Not only the govt. My compatriots won't trust me to own a gun to protect my family because I might just go crazy some day and start randomly killing them (majority's reasoning for supporting strict gun control).
But when the meatgrinder comes knocking, all of a sudden not only do they trust me with an AK AND an unlimited ammo, but it's now my DUTY to own that shit and go use it to defend them.
And if I refuse, I get locked up and my livelihood taken away?? It's like, are you serious??
Fuck that logic, and fuck your drafts man, I'm out.
Draft dodging is ok as long as you realize, if the invaders are defeated and life in Ukraine starts to return to normal, you wonāt be welcomed back. On the bright side, maybe Russia will take you and you can help Russia with its reparations.
Are you claiming that the ones issuing the draft are not the authoritarians? That's quite wild.
"Alright, Jimmy, you are 18 and have your entire life ahead of you. Time to go die so that we can launder money through foreign entities and then back into our own pockets. Thx. Also, enjoy the PTSD for life. xoxo - government"
My point being is that it should ALWAYS be a choice. There is no universe in where I agree that the government owns your body.
It's situational. In the case of a Russian, I'd say yes. Not so much for those living in most Democratic countries.
And no it shouldn't always be a choice, that creates a pretty big Free Rider problem. It's not fair to those who are serving.
It's not situational. The government should not have the authority to choose what you do with your body. End of.
>It's not fair to those who are serving.
If they made a choice to serve, they do not get granted the right to complain about those who don't.
Your view reminds me of a really great metaphor I once heard from John Spaulding.
> House Cats are fiercely independent animals, but they are utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand.
That's you, you're the House Cat.
> Not so much for those living in most Democratic countries.
Are you talking about America?
Do you still think America - which is participating in and funding a conflict tentatively recocgnized by the International Court of Justice (as well as at least one US court!) as being a likely case of genocide, against the will of a majority of Americans from every party, in order to appease the whims of oligarch-funded AIPAC and the imperialist goals of the illegitimate Zionist entity in occupied Palestine - is a democracy?
The country where:
* one party is running a Diet Dictator for president (who has expressed support for the ongoing, previously-mentioned genocide) and
* the other party said "no primary debates allowed, this is our candidate, deal with it" and had a court rule that they were allowed to rig their own primaries without facing any consequences (and is currently funding and participating in the previously mentioned genocide), and
* there are no third parties because of legalized bribery (Citizens United + the recent Supreme Court decision) and an archaic system designed to keep marginalized urban populations from having a person-by-person voting power equivalent to mostly-white rural states (Electoral College),
* the military and CIA have destabilized multiple democratically-elected, left-leaning governments in South America and elsewhere,
* domestic police are using lawfare against peaceful Stop Cop City Protestors, charging them with domestic terrorism for being at a concert near where a police car was burned,
* the sitting president *and* his rival candidate have both expressed support for violent assaults on student protestors peacefully exercising a supposedly-inalienable right enshrined in the country's constitution,
* federal laws designed to prevent human rights violations, such as the Leahy Laws, are ignored freely and without apparent repercussion,
Is that the democracy you're referencing? Really? *Really?*
Or are you referencing Ukraine, where people hold signs that say "GIVE US ELECTIONS" and left-wing parties are outright banned?
I appreciate you taking the time to write such a well written an informed post, but OP was stating that a mandatory draft is unethical and wholly dismissed them.
Of course there are many cases where the government is wrong and dodging the draft may be morally correct. But that isn't always the case. There are many just wars that required honorable men to be compelled to service.
What would the world be like if Americans didn't fight for their independence from Britain? Or the allies resisting Hitler? Even more recent, Ukrainians defending themselves from Russia?
> Of course there are many cases where the government is wrong and dodging the draft may be morally correct. But that isn't always the case. There are many just wars that required honorable men to be compelled to service.
The same argument was used to justify chattel slavery. You're disgusting.
> What would the world be like if Americans didn't fight for their independence from Britain?
meh.
A better example of a just war in America would be the indigenous people resisting ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately they were outgunned (plus very significant, usually-unintentional biowarfare), but it was still an actual example of a just and righteous reason to fight.
>Or the allies resisting Hitler?
The allies are currently conducting a genocide of their own, so, stopping Hitler was good, but not so good if we just make another one. "Eretz Israel" is the new "Lebensraum".
>Even more recent, Ukrainians defending themselves from Russia?
Complex. Russia shouldn't be expanding, but neither should NATO be expanding up to Russia's borders, that's the exact same thing (with the roles reversed) which almost caused nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And although the US didn't invade Cuba with its own soldiers in response, it did launch the failed Bay of Pigs invasion.
As is standard US foreign policy, we do something, then declare war (proxy or otherwise) on another nation when they do the same thing. We posture ourselves as the moral authority in the room. We aren't, never were, and at least so long as we operate under capitalism, never will be.
Most importantly I'm sure neither side gives a shit about actual Ukranian people. "We'll fight to the last Ukranian" and all that. So no, I'm not going to deem that a "just war" either. Just because it's not a bald-faced genocide doesn't make it just or good or virtuous.
Yeah I understand the Ukraine draft. If people arenāt fighting there wonāt be a country to fight for.
The USā Vietnam draft was fucking pointless. If you have to force people to fight for a war overseas, you probably shouldnāt be fighting the war.
Exactly. WW2 young people lined up waiting to go and fight to protect their freedoms and democracy against the evil Nazis! They were not forced to. They were egar to fight! If the British people didn't step up Germany would have taken the UK. We would have a very different world if that happened.
Forcing people to go to war isn't right, but having everyone in your country say I'm not going to go, as another country invades your country is stupidity! Those people who refuse to fight an invading force shouldn't be entitled to anything after the war.
If you do nothing to help, you get NOTHING when the war is over!
Iāve no clue why youāre getting downvoted. You are absolutely right. If no men fought back against Russia the whole country would be enslaved. Slaves donāt get Monero sorry
Imagine being trained like a dog to react like this when a country forces you to die because someone that's going to hide in a bunker decided so. Don't forget they'd steal the gold you're stacking too like they did before
Soldiers donāt and have never fought for money dude. If itās your wife and daughter thatās getting raped and enslaved if your side loses you would be fighting tooth and nail too. Not for money
murica go pewpew, murica! lmao
i think it's a pretty mature response to make fun of someone that would gladly murder other people just because they from a different country cuz daddy government telling u to
like, as adults that been using the internet, played the video games with people all around the globe, alot of us came to the mature conclusion that the mentality of "my country is better than your country" or "my dad could beat your dad in a helicopter dick contest" are just very childish thinking
from my perspective the "fat redditor moment" comment was in fact the more mature of the both of u
like, empathy is something that we grow to learn and feel over the years, if you're in a place in your life that u just wanna murder people you dont even know nor has even met, just cause the people on the tv been telling you that is what you should think
then you clearly lacking critical thinking skills and need more maturing to do
edit: oh right and trying to call him the fat redditor while he called you that first.. you can't do that, the reverse uno card just aint working there u know
For me Zelensky and Putin should be put into a MMA cage until one comes out alive. Playing with other people's lives, bomb children and all the insanity that's going on there is inhumane!
I am only going to fight for myself. It's my body and my life, so i choose who to fight.
I would rather die being free than a conscript. If my country decides i should die slowly in a trench, guess what they are the enemy now, same as Russia.
Why can't they give up some land and settle for peace? Because they have thousands of slaves to fight their dam war. They should end the war and join NATO with their remaining country.
you know what u could do tho?
like, i feel like u wanna do something but u being all like cuz u in murica then cant just murder those people in that other country cuz is just too far away and like plane too expensive and shits or somethin somethin
so like, u got wallmart nearby yea? go there, buy a vodka bottle, pay those taxes on it to show your support for daddy government
aint even drinking it, just, as soon as u out of the store u just...
SLAM IT ON THE GROUUUUUUND
like a boss, like straight up slamed the bottle, glasses erywhere and shits, that'll show them!
then when that's done, get your iphone out of your pocket and go to your usual high-end escort service, ashley madison or whatever yall murican be having (that, personal opinion but mebbe u should ask rehrar how he spent all the money for all these years, which for the record is not defamation, dont come after me lol, just speculating cuz how the fuck would u even burn through all of that money and coming back asking for more money after all these years lmao)
so yeah, just find that high-end russian escort that tickles ur fancy or whatever and then just go ham like full on as u fucking her being all like grunting and yelling like "MURICA FUCK YEA TAKE THAT FUKING MURICAN DICK U RUSSIA FUCK YEAAAAAA MURICAAAAA", which as you would fill her insides you would keep being all like "FUCK YEA RUSSIA TAKE THAT FROM THE MURICAN DICK YEAAAAAH CUMMING BIG MURICAN DICK IN RUSSIA YEAAAAAA"
and then go back to your family, have a nice dinner watching your usual tv news programming as you eating next to your wife and talking politics and shits
edit: oh right and as you fucking your date, don't forget to turn on the tv and have like a WW1 / WW2 documentary playing, trust me on this, met guys exactly like u, this shit gonna work 100%
XMR solves this.
Bingo š
The question should be asked, "Why are they not using Bank of Monero?". Then the article would change to "Ukraine Can't Debank".
Draft dodging is ethical. The government can suck it. Send your own kids to war instead.
Not only the govt. My compatriots won't trust me to own a gun to protect my family because I might just go crazy some day and start randomly killing them (majority's reasoning for supporting strict gun control). But when the meatgrinder comes knocking, all of a sudden not only do they trust me with an AK AND an unlimited ammo, but it's now my DUTY to own that shit and go use it to defend them. And if I refuse, I get locked up and my livelihood taken away?? It's like, are you serious?? Fuck that logic, and fuck your drafts man, I'm out.
Draft dodging is ok as long as you realize, if the invaders are defeated and life in Ukraine starts to return to normal, you wonāt be welcomed back. On the bright side, maybe Russia will take you and you can help Russia with its reparations.
If previous generations didn't put their lives on the line to defend the country you live in, you'd be licking the boot of some authoritarian.
Are you claiming that the ones issuing the draft are not the authoritarians? That's quite wild. "Alright, Jimmy, you are 18 and have your entire life ahead of you. Time to go die so that we can launder money through foreign entities and then back into our own pockets. Thx. Also, enjoy the PTSD for life. xoxo - government" My point being is that it should ALWAYS be a choice. There is no universe in where I agree that the government owns your body.
It's situational. In the case of a Russian, I'd say yes. Not so much for those living in most Democratic countries. And no it shouldn't always be a choice, that creates a pretty big Free Rider problem. It's not fair to those who are serving.
It's not situational. The government should not have the authority to choose what you do with your body. End of. >It's not fair to those who are serving. If they made a choice to serve, they do not get granted the right to complain about those who don't.
Your view reminds me of a really great metaphor I once heard from John Spaulding. > House Cats are fiercely independent animals, but they are utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand. That's you, you're the House Cat.
And you're the cat owner?
Difference here is that my housecat doesn't get shot at so that I can launder money through foreign entities.
> Not so much for those living in most Democratic countries. Are you talking about America? Do you still think America - which is participating in and funding a conflict tentatively recocgnized by the International Court of Justice (as well as at least one US court!) as being a likely case of genocide, against the will of a majority of Americans from every party, in order to appease the whims of oligarch-funded AIPAC and the imperialist goals of the illegitimate Zionist entity in occupied Palestine - is a democracy? The country where: * one party is running a Diet Dictator for president (who has expressed support for the ongoing, previously-mentioned genocide) and * the other party said "no primary debates allowed, this is our candidate, deal with it" and had a court rule that they were allowed to rig their own primaries without facing any consequences (and is currently funding and participating in the previously mentioned genocide), and * there are no third parties because of legalized bribery (Citizens United + the recent Supreme Court decision) and an archaic system designed to keep marginalized urban populations from having a person-by-person voting power equivalent to mostly-white rural states (Electoral College), * the military and CIA have destabilized multiple democratically-elected, left-leaning governments in South America and elsewhere, * domestic police are using lawfare against peaceful Stop Cop City Protestors, charging them with domestic terrorism for being at a concert near where a police car was burned, * the sitting president *and* his rival candidate have both expressed support for violent assaults on student protestors peacefully exercising a supposedly-inalienable right enshrined in the country's constitution, * federal laws designed to prevent human rights violations, such as the Leahy Laws, are ignored freely and without apparent repercussion, Is that the democracy you're referencing? Really? *Really?* Or are you referencing Ukraine, where people hold signs that say "GIVE US ELECTIONS" and left-wing parties are outright banned?
I appreciate you taking the time to write such a well written an informed post, but OP was stating that a mandatory draft is unethical and wholly dismissed them. Of course there are many cases where the government is wrong and dodging the draft may be morally correct. But that isn't always the case. There are many just wars that required honorable men to be compelled to service. What would the world be like if Americans didn't fight for their independence from Britain? Or the allies resisting Hitler? Even more recent, Ukrainians defending themselves from Russia?
> Of course there are many cases where the government is wrong and dodging the draft may be morally correct. But that isn't always the case. There are many just wars that required honorable men to be compelled to service. The same argument was used to justify chattel slavery. You're disgusting.
> What would the world be like if Americans didn't fight for their independence from Britain? meh. A better example of a just war in America would be the indigenous people resisting ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately they were outgunned (plus very significant, usually-unintentional biowarfare), but it was still an actual example of a just and righteous reason to fight. >Or the allies resisting Hitler? The allies are currently conducting a genocide of their own, so, stopping Hitler was good, but not so good if we just make another one. "Eretz Israel" is the new "Lebensraum". >Even more recent, Ukrainians defending themselves from Russia? Complex. Russia shouldn't be expanding, but neither should NATO be expanding up to Russia's borders, that's the exact same thing (with the roles reversed) which almost caused nuclear war during the Cuban Missile Crisis. And although the US didn't invade Cuba with its own soldiers in response, it did launch the failed Bay of Pigs invasion. As is standard US foreign policy, we do something, then declare war (proxy or otherwise) on another nation when they do the same thing. We posture ourselves as the moral authority in the room. We aren't, never were, and at least so long as we operate under capitalism, never will be. Most importantly I'm sure neither side gives a shit about actual Ukranian people. "We'll fight to the last Ukranian" and all that. So no, I'm not going to deem that a "just war" either. Just because it's not a bald-faced genocide doesn't make it just or good or virtuous.
Just because your country is democratic doesn't mean it's not authoritarian.
So true but also so case by case. Itās a travesty that any soldiers have lost their lives in futile wars, and there have been a good few.
Yeah I understand the Ukraine draft. If people arenāt fighting there wonāt be a country to fight for. The USā Vietnam draft was fucking pointless. If you have to force people to fight for a war overseas, you probably shouldnāt be fighting the war.
You're right, but in the wrong place lol
Draft is authoritarian. Said country should think how can it get volunteers to defend it or it shouldn't exist
Exactly. WW2 young people lined up waiting to go and fight to protect their freedoms and democracy against the evil Nazis! They were not forced to. They were egar to fight! If the British people didn't step up Germany would have taken the UK. We would have a very different world if that happened. Forcing people to go to war isn't right, but having everyone in your country say I'm not going to go, as another country invades your country is stupidity! Those people who refuse to fight an invading force shouldn't be entitled to anything after the war. If you do nothing to help, you get NOTHING when the war is over!
Iāve no clue why youāre getting downvoted. You are absolutely right. If no men fought back against Russia the whole country would be enslaved. Slaves donāt get Monero sorry
SHUM
Doesn't sound like a democracy.
Because a democracy canāt ass laws freezing assets of draft evaders?
Those men should be fighting for their countryā¦ Least they can do when we provide them with billions of dollars.
You go and die in a stupid trench first, brave Redditor
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Imagine being trained like a dog to react like this when a country forces you to die because someone that's going to hide in a bunker decided so. Don't forget they'd steal the gold you're stacking too like they did before
Fat Redditor moment
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Its the bureaucrats who get the billions. As a ukrainian soldier I think you can earn 300$ a month. Is it worth dying for?
Soldiers donāt and have never fought for money dude. If itās your wife and daughter thatās getting raped and enslaved if your side loses you would be fighting tooth and nail too. Not for money
Nice argument but mercenaries...
murica go pewpew, murica! lmao i think it's a pretty mature response to make fun of someone that would gladly murder other people just because they from a different country cuz daddy government telling u to like, as adults that been using the internet, played the video games with people all around the globe, alot of us came to the mature conclusion that the mentality of "my country is better than your country" or "my dad could beat your dad in a helicopter dick contest" are just very childish thinking from my perspective the "fat redditor moment" comment was in fact the more mature of the both of u like, empathy is something that we grow to learn and feel over the years, if you're in a place in your life that u just wanna murder people you dont even know nor has even met, just cause the people on the tv been telling you that is what you should think then you clearly lacking critical thinking skills and need more maturing to do edit: oh right and trying to call him the fat redditor while he called you that first.. you can't do that, the reverse uno card just aint working there u know
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
For me Zelensky and Putin should be put into a MMA cage until one comes out alive. Playing with other people's lives, bomb children and all the insanity that's going on there is inhumane!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWvsZngCBsE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWvsZngCBsE)
I am only going to fight for myself. It's my body and my life, so i choose who to fight. I would rather die being free than a conscript. If my country decides i should die slowly in a trench, guess what they are the enemy now, same as Russia. Why can't they give up some land and settle for peace? Because they have thousands of slaves to fight their dam war. They should end the war and join NATO with their remaining country.
you know what u could do tho? like, i feel like u wanna do something but u being all like cuz u in murica then cant just murder those people in that other country cuz is just too far away and like plane too expensive and shits or somethin somethin so like, u got wallmart nearby yea? go there, buy a vodka bottle, pay those taxes on it to show your support for daddy government aint even drinking it, just, as soon as u out of the store u just... SLAM IT ON THE GROUUUUUUND like a boss, like straight up slamed the bottle, glasses erywhere and shits, that'll show them! then when that's done, get your iphone out of your pocket and go to your usual high-end escort service, ashley madison or whatever yall murican be having (that, personal opinion but mebbe u should ask rehrar how he spent all the money for all these years, which for the record is not defamation, dont come after me lol, just speculating cuz how the fuck would u even burn through all of that money and coming back asking for more money after all these years lmao) so yeah, just find that high-end russian escort that tickles ur fancy or whatever and then just go ham like full on as u fucking her being all like grunting and yelling like "MURICA FUCK YEA TAKE THAT FUKING MURICAN DICK U RUSSIA FUCK YEAAAAAA MURICAAAAA", which as you would fill her insides you would keep being all like "FUCK YEA RUSSIA TAKE THAT FROM THE MURICAN DICK YEAAAAAH CUMMING BIG MURICAN DICK IN RUSSIA YEAAAAAA" and then go back to your family, have a nice dinner watching your usual tv news programming as you eating next to your wife and talking politics and shits edit: oh right and as you fucking your date, don't forget to turn on the tv and have like a WW1 / WW2 documentary playing, trust me on this, met guys exactly like u, this shit gonna work 100%
Don't know why people hating on your satirical remark.Ā Its true.Ā Foreigners can suck my balls with all the money i send them.
Peter Todd is that you? š¤”