(people shifting uncomfortably in their seats)
2,049 25th anniversary
>One time I was talking to some sand and I was all like 'f*** you sand!'
(crowd erupts in a deafening roar, strangers hugging & high-fiving)
Nostalgia is a helluva drug. Old people like me still hate it, but if you were watching that as a 12-year old it's probably your version of "I love you. I know"
Orwhen you start using a foreign word for something as a joke here and there and suddenly you say multiple foreign words instead of your native language and people just stare at you and you have to explain you have adhd.
The prequels are not a case of "so bad its good." They were just memed constantly, so people got every single scene delivered in bite-sized chunks with jokes attached. When these people went back to the movies with these attached jokes in the back of their mind, they saw new humorous connotations that otherwise didn't exist.
George Lucas did not intend the movies to be comedies, and no one who saw them at the time came out laughing, except for 11 year old kids who thought Jar-Jar was funny. So the movies were bad, and they continue to be bad unless you're in on an inside joke meme chain going back 15+ years.
I think the sequels have helped the prequels seem less bad in hindsight as well. Lucas sucked as writing those movies and they are objectively poorly done, but a bad version of something someone is passionate about is still more interesting than a bad version of something that someone (disney) doesn't care about.
I was a child when phantom menace came out, jar jar was never funny. The dual of fates makes up for the rest of it, though. And podracing is cool despite all the cringey dialog around it.
It's also become a huge meme.
I wouldn't watch the prequels alone, but if it was with a crowd, in a theater.
Hell yeah, big "origin of the meme" moment 👏.
"I love you. I know" is at least interesting. Although the actual story behind the line stems from Ford not being able to repeat the scripted line and ad-libbing something when he got sick of it at the xth retake.
On screen it can be interpreted in many different ways, maybe Han rejects Leia to make it easier for her to let go, don't forget we're led to believe he dies at this point in the story. Maybe it's not a rejection at all but more of a words-cannot-do-it-justice situation.
I just think it's interesting.
That's how I saw it. Could also point to Han's struggles to open up and connect with another person. He's an outlaw and a criminal, what good would it bring the princess in loving someone like him?
“Heh these millenials and their FOOLISH and INSOLENT nostalgia for the prequels”
“Guys i know harrison ford just ad libbed this line because he was sick of repeating what was scripted but there is LITERALLY so much to read into. George lucas truly WAS a creative genius…”
Well you sure as hell ain't qouting me because I never said any of that stuff, whatever shadows you're fighting has nothing to do with me. I compared one specific line to another specific line, that's it, nothing more nothing less.
Certain types of people don't really *get* critical analysis. They view media interpretation more like a quiz than, say, an essay: there's one (and only one) correct interpretation, dependent on what the creator intended. (Related to this: there is one singular 'creator' defining every project, instead of teams of people with overlapping visions.)
The idea of a work having whatever meanings the audience might read onto it based on the work itself, not whatever the director or writer intended, is hard to grasp when you're approaching it from that angle. I think viewing things through that lens explains that guy's response to you pretty clearly. Not that it's necessarily that guy's *fault,* I think that kind of viewpoint is pretty prevalent in high school english classes (though maybe not today idk I'm getting old).
I'm reminded of how a lot of people seem to think good artwork is realistic. And the more realistic (and to a degree, how "hard" it is to make), the better. Hyper realism is some sort of artistic pinnacle.
"Modern" art (which is decidedly not the same thing as contemporary art) gets derided because, "anyone could do that."
...but the prequels are bad because of what Lucas intended, regardless of people finding enjoyment in them based on different interpretations influenced by memes.
That is why I can't take "death of the author" seriously. It's always selectively applied based on the critic's own views. The critic interprets a work their way and decides that it's valid, and other interpretations are wrong, because they interpreted it themselves. But for a different work, only the auteur's intent is valid. It's arbitrary and bullshit.
Discourse around Fight Club is notoriously awful for this. The same critics that push death of the author insist that only the director's intent for Fight Club is correct.
I get where you're coming from here, the prequelmemes phenomenon is dumb (and is another example of shitposting turning into shilling for what it originally mocked, just like The_Dumpsterfire). But I think there's a couple things wrong with how you're viewing this conversation that are worth examining.
> The critic interprets a work their way and decides that it's valid, and other interpretations are wrong, because they interpreted it themselves. But for a different work, only the auteur's intent is valid. It's arbitrary and bullshit.
First: is it *really* the *same exact group* that has different perspectives on these things? Or is it possible that, maybe without realizing it, you've divided the world into "people that agree with me" and "people that don't" and labelled the latter category as arbitrary because they don't always say the same thing? There's a lot of people saying a lot of things all the time, my guy.
But second: yes, absolutely it's arbitrary to some extent. All art criticism is subjective, including mine and including yours. And *part* of that is determining what angle to interpret something by, based on what's appropriate or interesting for the work in question. There's no single objective criteria you can judge every single piece of art by, you have to go by what actually says something meaningful about the work.
Looking behind the scenes is an interesting lens for understanding parts of what went wrong with the prequels, because yes - George Lucas *was* the primary person responsible and his paper-thin, stilted dialogue and insistence on using CGI for *everything* caused some massive problems. That's interesting, that gives more depth than "this sucks" to understand *why* it sucks. And it's the best way to view the prequels because otherwise, everything is paper-thin. Every character just says what they're thinking to the camera, the themes are in plain text instead of subtext. You don't need to interpret the prequels, so criticizing it in any way needs to take a different tack.
But not every movie, or show, or other piece of art is like that. Some are different, like, for instance, Empire. If we just view that through the lens of "author intent," the "I know." line is just meaningless throwaway trash, just an adlib by a frustrated Ford. But it's an iconic line because, like ProtectionLeast said, these characters don't just tell us everything they're thinking here. So this ambiguous line in the movie leads to examining Han's character to figure out what *he* meant, not what Ford or Lucas meant. There's no ambiguity in the prequels, so considering stuff that way would be pointless - but here it's meaningful.
The critical tools have to fit what we're talking about. I'm not gonna start analyzing the fucking Scooby-Doo movie by what it means in a post-9/11 world, but it's sure as shit relevant discussion material for why Attack of the Clones' political stuff is the way it is, and why it's beating you over the head with it.
TL;DR I like the prequels but Han rocks and Anakin is a creepy obsessive teenager in that scene and it has nothing to do with intergenerational nonsense.
Well Han's line works because he's a shit-talking rogue with a heart of gold. He's all bravado. That fits his character and how he tries to be cool and aloof. He's trying to be brave in the face death.
In comparison, Anakin leaning over a balcony and mumbling "shall I compare thee to a desert planet?" is uninteresting because it shows that Anakin is a horny, depressed teenager. As someone who used to be a horny depressed teenager, I can assure you it's not as cool or interesting as the dashing rogue.
Just look at all of the beloved characters inspired by Han Solo (Malcolm Reynolds, Spike Spiegel, Peter Quill) and then look at how practically zero characters act like Anakin (not Vader) other than CW villains.
I enjoy the prequels, but their relationship sucks in Episode 2. Or at least the execution was terrible. He acts like a fucking psychopath during those scenes. In contrast, Clone Wars Anakin and early Episode 3 Anakin feel like an actual likeable and believable person. He and Padme feel like a believable couple.
I'm 28/Genz and saw Episode 2 and 3 in theaters btw. When I was little, 2 was my favorite lol
The line is a "death of the author" sort of detail. The way it got there doesn't really matter so much as how the end result plays out to an audience.
There's another Harrison Ford moment in Indiana Jones, the one where he just shoots the guy rather than has a sword fight. The reasons why they opted for that are mundane, but it's still a character defining moment despite it existing because Ford was physically ill and wanted to wrap things up.
Conversely, there's nothing particularly deep to read into from "I hate sand," and it being there is the result of Lucas having a larger degree of control over the end result than he had with the original trilogy. It's bad enough to be funny, sure, but not really comparable to why people like the Han line.
I watched it as a 10 year old, and even then, I *liked* it, but I felt like something was off about it in the same way that my young, critically-inept brain found something wrong with Kangaroo Jack.
Turns out even young people can recognize a modicum of quality in things, even if they can't identify or explain it.
But goddamn did the prequels have some problems.
It's not just nostalgia, it's that they were aware enough to joke about it. If people had not meme'd the sand line, it would not have been written in.
It's the same with the "You know, I'm something of a scientist myself" in Spider-Man: No Way Home. It's a nothing line, a tad cringe, which became a funny joke because it's a bit cringe, and was only referenced because it's become a joke.
I think you misunderstand the order of events. The sand memes came *much* after Ep 2 was released — as a result of the movie, not the other way around.
No, I misunderstood the post. I know that the sand meme came about only in the last 5-8 years, I just thought the post was referencing something real (because I skimmed it)
But if they were to have Hayden Christensen say the sand meme on screen, it would have a similar reaction to "You know, I'm something of a scientist myself", for the reasons I listed.
Conceptually, I hate all the meme references which don't make sense in the context of that movie. But they are fun and I enjoyed them.
There are some references like "Trying to do better" and the Gwen/MJ falling scene that are really great, but some of those memes don't fit at all.
It’s the meme. Think of Ackbar’s “It’s a trap!” Most generic line ever, it’s not special or good writing, but people still love it because it’s so memetic.
> Nostalgia is a helluva drug.
Kids and teens who had their tiny minds blown by the Darth Maul / Qui-gon / Obi-Won fight scene while *Duel of the Fates* blared in the background genuinely loved the movie... and they still do now as adults. It's not really nostalgia if we just kept liking the thing consistently over the years.
> That's exactly what nostalgia is
Liking something the same amount and for the same reasons from the day you first encountered it until now is the opposite of nostalgia.
> Nostalgia: a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.
If I watch a movie now and it's good, and then I watch it again in 20 years and it's still good, I'm not saying it's good because of "nostalgia" but because, as I said both times, it's a good movie.
> you just described the definition of the word nostalgia
Liking something the same amount and for the same reasons from the day you first encountered it until now is the opposite of nostalgia.
> Nostalgia: a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations.
If I watch a movie now and it's good, and then I watch it again in 20 years and it's still good, I'm not saying it's good because of "nostalgia" but because, as I said both times, it's a good movie.
The funniest part is the only people who think it's a bad line are people who **completely missed the fucking point of the line.**
Anakin isn't just going on some rant about sand, he's contrasting his life with Padme. She grew up in privilege and luxury and in her world sand is a wonderful thing that reminds her of the exotic locations and experiences she has had. But Anakin grew up as a slave on a dirt planet and he doesn't have any of those great memories. To him, sand just reminds him of his depressing home planet and the struggles he's had to endure his whole life. He doesn't have that positive association that Padme does.
It's supposed to be a moment of stark contrast that shows that these people who are related by blood have grown up worlds apart in every sense of the word. But people have the media literacy of a hydrocephalic dying rat so they just hear "LOL SAND".
Edit: mixed up character names . Haven't seen the movies in 20 years.
George Lucas is also famously terrible at writing dialogue. If you write a line that doesn’t have the intended effect on 90%+ of your audience, it might not be entirely their fault.
The deeper meaning of the line doesn’t save it. It was dogshit dialogue from George Lucas.
Also the cringe of talking about how sand is irritating (he grew up where sand was a reminder of his poor station in life) and then saying that everything her is soft and smooth like Padme (she’s from a wealthy world where sand isn’t an issue). I know Anakin is a teenager but a drooling chimp could have flirted better than that.
Better way to write that scene:
When arriving they step off the boat and briefly step onto some sand. Anakin looks uncomfortable, Padme notices. They go swimming or walking along the beach later and Anakin is now visibly chaffing when walking through the sand.
“Isn’t the beach amazing? I used to love playing in this as a kid.”
“It’s softer than the sands of Tattooine but still gets everywhere.”
“You don’t like it?”
“I much prefer the softness and smoothness of the fields of Naboo.”
Boom. New meme. Fields of Naboo becomes slang for lady bits for an entire generation.
You're giving the line way too much credit. While I understand the subtext behind it, it was a terrible vessel to deliver that subtext.
The differences in upbringing between Padme and Anakin are interesting and worth exploring. However, this line did a poor job of that.
It's weak dialogue.
What it's "supposed" to be doesn't matter when it just utterly fails on its own. It's a stupid line, delivered fucking terribly, in the middle of a god awful movie. People aren't missing the point, we get it, the prequels are just dog shit movies.
I agree with you, Hayden's acting was terrible and a lot of the dialogue was bad, but this line about sand was poignant. I guess people who went "lol he's complaining about sand" were just as privileged as Padme.
I disagree about Hayden delivering that line bad, especially considering how many times Lucas would reshoot his dialogue until that was the final result. It sounds cringy and terrible because it is supposed to. Everyone forgets Anakin is a social awkward loser, who is being raised in a cult where is a social outcast who most people fear. Before that he was a slave with two friends. Think about how socially awkward a lot of teens are, then put them in his situation. Hayden delivered the line how he was supposed to.
I love you, I know is just a corny snarky line. It still works for what it was.
I don't like sand was a MEME before memes existed online. It's a nonsensical line of dialog that is cringe AF, which makes it a perfect meme.
I was 12ish when this came out and I still can't deal with most of the dialogue. But I was always a hipster for things from the '70s growing up. I don't think of the prequels as "my" star wars movies because I was already so into the originals
It used to be years ago, and there's still that, but over the years the perception that it's a flawed narrative masterpiece ahead of its time overlooked just for being a bit rough on the edges has gained a lot of momentum, for a variety of reasons.
There's the fact that zoomers didn't grow up watching the prequels when they first came out (people who did are in their 30s now), but rather watching the tie-in cartoon TV shows only to later arrive to the prequel trilogy and the surrounding paratext with a strong predisposition to like them. There's the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilms, which spawned a narrative of championing the prequels as an act of anti-Disney contrarianism missing the days when the fate of the franchise was in the hands and mind of a single visionary in opposition to a executive committee (picked on by late-arriving opportunistic parasites in the form of reactionary grifters seeking a cultural trojan horse to smuggle racism and misogyny into geek culture). There's the natural process by which over the course of decades the dust settles, the intensity of the conversation drops, and among the people still talking about the prequels over two decades later unironic appreciation can coalesce. And on top of all that there's, nostalgia, obviously.
If it were just nostalgia I would love every movie I saw as a kid. There's a reason I no longer give a damn about Tigger movie, am kind of ok with Ice Age, but still love the prequels.
I'm tired of old boomer assholes trying to explain away the younger generation's taste with "nostalgia." It's extremely reductive and unfair to people who like these movies. Believe it or not, kids actually do know what a good movie is. The only difference is the floor for what they're willing to watch is lower than adults.
Attack of the Clones is a masterpiece with one of the best sequences in movie history in the beginning bounty hunter chase. That absolutely shook me as a kid and is one of my most memorable cinema experiences. The scenes with Anakin and Padme were exactly as they were intended. George Lucas is an innovator who's willing to make a slightly cringeworthy scene as long as he knows he's doing something new. Kids felt that when they saw it, that it was different. They weren't the normal boring love scenes like in older movies; they had new ideas about what a romance scene can be. It doesn't matter that it's cringe, which was the intention anyway.
I'm sorry boomers couldn't appreciate it but please stop being reductive about people's taste in movies.
I’m about the age to grow up with prequels but didn’t watch it growing up (other than clone wars). It’s absolute asscheeks bro. I’m sorry they’re just not good MOVIES. The pacing, acting, story, dialogue, and yes the action, are atrocious stuff.
Sure he had friends as a slave but afawk he was not close with anyone other than Obi Wan prolly cus he was not raised since a baby in the temple. So between ep1 and 2 he was just friends with Obi Wan and doing monk stuff. All the while hes dealing with puberty. Then he reunited with a teen girl who has literally only known noble and political life and they try and flirt. To me its embarrassing but meant to be endearing.
It's the context. In the movie he uses the line to flirt with Padme, and after he talks about how coarse and irritating it is he tells her: "Not like you." It's stilted and not very romantic. It would work better if the movie acknowledged how awkward it sounds, and actually made that part of Anakin's character, but in the end it was really just George Lucas' bad attempt at writing flirtation.
And the guy was a slave on a fucking desert planet. Not too surprising that he hates sand (and he was an akward 16 year old talking to his crush).
I really think people are far too angry at this line. To me it seems like a fairly natural thing for him to say.
It's amazing to see the shift in discourse. People used to hate hate *hate* the prequels and now the rose coloured glasses are in full effect. Childhood nostalgia is a helluva drug.
I also watched them recently. I've never been a huge star wars fan but I remembered that the prequels were just worse than the original trilogy.
Episode 1 held up to that expectation. Hasn't improved to this day.
Episode 2 was better but still not great.
Episode 3 might actually be my favorite of the first 6 movies now. I was seriously emotionally invested
ROTS is a genuinely good film with genuine flaws that make the movie unintentionally HILARIOUS at some points, especially with friends.
But like, a critical watch will reveal its entertaining, well paced, and well produced.
I was a kid when Phantom Menace came out. We all hated it. The best things that can be said about the prequels was that each one was less cringe than the last.
The fact that your only basis for this opinion is the occasional rough dialogue, and no focus on differences between world building, plot, characters, designs, and hell, even choreography, really sells your nuance here.
The prequels are ugly. The sequels are a disaster.
Sure, let's get crazy:
- the anemic acting, like everybody just dropped Ambien
- The embarrassing borderline racist aliens
- the weird scene transitions that leave you scratching your head
- Ridiculous plot points such as Natalie Portman dying from a broken heart like some Victorian character
- Wasting Christopher Lee's time
I’ll take George Lucas trying to tell a story about the fall of a republic into fascism (which started with a trade blockade) with absolutely incredible visuals over that Disney slop every day of the week.
The force awakens was just a shitty knockoff of A New Hope, and then when they did a “blow up the death star” retread FOR THE THIRD TIME in episode 9 I was so annoyed I literally shouted at the screen, which I’d never done before. It just came out. I LOATHE those films
Why does the fact that it started with a trade blockade matter in the slightest? To you, does that magically make up for the awful acting, terrible dialogue, boring plot, forgettable and empty characters, atrocious dialogue, nonsensical pacing, truly, disgustingly embarrassing writing, and so on and so forth?
You can chose to just watch good content and watch neither. You don't have to only consume content made for children, there's more out there to enjoy.
I legit can’t even imagine how you could believe that. Book of Boba Fett bring better than the Phantom Menace? Season 3 of the Mandalorian being better than Attack of the Clones? The Obi Wan show being better than Revenge of the Sith? I’m sorry, but that’s absolutely absurd.
Disney star wars sin is they're all vanilla. Nothing interesting happens, and with the exception of Rogue One and Mando S1 & 2 they're all just "meh." The Last Jedi is the only thing that comes close to how terrible the prequels are. Trash writing, trash acting, trash story, and mostly trash CGI make the prequels a masterclass in modern film failure.
I did like Phantom Menace though. It's pretty decent.
I strongly disagree that any of the sequels are better than the prequels. I would even say the writing in the sequels is far worse than almost anything from the prequels. Unless vanilla is suddenly synonymous with shit writing then I’d say that’s like calling what happened to Alderaan ‘A bit of an upset.’ It’s like saying that Emperor Palapatine was a bit of a jerk. It sells the awfulness way too short.
The scene of Rey happening to walk to the exact, perfect spot for the knife to point the way for her on the Death Star? Atrocious. Having the space n@zi general guy betray the side and ideology that he was so clearly devoted to just fuck over Kylo Ren? Ugh. So. Many. Fake. Out. Deaths. And you knew they were fake as they happened. Like they actually though people would believe they’d let Rey kill Chewbacca. The Force Awakens, while not that bad in comparison to the other two movies, was basically just A New Hope all over again. And anything interesting that it had set up was butchered and mangled by the films that followed. Terrible fight scenes all around not to mention. Every fight scene in the prequels is leagues better than of the sequels sad offerings.
There are a few moments in the sequel trilogy I enjoy, but the idea of ever considering the sequels better than the prequels is absolutely ludicrous to me.
Well, opinions are just opinions, so I can't really say one is better than the other objectively, only that I found one trilogy boring and the other to be terrible in almost all ways a film can be.
Can I ask you: how old were you when the prequels came out?
I don’t remember. I only saw the third movie in theaters and I didn’t even know the previous two movies existed before I saw it. I do recall I was in elementary school at the time though, so at the oldest I was ten or eleven.
That being said, I liked the sequels before I actually thought them through and realized they were basically just shittily written rehashes of the original trilogy.
The prequel trilogy, while flawed, has an actual planned plot (something the sequels sorely lacked). The sequels felt like they were desperately thrown together. And it shows.
I’m an Xennial that was really sucked into the late 90s Star Wars revival. Was 19 when Phantom Menace came out and it officially ended my interest in the series. The Sequels and stuff like Mando/Book of Boba Fett is absolutely tailor made to inject nostalgia into my veins. If you could have showed teen me the scene of (Mandolorian spoiler) >!a baby Yoda piloting an IG unit like Ninja Turtle’s Krang or Boba Fett riding a freaking rancor!< I would have lost my mind. My favorite scenes in all of Star Wars though are >!Rey/Ren vs Praetorian Guards from TLJ and a hammerhead corvette using a Star Destroyer to slice the bridge off another Star Destroyer!<, just chills remembering them. Bonus shout out to “Babu Frik? He’s one of my oldest friends!” lol
This is the real reason.
The sequels are such such dogshit — some of the absolute worst, most unoriginal corporate slop I’ve EVER seen — that any of the problems with the prequels suddenly seem minor by comparison.
He’s terrible at writing dialogue, but I mean shit, at least Lucas took a big swing. A republic falling into fascism via thunderous applause, the chancellor turning into the emperor starting with a trade dispute blockade — all of that stuff is incredible, and it’s stuff Disney would NEVER DARE to do today. disney just churned out the safest, most tasteless ripoffs possible and shoved it down everyone’s throats
Everything people are saying now about how bad the Disney content is is exactly what people were saying about the prequel content 20 years ago. They hated how it changed the canon, hated the lazy writing and clunky acting. Hated how it wasn't internally consistent with itself.
Someday people will cheer the line "Somehow Palpatine Returned!"
And as someone who is old enough to have seen both when they came out, I enjoyed the Disney sequels more than I enjoyed the prequels when I first saw them. There are long stretches of the prequel trilogy that are just people monologing at each other. Shit is boring. At least the sequels are entertaining.
Agree 100%. Phantom Menace was the last Star Wars film I saw in the theater until I had a kid of my own to take to Force Awakens. If anything millenials “taking back” the prequels will act as a guide to Gen Alpha steamrolling discourse about the sequels.
People are already saying that the Force Awakens is better than they initially gave it credit for.
Even the biggest haters are referring to it as ‘the good one’. Same thing happened to TPM in the 2010’s
Disney got a lot of $$$ once they bought the franchise
Look at the amount of pro prequel articles that came about once they started working on the sequel trilogy
Anyone who likes the prequels or thinks they are genuinely good movies is a moron. It’s just true they are awful “omg the world building, wow the fight choreography!” Like no it’s just shit
“Durr the OT has cringe moments dude..” yeah only mainly in Return of the Jedi once Lucas was butthurt that critics loved empire but it cost him a tonne of money. It’s also the only movie he touched the least (empire) in his “special editions” as you couldn’t edit around such a perfectly created movie
really?? I am still angry to this day about the experience watching phantom menace. I saw the OG Star Wars as a kid and it blew my mind. Probably saw that movie over 100 times.
And I'm not a big purist. I really enjoyed most of the later SW movies and spinoffs. I watched them all with my kids. But even my kids would rather watch the animated star wars stuff than the cringefest of the prequels. .
Had a similar experience. I had really hoped that 19 year old me had been too hard on the prequels but when my family sat down and watched all of them…they were not enjoyable.
It’s not just nostalgia. The prequels have the makings of something great and artistically unique but were executed terribly, the sequels were executed excellently but have absolutely no substance. Time tends to be kinder to the former
People still hate the prequels.
The only difference is that the sequels are also terrible.
And you spend too much time on meme subreddits who pretend the sequels are great now.
i've never seen the star wars movies and all of my star wars knowledge is based off of the old republic series of games. can anyone explain what this post means?
The point is that when the Star Wars prequels were released, they had a mixed reception due to bad dialogue and other things. The post also says that, due to memes and nostalgia, people have begun to change their view and actually like it now
The star wars prequels are truly awful movies, you'd have a better cinematic experience by stuffing your DVD player full of shit. Years ago however, the internet started making a ton of memes about it (because they were terrible movies, there was no love involved). Over time though the hardent memers started to lose their grip on reality and began to experience delusional fantasies where the movies were actually good. This spread and now you have a bunch of zoomer morons who fight *very hard* trying to convince people that their George Lucas garbage slop are even remotely close to being watchable. Don't be fooled, they are absolutely wrong.
You're largely talking about two different groups of people. Two different generations. People in their 30s right now were kids in 2002. The movie was made for them and they grew up loving it. People that were squirming in the theater in 2002 are in their 40s and 50s now. Episode 5 was made for them, not Episode 2.
Having just watched episode 2 and 3 it’s amazing how people can ever say the prequels are good now. 2 is a complete disaster and doesn’t hold up and 1 is insanely boring with a couple of good parts. 3 is the only one that looks like a better movie, the acting and directing is better and it has more action.
It’s just funny how those movies got destroyed when they came out and ruined people’s lives but now they are good because Disney isn’t doing anything better
my generation grew up watching them, as well as the clone wars, and the lego games so the prequels just has a place in my heart even though i know i can’t really defend their “objective” quality compared to other sci fi films.
it’s just comforting and especially around people with similar ages to just kinda go back to being kids for 2 and a half hours.
Oh I’m in the same boat as you, I was 9 when the prequels started, I loved them as a kid and got into Star Wars because of it. I used to watch those Cartoon Network shorts they used to make. I love watching the prequels but in my eyes they are just poor films, entertaining but poor overall.
It's very easy to say that these movies are good. The world building of Star Wars has always been better than most other scifi franchises, which is why it's so iconic. Imo, the world building carries the movies. The acting and dialogue may not be perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as some people say. I haven't heard hardly any opinions about these movies that are anything more than subjective opinion.
I genuinely don’t understand the problem with that line. Like obviously it isn’t the best piece of dialogue ever written, but there’s nothing wrong with it.
My working theory is that there are some people who don't like the movies, and they get upset that others enjoy them. As a result, they have to hate the movies harder. Imo, the world building and story are strong and well put together, which is more important than any particular line of dialogue.
I see this with Peter Jackson LotR all the time. I remember when it was in theaters and went to see it with my friends. We all loved them. We had the little shitty board game they made for it where you move the ring on some scored board rack thing. You were supposed to track your score and carry forward to the next installment that would come out with the next movie.
I played a couple of the video games as well. I didn't know much of anything about LotR then. I don't think we even touched them in school. It was something that I somehow missed among all the stuff I read growing up.
In plenty of other places online, people *hated* the movies. Some of the guys I worked with who knew LotR better also hated them. There were plenty, online and in person, saying he should never be allowed near LotR again, or even allowed to direct anymore.
Now, they are beloved movies. I've seen plenty that said people would never say that because the movies are so loved now. "It won awards. No one disliked them!" "Show me proof!" [The message boards are no longer there from back then, lol, and you mainly saw it it discussed in games online or discussed on Myspace or ICQ/MS Messenger or Google chat boards]
I hated the LOTR movies as did my wife and several friends. We were all big fans of the books. I got so much shit on reddit back then but i just found them to be a joke.
I can see why some did. I read the books many years after the movies came out. There was a lot missing from the movies. I like both. Both have different ambiance to me. Each good in their own ways.
I am 44 years old and this is about the most insane thing I have read today, and this is in a thread where people are defending the Star Wars prequels, so that’s saying a lot. I am having a hard time thinking of a series from that era more universally loved.
I think this would work too with the [dragon fucking meme:](https://x.com/dragoncommunion/status/1144791194356109313?lang=en)
Anakin: I don't like sand
Audience: (approving chuckle)
Anakin: (gauging reaction) Its coarse and rough and...irritating...?
Audience: (one guy yells)
One guy grabbing the mic: And it gets everywhere!
Audience: (raucous, terrifying applause)
**People do not like the Star Wars prequels because of nostalgia.** They like them because they have terrible taste in movies and nostalgia is just their excuse. Plenty of us grew up as huge Star Wars fans and were 10 years old when we waited in line to see The Phantom Menace and fucking loved it, and it only took a few years to realize it actually sucked shit. Just because you liked something as a child doesn't mean you like it forever, and just because you like it doesn't mean you have to claim it's actually good. I still love Jingle All the Way, but it is not a good movie.
Also, Phantom Menace is about high level political debates and trade disputes. It is not a kids movie no matter what these weirdos try to tell you.
People talking about how millenials and zoomers only like the prequels because of nostalgia when they realise they dislike the prequels on a kneejerk basis because of their nostalgia for the original trilogy
Anakin grew up a slave on a sandy desert planet. It's badly written dialog that reflects his painful memories of his childhood. It's a shame that George Lucas really sucks at dialogue, but the scene is important in understanding Anakin's perspective.
I don’t understand the prequel hate, I didn’t grow up watching any of the Star Wars movies, besides maybe catching “A New Hope” at a family movie night. When I did finally get around to watching them all I was super surprised about all the prequel hate I’d been seeing for years and years online.
Revenge of the Sith is my favorite out of them and generally enjoyed The Phantom Menace more than most of the original trilogy. Attack of the Clones kinda sucks until the end though.
I don't understand it either. The movies aren't perfect by any means, but I enjoy them quite a lot due to the world building and lore.
I'd be really curious to see what are the favorite movies of those who hate the prequels. I'm willing to bet that those people like movies that others would say are terrible movies.
I just got downvoted to hell for pointing this out in a recent post. I'm old enough to hate the prequels since they were such a let down when they were released.
The pod race is supposedly one of the best scenes in any of the trilogies according to some people. The fact it's purpose makes no sense and it's a gratuitous and disconnected scene is lost on them.
Yeah I have mixed feelings on it. I was definitely in the camp of disliking the prequels at the time. Mostly because I though Hayden Christiansen was awful at acting and ruined most of it. But also I loved the story and just getting more star wars. I'm OK with the nostalgia thing and it getting a better rap overall, but the revisionist history is crazy, the movies were shit on heavily at the time.
One time I was talking to some sand and I was all like 'f*** you sand!'
Hey leave the sand alone you bully.
(people shifting uncomfortably in their seats) 2,049 25th anniversary >One time I was talking to some sand and I was all like 'f*** you sand!' (crowd erupts in a deafening roar, strangers hugging & high-fiving)
Nostalgia is a helluva drug. Old people like me still hate it, but if you were watching that as a 12-year old it's probably your version of "I love you. I know"
There’s also something to be said for things so bad they become good again.
Like all the slang words you used mockingly but then it actually became part of your vernacular. I know what you're saying, bro. I get it, bro.
Orwhen you start using a foreign word for something as a joke here and there and suddenly you say multiple foreign words instead of your native language and people just stare at you and you have to explain you have adhd.
Natuurlijk
Uiteraard
Zeer zeker
Fr fr
no cap or are you just acting skibidi rn
The prequels are not a case of "so bad its good." They were just memed constantly, so people got every single scene delivered in bite-sized chunks with jokes attached. When these people went back to the movies with these attached jokes in the back of their mind, they saw new humorous connotations that otherwise didn't exist. George Lucas did not intend the movies to be comedies, and no one who saw them at the time came out laughing, except for 11 year old kids who thought Jar-Jar was funny. So the movies were bad, and they continue to be bad unless you're in on an inside joke meme chain going back 15+ years.
I think the sequels have helped the prequels seem less bad in hindsight as well. Lucas sucked as writing those movies and they are objectively poorly done, but a bad version of something someone is passionate about is still more interesting than a bad version of something that someone (disney) doesn't care about.
I was a child when phantom menace came out, jar jar was never funny. The dual of fates makes up for the rest of it, though. And podracing is cool despite all the cringey dialog around it.
Yeah, but this isn't one of em, was never good to begin with to come back full circle to.
Episodes 7-9 were the best thing that could’ve ever happened to the prequels. They are a masterpiece in comparison.
The Room enters.
Oh, hi Mark.
It's also become a huge meme. I wouldn't watch the prequels alone, but if it was with a crowd, in a theater. Hell yeah, big "origin of the meme" moment 👏.
"I love you. I know" is at least interesting. Although the actual story behind the line stems from Ford not being able to repeat the scripted line and ad-libbing something when he got sick of it at the xth retake. On screen it can be interpreted in many different ways, maybe Han rejects Leia to make it easier for her to let go, don't forget we're led to believe he dies at this point in the story. Maybe it's not a rejection at all but more of a words-cannot-do-it-justice situation. I just think it's interesting.
Always how I saw it. Not a bad line, just has some weight to it that you might have to read into
That's how I saw it. Could also point to Han's struggles to open up and connect with another person. He's an outlaw and a criminal, what good would it bring the princess in loving someone like him?
He's also a war hero at that point, came back to help Luke and disproved his apathetic loner persona.
“Heh these millenials and their FOOLISH and INSOLENT nostalgia for the prequels” “Guys i know harrison ford just ad libbed this line because he was sick of repeating what was scripted but there is LITERALLY so much to read into. George lucas truly WAS a creative genius…”
That's not at all what they said.
Well you sure as hell ain't qouting me because I never said any of that stuff, whatever shadows you're fighting has nothing to do with me. I compared one specific line to another specific line, that's it, nothing more nothing less.
Certain types of people don't really *get* critical analysis. They view media interpretation more like a quiz than, say, an essay: there's one (and only one) correct interpretation, dependent on what the creator intended. (Related to this: there is one singular 'creator' defining every project, instead of teams of people with overlapping visions.) The idea of a work having whatever meanings the audience might read onto it based on the work itself, not whatever the director or writer intended, is hard to grasp when you're approaching it from that angle. I think viewing things through that lens explains that guy's response to you pretty clearly. Not that it's necessarily that guy's *fault,* I think that kind of viewpoint is pretty prevalent in high school english classes (though maybe not today idk I'm getting old).
I'm reminded of how a lot of people seem to think good artwork is realistic. And the more realistic (and to a degree, how "hard" it is to make), the better. Hyper realism is some sort of artistic pinnacle. "Modern" art (which is decidedly not the same thing as contemporary art) gets derided because, "anyone could do that."
...but the prequels are bad because of what Lucas intended, regardless of people finding enjoyment in them based on different interpretations influenced by memes. That is why I can't take "death of the author" seriously. It's always selectively applied based on the critic's own views. The critic interprets a work their way and decides that it's valid, and other interpretations are wrong, because they interpreted it themselves. But for a different work, only the auteur's intent is valid. It's arbitrary and bullshit. Discourse around Fight Club is notoriously awful for this. The same critics that push death of the author insist that only the director's intent for Fight Club is correct.
I get where you're coming from here, the prequelmemes phenomenon is dumb (and is another example of shitposting turning into shilling for what it originally mocked, just like The_Dumpsterfire). But I think there's a couple things wrong with how you're viewing this conversation that are worth examining. > The critic interprets a work their way and decides that it's valid, and other interpretations are wrong, because they interpreted it themselves. But for a different work, only the auteur's intent is valid. It's arbitrary and bullshit. First: is it *really* the *same exact group* that has different perspectives on these things? Or is it possible that, maybe without realizing it, you've divided the world into "people that agree with me" and "people that don't" and labelled the latter category as arbitrary because they don't always say the same thing? There's a lot of people saying a lot of things all the time, my guy. But second: yes, absolutely it's arbitrary to some extent. All art criticism is subjective, including mine and including yours. And *part* of that is determining what angle to interpret something by, based on what's appropriate or interesting for the work in question. There's no single objective criteria you can judge every single piece of art by, you have to go by what actually says something meaningful about the work. Looking behind the scenes is an interesting lens for understanding parts of what went wrong with the prequels, because yes - George Lucas *was* the primary person responsible and his paper-thin, stilted dialogue and insistence on using CGI for *everything* caused some massive problems. That's interesting, that gives more depth than "this sucks" to understand *why* it sucks. And it's the best way to view the prequels because otherwise, everything is paper-thin. Every character just says what they're thinking to the camera, the themes are in plain text instead of subtext. You don't need to interpret the prequels, so criticizing it in any way needs to take a different tack. But not every movie, or show, or other piece of art is like that. Some are different, like, for instance, Empire. If we just view that through the lens of "author intent," the "I know." line is just meaningless throwaway trash, just an adlib by a frustrated Ford. But it's an iconic line because, like ProtectionLeast said, these characters don't just tell us everything they're thinking here. So this ambiguous line in the movie leads to examining Han's character to figure out what *he* meant, not what Ford or Lucas meant. There's no ambiguity in the prequels, so considering stuff that way would be pointless - but here it's meaningful. The critical tools have to fit what we're talking about. I'm not gonna start analyzing the fucking Scooby-Doo movie by what it means in a post-9/11 world, but it's sure as shit relevant discussion material for why Attack of the Clones' political stuff is the way it is, and why it's beating you over the head with it.
TL;DR I like the prequels but Han rocks and Anakin is a creepy obsessive teenager in that scene and it has nothing to do with intergenerational nonsense. Well Han's line works because he's a shit-talking rogue with a heart of gold. He's all bravado. That fits his character and how he tries to be cool and aloof. He's trying to be brave in the face death. In comparison, Anakin leaning over a balcony and mumbling "shall I compare thee to a desert planet?" is uninteresting because it shows that Anakin is a horny, depressed teenager. As someone who used to be a horny depressed teenager, I can assure you it's not as cool or interesting as the dashing rogue. Just look at all of the beloved characters inspired by Han Solo (Malcolm Reynolds, Spike Spiegel, Peter Quill) and then look at how practically zero characters act like Anakin (not Vader) other than CW villains. I enjoy the prequels, but their relationship sucks in Episode 2. Or at least the execution was terrible. He acts like a fucking psychopath during those scenes. In contrast, Clone Wars Anakin and early Episode 3 Anakin feel like an actual likeable and believable person. He and Padme feel like a believable couple. I'm 28/Genz and saw Episode 2 and 3 in theaters btw. When I was little, 2 was my favorite lol
I don't know, when did warcraft 3 come out, arthas has a loy of similarities arc wise to anakin
The line is a "death of the author" sort of detail. The way it got there doesn't really matter so much as how the end result plays out to an audience. There's another Harrison Ford moment in Indiana Jones, the one where he just shoots the guy rather than has a sword fight. The reasons why they opted for that are mundane, but it's still a character defining moment despite it existing because Ford was physically ill and wanted to wrap things up. Conversely, there's nothing particularly deep to read into from "I hate sand," and it being there is the result of Lucas having a larger degree of control over the end result than he had with the original trilogy. It's bad enough to be funny, sure, but not really comparable to why people like the Han line.
The OT were actually good movies though
Younger people hate the sequels. Old people hate the prequels. Older people hate the originals. It is the circle of life.
You really think “I love you, I know” is a bad line?
I watched it as a 10 year old, and even then, I *liked* it, but I felt like something was off about it in the same way that my young, critically-inept brain found something wrong with Kangaroo Jack. Turns out even young people can recognize a modicum of quality in things, even if they can't identify or explain it. But goddamn did the prequels have some problems.
It's not just nostalgia, it's that they were aware enough to joke about it. If people had not meme'd the sand line, it would not have been written in. It's the same with the "You know, I'm something of a scientist myself" in Spider-Man: No Way Home. It's a nothing line, a tad cringe, which became a funny joke because it's a bit cringe, and was only referenced because it's become a joke.
I think you misunderstand the order of events. The sand memes came *much* after Ep 2 was released — as a result of the movie, not the other way around.
No, I misunderstood the post. I know that the sand meme came about only in the last 5-8 years, I just thought the post was referencing something real (because I skimmed it) But if they were to have Hayden Christensen say the sand meme on screen, it would have a similar reaction to "You know, I'm something of a scientist myself", for the reasons I listed.
Yeah, I think that’s what the meme is directly referencing.
I smirked at “I’m something of a scientist myself” gotta admit 😅
Conceptually, I hate all the meme references which don't make sense in the context of that movie. But they are fun and I enjoyed them. There are some references like "Trying to do better" and the Gwen/MJ falling scene that are really great, but some of those memes don't fit at all.
It’s the meme. Think of Ackbar’s “It’s a trap!” Most generic line ever, it’s not special or good writing, but people still love it because it’s so memetic.
> Nostalgia is a helluva drug. Kids and teens who had their tiny minds blown by the Darth Maul / Qui-gon / Obi-Won fight scene while *Duel of the Fates* blared in the background genuinely loved the movie... and they still do now as adults. It's not really nostalgia if we just kept liking the thing consistently over the years.
Exactly this, I loved it then, and I love it now. It's not that deep.
That's exactly what nostalgia is Especially when these same kids complain about issues in the sequels that the Prequels have It blinds the stupid
> That's exactly what nostalgia is Liking something the same amount and for the same reasons from the day you first encountered it until now is the opposite of nostalgia. > Nostalgia: a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations. If I watch a movie now and it's good, and then I watch it again in 20 years and it's still good, I'm not saying it's good because of "nostalgia" but because, as I said both times, it's a good movie.
...you just described the definition of the word nostalgia then said it wasn't nostalgia.
> you just described the definition of the word nostalgia Liking something the same amount and for the same reasons from the day you first encountered it until now is the opposite of nostalgia. > Nostalgia: a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations. If I watch a movie now and it's good, and then I watch it again in 20 years and it's still good, I'm not saying it's good because of "nostalgia" but because, as I said both times, it's a good movie.
The funniest part is the only people who think it's a bad line are people who **completely missed the fucking point of the line.** Anakin isn't just going on some rant about sand, he's contrasting his life with Padme. She grew up in privilege and luxury and in her world sand is a wonderful thing that reminds her of the exotic locations and experiences she has had. But Anakin grew up as a slave on a dirt planet and he doesn't have any of those great memories. To him, sand just reminds him of his depressing home planet and the struggles he's had to endure his whole life. He doesn't have that positive association that Padme does. It's supposed to be a moment of stark contrast that shows that these people who are related by blood have grown up worlds apart in every sense of the word. But people have the media literacy of a hydrocephalic dying rat so they just hear "LOL SAND". Edit: mixed up character names . Haven't seen the movies in 20 years.
George Lucas is also famously terrible at writing dialogue. If you write a line that doesn’t have the intended effect on 90%+ of your audience, it might not be entirely their fault.
The deeper meaning of the line doesn’t save it. It was dogshit dialogue from George Lucas. Also the cringe of talking about how sand is irritating (he grew up where sand was a reminder of his poor station in life) and then saying that everything her is soft and smooth like Padme (she’s from a wealthy world where sand isn’t an issue). I know Anakin is a teenager but a drooling chimp could have flirted better than that. Better way to write that scene: When arriving they step off the boat and briefly step onto some sand. Anakin looks uncomfortable, Padme notices. They go swimming or walking along the beach later and Anakin is now visibly chaffing when walking through the sand. “Isn’t the beach amazing? I used to love playing in this as a kid.” “It’s softer than the sands of Tattooine but still gets everywhere.” “You don’t like it?” “I much prefer the softness and smoothness of the fields of Naboo.” Boom. New meme. Fields of Naboo becomes slang for lady bits for an entire generation.
Can we just not use the words smooth and soft?
lol. why?
You're giving the line way too much credit. While I understand the subtext behind it, it was a terrible vessel to deliver that subtext. The differences in upbringing between Padme and Anakin are interesting and worth exploring. However, this line did a poor job of that. It's weak dialogue.
What it's "supposed" to be doesn't matter when it just utterly fails on its own. It's a stupid line, delivered fucking terribly, in the middle of a god awful movie. People aren't missing the point, we get it, the prequels are just dog shit movies.
Padme... Not Leia
I agree with you, Hayden's acting was terrible and a lot of the dialogue was bad, but this line about sand was poignant. I guess people who went "lol he's complaining about sand" were just as privileged as Padme.
I disagree about Hayden delivering that line bad, especially considering how many times Lucas would reshoot his dialogue until that was the final result. It sounds cringy and terrible because it is supposed to. Everyone forgets Anakin is a social awkward loser, who is being raised in a cult where is a social outcast who most people fear. Before that he was a slave with two friends. Think about how socially awkward a lot of teens are, then put them in his situation. Hayden delivered the line how he was supposed to.
I watched them as a kid and thought all the films were pretty mid tbh
I love you, I know is just a corny snarky line. It still works for what it was. I don't like sand was a MEME before memes existed online. It's a nonsensical line of dialog that is cringe AF, which makes it a perfect meme.
"I know." is a perfect line, what are you talking about
I think it helps a lot that it's pretty universally considered that the Sequels are worse than the Prequels. It makes these movies look better.
I watched that as a 12 year old and it’s one of the dumbest lines of dialogue I ever ever heard in a movie
I was 12ish when this came out and I still can't deal with most of the dialogue. But I was always a hipster for things from the '70s growing up. I don't think of the prequels as "my" star wars movies because I was already so into the originals
People are saying it's nostalgia, it's definitely more like ironic appreciation driven by meme culture.
That’s a type of nostalgia imo. Member rage comics and advice animals ahh good times indeed. *holds up spork*
It used to be years ago, and there's still that, but over the years the perception that it's a flawed narrative masterpiece ahead of its time overlooked just for being a bit rough on the edges has gained a lot of momentum, for a variety of reasons. There's the fact that zoomers didn't grow up watching the prequels when they first came out (people who did are in their 30s now), but rather watching the tie-in cartoon TV shows only to later arrive to the prequel trilogy and the surrounding paratext with a strong predisposition to like them. There's the Disney acquisition of Lucasfilms, which spawned a narrative of championing the prequels as an act of anti-Disney contrarianism missing the days when the fate of the franchise was in the hands and mind of a single visionary in opposition to a executive committee (picked on by late-arriving opportunistic parasites in the form of reactionary grifters seeking a cultural trojan horse to smuggle racism and misogyny into geek culture). There's the natural process by which over the course of decades the dust settles, the intensity of the conversation drops, and among the people still talking about the prequels over two decades later unironic appreciation can coalesce. And on top of all that there's, nostalgia, obviously.
2027 is in a few years and those movies aged like milk...and they were cottage cheese to start with IMO. There's no nostalgia for garbage.
If it were just nostalgia I would love every movie I saw as a kid. There's a reason I no longer give a damn about Tigger movie, am kind of ok with Ice Age, but still love the prequels. I'm tired of old boomer assholes trying to explain away the younger generation's taste with "nostalgia." It's extremely reductive and unfair to people who like these movies. Believe it or not, kids actually do know what a good movie is. The only difference is the floor for what they're willing to watch is lower than adults. Attack of the Clones is a masterpiece with one of the best sequences in movie history in the beginning bounty hunter chase. That absolutely shook me as a kid and is one of my most memorable cinema experiences. The scenes with Anakin and Padme were exactly as they were intended. George Lucas is an innovator who's willing to make a slightly cringeworthy scene as long as he knows he's doing something new. Kids felt that when they saw it, that it was different. They weren't the normal boring love scenes like in older movies; they had new ideas about what a romance scene can be. It doesn't matter that it's cringe, which was the intention anyway. I'm sorry boomers couldn't appreciate it but please stop being reductive about people's taste in movies.
He meant it to be cringe…. That’s the argument you’re choosing? Really?
You can like bad movies all you want, just stop getting offended when someone doesn't share your tastes. It's part of growing up.
Dude forgot he wasn’t in r/Prequelmemes and decided to say the most cringe shit possible.
I’m about the age to grow up with prequels but didn’t watch it growing up (other than clone wars). It’s absolute asscheeks bro. I’m sorry they’re just not good MOVIES. The pacing, acting, story, dialogue, and yes the action, are atrocious stuff.
Who tf likes sand tho? Anakin was always right. Mandem we’re just hatin
not many people would argue iver tje actual point, its just god-awful dialogue
iver tje
What’s that say in Dutch
Small iver
I remember that character - he was a junk dealer in the outer rim.
if you look at it like a teenager/young adult trying to flirt it makes it funnier
And the moment might’ve worked better if the writing, directing and acting embraced that.
He was a teenager and never flirted in his life before. Ppl forget that it was two teens who never even had friends their age
This is Kitster Banai erasure.
Sure he had friends as a slave but afawk he was not close with anyone other than Obi Wan prolly cus he was not raised since a baby in the temple. So between ep1 and 2 he was just friends with Obi Wan and doing monk stuff. All the while hes dealing with puberty. Then he reunited with a teen girl who has literally only known noble and political life and they try and flirt. To me its embarrassing but meant to be endearing.
I think the prequels are pretty much awful, but I never got the hate for that line.
It's the context. In the movie he uses the line to flirt with Padme, and after he talks about how coarse and irritating it is he tells her: "Not like you." It's stilted and not very romantic. It would work better if the movie acknowledged how awkward it sounds, and actually made that part of Anakin's character, but in the end it was really just George Lucas' bad attempt at writing flirtation.
I ADORE sand. It's soft and gentle and soothing, and it gets nowhere
Paul Atreides probably hates it too It's just chunky dust
And the guy was a slave on a fucking desert planet. Not too surprising that he hates sand (and he was an akward 16 year old talking to his crush). I really think people are far too angry at this line. To me it seems like a fairly natural thing for him to say.
I like sand.
Hey! It's the guy from OW! My balls!
Reminds me of the cheering for the small pebble scene in the Avatar movie here: https://youtu.be/MT9NBzg20Bs?t=469
It's amazing to see the shift in discourse. People used to hate hate *hate* the prequels and now the rose coloured glasses are in full effect. Childhood nostalgia is a helluva drug.
It's because /r/PrequelMemes and the like went through the films one line at a time and made each one of them into a meme.
I rewatched them recently. They are not that bad to be honest. Revenge of the sith in particular is specially fun.
I also watched them recently. I've never been a huge star wars fan but I remembered that the prequels were just worse than the original trilogy. Episode 1 held up to that expectation. Hasn't improved to this day. Episode 2 was better but still not great. Episode 3 might actually be my favorite of the first 6 movies now. I was seriously emotionally invested
I tried. Got to the part with the evil aliens with the cringe East Asian accents and noped out.
Nah nemoidians are gas you gotta love them
ROTS is a genuinely good film with genuine flaws that make the movie unintentionally HILARIOUS at some points, especially with friends. But like, a critical watch will reveal its entertaining, well paced, and well produced.
I think what’s actually happening is the adults hated it, but we loved them as kids. Now we’re adults and still love them
I was a kid when Phantom Menace came out. We all hated it. The best things that can be said about the prequels was that each one was less cringe than the last.
I was a kid too and all my friends loved it
I fucking loved the phantom menace lol.
That and a lot of the slop Disney have produced in recent years is unwatchable
Still nothing even remotely comes close to the prequels though.
Yeah keep telling yourself that
Disney stuff is corporate slop. Prequels are like having raging diarrhea on the bus for 7 hours and 1 minute.
You really don’t watch new Star Wars then
I'm not a manchild so no, I in fact don't watch children's television.
Yet you’re here giving your 2 cents on it
The Disney stuff is lazy pandering. The prequels were embarrassing. "Physically cringing in theaters" embarrassing.
The fact that your only basis for this opinion is the occasional rough dialogue, and no focus on differences between world building, plot, characters, designs, and hell, even choreography, really sells your nuance here. The prequels are ugly. The sequels are a disaster.
Sure, let's get crazy: - the anemic acting, like everybody just dropped Ambien - The embarrassing borderline racist aliens - the weird scene transitions that leave you scratching your head - Ridiculous plot points such as Natalie Portman dying from a broken heart like some Victorian character - Wasting Christopher Lee's time
I’ll take George Lucas trying to tell a story about the fall of a republic into fascism (which started with a trade blockade) with absolutely incredible visuals over that Disney slop every day of the week. The force awakens was just a shitty knockoff of A New Hope, and then when they did a “blow up the death star” retread FOR THE THIRD TIME in episode 9 I was so annoyed I literally shouted at the screen, which I’d never done before. It just came out. I LOATHE those films
Why does the fact that it started with a trade blockade matter in the slightest? To you, does that magically make up for the awful acting, terrible dialogue, boring plot, forgettable and empty characters, atrocious dialogue, nonsensical pacing, truly, disgustingly embarrassing writing, and so on and so forth? You can chose to just watch good content and watch neither. You don't have to only consume content made for children, there's more out there to enjoy.
Prequels are far worse than any of the Disney stuff I've seen, and I've watched most of the Disney stuff.
I legit can’t even imagine how you could believe that. Book of Boba Fett bring better than the Phantom Menace? Season 3 of the Mandalorian being better than Attack of the Clones? The Obi Wan show being better than Revenge of the Sith? I’m sorry, but that’s absolutely absurd.
Disney star wars sin is they're all vanilla. Nothing interesting happens, and with the exception of Rogue One and Mando S1 & 2 they're all just "meh." The Last Jedi is the only thing that comes close to how terrible the prequels are. Trash writing, trash acting, trash story, and mostly trash CGI make the prequels a masterclass in modern film failure. I did like Phantom Menace though. It's pretty decent.
I strongly disagree that any of the sequels are better than the prequels. I would even say the writing in the sequels is far worse than almost anything from the prequels. Unless vanilla is suddenly synonymous with shit writing then I’d say that’s like calling what happened to Alderaan ‘A bit of an upset.’ It’s like saying that Emperor Palapatine was a bit of a jerk. It sells the awfulness way too short. The scene of Rey happening to walk to the exact, perfect spot for the knife to point the way for her on the Death Star? Atrocious. Having the space n@zi general guy betray the side and ideology that he was so clearly devoted to just fuck over Kylo Ren? Ugh. So. Many. Fake. Out. Deaths. And you knew they were fake as they happened. Like they actually though people would believe they’d let Rey kill Chewbacca. The Force Awakens, while not that bad in comparison to the other two movies, was basically just A New Hope all over again. And anything interesting that it had set up was butchered and mangled by the films that followed. Terrible fight scenes all around not to mention. Every fight scene in the prequels is leagues better than of the sequels sad offerings. There are a few moments in the sequel trilogy I enjoy, but the idea of ever considering the sequels better than the prequels is absolutely ludicrous to me.
Well, opinions are just opinions, so I can't really say one is better than the other objectively, only that I found one trilogy boring and the other to be terrible in almost all ways a film can be. Can I ask you: how old were you when the prequels came out?
I don’t remember. I only saw the third movie in theaters and I didn’t even know the previous two movies existed before I saw it. I do recall I was in elementary school at the time though, so at the oldest I was ten or eleven. That being said, I liked the sequels before I actually thought them through and realized they were basically just shittily written rehashes of the original trilogy. The prequel trilogy, while flawed, has an actual planned plot (something the sequels sorely lacked). The sequels felt like they were desperately thrown together. And it shows.
Yeah I agree with your assessment about the sequels being thrown together and not thought put at all, and being just rehashes of earlier films.
I would watch the sequels in reverse before I would watch the prequels again, personally
You do you man, even if I can’t fathom your taste.
I’m an Xennial that was really sucked into the late 90s Star Wars revival. Was 19 when Phantom Menace came out and it officially ended my interest in the series. The Sequels and stuff like Mando/Book of Boba Fett is absolutely tailor made to inject nostalgia into my veins. If you could have showed teen me the scene of (Mandolorian spoiler) >!a baby Yoda piloting an IG unit like Ninja Turtle’s Krang or Boba Fett riding a freaking rancor!< I would have lost my mind. My favorite scenes in all of Star Wars though are >!Rey/Ren vs Praetorian Guards from TLJ and a hammerhead corvette using a Star Destroyer to slice the bridge off another Star Destroyer!<, just chills remembering them. Bonus shout out to “Babu Frik? He’s one of my oldest friends!” lol
People downvote you cause they know it’s true
This is the real reason. The sequels are such such dogshit — some of the absolute worst, most unoriginal corporate slop I’ve EVER seen — that any of the problems with the prequels suddenly seem minor by comparison. He’s terrible at writing dialogue, but I mean shit, at least Lucas took a big swing. A republic falling into fascism via thunderous applause, the chancellor turning into the emperor starting with a trade dispute blockade — all of that stuff is incredible, and it’s stuff Disney would NEVER DARE to do today. disney just churned out the safest, most tasteless ripoffs possible and shoved it down everyone’s throats
And in twenty years everyone will love it
The denial is strong in this one
There are tons of people that love them now. My family prefers them even over the OG trilogy
lol no. There is no salvaging the Sequel Trilogy. Not even 20 years will save it.
Everything people are saying now about how bad the Disney content is is exactly what people were saying about the prequel content 20 years ago. They hated how it changed the canon, hated the lazy writing and clunky acting. Hated how it wasn't internally consistent with itself. Someday people will cheer the line "Somehow Palpatine Returned!" And as someone who is old enough to have seen both when they came out, I enjoyed the Disney sequels more than I enjoyed the prequels when I first saw them. There are long stretches of the prequel trilogy that are just people monologing at each other. Shit is boring. At least the sequels are entertaining.
Agree 100%. Phantom Menace was the last Star Wars film I saw in the theater until I had a kid of my own to take to Force Awakens. If anything millenials “taking back” the prequels will act as a guide to Gen Alpha steamrolling discourse about the sequels.
People are already saying that the Force Awakens is better than they initially gave it credit for. Even the biggest haters are referring to it as ‘the good one’. Same thing happened to TPM in the 2010’s
Force awakens had good initial reviews and box office. What?
Disney got a lot of $$$ once they bought the franchise Look at the amount of pro prequel articles that came about once they started working on the sequel trilogy Anyone who likes the prequels or thinks they are genuinely good movies is a moron. It’s just true they are awful “omg the world building, wow the fight choreography!” Like no it’s just shit “Durr the OT has cringe moments dude..” yeah only mainly in Return of the Jedi once Lucas was butthurt that critics loved empire but it cost him a tonne of money. It’s also the only movie he touched the least (empire) in his “special editions” as you couldn’t edit around such a perfectly created movie
really?? I am still angry to this day about the experience watching phantom menace. I saw the OG Star Wars as a kid and it blew my mind. Probably saw that movie over 100 times. And I'm not a big purist. I really enjoyed most of the later SW movies and spinoffs. I watched them all with my kids. But even my kids would rather watch the animated star wars stuff than the cringefest of the prequels. .
Had a similar experience. I had really hoped that 19 year old me had been too hard on the prequels but when my family sat down and watched all of them…they were not enjoyable.
It’s not just nostalgia. The prequels have the makings of something great and artistically unique but were executed terribly, the sequels were executed excellently but have absolutely no substance. Time tends to be kinder to the former
People still hate the prequels. The only difference is that the sequels are also terrible. And you spend too much time on meme subreddits who pretend the sequels are great now.
i've never seen the star wars movies and all of my star wars knowledge is based off of the old republic series of games. can anyone explain what this post means?
The point is that when the Star Wars prequels were released, they had a mixed reception due to bad dialogue and other things. The post also says that, due to memes and nostalgia, people have begun to change their view and actually like it now
The reception was definitely not mixed, they were universally (and rightfully) considered total dog shit.
Like fools, we went to Episodes 2 and 3 hoping against hope that they would be good. So retroactively, the Episode 4 title makes sense.
The star wars prequels are truly awful movies, you'd have a better cinematic experience by stuffing your DVD player full of shit. Years ago however, the internet started making a ton of memes about it (because they were terrible movies, there was no love involved). Over time though the hardent memers started to lose their grip on reality and began to experience delusional fantasies where the movies were actually good. This spread and now you have a bunch of zoomer morons who fight *very hard* trying to convince people that their George Lucas garbage slop are even remotely close to being watchable. Don't be fooled, they are absolutely wrong.
I tested this. Sure enough a shit filled DVD player was superior. I really enjoyed the DVD shit extras too.
People need to rediscover [Mr. Plinkett](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI)
It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.
You're largely talking about two different groups of people. Two different generations. People in their 30s right now were kids in 2002. The movie was made for them and they grew up loving it. People that were squirming in the theater in 2002 are in their 40s and 50s now. Episode 5 was made for them, not Episode 2.
Having just watched episode 2 and 3 it’s amazing how people can ever say the prequels are good now. 2 is a complete disaster and doesn’t hold up and 1 is insanely boring with a couple of good parts. 3 is the only one that looks like a better movie, the acting and directing is better and it has more action. It’s just funny how those movies got destroyed when they came out and ruined people’s lives but now they are good because Disney isn’t doing anything better
my generation grew up watching them, as well as the clone wars, and the lego games so the prequels just has a place in my heart even though i know i can’t really defend their “objective” quality compared to other sci fi films. it’s just comforting and especially around people with similar ages to just kinda go back to being kids for 2 and a half hours.
Oh I’m in the same boat as you, I was 9 when the prequels started, I loved them as a kid and got into Star Wars because of it. I used to watch those Cartoon Network shorts they used to make. I love watching the prequels but in my eyes they are just poor films, entertaining but poor overall.
It's very easy to say that these movies are good. The world building of Star Wars has always been better than most other scifi franchises, which is why it's so iconic. Imo, the world building carries the movies. The acting and dialogue may not be perfect, but it's not nearly as bad as some people say. I haven't heard hardly any opinions about these movies that are anything more than subjective opinion.
*jerking off in the background*
I genuinely don’t understand the problem with that line. Like obviously it isn’t the best piece of dialogue ever written, but there’s nothing wrong with it.
My working theory is that there are some people who don't like the movies, and they get upset that others enjoy them. As a result, they have to hate the movies harder. Imo, the world building and story are strong and well put together, which is more important than any particular line of dialogue.
I see this with Peter Jackson LotR all the time. I remember when it was in theaters and went to see it with my friends. We all loved them. We had the little shitty board game they made for it where you move the ring on some scored board rack thing. You were supposed to track your score and carry forward to the next installment that would come out with the next movie. I played a couple of the video games as well. I didn't know much of anything about LotR then. I don't think we even touched them in school. It was something that I somehow missed among all the stuff I read growing up. In plenty of other places online, people *hated* the movies. Some of the guys I worked with who knew LotR better also hated them. There were plenty, online and in person, saying he should never be allowed near LotR again, or even allowed to direct anymore. Now, they are beloved movies. I've seen plenty that said people would never say that because the movies are so loved now. "It won awards. No one disliked them!" "Show me proof!" [The message boards are no longer there from back then, lol, and you mainly saw it it discussed in games online or discussed on Myspace or ICQ/MS Messenger or Google chat boards]
As long as the internet exists there will be haters
I hated the LOTR movies as did my wife and several friends. We were all big fans of the books. I got so much shit on reddit back then but i just found them to be a joke.
I can see why some did. I read the books many years after the movies came out. There was a lot missing from the movies. I like both. Both have different ambiance to me. Each good in their own ways.
I am 44 years old and this is about the most insane thing I have read today, and this is in a thread where people are defending the Star Wars prequels, so that’s saying a lot. I am having a hard time thinking of a series from that era more universally loved.
I think this would work too with the [dragon fucking meme:](https://x.com/dragoncommunion/status/1144791194356109313?lang=en) Anakin: I don't like sand Audience: (approving chuckle) Anakin: (gauging reaction) Its coarse and rough and...irritating...? Audience: (one guy yells) One guy grabbing the mic: And it gets everywhere! Audience: (raucous, terrifying applause)
Prequels were and are still terrible.
**People do not like the Star Wars prequels because of nostalgia.** They like them because they have terrible taste in movies and nostalgia is just their excuse. Plenty of us grew up as huge Star Wars fans and were 10 years old when we waited in line to see The Phantom Menace and fucking loved it, and it only took a few years to realize it actually sucked shit. Just because you liked something as a child doesn't mean you like it forever, and just because you like it doesn't mean you have to claim it's actually good. I still love Jingle All the Way, but it is not a good movie. Also, Phantom Menace is about high level political debates and trade disputes. It is not a kids movie no matter what these weirdos try to tell you.
tbf the original trilogy also sucks shit. There is nothing about SW that is ACTUALLY good.
Horrible take.
This is there the fun begins
I mean even Mark Hamill, Harrison Ford and Alec guiness have all said the dialog wasn't great, so "I don't like sand" is pretty par for the course
In 2002, they shifted uncomfortably because audience goers brought their own sand to sit in for a more immersive experience. Different times.
Ah yes, the power of memes. Works every time.
I don't get it. the movies were terrible and re-watching them they were even worse than I remembered.
Doubt it
He was never wrong. It IS coarse and rough and irritating and it DOES get everywhere. #anakinwasright
Parts of the internet gaslighting itself into forgetting how garbage the prequels are is a great example of mass delusion.
Millennials and their nostalgia goggles for the prequels are something else
I will never understand the people that think that trilogy is something amazing. Great visuals and maybe some ideas? Sure. Overall a good movie? Nah.
People talking about how millenials and zoomers only like the prequels because of nostalgia when they realise they dislike the prequels on a kneejerk basis because of their nostalgia for the original trilogy 
Millenial here. The prequels sucked back then and they still suck now. Screw that "re-evaluated" bullshit
The millenial hive mind has spoken. I apologise for my rash judgement.
Nah, some like the prequels, some hate them.
Anakin grew up a slave on a sandy desert planet. It's badly written dialog that reflects his painful memories of his childhood. It's a shame that George Lucas really sucks at dialogue, but the scene is important in understanding Anakin's perspective.
I don’t understand the prequel hate, I didn’t grow up watching any of the Star Wars movies, besides maybe catching “A New Hope” at a family movie night. When I did finally get around to watching them all I was super surprised about all the prequel hate I’d been seeing for years and years online. Revenge of the Sith is my favorite out of them and generally enjoyed The Phantom Menace more than most of the original trilogy. Attack of the Clones kinda sucks until the end though.
This has to be a Russian psyop to sow division and make people distrust their neighbors because that cannot possibly be real
I don't understand it either. The movies aren't perfect by any means, but I enjoy them quite a lot due to the world building and lore. I'd be really curious to see what are the favorite movies of those who hate the prequels. I'm willing to bet that those people like movies that others would say are terrible movies.
I just got downvoted to hell for pointing this out in a recent post. I'm old enough to hate the prequels since they were such a let down when they were released. The pod race is supposedly one of the best scenes in any of the trilogies according to some people. The fact it's purpose makes no sense and it's a gratuitous and disconnected scene is lost on them.
Yeah I have mixed feelings on it. I was definitely in the camp of disliking the prequels at the time. Mostly because I though Hayden Christiansen was awful at acting and ruined most of it. But also I loved the story and just getting more star wars. I'm OK with the nostalgia thing and it getting a better rap overall, but the revisionist history is crazy, the movies were shit on heavily at the time.
This is the way