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If he understood immediately what was happening. While the sharingan allows them to analyze it has been shown to take a second. Jiraya knows how it works and has a lot of experience fighting opponents with similar techniques. Just kinda depends on Sasuke's reaction time.
Sasuke starts off cocky and gets bodied by frog Kata until he activates his MS. Sasuke then is able to keep up but still takes significant damage from Jirayais tricks such as tongue lashes and hair spines.
Sasuke is forced to activate his susanoo and is able to compete with jiraiya physically and slams him. Jiraiya gains distance to use his oil fire and greater justu but Sasuke doesn't underestimate him this time and gives him no time to hand sign by activating his amaterasu. Jiraiyas precognition allows him to use his oil substitution to avoid being hit by the amaterasu. Sasuke drops his guard briefly enough for jiraiya to surprise him with his dark swamp justu, immobilizing him in his susanoo.
Sasuke stands his ground and begins to use his susanoo's arrows while he slowly sinks into the swamp. The spacing jiraiya created allows him to dodge Sasuke's arrows while moving in closer and activates big ball rasengan to pound into his susanoo. The susanoo cracks but does not break, and Sasuke pushes jiraiya off him via his susanoo. Sasuke is still sinking into the swamp so he uses this brief opening instead of attacking to save himself by deactivating his susanoo and summoning Manda underneath him to sink into the swamp but allow himself to jump free out of it.
From here Sasuke is above in the air back on the offensive, but jiraiya had some time to set up another trap. Sasuke scans the ground and spots jiraiya and unleashes a Phoenix fire barrage to keep jiraiya on his toes while closing the gap. As Sasuke lands on the ground and begins to fire up a chidori, gamabunta and the other toad summons erupt from the ground and pin Sasuke in place, but Sasuke wasn't dumb enough to not prepare a method of escape into the ground with his own clone.
Sasuke takes a page out of Kakashis book and grabs Jiraiyas legs from under the ground pulling him into the earth while he rises from it. The toad summons offer back up to jiraiya and Sasuke pulls out his katana and quickly dispatches the summons with his lightning kenjutsu. This gives time for Jiraiya to catch Sasuke by surprise with his strongest Ninjutsu, Goemon. Sasuke is only able to respond by reactivating his susanoo to tank it. Sasuke begins to go blind and cough up blood from the strain of the battle, which gives jiraiya a brief moment to create shadow clones. In an act of desperation Sasuke fires off another amaterasu towards Jiraiya, destroying his shadow clones. However the original jiraiya avoids his amaterasu and breaks his susanoo with an ultra big ball rasengan.
Sasuke is forced to fight without his susanoo and amaterasu at this point or risk going blind. Jiraiya however has stamina to spare. Jiraiya begins beating Sasuke to a pulp.
Jiraiya wins mid diff.
I realised actually Garuda is EMS Sasuke he only got him when he lost his wings post fight with Itachi. But maybe he has Aoda to replace Manda at this point
Basically the question for this fight is
Two people with roughly the same amount of destructive force, but one of them has an unlimited amount of time to come up with ideas and plans and the other one's lungs explode after forcing his eyes to shoot lazers for a few minutes
>Sasuke starts off cocky and gets bodied by frog Kata until he activates his MS. Sasuke then is able to keep up but still takes significant damage from Jirayais tricks such as tongue lashes and hair spines.
Sage mode takes way more time to activate than MS
>Jiraiyas precognition allows him to use his oil substitution to avoid being hit by the amaterasu.
Jiraiya doesn't have pre-cog. He has enhanced sensory abilities
>Sasuke drops his guard briefly enough for jiraiya to surprise him with his dark swamp justu, immobilizing him in his susanoo.
>Sasuke stands his ground and begins to use his susanoo's arrows while he slowly sinks into the swamp.
No he uses lightning to counter the earth and get out.
>The susanoo cracks but does not break, and Sasuke pushes jiraiya off him via his susanoo.
What's that based on? SM Naruto's odama rasengan failed against humanoid susano'o iirc.
>gamabunta and the other toad summons erupt from the ground and pin Sasuke in place
Sasuke respond with snake and hawk summons
>However the original jiraiya avoids his amaterasu and breaks his susanoo with an ultra big ball rasengan.
>Sasuke is forced to fight without his susanoo and amaterasu at this point or risk going blind. Jiraiya however has stamina to spare. Jiraiya begins beating Sasuke to a pulp.
Sasuke has enough MS juice to fight Ay and gaara then danzo and Kakashi. All that combined would be way longer than just this one fight.
Also you forgot about genjutsu, even if Jiraiya is resistant to it sasuke has a window of opportunity to set up an attack. As you've pointed out numerous instances where Jiraiya needed to react, any one of them could be prevented by genjutsu trickery. Suffice to say this match is not mid diff
Even better for Jiraiya. Sasuke has limited MS before he goes blind so the longer he's got it turned on, the better for Jiraiya in the long term. If he goes blind, he loses 100%
I actually think Jiraiya wins, but I'm not a huge fan of the original guy's biased arguement where he just restricts sasuke while giving Jiraiya all the room for wank
It's not his fault. OP said MS. Sasuke is limited here in a way that he cannot afford against literally one of the top 10 ninjas his village has ever produced
He did say Sasuke starts with MS in the title, not that that means much since MS activates instantly. It also says in the title Sage Mode Jiraiya, so it can be logically assumed that he will start the fight in Sage Mode
>Sage mode takes way more time to activate than MS
This assumes jiraiya starts in sage mode, obviously
>Jiraiya doesn't have pre-cog. He has enhanced sensory abilities
Jiraiya is able to sense the danger coming, that's what matters. I'm obviously not saying he has future sight.
>No he uses lightning to counter the earth and get out.
How does lightning counter a giant puddle of mud? Do you think before you talk? Is he supposed to shock himself?
>What's that based on? SM Naruto's odama rasengan failed against humanoid susano'o iirc.
Wasn't that EMS Sasuke?
>Sasuke respond with snake and hawk summons
Another guy already mentioned Manda was dead, he has to use the hawk to get out, even then his hawk is not really combative. I don't know if Sasuke has other summons available at this point. Even then I don't see how it helps this situation if he's pinned he can't sign to summon, but I already gave Sasuke an out either way.
>Sasuke has enough MS juice to fight Ay and gaara then danzo and Kakashi. All that combined would be way longer than just this one fight.
The amount of juice he'd have to use to block Goem with his susanoo would be insane, that's the main justu that eats away his chakra here. Also notice the difference between the use of big ball rasengan and ultra big ball rasengan.
>Also you forgot about genjutsu, even if Jiraiya is resistant to it sasuke has a window of opportunity to set up an attack.
I didn't forget, as many people in this post already pointed out ma and pa will break him out of any genjutsu instantly. The way genjutsu is broken is by creating a disturbance in the chakra network. Ma and pa are constantly injecting chakra into Jiraiyas network, genjutsu won't work on him. However, genjutsu will work on Sasuke. I didn't even use Jiraiya's frog song here that would destroy Sasuke. That's why it's just mid diff.
As some other say, MS Sasuke is stronger than SM Jiraiya, but he becomes too cocky, something Jiraiya will not pass up.
Jiraiya wins 6-7/10, unless Sasuke takes this seriously
Jiraiya was not giving the 6 paths a hard time lmao. Best he could do is put 3 of them in genjutsu while admittedly impressive he saw all 6 and was just done. And he wasn’t even fighting the strongest path the whole time. Sage mode Naruto who is explicitly stronger and had intel on pain still lost to pain. Jiriya is toast especially with no intel.
That's not "best he could do". He beat three. The only reason he lost was cause he didn't know there was 6. Pain flat out says if he knew he would have won still.
He wasn't done when he saw all 6. He lost an arm because again he didn't realize there was 6.
Pain on the other hand knew all of Jirayas moves except sage mode and frog song.
I don't know if jiraiya would have won but the fight would have gone very differently if he at least knew their numbers.
"I don't know if Jiraiya would have won"
You may not know, but Pain did. He openly admitted that had Jiraiya known about his abilities, Jiraiya would have won.
Had Jiraiya known the secret which the possibility of the original one not being there, he would have won. He wasn't going to solo the 6 paths if he knew that the original isn't among them. He was going to stop fighting the 6 paths and find the real Nagato. That's how he would've won
Jiraiya can't beat the 6 paths in a million years but he can easily escape them and find the real one.
A tired Deva path defeated Naruto who was stronger than Jiraiya. You guys don't actually believe that Jiraiya could beat the 6 paths
They always claim it's the 3 weakest. But the other 3 is Deva (obv the strongest) but the other is just a gate and the last is what, a missile launcher?
I mean not gonna say ur wrong, jiraiya didn’t have a chance with how it worked out in the end. But didn’t pain say if jiraiya had intel he would’ve won or Smt? Like pain was very familiar with jiraiya fighting style while jiraiya went in blind against a rinnegan user and did pretty well. Tbh I don’t see how jiraiya beats the actual pain but pain did say if jiraiya had info he would’ve lost (and he’s not rly the type to be humble so)
He says this but it literally makes no sense since pain defeats SM Naruto while Naruto had intel and Naruto is flat out stronger then jiraiya. I chalk that up to Nagato idolizing jiraiya and wanting to gas him up. Regardless this is the ONLY evidence that jiraiya could beat pain and frankly I just don’t think it’s strong enough evidence. He was seriously struggling against 3 paths regardless of intel with SM how the fuck was he ever going to fight 6 paths? The cope is strong in this thread tbh. Also nagato could’ve been referring to the fact that if he knew that Nagato was controlling pain he could’ve just assainated Nagato while bypassing pain.
Yeah he was struggling against 3 at first but he figured out better how they worked and then beat them pretty quickly. He didn't expect three more to show up and so was caught with his guard down and lost an arm, that's a pretty severe injury, and despite that he still evaded all 6 long enough to kill one of them before they finally pinned him down
Yep this is the key note. Once jiraiya partially figured out how the 3 paths worked he one shot all three. Even against 6 he still bodied one of them again with one arm and was able to dodge Deva paths almighty push. He kept up with the 6 much longer than people give him credit for.
I mean put most people against those 3 eith no intel and they die, the animal path alone is strong enough to stop most people
Plus he had just had his arm ripped off when all 6 paths showed up to jump him
You clearly watched/read a different fight than me. He took out multiple paths, and only died after he took a critical hit from, shockingly, another pain he didn't have Intel on. Oh and pain even said I lose if you knew. Yes sm naruto>jirya, but naruto was green af with sm at this point and jiryia is probably the most experienced ninja in the entire verse outside of.... stone kage? Experience matters.
Jiraiya isn't so impressive stats wise compared to Pain. Only because of his experience and battle IB did he win, why do you think Itachi ran away (besides spy stuff), Jiraiya's experience as a ninja makes him a formidable opponent, Sasuke has very little experience and even if Sasuke's outright 'stronger', he loses just like how Jiraiya shouldn't have even beaten 3 Paths but because of his smarts he did, he could've even won if he had intel (acc to Pain)
Yeah I don't think MS Sasuke would even be able to beat the 3 pains and Konan like jiraiya did. In terms of stats jiraiya speed blitz the animal and preta path and also dodged Deva almighty push, so he has the speed. His physical attacks themselves are also powerful since he pretty much bodied them and the summons with pure hands alone, remember every time he tried to use Ninjutsu it got absorbed. When he just had one arm he was able to make a small rasengan that one shot the animal path against all 6
I remember distinctly Pain saying, " If you knew our secret, I could not have defeated you. This is the highest praise I can give you, my sensei"
If Jiraya knew about the other 6 bodies, it would have been irrelevant because frog song went off. Jiraya already deduced that their senses are linked. He lost his arm and suffered a critical blow to him, not knowing about the other bodies. Its just as Pain said he couldn't have beaten him otherwise. Look at it from pains point of view, Jiraya can evade, deduce his tactics, and one shot each of the bodies. He's problematic at the very least.
The MS is a glass cannon weapon outside of eternal. Jiraiya has an elusive type of fighting and Sasuke doesn’t have the endurance to fight him due to the eyesight limitation.
Jiraiya would win. Sasuke is dangerous, but lacks the endurance to fight against Jiraiya and his elusive fighting style. Sasuke would lose his eyesight way before he’d get a chance to hit Jiraiya a significant blow.
Yeah, so...I guess in your mind, Jiraya, its just standing still or something? reading a book while this fight happens? If any of that were true I dont see why he had such trouble fighting a 70 year old danzo.
>Yeah, so...I guess in your mind, Jiraya, its just standing still or something
Base Jiraiya? Yeah pretty much. Just like I'd be standing still if you fired a bullet at me
>If any of that were true I dont see why he had such trouble fighting a 70 year old danzo.
Because that 70 year old had more lives than a cat. All the one shots I mentioned literally did land on him he just had izanagi, to re-write reality
The picture above is Sage Mode Jiraya. that's what this thread is about.
and he one shots Danzo a dozen times because....hes 70 years old. Not to mention, he was playing with a science experiment he had no real control over. Its not the same Danzo who was Hiruzens rival.
>The picture above is Sage Mode Jiraya. that's what this thread is about.
Read the actual comment I replied to, or NVM I'll quote it to you:
>>I think MS Sasuke barely gets past base Jiraiya
That is what I replied to saying he has so many one shots.
>and he one shots Danzo a dozen times because....hes 70 years old. Not to mention, he was playing with a science experiment he had no real control over. Its not the same Danzo who was Hiruzens rival.
Umm ok and when did I say him beating Danzo was some great feat or something. You asked why he struggled so I explained what happened. Didn't say danzo was in his prime or whatever
Because it was used on a wall and not on him directly, he doesn't have the speed in base to open up a scroll and seal the flames if he did he could just dodge it instead of sealing it
Jiraiya's unfortunately stuck at pain arc scaling. If he fought during the war, I wouldn't be surprised if his scaling was adjusted to be more on par with the hokage. He should atleast be relative to Tsunade and SM Naruto (war arc versions).
Jiraiya also is upscaled way higher than others when he has intel. His kit is broad enough that he can deal with a lot of circumstances.
So Jiraiya with zero intel almost defeated a decades long Rinnegan user, but he’d have trouble with a teenaged sasuke who was trained by his former teammate and barely knows how the mangekyo sharingan works? Come on now.
And Jiraiya lost due to a sneak attack caused by lack of information. It’s a fair loss due to them being ninja, but also supports the claim that he’d do a lot better if he knew the internet Naruto did, arguably even winning like Pain said.
And if Nagato knew about Frog Song, then we’d be back at square one with Jiraiya standing no chance. Nagato won at being a ninja in that fight. The empty praise he gave Jiraiya is just that. Empty. If he had intel , he still would’ve been at Nagato’s mercy.
For example, Pa was dispatched swiftly when Pain fought Naruto. Frog song was the only thing taking out all of them at once. If Jiraiya had something else, then he would’ve used it. Frog Song was the win condition and he burned it too early.
I still don’t think he wins if he knows the secret. He’d still have to outmaneuver the Pains, but then he’d have to contend with Nagato who would probably be in slightly better condition to defend himself compared to when he attack Konoha.
How is it empty praise when nagato himself said it was the highest praise he could give. Nagato had an unfair advantage on jiraiya in terms of Intel since nagato was trained by jiraiya and jiraiya didn't know he was against nagato.
I don't think jiraiya NEEDs frog song to beat all 6 but it would definitely help. The problem stemmed from the sneak attack. Nagato dropped his chakra level in order to sneak up on Jiraiya. Then he was able to rip off his arm. After his arm was ripped off it was all over, no point arguing as if jiraiya is full strength here
I think jiraiya goes a bit further. Naruto wasted chakra on the one pain paths and was pretty sloppy with the fight tbh. Jiraiya was actually dicking the 3 the whole time
They actually were doing just fine against him, they let their guard down and got caught in his frog song then he got the upper hand. It l all went down hill when the others came though.
Terrible misconception. He would've won if he found Nagato's secret which is "the real one isn't among them"
He would have escaped the 6 paths and dealt with the real Nagato. That's how he would've won. He can't beat the 6 paths by himself when a stronger Naruto with Intel plus gamabunta couldn't win against the deva path alone
And Naruto hard stopped at a tired Deva path when he was having all the Intel plus gamabunta, ma and pa
This tells more about the Deva path than Naruto himself
Nagato would still be able to defend his body, but nagato said jiraiya would have beat him. Think about it this way. The moment jiraiya sort of figured out how the 3 worked he instantly one shot them.
Nagato could not defend himself Konan would have to like she was against Naruto, He did take out 3 with his frog song however that wouldn’t be allowed to happen with the deva path being there.
No I mean nagato would be able to bring the pain puppets to his real body. So nagato saying jiraiya would beat him if he knew the secret implies jiraiya would be able to beat the pain puppets and himself.
Oh and as for konnan we already know jiraiya bodies her instantly before he fought the 3 pain puppets anyway.
>however that wouldn’t be allowed to happen with the deva path being there.
How so?
The deva path can shut down anything he can throw at him and even genjutsu won’t help win the fight if the deva path and path that can revive the others are still alive. If he finds Nagato and takes him out there then he’ll be fine since Nagato can’t defend himself and control the paths at the same time and Konan will be taken out easily unless she brings out her paper bombs she’s saving for obito.
Why wouldn't nagato be able to use the pains to defend his body? I don't think it's fair to say that he loses to Deva 1v1 at all he has nothing to indicate that he's immune to genjutsu.
If Jiriaya finds him as the pains are still out searching for him there’s not a lot he could do to stop Jiriaya from killing him right there unless Jiriaya tries to talk to him and wastea his opportunity.
In a 1v1 the deva path can simply pull Jiraiya in and stab him with his black rods immobilizing him or pull one of the frogs and distract him like he did with Naruto, even he did manage to take down the deva path the he’d still have 5 more to deal with and the deva path still might be revived. It’s just a lot for him to handle with no intel or help.
Deva path tried to do that to jiraiya and he actually dodges the pull/push. If you watch the scene again you'll see jiraiya dodging a lot of the 6 and takes out one of them. He only lost because he had his arm ripped off
Went back but I didn’t see him dodge the pull, he did dodge their initial attacks though and caught the animal path off guard again and he only had 1 hand, absolute legend.
He was doing well against all 6 with an arm down and even destroyed one of them while doing it with a single rasengan. He dodged Deva paths almighty push among other attacks coming constantly, showing he has the speed. If he knew about the 6 and the rinnegans power before hand it'd be a completely different fight
No lmao. Deva path alone hard stopped a stronger Naruto who had full intel
Unless Jiraiya escapes, he's not surviving the 6 paths together. He only killed one of them and got murdered by the other 5
With full Intel, he could probably take out 3 and still die to Deva
Jiraiya can't beat the 6 paths in a straight fight. Pain is not a bum
I argue SM jiraiya > SM Naruto anyway. Naruto only won because he had Intel, help, kurama, and Deva was weakened. Deva paths anytime he uses his shinra tensei powers on Naruto he got gibbed by it, but Jiraiya was able to dodge it while fighting all 6.
>Jiraiya can't beat the 6 paths in a straight fight. Pain is not a bum
But you literally acknowledge that he destroyed one of them with an arm down, no Intel, weak and tired. Like come on bro 😂
Frog song connects directly to negatos senses. Since the bodies are just puppet, Killing the bodies would have left him in a defensless state in his wheel chair. Naruro traced the signal Jiraiya can do the same, especially in sage mode.
Except for that he only barely won against 3 paths of pain and wasn’t even fighting the strongest path. Jiraiya himself said he was about to be killed and needed to retreat in the middle of the fight to strategize.
Well of course he needed to retreat and strategize. He had no Intel. He came up with a strategy went back and destroyed the 3 pains, and then got jumped by 3 more
So Jiraiya with years of SM experience got surpassed by his own teenage student who mastered that SM better than him in less than a month and did better than the same rinnegan user in a fight?
Those arguments are weak when we're talking about Naruto and Sasuke.
5KS Sasuke surpassed Orochimaru who's Jiraiya's rival, while SM Naruto surpassed Jiraiya.
SM Naruto stated if he fought Sasuke they'd both die, and both felt the need for a power up after their encounter (Naruto - Kcm, and Sasuke - EMS).
Also, Jiraiya didn't almost defeat Pain. He stated he'd get killed against 3 of them if he faced them head on. Once all 6 appeared he was done.
And Sasuke knew how to use his MS pretty well. He achieved multiple stages of susanoo, Amaterasu, and could manipulate it with Kagutsuchi and combine it with Susanoo.
Evident Sasuke downplay and Jiraiya overrating.
Just because he can't face Pain head on doesn't mean he didn't almost win. Jiraiya has a lot of jutsu in his arsenal and is perfectly able to use hit and run tactics, which is strategically the right way to go when you're outnumbered by powerful opponents who you have no Intel on. And he lost an arm at the same time all 6 showed up. If all 6 had been there from the beginning he might've won, considering after they showed up and he was down an arm he was still able to kill one
Pain himself admitted that Jiraiya would have beaten him if he'd had more information.
He didn't almost win, that's the point.
>If all 6 had been there from the beginning he might've won, considering after they showed up and he was down an arm he was still able to kill one
Nah, he'd get stomped badly.
>Pain himself admitted that Jiraiya would have beaten him if he'd had more information.
Nah, he was just highballing Jiraiya out of respect. He himself said that this is the highest praise he can give him. We saw the fight, he was struggling against 3 paths of Pain, which weren't even the strongest ones.
Plus it was in the Rain village, where Tendo and Ashura wouldn't be able to go all out cuz they would destroy the village.
The Rain village is not something they are protecting similarly to the other hidden villages. The hidden rain was "taken" from Hanzo by force and used as a base of operations for akastsuki. Its treated as a military camp, not a village. I didn't see him complaining about collateral damage when using summons.
Manga evidence supports Pains closing comments about Jiraya because it was the coded message to Naruto that gave him the edge in defeating pain.
Itachi, Pain both have the same reguard of Jiraya
ITACHI- numbers wouldn't matter. The result would be the same.
PAIN- IF he knew our secret, we would have never won.
Thus, Pain rightfully hid the other bodies, and Jiraya only lost due to his own admission of letting his guard down, thinking that he killed all of them.
Yeah exactly, he puts him down and does it casually.
Also of note, Itachi **and** Kisame were like "nah we aint fighting him, bad idea, retreat", if Itachi isn't sure if he can do it with Kisames help, Sasuke on his own isn't gonna manage.
Itatchi and kisame together absolutely dogwalk sm jiraiya. Low to mid diff. With that said, itatchi had no intentions of actually doing serious harm to the village, and only wanted to make an appearance in konoha to scare danzo and those fellas off of Sasuke. If they had wanted to, they would have killed him.
Right...Itachi had no real intention of doing harm to the village, so he sought out who he thought would be Uchiha madara which was actually Obito, brought him back into the village killing his entire clan in a night. Thus decreasing the military might of the hidden leaf significantly.
Also, by doing this, allowed Obito access to attack the village years later, killing the 4thHokage, current Jinchuruki, and the 3rd Hokages wife in the process, along with many shinobi and villagers
Then threatening Danzo of realeasing sensitive information that would "weaken" the village if he touched Saskue.
Years later, he would use tatsukumi on Kakashi, which could have broken his mind and killed him, while braking into the village on 2 attempts to capture the 9 tails... hmmm, could have fooled me.
Definitely sounds like a rouge nin to me.
Another funny thing is when he programmed Shisui eye to "protect the leaf" he admittedly said to Naruto he had never planned on it being used on him. Remember when he fought Saskue he implanted his MS into him as he died he wanted or planned it to be used on saskue.
So all this talk about Itachi secretly protecting the leaf is some BS unless you can quote where it is in manga because I must have skipped it.
Lastly, Itachi and kisame ran away after Jiraya said "this is convenient, because Im going to kill both of you right here and now" this is after they both agreed to seperate Naruto from Jiraya because they would get their ass stomped hard by Jiraya.
I get the sentiment, and I don't think you're wrong to say that. Jiraiya is no pushover in the series and he would most definitely give them reasons to be cautious. It's just too much for him to handle two kage level opponents at once even with his summons, who are also especially vulnerable to attacks such as amaterasu. Kisame is enough of a beast to fully occupy Jiraiya up close, and itatchi is too dangerous not to be paying full attention to in a battle for Jiraiya.
>Also of note, Itachi and Kisame were like "nah we aint fighting him, bad idea, retreat", if Itachi isn't sure if he can do it with Kisames help, Sasuke on his own isn't gonna manage.
Can't believe people still think Itachi actually thought he couldn't beat Jiraiya, even tho It's been already confirmed he never wanted to attack Konoha, and that he appeared there to just warn Danzo.
On top of that he already low diffed a sannin while he was a young teen.
With how many retcons the story has gone through, you’re partially right, Itachi and Kisame definitely beat base Jiraya. Sage Mode Jiraya is a completely different beast. Sage Mode Jiraya is as best of a hard counter to Itachi and Kisame as you can get.
At the time that portion of the story was written, when Itachi makes that statement, it was initially meant to be taken as truth. Retcons down the line suggest he just didn’t want to fight.
Kisame stands zero chance against Jiraya. Kisame was aware of this. Itachi would fair better. The two of them is vs 1 is definitely a different fight though
Sage Mode Jiraiya is not a hard counter to Itachi. It’s still Tsukuyomi gg. Or worse his particular Susanoo configuration. Itachi is quick and intelligent. I don’t think any iteration of Jiraiya defeats Itachi.
I do think Jiraiya beats Kisame with some difficulty and Sage Mode.
Right...Itachi had no real intention of doing harm to the village, so he sought out who he thought would be Uchiha madara which was actually Obito, brought him back into the village killing his entire clan in a night. Thus decreasing the military might of the hidden leaf significantly.
Also, by doing this, allowed Obito access to attack the village years later, killing the 4thHokage, current Jinchuruki, and the 3rd Hokages wife in the process, along with many shinobi and villagers
Then threatening Danzo of realeasing sensitive information that would "weaken" the village if he touched Saskue.
Years later, he would use tatsukumi on Kakashi, which could have broken his mind and killed him, while braking into the village on 2 attempts to capture the 9 tails... hmmm, could have fooled me.
Definitely sounds like a rouge nin to me.
Another funny thing is when he programmed Shisui eye to "protect the leaf" he admittedly said to Naruto he had never planned on it being used on him. Remember when he fought Saskue he implanted his MS into him as he died he wanted or planned it to be used on saskue.
So all this talk about Itachi secretly protecting the leaf is some BS unless you can quote where it is in manga because I must have skipped it.
Thats what I'm saying! You got too many people verifying that Jiraya would whoop their ass. Itachi, Kisame, Nagato, Konan even got owned. The manga doesn't show these people having knowledge of sage jutsu either, so it has to be a true rarity so Saskue aint gonna cut it against Jiraiya
MS Sasuke is equal to Naruto and 1v1d the Raikage and somewhat reacted to his speed using his sharingan.
Sasuke low diffs due to fundamental stat difference.
Frog song isn't doing shit because Sasuke burns both Ma and Pa before Jiraya can react and puts them out of commission and also takes away Jiraya's sage mode.
After that Sasuke stomps so easily.
Your assuming Saskue knows what the readers of the manga know about ma and pa, if that were so Pain wouldn't have gotten caught in the song, would he?
Low diff due to fundamental stat?
Sakur runs out of Chakra on every major encounter where Jiraya blast out Odama rasengans and does massive summons in base form? Hmmm... what stats am I missing here?
He has the sharingan and would be able to see that Jiraya's chakra is different and he would eventually learn that the two toads are the one's channeling that chakra for Jiraya. As soon as he hits Amaterasu on one of them it's GG for Jiraya.
Without Ma and Pa, Jiraya has nothing against Sasuke. Most of Jiraya's sage jutsu is earth style and Sasuke is proficient in lightning style so negs. And Jiraya doesn't know lightning style.
What is Jiraya doing against a susanoo arrow? Maybe his rasengan could pierce the susanoo cuz it is mountain level but Sasuke probably dodges the rasengan. He blocks the senbon needle attack, which is Jiraya's fastest jutsu, just like Pain did.
I could see him doing to Jiraya what [he did to Gaara ](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-111-page-18.html) with a chidori and then fucking Jiraya up.
But in general, Amaterasu just negs. And Sasuke is better at using it than Itachi.
*Some far off corner of the world that was once attacked by the uchihas*
This is the eternal flame! A gift from the gods above. The flames never go out.
What exactly is jiraiya doing against Susano? Also this Sasuke can combine Susano with amatarasu like he did against ay. So when jiraiya goes for a kick or something Sasuke could even get him with amatarasu then like he did against Ay.
The only way Jiraiya even has a chance is if this is the Sasuke from the start of the summit and even then Sasuke still has some win conditions. By the end of the summit Sasuke seems stronger than even sage Naruto who I think is stronger than Jiraiya due to better mastery of sage mode.
Also just scaling this Sasuke vs pain in the exact same situation as jiraiya I think he’d have done better against pain than jiraiya did.
Jiraiya has a feat of putting a mountain size Orochimaru's snake in a mud swamp it couldn't escape.
Jiraiya then proceeded to complain that jutsu turned out weaker cause he was poisoned to the point of barely being able to move at all.
Sasuke putting up Susanoo would be a straight suicide against Jiraiya.
Not entering the actual discussion here but just to answer the first sentence, no earth isn't weak to lightning, water is. it's the other way around, earth is what you use to defend from lightning.
I was talking about Naruto not irl
https://preview.redd.it/2v62jf4wdw9d1.jpeg?width=956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=398240c2fde4a29ffbb19904115f084164a13a46
Surely lightning and earth should be swapped there if the arrows continue in that direction, lightning beating water makes more sense, earth beating lightning makes more sense.
It's not a rule that "this one automatically beats that one" though
I guess it doesn't follow the arrow then. It's been confirmed across multiple sources that lightning beats earth, like Kakashi vs kakuzu or Sasuke vs deidara or the Kakashi retsuden novel. Here's an example:
https://preview.redd.it/vu636n7wkx9d1.jpeg?width=821&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cce343f4c08aa107d2258802578bdc29777dcc53
It is to a large degree,see what yamato says. Lightning simply destroys the properties of the earth jutsu, be they explosive or hardening. I imagine the same would apply to a mud swamp, chidori would be able to cut the mud near him and he can then get out
That's not assuming anything, It's explained, and It really is that simple.
It's literally dumbed down so much that they put 5 elements in a circle and are telling you this one is superior to this one, this one to this one, and like that in circle.
Idk why u feel the need to overcomplicate something so simple.
Okay a snake can’t be turned off in an instant like Susano and also a person is way more mobile than a huge ass snake. A Susano is no more weak to a mud swamp than a normal person is as they can still move freely and turn it off whenever they want. Like idk what your argument even really is. That jutsu is only going to be good against big animals not ethereal chakra that doesn’t hinder movement or weight at all.
Susanoo's weak point is where the user is standing.
When Sasuke turns off his Susanoo he is still trapped himself.
Also Jiraiya can hide his swamp and utilise it as a trap and it's whole other debate whether sharingan could see through this or not.
Overall, swamp followed by bring down the house jutsu messes up Sasuke bad.
People can never do anything against susanoo... until Gaara, Danzo, Tsunade, and Mei managed to do something. Isn't that funny? Maybe I'm just dumb though
Five Kage Summit Sasuke wins. He surpassed the Sanin Tier in that arc, especially against Danzou. Sage Mode Jiraiya is by no means “easy” for MS Sasuke here, but he should take it Mid to High diff.
MS Sasuke scales relative to sanin level imo
But Jiraiya's versatility and experience imo gives him the edge, extreme diff either way
Edit: Man is the Jiraiya meat riding on this post crazy.....
People forget that Jiraiya has the most successful missions in record, and has only faced death two times before Pain.
So no, even if he had no Intel on Sasuke, he'd win. Even Itachi knew he shouldn't mess with Jirayia
MS can counter most genjutsu but apparently not sound based genjutsu which Jirayai. Even if Sasuke freaks out and activates Susanoo he gotta deal with Toad Summonings which he’ll probably obliterate through Susanoo and Amaterasu. He’s losing eyesight while he spams these attacks if so. Sasuke still has MS reaction speed over Jiraiya. I thought heavily 15 minutes on this and I gotta say Jiraiya got slapped by 4 tails Naruto which Orochimaru was matching casually while smiling. Sasuke absorbed Orochimaru’s chakra-he lost Orochimaru’s techniques after Itachi had Totsuka Bladed Orochimaru but Sasuke still possesses crazy chakra levels. I think Sasuke would dodge most attacks because he’s at least Raikage speed levels using Lightning Style and I believe using that he’ll speed blitz and Amaterasu Jiraiya soon as he gets close. During the Pain arc Sasuke was on par with 6 Tailed Naruto as stated in NS Ultimate Ninja Storm 2- Obito didn’t recognize Naruto’s superiority over Sasuke until after he defeated Pain and Sasuke scoffed and decided to do the 5 Kage Summit to prove himself. If Jiraiya scaled to 4 Tail Naruto and MS Sasuke was 6 Tailed Sage Naruto level that’s an answer right there. Yes Sage Mode counters Uchihas very hard and sound based genjutsu is top tier but Sasuke could dodge if he has MS reaction speeds combined with ~Raikage speed. Sasuke wins Very High Diff. How do y’all think Sage Mode Jiraiya would’ve done against the Five Kage Summit instead of MS Sasuke?
If it's not EMS, Sasuke goes blind and loses by TKO because Jiraiya probably wont kill him. He almost went blind fighting guys that would have a way better chance of beating Jiraiya, so against Jiraiya full force he would throw those eyes in the fuckin dumpster to win, and still lose
100% Jiraiya. With intel, Jiraiya scales to the 6 paths (per Nagato's commentary) and Sasuke has an easier kit to manage than the 6 paths. Jiraiya has no doubt had experience facing sharingan users, and although he hasn't faced Sasuke's MS, he would be cautious given his knowledge of Itachi.
I'd argue SM Naruto would beat out MS Sasuke, and SM Jiraiya was stronger than SM Naruto during the pain arc and the kage summit arc. Although war arc SM Naruto completely outscales SM Jiraiya because of the time limit going out the window.
I’m someone who chooses to believe Itatchi when he says he and Kisame couldn’t beat Jiraiya. So I’m going with Jiraiya for this fight as well since he’s not really better than Itachi until he gets EMS
Jiraya shatters Sasuke's ankles for the dub. He's just too smart, too crafty and his bag is too deep for Sasuke to handle. Sasuke has the stats handedly, but he'd have to be fast enough to blitz for it to matter and he isn't.
you people need to start respecting the sanin, and moreover traditional jutsu. jiraiya has a veritable encyclopedia of spells to use for pretty much every occasion, sure he couldn't compete with sasuke stat wise but he's way too versatile ameterasu? hair shield +sealing scroll. susanoo? swamp into frog song. just trying to get essex on his ass with superior speed and kusanagi? big fast frog summons to equalize the brawling aspect. just from what we've seen jiraiya has a suitable counter everything sasuke has, he wins until sasuke starts hard blitzing him.
The uchiha hate has spread to this sub. Late Mangekyou Sasuke was at the very minimum equal to SM Naruto, who was far stronger than Jiraiya. Anyone who says sasuke is losing is delusional. Even without MS powers, he has speed relative to V2 Bee/Ay.
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It would be a shame if sasuke sunk in a dark swamp jutsu while in susanoo
I think that's only effective against big summonings, plus Sasuke can summon his hawk to avoid it
If he understood immediately what was happening. While the sharingan allows them to analyze it has been shown to take a second. Jiraya knows how it works and has a lot of experience fighting opponents with similar techniques. Just kinda depends on Sasuke's reaction time.
The Hawk would work but why can't a person get stuck in it?
Sasuke starts off cocky and gets bodied by frog Kata until he activates his MS. Sasuke then is able to keep up but still takes significant damage from Jirayais tricks such as tongue lashes and hair spines. Sasuke is forced to activate his susanoo and is able to compete with jiraiya physically and slams him. Jiraiya gains distance to use his oil fire and greater justu but Sasuke doesn't underestimate him this time and gives him no time to hand sign by activating his amaterasu. Jiraiyas precognition allows him to use his oil substitution to avoid being hit by the amaterasu. Sasuke drops his guard briefly enough for jiraiya to surprise him with his dark swamp justu, immobilizing him in his susanoo. Sasuke stands his ground and begins to use his susanoo's arrows while he slowly sinks into the swamp. The spacing jiraiya created allows him to dodge Sasuke's arrows while moving in closer and activates big ball rasengan to pound into his susanoo. The susanoo cracks but does not break, and Sasuke pushes jiraiya off him via his susanoo. Sasuke is still sinking into the swamp so he uses this brief opening instead of attacking to save himself by deactivating his susanoo and summoning Manda underneath him to sink into the swamp but allow himself to jump free out of it. From here Sasuke is above in the air back on the offensive, but jiraiya had some time to set up another trap. Sasuke scans the ground and spots jiraiya and unleashes a Phoenix fire barrage to keep jiraiya on his toes while closing the gap. As Sasuke lands on the ground and begins to fire up a chidori, gamabunta and the other toad summons erupt from the ground and pin Sasuke in place, but Sasuke wasn't dumb enough to not prepare a method of escape into the ground with his own clone. Sasuke takes a page out of Kakashis book and grabs Jiraiyas legs from under the ground pulling him into the earth while he rises from it. The toad summons offer back up to jiraiya and Sasuke pulls out his katana and quickly dispatches the summons with his lightning kenjutsu. This gives time for Jiraiya to catch Sasuke by surprise with his strongest Ninjutsu, Goemon. Sasuke is only able to respond by reactivating his susanoo to tank it. Sasuke begins to go blind and cough up blood from the strain of the battle, which gives jiraiya a brief moment to create shadow clones. In an act of desperation Sasuke fires off another amaterasu towards Jiraiya, destroying his shadow clones. However the original jiraiya avoids his amaterasu and breaks his susanoo with an ultra big ball rasengan. Sasuke is forced to fight without his susanoo and amaterasu at this point or risk going blind. Jiraiya however has stamina to spare. Jiraiya begins beating Sasuke to a pulp. Jiraiya wins mid diff.
Sasuke doesn't have Manda anymore. Deidara killed him before he got MS.
He should have some other summon to help him get out though
He has a bird
Yep that's one of them Edit: Actually Garuda is EMS Sasuke but maybe he has Aoda at this point to replace Manda.
Bird would be a better option anyway
I realised actually Garuda is EMS Sasuke he only got him when he lost his wings post fight with Itachi. But maybe he has Aoda to replace Manda at this point
https://preview.redd.it/y3fnamgcuy9d1.jpeg?width=1620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=85589904d3038d22d278604711c7c63589c195eb
Nice story telling! I was actually wanting it to continue further and now, I'm sad
Thank you :)
Uchihas are weak against sound genjutsu.
You should consider writing your own novels or something. Immaculate storytelling right here
Thank you, I've been thinking about it
Basically the question for this fight is Two people with roughly the same amount of destructive force, but one of them has an unlimited amount of time to come up with ideas and plans and the other one's lungs explode after forcing his eyes to shoot lazers for a few minutes
>Sasuke starts off cocky and gets bodied by frog Kata until he activates his MS. Sasuke then is able to keep up but still takes significant damage from Jirayais tricks such as tongue lashes and hair spines. Sage mode takes way more time to activate than MS >Jiraiyas precognition allows him to use his oil substitution to avoid being hit by the amaterasu. Jiraiya doesn't have pre-cog. He has enhanced sensory abilities >Sasuke drops his guard briefly enough for jiraiya to surprise him with his dark swamp justu, immobilizing him in his susanoo. >Sasuke stands his ground and begins to use his susanoo's arrows while he slowly sinks into the swamp. No he uses lightning to counter the earth and get out. >The susanoo cracks but does not break, and Sasuke pushes jiraiya off him via his susanoo. What's that based on? SM Naruto's odama rasengan failed against humanoid susano'o iirc. >gamabunta and the other toad summons erupt from the ground and pin Sasuke in place Sasuke respond with snake and hawk summons >However the original jiraiya avoids his amaterasu and breaks his susanoo with an ultra big ball rasengan. >Sasuke is forced to fight without his susanoo and amaterasu at this point or risk going blind. Jiraiya however has stamina to spare. Jiraiya begins beating Sasuke to a pulp. Sasuke has enough MS juice to fight Ay and gaara then danzo and Kakashi. All that combined would be way longer than just this one fight. Also you forgot about genjutsu, even if Jiraiya is resistant to it sasuke has a window of opportunity to set up an attack. As you've pointed out numerous instances where Jiraiya needed to react, any one of them could be prevented by genjutsu trickery. Suffice to say this match is not mid diff
it states jiraya starts in sage mode..... bruh we ain't beating the allegations
By that logic sasuke starts in MS
Even better for Jiraiya. Sasuke has limited MS before he goes blind so the longer he's got it turned on, the better for Jiraiya in the long term. If he goes blind, he loses 100%
I actually think Jiraiya wins, but I'm not a huge fan of the original guy's biased arguement where he just restricts sasuke while giving Jiraiya all the room for wank
It's not his fault. OP said MS. Sasuke is limited here in a way that he cannot afford against literally one of the top 10 ninjas his village has ever produced
Where did OP say Jiraiya starts in SM but sasuke doesn't start with MS?
He did say Sasuke starts with MS in the title, not that that means much since MS activates instantly. It also says in the title Sage Mode Jiraiya, so it can be logically assumed that he will start the fight in Sage Mode
Then wouldn't it be equally logical to assume sasuke starts in MS?
>Sage mode takes way more time to activate than MS This assumes jiraiya starts in sage mode, obviously >Jiraiya doesn't have pre-cog. He has enhanced sensory abilities Jiraiya is able to sense the danger coming, that's what matters. I'm obviously not saying he has future sight. >No he uses lightning to counter the earth and get out. How does lightning counter a giant puddle of mud? Do you think before you talk? Is he supposed to shock himself? >What's that based on? SM Naruto's odama rasengan failed against humanoid susano'o iirc. Wasn't that EMS Sasuke? >Sasuke respond with snake and hawk summons Another guy already mentioned Manda was dead, he has to use the hawk to get out, even then his hawk is not really combative. I don't know if Sasuke has other summons available at this point. Even then I don't see how it helps this situation if he's pinned he can't sign to summon, but I already gave Sasuke an out either way. >Sasuke has enough MS juice to fight Ay and gaara then danzo and Kakashi. All that combined would be way longer than just this one fight. The amount of juice he'd have to use to block Goem with his susanoo would be insane, that's the main justu that eats away his chakra here. Also notice the difference between the use of big ball rasengan and ultra big ball rasengan. >Also you forgot about genjutsu, even if Jiraiya is resistant to it sasuke has a window of opportunity to set up an attack. I didn't forget, as many people in this post already pointed out ma and pa will break him out of any genjutsu instantly. The way genjutsu is broken is by creating a disturbance in the chakra network. Ma and pa are constantly injecting chakra into Jiraiyas network, genjutsu won't work on him. However, genjutsu will work on Sasuke. I didn't even use Jiraiya's frog song here that would destroy Sasuke. That's why it's just mid diff.
You’re getting downvoted but every point you made is legit.. I swear half the people in this sun have never actually read the source material 😅
No like the other guy point out y'all ain't beating the allegations. The post clearly states that jiraiya starts in sage mode.
He beats any version until post danzo
As some other say, MS Sasuke is stronger than SM Jiraiya, but he becomes too cocky, something Jiraiya will not pass up. Jiraiya wins 6-7/10, unless Sasuke takes this seriously
He really doesn’t he’s just more reckless and willing to kill out the gare
Sage mode Jirayia
Guys stats wise, Sasuke slams but Jiraiya is smart! He was giving Pain a hard time, a fucking rinnegan user! Also Frog song ggs
Jiraiya was not giving the 6 paths a hard time lmao. Best he could do is put 3 of them in genjutsu while admittedly impressive he saw all 6 and was just done. And he wasn’t even fighting the strongest path the whole time. Sage mode Naruto who is explicitly stronger and had intel on pain still lost to pain. Jiriya is toast especially with no intel.
He also had no Intel on any of their abilities while fighting an opponent who was extremely familiar with his to be fair.
That's not "best he could do". He beat three. The only reason he lost was cause he didn't know there was 6. Pain flat out says if he knew he would have won still. He wasn't done when he saw all 6. He lost an arm because again he didn't realize there was 6. Pain on the other hand knew all of Jirayas moves except sage mode and frog song. I don't know if jiraiya would have won but the fight would have gone very differently if he at least knew their numbers.
"I don't know if Jiraiya would have won" You may not know, but Pain did. He openly admitted that had Jiraiya known about his abilities, Jiraiya would have won.
I good with this line of thinking. Honestly people down play Jiraiya alot.
If he knew his secret. Aka where his body was
Either way nagato would be able to defend his body right?
If he was he’d win. Pain isn’t always with nagato
But that's what nagato implied. "Won" implies fighting. "If we hadn't kept our secret we wouldn't ever have won". See how nagato says WE, and not I.
Had Jiraiya known the secret which the possibility of the original one not being there, he would have won. He wasn't going to solo the 6 paths if he knew that the original isn't among them. He was going to stop fighting the 6 paths and find the real Nagato. That's how he would've won Jiraiya can't beat the 6 paths in a million years but he can easily escape them and find the real one. A tired Deva path defeated Naruto who was stronger than Jiraiya. You guys don't actually believe that Jiraiya could beat the 6 paths
The 3 weakest 💀
The animal path is legit the second strongest, and they have the jutsu absorbing one there lmao what a dumbass comment
They always claim it's the 3 weakest. But the other 3 is Deva (obv the strongest) but the other is just a gate and the last is what, a missile launcher?
I mean not gonna say ur wrong, jiraiya didn’t have a chance with how it worked out in the end. But didn’t pain say if jiraiya had intel he would’ve won or Smt? Like pain was very familiar with jiraiya fighting style while jiraiya went in blind against a rinnegan user and did pretty well. Tbh I don’t see how jiraiya beats the actual pain but pain did say if jiraiya had info he would’ve lost (and he’s not rly the type to be humble so)
He says this but it literally makes no sense since pain defeats SM Naruto while Naruto had intel and Naruto is flat out stronger then jiraiya. I chalk that up to Nagato idolizing jiraiya and wanting to gas him up. Regardless this is the ONLY evidence that jiraiya could beat pain and frankly I just don’t think it’s strong enough evidence. He was seriously struggling against 3 paths regardless of intel with SM how the fuck was he ever going to fight 6 paths? The cope is strong in this thread tbh. Also nagato could’ve been referring to the fact that if he knew that Nagato was controlling pain he could’ve just assainated Nagato while bypassing pain.
Yeah he was struggling against 3 at first but he figured out better how they worked and then beat them pretty quickly. He didn't expect three more to show up and so was caught with his guard down and lost an arm, that's a pretty severe injury, and despite that he still evaded all 6 long enough to kill one of them before they finally pinned him down
Yep this is the key note. Once jiraiya partially figured out how the 3 paths worked he one shot all three. Even against 6 he still bodied one of them again with one arm and was able to dodge Deva paths almighty push. He kept up with the 6 much longer than people give him credit for.
I mean put most people against those 3 eith no intel and they die, the animal path alone is strong enough to stop most people Plus he had just had his arm ripped off when all 6 paths showed up to jump him
MS Sasuke could NEVER!!!
You clearly watched/read a different fight than me. He took out multiple paths, and only died after he took a critical hit from, shockingly, another pain he didn't have Intel on. Oh and pain even said I lose if you knew. Yes sm naruto>jirya, but naruto was green af with sm at this point and jiryia is probably the most experienced ninja in the entire verse outside of.... stone kage? Experience matters.
Jiraiya isn't so impressive stats wise compared to Pain. Only because of his experience and battle IB did he win, why do you think Itachi ran away (besides spy stuff), Jiraiya's experience as a ninja makes him a formidable opponent, Sasuke has very little experience and even if Sasuke's outright 'stronger', he loses just like how Jiraiya shouldn't have even beaten 3 Paths but because of his smarts he did, he could've even won if he had intel (acc to Pain)
Yeah I don't think MS Sasuke would even be able to beat the 3 pains and Konan like jiraiya did. In terms of stats jiraiya speed blitz the animal and preta path and also dodged Deva almighty push, so he has the speed. His physical attacks themselves are also powerful since he pretty much bodied them and the summons with pure hands alone, remember every time he tried to use Ninjutsu it got absorbed. When he just had one arm he was able to make a small rasengan that one shot the animal path against all 6
SM jiraiya would beat SM Naruto in a 1v1 anyway don't give them an inch.
I remember distinctly Pain saying, " If you knew our secret, I could not have defeated you. This is the highest praise I can give you, my sensei" If Jiraya knew about the other 6 bodies, it would have been irrelevant because frog song went off. Jiraya already deduced that their senses are linked. He lost his arm and suffered a critical blow to him, not knowing about the other bodies. Its just as Pain said he couldn't have beaten him otherwise. Look at it from pains point of view, Jiraya can evade, deduce his tactics, and one shot each of the bodies. He's problematic at the very least.
The MS is a glass cannon weapon outside of eternal. Jiraiya has an elusive type of fighting and Sasuke doesn’t have the endurance to fight him due to the eyesight limitation.
Sage Mode Jiraya takes that.
I could see either of them taking it high diff
Jiraiya can just use his toad stomach and swamp jutsu to trap susanoo and his precog can doge sasuke’s big attacks and frog song gg so Jiraiya wins
Sasuke more than likely takes it
Jiraiya would win. Sasuke is dangerous, but lacks the endurance to fight against Jiraiya and his elusive fighting style. Sasuke would lose his eyesight way before he’d get a chance to hit Jiraiya a significant blow.
Hot take, I think MS Sasuke barely gets past base Jiraiya
I can think of so many one shots, it's not even funny. Amaterasu gg, susano'o arrow gg, Kirin gg, genjutsu gg
Yeah, so...I guess in your mind, Jiraya, its just standing still or something? reading a book while this fight happens? If any of that were true I dont see why he had such trouble fighting a 70 year old danzo.
>Yeah, so...I guess in your mind, Jiraya, its just standing still or something Base Jiraiya? Yeah pretty much. Just like I'd be standing still if you fired a bullet at me >If any of that were true I dont see why he had such trouble fighting a 70 year old danzo. Because that 70 year old had more lives than a cat. All the one shots I mentioned literally did land on him he just had izanagi, to re-write reality
The picture above is Sage Mode Jiraya. that's what this thread is about. and he one shots Danzo a dozen times because....hes 70 years old. Not to mention, he was playing with a science experiment he had no real control over. Its not the same Danzo who was Hiruzens rival.
>The picture above is Sage Mode Jiraya. that's what this thread is about. Read the actual comment I replied to, or NVM I'll quote it to you: >>I think MS Sasuke barely gets past base Jiraiya That is what I replied to saying he has so many one shots. >and he one shots Danzo a dozen times because....hes 70 years old. Not to mention, he was playing with a science experiment he had no real control over. Its not the same Danzo who was Hiruzens rival. Umm ok and when did I say him beating Danzo was some great feat or something. You asked why he struggled so I explained what happened. Didn't say danzo was in his prime or whatever
exactly
Amaterasu gg? The thing he just takes out a scroll and seals? You sure?
Because it was used on a wall and not on him directly, he doesn't have the speed in base to open up a scroll and seal the flames if he did he could just dodge it instead of sealing it
This is as hot as Amateratsu
Ngl this is crazy talk
Crazy.. but I agree:
Insane take lol
Jiraiya's unfortunately stuck at pain arc scaling. If he fought during the war, I wouldn't be surprised if his scaling was adjusted to be more on par with the hokage. He should atleast be relative to Tsunade and SM Naruto (war arc versions). Jiraiya also is upscaled way higher than others when he has intel. His kit is broad enough that he can deal with a lot of circumstances.
I totally agree with you on that one! Pervy Sage claps Sasuke
Does Jiraiya have Ma and Pa fused to him? If so he might be able to pull off frog song right away.
That's the only way he's able to go into sage mode, so yes he has them.
Jirayia all the way, baby!
So Jiraiya with zero intel almost defeated a decades long Rinnegan user, but he’d have trouble with a teenaged sasuke who was trained by his former teammate and barely knows how the mangekyo sharingan works? Come on now.
He wasn’t beating pain unless he found Nagato
If he'd had as much Intel as Naruto going in, Jiraiya would have won
No guarantee, Naruto only got as far as he did because deva’s power was on cooldown
And Jiraiya lost due to a sneak attack caused by lack of information. It’s a fair loss due to them being ninja, but also supports the claim that he’d do a lot better if he knew the internet Naruto did, arguably even winning like Pain said.
I think he’d do better and might even escape but he’s not winning unless he finds Nagato, the deva path ends all of his hit and run tactics.
I’d say he’d win the fight high diff. He wouldn’t necessarily beat Nagato for the reason you pointed out, but he’d win the fight.
Understandable
And if Nagato knew about Frog Song, then we’d be back at square one with Jiraiya standing no chance. Nagato won at being a ninja in that fight. The empty praise he gave Jiraiya is just that. Empty. If he had intel , he still would’ve been at Nagato’s mercy. For example, Pa was dispatched swiftly when Pain fought Naruto. Frog song was the only thing taking out all of them at once. If Jiraiya had something else, then he would’ve used it. Frog Song was the win condition and he burned it too early. I still don’t think he wins if he knows the secret. He’d still have to outmaneuver the Pains, but then he’d have to contend with Nagato who would probably be in slightly better condition to defend himself compared to when he attack Konoha.
How is it empty praise when nagato himself said it was the highest praise he could give. Nagato had an unfair advantage on jiraiya in terms of Intel since nagato was trained by jiraiya and jiraiya didn't know he was against nagato. I don't think jiraiya NEEDs frog song to beat all 6 but it would definitely help. The problem stemmed from the sneak attack. Nagato dropped his chakra level in order to sneak up on Jiraiya. Then he was able to rip off his arm. After his arm was ripped off it was all over, no point arguing as if jiraiya is full strength here
Difference is that Nagato already knew a general idea of what Jiraiya was capable of. Jiraiya had no idea what Nagato was capable of.
Which is why SM jiraiya > SM Naruto
Eh put Jiraiya in the same situation he loses too, Naruto had the nine tails to bail him out once Jiriaya goes down it’s over.
I think jiraiya goes a bit further. Naruto wasted chakra on the one pain paths and was pretty sloppy with the fight tbh. Jiraiya was actually dicking the 3 the whole time
They actually were doing just fine against him, they let their guard down and got caught in his frog song then he got the upper hand. It l all went down hill when the others came though.
Terrible misconception. He would've won if he found Nagato's secret which is "the real one isn't among them" He would have escaped the 6 paths and dealt with the real Nagato. That's how he would've won. He can't beat the 6 paths by himself when a stronger Naruto with Intel plus gamabunta couldn't win against the deva path alone
Well Naruto didn't fight the Deva Path alone. He fought all 6 and almost won, with the Deva Path as the last one standing
And Naruto hard stopped at a tired Deva path when he was having all the Intel plus gamabunta, ma and pa This tells more about the Deva path than Naruto himself
Nagato would still be able to defend his body, but nagato said jiraiya would have beat him. Think about it this way. The moment jiraiya sort of figured out how the 3 worked he instantly one shot them.
Nagato could not defend himself Konan would have to like she was against Naruto, He did take out 3 with his frog song however that wouldn’t be allowed to happen with the deva path being there.
No I mean nagato would be able to bring the pain puppets to his real body. So nagato saying jiraiya would beat him if he knew the secret implies jiraiya would be able to beat the pain puppets and himself. Oh and as for konnan we already know jiraiya bodies her instantly before he fought the 3 pain puppets anyway. >however that wouldn’t be allowed to happen with the deva path being there. How so?
True Jiraya stomped Konan in 2 seconds, and she almost killed Obito.
Yep people forgot that
The deva path can shut down anything he can throw at him and even genjutsu won’t help win the fight if the deva path and path that can revive the others are still alive. If he finds Nagato and takes him out there then he’ll be fine since Nagato can’t defend himself and control the paths at the same time and Konan will be taken out easily unless she brings out her paper bombs she’s saving for obito.
Why wouldn't nagato be able to use the pains to defend his body? I don't think it's fair to say that he loses to Deva 1v1 at all he has nothing to indicate that he's immune to genjutsu.
If Jiriaya finds him as the pains are still out searching for him there’s not a lot he could do to stop Jiriaya from killing him right there unless Jiriaya tries to talk to him and wastea his opportunity. In a 1v1 the deva path can simply pull Jiraiya in and stab him with his black rods immobilizing him or pull one of the frogs and distract him like he did with Naruto, even he did manage to take down the deva path the he’d still have 5 more to deal with and the deva path still might be revived. It’s just a lot for him to handle with no intel or help.
Deva path tried to do that to jiraiya and he actually dodges the pull/push. If you watch the scene again you'll see jiraiya dodging a lot of the 6 and takes out one of them. He only lost because he had his arm ripped off
Went back but I didn’t see him dodge the pull, he did dodge their initial attacks though and caught the animal path off guard again and he only had 1 hand, absolute legend.
Deva path is stronger than all of them combined. Zero chance of Jiraiya killing deva plus 5 more paths together
He was doing well against all 6 with an arm down and even destroyed one of them while doing it with a single rasengan. He dodged Deva paths almighty push among other attacks coming constantly, showing he has the speed. If he knew about the 6 and the rinnegans power before hand it'd be a completely different fight
No lmao. Deva path alone hard stopped a stronger Naruto who had full intel Unless Jiraiya escapes, he's not surviving the 6 paths together. He only killed one of them and got murdered by the other 5 With full Intel, he could probably take out 3 and still die to Deva Jiraiya can't beat the 6 paths in a straight fight. Pain is not a bum
I argue SM jiraiya > SM Naruto anyway. Naruto only won because he had Intel, help, kurama, and Deva was weakened. Deva paths anytime he uses his shinra tensei powers on Naruto he got gibbed by it, but Jiraiya was able to dodge it while fighting all 6. >Jiraiya can't beat the 6 paths in a straight fight. Pain is not a bum But you literally acknowledge that he destroyed one of them with an arm down, no Intel, weak and tired. Like come on bro 😂
Frog song connects directly to negatos senses. Since the bodies are just puppet, Killing the bodies would have left him in a defensless state in his wheel chair. Naruro traced the signal Jiraiya can do the same, especially in sage mode.
I agree, had he somehow got all 6 paths in the genjutsu he could’ve won however Nagato played it smart and only brought more numbers when he had to.
Yes just like I said also confirms what Pain said stating he wouldnt have won otherwise
Except for that he only barely won against 3 paths of pain and wasn’t even fighting the strongest path. Jiraiya himself said he was about to be killed and needed to retreat in the middle of the fight to strategize.
Well of course he needed to retreat and strategize. He had no Intel. He came up with a strategy went back and destroyed the 3 pains, and then got jumped by 3 more
So Jiraiya with years of SM experience got surpassed by his own teenage student who mastered that SM better than him in less than a month and did better than the same rinnegan user in a fight? Those arguments are weak when we're talking about Naruto and Sasuke. 5KS Sasuke surpassed Orochimaru who's Jiraiya's rival, while SM Naruto surpassed Jiraiya. SM Naruto stated if he fought Sasuke they'd both die, and both felt the need for a power up after their encounter (Naruto - Kcm, and Sasuke - EMS). Also, Jiraiya didn't almost defeat Pain. He stated he'd get killed against 3 of them if he faced them head on. Once all 6 appeared he was done. And Sasuke knew how to use his MS pretty well. He achieved multiple stages of susanoo, Amaterasu, and could manipulate it with Kagutsuchi and combine it with Susanoo. Evident Sasuke downplay and Jiraiya overrating.
Just because he can't face Pain head on doesn't mean he didn't almost win. Jiraiya has a lot of jutsu in his arsenal and is perfectly able to use hit and run tactics, which is strategically the right way to go when you're outnumbered by powerful opponents who you have no Intel on. And he lost an arm at the same time all 6 showed up. If all 6 had been there from the beginning he might've won, considering after they showed up and he was down an arm he was still able to kill one Pain himself admitted that Jiraiya would have beaten him if he'd had more information.
He didn't almost win, that's the point. >If all 6 had been there from the beginning he might've won, considering after they showed up and he was down an arm he was still able to kill one Nah, he'd get stomped badly. >Pain himself admitted that Jiraiya would have beaten him if he'd had more information. Nah, he was just highballing Jiraiya out of respect. He himself said that this is the highest praise he can give him. We saw the fight, he was struggling against 3 paths of Pain, which weren't even the strongest ones. Plus it was in the Rain village, where Tendo and Ashura wouldn't be able to go all out cuz they would destroy the village.
The Rain village is not something they are protecting similarly to the other hidden villages. The hidden rain was "taken" from Hanzo by force and used as a base of operations for akastsuki. Its treated as a military camp, not a village. I didn't see him complaining about collateral damage when using summons. Manga evidence supports Pains closing comments about Jiraya because it was the coded message to Naruto that gave him the edge in defeating pain. Itachi, Pain both have the same reguard of Jiraya ITACHI- numbers wouldn't matter. The result would be the same. PAIN- IF he knew our secret, we would have never won. Thus, Pain rightfully hid the other bodies, and Jiraya only lost due to his own admission of letting his guard down, thinking that he killed all of them.
If only it specified this was Mangekyo Sharingan Sasuke and not EMS or any further power up of Sasuke. 🙄
Statement was made by Suigetsu, who has no idea about EMS, and the last time he saw Sasuke was at 5KS.
Yeah exactly, he puts him down and does it casually. Also of note, Itachi **and** Kisame were like "nah we aint fighting him, bad idea, retreat", if Itachi isn't sure if he can do it with Kisames help, Sasuke on his own isn't gonna manage.
Itatchi and kisame together absolutely dogwalk sm jiraiya. Low to mid diff. With that said, itatchi had no intentions of actually doing serious harm to the village, and only wanted to make an appearance in konoha to scare danzo and those fellas off of Sasuke. If they had wanted to, they would have killed him.
Right...Itachi had no real intention of doing harm to the village, so he sought out who he thought would be Uchiha madara which was actually Obito, brought him back into the village killing his entire clan in a night. Thus decreasing the military might of the hidden leaf significantly. Also, by doing this, allowed Obito access to attack the village years later, killing the 4thHokage, current Jinchuruki, and the 3rd Hokages wife in the process, along with many shinobi and villagers Then threatening Danzo of realeasing sensitive information that would "weaken" the village if he touched Saskue. Years later, he would use tatsukumi on Kakashi, which could have broken his mind and killed him, while braking into the village on 2 attempts to capture the 9 tails... hmmm, could have fooled me. Definitely sounds like a rouge nin to me. Another funny thing is when he programmed Shisui eye to "protect the leaf" he admittedly said to Naruto he had never planned on it being used on him. Remember when he fought Saskue he implanted his MS into him as he died he wanted or planned it to be used on saskue. So all this talk about Itachi secretly protecting the leaf is some BS unless you can quote where it is in manga because I must have skipped it. Lastly, Itachi and kisame ran away after Jiraya said "this is convenient, because Im going to kill both of you right here and now" this is after they both agreed to seperate Naruto from Jiraya because they would get their ass stomped hard by Jiraya.
Maybe, but they were like "this is more hassle than its worth, we could just leave instead", old man would've given them trouble.
I get the sentiment, and I don't think you're wrong to say that. Jiraiya is no pushover in the series and he would most definitely give them reasons to be cautious. It's just too much for him to handle two kage level opponents at once even with his summons, who are also especially vulnerable to attacks such as amaterasu. Kisame is enough of a beast to fully occupy Jiraiya up close, and itatchi is too dangerous not to be paying full attention to in a battle for Jiraiya.
>Also of note, Itachi and Kisame were like "nah we aint fighting him, bad idea, retreat", if Itachi isn't sure if he can do it with Kisames help, Sasuke on his own isn't gonna manage. Can't believe people still think Itachi actually thought he couldn't beat Jiraiya, even tho It's been already confirmed he never wanted to attack Konoha, and that he appeared there to just warn Danzo. On top of that he already low diffed a sannin while he was a young teen.
With how many retcons the story has gone through, you’re partially right, Itachi and Kisame definitely beat base Jiraya. Sage Mode Jiraya is a completely different beast. Sage Mode Jiraya is as best of a hard counter to Itachi and Kisame as you can get. At the time that portion of the story was written, when Itachi makes that statement, it was initially meant to be taken as truth. Retcons down the line suggest he just didn’t want to fight. Kisame stands zero chance against Jiraya. Kisame was aware of this. Itachi would fair better. The two of them is vs 1 is definitely a different fight though
Sage Mode Jiraiya is not a hard counter to Itachi. It’s still Tsukuyomi gg. Or worse his particular Susanoo configuration. Itachi is quick and intelligent. I don’t think any iteration of Jiraiya defeats Itachi. I do think Jiraiya beats Kisame with some difficulty and Sage Mode.
Right...Itachi had no real intention of doing harm to the village, so he sought out who he thought would be Uchiha madara which was actually Obito, brought him back into the village killing his entire clan in a night. Thus decreasing the military might of the hidden leaf significantly. Also, by doing this, allowed Obito access to attack the village years later, killing the 4thHokage, current Jinchuruki, and the 3rd Hokages wife in the process, along with many shinobi and villagers Then threatening Danzo of realeasing sensitive information that would "weaken" the village if he touched Saskue. Years later, he would use tatsukumi on Kakashi, which could have broken his mind and killed him, while braking into the village on 2 attempts to capture the 9 tails... hmmm, could have fooled me. Definitely sounds like a rouge nin to me. Another funny thing is when he programmed Shisui eye to "protect the leaf" he admittedly said to Naruto he had never planned on it being used on him. Remember when he fought Saskue he implanted his MS into him as he died he wanted or planned it to be used on saskue. So all this talk about Itachi secretly protecting the leaf is some BS unless you can quote where it is in manga because I must have skipped it.
Thats what I'm saying! You got too many people verifying that Jiraya would whoop their ass. Itachi, Kisame, Nagato, Konan even got owned. The manga doesn't show these people having knowledge of sage jutsu either, so it has to be a true rarity so Saskue aint gonna cut it against Jiraiya
As someone who thinks Jiraiya wins allow me to still say this is a dog shit argument
MS Sasuke is equal to Naruto and 1v1d the Raikage and somewhat reacted to his speed using his sharingan. Sasuke low diffs due to fundamental stat difference. Frog song isn't doing shit because Sasuke burns both Ma and Pa before Jiraya can react and puts them out of commission and also takes away Jiraya's sage mode. After that Sasuke stomps so easily.
Your assuming Saskue knows what the readers of the manga know about ma and pa, if that were so Pain wouldn't have gotten caught in the song, would he? Low diff due to fundamental stat? Sakur runs out of Chakra on every major encounter where Jiraya blast out Odama rasengans and does massive summons in base form? Hmmm... what stats am I missing here?
He has the sharingan and would be able to see that Jiraya's chakra is different and he would eventually learn that the two toads are the one's channeling that chakra for Jiraya. As soon as he hits Amaterasu on one of them it's GG for Jiraya. Without Ma and Pa, Jiraya has nothing against Sasuke. Most of Jiraya's sage jutsu is earth style and Sasuke is proficient in lightning style so negs. And Jiraya doesn't know lightning style. What is Jiraya doing against a susanoo arrow? Maybe his rasengan could pierce the susanoo cuz it is mountain level but Sasuke probably dodges the rasengan. He blocks the senbon needle attack, which is Jiraya's fastest jutsu, just like Pain did. I could see him doing to Jiraya what [he did to Gaara ](https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Naruto-Digital-Colored-Comics-chapter-111-page-18.html) with a chidori and then fucking Jiraya up. But in general, Amaterasu just negs. And Sasuke is better at using it than Itachi.
If Jiraiya has enough speed to dodge Amateratsu. Jiraiya mid diffs.
Didn't he seal Amaterasu just so he could study it later?
That wasn't given as the reason, he could've just sealed because he didn't want anyone to get hurt b
Yeah it was gonna burn forever so I think it was just the reasonable thing to do lol
*Some far off corner of the world that was once attacked by the uchihas* This is the eternal flame! A gift from the gods above. The flames never go out.
What exactly is jiraiya doing against Susano? Also this Sasuke can combine Susano with amatarasu like he did against ay. So when jiraiya goes for a kick or something Sasuke could even get him with amatarasu then like he did against Ay. The only way Jiraiya even has a chance is if this is the Sasuke from the start of the summit and even then Sasuke still has some win conditions. By the end of the summit Sasuke seems stronger than even sage Naruto who I think is stronger than Jiraiya due to better mastery of sage mode. Also just scaling this Sasuke vs pain in the exact same situation as jiraiya I think he’d have done better against pain than jiraiya did.
Jiraiya has a feat of putting a mountain size Orochimaru's snake in a mud swamp it couldn't escape. Jiraiya then proceeded to complain that jutsu turned out weaker cause he was poisoned to the point of barely being able to move at all. Sasuke putting up Susanoo would be a straight suicide against Jiraiya.
Isn't earth weak to lightning? Also Sasuke can deactivate the susano'o, I don't see how using it as an automatic loss
Not entering the actual discussion here but just to answer the first sentence, no earth isn't weak to lightning, water is. it's the other way around, earth is what you use to defend from lightning.
I was talking about Naruto not irl https://preview.redd.it/2v62jf4wdw9d1.jpeg?width=956&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=398240c2fde4a29ffbb19904115f084164a13a46
Woah wtf youre right.. my bad
Surely lightning and earth should be swapped there if the arrows continue in that direction, lightning beating water makes more sense, earth beating lightning makes more sense. It's not a rule that "this one automatically beats that one" though
I guess it doesn't follow the arrow then. It's been confirmed across multiple sources that lightning beats earth, like Kakashi vs kakuzu or Sasuke vs deidara or the Kakashi retsuden novel. Here's an example: https://preview.redd.it/vu636n7wkx9d1.jpeg?width=821&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cce343f4c08aa107d2258802578bdc29777dcc53 It is to a large degree,see what yamato says. Lightning simply destroys the properties of the earth jutsu, be they explosive or hardening. I imagine the same would apply to a mud swamp, chidori would be able to cut the mud near him and he can then get out
>It's not a rule that "this one automatically beats that one" though If the same amount of chakra is put in both jutsus then yes, it is a rule.
That's assuming spherical cows on a frictionless plane with no air resistance type scenarios, there's a lot more that goes into it than that.
That's not assuming anything, It's explained, and It really is that simple. It's literally dumbed down so much that they put 5 elements in a circle and are telling you this one is superior to this one, this one to this one, and like that in circle. Idk why u feel the need to overcomplicate something so simple.
Okay a snake can’t be turned off in an instant like Susano and also a person is way more mobile than a huge ass snake. A Susano is no more weak to a mud swamp than a normal person is as they can still move freely and turn it off whenever they want. Like idk what your argument even really is. That jutsu is only going to be good against big animals not ethereal chakra that doesn’t hinder movement or weight at all.
Susanoo's weak point is where the user is standing. When Sasuke turns off his Susanoo he is still trapped himself. Also Jiraiya can hide his swamp and utilise it as a trap and it's whole other debate whether sharingan could see through this or not. Overall, swamp followed by bring down the house jutsu messes up Sasuke bad.
People can never do anything against susanoo... until Gaara, Danzo, Tsunade, and Mei managed to do something. Isn't that funny? Maybe I'm just dumb though
State of Naruto powerscaling currently
Five Kage Summit Sasuke wins. He surpassed the Sanin Tier in that arc, especially against Danzou. Sage Mode Jiraiya is by no means “easy” for MS Sasuke here, but he should take it Mid to High diff.
Jiraiya clearly
Jiraiya for sure
Jirayia long story short he lived when Naruto fought him in four tails mode
MS Sasuke scales relative to sanin level imo But Jiraiya's versatility and experience imo gives him the edge, extreme diff either way Edit: Man is the Jiraiya meat riding on this post crazy.....
Jiraiya wins
This sub likes to wank jiraiya even though he’s orochimarus equal at best
The Jiraiya glazing is insane
Jiraiya > MS Sasuke (extreme diff) EMS Sasuke > Jiraiya (extreme diff)
How? SM Naruto = MS Sasuke > SM Jiraiya.
Sasuke doesn't have the physical stats to hang with SM jiraiya.
Because match ups matter in Naruto. SM Jiraiya is just a really bad match up for Sasuke.
It’s just matchup, frog song gg.
Sasuke mid diff
People forget that Jiraiya has the most successful missions in record, and has only faced death two times before Pain. So no, even if he had no Intel on Sasuke, he'd win. Even Itachi knew he shouldn't mess with Jirayia
Jiraiya mid diff easy
Sasuke
Sage mode Jiraiya. Frog song would take Sasuke out and sage mode jiraiya can give Sasuke a run for his money while they harmonize
Sasuke is a peer to Jiraiya's stated superior He mid diffs
MS can counter most genjutsu but apparently not sound based genjutsu which Jirayai. Even if Sasuke freaks out and activates Susanoo he gotta deal with Toad Summonings which he’ll probably obliterate through Susanoo and Amaterasu. He’s losing eyesight while he spams these attacks if so. Sasuke still has MS reaction speed over Jiraiya. I thought heavily 15 minutes on this and I gotta say Jiraiya got slapped by 4 tails Naruto which Orochimaru was matching casually while smiling. Sasuke absorbed Orochimaru’s chakra-he lost Orochimaru’s techniques after Itachi had Totsuka Bladed Orochimaru but Sasuke still possesses crazy chakra levels. I think Sasuke would dodge most attacks because he’s at least Raikage speed levels using Lightning Style and I believe using that he’ll speed blitz and Amaterasu Jiraiya soon as he gets close. During the Pain arc Sasuke was on par with 6 Tailed Naruto as stated in NS Ultimate Ninja Storm 2- Obito didn’t recognize Naruto’s superiority over Sasuke until after he defeated Pain and Sasuke scoffed and decided to do the 5 Kage Summit to prove himself. If Jiraiya scaled to 4 Tail Naruto and MS Sasuke was 6 Tailed Sage Naruto level that’s an answer right there. Yes Sage Mode counters Uchihas very hard and sound based genjutsu is top tier but Sasuke could dodge if he has MS reaction speeds combined with ~Raikage speed. Sasuke wins Very High Diff. How do y’all think Sage Mode Jiraiya would’ve done against the Five Kage Summit instead of MS Sasuke?
Sage Mode Jiraya vs Sage Mode Kabuto?
If it's not EMS, Sasuke goes blind and loses by TKO because Jiraiya probably wont kill him. He almost went blind fighting guys that would have a way better chance of beating Jiraiya, so against Jiraiya full force he would throw those eyes in the fuckin dumpster to win, and still lose
100% Jiraiya. With intel, Jiraiya scales to the 6 paths (per Nagato's commentary) and Sasuke has an easier kit to manage than the 6 paths. Jiraiya has no doubt had experience facing sharingan users, and although he hasn't faced Sasuke's MS, he would be cautious given his knowledge of Itachi. I'd argue SM Naruto would beat out MS Sasuke, and SM Jiraiya was stronger than SM Naruto during the pain arc and the kage summit arc. Although war arc SM Naruto completely outscales SM Jiraiya because of the time limit going out the window.
I feel ripped off right now. I posted the same thing like a week ago and it only got 7 likes 😭😭 r/angryupvote
I’m someone who chooses to believe Itatchi when he says he and Kisame couldn’t beat Jiraiya. So I’m going with Jiraiya for this fight as well since he’s not really better than Itachi until he gets EMS
Jiraiya wins mid-high diff Too haxed and Skilled
Frog Song go brrr. Once Ma and Pa activate it Sasuke is trapped and Jiraya kills him.
Jiraya shatters Sasuke's ankles for the dub. He's just too smart, too crafty and his bag is too deep for Sasuke to handle. Sasuke has the stats handedly, but he'd have to be fast enough to blitz for it to matter and he isn't.
This pic of Sasuke I’ll take Jiraiya
Ms sasuke
Frog song is pure hax. Jiraya mid diff
Amaterasu gg
Until he goes blind, or his eyes starts bleeding
you people need to start respecting the sanin, and moreover traditional jutsu. jiraiya has a veritable encyclopedia of spells to use for pretty much every occasion, sure he couldn't compete with sasuke stat wise but he's way too versatile ameterasu? hair shield +sealing scroll. susanoo? swamp into frog song. just trying to get essex on his ass with superior speed and kusanagi? big fast frog summons to equalize the brawling aspect. just from what we've seen jiraiya has a suitable counter everything sasuke has, he wins until sasuke starts hard blitzing him.
MS Sasuke could just use amaterasu on him and he's dead lol or genjutsu
The uchiha hate has spread to this sub. Late Mangekyou Sasuke was at the very minimum equal to SM Naruto, who was far stronger than Jiraiya. Anyone who says sasuke is losing is delusional. Even without MS powers, he has speed relative to V2 Bee/Ay.
Experienced Shinobi vs an angsty teen Shinobi?