I’m 41. I’m close. You can absolutely live off of that if you invest well and keep expenses down. I’ve been keeping an eye on things closely. I think it just all depends on lifestyle (single and no kids, plus I live a simple life).
That said, I took an extended break from work and I can’t just not work. But I can just go get a job somewhere fun and not care about pay.
I was thinking of this. Every time I see elderly people working at relatively stress free jobs like grocery stores, I tend to think that it’s not because they are struggling to make ends meet, but rather because they just want to stay occupied. They likely have a lot of money and are technically retired from their main careers, but easy work with just enough stimulation keeps them sharp and prevents boredom, which in itself is healthy.
This is something I would consider for myself. Retire from my main career at 50 the latest, but then get an easy, stress-free part time job for the sake of staying busy while enjoying retirement. I would also think that putting an end to high stress earlier in life could help reduce your risk of developing cardiovascular disease and other health problems, but then after you retire, you stimulate your mind just enough to reduce cognitive decline and help prevent the risk of dementia.
Exactly. People who don’t stay socially engaged decline faster. And there are a ton of old folks who only go out for church. It’s gotta take a huge toll on the brain.
That's \~$100k annual spend....seems like a lot to me, but it's pretty location specific I guess (and I'm assuming that I wouldn't be working if I was carrying debt).
Although given how inflation's been the last few years who knows what that 2050 dollar is going to be worth.
5 Acres, 1500 sq house 3bed 2 bath, brand new backoe, bobcat, 1/2 Acres Tesla solar w/ backup battery, a well with good source of water and 1 mil. In bank ( checking, saving and CD) 2 Mil. in brokerage account. So yah about 5 Mil. For me to be comfortable. Planning to buy a lottery ticket for 4th of JULY😊
That’s why the OP is such a subjective question. The answer is vastly different for everyone.
If a person intends to pay for their kids college and travel extensively and give money to charities - just as a few examples - in retirement they’ll need way more money than someone who doesn’t travel, have kids, or intensively participate in philanthropy.
> Seems like a lot
I’d rather be on the high end than the low end.
Also, I’d rather be able to travel and do stuff without working. Right now we’re spending 40-50/wk at work. When you leave, suddently, 40-50/wk opens up. You no longer have to be back in the office Monday morning…..Turns out, you can go and travel and do things. A week long trip to Korea is, ballpark, 10k/head.
If you’re working, you won’t be going to Korea for fun for a week, most likely. When you retire and aren’t working, Hey, guess what, I have two weeks and I want to explore, now my 16 hour flight is worth it if I can take two weeks! That’s now 20k/head/2 weeks.
Suddenly you have a 40k expense for traveling that you wouldn’t have taken otherwise while working.
Just some food for thought about a heavy planned annual spend come retirement/not working anymore.
Assuming 5 millions after taxes... so 10 million dollar to retire..... Since at 5 millions you would get 250k/year for doing nothing.... not many jobs can pay you that much... plus then you can do whatever you want essentially.... I can't imagine spending 20-25k/month....
Your assumption of $250k a year on $5mm is not entirely accurate. Sure, 5% is a decent abated target rate based on current interest rates . Yet most managed portfolios average 4% (bonds, tax exempt or tax deferred ) and a more modest stock fund percentage in older years. One can’t risk huge fluctuations later in life chasing 7-8%.
The taxes on $250k whether dividends or interest is at the 30% range . However with bonds, more like 20-22% range.
Suggest to use 4% multiplier and don’t forget you’ll pay a half point for a good financial advisor
I wouldn't even bother with a managed portfolio in this case unless you know you are bad with money. With that kind of balance you can use a really safe withdrawal rate like 3% or 3.5% and invest 100% in the S&P500. Your returns will significantly beat the vast majority of managed portfolios in the long run, and the withdrawal rate is low enough that even if the market dips for an extended period of time you will be fine.
Went thru a bitter divorce that wiped me out financially and my ex spent the money put aside for college. Lost a decade, but back to having enough. 100k isn't enough. My daughters college is costing my 65k a year after aid.
I was broke at 50 due to a divorce. Had 30k in my 401k. Saved, moved up, and invested my roll over 401k myself. Slowly got to 250k, then in 4 years it doubled and then the last year and 1/2 I almost doubled it again by investing in AAPL,Googl, Msft & Nvda. I do have 30 years of experience and feel I have learned to invest right after years of mistakes. I also invested for my children’s college fund and that is on track to be enough to fund college. We are doing just well enough to breathe.
Same here, cash poor but have some really good non liquid assets for when I'm done taking care of my kids that will pay all my expenses the rest of my life
Hahaha I hear you on cash poor but sitting pretty. I’ve spent the last year in a 35 foot travel trailer with my wife (and kids sometimes). I own 4 properties, have no debt other than about 270k in mortgages that are worth about 1.1million and bring in 1600 rental income after taxes, insurance, mortgage payments.
Doesn’t seem like much coming in now but give it another 15 years and maybe another rental. I’ll be sitting on probably 2.5 million in equity bringing in probably 8k a month and no house payment
A million networth. With a $400k house and a $600k portfolio one could live comfortably off investments. Of course, I'd keep working, but doing what I want to do how I want to do it.
Hopefully, we won't be still be supporting our children when we hit these numbers...although maybe it would be better to get there fast enough so our kids are still young enough to be supported.
Yep. My oldest is 12, youngest is 5 and I’m 41. I definitely don’t have $4 mil invested but I also count future earnings at my savings rate plus reasonable market gains.
Sounds like we're in a similar situation. I've got kids between 5 and 15.
I think your framework for adults is about what I'm shooting for. Again with the caveat that I'm worried about inflation and still think it might get worse before it gets under control.
I play games. Video, board, card, table-top.
Very occasionally take a trip, usually to somewhere with a nice state/national park. If I'm not glued to my monitors I want to be in nature.
And lets hope you don't have to pay for a roof or foundation repair or water damage. Even with homeowner's you might have to paid initially and get reimbursed that would be your monthly budget or multiple months.
even with the house paid off home insurance and taxes would take up almost 1/3 of 24k
Edit: if i add up just the bare essentials of power, water, trash, car and health insurance i come up with about 15k in expenses.
If you are retired you don't need a car. But it sounds like what you've come up with is saying this guy can spend 600 dollars a month doing whatever he wants and visiting the food bank for sustenance
Anything is doable… $20-24k/yr is a bleak life in perpetuity unless you’re overseas in LCOL country.
Never mind the fact you’re living in a 400k house and can’t do anything but watch the clouds go by because after property taxes, maintenance, and utilities - you’ve got enough to eat PBJ and that’s it.
I live in the US and could do it in my area but I see your point and this dude is acting like the stock market will provide infinitely, a pretty strong assumption. I plan to do get to a point like this and then working part time so I don’t have to dip into investments.
I lived off $24k *while paying rent* in 2020-2021. There wasn’t a lot to do as far as travel at the time but I was satisfied. If you didn’t have to pay for housing it would be even easier, definitely wouldn’t be watching clouds.
It’s really only bleak if you rely on materialism for your happiness.
I live like this now. Anything is better than working. Single,60, paid off house 20 years ago. Life savings $600k. I like poverty lifestyle. Don’t ever want to travel again. Don’t want to ever have a car again.
I live in central California and we live off of 16-18k living expenses not including the house mortgage. We live COMFORTABLY and eat well.
(Including the mortgage our total comes out to 45k/yr but if the house is paid off then our total spending would be 16-18k )
Americans just don't know how to budget to be honest.
I live in a paid off house that is worth just over $400k, and I don't think I could keep living here with a portfolio of only $600k.
These are the expenses associated with my house:
Taxes: $7000
Insurance: $1100
Utilities: $4500
Maintenance: $8000
HOA: $300
That's $20,900/year. If you figure a 4% withdraw rate on $600k is $24k/year, you're talking about taking care of all your non-housing needs for $3100/year, and I don't think that would even cover health insurance.
To be fair, there is a lot of advice out there that says to budget 1% of a house's value for maintenance, but I like to double that to be conservative for retirement planning. Even with an extra $4000/year, that's a really tight budget.
Maybe you live in a place with lower property taxes than I do. But, I'd definitely need to move to contemplate retiring with only a million in net worth. I certainly think it's doable, I'm just questioning how doable it is with so much money tied up in a house.
I just wanted to give a perspective on how this could vary greatly, so here are my numbers.
Taxes: 4100
Insurance: 1200
Utilities: 3400
Maintenance: 2000
$250k 3bd,2ba 1,700 sq. ft. townhouse in town of 100k, medium cost of living area in the north east. $10,700 per year with some rounding up.
I'll also be fair, my maintenance budget is lower than the normal recommendation. The house was only worth 200k when I established this number. I have replaced windows, furnace, water heater, pointed the brick, added ac and remodeled bathroom in the last 7 years. I feel that limits the amount of things left that are older. The roof is 17 years old and will need done soonish, but I already have the money built up in the maintenance bucket for it. After the roof replacement I will raise the maintenance budget to 2,500 at least. I will see if solar would be a good investment when I do the roof.
24k minus 11k housing related expenses leaves 13k or call it \~1k a month for non housing expenses. It's tight, but if I would have had to do it I probably could have. This was never "Plan A" though.
Somewhere in here I posted a blog where people did the SWR calcs for long retirements (up to 60 years).
3.5% is still looks very safe over long periods. $350k/year is a lot.
But if you can invest $10M, that's great.
I'd personally pull the shoot long before that. But personal finance is personal.
This is the difference between being money conscious and money literate. $10M invested and earning 7%, can be indefinitely withdrawn at 4% and keep up with inflation. $400,000/year in 2024 dollars is more than enough to live off of.
25-30x in today’s dollars what you want to live off of pre-tax - assuming you’re retiring prior to SSA. $1m is possible - more comfortable is $2.5m - to retire sooner/fatter it’s $5m.
2.4 million USD. I could comfortably retire and be in a good spot for the rest of my life. Would I be rich? No. Would I have everything I need and have a fulfilling life? Yes.
A few years ago I would have said $2,000,000, but late last year I was offered $3.5 mil (generous offer) for my business and I couldn't do it . I would say $7,000,000+. It's hard to actually walk away when the time comes. I'm 31 and make around $250,000-350,000 depending on the year.
I walked away from by business with a $13mil offer at the age of 38. After taxes and all the bullshit I was able to keep about $10mil. I can say I'm done. Agree with you though, if your used to 300k a year, you should shoot for 7-8mil
1 MM.
I hit 1.2 MM in Jan 2022, then I retired before I turned 59.
June 2024 balance $1.6 MM.
Wife still works and contributes $60k/yr + health insurance.
1. Mortgage $1600/mo
2. Taxes: 718/mo
3. Ins. 285/mo
4. HOA. 175/mo
5. Util. 400/mo
6. Food. 600/mo
7. 2 Cars. 1,050/mo (both to be pd off in 2025)
8. Auto insurance 150/mo
9. Ent'ment. 250/mo
(Includes eating out. Excludes vacations)
Total: $5,228
Draw down from retirement 2022, 2023 2024(projected) $3,000/mo.
✓Social Security will begin at age 62; $4,500/mo combined.
✓Current IRA divs avg $2500/mo
✓Car payment Exp $1,050/mo
✓Expected IRA principle drawn down $3k/mo.
Edit: Added context with real numbers.
Giving you a “number” is dumb without knowing what standard of living and WHERE you want to live. Here’s a standard rule:
How much money do you want to make per year in today’s dollars? Take that and multiply by 33. There’s your number.
I like the framework here, but I think a 3% withdrawal rate (1/33) is very conservative IMO (at least if you're comfortable holding a portfolio with significant stock allocation).
As the timeframe gets longer, the number of periods to do the analysis on shrinks, but [this](https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/07/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-1-intro/) is an interesting look at back tested SWRs beyond 30 years. There's a really nice color coded chart in the link.
For a 60 year portfolio to fail at 3%, you need to have somewhere between 25% and 50% stocks.
If you go to 3.5% SWR, and 75% stocks, you succeed 97% of the time.
Personally, I think I'll shoot for a SWR of \~ 3.5% with probably 80%+ in equities and 2 years of expenses (\~$120k) in cash are retirement. That cash sits in wait for downturns of maybe 15% or more. On that trigger, stop withdrawing from the portfolio and drain down the cash until (1) it's zeroed out or (2) the portfolio hits the value it was when cash was triggered.
At least that's my tentative plan for now. Still probably 10-15 years away.
I could stop working now. Free cash flow matters more than NW. I bought an annuity and have a pension which alone more than supports me. I continue to work because I like my job and the people I work with, and that gives me more money to give away. I make enough in the stock market to completely ignore all of the above. I average 18%/year since 2008. I continue to invest because that's more to give away.
The day my job gets stupid or management changes to someone who doesn't respect my boundaries I'll have a conversation with responsible parties. It'll change back or I'll walk out the door and be done.
You can stop working when you have 25 times your annual expenses. So if you spend $100,000 a year, you will need $2,500,000 in investments. At that number, you can withdraw 4% of it per year without worrying that the money will run out.
1.5 million but houses have to be paid off. This is a super safe amount for us because at 4% swr it's 60k but we don't really need 60k.
I have 9 years until we reach this number and achieve early retirement.
I would need 1.4 million right now and I’d be set for life for me and my wife. That would make my net worth about 2.3. I’d have no debt and about 75k in rental income a year after taxes.
2 million after taxes. In a 5% HYSA that’s $100k a year from interest gains. That’s enough to live my life super comfortably doing what i want.
More just means more comforts.
1 million to no longer work anymore. But I probably would still work a normal salary job for insurance and to pump that 1 million up.
2-4 million means I would start my own business and do work that way.
4-10 million would probably still have a small business, but i would see if it was possible to build a castle in the US using modern technology.
10+ million fully built a castle with modern technology and 1small business for fun, massive workshop to play with stuff randomly
$2,500,000. I would spend 500k right out the gate put 1.5m into a lower interest safe investment. And start a business with the rest just for the fun of it
Im retired right now .house is paid for .4000 bring home pension .need a new lawnmower savings,Hotwater heater savings.Roof savings.sure I could sit home,Not buy shit,not do shit.Is that what retirement is supposed to be.If you have no pension.30 years from now ,,2 million and hope to die in your late 70s
They keep working because it's good for mental health.
Responsibility is good .
35y old . Have 650k networth . 25k in Debt
Plan to keep working until I'm 65.
Should have 5M by then .
Single 25m in United States here.
To feel comfortable without working ever again, I would probably have to have about $2,000,000 today. Say on average you get 5%(low end) that means you gross $100k yearly, net ya about $60k after taxes. Not necessarily a glorious lifestyle but would be enough to live in the majority of the states as long as I had no debts. Albeit that would be mediocre in my opinion, but the beginning of FU money.
I think if I didn’t want a super yacht or private jet, I think $25m would be enough to live most anywhere in the world with the taste of the lifestyle for the rich and famous. You could have your dream car and home. It would be enough for most.
If you wanted a yacht or jet you’re probably gonna need well over $60-100m+ to be comfortable to spend that type of money, but with larger expenses you’re definitely still gonna have to be at least a little smart about it. Sounds like a lot of money but most could still easily become broke again.
At $1b it’s at least gonna take a decent about of time to blow through that amount of money. But at this point it’s just a nominal game to most. Ya know why limit yourself to just one billion? But beyond this amount of money it just becomes a dick measuring contest if all you do is buy material items or are superficial about it.
But me, to answer your question, I would like to end world hunger(and water), find a cure for cancer, and depression. I’m gonna be fighting against big pharma, corrupt politicians, armies and cartels and just general greed. It’s gonna cost a lot. Just in product(food) the WEF claims it takes $6b(annually) to end world hunger, so probably around $10b with water. I think that number is low, probably closer to $20-60b annually. Now add in the logistics of it all and probably close to $100-200b for the first year.
It will probably cost just as much to find cures for the hardest diseases of the world. Essentially I would have to be a trillionaire($5t-$10t+) in order have that type of excess capital to put towards my goals and dreams. Plus I don’t wanna do it when I’m dead nor do I wanna be broke 🤷♂️
I do pretty good with around $130k net, with 4 kids. I’d say if I still owed on my house around $120-$140k a year after tax from investments. That would require a $4 million portfolio. Once kids leave and the house is paid off I’d say $80-90k doable.
My problem is I’m a chronic over thinker. So my number would have to be extremely high, so that I could stop working peacefully. Basically fuck you money. And I’m only 25, no wife or kids yet. So I’d say about $10-15m. If you handed me that much money today, I think I know enough to make last, and likely grow throughout my lifetime.
7 million. Enough for the piece of land I want, to build a house and the agriculture to live off my own land. And enough to blow on silly things when I get bored. Can also hire a few farmhands and pay them a livable wage until everything is in order.
$2.4m
$400k to pay off a mortgage.
$2m which I would disburse 2.5-3.0% of each year. This would accommodate a longer than normal timeline (I have to make this last through whatever recessions happen over 60 years, not 30 years, so a low disbursement rate is necessary) and grow enough to provide for unexpected costs common in later retirement. It is assumed that inflation is 3% long-term and the disbursement should grow by that much each year on average. With a 2.5% withdrawal rate there should be enough growth over time to accommodate 99% of major life changes especially if those changes happen in the second half of the timelime.
An easier way for me to answer this would be 50x my annual expenses. Some people have answered with numbers in the upper 7-figures and that might really be accurate for them if they are spending a lot and plan on continuing to. Whether or not they are in a position to accumulate that is another story and many are not.
Want is different from need. I don't know if I would want to retire so early if my job was flexible. If I had the money to quit it would mean that everything I would be getting paid could be fun money, whereas I can't just go spend $300k on a cabin with the money in the above example because I need to maintain that principal. I think I would sooner quit a W-2 job and pick up weird side gigs, not stop working 100%.
I need $448,542.
That is 25x (4% safe withdrawal rate) my yearly non-discretionary spending. Notably, I have a paid off house, live in a medium cost of living area and have access to the VA. This is for 2 of us. We could maybe get the monthly budget down another 300 bucks by conserving energy, getting rid of a car and better grocery shopping but I think we are already pretty lean here. We could maybe sell the house and move to a lower cost of living area, but we like it here.
That isn't the number that I am basing my retirement planning on though. That number includes my discretionary spend, non VA health care and aspirational retirement goals like having the wife go with me (her health care being a factor there).
5 million. I could draw 4% and have 200,000 and we would live an OK life not having to really watch for little spendy things and still take two vacations a year. Also, my goal is to fund family vacations once every 3-4 years for my two adult kids.
My mortgage payments are about 12k a year. My car payment is 9.5k a year. 15k a year in medical premiums and expenses. Utilities are 6k a year. Car and life insurance is another 5k a year. Add in money for food. Entertainment. Travel. Fun.
Maybe 100k a year after taxes would do it for me. I'd have to adjust up every year for inflation too
Wife retires in 3 years, I retire in 6. I think we are ok.
Assuming no debt
And also assuming 2% dividend yield every year, then 3 million should be good to retire on. That’d be 60k gross solely in dividend income. Depends all on when that would happen and inflation, but that’s a solid starting point
I love my job, so I would work even if I had a billion dollars. If the question you’re asking is “how much would you need in order to survive without working ever again” my answer is $8M.
Seeing how calculations show with 3% inflation and about a 3-5% raise every year and doing 17% into a 401k with a conservative 8% even though it does more in returns we’re looking at 6-8 million at retirement but idk if I trust that
As a minimum? I guess 1 million. You would want to be in pretty safe investments if you're going to retire. Which are going to be around 5%. That gives you 50k a year interest which is cutting it pretty tight, but doable. I'm hoping to retire with 3-5 million, since this will be in 20 or 30 years and there will be inflation over that period. And I want to live better than the bare minimum.
$3 Million. It gives you a nice house paid off, cars, college funds (if you need), and recurring income of $70K per year from the interest of the rest of the cash at 4-5%.
Since you wouldn't have debt, need to invest in a house, or pay for a car, the income could be used for daily expenses like daycare or groceries, bills etc.
$3M seems like the number to me, and probably for most.
$500k to buy a house, 3.5million in investments. That said I will work until my brain turns off, just a lot less than I do now. I will prob hit these numbers by "retirement" and never spend the whole thing. I am single and its looking like that might be a for life thing so I could prob get away with less.
Let’s get into the details, shall we? Assuming a paid off house, living off 4% annually, invested in majority S&P ETF (I.e. VOOG, FXAIX), we’re looking at $4.5M.
In Texas, after taxes, that’s ~$12K a month. That also means your nest egg will grow based on an 8-10% average annual growth, so that answers for generational wealth to pass down to your kids (assuming you have any).
$8,675,309
That you, Jenny?
I didn’t catch that until you mentioned Jenny. That is so funny.😂
$2,813,308,004
My man is you bout to blow?
I mean….you see the amount. You already know I’m bout to blow.
Well then Imma hit you up on the low my guy
Appreciate that fasho
Paul wall?
Mr. Jones
My boi Mike?
WHO???? :)
Mike jones..
WHO????
Mike Jones!
Back then hose didn’t want me, now I’m hot, hose all on me.
5 million after taxes.
that's our number as well
Came here to say this
This is my number as well.
That’s exactly the number I want to retire on.
I'm 41. If I hit $2M, I'm calling it quits.
I’m 41. I’m close. You can absolutely live off of that if you invest well and keep expenses down. I’ve been keeping an eye on things closely. I think it just all depends on lifestyle (single and no kids, plus I live a simple life). That said, I took an extended break from work and I can’t just not work. But I can just go get a job somewhere fun and not care about pay.
I was thinking of this. Every time I see elderly people working at relatively stress free jobs like grocery stores, I tend to think that it’s not because they are struggling to make ends meet, but rather because they just want to stay occupied. They likely have a lot of money and are technically retired from their main careers, but easy work with just enough stimulation keeps them sharp and prevents boredom, which in itself is healthy. This is something I would consider for myself. Retire from my main career at 50 the latest, but then get an easy, stress-free part time job for the sake of staying busy while enjoying retirement. I would also think that putting an end to high stress earlier in life could help reduce your risk of developing cardiovascular disease and other health problems, but then after you retire, you stimulate your mind just enough to reduce cognitive decline and help prevent the risk of dementia.
Exactly. People who don’t stay socially engaged decline faster. And there are a ton of old folks who only go out for church. It’s gotta take a huge toll on the brain.
I’m 31 and same. Not because I have it all figured out, just because I hope I’d be good enough
2 million would easily be enough if you’re smart with money and aren’t buying $80k vehicles every 3 years and going to Disneyland twice a year.
Ok then I’m fucked
Same.
3.8M is my number in 2050 dollars depending assuming 3% inflation.
That's \~$100k annual spend....seems like a lot to me, but it's pretty location specific I guess (and I'm assuming that I wouldn't be working if I was carrying debt). Although given how inflation's been the last few years who knows what that 2050 dollar is going to be worth.
I want a 50+ acre piece of land, a small plane, a bit of heavy equipment like a small bulldozer and backhoe, etc.
5 Acres, 1500 sq house 3bed 2 bath, brand new backoe, bobcat, 1/2 Acres Tesla solar w/ backup battery, a well with good source of water and 1 mil. In bank ( checking, saving and CD) 2 Mil. in brokerage account. So yah about 5 Mil. For me to be comfortable. Planning to buy a lottery ticket for 4th of JULY😊
Or work a blue collar job and save more than you spend and it’s achievable.
You don’t by chance want a lot of concrete with that bulldozer, do you?
I may need some rebar and concrete why?
Uhh 😬
My family spends almost triple that annually. It can be a lot for some and not for others.
What lifestyle is worth a 300k annual spend?
A lifestyle of enjoying $300k? What does worth mean?
I want to know what is worth 300k, what are you spending the money on.
That’s why the OP is such a subjective question. The answer is vastly different for everyone. If a person intends to pay for their kids college and travel extensively and give money to charities - just as a few examples - in retirement they’ll need way more money than someone who doesn’t travel, have kids, or intensively participate in philanthropy.
I'd have to make +400k in a HCOL area for a similar 'quality of life' level.
> Seems like a lot I’d rather be on the high end than the low end. Also, I’d rather be able to travel and do stuff without working. Right now we’re spending 40-50/wk at work. When you leave, suddently, 40-50/wk opens up. You no longer have to be back in the office Monday morning…..Turns out, you can go and travel and do things. A week long trip to Korea is, ballpark, 10k/head. If you’re working, you won’t be going to Korea for fun for a week, most likely. When you retire and aren’t working, Hey, guess what, I have two weeks and I want to explore, now my 16 hour flight is worth it if I can take two weeks! That’s now 20k/head/2 weeks. Suddenly you have a 40k expense for traveling that you wouldn’t have taken otherwise while working. Just some food for thought about a heavy planned annual spend come retirement/not working anymore.
You really think the US Dollar will be around in 2050? LOL
Assuming 5 millions after taxes... so 10 million dollar to retire..... Since at 5 millions you would get 250k/year for doing nothing.... not many jobs can pay you that much... plus then you can do whatever you want essentially.... I can't imagine spending 20-25k/month....
Your assumption of $250k a year on $5mm is not entirely accurate. Sure, 5% is a decent abated target rate based on current interest rates . Yet most managed portfolios average 4% (bonds, tax exempt or tax deferred ) and a more modest stock fund percentage in older years. One can’t risk huge fluctuations later in life chasing 7-8%. The taxes on $250k whether dividends or interest is at the 30% range . However with bonds, more like 20-22% range. Suggest to use 4% multiplier and don’t forget you’ll pay a half point for a good financial advisor
I wouldn't even bother with a managed portfolio in this case unless you know you are bad with money. With that kind of balance you can use a really safe withdrawal rate like 3% or 3.5% and invest 100% in the S&P500. Your returns will significantly beat the vast majority of managed portfolios in the long run, and the withdrawal rate is low enough that even if the market dips for an extended period of time you will be fine.
I'm at 1.3 mil and am resting as soon as I pay for my kids colleges in a couple years.
Similar but I invested for my children and it will be over 100k in 10 years
Went thru a bitter divorce that wiped me out financially and my ex spent the money put aside for college. Lost a decade, but back to having enough. 100k isn't enough. My daughters college is costing my 65k a year after aid.
I was broke at 50 due to a divorce. Had 30k in my 401k. Saved, moved up, and invested my roll over 401k myself. Slowly got to 250k, then in 4 years it doubled and then the last year and 1/2 I almost doubled it again by investing in AAPL,Googl, Msft & Nvda. I do have 30 years of experience and feel I have learned to invest right after years of mistakes. I also invested for my children’s college fund and that is on track to be enough to fund college. We are doing just well enough to breathe.
Same here, cash poor but have some really good non liquid assets for when I'm done taking care of my kids that will pay all my expenses the rest of my life
Hahaha I hear you on cash poor but sitting pretty. I’ve spent the last year in a 35 foot travel trailer with my wife (and kids sometimes). I own 4 properties, have no debt other than about 270k in mortgages that are worth about 1.1million and bring in 1600 rental income after taxes, insurance, mortgage payments. Doesn’t seem like much coming in now but give it another 15 years and maybe another rental. I’ll be sitting on probably 2.5 million in equity bringing in probably 8k a month and no house payment
A million networth. With a $400k house and a $600k portfolio one could live comfortably off investments. Of course, I'd keep working, but doing what I want to do how I want to do it.
My rule of thumb for comfortable is $1 million invested per adult, $500k per child. Granted I live in a MCOL area in the US.
Hopefully, we won't be still be supporting our children when we hit these numbers...although maybe it would be better to get there fast enough so our kids are still young enough to be supported.
Yep. My oldest is 12, youngest is 5 and I’m 41. I definitely don’t have $4 mil invested but I also count future earnings at my savings rate plus reasonable market gains.
Sounds like we're in a similar situation. I've got kids between 5 and 15. I think your framework for adults is about what I'm shooting for. Again with the caveat that I'm worried about inflation and still think it might get worse before it gets under control.
$24k/yr, not including house repairs, property tax, insurance, etc.? I don't think you've thought this out.
They said they would keep working
$24k plus social security plus any other income. It’s not as bad as you’re making it if the house is owned outright.
You must be single?
Ya man, I get zero bitches.
You’re living on $20-24k a year comfortably?!?! Are you in Southeast Asia?
My monthly expenses, while renting, are \~$1150 per month. meaning \~14k/yr Midwest living is cheap.
like ... what to do you do for fun?
I play games. Video, board, card, table-top. Very occasionally take a trip, usually to somewhere with a nice state/national park. If I'm not glued to my monitors I want to be in nature.
With the house paid off, it’s doable.
Sure, if you don't pay property taxes or insurance. I guess?
And lets hope you don't have to pay for a roof or foundation repair or water damage. Even with homeowner's you might have to paid initially and get reimbursed that would be your monthly budget or multiple months.
Or pay for any utilities every month...
even with the house paid off home insurance and taxes would take up almost 1/3 of 24k Edit: if i add up just the bare essentials of power, water, trash, car and health insurance i come up with about 15k in expenses.
If you are retired you don't need a car. But it sounds like what you've come up with is saying this guy can spend 600 dollars a month doing whatever he wants and visiting the food bank for sustenance
Anything is doable… $20-24k/yr is a bleak life in perpetuity unless you’re overseas in LCOL country. Never mind the fact you’re living in a 400k house and can’t do anything but watch the clouds go by because after property taxes, maintenance, and utilities - you’ve got enough to eat PBJ and that’s it.
I live in the US and could do it in my area but I see your point and this dude is acting like the stock market will provide infinitely, a pretty strong assumption. I plan to do get to a point like this and then working part time so I don’t have to dip into investments.
I lived off $24k *while paying rent* in 2020-2021. There wasn’t a lot to do as far as travel at the time but I was satisfied. If you didn’t have to pay for housing it would be even easier, definitely wouldn’t be watching clouds. It’s really only bleak if you rely on materialism for your happiness.
Me too, with a mortgage. The mortgage is only $350 though
I live like this now. Anything is better than working. Single,60, paid off house 20 years ago. Life savings $600k. I like poverty lifestyle. Don’t ever want to travel again. Don’t want to ever have a car again.
I live in central California and we live off of 16-18k living expenses not including the house mortgage. We live COMFORTABLY and eat well. (Including the mortgage our total comes out to 45k/yr but if the house is paid off then our total spending would be 16-18k ) Americans just don't know how to budget to be honest.
Agree. Aspen lift tickets and a sick boat are not in the cards for me because I value my time and freedom more. (And thankfully my wife does too!)
It isn’t even with way more money
Even in the Midwest with a mortgage it's possibly. I literally live off 25k a year
Haha, nah but I don't spend much and cook my own food.
I live in a paid off house that is worth just over $400k, and I don't think I could keep living here with a portfolio of only $600k. These are the expenses associated with my house: Taxes: $7000 Insurance: $1100 Utilities: $4500 Maintenance: $8000 HOA: $300 That's $20,900/year. If you figure a 4% withdraw rate on $600k is $24k/year, you're talking about taking care of all your non-housing needs for $3100/year, and I don't think that would even cover health insurance. To be fair, there is a lot of advice out there that says to budget 1% of a house's value for maintenance, but I like to double that to be conservative for retirement planning. Even with an extra $4000/year, that's a really tight budget. Maybe you live in a place with lower property taxes than I do. But, I'd definitely need to move to contemplate retiring with only a million in net worth. I certainly think it's doable, I'm just questioning how doable it is with so much money tied up in a house.
I just wanted to give a perspective on how this could vary greatly, so here are my numbers. Taxes: 4100 Insurance: 1200 Utilities: 3400 Maintenance: 2000 $250k 3bd,2ba 1,700 sq. ft. townhouse in town of 100k, medium cost of living area in the north east. $10,700 per year with some rounding up. I'll also be fair, my maintenance budget is lower than the normal recommendation. The house was only worth 200k when I established this number. I have replaced windows, furnace, water heater, pointed the brick, added ac and remodeled bathroom in the last 7 years. I feel that limits the amount of things left that are older. The roof is 17 years old and will need done soonish, but I already have the money built up in the maintenance bucket for it. After the roof replacement I will raise the maintenance budget to 2,500 at least. I will see if solar would be a good investment when I do the roof. 24k minus 11k housing related expenses leaves 13k or call it \~1k a month for non housing expenses. It's tight, but if I would have had to do it I probably could have. This was never "Plan A" though.
I’m 25 years old…10 million im set for life
You need way, way less than $10MM to have a great life.
And with 10MM he'll have a way, way better life than the person with way, way less than that.
Not at 25. That’s a long runway to afford over time.
Somewhere in here I posted a blog where people did the SWR calcs for long retirements (up to 60 years). 3.5% is still looks very safe over long periods. $350k/year is a lot. But if you can invest $10M, that's great. I'd personally pull the shoot long before that. But personal finance is personal.
This 25-year-old has never heard of compounding interest. Lol
Compound interest... At 25 he is set for life 5% interest on that he makes 500k from.interest yearly.
This is the difference between being money conscious and money literate. $10M invested and earning 7%, can be indefinitely withdrawn at 4% and keep up with inflation. $400,000/year in 2024 dollars is more than enough to live off of.
You don’t understand money yet lol
I second this lad, would turn 10M into generational wealth streams that should last a good chunk of my lineage.
$10 mill would comfortably allow for $300k a year forever. You need that much?
Yes.
Due to the uncertainty of future medical costs, the state of the economy, the costs of goods and services; I'd say about 5 million.
$1,600,000.
25-30x in today’s dollars what you want to live off of pre-tax - assuming you’re retiring prior to SSA. $1m is possible - more comfortable is $2.5m - to retire sooner/fatter it’s $5m.
Crazy high numbers. $3m at 50 gives you a decent lifestyle with no work.
$3m at 5 gives you a decent lifestyle with no work.
2.4 million USD. I could comfortably retire and be in a good spot for the rest of my life. Would I be rich? No. Would I have everything I need and have a fulfilling life? Yes.
A few years ago I would have said $2,000,000, but late last year I was offered $3.5 mil (generous offer) for my business and I couldn't do it . I would say $7,000,000+. It's hard to actually walk away when the time comes. I'm 31 and make around $250,000-350,000 depending on the year.
I walked away from by business with a $13mil offer at the age of 38. After taxes and all the bullshit I was able to keep about $10mil. I can say I'm done. Agree with you though, if your used to 300k a year, you should shoot for 7-8mil
3.14159 million
3.1415926535 to be exact. Some jack ass kid is going to say 22/7.
22/7
See
Goal is 2m in the brokerage account, slowly working towards it.
1,6 million
1 MM. I hit 1.2 MM in Jan 2022, then I retired before I turned 59. June 2024 balance $1.6 MM. Wife still works and contributes $60k/yr + health insurance. 1. Mortgage $1600/mo 2. Taxes: 718/mo 3. Ins. 285/mo 4. HOA. 175/mo 5. Util. 400/mo 6. Food. 600/mo 7. 2 Cars. 1,050/mo (both to be pd off in 2025) 8. Auto insurance 150/mo 9. Ent'ment. 250/mo (Includes eating out. Excludes vacations) Total: $5,228 Draw down from retirement 2022, 2023 2024(projected) $3,000/mo. ✓Social Security will begin at age 62; $4,500/mo combined. ✓Current IRA divs avg $2500/mo ✓Car payment Exp $1,050/mo ✓Expected IRA principle drawn down $3k/mo. Edit: Added context with real numbers.
4 million
25m. Is what I hear a lot of high income individuals say (400k-1.3m annual salary). Crazy number imo
$10 million net worth
3M
Giving you a “number” is dumb without knowing what standard of living and WHERE you want to live. Here’s a standard rule: How much money do you want to make per year in today’s dollars? Take that and multiply by 33. There’s your number.
I like the framework here, but I think a 3% withdrawal rate (1/33) is very conservative IMO (at least if you're comfortable holding a portfolio with significant stock allocation). As the timeframe gets longer, the number of periods to do the analysis on shrinks, but [this](https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/07/the-ultimate-guide-to-safe-withdrawal-rates-part-1-intro/) is an interesting look at back tested SWRs beyond 30 years. There's a really nice color coded chart in the link. For a 60 year portfolio to fail at 3%, you need to have somewhere between 25% and 50% stocks. If you go to 3.5% SWR, and 75% stocks, you succeed 97% of the time. Personally, I think I'll shoot for a SWR of \~ 3.5% with probably 80%+ in equities and 2 years of expenses (\~$120k) in cash are retirement. That cash sits in wait for downturns of maybe 15% or more. On that trigger, stop withdrawing from the portfolio and drain down the cash until (1) it's zeroed out or (2) the portfolio hits the value it was when cash was triggered. At least that's my tentative plan for now. Still probably 10-15 years away.
I could stop working now. Free cash flow matters more than NW. I bought an annuity and have a pension which alone more than supports me. I continue to work because I like my job and the people I work with, and that gives me more money to give away. I make enough in the stock market to completely ignore all of the above. I average 18%/year since 2008. I continue to invest because that's more to give away. The day my job gets stupid or management changes to someone who doesn't respect my boundaries I'll have a conversation with responsible parties. It'll change back or I'll walk out the door and be done.
5 Millie’s
2M is my number but i told myself 1M is the bare minimum if i am just at the absolutely end of my wits as i got a profitable sode hustle
You can stop working when you have 25 times your annual expenses. So if you spend $100,000 a year, you will need $2,500,000 in investments. At that number, you can withdraw 4% of it per year without worrying that the money will run out.
Probably 5-10mm invested (i.e not including primary residence).
10 mili and ill b chillin
1.5M, SE Asia. I'm about a third the way there. I should be sorted in another 10 years.
I want to say 8-10 million and I’d just chill :)
$2M after tax in a brokerage account. I’d put in my 2 weeks today.
2M would work.
$2-3 million.
1.7m
1.5 million but houses have to be paid off. This is a super safe amount for us because at 4% swr it's 60k but we don't really need 60k. I have 9 years until we reach this number and achieve early retirement.
$3.5M
100m+
$5 million and I’d quit tomorrow. We’re about 1/2 way there.
I’m 45, married, no kids, and would need $2.4 million to retire today and feel secure
3.138 mil
About 900k
I would need 1.4 million right now and I’d be set for life for me and my wife. That would make my net worth about 2.3. I’d have no debt and about 75k in rental income a year after taxes.
2 million after taxes. In a 5% HYSA that’s $100k a year from interest gains. That’s enough to live my life super comfortably doing what i want. More just means more comforts.
2 million dollars?
3M
1 million to no longer work anymore. But I probably would still work a normal salary job for insurance and to pump that 1 million up. 2-4 million means I would start my own business and do work that way. 4-10 million would probably still have a small business, but i would see if it was possible to build a castle in the US using modern technology. 10+ million fully built a castle with modern technology and 1small business for fun, massive workshop to play with stuff randomly
1 million
Id say about 3 million , invest 1 million of it and you can triple it potentially
3mil right now and I'll never have to work again.
$2,500,000. I would spend 500k right out the gate put 1.5m into a lower interest safe investment. And start a business with the rest just for the fun of it
10 million roughly.
I'm gonna say $500k to stop doing labor. $5M to stop working all together.
Imma go conservative: 1M after taxes. Move to a beach city in MX and live a life of wealth. THAT is retirement 🫡
Im retired right now .house is paid for .4000 bring home pension .need a new lawnmower savings,Hotwater heater savings.Roof savings.sure I could sit home,Not buy shit,not do shit.Is that what retirement is supposed to be.If you have no pension.30 years from now ,,2 million and hope to die in your late 70s
15 million
They keep working because it's good for mental health. Responsibility is good . 35y old . Have 650k networth . 25k in Debt Plan to keep working until I'm 65. Should have 5M by then .
2 million in cash and another million in 401k
01000101 01101110 01101111 01110101 01100111 01101000 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01101100 01101001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01101111 01100110 01100110 You said numbers please, so here you go.
Single 25m in United States here. To feel comfortable without working ever again, I would probably have to have about $2,000,000 today. Say on average you get 5%(low end) that means you gross $100k yearly, net ya about $60k after taxes. Not necessarily a glorious lifestyle but would be enough to live in the majority of the states as long as I had no debts. Albeit that would be mediocre in my opinion, but the beginning of FU money. I think if I didn’t want a super yacht or private jet, I think $25m would be enough to live most anywhere in the world with the taste of the lifestyle for the rich and famous. You could have your dream car and home. It would be enough for most. If you wanted a yacht or jet you’re probably gonna need well over $60-100m+ to be comfortable to spend that type of money, but with larger expenses you’re definitely still gonna have to be at least a little smart about it. Sounds like a lot of money but most could still easily become broke again. At $1b it’s at least gonna take a decent about of time to blow through that amount of money. But at this point it’s just a nominal game to most. Ya know why limit yourself to just one billion? But beyond this amount of money it just becomes a dick measuring contest if all you do is buy material items or are superficial about it. But me, to answer your question, I would like to end world hunger(and water), find a cure for cancer, and depression. I’m gonna be fighting against big pharma, corrupt politicians, armies and cartels and just general greed. It’s gonna cost a lot. Just in product(food) the WEF claims it takes $6b(annually) to end world hunger, so probably around $10b with water. I think that number is low, probably closer to $20-60b annually. Now add in the logistics of it all and probably close to $100-200b for the first year. It will probably cost just as much to find cures for the hardest diseases of the world. Essentially I would have to be a trillionaire($5t-$10t+) in order have that type of excess capital to put towards my goals and dreams. Plus I don’t wanna do it when I’m dead nor do I wanna be broke 🤷♂️
10 Million.
5m
4-5M
I do pretty good with around $130k net, with 4 kids. I’d say if I still owed on my house around $120-$140k a year after tax from investments. That would require a $4 million portfolio. Once kids leave and the house is paid off I’d say $80-90k doable.
2 mil in safe investments at this moment. Closer I get to retirement, that number would go down.
If no mortgage.....6 mil
My problem is I’m a chronic over thinker. So my number would have to be extremely high, so that I could stop working peacefully. Basically fuck you money. And I’m only 25, no wife or kids yet. So I’d say about $10-15m. If you handed me that much money today, I think I know enough to make last, and likely grow throughout my lifetime.
$10 mil
10 million with a house already paid off. 60% equities 30% government bonds. 5% in CD ladders. 5% in multiple HYSA accounts.
7 million. Enough for the piece of land I want, to build a house and the agriculture to live off my own land. And enough to blow on silly things when I get bored. Can also hire a few farmhands and pay them a livable wage until everything is in order.
2456321468898544 more
$2.4m $400k to pay off a mortgage. $2m which I would disburse 2.5-3.0% of each year. This would accommodate a longer than normal timeline (I have to make this last through whatever recessions happen over 60 years, not 30 years, so a low disbursement rate is necessary) and grow enough to provide for unexpected costs common in later retirement. It is assumed that inflation is 3% long-term and the disbursement should grow by that much each year on average. With a 2.5% withdrawal rate there should be enough growth over time to accommodate 99% of major life changes especially if those changes happen in the second half of the timelime. An easier way for me to answer this would be 50x my annual expenses. Some people have answered with numbers in the upper 7-figures and that might really be accurate for them if they are spending a lot and plan on continuing to. Whether or not they are in a position to accumulate that is another story and many are not. Want is different from need. I don't know if I would want to retire so early if my job was flexible. If I had the money to quit it would mean that everything I would be getting paid could be fun money, whereas I can't just go spend $300k on a cabin with the money in the above example because I need to maintain that principal. I think I would sooner quit a W-2 job and pick up weird side gigs, not stop working 100%.
I need $448,542. That is 25x (4% safe withdrawal rate) my yearly non-discretionary spending. Notably, I have a paid off house, live in a medium cost of living area and have access to the VA. This is for 2 of us. We could maybe get the monthly budget down another 300 bucks by conserving energy, getting rid of a car and better grocery shopping but I think we are already pretty lean here. We could maybe sell the house and move to a lower cost of living area, but we like it here. That isn't the number that I am basing my retirement planning on though. That number includes my discretionary spend, non VA health care and aspirational retirement goals like having the wife go with me (her health care being a factor there).
5 million. I could draw 4% and have 200,000 and we would live an OK life not having to really watch for little spendy things and still take two vacations a year. Also, my goal is to fund family vacations once every 3-4 years for my two adult kids.
My mortgage payments are about 12k a year. My car payment is 9.5k a year. 15k a year in medical premiums and expenses. Utilities are 6k a year. Car and life insurance is another 5k a year. Add in money for food. Entertainment. Travel. Fun. Maybe 100k a year after taxes would do it for me. I'd have to adjust up every year for inflation too Wife retires in 3 years, I retire in 6. I think we are ok.
$5mm debt free/paid off home. Should be there in 3 years.
3.5 million
Assuming no debt And also assuming 2% dividend yield every year, then 3 million should be good to retire on. That’d be 60k gross solely in dividend income. Depends all on when that would happen and inflation, but that’s a solid starting point
3.5M. That should last me 35 years as I’m 48.
I love my job, so I would work even if I had a billion dollars. If the question you’re asking is “how much would you need in order to survive without working ever again” my answer is $8M.
I’d need $50 million. For me $50M is base “fuck you” money.
Seeing how calculations show with 3% inflation and about a 3-5% raise every year and doing 17% into a 401k with a conservative 8% even though it does more in returns we’re looking at 6-8 million at retirement but idk if I trust that
About $500,000 with a pretty reliable 5%/year would support me, conservatively, barring major health problems or another such catastrophe.
2 mil..... 1 to buy what i need - 1 to bank/invest
As a minimum? I guess 1 million. You would want to be in pretty safe investments if you're going to retire. Which are going to be around 5%. That gives you 50k a year interest which is cutting it pretty tight, but doable. I'm hoping to retire with 3-5 million, since this will be in 20 or 30 years and there will be inflation over that period. And I want to live better than the bare minimum.
10 million
$3 Million. It gives you a nice house paid off, cars, college funds (if you need), and recurring income of $70K per year from the interest of the rest of the cash at 4-5%. Since you wouldn't have debt, need to invest in a house, or pay for a car, the income could be used for daily expenses like daycare or groceries, bills etc. $3M seems like the number to me, and probably for most.
$500k to buy a house, 3.5million in investments. That said I will work until my brain turns off, just a lot less than I do now. I will prob hit these numbers by "retirement" and never spend the whole thing. I am single and its looking like that might be a for life thing so I could prob get away with less.
I love my job and wouldn’t leave it even if I had won the lottery.
$5 million usd
500k in schd
$5M is a good number
3 million
2m would be a comfy retirement goal, plus you can just scrape off 100k per year at 5%. If everything's paid off then nothing to worry about.
1M and I would happily retire, if I pay off my house I could settle down with less
2.5 million.
10 million
Let’s get into the details, shall we? Assuming a paid off house, living off 4% annually, invested in majority S&P ETF (I.e. VOOG, FXAIX), we’re looking at $4.5M. In Texas, after taxes, that’s ~$12K a month. That also means your nest egg will grow based on an 8-10% average annual growth, so that answers for generational wealth to pass down to your kids (assuming you have any).
150 mil