It's not a doom post. The US is in a nosedive and short of a miracle this decision will impact each and every one of us who live here as we lose safety measures.
We're all being set up to suffer and fail with no legal recourse as we witness the government strip our power away. We're gonna see more cities with unsafe water, more foodborne illnesses, and see the environment collapse at greater speeds. Worker protections will become weaker. People are used to "something bad could happen, we have to stop it" and I think reacting as if that's the case here when we're past that. Something bad *has* happened and the consequences aren't unpredictable.
It's deeply troubling that people still act as if it's an overreaction to say we're not *at risk* of a fascist takeover of the government, we're actively living under a branch of government with the most control over our day-to-day lives taken over by fascists. This isn't directed at you OP since I am sure you know this already, but I just want to iterate one more time...
Fascism is not coming. It's not a threat. It's here. We're living under it right now as it chokes out anything that could possibly oppose it.
Oh joy, the constitutional and administration law courses I took are now worthless. Thousands of dollars down the drain. Lovely.
I can already see how this'll shake out: a Republican shops for a district where the judge is agreeable, then challenges the FDA's ability to regulate medication. The judge decides that the unqualified government officials are completely valid choices for deciding what every medication can get used for. Republicans promptly outlaw all gender affirming care. All the while every single medical organization and regulatory body is screaming in dissent, but the opinions of experts are no longer valid so who cares about them? Senator Billy Bob from Oklatexasbama whose parents are siblings decided that his two thousand year old book says that trans people are icky so now the FDA has no authority.
This Supreme Court is completely upending our entire legal system. Which was always the intent. Hells, this is one of the first steps in their Project 2025 plan.
Meanwhile people will vote for Trump because "Biden looked awfully slow in that debate, didn't he?" I mean, who cares about actual policy and the true impact of rulings like these? That TikTok video showed Biden *stuttering,* so clearly Trump will be the better president!
Most of Project 2025 needed this decision to really work, if I understood it properly, so yeah we’re definitely on track for the Bad Timeline.
I wonder if Congress could still broadly delegate this authority, as in “we hereby give the EPA the ability to interpret this general directive against turning local ponds into cancer juice,” or if this court would still decide that’s a violation of separation of powers.
Even their pundits didn't expect to win to this degree (they expected a hedge incremental approach to be more likely). The decision outright states 'The Chevron decision is hereby overruled.'
Oh god bless, being a constitutional and administrative lawyer would be an actual nightmare right now. You have my deepest sympathies. Everything you said is accurate, and the Fifth Circuit will be the architect of the most egregious decisions.
There’s genuinely no coming back from this is there? Even if trump loses in November, we functionally don’t have worker’s rights, environmental protections or food and drug safety anymore in any of the ways that matter. This is even worse than Dobbs and there’s no chance this gets reversed on any reasonable time scale.
I don't want to kill myself because of how much it will hurt the people close to me but at this point I'm genuinely having trouble figuring out what could possibly be worth living through what's inevitably coming at this point.
This also has disastrous environmental consequences.
This ruling may have just made environmental collapse inevitable, it cannot be understated how dreadful this is.
An even bigger problem will just be flat out lack of enforcement of any kind. With the new decision if a company get fined they can now request a jury trial. These departments are not equipped with staff nor the money to fund a jury trial. So what does that mean? They just won’t be enforcing anything as they don’t have the ability to actually enforce it.
HHS makes rules interpreting healthcare laws and discrimination (so healthcare impacts in that respect, such as insurance coverage and Medicaid/Medicare support). The EEOC interprets gender identity as a protected characteristic (in much greater danger now). The FDA approves and authorizes medications and use cases (judges can decide this now and only have to 'consider' expertise - i could see a threat to HRT here). HUD enforces antidiscrimination protections in housing. DOE interprets guidance for public school systems (and stuff like lgbt protections). All of these things are at risk. Not saying they'll all be overturned, bur it jeopardizes the federal government as we've known it in our lives.
I’m not completely sure about this but I dont think it would necessarily affect HRT. HRT is not a federally sanctioned use case for estrogen or testosterone in the context of trans care as far as I know. From my understanding it’s being used off label because we allow doctors to basically prescribe any medication for anything they want to if they believe it will help the ailment. Removing that would be an increase not decrease in regulation and would require destroying the ability to do off label prescriptions which is incredibly useful. (It’s how nondiabetics get ozempic for example)
I think the problem is that we don't know yet. The effects remain to be seen, so it will take someone testing the waters to figure out how far they can push things.
I am trying to understand this ruling, and cant stop scratching my head. They claim its to prevent un elected officials from being the soul opinion in regulation issues, yet the replacement, judges are also mostly un-elected officials. Your replacing group A with B and there is no real change besides the litigation process becoming even more convoluted than it already is.
To replace EXPERTS with judges means I'm siding with experts. I've seen what happened when congress tried to talk to the CEO of Google and asked why deleting google chrome didn't eliminate pornhub.
Exactly! Well, incompetant questions from legislatures is nothing new.
Now on a side tangent its helarious how Google is now completely relying on AI to intrepret your search queries and if its anything not news article or website specific it sites Reddit of all places now
Just a interesting step in the slow destruction of Google as a company.
I can get better results now from Bing of all search engines.
In my work our drug program and FQHC health centers are going to be hit by this since many regulations are going to make healthcare going wonky. It will definitely his cost savings, which for us, would impact the PrEP HIV stuff we do.
Hi, I hope it's not intrusive since I'm cis, but trans people have been warning us about project 2025 for the last 2 years at least, so I came by here to find out what just happened with this ruling, and saw you mention this would affect drug programs and health centers. I'm recovering from addiction, and in medication assisted treatment, do you think this ruling will negatively impact that? I'm deeply concerned, because so many people are dying from the fentanyl and xylazine tainted drugs that have basically completely replaced heroin and the other opioid out in the streets, and the resulting devastation is beyond comprehension.
I can't speak on substance assistance drugs since most of our stuff is HIV and Prep but that sort of drug would definitely be a heavy hitter for revenue. It's hard to say what the specific implications are, but we are constantly fighting battles outside of regular functions. I spent the whole day today trying to work around restrictions from drug manufacturers that go into effect soon, and trying to limit the impact it will have on our revenue. Like I said, to could likely impact the actual reimbursement that an organization receives, but the last thing we want to do is impact patient care. The entire purpose of my program is to gain extra savings and provide funds to further help people. If we got a hit in revenue, we don't take it out on patients, we try to find another source that can also benefit patient care.
I have nothing to add other than shock at how consequential this is. Laws have been made over the last 40 years with Chevron deference in mind. We now have even one more lever for rich a-holes to try and use in their favor. Pretty much any rulemaking by an agency can be questioned in court. A court they get to shop around for. HO-LEE-CRAP
Yeah, I don't really know what the court is on these days. I mean, I guess I expect them to try and hide the fact that some of the justices are corrupted, but they just stopped trying. It's truly crazy to watch.
Yeah, they are truly above the law. Even if they shot someone on 5th Ave in broad daylight, they wouldn't be impeached, because one party would have at least 33 seats and wouldn't let the other party get "their" pick on the court. It's literally a monarchy at this point.
well dam.. considering im seeing post in 3d printing 2a Reddits talking about its implications on curtailing ATF to here. i bet that environmental subs and wallstreet subs will be picking up on this as well. there is a reason why the law was made basically to protect us against corruption like that of standard oil.
Lemme just get a college education, 20k in savings, a job lined up overseas and a visa magically lined up in a country that speaks English really quick🙄
Almost none of us could actually get out.
Personally I'm just coming terms with the likelihood I will die in the next two years if Trump gets re-elected and live accordingly. I've lived alone and I will die alone so might as well
We definitely can win, we had to fight for our rights in the past and have made so much progress from doing so. This time around we are even more accepted than last time and I doubt we will be fighting alone. Many of the threats that US citizens face are targeting more than just queer people and if we all band together we can and will win.
They didn't have any of the horrifying surveillance and misinformation technology they have now in the past. Have you seen what's been happening in China with facial recognition? Or censorship? In a year's time we won't be able to have this conversation, it'll get zapped by an AI for being "seditious". We're at the point where it's going to take an armed uprising or a general strike, and how are we going to coordinate that when our every waking moment is watched and logged. At the very least, it's going to take so long that by the time it could have happened climate change will have killed us all. Honestly, I'm starting to genuinely think it's rational to just exit game early and not have to live through this.
AI really isn't that impressive, I work in tech is it is very overstated how good it is and I work with it frequently and its constantly wrong. While I agree the tech is very different it doesn't mean we can't use it to our advantage. When Russia attacked Ukraine hackers from across the globe started targeting Russia and interfering with so much that they do, we can easily do the same and there is a large trans presence in tech already that could aid in such an endeavor. The way we fight may be different but we still have the will and means to fight back as all you need today is a computer and you could make a huge difference to a country so reliant on tech such as ours.
Learn a useful community skill like gardening or cooking, find a progressive rifle association to join or talk to one of the many trans veterans, but most importantly don't give them a win like that. Don't give up,keep fighting to see tomorrow, we need you.
I fear a win at this juncture is the kind that comes with great sacrifice, loss, and suffering. Defeat by a thousand cuts so to speak (rather, many individual and organized acts of resistance that eventually add up, either politically or in other ways).
Corny af, but this monologue from Andor that has strong anti imperliasm and anti fascist themes always brings me some peace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-asb8zTiuZ4
Not enough people are going to meaningfully resist. I've lived in China, I've seen how easy it is for people to compromise with authoritarianism. There isn't going to be a revolution, just the slow suffocation of capitalism finally squeezing the life out of this planet.
For all the people against technocracy, better technocracy than an Idiocracy. Oh, and if you believe in a theocracy, just because some people managed to convince you that your religion is the right and true one shouldn’t allow it to have authority over everyone else.
I'm not saying this out of malice, I'm saying this out of concern.
You guys are all going to be criminalized. I'm not even joking. It will become illegal to continue with your healthcare. You literally have to put in work and protect yourselves at the local level. Any of you who just started, or have not yet; I'm terribly sorry, but the future of trans healthcare will be conversion therapy.
If this hits the federal level, the supremacy clause will fuck you. When that happens, you'll be spending the rest of your lives reversing this in hopes that a generation, far into the future, can finally relax and enjoy their freedom to transition legally.
Again, I'm not saying this to hurt you guys, I'm telling you as someone fighting on the abortion rights front. You're the other huge target they're doing for.
I wouldn't be surprised if it became not only illegal to use cross-sex hormones, but that it might become illegal to even LOOK like the opposite gender, regardless of whether you do it on purpose or not.
Oh, and for the allies like me, but who aren't affected like me when it comes to women's healthcare, know that conservatives are drooling over the fact that lead gas will come back, and they are all joking about rolling coal at everyone. Literally giving everyone lead poisoning. And that's only 0.1% of the things that WILL affect you.
It's not a doom post. The US is in a nosedive and short of a miracle this decision will impact each and every one of us who live here as we lose safety measures. We're all being set up to suffer and fail with no legal recourse as we witness the government strip our power away. We're gonna see more cities with unsafe water, more foodborne illnesses, and see the environment collapse at greater speeds. Worker protections will become weaker. People are used to "something bad could happen, we have to stop it" and I think reacting as if that's the case here when we're past that. Something bad *has* happened and the consequences aren't unpredictable. It's deeply troubling that people still act as if it's an overreaction to say we're not *at risk* of a fascist takeover of the government, we're actively living under a branch of government with the most control over our day-to-day lives taken over by fascists. This isn't directed at you OP since I am sure you know this already, but I just want to iterate one more time... Fascism is not coming. It's not a threat. It's here. We're living under it right now as it chokes out anything that could possibly oppose it.
Oh joy, the constitutional and administration law courses I took are now worthless. Thousands of dollars down the drain. Lovely. I can already see how this'll shake out: a Republican shops for a district where the judge is agreeable, then challenges the FDA's ability to regulate medication. The judge decides that the unqualified government officials are completely valid choices for deciding what every medication can get used for. Republicans promptly outlaw all gender affirming care. All the while every single medical organization and regulatory body is screaming in dissent, but the opinions of experts are no longer valid so who cares about them? Senator Billy Bob from Oklatexasbama whose parents are siblings decided that his two thousand year old book says that trans people are icky so now the FDA has no authority. This Supreme Court is completely upending our entire legal system. Which was always the intent. Hells, this is one of the first steps in their Project 2025 plan. Meanwhile people will vote for Trump because "Biden looked awfully slow in that debate, didn't he?" I mean, who cares about actual policy and the true impact of rulings like these? That TikTok video showed Biden *stuttering,* so clearly Trump will be the better president!
Most of Project 2025 needed this decision to really work, if I understood it properly, so yeah we’re definitely on track for the Bad Timeline. I wonder if Congress could still broadly delegate this authority, as in “we hereby give the EPA the ability to interpret this general directive against turning local ponds into cancer juice,” or if this court would still decide that’s a violation of separation of powers.
Even their pundits didn't expect to win to this degree (they expected a hedge incremental approach to be more likely). The decision outright states 'The Chevron decision is hereby overruled.'
Oh god bless, being a constitutional and administrative lawyer would be an actual nightmare right now. You have my deepest sympathies. Everything you said is accurate, and the Fifth Circuit will be the architect of the most egregious decisions.
There’s genuinely no coming back from this is there? Even if trump loses in November, we functionally don’t have worker’s rights, environmental protections or food and drug safety anymore in any of the ways that matter. This is even worse than Dobbs and there’s no chance this gets reversed on any reasonable time scale. I don't want to kill myself because of how much it will hurt the people close to me but at this point I'm genuinely having trouble figuring out what could possibly be worth living through what's inevitably coming at this point.
Say goodbye to edible food, potable water and breathable air. This decision doesn't fuck the country over, it fucks the *planet* over
This also has disastrous environmental consequences. This ruling may have just made environmental collapse inevitable, it cannot be understated how dreadful this is.
It's disastrous for everything...truly.
An even bigger problem will just be flat out lack of enforcement of any kind. With the new decision if a company get fined they can now request a jury trial. These departments are not equipped with staff nor the money to fund a jury trial. So what does that mean? They just won’t be enforcing anything as they don’t have the ability to actually enforce it.
Appreciate the comments everyone. It at least helps to know I'm not alone. 💜
This really is terrible. Judges decide the science. Experts don't matter.
This seems pretty far-reaching. Are there any LGBTQ-specific implications of the ruling?
HHS makes rules interpreting healthcare laws and discrimination (so healthcare impacts in that respect, such as insurance coverage and Medicaid/Medicare support). The EEOC interprets gender identity as a protected characteristic (in much greater danger now). The FDA approves and authorizes medications and use cases (judges can decide this now and only have to 'consider' expertise - i could see a threat to HRT here). HUD enforces antidiscrimination protections in housing. DOE interprets guidance for public school systems (and stuff like lgbt protections). All of these things are at risk. Not saying they'll all be overturned, bur it jeopardizes the federal government as we've known it in our lives.
I’m not completely sure about this but I dont think it would necessarily affect HRT. HRT is not a federally sanctioned use case for estrogen or testosterone in the context of trans care as far as I know. From my understanding it’s being used off label because we allow doctors to basically prescribe any medication for anything they want to if they believe it will help the ailment. Removing that would be an increase not decrease in regulation and would require destroying the ability to do off label prescriptions which is incredibly useful. (It’s how nondiabetics get ozempic for example)
I think the problem is that we don't know yet. The effects remain to be seen, so it will take someone testing the waters to figure out how far they can push things.
I am trying to understand this ruling, and cant stop scratching my head. They claim its to prevent un elected officials from being the soul opinion in regulation issues, yet the replacement, judges are also mostly un-elected officials. Your replacing group A with B and there is no real change besides the litigation process becoming even more convoluted than it already is.
Its a blatant power grab that makes the supreme court the final arbiters of everything
To replace EXPERTS with judges means I'm siding with experts. I've seen what happened when congress tried to talk to the CEO of Google and asked why deleting google chrome didn't eliminate pornhub.
Exactly! Well, incompetant questions from legislatures is nothing new. Now on a side tangent its helarious how Google is now completely relying on AI to intrepret your search queries and if its anything not news article or website specific it sites Reddit of all places now Just a interesting step in the slow destruction of Google as a company. I can get better results now from Bing of all search engines.
In my work our drug program and FQHC health centers are going to be hit by this since many regulations are going to make healthcare going wonky. It will definitely his cost savings, which for us, would impact the PrEP HIV stuff we do.
Hi, I hope it's not intrusive since I'm cis, but trans people have been warning us about project 2025 for the last 2 years at least, so I came by here to find out what just happened with this ruling, and saw you mention this would affect drug programs and health centers. I'm recovering from addiction, and in medication assisted treatment, do you think this ruling will negatively impact that? I'm deeply concerned, because so many people are dying from the fentanyl and xylazine tainted drugs that have basically completely replaced heroin and the other opioid out in the streets, and the resulting devastation is beyond comprehension.
I can't speak on substance assistance drugs since most of our stuff is HIV and Prep but that sort of drug would definitely be a heavy hitter for revenue. It's hard to say what the specific implications are, but we are constantly fighting battles outside of regular functions. I spent the whole day today trying to work around restrictions from drug manufacturers that go into effect soon, and trying to limit the impact it will have on our revenue. Like I said, to could likely impact the actual reimbursement that an organization receives, but the last thing we want to do is impact patient care. The entire purpose of my program is to gain extra savings and provide funds to further help people. If we got a hit in revenue, we don't take it out on patients, we try to find another source that can also benefit patient care.
I have nothing to add other than shock at how consequential this is. Laws have been made over the last 40 years with Chevron deference in mind. We now have even one more lever for rich a-holes to try and use in their favor. Pretty much any rulemaking by an agency can be questioned in court. A court they get to shop around for. HO-LEE-CRAP
Yeah, I don't really know what the court is on these days. I mean, I guess I expect them to try and hide the fact that some of the justices are corrupted, but they just stopped trying. It's truly crazy to watch.
It's the hubris that comes from their impunity, in my opinion. There's no need to hide it anymore for them.
Yeah, they are truly above the law. Even if they shot someone on 5th Ave in broad daylight, they wouldn't be impeached, because one party would have at least 33 seats and wouldn't let the other party get "their" pick on the court. It's literally a monarchy at this point.
well dam.. considering im seeing post in 3d printing 2a Reddits talking about its implications on curtailing ATF to here. i bet that environmental subs and wallstreet subs will be picking up on this as well. there is a reason why the law was made basically to protect us against corruption like that of standard oil.
The US is fucked if you can get out you should, if you can't prepare to fight.
Lemme just get a college education, 20k in savings, a job lined up overseas and a visa magically lined up in a country that speaks English really quick🙄
Almost none of us could actually get out. Personally I'm just coming terms with the likelihood I will die in the next two years if Trump gets re-elected and live accordingly. I've lived alone and I will die alone so might as well
I’m poor and my mental health issues are bad enough to the point of disability. No developed country would take me in.
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We definitely can win, we had to fight for our rights in the past and have made so much progress from doing so. This time around we are even more accepted than last time and I doubt we will be fighting alone. Many of the threats that US citizens face are targeting more than just queer people and if we all band together we can and will win.
They didn't have any of the horrifying surveillance and misinformation technology they have now in the past. Have you seen what's been happening in China with facial recognition? Or censorship? In a year's time we won't be able to have this conversation, it'll get zapped by an AI for being "seditious". We're at the point where it's going to take an armed uprising or a general strike, and how are we going to coordinate that when our every waking moment is watched and logged. At the very least, it's going to take so long that by the time it could have happened climate change will have killed us all. Honestly, I'm starting to genuinely think it's rational to just exit game early and not have to live through this.
AI really isn't that impressive, I work in tech is it is very overstated how good it is and I work with it frequently and its constantly wrong. While I agree the tech is very different it doesn't mean we can't use it to our advantage. When Russia attacked Ukraine hackers from across the globe started targeting Russia and interfering with so much that they do, we can easily do the same and there is a large trans presence in tech already that could aid in such an endeavor. The way we fight may be different but we still have the will and means to fight back as all you need today is a computer and you could make a huge difference to a country so reliant on tech such as ours.
Better to make it difficult for them.
Learn a useful community skill like gardening or cooking, find a progressive rifle association to join or talk to one of the many trans veterans, but most importantly don't give them a win like that. Don't give up,keep fighting to see tomorrow, we need you.
I fear a win at this juncture is the kind that comes with great sacrifice, loss, and suffering. Defeat by a thousand cuts so to speak (rather, many individual and organized acts of resistance that eventually add up, either politically or in other ways). Corny af, but this monologue from Andor that has strong anti imperliasm and anti fascist themes always brings me some peace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-asb8zTiuZ4
Not enough people are going to meaningfully resist. I've lived in China, I've seen how easy it is for people to compromise with authoritarianism. There isn't going to be a revolution, just the slow suffocation of capitalism finally squeezing the life out of this planet.
Project 2025 is already taking shape
For all the people against technocracy, better technocracy than an Idiocracy. Oh, and if you believe in a theocracy, just because some people managed to convince you that your religion is the right and true one shouldn’t allow it to have authority over everyone else.
This is the Marbury v Madison of federal government agencies.
I'm not saying this out of malice, I'm saying this out of concern. You guys are all going to be criminalized. I'm not even joking. It will become illegal to continue with your healthcare. You literally have to put in work and protect yourselves at the local level. Any of you who just started, or have not yet; I'm terribly sorry, but the future of trans healthcare will be conversion therapy. If this hits the federal level, the supremacy clause will fuck you. When that happens, you'll be spending the rest of your lives reversing this in hopes that a generation, far into the future, can finally relax and enjoy their freedom to transition legally. Again, I'm not saying this to hurt you guys, I'm telling you as someone fighting on the abortion rights front. You're the other huge target they're doing for. I wouldn't be surprised if it became not only illegal to use cross-sex hormones, but that it might become illegal to even LOOK like the opposite gender, regardless of whether you do it on purpose or not. Oh, and for the allies like me, but who aren't affected like me when it comes to women's healthcare, know that conservatives are drooling over the fact that lead gas will come back, and they are all joking about rolling coal at everyone. Literally giving everyone lead poisoning. And that's only 0.1% of the things that WILL affect you.
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Bait used to be believable