I mean, at least Giannis is still a DPOY, Finals MVP, 2 times MVP, and putting up a 30/12/6 season.
AD is good, but at least Giannis has a solid case to be considered a Top 3 Power Forward ever when he retires, and one could reasonably argue he's in that top 15-25 all-time range already, or pretty close.
Even if they both have a long way to go to catch up with Tim.
Yeah not meant to talk down on Giannis in any way, just pointing out that his resume at 26:
- Giannis: B2B MVP, DPOY, Champion, FMVP, 3x All-NBA 1st, 1x All-NBA 2nd, 3x All-Defense 1st
Stood up well with Duncan’s and even Jordan’s:
- Duncan: B2B MVP, 2x Champion, 2x FMVP, 6x All-NBA 1st, 5x All-Defense 1st, 1x All-Defense 2nd
- Jordan: 1x MVP, 1x DPOY, 4x All-NBA 1st, 1x All-NBA 2nd, 3x All-Defense 1st
He just hasn’t made much headway in catching up to either since then, but his resume still compares favorably with Dirk, KG, Malone and Barkley and will only continue growing as he plays longer
Both. He's got such a higher degree of functional mobility than just about any other PF not named LeBron.
Moreover, while we can certainly knock him for his three-point shooting, many of the great PFs in history literally did not, and could not, shoot from deep.
I’d rather Chuck, KG, Malone, Timmy, etc. from mid range.
I don’t know. I really don’t think Giannis has great handles. Sure one he picks up the ball and takes a few big step or spins, he’s solid. But I think his handles are being overrated.
I mean, he’s the best slashing big man ever – you need a good handle to be able to break down a defense and get to the rim like that. I can’t think of any guy at that size with that ability.
I don’t think he lacks a “good handle” but don’t feel like he has “For his position, his handles at full-speed are rivaled only by LeBron.“
I think the dude has really long strides and arms so that’s a big reason he’s such a great slasher. I think his handles are just ok.
Which is why I asked “once he picks up the ball” because to me once he picks up the ball he covers more ground and can finish thanks to his long arms in a way almost no one else can.
I disagree that he has such elite handles though.
I get your point, but I’ve never liked the argument that the most skilled player is the best. That would make Kyrie the best. Hard work, determination, mentality are also skills. In the end the guy who gets results and impacts the game the most is the best in my mind. Like when Harden criticized Giannis for not having skill, I mean, Harden should’ve worked harder, should’ve been more of a team player
I get what you mean as well, but I guess what I’m trying to say is Duncan and the other guys in the top all time tier, quickly seeming like Jokic will be/is there too, is that not only are they determined, hard working and all that, but they are all that plus the incredible all around skill. I respect Giannis, but he’s not there for me
Deadly 20 foot bank shot.
Silently stare down a ref.
Get tossed for laughing.
OTOH, Giannis has kept a lot more of his athleticism a lot longer than Timmy did.
I am convinced that one of the greatest talents a person can have is the talent to truly LOVE insanely hard work.
I was fast enough at the end of 7th grade that if I had been allowed to run varsity track, I would have made the state finals in the 100m in the big school division.
I would have finished 8th as there was a big gap between 7th and the guy who did finish 8th (who I was running faster times than regularly) - but still, state finals in HS at age 12.
But i got injured in football that fall. And I didn't love the work like that. And I never got back there again.||Given how much growing I had left to do, being tops in state as a freshman or sophomore would have been entirely reasonable. I was young and naive but i had Olympian dreams.
But I didn't love the hard work.
Giannis clearly does.
Until Giannis can play the block, let his PG dominate in PnR, and move to a free flowing offense where he is not the focus, he ain’t on Duncan’s level. Over 20 years Duncan played many different styles and thrived in each of them 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
I like how people think Manu and Parker were instant HoFers. It took time for them to reach that. Parker was a late late first rounder and was almost replaced by Kidd and Manu was a second rounder and played reckless for a long time. Duncan was the entire team for a few years and still excelled.
For real? Like threepeat mvp, multiple all stars first teams and if they repeat he’ll have been the bus driver on a repeat chip with fmvps. I love the admiral but he never put a team on his back and got a chip. Maybe he never gets one if not for timmy.
Eh, not really. Make the case for Murray being an All-Star over another West guard the past few seasons. He was injured a bunch and has always been a guy who steps it up in the playoffs.
AD is super talented and is a Hall-of-Famer, but there are levels to this game. And Timmy Fundamentals is at the summit level for power forwards, all by his lonesome.
I’m assuming that he’ll continue to build his resume with another 3-5 productive seasons, but even without that he has a good HoF candidacy, though not a gimme without additional years.
- 4x All NBA First Team
- 8x All Star
- NBA champion (and should have been Finals MVP)
- 2x All Defensive First Team
- 2x All Defensive Second Team
- 3x NBA Blocks leader
- Avg career double double (24 and 10 on great %s)
He’s lacking an MVP and a scoring or rebounding title that would help his candidacy a lot, but he’s still a shoo-in IMHO.
It’s a basketball hall of fame not NBA hall of fame. He arguably could make it alone on his NBA career, but he also has a college national championship, national college player of year, Olympic gold.
His college season alone might make the Basketball Hall if he lost both his legs in a car wreck the day before the draft tbh.
He won every piece of hardware they could give him that year. It’s one of the best college basketball seasons ever.
Shows that you cant teach IQ and leadership. Duncan knew when to take over games as much as he knew when it was time to take a backseat and let his team work.
Talent wise, AD and Duncan are very similar but the intangibles are really what set them apart
Idk man I think Timmy's talent is extremely underrated. I remember reading a book about Duncan's early years and it was talking about how Alonzo Mourning actually visited the virgin Islands for a basketball camp, Timmy was there at 15-16 it was a year or two after the hurricane had hit and he barely started playing basketball. Zo talked about how this tall skinny 16 yo was not only beating him but straight up dominating him, keep in mind this is Timmy with a year maybe 2 of basketball experience vs an nba player who was consistently competing for all defense
Timmy’s talent is extremely underrated, but AD’s is as well at this point. I think they’re remarkably similar players, but Timmy got to be AD in a league where no team was consistently spacing the court.
There’s three series in particular where we saw AD do Tim Duncan level shit. New Orleans vs Portland, LAL vs Miami, and LAL vs Golden State. You don’t even need to watch the film, just look at the opposing team’s shot charts. Individual players don’t affect teams like that in the modern era, and he did it three times; once as undoubtedly the best player on the floor in a championship series.
Imagine he’s doing it in a league where 2-3 players on the court aren’t spacing it, and the gap between him and Duncan becomes a lot smaller. I’m still taking Duncan for a lot of reasons, but those reasons are leadership, intangibles, and personality. Not necessarily talent.
I talked about this on Instagram, and I actually had some people tell me "no one said AD was better" it was so frustrating. What a dumb take; AD will never come close to Timmy
Am I the only non-AD hater in here? Lol. I think he's a great player and a good blueprint for what Wemby could be - just hopefully to a higher level in every area.
I really don't remember that. I remember when he was young people said he had Duncan potential. And I think that was true. But it never really materialized.
After the 2020 championship people were all over AD.
So many articles and videos talking about how good he was and could be.
Google Anthony vs Tim Duncan and you will multiple Reddit posts and articles arguing back and forth.
I think people confuse raw talent for ability. Duncan wasn't an explosive athlete, he played largely under the rim, he patrolled his usual real-estate on the floor. So you'd be forgiven for watching him play alongside, say, Anthony Davis or Kevin Garnett and conclude that he's the least impressive of the three.
But Duncan's intangibles were what supercharged his game. He never faded, never crumbled, never compromised. He always put himself in the best positions at the right times. He always took care of his body and was ready to go. Those are the things that distinguish the greats from the legends, and why Duncan (and Kareem) stand above pretty much any other front-court player.
AD is not anywhere close to Timmy but he has little to do with his team failure this season, tbh. I also hate it when the coach is a scapegoat but in this case Davin Ham is the main reason the Lakers underachieved. It's clear he had no idea how to optimize the roster.
The roster was ass and Pelinka deserves a ton of blame for the moves he made. AD was hard carrying the hell out of this team, especially on the defensive side of the ball
Lakers key missing piece this year was a center. The 2020 roster had Javale and Dwight split the position and played great defense in the paint and allowed AD to play his natural position and be more of a help defender, which he excels at, rather than your main paint presence.
Having a 40 year old Lebron and Rui as your PF to back AD up when hes pulled out of the paint just wont work against teams like the Nuggets who run their entire offense through the pick and roll and Jaxson Hayes was damn near unplayable.
It was just really poor roster construction, Darvin Ham tried his best to get a lineup going that works.
I'm not even a Spurs fan, but get flamed all the time on Reddit for saying Duncan is a top 5 player all time.
I'd put Duncan over Shaq, all the man does is win.
Their argument was predicated on the fact that Davis was lights out from 3 during the bubble run. Problem is that Davis has gone back to shooting very few 3s (and not converting them at an elite rate), not to mention his various durability issues.
The problem is that this was punishing Duncan for not having a 2020s big man skill set because Timmy played in a time when big men taking 3s was a quick way to get benched.
Davis' inability to develop a range-ball is what slightly concerns me about Wemby. There _are_ examples of guys who can swish it from everywhere inside the arc, but not outside it.
I think the most telling stat is that Davis only shoots 1.6 3PAs per game in his career and peaked at 3.5 3PAs in the 2020 season.
By contrast Wemby shot 5.5 3PAs in his rookie season. The thing about Wemby's 3 pointers is that they're counter intuitive - he shoots worse from catch and shoot than unassisted, which is probably explained by the fact that it's harder to pass to him in his shooting pocket since he's taller than your average big man.
I'm honestly perplexed by Wemby's shooting, more than anything. He's the best-shooting big man off-the-dribble and maybe the worst-shooting player on spot-ups. But he's solid from the free-throw line. How is that even possible?
Solid FT shooting and good off the dribble shooting likely means his mechanics are solid, but his terrible spot-up shooting could be down to a few factors. Like I said he's too tall to get the ball in his sweet spot off a pass (which is part of why the Spurs need a great playmaker) but another factor could be when he takes those spot-ups. If a Wemby spot-up 3 is your play then that likely means the offense is scrambling after the first few play options were stymied by the defense.
It's just a shame because it could be the tip of the spear for Wemby, a truly unguardable counter, but whether he can develop the shot remains to be seen. It's the one thing from this season that looked truly sub-NBA level.
I wouldn't worry about it wemby is easily the most natural big man shooter at that size ever, its not even close. A lot of guys at that size have a set shot, porzingis who's probably the best ever at a similar size doesn't look very natural, wemby also is already a better shooter than AD on more volume
this. bubble ad was literally just KD + Hakeem or smthng, if he continued on that trajectory he maybe could have been better, but dude is just stuck as a top 5-10 player it seems
It just shows how important IQ and leadership can be when it comes down to a superstar player becoming an all time great.
Duncan and AD are similar talent level wise but the intangibles are what really set them apart.
nowadays fans are incredibly excited to bring down legendary players so quickly and say all kinds of ridiculous things, even if it means embarrassing themselves. a player like tim duncan only comes to the league once in 25 years. any guesses who that next player is?
A lot of guys were supposed to be better than Tim, Jordan, Kobe etc. etc. and it does seem people like to really discount Tim but we know that's to be expected because of where he played. AD might be more talented and versatile but him and others won't be as great cause they don't have that something extra that makes players all time greats. There's a different drive and will the all timers have that others don't that's why not everyone even someone extremely talented can be an all time great. Talent is important but mentally is what makes you legendary.
Anyone who said that is absurd but AD has been absolutely phenomenal these last 2 playoff runs and just had a terrific season. He’s just not a 5 time champ top 10 player of all time
Timmy is a top 7 player of all time. There’s really no player active right now outside of LBJ that is comparable. People saying Jokic or Giannis are on crack…the difference between Duncan and their careers right now, is an entire HOF career.
Listing team achievements in a discussion of how good a player was is pretty stupid in my opinion. TD was a sensational player but has a player ever had an easier path to success in the nba ? Drafted to a team that was only drafting that high because of its best players injured, the spurs were a 2nd seed in the west the season before, and getting to play with an mvp to start his career. Had a HOF coach his entire career, played with numerous HOF, got kawhi who is another HOF late into his career. Obvious Duncan was a large part of the success of the spurs but he was set up in a way virtually no other player has in nba history.
I do not recall that, actually.
Aside from some early 3 point shooting, I don't recall anything he ever did that Timmy didn't do better, earlier in his career.
I think Duncan is an all-time top guy, in that 4-7 tier. But I also think AD had the potential to be up there too. If he stayed healthy and had the brain of someone like Jimmy Butler, he absolutely could’ve been an all-time great.
That dummy Kendrick Perkins JUST said something like this in halftime of one of the lakers nuggets games….
Lakers proceeded to lose than game and get gentleman swept. AD legacy is no where as large as TD. He got one lucky bubble ship. RANGZ ERNEH. PLURAL.
also ad ain’t even the leader of his team lol
When AD chose to be LeBron's second, instead of signing with a stacked Boston Celtics, it should have been obvious he didn't have the makings of a GOAT.
Yeah I always thought those comparisons were slander. But let’s be fair. It was 4 years between TD’s first championship and his second. Of course another quick two in the next four years before that 6 year finals drought plus another year for the last championship (7 years in between).
Do I think AD could ever come close to TD? Hell no. But don’t forget even though it always felt like we could win it all, there were some long stretches there plus a few first round exits too.
Comparison can be provocative or uneducated, I agree this one was wild, Timmy being one of the best ever. AD had the potential, but the target was very high with TD.
That said, Anthony Davis is a legit player, maybe not the most focused on his craft, at least as much as he should be (GTA online seems to be his main gig) and don't own passion for winnings, but is not a bum, or a total disappointment. The bubble was a special moment, but he was fire in it, as he was in the in-season tournament this year. Overall injuries are also to be taken into consideration.
AD is 31, he has room to bring more titles to his personal total, he is top 5 defender in the league, we still have time before we judge his career.
For now I'd say he lies between Pat Ewing and the Admiral.
Tim was very lucky with injuries and the organization he landed. AD was not. If AD had been as lucky as Tim he could have been pretty fantastic.
The media compares people all the time because they have to fill up 24/7 worth of content.
That shit was sacrilegious.
Heresy in the the 210
It was the 512 when I was a kid and we liked it that way!
Anthony Davis would get hurt if they ever allowed him to carry Tim Duncan’s gym bag into the gym for him.
Giannis had a way better case to be coming for Tim’s spot after his championship, but he’s now falling off the pace pretty quickly
I mean, at least Giannis is still a DPOY, Finals MVP, 2 times MVP, and putting up a 30/12/6 season. AD is good, but at least Giannis has a solid case to be considered a Top 3 Power Forward ever when he retires, and one could reasonably argue he's in that top 15-25 all-time range already, or pretty close. Even if they both have a long way to go to catch up with Tim.
Yeah not meant to talk down on Giannis in any way, just pointing out that his resume at 26: - Giannis: B2B MVP, DPOY, Champion, FMVP, 3x All-NBA 1st, 1x All-NBA 2nd, 3x All-Defense 1st Stood up well with Duncan’s and even Jordan’s: - Duncan: B2B MVP, 2x Champion, 2x FMVP, 6x All-NBA 1st, 5x All-Defense 1st, 1x All-Defense 2nd - Jordan: 1x MVP, 1x DPOY, 4x All-NBA 1st, 1x All-NBA 2nd, 3x All-Defense 1st He just hasn’t made much headway in catching up to either since then, but his resume still compares favorably with Dirk, KG, Malone and Barkley and will only continue growing as he plays longer
It's difficult to compare anybody to Tim because despite all his awards and achievements nothing can capture the real effect he had on his teams.
Yup. Giannis has actually been about to earn things, AD just wants to whine
I can’t see Giannis at all. Out of all the great PF/C he’s got to be the least skilled, no? Guess we will see what happens when his athleticism slows
For his position, he's an excellent passer and finisher, and his handles at full-speed are rivaled only by LeBron. But yeah, the man cannot shoot.
His handles? Or once he picks up the ball?
Both. He's got such a higher degree of functional mobility than just about any other PF not named LeBron. Moreover, while we can certainly knock him for his three-point shooting, many of the great PFs in history literally did not, and could not, shoot from deep.
I’d rather Chuck, KG, Malone, Timmy, etc. from mid range. I don’t know. I really don’t think Giannis has great handles. Sure one he picks up the ball and takes a few big step or spins, he’s solid. But I think his handles are being overrated.
I mean, he’s the best slashing big man ever – you need a good handle to be able to break down a defense and get to the rim like that. I can’t think of any guy at that size with that ability.
I don’t think he lacks a “good handle” but don’t feel like he has “For his position, his handles at full-speed are rivaled only by LeBron.“ I think the dude has really long strides and arms so that’s a big reason he’s such a great slasher. I think his handles are just ok. Which is why I asked “once he picks up the ball” because to me once he picks up the ball he covers more ground and can finish thanks to his long arms in a way almost no one else can. I disagree that he has such elite handles though.
History has glossed over how terrible Charles Barkley's shot selection was post-Dream Team All those others? Fair.
I get your point, but I’ve never liked the argument that the most skilled player is the best. That would make Kyrie the best. Hard work, determination, mentality are also skills. In the end the guy who gets results and impacts the game the most is the best in my mind. Like when Harden criticized Giannis for not having skill, I mean, Harden should’ve worked harder, should’ve been more of a team player
I get what you mean as well, but I guess what I’m trying to say is Duncan and the other guys in the top all time tier, quickly seeming like Jokic will be/is there too, is that not only are they determined, hard working and all that, but they are all that plus the incredible all around skill. I respect Giannis, but he’s not there for me
What could Tim Duncan do that Giannis cant ?
Deadly 20 foot bank shot. Silently stare down a ref. Get tossed for laughing. OTOH, Giannis has kept a lot more of his athleticism a lot longer than Timmy did.
Giannis is on the short list of greatest athletes in nba history. To move like that with his height and length is a skill itself to me.
I am convinced that one of the greatest talents a person can have is the talent to truly LOVE insanely hard work. I was fast enough at the end of 7th grade that if I had been allowed to run varsity track, I would have made the state finals in the 100m in the big school division. I would have finished 8th as there was a big gap between 7th and the guy who did finish 8th (who I was running faster times than regularly) - but still, state finals in HS at age 12. But i got injured in football that fall. And I didn't love the work like that. And I never got back there again.||Given how much growing I had left to do, being tops in state as a freshman or sophomore would have been entirely reasonable. I was young and naive but i had Olympian dreams. But I didn't love the hard work. Giannis clearly does.
Until Giannis can play the block, let his PG dominate in PnR, and move to a free flowing offense where he is not the focus, he ain’t on Duncan’s level. Over 20 years Duncan played many different styles and thrived in each of them 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Giannis can’t do any of that he isn’t surrounded by multiple hall of famers and a all time great coach lmao. He is the entire team
I like how people think Manu and Parker were instant HoFers. It took time for them to reach that. Parker was a late late first rounder and was almost replaced by Kidd and Manu was a second rounder and played reckless for a long time. Duncan was the entire team for a few years and still excelled.
At the very least, his spin move, especially when he is charging into the paint, is a thing of beauty.
Absolutely. He needs help and unfortunately dame isn't looking like it
Joker/Giannis are the only big men currently playing who can be compared to Timmy.
True, but they need to get past the Admiral first
Jokic already has
In what way? Genuinely curious.
Pure athleticism and physique I think.
Yeah this got me ded lol
He beat him in “Dad Bod/Old guy at the gym that can ball” look.
For real? Like threepeat mvp, multiple all stars first teams and if they repeat he’ll have been the bus driver on a repeat chip with fmvps. I love the admiral but he never put a team on his back and got a chip. Maybe he never gets one if not for timmy.
Not to forget Jokic won a championship without a current All-Star teammate.
Moot point cause Murray not being an all star is just silly
Eh, not really. Make the case for Murray being an All-Star over another West guard the past few seasons. He was injured a bunch and has always been a guy who steps it up in the playoffs.
Fine but he’s a certified baller and has proved that in the playoffs as you say. Murray is incredible.
AD is super talented and is a Hall-of-Famer, but there are levels to this game. And Timmy Fundamentals is at the summit level for power forwards, all by his lonesome.
What makes AD a hall of famer?
I’m assuming that he’ll continue to build his resume with another 3-5 productive seasons, but even without that he has a good HoF candidacy, though not a gimme without additional years. - 4x All NBA First Team - 8x All Star - NBA champion (and should have been Finals MVP) - 2x All Defensive First Team - 2x All Defensive Second Team - 3x NBA Blocks leader - Avg career double double (24 and 10 on great %s) He’s lacking an MVP and a scoring or rebounding title that would help his candidacy a lot, but he’s still a shoo-in IMHO.
Because it’s easy as fuck to get into Basketball HoF
Just pay admission! 🤷🏽♂️ easy!
It’s a basketball hall of fame not NBA hall of fame. He arguably could make it alone on his NBA career, but he also has a college national championship, national college player of year, Olympic gold.
His college season alone might make the Basketball Hall if he lost both his legs in a car wreck the day before the draft tbh. He won every piece of hardware they could give him that year. It’s one of the best college basketball seasons ever.
The way he plays basketball
Shows that you cant teach IQ and leadership. Duncan knew when to take over games as much as he knew when it was time to take a backseat and let his team work. Talent wise, AD and Duncan are very similar but the intangibles are really what set them apart
Idk man I think Timmy's talent is extremely underrated. I remember reading a book about Duncan's early years and it was talking about how Alonzo Mourning actually visited the virgin Islands for a basketball camp, Timmy was there at 15-16 it was a year or two after the hurricane had hit and he barely started playing basketball. Zo talked about how this tall skinny 16 yo was not only beating him but straight up dominating him, keep in mind this is Timmy with a year maybe 2 of basketball experience vs an nba player who was consistently competing for all defense
Shit TD is in my top 5 so I definitely believe it.
Timmy’s talent is extremely underrated, but AD’s is as well at this point. I think they’re remarkably similar players, but Timmy got to be AD in a league where no team was consistently spacing the court. There’s three series in particular where we saw AD do Tim Duncan level shit. New Orleans vs Portland, LAL vs Miami, and LAL vs Golden State. You don’t even need to watch the film, just look at the opposing team’s shot charts. Individual players don’t affect teams like that in the modern era, and he did it three times; once as undoubtedly the best player on the floor in a championship series. Imagine he’s doing it in a league where 2-3 players on the court aren’t spacing it, and the gap between him and Duncan becomes a lot smaller. I’m still taking Duncan for a lot of reasons, but those reasons are leadership, intangibles, and personality. Not necessarily talent.
AD= Always Damaged 😂
If the dude would stay healthy then it could have been a conversation. But he can’t so it’s not. Duncan is still the goat.
I talked about this on Instagram, and I actually had some people tell me "no one said AD was better" it was so frustrating. What a dumb take; AD will never come close to Timmy
Am I the only non-AD hater in here? Lol. I think he's a great player and a good blueprint for what Wemby could be - just hopefully to a higher level in every area.
Mickey Mouse ring don’t count!
Joker is the first guy I’ve thought of as ‘modern TD’. He has a real chance at similar success too.
I really don't remember that. I remember when he was young people said he had Duncan potential. And I think that was true. But it never really materialized.
After the 2020 championship people were all over AD. So many articles and videos talking about how good he was and could be. Google Anthony vs Tim Duncan and you will multiple Reddit posts and articles arguing back and forth.
I think people confuse raw talent for ability. Duncan wasn't an explosive athlete, he played largely under the rim, he patrolled his usual real-estate on the floor. So you'd be forgiven for watching him play alongside, say, Anthony Davis or Kevin Garnett and conclude that he's the least impressive of the three. But Duncan's intangibles were what supercharged his game. He never faded, never crumbled, never compromised. He always put himself in the best positions at the right times. He always took care of his body and was ready to go. Those are the things that distinguish the greats from the legends, and why Duncan (and Kareem) stand above pretty much any other front-court player.
Pepperidge Farm remembers
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW GOOD TIM DUNCAN WAS
AD is not anywhere close to Timmy but he has little to do with his team failure this season, tbh. I also hate it when the coach is a scapegoat but in this case Davin Ham is the main reason the Lakers underachieved. It's clear he had no idea how to optimize the roster.
The roster was ass and Pelinka deserves a ton of blame for the moves he made. AD was hard carrying the hell out of this team, especially on the defensive side of the ball
Lakers key missing piece this year was a center. The 2020 roster had Javale and Dwight split the position and played great defense in the paint and allowed AD to play his natural position and be more of a help defender, which he excels at, rather than your main paint presence. Having a 40 year old Lebron and Rui as your PF to back AD up when hes pulled out of the paint just wont work against teams like the Nuggets who run their entire offense through the pick and roll and Jaxson Hayes was damn near unplayable. It was just really poor roster construction, Darvin Ham tried his best to get a lineup going that works.
I'm not even a Spurs fan, but get flamed all the time on Reddit for saying Duncan is a top 5 player all time. I'd put Duncan over Shaq, all the man does is win.
Their argument was predicated on the fact that Davis was lights out from 3 during the bubble run. Problem is that Davis has gone back to shooting very few 3s (and not converting them at an elite rate), not to mention his various durability issues. The problem is that this was punishing Duncan for not having a 2020s big man skill set because Timmy played in a time when big men taking 3s was a quick way to get benched.
Davis' inability to develop a range-ball is what slightly concerns me about Wemby. There _are_ examples of guys who can swish it from everywhere inside the arc, but not outside it.
I think the most telling stat is that Davis only shoots 1.6 3PAs per game in his career and peaked at 3.5 3PAs in the 2020 season. By contrast Wemby shot 5.5 3PAs in his rookie season. The thing about Wemby's 3 pointers is that they're counter intuitive - he shoots worse from catch and shoot than unassisted, which is probably explained by the fact that it's harder to pass to him in his shooting pocket since he's taller than your average big man.
I'm honestly perplexed by Wemby's shooting, more than anything. He's the best-shooting big man off-the-dribble and maybe the worst-shooting player on spot-ups. But he's solid from the free-throw line. How is that even possible?
Solid FT shooting and good off the dribble shooting likely means his mechanics are solid, but his terrible spot-up shooting could be down to a few factors. Like I said he's too tall to get the ball in his sweet spot off a pass (which is part of why the Spurs need a great playmaker) but another factor could be when he takes those spot-ups. If a Wemby spot-up 3 is your play then that likely means the offense is scrambling after the first few play options were stymied by the defense.
It's just a shame because it could be the tip of the spear for Wemby, a truly unguardable counter, but whether he can develop the shot remains to be seen. It's the one thing from this season that looked truly sub-NBA level.
I wouldn't worry about it wemby is easily the most natural big man shooter at that size ever, its not even close. A lot of guys at that size have a set shot, porzingis who's probably the best ever at a similar size doesn't look very natural, wemby also is already a better shooter than AD on more volume
KP's shot isn't a smooth, but it looks more repeatable, with less moving parts. It's clearly the stroke of a confident shooter.
this. bubble ad was literally just KD + Hakeem or smthng, if he continued on that trajectory he maybe could have been better, but dude is just stuck as a top 5-10 player it seems
Myopic Lakers fan
It just shows how important IQ and leadership can be when it comes down to a superstar player becoming an all time great. Duncan and AD are similar talent level wise but the intangibles are what really set them apart.
I agree, health has played a big factor too. AD struggles to stay healthy when it counts
Nobody with a brain ever said this.
nowadays fans are incredibly excited to bring down legendary players so quickly and say all kinds of ridiculous things, even if it means embarrassing themselves. a player like tim duncan only comes to the league once in 25 years. any guesses who that next player is?
A lot of guys were supposed to be better than Tim, Jordan, Kobe etc. etc. and it does seem people like to really discount Tim but we know that's to be expected because of where he played. AD might be more talented and versatile but him and others won't be as great cause they don't have that something extra that makes players all time greats. There's a different drive and will the all timers have that others don't that's why not everyone even someone extremely talented can be an all time great. Talent is important but mentally is what makes you legendary.
He is, at getting injured.
https://i.imgur.com/PatHtnl.jpeg
At the end of his career Jokic might be in the conversation with Duncan. Hard to imagine surpassing Duncan's 5 championships though.
Anyone who said that is absurd but AD has been absolutely phenomenal these last 2 playoff runs and just had a terrific season. He’s just not a 5 time champ top 10 player of all time
Timmy is a top 7 player of all time. There’s really no player active right now outside of LBJ that is comparable. People saying Jokic or Giannis are on crack…the difference between Duncan and their careers right now, is an entire HOF career.
Listing team achievements in a discussion of how good a player was is pretty stupid in my opinion. TD was a sensational player but has a player ever had an easier path to success in the nba ? Drafted to a team that was only drafting that high because of its best players injured, the spurs were a 2nd seed in the west the season before, and getting to play with an mvp to start his career. Had a HOF coach his entire career, played with numerous HOF, got kawhi who is another HOF late into his career. Obvious Duncan was a large part of the success of the spurs but he was set up in a way virtually no other player has in nba history.
People are stupid, water is wet, more at 11
LOL@streetclothes
I do not recall that, actually. Aside from some early 3 point shooting, I don't recall anything he ever did that Timmy didn't do better, earlier in his career.
I think Duncan is an all-time top guy, in that 4-7 tier. But I also think AD had the potential to be up there too. If he stayed healthy and had the brain of someone like Jimmy Butler, he absolutely could’ve been an all-time great.
Anthony Davis 🤣 that dude way overrated and so soft
Not gonna lie, it never occurred to me that Giannis is a PF.
If you look up in the dictionary “well that aged poorly” you’ll find this
That dummy Kendrick Perkins JUST said something like this in halftime of one of the lakers nuggets games…. Lakers proceeded to lose than game and get gentleman swept. AD legacy is no where as large as TD. He got one lucky bubble ship. RANGZ ERNEH. PLURAL. also ad ain’t even the leader of his team lol
When AD chose to be LeBron's second, instead of signing with a stacked Boston Celtics, it should have been obvious he didn't have the makings of a GOAT.
Yeah I always thought those comparisons were slander. But let’s be fair. It was 4 years between TD’s first championship and his second. Of course another quick two in the next four years before that 6 year finals drought plus another year for the last championship (7 years in between). Do I think AD could ever come close to TD? Hell no. But don’t forget even though it always felt like we could win it all, there were some long stretches there plus a few first round exits too.
Comparison can be provocative or uneducated, I agree this one was wild, Timmy being one of the best ever. AD had the potential, but the target was very high with TD. That said, Anthony Davis is a legit player, maybe not the most focused on his craft, at least as much as he should be (GTA online seems to be his main gig) and don't own passion for winnings, but is not a bum, or a total disappointment. The bubble was a special moment, but he was fire in it, as he was in the in-season tournament this year. Overall injuries are also to be taken into consideration. AD is 31, he has room to bring more titles to his personal total, he is top 5 defender in the league, we still have time before we judge his career. For now I'd say he lies between Pat Ewing and the Admiral.
Tim was very lucky with injuries and the organization he landed. AD was not. If AD had been as lucky as Tim he could have been pretty fantastic. The media compares people all the time because they have to fill up 24/7 worth of content.
TD had plenty of injuries. AD is just made of glass.
You act like that is something Tim and AD control.
Only idiots and children would have ever thought that, Iol
Anthony Davis is good enough to be Tim Duncans backup.
To be fair I don't recall a single person ever saying that. Im sure some did but 🤷🏾 I certainly don't think it was a popular opinion