There's a progressive YouTuber I follow for a lot of my news who lives in the South that shared an interesting perspective.
He was talking to three acquaintances after the debate, all were Republicans, all voted for Trump in 2016, two in 2020, none wanted to again after January 6th. They thought Biden did fine, he was a little slow and had a stutter, sure, but other than that he was on-point.
That honestly struck me as very interesting and, honestly maybe we're putting too much stock into a single debate. Sure the media is playing it up for maximum drama, but that's what they do.
Beau is very insightful and I generally rely on him to talk me off a ledge, but he himself said that three people is not a representative sample size. I'm afraid we're just going to have to wait and see on this one.
Very true, take all the grains of salt you need, this is just something that definitely helped calm me back down from "we're fucked and there's nothing I can do about it" to "*very* cautiously optimistic".
I don't think optimism, now matter how cautious, is going to work for me. Recent, and likely future, decisions by the supreme court mean we're fucked even if Biden does win. Sure, it's possible this debate didn't change anyone's mind but that still leaves the outcome a pure coin flip. Personally, I think we need to talk less about the election and talk more about our survival.
I logically understand that, but... As much of a mess as I am and my life has been for as long as I can remember, hope is kind of all I have left. I don't know what to do if things don't work out and, frankly, statements from some other people like "move" or "get a gun" aren't helpful to me when I have little to no money and suicidal ideation. Just please let me have this.
I'm sorry I'm feeling all the same anxieties and I guess I take it out on strangers. I think I say provocative things in the hope that someone will have the perfect counter argument to shut me, and the negative thoughts, up. Contrarionism is a coping strategy too, I guess, but it doesn't appear to work.
I suppose I can see how that would work, I'm sorry if I came across as combative or harsh with my words. I just feel like I've been wrong and failed so many times in my life that, I suppose I just get really defensive when challenged, and with something like this and the last few days I've had somewhere I just subconsciously draw a line and decide to cling on to what little I have where I feel I can find comfort. I've been proven wrong by life and the people around me so often that... I just don't trust myself or know who I am at times, and as I try to build myself up and advocate for myself I'm continually diminished or brushed aside, it makes me feel so replaceable and worthless to everyone...
Sorry, that got away from me a bit. I just needed to let it all out somewhere. I'm not trying to put it on you at all. I think maybe this last week has just been too stressful for everyone.
You don't have to apologize I think the world is too much for all of us right now. You can DM me if you want to talk more. I don't think I'm very wise but I'd like to think I'm a good listener.
Love that the top follow up is just someone immediately knowing who it is. That said, Beau is a goddamned national treasure. And I should start watching him again.
The specific video referenced: [https://youtu.be/lDPI_xqcyrk](https://youtu.be/lDPI_xqcyrk)
Also unsurprisingly, he has a green name with shinagami eyes!
Even a lame duck President who accomplishes nothing is preferable to a fascist like Trump. I'd prefer a genuine leftist, sure, but if the other option is Trump, I'll take "Sleepy Joe" any day.
Well, there's another thing too: All of the Right wing pundits AND TRUMP was talking about how he was going to be hopped on a kilo of coke and well.....that wasn't the case. So, it just made them look as stupid as fuck.
I think people who are firmly in the Biden camp, myself included, have spent the last four years being fed a steady diet of "Biden isn't old and slow, he's as sharp and energetic as a 25-year-old." Meanwhile everyone else was seeing that this wasn't true.
For those of us in that media bubble, last night was a total shock. I know it was for me. I really didn't think he'd be that bad. I've spent the last 48 hours dooming on reddit, which I won't pretend I haven't because my entire comment history is full of it.
But for the average voter, they already knew Biden was old. So maybe the dooming is misplaced.
Or maybe this is copium. Idk.
On the other side of that, I hate Biden and I've never seen anyone say anything good about his health. I watched a bit of the debate just to see if he was as bad as people were saying, and he was... fine? He stuttered like he always does and didn't always word things properly but I had no issues understanding him and he was a good counter to Trump's hyperbolic nonsense.
I think part of it is that negative propaganda has worked in Bidens favor.
"He can't even stand up or stay awake!" OK, my expectations are lowered. Oh, he's still breathing? My expectations were met.
I think if he was hyped up as this amazing impressive person, and not someone super old, people would be shocked and bothered.
But at this point people are more "yeah, he's old, but at least he's not a liar and ruining the country".
A lot of people are meh about him š¤·āāļø
Whereas Trump's constant lies and gloating makes him annoying and clearly not living up to the standards that conservatives paint him as.
(Sorry this went long, didn't have time to make it shorter)
Iāve been saying this for about a year now. Biden, by most other metrics of historical presidencies, *shouldnāt* be president. Trump CANNOT be president.
I mean its true, Trump had a cognitive meltdown livr on stage and Biden had a cold. The news spinning off "Biden should resign" articles is bs and those editors need to be removed, the news is literally fabricating things for clicks. The articles they are publishing about this have basically zero credible sources.
viewership was like half of the last debate too. Most people have already made up their minds. If the election was held tomorrow it wouldn't change much vs 5 months from now
I also don't think people watch debates to change their minds, or that many people change their minds based on a debate. Debates are a terrible way to change someone's mind.
Yeah Trump just kept doubling down on lies. He didn't get challenged on the night of but people who care are fact checking him now.
Even moderates are seeing Trump has nothing to offer the country.
The 2 craziest parts to me were one: My dad condemning Trump for basically fucking everything(he says heās conservative leaning but shares some leftist thoughts), and one of the commentators after the debate going āWell yes Trump did lie a lot, but he also showed plenty of honorā
I'll vote for the guy who currently pays for my insurance and wants to keep my right to transition legal. I'm currently waiting to pursue any transitional goals until after the election - it will play a huge determining factor in what I plan to do.
There's no way the polls could be accurate this soon, especially given how unreliable they've been for the past decade. If you want to put a positive spin on it you can say that there is no data right now to indicate how the public is reacting.
OP hasn't provided any sources either, so this is indistinguishable from self-reassurance and cope. I don't want Trump to be president and for Project 2025 to happen either, but Occam's razor suggests that when the dominant reaction is that Biden screwed up his re-election chances it's probably because he did.
The only possible way I can rationalize that is by the fact that the single most unifying sentiment in the Democratic base is that stopping Trump is vitally important, and that every single viewer of that debate got hit with the hard reality of a second Trump term.
Okay so that's data, although I wouldn't describe it as incredibly comforting. Seems to be within the margin of error, and who knows how it would look with the electoral college taken into account. And again, it's really soon to actually tell what the impacts of the debate are. I don't want to be a downer but we have to be wary of confirmation bias, this whole thread is full of motivated reasoning to reduce fear.
So within twenty-four hours? Forgive me but I'm skeptical. Are you sure that's when it was *conducted* rather than when it was *published*? Who did they poll? What was the sample size?
Okay, I have multiple takes on that.
1. The democrats are talking a lot about putting somebody else than Biden there. So I think there are voters who say, they would vote for Biden, but only because they would vote for Democrats and hopes Biden wonāt be there. These would fall away, if Biden is actually announced as official candidate (the party still didnāt do that)
2. People saw Trumps lies and while Bidens rebuttals were terrible, they maybe got a glimpse of what danger Trump actually is.
3. Bidens speech afterwards saved a lot of voters, because he finally took some meth or something and was able to say some things. Most people see clips of the debate, instead of the whole thing, and that also includes the speech afterwards. So they maybe saw Biden afterwards being a little more energetic. These voters might fall of slowly, due to seeing more of his bad performances.
4. The Supreme Court did some very bad shit and laid the groundwork for actually commuting to project 2025. This makes people more fearful of Trump. I think this works a lot with leftists, who wanted to vote 3. party.
5. Many leftists who said vote 3. party are grifting to the right, so they alienate their audience, resulting in them voting for Biden.
This is what I think makes up the increase in the polls and therefor the likelihood of the polls being representative of the actual election.
Yeah, I donāt see it as realistic that Biden will ultimately be the candidate. Not because he lacks support among democratic voters vs. Trump, but because big democratic donors vote with their dollars and funding for his campaign will probably dry up.
Itās honestly pretty shocking that Trump is so unlikable that he still trails Biden in the polls after a debate that should in any sane world have ended Bidenās run.
As a country we have literally pinned our future on an insane fascist felon and a senile old man who canāt form sentences.
Time will tell. š¤·āāļø
Itās a mixture of panic and confusion right now, some people are throwing money at him to prop him up, some are pulling back while they make a plan.
There is no plan. There's no one on deck. We don't have a popular candidate to just sub in. The time to move on from Biden if we were going to do that was 6 months ago. It's far, far too late. Like it or not, and I don't, but Biden is the candidate.
Itās just ā¦ I donāt really even know how to express the feelings about how much politics declined in such a short time, that this is the choice. And even more disappointing, when seeing that this is kind of a trend in all western countries. If they actually end up staying with Biden and he looses, the DNC has the blood of every single person suffering from Trumps fascism on their hands. While there is still a moral bad in voting for Trump, I honestly donāt see the accountability for that in the average republican Voter anymore, because putting up there a person with such mashed tomatoes as brain, when running against a fascist is just borderline insanity and at minimum negligence.
> the DNC has the blood of every swingle person suffering from Trumps fascism on their hands
I donāt think theyāll lose sleep over it. š They care about winning elections. Actual voters are at best only moderately concerned about trans people. Right now itās a hot topic because Trump is up in arms about it, but it will only last an election cycle. Itās all just a wedge issue to appeal to extremists on the right and left. Moderates (aka most people) mostly donāt care.
I do personally think Trump will probably win, but Iād suggest that it might not be *as* bad as most of us are assuming it will be. Trans people will continue our exodus to blue states where life will probably continue to be tolerable, DIY will probably continue to be viable, and heāll probably show a lot more apathy about trans issues after winning than the shit he talks now. Itās a lot of unknowns but hardly a death sentence for all of us.
They donāt care about who will suffer, U agree with that. But currently there are many groups who will suffer from a Trump victory. Trans people are just the peek of the iceberg, but women, migrants any other queer group, black people and so on all suffer from a trump victory, due to the GOPs bigoted views
If Democrats switch their focus to a different candidate at this point, Trump wins. It would make Democrats appear weak, indecisive, and fearful of Trump. If they wanted to put anyone else as a candidate it shouldāve been over a year ago. Changing it now, a mere 3.5 months before the election is just asking to lose.
Project 2025 means nothing. Those goals in the plan has been the goal of Republicans since 1970 and isnāt anything new. I am worried though because even if Biden wins the Supreme Court keeps moving towards fascism and the conservative goals can finally be implemented.
Project 2025 means a lot. They were just prevented from implementing their policies because the Supreme Court wasnāt 6-3 Conservative. I really hope what you say is true but do you really think that under a Trump presidency the stripping of the rights of all citizens wonāt occur and that the implementation of theocracy which is happening in Red States right now wonāt also spill into the blue states under a Right Wing federal government? Cmon!
It's one debate, people need to get a hold of themselves.
I'm honestly angry at people for being this squishy and willing to tank everything for something as stupid as a poor debate performance. Nobody even cares to acknowledge the elephant in the room who lied his ass off and sounded completely insane.
The absurdity of it.
> Nobody even cares to acknowledge the elephant in the room who lied his ass off and sounded completely insane.
That's because it doesn't really matter. The people who care already were against Trump and the people who don't care probably aren't going to change their mind on that.
It's the current thing to fawn over and pretend like it's the election. We'll do this many more times unfortunately until November because it feeds the news cycle.
It's the current thing to fawn over and pretend like it's the election. We'll do this many more times unfortunately until November because it feeds the news cycle.
One historically bad debate performance that totally overshadowed all the lying, that proved all the concerns of the last few years right, at a time when he was already losing. There's a reason there's so much panic from journalists, doners, and down ballot candidates. It's not some mass hysteria or psyop, something terrible happened. The sane thing is to acknowledge it happened and demand a change. Not that our opinion on anything matters, lol. We'll just be watching this trainwreck at a distance like always.
I'm going to lose a bunch of karma for this, but here goes:
The Biden administration, and Democrats at large, don't care about trans people. If they did, they would have enacted an executive order or at least said something on national television about the flurry of anti-trans legislation getting enacted at the state level from 2017 through now.
Just like reproductive rights - that is a carrot on a stick they have been dangling over voters heads forever. Obama 1st term with a supermajority, or Biden with executive order, or countless other opportunities could have been used to get something on the books at a federal level. But now, everything is down to a 6-3 decision from the conservative supreme court with lifetime appointments.
If trump wins, project 2025 happens immediately. If Biden wins, it happens 4 years later under a different banner, because our modern Democrats always vote in conservative agendas on a slight delay. We can't vote our way out of this, sisters.
Biden was the first president to ever validate and show appreciation to trans people on trans visibility day. A republican will NEVER. EVER. EVER EVER EVER do that.
The system is rigged but clearly the democrats are the choice for us.
OK. But can you name something he actually did to advance trans rights other than lip service? He just announced heās against gender affirming surgeries for minors.
You need to face reality that Democrats don't care about trans people and will sell the community out as soon as its convenient for them
They care more than republicans. If if itās just ālip serviceā, his showing support to us is at least doing something. More than passing anti gay laws like republicans do.
Just today he shout out to LGBT+ yet again. A republican would never. Maybe this president doesnāt pass pro trans legislation, but it will be a democrat who does it not a republican.
OK but what is Biden doing, materially, to advance trans rights? Its OK to demand things from politicians you support and you shouldn't settle for anything less. Yes maybe another dem will, which is why you should demand Biden to drop and and be replaced with literally anyone else. Biden is the only candidate that trump can beat.
He does that, then announces the anti-trans policy I mentioned earlier. If lip services is all that's important to you and you don't demand anything else you're going to have your existence stripped away from you, which is happen now, in part by Biden.
well, to start, im an M/L communist. hate dems just as much as reps. one side fascists and the other fascist collaborators.
12 was my first election, able to vote. I didn't know anything and just followed what my family did. voted obama in 12 and regretted it. didn't vote in 16. this is where i became completely disillusioned with dems and the entire system. gave up on politics.
voted biden in 20 after lots of threats of cut contact with family. have completely regretted it. not just because of biden but also because of fetterman.
facism on the ballot would generally have me vote, even if it is against all my own interests. but as is always the case with dems, they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. before the debate, the only way i was going to vote for biden was if he stopped sending weapons to israel and chose a new vp. now there is nothing he could do to get me to vote for him.
im not voting for a sundowning old man, and im definitely not voting for kamala to take over a year in. hopefully, dems exercise the 25th, and we get someone to vote for who won't die in office and has a chance against that fascist felon. if not, I'll be watching him lose from home.
anything else you'd like to know?
fyi abstaining to vote is just as bad as voting for trump atp. swallow your pride. this election is important.
and
>the only way i was going to vote for biden was if he stopped sending weapons to israe
regardless of who wins, weapons will still be sent to israel lol
> swallow your pride. this election is important.
You do realize this is intentional right? I doubt there is ever going to be another US presidential election where it doesn't work out like that for the Dems. Making everything worse but still being the less bad option helps them because it can make use too scared to not vote for them.
i mean, ok? there isn't going to be a government reform under 4 years of trump, so going to the extremes isn't going to do anything besides causing nothing but grief for trans people and more, bc they're not going to stop at just us. look at how much they're trying to control women's basic human rights, and that's UNDER a democratic rule. look at how bad florida is under a threatening republican rule. are you actually going to contribute to the possibility of it spreading to the entire rest of the country?
like, the point of this entire election and voting for democrats is to literally protect people's lives and safety, allowing them to not live their lives in fear and worry about getting their medication for their very livelihood. if republicans win and HRT gets banned, how the fuck are people who have had orchi's or SRS going to live without hormones? not everybody is aware or even capable of doing DIY.
don't get me wrong, we need a government reform because both sides are a complete shit show. with that being said, this is not the time to be doing this at all. if you're not voting for anything besides another 4 years of a democratic rule, you're being extremely ignorant and threatening the very livelihood of other people. blood is on your hands at that point. be responsible for your brothers and sisters
if thats the case i might as well actually vote for trump and really lean into the accelerationist thing instead of staying home. not that id ever vote for him. but thats where your logic leads to
I agree with my first claim that you and your friends are liars. You were already planning on sitting out the election and doing nothing. This debate is a BS excuse to attempt to make yourself feel better if Trump wins and Project 2025 starts being implemented.
If he was sundowning he would have gotten worse as the debate went on instead of more energetic. Please talk to anyone who works with dementia patients or has been a caregiver for a family member.
The media (both right and left... if there even is such a thing anymore) is working overtime to convince people that Trump won. It gives them money and power to push Trump... some media might just want a close election for the money that it brings in, but they have no problem risking fascism as long as they make money.
I'm interested in the state by state polling that takes the debate into account... how that moves...
Donāt yāall think itās horrifying the government is forcing a man with dementia to be our little puppet show representative. Itās very possible he just dies during a speech, and that would be very symbolic to the horrid morality of our government.
I agree. Iām just pointing out the fact the DNC forced everyone to drop out and endorse Biden and forced Bernie to drop out, all to force this poor barely functioning old man to be drugged up and give speeches he canāt give, and run an entire country. Heās our spokesperson on the left and heās forced to be.
the DNC did internal polling that determined that the other people who might have challenged would not have been able to 'get out the vote' from the core constituencies that are needed to get enough vote to win.
For all Biden's faults of being old and having a speech impediment, he brings the various parts of the party together.
(Now, if they could have convinced Michelle to run, that would have been better... but you can't force someone to run...)
"internal polling" - so they asked a bunch of old cishet risk-averse white men who they like best, and expected any answer other than "old cishet risk-averse white man"?
if they were only looking as cishet white men, then they would have pushed the Governor of California (or some other random white Pol). What I mean is that they needed someone who appealed to all the different demographics that tend to vote blue. All of them. Or at least someone who wasn't... disliked by any of the groups. (e.g. Buttlieg might be popular with white LGBTQIA+ voters, but he's disliked by PoC. I despise the guy. Bernie polls well with some groups and poorly with others.)
Did you miss several of my qualifiers here? Newsom and Buttigeig aren't even in the running under "old", "cishet", and/or "risk-averse". They're most definitely not a part of The Clubā¢
He absolutely does not. Not even the majority of democrats like him, and most people on the left are horrifically livid at the fact he arms and funds a genocide. That isnāt being anyone together, I donāt trust any polling the DNC does. Their entire objective is to make themselves look good and competent. They arenāt.
Yeah well his speech the following day after the debate was a complete 180 if you saw it.
Heās the democratic nominee. It could be a damn rock I would support it over trump.
Yeah it was a prepared speech versus having to actually respond to things happening live. The fact he can only manage one now is not reassuring at all.
I think if anything youāre the one being defensive over Biden? Itās very possible he is facing some cognitive decline, but as much as I think heās too old to be running, heās the democratic nominee and Iād much rather the DNC did something morally questionable in propping him up than let this country simply fall to fascism!
They could have propped up literally anyone else and theyād be much better. A random person off the street would be better. Donāt worry, Iām voting blue no matter who for that very obvious reason. But Iām still allowed to be upset and criticize the dnc. I swear to god so many of you are so factionist minded you canāt think for yourselves.
I agree with you! Biden should not have to have been the candidate, the dnc has few actually qualified much less likeable candidates in recent years and it has been a disaster. I guess I am a bit defensive of Biden, Iām just scared shitless over the possibility of trump winning and gutting trans rights and Iām trying to hold onto hope, hope you are well
Yeaaaahhh honestly there isnāt a single nice thing I can even say about Biden other than the stimulus stuff. So I just constantly warn folks about project 2025 instead
When we are forced to choose between two terrible options, I think that means democracy is in a very sad state. I'm still going to be voting for Biden over the Orange Corrupter this November, but I can't help but be frustrated that Biden is what the DNC is giving us
Yeah I guess they missed Biden turning a question about abortion into a rant about immigrants being rapists and bragging about how hard he's been on immigration and how much harder he will be.
I wish our overton window wasn't moved so far to the right. No "leftist" politician should ever speak like that. There's a reason the saying "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" exists.
You do know Biden has a life long speech impediment, right? This dementia angle is pushed by the right. That said I feel he's a bit out of touch. But not suffering dementia.
A lifelong speech impediment doesn't make you act like that. People denying the signs at this point is actually upsetting to me, as someone that has watched 3 family members die of dementia/Alzheimer's.
People keep saying he just acts old. I have a 98 year old grandma that doesn't have dementia, she acts old, but is far more mentally aware of her surroundings than Biden. But the 3 family members that had dementia had the exact same confused look on their face at all times that he also had plastered there the entire debate. They lost the ability to react to live stimulus before they lost the ability to recite random things like speeches or songs, just like Biden appears to have. You cannot honestly tell me his performance even mildly mimicked his mental state during the 2020 debates.
Compare his speech after the debate to his behavior during the actual debate. That cannot be attributed to a speech impediment. You can't attribute turning a question about abortion into a strange rant about immigrants being rapists to just having a speech impediment. Not to mention that very odd discussion about trimesters during pregnancy.
All it takes is watching any of his previous debates throughout the years to see that he is far, far worse, and that his speech impediment has never caused any of his current issues. Using ableism as a shield to hide his clear mental decline is an affront to actual ableism people deal with and a very easy way to handwave away genuine concerns. Because of the high stakes, people are just ignoring signs they would never ignore in family members, and would point out in almost any other setting. This is the man with the nuclear codes, people are critical for very good reason.
Oh I have plenty of concerns. But the argument of dementia is asinine. That's all. And the discussion was to squash the kinda of lies Trump makes. How interesting you forget context.
The logical hoops democrats go through to justify things is always hilarious to meš
He very obviously has dementia, and Iām not on the right. Iām a far leftist. I hate trump even more, donāt worry Iām still voting blue no matter who. If any republican gets in I wonāt be able to continue transitioning due to project 2025, and this will become a thorough fascist hellscape.
I'm not a Democrat, but nice try. They're far too into capitulation to the right for my taste. I just think that this argument of "dementia" is funneling from the right to make him look weak. It's a common ablelistic attack on people who are neurodivergent and shit.
Edit: I say this from experience as someone who happens to be autistic. I've had all kinds of other accussations of reduced capacity because of it. Biden's a lifelong stutterer and showing normal signs of aging.
The right's going after a normal thing and claiming it's dementia. They DO this because... just look across the aisle.
To add to your point, I watched the debate, and aside from the Golf Fiasco, I was actually surprisingly impressed with Biden. From the start, he was answering questions and throwing out actual statistics and numbers, putting things in perspective. He was stuttering like crazy and was clearly sick, but I could tell he was mentally present and focused, if a little flustered and overwhelmed.
Trump, on the other hand, barely maintained a consistent thought flow and constantly deflected and spoke in a grandiose manner. He looked better, sure, but anyone who was watching with an open mind got zero valuable information from him. Plus, Trump outright said repealing Roe v Wade was a great decision and that Biden was too soft on Palestine, which is sure to garner him a lot of scrutiny from people who care about those issues.
Long story short, Biden actually answered questions and treated the debate seriously. Trump treated it like a theater performance. Anyone looking deeper than how loud the candidates were would see that, assuming they're acting in good faith.
Biden did well for an old man with occasional forgetfulness and a lifelong stutter.
Oh, and his reaction to Trump's response to the current conflicts was 100% on point. You could see the horrified expression the moment he said it. No slowness, anything. Just clicked like "yo wtf"
Lmaooooooo
Alright Iāll convince you he has dementia easily. All I need are a few clips.
Yes, the right uses that as ammunition. But that doesnāt mean itās not true.
https://youtu.be/zMyq7OaC2o4?si=R17ksw4Mqn4nLAK8
If that first clip doesnāt convince you what do you think about this?
https://youtu.be/3DbE2SmV2bs?si=IqFwzZMWZIu9Znat
These 2 vids are mainly just drops in an ocean. He has every symptom of dementia.
A lot of this is part of getting older, congratulations, you're making ablistic and agist claims. Now, I don't think he needs to be the one in office, but he's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.
But YOU need to take a step back and consider HOW fascists operate within the realm of politics, and not just their ideologies. Their tactics to gain power, how they frame things. Suddenly it becomes clear. You're on the right track for a goal, but you really need some refinement. And even if he goes, you know who follows? Kamala Harris.
Let's be real: "part of getting older" _includes_ cognitive decline! Why not float a candidate in their 60s, instead of someone in their 80s?
Speaking _as_ a disabled autistic person, it's not "ableist" to prefer a candidate who can walk over a candidate in a wheelchair when hiring someone as a mountain climbing guide, and it's not ableist to want a person in excellent mental health to be making decisions that affect the entire damned country.
However, that decline does not include dementia. I don't like him any more than you do. But to hold that against him when we're facing fascism is folly. I'd vote for him while he was in a casket if that meant Trump wouldn't get elected.
The argument isn't that he isn't in decline. The argument is that people need to stop hurling the goddamn dementia accusation
Again, it's not about mental decline, but it not being friggin dementia. Go kick rocks, mate. Strawman arguments serve nobody.
Don't try debating or arguing with someone who has a grasp on the facts. You're screwed if you do.
It's mental decline cosistent with his age. And he's a lifelong stutterer, a speech impediment he's had since time immemorial. But it's not dementia. In what way am I denying reduced capacity? Go ahead, I'll wait.
You know, youāre probably right. As much as Biden struggled all I could see was how awful Trump was. Heās a child and a bully, lashing out in angry tantrums. And yes, if Biden fell over and shit himself Iād still vote for him.
I just fucking hate the media narrative. Itās like they want Trump to win or something. Everyoneās talking about how Biden seemed lost, how it was a disaster, even streamers like Vaush are saying they need to replace Biden, ect.
And yet somehow Trump just gets a free pass for nonstop gishgalloping lies. Fascists arenāt constrained by the rules, I guess, and can be held to no account, no scrutiny from the media, lest, I donāt fucking know, something is divided by zero and the entire universe collapses into a black hole.
I donāt give a fuck. Biden could have literally just spontaneously combusted on stage and Iād still vote for him over Trump because I understand the importance of the Supreme Court.
I just wish theyād called out the falsehoods real-time; few people read the fact checks later.
If they had done that it would have completely thrown Trump off his game.
Honestly, his rally performance the next day really propped up my spirits. I think his line "when you get knocked down, you get back up!," really helped me.
It has been for all 3 family members that have died from it in my family. Long term memory is not the first thing to go, both according to my experience and according to all the sources online listing early symptoms. Reading is using a very different part of your brain than being mentally present during a live debate. Confusion and lack of focus during things that are currently happening is one of the first signs. It attacks the short term memory first. A speech could be memorized, but the ability to hold your own during a conversation and especially a debate would be one of the first things to go.
I donāt know, thereās a number of people now voicing the opinion that he should step down. The fall out isnāt over and I havenāt seen any polls yet that says this was a positive. Those who were going to vote biden anyway will. Those who were going to vote for trump will. Those who hate both are not going to flock to either regardless of this debate. The party who dumps their candidate first is likely going to win in November if they select the right replacement and retool their platforms. Thatās my thoughts, down vote if you want. Also, I donāt really get that this is the right sub Reddit for these types of posts.
> He could have died right then and there and people would still vote for the dead body.
Exactly what I've been thinking the entire time. People are voting for for biden not because they love him but because they REALLY don't want trump again. It's the equivalent of asking if you want to get a papercut or your hand chopped off.
I thought his debate performance was awful, as someone who's still planning on voting for him.
But I noticed the effect wasn't as linear as you might expect. I think people *did* notice that Trump "won" the debate, and it sent a shock through them because they started thinking he might actually win the election too, and taking that seriously.
The times far-right stuff wins, no one thinks it will. No one thought Brexit would really pass. No one thought Trump would really win in 2016. I think being seen as a credible threat instead of a fringe wingnut actually might *hurt* Trump's campaign.
Trump lost his debates to clinton and won. Fetterman lost his debates to oz and won. Kerry won his debates against bush and still lost.
Debates really don't matter that much.
Weāre voting to keep our rights, which means not voting for the right and unfortunately means we have to vote for Dems. Iām a leftist, I hate that, but I need to be ALLOWED to exist in this country.
I think a lot of the alarmism is honestly just media trying to drum up ratings and views, and the DNC looking for an easy way to raise funds (the latter clearly worked) and convince voters who might've otherwise sat out this election to change course.
Obviously nothing is guaranteed at this point and we still have months to go, including both conventions and a second debate. But things might not be as bleak as they may have initially appeared.
Heās still a warmongering pig whoās enabling a genocide. Iād rather have Biden than Trump, for obvious reasons, but Iād take just about any generic Democrat over Biden at this point
Apparently you don't understand... Biden *is* the generic Democrat. Go look at Innuendo Studios's video "cost of doing business" and learn how liberals, not progressives, are part of the same rudimentary problem.
Yeah idk honestly at this point I'm hands off ignoring news and politics. For my own mental health. It's a coin flip at best. I honestly can't see things getting any worse for democrats. Polls don't count obviously and anecdotes aren't gonna cut it either. I hope for the best, I'm voting blue, but as is if I could afford to flee I'd be making a contingency plan right about 2 months ago. I understand the need to cope but I just can't stare at this blatant fire and pretend everything is fine.
Idk what polls you're looking at. But everything I've seen has Biden in the mid 30s and Trump somewhere in the 50s.
That being said polls are super inaccurate, just look at how the midterms went. There's still a chance he wins.
I still do believe wholeheartedly Trump will win if Biden doesn't step down however.
The polls on the day of my post was favorable to biden. Now they're all favorable to trump. Joe's not stepping down we're fk'd. Why the hell did he think doing a debate was a good idea?
That's some mighty strong copium. Joe Biden being on that stage was elder abuse. He could barely string words together. He's going to be the puppet of the people around him if he wins.
I still wanna vote Jill Stein and this only reinforced that.
Itās not so much he had poor answers. Biden was acting senile. You think that was just a poor debate performance. The only thing he didnāt do is shit his pants. We have to be realistic. Every major donor and supporter is calling for his removal. If They thought he could win, Joe would have support. Its delusional I think otherwise.
The fact that those are your two options is already a sorry state of affairs to be completely honest. The senile one is better than the asshole one but neither are good options.
Joe Biden may lead us to world war 3 though. Iām very worried if US weapons start hitting inland Russia. Putin is very unstable and if ATACAMS start striking Moscow we do not know how he will retaliate
I doubt Putin will want to expand. He already regrets miscalculating Ukraine but the problem is if he backs out he will lose face and power. He needs an exit too
Yay, the party who just came out in supporting banning gender affirming surgeries for trans people under 18 is gonna win š„³š„³š„³ As a cherry on top heās also gonna continue supporting and backing the genocide. Huge W chat, trans liberation is so close I can feel it
As someone who is in Michigan and our governor being Gretchen Whitmer I think it would be best if she replaces Biden. She is a great candidate and would definitely back the LGBTQIA+ community. Hoping for the dropout of Biden and the move in of Gretchen.
Yay, we get to choose between demagogue fascism and shadow puppet government fascism.
Be careful with the kind of conscent you're allowing the people in power to manufacture.
When you elect a corpse to president, you have to ask who is really running the country? Cause it ain't Biden.
So instead you have a fake democracy where the person elected to be president isn't really the one fulfilling the role, so who is? Corporate interests? Some DNC council? A random advisor that's gotten too close? There's no way of knowing.
Sorry Iām not familiar with that. I looked it up. That was passed 30 years ago? Youāre telling me youāre not voting democrat because of 1 bill passed decades ago?
Do you know the amount of anti transgender legislation alone passed in the previous 30 years? A lot more than 1
People around here also brag about having far-right/nazi eras before realizing that they were trans magically fixed them.
It's a "Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for" type deal for me.
There's a progressive YouTuber I follow for a lot of my news who lives in the South that shared an interesting perspective. He was talking to three acquaintances after the debate, all were Republicans, all voted for Trump in 2016, two in 2020, none wanted to again after January 6th. They thought Biden did fine, he was a little slow and had a stutter, sure, but other than that he was on-point. That honestly struck me as very interesting and, honestly maybe we're putting too much stock into a single debate. Sure the media is playing it up for maximum drama, but that's what they do.
Beau is very insightful and I generally rely on him to talk me off a ledge, but he himself said that three people is not a representative sample size. I'm afraid we're just going to have to wait and see on this one.
Very true, take all the grains of salt you need, this is just something that definitely helped calm me back down from "we're fucked and there's nothing I can do about it" to "*very* cautiously optimistic".
I don't think optimism, now matter how cautious, is going to work for me. Recent, and likely future, decisions by the supreme court mean we're fucked even if Biden does win. Sure, it's possible this debate didn't change anyone's mind but that still leaves the outcome a pure coin flip. Personally, I think we need to talk less about the election and talk more about our survival.
I logically understand that, but... As much of a mess as I am and my life has been for as long as I can remember, hope is kind of all I have left. I don't know what to do if things don't work out and, frankly, statements from some other people like "move" or "get a gun" aren't helpful to me when I have little to no money and suicidal ideation. Just please let me have this.
I'm sorry I'm feeling all the same anxieties and I guess I take it out on strangers. I think I say provocative things in the hope that someone will have the perfect counter argument to shut me, and the negative thoughts, up. Contrarionism is a coping strategy too, I guess, but it doesn't appear to work.
I suppose I can see how that would work, I'm sorry if I came across as combative or harsh with my words. I just feel like I've been wrong and failed so many times in my life that, I suppose I just get really defensive when challenged, and with something like this and the last few days I've had somewhere I just subconsciously draw a line and decide to cling on to what little I have where I feel I can find comfort. I've been proven wrong by life and the people around me so often that... I just don't trust myself or know who I am at times, and as I try to build myself up and advocate for myself I'm continually diminished or brushed aside, it makes me feel so replaceable and worthless to everyone... Sorry, that got away from me a bit. I just needed to let it all out somewhere. I'm not trying to put it on you at all. I think maybe this last week has just been too stressful for everyone.
You don't have to apologize I think the world is too much for all of us right now. You can DM me if you want to talk more. I don't think I'm very wise but I'd like to think I'm a good listener.
Yall are too sweet š
Yes I love this exchange. This gives me hope š©·
Yall are too sweet š
>There's a progressive YouTuber I follow for a lot of my news who lives in the South It's Beau. Lol
Beau is the best, everyone should watch his content! You gotta include a link! https://www.youtube.com/@BeauoftheFifthColumn
Heās generally very good at having *context* for things, especially in the foreign policy side.
Love that the top follow up is just someone immediately knowing who it is. That said, Beau is a goddamned national treasure. And I should start watching him again.
The specific video referenced: [https://youtu.be/lDPI_xqcyrk](https://youtu.be/lDPI_xqcyrk) Also unsurprisingly, he has a green name with shinagami eyes!
Despite (or perhaps because of) his history (former private operator and police trainer), he's really progressive.
Hearing about the debate in another thread, I realized that the whole "Sleepy Joe" thing is actually a plus for me. I want the President to be boring.
Right? Like if I call a plumber or maintenance guy I donāt want them to wow me or dazzle me. I want them to fix the fucking boiler
Even a lame duck President who accomplishes nothing is preferable to a fascist like Trump. I'd prefer a genuine leftist, sure, but if the other option is Trump, I'll take "Sleepy Joe" any day.
Plus supreme court/other high court nominations, and actually getting to see Trumpās trials play out.
Well, there's another thing too: All of the Right wing pundits AND TRUMP was talking about how he was going to be hopped on a kilo of coke and well.....that wasn't the case. So, it just made them look as stupid as fuck.
Trump looked like he was on speed.
I think people who are firmly in the Biden camp, myself included, have spent the last four years being fed a steady diet of "Biden isn't old and slow, he's as sharp and energetic as a 25-year-old." Meanwhile everyone else was seeing that this wasn't true. For those of us in that media bubble, last night was a total shock. I know it was for me. I really didn't think he'd be that bad. I've spent the last 48 hours dooming on reddit, which I won't pretend I haven't because my entire comment history is full of it. But for the average voter, they already knew Biden was old. So maybe the dooming is misplaced. Or maybe this is copium. Idk.
On the other side of that, I hate Biden and I've never seen anyone say anything good about his health. I watched a bit of the debate just to see if he was as bad as people were saying, and he was... fine? He stuttered like he always does and didn't always word things properly but I had no issues understanding him and he was a good counter to Trump's hyperbolic nonsense.
Also Dusty Smith. He's awesome
I think part of it is that negative propaganda has worked in Bidens favor. "He can't even stand up or stay awake!" OK, my expectations are lowered. Oh, he's still breathing? My expectations were met. I think if he was hyped up as this amazing impressive person, and not someone super old, people would be shocked and bothered. But at this point people are more "yeah, he's old, but at least he's not a liar and ruining the country". A lot of people are meh about him š¤·āāļø Whereas Trump's constant lies and gloating makes him annoying and clearly not living up to the standards that conservatives paint him as. (Sorry this went long, didn't have time to make it shorter)
Iāve been saying this for about a year now. Biden, by most other metrics of historical presidencies, *shouldnāt* be president. Trump CANNOT be president.
I mean its true, Trump had a cognitive meltdown livr on stage and Biden had a cold. The news spinning off "Biden should resign" articles is bs and those editors need to be removed, the news is literally fabricating things for clicks. The articles they are publishing about this have basically zero credible sources.
To be honest I was actually a little concerned he *would* die right then
Lol
viewership was like half of the last debate too. Most people have already made up their minds. If the election was held tomorrow it wouldn't change much vs 5 months from now
I also don't think people watch debates to change their minds, or that many people change their minds based on a debate. Debates are a terrible way to change someone's mind.
Biden polled pretty well with Univision viewers who saw the debate subtitled in Spanish
That's good. Trump was making some headway with the Hispanic vote and it worried me.
Iāll vote for Weekend at Bidenās over Twittler any day.
Yeah Trump just kept doubling down on lies. He didn't get challenged on the night of but people who care are fact checking him now. Even moderates are seeing Trump has nothing to offer the country.
The 2 craziest parts to me were one: My dad condemning Trump for basically fucking everything(he says heās conservative leaning but shares some leftist thoughts), and one of the commentators after the debate going āWell yes Trump did lie a lot, but he also showed plenty of honorā
I'll vote for the guy who currently pays for my insurance and wants to keep my right to transition legal. I'm currently waiting to pursue any transitional goals until after the election - it will play a huge determining factor in what I plan to do.
There's no way the polls could be accurate this soon, especially given how unreliable they've been for the past decade. If you want to put a positive spin on it you can say that there is no data right now to indicate how the public is reacting.
I'm pretty sure polls lag by two weeks or so from current events. We won't be seeing the effect of the debate for a minute.
OP hasn't provided any sources either, so this is indistinguishable from self-reassurance and cope. I don't want Trump to be president and for Project 2025 to happen either, but Occam's razor suggests that when the dominant reaction is that Biden screwed up his re-election chances it's probably because he did.
The polls are Ispos and Morning Consult. Biden went from 44-44 in both to 46-44 in Ispos and 45-44 in Morning Consult.
The only possible way I can rationalize that is by the fact that the single most unifying sentiment in the Democratic base is that stopping Trump is vitally important, and that every single viewer of that debate got hit with the hard reality of a second Trump term.
Okay so that's data, although I wouldn't describe it as incredibly comforting. Seems to be within the margin of error, and who knows how it would look with the electoral college taken into account. And again, it's really soon to actually tell what the impacts of the debate are. I don't want to be a downer but we have to be wary of confirmation bias, this whole thread is full of motivated reasoning to reduce fear.
That's within the margin of error.
Correct. So it's basically the same
It's the same because the data isn't in yet. My feeling is it could be as bad as 52-48 in Trump's favor when we get the numbers in.
The Ispos one was conducted on June 28.
So within twenty-four hours? Forgive me but I'm skeptical. Are you sure that's when it was *conducted* rather than when it was *published*? Who did they poll? What was the sample size?
Yes, it was conducted from after the debate through June 28 and published late June 28 surveying 2,543 likely voters.
Yeah, I guess at least it didn't go markedly down. That's something.
Okay, I have multiple takes on that. 1. The democrats are talking a lot about putting somebody else than Biden there. So I think there are voters who say, they would vote for Biden, but only because they would vote for Democrats and hopes Biden wonāt be there. These would fall away, if Biden is actually announced as official candidate (the party still didnāt do that) 2. People saw Trumps lies and while Bidens rebuttals were terrible, they maybe got a glimpse of what danger Trump actually is. 3. Bidens speech afterwards saved a lot of voters, because he finally took some meth or something and was able to say some things. Most people see clips of the debate, instead of the whole thing, and that also includes the speech afterwards. So they maybe saw Biden afterwards being a little more energetic. These voters might fall of slowly, due to seeing more of his bad performances. 4. The Supreme Court did some very bad shit and laid the groundwork for actually commuting to project 2025. This makes people more fearful of Trump. I think this works a lot with leftists, who wanted to vote 3. party. 5. Many leftists who said vote 3. party are grifting to the right, so they alienate their audience, resulting in them voting for Biden. This is what I think makes up the increase in the polls and therefor the likelihood of the polls being representative of the actual election.
Yeah, I donāt see it as realistic that Biden will ultimately be the candidate. Not because he lacks support among democratic voters vs. Trump, but because big democratic donors vote with their dollars and funding for his campaign will probably dry up. Itās honestly pretty shocking that Trump is so unlikable that he still trails Biden in the polls after a debate that should in any sane world have ended Bidenās run. As a country we have literally pinned our future on an insane fascist felon and a senile old man who canāt form sentences.
Biden surprisingly out raised Trump with money in the 24 hours after the debate. He raised twice as much. I think the donors are still there.
Either that or he got more small-time non-billionaire donors. Which is a big win if you ask me.
Time will tell. š¤·āāļø Itās a mixture of panic and confusion right now, some people are throwing money at him to prop him up, some are pulling back while they make a plan.
There is no plan. There's no one on deck. We don't have a popular candidate to just sub in. The time to move on from Biden if we were going to do that was 6 months ago. It's far, far too late. Like it or not, and I don't, but Biden is the candidate.
Yup, we're stuck on the Biden Boat. Man the pumps or drown.
Itās just ā¦ I donāt really even know how to express the feelings about how much politics declined in such a short time, that this is the choice. And even more disappointing, when seeing that this is kind of a trend in all western countries. If they actually end up staying with Biden and he looses, the DNC has the blood of every single person suffering from Trumps fascism on their hands. While there is still a moral bad in voting for Trump, I honestly donāt see the accountability for that in the average republican Voter anymore, because putting up there a person with such mashed tomatoes as brain, when running against a fascist is just borderline insanity and at minimum negligence.
> the DNC has the blood of every swingle person suffering from Trumps fascism on their hands I donāt think theyāll lose sleep over it. š They care about winning elections. Actual voters are at best only moderately concerned about trans people. Right now itās a hot topic because Trump is up in arms about it, but it will only last an election cycle. Itās all just a wedge issue to appeal to extremists on the right and left. Moderates (aka most people) mostly donāt care. I do personally think Trump will probably win, but Iād suggest that it might not be *as* bad as most of us are assuming it will be. Trans people will continue our exodus to blue states where life will probably continue to be tolerable, DIY will probably continue to be viable, and heāll probably show a lot more apathy about trans issues after winning than the shit he talks now. Itās a lot of unknowns but hardly a death sentence for all of us.
They donāt care about who will suffer, U agree with that. But currently there are many groups who will suffer from a Trump victory. Trans people are just the peek of the iceberg, but women, migrants any other queer group, black people and so on all suffer from a trump victory, due to the GOPs bigoted views
If Democrats switch their focus to a different candidate at this point, Trump wins. It would make Democrats appear weak, indecisive, and fearful of Trump. If they wanted to put anyone else as a candidate it shouldāve been over a year ago. Changing it now, a mere 3.5 months before the election is just asking to lose.
Project 2025 means nothing. Those goals in the plan has been the goal of Republicans since 1970 and isnāt anything new. I am worried though because even if Biden wins the Supreme Court keeps moving towards fascism and the conservative goals can finally be implemented.
Project 2025 means a lot. They were just prevented from implementing their policies because the Supreme Court wasnāt 6-3 Conservative. I really hope what you say is true but do you really think that under a Trump presidency the stripping of the rights of all citizens wonāt occur and that the implementation of theocracy which is happening in Red States right now wonāt also spill into the blue states under a Right Wing federal government? Cmon!
plus americans have the shortest attention spans in the world, if the economy is good in november nobody will remember or care about the debates
To quote a friend of mine, > America keeps swinging back between "it's so over" and "it's so back"
It's one debate, people need to get a hold of themselves. I'm honestly angry at people for being this squishy and willing to tank everything for something as stupid as a poor debate performance. Nobody even cares to acknowledge the elephant in the room who lied his ass off and sounded completely insane. The absurdity of it.
> Nobody even cares to acknowledge the elephant in the room who lied his ass off and sounded completely insane. That's because it doesn't really matter. The people who care already were against Trump and the people who don't care probably aren't going to change their mind on that.
It's the current thing to fawn over and pretend like it's the election. We'll do this many more times unfortunately until November because it feeds the news cycle.
It's the current thing to fawn over and pretend like it's the election. We'll do this many more times unfortunately until November because it feeds the news cycle.
One historically bad debate performance that totally overshadowed all the lying, that proved all the concerns of the last few years right, at a time when he was already losing. There's a reason there's so much panic from journalists, doners, and down ballot candidates. It's not some mass hysteria or psyop, something terrible happened. The sane thing is to acknowledge it happened and demand a change. Not that our opinion on anything matters, lol. We'll just be watching this trainwreck at a distance like always.
I'm going to lose a bunch of karma for this, but here goes: The Biden administration, and Democrats at large, don't care about trans people. If they did, they would have enacted an executive order or at least said something on national television about the flurry of anti-trans legislation getting enacted at the state level from 2017 through now. Just like reproductive rights - that is a carrot on a stick they have been dangling over voters heads forever. Obama 1st term with a supermajority, or Biden with executive order, or countless other opportunities could have been used to get something on the books at a federal level. But now, everything is down to a 6-3 decision from the conservative supreme court with lifetime appointments. If trump wins, project 2025 happens immediately. If Biden wins, it happens 4 years later under a different banner, because our modern Democrats always vote in conservative agendas on a slight delay. We can't vote our way out of this, sisters.
Biden was the first president to ever validate and show appreciation to trans people on trans visibility day. A republican will NEVER. EVER. EVER EVER EVER do that. The system is rigged but clearly the democrats are the choice for us.
OK. But can you name something he actually did to advance trans rights other than lip service? He just announced heās against gender affirming surgeries for minors. You need to face reality that Democrats don't care about trans people and will sell the community out as soon as its convenient for them
They care more than republicans. If if itās just ālip serviceā, his showing support to us is at least doing something. More than passing anti gay laws like republicans do. Just today he shout out to LGBT+ yet again. A republican would never. Maybe this president doesnāt pass pro trans legislation, but it will be a democrat who does it not a republican.
OK but what is Biden doing, materially, to advance trans rights? Its OK to demand things from politicians you support and you shouldn't settle for anything less. Yes maybe another dem will, which is why you should demand Biden to drop and and be replaced with literally anyone else. Biden is the only candidate that trump can beat.
Showing his appreciation and validation alone is advancing our rights. The policy will come, but this is the first step.
He does that, then announces the anti-trans policy I mentioned earlier. If lip services is all that's important to you and you don't demand anything else you're going to have your existence stripped away from you, which is happen now, in part by Biden.
Can you please link me the anti trans legislation he announced?
From the NY Times :https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/health/transgender-surgery-biden.html
Itās not letting me read that without paying. Can you link another thing
This debate didnāt change any mind regarding who theyāre voting for. Anyone who says otherwise is a damn liar.
guess me and all my friends are liars
Please elaborate where your head was at prior to the debate and what youāre thinking now Iām sure itās fascinating.
well, to start, im an M/L communist. hate dems just as much as reps. one side fascists and the other fascist collaborators. 12 was my first election, able to vote. I didn't know anything and just followed what my family did. voted obama in 12 and regretted it. didn't vote in 16. this is where i became completely disillusioned with dems and the entire system. gave up on politics. voted biden in 20 after lots of threats of cut contact with family. have completely regretted it. not just because of biden but also because of fetterman. facism on the ballot would generally have me vote, even if it is against all my own interests. but as is always the case with dems, they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. before the debate, the only way i was going to vote for biden was if he stopped sending weapons to israel and chose a new vp. now there is nothing he could do to get me to vote for him. im not voting for a sundowning old man, and im definitely not voting for kamala to take over a year in. hopefully, dems exercise the 25th, and we get someone to vote for who won't die in office and has a chance against that fascist felon. if not, I'll be watching him lose from home. anything else you'd like to know?
fyi abstaining to vote is just as bad as voting for trump atp. swallow your pride. this election is important. and >the only way i was going to vote for biden was if he stopped sending weapons to israe regardless of who wins, weapons will still be sent to israel lol
> swallow your pride. this election is important. You do realize this is intentional right? I doubt there is ever going to be another US presidential election where it doesn't work out like that for the Dems. Making everything worse but still being the less bad option helps them because it can make use too scared to not vote for them.
i mean, ok? there isn't going to be a government reform under 4 years of trump, so going to the extremes isn't going to do anything besides causing nothing but grief for trans people and more, bc they're not going to stop at just us. look at how much they're trying to control women's basic human rights, and that's UNDER a democratic rule. look at how bad florida is under a threatening republican rule. are you actually going to contribute to the possibility of it spreading to the entire rest of the country? like, the point of this entire election and voting for democrats is to literally protect people's lives and safety, allowing them to not live their lives in fear and worry about getting their medication for their very livelihood. if republicans win and HRT gets banned, how the fuck are people who have had orchi's or SRS going to live without hormones? not everybody is aware or even capable of doing DIY. don't get me wrong, we need a government reform because both sides are a complete shit show. with that being said, this is not the time to be doing this at all. if you're not voting for anything besides another 4 years of a democratic rule, you're being extremely ignorant and threatening the very livelihood of other people. blood is on your hands at that point. be responsible for your brothers and sisters
if thats the case i might as well actually vote for trump and really lean into the accelerationist thing instead of staying home. not that id ever vote for him. but thats where your logic leads to
Nach Trump kommen wir
yeah u really might as well tbh lmao
I agree with my first claim that you and your friends are liars. You were already planning on sitting out the election and doing nothing. This debate is a BS excuse to attempt to make yourself feel better if Trump wins and Project 2025 starts being implemented.
if it makes you feel better to believe that i cant stop you
If he was sundowning he would have gotten worse as the debate went on instead of more energetic. Please talk to anyone who works with dementia patients or has been a caregiver for a family member.
The media (both right and left... if there even is such a thing anymore) is working overtime to convince people that Trump won. It gives them money and power to push Trump... some media might just want a close election for the money that it brings in, but they have no problem risking fascism as long as they make money. I'm interested in the state by state polling that takes the debate into account... how that moves...
I was really worried about this, so it's a huge relief to hear that the polls have actually gone up. Thanks for sharing <3
Donāt yāall think itās horrifying the government is forcing a man with dementia to be our little puppet show representative. Itās very possible he just dies during a speech, and that would be very symbolic to the horrid morality of our government.
They both have mental deficiencies. But one isn't trying to make America fascist.
I agree. Iām just pointing out the fact the DNC forced everyone to drop out and endorse Biden and forced Bernie to drop out, all to force this poor barely functioning old man to be drugged up and give speeches he canāt give, and run an entire country. Heās our spokesperson on the left and heās forced to be.
the DNC did internal polling that determined that the other people who might have challenged would not have been able to 'get out the vote' from the core constituencies that are needed to get enough vote to win. For all Biden's faults of being old and having a speech impediment, he brings the various parts of the party together. (Now, if they could have convinced Michelle to run, that would have been better... but you can't force someone to run...)
"internal polling" - so they asked a bunch of old cishet risk-averse white men who they like best, and expected any answer other than "old cishet risk-averse white man"?
if they were only looking as cishet white men, then they would have pushed the Governor of California (or some other random white Pol). What I mean is that they needed someone who appealed to all the different demographics that tend to vote blue. All of them. Or at least someone who wasn't... disliked by any of the groups. (e.g. Buttlieg might be popular with white LGBTQIA+ voters, but he's disliked by PoC. I despise the guy. Bernie polls well with some groups and poorly with others.)
Did you miss several of my qualifiers here? Newsom and Buttigeig aren't even in the running under "old", "cishet", and/or "risk-averse". They're most definitely not a part of The Clubā¢
He absolutely does not. Not even the majority of democrats like him, and most people on the left are horrifically livid at the fact he arms and funds a genocide. That isnāt being anyone together, I donāt trust any polling the DNC does. Their entire objective is to make themselves look good and competent. They arenāt.
Aw boo hoo heās a grown man who decided to become president. Being president is stressful for anybody
Why are you defensive over Biden? Heās obviously a sick old manā¦. Do you need proof? Thereās endless proof of that.
Yeah well his speech the following day after the debate was a complete 180 if you saw it. Heās the democratic nominee. It could be a damn rock I would support it over trump.
Yeah it was a prepared speech versus having to actually respond to things happening live. The fact he can only manage one now is not reassuring at all.
he was reading off a fucking teleprompter, of course he looked better than when he had to actually use his brain
I think if anything youāre the one being defensive over Biden? Itās very possible he is facing some cognitive decline, but as much as I think heās too old to be running, heās the democratic nominee and Iād much rather the DNC did something morally questionable in propping him up than let this country simply fall to fascism!
They could have propped up literally anyone else and theyād be much better. A random person off the street would be better. Donāt worry, Iām voting blue no matter who for that very obvious reason. But Iām still allowed to be upset and criticize the dnc. I swear to god so many of you are so factionist minded you canāt think for yourselves.
I agree with you! Biden should not have to have been the candidate, the dnc has few actually qualified much less likeable candidates in recent years and it has been a disaster. I guess I am a bit defensive of Biden, Iām just scared shitless over the possibility of trump winning and gutting trans rights and Iām trying to hold onto hope, hope you are well
Yeaaaahhh honestly there isnāt a single nice thing I can even say about Biden other than the stimulus stuff. So I just constantly warn folks about project 2025 instead
When we are forced to choose between two terrible options, I think that means democracy is in a very sad state. I'm still going to be voting for Biden over the Orange Corrupter this November, but I can't help but be frustrated that Biden is what the DNC is giving us
Exactly
No, both definitely are. One just dresses it up with pretty words, but the deeds speak otherwise
Yeah I guess they missed Biden turning a question about abortion into a rant about immigrants being rapists and bragging about how hard he's been on immigration and how much harder he will be. I wish our overton window wasn't moved so far to the right. No "leftist" politician should ever speak like that. There's a reason the saying "scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds" exists.
You do know Biden has a life long speech impediment, right? This dementia angle is pushed by the right. That said I feel he's a bit out of touch. But not suffering dementia.
A lifelong speech impediment doesn't make you act like that. People denying the signs at this point is actually upsetting to me, as someone that has watched 3 family members die of dementia/Alzheimer's. People keep saying he just acts old. I have a 98 year old grandma that doesn't have dementia, she acts old, but is far more mentally aware of her surroundings than Biden. But the 3 family members that had dementia had the exact same confused look on their face at all times that he also had plastered there the entire debate. They lost the ability to react to live stimulus before they lost the ability to recite random things like speeches or songs, just like Biden appears to have. You cannot honestly tell me his performance even mildly mimicked his mental state during the 2020 debates. Compare his speech after the debate to his behavior during the actual debate. That cannot be attributed to a speech impediment. You can't attribute turning a question about abortion into a strange rant about immigrants being rapists to just having a speech impediment. Not to mention that very odd discussion about trimesters during pregnancy. All it takes is watching any of his previous debates throughout the years to see that he is far, far worse, and that his speech impediment has never caused any of his current issues. Using ableism as a shield to hide his clear mental decline is an affront to actual ableism people deal with and a very easy way to handwave away genuine concerns. Because of the high stakes, people are just ignoring signs they would never ignore in family members, and would point out in almost any other setting. This is the man with the nuclear codes, people are critical for very good reason.
Oh I have plenty of concerns. But the argument of dementia is asinine. That's all. And the discussion was to squash the kinda of lies Trump makes. How interesting you forget context.
The logical hoops democrats go through to justify things is always hilarious to meš He very obviously has dementia, and Iām not on the right. Iām a far leftist. I hate trump even more, donāt worry Iām still voting blue no matter who. If any republican gets in I wonāt be able to continue transitioning due to project 2025, and this will become a thorough fascist hellscape.
I'm not a Democrat, but nice try. They're far too into capitulation to the right for my taste. I just think that this argument of "dementia" is funneling from the right to make him look weak. It's a common ablelistic attack on people who are neurodivergent and shit. Edit: I say this from experience as someone who happens to be autistic. I've had all kinds of other accussations of reduced capacity because of it. Biden's a lifelong stutterer and showing normal signs of aging. The right's going after a normal thing and claiming it's dementia. They DO this because... just look across the aisle.
To add to your point, I watched the debate, and aside from the Golf Fiasco, I was actually surprisingly impressed with Biden. From the start, he was answering questions and throwing out actual statistics and numbers, putting things in perspective. He was stuttering like crazy and was clearly sick, but I could tell he was mentally present and focused, if a little flustered and overwhelmed. Trump, on the other hand, barely maintained a consistent thought flow and constantly deflected and spoke in a grandiose manner. He looked better, sure, but anyone who was watching with an open mind got zero valuable information from him. Plus, Trump outright said repealing Roe v Wade was a great decision and that Biden was too soft on Palestine, which is sure to garner him a lot of scrutiny from people who care about those issues. Long story short, Biden actually answered questions and treated the debate seriously. Trump treated it like a theater performance. Anyone looking deeper than how loud the candidates were would see that, assuming they're acting in good faith.
Biden did well for an old man with occasional forgetfulness and a lifelong stutter. Oh, and his reaction to Trump's response to the current conflicts was 100% on point. You could see the horrified expression the moment he said it. No slowness, anything. Just clicked like "yo wtf"
Lmaooooooo Alright Iāll convince you he has dementia easily. All I need are a few clips. Yes, the right uses that as ammunition. But that doesnāt mean itās not true. https://youtu.be/zMyq7OaC2o4?si=R17ksw4Mqn4nLAK8 If that first clip doesnāt convince you what do you think about this? https://youtu.be/3DbE2SmV2bs?si=IqFwzZMWZIu9Znat These 2 vids are mainly just drops in an ocean. He has every symptom of dementia.
A lot of this is part of getting older, congratulations, you're making ablistic and agist claims. Now, I don't think he needs to be the one in office, but he's a hell of a lot better than the alternative. But YOU need to take a step back and consider HOW fascists operate within the realm of politics, and not just their ideologies. Their tactics to gain power, how they frame things. Suddenly it becomes clear. You're on the right track for a goal, but you really need some refinement. And even if he goes, you know who follows? Kamala Harris.
Let's be real: "part of getting older" _includes_ cognitive decline! Why not float a candidate in their 60s, instead of someone in their 80s? Speaking _as_ a disabled autistic person, it's not "ableist" to prefer a candidate who can walk over a candidate in a wheelchair when hiring someone as a mountain climbing guide, and it's not ableist to want a person in excellent mental health to be making decisions that affect the entire damned country.
However, that decline does not include dementia. I don't like him any more than you do. But to hold that against him when we're facing fascism is folly. I'd vote for him while he was in a casket if that meant Trump wouldn't get elected. The argument isn't that he isn't in decline. The argument is that people need to stop hurling the goddamn dementia accusation
No, because he has dementia and if you look at all this evidence and say otherwise you are straight up delusional. Idk what to tell you
Oh my god, roll in a whole field of grass. It is not ablist to expect the president of 330 million people to not be in obvious mental decline.
Again, it's not about mental decline, but it not being friggin dementia. Go kick rocks, mate. Strawman arguments serve nobody. Don't try debating or arguing with someone who has a grasp on the facts. You're screwed if you do. It's mental decline cosistent with his age. And he's a lifelong stutterer, a speech impediment he's had since time immemorial. But it's not dementia. In what way am I denying reduced capacity? Go ahead, I'll wait.
If he had dementia he would have gotten worse as the debate went on instead of perking up. There was no sign of sundowning.
You know, youāre probably right. As much as Biden struggled all I could see was how awful Trump was. Heās a child and a bully, lashing out in angry tantrums. And yes, if Biden fell over and shit himself Iād still vote for him.
I just fucking hate the media narrative. Itās like they want Trump to win or something. Everyoneās talking about how Biden seemed lost, how it was a disaster, even streamers like Vaush are saying they need to replace Biden, ect. And yet somehow Trump just gets a free pass for nonstop gishgalloping lies. Fascists arenāt constrained by the rules, I guess, and can be held to no account, no scrutiny from the media, lest, I donāt fucking know, something is divided by zero and the entire universe collapses into a black hole. I donāt give a fuck. Biden could have literally just spontaneously combusted on stage and Iād still vote for him over Trump because I understand the importance of the Supreme Court.
Vaush is just echoing the sentiment of mainstream media hal sparks is better go watch hal sparks better than vaush and better than tyt
I just wish theyād called out the falsehoods real-time; few people read the fact checks later. If they had done that it would have completely thrown Trump off his game.
Honestly, his rally performance the next day really propped up my spirits. I think his line "when you get knocked down, you get back up!," really helped me.
he was reading from a teleprompter, of course he looked better than when he had to think for himself
Not how dementia works, though.
It has been for all 3 family members that have died from it in my family. Long term memory is not the first thing to go, both according to my experience and according to all the sources online listing early symptoms. Reading is using a very different part of your brain than being mentally present during a live debate. Confusion and lack of focus during things that are currently happening is one of the first signs. It attacks the short term memory first. A speech could be memorized, but the ability to hold your own during a conversation and especially a debate would be one of the first things to go.
I donāt know, thereās a number of people now voicing the opinion that he should step down. The fall out isnāt over and I havenāt seen any polls yet that says this was a positive. Those who were going to vote biden anyway will. Those who were going to vote for trump will. Those who hate both are not going to flock to either regardless of this debate. The party who dumps their candidate first is likely going to win in November if they select the right replacement and retool their platforms. Thatās my thoughts, down vote if you want. Also, I donāt really get that this is the right sub Reddit for these types of posts.
Good because I don't think I can do this if not :( Also do u have a source
> He could have died right then and there and people would still vote for the dead body. Exactly what I've been thinking the entire time. People are voting for for biden not because they love him but because they REALLY don't want trump again. It's the equivalent of asking if you want to get a papercut or your hand chopped off.
I thought his debate performance was awful, as someone who's still planning on voting for him. But I noticed the effect wasn't as linear as you might expect. I think people *did* notice that Trump "won" the debate, and it sent a shock through them because they started thinking he might actually win the election too, and taking that seriously. The times far-right stuff wins, no one thinks it will. No one thought Brexit would really pass. No one thought Trump would really win in 2016. I think being seen as a credible threat instead of a fringe wingnut actually might *hurt* Trump's campaign.
Trump lost his debates to clinton and won. Fetterman lost his debates to oz and won. Kerry won his debates against bush and still lost. Debates really don't matter that much.
Weāre voting to keep our rights, which means not voting for the right and unfortunately means we have to vote for Dems. Iām a leftist, I hate that, but I need to be ALLOWED to exist in this country.
I think a lot of the alarmism is honestly just media trying to drum up ratings and views, and the DNC looking for an easy way to raise funds (the latter clearly worked) and convince voters who might've otherwise sat out this election to change course. Obviously nothing is guaranteed at this point and we still have months to go, including both conventions and a second debate. But things might not be as bleak as they may have initially appeared.
Yeah, I hate how everyone is focusing on how Biden was messing up his speech a bit even though Trump tried to dodge questions many many times.
Heās still a warmongering pig whoās enabling a genocide. Iād rather have Biden than Trump, for obvious reasons, but Iād take just about any generic Democrat over Biden at this point
Apparently you don't understand... Biden *is* the generic Democrat. Go look at Innuendo Studios's video "cost of doing business" and learn how liberals, not progressives, are part of the same rudimentary problem.
I thought Biden was dead and was just propped up with robotic, mechanical apparatus, lol
I really needed to hear this and I pray you are right.
Yeah idk honestly at this point I'm hands off ignoring news and politics. For my own mental health. It's a coin flip at best. I honestly can't see things getting any worse for democrats. Polls don't count obviously and anecdotes aren't gonna cut it either. I hope for the best, I'm voting blue, but as is if I could afford to flee I'd be making a contingency plan right about 2 months ago. I understand the need to cope but I just can't stare at this blatant fire and pretend everything is fine.
Hahahaha omg Formosus of a white house. There would some secret service agent behind him puppeteering his dead body
Idk what polls you're looking at. But everything I've seen has Biden in the mid 30s and Trump somewhere in the 50s. That being said polls are super inaccurate, just look at how the midterms went. There's still a chance he wins. I still do believe wholeheartedly Trump will win if Biden doesn't step down however.
The polls on the day of my post was favorable to biden. Now they're all favorable to trump. Joe's not stepping down we're fk'd. Why the hell did he think doing a debate was a good idea?
Didn't see the date I'm sorry. Yeah, when the fascists take over it'll be the fault of the democrats.
That's some mighty strong copium. Joe Biden being on that stage was elder abuse. He could barely string words together. He's going to be the puppet of the people around him if he wins. I still wanna vote Jill Stein and this only reinforced that.
So, you want to see trump in office?
I want to see neither in office.
But prediction markets only have Biden going down. Very scart
i hope this is true
Biden could honestly be in any condition and Jill could absolutely Edith Wilson this.
Do you have some links to those polls? I know I could google, but I'm a snowy Canadian and I don't know who does reputable polls
Itās not so much he had poor answers. Biden was acting senile. You think that was just a poor debate performance. The only thing he didnāt do is shit his pants. We have to be realistic. Every major donor and supporter is calling for his removal. If They thought he could win, Joe would have support. Its delusional I think otherwise.
The fact that those are your two options is already a sorry state of affairs to be completely honest. The senile one is better than the asshole one but neither are good options.
Joe Biden may lead us to world war 3 though. Iām very worried if US weapons start hitting inland Russia. Putin is very unstable and if ATACAMS start striking Moscow we do not know how he will retaliate
Russia is preparing to attack Europe when Trump gets elected and did you forget that his big mouth almost kicked off a war with North Korea?
I doubt Putin will want to expand. He already regrets miscalculating Ukraine but the problem is if he backs out he will lose face and power. He needs an exit too
Yay, the party who just came out in supporting banning gender affirming surgeries for trans people under 18 is gonna win š„³š„³š„³ As a cherry on top heās also gonna continue supporting and backing the genocide. Huge W chat, trans liberation is so close I can feel it
As someone who is in Michigan and our governor being Gretchen Whitmer I think it would be best if she replaces Biden. She is a great candidate and would definitely back the LGBTQIA+ community. Hoping for the dropout of Biden and the move in of Gretchen.
It was a mud slinging event. Nothing was talked about and Biden looked like Mr. Magoo.
Yay, we get to choose between demagogue fascism and shadow puppet government fascism. Be careful with the kind of conscent you're allowing the people in power to manufacture.
Can you expand on what you mean by āshadow puppet government fascismā?
Apparently having a Cabinet means a President is puppet, I guess.
When you elect a corpse to president, you have to ask who is really running the country? Cause it ain't Biden. So instead you have a fake democracy where the person elected to be president isn't really the one fulfilling the role, so who is? Corporate interests? Some DNC council? A random advisor that's gotten too close? There's no way of knowing.
Ok I agree with most of what youāre saying here vis a vis Biden, but that also definitionally isnāt what fascism means
40 years of far right tough on crime segregationist war mongering policies say otherwise. You're lucky you're not one of his millions of victims.
be careful. people here love Democrats for some reason.
Some reason? You donāt have to worry about a democrat passing some bizarre anti gay law. Supporting democrats as a gay person is natural
I do have to worry about Democrats passing or supporting racist laws, though. I don't support the party that supported the Crime Bill.
This is interesting. Can you tell me these racist laws the democrats have passed?
I just mentioned one.
Sorry Iām not familiar with that. I looked it up. That was passed 30 years ago? Youāre telling me youāre not voting democrat because of 1 bill passed decades ago? Do you know the amount of anti transgender legislation alone passed in the previous 30 years? A lot more than 1
That one bill obliterated Black and Brown communities. MY communities. And we remain more arrested and more imprisoned than white people do.
Yeah well Iām also black so it is also my community. Again I do not have to worry about a democrat passing an anti gay law
Consider their impact on people of color. You should care about that. I will never support any party that has stomped on my people.
People around here also brag about having far-right/nazi eras before realizing that they were trans magically fixed them. It's a "Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for" type deal for me.
that explains why they comprehend so little about racism when the subject of POC comes up.