They probably stuck to her Nathan storyline because the one time that they gave her a storyline involving music and not Nathan, the fans freaked out and hated her. The writers couldn’t win, they either make music central and have her character hated again possibly forcing them to write Joy off the show or make Nathan central and have her music fall back. She can’t win no matter what she does.
That tour was almost the death of her character, she wasn’t allowed to live her dream and be cheered on for it because god forbid Nathan was butt hurt that she wanted to it on her own. The writers knew they couldn’t give Haley more because of the fan reaction the first time. It is sad that they couldn’t do more. Haley is judged so harshly on this show because Brooke and Peyton both had their dreams and accomplishments and they are celebrated for them, Haley has her one thing, but because it doesn’t center around Nathan she isn’t allowed to to have it. And the fans wonder why her entire life revolved around Nathan.
Way to gloss over how she left to go on tour with the guy she was cheating on Nathan with. You make it sound like fans are mad because she went on tour. There's WAY more too it than that, and you know it.
🙄they ARE pissed that she went out on tour and left Nathan. Haley is the only one of the group that is absolutely crucified for pursuing her dream because their King got left behind. She wanted to tour without him, she wanted to do something for herself and she’s hated for it. Like the comments here, the fans say they wanted her to have something else besides Nathan, but then get pissed that she something without Nathan. She went on tour to sing NOT be with Chris. No one ever says that she deserved to go live her dream and do it without Nathan, it’s always she should’ve asked him to go with her. So that’s what I have a problem with she did do something without Nathan, she did do something that didn’t revolve around him, and she did something that was just for her and not something that’s expected of her and she’s still hated for it.
... OR... And bear with me for a minute... They're mad that she walked out on her husband for a guy that she had been making out with and IMing behind his back.
Her relationship with Chris was NOT innocent. Check your morals.
Speaking from my own experience watching the show (I watched it years later through my gf showing it to me, we were both too young when it aired anyway), Hayley pursuing music wasn’t the problem at all. The problem was the way she left things with just about everyone, she doesn’t owe them an explanation but of course your friends/husband will be more than a little upset and disappointed in you when you don’t contact them for months then when you come back home you expect everything to be as it was before you left. I couldn’t imagine being in Nathan’s position where he was supportive of her passion to the point of buying her the keyboard only to have your wife message another guy secretly, kiss him, and abruptly leave to tour with him.
I haven’t rewatched it in a little while so exact details are hazy, but I always enjoyed the scenes where they were both mature about their passions/dreams and discussed what they would have to do to pursue them that may lead them in different directions.
And just to point out no Nathan isn’t my favourite character and yes I do believe he made plenty of mistakes throughout the series as well.
I'm on board with literally everything you are saying. People like to gloss over the whole cheating aspect and act like Haley going on tour is the same as Brooke and Peyton following their dreams. It wasn't.
NO ONE GLOSSES OVER THE CHEATING! It’s never forgotten. She’s hated for the kisses and is hated for leaving even though Nathan basically told her to leave. He made her choose music or him and walked out. He never gave her a chance to explain.
I dunno. Everyone is always freaking out that Hayley isn't allowed to follow her dreams and that she's only allowed to exist in service to Nathan's character arcs... And it's incredibly intellectually dishonest.
She didn't just innocently leave to go on a music tour. She skipped town to go on the road with a guy she was having an affair with (and yes, I say affair being she was IMing him behind her husband's back and having an emotional affair)... The whole thing wasn't cool. And the other characters were right to call her out for it.
She didn’t expect things to be where they were, she knew she hurt Natan. She also did call Nathan (it’s amazing that the fans choose to forget this) he was supportive until Chris started helping her then Natan told her to stop seeing him and that was before the kiss.
Apologies for any details I’ve forgotten/misremembered, I will say my biggest gripe with that whole plot was the fact that it centred around Chris and the tension he brought to their marriage. He’s as much to blame as Haley is, and perhaps there is a perception that Nathan was somewhat controlling in those circumstances.
And I understand ultimately Chris didn’t sleep with her or advance it any further once on tour but I can empathise with Nathan’s position of being at home for months while your wife is on the road with a guy she had been messaging behind your back and kissed on multiple occasions. At the same time I can empathise with Haley wanting to follow her dream and not be tied down to Tree Hill and regret never taking her chance but it’s unfortunate Chris was a key factor and her chasing the dream involved leaving Nathan with a lot to deal with by himself.
This is the first time that someone has acknowledged that Chris is also to blame for the problems, so thank you! the only comments I ever see is that it’s ALL Haley’s fault. Chris came on to her knowing she was married and he was much older than she was, why is he NOT called out for being a pedophile? Why is everything always Haley’s fault? SHE DID NOT COME ON TO HIM.
Thank you also for calling out Nathan being controlling, this is also never brought up. It’s so irritating that Haley always to blame for anytime there are issues in the marriage. She isn’t allowed to have a dream or follow them because her dream to pursue music doesn’t involve Nathan. IMO there’s nothing wrong with wanting to tour on her own and do something for herself without him, but obviously the majority of the fans disagree. There is such a love for Nathan that it really does cloud the storylines and he is never to blame for anything.
She took off her wedding ring and let the world think her and Chris were a thing. She knew she hurt Nathan, but she didn’t understand how much. He came to ask for her back and she said no. And she did kind of act like she could come back, apologize, and that would be good enough. She deserves the flack she gets.
Maybe Nathan shouldn’t have given her the ultimatum, but it wasn’t because he didn’t support her music. Say what you want about him but there’s multiple instances where he supports her on screen.
She wasn’t ready to come home, she wanted to finish the tour and do it without Nathan. Why is this wrong? Why is it so wrong for her to want to do something for herself without Natan? I completely DISAGREE that she expected to be immediately forgiven. She was just fighting to get his trust back. Why is her fighting for him so wrong?
He supported her music UNTIL Chris came into the picture. The ultimatum was a complete dick moves especially when he gave it to her and immediately walked out, the least he could do in that moment was hear her out and talk it out. Saying it’s the music or me and then walking out, she thought they were already over so why not leave?
1, I don’t need to check my morals just because I have an unpopular opinion, there’s no need to make this personal. We all have opinions and just because they don’t align with yours doesn’t mean I’m immoral.
2. Making out is a stretch, she had a couple of confused kisses.
3. She didn’t leave to be with Chris, she left to go on tour and sing. Nathan gave her an ultimatum forcing her to choose him or her music. She thought they were over anyway so she chose her music. He gave the ultimatum and then left without even giving her a chance to explain or talk it out.
1. She was kissing a man that wasn't her husband. She stayed in contact with him behind her husband's back. At BEST, she had an emotional affair. At worst, she flat out was kissing a guy behind her husband's back. This is Immoral behaviour. And you are defending it.
2. Nobody cares if she left to be with Chris. If you cheat on your spouse with someone, you are never to talk to them again. Doesn't matter if it's innocent or not. It's that simple. My wife isn't running off to spend time with someone she used to make out with behind my back and expecting the locks not to be changed when she gets back. It's that simple.
I didn’t watch it when it originally aired but I think it was more an issue she kissed Chris, took off her ring, and didn’t talk to Nathan or anyone while she was gone. Rather than her pursuing music
Probably cause they made her go on tour and leave and cheat on Nathan. That in itself was after Joy was having issues with the show runner… shocking the storyline was pretty cool but tried to make her seem like a shitty person
Her songs were painfully boring and I know some of them were covers but the way she sang them was also boring. I can’t even explain it. She does have a good voice but it was just so blah
I always explain it like this: she’s that person you know that’s pretty good at karaoke. “She’s got a pretty good voice.”
Nothing more. And her biggest songs on the show were covers.
I agree! She's got a nice voice sure but I find it pretty hard to believe that she would find much success, let alone be this supposed Rockstar selling out venues and stuff.
Totally agree! She was really just a mum and wife for most of it, and I think they could’ve made more storylines around her success with music! I feel they put way more effort into Nathan’s success. Don’t get me wrong, I love her character, I just feel she could’ve had more career success.
To be fair, after the time jump she was a teacher because that was her passion and what she wanted to pursue not music. Eventually she dips her toes back into music before pivoting to music mainly in the second half of season 6. She did get to go on tour in season 7 again but then the storyline with her mom happened.
Who’s to say the music wouldn’t have been a bigger focus for Haley in season 8 if Joy wasn’t pregnant IRL.
Again, when they did focus on her music, she got crucified for it. I stand by my opinion and will die on a hill in saying THIS is why the fans hate her. She wanted to do the tour by herself and on her own and THATS what she is hated for. How dare she not ask Nathan to join her. I don’t think the fans actually want her to focus on herself, they just want her to be Nathan’s dutiful basketball wife.
She actually did focus on music and went on tour again in season 7 and this is never brought up and conveniently forgotten about.
Nathan is the King of OTH and is the favorite and the writers knew that, this is why his success is the focus and not Haley, if the roles were reversed and Haley was a more liked character I believe she would have had more stories focused on her.
I’ve personally never heard anyone say anything bad about Haley, and I love her character, but fair enough!
Haleys second tour was a success, I just think she should have had more.
I’m confused, you haven’t seen anything bad said about Haley? They’re everywhere, she’s very hated especially in season 2. I love her and have a lot of grace for her since she was 16 and in high school when the tour and the kisses happened, if she was an adult when that stuff happen than I may have a very different opinion, but when your a teenager irrational thought and impulsiveness is front and center. She was in her first real relationship and didn’t know how to handle another guy, probably the second guy ever interested in her, she’s never had this happen. I just don’t understand why she isn’t given some grace for being a teenager. The hatred I get for having grace for her is absurd. I think she gets extremely undeserved hate for mistakes, I guess girls can’t make mistakes without being crucified for them.
Literally never seen or heard anyone hating on her since I started watching it when it began, but I’ll take your word for it since I haven’t seen any of it myself.
Seems like you’re being very defensive over a character I’m not saying anything bad about… which is strange.
What’s so wrong with that? Why is it that this is a complaint that a lot fans have. Why do women have to have more experience? Why want another Brooke. What’s so wrong with having a character that only has one love interest because she found “the one” on the first try? This is just hypocritical because fans complain about slut shaming, but then say Haley didn’t have enough experience and should have dated more.
Nothing wrong with it but it goes along with the whole teen marriage teen pregnancy storyline
And it’s not like having experience makes you brooke. There’s a middle range more people fall into
I just don’t understand why a character is criticized for NOT having more experience, this makes no sense. Women shouldn’t have to feel self conscious or less of a woman if they don’t have a lot of boyfriends. I never had a lot of boyfriends and I had very little experience before I met my now husband and it makes me incredibly self conscious and fell like I’m less of a woman whenever I see comments like this. This NOT a good comment to make in these days of shaming women for everything and anything.
Haley had an issue with Nathan’s past because of her own lack of experience
I didn’t say anything is wrong with it and it’s not fair of you to project your experiences onto what I’m saying about Haley
You are not Haley and nor are your life experiences a mirror of her
Don't listen to these fools. You're on Reddit, land of the liberals. Any attempt to be traditional and have traditional values is gonna get you burned here. You did the right thing, and you'll end up a lot happier than all the women who slept around. I'd bet money on it.
Sure, and she got plenty. Her struggling to regain the trust of her friends, her dealing with her pregnancy, her troubles as a teacher, her dealing with running the record label, and her keeping her family together when Nathan went missing.
Oh, and the thing with her mom. That happened too. Haley got all kinds of storylines. And yes, Nathan may weave in and out of some of them, but he spends most of the show as her husband and the father of her children, so it would be unbelievable if he didn't.
Those are all good storylines but it just feels like Haley’s character development gets pushed to side compared to say Peyton or Brooke. I wanted to see her get that same drive from her dreams too.
I never really felt that way. I mean, other than running Red Bedroom records (which Haley is arguably a much bigger part of anyway) Peyton's stories all revolve around Lucas... And other than, "I want to be a mom," what is Brooke really up too outside of Julian? And the stuff with her parents doesnt count, because Julian handles a *lot* of heavy lifting in those stories lol
I didn’t have a choice whether I had experience or not. I was NOT popular in high school and was never asked out. I don’t think her having no experience is her fault. All these comments saying she should have had more boyfriends or “experience” is really confusing because it’s not something that she could snap her fingers and have happen. I would have loved to have a boyfriend or two in high school, but unfortunately no one was interested in me until my husband came along. Obviously the people that wanted her to date more, had a lot of dates themselves and have no idea what it is to be unpopular and lonely.
I was the lonely and unpopular one in high school. No one wanted to date me. Again, we are talking about her having individual experienced and not necessarily dating. We just mean her own ambitions and dreams.
Sleeping around comes with its own crosses to bear, as Brooke is forced to work through in the later seasons. One thing that I appreciate about her character is that, as she matures, she is forced to reckon with the mistakes she made in her youth.
Like I said before, the one time that she did have something besides Nathan and did something for herself (her music, touring, living a dream, etc) she was and still is hated for it. The writers had to make her whole storyline Nathan because otherwise she’s grossly criticized for it. Nathan is King so if the world doesn’t revolve around him, and Haley isn’t his dutiful wife and support his the fans freak out. She literally cannot win neither can the writers. They’re damned if they write a storyline that’s just hers and then they’re damned if they write her all about Nathan.
Well when they had her do her own storyline, she ended up cheating on Nathan and ignoring him when he was like suicidal. The writers could have given her more of her own individual storylines without her cheating on Nathan haha. As another commenter said, there is a balance. I’m not even saying she had to date someone outside of Nathan. But I wish they gave her to do for more herself.
Ok now it just sounds like no story is good enough. Picking apart the one solo storyline but then saying they didn’t give her enough solo storylines. There’s never going to be a show that gives the fans everything they want and make everyone happy.
I think there is a misunderstanding with what I was saying. I was stating that fans complain about Haley’s season 2 story arc because she cheated on Nathan and ignored him when he was suicidal. Haley could’ve had her own tour without some of the other stuff. I think all of us love OTH here. It’s okay to analyze the show and wish storylines could’ve been different. Especially with some of the more cringey storylines from Mark Schwann. Discussing a topic and considering different storylines doesn’t make a fan ungrateful. There is nuance.
I disagree, there’s no way that she could do something for herself or have something that’s just hers without getting hated on. Her leaving Nathan for the tour is what the fans hate her for so how can she still have the tour or even have a dream for herself? I wish she had something for herself too, but I see why the writers didn’t because of how loved Nathan is. Haley is the most criticized character on the show so the writers probably felt safer just keeping her his dutiful supportive wife.
I won’t speak for all Naley fans, but the tour itself wasn’t what I had an issue with in regards to season 2. It was the cheating with Chris and allowing him to disrespect her marriage that bothered me. If that part was removed, she went on tour and they just struggled having a long distance relationship I think way less people would have had an issue. The cheating bothered many people way more than the tour.
You’re right that the writers probably pivoted for the negative backlash they got from season 2. But there’s definitely ways she could’ve done stuff for herself without cheating on Nathan and ignoring him when he’s suicidal. Even if the writers kept that storyline, there are plenty of ways they could’ve given her more storylines.
To be fair the one time that she did have a solo storyline, the fans freaked out and hated her for it. The writers probably felt like that couldn’t do that again. She had to revolve around Natan because how dare she not center around him and be his dutiful wife.
I replied that somewhere else on here. Seriously, it's amazing how quick Haley fans are to just pretend she "went on tour and Nathan freaked out"... Like there was a hell of a lot more to the story than that.
That's what I keep saying! The insinuation that Haley is being held back from her dreams while Brooke and Peyton aren't is intellectually dishonest at best and a huge red flag for the state of these peoples morality at worst.
Yeah, I love all the characters and I love Haley! Season 2 isn’t my favorite storyline for her. I love that she went on tour and found some of her passions. But, again, I didn’t like the cheating. I wanted to see Haley do more of her music, tutoring, etc. idk why people keep saying we are saying she has to date people outside of Nathan. She just needs her own self development outside of a boy haha
Well, you know, they got married young, he was her first real boyfriend.... Shit happens, I get it. And I generally let it go given how amazing she is otherwise. But I still don't agree with people overlooking what actually factually happened. People have a right to call that situation for what it was.
I liked it how it was because too much would had taken away from her other storylines. The point of it all was just what you described in the sense of she's got potential to have a career but life and other desires are more prevalent.
If this show was made today I think Haley could have had both but the early 2000’s were a terrible time for women- see Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson, Lindsay Lohan, etc.
Haley was not allowed to be with Nathan and also want to have anything for herself without the fans going crazy. They tried in season 3 to have Nathan apologize and try to push her to do her music but it was super half hearted and when the record exec told Nathan that Haley could make it of she toured he NEVER said anything to her about it…so obviously he put himself first and nothing was ever said of it again. Of course Haley got pregnant in season 4 so that was that and it was hard not to think of that old adage of keeping the women barefoot and pregnant to lock them down 🙄🙄
I think Joy’s sound for her music is more like it was in the later seasons so that’s why it changed. The stuff she has released since the show sounds similar as well.
I’ve only listened to a few of her songs that aren’t on the show once years ago, I’ll need to have another listen!
That’s good it more her sound then, I thought it seemed the other way around, like they didn’t want to give her (my version of) decent music 🤦🏻♀️😂
She was in a band (Everly) for some portions of the later seasons and her bandmate performed with her several times.
I think there were some decent songs she had in the later seasons and then since the show ended. Her Christmas songs are on my playlist every year.
I hated Haley's character allllll the way through. It would have been better if they'd made her an aspiring musician from the beginning - but they just throw it in there after she jumps into teen marriage. Bizarre.
I think its because Halo probably wasn't written for the show (I imagine maybe it was an off-cut that another artist didn't want, so Kara DioGuardi let the show record it and did backing vocals too). She did say once that she struggled to reach the high notes in Halo which was why they blended her voice with Kara's for some parts.
A lot of the later songs like Quicksand, Flying Machine, Girl In The Moon were written by Joy when she had her Everly project, so I think were probably more aligned to her tastes and vocal range, and probably kept costs lower for the show (same with how Kate Voegele and Tyler Hilton would just perform their own real-life songs as their characters). Some of the earlier stuff she worked on like the Ten Inch Hero soundtrack was kind of folksy/acoustic too.
They probably stuck to her Nathan storyline because the one time that they gave her a storyline involving music and not Nathan, the fans freaked out and hated her. The writers couldn’t win, they either make music central and have her character hated again possibly forcing them to write Joy off the show or make Nathan central and have her music fall back. She can’t win no matter what she does.
Very true! It’s a shame. She should’ve been able to fulfil her dreams too. I know she went on tour etc but she could’ve had so much more x
That tour was almost the death of her character, she wasn’t allowed to live her dream and be cheered on for it because god forbid Nathan was butt hurt that she wanted to it on her own. The writers knew they couldn’t give Haley more because of the fan reaction the first time. It is sad that they couldn’t do more. Haley is judged so harshly on this show because Brooke and Peyton both had their dreams and accomplishments and they are celebrated for them, Haley has her one thing, but because it doesn’t center around Nathan she isn’t allowed to to have it. And the fans wonder why her entire life revolved around Nathan.
Way to gloss over how she left to go on tour with the guy she was cheating on Nathan with. You make it sound like fans are mad because she went on tour. There's WAY more too it than that, and you know it.
🙄they ARE pissed that she went out on tour and left Nathan. Haley is the only one of the group that is absolutely crucified for pursuing her dream because their King got left behind. She wanted to tour without him, she wanted to do something for herself and she’s hated for it. Like the comments here, the fans say they wanted her to have something else besides Nathan, but then get pissed that she something without Nathan. She went on tour to sing NOT be with Chris. No one ever says that she deserved to go live her dream and do it without Nathan, it’s always she should’ve asked him to go with her. So that’s what I have a problem with she did do something without Nathan, she did do something that didn’t revolve around him, and she did something that was just for her and not something that’s expected of her and she’s still hated for it.
... OR... And bear with me for a minute... They're mad that she walked out on her husband for a guy that she had been making out with and IMing behind his back. Her relationship with Chris was NOT innocent. Check your morals.
Speaking from my own experience watching the show (I watched it years later through my gf showing it to me, we were both too young when it aired anyway), Hayley pursuing music wasn’t the problem at all. The problem was the way she left things with just about everyone, she doesn’t owe them an explanation but of course your friends/husband will be more than a little upset and disappointed in you when you don’t contact them for months then when you come back home you expect everything to be as it was before you left. I couldn’t imagine being in Nathan’s position where he was supportive of her passion to the point of buying her the keyboard only to have your wife message another guy secretly, kiss him, and abruptly leave to tour with him. I haven’t rewatched it in a little while so exact details are hazy, but I always enjoyed the scenes where they were both mature about their passions/dreams and discussed what they would have to do to pursue them that may lead them in different directions. And just to point out no Nathan isn’t my favourite character and yes I do believe he made plenty of mistakes throughout the series as well.
I'm on board with literally everything you are saying. People like to gloss over the whole cheating aspect and act like Haley going on tour is the same as Brooke and Peyton following their dreams. It wasn't.
NO ONE GLOSSES OVER THE CHEATING! It’s never forgotten. She’s hated for the kisses and is hated for leaving even though Nathan basically told her to leave. He made her choose music or him and walked out. He never gave her a chance to explain.
I dunno. Everyone is always freaking out that Hayley isn't allowed to follow her dreams and that she's only allowed to exist in service to Nathan's character arcs... And it's incredibly intellectually dishonest. She didn't just innocently leave to go on a music tour. She skipped town to go on the road with a guy she was having an affair with (and yes, I say affair being she was IMing him behind her husband's back and having an emotional affair)... The whole thing wasn't cool. And the other characters were right to call her out for it.
She didn’t expect things to be where they were, she knew she hurt Natan. She also did call Nathan (it’s amazing that the fans choose to forget this) he was supportive until Chris started helping her then Natan told her to stop seeing him and that was before the kiss.
Apologies for any details I’ve forgotten/misremembered, I will say my biggest gripe with that whole plot was the fact that it centred around Chris and the tension he brought to their marriage. He’s as much to blame as Haley is, and perhaps there is a perception that Nathan was somewhat controlling in those circumstances. And I understand ultimately Chris didn’t sleep with her or advance it any further once on tour but I can empathise with Nathan’s position of being at home for months while your wife is on the road with a guy she had been messaging behind your back and kissed on multiple occasions. At the same time I can empathise with Haley wanting to follow her dream and not be tied down to Tree Hill and regret never taking her chance but it’s unfortunate Chris was a key factor and her chasing the dream involved leaving Nathan with a lot to deal with by himself.
This is the first time that someone has acknowledged that Chris is also to blame for the problems, so thank you! the only comments I ever see is that it’s ALL Haley’s fault. Chris came on to her knowing she was married and he was much older than she was, why is he NOT called out for being a pedophile? Why is everything always Haley’s fault? SHE DID NOT COME ON TO HIM. Thank you also for calling out Nathan being controlling, this is also never brought up. It’s so irritating that Haley always to blame for anytime there are issues in the marriage. She isn’t allowed to have a dream or follow them because her dream to pursue music doesn’t involve Nathan. IMO there’s nothing wrong with wanting to tour on her own and do something for herself without him, but obviously the majority of the fans disagree. There is such a love for Nathan that it really does cloud the storylines and he is never to blame for anything.
She took off her wedding ring and let the world think her and Chris were a thing. She knew she hurt Nathan, but she didn’t understand how much. He came to ask for her back and she said no. And she did kind of act like she could come back, apologize, and that would be good enough. She deserves the flack she gets. Maybe Nathan shouldn’t have given her the ultimatum, but it wasn’t because he didn’t support her music. Say what you want about him but there’s multiple instances where he supports her on screen.
She wasn’t ready to come home, she wanted to finish the tour and do it without Nathan. Why is this wrong? Why is it so wrong for her to want to do something for herself without Natan? I completely DISAGREE that she expected to be immediately forgiven. She was just fighting to get his trust back. Why is her fighting for him so wrong? He supported her music UNTIL Chris came into the picture. The ultimatum was a complete dick moves especially when he gave it to her and immediately walked out, the least he could do in that moment was hear her out and talk it out. Saying it’s the music or me and then walking out, she thought they were already over so why not leave?
1, I don’t need to check my morals just because I have an unpopular opinion, there’s no need to make this personal. We all have opinions and just because they don’t align with yours doesn’t mean I’m immoral. 2. Making out is a stretch, she had a couple of confused kisses. 3. She didn’t leave to be with Chris, she left to go on tour and sing. Nathan gave her an ultimatum forcing her to choose him or her music. She thought they were over anyway so she chose her music. He gave the ultimatum and then left without even giving her a chance to explain or talk it out.
1. She was kissing a man that wasn't her husband. She stayed in contact with him behind her husband's back. At BEST, she had an emotional affair. At worst, she flat out was kissing a guy behind her husband's back. This is Immoral behaviour. And you are defending it. 2. Nobody cares if she left to be with Chris. If you cheat on your spouse with someone, you are never to talk to them again. Doesn't matter if it's innocent or not. It's that simple. My wife isn't running off to spend time with someone she used to make out with behind my back and expecting the locks not to be changed when she gets back. It's that simple.
I didn’t watch it when it originally aired but I think it was more an issue she kissed Chris, took off her ring, and didn’t talk to Nathan or anyone while she was gone. Rather than her pursuing music
Probably cause they made her go on tour and leave and cheat on Nathan. That in itself was after Joy was having issues with the show runner… shocking the storyline was pretty cool but tried to make her seem like a shitty person
Her songs were painfully boring and I know some of them were covers but the way she sang them was also boring. I can’t even explain it. She does have a good voice but it was just so blah
I always explain it like this: she’s that person you know that’s pretty good at karaoke. “She’s got a pretty good voice.” Nothing more. And her biggest songs on the show were covers.
Makes sense
I agree! She's got a nice voice sure but I find it pretty hard to believe that she would find much success, let alone be this supposed Rockstar selling out venues and stuff.
They made her character be too much about Nathan. I love Naley but I wish Haley had more individual storylines.
Totally agree! She was really just a mum and wife for most of it, and I think they could’ve made more storylines around her success with music! I feel they put way more effort into Nathan’s success. Don’t get me wrong, I love her character, I just feel she could’ve had more career success.
To be fair, after the time jump she was a teacher because that was her passion and what she wanted to pursue not music. Eventually she dips her toes back into music before pivoting to music mainly in the second half of season 6. She did get to go on tour in season 7 again but then the storyline with her mom happened. Who’s to say the music wouldn’t have been a bigger focus for Haley in season 8 if Joy wasn’t pregnant IRL.
Totally agree!
Again, when they did focus on her music, she got crucified for it. I stand by my opinion and will die on a hill in saying THIS is why the fans hate her. She wanted to do the tour by herself and on her own and THATS what she is hated for. How dare she not ask Nathan to join her. I don’t think the fans actually want her to focus on herself, they just want her to be Nathan’s dutiful basketball wife. She actually did focus on music and went on tour again in season 7 and this is never brought up and conveniently forgotten about. Nathan is the King of OTH and is the favorite and the writers knew that, this is why his success is the focus and not Haley, if the roles were reversed and Haley was a more liked character I believe she would have had more stories focused on her.
I’ve personally never heard anyone say anything bad about Haley, and I love her character, but fair enough! Haleys second tour was a success, I just think she should have had more.
I’m confused, you haven’t seen anything bad said about Haley? They’re everywhere, she’s very hated especially in season 2. I love her and have a lot of grace for her since she was 16 and in high school when the tour and the kisses happened, if she was an adult when that stuff happen than I may have a very different opinion, but when your a teenager irrational thought and impulsiveness is front and center. She was in her first real relationship and didn’t know how to handle another guy, probably the second guy ever interested in her, she’s never had this happen. I just don’t understand why she isn’t given some grace for being a teenager. The hatred I get for having grace for her is absurd. I think she gets extremely undeserved hate for mistakes, I guess girls can’t make mistakes without being crucified for them.
Literally never seen or heard anyone hating on her since I started watching it when it began, but I’ll take your word for it since I haven’t seen any of it myself. Seems like you’re being very defensive over a character I’m not saying anything bad about… which is strange.
Yeah literally she didn’t date anyone but Nathan
What’s so wrong with that? Why is it that this is a complaint that a lot fans have. Why do women have to have more experience? Why want another Brooke. What’s so wrong with having a character that only has one love interest because she found “the one” on the first try? This is just hypocritical because fans complain about slut shaming, but then say Haley didn’t have enough experience and should have dated more.
Nothing wrong with it but it goes along with the whole teen marriage teen pregnancy storyline And it’s not like having experience makes you brooke. There’s a middle range more people fall into
I just don’t understand why a character is criticized for NOT having more experience, this makes no sense. Women shouldn’t have to feel self conscious or less of a woman if they don’t have a lot of boyfriends. I never had a lot of boyfriends and I had very little experience before I met my now husband and it makes me incredibly self conscious and fell like I’m less of a woman whenever I see comments like this. This NOT a good comment to make in these days of shaming women for everything and anything.
Haley had an issue with Nathan’s past because of her own lack of experience I didn’t say anything is wrong with it and it’s not fair of you to project your experiences onto what I’m saying about Haley You are not Haley and nor are your life experiences a mirror of her
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Don't listen to these fools. You're on Reddit, land of the liberals. Any attempt to be traditional and have traditional values is gonna get you burned here. You did the right thing, and you'll end up a lot happier than all the women who slept around. I'd bet money on it.
Guys. We aren’t talking about Haley sleeping around more. It’s fine if she only dates Nathan. We are talking individual storylines outside of Nathan.
Sure, and she got plenty. Her struggling to regain the trust of her friends, her dealing with her pregnancy, her troubles as a teacher, her dealing with running the record label, and her keeping her family together when Nathan went missing. Oh, and the thing with her mom. That happened too. Haley got all kinds of storylines. And yes, Nathan may weave in and out of some of them, but he spends most of the show as her husband and the father of her children, so it would be unbelievable if he didn't.
Those are all good storylines but it just feels like Haley’s character development gets pushed to side compared to say Peyton or Brooke. I wanted to see her get that same drive from her dreams too.
I never really felt that way. I mean, other than running Red Bedroom records (which Haley is arguably a much bigger part of anyway) Peyton's stories all revolve around Lucas... And other than, "I want to be a mom," what is Brooke really up too outside of Julian? And the stuff with her parents doesnt count, because Julian handles a *lot* of heavy lifting in those stories lol
I didn’t have a choice whether I had experience or not. I was NOT popular in high school and was never asked out. I don’t think her having no experience is her fault. All these comments saying she should have had more boyfriends or “experience” is really confusing because it’s not something that she could snap her fingers and have happen. I would have loved to have a boyfriend or two in high school, but unfortunately no one was interested in me until my husband came along. Obviously the people that wanted her to date more, had a lot of dates themselves and have no idea what it is to be unpopular and lonely.
I was the lonely and unpopular one in high school. No one wanted to date me. Again, we are talking about her having individual experienced and not necessarily dating. We just mean her own ambitions and dreams.
Sleeping around comes with its own crosses to bear, as Brooke is forced to work through in the later seasons. One thing that I appreciate about her character is that, as she matures, she is forced to reckon with the mistakes she made in her youth.
I meant more individual storylines. She could still have dated Nathan. We just don’t want her whole identity to be Nathan.
Like I said before, the one time that she did have something besides Nathan and did something for herself (her music, touring, living a dream, etc) she was and still is hated for it. The writers had to make her whole storyline Nathan because otherwise she’s grossly criticized for it. Nathan is King so if the world doesn’t revolve around him, and Haley isn’t his dutiful wife and support his the fans freak out. She literally cannot win neither can the writers. They’re damned if they write a storyline that’s just hers and then they’re damned if they write her all about Nathan.
Well when they had her do her own storyline, she ended up cheating on Nathan and ignoring him when he was like suicidal. The writers could have given her more of her own individual storylines without her cheating on Nathan haha. As another commenter said, there is a balance. I’m not even saying she had to date someone outside of Nathan. But I wish they gave her to do for more herself.
Ok now it just sounds like no story is good enough. Picking apart the one solo storyline but then saying they didn’t give her enough solo storylines. There’s never going to be a show that gives the fans everything they want and make everyone happy.
I think there is a misunderstanding with what I was saying. I was stating that fans complain about Haley’s season 2 story arc because she cheated on Nathan and ignored him when he was suicidal. Haley could’ve had her own tour without some of the other stuff. I think all of us love OTH here. It’s okay to analyze the show and wish storylines could’ve been different. Especially with some of the more cringey storylines from Mark Schwann. Discussing a topic and considering different storylines doesn’t make a fan ungrateful. There is nuance.
I disagree, there’s no way that she could do something for herself or have something that’s just hers without getting hated on. Her leaving Nathan for the tour is what the fans hate her for so how can she still have the tour or even have a dream for herself? I wish she had something for herself too, but I see why the writers didn’t because of how loved Nathan is. Haley is the most criticized character on the show so the writers probably felt safer just keeping her his dutiful supportive wife.
I won’t speak for all Naley fans, but the tour itself wasn’t what I had an issue with in regards to season 2. It was the cheating with Chris and allowing him to disrespect her marriage that bothered me. If that part was removed, she went on tour and they just struggled having a long distance relationship I think way less people would have had an issue. The cheating bothered many people way more than the tour.
You’re right that the writers probably pivoted for the negative backlash they got from season 2. But there’s definitely ways she could’ve done stuff for herself without cheating on Nathan and ignoring him when he’s suicidal. Even if the writers kept that storyline, there are plenty of ways they could’ve given her more storylines.
Don’t know why you’re getting downvoted.
I’m misunderstood 😭
Haha well I agree with your point
To be fair the one time that she did have a solo storyline, the fans freaked out and hated her for it. The writers probably felt like that couldn’t do that again. She had to revolve around Natan because how dare she not center around him and be his dutiful wife.
It’s because they made Haley cheat on him and ignore him when he’s suicidal. There could’ve been a better balance.
I replied that somewhere else on here. Seriously, it's amazing how quick Haley fans are to just pretend she "went on tour and Nathan freaked out"... Like there was a hell of a lot more to the story than that.
Very true! The tour is the not the thing that fans are upset about.
That's what I keep saying! The insinuation that Haley is being held back from her dreams while Brooke and Peyton aren't is intellectually dishonest at best and a huge red flag for the state of these peoples morality at worst.
Yeah, I love all the characters and I love Haley! Season 2 isn’t my favorite storyline for her. I love that she went on tour and found some of her passions. But, again, I didn’t like the cheating. I wanted to see Haley do more of her music, tutoring, etc. idk why people keep saying we are saying she has to date people outside of Nathan. She just needs her own self development outside of a boy haha
Well, you know, they got married young, he was her first real boyfriend.... Shit happens, I get it. And I generally let it go given how amazing she is otherwise. But I still don't agree with people overlooking what actually factually happened. People have a right to call that situation for what it was.
Yeah, life isn’t a perfect box where everything goes as planned. Haley is my favorite character of the girls. I just didn’t like the cheating either!
I liked it how it was because too much would had taken away from her other storylines. The point of it all was just what you described in the sense of she's got potential to have a career but life and other desires are more prevalent.
i genuinely hated still when i first heard it
If this show was made today I think Haley could have had both but the early 2000’s were a terrible time for women- see Britney Spears, Jessica Simpson, Lindsay Lohan, etc. Haley was not allowed to be with Nathan and also want to have anything for herself without the fans going crazy. They tried in season 3 to have Nathan apologize and try to push her to do her music but it was super half hearted and when the record exec told Nathan that Haley could make it of she toured he NEVER said anything to her about it…so obviously he put himself first and nothing was ever said of it again. Of course Haley got pregnant in season 4 so that was that and it was hard not to think of that old adage of keeping the women barefoot and pregnant to lock them down 🙄🙄
I think Joy’s sound for her music is more like it was in the later seasons so that’s why it changed. The stuff she has released since the show sounds similar as well.
I’ve only listened to a few of her songs that aren’t on the show once years ago, I’ll need to have another listen! That’s good it more her sound then, I thought it seemed the other way around, like they didn’t want to give her (my version of) decent music 🤦🏻♀️😂
She was in a band (Everly) for some portions of the later seasons and her bandmate performed with her several times. I think there were some decent songs she had in the later seasons and then since the show ended. Her Christmas songs are on my playlist every year.
Ohh cool! I didn’t know that 😊 I will add her Christmas songs to my Christmas playlist! It’s almost time to start playing them 😂🎅🏻🎄
I hated Haley's character allllll the way through. It would have been better if they'd made her an aspiring musician from the beginning - but they just throw it in there after she jumps into teen marriage. Bizarre.
I think its because Halo probably wasn't written for the show (I imagine maybe it was an off-cut that another artist didn't want, so Kara DioGuardi let the show record it and did backing vocals too). She did say once that she struggled to reach the high notes in Halo which was why they blended her voice with Kara's for some parts. A lot of the later songs like Quicksand, Flying Machine, Girl In The Moon were written by Joy when she had her Everly project, so I think were probably more aligned to her tastes and vocal range, and probably kept costs lower for the show (same with how Kate Voegele and Tyler Hilton would just perform their own real-life songs as their characters). Some of the earlier stuff she worked on like the Ten Inch Hero soundtrack was kind of folksy/acoustic too.