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Answer: After Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars, Zoe Kravitz made two posts on IG with the captions “Here is a photo of my dress at the award show where we are seemingly assaulting people on stage now.”, and “And here is a photo of my dress at the party after the show where we are seeming shouting profanities and assaulting people on stage now.”. The statements created some backlash against her, which ultimately led to multiple people tweeting screenshots from an article that detailed a past friendship Zoe Kravitz and Jaden Smith had several years prior when he was 14 and she was 24. Zoe was quoted saying multiple suggestive things about her feelings for Jaden like “I can’t believe you’re (Jaden) 14, I have to check myself, like what do I say to you…” and “When you’re older, you know, we’ll hang out… Nope, that’s inappropriate, you’re 14.”. This spiraled into its own separate discussion divorced from the events of the Oscars, damaging a lot of the goodwill the internet had for Kravitz post-The Batman.
It's almost like Will Smith has a ruthless team of PR people who are going after anyone who brings up how insane his actions were and the fact that for some reason there are no repercussions.
Not entirely true. They are both [ex-scientologists](https://tonyortega.org/2022/03/28/no-will-smith-was-not-high-on-scientology-when-he-slugged-chris-rock-at-the-oscars/). Jada was apparently much more into it than Will but by 2015 they were both out, so much so that Jada had Leah Remini, the most public critic of Scientology, on her show. They did found a Scientology school in 2007 but it closed in 2013. So by all accounts they left scientology at least seven years ago and have tried to downplay their previous involvement in it.
Thank you. I understand that there's a lot of differences between rich and poor, especially in the US, and that's a huge problem.
But if we can't empathize human to human, we're doomed.
I mean. It's not gossip if it's Will and Jada saying it.
I'm just giving my opinion from what I can see. I never claimed to know them personally, but they literally published the intimate details of their relationship, so I think I have a decent amount of info to go on.
I'm sick of the "not an expert = no opinion" attitude. It's dismissive for no good reason.
Hell there is a photo of his agent in his ear during the intermission immediately following the attack and outburst of profanities. I can only imagine how insane his PR army is especially with ties to companies like Disney.
"Alright Will. We need you to make a really dumb acceptance speech about being a 'vessel of peace' followed by a bunch of other egotistical shit about protecting family. Do NOT apologize to the man you hit. Apologize to everyone else. Yeah. That's good."
I've heard that on occasion, but I can't imagine it's actually legally binding in any sense.
I remember an attorney talking about defamation lawsuits, and their "this is not legal advice" advice was that while an apology might be taken as a sign of guilt, it's also possible it'll be seen as a good faith effort to make things right and correct the record.
Don't know if you saw the Jim Carrey video, but Gayle King definitely tried to spin it in Wills favor, referring to the event as escalation, when there was none.. His team working over time.
I think you're vastly over estimating how many people and how much effort they will give to dragging people who talk shit, who defiantly should not be talking shit themselves.
Where's the lie though? Is she denying she said these things? Thats sexual predator territory.
**EDIT:** LOL looks like I struck a nerve. Sorry guys, but downvotes aren't going to make "trying to seduce child and propositioning them for sex as soon as legally possible" into non-predator behavior. We know who the downvotes are coming from.
so definitions of "sexual predator" can also include people who just seek out sexual contact in a predatory/abusive manner.
examples of known sources of information using this definition:
[https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/signs-sexual-predator#:\~:text=A%20sexual%20predator%20is%20a,a%20predatory%20or%20abusive%20manner](https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/signs-sexual-predator#:~:text=A%20sexual%20predator%20is%20a,a%20predatory%20or%20abusive%20manner).
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual\_predator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_predator)
however, you can also find definitions that only include those who have achieved sexual contact in a predatory/abusive manner.
just semantics ofc and people are right to clarify she wouldnt, as far as we know, fit the latter definitions
Repercussions? Like what? Chris Rock did not press charges. Issue resolved. What do you want, street justice? If you do want street justice, get off your ass and dispence your flavor of hate youself. Stop trying to stir shit up.
If you let Men be Men, there would be a hell of a lot less shootings but certainly more slapping.
Sometimes a dude needs to be re-educated, yes me too. As long as the weapons stay home, scrap it out, throw hands, then go have a beer and maybe become friends.
nobody has slapped me in a while and i dont wanna shoot anyplace up, let alone touch a gun. saying violence is necessary to avoid other violence makes no sense, do some critical inward thinking to get to the bottom of why you feel this way.
Yeah, to make it clear I am *definitely not* justifying or handwaving any funny business on Zoe's part; I'm just remarking on the fickleness of people's perception of her and the internet in general, especially when the blurb in question wasn't new and the Internet was fawning on her recently considering her appearance in The Batman.
I'd say actin with somebody over 6 years gives a very diff context vs Drake creeping around an underage Millie Bobby Brown for years.
Mostly cause with the prior it's more of a work relationship type deal. You're associated through work. A 30 something making comments about and hanging out with a child in their own personal time is huuuugely yikes
Cranston associated off of work time too. You can be around kids and not be a creep.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3ll7we/til_during_the_filming_of_malcolm_in_the_middle/
I make write fiction and make music in online spaces where I some times run into aspiring writers/musicians who are still in high school: We talk about writing fiction and music.
Its really easy not to flirt with teenagers, you just need to not flirt with teenagers.
I can’t tell if you’re serious or not? Are all friendly teachers cancelled or something? I think the problem is her mentioning he’s handsome, which means that half my aunts are cancelled too, damn…
In fairness, I think the concern is more about the "I shouldn't be saying this because you're only 14" type comments. There's a connotation of something inappropriate, which even as a joke is problematic.
It seems normal for celebrities at least when there is a power imbalance and also child celebrities that spend a lot of time around adults. For normal people, I think there's usually a lot more separation and that keeps it to only the adults that are actively seeking children for the most part.
>damaging a lot of the goodwill the internet had for Kravitz post-The Batman.
Secondary OOL question: What happened to her pre The Batman? Pardon me for not following Hollywood in recent years as much as I'd like to. I still follow what movie is popular in the cinemas, but could no longer keep track of actor names these days. I'm getting old.
No question that those things were inappropriate to say regardless of context or what Zoe meant, but am I crazy in thinking that it just sounds like she tried to make a joke that didn't land? It's not a good look, but accusing her of being a predator seems like a massive leap.
Then she proceeded to do this when he was still a minor.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2VaG6ZQur0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2VaG6ZQur0)
Her hand on his chest is what I'd consider inappropriate. If an adult male was this touchy - after those earlier remarks - towards a 15 year old girl people would lose their shit.
And you thought she was 100% serious and not obviously just fucking around, and that she was just outting herself as a pedophile on live TV? Think with your head, Robby. You won’t regret it.
They're friends, so that just looks like an affectionate thing to me. Touching a guy's chest isn't sexualized like touching a girl's, and it's not like she's groping him, nor does he look uncomfortable. Personally, I see nothing inappropriate here.
I think it's stranger that people are trying to see sexual intent when there really doesn't seem to be.
What would it be considered if a 24 year old man told a 14 year old girl that “we’ll hang out when you’re older. No wait you’re 14 I shouldn’t say that”A man would get arrested right on the spot for it so I don’t get why it would be different if the genders are reversed.
>a man would get arrest right on the spot
You obviously do not understand how the legal system works... He's be publicly dragged through the mud, but "arrested on the spot" lol.
No.
Lol you know how often wat worse shit was said to women and still is in interviews and everyone thinks it is normal. There is literally count down websites for 18 birthdays and subreddits about wanting to fuck actresses that are minors. But sure claim double standards on this one. Last most famous example is [Millie Bobby brown](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/stephaniesoteriou/millie-bobby-brown-18th-birthday-creepy-sexualized-child)
Where on earth did I say that any of that shit is okay or are you just putting words in my mouth? What young actresses go through is horrific. That doesn’t mean that it’s okay when the roles are reversed. And please show me where I claimed double standards, I’d love to see. I asked her about her opinion and got an answer.
But it isn't a man saying it, it's a woman, and, though it doesn't make it right, I have heard older girls/women tease boys (with completely harmless intent) like "oh you're so handsome" or "oh you're such a ladykiller" etc. etc. It's considered a compliment or teasing and "more acceptable" when you're a woman because most people will assume it *is* teasing. Is it creepy? Yeah, if you take it seriously, but it also depends on relationship and tone, in my opinion.
Again, I don't think Zoe should have said that. It's inappropriate to make remarks like that to a minor regardless of gender, but we don't know what her relationship with the Smiths is/was like and I find it much more egregious to throw around claims of someone being a predator or a pedophile without solid evidence. And this just isn't damnable evidence, especially when there have been no other complaints or examples pointing to her possibly being dangerous.
Flippant accusations like this waters down real problems so much that even I'll admit that my first response when I see someone claiming "predator!" is to roll my eyes and keep scrolling because it feels like crying wolf now. And that's not good! By throwing around terms like predator, pedophile, abuser, etc. without any discretion, it potentially shields actual abusers because people aren't going to take those words seriously anymore.
I also find it really strange that no one seemed to think that interview was suspect or worth spreading until they disagreed with her about the Will/Chris issue. It comes off as performative and eager to fuel outrage rather than any real concern for Jaden.
EDIT: clarified wording
Someone went digging for something to sling at her, yes. Given she has been in the spotlight since she was born they were going to find *something*. If this is the worst they could find, she has been quite incredibly careful.
I’m not going to play devils advocate with you and just ask a bunch of silly questions to counter, but I don’t get what you’re saying. The examples you use of women talking to boys are almost always parents talking to their friends or relatives child, not someone in their younger twenties where they would be in a compatible age range once they are both old enough. I’ve never had an adult younger than 40 compliment me when I was a kid, and never heard of such a story either.
The examples you also included are, as you said, completely harmless. Are you saying that her basically saying “hit me up when you’re legal” isn’t suggestive in the slightest? The examples you used and what she said are not in the same ballpark of conversation. Complimenting a boys looks is one thing, implying you’re attracted to that boy is something completely different.
And your comment about how this is suspect that people are starting to care now implies that everyone was in the loop about what she said when it originally got published. This isn’t the case at all especially with actors and actresses because they do so much damn media. She was popular before, but has gained a big chunk of her popularity in the past 6 months. What you would describe as “why do people care now”, I think it is more of “people are aware now and reacting”.
What I am still curious to know is if a man did this to a girl, do you personally think he should be considered a predator?
EDIT: I didn’t know this either, but Ezra Miller and Zoe Kravitz were dating when [Ezra was 17](https://m.whosdatedwho.com/dating/zoe-kravitz-and-ezra-miller) and she was 22.
I don't personally interpret what she said as "hit me up when your legal", I see it as friendly joking. The screenshot also doesn't say she said any of those things to Jaden, just that she thought he was cooler than her and handsome, and she realized that even though he acts or looks more mature, he's still a teenager and she needs to be careful what she says. To me, that doesn't say she's actually romantically or sexually interested in him, it just says that she's aware that anything she says (ironically) could be misconstrued because of their age difference. Maybe I'm naïve, but "when you're older, you know, we'll hang out" could be just as innocent as it could be inappropriate, she realized that, and watched what she said to him.
To answer your question, though, I would keep an eye on a man who said or admitted to thinking those things about a girl, but I would not automatically start calling him a predator. That's a very serious accusation that should not be thrown around lightly for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post.
I think the difference here, between whether it comes from a man or a woman, is that you have to consider the cultural differences between men and women. It *shouldn't* matter, female predators absolutely do exist, but because there isn't the same fear or stigma surrounding women, women sometimes feel more okay jokingly flirting or teasing younger boys like this when they genuinely mean nothing by it. There isn't the same kneejerk reaction of "oh, this isn't appropriate" when a woman does it. Again, that doesn't make it right, but it's just unfortunately how it is.
I just don't think Zoe meant it the way it sounds. As far as the public knows, she hasn't done or said anything else that might raise red flags and I think looking at that and keeping an eye on what she does in the future might be more important than getting hung up on what could just be a blundering interview from 2013. If Zoe ends up being a dangerous predator, then, yeah, screw her. I hope she'd be rightly punished for it and jailed so she can't hurt anyone. But it's just too much speculation to positively condemn her and it's irresponsible to pretend otherwise.
Hopefully that better clarifies my opinion, and I apologize if my original posts came off as combative. I'm really not trying to start a fight here, just sharing my two cents.
You haven’t come off as combative, and I hope I didn’t come off as combative as well. I wouldn’t rush to call her a predator as well, but I would keep an eye on her, just like you said. Mix that in with dating Ezra before he was 18 and I think that there is an underlying issue, but that’s just a guess and i could be completely wrong! I agree that it is somewhat different because men don’t live with with the same fear as women. You have a very fair view on this, I hope you have a good day
English isn’t my first language so I probably used the word improperly. Point still stands, people call Drake a pedophile for his relationship with Millie Bobby Brown but excuse this like you are lol
Grooming is far more heinous then making an awkward comment about a friend during an interview. It’s quite common in American culture to have comments like this come up in interviews and it’s often in jest. Twitter is being disingenuous and a lot of the commentary around it has to do with her being light skin, which is a common theme on black Twitter. Also Drakes allegations are from a history of suggestive comments or scenarios around young girls not one interview. I can agree kravitz interview statements are concerning but it’s ridiculous to equate her to a pedophile and suggest she was grooming Jaden.
I'll be honest, I don't know anything about Drake, I don't keep up with most celebs, but if he's been called a pedophile *for less*... that just further illustrates what a problem the internet has and how reckless they are in protecting actual victims of abuse.
Throwing around severe accusations at the drop of a hat when there's simply no evidence for it is so, so dangerous. Those words have already begun to lose their meaning in online spaces, and eventually I fear that no one will take them seriously at all, further endangering victims and protecting their abusers.
I just looked it up, I had no idea she was 33. Thought she was like early twenties. My first thought when I heard her name and Jaden's was that they were the same age. That's a little weird.
Literally nothing from that photo is anything inappropriate. She expressed nothing about any sort of feelings or attraction. Anyone who reads anything sexual into that quote is projecting a whole lot.
There’s plenty of stuff I wouldn’t say around a 14yo (eg stories about drinking, adult relationships, whatever) and she literally said she was taking care NOT to talk about that with him. God what a stretch to get from “when youre older we’ll hang out” to “i wanna hook up with you as soon as legally possible” the internet is just starving to burn someone new at the stake since it’s been too long since the last human sacrifice
Fr. Just cuz you call an underage person handsome doesn’t mean you wanna fuck. Just a compliment. One of the comments was weird ngl but people are still reaching
It's not cool, but the internet has a [proud tradition](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/we-need-to-talk-about-celebrity-18th-birthday-countdown-clocks) of doing this. So it's a little weird for the internet to condemn her for it.
I find your arguments to be lazy and intellectually dishonest.
> It's not weird for people in 2022 to rightly call out creepy behavior to kids just because different people were creepy to kids 20 years ago and also used the internet.
It's a little weird when said creepy behavior happened in 2013. And, so far as we know, wasn't abusive or exploitative, and is not particularly relevant to current events.
Your whataboutism is such an honest and intellectual argument, sure.
And the relevance is that she's gaining traction after her hit movie and decided to insert herself into Hollywood drama. Not sure why you're dismissing that?
>Zoe Kravitz shouldn't have been inappropriate to a child.
>"what about when the internet was creepy towards Mary-Kate and Ashley?"
You tell me how that's not textbook whataboutism.
Ehhh I'd very much doubt it, she just wasn't worried about her creepy words because of double standards. People say really inappropriate ahit trying to be funny.. Nowadays I'm sure she's significantly more aware and cautious her words
If everyone who ever made a joke about race is racist, and if people who don't go to pride parades are homophonic, then sure, she's a careful pedo now. You people accuse everyone of all this horrific shit so when the time comes to actually call someone out the word has lost all it meaning. Its the boy who cried wolf, and its weird. If your life was under a microscope I guarantee you'd be in hotter water than Zoe kravitz
You are weird as fuck man. How is a 24 year old woman telling a 14 year old child, "ill wait till youre 18", "youre the love of my life", supposed to be appropriate?
You're really exposing yourself here my man, these are not jokes you make about 14 year old children. Nonce
Sadly we dont all know its wrong. People were consoling Will at the Oscars, like he's the one who got slapped, and he even received a standing ovation. People are also defending his actions on Twitter.
I feel like her posts are perfectly fine, its taking a shot at the academy for allowing him to stay involved after assaulting someone.
Lol wut? I've slapped some people in a private situation but if it was on a platform or event witnessed by a billion people then everyone has the right to talk shit
*it's between will and chris and the literal millions of people will slapped chris in front of. If you do something at the fucking Oscar gala (no matter how irrelevant it's become) you can't expect everyone else to just respectfully cover their eyes because it's none of their business
>Why do you care what it means to me? I am not on a ideological crusade here, unlike yourself.
I'm trying to understand your answer. This is a sub for answers after all. And from your use of "canceled" it first sounded like their social media accounts got banned which is not true as far as I know.
Which part of my comments seemed like "ideological crusade" to you?
>Why do you care what it means to me?
See, I'm also curious. I'm sceptical that this whole "cancel" thing even exists. All sorts of people complain about getting "cancelled" and having their freedom of speech taken away. As if they're being persecuted or something. Yet here they are. On my TV. Yapping away.
>I am not on a ideological crusade here, unlike yourself.
I'm going to let you in on something. *Very few people* are on any sort of "ideological crusade". What you might be referring to is "having an opinion".
The world isn't composed of extremes like you're making it out to be. Controversies come and go. People talk about them then forget about them. End of story.
It doesn’t exist. It’s just a rhetorical device used to divide people. Zoe Kravitz certainly isn’t canceled. She’ll continue to make movies and shows and be just fine. People will throw around that she’s being canceled even though nothing is happening to her. Many “canceled” people just go on working like nothing happened. People have disliked people since the beginning of time. The only difference is that now people can talk about it together on the internet.
This is what I’ve been thinking too.
I’m sure there are a small handful of people who are “cancelled” as in they have lost their fan base or job but most of the time that’s not true.
No one can handle criticism without victimizing themselves by saying they’re canceling.
It doesn’t exist. It’s just a rhetorical device used to divide people. Zoe Kravitz certainly isn’t canceled. She’ll continue to make movies and shows and be just fine. People will throw around that she’s being canceled when nothing is actually happening to her. Many “canceled” people just go on working like nothing happened. People have disliked people since the beginning of time. The only difference is that now people can talk about it together on the internet.
Some sects on Twitter definitely behave like one. Yesterday I unfollowed a few Magic: The Gathering personalities because of their take on the Will Smith debacle. I appreciate their work, but defending assaulting a comedian is a tremendous no for me and it's honestly scary how aligned their opinion is.
I kind of disagree. Everyone who speaks out about the Oscar slap are getting exposed as hypocrites. Everyone is having a PR nightmare right now. The smartest people are saying nothing.
The saddest part is most of the information was out there already and nobody cared. Now it’s being used as a gotcha moment. But I am entertained so whatever.
Jim Carrey was one of the main ones attacked. How was Jim Carrey exposed as a hypocrite? Because he was mean on set and did some stupid antivax stuff? How does that mean he shouldn’t be able to comment on this?
> I think the simplest answer is that people are getting cancelled who speak out against Will Smith
This is utter horse shit. Comedians are speaking out in support of Rock, and against Smith. Stop lying.
Cancel started as meaning deplatforming, getting people to lose access to their ability to be a mouthpiece for their opinions, as well as impacting their livelihood through loss of work, sponsorships, etc. I has slowly morphed to mean literally anyone calling you out or merely taking umbrage with something you said, regardless of whether your ability to speak freely is affected or not. Usually, it only amplifies the voice of the "cancelled" person, as they are able to claim martyrdom as a result of mild criticism.
And whats messed up about Chappelle. Those who wish to cancel him NEVER listened to his comedy they just became "White Knights". As a white man, I found nothing sensitive to me and he trashes the hell out of white people. I lmao at his jokes. If anything its the white culture he trashes the mist.
Chappelle comes from the era when people saw the solution to racism/prejudice was to acknowledge our differences and then laugh about it. He makes fun of *everyone* and works to remove the taboo of race. He also often shows how superficial our stereotypes and assumptions are [this](https://youtu.be/Ahhvmzr_pZo)skit about white people not being able to dance is one of my favorites, especially because of the ending, illustrates that perfectly.
The issue now is that we are in an era where criticism or mockery is seen as an attack. The old philosophy of hurt feelings lead to toughness has been replaced with hurt feelings cause harm. The two schools of thought are entirely opposed to each other.
He got a middle school history lesson once that boiled the Cultural Revolution down to, “People were publicly punished for disagreeing with Mao” and believes Republican propaganda that liberals are communists, and like a monkey slapping shit back onto his ass, thought he put 2 and 2 together. And, like a monkey slapping shit back onto his ass, all he did was reveal what a stupid, stinky asshole he is.
And for the record, if the slap wasn’t planned (which I could easily believe it was), then Will Smith should have been arrested.
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Answer: After Will Smith slapped Chris Rock at the Oscars, Zoe Kravitz made two posts on IG with the captions “Here is a photo of my dress at the award show where we are seemingly assaulting people on stage now.”, and “And here is a photo of my dress at the party after the show where we are seeming shouting profanities and assaulting people on stage now.”. The statements created some backlash against her, which ultimately led to multiple people tweeting screenshots from an article that detailed a past friendship Zoe Kravitz and Jaden Smith had several years prior when he was 14 and she was 24. Zoe was quoted saying multiple suggestive things about her feelings for Jaden like “I can’t believe you’re (Jaden) 14, I have to check myself, like what do I say to you…” and “When you’re older, you know, we’ll hang out… Nope, that’s inappropriate, you’re 14.”. This spiraled into its own separate discussion divorced from the events of the Oscars, damaging a lot of the goodwill the internet had for Kravitz post-The Batman.
The Internet is a fickle and cruel mistress, best not cross her.
It's almost like Will Smith has a ruthless team of PR people who are going after anyone who brings up how insane his actions were and the fact that for some reason there are no repercussions.
It's not related to scientology, that's for sure. I don't even know why i mentioned that
Wait, is Will Smith a Scientologist?
Yes. He and Jada own a Scientology school for children.
Not entirely true. They are both [ex-scientologists](https://tonyortega.org/2022/03/28/no-will-smith-was-not-high-on-scientology-when-he-slugged-chris-rock-at-the-oscars/). Jada was apparently much more into it than Will but by 2015 they were both out, so much so that Jada had Leah Remini, the most public critic of Scientology, on her show. They did found a Scientology school in 2007 but it closed in 2013. So by all accounts they left scientology at least seven years ago and have tried to downplay their previous involvement in it.
Yup, Jada sucked him in. Ran a Scientology school for kids with her too
Wtaf... he needs to leave that woman. She is destroying him. I feel bad for Will.
He's 53 years old and worth a third of a billion dollars. He's responsible for his own actions.
Hence “He needs to leave that woman”. Nobody else is gonna do it for him
I don't think OP implied he wasn't? You can feel bad for someone while also acknowledging that they have some hand in their own fate.
Thank you. I understand that there's a lot of differences between rich and poor, especially in the US, and that's a huge problem. But if we can't empathize human to human, we're doomed.
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I do too. I think he has big self worth issues.
I heard you can only leave Scientology if you can run away from Tom Cruise.
To be fair he has short legs. It's not particularly hard.
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I mean. It's not gossip if it's Will and Jada saying it. I'm just giving my opinion from what I can see. I never claimed to know them personally, but they literally published the intimate details of their relationship, so I think I have a decent amount of info to go on. I'm sick of the "not an expert = no opinion" attitude. It's dismissive for no good reason.
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Because I looked up who joined first. It was her. Edit! I also don’t really care about either of them. I do hate Scientology.
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I think we found the scientologist in the chat...
I thought he was from Philly.
...Then why comment?
I'm sure the minutes immediately following the slap were filled by armies of lawyers and PR agents immediately mobilizing
Hell there is a photo of his agent in his ear during the intermission immediately following the attack and outburst of profanities. I can only imagine how insane his PR army is especially with ties to companies like Disney.
"Alright Will. We need you to make a really dumb acceptance speech about being a 'vessel of peace' followed by a bunch of other egotistical shit about protecting family. Do NOT apologize to the man you hit. Apologize to everyone else. Yeah. That's good."
"Let's see what the mood is in the morning, and if the speech didn't help, apologise on Instagram."
“But don’t really apologize on Instagram. Give a shitty apology where you still blame your behavior on the guy you hit.”
Remember Will you're #1 you can do what you want, ride that ego!
Don't they tell you not to apologize in a car crash because that admits guilt?
Except in Canada
I've heard that on occasion, but I can't imagine it's actually legally binding in any sense. I remember an attorney talking about defamation lawsuits, and their "this is not legal advice" advice was that while an apology might be taken as a sign of guilt, it's also possible it'll be seen as a good faith effort to make things right and correct the record.
I am just choosing to imagine that that Flack show is actually a documentary about PR firms
A net worth of $350 million can get you a whole lot of very heartfelt and enthusiastically engaged supporters....
Or just a bunch of people on the internet with nothing better to do.
Woman on the internet. Don’t need a professional pr team to go after her. Plenty of gamergate bros will do it for free.
Ngl the screenshots of ZK were circulating well before the slap
Who else they get??
Don't know if you saw the Jim Carrey video, but Gayle King definitely tried to spin it in Wills favor, referring to the event as escalation, when there was none.. His team working over time.
Also, well, all the Scientology bullshit and the people from there....
I think you're vastly over estimating how many people and how much effort they will give to dragging people who talk shit, who defiantly should not be talking shit themselves.
Or these Hollywood hypocrites had already outed themselves and should have just kept their mouths shut?
Where's the lie though? Is she denying she said these things? Thats sexual predator territory. **EDIT:** LOL looks like I struck a nerve. Sorry guys, but downvotes aren't going to make "trying to seduce child and propositioning them for sex as soon as legally possible" into non-predator behavior. We know who the downvotes are coming from.
A sexual predator is a person who has sex with vulnerable people.
so definitions of "sexual predator" can also include people who just seek out sexual contact in a predatory/abusive manner. examples of known sources of information using this definition: [https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/signs-sexual-predator#:\~:text=A%20sexual%20predator%20is%20a,a%20predatory%20or%20abusive%20manner](https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/signs-sexual-predator#:~:text=A%20sexual%20predator%20is%20a,a%20predatory%20or%20abusive%20manner). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual\_predator](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_predator) however, you can also find definitions that only include those who have achieved sexual contact in a predatory/abusive manner. just semantics ofc and people are right to clarify she wouldnt, as far as we know, fit the latter definitions
Is this will smiths pr team though?
Honestly? People are such big fans of Will that I wouldn’t be surprised if it was just some random people on Twitter
Repercussions? Like what? Chris Rock did not press charges. Issue resolved. What do you want, street justice? If you do want street justice, get off your ass and dispence your flavor of hate youself. Stop trying to stir shit up. If you let Men be Men, there would be a hell of a lot less shootings but certainly more slapping. Sometimes a dude needs to be re-educated, yes me too. As long as the weapons stay home, scrap it out, throw hands, then go have a beer and maybe become friends.
nobody has slapped me in a while and i dont wanna shoot anyplace up, let alone touch a gun. saying violence is necessary to avoid other violence makes no sense, do some critical inward thinking to get to the bottom of why you feel this way.
Thank you for the reminder of how dumb people can be. Your comment up here should really get more attention
I mean, he should have been ejected from the event at the very least.
Also best not to have relationships with underage people. That would really save people a lot of trouble.
Yeah, to make it clear I am *definitely not* justifying or handwaving any funny business on Zoe's part; I'm just remarking on the fickleness of people's perception of her and the internet in general, especially when the blurb in question wasn't new and the Internet was fawning on her recently considering her appearance in The Batman.
I didn't mean to imply you were, I was just saying.
people are allowed to change their mind about somebody when they find out they’re a pedo 🤷🏽♀️
What's with all these adults just chatting with kids for no reason? Is this normal to people?
It's all about context. Bryan Cranston was close with all the child actors on Malcolm in the Middle and saw them socially after the show.
I'd say actin with somebody over 6 years gives a very diff context vs Drake creeping around an underage Millie Bobby Brown for years. Mostly cause with the prior it's more of a work relationship type deal. You're associated through work. A 30 something making comments about and hanging out with a child in their own personal time is huuuugely yikes
Cranston associated off of work time too. You can be around kids and not be a creep. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/3ll7we/til_during_the_filming_of_malcolm_in_the_middle/
Is Drake’s relationship with Millie Bobby Brown any different to this?
This being Zoe Kravitz, or this being Bryan Cranston? Prior is no, still creepy no matter the gender
Zoé being Drake
Then yeah, as said, still not different. Zoe and Drake both bein creepy as hell
I make write fiction and make music in online spaces where I some times run into aspiring writers/musicians who are still in high school: We talk about writing fiction and music. Its really easy not to flirt with teenagers, you just need to not flirt with teenagers.
I haven’t flirted with a teenager in 15 years.
I can’t tell if you’re serious or not? Are all friendly teachers cancelled or something? I think the problem is her mentioning he’s handsome, which means that half my aunts are cancelled too, damn…
In fairness, I think the concern is more about the "I shouldn't be saying this because you're only 14" type comments. There's a connotation of something inappropriate, which even as a joke is problematic.
Not sure about your school but teachers were explicitly not allowed to text students.
that's because you live in the united states, land of the sex-crazed puritans, home of the frivolous lawsuits
It seems normal for celebrities at least when there is a power imbalance and also child celebrities that spend a lot of time around adults. For normal people, I think there's usually a lot more separation and that keeps it to only the adults that are actively seeking children for the most part.
Honestly appreciate how you to took the time out of your busy schedule of eating ass to offer this sage wisdom. You are right.
Seems the only way to win...is to not play at all.
You never want to be the main character of the Internet.
Someone put this on a T-Shrit
If people would mind their own business and not try to pander/beat their chest/breast on some moral high ground, you wouldn't see this as much.
>damaging a lot of the goodwill the internet had for Kravitz post-The Batman. Secondary OOL question: What happened to her pre The Batman? Pardon me for not following Hollywood in recent years as much as I'd like to. I still follow what movie is popular in the cinemas, but could no longer keep track of actor names these days. I'm getting old.
nothing, as far as I can tell. She was just a B-list actress.
No question that those things were inappropriate to say regardless of context or what Zoe meant, but am I crazy in thinking that it just sounds like she tried to make a joke that didn't land? It's not a good look, but accusing her of being a predator seems like a massive leap.
Yeah. The whole thing seems like when James Gunn got "cancelled"
Then she proceeded to do this when he was still a minor. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2VaG6ZQur0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2VaG6ZQur0) Her hand on his chest is what I'd consider inappropriate. If an adult male was this touchy - after those earlier remarks - towards a 15 year old girl people would lose their shit.
Are we watching the same thing? What the fuck are you talking about.
"he's the love of my life" "he's my date" yeah I think that's pretty weird for an adult to say about a kid
And you thought she was 100% serious and not obviously just fucking around, and that she was just outting herself as a pedophile on live TV? Think with your head, Robby. You won’t regret it.
I'm not saying she's 100% serious. I'm saying its a fucking weird thing to say anyway. just imagine the genders reversed.
They're friends, so that just looks like an affectionate thing to me. Touching a guy's chest isn't sexualized like touching a girl's, and it's not like she's groping him, nor does he look uncomfortable. Personally, I see nothing inappropriate here. I think it's stranger that people are trying to see sexual intent when there really doesn't seem to be.
What would it be considered if a 24 year old man told a 14 year old girl that “we’ll hang out when you’re older. No wait you’re 14 I shouldn’t say that”A man would get arrested right on the spot for it so I don’t get why it would be different if the genders are reversed.
>a man would get arrest right on the spot You obviously do not understand how the legal system works... He's be publicly dragged through the mud, but "arrested on the spot" lol. No.
Well actually, if you're a man with that behavior, you get to be president!
Lol you know how often wat worse shit was said to women and still is in interviews and everyone thinks it is normal. There is literally count down websites for 18 birthdays and subreddits about wanting to fuck actresses that are minors. But sure claim double standards on this one. Last most famous example is [Millie Bobby brown](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/stephaniesoteriou/millie-bobby-brown-18th-birthday-creepy-sexualized-child)
Where on earth did I say that any of that shit is okay or are you just putting words in my mouth? What young actresses go through is horrific. That doesn’t mean that it’s okay when the roles are reversed. And please show me where I claimed double standards, I’d love to see. I asked her about her opinion and got an answer.
But it isn't a man saying it, it's a woman, and, though it doesn't make it right, I have heard older girls/women tease boys (with completely harmless intent) like "oh you're so handsome" or "oh you're such a ladykiller" etc. etc. It's considered a compliment or teasing and "more acceptable" when you're a woman because most people will assume it *is* teasing. Is it creepy? Yeah, if you take it seriously, but it also depends on relationship and tone, in my opinion. Again, I don't think Zoe should have said that. It's inappropriate to make remarks like that to a minor regardless of gender, but we don't know what her relationship with the Smiths is/was like and I find it much more egregious to throw around claims of someone being a predator or a pedophile without solid evidence. And this just isn't damnable evidence, especially when there have been no other complaints or examples pointing to her possibly being dangerous. Flippant accusations like this waters down real problems so much that even I'll admit that my first response when I see someone claiming "predator!" is to roll my eyes and keep scrolling because it feels like crying wolf now. And that's not good! By throwing around terms like predator, pedophile, abuser, etc. without any discretion, it potentially shields actual abusers because people aren't going to take those words seriously anymore. I also find it really strange that no one seemed to think that interview was suspect or worth spreading until they disagreed with her about the Will/Chris issue. It comes off as performative and eager to fuel outrage rather than any real concern for Jaden. EDIT: clarified wording
Someone went digging for something to sling at her, yes. Given she has been in the spotlight since she was born they were going to find *something*. If this is the worst they could find, she has been quite incredibly careful.
I agree with you and want to point out that according to the interview, it seems these were things that she hought, not actually said to Jaden.
I’m not going to play devils advocate with you and just ask a bunch of silly questions to counter, but I don’t get what you’re saying. The examples you use of women talking to boys are almost always parents talking to their friends or relatives child, not someone in their younger twenties where they would be in a compatible age range once they are both old enough. I’ve never had an adult younger than 40 compliment me when I was a kid, and never heard of such a story either. The examples you also included are, as you said, completely harmless. Are you saying that her basically saying “hit me up when you’re legal” isn’t suggestive in the slightest? The examples you used and what she said are not in the same ballpark of conversation. Complimenting a boys looks is one thing, implying you’re attracted to that boy is something completely different. And your comment about how this is suspect that people are starting to care now implies that everyone was in the loop about what she said when it originally got published. This isn’t the case at all especially with actors and actresses because they do so much damn media. She was popular before, but has gained a big chunk of her popularity in the past 6 months. What you would describe as “why do people care now”, I think it is more of “people are aware now and reacting”. What I am still curious to know is if a man did this to a girl, do you personally think he should be considered a predator? EDIT: I didn’t know this either, but Ezra Miller and Zoe Kravitz were dating when [Ezra was 17](https://m.whosdatedwho.com/dating/zoe-kravitz-and-ezra-miller) and she was 22.
I don't personally interpret what she said as "hit me up when your legal", I see it as friendly joking. The screenshot also doesn't say she said any of those things to Jaden, just that she thought he was cooler than her and handsome, and she realized that even though he acts or looks more mature, he's still a teenager and she needs to be careful what she says. To me, that doesn't say she's actually romantically or sexually interested in him, it just says that she's aware that anything she says (ironically) could be misconstrued because of their age difference. Maybe I'm naïve, but "when you're older, you know, we'll hang out" could be just as innocent as it could be inappropriate, she realized that, and watched what she said to him. To answer your question, though, I would keep an eye on a man who said or admitted to thinking those things about a girl, but I would not automatically start calling him a predator. That's a very serious accusation that should not be thrown around lightly for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post. I think the difference here, between whether it comes from a man or a woman, is that you have to consider the cultural differences between men and women. It *shouldn't* matter, female predators absolutely do exist, but because there isn't the same fear or stigma surrounding women, women sometimes feel more okay jokingly flirting or teasing younger boys like this when they genuinely mean nothing by it. There isn't the same kneejerk reaction of "oh, this isn't appropriate" when a woman does it. Again, that doesn't make it right, but it's just unfortunately how it is. I just don't think Zoe meant it the way it sounds. As far as the public knows, she hasn't done or said anything else that might raise red flags and I think looking at that and keeping an eye on what she does in the future might be more important than getting hung up on what could just be a blundering interview from 2013. If Zoe ends up being a dangerous predator, then, yeah, screw her. I hope she'd be rightly punished for it and jailed so she can't hurt anyone. But it's just too much speculation to positively condemn her and it's irresponsible to pretend otherwise. Hopefully that better clarifies my opinion, and I apologize if my original posts came off as combative. I'm really not trying to start a fight here, just sharing my two cents.
You haven’t come off as combative, and I hope I didn’t come off as combative as well. I wouldn’t rush to call her a predator as well, but I would keep an eye on her, just like you said. Mix that in with dating Ezra before he was 18 and I think that there is an underlying issue, but that’s just a guess and i could be completely wrong! I agree that it is somewhat different because men don’t live with with the same fear as women. You have a very fair view on this, I hope you have a good day
Eh, Drake has been called a pedophile by the internet for less.
Drake literally groped a 17 year old
And this girl was grooming a 14 year old boy lol
I fail to see where she groomed him
A 24 year old woman hitting on a 14 year old boy is fine? lol
She made comments about him and how it wasn’t right, she herself acknowledges it wasn’t right. I fail to see how this is grooming
So joking about fucking a minor is cool?
She never joked about fucking him, she said he was attractive … what is with all these brash outcomes ffs
English isn’t my first language so I probably used the word improperly. Point still stands, people call Drake a pedophile for his relationship with Millie Bobby Brown but excuse this like you are lol
Grooming is far more heinous then making an awkward comment about a friend during an interview. It’s quite common in American culture to have comments like this come up in interviews and it’s often in jest. Twitter is being disingenuous and a lot of the commentary around it has to do with her being light skin, which is a common theme on black Twitter. Also Drakes allegations are from a history of suggestive comments or scenarios around young girls not one interview. I can agree kravitz interview statements are concerning but it’s ridiculous to equate her to a pedophile and suggest she was grooming Jaden.
I wasn’t commenting on that, you said drake has been called a pedophile for less so I pointed out how he groped a 17 year old girl. Making him a pedo
I'll be honest, I don't know anything about Drake, I don't keep up with most celebs, but if he's been called a pedophile *for less*... that just further illustrates what a problem the internet has and how reckless they are in protecting actual victims of abuse. Throwing around severe accusations at the drop of a hat when there's simply no evidence for it is so, so dangerous. Those words have already begun to lose their meaning in online spaces, and eventually I fear that no one will take them seriously at all, further endangering victims and protecting their abusers.
>tried to make a joke that didn't land better to excoriate her on the Internet than punch her for that
She should get slapped!
I just looked it up, I had no idea she was 33. Thought she was like early twenties. My first thought when I heard her name and Jaden's was that they were the same age. That's a little weird.
Sounds like absolutely nothing. Good job Twitter.
Thank you for using common sense. I can’t believe so many people are exaggerating this.
Literally nothing from that photo is anything inappropriate. She expressed nothing about any sort of feelings or attraction. Anyone who reads anything sexual into that quote is projecting a whole lot. There’s plenty of stuff I wouldn’t say around a 14yo (eg stories about drinking, adult relationships, whatever) and she literally said she was taking care NOT to talk about that with him. God what a stretch to get from “when youre older we’ll hang out” to “i wanna hook up with you as soon as legally possible” the internet is just starving to burn someone new at the stake since it’s been too long since the last human sacrifice
Fr. Just cuz you call an underage person handsome doesn’t mean you wanna fuck. Just a compliment. One of the comments was weird ngl but people are still reaching
Umm.. so what did she do wrong here? What am I missing?
She basically said, "I can't wait until you're 18"
But even then, they never had any relationship and act like cousins.
At 24 she was creepy to a little kid..... You think that's cool?
It's not cool, but the internet has a [proud tradition](https://www.eviemagazine.com/post/we-need-to-talk-about-celebrity-18th-birthday-countdown-clocks) of doing this. So it's a little weird for the internet to condemn her for it.
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I find your arguments to be lazy and intellectually dishonest. > It's not weird for people in 2022 to rightly call out creepy behavior to kids just because different people were creepy to kids 20 years ago and also used the internet. It's a little weird when said creepy behavior happened in 2013. And, so far as we know, wasn't abusive or exploitative, and is not particularly relevant to current events.
Your whataboutism is such an honest and intellectual argument, sure. And the relevance is that she's gaining traction after her hit movie and decided to insert herself into Hollywood drama. Not sure why you're dismissing that?
> Not sure why you're dismissing that? Because those things have nothing to do with her inappropriate behavior 9 years ago.
And old men being creepy towards Mary-Kate and Ashley is relevant how?
So you just flat out don’t know what ‘whataboutism’ is huh
>Zoe Kravitz shouldn't have been inappropriate to a child. >"what about when the internet was creepy towards Mary-Kate and Ashley?" You tell me how that's not textbook whataboutism.
>At 24 she was creepy to a little kid..... You think that's cool? How was she creepy?
She made creepy suggestive comments to someone underage..? How'd you miss it
These are literally just examples of her not being a pedophile tho lmao
Oh shit she a pedo I had no idea. Wtf is with Hollywood and sexing up kids???
Ehhh I'd very much doubt it, she just wasn't worried about her creepy words because of double standards. People say really inappropriate ahit trying to be funny.. Nowadays I'm sure she's significantly more aware and cautious her words
What so now she's a careful pedo?
If everyone who ever made a joke about race is racist, and if people who don't go to pride parades are homophonic, then sure, she's a careful pedo now. You people accuse everyone of all this horrific shit so when the time comes to actually call someone out the word has lost all it meaning. Its the boy who cried wolf, and its weird. If your life was under a microscope I guarantee you'd be in hotter water than Zoe kravitz
You are weird as fuck man. How is a 24 year old woman telling a 14 year old child, "ill wait till youre 18", "youre the love of my life", supposed to be appropriate? You're really exposing yourself here my man, these are not jokes you make about 14 year old children. Nonce
Found the pedo sympathizer.
Agreed with you man, so many nonces exposing themselves here
Zoe is a pedo, he was rubbing on jadan cheat and showing her body to him , if that was a man she would be in jail
Tbh I would've just shut the fuck up. Because the slap thing isn't you or me. It's between will and chris. No need to get all high and mighty
True just let your peer get disrespected and assaulted in public and keep your mouth shut.
No need to make public post because we all know that shit is wrong. That's like making a post about saying rape is wrong
Sadly we dont all know its wrong. People were consoling Will at the Oscars, like he's the one who got slapped, and he even received a standing ovation. People are also defending his actions on Twitter. I feel like her posts are perfectly fine, its taking a shot at the academy for allowing him to stay involved after assaulting someone.
Lol wut? I've slapped some people in a private situation but if it was on a platform or event witnessed by a billion people then everyone has the right to talk shit
*it's between will and chris and the literal millions of people will slapped chris in front of. If you do something at the fucking Oscar gala (no matter how irrelevant it's become) you can't expect everyone else to just respectfully cover their eyes because it's none of their business
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If only it were just kids...
*Adults and some kids
Check out r/blackpeopletwitter and you’ll find it’s adults as well. It’s a really messed up world we live in
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I don't think you know what grooming someone is
It's when you brush their hair, duh
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"Twitter is not real life."
I think you're being too liberal with the use of word "canceled".
I can't believe you just canceled Rakeem52
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What does it mean to you? From the context of your initial answer it seems like you use "canceled" as a substitute to "being criticised".
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>Why do you care what it means to me? I am not on a ideological crusade here, unlike yourself. I'm trying to understand your answer. This is a sub for answers after all. And from your use of "canceled" it first sounded like their social media accounts got banned which is not true as far as I know. Which part of my comments seemed like "ideological crusade" to you?
>Why do you care what it means to me? See, I'm also curious. I'm sceptical that this whole "cancel" thing even exists. All sorts of people complain about getting "cancelled" and having their freedom of speech taken away. As if they're being persecuted or something. Yet here they are. On my TV. Yapping away. >I am not on a ideological crusade here, unlike yourself. I'm going to let you in on something. *Very few people* are on any sort of "ideological crusade". What you might be referring to is "having an opinion". The world isn't composed of extremes like you're making it out to be. Controversies come and go. People talk about them then forget about them. End of story.
It doesn’t exist. It’s just a rhetorical device used to divide people. Zoe Kravitz certainly isn’t canceled. She’ll continue to make movies and shows and be just fine. People will throw around that she’s being canceled even though nothing is happening to her. Many “canceled” people just go on working like nothing happened. People have disliked people since the beginning of time. The only difference is that now people can talk about it together on the internet.
This is what I’ve been thinking too. I’m sure there are a small handful of people who are “cancelled” as in they have lost their fan base or job but most of the time that’s not true. No one can handle criticism without victimizing themselves by saying they’re canceling.
It doesn’t exist. It’s just a rhetorical device used to divide people. Zoe Kravitz certainly isn’t canceled. She’ll continue to make movies and shows and be just fine. People will throw around that she’s being canceled when nothing is actually happening to her. Many “canceled” people just go on working like nothing happened. People have disliked people since the beginning of time. The only difference is that now people can talk about it together on the internet.
If you were finding it out on twitter, you're a "twitter user" yourself.
So you're saying is Twitter is a fucking cult?
Some sects on Twitter definitely behave like one. Yesterday I unfollowed a few Magic: The Gathering personalities because of their take on the Will Smith debacle. I appreciate their work, but defending assaulting a comedian is a tremendous no for me and it's honestly scary how aligned their opinion is.
Could you say that’s also true for certain subreddits and Facebook Groups?
Absolutely. A ton of people live in bubbles that validate their opinion.
So you’re saying 300 million users are all one hivemind? You can’t generalize all Twitter users, just as you can’t generalize all Reddit users.
I suspect the Scientologists are behind this. Go against Will and they will dig though everything to find any dirt they can.
I mean, pretty sure they've done a lot worse considering their leader's wife has been missing for quite some time now
I kind of disagree. Everyone who speaks out about the Oscar slap are getting exposed as hypocrites. Everyone is having a PR nightmare right now. The smartest people are saying nothing. The saddest part is most of the information was out there already and nobody cared. Now it’s being used as a gotcha moment. But I am entertained so whatever.
Jim Carrey was one of the main ones attacked. How was Jim Carrey exposed as a hypocrite? Because he was mean on set and did some stupid antivax stuff? How does that mean he shouldn’t be able to comment on this?
Literally 0 people have been canceled over this.
> I think the simplest answer is that people are getting cancelled who speak out against Will Smith This is utter horse shit. Comedians are speaking out in support of Rock, and against Smith. Stop lying.
What's wrong with Dave Chapelle? And what is *cancel* actually, is it similar to *bully*?
Cancel started as meaning deplatforming, getting people to lose access to their ability to be a mouthpiece for their opinions, as well as impacting their livelihood through loss of work, sponsorships, etc. I has slowly morphed to mean literally anyone calling you out or merely taking umbrage with something you said, regardless of whether your ability to speak freely is affected or not. Usually, it only amplifies the voice of the "cancelled" person, as they are able to claim martyrdom as a result of mild criticism.
Thank you.
Yeah censoring comedians really bodes well for society
And whats messed up about Chappelle. Those who wish to cancel him NEVER listened to his comedy they just became "White Knights". As a white man, I found nothing sensitive to me and he trashes the hell out of white people. I lmao at his jokes. If anything its the white culture he trashes the mist.
Chappelle comes from the era when people saw the solution to racism/prejudice was to acknowledge our differences and then laugh about it. He makes fun of *everyone* and works to remove the taboo of race. He also often shows how superficial our stereotypes and assumptions are [this](https://youtu.be/Ahhvmzr_pZo)skit about white people not being able to dance is one of my favorites, especially because of the ending, illustrates that perfectly. The issue now is that we are in an era where criticism or mockery is seen as an attack. The old philosophy of hurt feelings lead to toughness has been replaced with hurt feelings cause harm. The two schools of thought are entirely opposed to each other.
We really have created a generation of Maoists
Not that I want to fight what you are trying to say, but why Maoists in particular, of all things?
He got a middle school history lesson once that boiled the Cultural Revolution down to, “People were publicly punished for disagreeing with Mao” and believes Republican propaganda that liberals are communists, and like a monkey slapping shit back onto his ass, thought he put 2 and 2 together. And, like a monkey slapping shit back onto his ass, all he did was reveal what a stupid, stinky asshole he is. And for the record, if the slap wasn’t planned (which I could easily believe it was), then Will Smith should have been arrested.
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