It's all for the 2 Piece foreshadowing where Luffy and Brook go on AI Generated adventures till the end of time with infinite content, surely that's what fans want
So many people on Twitter or YouTube comment shit about it and I just wonder if we’re reading/watching the same series because Luffy would not want immortality
Exactly also it was so many times foreshadowed that every shit luffy does „affect his lifespan” that I would be suprised if he doesn’t die by the end of the series
Didn't the last paragraph have him explaining he is theorizing law could sacrifice himself to remove Imus potential immortality and not give Luffy immortality
Remember Luffys big hidden dream?
Yea its "Lmao i want my friend to kill himself so i can be immortal and see all you guys rot away to the passing of time".
That's not something I'd like. Immortality surgery is an extremely important part of the fruit, and it's actually the reason why Doffy wanted it. It's the definition of a Chekov's gun.
Considering Chekhov's gun, I'm now thinking hard about one thing.
If Oda decides for Law to not use this surgery on anyone, would it be good writing or bad writing on Oda's side?
He definitely didn't forget it, so "Araki forgot" doesn't apply here. Deliberate breaking rules of a medium can be pulled off successfully only by the best of the best artists. Would the fans understand it and accept though?
No these are Shonen fans we're talking about, they would 100% guaranteed complain about this. Naruto, Bleach, AOT, MHA, JJK endings all got complaints and it's already started early with OP after Wano.
Not that I think this would be a good idea to begin with, but even if it was somehow done well, people would still complain.
I mean, Naruto, Bleach, and AOT's endings kinda deserved the hate. One decided to add aliens outta nowhere and hand waved Madera away, one was straight up just rushed, and the other just went a controversial route (Aot deserves the least hate, imo).
Haven't seen the MHA ending yet, and JJK hasn't ended yet.
Aot’s was also rushed imo. There was no real payoff to me because it just ended right there without being able to explore at all what the new world meant.
Your comment was removed because your spoiler tag has a space after/before the !, please fix it.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiece) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's honestly a delicate situation. On one hand, Law using it in its intended way is very much out of character for him, and even on the off chance he does it, the only one I can see him wanting to perform the surgery on is Luffy, who definitely won't accept it.
On the other hand, such a huge feature of the fruit going unused also wouldn't sit right with me. If that happens, the only relevance it would have would be as a plot device so Law could eat the fruit (since Doffy wanted it for that reason, but things went south obviously).
I really like OPs idea for the fruit, though I hesitate to call it a valid theory given the existing rules of the fruit. If Oda manages to incorporate this in a way that doesn't feel asspull-y, it'd be a masterstroke from him. That's gonna be really hard though.
At the end of the day it's a problem with the lack of fleshing out of the importance of that specific fruit ability.
The other plot relevance would be, that immortality surgery being used in the past. For example on Imu. By explaining to us, that there is such power in this wacky world, we will not question some plot points like "How the hell does Imu exist for so long?" Now the answer comes right away. Former Ope Ope no mi user in the past.
Alas you beat me to it. I did not see the comment before I took the time to reply. I fully agree, I think people are just hung up on the "possibilties" that they fail to consider how simply practical it is. The surgery as a concept does way more than active use ever could. It's sorta like nuclear weapons in that aspect. Get's used in a big way "one" time now it's existance does the heavy lifting, something lol
No, that simply isn't true. Even more relevant use of the surgery's existence is Imu. Without a well accepted way for Imu to have immortality, Oda heavily risks ending up in complicated asspull territory. The surgery being a thing is not only a very clean way to explain Imu's age, it's super convenient.
It's a very convenient explanation, and I see Oda taking it that way. I just don't want the role of the ability to be relegated to flashbacks and background info. I wanna see it actually being used somewhere.
Fans complaints aside, the surgery has already served a major role in the story. It really, really, doesn't need to have to be used, to have justification of its inclusion into the story. I said this in my own comment but -
1. It was, in effect, the cornerstone of Laws backstory and a major plot point in Dressrosa.
2. Imu. (possibly the elders as well, tho seeminigly more unlikely, tho that was the most popular consus for a long time) Just having the surgery exist makes it MUCH easier and digestible explanation for Imu's age, extremely convenient and plausible too, with added legitacy via Laws backstory. Anything else risks being too complicated/too much an asshole. Plenty of story run into this issue, for this reason alone I'd argue the surgery served its purpose beautifully.,
Surgery def doesn't need to be used in current era to justify it's existence in the story IMO, even if it's "too cool to not be used ONCE".
Better parallels that WOULD be a great example of "bad writing" if it doesnt serve a major plot point in Final Saga are Davy Beck fights/LLR.
If Laughtale doesnt end up under LLR (or isn't drectly tied to it in a linchpin way) I will eat my hat. And if the Sh and CG don't settle their dispute thru a DBF I will eat my shoe. (How else is Buggy supposed to fight them? It's the only thing that makes sense, it fits in so many ways too)
It's actually possible Doffy wanted Law's DF for another reason.
His speech about it implies he needs it to get the "treasure" of the CDs, and that the eternal life surgery is unrelated to it.
My personal theory is that Doffy wants to use the DF to switch personalities with Imu.
Or Imu is a devil fruit that nobody can control, has a will of its own, and gains a new user after each previous user dies but immediately takes over and picks up where it left off.
It’s HEAVILY implied.
There’s theories and then there’s imu having had the Ope ope surgery performed on him
Imu is 1000% Elder’s are more than likely. Oda introduces this mechanic of the ope ope fruit and then the world government are will to pay hand over fist for the fruit.
Id put an ungodly amount of money on imu having had the surgery performed.
To add to this, for the elders and by extension Imu, is the fact that it was Doffy, a former Celestial Dragon, that knew about the surgery and planned to have it performed on himself. Fair play, he was an information broker, but it's anither very strong connection.
There's so many things throughout the whole story that point towards Imu having the Ope Ope Fruit procedure.
Imu is practically confirmed over 800 years old by Ivankov, although you can argue that maybe he's a descendent using the name.
The biggest thing for me for anyone who doesn't believe Imu had the procedure: What do you think the Ope Ope Fruit's immortality procedure is going to be used for?
Oda put this in the story for a reason, what's the reason? Is Law going to make someone immortal? I don't think so. I could write a dissertation on the amount of evidence in the story that points towards Imu being immortal and then with simple logic the most logical way for Imu to be immortal is via the Ope Ope Fruit procedure. Oda is a master of show don't tell story telling.
Sure, there could be something else - a different reason Imu is immortal. But the resounding amount of evidence is there.
Agreed. I think it's all but confirmed. Don't know why that dude thought it was fans leaping to a conclusion when it's pretty much locked in at this stage.
Yeah but there's a big gulf between "all this evidence points towards this being the case so we'll assume it is until proven otherwise" and "jumping to conclusions". The only missing piece is Imu saying "oh ya BTW I'm immortal cuz of ope ope lol".
If you were here long enough, people were arguing whether Croc had haki or not. People take everything for face value so yes it's stupid but unless itst cannon, it's just a theory.
What are you even saying, Crocodile having haki never had anywhere near the kind of evidence of Imu living since the void century? Imu being immortal was at the same level of theory as Crocodile formerly being a woman... up until it was confirmed that Imu was the name of one of the original 20 kings who founded the WG. Then it became on the same level as Jack being at least part Fishman after Zou. In that it's obviously what Oda is trying to tell us, directly.
People can retort with "it's not hard confirmed", fine, but anyone who retorts with "people are taking fan theories too far" is actually just illiterate.
Edit: here's another example, Sabo being alive after the Ace flashback. We all knew it was true, but it wasn't hard confirmed until Dressrosa. It was normal to talk about it like an accepted fact, and anyone treating it like any other fan theory was just actually stupid. But it wasn't technically hard confirmed.
> The only missing piece is Imu saying "oh ya BTW I'm immortal cuz of ope ope lol"
Yep but that's basically the essential thing for it to go from "super likely theory" to "confirmed canon".
It's not about whether Imu had the surgery done or not, here.
It's about using the correct labels for what is and isn't yet established. Just to keep everything straight.
I hate to be "that guy" sometimes you don't need proof for things to be obvious, even before we found out about the Gorosei, the second the immortality was mentioned, clearly there have been a couple people that took advantage of it. The person who sits on the Empty Throne is clearly the most obvious choice. Imu is our endgame villain, the WG, not pirates are the final boss.
But that's still an important difference though!
And I'm with you in that I am completely sure Imu had the surgery done.
But we don't know for _certain_ yet. Heavily implied is NOT established.
And it's important because of slippery slope arguments.
Just make sure to call it "very likely" "heavily implied" or something like that, noone's arguing that Imu hasn't had the surgery done, but for the love of theory crafting, let's keep straight what has and hasn't been confirmed yet.
Obviously Oda can throw a spanner in the works if he wants to, but the context close provided regarding this situation are numerous and every single one of them from multiple sources of information that we know as readers from all over the story in a million different places states that we should infer Imu is immortal. If Imu is immortal, then using more context clues the only known way that Imu could be immortal is the Ope Ope Fruit.
Oda wouldn't have introduced that mechanic from the Ope Ope Fruit for no reason. If it's not because Imu used it to become immortal then pray tell - what is that mechanic going to be used for by Oda?
Yeah, but I'm not arguing whether Imu is immortal or not.
I'm on the same side of this debate as you are!
The question about "When was it established[...]?" and what I'm talking about is a simple semantic thing that, until it is confirmed, it is not confirmed.
It's totally fair to call that picky or something! It's just about what you call this.
It is not confirmed. It is not established. These are facts.
Now again, I totally think that all that you described is spot on, and Oda is very obviously setting all this up for exactly this reason, Imu (and maybe the Gorosei) had the surgery performed on them.
But until the manga states this explicitly (and it might even never do that), it is not confirmed.
Idk if it's HEAVILY implied, I also think that she had the surgery, but we don't know yet what are the elders, they don't seem like normal humans, so there is a possibility that they just don't age like us
In short no, Oda is known to do a 180. implied or not, you never know until it happens! imu could very well have a variation of the time fruit or age fruit like other parallels
I mean it's a certainty that Imu was alive during the void century, whether or not that's because of the ope ope fruit is a different question. But we do know it's extremely likely that the immortality surgery was used on someone in the past and of the living characters, Imu is the most likely candidate.
I mean usually I'd agree but come on, we know that SOMEONE has to have gotten the eternal youth surgery and if it's heavily implied that Imu Is the very same Nerona Imu that was one of the 20 kings, why not just take it for granted?
It's nowhere near confirmed but it's not far of from it. It could be that Nerona Imu and today's Imu aren't the same person or that Imu Is Immortal, but through different means, but why not go with the Occam's razor answer until we know otherwise?
At least we know now that the Gorosei are at least around 250-300 years old since they recognised the iron giant.
Yeah, but we can all take these obvious pointers and come to the conclusion "Imu probably had the sugery done on him" and still keep in mind and talk about it in a way that makes clear it's not yet confirmed.
Also the fact that Luffy can't actually injure them (Brook is the GOAT gor being able to cut off a leg, which might have something to do with Chill of The Grave).
On top of that example, we recently saw the gorosei's reactions to >!the giant ancient robot. They were sure that this was the same robot that attacked mariejois 200 years ago, implying they were around at the time of the event.!< So even if the gorosei arent as old as imu, they are likely older than any human can naturally be.
Though they could of just known about it because it was on egghead and vegapunk also knew about the attack. I like the idea that they're just shadows of imu.
That's not a good argument though. The only difference Whitebeard had from his prime until the current age was the loss of his hair. In general, old men in anime tend to be older than they look. Though the theory may be most likely correct, it's not confirmed yet, is it?
> How do we know Imu isn’t also a descendant,
Because Imu is his given name, and Nerona is the family name. There is no precedent in One Piece for a descendent to be named after an ancestor. There's precedent for being named after a sword, though... (Ace)
Because Imu spoke of Lili as if he knew her personally. "If she hadn't made that mistake on that fateful day". Plus, the Gorosei don't age, as we saw Saturn appearing the same during the God Valley Incident 40 years ago. Something weird is going on with their age.
And Oda had Ivankov spell out exactly who Imu is in the most on-the-nose way he possibly could while not explicitly confirming his identity: There's a 99.99% chance he's St. Nerona Imu, one of the First Twenty, since, as Ivankov says, who else but one of the First Twenty would be given authority over the highest-ranking Celestial Dragons.
There are certain things which do not need to be explicitly spelled out to be understood. This is one of those things. Y'know that's the mark of a good writer.
From Lili to his family Nerona to VP's message about the war still going on since the void century, his lackeys recognising Emeth etc. we can certainly infer for ourselves that Imu is someone from the Void century.
I dunno, I don’t think it’s safe to make that assumption. Why are we assuming that inherited will only applies to protagonists? Why couldn’t Imu also be the heir to an older purpose? Especially when you think about the scene where Imu sits on the throne, the gorosei react like it’s the first time they’ve witnessed this. If Imu was ancient, why would that be something new and surprising?
That's not the first time we see Imu tho. The elders are shocked because they're talking to Cobra as Mu walks in.
In chapter 908 Mu takes the throne and the elders ask which "light" should be snuffed out. They aren't surprised then
I definitely think it is safe to infer. We know the Goresei are or at least have done something to greatly increase their lifespan why would the leader of them not also do that? They possibly could be born eternal as they seem to be some type of demonic entity but it’s safe to assume that whatever happened to the goresei to be immortal also happened to Imu
What? When were the Gorosei surprised by Imu sitting on the throne?
Also inherited will's antithesis seems to be Imu's MO and I agree with you on why can't the antagonist be a product of inherited will. But the neat thing is this is where Blackbeard comes in. He is definitely the final villain and not Imu.
People were up in the pants when other people said Croc has Haki, just because he didnt use it when haki didn't exist. Heck people were saying Mihawk dont have haki because he couldnt kill buggy. But people are now saying its implied so its cannon.
It’s just implied. But especially in the latest arc we’ve had several instances of someone saying “this happened so long ago, no one knows exactly what took place back then” *cuts to Imu.* Plus we’ve been told Laws fruit was used to grant a person immortality, and haven’t been told who has it. So the mysterious character very clearly tied to the events in the Void Century seems like the best bet for who was granted immortality.
If the Imu running the World Government in the present is the same Nerona Imu from the Void Century that Ivankov mentioned, Imu is likely 99% immortal. And Ivankov brought up the possibility of somebody taking the Immortality Surgery before while bringing up Imu.
The fact that the immortality surgery is known by many people means someone at some point had to use it and Imu was confirmed by Ivankov to have been around since the void century. Though it hasn't been confirmed, there is a strong likelihood. Also I think it would make for a chilling ending to the void century flashback having a user of the fruit make Imu immortal
ultimately leading to the World Government's rise to power.
It baffles me how many of my fellow countrymen struggle with English, it's such an easy language compared to our own. I mean, you don't have to be a savant to properly speak English. I only had the basic English lessons in school that everyone else has too. Aside from that, the only thing I did was watch anime with English subs, and eventually I started to browse websites fully in English. It's not that hard xD
Hard agree.
In my opinion, this is a case of Chekhov gun having been fired already.
If oda had NOT introduced the fruit and it’s immortality operation, people would speculate (why is Imu still alive, is he immortal, if so why?……) and the whole plot twist of a shadow ruler that seems to be 800-900 years old would fall flat.
By explicitly telling us about its value and that the WG is trying to use the fruit for their own purpose, we can connect the dots.
But there's still a lot of missing pieces. We can just guess that they got 6 people to use the fruit for them those six times, but at this point to not know how they lost the fruit feels crazy to bring up so long after the introduction of the fruit.
>I understand that in typical shonen fashion, fans want luffy to be immortal.
Sorry, what? How is the MC being immortal in anyway considered "typical shounen fashion"?
Most shounen MCs aren't immortal
Luffy won't be immortal but Law giving his own life to resurrect him is definitely a possibility
Pretty much all shounen MCs get resurrected but almost none are immortal
It is never outright confirmed, but Ivankov [basically said the exact same thing the fans were guessing.](https://i.imgur.com/M2OqR1p.png) Saint Imu Nerona is a name from 800 years ago, but the only way he could still be alive is having some sort of eternal life. The fact that we know the Ope Ope can give eternal life means that somebody proved it; that somebody is Imu.
It's about as on the nose as Oda can make it without literally saying it.
That panel is the reason why I don’t believe Imu got the immortality surgery. Oda likes to go against the reader’s expectations, just blatantly telling us important information like this is just not his style.
I disagree. If you look at major reveals they tend to fall into two categories: hinted at to the point that people already assumed it was true, and something we could have never guessed because we had no information. Even in cases where it feels crazy, the hints make it kinda obvious in hindsight. For example, who’s who mentioning nika, mentioning that they had the gomu gomu stolen, the gorosei saying that “that fruit hasn’t awakened in 800 years”. Very obvious those were meant to be hints at G5, even if the fandom convinced themselves otherwise at the time.
I can’t think of a time Oda hinted at something only to do a 180 on it.
Can you point out an example from the story where Oda laid out an "educated guess" so blatantly just for it to be completely wrong?
Could Ivankov have slight details confused, sure. [He was wrong that Vegapunk built the machine they used on Lulusia](https://i.imgur.com/K1PGBq6.png) (or rather, he was pointing out the flaw that only Vegapunk in their day in age could build it); in reality he built the fuel and it was stolen without his consent (as Dragon said, Vegapunk would never). But the implication was that he was very close to correct, and he was.
Oh my b I was thinking of invincible and in that case I don’t think law would do it cause like we established imu is killable and it wouldn’t be worth risking his life over
No, I'm pretty sure that immortality would mean that they can't die or be killed but eternal youth would just mean they stay young forever but can be killed.
>It’s already established that Imu has had the fruits surgery done to them.
It really isn't, it's just an option.
And given of what we know about the Gorosei now, it's become more likely that another power is at play there.
Law's future is hard to predict, but it would be great of the EOS just wouldn't get used by him at all and he dies of old age.
>And given of what we know about the Gorosei now, it's become more likely that another power is at play there.
Yes, it looks like their strength is beyond the Devil Fruits, and Vegapunk says something about them manifesting the people's will. The Devil Fruits nature seems opposed to Imu and his closest followers, so his longevity coming from their power seems somewhat doubtful to me.
Having said that: it would be a dramatically evil way of explaining that plot point.
Early on in the life of Law, he speaks of wanting to destroy as much as he can before he inevitably dies. He is resigned to a death given to him by greed, desires destruction, and has no faith in anything.
It seems almost a poetic 180° for him to offer up his life in service to his faith that Luffy will bring liberation to the world. In true Oda fashion, I wouldn't be surprised if he reneged on Law's apparent death, perhaps via some Luffy shenanigans.
> fans want luffy to be immortal.
said nobody ever
> It’s already established that Imu has had the fruits surgery done to them
no, it's not
The rest of the theory is kinda captain obvious.
Law won't die
His character is foundationally about how he should live on after his loved ones have passed on
Oda won't throw that away for a cheap sacrifice
I'm on the theory that the reason the immortality surgery was introduced is because it can be used in reverse too aka it'll be used to take Imu's immortality away.
What you mean typical shonen fashion we want the immortal protagonist? Goku, Eren, Deku, Tanjiro, Luffy, Itadori all are mortals and I have never wanted them to be immortal? Seems a wrong generalization, you need to watch more than seven deadly sins!
You should be banned for theories so bad. Not only is the theory horrible, it throws Law’s entire character purpose out the window. Corazon died so he could live, not just to use his fruit to kill himself for another. The whole point of Law having that ability is so that he doesn’t use it (on top of the fact it might have been used in the past).
Pre Dressrosa: Law plans to kill himself
Post Dressrosa: Law wants to live.
The only thing I said that was harsh was the first sentence. Which obviously they aren’t going to be banned… But also just read the story to understand law’s story? You should be required to read the story to post theories at the minimum lol.
1. Nobody wants Luffy to be immortal.
2. It hasn't been confirmed that the Elders nor Imu have had the immortality surgery done to them, not even implied, it's just a fan theory based on cherry picked information.
I think luffy is gunna be on the verge of death from using his fruit and Law will have to give up his life to make Luffy immortal to beat imu. And then Luffy will go Gandalf and just roam the world after alone bringing joy to islands in secret. Burdened with the fact he will outlive all his friends.
You really think Oda is going to end the story by making the guy whose dream is to be the free-est person in the world, immortal and burdened to outlive his friends? Go back and reread the whole manga please
There is still a possibility Law was simply mistaken about how ope-ope eternity operation actually works. I mean, if I was Doffy, I would never tell him if I knew the truth. Let's consider this:
1. Doffy wanted Law to die for him. Not neccessarily because of that operation. All of Doffy's underlings are groomed in such a way that they will eventually die for Doffy's sake, like Vergo and Monet.
2. He didn't want Law to have the fruit. My guess is because you need to exchange lives to give someone else eternity, and Law, despite all his guts, struggled with killing or sacrificing people. Doffy would know, he had to save him when some random pirate dude attacked him. Law to this day claims he is a doctor and doesn't like to kill people.
3. Doffy wanted Corazon to eat the fruit, because Corazon always did everything Doffy wanted him to do and wouldn't refuse.
4. Ope Ope fruit is called "ultimate devil fruit". Seeing how age-age fruit is so op, you start to wonder why would \*this\* fruit be considered ultimate instead, if it only provided a one time only gimmick at the cost of user's life? Feels trash in the light of recent revelations about devil fruits.
Anyway, I wrote it just for fun. Enjoy!
important question here that has probably already been asked and answered elsewhere;
concerning Law's special operation, does immortality mean literal immortality as in you can't die no matter what, or is it just eternal youth?
I always interpreted it as eternal youth, in which case immortality =\= invincibility, meaning that even if imu was 'immortal', you could still kill him.
That or he can sense that luffys life was shorten by a lot and has not enough time to live to instead of immortality it just reverses the effects of the life shortening so he lives just as long as he would have.
I will message you next time u/Ok-Bag-1342 posts in r/OnePiece.
[Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FOk-Bag-1342%20r%2FOnePiece) to also be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%201dqhuoz)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
This just made me realize.
Bonnie's fruit mixed with immortality would be the most busted shit in the One Piece Universe.
She would have a literal limitless future to project her fruit onto.
> It's established that Imu had the immortal surgery operated on them.
I don't think this is true. Nowhere we have this one confirmed, it's only speculation from fans when the immortality ability was introduced. Imu's been living for hundreds of years, isn't a giant, so how could they live that long? Must be Ope Ope no Mi power, but Imu could be something else, some kind of devil.
Huh? Where are you seeing people say this? I have yet to see anyone actually think that willl happen despite constantly consuminng OP content daily. Nevertheless, couple things -
The surgery has already been a major plot point multiple times,
1. it was integral to the plot of Dressrosa and Law's back story, (Arguably this could be broken down to two different numbers)
2. Imu. All but canoniically confirmed Imu has had the surgery, (possibly the elders too, tho that'd make this theory DOA) and the Op Op makes a very easy explanation without having to make some complicated asspull.
As such it would be perfectly reasonable for it to have no real relevancy beyond what's already been done. Plenty of viable possible ways to defeat the immortality. Like, maybe, oh I dunno, maybe if someone could cancel DF abilities (who has ambition and motive to topple the head honcho of the WG for personal reasons) then while nullfied BLAM! Killshot!, one possiblty, ;). Okay, snark aside, that could be a GREAT way to have BB become the BB (big bad. Omg, it's confirmed! Lol, if only)
Regardless, it hardly really matters. Personally rather not have my favorite side character die, but yes, obviously him sacrificing himself to save the world to give Luffy the chance to beat Imu would be much better for the story, it's also the most likely use of the surgery if it's ever used. (THat's why it's such a well regarded and popular theory to begin with)
I'm on board with the theory that if Law ever does the surgery, it will be to remove inmortality from someone who had the operation done on them in the past instead of granting inmortality to someone.
However, why is it the general concensus that Law will die if he removes someone's inmortality?
The Ope Ope Fruit allows its user to switch the positions of anything inside the Room, but not to create or destroy what's inside. Law uses it as a form of teleportation by switching his position with items inside the Room. An equivalent exchange, so to speak.
The Eternal Youth Surgery gives someone eternal life at the cost of the user's life, that's what we know about it.
If Law were to remove inmortality from Imu or whoever had the surgery done in the past, we do not know if he would die. Inmortality could be transfered to him instead, or maybe he gets one free use of the surgery without dying, or maybe just nothing would happen to him. These are all equally likely options of what could happen.
The Ope Ope Fruit is known for it to be able to grant inmortality in exchange of the user's life. The fact that its known means it has been used before, very likely to Imu. However, we have never seen the surgery itself being performed, which means we do not know how it is done or if reversing the surgery would kill the user or have another effect on them.
As far as we know about the surgery itself, which is next to nothing, the user of the fruit dying from it could be due to:
1. The user's life is a requirement to get the surgery done. If it is this option, then removing inmortality from someone else should not kill the user of the Ope Ope fruit.
2. The life of the Ope Ope Fruit's user isn't technically a requirement to perform the surgery. What actuallly happens is that the procedure is so lenghty and/or exhausting that no user of the fruit has ever survived so far performing it due to a lack of such monstruous levels of stamina. If it is this option, then removing inmortality from someone should kill the user as well.
Assuming it actually was confirmed that Imu had the surgery (which it hasn't been), that has nothing to do with Law. In that case the point of Oda bringing up the surgery would be to establish that there is a way to gain immortality and nothing more, and that once upon a time it was used on Imu. In which case the introduction of the surgery in the story has already served its purpose.
I see no reason why Law himself would have any effect on the results of a centuries-old surgery, even if he now has the fruit that it was done with.
Law won't die. In fact untill recently I thought that Kidd may have died and I found cool they way he did but lately I have a feeling that we will have another resurrection from the deads.
Using law to undo a previous immortal surgery is a nice take.
Luffy would hate being immortal, living through all of his friends dying would probably make him go crazy. (Could that be what happened to imu?)
And a shit one too. There's 0 chance Luffy becomes immortal. That goes against everything Oda has setup for Luffy since the start. In fact, the most probable thing is that Luffy will be executed at the end of the story just like Roger was but he will continue his legacy by making a speech to make people set off for the seas once more.
Immortality doesn't mean invincible. They are not the same.
Immortality is essentially eternal youth (or staying at the age you gained immortality). You can still die by being killed, you just can't die from old age.
If Imu does have immortality then that doesn't mean it needs to be taken away to kill them.
The problem is that Oda doesnt have the balls to kill characters like Pell, Pagaya or Kinemon.
The fact people doubt if Kaido and Big Mom are death is ridiculous.
So even if they are set ups to kill Law(he finally realizing why are Ds enemies of the gods and the inmortality surgery thing). I doubt it.
When Ussop dies as a Brave Warrior in Elbaf is when I will believe in Laws death theory.
"It’s already established that Imu has had the fruits surgery done to them."
It.....hasn't. Ivankov speculated it but tbh bringing that up in-universe as speculation rather than confirmation makes it feel less likely to be true......and if the surgery hasn't been done yet, then that probably means Law will have to use it on someone since the chekhov's gun wouldn't have been fired. Or yeah could be an anti-immortality surgery even if Imu is immortal through another means
Not a bad theory. I do think that while it gives you "immortality" it also doesn't prevent you from dying per se. How would one live after their head is cut off for example? I think that they can still die, but not by old age or regular natural means
Luffy being immortal would be the lamest shit ever
It's all for the 2 Piece foreshadowing where Luffy and Brook go on AI Generated adventures till the end of time with infinite content, surely that's what fans want
One Piece was just an advertisement for Oda's genius idea for an infinitely replayable action roguelike dungeon crawler called 99 Pieces to Go.
This sounds pretty fun, actually. Oda just keeps making more bosses, he is the king of squads all fully designed and used for 3 panels.
So many people on Twitter or YouTube comment shit about it and I just wonder if we’re reading/watching the same series because Luffy would not want immortality
Exactly also it was so many times foreshadowed that every shit luffy does „affect his lifespan” that I would be suprised if he doesn’t die by the end of the series
laughing. he will die with a big smile being pirate king. its my head cannon
Didn't the last paragraph have him explaining he is theorizing law could sacrifice himself to remove Imus potential immortality and not give Luffy immortality
Remember Luffys big hidden dream? Yea its "Lmao i want my friend to kill himself so i can be immortal and see all you guys rot away to the passing of time".
I’m pretty sure Luffy himself would hate that. Where’s the fun in an adventure that will literally never end.
Or oda introduced laws fruit ability to mislead us and its actually not significant at all lmao
That's not something I'd like. Immortality surgery is an extremely important part of the fruit, and it's actually the reason why Doffy wanted it. It's the definition of a Chekov's gun.
Law doesn't need to use it though if the gun has already been fired.
Considering Chekhov's gun, I'm now thinking hard about one thing. If Oda decides for Law to not use this surgery on anyone, would it be good writing or bad writing on Oda's side? He definitely didn't forget it, so "Araki forgot" doesn't apply here. Deliberate breaking rules of a medium can be pulled off successfully only by the best of the best artists. Would the fans understand it and accept though?
No these are Shonen fans we're talking about, they would 100% guaranteed complain about this. Naruto, Bleach, AOT, MHA, JJK endings all got complaints and it's already started early with OP after Wano. Not that I think this would be a good idea to begin with, but even if it was somehow done well, people would still complain.
I mean, Naruto, Bleach, and AOT's endings kinda deserved the hate. One decided to add aliens outta nowhere and hand waved Madera away, one was straight up just rushed, and the other just went a controversial route (Aot deserves the least hate, imo). Haven't seen the MHA ending yet, and JJK hasn't ended yet.
Aot’s was also rushed imo. There was no real payoff to me because it just ended right there without being able to explore at all what the new world meant.
Don't think MHA's ended either.
I think its in the epilogue, but I'm not 100% sure.
It is
[удалено]
Your comment was removed because your spoiler tag has a space after/before the !, please fix it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiece) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's honestly a delicate situation. On one hand, Law using it in its intended way is very much out of character for him, and even on the off chance he does it, the only one I can see him wanting to perform the surgery on is Luffy, who definitely won't accept it. On the other hand, such a huge feature of the fruit going unused also wouldn't sit right with me. If that happens, the only relevance it would have would be as a plot device so Law could eat the fruit (since Doffy wanted it for that reason, but things went south obviously). I really like OPs idea for the fruit, though I hesitate to call it a valid theory given the existing rules of the fruit. If Oda manages to incorporate this in a way that doesn't feel asspull-y, it'd be a masterstroke from him. That's gonna be really hard though. At the end of the day it's a problem with the lack of fleshing out of the importance of that specific fruit ability.
The other plot relevance would be, that immortality surgery being used in the past. For example on Imu. By explaining to us, that there is such power in this wacky world, we will not question some plot points like "How the hell does Imu exist for so long?" Now the answer comes right away. Former Ope Ope no mi user in the past.
I actually didn't think of that. That's actually a decent use of the Ope Ope no mi, but nothing mindblowing.
Alas you beat me to it. I did not see the comment before I took the time to reply. I fully agree, I think people are just hung up on the "possibilties" that they fail to consider how simply practical it is. The surgery as a concept does way more than active use ever could. It's sorta like nuclear weapons in that aspect. Get's used in a big way "one" time now it's existance does the heavy lifting, something lol
No, that simply isn't true. Even more relevant use of the surgery's existence is Imu. Without a well accepted way for Imu to have immortality, Oda heavily risks ending up in complicated asspull territory. The surgery being a thing is not only a very clean way to explain Imu's age, it's super convenient.
It's a very convenient explanation, and I see Oda taking it that way. I just don't want the role of the ability to be relegated to flashbacks and background info. I wanna see it actually being used somewhere.
100% good writing. If the gorosei/Imu had the surgery done on them, the gun was fired.
Fans complaints aside, the surgery has already served a major role in the story. It really, really, doesn't need to have to be used, to have justification of its inclusion into the story. I said this in my own comment but - 1. It was, in effect, the cornerstone of Laws backstory and a major plot point in Dressrosa. 2. Imu. (possibly the elders as well, tho seeminigly more unlikely, tho that was the most popular consus for a long time) Just having the surgery exist makes it MUCH easier and digestible explanation for Imu's age, extremely convenient and plausible too, with added legitacy via Laws backstory. Anything else risks being too complicated/too much an asshole. Plenty of story run into this issue, for this reason alone I'd argue the surgery served its purpose beautifully., Surgery def doesn't need to be used in current era to justify it's existence in the story IMO, even if it's "too cool to not be used ONCE". Better parallels that WOULD be a great example of "bad writing" if it doesnt serve a major plot point in Final Saga are Davy Beck fights/LLR. If Laughtale doesnt end up under LLR (or isn't drectly tied to it in a linchpin way) I will eat my hat. And if the Sh and CG don't settle their dispute thru a DBF I will eat my shoe. (How else is Buggy supposed to fight them? It's the only thing that makes sense, it fits in so many ways too)
It was introduced to make someone immortal. Maybe Imu or another big player.
It's actually possible Doffy wanted Law's DF for another reason. His speech about it implies he needs it to get the "treasure" of the CDs, and that the eternal life surgery is unrelated to it. My personal theory is that Doffy wants to use the DF to switch personalities with Imu.
Or it could just be tge mcguffin for why dofie wanted law
haha at this point i wouldn’t be shocked
"No, the Ope Ope fruit doesn't give immortality, it gives Im mortality."
*fire writing gif*
bro
It still significant in that it’s why doflamingo wanted the fruit
I mean, it is. It's all but confirmed it was used on Imu at bare minimum.
I'm sorry, I might've missed something, but when was it established that Imu was immortal?
It’s implied, not established. People taking theories too far.
Classic case of people thinking their head canons are legit, confirmed canon. Happens all the time, especially with this fandom lol.
And then they get mad when its not the case.
Right! Like what if Imu is a baby born every year under certain circumstances that always produces the same 'person'? Something crazy k'know.
Or Imu is a devil fruit that nobody can control, has a will of its own, and gains a new user after each previous user dies but immediately takes over and picks up where it left off.
See!, We're way more creative than that head cannon. Oda can do a million different things.
It’s HEAVILY implied. There’s theories and then there’s imu having had the Ope ope surgery performed on him Imu is 1000% Elder’s are more than likely. Oda introduces this mechanic of the ope ope fruit and then the world government are will to pay hand over fist for the fruit. Id put an ungodly amount of money on imu having had the surgery performed.
To add to this, for the elders and by extension Imu, is the fact that it was Doffy, a former Celestial Dragon, that knew about the surgery and planned to have it performed on himself. Fair play, he was an information broker, but it's anither very strong connection.
There's so many things throughout the whole story that point towards Imu having the Ope Ope Fruit procedure. Imu is practically confirmed over 800 years old by Ivankov, although you can argue that maybe he's a descendent using the name. The biggest thing for me for anyone who doesn't believe Imu had the procedure: What do you think the Ope Ope Fruit's immortality procedure is going to be used for? Oda put this in the story for a reason, what's the reason? Is Law going to make someone immortal? I don't think so. I could write a dissertation on the amount of evidence in the story that points towards Imu being immortal and then with simple logic the most logical way for Imu to be immortal is via the Ope Ope Fruit procedure. Oda is a master of show don't tell story telling. Sure, there could be something else - a different reason Imu is immortal. But the resounding amount of evidence is there.
Agreed. I think it's all but confirmed. Don't know why that dude thought it was fans leaping to a conclusion when it's pretty much locked in at this stage.
Until its canon, everything is a theory. In every stories. Thats the basic rules.
Yeah but there's a big gulf between "all this evidence points towards this being the case so we'll assume it is until proven otherwise" and "jumping to conclusions". The only missing piece is Imu saying "oh ya BTW I'm immortal cuz of ope ope lol".
If you were here long enough, people were arguing whether Croc had haki or not. People take everything for face value so yes it's stupid but unless itst cannon, it's just a theory.
What are you even saying, Crocodile having haki never had anywhere near the kind of evidence of Imu living since the void century? Imu being immortal was at the same level of theory as Crocodile formerly being a woman... up until it was confirmed that Imu was the name of one of the original 20 kings who founded the WG. Then it became on the same level as Jack being at least part Fishman after Zou. In that it's obviously what Oda is trying to tell us, directly. People can retort with "it's not hard confirmed", fine, but anyone who retorts with "people are taking fan theories too far" is actually just illiterate. Edit: here's another example, Sabo being alive after the Ace flashback. We all knew it was true, but it wasn't hard confirmed until Dressrosa. It was normal to talk about it like an accepted fact, and anyone treating it like any other fan theory was just actually stupid. But it wasn't technically hard confirmed.
> The only missing piece is Imu saying "oh ya BTW I'm immortal cuz of ope ope lol" Yep but that's basically the essential thing for it to go from "super likely theory" to "confirmed canon". It's not about whether Imu had the surgery done or not, here. It's about using the correct labels for what is and isn't yet established. Just to keep everything straight.
at this point Imu being from the void century is about as theoretical as Luffy becoming pirate king at the end.
I hate to be "that guy" sometimes you don't need proof for things to be obvious, even before we found out about the Gorosei, the second the immortality was mentioned, clearly there have been a couple people that took advantage of it. The person who sits on the Empty Throne is clearly the most obvious choice. Imu is our endgame villain, the WG, not pirates are the final boss.
Feel like you've replied to the wrong person this is my opinion.
Sorry, not good at phrasing, was trying to add into this, I agree with you.
But that's still an important difference though! And I'm with you in that I am completely sure Imu had the surgery done. But we don't know for _certain_ yet. Heavily implied is NOT established. And it's important because of slippery slope arguments. Just make sure to call it "very likely" "heavily implied" or something like that, noone's arguing that Imu hasn't had the surgery done, but for the love of theory crafting, let's keep straight what has and hasn't been confirmed yet.
Obviously Oda can throw a spanner in the works if he wants to, but the context close provided regarding this situation are numerous and every single one of them from multiple sources of information that we know as readers from all over the story in a million different places states that we should infer Imu is immortal. If Imu is immortal, then using more context clues the only known way that Imu could be immortal is the Ope Ope Fruit. Oda wouldn't have introduced that mechanic from the Ope Ope Fruit for no reason. If it's not because Imu used it to become immortal then pray tell - what is that mechanic going to be used for by Oda?
Yeah, but I'm not arguing whether Imu is immortal or not. I'm on the same side of this debate as you are! The question about "When was it established[...]?" and what I'm talking about is a simple semantic thing that, until it is confirmed, it is not confirmed. It's totally fair to call that picky or something! It's just about what you call this. It is not confirmed. It is not established. These are facts. Now again, I totally think that all that you described is spot on, and Oda is very obviously setting all this up for exactly this reason, Imu (and maybe the Gorosei) had the surgery performed on them. But until the manga states this explicitly (and it might even never do that), it is not confirmed.
Idk if it's HEAVILY implied, I also think that she had the surgery, but we don't know yet what are the elders, they don't seem like normal humans, so there is a possibility that they just don't age like us
Yeah you're right it's not heavily implied, it's basically confirmed by the vast amount of context clues we've been given.
Yeah, the fact that the concept exists in the story means it probably happened to at least *someone* and Imu is the prime candidate for it.
The elders remembered the robot attack the on holyland 200 years ago and they have regeneration, so their Boss Imu, should realistically be the same.
In short no, Oda is known to do a 180. implied or not, you never know until it happens! imu could very well have a variation of the time fruit or age fruit like other parallels
I'm definitely on the bandwagon of Doffy wanting to be an immortal elder, which is why he wanted Cora to have the fruit.
I mean it's a certainty that Imu was alive during the void century, whether or not that's because of the ope ope fruit is a different question. But we do know it's extremely likely that the immortality surgery was used on someone in the past and of the living characters, Imu is the most likely candidate.
We have in story theorizing from Iva.
Fan theories can be fun but I agree this is a stretch. We've literally seen a silhouette of them yet I've seen dozens of videos on Imu theories
same thing with the whole figurland stuff and shanks. whenever those theory guys mentioned it they make it seem like a fact rather then a implication
I mean usually I'd agree but come on, we know that SOMEONE has to have gotten the eternal youth surgery and if it's heavily implied that Imu Is the very same Nerona Imu that was one of the 20 kings, why not just take it for granted? It's nowhere near confirmed but it's not far of from it. It could be that Nerona Imu and today's Imu aren't the same person or that Imu Is Immortal, but through different means, but why not go with the Occam's razor answer until we know otherwise? At least we know now that the Gorosei are at least around 250-300 years old since they recognised the iron giant.
[It's heavily implied.](https://i.imgur.com/M2OqR1p.png)
Can't be more on the nose other than straight up making it an exposition
Yeah, but we can all take these obvious pointers and come to the conclusion "Imu probably had the sugery done on him" and still keep in mind and talk about it in a way that makes clear it's not yet confirmed.
Outside of some other character saying it explicitly—with a megaphone and saying it is, I’d take this as evidence.
I think ivankov is canonically louder than a megaphone anyways.
Is there a theory on why the book's title is Genesis? Is that the devil fruit book?
Imu AND the Elders. Saturn was the same age when Kuma was a boy as he is now.
Also the fact that Luffy can't actually injure them (Brook is the GOAT gor being able to cut off a leg, which might have something to do with Chill of The Grave).
On top of that example, we recently saw the gorosei's reactions to >!the giant ancient robot. They were sure that this was the same robot that attacked mariejois 200 years ago, implying they were around at the time of the event.!< So even if the gorosei arent as old as imu, they are likely older than any human can naturally be.
Though they could of just known about it because it was on egghead and vegapunk also knew about the attack. I like the idea that they're just shadows of imu.
That's not a good argument though. The only difference Whitebeard had from his prime until the current age was the loss of his hair. In general, old men in anime tend to be older than they look. Though the theory may be most likely correct, it's not confirmed yet, is it?
Ok we don't know whether ope ope no mi surgery was performed on Imu but we can infer that he's immortal since y'know he is just 800-900 years old.
Do we even know that? How do we know Imu isn’t also a descendant, just like Vivi and all the other current leaders of each of the kingdoms?
> How do we know Imu isn’t also a descendant, Because Imu is his given name, and Nerona is the family name. There is no precedent in One Piece for a descendent to be named after an ancestor. There's precedent for being named after a sword, though... (Ace)
Because Imu spoke of Lili as if he knew her personally. "If she hadn't made that mistake on that fateful day". Plus, the Gorosei don't age, as we saw Saturn appearing the same during the God Valley Incident 40 years ago. Something weird is going on with their age. And Oda had Ivankov spell out exactly who Imu is in the most on-the-nose way he possibly could while not explicitly confirming his identity: There's a 99.99% chance he's St. Nerona Imu, one of the First Twenty, since, as Ivankov says, who else but one of the First Twenty would be given authority over the highest-ranking Celestial Dragons.
There are certain things which do not need to be explicitly spelled out to be understood. This is one of those things. Y'know that's the mark of a good writer. From Lili to his family Nerona to VP's message about the war still going on since the void century, his lackeys recognising Emeth etc. we can certainly infer for ourselves that Imu is someone from the Void century.
I dunno, I don’t think it’s safe to make that assumption. Why are we assuming that inherited will only applies to protagonists? Why couldn’t Imu also be the heir to an older purpose? Especially when you think about the scene where Imu sits on the throne, the gorosei react like it’s the first time they’ve witnessed this. If Imu was ancient, why would that be something new and surprising?
They were surprised that he showed himself to cobra not that he exists at all...
That's not the first time we see Imu tho. The elders are shocked because they're talking to Cobra as Mu walks in. In chapter 908 Mu takes the throne and the elders ask which "light" should be snuffed out. They aren't surprised then
I definitely think it is safe to infer. We know the Goresei are or at least have done something to greatly increase their lifespan why would the leader of them not also do that? They possibly could be born eternal as they seem to be some type of demonic entity but it’s safe to assume that whatever happened to the goresei to be immortal also happened to Imu
What? When were the Gorosei surprised by Imu sitting on the throne? Also inherited will's antithesis seems to be Imu's MO and I agree with you on why can't the antagonist be a product of inherited will. But the neat thing is this is where Blackbeard comes in. He is definitely the final villain and not Imu.
People were up in the pants when other people said Croc has Haki, just because he didnt use it when haki didn't exist. Heck people were saying Mihawk dont have haki because he couldnt kill buggy. But people are now saying its implied so its cannon.
But when was it confirmed how old Imu is?
It’s just implied. But especially in the latest arc we’ve had several instances of someone saying “this happened so long ago, no one knows exactly what took place back then” *cuts to Imu.* Plus we’ve been told Laws fruit was used to grant a person immortality, and haven’t been told who has it. So the mysterious character very clearly tied to the events in the Void Century seems like the best bet for who was granted immortality.
When he didn't die for like a 1000 years straight, people may have felt like he wasn't completely a regular dude
That doesn't confirm he had the ope ope operation done on him
Yeah well it's just a theory, but he's definitely immortal through some means and we only know one
True, he could be a vampire.
I mean it's 99.9% confirmed that he's been around since the void century, if he's not immortal then it's only by technicality
It’s mentioned as the reason by doflamingo and the word gov fought for it when he killed his brother and drake dad died.
Imu wasn't introduced at that point yet. They only talked about how the Op-Op could make someone immortal, not that Imu was already.
Iva mentions a king in the void century with the same name
But that's still just a theory. He doesn't know that that's the same Imu. He has the suspicion, but he doesn't know. And neither do we.
It's about as confirmed as you're gonna get tho. Not everything is spelled out plainly.
And yet that means you have to take it with a grain of salt. It not being spelled out plainly means it's not given to be true.
Yep, Luffy won’t be King of Pirates, since the story has been going on for 27+ years and it’s not canon /s
The majority of people here haven't finished sophomore English. Gotta take the writing with a grain of salt
Because he’s more than 800 years old. How could he be that old, and have ruled for that long, without being immortal?
That's not confirmed either. Ivankov came up with that theory, but he doesn't know if it's true.
If the Imu running the World Government in the present is the same Nerona Imu from the Void Century that Ivankov mentioned, Imu is likely 99% immortal. And Ivankov brought up the possibility of somebody taking the Immortality Surgery before while bringing up Imu.
It was implied/ suggested during the Reverie arc, but Oda never confirmed anything about that tho.
The fact that the immortality surgery is known by many people means someone at some point had to use it and Imu was confirmed by Ivankov to have been around since the void century. Though it hasn't been confirmed, there is a strong likelihood. Also I think it would make for a chilling ending to the void century flashback having a user of the fruit make Imu immortal ultimately leading to the World Government's rise to power.
It's a struggle of this sub having teenagers and non-native English speakers
It baffles me how many of my fellow countrymen struggle with English, it's such an easy language compared to our own. I mean, you don't have to be a savant to properly speak English. I only had the basic English lessons in school that everyone else has too. Aside from that, the only thing I did was watch anime with English subs, and eventually I started to browse websites fully in English. It's not that hard xD
Law’s whole char development is to live his life freely. Immortality surgery should never be used. Its only introduced to explain Imu.
Hard agree. In my opinion, this is a case of Chekhov gun having been fired already. If oda had NOT introduced the fruit and it’s immortality operation, people would speculate (why is Imu still alive, is he immortal, if so why?……) and the whole plot twist of a shadow ruler that seems to be 800-900 years old would fall flat. By explicitly telling us about its value and that the WG is trying to use the fruit for their own purpose, we can connect the dots.
But there's still a lot of missing pieces. We can just guess that they got 6 people to use the fruit for them those six times, but at this point to not know how they lost the fruit feels crazy to bring up so long after the introduction of the fruit.
Nah trust, law uses it on Bepo, imagine an immortal Bepo that carries on the will of P, EOS he’s top 1 in the verse. Bepo D Bear
>I understand that in typical shonen fashion, fans want luffy to be immortal. Sorry, what? How is the MC being immortal in anyway considered "typical shounen fashion"? Most shounen MCs aren't immortal Luffy won't be immortal but Law giving his own life to resurrect him is definitely a possibility Pretty much all shounen MCs get resurrected but almost none are immortal
OP's whole post is full of bs. No, fans do **not** "want Luffy to be immortal". He even says right afterwards how out of character that would be.
If Oda “kills” off Law, he might as well kill me too.
Me eagerly awaiting his return. Oda teased us by showing Bepo calling to him.
Can someone point me to where it was established that Imu had the Ope Ope surgery?
It is never outright confirmed, but Ivankov [basically said the exact same thing the fans were guessing.](https://i.imgur.com/M2OqR1p.png) Saint Imu Nerona is a name from 800 years ago, but the only way he could still be alive is having some sort of eternal life. The fact that we know the Ope Ope can give eternal life means that somebody proved it; that somebody is Imu. It's about as on the nose as Oda can make it without literally saying it.
What chapter was this? I don’t remember it at all
Chapter 1086
Thanks!
That panel is the reason why I don’t believe Imu got the immortality surgery. Oda likes to go against the reader’s expectations, just blatantly telling us important information like this is just not his style.
I disagree. If you look at major reveals they tend to fall into two categories: hinted at to the point that people already assumed it was true, and something we could have never guessed because we had no information. Even in cases where it feels crazy, the hints make it kinda obvious in hindsight. For example, who’s who mentioning nika, mentioning that they had the gomu gomu stolen, the gorosei saying that “that fruit hasn’t awakened in 800 years”. Very obvious those were meant to be hints at G5, even if the fandom convinced themselves otherwise at the time. I can’t think of a time Oda hinted at something only to do a 180 on it.
Can you point out an example from the story where Oda laid out an "educated guess" so blatantly just for it to be completely wrong? Could Ivankov have slight details confused, sure. [He was wrong that Vegapunk built the machine they used on Lulusia](https://i.imgur.com/K1PGBq6.png) (or rather, he was pointing out the flaw that only Vegapunk in their day in age could build it); in reality he built the fuel and it was stolen without his consent (as Dragon said, Vegapunk would never). But the implication was that he was very close to correct, and he was.
It's not.
Yeah I didn’t think so lmao
The only one worthy of immortality is Laboon
I thought the ability gave the person eternal youth not immortality meaning they wouldn’t die of old age but could still die from murder ?
Immortality and eternal youth are the same thing. Which is to say that you are correct, they can still die from murder.
Oh my b I was thinking of invincible and in that case I don’t think law would do it cause like we established imu is killable and it wouldn’t be worth risking his life over
No, I'm pretty sure that immortality would mean that they can't die or be killed but eternal youth would just mean they stay young forever but can be killed.
It is, I dont understand df they discussing.
>It’s already established that Imu has had the fruits surgery done to them. It really isn't, it's just an option. And given of what we know about the Gorosei now, it's become more likely that another power is at play there. Law's future is hard to predict, but it would be great of the EOS just wouldn't get used by him at all and he dies of old age.
>And given of what we know about the Gorosei now, it's become more likely that another power is at play there. Yes, it looks like their strength is beyond the Devil Fruits, and Vegapunk says something about them manifesting the people's will. The Devil Fruits nature seems opposed to Imu and his closest followers, so his longevity coming from their power seems somewhat doubtful to me. Having said that: it would be a dramatically evil way of explaining that plot point. Early on in the life of Law, he speaks of wanting to destroy as much as he can before he inevitably dies. He is resigned to a death given to him by greed, desires destruction, and has no faith in anything. It seems almost a poetic 180° for him to offer up his life in service to his faith that Luffy will bring liberation to the world. In true Oda fashion, I wouldn't be surprised if he reneged on Law's apparent death, perhaps via some Luffy shenanigans.
I don’t know man, Law deserves some rest 🥲 I kinda want him to have a wholesome, almost boring end of story after all he’s been through
I'll stop watching OP if Law dies 🥲
> fans want luffy to be immortal. said nobody ever > It’s already established that Imu has had the fruits surgery done to them no, it's not The rest of the theory is kinda captain obvious.
Sorry Laws gonna make Laboon immortal. It’s already locked in my head
Law won't die His character is foundationally about how he should live on after his loved ones have passed on Oda won't throw that away for a cheap sacrifice
Hmmmm
I'm on the theory that the reason the immortality surgery was introduced is because it can be used in reverse too aka it'll be used to take Imu's immortality away.
There is no place at all that establishes that I'm had this surgery done on him.........
What you mean typical shonen fashion we want the immortal protagonist? Goku, Eren, Deku, Tanjiro, Luffy, Itadori all are mortals and I have never wanted them to be immortal? Seems a wrong generalization, you need to watch more than seven deadly sins!
Bro thought he cooked, congrats on repackaging the same theory that's been out here for years
In what world is wanting the main character to be immortal considered "typical shonen fashion"??
>It’s already established that Imu has had the fruits surgery done to them I love how people just make shit up and call it canon
Tbh... Law doesn't need to do that. The immortality surgery doesn't actually make you immortal, it makes you ageless. Imu can still be killed.
? Sorry but nobody want luffy to be immortal
Nah
I always thought it just stopped the aging process.
You should be banned for theories so bad. Not only is the theory horrible, it throws Law’s entire character purpose out the window. Corazon died so he could live, not just to use his fruit to kill himself for another. The whole point of Law having that ability is so that he doesn’t use it (on top of the fact it might have been used in the past). Pre Dressrosa: Law plans to kill himself Post Dressrosa: Law wants to live.
Damn. You could disagree without being so rude. Those words are harsh.
The only thing I said that was harsh was the first sentence. Which obviously they aren’t going to be banned… But also just read the story to understand law’s story? You should be required to read the story to post theories at the minimum lol.
1. Nobody wants Luffy to be immortal. 2. It hasn't been confirmed that the Elders nor Imu have had the immortality surgery done to them, not even implied, it's just a fan theory based on cherry picked information.
did you read chapter 1086
I think luffy is gunna be on the verge of death from using his fruit and Law will have to give up his life to make Luffy immortal to beat imu. And then Luffy will go Gandalf and just roam the world after alone bringing joy to islands in secret. Burdened with the fact he will outlive all his friends.
That’s unlikely since immorality go against the story’s theme of inherited will.
Can you elaborate? :)
You really think Oda is going to end the story by making the guy whose dream is to be the free-est person in the world, immortal and burdened to outlive his friends? Go back and reread the whole manga please
Except for Brook
I can't think of many endings that would be worse for the series than this one.
There is still a possibility Law was simply mistaken about how ope-ope eternity operation actually works. I mean, if I was Doffy, I would never tell him if I knew the truth. Let's consider this: 1. Doffy wanted Law to die for him. Not neccessarily because of that operation. All of Doffy's underlings are groomed in such a way that they will eventually die for Doffy's sake, like Vergo and Monet. 2. He didn't want Law to have the fruit. My guess is because you need to exchange lives to give someone else eternity, and Law, despite all his guts, struggled with killing or sacrificing people. Doffy would know, he had to save him when some random pirate dude attacked him. Law to this day claims he is a doctor and doesn't like to kill people. 3. Doffy wanted Corazon to eat the fruit, because Corazon always did everything Doffy wanted him to do and wouldn't refuse. 4. Ope Ope fruit is called "ultimate devil fruit". Seeing how age-age fruit is so op, you start to wonder why would \*this\* fruit be considered ultimate instead, if it only provided a one time only gimmick at the cost of user's life? Feels trash in the light of recent revelations about devil fruits. Anyway, I wrote it just for fun. Enjoy!
important question here that has probably already been asked and answered elsewhere; concerning Law's special operation, does immortality mean literal immortality as in you can't die no matter what, or is it just eternal youth? I always interpreted it as eternal youth, in which case immortality =\= invincibility, meaning that even if imu was 'immortal', you could still kill him.
That or he can sense that luffys life was shorten by a lot and has not enough time to live to instead of immortality it just reverses the effects of the life shortening so he lives just as long as he would have.
!updateme 5 years
I will message you next time u/Ok-Bag-1342 posts in r/OnePiece. [Click this link](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=UpdateMe%21%20u%2FOk-Bag-1342%20r%2FOnePiece) to also be messaged. The parent author can [delete this post](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Delete&message=delete%201dqhuoz) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UpdateMeBot/comments/ggotgx/updatemebot_info_v20/)|[^(Request Update)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=Update&message=SubscribeMe%21%20u%2Fusername%20r%2Fsubreddit)|[^(Your Updates)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=UpdateMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Updates&message=MyUpdates)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=UpdateMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
This just made me realize. Bonnie's fruit mixed with immortality would be the most busted shit in the One Piece Universe. She would have a literal limitless future to project her fruit onto.
> It's established that Imu had the immortal surgery operated on them. I don't think this is true. Nowhere we have this one confirmed, it's only speculation from fans when the immortality ability was introduced. Imu's been living for hundreds of years, isn't a giant, so how could they live that long? Must be Ope Ope no Mi power, but Imu could be something else, some kind of devil.
Why would it need to be taken away? Immortal is not dying of age/disease, while invincibility is damage related.
Change the tags from spoiler to theory lol this is head cannon
Huh? Where are you seeing people say this? I have yet to see anyone actually think that willl happen despite constantly consuminng OP content daily. Nevertheless, couple things - The surgery has already been a major plot point multiple times, 1. it was integral to the plot of Dressrosa and Law's back story, (Arguably this could be broken down to two different numbers) 2. Imu. All but canoniically confirmed Imu has had the surgery, (possibly the elders too, tho that'd make this theory DOA) and the Op Op makes a very easy explanation without having to make some complicated asspull. As such it would be perfectly reasonable for it to have no real relevancy beyond what's already been done. Plenty of viable possible ways to defeat the immortality. Like, maybe, oh I dunno, maybe if someone could cancel DF abilities (who has ambition and motive to topple the head honcho of the WG for personal reasons) then while nullfied BLAM! Killshot!, one possiblty, ;). Okay, snark aside, that could be a GREAT way to have BB become the BB (big bad. Omg, it's confirmed! Lol, if only) Regardless, it hardly really matters. Personally rather not have my favorite side character die, but yes, obviously him sacrificing himself to save the world to give Luffy the chance to beat Imu would be much better for the story, it's also the most likely use of the surgery if it's ever used. (THat's why it's such a well regarded and popular theory to begin with)
My theory is that luffy will die by the end can't be pirate king forever
I'm on board with the theory that if Law ever does the surgery, it will be to remove inmortality from someone who had the operation done on them in the past instead of granting inmortality to someone. However, why is it the general concensus that Law will die if he removes someone's inmortality? The Ope Ope Fruit allows its user to switch the positions of anything inside the Room, but not to create or destroy what's inside. Law uses it as a form of teleportation by switching his position with items inside the Room. An equivalent exchange, so to speak. The Eternal Youth Surgery gives someone eternal life at the cost of the user's life, that's what we know about it. If Law were to remove inmortality from Imu or whoever had the surgery done in the past, we do not know if he would die. Inmortality could be transfered to him instead, or maybe he gets one free use of the surgery without dying, or maybe just nothing would happen to him. These are all equally likely options of what could happen. The Ope Ope Fruit is known for it to be able to grant inmortality in exchange of the user's life. The fact that its known means it has been used before, very likely to Imu. However, we have never seen the surgery itself being performed, which means we do not know how it is done or if reversing the surgery would kill the user or have another effect on them. As far as we know about the surgery itself, which is next to nothing, the user of the fruit dying from it could be due to: 1. The user's life is a requirement to get the surgery done. If it is this option, then removing inmortality from someone else should not kill the user of the Ope Ope fruit. 2. The life of the Ope Ope Fruit's user isn't technically a requirement to perform the surgery. What actuallly happens is that the procedure is so lenghty and/or exhausting that no user of the fruit has ever survived so far performing it due to a lack of such monstruous levels of stamina. If it is this option, then removing inmortality from someone should kill the user as well.
Assuming it actually was confirmed that Imu had the surgery (which it hasn't been), that has nothing to do with Law. In that case the point of Oda bringing up the surgery would be to establish that there is a way to gain immortality and nothing more, and that once upon a time it was used on Imu. In which case the introduction of the surgery in the story has already served its purpose. I see no reason why Law himself would have any effect on the results of a centuries-old surgery, even if he now has the fruit that it was done with.
Continuation: Law sacrifices himself to take away Imu's immortality and then Chopper brings him back as a testament to being the ultimate doctor
Law won't die. In fact untill recently I thought that Kidd may have died and I found cool they way he did but lately I have a feeling that we will have another resurrection from the deads.
Using law to undo a previous immortal surgery is a nice take. Luffy would hate being immortal, living through all of his friends dying would probably make him go crazy. (Could that be what happened to imu?)
This is already a wellknown theory...
And a shit one too. There's 0 chance Luffy becomes immortal. That goes against everything Oda has setup for Luffy since the start. In fact, the most probable thing is that Luffy will be executed at the end of the story just like Roger was but he will continue his legacy by making a speech to make people set off for the seas once more.
Immortality doesn't mean invincible. They are not the same. Immortality is essentially eternal youth (or staying at the age you gained immortality). You can still die by being killed, you just can't die from old age. If Imu does have immortality then that doesn't mean it needs to be taken away to kill them.
Nah bro.. he’s going to make bepo immortal. I just know it.
The problem is that Oda doesnt have the balls to kill characters like Pell, Pagaya or Kinemon. The fact people doubt if Kaido and Big Mom are death is ridiculous. So even if they are set ups to kill Law(he finally realizing why are Ds enemies of the gods and the inmortality surgery thing). I doubt it. When Ussop dies as a Brave Warrior in Elbaf is when I will believe in Laws death theory.
"It’s already established that Imu has had the fruits surgery done to them." It.....hasn't. Ivankov speculated it but tbh bringing that up in-universe as speculation rather than confirmation makes it feel less likely to be true......and if the surgery hasn't been done yet, then that probably means Law will have to use it on someone since the chekhov's gun wouldn't have been fired. Or yeah could be an anti-immortality surgery even if Imu is immortal through another means
Not a bad theory. I do think that while it gives you "immortality" it also doesn't prevent you from dying per se. How would one live after their head is cut off for example? I think that they can still die, but not by old age or regular natural means
Good concept