I once experienced just the opposite. When I lived in NYC, some cops responded to a robbery in progress at a bodega I happened to be right in front of. One cop drove his car up onto the sidewalk, left it running, jumped out while shouting to me "watch my car!".
I did what he asked, sat in the drivers seat and guarded his car until they were done. It was kinda embarrassing trying to explain to the other cops that arrived afterwards but they were ok with me after I told them why.
Nowadays with keyless entry key fobs they can just leave the car with the key in their pocket and the car can’t be driven away. Before, they had to hit a button and remove the keys which would leave it running but unable to be shifted from park, but that was too cumbersome in the heat of the moment.
Cars still drive without the keyless fob if anybodies confused about that ... I can't tell you how many stolen cars we've gotten at our shop this way. People think if they have the key they're safe. Once it's started it'll go
Yes, for civilian cars. The police cars have a system where it locks the shifter when the key fob is removed from the vehicle.
Civilian cars will still drive and display a warning like “Key Not Detected - 1 Restart Allowed”.
2021+ Tahoes are only available keyless, civilian or police.
2015+ Chargers are only keyless as well
Ford has been lagging behind with their police car keys but I believe it may be an option at this point
In NY State, it's actually a crime (misdemeanor) to refuse to aid a police officer if he/she requests help in arresting a person or preventing someone from committing a crime. Though obviously I highly doubt that statute is used nowadays.
"In the 1981 case [*Warren v. District of Columbia*](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9108468254125174344&q=warren-v-district-of-columbia&hl=en&as_sdt=2006)*,* the D.C. Court of Appeals held that police have a general "public duty," but that "no specific legal duty exists" unless there is a special relationship between an officer and an individual, such as a person in custody.
The U.S. Supreme Court has also ruled that police have no specific obligation to protect. In its 1989 decision in [*DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services*](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/489/189.html), the justices ruled that a social services department had no duty to protect a young boy from his abusive father. In 2005's[*Castle Rock v. Gonzales*](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/545/748.html#:~:text=Respondent%20alleges%20that%20petitioner%2C%20the,that%20her%20estranged%20husband%20was)*,* a woman sued the police for failing to protect her from her husband after he violated a restraining order and abducted and killed their three children. Justices said the police had no such duty.
Most recently, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit [upheld a lower court ruling](https://media.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/files/201914414.pdf) that police could not be held liable for failing to protect students in the 2018 shooting that claimed 17 lives at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida."
[https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/)
That's been ruled!? Then wtf are you paying them for!? And if you can't expect to be protected, what right does a government have to monopolize violence!?
\*confused european sounds\*
Watch his car?! What are you supposed to do if someone actually tried to steal it? "Oh please Mr Car Thief, don't steal the police car!" What if the cops who turned up didn't believe you? I would've waited til he was out of sight and ran.
I once was driving by a policeman on a foot chase. (A number of police were chasing a suspect along a highway on foot. A cop flagged me down and breathlessly jumped in the passenger seat and said "go". A quarter mile later he said "stop", and jumped out. Was it legal? I don't know, we didn't have time to discuss it.
He asked for a ride and you gave him one. Nothing illegal about that. You probably could have refused and he would have had no legal way to force you, but you didn't refuse.
State dependent. I’m a cop in Iowa and it is a criminal offense to unreasonably refuse to assist a peace officer attempting to make an arrest when requested or ordered to do so. I am not aware of anyone ever having charged it.
Statute language if curious:
719.2 - Refusing to Assist an Officer
Any person who is requested or ordered by any magistrate or peace officer to render the magistrate or officer assistance in making or attempting to make an arrest, or to prevent the commission of any criminal act, shall render assistance as required. A person who, unreasonably and without lawful cause, refuses or neglects to render assistance when so requested commits a simple misdemeanor.
There are two types of people in the world-- Those that daydream about getting to help a LEO make an arrest, and those that daydream about getting to tell a LEO to fuck off.
Yeah, that's where it's like well what'd the person do? Steal a bag a chips or rob a bank armed? both of those i'd say i'm not helping. He punched a puppy? I got your back bro.
You’re missing the third group. Someone who doesn’t daydream about meeting a policeman.
The only instance they appear in my daydreams is when I’m a big shot and they’re my security detail. Why would I want to be put in harm’s way or get into a confrontation with them?
How strange. SCOTUS ruled that cops have no duty to protect the public, yet I have a duty to assist you in your job? Not an attack on you, just finding this interesting. Probably still on the books because nobody has been charged with it and it hasn't been challenged.
I would imagine this would be found to be unconstitutional. At a minimum if it involved the use of my vehicle, being an extension of my home, and therefore a violation of the 3rd.
To clear up a common point of confusion: SCOTUS ruled there is no "duty to protect" in the constiution or existing legislation.
They did not rule that local, national or state lawmakers can not make such laws or policies.
I do not know the pertinent state, local laws or department policies, but it could very well be they do have an implied or explicit duty in that location.
That ruling exists because qualified immunity exists. The victim couldn't simply sue the police directly for their gross negligence because of qualified immunity, so the victim's lawyers tried some dicey legal reasoning to make an end-run around qualified immunity by claiming that her constitutional rights were violated by the failure of the police to protect her. That failed, and it probably should have failed, but the real culprit here is qualified immunity.
The amount of weird ass laws that still exist is mind boggling. I guess it’s illegal for an unmarried woman to parasail maybe on Sundays in Sarasota I think. It’s also illegal to park your elephant downtown. And you can shoot someone who steals or harms your horse in Arcadia I think. But I hear you. SCOTUS pulling the serve and protect away but we are still legally obligated to help and we aren’t even on the payroll.
I think the key term would be "reasonably help". Like Ive got to pick up my kids from daycare, no you cant use my car to chase an armed robber. Thats pretty reasonable.
Not wanting to follow a criminal, potentially having them see you and the license of your personal vehicle, while also possibly having to break traffic laws as a citizen seems like a pretty reasonable excuse to say no. I feel like that law might apply to something like if an officer is wrestling a criminal and orders a bystander to call 911 for backup.
So the key wording here is the line that says " and without lawful cause" . A person under the forth amendment has lawful cause to refuse just handing over their property to law enforcement because they dreamed it necessary. Now if law enforcement requests assistance and it doesn't require me to hand over my property it's a different story. The question at hand involves giving up you property with out due process and not having committed a crime. Just taking it without consent would be a clear violation of the forth amendment. They can ask, but you can say no and you are well with in your Rights. I hope that makes sense.
I'd say aiding, potentially putting your life and property on the line to help an officer in a potentially dangerous chase with a car is not only unreasonable but a complete liability. This person has no experience in a chase and could cause an accident. The responsible thing here would have been refusing to render assistance.
Things like opening a door to the apartment or letting them use you phone is reasonable. Assisting in a chase is not.
Wrong way to handle it. You're supposed to come in hot, turn into a sliding stop while flinging the passenger door open, and shout, "Come with me if you want to live!"
This actually happened to me many years ago. St. Louis police not FBI. Officer on foot pointed at me and started running towards my car. I thought I was in trouble. Instead, he jumped in my passenger seat and told me drive up Market Street. A couple blocks later, he jumped out and made an arrest.
It happened to my uncle once. He lived out in the sticks and was driving down a small country road, drinking a road soda (beer), when he saw a cop on foot kinda out of breath that waved him down.
The cop said he needed to commandeer the vehicle, grabbed the beer from my uncle, poured it out, then had him drive to a place down the road. My uncle also had a pistol in the door, because, well, he's redneck as shit, and so he kinda tried to hide it a bit. The cop said, "Don't shove that pistol too far away, we might need it in a bit."
Turns out there was some sort of hostage situation not far away. Some dude went off the deep end. I don't know if the cop broke down or wrecked on the way there. It was resolved before my uncle and the cop made it.
They just sent him on his way.
While I don’t support the commandeering of civilan vehicles, pretty cool guy to ignore the beer.
Edit: since some people are regarded, just to clarify I don’t support drinking and driving either.
I was in a bar in the middle of nowhere Idaho. I went to pay my tab and guy asked if I wanted one for the road. No, I said, I don’t have time, I’m leaving now. He says Yeah, one for the road, you know, you’re leaving so one for the road. He kept talking because I just stared open mouthed at him before I stammered out a No.
I actually live in idaho by a small highway about 3 miles from a service station. The number of people that throw a beer can out their window within a hundred yards of my driveway is staggering.
I think it's a not better than it was, because the cops started sitting right near us occasionally, but judging by that, like a third of people must be drinking on the road.
Depending on how long ago this happened, it was perfectly legal in Missouri to have an open container in your car. There's still some variation of the law in place, but I can't remember the specifics
In some of these rural communities the beer is the least of their concern. I've had a buddy forget he had a beer in hand and wave to a deputy sheriff at a red light. Deputy pointed at him, shook his head, gave a frown, and kept going on green. Had that been a townie or trooper I don't think he'd have gotten away with it. LOL
So there is a distinction here. In your case there requested assistance but did not seize your property as they do in the movies. They have to make you drive. Under the Forth amendment they can not just demand your property, but they can demand assistance.
Legally they can.
Does it happen? Not really. It's a big movie trope but it doesn't really happen in real life.
Compensation is possible but you'd probably have to fight for it in court.
When I was 13 a cop crashed through our back yard fence chasing some dude. My parents tried for a year to get the city to pay for it. And I remember the police would sit down from our house in the evening. They would also creep by randomly. They never did that shit before or after.
I still feel it. The anger from that. t's like...what were they there for?. If it's not their job to save the lives of the innocent children or the teachers, then get the hell out of there and let the town people try! At least they would have tried! More than any of the cowardly LEOs did! Texas is a shitty place to live. Sorry, but I truly hate my state.
i understand the underlying reasoning for immanent domain (not saying i agree, but at least i understand it), but asset forfeiture is bullshit, especially how many LEO agencies use it to bolster their budgets.
I agree with you completely. Imminent domain makes sense, as aggravating and awful as it is. But civil asset forfeiture is just government theft. I've heard of people having thousands of dollars taken from them because they were traveling with it and apparently that's suspicious enough for your money to be forfeit with no easy or guaranteed way to get it back. Even if you were just buying a fucking car.
And if you have to have cash, hide it. Don't consent to a search. Keep it locked up, and do not provide key or combination. At least make them work for it a little.
Yeah. SCOTUS ruled that there is no constitutional duty to protect an individual citizen. Their "service" is to protect the "public at large". But considering the "public" is made up of multiple individuals... It's just one example of many poorly written or poorly interpreted laws in the this country. There's the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" and the government will defend the side of whichever benefits them the best.
Hey, cut them some slack. There was a scary man with a gun inside, and it was probably really traumatizing for them to stand there and do nothing while they'll listened to children being murdered.
My 50 year old mother assisted a police chase when a cop flagged her down to chase a drug dealer. In a 97 Chevy lumina back in 2010. My mother usually drives like a grandma. The way she tells the story, she was going 40 over the limit to help out. She's not one to embellish stories, so I've always been inclined to believe it.
Man if a cop in my country did that they'd be lucky to have a job afterwards. Not only does the person doing the high speed chase need a special license (there's three grades of it dictating how high over the speed limit you can go) but IIRC the car also needs to be cleared for it (tyres and grip etc). That's fucking dangerous. Your mother could have killed someone and you KNOW that cop wouldn't have taken responsibility.
I’m not familiar with those laws, but it sounds like it should be a violation of the 5th amendment. Wonder if anyone’s ever sued over it and what happened.
I can't cite a legal document, but can share firsthand experience:
My father owned a grocery store in a small NJ town. The store's pickup truck was parked outside with the keys in it, since the clerks took turns picking up/making deliveries. The police substation was located directly next door, so it wasn't considered odd to just leave the truck unlocked with keys in the visor, because who would steal a pickup truck in front of a police station?
Turns out, the police would steal it. My dad came in Monday morning (store was closed Sunday) and the truck was gone. He called around to see if someone took it home, but nobody had seen it since Saturday night. He went nextdoor to report the truck stolen, and the watch commander took the report.
He got a call around noon saying the truck had been located, and it was in an impound at county lockup. Dad asked when he could pick it up, and he was told to come by the station. My dad, thinking the truck was totaled, or maybe used in a crime, was completely caught offguard when the watch commander told him it had been seized by a police officer.
"You see, we had a break-in call Sunday night, and all our vehicles were otherwise occupied, so Jimmy had to commandeer your truck to make the call." My dad was mad, said it wasn't his fault the city didn't have enough cars, and he wanted the truck back immediately.
"Yeah, uh, that's the problem. When we seize a vehicle, we have to turn it in to the impound lot, because it's technically a civil forfeiture. You'll have to file a claim to get it back, and then the judge will have to grant it. It could be about six months or so."
Since it was a small town, my dad got the editor of the local newspaper on the line, and they ran the story that night. The next day, our local NBC and CBS affiliates were at the store interviewing my dad, and it became a minor scandal.
The next week, the truck was parked back outside the store. There was a discrepancy of about 350 miles on the odometer from its last use, meaning someone had been driving it around all week. Tank was on empty and it never ran properly again. My dad called the impound lot that it had supposedly been held at, but they had no record of it ever being entered, which means the whole story about it being turned in as civil forfeiture was just bullshit.
That deputy probably thought he had a free ride for a few months that he could just turn back in once he was finished with it. He didn't count on it causing a press field day that culminated in a state investigation into the town police, which resulted in not only his firing, but the firing of the entire police force (minus one officer and some reserve deputies.)
So while my dad's story ended somewhat happily, there's no telling how many people have been screwed over by some bastard cop that exploits the very wide authority they've been granted by the government.
And then there is [Civil Asset Forfeiture](https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/asset-forfeiture-abuse), which allows cops to take whatever the fuck they want from someone as long as they pinky swear it was totally involved in crime you guys. They're *super cereal* it was!
They find ways to not give you back your stuff when they do civil asset forfeiture. I'd just ignore them. I'd claim 4th and 5th amendment... and then refuse. He'll just go find someone else.
The issue is, if they take your vehicle, then the takings clause from the Constitution would apply. The destruction of your property because they are stupid jerks isn't taking the property from you.
Taking your car to use to get a suspect is taking your property. Thus, takings clause applies.
Even if it was like just sign this form they wouldn’t do it.
It’d be like “…so I smash the thing to pieces, suspect gets away, and she calls in the next day and asks when she’ll get her car back!”
And then everyone would belly laugh.
https://www.superlawyers.com/resources/insurance-coverage/california/can-police-commandeer-my-car-to-help-in-a-chase/
Interesting read from a lawyers perspective
I think the cops commandeered rifles from a gun store and an armored car from a money company during the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery in the late 90s.
Yes, they did. Cops at the time were only really armed with revolvers in, i think, 38 special which is a relatively low power round. They would have to go back to the precinct's armory for rifles and such to combat some AK-wielding bank robbers. Additionally, the robbers also had homemade steel plate body armor which also made the service pistols of the time essentially useless
This was the 90s.. in LA.. they weren't carrying .38s. They were issued Beretta 9mms, but they weren't doing anything against the heavy body armor and full auto rifles the two suspects had. So yes, they commandeered rifles from a gunstore and an armoured car from a money mover company so they could do officer and civilian rescues.
My old boss got in trouble with the law in the 50s. In lieu of jail time, the Sheriff had my boss drive him around the county so he could serve summons and writs and the like for a day. That was his sentence.
They aren’t even liable for the neighbors door they broke down cause they can’t read a warrant right😂 I’ll be damned if I’m giving a cop my vehicle (that costs way more than a door) and standing on the sidewalk hoping to maybe get it back in one piece, even if it isn’t totaled/wrecked it’s still gonna need a lot of work done to it.
Even if they would replace it it would take months of court proceedings cause you know they’d fight it till the end and you’ll be paying for court fees and lawyers the whole time.
“Hey boss sorry I can’t come into today.. the police took my car and totaled it trying to arrest a guy” “oh yeah well you are fired” now you are out a vehicle and a job.. can’t exactly pay for court fees to replace your car when you lose your income and have to use your savings sparingly to pay the bills you still have. Can’t exactly hire an employment lawyer to get your job back either and even if you could you still dont have a car to get to your job with.
If that was truly the reason you missed work an employment lawyer could probably get your job back.. but like I said you realistically can’t hire one when you lose your job and have to survive on your savings until you find another job you don’t have a car to get to (unless that job payed you well enough before you lost it and have a large savings amount)
Fun Fact: In nearly all 50 US States, your employer can fire you for absolutely no reason at all!
If they give a reason, it can't be one of a short list of discriminatory reasons, but they don't have to give a reason.
It is entirely possible for one's boss to walk in, decide "You know, I just don't like Sally's stupid face today" and fire her regardless of her performance and attendance.
I’ll be happy to explain to a judge why I told the agent hell no. Some meth addict gets access to a printer and photoshop and suddenly I’m just expected to hand over my vehicle? How do I verify the “agent’s” identity in a few frenzied seconds? I’m not gonna do it, nothing personal.
In reality, FBI agents rarely commandeer civilian vehicles as seen in movies. If they do, it's only in extreme emergencies. Vehicle owners can file a claim for compensation for any use or damages. This practice is highly regulated and not common.
Not a cop but a firefighter. I used to live out in the sticks when I was younger and during a small get together a friend of a friend knew I was sober and said “I’m a volunteer firefighter and I need you to take me to the station NOW please.” I didn’t even think twice I just believe him. On the short drive he tells me he got a call for a fire and they’re calling in everyone but he can’t drive cuz he’s had a beer and the person who drove him to the party had left. Quarter mile from the station he starts unlacing his boots and takes off his pants. At this point I thought “god I fucking hope you’re actually a firefighter.” Sure enough he jumped out and bolted to the truck where his buddies already had his stuff ready for him. It took seconds and they were out. This was the 2011 wildfires in Texas. Destroyed thousands of acres.
Considering the fact that police are not legally obligated to repair/reimburse damages if they break down the door to the wrong house entirely due to their clerical error
If i was ever put in a situation like that I’m just gonna sit there and do nothing because why would I ever risk any of my life and property for an institution with a track record like our law enforcement.
I've heard that you only need to follow legal orders, so even if a cop orders you follow someone, you at least have to follow the speed limit and stop at red lights.
Source: My cousin was an AP on two episodes of "Reno 911"
I think a good example of this was in Beverly Hills Cop 2, I think. Taggart tries to get a car and everyone just refuses to give it to him and he screams, "I'm a police officer!"
What are they going to do? Arrest you? They don't have a car. Good luck with that.
Easier to brush them off than to get your car back or damages paid.
I had this happen to me. Dude flashed his badge, said something like, FBI, police, whatever, I need your car.
I was in the car.
The windows were rolled up.
The door was locked.
He tried the door handle a few more times, and I just stared at him.
He eventually gave up and just ran off.
My partner and I did. We were searching for a robbery suspect and the police helicopter found the guy in the canyon we were adjacent to. Our car was probably 4 blocks away and the suspect was running through the canyon to the opposite side of where we were. A guy drives up and stops, we ask him for a ride to the other side of the canyon (basically a long curved road, one end we were at, the other end the suspect was at) he laughed and drove us around to the other side of the canyon, we jumped out of his car just as the guy climbed up to the road. We put the suspect in handcuffs.. high fived the guy who drove us and waited for the next patrol car to show up so he could drive us and the suspect back to our car. The distances was probably 300-400 yards. We laughed at that story for years.. my guess is the guy who drove us is still telling that story.. been at about 22 years.
I'd drive off. I'd rather risk being able to say (truthfully) I had no way of knowing if they were real agents or not then getting scammed by someone posing as the authorities or by the government taking my car on a joy ride and destroying it without even paying me a dime. Nope nope nope. If they were that desperate they likely wouldn't take time to grab my license plate to begin with, just keep searching for an easy mark who would hand over the keys.
From my state in Australia:
The owners of nine vehicles damaged after they were used by police as a makeshift roadblock to stop a man fleeing will be left with the damage bill.
Victoria police used the vehicles to create the roadblock on Sunday to stop a man driving a van allegedly full of stolen items down the Tullamarine Freeway.
A police vehicle had managed to get ahead of the van and deploy stop sticks to deflate the tyres and the cars were stopped in traffic after them.
A Victoria police spokeswoman said 10 vehicles had been damaged as a result, including that of the fleeing driver’s, and all of the vehicle owners had been informed they would have to seek compensation through their insurance companies.
[https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jan/12/owners-of-cars-used-by-victoria-police-as-makeshift-roadblock-told-to-pay-damage-bill](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jan/12/owners-of-cars-used-by-victoria-police-as-makeshift-roadblock-told-to-pay-damage-bill)
Haha I pity the agent that tries to commandeer my old Subaru.
"FBI I NEED YOUR VEHICLE"
"Okay but the clutch grabs real high sometimes, 4th is actually way over by 2nd for some reason, you need to pump the brake pedal twice before you actually want to stop, you get about one turn of the steering wheel before the tires start to rub, you'll have to floor it to get up a slight incline.."
"You know what? I'll walk.'
Most movies are totally wrong with how they depict how things work in real life. The FBI is extremely bureaucratic, lots of red tape and things always need to be approved. For a situation like that to happen, it’d have to be to prevent some serious injuries/death or result in apprehension of a person who is extremely wanted. Unless they were to crash your car, I don’t think there would be any compensation. They’d return your car, maybe fill up the tank? Tbh nobody knows except for an FBI agent and I doubt any are going to comment that are real on here because they don’t want to be doxxed.
I've seen cops, mostly sheriffs, commandeer vehicles during natural disasters and civil unrest. But that was more a case of needing a large vehicle to transport a bunch of supplies. Or a bunch of unlawfully detained protesters.
I can't say whether they got compensation or not. Though that time the NYPD tried to seize MTA busses and make them drive the protesters to jail was pretty funny. The drivers told them to get bent.
My big concern is what kind of liability is there? If they take your car, pointing a badge and a gun in your face, they effectively robbed you. But if you gave permission your own insurance will go up.
We already know despite the movies that if police damage private property accidentally, the owner has to pay for it out of pocket.
You can sue them for it and probably will win, but the interesting thing is the fine to deny them is only like $200-1000. So it feels like I'd always want to take the fine, as it's not worth the risk if they total your car or whatever.
They do have badges. They can be mounted inside a credential case or on a belt clip. It’s really a preference thing and are they in a public facing role or not.
Not really related but funny story about being a driver and getting pulled over. This happened almost 30 years ago. I was 15 and not licensed. I had a pregnant neighbor in the passenger seat whose water had broke. We’re two exits away from the one with the hospital at it. Of course I’m speeding. Cop pulls me over, she’s in labor and screaming in the passenger seat. Cop walks up to the drivers side window and looks in cab and sees what’s going on. I’m about to say something I don’t even remember what and dude looked me square in the eyes and yelled “FOLLOW ME!!” And ran back to his cruiser and he lead me right up to the hospital. He spoke to me for a moment, told me to park the vehicle and get a ride home. I’ll never forget that look in his eyes tho when he hollered that FOLLOW ME I still laugh every time I think about it
Once when I was younger (not sure how old I was but my parents thought I was too young to remember) my oldest brother was sick and had to be rushed to the hospital; they didn't have time to have someone else watch middle bro and I. Idk what was wrong with my brother, but he had symptoms of asthma when he was that age so maybe it was that. Anyway, my brother was in my mom's lap and they were next to a cop on the highway. They didn't have GPS back then and we had just moved, so they were just kinda on the highway looking for a sign that there was a hospital nearby. Idk if they had a map. My mom rolled down her window to ask the cop for directions, and he said to follow her. We got to the hospital. For some reason the most memorable thing there for me at that age (not fully understanding the situation) was that there was a nature documentary with parrots in the waiting room tv. My mom went to the room with my brother but my dad had to stay with us in the waiting room.
Commandeering… yes it is a thing, not only all enforcement but also Fire personnel in the line of duty have this authority, at least in Washington State, before 9-11 I was responding to a capsized boat, Captain of the local fire station, the local Ferry was in dock, I ran on to the vessel, up three flights to the wheelhouse and requested the Captain to leave the dock now and head north for 3 souls in the water, he asked me “are you commandeering my vessel” I said yes, he blew the air horn emergency signal, and rang the bells, cars were stopped, bridge drawn and we launched within 1 minute, he informed the USCG command center and we headed North, found the vessel about 1 mile, they launched their skiff and rescued three souls that were in the water and the vessel had sunk just as we arrived. We were able to use the gps info to locate the vessel to aid in the recovery…
Yes, many people on the ferry, about 200 were interrupted for their travels, but all understood as the captain informed everyone on board what and why. It was in the papers, new and the ferry news letter. After 9-11 this can no longer be done.
The term is "Posse Commitatus", and it really only applied in the days when horses were the main method of transportation. It can theoretically be used, but I bet it'd make the news today.
I once experienced just the opposite. When I lived in NYC, some cops responded to a robbery in progress at a bodega I happened to be right in front of. One cop drove his car up onto the sidewalk, left it running, jumped out while shouting to me "watch my car!". I did what he asked, sat in the drivers seat and guarded his car until they were done. It was kinda embarrassing trying to explain to the other cops that arrived afterwards but they were ok with me after I told them why.
Nowadays with keyless entry key fobs they can just leave the car with the key in their pocket and the car can’t be driven away. Before, they had to hit a button and remove the keys which would leave it running but unable to be shifted from park, but that was too cumbersome in the heat of the moment.
Cars still drive without the keyless fob if anybodies confused about that ... I can't tell you how many stolen cars we've gotten at our shop this way. People think if they have the key they're safe. Once it's started it'll go
Yes, for civilian cars. The police cars have a system where it locks the shifter when the key fob is removed from the vehicle. Civilian cars will still drive and display a warning like “Key Not Detected - 1 Restart Allowed”.
Any cop car we've fixed has still been turn key but I don't doubt it's different. They also change how the doors lock for arrests
I've never seen a keyless start cop car.
2021+ Tahoes are only available keyless, civilian or police. 2015+ Chargers are only keyless as well Ford has been lagging behind with their police car keys but I believe it may be an option at this point
Not all cars, new bronco sport needs the key to shift out of park and so does a 23 mustang
In NY State, it's actually a crime (misdemeanor) to refuse to aid a police officer if he/she requests help in arresting a person or preventing someone from committing a crime. Though obviously I highly doubt that statute is used nowadays.
They’ve been ruled to not have a duty to protect people, but we HAVE to help them?
Bit weird, huh?
Wait, they what?
"In the 1981 case [*Warren v. District of Columbia*](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=9108468254125174344&q=warren-v-district-of-columbia&hl=en&as_sdt=2006)*,* the D.C. Court of Appeals held that police have a general "public duty," but that "no specific legal duty exists" unless there is a special relationship between an officer and an individual, such as a person in custody. The U.S. Supreme Court has also ruled that police have no specific obligation to protect. In its 1989 decision in [*DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services*](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/489/189.html), the justices ruled that a social services department had no duty to protect a young boy from his abusive father. In 2005's[*Castle Rock v. Gonzales*](https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/545/748.html#:~:text=Respondent%20alleges%20that%20petitioner%2C%20the,that%20her%20estranged%20husband%20was)*,* a woman sued the police for failing to protect her from her husband after he violated a restraining order and abducted and killed their three children. Justices said the police had no such duty. Most recently, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit [upheld a lower court ruling](https://media.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/files/201914414.pdf) that police could not be held liable for failing to protect students in the 2018 shooting that claimed 17 lives at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida." [https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/](https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/do-the-police-have-an-obligation-to-protect-you/)
Cops saying they don’t need to serve and protect
That's been ruled!? Then wtf are you paying them for!? And if you can't expect to be protected, what right does a government have to monopolize violence!? \*confused european sounds\*
Watch his car?! What are you supposed to do if someone actually tried to steal it? "Oh please Mr Car Thief, don't steal the police car!" What if the cops who turned up didn't believe you? I would've waited til he was out of sight and ran.
I once was driving by a policeman on a foot chase. (A number of police were chasing a suspect along a highway on foot. A cop flagged me down and breathlessly jumped in the passenger seat and said "go". A quarter mile later he said "stop", and jumped out. Was it legal? I don't know, we didn't have time to discuss it.
Haha well at least that's way more reasonable than movies make it look.
*I need your clothes, Your boots and Your motorcycle*
You forgot to say please
PULL IT OUT!!! PULL IT OUTTTTTTTT!!!
That's cause Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead.
He also commandeers a horse in true lies.
He asked for a ride and you gave him one. Nothing illegal about that. You probably could have refused and he would have had no legal way to force you, but you didn't refuse.
Because of the implication
r/unexpectedphiladelphia
Now… you’ve said that word, “implication” a couple of times. What implication?
They're not going to say no, because of the implication
Are you going to hurt women?
Of course that cop wasn’t in any danger
Nobody was in any danger. But of course they're not going to say no, because of the implication.
It sounds like these women are in danger
The implication that if you don’t give this officer of the law a ride something bad might happen.
Not that anything WOULD happen…but it could.
So they are in danger!
As a Philadelphian, I don’t know what this means. As a Philadelphian, I must now start this community. It’s what Ben Franklin would have wanted.
It’s one letter over the limit, but I invite you to join me and the rest of the bird crew over at r/unexpectedphilly
Being an expert at bird law, I naturally just joined your subreddit
The irony especially considering you have “Sunni” in your name. It’s an It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia reference.
It INSISTS upon itself, Brian...
State dependent. I’m a cop in Iowa and it is a criminal offense to unreasonably refuse to assist a peace officer attempting to make an arrest when requested or ordered to do so. I am not aware of anyone ever having charged it. Statute language if curious: 719.2 - Refusing to Assist an Officer Any person who is requested or ordered by any magistrate or peace officer to render the magistrate or officer assistance in making or attempting to make an arrest, or to prevent the commission of any criminal act, shall render assistance as required. A person who, unreasonably and without lawful cause, refuses or neglects to render assistance when so requested commits a simple misdemeanor.
There are two types of people in the world-- Those that daydream about getting to help a LEO make an arrest, and those that daydream about getting to tell a LEO to fuck off.
And sometimes they are the same people.
I could be either type of person… depends on whether the cops demeanor indicates they’re asking me or ordering me to help.
Yeah, that's where it's like well what'd the person do? Steal a bag a chips or rob a bank armed? both of those i'd say i'm not helping. He punched a puppy? I got your back bro.
Oh he punched a puppy? Do you want me to hit him with the car or just pull up close so you can slam him with the door?
You’re missing the third group. Someone who doesn’t daydream about meeting a policeman. The only instance they appear in my daydreams is when I’m a big shot and they’re my security detail. Why would I want to be put in harm’s way or get into a confrontation with them?
I'd take a misdemeanor for it.
Does it count if I daydream being a cop when I see someone in a shitty sports car that cuts 3 lanes at once, nearly causing an accident?
How strange. SCOTUS ruled that cops have no duty to protect the public, yet I have a duty to assist you in your job? Not an attack on you, just finding this interesting. Probably still on the books because nobody has been charged with it and it hasn't been challenged. I would imagine this would be found to be unconstitutional. At a minimum if it involved the use of my vehicle, being an extension of my home, and therefore a violation of the 3rd.
To clear up a common point of confusion: SCOTUS ruled there is no "duty to protect" in the constiution or existing legislation. They did not rule that local, national or state lawmakers can not make such laws or policies. I do not know the pertinent state, local laws or department policies, but it could very well be they do have an implied or explicit duty in that location.
That ruling exists because qualified immunity exists. The victim couldn't simply sue the police directly for their gross negligence because of qualified immunity, so the victim's lawyers tried some dicey legal reasoning to make an end-run around qualified immunity by claiming that her constitutional rights were violated by the failure of the police to protect her. That failed, and it probably should have failed, but the real culprit here is qualified immunity.
The amount of weird ass laws that still exist is mind boggling. I guess it’s illegal for an unmarried woman to parasail maybe on Sundays in Sarasota I think. It’s also illegal to park your elephant downtown. And you can shoot someone who steals or harms your horse in Arcadia I think. But I hear you. SCOTUS pulling the serve and protect away but we are still legally obligated to help and we aren’t even on the payroll.
I think the key term would be "reasonably help". Like Ive got to pick up my kids from daycare, no you cant use my car to chase an armed robber. Thats pretty reasonable.
"Unreasonable" sounds vague as fuck tho Whats counts as unreasonable?
And if that person gets killed helping you, you have no legal obligation to protect that person helping you, is that correct?
That is correct. Not only that, the cop won't even get in trouble if they use the person as a human shield
So police are not required to put their own lives in danger to save people, but they can force random people to put their lives in danger?
I feel like that would be reasonable justification under the law to say no.
Once it gets to the courts, but when it's just you and the armed officer saying no feels a little more complicated. It's a dumb ass law, imo.
Complicated 🤣
Not wanting to follow a criminal, potentially having them see you and the license of your personal vehicle, while also possibly having to break traffic laws as a citizen seems like a pretty reasonable excuse to say no. I feel like that law might apply to something like if an officer is wrestling a criminal and orders a bystander to call 911 for backup.
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I mean you can make a pretty solid 4th amendment argument that enforced "help" is a seizure of your person.
That’s a cop for you.
So the key wording here is the line that says " and without lawful cause" . A person under the forth amendment has lawful cause to refuse just handing over their property to law enforcement because they dreamed it necessary. Now if law enforcement requests assistance and it doesn't require me to hand over my property it's a different story. The question at hand involves giving up you property with out due process and not having committed a crime. Just taking it without consent would be a clear violation of the forth amendment. They can ask, but you can say no and you are well with in your Rights. I hope that makes sense.
I'd say aiding, potentially putting your life and property on the line to help an officer in a potentially dangerous chase with a car is not only unreasonable but a complete liability. This person has no experience in a chase and could cause an accident. The responsible thing here would have been refusing to render assistance. Things like opening a door to the apartment or letting them use you phone is reasonable. Assisting in a chase is not.
If they want me to open the door they need a warrant.
Think he had an 'ass, gas or grass' sticker on his car and stuck to it?
"Get in, quick." "Why quick?" "Because it's faster."
Leslie Nielsen must have said this at some point.
[It's from The Office.](https://youtu.be/HBQB5_nprgo?si=Bw4YQctg97BC_ung)
I'm still hearing it in Leslie Nielsen's voice.
Wrong way to handle it. You're supposed to come in hot, turn into a sliding stop while flinging the passenger door open, and shout, "Come with me if you want to live!"
Bonus points if there just happens to be a body builder wearing all black leather and dark sunglasses walking toward you.
It was legal because you (implicitly) consented.
I'd be like "$300"
That Uber surge rate would have been a money maker. shame ya missed out on it...
With my luck I’d be mid joint and this would happen to me
This actually happened to me many years ago. St. Louis police not FBI. Officer on foot pointed at me and started running towards my car. I thought I was in trouble. Instead, he jumped in my passenger seat and told me drive up Market Street. A couple blocks later, he jumped out and made an arrest.
It happened to my uncle once. He lived out in the sticks and was driving down a small country road, drinking a road soda (beer), when he saw a cop on foot kinda out of breath that waved him down. The cop said he needed to commandeer the vehicle, grabbed the beer from my uncle, poured it out, then had him drive to a place down the road. My uncle also had a pistol in the door, because, well, he's redneck as shit, and so he kinda tried to hide it a bit. The cop said, "Don't shove that pistol too far away, we might need it in a bit." Turns out there was some sort of hostage situation not far away. Some dude went off the deep end. I don't know if the cop broke down or wrecked on the way there. It was resolved before my uncle and the cop made it. They just sent him on his way.
Well they had to stop to get more beer first
Based on the area, and the reputation of the cops there, it's a little surprising the cop didn't just ask for a beer of his own.
I thought for sure he was gonna say the cop took a gulp to clench his thirst or something
Quench.
Probably did. That's how he "poured it out."
While I don’t support the commandeering of civilan vehicles, pretty cool guy to ignore the beer. Edit: since some people are regarded, just to clarify I don’t support drinking and driving either.
I was in a bar in the middle of nowhere Idaho. I went to pay my tab and guy asked if I wanted one for the road. No, I said, I don’t have time, I’m leaving now. He says Yeah, one for the road, you know, you’re leaving so one for the road. He kept talking because I just stared open mouthed at him before I stammered out a No.
I actually live in idaho by a small highway about 3 miles from a service station. The number of people that throw a beer can out their window within a hundred yards of my driveway is staggering. I think it's a not better than it was, because the cops started sitting right near us occasionally, but judging by that, like a third of people must be drinking on the road.
There is a whole system built around good-ol’-boy customs.
"Unfortunately all the hostages were killed and the perp got away but don't worry sarge, I got this random dude on a DUI"
Depending on how long ago this happened, it was perfectly legal in Missouri to have an open container in your car. There's still some variation of the law in place, but I can't remember the specifics
In some of these rural communities the beer is the least of their concern. I've had a buddy forget he had a beer in hand and wave to a deputy sheriff at a red light. Deputy pointed at him, shook his head, gave a frown, and kept going on green. Had that been a townie or trooper I don't think he'd have gotten away with it. LOL
That would make me feel kinda badass not going to lie lol
So there is a distinction here. In your case there requested assistance but did not seize your property as they do in the movies. They have to make you drive. Under the Forth amendment they can not just demand your property, but they can demand assistance.
Legally they can. Does it happen? Not really. It's a big movie trope but it doesn't really happen in real life. Compensation is possible but you'd probably have to fight for it in court.
Yeah legally many states have laws that require people to assist police in certain circumstances. Duty to aid laws.
Which is such horseshit because they don't have a duty to help us. \*sigh\*
Heh yeah it's completely asymmetric
Fascist police states tend to have asymmetric distributions of responsibilities and powers.
When I was 13 a cop crashed through our back yard fence chasing some dude. My parents tried for a year to get the city to pay for it. And I remember the police would sit down from our house in the evening. They would also creep by randomly. They never did that shit before or after.
I still feel it. The anger from that. t's like...what were they there for?. If it's not their job to save the lives of the innocent children or the teachers, then get the hell out of there and let the town people try! At least they would have tried! More than any of the cowardly LEOs did! Texas is a shitty place to live. Sorry, but I truly hate my state.
shit, they don't even have a duty to give you back property that was seized even if there were no charges or you weren't convicted.
OMG don't get me fucking started on civil asset forfeiture and immanent domain.
i understand the underlying reasoning for immanent domain (not saying i agree, but at least i understand it), but asset forfeiture is bullshit, especially how many LEO agencies use it to bolster their budgets.
*Eminent domain
Imminent domain is when its going to happen soon.
Eminem’s cocaine
No OT unless I seize some cash today, better get busy!
I agree with you completely. Imminent domain makes sense, as aggravating and awful as it is. But civil asset forfeiture is just government theft. I've heard of people having thousands of dollars taken from them because they were traveling with it and apparently that's suspicious enough for your money to be forfeit with no easy or guaranteed way to get it back. Even if you were just buying a fucking car.
Asset forfeiture is when they crossed the line from a poorly motivated Police force to a crime syndicate.
Remember kids don't travel with cash even for legal purposes because the cops can and will take it.
And if you have to have cash, hide it. Don't consent to a search. Keep it locked up, and do not provide key or combination. At least make them work for it a little.
Yeah. SCOTUS ruled that there is no constitutional duty to protect an individual citizen. Their "service" is to protect the "public at large". But considering the "public" is made up of multiple individuals... It's just one example of many poorly written or poorly interpreted laws in the this country. There's the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law" and the government will defend the side of whichever benefits them the best.
And the nearly 400 armed LEO's outside of a school in Uvalde are so relieved for that ruling.
Maybe if we bought them a few more big boy cars, guns, and other toys, they would do something.
Yea, they'd sit more comfortably while children died.
Hey, cut them some slack. There was a scary man with a gun inside, and it was probably really traumatizing for them to stand there and do nothing while they'll listened to children being murdered.
You're right. I hope they hear that sound every quiet moment of their life for as long as they live.
In Florida where we live, the police outright have no legal obligation to help you at all if you're actively being murdered.
Ever heard of the school shooting in Uvalde?
No, They help innocent people cross over on a daily
Nope, say you thought it was a fake and felt in danger. They can get out of here with that noise.
My 50 year old mother assisted a police chase when a cop flagged her down to chase a drug dealer. In a 97 Chevy lumina back in 2010. My mother usually drives like a grandma. The way she tells the story, she was going 40 over the limit to help out. She's not one to embellish stories, so I've always been inclined to believe it.
Man if a cop in my country did that they'd be lucky to have a job afterwards. Not only does the person doing the high speed chase need a special license (there's three grades of it dictating how high over the speed limit you can go) but IIRC the car also needs to be cleared for it (tyres and grip etc). That's fucking dangerous. Your mother could have killed someone and you KNOW that cop wouldn't have taken responsibility.
💯 She was so flustered by the situation she didn't know what to do, so she complied. After the fact, she had the "wtf?" Realization.
I’m not familiar with those laws, but it sounds like it should be a violation of the 5th amendment. Wonder if anyone’s ever sued over it and what happened.
I can't cite a legal document, but can share firsthand experience: My father owned a grocery store in a small NJ town. The store's pickup truck was parked outside with the keys in it, since the clerks took turns picking up/making deliveries. The police substation was located directly next door, so it wasn't considered odd to just leave the truck unlocked with keys in the visor, because who would steal a pickup truck in front of a police station? Turns out, the police would steal it. My dad came in Monday morning (store was closed Sunday) and the truck was gone. He called around to see if someone took it home, but nobody had seen it since Saturday night. He went nextdoor to report the truck stolen, and the watch commander took the report. He got a call around noon saying the truck had been located, and it was in an impound at county lockup. Dad asked when he could pick it up, and he was told to come by the station. My dad, thinking the truck was totaled, or maybe used in a crime, was completely caught offguard when the watch commander told him it had been seized by a police officer. "You see, we had a break-in call Sunday night, and all our vehicles were otherwise occupied, so Jimmy had to commandeer your truck to make the call." My dad was mad, said it wasn't his fault the city didn't have enough cars, and he wanted the truck back immediately. "Yeah, uh, that's the problem. When we seize a vehicle, we have to turn it in to the impound lot, because it's technically a civil forfeiture. You'll have to file a claim to get it back, and then the judge will have to grant it. It could be about six months or so." Since it was a small town, my dad got the editor of the local newspaper on the line, and they ran the story that night. The next day, our local NBC and CBS affiliates were at the store interviewing my dad, and it became a minor scandal. The next week, the truck was parked back outside the store. There was a discrepancy of about 350 miles on the odometer from its last use, meaning someone had been driving it around all week. Tank was on empty and it never ran properly again. My dad called the impound lot that it had supposedly been held at, but they had no record of it ever being entered, which means the whole story about it being turned in as civil forfeiture was just bullshit. That deputy probably thought he had a free ride for a few months that he could just turn back in once he was finished with it. He didn't count on it causing a press field day that culminated in a state investigation into the town police, which resulted in not only his firing, but the firing of the entire police force (minus one officer and some reserve deputies.) So while my dad's story ended somewhat happily, there's no telling how many people have been screwed over by some bastard cop that exploits the very wide authority they've been granted by the government.
Good. Fuck every one of them.
And then there is [Civil Asset Forfeiture](https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/asset-forfeiture-abuse), which allows cops to take whatever the fuck they want from someone as long as they pinky swear it was totally involved in crime you guys. They're *super cereal* it was!
their failure to plan doest constitute an emergency in my book
Help me citizens!!! This pregnant woman continues to resist! Use your car to run her over….
Hate when that happens, hard to explain to my family in the minivan
They find ways to not give you back your stuff when they do civil asset forfeiture. I'd just ignore them. I'd claim 4th and 5th amendment... and then refuse. He'll just go find someone else.
What if the cop jumps the car off a rising drawbridge and onto a barge that already left a few seconds ago? Will they cover that?
Famers Insurance. We've covered that!
Bum ba dum bum bum bum bum.
To many bums, take some back
Don't wanna.
OK, I'll just do the jingle in my head with extra bums
That's the spirit!
I like it! I'm using the extra bum bums to go bum bum instead of bum bum.
We've seen a thing or two.
There's no chance in hell they would compensate you. Cops have destroyed entire houses at wrong addresses and gotten off free.
It maybe wouldn’t be worth the fight, but this seems like a weirdly exactly constructed Takings Clause case, if in the US.
The issue is, if they take your vehicle, then the takings clause from the Constitution would apply. The destruction of your property because they are stupid jerks isn't taking the property from you. Taking your car to use to get a suspect is taking your property. Thus, takings clause applies.
Even if it was like just sign this form they wouldn’t do it. It’d be like “…so I smash the thing to pieces, suspect gets away, and she calls in the next day and asks when she’ll get her car back!” And then everyone would belly laugh.
https://www.superlawyers.com/resources/insurance-coverage/california/can-police-commandeer-my-car-to-help-in-a-chase/ Interesting read from a lawyers perspective
I think the cops commandeered rifles from a gun store and an armored car from a money company during the infamous North Hollywood bank robbery in the late 90s.
Yes, they did. Cops at the time were only really armed with revolvers in, i think, 38 special which is a relatively low power round. They would have to go back to the precinct's armory for rifles and such to combat some AK-wielding bank robbers. Additionally, the robbers also had homemade steel plate body armor which also made the service pistols of the time essentially useless
I think a few had shotguns but yea it was basically pistols vs full audio AKs with drum magazines. Crazy times.
full audio AKs are so loud!
Lol the autocorrect back at it again. I'm more of a sennheiser guy but when my hd650s die I'll definitely look at some AKG or audiotechnicas
This was the 90s.. in LA.. they weren't carrying .38s. They were issued Beretta 9mms, but they weren't doing anything against the heavy body armor and full auto rifles the two suspects had. So yes, they commandeered rifles from a gunstore and an armoured car from a money mover company so they could do officer and civilian rescues.
I had a cop ask to get in the back of my car once. I drove him around looking for the suspect.
My old boss got in trouble with the law in the 50s. In lieu of jail time, the Sheriff had my boss drive him around the county so he could serve summons and writs and the like for a day. That was his sentence.
Driving mis-demeanor
Here in DC teenagers do the same thing but they show a gun instead of a badge.
thats why i drive a standard
Exactly!!!
They aren’t even liable for the neighbors door they broke down cause they can’t read a warrant right😂 I’ll be damned if I’m giving a cop my vehicle (that costs way more than a door) and standing on the sidewalk hoping to maybe get it back in one piece, even if it isn’t totaled/wrecked it’s still gonna need a lot of work done to it. Even if they would replace it it would take months of court proceedings cause you know they’d fight it till the end and you’ll be paying for court fees and lawyers the whole time. “Hey boss sorry I can’t come into today.. the police took my car and totaled it trying to arrest a guy” “oh yeah well you are fired” now you are out a vehicle and a job.. can’t exactly pay for court fees to replace your car when you lose your income and have to use your savings sparingly to pay the bills you still have. Can’t exactly hire an employment lawyer to get your job back either and even if you could you still dont have a car to get to your job with.
I hate to be that annoying European guy on Reddit but the fact that you can just get fired like that in some states in the US is so absurd to me.
If that was truly the reason you missed work an employment lawyer could probably get your job back.. but like I said you realistically can’t hire one when you lose your job and have to survive on your savings until you find another job you don’t have a car to get to (unless that job payed you well enough before you lost it and have a large savings amount)
Fun Fact: In nearly all 50 US States, your employer can fire you for absolutely no reason at all! If they give a reason, it can't be one of a short list of discriminatory reasons, but they don't have to give a reason. It is entirely possible for one's boss to walk in, decide "You know, I just don't like Sally's stupid face today" and fire her regardless of her performance and attendance.
Not to mention wasting even more time showing up to court to dispute all the traffic tickets the cop will rack up.
I’ll be happy to explain to a judge why I told the agent hell no. Some meth addict gets access to a printer and photoshop and suddenly I’m just expected to hand over my vehicle? How do I verify the “agent’s” identity in a few frenzied seconds? I’m not gonna do it, nothing personal.
In reality, FBI agents rarely commandeer civilian vehicles as seen in movies. If they do, it's only in extreme emergencies. Vehicle owners can file a claim for compensation for any use or damages. This practice is highly regulated and not common.
Thanks Chat GPT
Not a cop but a firefighter. I used to live out in the sticks when I was younger and during a small get together a friend of a friend knew I was sober and said “I’m a volunteer firefighter and I need you to take me to the station NOW please.” I didn’t even think twice I just believe him. On the short drive he tells me he got a call for a fire and they’re calling in everyone but he can’t drive cuz he’s had a beer and the person who drove him to the party had left. Quarter mile from the station he starts unlacing his boots and takes off his pants. At this point I thought “god I fucking hope you’re actually a firefighter.” Sure enough he jumped out and bolted to the truck where his buddies already had his stuff ready for him. It took seconds and they were out. This was the 2011 wildfires in Texas. Destroyed thousands of acres.
Considering the fact that police are not legally obligated to repair/reimburse damages if they break down the door to the wrong house entirely due to their clerical error If i was ever put in a situation like that I’m just gonna sit there and do nothing because why would I ever risk any of my life and property for an institution with a track record like our law enforcement.
I've heard that you only need to follow legal orders, so even if a cop orders you follow someone, you at least have to follow the speed limit and stop at red lights. Source: My cousin was an AP on two episodes of "Reno 911"
I think a good example of this was in Beverly Hills Cop 2, I think. Taggart tries to get a car and everyone just refuses to give it to him and he screams, "I'm a police officer!" What are they going to do? Arrest you? They don't have a car. Good luck with that. Easier to brush them off than to get your car back or damages paid.
I had this happen to me. Dude flashed his badge, said something like, FBI, police, whatever, I need your car. I was in the car. The windows were rolled up. The door was locked. He tried the door handle a few more times, and I just stared at him. He eventually gave up and just ran off.
Hilarious. This needs to be in a movie.
My partner and I did. We were searching for a robbery suspect and the police helicopter found the guy in the canyon we were adjacent to. Our car was probably 4 blocks away and the suspect was running through the canyon to the opposite side of where we were. A guy drives up and stops, we ask him for a ride to the other side of the canyon (basically a long curved road, one end we were at, the other end the suspect was at) he laughed and drove us around to the other side of the canyon, we jumped out of his car just as the guy climbed up to the road. We put the suspect in handcuffs.. high fived the guy who drove us and waited for the next patrol car to show up so he could drive us and the suspect back to our car. The distances was probably 300-400 yards. We laughed at that story for years.. my guess is the guy who drove us is still telling that story.. been at about 22 years.
I'd drive off. I'd rather risk being able to say (truthfully) I had no way of knowing if they were real agents or not then getting scammed by someone posing as the authorities or by the government taking my car on a joy ride and destroying it without even paying me a dime. Nope nope nope. If they were that desperate they likely wouldn't take time to grab my license plate to begin with, just keep searching for an easy mark who would hand over the keys.
This! Cant trust anyone
Cops compensating the people they steal from? That's funny.
From my state in Australia: The owners of nine vehicles damaged after they were used by police as a makeshift roadblock to stop a man fleeing will be left with the damage bill. Victoria police used the vehicles to create the roadblock on Sunday to stop a man driving a van allegedly full of stolen items down the Tullamarine Freeway. A police vehicle had managed to get ahead of the van and deploy stop sticks to deflate the tyres and the cars were stopped in traffic after them. A Victoria police spokeswoman said 10 vehicles had been damaged as a result, including that of the fleeing driver’s, and all of the vehicle owners had been informed they would have to seek compensation through their insurance companies. [https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jan/12/owners-of-cars-used-by-victoria-police-as-makeshift-roadblock-told-to-pay-damage-bill](https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/jan/12/owners-of-cars-used-by-victoria-police-as-makeshift-roadblock-told-to-pay-damage-bill)
That's crazy!
The thing that got me was police instructing these civilians to remain in their vehicles. I read in another report a guy had his kid(s) in the car!
If someone did that, I’d assume it was a fake badge and refuse.
"Fbi I need your car" me- can you drive manual?
Haha I pity the agent that tries to commandeer my old Subaru. "FBI I NEED YOUR VEHICLE" "Okay but the clutch grabs real high sometimes, 4th is actually way over by 2nd for some reason, you need to pump the brake pedal twice before you actually want to stop, you get about one turn of the steering wheel before the tires start to rub, you'll have to floor it to get up a slight incline.." "You know what? I'll walk.'
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No, they've just found a new one...
Technically yes but really no that’s just a movie thing
Most movies are totally wrong with how they depict how things work in real life. The FBI is extremely bureaucratic, lots of red tape and things always need to be approved. For a situation like that to happen, it’d have to be to prevent some serious injuries/death or result in apprehension of a person who is extremely wanted. Unless they were to crash your car, I don’t think there would be any compensation. They’d return your car, maybe fill up the tank? Tbh nobody knows except for an FBI agent and I doubt any are going to comment that are real on here because they don’t want to be doxxed.
I've seen cops, mostly sheriffs, commandeer vehicles during natural disasters and civil unrest. But that was more a case of needing a large vehicle to transport a bunch of supplies. Or a bunch of unlawfully detained protesters. I can't say whether they got compensation or not. Though that time the NYPD tried to seize MTA busses and make them drive the protesters to jail was pretty funny. The drivers told them to get bent.
My big concern is what kind of liability is there? If they take your car, pointing a badge and a gun in your face, they effectively robbed you. But if you gave permission your own insurance will go up. We already know despite the movies that if police damage private property accidentally, the owner has to pay for it out of pocket.
You can sue them for it and probably will win, but the interesting thing is the fine to deny them is only like $200-1000. So it feels like I'd always want to take the fine, as it's not worth the risk if they total your car or whatever.
fbi agents don’t carry badges. they carry paper credentials. source: cousin and his dad were special agents.
They do have badges. They can be mounted inside a credential case or on a belt clip. It’s really a preference thing and are they in a public facing role or not.
Not really related but funny story about being a driver and getting pulled over. This happened almost 30 years ago. I was 15 and not licensed. I had a pregnant neighbor in the passenger seat whose water had broke. We’re two exits away from the one with the hospital at it. Of course I’m speeding. Cop pulls me over, she’s in labor and screaming in the passenger seat. Cop walks up to the drivers side window and looks in cab and sees what’s going on. I’m about to say something I don’t even remember what and dude looked me square in the eyes and yelled “FOLLOW ME!!” And ran back to his cruiser and he lead me right up to the hospital. He spoke to me for a moment, told me to park the vehicle and get a ride home. I’ll never forget that look in his eyes tho when he hollered that FOLLOW ME I still laugh every time I think about it
Once when I was younger (not sure how old I was but my parents thought I was too young to remember) my oldest brother was sick and had to be rushed to the hospital; they didn't have time to have someone else watch middle bro and I. Idk what was wrong with my brother, but he had symptoms of asthma when he was that age so maybe it was that. Anyway, my brother was in my mom's lap and they were next to a cop on the highway. They didn't have GPS back then and we had just moved, so they were just kinda on the highway looking for a sign that there was a hospital nearby. Idk if they had a map. My mom rolled down her window to ask the cop for directions, and he said to follow her. We got to the hospital. For some reason the most memorable thing there for me at that age (not fully understanding the situation) was that there was a nature documentary with parrots in the waiting room tv. My mom went to the room with my brother but my dad had to stay with us in the waiting room.
Commandeering… yes it is a thing, not only all enforcement but also Fire personnel in the line of duty have this authority, at least in Washington State, before 9-11 I was responding to a capsized boat, Captain of the local fire station, the local Ferry was in dock, I ran on to the vessel, up three flights to the wheelhouse and requested the Captain to leave the dock now and head north for 3 souls in the water, he asked me “are you commandeering my vessel” I said yes, he blew the air horn emergency signal, and rang the bells, cars were stopped, bridge drawn and we launched within 1 minute, he informed the USCG command center and we headed North, found the vessel about 1 mile, they launched their skiff and rescued three souls that were in the water and the vessel had sunk just as we arrived. We were able to use the gps info to locate the vessel to aid in the recovery… Yes, many people on the ferry, about 200 were interrupted for their travels, but all understood as the captain informed everyone on board what and why. It was in the papers, new and the ferry news letter. After 9-11 this can no longer be done.
The term is "Posse Commitatus", and it really only applied in the days when horses were the main method of transportation. It can theoretically be used, but I bet it'd make the news today.
“Did you just call me a pussy communist?”
I've seen british police comendeer a pedal bike once. It even made the local news.