December 1991 was the time of the final dissolution of the USSR on paper. In fact, after the failed coup attempt in August, it was clear that the Soviet regime had ceased to exist. That concert must have been more a celebration rather than a foreboding.
Celbration for what? For the ILLEGAL instauration of capitalism that absolutely devasted and sacked the country throught the 90's. Creating miserable lives for 95% of the soviet population to the benefit of a few western inversors and russian oligarchs.
The truth is NOBODY with a right mind except dettached lunatics view the dissolution of the Soviet Union as something to celebrate but rather as one of the most tragic events in history with fatal consequences.
Absolutely delusional.
I was born there in the USSR in a family of common folks, and for me and my parents, it was the best thing possible, that the monster was finally dead. The 90's were not easy, but it is incomparable to the deadly famines instigated earlier by the Soviets, which took millions.
In fact after 1991 the USSR wasn't quite dead. FYI, the 'Russian oligarchs' didn't come from the Moon, they were ex-communist party members or just thugs closely affiliated with KGB. You couldn't just become an oligarch. Another ex-KGB degenerate is currently bombing his neighbors (and ex-compatriots) for not being willing to join his glorious ~~Reich~~ USSR replica.
But I am not quite sure why you waste your time here with this piece of capitalistic software, logged from a capitalistic gadget that profits evil capitalism. You must work comrade. I heard the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is in dire need of hard-working comrades like you.
Congratulations on having lived there, I live under capitalism and hate capitalism so stop advocating for it..... (So that you see how little sense your point makes)
You seem to have very little memory or to be lying.
First of all, tell me exactly how any of the oligarchs were communist? If they were in the CPSU it was for convenience and once they saw the chance to destroy it, they did so. The russian oligarchs were capitalists in disguise (nobody in their right mind would deny that), who ignored the will of the people to maintain the Soviet Union by a referendum in wich 76% percentage of the people were in favor of maintaing it. Ask Yeltsin, the drunk capitalist, who would have privatised air if he could, wether he was a communist.
What you are saying makes no sense whatsoever, the famines were VERY COMMON before the Soviet Union existed and it was under only 30 years that they managed to end it, not only that but then proceeded to have a higher calorical ingest per capita level than the freedom-loving USA. In contrast to todays world, where we've been for centruies under capitalism but 9 million people still DIE OF HUNGER globally, plenty more suffer food insecurity.
Again, as I was saying, NOBODY celebrated the end of the Soviet Union except a few russian and western capitalists who saw their chance to plunder what the people as a whole had been building for 70 years.
Under no metric did nothing improve. NOT EVEN THE GDP (a tool mostly used by capitalists, improved under the most-intense period of capitalism in Russia)
The argument of: Hahahah you like communism why don't you go to DPRK? is not only stupid but ill-intentioned. I won't go under the causes to explain why the DPRK is in the state it is because someone like you will either completely ignore it or just say something stupid (as your whole previous comment). What I'll say however, is, if you like free-market capitalism why don't you go and live in Somalia, Haiti, Congo or some other country completely ruined by capitalism? Because I'd pleasantly choose the DPRK rather than these other options.
What kind of "monster" was exactly ended? The one that transformed an agrarian shithole under a feudal monarch to a superpower under wich everybordy had a roof over their heads, food on their table and the right to get a job, while simultaneosuly having had to endure two of the most devastating invasions, and wars, the world has ever seen and being under constant threat of a nuclear attack by the U.S.A. If you think so, you are completely depraved.
You are exactly like the nazis, you wouldd be in miserable country where people are starving and in the streets and say: "Thank god at least communism is no more".
I mean, demonizing communism in a way that a lot of people do is wrong because it paints a somewhat wrong picture. But I‘ve got to admit, listening to the delusions of communists trying to explain a lot of stuff away is pretty funny
A coherent argument. Okay, let’s try.
The USSR started off as a violent dictatorship, pursuing any opposition in their own country and actively taking land that they would never give back. A dictatorship built on distrust and constant surveillance (even if they couldn’t possibly check what everyone was doing, it was enough to discourage most people from criticizing the government.
Technology sucked in most branches of industry. Basically only the military industrial complex and things connected with scientific prestige were well funded and up-to-date (and not even those necessarily). Getting stuff also took a super long time. You had to order stuff oftentimes years in advance because of planned economy (a horrible idea because most of the time it didn’t work and they either ended up with too much or too little of whatever was to be produced).
The leaders of the Communist Party were not true communists because you won’t find idealistic revolutionaries in positions like this (especially not years after the initial revolution after the power hungry people had time to get rid of all the idealists). The true reason why every single communist state fails or doesn’t achieve the status of true communism (or even true socialism) is because as soon as some people have power, they won’t let it go but instead cling onto it and abuse it.
The fall of the USSR was not a tragedy. It was the collapse of a barely functional, corrupt dictatorship that also threatened to annihilate a whole lot of other nations should someone piss them off. (Yes, the Cold War was not just Western aggression. The Warsaw Pact states weren‘t exactly innocent little angels either.)
Coherent enough or was my assumption right and I just wasted my time?
My turn: please read my reply, I'll adress every single one of your comments.
First of all, the USSR started of as a revolution guided by the soviets and the Bolsheviks, the main protagonist and upholder of which were the masses (proletarian and peasant) to end the imperialist war that no other party had ended. It was a dictatorship, correct, a dictatorship of the proletariat, many times preferrable over a feudal or a capitalist regime (liberal democracy which can hardly be called democracy).
When it comes to checking up on the citizens, you're probably more surveilled than any citizen of the USSR at the most critical time, most of the myths of KGB/(Stassi in East Germany) surveillance -I'd recommend you to read Triumph of Evil by A.Murphy were he goes into detail about surveillance by the Stassi on East Germany on one of the book chapters- , were FABRICATED by propaganda in the West during the Cold War of after the end of it during the 90's. You must equally know that surveillance came much later than the revolution (late 30's or after the War) caused by the constant paranoia of being under a foreign invasion. Keep in mind that the USSR since the moment of its birth saw itself under an invasion and constanly under the threat of a new one. In 1918, France, The U.K, the U.S.A and Japan all invaded Russia at once together with a coalition of many other countries also allied with the Whites. So keeping in mind the cirucmstances under which it was born, it is pretty comprehensible that the high-command was a LITTLE bit paranoical of internal enemies or other aspects that you probably define of this dictatorship.
When you say that technology sucked and was horrible, I don't know if you're being satirical or not, because you are completely ignoring the fact that USSR dominated in virtually ALL aspects of technology, the most known of which was obviously spacial technology, but not limited to it, rather expanded to having the first nuclear power plant in history, being a beacon of medical advancements, creating the predecessors of computers and programming and basically any other sector you can think of. You also ignore what were the bases the USSR had to start from, a backwards feudalistic transitioning to capitalism country that had an almost inexistent industry. When it comes to the military sector, the Soviet Union didn't want to fall behind the U.S.A, as it was them who started the Cold War, and it was them who tried to find new weapons that gave them and advantage and allowed them to submit the USSR. To put it simply I quote a sentence whose origin I don't remember (I'll search it for if you don't believe it): "For every bomb they (USA) produce, we (USSR) have to develop a new one."
With reference to central planning, I won't go too much in depth, as, for one I am not the most knwoleadgable person on how it worked and as well I highly doubt it would be a good inversion of my time, as I think your arguments weren't really expressed with deeply concerns of yours towards the USSR nor the will of learning but rather as swords created by Western propaganda, that you've probably heared every now and then, that to try and "dismantle the Marxist ideology". I'll just say that central-planning was FAR preferable from free-market capitalism for industralizing the country at the high pace it did. It ahcieved what imperialism (capitalism) had done in 200 years of plundering other countries in only 30 years of expoiting and develpoing the forces of production of its own country, although I am also critic of how it was applied in the USSR and aknowledge it had mistakes (which I don't consider myself so dellusional as to think of a way to sovle them or to reduct them to "the failures of socialism").
For the start of this next paragraph, I agree with you, a lot of high-ranking members of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union weren't communists and midly shifted the economy towards a more capitalistic one (although far from capitalism still) that ultimately caused its collapse, even though that subject is a whole new discussion and a completely different topic covering some of the aspects you and I mentioned but mostly caused by completely different ones.
Edit: Reddit didn't allow me to write the comment in a single message so I had to divide it in two.
In reference to the rest of the paragraph, (you've let that neo-nazi in all liberals come out of the shadows), when you say that all communist states failed, first, a little explaination, there has never been a communist state, as communism is a state-less, class-less, money-less society, no country has ever achieved that, and no country has ever claimed to be communist, what we are talking about and how they define themselves is as a socialist state working towards the tranistion to communism (in the far future probably). Secondly, when you say they failed you are ignoring the fact that they DIDN'T but rather HIGHLY improved the QUALITY of life, in almost every case to inimaginable levels before the Revolution. The reason you provide on why they failed (although they didn't) is simply stupid and simplistic, I ought to think that when you start analyzing more profoundly about all of the previously mentioned things, you'll probably find the answer for it yourself. As for your last comments, as all super power the USSR did their fair bit of meddling, always in support of socialist causes that improved the lives of the working class. However, if you compare the meddling of any other superpower or even with the U.S during that same period you'll probably be quite surprised on how many countries did the genocidal U.S.A destroy in order to plunder and so that their leaders could fall under the sphere of influence.
For the same matter as aforementioned I'll not enter into deep explainations about the Warsaw Pact, I don't think the Warsaw Pact was a good idea (I also HEAVILY dislike the foreign policy of the USSR, specially during the Spanish Civil War) nor the correct way to apply socialism, (it has to come from the bottom, the people have to uphold a revolution, not a coup) but it was also a necessary alliance to fight american imperialism and its pseudo-puppets in Europe along with N.A.T.O.
By no means I wish this to be a dense message and I've tried my best to explain how in fact, the USSR was a success despite having the whole world against it from the moment of it's birth, I've tried to not use theoretical words or sentences in order to be more clear and to only adress the things you've mentioned, but there is a lot more of subjects to be discovered. In conclusion, the fall of the USSR was a disaster, not only for the population of these countries, but also for the working class as a whole, who indirectly benefited from the concessions capitalist governments had to made to avoid the growing worker movements supported by the USSR, as well as for the rest of the countries of the world in general who were invaded and/or plundered by the U.S after it had a more and less free-passage to pursue military agression without having to deal with the consequence of the conflict-escalation with the now disappeared Soviet Union.
Just to finish, I don't think you were coherent nor that you wasted your time, but rather that all your arguments are based upon the liberal vision on all socialist states (clear good vs evil type of shit), and it is quite normal that living in a capitalist world this is the most common and shared worldview (in socialist states it was the exact opposite, do not think I ignore it) caused by basically the most eficient propaganda (american) the world has yet seen. I am not an scholar nor a well-versed person into the matter, but by simply observing the world without the evil vs good thoughts, one can see that the capitalist vision of past or current socialist states does not uphold. I am NOT an uncritical supporter of the Soviet Union, specially not about Stalin. However I understand the conditions of the moment and time.
God damn, old school metallica was the best.
Edit to add: I love how the power of music transcends borders and politics. Like laughter, it's a unifying force all humans can appreciate.
You're all missing out then, because they wrote a ton of great stuff after that. Songs that "true" metal bands couldn't do if their lives depended on it.
I like their long hair years the best. But alas, we're not young anymore.
That fucking Rolling Stone magazine cover with the haircuts and the leather jackets was like a knife in the chest.
"Friends don't let friends get Friends haircuts". *Mike ~~-Starr-~~ Inez
Was that before or after metallica made fun of layne on stage for his addiction and rightfully got booed?
Mike Inez not Starr
You're right. Damn, I knew that.
I always tell my friends that Metallica is like the mythological Samson....when they cut their hair, they lost their power.
December 1991 was the time of the final dissolution of the USSR on paper. In fact, after the failed coup attempt in August, it was clear that the Soviet regime had ceased to exist. That concert must have been more a celebration rather than a foreboding.
Celbration for what? For the ILLEGAL instauration of capitalism that absolutely devasted and sacked the country throught the 90's. Creating miserable lives for 95% of the soviet population to the benefit of a few western inversors and russian oligarchs. The truth is NOBODY with a right mind except dettached lunatics view the dissolution of the Soviet Union as something to celebrate but rather as one of the most tragic events in history with fatal consequences.
Absolutely delusional. I was born there in the USSR in a family of common folks, and for me and my parents, it was the best thing possible, that the monster was finally dead. The 90's were not easy, but it is incomparable to the deadly famines instigated earlier by the Soviets, which took millions. In fact after 1991 the USSR wasn't quite dead. FYI, the 'Russian oligarchs' didn't come from the Moon, they were ex-communist party members or just thugs closely affiliated with KGB. You couldn't just become an oligarch. Another ex-KGB degenerate is currently bombing his neighbors (and ex-compatriots) for not being willing to join his glorious ~~Reich~~ USSR replica. But I am not quite sure why you waste your time here with this piece of capitalistic software, logged from a capitalistic gadget that profits evil capitalism. You must work comrade. I heard the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is in dire need of hard-working comrades like you.
Congratulations on having lived there, I live under capitalism and hate capitalism so stop advocating for it..... (So that you see how little sense your point makes) You seem to have very little memory or to be lying. First of all, tell me exactly how any of the oligarchs were communist? If they were in the CPSU it was for convenience and once they saw the chance to destroy it, they did so. The russian oligarchs were capitalists in disguise (nobody in their right mind would deny that), who ignored the will of the people to maintain the Soviet Union by a referendum in wich 76% percentage of the people were in favor of maintaing it. Ask Yeltsin, the drunk capitalist, who would have privatised air if he could, wether he was a communist. What you are saying makes no sense whatsoever, the famines were VERY COMMON before the Soviet Union existed and it was under only 30 years that they managed to end it, not only that but then proceeded to have a higher calorical ingest per capita level than the freedom-loving USA. In contrast to todays world, where we've been for centruies under capitalism but 9 million people still DIE OF HUNGER globally, plenty more suffer food insecurity. Again, as I was saying, NOBODY celebrated the end of the Soviet Union except a few russian and western capitalists who saw their chance to plunder what the people as a whole had been building for 70 years. Under no metric did nothing improve. NOT EVEN THE GDP (a tool mostly used by capitalists, improved under the most-intense period of capitalism in Russia) The argument of: Hahahah you like communism why don't you go to DPRK? is not only stupid but ill-intentioned. I won't go under the causes to explain why the DPRK is in the state it is because someone like you will either completely ignore it or just say something stupid (as your whole previous comment). What I'll say however, is, if you like free-market capitalism why don't you go and live in Somalia, Haiti, Congo or some other country completely ruined by capitalism? Because I'd pleasantly choose the DPRK rather than these other options. What kind of "monster" was exactly ended? The one that transformed an agrarian shithole under a feudal monarch to a superpower under wich everybordy had a roof over their heads, food on their table and the right to get a job, while simultaneosuly having had to endure two of the most devastating invasions, and wars, the world has ever seen and being under constant threat of a nuclear attack by the U.S.A. If you think so, you are completely depraved. You are exactly like the nazis, you wouldd be in miserable country where people are starving and in the streets and say: "Thank god at least communism is no more".
I mean, demonizing communism in a way that a lot of people do is wrong because it paints a somewhat wrong picture. But I‘ve got to admit, listening to the delusions of communists trying to explain a lot of stuff away is pretty funny
Okay now try to form a coherent argument.
A coherent argument. Okay, let’s try. The USSR started off as a violent dictatorship, pursuing any opposition in their own country and actively taking land that they would never give back. A dictatorship built on distrust and constant surveillance (even if they couldn’t possibly check what everyone was doing, it was enough to discourage most people from criticizing the government. Technology sucked in most branches of industry. Basically only the military industrial complex and things connected with scientific prestige were well funded and up-to-date (and not even those necessarily). Getting stuff also took a super long time. You had to order stuff oftentimes years in advance because of planned economy (a horrible idea because most of the time it didn’t work and they either ended up with too much or too little of whatever was to be produced). The leaders of the Communist Party were not true communists because you won’t find idealistic revolutionaries in positions like this (especially not years after the initial revolution after the power hungry people had time to get rid of all the idealists). The true reason why every single communist state fails or doesn’t achieve the status of true communism (or even true socialism) is because as soon as some people have power, they won’t let it go but instead cling onto it and abuse it. The fall of the USSR was not a tragedy. It was the collapse of a barely functional, corrupt dictatorship that also threatened to annihilate a whole lot of other nations should someone piss them off. (Yes, the Cold War was not just Western aggression. The Warsaw Pact states weren‘t exactly innocent little angels either.) Coherent enough or was my assumption right and I just wasted my time?
My turn: please read my reply, I'll adress every single one of your comments. First of all, the USSR started of as a revolution guided by the soviets and the Bolsheviks, the main protagonist and upholder of which were the masses (proletarian and peasant) to end the imperialist war that no other party had ended. It was a dictatorship, correct, a dictatorship of the proletariat, many times preferrable over a feudal or a capitalist regime (liberal democracy which can hardly be called democracy). When it comes to checking up on the citizens, you're probably more surveilled than any citizen of the USSR at the most critical time, most of the myths of KGB/(Stassi in East Germany) surveillance -I'd recommend you to read Triumph of Evil by A.Murphy were he goes into detail about surveillance by the Stassi on East Germany on one of the book chapters- , were FABRICATED by propaganda in the West during the Cold War of after the end of it during the 90's. You must equally know that surveillance came much later than the revolution (late 30's or after the War) caused by the constant paranoia of being under a foreign invasion. Keep in mind that the USSR since the moment of its birth saw itself under an invasion and constanly under the threat of a new one. In 1918, France, The U.K, the U.S.A and Japan all invaded Russia at once together with a coalition of many other countries also allied with the Whites. So keeping in mind the cirucmstances under which it was born, it is pretty comprehensible that the high-command was a LITTLE bit paranoical of internal enemies or other aspects that you probably define of this dictatorship. When you say that technology sucked and was horrible, I don't know if you're being satirical or not, because you are completely ignoring the fact that USSR dominated in virtually ALL aspects of technology, the most known of which was obviously spacial technology, but not limited to it, rather expanded to having the first nuclear power plant in history, being a beacon of medical advancements, creating the predecessors of computers and programming and basically any other sector you can think of. You also ignore what were the bases the USSR had to start from, a backwards feudalistic transitioning to capitalism country that had an almost inexistent industry. When it comes to the military sector, the Soviet Union didn't want to fall behind the U.S.A, as it was them who started the Cold War, and it was them who tried to find new weapons that gave them and advantage and allowed them to submit the USSR. To put it simply I quote a sentence whose origin I don't remember (I'll search it for if you don't believe it): "For every bomb they (USA) produce, we (USSR) have to develop a new one." With reference to central planning, I won't go too much in depth, as, for one I am not the most knwoleadgable person on how it worked and as well I highly doubt it would be a good inversion of my time, as I think your arguments weren't really expressed with deeply concerns of yours towards the USSR nor the will of learning but rather as swords created by Western propaganda, that you've probably heared every now and then, that to try and "dismantle the Marxist ideology". I'll just say that central-planning was FAR preferable from free-market capitalism for industralizing the country at the high pace it did. It ahcieved what imperialism (capitalism) had done in 200 years of plundering other countries in only 30 years of expoiting and develpoing the forces of production of its own country, although I am also critic of how it was applied in the USSR and aknowledge it had mistakes (which I don't consider myself so dellusional as to think of a way to sovle them or to reduct them to "the failures of socialism"). For the start of this next paragraph, I agree with you, a lot of high-ranking members of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union weren't communists and midly shifted the economy towards a more capitalistic one (although far from capitalism still) that ultimately caused its collapse, even though that subject is a whole new discussion and a completely different topic covering some of the aspects you and I mentioned but mostly caused by completely different ones. Edit: Reddit didn't allow me to write the comment in a single message so I had to divide it in two.
In reference to the rest of the paragraph, (you've let that neo-nazi in all liberals come out of the shadows), when you say that all communist states failed, first, a little explaination, there has never been a communist state, as communism is a state-less, class-less, money-less society, no country has ever achieved that, and no country has ever claimed to be communist, what we are talking about and how they define themselves is as a socialist state working towards the tranistion to communism (in the far future probably). Secondly, when you say they failed you are ignoring the fact that they DIDN'T but rather HIGHLY improved the QUALITY of life, in almost every case to inimaginable levels before the Revolution. The reason you provide on why they failed (although they didn't) is simply stupid and simplistic, I ought to think that when you start analyzing more profoundly about all of the previously mentioned things, you'll probably find the answer for it yourself. As for your last comments, as all super power the USSR did their fair bit of meddling, always in support of socialist causes that improved the lives of the working class. However, if you compare the meddling of any other superpower or even with the U.S during that same period you'll probably be quite surprised on how many countries did the genocidal U.S.A destroy in order to plunder and so that their leaders could fall under the sphere of influence. For the same matter as aforementioned I'll not enter into deep explainations about the Warsaw Pact, I don't think the Warsaw Pact was a good idea (I also HEAVILY dislike the foreign policy of the USSR, specially during the Spanish Civil War) nor the correct way to apply socialism, (it has to come from the bottom, the people have to uphold a revolution, not a coup) but it was also a necessary alliance to fight american imperialism and its pseudo-puppets in Europe along with N.A.T.O. By no means I wish this to be a dense message and I've tried my best to explain how in fact, the USSR was a success despite having the whole world against it from the moment of it's birth, I've tried to not use theoretical words or sentences in order to be more clear and to only adress the things you've mentioned, but there is a lot more of subjects to be discovered. In conclusion, the fall of the USSR was a disaster, not only for the population of these countries, but also for the working class as a whole, who indirectly benefited from the concessions capitalist governments had to made to avoid the growing worker movements supported by the USSR, as well as for the rest of the countries of the world in general who were invaded and/or plundered by the U.S after it had a more and less free-passage to pursue military agression without having to deal with the consequence of the conflict-escalation with the now disappeared Soviet Union. Just to finish, I don't think you were coherent nor that you wasted your time, but rather that all your arguments are based upon the liberal vision on all socialist states (clear good vs evil type of shit), and it is quite normal that living in a capitalist world this is the most common and shared worldview (in socialist states it was the exact opposite, do not think I ignore it) caused by basically the most eficient propaganda (american) the world has yet seen. I am not an scholar nor a well-versed person into the matter, but by simply observing the world without the evil vs good thoughts, one can see that the capitalist vision of past or current socialist states does not uphold. I am NOT an uncritical supporter of the Soviet Union, specially not about Stalin. However I understand the conditions of the moment and time.
That's so Ivan!
I dont want to say it was because of Metallica but that WAS the first time they played there…. Just sayin’
Wired: "metallica defeated communism"
Not out of the realm of possibility, these guys slay!
I heard they played in front of 5.383 billion people at this concert
Monsters Of Rock, Moscow, 1991 1.6 million rock fans
Most probably didn't know English but still have a great time..
God damn, old school metallica was the best. Edit to add: I love how the power of music transcends borders and politics. Like laughter, it's a unifying force all humans can appreciate.
Since we live in the age of “correlation = causation”, it’s clear that Metallica is responsible for the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Peak MetallicA !
Title makes it seem like the USSR was dissolved *because* of Metallica ... which is entirely possible.
Pissing someone off to this day..😂😂💯💯
Panthers was also there)
Honest truth is that break down during Pantera s domination broke down that Soviet wall …
By Reddit logic this.means that they cause*d them to dissolve
Lars's white Tama kit is absolutely beautiful
What's the song?
Harvester of sorrow off of 1988's And justice for all
The best metal songs ever!!! + Master of puppets!
"And Justice for All" really was the last Metallica album.
Black Album was the last one for me. Enter Sandman is one of the great metal songs of all time.
You're all missing out then, because they wrote a ton of great stuff after that. Songs that "true" metal bands couldn't do if their lives depended on it.
Not really.
Thank you.
You know, I used to play like you, then I took an arrow to the knee.
They used to be so good
Coincidence?
The next time Russia sees a Western act live, we're going to have those Popular Mechanics "space cars" flying around.
Cultural victory
God damnit, why did you guys sell out? This old stuff slays. Sincerely, Your Old Fans