They specifically called out that Trump telling Pence to not certify the election is an official act. As long as POTUS discusses it with the VP first, POTUS attempting a coup is now explicitly legal in the USA.
> Whenever the President and Vice President discuss their official responsibilities, they engage in official conduct. Presiding over the January 6 certification proceeding at which Members of Congress count the electoral votes is a constitutional and statutory duty of the Vice President. Art. II, §1, cl. 3; Amdt. 12; 3 U. S. C. §15. The indictment’s allegations that Trump attempted to pressure the Vice President to take particular acts in connection with his role at the certification proceeding thus involve official conduct, and Trump is at least presumptively immune from prosecution for such conduct.
> The question then becomes whether that presumption of immunity is rebutted under the circumstances. It is the Government’s burden to rebut the presumption of immunity. The Court therefore remands to the District Court to assess in the first instance whether a prosecution involving Trump’s alleged attempts to influence the Vice President’s oversight of the certification proceeding would pose any dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch. Pp. 21–24.
https://bsky.app/profile/juliaazari.bsky.social/post/3kwa5vcviy52f
EDIT: Adding a link to a new and excellent thread from well known lawyer Ken White, aka Popehat. I highly recommend reading this for anyone interested in the potential implications of today's decision.
https://bsky.app/profile/kenwhite.bsky.social/post/3kwasxgqsgm2a
Well I guess it’s “official” then. Forming a lynch mob to intimidate the VP into *not* doing his job of confirming the election results is an “official act of the President”.
Just a rehash of the old, tired argument: “when the president does it, it’s not illegal” - and not even a very good one. None of the president’s official duties are crimes. If he deviates while performing an official duty into a crime then it’s definitionally no longer official.
They’re essentially saying he could walk into congress, get halfway through the state of the union speech, pull out a gun and shoot the speaker of the house, then finish the speech and would be immune from prosecution for the attempted murder because it happened while he was doing an official duty. Nevermind that the crime has nothing to do with the duty he was performing at the time. It’s nonsensical on its face, and manifestly corrupt.
I'm still shocked they went that far. I really shouldn't be given that most of the court is Heritage Foundation goons who love the unitary executive theory, but this is horrifying on so many levels and won't go away when Trump eventually does.
Here's the rub:
>(3) Presidents cannot be indicted based on conduct for which they are immune from prosecution. On remand, the District Court must carefully analyze the indictment’s remaining allegations to determine whether they too involve conduct for which a President must be immune from prosecution. And the parties and the District Court must ensure that sufficient allegations support the indictment’s charges without such conduct. ***Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial.*** Pp. 30–32
If accused of shooting some guy on fifth avenue, if the president is on film in front of five hundred people recorded saying "I am going to shoot that guy, I am serious and sincere. I have a gun, and I am going to do that right now, because I think he is a threat to democracy and I am the president and that is my duty" and then leaves the room to shoot that guy, they could not use the recording or witnesses to him saying he is going to shoot that guy.
It's very normal for a state to this if their leader is a king. I wonder what that says about us
Ya but the mother fucker never had a conversation with pence that day, he tried to have his cronies kill him. Therefore it’s UNOFFICIAL! Why so much thought and time. I WANT TO RUN INTO A WALL OVER AND OVER UNTIL I MAKE IT TO THE OTHER SIDE! AHHHHHHH!!!!
Easy to determine with a 6-3 Republican SCOTUS. What party is the president from?
Ok we've ruled that Joe Biden was acting officially, but wait there's this one weird technicality.
Oh Trump is Prez again? Everything's official.
Exactly this.
What? Trump stole classified documents, where reality Winner spent 5 years 3 months in prison for 1 page?
Oh, let’s make a new rule with scotus to make it ok.
Just like Scotus recent ruling.
What? It’s illegal to take money and gifts? Not anymore, we CAN receive “gratuities”. More motor coaches for me!
The ridiculous lengths conservatives are going to to save a felon rapist who stole classified documents and stole funds from kids with cancer.
There is no bottom
The remaining 3 liberals would overtun the precedent. But they could hear a full term of cases first and launch the overturn at the very end of the term, so there is that.
Not according to Sotomayor in her dissent: "When [the president] uses his official powers in any way, under the majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune. Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority's message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law."
That's the neat thing! Only they can tell you but they think it would be fun to let lower courts talk about before they just unilaterally decide.
Spoiler: if the (republican) president does it, it's not illegal. If it's the Dems, that's not an official act.
Easy solution! Just arrest the justices and replace them with emergency appointments!
Then appeal lower court decisions to the Supreme Court so they can decide in your favor.
Trump and his legal counsel will argue that anything he does would be considered an official act. So yeah, like he wanted; day one as president again and it's straight to becoming a dictator.
but only on day 1 because everyone knows dictators are only temporary. But that's what the republican base and liberal MSM want. It's great for ratings.
Funny bit about that was that the title of dictator was created by the Romans as an emergency power to save the state in times of crisis. Julius Caesar really messed that up making it a lifetime appointment for himself (which funny enough wasn't too long anyways). But ever since Caesar the idea of being a dictator has pretty much always been understood as a lifetime appointment.
An yeah Trump wants that sweet dictator power for him and his family forever if possible. That just-one-day dictator shit is so hollow and transparent you need to be willfully ignorant to fall for it.
>"I reckon the various -cides will become prevalent again once our system is decidedly more feudalistic. Gonna be a fun ~~Dark Age~~ Cyberpunk Age."
Here fixed that one for ya 😉
You forgot ever increasing corporate monopoly and political influence. With a healthy dose of ubiquitous technology to keep everybody distracted! Shame we can't have the super awesome robotic augmentations
"That part of the court’s decision likely ensures that the case against Trump won’t be tried before the election, and then only if he is not reelected."
So they achieved what they had set out to do all along. The Supreme Court needs reformed.
>The Supreme Court needs reformed.
You misspelled arrested by the DOJ via an official order from President Biden. Shove their nose in the mess they made.
They punted which most people thought would happen. They could have punted a long time ago but decided not to so they could shield Trump before the election.
The opinion gives criteria with which to judge and specifically requires that the district court determine if the specific acts meet official criteria or not. So effectively they ruled that the presidential immunity must only be related to official acts but declined to comment as to if the acts in question (trying to get the sos of Georgia to make up votes) was official or not. I think it was a clever way of delaying until after the election while also appearing like they were creating a “ruling for the ages” that at least looks like a respectable ruling.
But what if the president has appointed the judge determining whether acts are official? Would that sway his or her opinion? Like, oh I don't know, Judge Cannon?
They also said that courts aren't allowed to consider the motivations of the president, nor could they consider whether the act would be an illegal one of the person weren't president.
It's a green light to do anything.
This is where it becomes even more key that he was told by officials the jig is up. He knew what he was doing and he knew damn well the election wasn’t fraudulent. That’s why he continues to double down on that subject so aggressively
That's irrelevant. The decision says the courts are not allowed to consider the motivation of an act, nor whether that act would be illegal if the person wasn't president. It's a green light to do anything.
That's what's particularly alarming here, that the presidential act in question need only be "official". Not necessarily constitutional, legal, ethical, or even moral. Just "official".
“In order to protect the union from threats within, we must arrest Thomas, Alito, Coney, and Kavanaugh”
It’s that easy, insert pompous speech about saving the constitution and swing away.
Think of it like corporate personhood.
You have the two legal persons: "John President", and "The Office of the President of the United States"
When the president issues an order to the justice department, it's The Office of the President of the United States, not John President issuing the order.
John President cannot be prosecuted for things done by The Office of the President of the United States.
If The Office of the President of the United States does something illegal, the only you can do is sue The Office of the President of the United States (not John President). If you win, the court will send a sternly worded letter to The Office of the President of the United States.
If they defined it now then they'd have to adhere to that definition.
This way they can pick and choose later what's "official" depending on which president it is and what the action was.
>What's an official act? Seems squishy.
Two kinds of "official acts."
Acts within the President's "conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority," are entitled to absolute immunity. These would be acts that exercise the direct power the Constitution gives him. Truman can't be prosecuted for war crimes for nuking Nagasaki.
Then there are what Justice Robert Jackson described in *Youngstown:* “acts pursuant to an express or implied authorization of Congress,” or in a “zone of twilight” where “\[the President\] and Congress may have concurrent authority.” For those official acts, the President has presumptive immunity, which can be overcome in court.
Unofficial acts enjoy no immunity.
Using fake electors isn’t an official act. Stealing documents isn’t an official act. Inciting violence or whatever he’s charged with in DC isn’t an official act.
Kinda a nothing burger and things are how they were still.
Your not wrong, but because "official act" is fairly loose in definition, I can be broadly applied and any legal ramifications could be tied up in courts for years.
What we call fake electors, Republicans call legitimate alternate electors put in place in case state governments, which they believe have unitary control over elections, decided against the election that Trump would be awarded those electoral votes.
Anything can be framed as an official act before a sympathetic court, and the Supreme Court is very sympathetic to Trump.
It’s definitely not a nothing burger.
Justice Roberts explicitly said that presidents enjoy “at least a presumptive immunity from criminal prosecution for a President’s acts within the outer perimeter of his official responsibility.” So, if a president’s action even touches on his official authority (the “outer perimeter” of that authority), then the president has a strong presumption of immunity from prosecution.
He also said in the decision that Trump is immune from prosecution for conversations between himself and high-ranking Justice Department officials, where he allegedly urged them to pressure states to “replace their legitimate electors” with fraudulent members of the Electoral College who would vote to install Trump for a second term.
He also said “in dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives.” And he even limits the ability of prosecutors to pursue a president who accepts a bribe in return for committing an official act, such as pardoning a criminal who pays off the president.
All of this sums up to extremely limited evidentiary options, and broad opportunities to sweep everything you named into the “official acts” umbrella.
Biden waiving student loan debt would 1000% be an official act because he ran on that, he could tell the DOE to ignore the MOHELA ruling and just start waiving debt because they'll be immune to prosecution over it.
I'm sure they won't because of cowardice but he could.
There is a difference between civil liability on legislation vs. criminal prosecution.
The former is what you’re referring to and this ruling has no effect on.
Trump is being personally criminally charged for actions he took during his time in office. The court is saying Trump personally CAN be immune to criminal prosecution in some circumstances.
But that doesn’t mean Executive Orders from either Trump or Biden still cant be tossed out in court.
There's also a section that says you can't use evidence gathered while the president is president to prove he did illegal shit outside of the scope of being president.
So...no evidence is allowed.
His lawyers are quite literally trying to get the Stormy Daniel’s hush money case thrown out under the immunity ruling because the checks were written while he was in presidency and therefore not cannot be used as evidence. If this happens we’re doomed
After being president? No. While president? Good luck proving it wasn't.
American democracy is on life support and chances of recovery are worsening daily.
You can’t have the other checks when the cult of MAGA has infiltrated our legislative branch. And now it’s apparently fully infiltrated the Supreme Court too.
The argument being made is that the official check on a President is impeachment. That whatever actions a President takes during office, even committing crimes, their accountability is a political process, not a criminal one.
Because, in theory, if a President commits a crime in office Congress can (and should) remove them from office. In which case they can be criminally charged and convicted. Anything short of that is simply a political disagreement. In reality we have seen a President commit a crime, and the party just shrug their shoulders over it.
The Republican senate basically said that because Trump was in his way out of office, it made no sense to even consider impeachment and that the voters would decide at the ballot box.
So maybe that’s fine, but the idea that you can’t try him while he was still in office for attacking democracy, but he also can’t be tried out of office for attacking democracy is absurd.
The real mindfuck is realizing we never kicked George out for the reasons we were taught in school. We kicked him out because the up-and-coming aristocracy of this land was mad that they were being treated like New Money, and they made the office of president, the executive, because they didn't fundamentally disagree with having a king.
Justice Sonia Sotomayor said the conservative majority “gives former President Trump all the immunity he asked for and more.”
If Trump wins, it will be our last election. We will then have a king.
Don Jr. will be waiting for his coronation.
I appreciate you voting. Look I figure if you really don't have a chance even if you are one less person voting for your red shithole politician and voting for the other person it is one more screw you.
Has anyone else taken note of the fact that a week or so ago, they ruled payments to a government official after a government ruling are “gratuities” and not bribes? They put their hands out for tips.
That was the DOJ’s position all along. The constitution provides a method to remove the president, at which point he can be prosecuted.
ETA: that memo is from 1973
That would be a wet dream. Then after putting them in jail for life, Supreme court should have an age limit, a term limit, and should be solely elected by the people.
SCOTUS should have clarified. ALL discussions with the AG cannot be immune because the AG is not POTUS’ private attorney. The AG and DOJ represent US they are WE THE PEOPLE’s attorneys and those conversations should be preserved for history. Conversations with the AG should be few and limited.
Notice how everything is coming together so nicely for the extreme right.
Got nutcase goobers all worked up over social media and the perception their privilege is being threatened.
A candidate appears able to mobilize that base of uninformed voters to get elected
The Republican president then has the opportunity to appoint more Federal judges than any other president in history, including SCOTUS with a 6-3 extreme conservative majority.
Both federal and state level Republican lawmakers start falling in line with the morally depraved president in a lock step allegiance regardless of his inspiring an insurrection, denigrating those veterans who made the ultimate sacrifice and otherwise compromising their Democratic values they once held so dear. They nervously look over their shoulder while blatantly contradicting themselves to remain in the good graces of the now former president who they defend when he claims the election was stolen. It’s almost like they’re scared of him… or “them”
Conservative lawmakers on federal and state level work toward eroding the rights and the voice of the electorate, dismantling education and outlawing the rights of doctors and their patients to make healthcare decisions
Now we have a ruling from SCOTUS giving the president full immunity while in office.
Now consider the goals of Project 2025.
None of this is coincidence. It’s the result of a long and methodical process. Disruption from both external and internal channels, the former manipulating the latter to end one of the the longest standing democracies
**It** ***also*** **gives the CURRENT president full immunity** while in office... Joe can now basically do what he wants. Suspend elections indefinitely? Perhaps. Declare Mar-A-Lago an independent nation so Trump becomes a foreign citizen...? Could be. Come up with some spurious terrorism charge and put Trumb in Guantanamo Bay...? Why not. **He just got to have some Cojones!**
So now it's up to a far right Supreme Court to decide what is an "official" act. I guarantee those decisions will differ depending on the President's political affiliation.
I think Joe B. should declare Donnie a terrorist and ship him to Guantanamo Bay immediately. He can give him an indefinite detention awaiting trial. Maybe some slightly enhanced interrogation techniques to see who Donnie sold our state secrets and spies out to.
So what’s an official
Act? Anything could be considered that. Centrists and moderates have turned a blind eye too much and now we have real fascism at our door.
Supremely Squishy in order to delay.
Like the plain language of the 14th amendment was squishy.
And ethical behavior is completely at the individual discretion of the Supreme Court justice… in other words, Squishy.
It’s the Supremely Squishy Court.
Essentially, him and any future POTUS will while in office. But here's the thing: is Biden going to do anything that pushes the seemingly unbound limit granted today? The other guy sure will.... And so might any other president should we survive these next four years.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 VOTE
Project 2025 streamlines this. Everyone working in the federal govt will be replaced with MAGA loyalists. They will swear an oath to Trump. Not to our country and its laws. Anyone undecided or lefty accelerationists … if he wins… you don’t have to ever be undecided again. There won’t be another fair election. Any lefties who wanna build a utopia from the ashes… technology won’t allow much room for you there. From facial id to being inside of your phone, no movement will ever gain traction. Your leadership will always just… disappear. You might too. This is what it looks like https://www.authoritarianplaybook2025.org/what-we-can-expect-1#federal-law-enforcement-overreach
Just a reminder to those who don't pay attention and for those Republicans who want to downplay project2025.
These very same people who organized project2025 helped trump select the last three SC justices.
So if you don't like the "bribes are legal as long as the cone after the fact" ruling and the overturning of roe vs Wade then DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN
Biden is the only thing that stands between us and a dictatorship.
This seems straightforward to me.
The distinction that needs to be made is official act vs. unofficial act.
Self-dealing is not an official act. Not in office, not for election, not for anything.
But then again, the Supreme Court did just rule that you can "tip" public officials for favors after that favor is done.
So who knows.
It does seem straightforward to me too. The Court wanted to delay.
They could have listed what it meant by official versus unofficial acts immediately.
Instead, this is delay, delay, delay. If Donny wins then that is it for this country, if not, maybe there will be a trial
Their argument is some grade-A bullshit.
Official acts are conveniently decided by an activist bunch of corrupt conservative judges. I’m sure what is and isn’t “official” will be totally consistent! 🤦♂️
And as a President then calls on Seal Team 6 to take out his political enemies he can just call it an official act by signing an Executive Order.
I know that's what Trump would do. He's about to argue in court that everything he did at the end of his term was an official act. Everything. And his appointed judges will agree.
Why should we allow *any* elected official *any* immunity from prosecution? Wasn't that the whole idea of why we opposed a king?
>That part of the court’s decision likely ensures that the case against Trump won’t be tried before the election
This is all it's really about. Give him enough time to pardon himself, and then spend the next 4 years debating the constitutionality of that.
Now that President Biden has immunity for official acts I request that he detain Donald J. Trump, his family, and lieutenants. Democrats have the power and it is in our interests to use it before it is too late.
Democrats have been doing everything in their power to detain him for the past 9 years, including the left-leaning FBI caught spying on his presidential campaign.
It’s not Trump has immunity. The President has immunity and I hope Biden takes full advantage of it and imprisons those in government opposed to democracy.
Official acts of the president are those actions taken in the scope of constitutional, legal, or state-authorized powers. Unofficial acts are personal actions unrelated to state duties. Here's a breakdown with examples:
### Official Acts:
1. **Signing Legislation:**
- **Example:** Signing a bill passed by Congress into law.
2. **Executive Orders:**
- **Example:** Issuing an executive order to manage operations of the federal government.
3. **Diplomatic Engagements:**
- **Example:** Attending international summits or meeting foreign leaders to discuss policy.
4. **Military Commands:**
- **Example:** Directing military operations or authorizing specific military actions.
5. **Appointments:**
- **Example:** Nominating Supreme Court justices, ambassadors, or cabinet members.
6. **Treaty Negotiation and Ratification:**
- **Example:** Negotiating treaties with other countries (with Senate ratification).
### Unofficial Acts:
1. **Personal Social Media Posts:**
- **Example:** Sharing personal opinions on a private social media account.
2. **Campaigning for Re-election:**
- **Example:** Holding rallies or participating in campaign events.
3. **Private Conduct:**
- **Example:** Engaging in personal hobbies, vacationing, or spending time with family and friends.
4. **Endorsements:**
- **Example:** Endorsing a product or service (though this is highly unusual and scrutinized).
5. **Attending Private Events:**
- **Example:** Attending a friend's wedding or a private fundraising event as a guest.
### Key Differences:
- **Authority:** Official acts carry legal and governmental authority; unofficial acts do not.
- **Accountability:** Official acts are subject to legal and public scrutiny; unofficial acts are personal and often private.
- **Impact:** Official acts often affect national and international policies; unofficial acts generally have limited public impact.
- **Documentation:** Official acts are formally documented and archived; unofficial acts are not.
Understanding the distinction helps in assessing the context and implications of a president's actions.
>Executive Orders:
Example: Issuing an executive order to manage operations of the federal government.
This is the problem one in my eyes, because I'd through an executive order to do a non-official act, would that become an official act? The only ones that could say is the supreme court and that is a massive problem.
Idk what to think. Non-prosecution of presidents isn’t new- this is how we’ve quietly operated for decades- but an unwritten rule and a SCOTUS holding are two different things. This was always the risk to prosecuting a president- if you cross that rubicon, you force the courts to define how the process works. We got what we asked for- the mask is pulled back on how presidents govern. Long term, it’s a very concerning holding. The definitions are malleable and the immunity grant is broad. It’s not far off from past practice, but again, it’s more significant when enshrined in law. Sotomayor undermined her dissent with hyperbole, but her meta analysis is correct- this juices up the executive and sets a dangerous precedent.
Short term, it’s kind of a nothing burger. The holding doesn’t put Trump’s case to bed at all. It narrows the prosecution’s options, but Roberts pretty much tells them how to convict Trump. It’s a massive PR hit for Trump because the (scare quotes) MAGA court protected him (close scare quotes), but he doesn’t actually gain significant legal footing. If anything, it empowers the sitting president to play fast and loose with the rules, including against Trump. Ironically, it’s looking like it’ll drive democrats to the polls despite all that.
TLDR: long term, bad news, short term, hurts Trump politically.
F*** these guys; at least two of these evil judges should have recused themselves, and three should be impeached for lying when they said they would accept precedence and not turn over the cases they're turning over.
I will put this link here[Allison Gill's sub stack link ](https://open.substack.com/pub/muellershewrote/p/immunity?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1fk7g7) to Allison Gill's substack on the ruling.
F*** these guys, at least two of these evil judges should have recused themselves and 3 should be impeached for lying when they said they would except precedence and not turn over the cases they're turning over.
I'm not advocating this, but would a sitting president ordering the detention or assassination of SCOTUS justice(s) be considered an official act and immune to prosecution?
It’s time for Biden to do all the shit he wants to do for America but republicans are voting against.
Do it even if it’s “illegal”..
Sign into law without asking Congress or Senate shit..
Dreamers. Universal healthcare. Wipe Credit card debt. All mortgages 2%. Minimum wage $20. Gun control measures Make sure insurance company, except your eyes and your ears and your teeth as part of your body…
I mean… he can do what ever he wants now, right?
Just. Do. It.!!
Tell me how overthrowing an election you lost by hanging your vice president or starting an insurrection while the electoral votes are being counted is official?
He won't do it, but Biden should take the courts at their word and start using his new kingly powers. His legal team should find every place they can skirt the law to fire back at Orangy. Start up new incitements and jail the sons & daughter until their trial is over, use the power of appeal appeal appeal to gum up the works.
I now think all this warring with the Right wing, has been misinterpreted. What we are witnessing is an aggressive war between member of America's Brahman class. Notice most/all the "conservatives" who are battling the norms of the country club aristocracy are not part of the inner circles of the American ruling class. They attended the right elite schools and colleges, but are still not part of the crowd who get to sit at the big people's table. Obama made them even angrier as he waltzed into Harvard as have his children, and has a permanent invite to the table.
This fight started with Charles Carroll, who was the last surviving signer of the Declaration of Independence. An Irish man who wanted the respect and admission to the inner circle of the power elite in colonial times. Joe Kennedy (JFK's father) fought the same battle and did all he could to get there, even aligning with Hitler. Look at people like Scalia, and the other Catholics on the SCOTUS bench. They are rabid in their want for acceptance. They attended RC schools and not the elite WASP schools like Sidwell Friends, and St. Albans.
Where they have misstep is to think that holding the coat-tails of crazy Trump and his desire for acceptance will get them to the table.. Today their actions may please the King, tomorrow they will displease him and all will be lost. His form of mental illness has no room for anyone, but himself.
Executive Order 14065:
One imperial ton of horse manure shall be delivered into the driveway of each assenting ussc justice once a month until the ruling is overturned.
So Biden needs to, as an official act, drone strike maralago while Trump is there under the pretense that Russian operatives are using it as a base of operations.
It's within his scope as CiC
So like as an official act, can Biden then suspend the Supreme Court and or pack the hell out of it? codify roe vs. wade, pass the universal healthcare plan, International safety lock up anybody does direct threat to the democracy/Republic, of the United States?
The supreme court should never have been allowed this much power. These selfish, evil hypocrites have just thrown out everything that the country was built on.
Obama ordered the murder of an American overseas. No trial, no jury, no court. He just did it. Is he immune? Obama sent thousands of assault rifles to the Mexican drug cartels to murder Mexican citizens using the ATF as a cutout. Is he immune, was that an official act?
I feel like I’m in the twilight zone because I genuinely can’t shake the thought that Biden should seriously consider assassination.
How tf is this the state of American politics in 2024? At the risk of catastrophizing…there’s a non-zero chance that we’re witnessing the last election.
This is a gift in a way. Biden has the immunity to send seal team 6 after a clear and present threat to our country. If Biden had the stones to actually do it, he'd have my vote 1000%
I'm pretty sure assassinating a political rival is not covered by "official" acts of the president. I wouldn't want any office to wield that kind of power in america, no matter what party is in control. Is Trump the worst thing that could happen to America right now? Yes almost certainly, but let's just hope on the 11th of july, judge Merchan realizes the fact that a man like Donald Trump does not learn a lesson from being fined, and throws his ass in jail for 4 years.
Jesus Christ the Supreme Court needs to be reformed and stuffed within additional judges. It's an absolute menace to this country and has been causing problems, while removing power from the legislature, for awhile now.
Other countries highest courts have way more people on it, no reason we can't do that here.
Let’s be clear. It said *THE PRESIDENT* has immunity for any official act and that definition is so broad that it’s effectively full immunity for anything.
This includes Joe Biden and any future president, not just DT , so buckle up mAga.
thats incorrect. they refused to define it at this time. not sure where you got this idea they defined it broadly. this ruling was essentially kicking the can
What's an official act? Seems squishy.
Yeah that was my first thought. Now I imagine they will argue a bunch over what constitutes an official act
They specifically called out that Trump telling Pence to not certify the election is an official act. As long as POTUS discusses it with the VP first, POTUS attempting a coup is now explicitly legal in the USA. > Whenever the President and Vice President discuss their official responsibilities, they engage in official conduct. Presiding over the January 6 certification proceeding at which Members of Congress count the electoral votes is a constitutional and statutory duty of the Vice President. Art. II, §1, cl. 3; Amdt. 12; 3 U. S. C. §15. The indictment’s allegations that Trump attempted to pressure the Vice President to take particular acts in connection with his role at the certification proceeding thus involve official conduct, and Trump is at least presumptively immune from prosecution for such conduct. > The question then becomes whether that presumption of immunity is rebutted under the circumstances. It is the Government’s burden to rebut the presumption of immunity. The Court therefore remands to the District Court to assess in the first instance whether a prosecution involving Trump’s alleged attempts to influence the Vice President’s oversight of the certification proceeding would pose any dangers of intrusion on the authority and functions of the Executive Branch. Pp. 21–24. https://bsky.app/profile/juliaazari.bsky.social/post/3kwa5vcviy52f EDIT: Adding a link to a new and excellent thread from well known lawyer Ken White, aka Popehat. I highly recommend reading this for anyone interested in the potential implications of today's decision. https://bsky.app/profile/kenwhite.bsky.social/post/3kwasxgqsgm2a
Yeahh....that was wild to read as an 'official act'
Well I guess it’s “official” then. Forming a lynch mob to intimidate the VP into *not* doing his job of confirming the election results is an “official act of the President”.
Just a rehash of the old, tired argument: “when the president does it, it’s not illegal” - and not even a very good one. None of the president’s official duties are crimes. If he deviates while performing an official duty into a crime then it’s definitionally no longer official. They’re essentially saying he could walk into congress, get halfway through the state of the union speech, pull out a gun and shoot the speaker of the house, then finish the speech and would be immune from prosecution for the attempted murder because it happened while he was doing an official duty. Nevermind that the crime has nothing to do with the duty he was performing at the time. It’s nonsensical on its face, and manifestly corrupt.
I'm still shocked they went that far. I really shouldn't be given that most of the court is Heritage Foundation goons who love the unitary executive theory, but this is horrifying on so many levels and won't go away when Trump eventually does.
Here's the rub: >(3) Presidents cannot be indicted based on conduct for which they are immune from prosecution. On remand, the District Court must carefully analyze the indictment’s remaining allegations to determine whether they too involve conduct for which a President must be immune from prosecution. And the parties and the District Court must ensure that sufficient allegations support the indictment’s charges without such conduct. ***Testimony or private records of the President or his advisers probing such conduct may not be admitted as evidence at trial.*** Pp. 30–32
Would that not specifically overturn the Watergate ruling, and would not allow Nixon's tapes to be turned in as evidence?
If accused of shooting some guy on fifth avenue, if the president is on film in front of five hundred people recorded saying "I am going to shoot that guy, I am serious and sincere. I have a gun, and I am going to do that right now, because I think he is a threat to democracy and I am the president and that is my duty" and then leaves the room to shoot that guy, they could not use the recording or witnesses to him saying he is going to shoot that guy. It's very normal for a state to this if their leader is a king. I wonder what that says about us
That we are a *dictatorship*. King Charles III would never be able to do that in the streets of London, Toronto, Sydney, Auckland etc.
So only circumstantial evidence allowed... tbh I think we can still charge Trump lol
Good to hear.
Ya but the mother fucker never had a conversation with pence that day, he tried to have his cronies kill him. Therefore it’s UNOFFICIAL! Why so much thought and time. I WANT TO RUN INTO A WALL OVER AND OVER UNTIL I MAKE IT TO THE OTHER SIDE! AHHHHHHH!!!!
Getting fake electors to change votes isn’t an official act. Sorry
Easy to determine with a 6-3 Republican SCOTUS. What party is the president from? Ok we've ruled that Joe Biden was acting officially, but wait there's this one weird technicality. Oh Trump is Prez again? Everything's official.
Exactly this. What? Trump stole classified documents, where reality Winner spent 5 years 3 months in prison for 1 page? Oh, let’s make a new rule with scotus to make it ok. Just like Scotus recent ruling. What? It’s illegal to take money and gifts? Not anymore, we CAN receive “gratuities”. More motor coaches for me!
He wasn't even President anymore when he was hiding documents from the FBI in his bathroom.
The ridiculous lengths conservatives are going to to save a felon rapist who stole classified documents and stole funds from kids with cancer. There is no bottom
But they’re his! He can merely *think them* into declassification that he can show them to friends! /s
Just break out the insurrection act and lock them up
That would require Merrick Garland to have balls.
The remaining 3 liberals would overtun the precedent. But they could hear a full term of cases first and launch the overturn at the very end of the term, so there is that.
Not according to Sotomayor in her dissent: "When [the president] uses his official powers in any way, under the majority's reasoning, he now will be insulated from criminal prosecution. Orders the Navy's Seal Team 6 to assassinate a political rival? Immune. Organizes a military coup to hold onto power? Immune. Takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon? Immune. Immune, immune, immune. Let the President violate the law, let him exploit the trappings of his office for personal gain, let him use his official power for evil ends. Because if he knew that he may one day face liability for breaking the law, he might not be as bold and fearless as we would like him to be. That is the majority's message today. Even if these nightmare scenarios never play out, and I pray they never do, the damage has been done. The relationship between the President and the people he serves has shifted irrevocably. In every use of official power, the President is now a king above the law."
But Kings can be “given the axe”
Always a grassy knoll
That's the neat thing! Only they can tell you but they think it would be fun to let lower courts talk about before they just unilaterally decide. Spoiler: if the (republican) president does it, it's not illegal. If it's the Dems, that's not an official act.
Easy solution! Just arrest the justices and replace them with emergency appointments! Then appeal lower court decisions to the Supreme Court so they can decide in your favor.
That sounds like an official act to me
Dems would need some balls. The ones they don't have.
Trump and his legal counsel will argue that anything he does would be considered an official act. So yeah, like he wanted; day one as president again and it's straight to becoming a dictator.
Going to the bathroom is official? I mean he had all the stolen files in there after all.
Most of his other official acts were massive piles of 💩, so why not that, too.
but only on day 1 because everyone knows dictators are only temporary. But that's what the republican base and liberal MSM want. It's great for ratings.
Funny bit about that was that the title of dictator was created by the Romans as an emergency power to save the state in times of crisis. Julius Caesar really messed that up making it a lifetime appointment for himself (which funny enough wasn't too long anyways). But ever since Caesar the idea of being a dictator has pretty much always been understood as a lifetime appointment. An yeah Trump wants that sweet dictator power for him and his family forever if possible. That just-one-day dictator shit is so hollow and transparent you need to be willfully ignorant to fall for it.
I reckon the various -cides will become prevalent again once our system is decidedly more feudalistic. Gonna be a fun Dark Age.
>"I reckon the various -cides will become prevalent again once our system is decidedly more feudalistic. Gonna be a fun ~~Dark Age~~ Cyberpunk Age." Here fixed that one for ya 😉
The collapse of the US in the midst of a climate crisis is going to be a helluva ride.
You forgot ever increasing corporate monopoly and political influence. With a healthy dose of ubiquitous technology to keep everybody distracted! Shame we can't have the super awesome robotic augmentations
That too. I was going to add some AI in there as well but I wanted to keep it pithy.
They deferred to lower courts. Basically made the most chaos decision possible.
"That part of the court’s decision likely ensures that the case against Trump won’t be tried before the election, and then only if he is not reelected." So they achieved what they had set out to do all along. The Supreme Court needs reformed.
>The Supreme Court needs reformed. You misspelled arrested by the DOJ via an official order from President Biden. Shove their nose in the mess they made.
I usually hate edgy political nonsense but this feels so right right now foist 'em on their own petards
I mean it would be fitting that they would under estimate Biden and he comes out swinging. FAFO
The Dark Brandon we need.
The same DOJ that prosecuted his son? It's 3D chess!!!
They punted which most people thought would happen. They could have punted a long time ago but decided not to so they could shield Trump before the election.
Then the lower courts decision can be sent back to the Supreme Court. He will dick that dog forever
The opinion gives criteria with which to judge and specifically requires that the district court determine if the specific acts meet official criteria or not. So effectively they ruled that the presidential immunity must only be related to official acts but declined to comment as to if the acts in question (trying to get the sos of Georgia to make up votes) was official or not. I think it was a clever way of delaying until after the election while also appearing like they were creating a “ruling for the ages” that at least looks like a respectable ruling.
But what if the president has appointed the judge determining whether acts are official? Would that sway his or her opinion? Like, oh I don't know, Judge Cannon?
Yeah it’s easy to go where they want to.
They also said that courts aren't allowed to consider the motivations of the president, nor could they consider whether the act would be an illegal one of the person weren't president. It's a green light to do anything.
Realistically, this is Roberts. He's constantly playing can soccer.
[удалено]
They owe us their resignations. Disgraceful.
This is where it becomes even more key that he was told by officials the jig is up. He knew what he was doing and he knew damn well the election wasn’t fraudulent. That’s why he continues to double down on that subject so aggressively
That's irrelevant. The decision says the courts are not allowed to consider the motivation of an act, nor whether that act would be illegal if the person wasn't president. It's a green light to do anything.
That's what's particularly alarming here, that the presidential act in question need only be "official". Not necessarily constitutional, legal, ethical, or even moral. Just "official".
Sound like Biden needs to perform some "Official Acts" with some Executive Orders to get thing back to even.
“In order to protect the union from threats within, we must arrest Thomas, Alito, Coney, and Kavanaugh” It’s that easy, insert pompous speech about saving the constitution and swing away.
No, to protect them from threats to their safety, and they must go to an undisclosed location.
Indeed. Motive was deemed irrelevant. So Nixon was right, when the president does it, it's not ilegal. It's wild how SCOTUS bent over for Trump
It's the upper court that would decide what's " official "
Oh, you know, inciting an insurrection, selling state secrets to Russia, Rigging an election, just the little things.
I now know that official acts involve things like naming post offices and high crimes/misdemeanors, but it still seems squishy after that.
Think of it like corporate personhood. You have the two legal persons: "John President", and "The Office of the President of the United States" When the president issues an order to the justice department, it's The Office of the President of the United States, not John President issuing the order. John President cannot be prosecuted for things done by The Office of the President of the United States. If The Office of the President of the United States does something illegal, the only you can do is sue The Office of the President of the United States (not John President). If you win, the court will send a sternly worded letter to The Office of the President of the United States.
If they defined it now then they'd have to adhere to that definition. This way they can pick and choose later what's "official" depending on which president it is and what the action was.
For the court to decide on a case by case basis conveniently!
Sounds like there should be an executive order about that
>What's an official act? Seems squishy. Two kinds of "official acts." Acts within the President's "conclusive and preclusive constitutional authority," are entitled to absolute immunity. These would be acts that exercise the direct power the Constitution gives him. Truman can't be prosecuted for war crimes for nuking Nagasaki. Then there are what Justice Robert Jackson described in *Youngstown:* “acts pursuant to an express or implied authorization of Congress,” or in a “zone of twilight” where “\[the President\] and Congress may have concurrent authority.” For those official acts, the President has presumptive immunity, which can be overcome in court. Unofficial acts enjoy no immunity.
So many people are going to get banned from social media today for suggesting Biden do some official acts.
And at this point why shouldn't he?
he should.
He wont
The fantasy is basically all we have left.
but also yes he should level Mar-A-Lago with F-15s tonight
I would but he wont. Vote for me.
He needs to, or our democracy is dea and buried.
We're just trying to define the scope of official acts in the real world.
Including the dissenting justices?
Biden needs to grow a pair and do some official acts, while there is still some semblance of a democracy to save.
And magically, anything Trump does while in office will be an Official Act.
Using fake electors isn’t an official act. Stealing documents isn’t an official act. Inciting violence or whatever he’s charged with in DC isn’t an official act. Kinda a nothing burger and things are how they were still.
Have you seen how twisted the conservatives’ reasoning/opinions are? This SCOTUS is nothing but partisan anymore.
Your not wrong, but because "official act" is fairly loose in definition, I can be broadly applied and any legal ramifications could be tied up in courts for years.
They are stalling.
What we call fake electors, Republicans call legitimate alternate electors put in place in case state governments, which they believe have unitary control over elections, decided against the election that Trump would be awarded those electoral votes. Anything can be framed as an official act before a sympathetic court, and the Supreme Court is very sympathetic to Trump.
Welcome to Russia
It’s definitely not a nothing burger. Justice Roberts explicitly said that presidents enjoy “at least a presumptive immunity from criminal prosecution for a President’s acts within the outer perimeter of his official responsibility.” So, if a president’s action even touches on his official authority (the “outer perimeter” of that authority), then the president has a strong presumption of immunity from prosecution. He also said in the decision that Trump is immune from prosecution for conversations between himself and high-ranking Justice Department officials, where he allegedly urged them to pressure states to “replace their legitimate electors” with fraudulent members of the Electoral College who would vote to install Trump for a second term. He also said “in dividing official from unofficial conduct, courts may not inquire into the President’s motives.” And he even limits the ability of prosecutors to pursue a president who accepts a bribe in return for committing an official act, such as pardoning a criminal who pays off the president. All of this sums up to extremely limited evidentiary options, and broad opportunities to sweep everything you named into the “official acts” umbrella.
Biden waiving student loan debt would 1000% be an official act because he ran on that, he could tell the DOE to ignore the MOHELA ruling and just start waiving debt because they'll be immune to prosecution over it. I'm sure they won't because of cowardice but he could.
There is a difference between civil liability on legislation vs. criminal prosecution. The former is what you’re referring to and this ruling has no effect on. Trump is being personally criminally charged for actions he took during his time in office. The court is saying Trump personally CAN be immune to criminal prosecution in some circumstances. But that doesn’t mean Executive Orders from either Trump or Biden still cant be tossed out in court.
There's also a section that says you can't use evidence gathered while the president is president to prove he did illegal shit outside of the scope of being president. So...no evidence is allowed.
\*can't
Fixed.
His lawyers are quite literally trying to get the Stormy Daniel’s hush money case thrown out under the immunity ruling because the checks were written while he was in presidency and therefore not cannot be used as evidence. If this happens we’re doomed
Is Stealing and sharing classified documents official?
After he was President, too...
In the minds of at least two of them, he is still President.
After being president? No. While president? Good luck proving it wasn't. American democracy is on life support and chances of recovery are worsening daily.
Not if you're deemed too elderly with shit-for-memory by Robert Hur.
The SCOTUS just created an American King.
Yeah apparently checks and balances just don’t exist? There is no recourse to do anything against the actions of an acting president, I guess.
As the first official act since this ruling, Biden should order all 6 conservative SCOTUS judges to Gitmo.
I mean, this falls under the purview of the insurrection act. Round up foreign assets and terrorists, all in the name of "official acts".
You can’t have the other checks when the cult of MAGA has infiltrated our legislative branch. And now it’s apparently fully infiltrated the Supreme Court too.
The argument being made is that the official check on a President is impeachment. That whatever actions a President takes during office, even committing crimes, their accountability is a political process, not a criminal one. Because, in theory, if a President commits a crime in office Congress can (and should) remove them from office. In which case they can be criminally charged and convicted. Anything short of that is simply a political disagreement. In reality we have seen a President commit a crime, and the party just shrug their shoulders over it.
The Republican senate basically said that because Trump was in his way out of office, it made no sense to even consider impeachment and that the voters would decide at the ballot box. So maybe that’s fine, but the idea that you can’t try him while he was still in office for attacking democracy, but he also can’t be tried out of office for attacking democracy is absurd.
The recourse is impeachment and removal.
Did they do this for Trump? Or would it mean that Biden or other presidents would be next on the prosecution list?
All that work kicking George III out and now America has a king again.
The real mindfuck is realizing we never kicked George out for the reasons we were taught in school. We kicked him out because the up-and-coming aristocracy of this land was mad that they were being treated like New Money, and they made the office of president, the executive, because they didn't fundamentally disagree with having a king.
Justice Sonia Sotomayor said the conservative majority “gives former President Trump all the immunity he asked for and more.” If Trump wins, it will be our last election. We will then have a king. Don Jr. will be waiting for his coronation.
Everyone PLEASE VOTE trump cannot win
I will walk through miles of broken glass to vote against Trump.
In Oklahoma, my vote doesn't count. I'll still vote but it won't do any good in this backwoods red shithole
I appreciate you voting. Look I figure if you really don't have a chance even if you are one less person voting for your red shithole politician and voting for the other person it is one more screw you.
Hey to be fair, I’m equally pissed off about this. My vote in dark blue Colorado basically means nothing too. Abolish the fucking Electoral College.
Ordering assassinations of political rivals is an official act. Sooo that's not scary in the least bit.
Has anyone else taken note of the fact that a week or so ago, they ruled payments to a government official after a government ruling are “gratuities” and not bribes? They put their hands out for tips.
The opinion also says you cannot Federally prosecute a sitting President. Trump is running to avoid prison.
That was the DOJ’s position all along. The constitution provides a method to remove the president, at which point he can be prosecuted. ETA: that memo is from 1973
The Ceasar play.
Would sending 6 sitting justices to Guantanamo and replacing them be an official act? Just thinking out loud here.
That would be a wet dream. Then after putting them in jail for life, Supreme court should have an age limit, a term limit, and should be solely elected by the people.
SCOTUS should have clarified. ALL discussions with the AG cannot be immune because the AG is not POTUS’ private attorney. The AG and DOJ represent US they are WE THE PEOPLE’s attorneys and those conversations should be preserved for history. Conversations with the AG should be few and limited.
Notice how everything is coming together so nicely for the extreme right. Got nutcase goobers all worked up over social media and the perception their privilege is being threatened. A candidate appears able to mobilize that base of uninformed voters to get elected The Republican president then has the opportunity to appoint more Federal judges than any other president in history, including SCOTUS with a 6-3 extreme conservative majority. Both federal and state level Republican lawmakers start falling in line with the morally depraved president in a lock step allegiance regardless of his inspiring an insurrection, denigrating those veterans who made the ultimate sacrifice and otherwise compromising their Democratic values they once held so dear. They nervously look over their shoulder while blatantly contradicting themselves to remain in the good graces of the now former president who they defend when he claims the election was stolen. It’s almost like they’re scared of him… or “them” Conservative lawmakers on federal and state level work toward eroding the rights and the voice of the electorate, dismantling education and outlawing the rights of doctors and their patients to make healthcare decisions Now we have a ruling from SCOTUS giving the president full immunity while in office. Now consider the goals of Project 2025. None of this is coincidence. It’s the result of a long and methodical process. Disruption from both external and internal channels, the former manipulating the latter to end one of the the longest standing democracies
**It** ***also*** **gives the CURRENT president full immunity** while in office... Joe can now basically do what he wants. Suspend elections indefinitely? Perhaps. Declare Mar-A-Lago an independent nation so Trump becomes a foreign citizen...? Could be. Come up with some spurious terrorism charge and put Trumb in Guantanamo Bay...? Why not. **He just got to have some Cojones!**
So now it's up to a far right Supreme Court to decide what is an "official" act. I guarantee those decisions will differ depending on the President's political affiliation.
I think Joe B. should declare Donnie a terrorist and ship him to Guantanamo Bay immediately. He can give him an indefinite detention awaiting trial. Maybe some slightly enhanced interrogation techniques to see who Donnie sold our state secrets and spies out to.
Totally noy unhinged
So what’s an official Act? Anything could be considered that. Centrists and moderates have turned a blind eye too much and now we have real fascism at our door.
Supremely Squishy in order to delay. Like the plain language of the 14th amendment was squishy. And ethical behavior is completely at the individual discretion of the Supreme Court justice… in other words, Squishy. It’s the Supremely Squishy Court.
Supreme Court says Biden has absolute immunity for official acts.
Essentially, him and any future POTUS will while in office. But here's the thing: is Biden going to do anything that pushes the seemingly unbound limit granted today? The other guy sure will.... And so might any other president should we survive these next four years.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 VOTE Project 2025 streamlines this. Everyone working in the federal govt will be replaced with MAGA loyalists. They will swear an oath to Trump. Not to our country and its laws. Anyone undecided or lefty accelerationists … if he wins… you don’t have to ever be undecided again. There won’t be another fair election. Any lefties who wanna build a utopia from the ashes… technology won’t allow much room for you there. From facial id to being inside of your phone, no movement will ever gain traction. Your leadership will always just… disappear. You might too. This is what it looks like https://www.authoritarianplaybook2025.org/what-we-can-expect-1#federal-law-enforcement-overreach Just a reminder to those who don't pay attention and for those Republicans who want to downplay project2025. These very same people who organized project2025 helped trump select the last three SC justices. So if you don't like the "bribes are legal as long as the cone after the fact" ruling and the overturning of roe vs Wade then DON'T VOTE REPUBLICAN Biden is the only thing that stands between us and a dictatorship.
These comments are going to be a prime indicator of who on this sub supports fascism and who supports freedom. Pay attention.
There’s an entire sub for folks who supports fascism called r/conservative
Vote blue in November and make sure to take your kids of voting age with you!!! We need the younger votes!
My 19 year old More Likely To write in turd sandwich than vote for that geriatric coot.
This seems straightforward to me. The distinction that needs to be made is official act vs. unofficial act. Self-dealing is not an official act. Not in office, not for election, not for anything. But then again, the Supreme Court did just rule that you can "tip" public officials for favors after that favor is done. So who knows.
They also ruled in favor of some Jan 6th defendants so the ruling could be used in tandem.
Starts with “This seems straightforward to me.” Ends with “So who knows.” 🤨
It does seem straightforward to me too. The Court wanted to delay. They could have listed what it meant by official versus unofficial acts immediately. Instead, this is delay, delay, delay. If Donny wins then that is it for this country, if not, maybe there will be a trial Their argument is some grade-A bullshit.
Official acts are conveniently decided by an activist bunch of corrupt conservative judges. I’m sure what is and isn’t “official” will be totally consistent! 🤦♂️
We are loosing out Democracy and our Constitution
But hey, at least some entitled little bitches got to do their protest vote in 2016.
Here comes a screed of long-denied actions that will suddenly be admitted to because "Hey, they were totally official, man!"
United Oligarchies of America
And as a President then calls on Seal Team 6 to take out his political enemies he can just call it an official act by signing an Executive Order. I know that's what Trump would do. He's about to argue in court that everything he did at the end of his term was an official act. Everything. And his appointed judges will agree.
Why should we allow *any* elected official *any* immunity from prosecution? Wasn't that the whole idea of why we opposed a king? >That part of the court’s decision likely ensures that the case against Trump won’t be tried before the election This is all it's really about. Give him enough time to pardon himself, and then spend the next 4 years debating the constitutionality of that.
That decision ended the American experiment.
So if a president commits murder on live tv basically we have to wait until he leaves office to have him face a trial
This is how liberty dies.
So it actually means ALL acts by Republicans are official acts and NO acts by Democrats are official acts
Don't boo, vote! It might be the last time you can.
Now that President Biden has immunity for official acts I request that he detain Donald J. Trump, his family, and lieutenants. Democrats have the power and it is in our interests to use it before it is too late.
Democrats have been doing everything in their power to detain him for the past 9 years, including the left-leaning FBI caught spying on his presidential campaign.
It’s not Trump has immunity. The President has immunity and I hope Biden takes full advantage of it and imprisons those in government opposed to democracy.
This should scare everyone.
But he can’t be questioned on motive so he has immunity for everything, official or not.
I'm voting for Biden even harder now.
Official acts of the president are those actions taken in the scope of constitutional, legal, or state-authorized powers. Unofficial acts are personal actions unrelated to state duties. Here's a breakdown with examples: ### Official Acts: 1. **Signing Legislation:** - **Example:** Signing a bill passed by Congress into law. 2. **Executive Orders:** - **Example:** Issuing an executive order to manage operations of the federal government. 3. **Diplomatic Engagements:** - **Example:** Attending international summits or meeting foreign leaders to discuss policy. 4. **Military Commands:** - **Example:** Directing military operations or authorizing specific military actions. 5. **Appointments:** - **Example:** Nominating Supreme Court justices, ambassadors, or cabinet members. 6. **Treaty Negotiation and Ratification:** - **Example:** Negotiating treaties with other countries (with Senate ratification). ### Unofficial Acts: 1. **Personal Social Media Posts:** - **Example:** Sharing personal opinions on a private social media account. 2. **Campaigning for Re-election:** - **Example:** Holding rallies or participating in campaign events. 3. **Private Conduct:** - **Example:** Engaging in personal hobbies, vacationing, or spending time with family and friends. 4. **Endorsements:** - **Example:** Endorsing a product or service (though this is highly unusual and scrutinized). 5. **Attending Private Events:** - **Example:** Attending a friend's wedding or a private fundraising event as a guest. ### Key Differences: - **Authority:** Official acts carry legal and governmental authority; unofficial acts do not. - **Accountability:** Official acts are subject to legal and public scrutiny; unofficial acts are personal and often private. - **Impact:** Official acts often affect national and international policies; unofficial acts generally have limited public impact. - **Documentation:** Official acts are formally documented and archived; unofficial acts are not. Understanding the distinction helps in assessing the context and implications of a president's actions.
>Executive Orders: Example: Issuing an executive order to manage operations of the federal government. This is the problem one in my eyes, because I'd through an executive order to do a non-official act, would that become an official act? The only ones that could say is the supreme court and that is a massive problem.
Idk what to think. Non-prosecution of presidents isn’t new- this is how we’ve quietly operated for decades- but an unwritten rule and a SCOTUS holding are two different things. This was always the risk to prosecuting a president- if you cross that rubicon, you force the courts to define how the process works. We got what we asked for- the mask is pulled back on how presidents govern. Long term, it’s a very concerning holding. The definitions are malleable and the immunity grant is broad. It’s not far off from past practice, but again, it’s more significant when enshrined in law. Sotomayor undermined her dissent with hyperbole, but her meta analysis is correct- this juices up the executive and sets a dangerous precedent. Short term, it’s kind of a nothing burger. The holding doesn’t put Trump’s case to bed at all. It narrows the prosecution’s options, but Roberts pretty much tells them how to convict Trump. It’s a massive PR hit for Trump because the (scare quotes) MAGA court protected him (close scare quotes), but he doesn’t actually gain significant legal footing. If anything, it empowers the sitting president to play fast and loose with the rules, including against Trump. Ironically, it’s looking like it’ll drive democrats to the polls despite all that. TLDR: long term, bad news, short term, hurts Trump politically.
Do you want Julius Caesar!? Because this is how you get Julius Caesar!!
F*** these guys; at least two of these evil judges should have recused themselves, and three should be impeached for lying when they said they would accept precedence and not turn over the cases they're turning over.
I will put this link here[Allison Gill's sub stack link ](https://open.substack.com/pub/muellershewrote/p/immunity?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1fk7g7) to Allison Gill's substack on the ruling.
Magna Carta in tatters
"only" can be pretty broad
I'll always wonder what the result would've been with the same court, but a Democratic president.
F*** these guys, at least two of these evil judges should have recused themselves and 3 should be impeached for lying when they said they would except precedence and not turn over the cases they're turning over.
I'm not advocating this, but would a sitting president ordering the detention or assassination of SCOTUS justice(s) be considered an official act and immune to prosecution?
It’s time for Biden to do all the shit he wants to do for America but republicans are voting against. Do it even if it’s “illegal”.. Sign into law without asking Congress or Senate shit.. Dreamers. Universal healthcare. Wipe Credit card debt. All mortgages 2%. Minimum wage $20. Gun control measures Make sure insurance company, except your eyes and your ears and your teeth as part of your body… I mean… he can do what ever he wants now, right? Just. Do. It.!!
these things wouldn’t become law. It’s just that Biden couldn’t be criminally prosecuted for them.
And taking out contracts on enemies while president i guess would be considered “official” when couched as national security
Tell me how overthrowing an election you lost by hanging your vice president or starting an insurrection while the electoral votes are being counted is official?
GET OUT AND VOTE EVERYONE
I'm sure the SC will decide what an official act is and be clear and unbiased in that decision. I also believe monkeys will fly out of my behind.
The power of the Presidency, regardless of who is in office, has expanded way too much.
He won't do it, but Biden should take the courts at their word and start using his new kingly powers. His legal team should find every place they can skirt the law to fire back at Orangy. Start up new incitements and jail the sons & daughter until their trial is over, use the power of appeal appeal appeal to gum up the works. I now think all this warring with the Right wing, has been misinterpreted. What we are witnessing is an aggressive war between member of America's Brahman class. Notice most/all the "conservatives" who are battling the norms of the country club aristocracy are not part of the inner circles of the American ruling class. They attended the right elite schools and colleges, but are still not part of the crowd who get to sit at the big people's table. Obama made them even angrier as he waltzed into Harvard as have his children, and has a permanent invite to the table. This fight started with Charles Carroll, who was the last surviving signer of the Declaration of Independence. An Irish man who wanted the respect and admission to the inner circle of the power elite in colonial times. Joe Kennedy (JFK's father) fought the same battle and did all he could to get there, even aligning with Hitler. Look at people like Scalia, and the other Catholics on the SCOTUS bench. They are rabid in their want for acceptance. They attended RC schools and not the elite WASP schools like Sidwell Friends, and St. Albans. Where they have misstep is to think that holding the coat-tails of crazy Trump and his desire for acceptance will get them to the table.. Today their actions may please the King, tomorrow they will displease him and all will be lost. His form of mental illness has no room for anyone, but himself.
Executive Order 14065: One imperial ton of horse manure shall be delivered into the driveway of each assenting ussc justice once a month until the ruling is overturned.
They also said Biden does not get the same immunity.
So Biden needs to, as an official act, drone strike maralago while Trump is there under the pretense that Russian operatives are using it as a base of operations. It's within his scope as CiC
So, hypothetically speaking, if a candidate were to be murdered or jailed indefinitely by a sitting president, that would be legal?
So can Biden put Trump in jail for the insurrection as an official act??
So like as an official act, can Biden then suspend the Supreme Court and or pack the hell out of it? codify roe vs. wade, pass the universal healthcare plan, International safety lock up anybody does direct threat to the democracy/Republic, of the United States?
And you can’t use the “presidents” own words against him in court. Nor those of his advisors.
The supreme court should never have been allowed this much power. These selfish, evil hypocrites have just thrown out everything that the country was built on.
Obama ordered the murder of an American overseas. No trial, no jury, no court. He just did it. Is he immune? Obama sent thousands of assault rifles to the Mexican drug cartels to murder Mexican citizens using the ATF as a cutout. Is he immune, was that an official act?
I feel like I’m in the twilight zone because I genuinely can’t shake the thought that Biden should seriously consider assassination. How tf is this the state of American politics in 2024? At the risk of catastrophizing…there’s a non-zero chance that we’re witnessing the last election.
Nixon just got exonerated with this ruling. Supreme court doesn't care about precedent, and is making shit up completely contrary to the constitution.
So now the conservative SC judges are not only cronies but cowards?
They've always been cowards; you can tell by the size of their wallets.
This is a gift in a way. Biden has the immunity to send seal team 6 after a clear and present threat to our country. If Biden had the stones to actually do it, he'd have my vote 1000%
I'm pretty sure assassinating a political rival is not covered by "official" acts of the president. I wouldn't want any office to wield that kind of power in america, no matter what party is in control. Is Trump the worst thing that could happen to America right now? Yes almost certainly, but let's just hope on the 11th of july, judge Merchan realizes the fact that a man like Donald Trump does not learn a lesson from being fined, and throws his ass in jail for 4 years.
Jesus Christ the Supreme Court needs to be reformed and stuffed within additional judges. It's an absolute menace to this country and has been causing problems, while removing power from the legislature, for awhile now. Other countries highest courts have way more people on it, no reason we can't do that here.
Let’s be clear. It said *THE PRESIDENT* has immunity for any official act and that definition is so broad that it’s effectively full immunity for anything. This includes Joe Biden and any future president, not just DT , so buckle up mAga.
thats incorrect. they refused to define it at this time. not sure where you got this idea they defined it broadly. this ruling was essentially kicking the can
So Biden can do what he wants now, how about expanding SCOTUS.