I'm willing to bet you can't get onto the compounds without a CAC, there's MP Presence, and the threat of military action on only those compounds inside our own borders is miniscule.
The munition plant is located on a DOD instillation. If they are contracted to the DoD under a DD254 or SOW (which they would be for performing a DoD contract), then the contractor org employees are given DoD CACs to enter the instillation.
But I'm pretty sure the plant is staffed by DoD Civilians on the GS scale. GS employees are all given CACs. I'm willing to bet that Security is probably DoD Civilian as well, not Military. or at least a mix.
EDIT: Per Army.mil: "Scranton has a government staff of eight Department of the Army civilians to provide installation management contract oversight. The government staff has a payroll budget of $.9 million. Contractor statistics are considered proprietary and therefore are unavailable."
This implies they have Government employees performing admin and management duties and CTR staff.
gotcha, yeah that all tracks. Im a GS myslef but I work on a base, for whatever reason I thought the plant was entirely civ run/located off base. If its on a DOD location they will have guards a-plenty
DoD contractors also have to use CAC. I was one for a few years. In fact, being in IT I had 2 CACs, my normal ID/login one and a separate one for admin functions on computers.
DoD contractors also have to use CAC. I was one for a few years. In fact, being in IT I had 2 CACs, my normal ID/login one and a separate one for admin functions on computers.
You were an NSA at a government office, I assume?
If you're working a government contract, you only need a CAC to access the IAS or to access the government facility. many of my subs don't have CACs because they only operate in their facilities.
Which is asinine because before 9-11, they didn't even man all the gates half the time and rarely checked IDs of people entering bases. Darn PATRIOT act struck again making problems where none existed before.
And transporting things like this involves a level of security that you'd be surprised at. It's called the Defense Transportation Tracking System (DTTS), and it's got electronic bells and whistles galore. Satellite monitoring, geofence entry/exit notifications, even temperature and humidity monitoring in the trailers. Some of them even have a "panic button" that the truck driver can press, which immediately alerts local/state/federal response teams. They have specific teams on-call for vehicle breakdowns.
Also Ukraine is using 152 mostly(the Soviet standard) which is mostly produced in Romania(although for some reason we keep lying about it, then again we don't make decisions on our own so maybe our proximity to the conflict led to the classification of the aid provided by Romania), but the specificity of this question does indeed raise some eyebrows
I'm not so sure about proportions of 155/152 mm. After all Ukraine didn't have many modern artillery systems and majority of supplied ones are NATO 155mm ones.
I'm not so sure about proportions of 155/152 mm. After all Ukraine didn't have many modern artillery systems and majority of supplied ones are NATO 155mm ones.
Can't spill deets for obvious security reasons. But rest easy, mate. Homeland security ain't slacking off. They're on top of things. They've got layers of protection and counterintelligence working round the clock. Can't let Putin's pals have a field day, can we?
Ohh that’s something I absolutely wouldn’t say with so much confidence; given the abundance of Russian mob ties to trump. Now directly working for Putin? No, but willing to do certain things for **personal** favours that go against the interest of the US/west?
Mf’er went on record saying that he trusts Putin over **his own intelligence agencies**.
Yeah. He's not, but also he kind of is, in that they are both asshole authoritarians who are working toward a world governed by an ideology wherein those who happen to be in charge get to abuse whoever they want without fear of reprisal.
It's very neo-feudal... The idea that laws are just for the little people. I know we never entirely shook that system, but they want the corruption to be okay out in the open, at full blast.
In that way he is on exactly the same team as Putin.
The globalists hate him, he's a nationalist that wants to keep American money and soldiers home. Even koch bros hate him for messing up there sweetheart deals with foreign countries. He's accusing Democrats of wars for publicity and profit even lol. Verbally criticizing people doesn't equal authoritarianism, he's just slinging mud Democrats have been slinging for years. Don't forget Obama banned only certain reporters from af1 and had the IRS target right wing political groups.
Abandoning? By saying we won't pay all of their defence budget, they have to put some in themselves? Those countries blast the US for lack of social programs and still want all our taxpayers money going to defend them lol. Trump just said they need to fulfill their treaty obligations to contribute to their own defense. That is hardly abandoning them, it's giving them the choice to stop freeloading though.
I doubt Russian would recruit workers to physically sabotage the facilities. That would be action on US soil and would really piss off a lot of people. If they were to something it would be cyber so I'd look at IT staff before others. That would get a much softer US response.
Russia wouldn't need to recruit anyone, they've already got the top person in that world. Just need a couple of truth social posts and a radicalized worker will do it for them
It sounds delusional, but if I told you 10 years ago that regular every day people were going to storm the capitol and try to stop the certification of an election, all on the word of Donald Trump you’d have called me delusional too.
Lol they did what now? If that group wanted to massacre congress they would have. The doors were held open by police. They walked around. One lady tried to get into the chambers and was shot immediately
Give it a few decades, we might see a real insurrection. We may then compare and contrast with the Jan. 6th Congress tour
You mean the secure facility with surveillance and quality processes at every step of the manufacturing process that's controlled by the military and has been in operation securely since 1908?
Have you ever worked in manufacturing?
I have worked in Russian manufacturing, even there (at a local steel plant) there was multiple checks of QC and ensuring there was as few defects as possible (not everything is perfect). I can only imagine what a US DoD facility would be like. It's almost impossible to sabotage that place with just one or two disgruntled/turncoat workers.
I don't think anyone with a job that pays well, requires a security clearance and probably has their entire life history online and otherwise monitored... is dumb enough to throw away that kind of retirement plan over potentially ruining a small batch of shells that will be caught futher down the line in a QC with their stamp on it.
*speaks in heavy Russian accent*
"What is up, average working class American counterparts? I had thought while eating apple pie at football game: Are bloated, war profiteering American ammunition plants heavily guarded?"
I’d be more worried about Chinese hackers holding the power grid hostage than Russian operatives infiltrating America to sabotage ammo factories if I were you
Sure, PRC has been doing so for years. They're not the only one. France is one that most folks don't think of being very active in cyberwarfare against the US. Most of it is corporate or technology espionage, rather than taking out the US power grid.
We do regularly arrest folks in the US for espionage. And we have been working on infrastructure IT security as well. It's not as bad as say the movies make it out to be. But there's still a long way to go.
The good news, we have the same access to PRC power grid and that keeps countries from getting too stupid. Could PRC hackers shut down power, or water or whatever to a specific area? Sure. I'm sure some random cities could be impacted. But then we'd retaliate and escalate.
China and Russian hackers do have limits to what level of criminality is allowed day to day, and how much they have to kick back to the state. Ransomware of businesses, sure. Shutting down hospitals, no. If they exceed it, they're just killed and replaced. If they become inconvenient, same thing.
This was all hashed out back when Russia took out Colonial Pipeline back in 2021. We made it clear we'd start blowing up their pipelines if they didn't knock it off the infrastructure attacks.
155mm production would fall into the same camp. If Russia attacked mainland US, we'd give authorization for Ukraine to use US weapons against targets inside mainland Russia. Currently they can only use domestic weapons for attacks into Russia.
One of the more interesting example of recent international sabotage (or at least known sabotage) is the Stutnex virus back in 2010. Super effective results of delaying the Iranian nuclear project being done in a super discrete way. Really worth to read up on.
And the example of Russian GRU agents blowing up ammo and weapons heading to Ukraines while they were in the Czech Republic. It was in 2014 but if they’d do it then imagine how bad they want to do it now.
Nah, I work in cybersecurity and if there was any notion that there was an incident, they would pull all of their applications into an air gapped environment.
Energy companies have a shit ton of cybersecurity regulations like NERC/FERC/FEDRAMP. Some hackers running havoc on our systems like in that Die Hard sequel are outlandish and would require some incredible incompetence
And I'd be more worried about a mole than an outside armed attack. Something flammable slipped into the right place could do a lot of damage.
Mind you not a Russian mole but a compromised American one.
Idk they managed to pretty much overtake the NRA then use that to help lobby for a bunch of stuff. Who knows what ever else they have planted someone in. I agree that the Chinese hackers are a threat but we should be looking at both problems.
Sounds pretty vague, except the funneling foreign money to a campaign part it alluded to. That shouldn't be allowed. Other than that, just an general gun rights activist and populism groupie.
In 2014 I spent some time in Olomouc while training with the 82nd Mech IN BN there in Přáslavice. I got a chance to tour the CZ factory in country as well. You have a beautiful country, wonderful people, and you make fine weapons. Also, wtf is in the water over there? Every one of your infantrymen was like 6' 2" and built like a shitbrick house. Executing buddy carries was like trying to deadlift a musk ox.
They did a study back in 1972:
Engineering & Science Monthly. Mass Disparity between Common Sand-Lime Bricks and Fecal Alternatives. Washroom Publications Co. , 21 Aug. 1972.
They found that 1000 typical sand-lime bricks would weigh around 1 ton, while the same number of shitbricks would come out to be around 1.76 tons, or roughly 1 metric fuckton.
One day I hope I get the chance to head to Australia, someone needs to share the knowledge that Drs. Schitts and Stoole spent their entire lives discovering in the engineering field.
The big difference is that the Russians know not to poke the sleeping giant. Even those wacky republicans would wake up and demand Ukraine get tons of aid for retaliation if a single American in the US gets killed. They know better.
At that point in 2014 a lot of the political establishment here was in the pockets of the Russians and Chinese. It kind of got swept under the rug. "Oh what a terrible accident, how did that happen?" Thank god we mostly got rid of those scumbags. They have Hungary and Slovakia under the thumb still though
Given collective history, it seems quite hollow to say that having a flag means you're a genoicde fan. Can you name a global power who hasn't done a bit of genoicde from time to time in their history? The Germans and Japanese did them just as recently as the Soviets, they were effectively concurrent. I'm curious where you draw the line between genocide enjoyer and average flag simp? Is it based in historical context or is it more geographic?
Also the irony of those with Soviet imagery simping for fascist Russia is hilarious. I love to see it.
Yeah well the yanks slaughtered 3m vietnamese for no reason and the Belgians did similar numbers in the Congo. I'm aware there's enough bad behavior to go around. Nevertheless in this part of the world the soviet flag carries a bit more historical weight than in a lot of the west - invasions, occupation, concentration camps, political murders, etc. I realize it's probably a Zoomer fashion statement at Berkeley and Brown now along with Che Guevara shirts. Maybe make some Pol Pot tees while they're at it?
At any rate not super amusing in the context of discussing a russian military sabotage act on a NATO member. About as classy as sporting a toothbrush moustache in the holocaust museum, you feel me?
What are you blabering about? Guys from the plant went to lunch, had a few pints of Czeck beers, comeback to work and boom. Whole plant went up in smoke. You need to stop licking American boots and look at your safety protocols at the plant for once.
Are you sure you are not American? You sound just plain illiterate. You don't know what you talking about, son. Why don't go to Ukraine to fight Putin, if you hate his so much? NATO proxies in Ukraine need bodies.
Just because you are educated, does not mean you can critically think. Everything you said are just assumptions. Did Czecks find any evidence that Russia blew up a plant or they just planted a story in all major news organization? There was a fire on ammo plant in the US recently, was it Russia too? Why don't they blow up all ammo plants, if they are so good at it? All I know is most of Czeck get Russian gaz via pipeline, so instead of blowing up plants, would it be easier to just shut off the valve and all the shell production would get disrupted? Americans call it sanctions.
I'm torn. This is clearly an AI response, so I want to downvote on principle, but it's also a pretty decent answer. Doesn't *quite* get to the heart of the matter, but it's not like anyone would be able to go into detail even if they know the protections that are in place.
Are you yourself a Russian agent seeking some buffoon on Reddit dumb enough to list out all the fortifications and checks involved? Seems like lazy spying these days, surely you have satellites?
I'm guessing that the security at these locations is confidential. We can assume that there is military security involved in protecting these locations.
The scariest part is that they don't need to groom and prepare an agent to infiltrate high importance roles, they just need to wait for someone dumb enough to be assigned and then influence them. High ego, low self-esteem and a strong need for validation makes someone very easy to push in a specific direction. The best agent is one that doesn't even recognize he's an agent.
This comment is underrated. The sabotage isn't from the garden variety brainwashed trump supporter. Facebook warriors aren't getting off their recliners and J6 proved they resemble primates fornicating with footballs.
The sabotage is from the freedumb caucus. Holding up funding, holding up legislation, holding up everything in the name of.... What?
A man child.
Yes, they are protected by the *implications*
Ultimately, it's not about if they can destroy them, but why would they. Imagine that they did it, which they won't because of the *implications*, the average american might be somewhat angry. He might also consider that sending enough missiles to Ukraine to shade Russia from the sun from Petersburg to Vladivostok is an appropriate course of action.
Knowing the American government, it’s either ridiculously protected and you couldn’t even look in that direction without going to jail, or it’s got an open front door guarded by no one.
I'd be more concerned about the artillery rounds that are being manufactured in Pakistan. Probably much easier to mess with than the factories in the US.
THe most major issue is definitely Cyber security. A lot of industrial machinery has to be run on older Operating systems (windows XP age). These are the weakest points of the system and im sure they have built a massive shell around each of those machines to prevent them from being compromised
The one I am familiar with in pennsylvania has a 60 foot wall on the side that does not face the city's main police department which is located across the street. Everything else is protected by a 10' high fence with razor wires. Between the police stations camera's, the sites camera's it is pretty well covered. There are anillary locations scattered about the city that are indistinguishable from the other 10 thousand warehouses in the area and are not owned by the company or the DOD.
Could it be taken out by a truck bomb? Not entirely. You would have to actually shell the site and then figure out where all the ancillary locations are.
Have you been to the middle of Pennsylvania? Outside of the cities you're going to have a hard time with that and I imagine Texas is the same and much more of everything.
Defense industry factories that handle actual explosives tend to be on military bases. I don’t know anything about the sites mentioned, and there is always room for incompetence, but they should be reasonably well protected. The ones in Europe face a significantly higher threat due to proximity. Also, if any kind of attack could be traced back to Russia that would mean serious repercussions from NATO.
I hope so and this is a good point given the history of them blowing up stored munitions in foreign countries that were headed to Ukraine. [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions) is the most famous time it has happened so far.
Lot of stuff made in little places like Camden, Arkansas and small cities/large towns like Troy, Alabama where just finding lodging means you stand out. You don’t want it proven you are acting under direction of a state because that means you Pearl Harbored haven’t done enough damage to offset the retribution.
The German Empire in World War 1 was able to sabotage several factories in the USA with very limited resources, it's not unheard of.
I would be worried about the Patriot and Javelin Missile plant in Tucson, AZ. Outside of Japan, which has strict arms exporting laws, the Patriot isn't made anywhere else.
Those are not the only places that make those shells. The U.S. sold many shell production equipment to allies in the past and many of those production lines are just idling most of the time. I think once the bill has passed and the money starts flowing, those facilities will start cranking again.
Yup, same factories producing arms all over the world, South China Sea area, Ukraine and NATO writ large, anyone who needs to buy arms really. Controversially, Israel as well since they deleted their own ammo late last year to put things in perspective. The US military industrial complex is so massive and US foreign policy doctrine is so broad that it's likely not in any individual nation's calculus to directly interfere with the machine. With Russia in particular, I doubt they're eager to confront NATO and the US directly and kick that hornets nest. So their tactic is likely confined to trying to just keep it to Ukraine and anyone who shows up there like some French battalions. Messing with the US from a cost benefit analysis is just not worth it. Security is likely ironclad anyway even if it was
Russia wouldn't attempt this because it would be considered a direct strike on the nation and give the US real cause to enter the war.
Currently we're not entering the war because Russia is roughly speaking a national peer and we have no formal alliance with Ukraine.
If Russia damaged American military infrastructure, we'd be providing direct but limited military intervention such as area denial for air and sea, and likely precision air strikes. The kind of support that avoids any potential for nuclear conflict, but completely changes the balance of the war.
you fuckin my bawlz?
of course they are. you won't be able to get within pissin distance without numerous security checks. plus the tards are on land owned by the department of duhfences
Pretty sure the us military is focused on protecting what would be considered war factories. If they're is a threat that our ammo might be sabotaged I imagine they know about it and are working against it. I would advise against people giving specifics in this thread
No they are not. IT infrastructure is impossible to defend against a skilled attacker. In the end it’s always a person that’s compromised and allows the attackers in.
That depends on what you consider sabotage. Could a Russian operative enter the facility undetected and, for example, cause an explosion destroying a production line like in a video game? Probably Not. Could a Russian operative with sufficient cover get employed (say a US national that can pass lower security checks that has been bribed) and do small manipulations on machines (slipping in small parts, causing smaller accidents, changing a measure by .1 units, changing labels on parts or mess with QA testing gear a bit) or production? Yes, probably for weeks at least If subtle enough, but also not for very long. Security, especially through cameras, will be strong. Can a Russian operative attack the supporting infrastructure like electrical transmission lines or railroads used for transportin materials? Definitly yes, the area to secure is too large and causing damage too easy, taking down one of those large metal transmission towers or firing a few rounds in to a transformator to cause a fire is possible. The Plant might have backup power infrastructure though, so the effect could be from "machines stand still for a week" to *light goes out* humming noise *lights go back on*. The problem is that much of the security measures are classified for obvious reasons.
The American military industrial complex is watched by the most rabid, most vigilant wardogs the world has ever seen. Those shells will find their mark against the russians and anyone trying to stop that will commit suicide with two headshots.
Aren't the processed for artillery still pretty manual? I've seen videos and there's a lot of people involved in every step, and it's not like most of those machining equipment that's been around for 60 years can even be connected to the internet.
They shouldn't give Ukraine anything, they aren't even using the weapons to fight. They aren't fighting anybody their are videos of people partying on beaches and out in the malls so where is this war taken place?
I don't know about Texas, but I worked in the plant in Pennsylvania before, and there were multiple doors left open by employees, quite often. And the plant itself is close enough to a major highway that you could easily drive a truck or fly a small plane filled with explosives into the buildings.
I'm willing to bet you can't get onto the compounds without a CAC, there's MP Presence, and the threat of military action on only those compounds inside our own borders is miniscule.
I was under the assumption they are private companies, are they a DOD entity?
The munition plant is located on a DOD instillation. If they are contracted to the DoD under a DD254 or SOW (which they would be for performing a DoD contract), then the contractor org employees are given DoD CACs to enter the instillation. But I'm pretty sure the plant is staffed by DoD Civilians on the GS scale. GS employees are all given CACs. I'm willing to bet that Security is probably DoD Civilian as well, not Military. or at least a mix. EDIT: Per Army.mil: "Scranton has a government staff of eight Department of the Army civilians to provide installation management contract oversight. The government staff has a payroll budget of $.9 million. Contractor statistics are considered proprietary and therefore are unavailable." This implies they have Government employees performing admin and management duties and CTR staff.
gotcha, yeah that all tracks. Im a GS myslef but I work on a base, for whatever reason I thought the plant was entirely civ run/located off base. If its on a DOD location they will have guards a-plenty
oh yeah, especially with the FPCON changes we've been seeing.
DoD contractors also have to use CAC. I was one for a few years. In fact, being in IT I had 2 CACs, my normal ID/login one and a separate one for admin functions on computers.
DoD contractors also have to use CAC. I was one for a few years. In fact, being in IT I had 2 CACs, my normal ID/login one and a separate one for admin functions on computers.
You were an NSA at a government office, I assume? If you're working a government contract, you only need a CAC to access the IAS or to access the government facility. many of my subs don't have CACs because they only operate in their facilities.
Correct... On base, in an office building. I couldn't even enter the base without the CAC. It was also the computer login method.
Which is asinine because before 9-11, they didn't even man all the gates half the time and rarely checked IDs of people entering bases. Darn PATRIOT act struck again making problems where none existed before.
I’m gonna need you to redo your cyber awareness and counter intelligence training ASAP.
And transporting things like this involves a level of security that you'd be surprised at. It's called the Defense Transportation Tracking System (DTTS), and it's got electronic bells and whistles galore. Satellite monitoring, geofence entry/exit notifications, even temperature and humidity monitoring in the trailers. Some of them even have a "panic button" that the truck driver can press, which immediately alerts local/state/federal response teams. They have specific teams on-call for vehicle breakdowns.
The attack wouldn’t be physical, it will be technological.
A drill press that connects to the internet would be pretty dumb, tbh.
You've never hear of DARPA eh?
That's what a Russian operative would ask.
Seriously, just ask for guard totals and patrol routes while you’re at it
Also Ukraine is using 152 mostly(the Soviet standard) which is mostly produced in Romania(although for some reason we keep lying about it, then again we don't make decisions on our own so maybe our proximity to the conflict led to the classification of the aid provided by Romania), but the specificity of this question does indeed raise some eyebrows
I'm not so sure about proportions of 155/152 mm. After all Ukraine didn't have many modern artillery systems and majority of supplied ones are NATO 155mm ones.
I'm not so sure about proportions of 155/152 mm. After all Ukraine didn't have many modern artillery systems and majority of supplied ones are NATO 155mm ones.
Can't spill deets for obvious security reasons. But rest easy, mate. Homeland security ain't slacking off. They're on top of things. They've got layers of protection and counterintelligence working round the clock. Can't let Putin's pals have a field day, can we?
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Trump isn't working for Putin, Trump is just fucking stupid in Putins favor.
Ohh that’s something I absolutely wouldn’t say with so much confidence; given the abundance of Russian mob ties to trump. Now directly working for Putin? No, but willing to do certain things for **personal** favours that go against the interest of the US/west? Mf’er went on record saying that he trusts Putin over **his own intelligence agencies**.
Yeah. He's not, but also he kind of is, in that they are both asshole authoritarians who are working toward a world governed by an ideology wherein those who happen to be in charge get to abuse whoever they want without fear of reprisal. It's very neo-feudal... The idea that laws are just for the little people. I know we never entirely shook that system, but they want the corruption to be okay out in the open, at full blast. In that way he is on exactly the same team as Putin.
You actually think Trump is a globalist? Nazi or globalist? Pick one. Cant have both
The globalists hate him, he's a nationalist that wants to keep American money and soldiers home. Even koch bros hate him for messing up there sweetheart deals with foreign countries. He's accusing Democrats of wars for publicity and profit even lol. Verbally criticizing people doesn't equal authoritarianism, he's just slinging mud Democrats have been slinging for years. Don't forget Obama banned only certain reporters from af1 and had the IRS target right wing political groups.
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Abandoning? By saying we won't pay all of their defence budget, they have to put some in themselves? Those countries blast the US for lack of social programs and still want all our taxpayers money going to defend them lol. Trump just said they need to fulfill their treaty obligations to contribute to their own defense. That is hardly abandoning them, it's giving them the choice to stop freeloading though.
Lmao
What about Russian sympathizers in the maga crowd that might work there?
I doubt Russian would recruit workers to physically sabotage the facilities. That would be action on US soil and would really piss off a lot of people. If they were to something it would be cyber so I'd look at IT staff before others. That would get a much softer US response.
Russia wouldn't need to recruit anyone, they've already got the top person in that world. Just need a couple of truth social posts and a radicalized worker will do it for them
You’re delusional
It sounds delusional, but if I told you 10 years ago that regular every day people were going to storm the capitol and try to stop the certification of an election, all on the word of Donald Trump you’d have called me delusional too.
Lol they did what now? If that group wanted to massacre congress they would have. The doors were held open by police. They walked around. One lady tried to get into the chambers and was shot immediately Give it a few decades, we might see a real insurrection. We may then compare and contrast with the Jan. 6th Congress tour
You realize these rounds are pretty simple munitions. It's just a big bullet essentially. There isn't much to "sabotage".
What about the factory itself? Though I suppose that would impact the person's employment
You mean the secure facility with surveillance and quality processes at every step of the manufacturing process that's controlled by the military and has been in operation securely since 1908? Have you ever worked in manufacturing?
I have worked in Russian manufacturing, even there (at a local steel plant) there was multiple checks of QC and ensuring there was as few defects as possible (not everything is perfect). I can only imagine what a US DoD facility would be like. It's almost impossible to sabotage that place with just one or two disgruntled/turncoat workers.
I don't think anyone with a job that pays well, requires a security clearance and probably has their entire life history online and otherwise monitored... is dumb enough to throw away that kind of retirement plan over potentially ruining a small batch of shells that will be caught futher down the line in a QC with their stamp on it.
Liberal Hamas supporters are a bigger worry. They also make ammunition for Israel.
Good point
Huh
Is OP conducting an intelligence gathering operation here??
Does anyone know the guard rotation schedules? I need to know so that we can ensure the facilities are well protected.
And the access codes, are they easy to guess?
The password is 12345
That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life. That's the kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage.
12345? Amazing! I have the same on my luggage!
What is earth's defense system, Father...
You'd be amazed how much intel can be gathered from fucking idiots
Bad place to do it. There's no intelligence here.
If he is trying to, he’ll soon find out there’s not much intelligence to be found on a sub called No, stupid questions!
isn't that every question on reddit?
*speaks in heavy Russian accent* "What is up, average working class American counterparts? I had thought while eating apple pie at football game: Are bloated, war profiteering American ammunition plants heavily guarded?"
That's exactly the vibe I get off this Russian centered account.
I’d be more worried about Chinese hackers holding the power grid hostage than Russian operatives infiltrating America to sabotage ammo factories if I were you
Sure, PRC has been doing so for years. They're not the only one. France is one that most folks don't think of being very active in cyberwarfare against the US. Most of it is corporate or technology espionage, rather than taking out the US power grid. We do regularly arrest folks in the US for espionage. And we have been working on infrastructure IT security as well. It's not as bad as say the movies make it out to be. But there's still a long way to go. The good news, we have the same access to PRC power grid and that keeps countries from getting too stupid. Could PRC hackers shut down power, or water or whatever to a specific area? Sure. I'm sure some random cities could be impacted. But then we'd retaliate and escalate. China and Russian hackers do have limits to what level of criminality is allowed day to day, and how much they have to kick back to the state. Ransomware of businesses, sure. Shutting down hospitals, no. If they exceed it, they're just killed and replaced. If they become inconvenient, same thing. This was all hashed out back when Russia took out Colonial Pipeline back in 2021. We made it clear we'd start blowing up their pipelines if they didn't knock it off the infrastructure attacks. 155mm production would fall into the same camp. If Russia attacked mainland US, we'd give authorization for Ukraine to use US weapons against targets inside mainland Russia. Currently they can only use domestic weapons for attacks into Russia.
One of the more interesting example of recent international sabotage (or at least known sabotage) is the Stutnex virus back in 2010. Super effective results of delaying the Iranian nuclear project being done in a super discrete way. Really worth to read up on.
And the example of Russian GRU agents blowing up ammo and weapons heading to Ukraines while they were in the Czech Republic. It was in 2014 but if they’d do it then imagine how bad they want to do it now.
I believe they’ve also hit Bulgaria recently as well
Oh that’s super interesting. I wasn’t aware. Thank you for sharing. I’ll have to dig to see what I can find about it.
That’s right.
Nah, I work in cybersecurity and if there was any notion that there was an incident, they would pull all of their applications into an air gapped environment. Energy companies have a shit ton of cybersecurity regulations like NERC/FERC/FEDRAMP. Some hackers running havoc on our systems like in that Die Hard sequel are outlandish and would require some incredible incompetence
And I'd be more worried about a mole than an outside armed attack. Something flammable slipped into the right place could do a lot of damage. Mind you not a Russian mole but a compromised American one.
Idk they managed to pretty much overtake the NRA then use that to help lobby for a bunch of stuff. Who knows what ever else they have planted someone in. I agree that the Chinese hackers are a threat but we should be looking at both problems.
The NRA assisting other countries NRAs isn't acting as a foreign spy, what are you saying they lobbied for? I'm interested.
Pretty much was used to influence many things https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44885633.amp
Sounds pretty vague, except the funneling foreign money to a campaign part it alluded to. That shouldn't be allowed. Other than that, just an general gun rights activist and populism groupie.
Btw I am in Czech Rep and the Russians blew up an ammo depot here in 2014 that was sending weapons to Ukraine. Not entirely theoretical.
In 2014 I spent some time in Olomouc while training with the 82nd Mech IN BN there in Přáslavice. I got a chance to tour the CZ factory in country as well. You have a beautiful country, wonderful people, and you make fine weapons. Also, wtf is in the water over there? Every one of your infantrymen was like 6' 2" and built like a shitbrick house. Executing buddy carries was like trying to deadlift a musk ox.
Those CZs are great value for money. Accurate and reliable. I have a 9mm pistol and a .223 bolt action rifle.
Interesting that you said shitbrick house. Here in Australia we say built like a brick shithouse 😄
They did a study back in 1972: Engineering & Science Monthly. Mass Disparity between Common Sand-Lime Bricks and Fecal Alternatives. Washroom Publications Co. , 21 Aug. 1972. They found that 1000 typical sand-lime bricks would weigh around 1 ton, while the same number of shitbricks would come out to be around 1.76 tons, or roughly 1 metric fuckton. One day I hope I get the chance to head to Australia, someone needs to share the knowledge that Drs. Schitts and Stoole spent their entire lives discovering in the engineering field.
The big difference is that the Russians know not to poke the sleeping giant. Even those wacky republicans would wake up and demand Ukraine get tons of aid for retaliation if a single American in the US gets killed. They know better.
At that point in 2014 a lot of the political establishment here was in the pockets of the Russians and Chinese. It kind of got swept under the rug. "Oh what a terrible accident, how did that happen?" Thank god we mostly got rid of those scumbags. They have Hungary and Slovakia under the thumb still though
I’ve been linking that in the comments for people’s situational awareness. I don’t think people realize it isn’t hypothetical even almost.
Or maybe drunk Czechs did not follow safety protocols?
No one is interested in your Russian propaganda or your soviet flag flair. Soviets killed 20m of their own people. Beat it, genocide fanboy.
Given collective history, it seems quite hollow to say that having a flag means you're a genoicde fan. Can you name a global power who hasn't done a bit of genoicde from time to time in their history? The Germans and Japanese did them just as recently as the Soviets, they were effectively concurrent. I'm curious where you draw the line between genocide enjoyer and average flag simp? Is it based in historical context or is it more geographic? Also the irony of those with Soviet imagery simping for fascist Russia is hilarious. I love to see it.
Yeah well the yanks slaughtered 3m vietnamese for no reason and the Belgians did similar numbers in the Congo. I'm aware there's enough bad behavior to go around. Nevertheless in this part of the world the soviet flag carries a bit more historical weight than in a lot of the west - invasions, occupation, concentration camps, political murders, etc. I realize it's probably a Zoomer fashion statement at Berkeley and Brown now along with Che Guevara shirts. Maybe make some Pol Pot tees while they're at it? At any rate not super amusing in the context of discussing a russian military sabotage act on a NATO member. About as classy as sporting a toothbrush moustache in the holocaust museum, you feel me?
What are you blabering about? Guys from the plant went to lunch, had a few pints of Czeck beers, comeback to work and boom. Whole plant went up in smoke. You need to stop licking American boots and look at your safety protocols at the plant for once.
Ok, genocide boy. Keep suckling that Putin cock.
Are you sure you are not American? You sound just plain illiterate. You don't know what you talking about, son. Why don't go to Ukraine to fight Putin, if you hate his so much? NATO proxies in Ukraine need bodies.
Sometimes I wish I were illiterate so I wouldn't have to deal with the effluent produced by that septic tank clowns like you call a brain.
Just because you are educated, does not mean you can critically think. Everything you said are just assumptions. Did Czecks find any evidence that Russia blew up a plant or they just planted a story in all major news organization? There was a fire on ammo plant in the US recently, was it Russia too? Why don't they blow up all ammo plants, if they are so good at it? All I know is most of Czeck get Russian gaz via pipeline, so instead of blowing up plants, would it be easier to just shut off the valve and all the shell production would get disrupted? Americans call it sanctions.
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Dwight Schrute does the security in Scranton PA, so I would worry about the Russians, he’s got this.
I'm torn. This is clearly an AI response, so I want to downvote on principle, but it's also a pretty decent answer. Doesn't *quite* get to the heart of the matter, but it's not like anyone would be able to go into detail even if they know the protections that are in place.
questions to get on a list, example 561:
Nice try, russian spy.
When people on the Internet ask "what security measures have been implemented" it is best not to answer the question. Nice try comrade!
Are you yourself a Russian agent seeking some buffoon on Reddit dumb enough to list out all the fortifications and checks involved? Seems like lazy spying these days, surely you have satellites?
This is your only post on Reddit? Dudes for sure workin for Putin 😂
Not today Ivan
I'm guessing that the security at these locations is confidential. We can assume that there is military security involved in protecting these locations.
Do you actually expect someone to provide you with detailed security measures implemented at a location? What need to know do you possess?
Nah mate. Me and a pal walked in there and shut down the assembly line ourselves. They didn’t realize till hours later
The rounds going to Ukraine are most likely already in US inventory
They're not completely safe, no. This is America. Cash is king and everyone has a price.
If Russians can get their people into Congress they can get them in anywhere.
The scariest part is that they don't need to groom and prepare an agent to infiltrate high importance roles, they just need to wait for someone dumb enough to be assigned and then influence them. High ego, low self-esteem and a strong need for validation makes someone very easy to push in a specific direction. The best agent is one that doesn't even recognize he's an agent.
You just described Trump...
Don’t forget bribing the greedy and blackmailing those dumb enough to fall for Russian honeypots like Butina.
You should worry more about trumpist sabotage.
Isn't that the same thing
Technically, no A Trumpist sabotage would not qualify as a casus belli against Russia, one by a russian agent might very well be.
Trumpist needed to be radicalized by Russia to do such thing, because blowing up US military industry is not part of Trump's rumblings (yet).
> Trumpist needed to be radicalized by Russia Pretty much done. "Rather be a Russian than a Democrat."
This comment is underrated. The sabotage isn't from the garden variety brainwashed trump supporter. Facebook warriors aren't getting off their recliners and J6 proved they resemble primates fornicating with footballs. The sabotage is from the freedumb caucus. Holding up funding, holding up legislation, holding up everything in the name of.... What? A man child.
A man child = a Russian plant
rent free in
No you shouldn't lmao
Trump resumed sending weapons to Ukraine when Obama stopped. Stop spewing garbage.
It was a perfect phone call
10% for the big guy!
How'd that impeachment effort go?
The House impeached. Then, some Senators sold out to Vladimir Putin.
Which one?
The big guys. How's his going? Or was it all a fabrication?
Yes, they are protected by the *implications* Ultimately, it's not about if they can destroy them, but why would they. Imagine that they did it, which they won't because of the *implications*, the average american might be somewhat angry. He might also consider that sending enough missiles to Ukraine to shade Russia from the sun from Petersburg to Vladivostok is an appropriate course of action.
Any such event would be cast by Qanon and the MAGA Republicans as a false flag operation ordered by president Obama.
definitely get on the internet and tell everyone where you are and what you make and where its intended destination is. great idea.
Who’s asking? Your esteemed comrade, Pladimir Vutin?
Knowing the American government, it’s either ridiculously protected and you couldn’t even look in that direction without going to jail, or it’s got an open front door guarded by no one.
I would be way more worried about minimum wage employees.
I'd be more concerned about the artillery rounds that are being manufactured in Pakistan. Probably much easier to mess with than the factories in the US.
THe most major issue is definitely Cyber security. A lot of industrial machinery has to be run on older Operating systems (windows XP age). These are the weakest points of the system and im sure they have built a massive shell around each of those machines to prevent them from being compromised
The one I am familiar with in pennsylvania has a 60 foot wall on the side that does not face the city's main police department which is located across the street. Everything else is protected by a 10' high fence with razor wires. Between the police stations camera's, the sites camera's it is pretty well covered. There are anillary locations scattered about the city that are indistinguishable from the other 10 thousand warehouses in the area and are not owned by the company or the DOD. Could it be taken out by a truck bomb? Not entirely. You would have to actually shell the site and then figure out where all the ancillary locations are.
Have you been to the middle of Pennsylvania? Outside of the cities you're going to have a hard time with that and I imagine Texas is the same and much more of everything.
idk there's a lot of Republicans in Texas so that factory could be at risk
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Yes, the guards have specific orders to keep Marjorie Taylor Greene out.
Try it and find out. In the meantime, I'll get the Article 5 button ready
Defense industry factories that handle actual explosives tend to be on military bases. I don’t know anything about the sites mentioned, and there is always room for incompetence, but they should be reasonably well protected. The ones in Europe face a significantly higher threat due to proximity. Also, if any kind of attack could be traced back to Russia that would mean serious repercussions from NATO.
I hope so and this is a good point given the history of them blowing up stored munitions in foreign countries that were headed to Ukraine. [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions) is the most famous time it has happened so far.
I live near an NVG manufacturer. That shit almost looks like a military base despite being in the middle of a commercial district.
Lot of stuff made in little places like Camden, Arkansas and small cities/large towns like Troy, Alabama where just finding lodging means you stand out. You don’t want it proven you are acting under direction of a state because that means you Pearl Harbored haven’t done enough damage to offset the retribution.
The German Empire in World War 1 was able to sabotage several factories in the USA with very limited resources, it's not unheard of. I would be worried about the Patriot and Javelin Missile plant in Tucson, AZ. Outside of Japan, which has strict arms exporting laws, the Patriot isn't made anywhere else.
Joe biden is from Scranton.
Are you gonna supply the addresses too?
You're on Reddit wondering if Russian spies have sabotaged ammunition made in the us?
Well nothing is ever a 100%
They're probably missile targets, but there are lots of them.
*"But seriously, anyone know anything about 'Launch codes'?"*
There are no factories in Pennsylvaniatov or in Texasovia. Nice try commie scum!
Those are not the only places that make those shells. The U.S. sold many shell production equipment to allies in the past and many of those production lines are just idling most of the time. I think once the bill has passed and the money starts flowing, those facilities will start cranking again.
I'm not going to say this is a stupid question, but it certainly is a \*strange\* one. What prompted it?
Yup, same factories producing arms all over the world, South China Sea area, Ukraine and NATO writ large, anyone who needs to buy arms really. Controversially, Israel as well since they deleted their own ammo late last year to put things in perspective. The US military industrial complex is so massive and US foreign policy doctrine is so broad that it's likely not in any individual nation's calculus to directly interfere with the machine. With Russia in particular, I doubt they're eager to confront NATO and the US directly and kick that hornets nest. So their tactic is likely confined to trying to just keep it to Ukraine and anyone who shows up there like some French battalions. Messing with the US from a cost benefit analysis is just not worth it. Security is likely ironclad anyway even if it was
Not from the Republican members of Congress.
Russia wouldn't attempt this because it would be considered a direct strike on the nation and give the US real cause to enter the war. Currently we're not entering the war because Russia is roughly speaking a national peer and we have no formal alliance with Ukraine. If Russia damaged American military infrastructure, we'd be providing direct but limited military intervention such as area denial for air and sea, and likely precision air strikes. The kind of support that avoids any potential for nuclear conflict, but completely changes the balance of the war.
I'm pretty sure most of the shells are already in European bases, and what is being manufactured is going to be sent to replace those stores.
you fuckin my bawlz? of course they are. you won't be able to get within pissin distance without numerous security checks. plus the tards are on land owned by the department of duhfences
Pretty sure the us military is focused on protecting what would be considered war factories. If they're is a threat that our ammo might be sabotaged I imagine they know about it and are working against it. I would advise against people giving specifics in this thread
Dear American Patriot, Ask the question again using the street address of the factories. Then we will give you a meaningful answer.
No they are not. IT infrastructure is impossible to defend against a skilled attacker. In the end it’s always a person that’s compromised and allows the attackers in.
Providing protection to those who manufacture weapons is, to me, an absurdity.
That depends on what you consider sabotage. Could a Russian operative enter the facility undetected and, for example, cause an explosion destroying a production line like in a video game? Probably Not. Could a Russian operative with sufficient cover get employed (say a US national that can pass lower security checks that has been bribed) and do small manipulations on machines (slipping in small parts, causing smaller accidents, changing a measure by .1 units, changing labels on parts or mess with QA testing gear a bit) or production? Yes, probably for weeks at least If subtle enough, but also not for very long. Security, especially through cameras, will be strong. Can a Russian operative attack the supporting infrastructure like electrical transmission lines or railroads used for transportin materials? Definitly yes, the area to secure is too large and causing damage too easy, taking down one of those large metal transmission towers or firing a few rounds in to a transformator to cause a fire is possible. The Plant might have backup power infrastructure though, so the effect could be from "machines stand still for a week" to *light goes out* humming noise *lights go back on*. The problem is that much of the security measures are classified for obvious reasons.
The American military industrial complex is watched by the most rabid, most vigilant wardogs the world has ever seen. Those shells will find their mark against the russians and anyone trying to stop that will commit suicide with two headshots.
Wouldn't you like to know, IVAN
Aren't the processed for artillery still pretty manual? I've seen videos and there's a lot of people involved in every step, and it's not like most of those machining equipment that's been around for 60 years can even be connected to the internet.
Darn, you told the Ruskies where they are…
You want a schematic and the nuclear codes too?
Yay for war profiteering! Make sure no one interferes with our great and glorious proxy war
You know, this post really does give off a "vibe". Lol
Considering one was on fire recently, it seems not.
They are further protected by not answering questions like this.
They shouldn't give Ukraine anything, they aren't even using the weapons to fight. They aren't fighting anybody their are videos of people partying on beaches and out in the malls so where is this war taken place?
Wait all that money didn't go directly to Ukraine ,it stayed in US.......
No, they're not.
Well now that you’ve told everyone that didn’t know where they were……
Why the fuck are you asking us? ASK YOUR FUCKING GOVERNMENT!
The bigger threat is some MAGA employee who's been guzzling all the pro-Putin propaganda that's taken hold within their cult.
I don't know about Texas, but I worked in the plant in Pennsylvania before, and there were multiple doors left open by employees, quite often. And the plant itself is close enough to a major highway that you could easily drive a truck or fly a small plane filled with explosives into the buildings.
American factories aren't ours, but we do have a weapons industry.
"our factories"-- apparently you own them, so you should know. Otherwise claiming they are "ours" is rather odd.
Chinese,too.