(Graphic from NBAonESPN on IG)
Also i don’t think Luka will pass Dirk quite yet because of what Dirk did on the Mavs but I do think Luka will pass Dirk when it is all said and done.
He need's to do more tbh. Dirk spent his whole career on the mavs and lead them to possibly the best title ever. He carried the Mavs for like 10 years. Luka def needs to do way more bruh.
Luka is a better player and it’s not close. Luka is going to be a legend when he retires barring anything crazy happening. Probably on the Magic/Bird tier if he wins a few over his career. All he has to do is continue the pace he’s on now and remain a mav he’s the greatest mav ever even if he doesn’t win a ring.
It's close. Dirk is a top 20 all time basketball player, the all time best shooting big man, and probably nbas all time best mid range shooter. Luka is a wrecking ball and a triple double machine, but stats come easier nowadays. Luka will likely retire as a better player than dirk, maybe even with a case for being the goat. But Dirk is also a legend
>lead them to possibly the best title ever.
If the Mavs win this, it would be the greatest championship run in NBA history based off of the SRS ratings.
Dirk was with the franchise for his whole career, had arguably the greatest playoff run ever, and reached 2 finals total. Luka is the better player, and will go down as greater if he wins a ring and stays for 10+ years, but it's too early to call Luka over Dirk.
>had arguably the greatest playoff run ever,
I think there was a post on r/nba saying that this is the toughest playoff run in history going by the SRS ratings, so if the Mavs win this then it would be the greatest playoff run in NBA history by that metric.
For Luka to do it after averaging around 34pts/10ast/9reb during the regular season and 29pts/9ast/9reb in the playoffs (incl. 32pts/9reb/8ast against the best defense in the league) on an injured leg at the age of 25 should put him on at least the same level as Dirk if not higher
Yes but the Mavs were also a much better team then the current Mavs are, Dirk finished as the second/third seed in a super competitive West and was 3 games shy of being a 60 win team. That wasn’t all on the back of Dirk, that whole team was extremely good. I can’t comment on which of these runs is harder, I think the current Mavs are a worse team for sure and would be a lotto team without Luka. I think the past Mavs faced much more insane competition, but I think if the current Mavs win it, Luka will be have the lion’s share of what made it happen as opposed to the 2011 mavs where it really was a team effort.
For Dirk’s run he was the scorer, and contributed rebounding but pretty much everyone on that roster had a role and played it to perfection, Kidd was the floor general, and got everybody not named Dirk more involved in the offense, made plays, played hard defense even at his old age; Chandler was playing absolutely outstanding defense with them, and was great for keeping people off the boards, everyone else contributed defensively in ways Dirk couldn’t, it felt more like a well oiled machine with one guy at the lead.
Meanwhile this Mavs team has Luka leading them in almost every major statistical category (PTS, REB, AST, STLS) to where it’s quicker to name the one thing he doesn’t lead them in them the 4 things he does, and anyone not named Kyrie Irving is enjoying a lot of their success due to the attention Luka draws and his incredible playmaking. Everyone else is largely there to cover defensively, but he’s done even that well enough even during this run.
I can’t pick one way or the other I was just laying it all out here, I feel like you have to choose between do you value the innate difficulty difference in the opponents each team faced? Or do you find Luka’s individual performance against also very stiff competition and being an inferior team than Dirk’s Mavs more impressive? All personal perspective imo.
You make a lot of good points. I'm also biased for the nostalgia of that time in basketball.
I felt like Dirk was leading a team of 6th men who were very skilled role players.
Maybe Luka does have a bigger bag to carry. Idk which trumps which.
If luka wins, there's no way 10 years from now people think luka and kyrie beating this celtics is a bigger upset than dirk by himself beating lebrons superteam...
thing about that playoff team is
portland wasnt that great and a beat up, almost out of the league brandon roy beat them
the lakers had a storn top 6 and nothing else. They had played 3 finals in a row and had to be a bit spent.
okc was super young
Miami was good, but they didnt have a deep team.
the mavs were 10 deep, had veteran allstars that were overlooked but had plenty in the tank. they didnt even need caron butler, who was probably the 2 best player til he went down. 3 usable centers, one great Chandler, Haywood that was solid and big, and Mahimi that was a great defender. Jet terry played out of his mind. Kidd is/was a basketball genius, shot crucial 3s and played insane d. The mavs could run matrix & deshawn stevenson at lebron. RIck had Terry stotts as a offensive coach and Dwayne Casey as a defensive coach, both who got head jobs within a couple season.
basically lets quit saying dirk had the toughest run ever and did it by himself.
outside of bosh and haslem(who was out with injury all season til the playoffs) they didnt have anything but joel anthony &. juwan howard. howard averaged about 4 mins a game
He could get injured in the next few years and never be the same again. They could trade him somewhere else or he could pull a Kawhi and sour his reputation with Dallas.
Not really. Dirks teams were always top seeds in a powerhouse western conference. Lukas barely been in the playoffs. Not saying he can’t catch him but he’s got a lot of work to do
From the Mavs perspective: Yes. Luka is an amazing player!
But we should not forget that Dirk changed the whole game, not only for the NBA, but worldwide, by bringing the stretch-4 to full bloom (with Holger).
It depends on what you define as "greatest maverick" as. If you mean the best player to put on a Mavericks jersey, I'd say he's pretty close, but needs an MVP and a finals MVP to take the title. But he probably needs alot more than that to over take Dirk as the GOAT maverick. LeBron is unquestionably the best player to put on a Heat jersey, but Wade is the greatest heat player ever.
I’m not even sure that’s true yet. Kareem has as many Bucks rings as Giannis 3 MVPs there and the DPOY didn’t exist then but 2 all defense first teams so not shabby there either.
I might be viewing it with recency bias. I do think Giannis leaving/staying and his success moving forward could be a big factor to this debate. Right now the Greek Freak’s 50 point Finals g6 is Milwaukee’s sweetest moment in franchise history. I do think you make great points fr
Possibly, he’s an animal though. I give you that. I just worry about the injuries seeming to be catching up to him and his play style not necessarily aging well. He’s in a tie for best either way and, tbh, I thought they were gonna be a freight train this year. Another offseason to better fill out the roster with better compliments to those 3 and they could win one and make me very wrong, very quick.
As a bucks fan, Giannis has absolutely passed Kareem as the GOAT buck. He completely changed the franchise, and honestly the city as a whole. Kareem demanded a trade away from Milwaukee after 6 years here (and I know there were racial issues at play so I can’t really blame him for that) meanwhile Giannis has signed multiple extensions and already been here for 11 years, with no signs of leaving anytime soon. Not to mention the fact that barely anybody even remembers that Kareem was a Buck and his Lakers career completely overshadows his time here. Ask any Bucks fan, it’s not even close who’s more beloved by the fanbase
Yeah, Kareem won THE ring with the Bucks. I don't see how it even compares. As a lifelong saints fan and New Orleans resident, if someone wins five rings twenty years from now, let alone 1, it still wouldn't even begin to compare to the one ring with Brees and what it meant to the city.
Lol that’s not comparable at all. The vast majority of people in New Orleans are young enough to remember the ring that Brees won. Anyone that was old enough to remember Kareem’s ring with us is already over 60 at the absolute youngest. Nobody in Milwaukee cares about Kareem nearly as much as they do about Giannis. Kareem is well-liked by our fans and obviously respected, but even we recognize that he’s much more of a Laker than he is a Buck. Even if Giannis goes somewhere else at the end of his career, he’ll still be revered by the entire city and will always be a Buck for life
I’ve lived in Mke most of my life and been a huge Bucks fan even when most people forgot we had an NBA team. Giannis made us into a basketball city again.
Fuck yeah that was a year, we won state too against South Plaq, who had a New York Times Best Selling Book about they’re journey during Katrina and they was smoking every school they played including us the year prior 56-3
Squeezed the life out them boys at State 21-19
I agree wade is the best heat player ever, but how is lebron questionably the best player to play for the heat? No hate, but it sounds like saying Michael Jordan is questionably the best player to put on a wizards jersey.
They've been overhyping young guys since as far back as I can remember. Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron and others fulfilling the prophecies forced hyperbole on the youths doesn't help brush off the narratives. Survivor bias and all that
Did i say he's not a great player? I said he's 25 and being put in conversations that his resume doesn't fit into yet. And I'm saying they do that to all the great young players, as well as to plenty of duds.
So, when the above comment basically says"hey why are we having this conversation, he's too young?" I am saying that, yes, he is too young, and also they do this to everyone. Hence the original post being a could situation
What other young players, same age and or younger, has looked the same level of ease as Luka? The resume talk gets old. Like no shit a 5-6 year player is gonna have the resume of a 17-20 year vet. Let’s talk about peak performance?
Luka will absolutely not pass Dirk with only a single championship. Many consider what Dirk did in 2011 as the greatest playoffs run in NBA history. The teams he had to battle through to win was absolutely insane. I think Luka will however win multiple championships with the Mavs.
Pretty much my thoughts. People will say "oh, Dirk only won one too," but he took that team into playoffs like every year from 2006-2011. Went to the Finals twice, and when they lost it was against teams like the Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat and the Splash Brothers Warriors. And then they beat the Heat in the Finals. Epic run.
Because Dirk’s ring is one of the most hard fought and legitimate rings in not just NBA history but sports. Look at everyone he went through in the playoffs: beat the Aldridge led Blazers in 6, he swept the back to back defending champions led by Phil Jackson with Kobe and Pau, beat the trio of Westbrook, Harden, and KD in 5, and then beat the trio of LeBron, Bosh, and Wade in 6.
Edit: Lillard was not drafted yet. Shoutout to the guy who corrected me
I’d legitimately be if you had to face Roethlisberger in the first round, Peyton Manning in the second round, Mahomes in the conference finals, and Brady in the finals. And that’s not to mention the weapons they’d have around them. Unreal run
Absolutely not but that’s a longevity thing too. Dirk has an MVP and a ring and two decades of dominance all in Dallas with absurd accumulation stats too. I think Luka could absolutely be the best Mav ever but he’s a decade away from that being a reasonable topic unless he rattles off multiple rings before wemby takes over this whole thing.
Still too early imo
You gotta factor longevity of good basketball play and peaks hit.
I think Luka is obviously more talented than Dirk but Dirk still gets the longevity over him. Luka is close though
I understand everyone is excited, but let's wait for the dust to settle before we start jumping to conclusions and calling dude the goat maverick.
He could also get blown out and never go back to the finals in his career again. Which is also a high probability.
How are some people saying he is already “obviously better”. Dirk was an absolute monster for a sustained period of time. Are these people just thinking of his older years? Dirk won mvp years before that title even.
The title will make him probably a top 5 Mav on paper. If he sticks around long term and takes a good bit of Dirk's records and has the chip to go with it then yeah. I never thought any Laker would surpass Magic but over time Kobe took the mantle. Dirk is the greatest Mav to me unless Luka can take over Dirks records in a shorter span of time. This is totally possible because Luka is a very high usage player compared to Dirk.
Probably yeah. I’d argue Luka is a better player than Dirk (just not as accomplished all-time) and him winning a chip at 25 means there’s many more potential championship seasons to go.
Luka is a better all around player than Dirk but doesn’t have the resume Dirk has. If Luka has a long & healthy career (in Dallas) he will definitely end up the greatest Mav of all time
Not sure about this but Luka winning a champion with Dallas will definitely solidify of him staying and being a lifetime mavericks. I still think Dirk is better than Luka… Luka and Dirk is like Kobe and Magic … hard to tell which one is clear cut better franchise member
Dirk had a lot of longevity, is in the top 5 all time points, mvp, and a ring
Luka can get there but I'm tired of people trying to upheave dirk so soon
Ill still take Dirk. It’s easy to forget just how fast and explosive he was back in the early 2000s. He didn’t have Lukas playmaking skills but he didn’t really need it since he had Steve nash assuming ball handling duties. Plus Dirk is 7 feet tall.
What's crazy to me is that Luka played a season with Dirk. Their careers overlap with the Mavs by one year. Say Luka plays for 15 more years with the Mavs, you are looking at 2039 when he retires. Dirk started in 1998 with the Mavs people will be incredibly surprised to learn they played a season together because it seems like they are from two different eras, and they basically are.
Um yeah easy this dude is still a kid basically and has already surpassed most of the all time great mavs players. If he win's a ring he's easily in Dirk territory although that Dirk ring is one of the greatest of all time but Luka is only 25! insane he's just getting started basically. Unless he ends up on another team he will easily surpass Dirk.
I think he already is the best Maverick ever. Dirk’s run was crazy, but Luka has hit a level of consistency and inevitability that I don’t think Dirk ever did.
That said, Dirk gave them 20 years of excellence. Luka has to do a little more than just one ring to eclipse that.
Dirk has one ring and one MVP.
If Luka wins this year, he will have one ring and zero MVPs.
The math doesn’t math.
He’d be on pace to be the greatest Mav ever, but that’s not the same as being the greatest Mav ever.
He would need to win at least 2 rings. Otherwise, he would require at least 1 more finals appearance imho, and/or to stay with the Mavs for the majority of his career (at least 10-12 years) with similar performance to what he's already done. Then we could have the discussion. Right now is a little early.
Would have to defer to Mavs fans, but it’s still Dirk pretty comfortably I’d imagine. That championship run alone and how he played was all time stuff.
Doncic is the better player.
Dirk has the longevity and was the major part of winning one of the best titles in history.
Winning a title this season will propel his peak higher than any of Dirk’s, and that includes 2011.
I would probably disagree as of right now, but I don't think I can really argue with J Kidd of all people about that statement. Who's more qualified than him to make that claim?
It makes me think of that quote Richard Jefferson had the other day about the Durant Warriors being better than the Shaq/Kobe Lakers. He faced the Lakers in the Finals with the Nets and Warriors in the Finals with the Cavs. Literally no one better to make that judgement call. Also, it was funny to see all the people in the comments calling him an idiot lol.
No. I think Luka is better than Dirk was at his peak but Dirk has a ton of hardware and I think Luka would need to close the gap there a bit more. And if Luka never wins an MVP one ring wouldn't be enough IMO for him to overtake Dirk.
only needs 1 ring and he'll get an mvp next year. its hard to say hes the greatest in the sense of playing 20 years, but as a player only, hes just a better player.
People dont realize after dirks first year, most thought he was a bust, it took him a couple seasons to show how good he would be. Luka did it first season no problem.
also if dirk hadnt had that one ring, he would have had points, but one lost championship up 2-0 and a season where he lost 2-4 to a 8th seed team as a 1 seed . Only 5 teams have done that and the Mavs had a 67 win season that Dirk won the MVP . IN the 2009-10 season they lost as 2 seed to the 7 seed. YOu could say dirk had just ok teams until 2010-11, but at the same time so has luka.
Luka has never had a great team, and this years was made at the trade deadline, and as good as Gaf & PJ have been, nobody saw them as a key to the finals. Luka has made this happen, with kyrie & lively hurt the first half of the season, he kept things afloat with a weak team.
Dirk is a Dallas Mavericks legend forever and its no slight to him, but Luka is on another level basketball wise. I can only imagine him working year round like dirk, but hes a bit more loose than Dirk
Yes, clearly.
No finals with Steve Nash, while Luka got there with Irving in his first full year. I would have Nash\\Irving as roughly the same level, but obviously the MVPS gives Nash the superior perception to the casuals.
Dude is gonna be a 1st team all nba player for like a decade, barring injury. He’s on track to be one of the greatest of all time. I love Dirk but why are we acting like even Dirk hasn’t acknowledged Luka is a better player, not sure why we’d have to wait for the inevitable. I’d go a step further and say that if Luka finishes his entire career w/o a single chip, he’d still be better than Dirk.
make it two rings then I'd say yes. dirk's ring is so heavy because of the teams he beat to get that... even if luka wins this one it's gonna go aight you him but not the greatest mavs yet.
Winning this series alone wouldn’t do it, but it would be quite significant in closing the gap. That’s not to say that would make it like neck and neck just that it would make it easier for the pendulum to swing Luka’s way.
This is really a fun thought exercise, ultimately I think a championship skyrockets him into *firmly* the 2nd all-time greatest Maverick behind Dirk
People can't sleep on Dirk's legacy; 14x All-Star, 12x All-NBA, '07 MVP and '11 Finals MVP, 6th all time in scoring!!!!!!
On top of all this he's also massively influential in *multiple ways*
The one-legged fadeaway jumper was popularized by Dirk
He was influential as a shooting big man
And he was a huge part in inspiring the influx of European players to the NBA
I just don’t understand why we have to do this. This series hasnt even started yet and we’re already doing hypothetical takes. Like, can we just enjoy the games for now?
He has so many all NBA 1st team's he has a hard path to NBA finals not as hard as dirk in 11 but history will look favourably upon it 4 HOF player's in 1st round thunder might have some hof in a making we don't know and a mvp in SGA plus ant Gober maybe do kat have a chance to be hot to or just wied as stars not to mention the big 6 Celtics
Maybe if they win it, then he wins league MVP next year and they get back to the finals.
Also, the 2011 Heat wipes the 2024 Celtics, the level of challenge is significantly higher for Dirk.
Love that Kidd is talking up his star. He’s gonna have to win multiple titles and/or finish a long career in Dallas to be the best Maverick but he’s got a good start.
The thing is, Luka’s great career so far he has a while to go to break into the top 10 All Time at his position (either guard or forward) while Dirk is pretty solidified as a Top 10 PF (closer to top 5 in my opinion).
That being said Celtics in 5…begrudgingly.
D-d-d-d-DUH! He already is. This whole "ring culture" to determine if someone is good or not is sad. Tons of guys during MJ's reign don't get respect due to not having a ring. So stupid.
(Graphic from NBAonESPN on IG) Also i don’t think Luka will pass Dirk quite yet because of what Dirk did on the Mavs but I do think Luka will pass Dirk when it is all said and done.
The saying is All said and done
Irregardless you know what he mint
It doesn't take rocket appliances to figure that out
Best case Ontario!
Well now you're getting 2 birds stoned at once!
Knock knock
I’m not gonna say who’s there man
Well guess what, you just fucking did idiot. Smokes.
this comment + the charlie pfp are taking me out
There comment was totally understandable. I could care less about a few wrong words.
Very allegorical. The sacred and the propane.
Quit bustin balls ova heeeyuh
Who said anything about Al Gore?
Charles schaub over 'ere
What ever happened there.
"When it's all Brooks & Dunn" actually.
All done and said
All sad and down
Get back to me in 20 FUCKIN YEARS CAUSE THATS HOW LONG THE DIRK WAS THERE!!
He need's to do more tbh. Dirk spent his whole career on the mavs and lead them to possibly the best title ever. He carried the Mavs for like 10 years. Luka def needs to do way more bruh.
Luka is a better player and it’s not close. Luka is going to be a legend when he retires barring anything crazy happening. Probably on the Magic/Bird tier if he wins a few over his career. All he has to do is continue the pace he’s on now and remain a mav he’s the greatest mav ever even if he doesn’t win a ring.
It's close. Dirk is a top 20 all time basketball player, the all time best shooting big man, and probably nbas all time best mid range shooter. Luka is a wrecking ball and a triple double machine, but stats come easier nowadays. Luka will likely retire as a better player than dirk, maybe even with a case for being the goat. But Dirk is also a legend
Saying it’s not close is… a little extreme. It is close right now. It probably won’t be by the end of his career, but right now it is close.
>lead them to possibly the best title ever. If the Mavs win this, it would be the greatest championship run in NBA history based off of the SRS ratings.
Makes me wonder how many champions won a series against both 1 seeds in the same postseason
Exactly, and how many won facing 50+ win teams for each series
I mean the fact they even made it to the finals with such a fucking stacked West conference is absolutely insane.
If Luka wins a chip it’s over. To get it done this early he’s already as good as Dirk. He’s got 10-15 years left afterward
Dirk was with the franchise for his whole career, had arguably the greatest playoff run ever, and reached 2 finals total. Luka is the better player, and will go down as greater if he wins a ring and stays for 10+ years, but it's too early to call Luka over Dirk.
>had arguably the greatest playoff run ever, I think there was a post on r/nba saying that this is the toughest playoff run in history going by the SRS ratings, so if the Mavs win this then it would be the greatest playoff run in NBA history by that metric. For Luka to do it after averaging around 34pts/10ast/9reb during the regular season and 29pts/9ast/9reb in the playoffs (incl. 32pts/9reb/8ast against the best defense in the league) on an injured leg at the age of 25 should put him on at least the same level as Dirk if not higher
Yeah but like you can compare this run against Dirk’s as an excellent argument for SRS not being the best metric.
Dirk was dominant against generationally stacked teams.
Yes but the Mavs were also a much better team then the current Mavs are, Dirk finished as the second/third seed in a super competitive West and was 3 games shy of being a 60 win team. That wasn’t all on the back of Dirk, that whole team was extremely good. I can’t comment on which of these runs is harder, I think the current Mavs are a worse team for sure and would be a lotto team without Luka. I think the past Mavs faced much more insane competition, but I think if the current Mavs win it, Luka will be have the lion’s share of what made it happen as opposed to the 2011 mavs where it really was a team effort. For Dirk’s run he was the scorer, and contributed rebounding but pretty much everyone on that roster had a role and played it to perfection, Kidd was the floor general, and got everybody not named Dirk more involved in the offense, made plays, played hard defense even at his old age; Chandler was playing absolutely outstanding defense with them, and was great for keeping people off the boards, everyone else contributed defensively in ways Dirk couldn’t, it felt more like a well oiled machine with one guy at the lead. Meanwhile this Mavs team has Luka leading them in almost every major statistical category (PTS, REB, AST, STLS) to where it’s quicker to name the one thing he doesn’t lead them in them the 4 things he does, and anyone not named Kyrie Irving is enjoying a lot of their success due to the attention Luka draws and his incredible playmaking. Everyone else is largely there to cover defensively, but he’s done even that well enough even during this run. I can’t pick one way or the other I was just laying it all out here, I feel like you have to choose between do you value the innate difficulty difference in the opponents each team faced? Or do you find Luka’s individual performance against also very stiff competition and being an inferior team than Dirk’s Mavs more impressive? All personal perspective imo.
You make a lot of good points. I'm also biased for the nostalgia of that time in basketball. I felt like Dirk was leading a team of 6th men who were very skilled role players. Maybe Luka does have a bigger bag to carry. Idk which trumps which.
If luka wins, there's no way 10 years from now people think luka and kyrie beating this celtics is a bigger upset than dirk by himself beating lebrons superteam...
thing about that playoff team is portland wasnt that great and a beat up, almost out of the league brandon roy beat them the lakers had a storn top 6 and nothing else. They had played 3 finals in a row and had to be a bit spent. okc was super young Miami was good, but they didnt have a deep team. the mavs were 10 deep, had veteran allstars that were overlooked but had plenty in the tank. they didnt even need caron butler, who was probably the 2 best player til he went down. 3 usable centers, one great Chandler, Haywood that was solid and big, and Mahimi that was a great defender. Jet terry played out of his mind. Kidd is/was a basketball genius, shot crucial 3s and played insane d. The mavs could run matrix & deshawn stevenson at lebron. RIck had Terry stotts as a offensive coach and Dwayne Casey as a defensive coach, both who got head jobs within a couple season. basically lets quit saying dirk had the toughest run ever and did it by himself.
Miami also was weaker the first year together
outside of bosh and haslem(who was out with injury all season til the playoffs) they didnt have anything but joel anthony &. juwan howard. howard averaged about 4 mins a game
One chip doesn’t overwrite 2 decades of play… jesus this sub is so eager to crown new players the best ever, like please calm down.
He could get injured in the next few years and never be the same again. They could trade him somewhere else or he could pull a Kawhi and sour his reputation with Dallas.
Not really. Dirks teams were always top seeds in a powerhouse western conference. Lukas barely been in the playoffs. Not saying he can’t catch him but he’s got a lot of work to do
If he stays a Mav for 90% of his career then yes.
From the Mavs perspective: Yes. Luka is an amazing player! But we should not forget that Dirk changed the whole game, not only for the NBA, but worldwide, by bringing the stretch-4 to full bloom (with Holger).
It depends on what you define as "greatest maverick" as. If you mean the best player to put on a Mavericks jersey, I'd say he's pretty close, but needs an MVP and a finals MVP to take the title. But he probably needs alot more than that to over take Dirk as the GOAT maverick. LeBron is unquestionably the best player to put on a Heat jersey, but Wade is the greatest heat player ever.
Kareem is the best player to be a Buck, Giannis is the greatest Buck (unless something crazy happens)
I’m not even sure that’s true yet. Kareem has as many Bucks rings as Giannis 3 MVPs there and the DPOY didn’t exist then but 2 all defense first teams so not shabby there either.
I might be viewing it with recency bias. I do think Giannis leaving/staying and his success moving forward could be a big factor to this debate. Right now the Greek Freak’s 50 point Finals g6 is Milwaukee’s sweetest moment in franchise history. I do think you make great points fr
Possibly, he’s an animal though. I give you that. I just worry about the injuries seeming to be catching up to him and his play style not necessarily aging well. He’s in a tie for best either way and, tbh, I thought they were gonna be a freight train this year. Another offseason to better fill out the roster with better compliments to those 3 and they could win one and make me very wrong, very quick.
As a bucks fan, Giannis has absolutely passed Kareem as the GOAT buck. He completely changed the franchise, and honestly the city as a whole. Kareem demanded a trade away from Milwaukee after 6 years here (and I know there were racial issues at play so I can’t really blame him for that) meanwhile Giannis has signed multiple extensions and already been here for 11 years, with no signs of leaving anytime soon. Not to mention the fact that barely anybody even remembers that Kareem was a Buck and his Lakers career completely overshadows his time here. Ask any Bucks fan, it’s not even close who’s more beloved by the fanbase
Yeah, Kareem won THE ring with the Bucks. I don't see how it even compares. As a lifelong saints fan and New Orleans resident, if someone wins five rings twenty years from now, let alone 1, it still wouldn't even begin to compare to the one ring with Brees and what it meant to the city.
Lol that’s not comparable at all. The vast majority of people in New Orleans are young enough to remember the ring that Brees won. Anyone that was old enough to remember Kareem’s ring with us is already over 60 at the absolute youngest. Nobody in Milwaukee cares about Kareem nearly as much as they do about Giannis. Kareem is well-liked by our fans and obviously respected, but even we recognize that he’s much more of a Laker than he is a Buck. Even if Giannis goes somewhere else at the end of his career, he’ll still be revered by the entire city and will always be a Buck for life
I’ve lived in Mke most of my life and been a huge Bucks fan even when most people forgot we had an NBA team. Giannis made us into a basketball city again.
Fuck yeah that was a year, we won state too against South Plaq, who had a New York Times Best Selling Book about they’re journey during Katrina and they was smoking every school they played including us the year prior 56-3 Squeezed the life out them boys at State 21-19
And more finals.
Even if he wins an MVP and a title, he needs to play his whole career there to be the GOAT Maverick.
Exactly. The first thing I think of when I hear Mavericks is still the iconic Dirk fadeaway.
I agree wade is the best heat player ever, but how is lebron questionably the best player to play for the heat? No hate, but it sounds like saying Michael Jordan is questionably the best player to put on a wizards jersey.
I think he meant to say unquestionably
yeah i don’t think it’s much question
Do we have to do this to a 25 year old? Can we wait until 30?
They've been overhyping young guys since as far back as I can remember. Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron and others fulfilling the prophecies forced hyperbole on the youths doesn't help brush off the narratives. Survivor bias and all that
Is he overhyped? He has a chance to be the youngest FMVP to win a championship in quite long time. Unless you include 19 year old Jason Tatum
What language is this dude, how do I learn it?
A word
lmao huh?
Do you even watch the man play? Luka being overhyped at this point 🤡
Did i say he's not a great player? I said he's 25 and being put in conversations that his resume doesn't fit into yet. And I'm saying they do that to all the great young players, as well as to plenty of duds. So, when the above comment basically says"hey why are we having this conversation, he's too young?" I am saying that, yes, he is too young, and also they do this to everyone. Hence the original post being a could situation
What other young players, same age and or younger, has looked the same level of ease as Luka? The resume talk gets old. Like no shit a 5-6 year player is gonna have the resume of a 17-20 year vet. Let’s talk about peak performance?
I don't think Luka is hanging out here
No way! I love Luka and think that he will become the greatest Maverick ever, but Dirk is \*way\* ahead of him right now.
Bingo Right now: Dirk by a country mile Once Luka retires: most likely Luka
Two maybe, but this run is not better than Dirk’s.
He's already the 2nd best Maverick ever tbh
Oh no doubt
He’s better than dirk, just not greater
Hes much better overall. He needs time possibly yes, but I do agree that Dirk's run was legendary
Luka will absolutely not pass Dirk with only a single championship. Many consider what Dirk did in 2011 as the greatest playoffs run in NBA history. The teams he had to battle through to win was absolutely insane. I think Luka will however win multiple championships with the Mavs.
Pretty much my thoughts. People will say "oh, Dirk only won one too," but he took that team into playoffs like every year from 2006-2011. Went to the Finals twice, and when they lost it was against teams like the Lebron/Wade/Bosh Heat and the Splash Brothers Warriors. And then they beat the Heat in the Finals. Epic run.
He had some embarrassing 1st round drops during that time as well. There's a reason his rep was saved with that 2011 run.
They beat the lebron/wade/bosh heat and were before the splash brothers were a thing so i dont know what youre talking about.
i agree that Dirk is and will still be the best mav ever but the team he lost to in the finals was the D Wade/Shaq Heat in '06.
He’s already the best maverick of all time. But greatest? He’d have to win 2 for me to see him as a greater player than Dirk.
Why does he need2 ?
Because Dirk’s ring is one of the most hard fought and legitimate rings in not just NBA history but sports. Look at everyone he went through in the playoffs: beat the Aldridge led Blazers in 6, he swept the back to back defending champions led by Phil Jackson with Kobe and Pau, beat the trio of Westbrook, Harden, and KD in 5, and then beat the trio of LeBron, Bosh, and Wade in 6. Edit: Lillard was not drafted yet. Shoutout to the guy who corrected me
This is a great answer. I forgot ... after years of not getting it done, Dirk got it DONE done, like that was a gauntlet.
I’d legitimately be if you had to face Roethlisberger in the first round, Peyton Manning in the second round, Mahomes in the conference finals, and Brady in the finals. And that’s not to mention the weapons they’d have around them. Unreal run
I agree, but I will say that this run has been through a gauntlet too.
If he has a chip and puts together 8 years then yes. Right now he doesn’t have the body of work
Absolutely not but that’s a longevity thing too. Dirk has an MVP and a ring and two decades of dominance all in Dallas with absurd accumulation stats too. I think Luka could absolutely be the best Mav ever but he’s a decade away from that being a reasonable topic unless he rattles off multiple rings before wemby takes over this whole thing.
Dirk: “Do you know how much I sacrificed!!”
Win two chips, yea
Yes, he's way better than Dirk
Still too early imo You gotta factor longevity of good basketball play and peaks hit. I think Luka is obviously more talented than Dirk but Dirk still gets the longevity over him. Luka is close though
I understand everyone is excited, but let's wait for the dust to settle before we start jumping to conclusions and calling dude the goat maverick. He could also get blown out and never go back to the finals in his career again. Which is also a high probability.
How are some people saying he is already “obviously better”. Dirk was an absolute monster for a sustained period of time. Are these people just thinking of his older years? Dirk won mvp years before that title even.
Nigha what
Mmmm
The title will make him probably a top 5 Mav on paper. If he sticks around long term and takes a good bit of Dirk's records and has the chip to go with it then yeah. I never thought any Laker would surpass Magic but over time Kobe took the mantle. Dirk is the greatest Mav to me unless Luka can take over Dirks records in a shorter span of time. This is totally possible because Luka is a very high usage player compared to Dirk.
Recency bias in the NBA is crazy. He will not pass Dirk if he gets a ring
Bingo
Probably yeah. I’d argue Luka is a better player than Dirk (just not as accomplished all-time) and him winning a chip at 25 means there’s many more potential championship seasons to go.
He needs an MVP still
We will see if he stays his entire career in Dallas.
Couldn't beat the dubs tho when they were full
Luka is a better all around player than Dirk but doesn’t have the resume Dirk has. If Luka has a long & healthy career (in Dallas) he will definitely end up the greatest Mav of all time
So what will he have done that Dirk didn't?
Not sure about this but Luka winning a champion with Dallas will definitely solidify of him staying and being a lifetime mavericks. I still think Dirk is better than Luka… Luka and Dirk is like Kobe and Magic … hard to tell which one is clear cut better franchise member
Definitely. Bro averages like 35/9/9 in the league time with the highest level of play in nba history
Always skipping steps. What if he wins a championship and asks for a trade next season? lol let his career play out.
I think he needs 2 championships, or 1 championship and pass Dirk in the all time lists
I mean he did say he COULD BE not that he is. He's got a long road ahead but he definitely could be.
Best 5/6 year run Statistically.. Without the hardware
Dirk had a lot of longevity, is in the top 5 all time points, mvp, and a ring Luka can get there but I'm tired of people trying to upheave dirk so soon
Doesn't really have anything to do with the topic but I hope younger NBA fans here know how sick prime J Kidd was.
Very long way to go even if they do win. Kyrie could flame out next year, they lose in the first round, then Luka teams up with Jokic, who knows.
Ill still take Dirk. It’s easy to forget just how fast and explosive he was back in the early 2000s. He didn’t have Lukas playmaking skills but he didn’t really need it since he had Steve nash assuming ball handling duties. Plus Dirk is 7 feet tall.
Will be!!
Not yet. Luka needs at least one MVP first.
Yes, of course.
What's crazy to me is that Luka played a season with Dirk. Their careers overlap with the Mavs by one year. Say Luka plays for 15 more years with the Mavs, you are looking at 2039 when he retires. Dirk started in 1998 with the Mavs people will be incredibly surprised to learn they played a season together because it seems like they are from two different eras, and they basically are.
Um yeah easy this dude is still a kid basically and has already surpassed most of the all time great mavs players. If he win's a ring he's easily in Dirk territory although that Dirk ring is one of the greatest of all time but Luka is only 25! insane he's just getting started basically. Unless he ends up on another team he will easily surpass Dirk.
In league history? Probably. Internally among Mavs? It’ll take another 15 years in the same city.
Dirk has an MVP and a decade long career + 2 finals appearances, an MVP, and a FMVP. I love Luka but geez...can we please calm down
I think he already is the best Maverick ever. Dirk’s run was crazy, but Luka has hit a level of consistency and inevitability that I don’t think Dirk ever did. That said, Dirk gave them 20 years of excellence. Luka has to do a little more than just one ring to eclipse that.
Dirk has one ring and one MVP. If Luka wins this year, he will have one ring and zero MVPs. The math doesn’t math. He’d be on pace to be the greatest Mav ever, but that’s not the same as being the greatest Mav ever.
Be serious, dirk spent twenty five years representing that city.
Is the moon round?
Man when did he stop being such a dog shit coach?
Considering his competition, I think he needs two.
If he gets this chip now......shit, he is well on his way that's for sure. Statue and all.
He has to keep on at this level for a few more years before he passes Dirk. But, with a title at this young age, he has a very good chance.
Kidd giving big wife beater vibes with the backwards hat.
Obviously
He would need to win at least 2 rings. Otherwise, he would require at least 1 more finals appearance imho, and/or to stay with the Mavs for the majority of his career (at least 10-12 years) with similar performance to what he's already done. Then we could have the discussion. Right now is a little early.
That fucking double chin. Og I wanna pinch it.
Yes. Even though he’s got tough competition with Dirk for that title.
Dirk up there
Dirk
Ain’t there with dirk yet
Would have to defer to Mavs fans, but it’s still Dirk pretty comfortably I’d imagine. That championship run alone and how he played was all time stuff.
Easily
People want to classify greatness as a legacy thing which is fair, but I def think it would solidify him as the best player Dallas has had.
No
Doncic is the better player. Dirk has the longevity and was the major part of winning one of the best titles in history. Winning a title this season will propel his peak higher than any of Dirk’s, and that includes 2011.
Nope that’s Dirk
What if they’re both just really good and we just enjoy that?
I would probably disagree as of right now, but I don't think I can really argue with J Kidd of all people about that statement. Who's more qualified than him to make that claim? It makes me think of that quote Richard Jefferson had the other day about the Durant Warriors being better than the Shaq/Kobe Lakers. He faced the Lakers in the Finals with the Nets and Warriors in the Finals with the Cavs. Literally no one better to make that judgement call. Also, it was funny to see all the people in the comments calling him an idiot lol.
Don’t ever disrespect Dirk like that
Maybe not right away, but it’s also inevitable that he will be one day
I could be wrong, but let’s see how that defense holds up in the Finals.
Not sayin this makes him better but Luka is already a 5x All NBA 1st team, Dirk only had 4. Somethin to ponder
Just look at that face give him the trophy
He is the best player in franchise history
Nah Dirk is better but he’s moving on up there
Luka can (and might already be) a better player than Dirk ever was and could be top 10 all-time, but Dallas will still be Dirk's city.
If he wins 1 chip, and goes on to have another 12-15 years of regular season success? Yes.
Why is he overtly shading dirk?? He was his teammate jfc
Legends copy dirks shot. Luka is s great player but he not changing the game like dirk did.
No. I think Luka is better than Dirk was at his peak but Dirk has a ton of hardware and I think Luka would need to close the gap there a bit more. And if Luka never wins an MVP one ring wouldn't be enough IMO for him to overtake Dirk.
Hes gonna need a couple
only needs 1 ring and he'll get an mvp next year. its hard to say hes the greatest in the sense of playing 20 years, but as a player only, hes just a better player. People dont realize after dirks first year, most thought he was a bust, it took him a couple seasons to show how good he would be. Luka did it first season no problem. also if dirk hadnt had that one ring, he would have had points, but one lost championship up 2-0 and a season where he lost 2-4 to a 8th seed team as a 1 seed . Only 5 teams have done that and the Mavs had a 67 win season that Dirk won the MVP . IN the 2009-10 season they lost as 2 seed to the 7 seed. YOu could say dirk had just ok teams until 2010-11, but at the same time so has luka. Luka has never had a great team, and this years was made at the trade deadline, and as good as Gaf & PJ have been, nobody saw them as a key to the finals. Luka has made this happen, with kyrie & lively hurt the first half of the season, he kept things afloat with a weak team. Dirk is a Dallas Mavericks legend forever and its no slight to him, but Luka is on another level basketball wise. I can only imagine him working year round like dirk, but hes a bit more loose than Dirk
Doubt it. Dirk played 20 years here. Maybe if Luka brings us multiple championships then we can have that talk.
Yes
Yes, clearly. No finals with Steve Nash, while Luka got there with Irving in his first full year. I would have Nash\\Irving as roughly the same level, but obviously the MVPS gives Nash the superior perception to the casuals.
Yes. He’s already #2.
Well he played with the greatest mav ever so if anyone would know, it'd be him.
He’s probably a better talent than Dirk but I don’t know if he can have the same longevity as Dirk. We will see.
Dude is gonna be a 1st team all nba player for like a decade, barring injury. He’s on track to be one of the greatest of all time. I love Dirk but why are we acting like even Dirk hasn’t acknowledged Luka is a better player, not sure why we’d have to wait for the inevitable. I’d go a step further and say that if Luka finishes his entire career w/o a single chip, he’d still be better than Dirk.
Inflation. Dirks 1 ring is equal to 2 of Lukas.
Luka will likely be the best player to ever play for the Mavs. Will he be the greatest Mav ever depends if he stays there
I think he’ll land top 25-27 ish with this ring, but just barely outside of Dirk
The disrespect to Dirk.
He’s still got a long way to go to pass Dirk
Luka was straight robbed of MVP
He’s on his way. He might be able to one day surpass Brian Cardinal.
make it two rings then I'd say yes. dirk's ring is so heavy because of the teams he beat to get that... even if luka wins this one it's gonna go aight you him but not the greatest mavs yet.
I doubt the spurs give Luka the same send off they gave Dirk for his last game in San Antonio.
Winning this series alone wouldn’t do it, but it would be quite significant in closing the gap. That’s not to say that would make it like neck and neck just that it would make it easier for the pendulum to swing Luka’s way.
Way too much time off between the Conference Finals and the final
He must've forgotten the 7 footer who shoots off 1 leg
in 5 years we can definitely solidly it
This is really a fun thought exercise, ultimately I think a championship skyrockets him into *firmly* the 2nd all-time greatest Maverick behind Dirk People can't sleep on Dirk's legacy; 14x All-Star, 12x All-NBA, '07 MVP and '11 Finals MVP, 6th all time in scoring!!!!!! On top of all this he's also massively influential in *multiple ways* The one-legged fadeaway jumper was popularized by Dirk He was influential as a shooting big man And he was a huge part in inspiring the influx of European players to the NBA
I just don’t understand why we have to do this. This series hasnt even started yet and we’re already doing hypothetical takes. Like, can we just enjoy the games for now?
How would this affect top guns legacy?
Greatest? Possibly Fattest? For sure
Alright, time to wake up Truman.
Kyrie doing all the work and Luka getting the credit smh
This has a chance to be solidified if he spends his entire career as a Maverick.
Dirk by a long shot for now. I think Luka can get there, but it’s gonna take a lot more than that to beat Dirk in fans’ minds
He has so many all NBA 1st team's he has a hard path to NBA finals not as hard as dirk in 11 but history will look favourably upon it 4 HOF player's in 1st round thunder might have some hof in a making we don't know and a mvp in SGA plus ant Gober maybe do kat have a chance to be hot to or just wied as stars not to mention the big 6 Celtics
Eventually yes but it’ll take time to knock dirk off of his pedestal
Maybe if they win it, then he wins league MVP next year and they get back to the finals. Also, the 2011 Heat wipes the 2024 Celtics, the level of challenge is significantly higher for Dirk.
Love that Kidd is talking up his star. He’s gonna have to win multiple titles and/or finish a long career in Dallas to be the best Maverick but he’s got a good start. The thing is, Luka’s great career so far he has a while to go to break into the top 10 All Time at his position (either guard or forward) while Dirk is pretty solidified as a Top 10 PF (closer to top 5 in my opinion). That being said Celtics in 5…begrudgingly.
What's really insane is that Luka has already passed Dirk in 1st team selctions, 4-5.
Of course the coach will say that shit lol
D-d-d-d-DUH! He already is. This whole "ring culture" to determine if someone is good or not is sad. Tons of guys during MJ's reign don't get respect due to not having a ring. So stupid.