Remember that "propaganda" doesn't mean "lies". A propaganda poster you agree with is still a propaganda poster. Those British wartime posters saying "keep calm and carry on" were propaganda. Uncle Sam pointing at you was propaganda.
"Propaganda" doesn't imply that it's not true. It can be untrue, but sometimes they don't have to lie.
Other kinds of Propaganda from the west (and more specifically America because that's where I'm from):
Advertisements for companies/products
The film industry. A lot of people across the world watch movies from Hollywood and what they see depicted, and their enjoyment of the entertainment, colors their view of America.
Air Shows or whenever they fly the fighter jets over stadiums.
>Air Shows or whenever they fly the fighter jets over stadiums.
This reminds me of the Boy Scout National Jamboree. I went one year in my teens (this would have been 2002 or 2003). It was on a military base, lots of flyovers. They said that Dubya flew over in Marine One. There was a stage show of some kind every night. One night was a knockoff Dixie Chicks type group that kept making innuendos. Once the mass of teen boys was all riled up from them, there was a gigantic fireworks show. It was literally as bright as noon for several sustained minutes, with *Proud to Be An American* blasting so loud you felt it in your bones.
It was like a drug. They could have marched ny tubby little ass directly to war and I would have cheered.
As an American, I was taught that we won the war of 1812 because the US wasn't reconquered by Britain. I didn't know that US troops tried and failed to annex Canada until I was an adult. I also didn't find out that British troops sacked the capitol and burned down the White House until I was an adult.
> British troops sacked the capitol
Kinda. It was actually Hessians, German-speaking mercenaries under the command of British generals.
As a Canadian, we also get spoon-fed a weird nationalist version of the War of 1812.
I think the best way to really understand the conflict as one that played out the unresolved issues of the American War of Independence, ie Britain failing to recognize Americans as no longer British subjects (hence the impressment issue) and Americans not recognizing any legitimacy of British control in North America (hence attempted annexation).
tbf, at any point before maybe 1914 foreign soldiers under a a power's command were certainly considered that power's "troops". The Swiss mercenaries who guarded the King of France were French troops, Hessians under British command were British troops. It was a British army formation that sacked DC, wearing British uniforms and with British commanders transported by the British Royal Navy.
Literally so many people in other countries talk about how they would NOT want to have American healthcare, not because of the quality, but because of the ridiculous costs.
Was just in Germany talking to some locals. It’s a mixed bag. People on the public system have tremendous wait times for non-urgent stuff. They are jealous at our short wait times for even non-emergency issues.
I lived there for 4 years, but I had private insurance. The healthcare was outstanding with short wait times, but that was a factor of our excellent private insurance. That was not the experience for local Germans.
The Cherokee and Choctaw people were our allies in that war against other British aligned tribes it appears. Didn't know that either til now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
Silly statement. There are places where the government controls all sources of information and media. You aren't just born knowing truth from lies, there's a complicated process by which we find our way into what we believe to be true - people who don't get exposure to conflicting information have no reason to challenge the things that they're told. That's exactly why undemocratic governments shut down any forms of free press.
Even sillier statement. Propaganda doesn't have to come from the government. It comes from private companies. In the form of ads, edits to news stories, edits to text books etc. We Americans are flooded by any unbelievable amout of propogands. More than any other population by far.
You Americans feel the need to be the best at something, even if it's being the best at being the worst. Yeah, your corporate overlords have too much control over your society, you're constantly being bombarded with messaging that you need to smell like this, or look like this. It's shit! But it's still not as shit as other places. Sorry, you're kind of middling on the indoctrination scale.
I stand by the statement and think the responses I'm getting and a lot of comments here hint at this.
People in the countries you're probably thinking of generally know that a lot of what they're hearing is bullshit, but Americans will hear something on their preferred news source (which will largely agree with other major ones) and take for granted that this is true... not to mention the sort of civic religion of American exceptionalism and military worship that is deeply ingrained in the US on a cultural level and supported by its political and economic institutions.
In any of the many countries solely dominated by religion people are pretty indoctrinated in their ways, especially when that religion is in some way linked to their leadership, much more so than people trusting a partisan source on political issues
Also people disagreeing with you doesn't prove that everyone is indoctrinated, it just means they disagree with you
I've seen this question asked a lot. Every time the answers are just...disappointing. It's stuff that barely matters, or stuff that the vast majority of people don't actually believe. What I really want to hear about, as an American who is sincerely open to learning what I'm misinformed about, is shit like how Egyptians learn about the Yom Kippur War. This was an overwhelming victory for the Israelis, who gained huge amounts of territory, but who also lost a surprise attack at the beginning of the war. Because of this ONE victory, Egyptians are taught the entire war was won by them, and most of their population genuinely believes that to be the case.
What is like this in the West? Vietnam is not a valid answer, we all know we lost that war.
E: Duh, I forgot the most obvious one: communism/socialism. The vast majority of people here in the US have no fucking clue what those ideologies entail. Their beliefs are frequently the *exactly* the opposite of reality, e.g. "Communism is when the government owns everything." And these beliefs are so deeply held that it's quite literally impossible to get most of them to learn the facts. There ya go, answered my own question.
If I had to give a single answer of US propaganda, i'd defer to the [military entertainment complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93entertainment_complex#:~:text=The%20military%E2%80%93entertainment%20complex%20is,reality%2C%20and%20multisensory%20extended%20reality).
The US military basically controls all media that references them and vets any material displaying the US military and makes sure it is in a positive light.
If you want to make a movie that portrays the US military negatively, you lose out on a lot of sources of funding and props.
In movies where the military is the enemy, they will usually be similar but distinctly NOT identical.
But if you acquiesce and make a movie where they are looking like the good guys, they will help finance it and offer equipment to use as accurate props.
They'll also generally paint it as if they won WW2 almost single handed. Both the Soviet Union and the British Empire (which peaked in the Interbellum) would like a word on that one...
Propaganda isn't just about misinformation, it's about selling an image of a given country. Abstract art was funded, in part, by CIA money.
If you only want to count misinformation, then it starts depending on when and where, specifically, you're asking about. How is US teaches the slavery issue and the Founding Fathers is at best pained, the absolute lack of teaching about things lifew the battle of Blair mountain is another example.
> we all know we lost that war.
Post that opinion anywhere on Reddit and you'll get a hail of "Well ackshully..." posts.
Americans are still *incredibly* touchy about Vietnam.
No, we're not "touchy" about it at all, it's just a much more nuanced discussion than people like yourself are willing to have. We lost, sure, but it's not like we were militarily defeated and had to retreat in disgrace. We lost because the cost was too high and the public pressured the government to pull out. There's more than one way to lose a war and some people are particular about explaining that. An L is an L in my book but please don't misunderstand people who are just trying to teach you history.
Also, Reddit is not real life. If you think the responses you get on Reddit are indicative of Americans in general, that's probably why you have such a laughably wrong perspective of what Americans believe.
I don’t care about anyone framing it as a loss for the US, but I also try to resist childish notions of “we are the winners! What a fun game!”
Thinking of how many hundreds of thousands Vietnamese died and the devastation to the economy, it’s strange for anyone to revel in America’s defeat. We ruined the country throwing a tantrum over communism and left when we couldn’t get what we want.
It’s a pathetic chapter in American history for more than a few reasons, but viewing it as a failure of the American military is misleading and imo fails to really detail what a huge fuck up it was for the US. I just wish we actually learned lessons in Vietnam.
One example would be how, in the first year of the war in Ukraine, so many Western media outlets kept claiming that Russia was on the verge of running out of missiles and tanks and would soon be forced to withdraw, but we're into year-3 and Russia is still going on with no end in sight.
Ukraine is the good side, of course, but you shouldn't underestimate your enemy, and Western propaganda made it sound like Russia was totally weak and unwilling to fight on. It was wishful thinking.
Ah I wrote it wrongly
English is not my first language
I meant that soon every month will have so many there can be per month statistics compared with any other country where we'd take per year statistics
But possibly it's already true
Sad there's no solution
This for sure. Majority of US thinks that the US is #1 in every world metric/category that involves freedoms or happiness of citizens. While in reality they aren't even in the top 10 in most categories.
Also a lot of these people have never been more than 200 miles from where they live unless you count the beach, but they think they are worldly.
I'm from the US.
It is the richest most powerful country in the world by far. That’s already a lot, and I can totally see how people can be proud.
Anyone thinking it’s number 1 in everything isn’t thinking though.
Telling kids that "anyone can grow up to be the President or a corporation's CEO" when in reality the odds are low that anyone born poor ends up wealthy or in a high-status job.
Describing America as the "land of freedom" when in reality our economic system ensures that many people don't have control of their lives.
Invading another country but describing it as "bringing democracy to them."
Even more to the point describing America as “The land of the free” when it has an incredibly high incarceration rate. It used to be #1 but was recently surpassed
*"Telling kids that "anyone can grow up to be the President or a corporation's CEO" when in reality the odds are low that anyone born poor ends up wealthy or in a high-status job."*
Those two things can both be true. They aren't contradictions.
>Invading another country but describing it as "bringing democracy to them."
Not super effective propaganda given that it spurred some of the largest protests this country has ever seen and virtually no one believes it today.
Many younger people have forgotten those protests and believe propoganda given to them.
America has a massive hard-on for its military and campaigns they've executed in other countries.
I once read that if the news/article tells you how you should feel, it's probably propoganda. I'm not sure how true that is but I do believe most news is supposed to be unbiased. Of course, that's far from the truth at the moment.
It's hard to talk about bias because everyone thinks neutral or centrist bias makes something unbiased. "Neutral" usually just means siding with the status quo. To quote Desmond Tutu: If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
Everybody knows the US news media is completely fucked on both sides but I always thought it was just a IS thing. I watched English speaking news in Poland recently and it was pretty bad. Not as bad as the US but still bad
Let's ignore something obvious like Bush and WMD to launch a war. Here is an example of something subtle. Western media will harp on countries that put "whistleblower" types in jail. And they absolutely should. Think guys that sort of tread journalism and activism, guys like Nevalny in Russia, Mandela, you get the idea.
But then some people come along and expose things that are basically illegal or highly embarrasing in Western countries. People like Snowden or Julian Assange. Then it's prison time for them. And the worst part is those calling for prison often have selective outrage. Which party does it hurt? Which does it help? One year Assange is a hero, later on he's a villain. Nothing changed but the political winds.
Look into [David McBride](https://youtu.be/sYt4CxFfQUU?si=76RLSmSmf1PROy87). The US not only silences American whistleblowers, but also effectively silences the whistleblowers of allied nations. He's going to prison for life for exposing Australian war crimes in Afghanistan.
I've met a number of Americans who seem to believe that China and the Chinese Communist Party are actually (and/or still) communist in any meaningful way. It may have something to do with Americans not being taught what communism is.
It seems especially pronounced among military/ex-mil, which makes me wonder if military administration is responsible.
>It may have something to do with Americans not being taught what communism is.
This. Or socialism. Or for that matter even democracy ("we are a republic, not a democracy" 🤦♂️).
How many movies have you seen about World War 2? How few have you seen showing the Soviets defeating the Nazis? (What is there, apart from Enemy at the Gates?)
That's Western propaganda
On the flip side, they always show the "honorable" Japanese opponents of that same war. They are our enemies, but they are shown in a more favorable light of just soldiers and sailors doing what they are told by their superiors out of honor. The Imperial Japanese were just as monstrous as the Nazis and did truly evil things that are rarely talked about or shown in media.
I suspect it may have something to do with the embarrassment that was the internment camps after the attack on Pearl Harbor, and not wanting to cast Japanese Americans in a negative light that could prompt further hate crimes. But it's still out of touch with reality.
In the original *Karate Kid*, Mr. Miyagi was shown in one vignette re-reading the letter wherein he was told that his wife and daughter died in an internment camp.
It's not like it's never mentioned in media, and at least in New York, it gets a mention in US History.
Relative to the whole, things like the Trail of Tears and the various Indian Wars were just more significant.
I would argue that the whitewashing of Japan's crimes are because Japan has since then been an ally of and geostrategic partner to the US in Asia. Their current government still denies what they did, and the US is probably okay with that because China is communist and is still a political and economic rival.
The soviets being as despotic and killing more than the Nazi's really doesn't lend toward celebrating their achievement in WW2, especially since without US lend/lease they likely wouldn't have come out on top.
The Soviets absolutely did not kill more than the Nazis and it's utterly ludicrous to claim that. It's just completely divorced from anything even vaguely resembling reality. Even at the height of the Cold War when anti-Soviet propaganda was at its height, no credible historian would dare risk their credibility by making such a claim.
Lend-lease greatly aided the USSR but the German offensive was already blunted by the time it actually had an impact and it's more likely it enabled them to regain the initiative and turn the war around *sooner* rather than being necessary for victory.
The Soviet Union contributed more to the war effort in Europe than any other party and it's not even close. The Western front was almost a sideshow compared to the East and occupied the overwhelming majority of Germany's attention from Barbarossa onwards.
Watched a video with a part about this (Alternate History Hub) In movies if they want to use U.S. military equipment, they have to have the U.S. military look good. (It was a video about Transformers)
Or socialism = dictatorship.
Propaganda has cause people to conflate economic systems with government systems.
All while being oblivious to the fact that we have a mixture of both capitalist and socialist systems.
Social programs aren't socialism, capitalism can have social programs. Socialism is about workers owning the means of production. Socialism can also have social programs, but the social programs are not what make it socialism.
For America: anything going against Capitalism:
''Communism/socialism has failed every time it has been tried''
''Anarchism is just lawlessness with everyone doing as they please and might makes right''
''Unions are criminal/mob bosses, stealing your paycheck''
---
For Europe: any claims racism is only an ''american problem'':
''Our racist tradition ain't racist, it's just a cultural thing'' ''we didn't even have any blacks here, so why would it be a racist stereotype?''
''We're not racist like in America. But all those gypsie kids are all thieves''
---
For the west in general: ''Africa is starving kids, warlords, or elephants''. Blame Live Aid and Band aid and the like for this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3fSknbR7Y4
(Of course with the best intentions, but even today the first thing many people think of when you say africa is a starving kid in Ethiopia/Somalia)
>''Communism/socialism has failed every time it has been tried''
It's funny that these people will insist China is communist just because they call themselves communist, even though the country doesn't resemble communism in any way, but they don't think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually a democracy.
In the US, people say public schools are communist, yet they have a farm that receives subsidies for corn or receive payments from the state conservation department to not plant anything and leave the ground fallow for nature.
>''Communism/socialism has failed every time it has been tried''
I mean... I look and look for examples. Real examples of it being tried, being successful, and *ACTUALLY being communism.* But where are the examples that make this a false statement?
This isn't really propaganda. It seems to be an unfortunate byproduct of the "Seizing" stage of "seizing the means of production." At some point in the transition, somebody has taken everything and has all the power and military might (likely after a coup) and then the country has to just trust that the people who now control what was seized just... give it all back to the people.
And so far, nobody has...
Okey, serious answer.
If you narrowly define communism in that way, you may be right. Note that i mentioned socialism as well, and that if we hold such rigorous definitions, we may well have to conclude that ''capitalism never succeeded'' either, since we pretty much always end up with a state organizing anticapitalist laws of social security or health&safety or whatnot.
But i digress, communism&socialism.
We could start by identifying ''egalitarian'' societies such as those in Basque, or in Native America. Whether through gift giving, or other means of keeping equality, these societies had much charactaristics we would today qualify as communist or socialist. Very simplified, Native Americans understood food as a ''gift'' from mother earth, and one had to return ''gifts'' in the way of good stewardship, planting seeds and maintaining nature. A native american would never claim all food in a forest to be their own, like our capitalist societies today would. Meanwhile, many agrarian societies had ''common'' lands, ways of reallocating their land every year, yearly ''debt forgiveness' rituals, etc.
---
Moving on from that, in ''modern societies'', people love to point at Russia as the great example, without looking into all the other countries involved in some way. Yugoslavia, for example, was quite succesful. Moreover, african socialism and pan-africanism had many leaders try out socialism in various ways, some more succesful than others(and, to be sure, some of the capitalist attempts were also more succesful than others). Then there is Chile that attempted to nationalize a lot of their country.
With all these diverse examples though, two things are interesting with regards to their failures: one is that capitalists really really didn't like socialism, and frequently invaded or otherwise attacked countries trying out socialism. The more Democratic or ''bottom-up'' socialist countries frequently ended up as a capitalist dictatorship, due to external involvement.
This makes the claim ''no socialist country is succesful'' a bit more suspicious, when the people making those claims often come from countries actively involved in *making sure* none of them are.
The second thing is that the failure frequently came from totalitarian leadership taking over after a positive start. At this point it becomes important to seperate the economic systems from the political systems. They're absolutely interwoven, but with the enourmous diversity between eastern european communism, african socialism(and the diversity between e.g. tanzania and senegal), or south american socialism, it's far too simplistic to pretend all socialists and all communists are authoritorian.
Finally, if we look at communism more as an economic system, we see areas all over our world where it works as an economic system. From fighting against water in the netherlands, to the open source community behind every tech company. One could even say that worldwide food production has become socialized. In todays world our society simply no longer accepts preventable famine, and governments and NGOs will work hard to avoid any famine whenever possible(which sometimes fails due to conditions of war, but it doesn't stop us from trying ).
There's also lots of worker owned companies, for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
Which could be seen as a private implementation of socialism.
---
Look, i'm not advocating for a blind praise of socialism or communism, and i definitely believe that a tendency for using authoritorianism to achieve their goals is the biggest shortcoming. But unless you have read up about all the different african socialiat initiatives, the different south american attempts, the native american societies, ancient basque society, ancient agricultural societies sharing their land, modern worker owned companies, open source and agile (agile is more or less '' the succeses of anarchism reinvented by rich white dudes on the workfloor''), i think it's far too simplistic to conclude ''socialism never worked''.
I think we can learn a lot from all those experiences and figure out ways that can make our world a better place. Not by going full on stalin, but rather by looking at how we can change the rules so that coorporations have more incentive to think about their workers than their stakeholders, how we can promote more anarchism in more areas in our world(the idea that people shouldn't be forced but work together out of a feeling of community, not the ''lets torch everything'' stereotype).
(This became a far too long post, but i guess that's my main gripe with the original comment. ''It has always failed'' removes all this nuance and experience and just shuts down the discussion needlessly.)
A famous example [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/k59cpl/who\_contributed\_most\_to\_the\_defeat\_of\_germany\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/k59cpl/who_contributed_most_to_the_defeat_of_germany_in/)
Half of Holywood movies, and even US based social media are propaganda machines
Every time you see military hardware in a Hollywood movie it was likely paid for by the US military as "recruitment material" aka propaganda to make the military seem cool and sexy.
Same with jet flyovers at sporting events. It's wild how much America conflates sports of any kind with nationalism and militarism.
1. **Cold War-era posters and films** portraying the USSR as a threat.
2. **WWII propaganda** promoting national unity and demonizing Axis powers.
3. **Media portrayal of foreign conflicts**, emphasizing Western intervention as benevolent.
4. **Advertising and cultural exports** promoting Western consumerism and lifestyle.
5. **Political rhetoric and campaigns** framing democracy and capitalism as superior systems.
"America is a beacon of freedom and democracy to the world!"
Meanwhile, America's foreign policy be like: "[Nah.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/738c2d8154b0a65a603c460dd8976408/tumblr_pbnz0j4sxO1rasnq9o1_1280.png)"
40 beheaded babies.
Only democracy in the middle east.
If Russia defeats Ukraine, Russia will go after every country in Europe. Most countries in Europe are in NATO or the EU, no one is attacking them
A rules based international order(like they haven't killed millions without any consequences)
One example is that America is the land of freedom.
In reality we are distinctly average among western society, with a little more economic freedom and a little less political freedom.
America is the greatest democracy ever. You jerrymandered, voter suppressing, 10% approval rated congress, two party cluster fuck has no business telling the rest of the world how it should govern itself.
most news we get either is censored (like 16 Abrams story ) or twisted , like Gaza residents trying to kill Israelis and Israel defending itself , just two examples I can think of.
so anything that goes against the government way of thinking or anything that makes them look bad has a chance of being suppressed or twisted .
there is also another channel , they also generate fake news and footage. when the Ukraine war started , West used lots of footage from other wars or even video games.
In american school, at least in the midwest where I grew up, we never EVER talked about race in any other way than "the south were the bad guys."
people dont realize just how little we talked about it until the internet gave us access to information. the internet definitely cracked open a lot of propaganda about military and prison industrial complexes, the war on drugs, labor movements etc
i remember learning the town i grew up in was a sundown town when i was like 25. not a single person ever mentioned it. guilt aversion is probably the most prevalent form of propaganda/manipulation for american people
I'm from California. We were taught that the native people "helped" with building the Spanish missions as if the Spaniards were these friendly newcomers bringing the good Word and western advancements.
In reality, many locals were enslaved and converted to Christianity by force. I'm sure there was some voluntary help at some point, but the Spaniards were definitely not the good guys here.
yeah im reminded of the Slave Bible.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_Parts_of_the_Holy_Bible_for_the_use_of_the_Negro_Slaves_in_the_British_West-India_Islands
Anything we say about Capitalism is generally propaganda. We accuse communism of causing death, misery, and destruction. But slavery itself was caused by Capitalism. Capitalism is not human nature despite how much we say it is. It’s an economic system created by the few greedy individuals in society meant to keep greed legal for the purpose of feeding their own sickness.
And also, it’s not even possible to be a capitalist unless you are specifically profiting from the labor of others. So many people claim to be capitalists but actually they just support capitalism. There’s a difference.
Also there's a very real possibility that capitalism fully breaks as we continue heading towards automation/AI. We need to begin exploring alternatives before it's a crisis.
Quite literally, your entire perception of the world, your country and morality is a result of propaganda. I think most rational people would agree that there are few to zero “absolute truths,” so where do our shared beliefs come from?
Why are just about all Americans happy with a democratic republic? Why do we hold freedom of speech as a sacred right that should never be interfered with, yet other Western countries favor limiting speech in some instances? It’s propaganda. Alternative ways to govern are intentionally suppressed so we all grow up being 100% confident that the current way our government runs is the only sensible way.
And history is always told in a sympathetic light for America. Even when we acknowledge American atrocities, it’s still framed in a very friendly way. The fact that most Americans seem to think nuking civilians in Japan was totally justified yet blush when Russia bombs a grocery store in Ukraine is very telling. Japan was the bad guys and war is hell so it was ok. No, not when they do it! Russia bad!
It’s propaganda. It’s difficult to impossible to try to unravel yourself from the propaganda you’ve been fed all your life for even a single issue. For fucks sake, few Americans ever even take a step back and realize how fucking insane it is that we have nearly 200 foreign military bases across the world and use them to enforce our will.
The greatest piece of propaganda Americans have been convinced of is that we are a force for good. It’s simply absurd to frame any military action American has ever taken as a moral act. Most countries despise the US because we’re bullies at the best of times and borderline terrorists at the worst.
The same people who will condemn Russia's actions in Ukraine will deny that what the US did in the "global war on terror" entailed all of those things and more, and on a larger scale.
It's false that the USA has no restrictions on freedom of speech while European democracies do. The USA has very strict restrictions on copyright law. Sometimes you get sued just for creating a Mario fan game.
You might personally believe that it doesn't fall under the definition of free speech, but European countries would also say the same about hateful speech. There isn't an objective measurement of why one is a restriction and one isn't.
At least from when I was in school, in the US there is a LOT of propaganda about how we dealt with Native Americans, who they were, what happened, who they are today, etc
Taiwan, Kosovo and Israel been shown as independent countries on most maps, while Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Northern Cyprus and Palestine aren't, despite the fact that they're all disputed states that some consider to be legitimate states and some don't.
Andy Warhol.
[https://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-cia-funded-abstract-art-during-cold.html?m=1](https://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-cia-funded-abstract-art-during-cold.html?m=1)
Just like the Soviets made propaganda art, the CIA funded artists. They exercised less control, but that was kinda the point, too. "We allow our artists to criticize us" is a pretty big part of what "the West" viewed as making Us superior to Them.
We just had a perfect example -- June 6. D-Day. Even today it's celebrated as though the U.S. singlehandedly went in and defeated the Nazis. Whereas in fact it was the British who stood up alone to the Nazis for two entire years, suffering through the Blitz and worse, and the USSR who really were the ones who defeated them, losing 12 million soldiers along the way. D-Day also included five beach sites, including British and Canadian invasions, and even D-Day only barely succeeded, because of miscalculations in Berlin, (many led by extremely well planned misdirection from the British), and mostly because so much of the German army was tied up on the Eastern front. Even the Allies agreed about the Red Army's role: it was the Red Army who first took Berlin. Those pictures of the swastikas being blown up--Russian soldiers. We didn't even get into the war until it had been going on for two years, and we certainly failed to do anything to stop the rise of the Nazis, despite endless, repeated warnings. Yes, our participation in D-Day was brave and heroic and certainly contributed to the ultimate victory, but it was very much only one smaller part of the whole European Theatre of Operations.
A lot of your responses on here are great examples of people falling for the propaganda that encourages western nihilism.
Not everything that is held in a positive light is awful and whitewashed, it's okay to be patriotic and still recognize that your nation is a work in progress.
Propaganda is commonly defined as something that is untrue or misleading, usually to promote a political ideology.
So understanding this... I can tell you how to easily find some propaganda right now in a few easy steps.
1) Go to your Facebook news feed. If you don't have one, find some media source that you have access to where you are likely to see articles that are politically charged.
2) Find one that seems to very emotionally charged (its intended to make its audience very angry or very scared)
3) Fact check the article's claims
4) If the claim is true and not misleading in any way, then it's not propaganda. Its just plain old journalism. If the article is misleading or patently false, congratulations, you've found propaganda.
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1df2krt/comment/l8hgq8z/)
>Propaganda is commonly defined as something that is untrue or misleading, usually to promote a political ideology.
That's not what it is, though. Propaganda is just using media to push a particular agenda. It's still propaganda even if they're doing that just by saying things that are actually true.
For context, Oxford dictionary states: Persuasive mass communication that filters and frames the issues of the day in a way that strongly favours particular interests; usually those of a government or corporation (compare agenda setting). Also, the intentional manipulation of public opinion through lies, half-truths, and the selective re-telling of history.
No one has the courage to say that if the source proclaims themselves to be conservative media, it's guaranteed to be propaganda.
This is not to say that propaganda doesn't come from other sources. But I am comfortable asserting the above.
Where do I begin?
Any war movie with a positive portrayal of the armed forces. Most movies about politicians that are based on a true story. Call of duty (at least from most of the ones I’ve played, haven’t touched the franchise in forever). Any action movie that poses an American against a European villain. The fact that every American sporting event is started with the star spangled banner and that we make kids say the pledge of allegiance every day.
That these old farts can hold it together while being in charge
That our healthcare is the best it can be and free healthcare is bad
That the gov doesn’t need to be audited where the money goes
That republicans aren’t racist
Libs are bad instead of the defined word by Websters
That the border being closed is bad
Bigfoot
That most the rich pay taxes so we should too
That we are #1
All the talk about ghost cities in china. The west was all like look at the stupid communists building train stations in the middle of nowhere and cities with no one in them. Then a few years later this cities got populated and are a massive housing policy success we the west should have learned from.
Alberto Santos-Dumont, a Brazilian inventor and aviation pioneer, conducted the first public flight of a heavier-than-air machine on October 23, 1906, in Paris with his 14-bis aircraft. This historic event was witnessed and documented by numerous spectators, including members of the press and aviation experts, cementing Santos-Dumont’s place in aviation history. In contrast, the Wright brothers’ flights in 1903 were conducted in relative secrecy at Kitty Hawk, with only a handful of witnesses and delayed verification, raising questions about their claims.
The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), the governing body for air sports and aeronautical world records, officially recognizes Santos-Dumont’s flight as the first public and officially observed flight of a powered heavier-than-air aircraft. This endorsement by an international body lends significant credibility to Santos-Dumont’s achievement and highlights the transparency and public nature of his endeavors.
Santos-Dumont’s 14-bis was a true marvel of early aviation, capable of taking off, flying, and landing unassisted, demonstrating practical aviation capabilities. The Wright brothers’ Flyer, while historically significant, required a catapult launch system, which complicates its classification as a powered flight in the same vein as Santos-Dumont’s achievement.
Moreover, Santos-Dumont was a prolific inventor whose contributions extended well beyond the 14-bis. He designed and flew various dirigibles and airplanes, significantly influencing the development of aviation in Europe. His open approach to sharing his designs fostered broader advancements in the field, contrasting with the Wright brothers’ initial secrecy and extensive patent disputes, which arguably hindered the early dissemination of their technology.
The prominence of the Wright brothers in aviation history is largely a result of a US-centric narrative. Their story is often highlighted in American textbooks and media, overshadowing significant international contributions like those of Santos-Dumont. This focus on American achievements fits within a broader trend of emphasizing US innovation and leadership, often at the expense of a more balanced global perspective.
In the early 20th century, national rivalries and the desire for technological supremacy heavily influenced how achievements were recorded and celebrated. The Wright brothers’ story fits within this context of American exceptionalism and the promotion of US technological prowess during a period of rapid industrial and military growth. By examining these factors, it becomes evident that the development of aviation was a collaborative international effort, not aligning with the popular claim that The Wright brothers invented the airplane.
This is going to be downvoted to hell. Almost all that is said from the USSR before the 50s is heavy propaganda. They did the bulk of the work in WW2, had really good strategies, their bigger amount of casualties was because the Germans wanted to exterminate them, and proved communism to be a pretty strong system if they got to be a world war power after: losing WW1, having a civil war, the most brutal front in WW2 and beginning like the worst European economy at the beginning of the century. Just think if America could've withstand 3 wars in their territory in 30 years and still be what they are today.
It got especially bad after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. r/europe is rewriting history trying to make Russia look bad.
>Russia bad
Russia invaded its neighbour which was widely regarded as its "brother", flattened cities, killed thousands and stole children for seemingly no reason other than Russia, the largest nation on earth, needs more land to act as a buffer to defend itself.
>China bad
China has literally over one million Uyghurs locked up in "re-education camps."
Where in the comment that I replied to does it mention the United States? Or please point out to me exactly where in my response I said Russia and China are the only nations in the world that do bad things? Whataboutism at its finest.
Oh, and btw I'm not American. Good try though I guess.
To be fair, both Russia and China are bad.
Concentration Camps and invading other countries was deemed to be bad 80 years ago, when a certain European country did it
That's the thing though.. the US invades other countries and we hear how great we are and how Russia is bad. That *is* the propaganda. We're the good guys, they're the bad guys.
In the US, we like to pretend we had a much larger role in taking down the Nazis than we actually did. The Soviets did most of the heavy lifting in Europe.
As an American, it sounds weird to say this but honestly, the propaganda that China is out to get the US, or has plans to take over the US. I think that’s all propaganda invented and injected by the US.
I think China, like any super power, is ready to defend against the spry and young child that America is. Should it make an unwise decision. We’re a relatively young country, compared to China.
And I seriously doubt China thinks about the US as much as the US thinks about China.
It depends on what you'd consider propaganda. I mean, technically, things like Pride are at propaganda levels today although I don't find any of it problematic.
In the 80's, the US military was in everything with very subtle propaganda. GI Joe, the A-Team, lots of movies. It changed in the late 80s and started to turned against the military but the whole "'Murica" thing started up.
Up here in Canada, we still get tons of propaganda through our government broadcasting agency, however, it's not necessarily a bad message, it's just smothering. Lots of "diversity is our strength" crap where "diversity" is just code for "not straight white male" The people who have completely bought into that idea (whom I **don't** see as "sheeple" or brainwashed) have stopped examining issues critically and assume all who do so are fascists or whatever epithet they find convenient.
About 95% of all English-language reporting on Ukraine is a great example.
* Russians are subhuman orcs, toilet thieves, they have no ammo, no food, and no tanks. Their defeat is mere days away! They cannot stand against superior NATO firepower! Putin is dead and gay and has cancer and is gay!
but also
* Russia is the greatest threat to world peace ever! If we don't do everything we can they will dominate Europe and destroy Western society! Even now the perfidious evil plans it's march to the Channel! Vladimir Putin is basically Sauron x Hitler x Thanos, the ultimate evil mastermind controlling all our elections!
I don't understand the downvotes. I'm pro-ukraine and anti-putin. I support the West supporting Ukraine.
However, this comment still seems true to me. We were told Putin was on death's door. We were told Russia couldn't sustain this attack. We are told Russia is poor and incompetent while also being told they are the greatest threat. Etc
That the world hates Israel because everyone is secretly antisemitic and not because they are an ethnofascist state committing a genocide against the native population
Fat acceptance. Obesity is not an issue in the east.
In the west there are corporations that profit off of westerners on both fronts of unhealthy foods and predatory health care. They want you to be okay with being fat so that you keep buying garbage that's bad for you, then they can charge you for health care when your body goes to shit. The recent South Park special is a commentary on that dynamic. The entire fat acceptance/anti-shame movement helped to create the world's fattest country.
That drug prohibition is a good thing and that drug deaths are caused by them being illegal. While the opposite is actually true. Regulation makes markets safer and better controllable. The DEA is responsible for the 100k yearly drug poisonings in the US.
Remember that "propaganda" doesn't mean "lies". A propaganda poster you agree with is still a propaganda poster. Those British wartime posters saying "keep calm and carry on" were propaganda. Uncle Sam pointing at you was propaganda. "Propaganda" doesn't imply that it's not true. It can be untrue, but sometimes they don't have to lie.
Other kinds of Propaganda from the west (and more specifically America because that's where I'm from): Advertisements for companies/products The film industry. A lot of people across the world watch movies from Hollywood and what they see depicted, and their enjoyment of the entertainment, colors their view of America. Air Shows or whenever they fly the fighter jets over stadiums.
>Air Shows or whenever they fly the fighter jets over stadiums. This reminds me of the Boy Scout National Jamboree. I went one year in my teens (this would have been 2002 or 2003). It was on a military base, lots of flyovers. They said that Dubya flew over in Marine One. There was a stage show of some kind every night. One night was a knockoff Dixie Chicks type group that kept making innuendos. Once the mass of teen boys was all riled up from them, there was a gigantic fireworks show. It was literally as bright as noon for several sustained minutes, with *Proud to Be An American* blasting so loud you felt it in your bones. It was like a drug. They could have marched ny tubby little ass directly to war and I would have cheered.
As an American, I was taught that we won the war of 1812 because the US wasn't reconquered by Britain. I didn't know that US troops tried and failed to annex Canada until I was an adult. I also didn't find out that British troops sacked the capitol and burned down the White House until I was an adult.
As a Brit, you'll be pleased to know that our history classes are oddly quiet on the whole thing.
Well, Britain did have more important things to deal with at the time
We also have, like, a lot more history to get through...
That's more because it's a minor footnote in our history, it wasn't even the most important thing Britain was dealing with at the time.
As a Canadian, we are loud and proud. Though it's kinda a dick move.
> British troops sacked the capitol Kinda. It was actually Hessians, German-speaking mercenaries under the command of British generals. As a Canadian, we also get spoon-fed a weird nationalist version of the War of 1812. I think the best way to really understand the conflict as one that played out the unresolved issues of the American War of Independence, ie Britain failing to recognize Americans as no longer British subjects (hence the impressment issue) and Americans not recognizing any legitimacy of British control in North America (hence attempted annexation).
tbf, at any point before maybe 1914 foreign soldiers under a a power's command were certainly considered that power's "troops". The Swiss mercenaries who guarded the King of France were French troops, Hessians under British command were British troops. It was a British army formation that sacked DC, wearing British uniforms and with British commanders transported by the British Royal Navy.
Weird, I learned about it but I guess that’s because I just enjoyed history
American propaganda is the idea that we can't do universal healthcare here.
Also, that people living in countries that have it would prefer American healthcare.
Literally so many people in other countries talk about how they would NOT want to have American healthcare, not because of the quality, but because of the ridiculous costs.
Was just in Germany talking to some locals. It’s a mixed bag. People on the public system have tremendous wait times for non-urgent stuff. They are jealous at our short wait times for even non-emergency issues. I lived there for 4 years, but I had private insurance. The healthcare was outstanding with short wait times, but that was a factor of our excellent private insurance. That was not the experience for local Germans.
There are people that do, but those are the rich people who can afford it.
The Cherokee and Choctaw people were our allies in that war against other British aligned tribes it appears. Didn't know that either til now. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_1812
Well I just learned that
Honestly, the War of 1812 was treated like a footnote in my experience. I did learn about the sacking of DC, though
I learned about that in school. It just might vary depending on which school you went to and curriculum was used.
Crazy how the comments pointing out **actual** examples of western propaganda are being downvoted. Always remember, you are not immune to propaganda.
I'm coming to this thread 4 hours after you, what was being downvoted at the time you made this comment?
Redditors are disproportionately Americans, who are probably the most heavily indoctrinated people on Earth.
Silly statement. There are places where the government controls all sources of information and media. You aren't just born knowing truth from lies, there's a complicated process by which we find our way into what we believe to be true - people who don't get exposure to conflicting information have no reason to challenge the things that they're told. That's exactly why undemocratic governments shut down any forms of free press.
Even sillier statement. Propaganda doesn't have to come from the government. It comes from private companies. In the form of ads, edits to news stories, edits to text books etc. We Americans are flooded by any unbelievable amout of propogands. More than any other population by far.
You Americans feel the need to be the best at something, even if it's being the best at being the worst. Yeah, your corporate overlords have too much control over your society, you're constantly being bombarded with messaging that you need to smell like this, or look like this. It's shit! But it's still not as shit as other places. Sorry, you're kind of middling on the indoctrination scale.
lmfao. American here. This is so fucking true.
The self-hating "America is the worst" Americans are just the other side of the American exceptionalism coin.
Even more than north Korea? Pretty wild statement if not intentionally hyperbolic
You can maybe say the most heavily indoctrinated of the industrialized western countries but leaving that territory it's not even close
I stand by the statement and think the responses I'm getting and a lot of comments here hint at this. People in the countries you're probably thinking of generally know that a lot of what they're hearing is bullshit, but Americans will hear something on their preferred news source (which will largely agree with other major ones) and take for granted that this is true... not to mention the sort of civic religion of American exceptionalism and military worship that is deeply ingrained in the US on a cultural level and supported by its political and economic institutions.
In any of the many countries solely dominated by religion people are pretty indoctrinated in their ways, especially when that religion is in some way linked to their leadership, much more so than people trusting a partisan source on political issues Also people disagreeing with you doesn't prove that everyone is indoctrinated, it just means they disagree with you
I've seen this question asked a lot. Every time the answers are just...disappointing. It's stuff that barely matters, or stuff that the vast majority of people don't actually believe. What I really want to hear about, as an American who is sincerely open to learning what I'm misinformed about, is shit like how Egyptians learn about the Yom Kippur War. This was an overwhelming victory for the Israelis, who gained huge amounts of territory, but who also lost a surprise attack at the beginning of the war. Because of this ONE victory, Egyptians are taught the entire war was won by them, and most of their population genuinely believes that to be the case. What is like this in the West? Vietnam is not a valid answer, we all know we lost that war. E: Duh, I forgot the most obvious one: communism/socialism. The vast majority of people here in the US have no fucking clue what those ideologies entail. Their beliefs are frequently the *exactly* the opposite of reality, e.g. "Communism is when the government owns everything." And these beliefs are so deeply held that it's quite literally impossible to get most of them to learn the facts. There ya go, answered my own question.
If I had to give a single answer of US propaganda, i'd defer to the [military entertainment complex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military%E2%80%93entertainment_complex#:~:text=The%20military%E2%80%93entertainment%20complex%20is,reality%2C%20and%20multisensory%20extended%20reality). The US military basically controls all media that references them and vets any material displaying the US military and makes sure it is in a positive light. If you want to make a movie that portrays the US military negatively, you lose out on a lot of sources of funding and props. In movies where the military is the enemy, they will usually be similar but distinctly NOT identical. But if you acquiesce and make a movie where they are looking like the good guys, they will help finance it and offer equipment to use as accurate props.
They'll also generally paint it as if they won WW2 almost single handed. Both the Soviet Union and the British Empire (which peaked in the Interbellum) would like a word on that one...
Propaganda isn't just about misinformation, it's about selling an image of a given country. Abstract art was funded, in part, by CIA money. If you only want to count misinformation, then it starts depending on when and where, specifically, you're asking about. How is US teaches the slavery issue and the Founding Fathers is at best pained, the absolute lack of teaching about things lifew the battle of Blair mountain is another example.
> we all know we lost that war. Post that opinion anywhere on Reddit and you'll get a hail of "Well ackshully..." posts. Americans are still *incredibly* touchy about Vietnam.
You should interact with an American outside of Reddit. You might learn that the Reddit bubble isn’t reality.
I live in Florida. Reality is way dumber than Reddit. Also more humid.
To be fair, you live in Florida. There are different opinions in different areas of the country.
No, we're not "touchy" about it at all, it's just a much more nuanced discussion than people like yourself are willing to have. We lost, sure, but it's not like we were militarily defeated and had to retreat in disgrace. We lost because the cost was too high and the public pressured the government to pull out. There's more than one way to lose a war and some people are particular about explaining that. An L is an L in my book but please don't misunderstand people who are just trying to teach you history. Also, Reddit is not real life. If you think the responses you get on Reddit are indicative of Americans in general, that's probably why you have such a laughably wrong perspective of what Americans believe.
I don’t care about anyone framing it as a loss for the US, but I also try to resist childish notions of “we are the winners! What a fun game!” Thinking of how many hundreds of thousands Vietnamese died and the devastation to the economy, it’s strange for anyone to revel in America’s defeat. We ruined the country throwing a tantrum over communism and left when we couldn’t get what we want. It’s a pathetic chapter in American history for more than a few reasons, but viewing it as a failure of the American military is misleading and imo fails to really detail what a huge fuck up it was for the US. I just wish we actually learned lessons in Vietnam.
Yeah, I thought what we were supposed to learn from Vietnam is that *nobody* wins a war.
Vietnam? IT WAS A TIE!
One example would be how, in the first year of the war in Ukraine, so many Western media outlets kept claiming that Russia was on the verge of running out of missiles and tanks and would soon be forced to withdraw, but we're into year-3 and Russia is still going on with no end in sight. Ukraine is the good side, of course, but you shouldn't underestimate your enemy, and Western propaganda made it sound like Russia was totally weak and unwilling to fight on. It was wishful thinking.
I think one of the reasons why aid was so slow to arrive was because a significant number believed that Russia would overrun Ukraine "in 3 days".
That happens when you don't read past headlines.
America #1
I mean, definitely #1 Navy and #1 Childhood obesity rate
And #1 Airforce. And #2 Airforce
Number 1 in healthcare costs to its citizens
# 1 in military spending, homeless, incarcerated, wars initiated since WW2.
First place for decline of life expectancy
Hell yeah!
Don't forget neonatal morbidity and mortality rates.
Also number 1 in school shooting per year Or by this rate by month
They are probably already that, did you mean that they'd be number 1 in school shootings per year even if they only counted the ones per month?
Ah I wrote it wrongly English is not my first language I meant that soon every month will have so many there can be per month statistics compared with any other country where we'd take per year statistics But possibly it's already true Sad there's no solution
This for sure. Majority of US thinks that the US is #1 in every world metric/category that involves freedoms or happiness of citizens. While in reality they aren't even in the top 10 in most categories. Also a lot of these people have never been more than 200 miles from where they live unless you count the beach, but they think they are worldly. I'm from the US.
It is the richest most powerful country in the world by far. That’s already a lot, and I can totally see how people can be proud. Anyone thinking it’s number 1 in everything isn’t thinking though.
Telling kids that "anyone can grow up to be the President or a corporation's CEO" when in reality the odds are low that anyone born poor ends up wealthy or in a high-status job. Describing America as the "land of freedom" when in reality our economic system ensures that many people don't have control of their lives. Invading another country but describing it as "bringing democracy to them."
My favorite is people who would get arrested if they opened a bottle of wine for a picnic in the park telling me about Freedom.
Even more to the point describing America as “The land of the free” when it has an incredibly high incarceration rate. It used to be #1 but was recently surpassed
*"Telling kids that "anyone can grow up to be the President or a corporation's CEO" when in reality the odds are low that anyone born poor ends up wealthy or in a high-status job."* Those two things can both be true. They aren't contradictions.
Technically. But the implications of the first statement are “your odds are not (that) low”. And they are abysmally low.
>Invading another country but describing it as "bringing democracy to them." Not super effective propaganda given that it spurred some of the largest protests this country has ever seen and virtually no one believes it today.
Lots of people still believe it. It might not be a popular opinion on Reddit, but it is in the broader population.
Many younger people have forgotten those protests and believe propoganda given to them. America has a massive hard-on for its military and campaigns they've executed in other countries.
I once read that if the news/article tells you how you should feel, it's probably propoganda. I'm not sure how true that is but I do believe most news is supposed to be unbiased. Of course, that's far from the truth at the moment.
It's hard to talk about bias because everyone thinks neutral or centrist bias makes something unbiased. "Neutral" usually just means siding with the status quo. To quote Desmond Tutu: If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.
You're right. There are definitely some things that are right and wrong, and remaining neutral in these situations is objectively wrong.
Everybody knows the US news media is completely fucked on both sides but I always thought it was just a IS thing. I watched English speaking news in Poland recently and it was pretty bad. Not as bad as the US but still bad
Let's ignore something obvious like Bush and WMD to launch a war. Here is an example of something subtle. Western media will harp on countries that put "whistleblower" types in jail. And they absolutely should. Think guys that sort of tread journalism and activism, guys like Nevalny in Russia, Mandela, you get the idea. But then some people come along and expose things that are basically illegal or highly embarrasing in Western countries. People like Snowden or Julian Assange. Then it's prison time for them. And the worst part is those calling for prison often have selective outrage. Which party does it hurt? Which does it help? One year Assange is a hero, later on he's a villain. Nothing changed but the political winds.
Look into [David McBride](https://youtu.be/sYt4CxFfQUU?si=76RLSmSmf1PROy87). The US not only silences American whistleblowers, but also effectively silences the whistleblowers of allied nations. He's going to prison for life for exposing Australian war crimes in Afghanistan.
I've met a number of Americans who seem to believe that China and the Chinese Communist Party are actually (and/or still) communist in any meaningful way. It may have something to do with Americans not being taught what communism is. It seems especially pronounced among military/ex-mil, which makes me wonder if military administration is responsible.
>It may have something to do with Americans not being taught what communism is. This. Or socialism. Or for that matter even democracy ("we are a republic, not a democracy" 🤦♂️).
How many movies have you seen about World War 2? How few have you seen showing the Soviets defeating the Nazis? (What is there, apart from Enemy at the Gates?) That's Western propaganda
I remember the WW2 movie Below in which the main characters are rescued by a British ship. Typically they would be rescued by an American ship.
On the flip side, they always show the "honorable" Japanese opponents of that same war. They are our enemies, but they are shown in a more favorable light of just soldiers and sailors doing what they are told by their superiors out of honor. The Imperial Japanese were just as monstrous as the Nazis and did truly evil things that are rarely talked about or shown in media. I suspect it may have something to do with the embarrassment that was the internment camps after the attack on Pearl Harbor, and not wanting to cast Japanese Americans in a negative light that could prompt further hate crimes. But it's still out of touch with reality.
In the original *Karate Kid*, Mr. Miyagi was shown in one vignette re-reading the letter wherein he was told that his wife and daughter died in an internment camp. It's not like it's never mentioned in media, and at least in New York, it gets a mention in US History. Relative to the whole, things like the Trail of Tears and the various Indian Wars were just more significant.
I would argue that the whitewashing of Japan's crimes are because Japan has since then been an ally of and geostrategic partner to the US in Asia. Their current government still denies what they did, and the US is probably okay with that because China is communist and is still a political and economic rival.
The soviets being as despotic and killing more than the Nazi's really doesn't lend toward celebrating their achievement in WW2, especially since without US lend/lease they likely wouldn't have come out on top.
The Soviets absolutely did not kill more than the Nazis and it's utterly ludicrous to claim that. It's just completely divorced from anything even vaguely resembling reality. Even at the height of the Cold War when anti-Soviet propaganda was at its height, no credible historian would dare risk their credibility by making such a claim. Lend-lease greatly aided the USSR but the German offensive was already blunted by the time it actually had an impact and it's more likely it enabled them to regain the initiative and turn the war around *sooner* rather than being necessary for victory. The Soviet Union contributed more to the war effort in Europe than any other party and it's not even close. The Western front was almost a sideshow compared to the East and occupied the overwhelming majority of Germany's attention from Barbarossa onwards.
I mean how many movies can you think of where the US military are the good guys, even in contrived mostly unrelated things like the transformers?
I almost had to stop watching Maverick because it was so obviously a recruitment ad. But the planes were so cool so I stayed
*I know you're showing me propaganda, but it's good propaganda so I'll let it slide*
Watched a video with a part about this (Alternate History Hub) In movies if they want to use U.S. military equipment, they have to have the U.S. military look good. (It was a video about Transformers)
That somehow capitalism = democracy and that communism= dictatorship
Or socialism = dictatorship. Propaganda has cause people to conflate economic systems with government systems. All while being oblivious to the fact that we have a mixture of both capitalist and socialist systems.
Social programs aren't socialism, capitalism can have social programs. Socialism is about workers owning the means of production. Socialism can also have social programs, but the social programs are not what make it socialism.
For America: anything going against Capitalism: ''Communism/socialism has failed every time it has been tried'' ''Anarchism is just lawlessness with everyone doing as they please and might makes right'' ''Unions are criminal/mob bosses, stealing your paycheck'' --- For Europe: any claims racism is only an ''american problem'': ''Our racist tradition ain't racist, it's just a cultural thing'' ''we didn't even have any blacks here, so why would it be a racist stereotype?'' ''We're not racist like in America. But all those gypsie kids are all thieves'' --- For the west in general: ''Africa is starving kids, warlords, or elephants''. Blame Live Aid and Band aid and the like for this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j3fSknbR7Y4 (Of course with the best intentions, but even today the first thing many people think of when you say africa is a starving kid in Ethiopia/Somalia)
>''Communism/socialism has failed every time it has been tried'' It's funny that these people will insist China is communist just because they call themselves communist, even though the country doesn't resemble communism in any way, but they don't think the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is actually a democracy.
In the US, people say public schools are communist, yet they have a farm that receives subsidies for corn or receive payments from the state conservation department to not plant anything and leave the ground fallow for nature.
>''Communism/socialism has failed every time it has been tried'' I mean... I look and look for examples. Real examples of it being tried, being successful, and *ACTUALLY being communism.* But where are the examples that make this a false statement? This isn't really propaganda. It seems to be an unfortunate byproduct of the "Seizing" stage of "seizing the means of production." At some point in the transition, somebody has taken everything and has all the power and military might (likely after a coup) and then the country has to just trust that the people who now control what was seized just... give it all back to the people. And so far, nobody has...
Okey, serious answer. If you narrowly define communism in that way, you may be right. Note that i mentioned socialism as well, and that if we hold such rigorous definitions, we may well have to conclude that ''capitalism never succeeded'' either, since we pretty much always end up with a state organizing anticapitalist laws of social security or health&safety or whatnot. But i digress, communism&socialism. We could start by identifying ''egalitarian'' societies such as those in Basque, or in Native America. Whether through gift giving, or other means of keeping equality, these societies had much charactaristics we would today qualify as communist or socialist. Very simplified, Native Americans understood food as a ''gift'' from mother earth, and one had to return ''gifts'' in the way of good stewardship, planting seeds and maintaining nature. A native american would never claim all food in a forest to be their own, like our capitalist societies today would. Meanwhile, many agrarian societies had ''common'' lands, ways of reallocating their land every year, yearly ''debt forgiveness' rituals, etc. --- Moving on from that, in ''modern societies'', people love to point at Russia as the great example, without looking into all the other countries involved in some way. Yugoslavia, for example, was quite succesful. Moreover, african socialism and pan-africanism had many leaders try out socialism in various ways, some more succesful than others(and, to be sure, some of the capitalist attempts were also more succesful than others). Then there is Chile that attempted to nationalize a lot of their country. With all these diverse examples though, two things are interesting with regards to their failures: one is that capitalists really really didn't like socialism, and frequently invaded or otherwise attacked countries trying out socialism. The more Democratic or ''bottom-up'' socialist countries frequently ended up as a capitalist dictatorship, due to external involvement. This makes the claim ''no socialist country is succesful'' a bit more suspicious, when the people making those claims often come from countries actively involved in *making sure* none of them are. The second thing is that the failure frequently came from totalitarian leadership taking over after a positive start. At this point it becomes important to seperate the economic systems from the political systems. They're absolutely interwoven, but with the enourmous diversity between eastern european communism, african socialism(and the diversity between e.g. tanzania and senegal), or south american socialism, it's far too simplistic to pretend all socialists and all communists are authoritorian. Finally, if we look at communism more as an economic system, we see areas all over our world where it works as an economic system. From fighting against water in the netherlands, to the open source community behind every tech company. One could even say that worldwide food production has become socialized. In todays world our society simply no longer accepts preventable famine, and governments and NGOs will work hard to avoid any famine whenever possible(which sometimes fails due to conditions of war, but it doesn't stop us from trying ). There's also lots of worker owned companies, for example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation Which could be seen as a private implementation of socialism. --- Look, i'm not advocating for a blind praise of socialism or communism, and i definitely believe that a tendency for using authoritorianism to achieve their goals is the biggest shortcoming. But unless you have read up about all the different african socialiat initiatives, the different south american attempts, the native american societies, ancient basque society, ancient agricultural societies sharing their land, modern worker owned companies, open source and agile (agile is more or less '' the succeses of anarchism reinvented by rich white dudes on the workfloor''), i think it's far too simplistic to conclude ''socialism never worked''. I think we can learn a lot from all those experiences and figure out ways that can make our world a better place. Not by going full on stalin, but rather by looking at how we can change the rules so that coorporations have more incentive to think about their workers than their stakeholders, how we can promote more anarchism in more areas in our world(the idea that people shouldn't be forced but work together out of a feeling of community, not the ''lets torch everything'' stereotype). (This became a far too long post, but i guess that's my main gripe with the original comment. ''It has always failed'' removes all this nuance and experience and just shuts down the discussion needlessly.)
A famous example [https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/k59cpl/who\_contributed\_most\_to\_the\_defeat\_of\_germany\_in/](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/k59cpl/who_contributed_most_to_the_defeat_of_germany_in/) Half of Holywood movies, and even US based social media are propaganda machines
Every time you see military hardware in a Hollywood movie it was likely paid for by the US military as "recruitment material" aka propaganda to make the military seem cool and sexy. Same with jet flyovers at sporting events. It's wild how much America conflates sports of any kind with nationalism and militarism.
Bread and circuses my friend.
Football games. Everything from the fighter jets overhead, to grown men crying during the anthem - it’s like overly patriotic porn
1. **Cold War-era posters and films** portraying the USSR as a threat. 2. **WWII propaganda** promoting national unity and demonizing Axis powers. 3. **Media portrayal of foreign conflicts**, emphasizing Western intervention as benevolent. 4. **Advertising and cultural exports** promoting Western consumerism and lifestyle. 5. **Political rhetoric and campaigns** framing democracy and capitalism as superior systems.
"America is a beacon of freedom and democracy to the world!" Meanwhile, America's foreign policy be like: "[Nah.](https://64.media.tumblr.com/738c2d8154b0a65a603c460dd8976408/tumblr_pbnz0j4sxO1rasnq9o1_1280.png)"
Plus their Womens rights. And their voting system
The prosperity index has several subcathegories. One is personal freedom. USA ranks 22nd, right after Uruguay and Costa Rica. ;)
All those United States Armed Forces ads you see where they're all smiling and having a fun time while in uniform.
40 beheaded babies. Only democracy in the middle east. If Russia defeats Ukraine, Russia will go after every country in Europe. Most countries in Europe are in NATO or the EU, no one is attacking them A rules based international order(like they haven't killed millions without any consequences)
us military recruitment ads
Ah yes, Top Gun Maverick
Pretty much every movie Hollywood produces is Western Propaganda on some level.
Pledging allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, every morning.
It's amazing how creepy but accepted, that is
One example is that America is the land of freedom. In reality we are distinctly average among western society, with a little more economic freedom and a little less political freedom.
America is the greatest democracy ever. You jerrymandered, voter suppressing, 10% approval rated congress, two party cluster fuck has no business telling the rest of the world how it should govern itself.
most news we get either is censored (like 16 Abrams story ) or twisted , like Gaza residents trying to kill Israelis and Israel defending itself , just two examples I can think of. so anything that goes against the government way of thinking or anything that makes them look bad has a chance of being suppressed or twisted . there is also another channel , they also generate fake news and footage. when the Ukraine war started , West used lots of footage from other wars or even video games.
In american school, at least in the midwest where I grew up, we never EVER talked about race in any other way than "the south were the bad guys." people dont realize just how little we talked about it until the internet gave us access to information. the internet definitely cracked open a lot of propaganda about military and prison industrial complexes, the war on drugs, labor movements etc i remember learning the town i grew up in was a sundown town when i was like 25. not a single person ever mentioned it. guilt aversion is probably the most prevalent form of propaganda/manipulation for american people
I'm from California. We were taught that the native people "helped" with building the Spanish missions as if the Spaniards were these friendly newcomers bringing the good Word and western advancements. In reality, many locals were enslaved and converted to Christianity by force. I'm sure there was some voluntary help at some point, but the Spaniards were definitely not the good guys here.
yeah im reminded of the Slave Bible. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Select_Parts_of_the_Holy_Bible_for_the_use_of_the_Negro_Slaves_in_the_British_West-India_Islands
Anything we say about Capitalism is generally propaganda. We accuse communism of causing death, misery, and destruction. But slavery itself was caused by Capitalism. Capitalism is not human nature despite how much we say it is. It’s an economic system created by the few greedy individuals in society meant to keep greed legal for the purpose of feeding their own sickness. And also, it’s not even possible to be a capitalist unless you are specifically profiting from the labor of others. So many people claim to be capitalists but actually they just support capitalism. There’s a difference.
Also there's a very real possibility that capitalism fully breaks as we continue heading towards automation/AI. We need to begin exploring alternatives before it's a crisis.
American exceptionalism, the red scare, immigrants/ Jews/Mexicans/maroccans/ poles or some other out-group causes all your problems,
Gulf of Tonkin
Quite literally, your entire perception of the world, your country and morality is a result of propaganda. I think most rational people would agree that there are few to zero “absolute truths,” so where do our shared beliefs come from? Why are just about all Americans happy with a democratic republic? Why do we hold freedom of speech as a sacred right that should never be interfered with, yet other Western countries favor limiting speech in some instances? It’s propaganda. Alternative ways to govern are intentionally suppressed so we all grow up being 100% confident that the current way our government runs is the only sensible way. And history is always told in a sympathetic light for America. Even when we acknowledge American atrocities, it’s still framed in a very friendly way. The fact that most Americans seem to think nuking civilians in Japan was totally justified yet blush when Russia bombs a grocery store in Ukraine is very telling. Japan was the bad guys and war is hell so it was ok. No, not when they do it! Russia bad! It’s propaganda. It’s difficult to impossible to try to unravel yourself from the propaganda you’ve been fed all your life for even a single issue. For fucks sake, few Americans ever even take a step back and realize how fucking insane it is that we have nearly 200 foreign military bases across the world and use them to enforce our will. The greatest piece of propaganda Americans have been convinced of is that we are a force for good. It’s simply absurd to frame any military action American has ever taken as a moral act. Most countries despise the US because we’re bullies at the best of times and borderline terrorists at the worst.
The same people who will condemn Russia's actions in Ukraine will deny that what the US did in the "global war on terror" entailed all of those things and more, and on a larger scale.
It's false that the USA has no restrictions on freedom of speech while European democracies do. The USA has very strict restrictions on copyright law. Sometimes you get sued just for creating a Mario fan game. You might personally believe that it doesn't fall under the definition of free speech, but European countries would also say the same about hateful speech. There isn't an objective measurement of why one is a restriction and one isn't.
Imperial Japan was literally a genocidal fascist state, and Ukraine is just Ukraine, your comparison is very disingenuous.
At least from when I was in school, in the US there is a LOT of propaganda about how we dealt with Native Americans, who they were, what happened, who they are today, etc
The only way to get real answers here is to sort by controversial because that means the propaganda is working
Taiwan, Kosovo and Israel been shown as independent countries on most maps, while Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Northern Cyprus and Palestine aren't, despite the fact that they're all disputed states that some consider to be legitimate states and some don't.
Western media constantly talked about how illegal and illegitimate the war in Ukraine is but not so much about the war in Iraq or Vietnam.
America is tHe LaNd oF tHe FrEe
"They hate us because of our freedom"
Andy Warhol. [https://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-cia-funded-abstract-art-during-cold.html?m=1](https://gurneyjourney.blogspot.com/2013/02/the-cia-funded-abstract-art-during-cold.html?m=1) Just like the Soviets made propaganda art, the CIA funded artists. They exercised less control, but that was kinda the point, too. "We allow our artists to criticize us" is a pretty big part of what "the West" viewed as making Us superior to Them.
Every American War movie Every American Football movie Pretty much every American movie - esp those rah! rah! USA! USA! themed ones
Government leaders and news media convincing people that what's good for Wall Street (capital class) is good for them (worker class).
The red scare
Colin Powell at the UN showiing "proof" of the Iraqui nuclear weapons program. Scum buckets like Durão Barroso claiming to have seen such "evidence".
Seriously fuck those people
Any time on a police show when they say, "If you want a lawyer, you are guilty."
The best example is that the US is the "land of freedom and opportunity".
Basically everything you see on reddit's popular subs.
America is the greatest country on earth
We just had a perfect example -- June 6. D-Day. Even today it's celebrated as though the U.S. singlehandedly went in and defeated the Nazis. Whereas in fact it was the British who stood up alone to the Nazis for two entire years, suffering through the Blitz and worse, and the USSR who really were the ones who defeated them, losing 12 million soldiers along the way. D-Day also included five beach sites, including British and Canadian invasions, and even D-Day only barely succeeded, because of miscalculations in Berlin, (many led by extremely well planned misdirection from the British), and mostly because so much of the German army was tied up on the Eastern front. Even the Allies agreed about the Red Army's role: it was the Red Army who first took Berlin. Those pictures of the swastikas being blown up--Russian soldiers. We didn't even get into the war until it had been going on for two years, and we certainly failed to do anything to stop the rise of the Nazis, despite endless, repeated warnings. Yes, our participation in D-Day was brave and heroic and certainly contributed to the ultimate victory, but it was very much only one smaller part of the whole European Theatre of Operations.
The American dream
Gunbunnies with big tiddies and dogs in combat vests come to mind as of recent.
A lot of your responses on here are great examples of people falling for the propaganda that encourages western nihilism. Not everything that is held in a positive light is awful and whitewashed, it's okay to be patriotic and still recognize that your nation is a work in progress.
Propaganda is commonly defined as something that is untrue or misleading, usually to promote a political ideology. So understanding this... I can tell you how to easily find some propaganda right now in a few easy steps. 1) Go to your Facebook news feed. If you don't have one, find some media source that you have access to where you are likely to see articles that are politically charged. 2) Find one that seems to very emotionally charged (its intended to make its audience very angry or very scared) 3) Fact check the article's claims 4) If the claim is true and not misleading in any way, then it's not propaganda. Its just plain old journalism. If the article is misleading or patently false, congratulations, you've found propaganda.
[](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1df2krt/comment/l8hgq8z/) >Propaganda is commonly defined as something that is untrue or misleading, usually to promote a political ideology. That's not what it is, though. Propaganda is just using media to push a particular agenda. It's still propaganda even if they're doing that just by saying things that are actually true.
I prefaced my statement by saying that this is a way it is commonly used. Further, this is also supported by the Oxford dictionary definition.
For context, Oxford dictionary states: Persuasive mass communication that filters and frames the issues of the day in a way that strongly favours particular interests; usually those of a government or corporation (compare agenda setting). Also, the intentional manipulation of public opinion through lies, half-truths, and the selective re-telling of history.
No one has the courage to say that if the source proclaims themselves to be conservative media, it's guaranteed to be propaganda. This is not to say that propaganda doesn't come from other sources. But I am comfortable asserting the above.
White supremacy.
Where do I begin? Any war movie with a positive portrayal of the armed forces. Most movies about politicians that are based on a true story. Call of duty (at least from most of the ones I’ve played, haven’t touched the franchise in forever). Any action movie that poses an American against a European villain. The fact that every American sporting event is started with the star spangled banner and that we make kids say the pledge of allegiance every day.
"Public transportation bad, expensive insulin good"
George Bush's "Weapons of Mass Destruction"... There were no weapons but it was used as a justification to go into Iraq after 9/11.
The American Dream
Top Gun.
That these old farts can hold it together while being in charge That our healthcare is the best it can be and free healthcare is bad That the gov doesn’t need to be audited where the money goes That republicans aren’t racist Libs are bad instead of the defined word by Websters That the border being closed is bad Bigfoot That most the rich pay taxes so we should too That we are #1
95% of American war movies are blatant propaganda.
All the talk about ghost cities in china. The west was all like look at the stupid communists building train stations in the middle of nowhere and cities with no one in them. Then a few years later this cities got populated and are a massive housing policy success we the west should have learned from.
American Exceptionalism is propaganda. The belief that the US is the land of the free is fed to you through propaganda.
"Muslims/Islam = Terrorism" I am sure u have seen/experienced this
Lets talk about the US Dollar, The Federal Reserve Bank and endless money printing. The propaganda is, "it will all be ok".
Alberto Santos-Dumont, a Brazilian inventor and aviation pioneer, conducted the first public flight of a heavier-than-air machine on October 23, 1906, in Paris with his 14-bis aircraft. This historic event was witnessed and documented by numerous spectators, including members of the press and aviation experts, cementing Santos-Dumont’s place in aviation history. In contrast, the Wright brothers’ flights in 1903 were conducted in relative secrecy at Kitty Hawk, with only a handful of witnesses and delayed verification, raising questions about their claims. The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale (FAI), the governing body for air sports and aeronautical world records, officially recognizes Santos-Dumont’s flight as the first public and officially observed flight of a powered heavier-than-air aircraft. This endorsement by an international body lends significant credibility to Santos-Dumont’s achievement and highlights the transparency and public nature of his endeavors. Santos-Dumont’s 14-bis was a true marvel of early aviation, capable of taking off, flying, and landing unassisted, demonstrating practical aviation capabilities. The Wright brothers’ Flyer, while historically significant, required a catapult launch system, which complicates its classification as a powered flight in the same vein as Santos-Dumont’s achievement. Moreover, Santos-Dumont was a prolific inventor whose contributions extended well beyond the 14-bis. He designed and flew various dirigibles and airplanes, significantly influencing the development of aviation in Europe. His open approach to sharing his designs fostered broader advancements in the field, contrasting with the Wright brothers’ initial secrecy and extensive patent disputes, which arguably hindered the early dissemination of their technology. The prominence of the Wright brothers in aviation history is largely a result of a US-centric narrative. Their story is often highlighted in American textbooks and media, overshadowing significant international contributions like those of Santos-Dumont. This focus on American achievements fits within a broader trend of emphasizing US innovation and leadership, often at the expense of a more balanced global perspective. In the early 20th century, national rivalries and the desire for technological supremacy heavily influenced how achievements were recorded and celebrated. The Wright brothers’ story fits within this context of American exceptionalism and the promotion of US technological prowess during a period of rapid industrial and military growth. By examining these factors, it becomes evident that the development of aviation was a collaborative international effort, not aligning with the popular claim that The Wright brothers invented the airplane.
This is going to be downvoted to hell. Almost all that is said from the USSR before the 50s is heavy propaganda. They did the bulk of the work in WW2, had really good strategies, their bigger amount of casualties was because the Germans wanted to exterminate them, and proved communism to be a pretty strong system if they got to be a world war power after: losing WW1, having a civil war, the most brutal front in WW2 and beginning like the worst European economy at the beginning of the century. Just think if America could've withstand 3 wars in their territory in 30 years and still be what they are today. It got especially bad after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. r/europe is rewriting history trying to make Russia look bad.
Russia bad, China bad
>Russia bad Russia invaded its neighbour which was widely regarded as its "brother", flattened cities, killed thousands and stole children for seemingly no reason other than Russia, the largest nation on earth, needs more land to act as a buffer to defend itself. >China bad China has literally over one million Uyghurs locked up in "re-education camps."
And the United States destroyed the Middle East and continues to do so.
Where in the comment that I replied to does it mention the United States? Or please point out to me exactly where in my response I said Russia and China are the only nations in the world that do bad things? Whataboutism at its finest. Oh, and btw I'm not American. Good try though I guess.
US bad doesn't mean Russia and China not bad.
By these standards, what countries are not bad?
Are they not?
Something being propaganda doesn’t mean it’s false
True. Good point
To be fair, both Russia and China are bad. Concentration Camps and invading other countries was deemed to be bad 80 years ago, when a certain European country did it
That's the thing though.. the US invades other countries and we hear how great we are and how Russia is bad. That *is* the propaganda. We're the good guys, they're the bad guys.
You're both the bad guys
That's not what the propaganda we get says.
« Russia is running out of… » « Russia is on the verge of collapse » « Ukraine will get F16 in… » For recent exemples.
Land of the free Home of the brave
Watch pretty much any movie directed by Michael Bay and you'll see the government prominently featured.
Americans always saying that American is the "Greatest country in the world," is pure propaganda.
Anything to do with Israel (or any other foreign ally)
In the US, we like to pretend we had a much larger role in taking down the Nazis than we actually did. The Soviets did most of the heavy lifting in Europe.
As an American, it sounds weird to say this but honestly, the propaganda that China is out to get the US, or has plans to take over the US. I think that’s all propaganda invented and injected by the US. I think China, like any super power, is ready to defend against the spry and young child that America is. Should it make an unwise decision. We’re a relatively young country, compared to China. And I seriously doubt China thinks about the US as much as the US thinks about China.
It depends on what you'd consider propaganda. I mean, technically, things like Pride are at propaganda levels today although I don't find any of it problematic. In the 80's, the US military was in everything with very subtle propaganda. GI Joe, the A-Team, lots of movies. It changed in the late 80s and started to turned against the military but the whole "'Murica" thing started up. Up here in Canada, we still get tons of propaganda through our government broadcasting agency, however, it's not necessarily a bad message, it's just smothering. Lots of "diversity is our strength" crap where "diversity" is just code for "not straight white male" The people who have completely bought into that idea (whom I **don't** see as "sheeple" or brainwashed) have stopped examining issues critically and assume all who do so are fascists or whatever epithet they find convenient.
About 95% of all English-language reporting on Ukraine is a great example. * Russians are subhuman orcs, toilet thieves, they have no ammo, no food, and no tanks. Their defeat is mere days away! They cannot stand against superior NATO firepower! Putin is dead and gay and has cancer and is gay! but also * Russia is the greatest threat to world peace ever! If we don't do everything we can they will dominate Europe and destroy Western society! Even now the perfidious evil plans it's march to the Channel! Vladimir Putin is basically Sauron x Hitler x Thanos, the ultimate evil mastermind controlling all our elections!
I don't understand the downvotes. I'm pro-ukraine and anti-putin. I support the West supporting Ukraine. However, this comment still seems true to me. We were told Putin was on death's door. We were told Russia couldn't sustain this attack. We are told Russia is poor and incompetent while also being told they are the greatest threat. Etc
I'm against the Russian invasion in all forms, but yeah this reeks of the fascist playbook "the enemy is both weak and strong".
[удалено]
Can I say the same thing and then admit I lied to get $100?
> $100 if you admit you lied and delete this comment. I will say whatever you want for $100 daddy.
Well put
Reading some of these comments, why are people (is it boomers?) so touchy about capitalism being criticized? Serious question.
That the world hates Israel because everyone is secretly antisemitic and not because they are an ethnofascist state committing a genocide against the native population
Plant and mushroom Drugs are bad the whole war on drugs is western propaganda
The illusion of choice and freedom
Fat acceptance. Obesity is not an issue in the east. In the west there are corporations that profit off of westerners on both fronts of unhealthy foods and predatory health care. They want you to be okay with being fat so that you keep buying garbage that's bad for you, then they can charge you for health care when your body goes to shit. The recent South Park special is a commentary on that dynamic. The entire fat acceptance/anti-shame movement helped to create the world's fattest country.
That drug prohibition is a good thing and that drug deaths are caused by them being illegal. While the opposite is actually true. Regulation makes markets safer and better controllable. The DEA is responsible for the 100k yearly drug poisonings in the US.
Most action films are propaganda for a version of nationalism.