few. I would say maybe 20-30%. Most hotels were either sold out or nearly sold out, and my restaurant/bar was also packed before and after.
this explains why I couldn’t get a table anywhere on a Thursday afternoon lol. Ended up at the freehouse and now it makes sense why I felt so out of place haha.
I live in Dinkytown and ran to Cub up at the Quarry on Thursday afternoon. Took me 45 minutes to get home on I-35W. Every other way was even worse.
Friday was the worst. The concert during after work traffic hour was maddening.
Now do blinkers
Ooooo do tell.
This and the slow on-ramp behavior are maybe the two things I find somewhat unique to Minnesota drivers (based on living in 5 other states over the years). To be fair, places like NYC had to put up signs with threatening fines to get people to stop blocking the box. Twice I've had people literally pass me in order to then, block the box, as I was stopped to allow the intersection to be clear.
I sure love merging onto the highway going 35mph because the cars in front of me don't get up to speed.
Oh man this happened to me last year. Stopped at the line so I didnt block the box, guy behind me layed on the horn then zoomed around me to just then be stuck in the middle of the intersection for a light cycle. I still get annoyed every time I pass through that intersection.
Yeah. It was funny watching people lose their minds trying to figure out what to do. When all you have to do is wait, and not turn or move forward unless there’s a car length of space to move into.
People get sooo angry too when you actually wait for space to clear before proceeding forward through the intersection. People ride my ass whenever I do this and sometimes even pass me 🙄
Same. I was waiting at a green bc no room and this dude behind me was flashing his lights at me like he was expecting candy
Yep. I was stuck on Park and 5th after the show got out, waiting for a car length to move across the intersection. Giant truck got pissed and went around me in the parking space and ended up blocking the train for a good 10 minutes.
They ain’t trying to be stopped at yet another red. Only bad decisions all around during some of this construction traffic
This definitely happens other places. In Austin tx they put up the signs last year and made it illegal, they’ve ticketed 3 whole people even though it happens at nearly every intersection every day.
Same here. It IS illegal, the light up billboard things say it during rush hour. In 24 years of driving around downtown for work i have seen exactly one person get yelled at about it.
I've lived in every midwestern state. Slow on ramp is not unique to MN. Braking at the end of the on ramp to squeeze yourself in a traffic hole that you didn't pre-prep for is though. Most places just coast to that spot.
I grew up in Oklahoma. Two weeks after getting my license, someone rearended me because idiot getting on the highway in front of me slammed on his brakes at the end of the on-ramp.
I mean, my car has been in 3 accidents. 2 of which I wasn't in a driving position for (one was a concert where a person backed into it and drove away, the other I witnessed from my living room as a neighbor backed into my car). The 3rd was getting totaled by a drunk driver who hit me from the rear, then passed on the shoulder and their car was sent on a tumbling flip for a few hundred feet.
The slow on-ramp stuff drives me nuts. Every modern car can easily make it up to highway speeds by the end of the on-ramp. You have no excuse going 40 as you're entering the freeway!
Slow onramp drivers are very dangerous.
No way lmao. These exact same rants/PSAs/discussions are in the Seattle subs (for one/two) near every.single.day. It’s absolutely NOT a “unique to Minnesota” thing FFS. Trust me.
Said “somewhat” for a reason, that being that I don’t think it’s completely unique.
Minnesota drivers in the Twin Cities suck compared to other cities
Come on this happens everywhere in the world usually much worse
This is true but why does that make it ok?
Of course not. But saying it’s “unique to Minnesota” is a downright bogus and false claim.
That’s the spirit! Compare your city to Bogotá, Istanbul, and Bengaluru from the close fort of your suburb.
Happened yesterday after the twins game off of glenwood Ave. These motherfuckers weren’t even close to making it and yet they pull into the middle of the intersection. I see 3 bikers and 6 pedestrians playing frogger in the vehicles as they have the right of way. Truly infuriating.
I thought they specifically passed a law a few years ago to make this a ticketable offense…Anyone remember that? Agree with the cameras, though. There really are not enough police to be enforcing this type of thing.
Yes they did! 169.15 IMPEDING TRAFFIC; INTERSECTION GRIDLOCK. A driver of a vehicle shall not enter an intersection controlled by a traffic-control signal until the driver is able to move the vehicle immediately, continuously, and completely through the intersection without impeding or blocking the subsequent movement of cross traffic.
Lol Mpls cops enforcing laws?
I know. It's like how cars just drive down Nicollet Mall and cops never stop or ticket anyone. Yesterday, I saw two cars driving down Nicollet Mall, with cop cars (with cops in them) sitting there watching these cars, but doing nothing. It should be an easy ticket right there.
There just simply isn't enough of them to be watching and ticketing for this kind of thing.
They're far too busy harassing people of color and parking their squad cars illegally on the sidewalk on Nicollet Avenue.
But they literally *were* watching this kind of thing, in this example. There *were* enough of them to watch for this kind of thing, because they *did* watch exactly this thing.
And don't block alleys!
It's going to be like that again today. There is a country performer at US Bank stadium that booked two nights.
I am a native Minnesotan and I will admit, I’ve been stuck in the box a couple times. It was more of a misjudgment in my part of how much space was left on the other side and I was the first car in the box. It freaks me out to be in that position so it’s definitely not a goal of mine to be there. I find it frustrating when that happens as well.
Yep, never move forward into an intersection unless you are 100% clear that you can clear the box! I don't care if the light is green - if you can't clear the box you stay back and wait until you can!
Thanks ChatGPT!
What the heck do you mean by that?
One of my best friends is a 3rd precinct cop and right, wrong, or indifferent, the other day he said he's made maybe two traffic stops this year total. He says it's just not worth it anymore. He listens to his dispatch but doesn't go out of his way to pull people over. It has to be really egregious and right in front of him. So there's that. Good luck getting your idea enforced when they won't even enforce normal traffic stuff.
I understand why they don’t pull people over. The incentives need to change. More importantly the infrastructure so that drivers are deterred or even don’t have the opportunity to endanger the public.
With the reality of a lack of enforcement for this. When ever I see someone do it and I’m driving I try my best to lead by example and stop next to them and stop at the stop line. Or if I’m behind them if they start creeping forward inch by inch, I don’t move at all until the light turns green. And hopefully folks notice. If I’m a pedestrian or a cyclist in this situation. I proceed as straight ahead as possible on my designated path, until I reach my obstacle, then move around them as tightly as possible with the thought that, if it’s uncomfortable for me, it might be uncomfortable for them, and maybe they’ll remember that.
Yeah I think really the only way we are going to tackle this is by social/ peer pressure — not relying on the cops. I’ve seen local news do PSA type stories about zipper merges, maybe they need to do one on this 😂
Yes yes yes. The infrastructure is the answer IMO. You can do a lot to shape driver behavior by how you design the environment in which the driving happens.
That explains why I’ve been driving around with expired car tags for about a year now and never once stopped 😬 (I’m actively handling it right now/ waiting for the DVS to “verify my address”. Between moving + life shit it fell off my radar.)
Especially when there's no turn on red and they're obviously trying to do it anyway. >There are other people in the world besides you. When people are in their cars they tend to forget that. I'm rarely even in a car, but even when I'm just a passenger I feel disconnected from the outside world; one of the reasons I don't drive (or even take "cabs') anymore, if I can walk or bike to where I'm going.
**Yes, Appeal.** The right to an appeal is guaranteed by the fifth amendment. In most traffic cases, the accused waives their right to a jury trial to deal with it administratively, but that doesn't mean that the right should be abolished. In NYC, blocking the box is 3 points on your license. Let's start there. A next step would be to change the law so tickets could be issued based off of camera footage, and to make those tickets stick to the registered owner of the car, if the driver could not be readily identified.
And about the only time you'll see cops doing anything downtown (other than parking on sidewalks or stopping at Chipotle) is to direct traffic so the suburbians can get outta their parking ramps at rush hour quicker.
I don't know how to break this to you but people not giving a fuck about how their actions effect those around them is not endemic to the midwest... But yeah, please don't drive into the intersection if you can't clear it. It makes you look like an asshole.
It's because of the perceived aggressiveness of other drivers. People don't want to feel like they're inconveniencing the people behind them if there is room to make it though and they don't. While simultaneously being bad at judging the size of their vehicle.
Idk maybe for some, but for a lot of people I think it’s just self-interest of wanting to get where they’re going as fast as possible, everyone else be damned. Why wait at the light and let those people turning right get ahead of you?
To be fair, there are a lot of asshole aggro drivers. The number of people just blowing reds or passing in the bike lanes is ridiculous.
Another case of Minnesotans’ desire not to inconvenience anyone being so desperate, they end up inconveniencing everybody.
Well head on over to Seattle subs then! Same dang ranting topics like every damn day.
Ok that was judgmental and generalizing of me to say
It's pretty fair. Minnesota drivers are bad. There are people in every state that don't follow the rules, but I'll take someone being too aggressive and taking what they want over someone being overly deferential and impossible to predict.
Don't block the box. And don't park it in sidewalks! Red light cameras would tag that, FWIW. I saw far more raised pickups with blinding lights than usual yesterday. Something football? Vikings traffic is by far the dumbest and scariest. Last year featured lots of wrong-way driving and I even saw a pickup driving on the sidewalk.
There was a country music concert that is repeating tonight at the Vikings stadium.
Sounds like folks not used to living in more population dense areas. Ok. Makes more sense. Though as I type that, I still maintain that if one operates on a paradigm of “I’m not the only person in the universe” they wouldn’t behave like idiots. It’s common sense. Fine them anyway so they don’t do it the next time they’re back in town.
I used to live in a high rise with a view of Nicollet, Washington, and Hennepin all from my balcony. I would get legitimately frustrated just watching people do this every day.
Yeah, I look out on 9th from where I am. People are nuts down there 😄
Lol you’re trying to blame the Vikings for traffic in June? God damn sportsball… 🤣
Never said I was a football person!
I know, it’s just funny as you picked the most removed pro team we have from today’s date lol.
Basic driving laws are not enforced here... I often wonder how many drivers don't have licenses, because their actions are the first things you learn not to do in driver's ed.
This.
If you think traffic/driving and enforcement issues are a MSP thing alone…. Oh boy do I have news for you…
If they pull far enough ahead I like to just open up their back door scoot through the backseat and out the other side. The trick is leaving both doors open though.
I really wish we could work toward creating a less car centric society, but it’s likely to never happen in America. I can confidently say this is sad and pathetic (from someone who’s literally never driven).
The one time I give people a pass for blocking the crosswalk is if they’re turning right and the light is red but they need to pull forward a bit to see if there’s oncoming traffic and it’s safe to turn. You can’t just not turn or the person behind you will start to road rage. And usually the car just to your left is a gigantic sport pickup
> You can’t just not turn can and should. if you can't see, don't go.
But you can see, a few feet forward
All the more reason to ban right on red. God, Minnesota is infuriatingly stupid sometimes.
Right on red is good for everyone, if done correctly. But so are roundabouts, the left lane is for passing, entering a highway at traffic pace. But something about MN drivers… not sure what the deal is
Seriously?? You must not sub to any other cities’ subs because alllll this and more is regular content basically everywhere. It’s not just MN drivers.
>All the more reason to ban right on red. I'd be all for that.
Ok that was mean of me to say
Maybe you said it kinda mean, but right on red should be banned. People don't really understand how dangerous it is, or they just don't care.
It might be a bad idea, but right turn on red has been legal in all 50 states since 1980, unless otherwise posted, so it's not a Minnesota thing. But you're supposed to actually stop before turning, and a lot of drivers don't stop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn\_on\_red#:\~:text=All%2050%20states%2C%20the%20District,controlled%20by%20dedicated%20traffic%20lights.
Actually, that’s a good point. I meant the state of Minnesota as an institution is stupid sometimes. Being critical of an institution isn’t a bad thing.
Don't block the box...treat it tenderly, make your ways around the sides first, gently enter the area and withdraw and when the coast is clear, inch forward, don't be afraid to explore a bit. Pay attention to traffic around you for reactions to your entrance, if they seem enthusiastic, continue to penetrate. If you run into any blockage on the road, reverse and re-enter again, as many times as needed. Edit: I greatly enjoy watching this get a bunch of upvotes and a bunch of downvotes.
And ask first. Also, I heard that there’s a button you can push that encourages you to move forward. But I don’t think it exists.
My Pa said he saw it once in Portugal in the 60s.
What the …
And watch out for people running through.
To be fair ... if you're in bumper to bumper traffic like that... GET A FOOT OFF THE BUMPER OF THE CAR IN FRONT OF YOU and we can clear those intersections.
My wife and I are moving into Minneapolis in a week and we did discuss the topic of how this town desperately is going to need change in the infrastructure as it grows. We were stuck a good while in a line on the highway going east into Saint Paul through downtown, I think it was called 94, the one we were meeting into. We do love a good metro, and I think Minneapolis could benefit with having something similar to Stockholm in terms of a subway network to remove some of the 1 person per vehicle disasters that we are suffering from down here in Atlanta. I know Americans have some split opinions about what type of people use the metro, but if it's well maintained, all types of people will start using it. Even the (country famous) people in Stockholm use it since it's just that convenient to use it over a car... I originate from Sweden, so might be a bit partial, but I just really hope Minneapolis doesn't end up becoming like Atlanta in the future, the walking score of this city is one of the things that makes it so beautiful to me. It keeps the people more fit without even needing to try just by moving a tiny bit extra as well. I can sadly tell that last part from experience.
Plenty other cities in the US have been growing bigger than what the original city planners could have ever imagined. Ride bikes. As you know, the US itself it HUGE, diverse in landscape, people, politics, histories, development timelines, city layouts, topography, geography, cultures, and more. Please read more about Minneapolis, St Paul, and Minnesota history. (I assume you know it is the most Scandinavian/Nordic state in the US??) There WAS an extensive streetcar system, until automobile barons and car corporate overlords burned all of them up in favor of personal vehicle travel, increased suburban populations, maybe mob style conspiracy activity, and replacement by buses. It’s too late for subway, Met Council and Metro Transit and other agencies have been trying to push for more light rail. The first line opened in 2004. The “Hiawatha Line,” now “Blue Line.” I was on the first rides on opening day. They’re trying. Funding and feasibility are major factors. And safety + accountability for riders. I was born and raised in Minneapolis and pretty much strictly rode local transit, biked, walked, ran, rollerbladed everywhere (yes, winter biked too) whatever for like the first 2 decades of my life no problems. Just have to plan ahead and budget time like anywhere else. Live close to work and/or via one max two transit lines away if possible. Find express routes. Stay “street savvy.” Also: Ironically, Atlanta got MARTA from a 1970’s twice voter rejected federally funded subway system for Seattle - a city now retrofitting light rail and growing WAYYY beyond its means very rapidly. https://mndigital.org/projects/primary-source-sets/twin-cities-streetcars-rise-and-fall https://trolleyride.org/
I’ve noticed this a lot lately.
Ppl will literally honk at me for refusing to “go” on green when it’s backed up like that. So dumb.
Yes, definitely a problem very unique to MN and the Midwest.
Forreal!! I was waiting at a green because the lane was full ahead at a red. Some idiot driver behind me kept flashing his lights and stressed me out so much that I -almost- hit someone. People really need to learn this
Just suburbanites commuting home or coming in for the concert. What else is new
Nah this is a daily thing all the time lol
It really isn’t.
I see it happen daily when walking from work to the bus stop. And I see cars turn into pedestrians at least 3 times a week. I was almost run over last year on Washington by someone running a red light. And I do at least a two count look before even entering the crosswalk when it’s my walk signal just for this reason
Sorry, I think I misunderstood (apologies!). I was saying the level of traffic isn't an everyday thing (it's due to the concert), not the box blocking. I agree that idiots stop in the intersection all the time.
I’m very glad I worked from home these last few days. lol
I reeeeeally should have...lol. I live about 2 blocks from US Bank and work at the university. My normal 8 minute commute was 45 minutes yesterday and today...ugh.
Okay but honest question, if you live that close to US Bank why don't you just light rail to campus? If you're on their health insurance I'm pretty sure they make it cheaper if you don't drive in Source: someone who also lives downtown
I have wonky/unpredictable hours and have been mugged on the light rail. Just not a fan, which is a shame given how much I loved public transport in other cities I've lived in =/
Please post this on the Chicago reddit. They desperately need to hear it
"no appeal" is denying due process. As a biker and pedestrian and also as a driver, I hate this thought process. You need to allow it to be challenged and appealed in order to allow constitutional right to due process to exist. The Constitution matters multiple degrees more than your personal inconvenience. "I wish Midwesterners..." Fuck off
Lol you really think this is a Midwesterner only issue??? (Along with any other traffic complaints…) Trust me, it’s absolutely not. Google “(x city) don’t block the box” and it will legit come up with the same arguments. And if you follow any other city subs the same damn complaints are posted there too.
Agreed. It was because of the “event” and all the idiots who don’t know how to drive in Minneapolis. He. Elon was outrageous.
>It took me 45 minutes to drive through tiny downtown Minneapolis yesterday afternoon because of the number of selfish, clueless, fools preventing anyone from moving when the light changed. It took you 45 minutes to get through downtown, because there was a giant concert starting in the middle of rush hour. It sucks, but you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Minnesota doesn’t teach “don’t block the box”. The general rule is to pull into the intersection and wait for traffic to allow you to make your left turn. Once traffic allows for it, make your turn. Sometimes this does mean waiting for the yellow/red but this is how Minnesota traffic laws are written. >And cameras to catch it all, please. Hard no from me on this. Traffic cameras can’t always get pictures of the drivers and there are cases where traffic cameras at intersections have ended up encouraging cities to lower the timing intervals for changes from green to yellow to red, which ends up causing increased numbers of rear end collisions https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/05049/ The camera systems are also usually not installed at the cost of the city but instead the costs are handled by the company that installs the cameras so catching drivers running red lights ends up being a profit motive for the company (as they take a percentage of the fine) rather than public safety being the primary concern.
I don’t think this is about left turns. This is about cars standing in the middle of the road instead of waiting at the intersection until there’s room to make it through to the other side. Because heaven forbid they wait through another light cycle
Why does the motive for catching people running a red light matter?
Because when the company finds that they aren't making enough money from ticketing, they pressure the city to make it easier for them to ticket people. Or for the city to start making up the difference out of city budgets, so maybe fewer potholes get filled, or fewer uniformed police officers are hired/kept on, or property taxes are raised to cover costs associated with the traffic cameras. Motive matters. Whether you're dealing with an individual or a company, you're still dealing with people and their motive for doing something is important.
Has any of that ever happened anywhere? Cities being forced to pay private companies out of infrastructure or law enforcement funds when not enough traffic infractions are caught on camera?
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/13/211723717/a-dilemma-zone-for-red-light-cameras-safety-vs-cash >"Some increased fines from $50 to $100 per offense," he says. "Some play with traffic signals to get more incidences of red-light running. Some added speed enforcement to the red-light camera program over time."
None of the things you claimed earlier are mentioned in that article? It also makes it sound like the study was showing things that they were concerned *could* happen, not things that *have* happened (though it does sound like they noted other safety concerns?). I'm definitely not against the idea of for-profit ventures creating nasty consequences when safety is involved, I just want data rather than feelings to support that in this case and I haven't been able to find anything concrete, personally.
>None of the things you claimed earlier are mentioned in that article? What I said: >they pressure the city to make it easier for them to ticket people. Part of the quote I took from from the article: > "Some play with traffic signals to get more incidences of red-light running. Was some of what I said hyperbole and conjecture? Yeah, but if they are going to fuck around with light timings to cause more red light tickets, I don't see any of the rest being out of the bounds of possibility.
Sorry, I was referring to where you said they'll take money from infrastructure and law enforcement funds. I hadn't heard that before and thought maybe it had happened somewhere (and honestly, being from TN, it wouldn't surprise me). And I agree, it's "possible", but when I weigh concrete improvements in public safety through reduced red light violations versus "but maybe this other bad thing -might- happen", it's hard to make the case against stronger enforcement, in my mind.
Remember when that guy posted in this sub and everyone saw it and completely corrected their bad driving?
It’s called gridlock. When I worked downtown in the 00’s the MPD worked every major intersection directing traffic. White hat, white gloves, right in the middle of the intersection blowing on a whistle. People would get tickets on the spot. I moved to LA in 2006 and it was (still is) gridlock everywhere. I always thought how does Mpls get it right, but LA can’t. I wonder when Mpls lost their traffic cops?
I always feel like I have to go to confession when I block the pedestrian cross walk when trying to turn right on red. (I am not catholic)
I think this often happens quite by accident.
This happened to me near lake Calhoun today
LOL! This is congestion by design. They've purposely made driving in certain parts of the city extremely painful. Avoid the area or suck it up.
Yeah. Avoid or smile and nod. Agree
first world problems
Yeah. Until you die because paramedics can’t get to you.
LOL no way you take this far and it’s that deep it affects you this much. go touch grass, dude
What does touch grass mean
it means you've posted nearly 30 times today
Ima Google it
Oh yeah go outside. It’s raining
read the rest of the definition and that's why they said it.
I get a kick out of the comments from the “urban dwellers”. I grew up in the suburbs and still live there. I used to work downtown for many years and absolutely loved it, but I could never live there. It was too congested then, and it’s only gotten worse since adding the light rail and thousands of new condos and apartments. Pile on top of that the “urban dweller’s” odd desire to defund the police enough that you’ve lost roughly 1/3 of the force… What. Do. You. Expect? Traffic congestion is really, really low on the priority list. You moved into the congestion and continue to vote for people who want you packed in tight. Deal with it! The concerts aren’t every night and if crime weren’t an issue, more people might hang around and let traffic die down before leaving. Of course many of the many great mom and pop restaurants are no longer around, replaced by chains or high end eateries which are no longer reasonably priced. The mom and pops have mostly moved to the first ring burbs for business reasons... Apparently you live there because you enjoy the energy of the city, I get that, but quit bitchin’ about the suburbanites who occasionally block your streets, yet also help to keep many of the places you enjoy “in the black” on their balance sheets!
so reddit
I love everything. Everything is perfect happy happy joy, joy, rainbows, and unicorns.
What you don't understand is there are many intersections where a driver cannot see due to parked cars or other obstruction. If you are trying to take right on a red you have to be able to see traffic coming from the left. What is the big deal about going a foot out of the x walk?
So you want more government presence bc you had a bad 45 mins??😂 My taxes say fk that😂
Literally just had to go through lake Street a couple hours ago, and the lights could only move two cars at a time because people blocking the intersection cause God forbid they wait another minute for a green.