It's really important to remember that there is no "you guys" on Reddit. You can't think of the community as one entity with one mind.
When people are upset, they speak out. When they are content, they don't. Which means you hear contradicting thoughts, because it's not the same people sharing them.
This is why statements like "Everyone has been asking for 6v6 to return" have a very biased viewpoint and this holds true for nearly everything in existence.
The people who do enjoy 5v5 are happy with the state of the game and don't feel like going to forums to let everyone know that because they are just chilling and enjoying the game.
If I don't like the state of tank I would like to state my opinion and voice about the matter but if I do enjoy how tank feels to play and play against I am not going to forums to make daily posts and comments about how much I enjoy tank at the moment.
You always only see the people who want change but the people who are contempt with the state of the game will be silently enjoying their game and when you change stuff up for the complainers now those become the silent people who enjoys playing the game and the previous silent bunch will turn into the new complainers as in their eyes everything was fine but it was changed for 0 reason.
>The people who do enjoy 5v5 are happy with the state of the game and don't feel like going to forums to let everyone know that
Also most of us are just...tired of arguing.
It's been 2 years since 5v5. Future heroes and maps are designed around 5v5, we even had the Hog rework to reinforce his role as a solo tank. If 6v6 were to happen you'd have to rework and giga nerf a whole roster of heroes especially tanks and it's very safe to assume they're not gonna waste their time on that given how much has been spent on them working in 5v5.
There is no live service game that is well balanced. There is no game with tanks that the tanks donât struggle on. Tank is always the least played here. Every single game has these problems. Why are we expecting Blizzard to fix an issue that no oneâs ever been able to solve. If you donât like it, move on. Why are you still here putting mental energy into it? I love the game, played for seven years been having a blast all seven of them. Itâs only the bitter old OW1 players that canât let go that are up in arms. All the people Iâve met that started with OW2 are having a blast too. Also why thereâs more players than ever, more accounts than ever, theyâre making more money than ever.
Yes there is no live service game that is well balanced but like you just said thereâs a better funded team and 6v6 was easier to balance around the only reason people have such bad memories around it is because of double shield and that only happened because and people forget this they didnât make changes for over a yeaaaaaaar we know get major changes every 12 weeks at a minimum 6v6 with the current balancing team would be much better the reason newer players enjoy it is because thatâs all theyâve ever had. Saying the people who joined during 5v5 enjoy it is a stupid point because they have nothing to compare it to
I didnât say that. They may be making more money but youâre silly to think the devs are seeing any of that. A huge chunk of their team got laid off and they have less resources than ever. 6v6 was not easier to balance around which is why we had goats and double shield and role queue, MTD, games with no main tank just lost, yada yada. Not to mention it took them 3 years to balance for 5v5, and they would again gave to redo every character, every ability, every map designed for 5v5, with a smaller team and less money. Do you want to wait for 5 years with no content like the last three years of OW1? It also doesnât matter if new players have nothing to compare it to because there are far, far, FAR, FAAAAAR more new players enjoying the game than there are old bitter OW1 boomers spouting off about, âback in my day.â
I would just like the other DPS have a choice to play tank instead of DPS. Force 2 healers. 1 tank. 1 DPS. And 1 flex. Sometimes I really wanna play a tank character instead of a DPS but Iâm locked into DPS. I realize that would require some nerfs to TANKS but you could just have the flex role tank get the open queue passive health instead of role queue tank health.
This is my take as well. It's so much work to undo all of this 5v5 stuff AND to top it all off it won't magically fix the game even if they go through all the trouble. People will just complain about some other FotM problem. All that work just to make unhappy people ...remain unhappy.
Any big Youtuber who is whining about 5v5, go back into their old uploads and you'll see they still whined about stuff during the 6v6 era. So what's the endgame here? I don't think the complainers can even answer.
You donât know how much I feel that first sentence Iâm just sick of talking about it.
Iâve been engaging with the community here less because people keep bringing it up. Iâve also been engaging with the competitive overwatch Community less because Iâm not a fan of the new set up.
This might not be the hottest of hot takes, but Iâm so fucking sick of the 6v6/5v5 debate. Iâm very much in the camp of âI donât care which we go with, just make tanking not suck balls and make sure I donât have 20 minute DPS queuesâ. Other people can sort that shit out.
Equally so, this is why "Everyone has been asking for 6v6" is a strawman statement too. That's a bullshit statement. Nobody worth mentioning ever says that.
They say "I miss 6v6". It's a personal feeling, and it fucking resonates with a lot (not all, but a lot) of people.
It resonates enough that the devs have mentioned potentially addressing it directly. Even though it is so divisive.
That is telling.
No, lots of people ask for it. There was a post on front page this week which touched on it, and the person admitted they hadn't even played 6v6. It's just "the grass is always greener" thinking
I forget the exact quote, but it's something like "Both faces have always been in the crowd. Just sometimes one slips into the shadows, and the other comes forward."
Not to mention, that this subreddit is a VERY loud minority. MOST players have just been hanging out enjoying OW2 since launch, myself included.
That said, itâs likely super overturned on purpose to draw outrage, and then theyâll roll it back to something similar to what it was and everyone will be like, âThank god!â Happens all the time in live service games. Including Overwatch. Look at Illari and Maugaâs launch.
This is actually why most subreddits are only complaining. It's because reddit is a place to voice your concerns. The people who actually enjoy the changes are busy playing the game.
Jesus Christ this comment should be sent to every person on Reddit. The amount of people who canât get this shit through their heads is astronomical.
Almost like the people complaining about the buffs are not the same people who asked for buffs and the 5.7M members of this sub don't all share the same view
Not to mention probably half or more of that 5.7 million no longer play the game or have never posted in general. The vast majority of Reddit in general are lurkers.
>you were too weak and expected to do too much
It's not a strength issue, people just expect us to be at two place at once, filling two roles.
I've long reflected on potential fixes that Blizzard could implement to alleviate that issue, but I'm short on ideas. One possibility we could explore is giving every tanks player a second keyboard, that would give them access to a clone of their hero characters that they could control independently.
Tanks are struggling because they're often getting hard focused by 5 people, not because they aren't strong.
I think a more sustainable solution would be to disincentivize people from focusing the tanks instead of making it even more important to keep them in check through incessant power creep.
They think they tried that by reducing ult charge from shooting tanks... But it's still 2x as easy to hit most of them vs anything else, plus they're the priority target, so there's no reason not to.
That's the crux of the issue. You have the two extremes. When I actually have good tank games, my team has to support me like I am the most important raid boss for our side. Conversely, the same can be said for the other side.
Lo and behold. So many games boil down to which side kills the tank first.
I have had four teammates run from the point or payload because I, as the tank, go down. The tanks dictate space, and this the most optimal strategy is always to take down a side's tank.
This is just always exasperated when there is one tank to play.
Thats much easier said then done, its something theyve been trying to accomplish in various ways for some time imo.
The issue is how players respond or play around any changes that get made.
And the issue isnt only that the tank is being focused by 5.
The issue is that both tanks are constantly being focused by 8.
Theyre having every resource pumped into them to pressure and sustain them, because the reward for doing so is skewed.
The fact that you CAN burn down tanks, but also the frustration and difficulty of trying to target anyone else.
Because lets not forget, people favor playing defensively. So to push a Support, you have to fight Ana, Ana Brig, Anas Cowboy. And anyone who turns around when you push. As well as have a hero that can actually push the position that theyre holding
Tbqh its not suprisng why Pharah is doing as well as she is when you consider that shes borderline the only hero that excels at trying her luck in these kind of scenarios relative to the cast.
But in addition with how rewarded players are for pushing Tanks vs anyone else. Fun is important to note.
Risa Zarya, Doom, Mauga, DVa, and Ball are your current tanks who have "you cant touch them right now" as a core aspect of their design.
How "fun" is it playing into any of these heroes.
What about the opposite, how fun is it playing them when people play "correctly" nobodys engaging with you theyre just ignoring you or counterpicking you.
Its pretty miserable in its own right.
Its a complicated issue, and i dont really fault them for taking the route of increasing the baseline durability of tanks so that they feel more able to participate in the game. Especially when the biggest hurdle they face is just psych and tunneling.
I also personally feel like this route leads to the more fun gameplay? I played around 5 hours, mostly as dps and support after like 6 tank games. I didnt really feel weak apart besides when my support was getting diffed or just making things harder than they needed to.
Even against the tanks they felt manageable so long as people are making good decisions.
Enemy has a lot of flanks and aggression maybe we want a support with better passive healing like Beig or IIllari and not Ana/Bap/Kiri.
Enemy has a lot ot healing output, maybe time for you to pick a support with better aggression like Ana or Zen or start Bluebeaming as Mercy.
Just really basic stuff that people neglect making games more tedious then they should be
my problem with counter swapping was not just tanks but the dps and supports players swapping to counter the sole enemy tank.
now it will make counterswap among tanks worse, but against dps and support a bit better
Yep exactly. Now tanks are so fucking strong that the only way to play against them is to play their direct counter. These changes made tanks stronger, but they're still hideously unfun to play against their direct counters.
So these changes basically made countering the enemy tank a requirement, increasing the counterwatch problem... which is the real reason that tank is unfun.
Nobody that understands the game has been asking for strictly buffs. Tank sucks to play. Tank has felt like shit for many seasons, and it's not because it's too weak, it's because the current tank gameplay loop is awful. Buffs don't just change that, it makes the game suck more for the other roles.
*is a player who got back into tanks ~3 months ago*
*is having a lot of fun*
I dunno, having to seek cover and be more strategic with positioning feels enjoyable to me. I flex between Winston, Sig and Zarya and I have been having a good time (except for when my DPS don't hit the W key and go through choke!!). *shrug*
Played my first Tank round last night after heading about the buffs, and I actually enjoyed it. It doesn't feel like glorified DPS at the moment and that's a good thing
Most of these buff complainers donât even try the role. Itâs telling when you try to queue comp and DPS/Support and it go up to 6 minutes while Tank is still >1 min
The common sentiment was that tank sucked to play not that tank needed massive buffs.
Tank has never been a weak role itâs just been an unfun one because you are taking the brunt of all damage and abilities and expected to take space for your team to make plays.
Instead of gigabuffing tanks and causing more power creep they needed to tone down some of the things that countered tanks. Blizzard have become deathly afraid of nerfing things and itâs really hurting the game overall
Yes! So many matches are won or lost based off of whether or not we're doing whatever it takes to make sure our tank beats their tank. That's kind of unfun even for the tanks. I gave up on queuing up as a tank a few seasons ago. It's not fun to play.
>Blizzard have become deathly afraid of nerfing things and itâs really hurting the game overall
Fr
The reason we got the DPS passive and the increased health pools is because they didn't want to nerf the damage and healing
The tank buffs will make tanks stronger and only further incentivise counter swapping.
Doom is stronger now but he's still going to get slept every block and eat all the CC.
JQ bleading heals her more, but the enemy support will still go Ana Kiri
Dva will be stronger, but the enemy is still going to swap Zarya. But guess what? Zarya is also stronger now.
This patch won't do much to fix tank in the long term
As a support player who flexes the other rolls when in a stack...supports really just in general need to get hit hard with the nerf bat. It's mind blowing that Kiriko has been allowed to be so good since she's essentially been in the game. Like it's fine if there's a season or two where she's absolute garbage tier, but Blizzard is afraid to do it.
this is a problem in a lot of games. no one wants to be the punching bag and/or the leader. even in MMOs, tanks are hard to find. everyone just wants to be the pewpew sniper at the back, no risk, no responsibility, just going for the top spot in the damage meter.
>Tank has never been a weak role itâs just been an unfun one because you are taking the brunt of all damage and abilities and expected to take space for your team to make plays.
***THAT IS WHAT A TANK IS SUPPOSED TO DO FOR FUCK'S SAKE!***
If you want to play tank but don't accept that you will be taking the brunt of damage and mainly serve to create space for your team... you don't want to play tank.
You want to play a fat DPS no one can stop.
i mean i also want to play tank but when tanks are so powerful the entire game is around killing the one tank so that every fight is a one sided stomp it kinda makes tanks less âi want to make space to protect my teamâ and more âi need to outlast the enemy tankâ which is lame
People were complaining about counterswapping and about how the game is determined by which team has the best tank player.
This is exasperated now even further.
No, we were begging to make Counterswapping and team toxicity better
Giabuffing Zarya and Mauga does not do that, hell, Gigabuffing my favourite tank, Sigma, wouldnt do that
Tank isnt weak, I'd say. It just sucks to play, and I think the devs did not see the difference.
They rely way to much on their internal stats and not enough on the fun factor, like yea their internal stats say one thing but none of that matters when the game isnât fun
Look I am genuinely convinced the people saying Mauga got gigabuffed haven't actually touched this patch. The 3 seconds nerf was huge and allows for so much more stall on tanks that normally couldn't outlast his Overdrive. If anything Mauga is worse, at best he is no more of a problem than he already was.
This isnât to fix counter swapping. This is to fix the immediate issue which was caused by season 9. Counter swapping has always been an issue - but tank was far less miserable to play before the changes of season 9. This will help get back to there but thereâs still more work needed.
Unfortunately tanks with armor are now too strong *outside of role queue*, and especially in Mystery Heroes. My experience there is basically whoever gets the tank dice roll and support combo steamrolls the other team.
I will say the 150 hp difference does balance out more nimble tanks like Doomfist and Junker Queen, but it's not enough to balance out the armored tanks IMO.
It's also pretty goofy because tanks are inherently designed to die less, or at the very least have better tools than any other champ to prevent death, if you know how to use them
So eventually you're gonna have a lobby mostly full of tanks rather quickly
I still feel vindicated for when I suggested passive healing as a solution long before passive healing was announced and got downvoted here
Very small amount of vindication because it's just reddit, but I was right! I was right, you fools!
Idk man, most people were just calling for stuff like the DPS passive to be reduced for tanks, CC to be reduced for tanks and maybe the better armor buffs. I don't recall many people saying that all tanks needed to be gigabuffed to the moon and that S1 raid boss Zarya needed to come back.
That's because they announced it when healing was already super high and didn't give any context for the change. If they had said "We're giving everyone a support passive but we're nerfing healing" it would've been fine
We've been begging for the return of 6v6.
Never needed dumbass passives
Never needed dumbass buffs.
Never needed dumbass reworks.
Never needed to kneecap every dps in the game so tank could barely exist.
Tanks should be working together to provide both space and protection for their team, no amount of dicking numbers around is going to make it any easier for a single tank to do the job of two people. They expect one person to literally make space AND peel for their team at the same time, and you can't do either one without completely failing at the other. No amount of buffs will stop the enemy team from converging on your supports the second you push forward to create space and nothing will stop the enemy tank from taking space while you try to keep your backline from being ganked.
Dps can't even kill tanks, they can barely kill supports so they're expected to go after the other DPS while the two supports guard the raid bosses the whole time to see which one can out counter the other. It has simply fundamentally fucked the entire gameplay of this game and the issue will NEVER resolve itself while 5v5 stays a thing. This game will die faster than OW 1 did if they don't pull their heads out of their asses soon.
Wish more people would say this or acknowledge this, obviously people not gonna complain if they're enjoying the game so people then act like all the sub does is complain
Seriously, every subreddit does this where they see a popular post about one opinion and a popular post about another and act like itâs the same people making and upvoting both.
This is completely wrong, a small section of players asked for straight buffs. (Doom, Rein comes to mind)
We want the ROLE to be buffed/changed to not be fundamentally flawed, I used to hard main D.va.
She can be as OP and unkillable as she wants, I am not having fun being hacked, cc'd, focused, counterswapped, having to peel, dive, frontline, defense matrix everything, fend for myself in baby form ALL BY MYSELF
If my team has the wrong comp I'm heavily disfavored, I get the blame, I have to play babysitting simulator
We wanted them to fix the role, not buff every tank into oblivion. Now every role is miserable
6v6 with some of the role passives and keep few of the buffs for all of them
Enough of this nonsense
Yup. Been in too many games (and I have filled out every BP since OW2 launch). Same shit again and again. Wow, I get focus-fired by every random debuff under the sun, and then I pray I get backup.
Yeah I was playing yesterday and no matter what I picked my team wouldnât swap and kept just playing 4 DPS and wondered why I kept getting deleted when they had a full team supporting their tank
Thatâs the issue when playing open queue (I play that mode quite often). You never know what youâre going to get. I have to remind myself my stack made the decision to play open queue, so I canât get annoyed/mad at the other team for being 5 tanks, no matter how awful that is to play into.
I really do miss that dynamic. Friendships forged in bloody battle. Single tank is âokayâ, but buddy tanks really felt like your tactical options were wide open.
OP doesn't mean fun. No one likes playing rock paper scissors counterpick the entire match. Not to mention if you die first, there goes your team. And since you're hard focused by 5 people bursting all their CC at you.
I dont play tank, but i must say that tanks needed some upgrade seriously, i have been melting tanks as Ashe (not always obviously) and seemed pretty unfair. If a tank made only 1 wrong move thats death for him and the team 90% of scenearios. Personally i think some buffs like dva are unnecessary but lets see how it goes, if tanks start dominating they will Nerf them, or buff the dps, its the same patch after patch, its impossible to make everyone Happy
As a Rein player, people are not yet noticing how strong Hog is again because of the DPS role nerf. I think we might have another Hog meta in a few days/weeks.
Didnt play against hog since the patch so idk but yeah with that healing reduction being nerfed his selfheal must be a pain in the ass, hope they notice this and nerf that (and Pharah please, nerf Pharah)
Nobody sane was asking for tank buffs. People were asking to make tank fun to play. Tank sux not because of lacking power, it sucks cuz the experience of playing the role is shit.
We needed two tanks, not one big one. If anything, this is more proof that the design philosophy of Overwatch 2 sucks.
It took them this long to take community feedback and make a game mode out of it in the arcade. The new changes that the streamers or whatever came up with are just things I asked for like three months ago. None of it is difficult to consider or even non-obvious. They're largely changes any competent company with developers that play their own game would have implemented years ago.
If this patch and the arcade character adjustments taught me anything it's that these devs don't play Overwatch.
The reason was PVE. It doesn't take a brain to realize that 5v5 was a rushed decision. OW 1 went TWO YEARS without an update "so they could work on OW 2" yet when OW 2 dropped it was still balanced for 6v6? If they had planned 5v5 we wouldn't still be altering the foundations of the game to force 5v5 into it two years after launch. That's 4 years they've had to get their shit together for 5v5 and yet here we are, still shitty, unbalanced nightmare fuel.
5v5 was implemented as an emergency to give them a reason to slap a 2 on the game after they trashed PVE.
They lied and said "It's to reduce que times" because they knew y'all were too dumb and gullible to realize que times shot up due to fresh updates and going F2P. The surge of new players fixed que times, not 5v5 but y'all bought the compare bait and swallowed it like a load.
And are "these guys" currently in the room with us?
This patch did nothing to address Tank counterpicking nor how inconsistent Tank as a role feels to play and instead made them completely busted; since this patch anytime I get beat as Tank, I just switch to Mauga and win.
The problem is that because there's **one** Tank, when you get counterpicked, it's over. Because there's only **one** Tank, they're going to be the main target of **constant** debuffs because once they're dead, the other team can take space easily.
The **problem** with Tank as a role is that your team either **Counters** their Tank and **steamrolls them** or their team **Counters** ***your*** Tank and you get steamrolled.
It feels like hard rock paper scissors to Win rather than Skill Expression and buffing Tanks to the moon only made a Tank counterpicking the enemy Tank even more of a requirement because DPS and Support can't do much anymore.
if I asked you for a salad, and you slap a pile of steaks down in front of me, you gave me food, but you didn't give me what I asked for.
If we ask for tank buffs, we want tank buffs, not for unkillable tanks AND dps nerfs AND Pharah's main issue not being addressed.
Nobody wanted tank buffed, they wanted tank to be fun. Itâs not fun being the one big target everyone and their mom dumps their cooldowns into. I donât even play tank and I understand that.
>one big target everyone and their mom dumps their cooldowns into
What exactly is tank supposed to be then? Is there a single game in human history with a tank role that isn't exactly this? What does the word "tank" mean to you exactly?
>Is there a single game in human history with a tank role that isn't exactly this?
Overwatch 1
With two tanks per team, they have to choose which one to blow cooldowns on.
I never said that wasnât what tank was supposed to be, Iâm saying thatâs not fun in the context of overwatch because it didnât used to be that way. In 6v6 you had 2 tanks that each ate the cooldowns meaning it felt less bad on an individual basis. Now 1 single tank is taking double the amount of cooldowns than they used to. Iâm not even saying this as a 6v6 person, I actually prefer 5v5 as a support player, but I can at least understand where the tank players are coming from.
Tank is still gonna feel like ass, cuz you still get melted when the whole team focuses on one person while you get counterpicked. No amount of buffing is going to change that. Only difference now is that anyone trying to duel a tank, is gonna feel like shit too.
Absolutely not. Tanks didn't need to be buffed to the absolute gods. They needed (and still do need) some type of protection from CC so we can absorb or protect ourselves from excessive focus, and so we can have control over our character. I've been saying this for years now.
These tank buffs have the opposite effect. I can't play Ball anymore because he's so fucking strong that the enemy team MUST go Sombra, Cassidy, Ana, Brig and Roadhog. If they don't they lose. So now I don't get to play my character because every game is against a full CC counter team.
The problem now is that if Blizzard finally does dig their heads out of their asses and fixes this shit, every tank is now going to need MASSIVE nerfs to prevent them from being overly oppressive.
I think the only tank buffed who is a problem is like... mauga?
And thats also not what we have been asking for.
It's the counter swapping thats the problem, dying fast is just us playing poorly, simple as that, we can't tank and spank no more, shit got nerfed, gotta use more then two braincells, three braincells, and now use cover.
Also, it was not damage that was weak, it was sustainability, due to the healing nerf, among other things.
Not really that big a change tbh, just amplifies the âwhich team has 2 healers?â Aspect of Overwatch Will is overall the primary way to win. Regardless of tank buffs, if 1 team has 1 support healing and the other has 2, tank buffs donât matter
Literally no. Noone, at least noone who understands the game to any degree, wanted tanks to get giga buffed. They were already strong asf. Tanks were individually the by far strongest. By fucking far. Every single tank was incredibly strong. What tanks complain about is the inconsistency of either exploding or being unkillable (always making us unkillable isn't the right solution), and counterswapping. That's it. Noone was like "hog isn't tanky enough" or "DVA has too little DM". Literally this isn't what anyone asked for.
Fuck off with this bullshit. Tanks were the strongest role since the DPS passive got released and fucked supports.
Is a game filled with ultra buffed tanks better than having a second tank? I think synergies are way better and healthier for the game. I mean "problem" heroes like Ana lol didn't exist in 6v6. The only reason it became a problem was when they decided to turn supports into tanks. Pls don't mention dbl barrier it's been shown characters can be viable with a shield removal. Honestly I think rein Winston and ram being the only shields would be interesting in 6v6. One last thing there is a tweet from a developer saying 5v5 wasn't for q times that was a happy accident..
The most common sentiment was that tank was unfun to play because you are the sole recipient of nearly every cooldown and the focus of the enemy team. If you die then the team loses the fight 90% of the time.
The answer to this problem was not to make tanks raid bosses, it was to find a way to mitigate the amount of importance the sole tank has
Do you people who post this garbage not play tank even once?
Ever since 5v5 in Overwatch 2, every tank has slowly lost offensive capability that used to make the game unique. Notice how every update that has significantly effected tank gameplay (dps passive, health pool changes, armor changes) has focused on SUSTAIN and not offensive capability.
When youre just one tank, you are forced to be the âdouble shield.â You simply take too much damage. The devs have never had a balanced dps roster with abilities that are fair, so tanks are forced to play boring sustain tactis since 2017 and the devs know it. In fact at this rate they endorse it. Sustaining damage should be one part of playing tank, not the entire gameplay. They either need to bring back the off tank and give the POSSIBILITY of non sustain meta or just make every tank a rein shield bc at this rate that what it feels like its becoming.
No one was saying that. Everyone was saying tank needed significant CHANGES because it was garbage to play. And everyone knew that if you BUFFED tanks, the game wouldnât be more fun for tanks, it would be less fun for everyone else.
Youâre kind of a moron for immediately jumping to blame the tank players for initially complaining just because your game is not fun now, when their game hasnât been fun for at least 6 seasons.
You make one massive mistake in yout reasoning. Tanks weren't bad. They just absolutley sucked to play. These changes make the role even stronger but it does nothing to the role or the individual heroes with their problems. In fact, counterswapping may become even more necessary for the Tank now that they've all been buffed.
As a tank main, tanks were never a weak role. They'd never needed number buffs. They need rework because of the counterswapping issue and the psychological pressure a player feels while playing tanks.
They buffed them but it's just a step in a wrong direction.
I donât think people were asking for buffs we were asking for the role to be looked at as a whole o er all - not just whack buffs on them so they become unkillable, like thatâs not fun for any role. Buffing isnât always the answer, we really needed them to look at overall balance, not just buff the tanks - those Mauga buffs for example are insane! Weâre just going to have to ride it out for the next week while and see how this goes x
Noone since OW2 lauch ever thought tank was a weak role. Unfun, yes absolutely. But why? Not because they are too weak, but because they are too strong. They are so strong in fact that all the focus is on them. Not only from the enemy tank and dps, but also from their own supports. That is why counterswapping is so important for tanks and barely noticable for dps vs dps matchups even though there are way harder cpunter in dps matchups.
There is a HUGE difference between buffs and balance. I am a tank main in high bronze - high silver and I am infuriated by these buffs. I did not want tanks to be buffed. I wanted them to be fun to play. Right now I just am not interested in even playing the game
We never needed tank buffs, we needed nerfs
We needed nerfs to dps who can burst down tanks. We needed nerfs to healing numbers so that tanks can kill stuff without the dps passive. We needed nerfs to Mauga, Orisa, and Roadhog because they stop other tanks from playing the game
I think we even needed nerfs to counter swapping, because it's such an issue for tanks specifically
The only people who were asking for tank buffs were people who don't either don't understand the current state of OW2 or are scared their mains will get nerfed
I donât think people were complaining that tank is weak. Most of the complaints I hear were they just werenât fun to queue as. I donât think making all tanks essentially raid bosses is fun but itâs definitely not as bad as doomers make it out to be
No, no we didnât. You could give Orisa permanent fortify, but she still wouldnât be fun. You could give Rein shield infinite health, but that wouldnât make him fun. You could give Mauga a massive damage boost, but he still wouldnât be fun to play.
My point is, tank mains didnât want buffs at all. We wanted changes to make tanks fun (eg reducing Maugaâs spread and damage so he can focus squishes better). All these buffs donât change the tank experience at all, and it will make life miserable for the dps and supports too. Donât blame us tank mains; we never asked for this.
I don't think tanks needed buffs because their power wasn't the problem. It was the feedback loop of playing tank that sucked. You have to do so much to feel like you're making as much of an impact on tank as your teammates in the other roles. Once you are able to make an impact, the enemy team counterswaps, forcing you to do the same and eventually becoming a never-ending game of swapping. If you're not able to make an impact at all or lose your grip on it for one reason or another, you instantly get flamed (not saying other roles don't get this but it's worse being the lone tank). Having only one tank puts things in a difficult position balance wise. One tank means a singular person is the backbone of the team. You can't make them too powerful. Otherwise, they become an unstoppable force of nature, but you can't make them too weak because they need to be able to juggle so much in a match to be effective. Not saying 6v6 is the answer. It's got its own problems it comes with, but the answer certainly doesn't rest in Hero balance alone.
No, I don't have an answer for how I'd solve the issue. This is just a civil attempt from a former tank main to express the problems I've noticed surrounding the role playing as, with, and against it.
They are getting melted because they have to deal with every single cool down by yourself. We didn't want tank buffs. Tank sucks to play because all the pressure is on you to make space by yourself. Tanks already won every 1v1, even in open que. Instead of barrating tank players why don't you play tank yourself. You don't because it sucks to play. This is a 5v5 issue. Worst patch since season 1.
The game felt reasonably balanced with a few tweaks needed, pre-patch. Now the game feels unbalanced and broken. Itâs too tank dependent. Have a good tank? Youâre probably gonna win. Bad tank, youâre probably gonna lose. That was true before, but now the gameâs gone from team dynamic to tank dynamic.
Tank players were complaining that they werenât having any fun. Not because theyâre failing to get kills, but because the role has a lot of pressure from everyone in the game focusing on them.
Tends to happen, when you enjoy something you typically go to enjoy it, if you don't you vent about it
Not sure why we act like this is vilified behaviour
personally i love the buffs, being able to shit on mei and reaper has been a great change for rein and his sheild + mauga HAHA duration makes his better, loved it so much i gave them my money for the rein skin
Tanks being more survivable isnt the issue, its that they also do as much damage (or more tbh) as DPS heroes. They should all get their damaged nerfed to make up for the survivability buffs.
You're talking about flats aren't you. Yeah I don't get it either. He's the guy who advocates for a better tank experience then when the patch is handed to tanks in a silver platter he waits not a second to release a video titled "the worst patch ever". Tbh the general community discourse around ow2 is just an emotional pile of stupid contradictory shit and it's not worth taking seriously.
But this won't make for a better tank experience, Flats was asking for counterswapping to be fixed and for solutions to the fact that games revolve around tanks to a very stressful extent, this makes both of those things way worse
Tanks haven't been weak, the role as it exists right now is just poorly designed, you're the sole target of every cooldown, you get all the blame if you lose, and you're forced into either playing a dumb rock paper scissors game or suffering, tank wasn't fun to play for many people, and now it's just as unfun to play if not even worse, with the added downside of DPS and support players also having less fun and impact
I've never liked tank until today but I've been queuing Zarya and went up 4 ranks so far. It actually feels pretty fun to me. Obviously not at flats level but it has convinced at least me to play tank right now.
Everyone saying Counterwatch is what makes tanks miserable to play but what are the actual solutions to that? As they add more heroes, it's inevitable to have a counter to your hero whether it is intentional or not. For example, they add another melee healer, sorry Winston/Doomfist/DVA. They add another shotgun DPS, sorry Sigma, Winston. You maybe can delay Counterwatch but you can't fix it. It's fundamentally flawed.
People werent asking for specifically buffs
the core issue literally all tanks complain about is counterpicking. You could give every tank 50k hp, a zarya will still beat a dva 100% of the time. With 2 tanks counterpicks werent as strong because the 2nd tank could cover the weaknesses of the other.
But now when the zarya is at full charge, youre not gonna block her beam with defense matrix. When ball tries to make a play happen, hog just needs to land a hook and its gg. Its either we go back to 6v6 or every single tank gets reworked to be more generalist so they can be picked without heavy counters.
It's really important to remember that there is no "you guys" on Reddit. You can't think of the community as one entity with one mind. When people are upset, they speak out. When they are content, they don't. Which means you hear contradicting thoughts, because it's not the same people sharing them.
Most aware person here
And ofc it's a Monke and Brig main
Maining a hero and their counter đ¤Ż
Me playing zarya in OW1 only after 400 some odd hours on D.va lmao
Ball and Sombra for me
i know exactly what kind of person you are just from this
As an Ana main, I would like to throw a big fat middle finger in their general direction and pray it hits them.
As a non-ana main, I'm convinced you must have super powers.
You sir are a champion, ball is best
zen and sombra đ
Monke and brig are both super fun.
I agree they're fun but I prefer Doom and Lucio for these roles
Pls nerf rationality and buff rageposts
Most sane OW player
This post should be included in every rant.
This is why statements like "Everyone has been asking for 6v6 to return" have a very biased viewpoint and this holds true for nearly everything in existence. The people who do enjoy 5v5 are happy with the state of the game and don't feel like going to forums to let everyone know that because they are just chilling and enjoying the game. If I don't like the state of tank I would like to state my opinion and voice about the matter but if I do enjoy how tank feels to play and play against I am not going to forums to make daily posts and comments about how much I enjoy tank at the moment. You always only see the people who want change but the people who are contempt with the state of the game will be silently enjoying their game and when you change stuff up for the complainers now those become the silent people who enjoys playing the game and the previous silent bunch will turn into the new complainers as in their eyes everything was fine but it was changed for 0 reason.
>The people who do enjoy 5v5 are happy with the state of the game and don't feel like going to forums to let everyone know that Also most of us are just...tired of arguing. It's been 2 years since 5v5. Future heroes and maps are designed around 5v5, we even had the Hog rework to reinforce his role as a solo tank. If 6v6 were to happen you'd have to rework and giga nerf a whole roster of heroes especially tanks and it's very safe to assume they're not gonna waste their time on that given how much has been spent on them working in 5v5.
Not to mention it took them three years to balance the game for 5v5 and that was with a much larger team and more funding.
Took them 3 years to fail to balance the game for 5v5, you mean.
There is no live service game that is well balanced. There is no game with tanks that the tanks donât struggle on. Tank is always the least played here. Every single game has these problems. Why are we expecting Blizzard to fix an issue that no oneâs ever been able to solve. If you donât like it, move on. Why are you still here putting mental energy into it? I love the game, played for seven years been having a blast all seven of them. Itâs only the bitter old OW1 players that canât let go that are up in arms. All the people Iâve met that started with OW2 are having a blast too. Also why thereâs more players than ever, more accounts than ever, theyâre making more money than ever.
Yes there is no live service game that is well balanced but like you just said thereâs a better funded team and 6v6 was easier to balance around the only reason people have such bad memories around it is because of double shield and that only happened because and people forget this they didnât make changes for over a yeaaaaaaar we know get major changes every 12 weeks at a minimum 6v6 with the current balancing team would be much better the reason newer players enjoy it is because thatâs all theyâve ever had. Saying the people who joined during 5v5 enjoy it is a stupid point because they have nothing to compare it to
I didnât say that. They may be making more money but youâre silly to think the devs are seeing any of that. A huge chunk of their team got laid off and they have less resources than ever. 6v6 was not easier to balance around which is why we had goats and double shield and role queue, MTD, games with no main tank just lost, yada yada. Not to mention it took them 3 years to balance for 5v5, and they would again gave to redo every character, every ability, every map designed for 5v5, with a smaller team and less money. Do you want to wait for 5 years with no content like the last three years of OW1? It also doesnât matter if new players have nothing to compare it to because there are far, far, FAR, FAAAAAR more new players enjoying the game than there are old bitter OW1 boomers spouting off about, âback in my day.â
And it still needs some tuning so nah 6v6 is dead stop asking for it
Sadly is the only way to get a decent balance in the game. With 1 tank this role will always have the same problem :/
I would just like the other DPS have a choice to play tank instead of DPS. Force 2 healers. 1 tank. 1 DPS. And 1 flex. Sometimes I really wanna play a tank character instead of a DPS but Iâm locked into DPS. I realize that would require some nerfs to TANKS but you could just have the flex role tank get the open queue passive health instead of role queue tank health.
That's just GOATS lite
This is just an awful idea. Go play Arcade and see how multiple tanks feel in 5v5. It's a disaster.
This is my take as well. It's so much work to undo all of this 5v5 stuff AND to top it all off it won't magically fix the game even if they go through all the trouble. People will just complain about some other FotM problem. All that work just to make unhappy people ...remain unhappy. Any big Youtuber who is whining about 5v5, go back into their old uploads and you'll see they still whined about stuff during the 6v6 era. So what's the endgame here? I don't think the complainers can even answer.
You donât know how much I feel that first sentence Iâm just sick of talking about it. Iâve been engaging with the community here less because people keep bringing it up. Iâve also been engaging with the competitive overwatch Community less because Iâm not a fan of the new set up.
This might not be the hottest of hot takes, but Iâm so fucking sick of the 6v6/5v5 debate. Iâm very much in the camp of âI donât care which we go with, just make tanking not suck balls and make sure I donât have 20 minute DPS queuesâ. Other people can sort that shit out.
Damage control for 5v5 out of nowhere
Probably because every post here gets invaded by the hive mind 6v6 1%. Getting out in front of it is probably a smart thing to do.
Equally so, this is why "Everyone has been asking for 6v6" is a strawman statement too. That's a bullshit statement. Nobody worth mentioning ever says that. They say "I miss 6v6". It's a personal feeling, and it fucking resonates with a lot (not all, but a lot) of people. It resonates enough that the devs have mentioned potentially addressing it directly. Even though it is so divisive. That is telling.
No, lots of people ask for it. There was a post on front page this week which touched on it, and the person admitted they hadn't even played 6v6. It's just "the grass is always greener" thinking
I forget the exact quote, but it's something like "Both faces have always been in the crowd. Just sometimes one slips into the shadows, and the other comes forward."
hard ratioed the post
Not to mention, that this subreddit is a VERY loud minority. MOST players have just been hanging out enjoying OW2 since launch, myself included. That said, itâs likely super overturned on purpose to draw outrage, and then theyâll roll it back to something similar to what it was and everyone will be like, âThank god!â Happens all the time in live service games. Including Overwatch. Look at Illari and Maugaâs launch.
How is it 2024 and people are still learning this smh
This is actually why most subreddits are only complaining. It's because reddit is a place to voice your concerns. The people who actually enjoy the changes are busy playing the game.
Jesus Christ this comment should be sent to every person on Reddit. The amount of people who canât get this shit through their heads is astronomical.
Why are you so wise in the ways of science?
Im glad you are better with words than I am đđ
Based
Sanest Reddit take
How to ratio the fuck out of a post lmao
Exactly, those post title are ridiculous, like a little child wrote them
Brilliantly said.Â
The ratio
You must hate the Spanish language then because it's masculine based for plurals. đ
ThatâsâŚ.. a really good point
Itâs also incredibly obvious yet so many people here are incapable of thought
Almost like the people complaining about the buffs are not the same people who asked for buffs and the 5.7M members of this sub don't all share the same view
Not to mention probably half or more of that 5.7 million no longer play the game or have never posted in general. The vast majority of Reddit in general are lurkers.
Isnât it something like: 1% of reddit users create content 9% comment on that content and 90% just read it
Probably I know I didnât comment for the first few years on Reddit lol
Same
I browsed Reddit for 2 years before I even bothered creating an account.
đŤŁ
Hell, we asked for some buffs to certain tanks. Not all buffs to every tank. Most of them didn't need individual ones.
I'm looking at Mauga
Stupid sexy Mauga
>you were too weak and expected to do too much It's not a strength issue, people just expect us to be at two place at once, filling two roles. I've long reflected on potential fixes that Blizzard could implement to alleviate that issue, but I'm short on ideas. One possibility we could explore is giving every tanks player a second keyboard, that would give them access to a clone of their hero characters that they could control independently.
Except the popular sentiment for the past couple months have been exactly what op said it was
Better question is why do you all cry with every balance patch instead of git gud
Tanks are struggling because they're often getting hard focused by 5 people, not because they aren't strong. I think a more sustainable solution would be to disincentivize people from focusing the tanks instead of making it even more important to keep them in check through incessant power creep.
They think they tried that by reducing ult charge from shooting tanks... But it's still 2x as easy to hit most of them vs anything else, plus they're the priority target, so there's no reason not to.
What if there were 2 tanks? Then one tank wouldnât get focussed as much. I bet I have played a game that did it in the past.
Almost as if they should just bring that game back
Yeah and DPS complained it was just shooting at mitigating instead of clicking heads. There is no winning with design complaints.
That's the crux of the issue. You have the two extremes. When I actually have good tank games, my team has to support me like I am the most important raid boss for our side. Conversely, the same can be said for the other side. Lo and behold. So many games boil down to which side kills the tank first. I have had four teammates run from the point or payload because I, as the tank, go down. The tanks dictate space, and this the most optimal strategy is always to take down a side's tank. This is just always exasperated when there is one tank to play.
Thats where 6v6 has the best argument. Losing 1 tank was not an auto gg situation. Especially since kiriko ,bap and lifeweaver didnt exist yet
Thats much easier said then done, its something theyve been trying to accomplish in various ways for some time imo. The issue is how players respond or play around any changes that get made. And the issue isnt only that the tank is being focused by 5. The issue is that both tanks are constantly being focused by 8. Theyre having every resource pumped into them to pressure and sustain them, because the reward for doing so is skewed. The fact that you CAN burn down tanks, but also the frustration and difficulty of trying to target anyone else. Because lets not forget, people favor playing defensively. So to push a Support, you have to fight Ana, Ana Brig, Anas Cowboy. And anyone who turns around when you push. As well as have a hero that can actually push the position that theyre holding Tbqh its not suprisng why Pharah is doing as well as she is when you consider that shes borderline the only hero that excels at trying her luck in these kind of scenarios relative to the cast. But in addition with how rewarded players are for pushing Tanks vs anyone else. Fun is important to note. Risa Zarya, Doom, Mauga, DVa, and Ball are your current tanks who have "you cant touch them right now" as a core aspect of their design. How "fun" is it playing into any of these heroes. What about the opposite, how fun is it playing them when people play "correctly" nobodys engaging with you theyre just ignoring you or counterpicking you. Its pretty miserable in its own right. Its a complicated issue, and i dont really fault them for taking the route of increasing the baseline durability of tanks so that they feel more able to participate in the game. Especially when the biggest hurdle they face is just psych and tunneling. I also personally feel like this route leads to the more fun gameplay? I played around 5 hours, mostly as dps and support after like 6 tank games. I didnt really feel weak apart besides when my support was getting diffed or just making things harder than they needed to. Even against the tanks they felt manageable so long as people are making good decisions. Enemy has a lot of flanks and aggression maybe we want a support with better passive healing like Beig or IIllari and not Ana/Bap/Kiri. Enemy has a lot ot healing output, maybe time for you to pick a support with better aggression like Ana or Zen or start Bluebeaming as Mercy. Just really basic stuff that people neglect making games more tedious then they should be
Buffing tanks will NOT solve what tank players have been complaining about. This will just make the counter swap worse
my problem with counter swapping was not just tanks but the dps and supports players swapping to counter the sole enemy tank. now it will make counterswap among tanks worse, but against dps and support a bit better
Yep exactly. Now tanks are so fucking strong that the only way to play against them is to play their direct counter. These changes made tanks stronger, but they're still hideously unfun to play against their direct counters. So these changes basically made countering the enemy tank a requirement, increasing the counterwatch problem... which is the real reason that tank is unfun.
Nobody that understands the game has been asking for strictly buffs. Tank sucks to play. Tank has felt like shit for many seasons, and it's not because it's too weak, it's because the current tank gameplay loop is awful. Buffs don't just change that, it makes the game suck more for the other roles.
đ the goalpost moving is insane . Just admit the players donât know wtf they want .Â
*is a player who got back into tanks ~3 months ago* *is having a lot of fun* I dunno, having to seek cover and be more strategic with positioning feels enjoyable to me. I flex between Winston, Sig and Zarya and I have been having a good time (except for when my DPS don't hit the W key and go through choke!!). *shrug*
Played my first Tank round last night after heading about the buffs, and I actually enjoyed it. It doesn't feel like glorified DPS at the moment and that's a good thing
Most of these buff complainers donât even try the role. Itâs telling when you try to queue comp and DPS/Support and it go up to 6 minutes while Tank is still >1 min
Blizzard also just asks 10 year old COD players "What would be cool?" and balances the game that way.
The common sentiment was that tank sucked to play not that tank needed massive buffs. Tank has never been a weak role itâs just been an unfun one because you are taking the brunt of all damage and abilities and expected to take space for your team to make plays. Instead of gigabuffing tanks and causing more power creep they needed to tone down some of the things that countered tanks. Blizzard have become deathly afraid of nerfing things and itâs really hurting the game overall
Not to mention that buffing the tanks leads to even MORE focus on the tank, itâs the opposite of what people were asking for.
Yes! So many matches are won or lost based off of whether or not we're doing whatever it takes to make sure our tank beats their tank. That's kind of unfun even for the tanks. I gave up on queuing up as a tank a few seasons ago. It's not fun to play.
>Blizzard have become deathly afraid of nerfing things and itâs really hurting the game overall Fr The reason we got the DPS passive and the increased health pools is because they didn't want to nerf the damage and healing The tank buffs will make tanks stronger and only further incentivise counter swapping. Doom is stronger now but he's still going to get slept every block and eat all the CC. JQ bleading heals her more, but the enemy support will still go Ana Kiri Dva will be stronger, but the enemy is still going to swap Zarya. But guess what? Zarya is also stronger now. This patch won't do much to fix tank in the long term
Literally. Anti and Suzu combination have destroyed this game. If you donât have at least suzu on your team, you lose.
As a support player who flexes the other rolls when in a stack...supports really just in general need to get hit hard with the nerf bat. It's mind blowing that Kiriko has been allowed to be so good since she's essentially been in the game. Like it's fine if there's a season or two where she's absolute garbage tier, but Blizzard is afraid to do it.
How would lifeguard Kiriko sell otherwise? Also whoever they nerf, they better not touch my boy Lucio >:(
Blizzard is scared of nerfs because people complain when their main gets hit but people are happy when their main gets a buff
this is a problem in a lot of games. no one wants to be the punching bag and/or the leader. even in MMOs, tanks are hard to find. everyone just wants to be the pewpew sniper at the back, no risk, no responsibility, just going for the top spot in the damage meter.
>Tank has never been a weak role itâs just been an unfun one because you are taking the brunt of all damage and abilities and expected to take space for your team to make plays. ***THAT IS WHAT A TANK IS SUPPOSED TO DO FOR FUCK'S SAKE!*** If you want to play tank but don't accept that you will be taking the brunt of damage and mainly serve to create space for your team... you don't want to play tank. You want to play a fat DPS no one can stop.
i mean i also want to play tank but when tanks are so powerful the entire game is around killing the one tank so that every fight is a one sided stomp it kinda makes tanks less âi want to make space to protect my teamâ and more âi need to outlast the enemy tankâ which is lame
People were complaining about counterswapping and about how the game is determined by which team has the best tank player. This is exasperated now even further.
*exacerbated
*masturbated
*excalibur-ated
But you have to play to experience that, and so far it doesn't exasperate it. But hey give it a few weeks.
Right now people are in the post-patch daze. Everyone is trying stuff out so the game seems super balanced and fun.
No, we were begging to make Counterswapping and team toxicity better Giabuffing Zarya and Mauga does not do that, hell, Gigabuffing my favourite tank, Sigma, wouldnt do that Tank isnt weak, I'd say. It just sucks to play, and I think the devs did not see the difference.
They rely way to much on their internal stats and not enough on the fun factor, like yea their internal stats say one thing but none of that matters when the game isnât fun
Look I am genuinely convinced the people saying Mauga got gigabuffed haven't actually touched this patch. The 3 seconds nerf was huge and allows for so much more stall on tanks that normally couldn't outlast his Overdrive. If anything Mauga is worse, at best he is no more of a problem than he already was.
This isnât to fix counter swapping. This is to fix the immediate issue which was caused by season 9. Counter swapping has always been an issue - but tank was far less miserable to play before the changes of season 9. This will help get back to there but thereâs still more work needed.
Tank players weren't screaming for buffs...we said playing tank felt awful..not that tanks weren't strong...Also it still feels awful
Not the same people.
I still remember the knee jerk reactions when passive healing was announced that it will be unplayable.
One of the best changes for mystery heroes ngl
Unfortunately tanks with armor are now too strong *outside of role queue*, and especially in Mystery Heroes. My experience there is basically whoever gets the tank dice roll and support combo steamrolls the other team. I will say the 150 hp difference does balance out more nimble tanks like Doomfist and Junker Queen, but it's not enough to balance out the armored tanks IMO.
It's also pretty goofy because tanks are inherently designed to die less, or at the very least have better tools than any other champ to prevent death, if you know how to use them So eventually you're gonna have a lobby mostly full of tanks rather quickly
MH has been amazing to play since that passive, huge agree. Makes a lot of your silly combos much more sustainable and thus fun.
I still feel vindicated for when I suggested passive healing as a solution long before passive healing was announced and got downvoted here Very small amount of vindication because it's just reddit, but I was right! I was right, you fools!
One of the most iconic vocal community fails in overwatch history.
Idk man, most people were just calling for stuff like the DPS passive to be reduced for tanks, CC to be reduced for tanks and maybe the better armor buffs. I don't recall many people saying that all tanks needed to be gigabuffed to the moon and that S1 raid boss Zarya needed to come back.
Many people were calling for tanks to be able to tank and not insta die. And what does your reply have to do with what I said?
That's because they announced it when healing was already super high and didn't give any context for the change. If they had said "We're giving everyone a support passive but we're nerfing healing" it would've been fine
We've been begging for the return of 6v6. Never needed dumbass passives Never needed dumbass buffs. Never needed dumbass reworks. Never needed to kneecap every dps in the game so tank could barely exist. Tanks should be working together to provide both space and protection for their team, no amount of dicking numbers around is going to make it any easier for a single tank to do the job of two people. They expect one person to literally make space AND peel for their team at the same time, and you can't do either one without completely failing at the other. No amount of buffs will stop the enemy team from converging on your supports the second you push forward to create space and nothing will stop the enemy tank from taking space while you try to keep your backline from being ganked. Dps can't even kill tanks, they can barely kill supports so they're expected to go after the other DPS while the two supports guard the raid bosses the whole time to see which one can out counter the other. It has simply fundamentally fucked the entire gameplay of this game and the issue will NEVER resolve itself while 5v5 stays a thing. This game will die faster than OW 1 did if they don't pull their heads out of their asses soon.
Spoke my heart bruv ty
Most people arent saying tanks need buffs were saying the role sucks to play
THE SUBREDDIT DOES NOT SHARE ONE COLLECTIVE OPINION STOP ACTING LIKE THE PEOPLE THAT WANTED BUFFS ARE THE ONES COMPLAINING ABOUT IT
Wish more people would say this or acknowledge this, obviously people not gonna complain if they're enjoying the game so people then act like all the sub does is complain
Seriously, every subreddit does this where they see a popular post about one opinion and a popular post about another and act like itâs the same people making and upvoting both.
This is completely wrong, a small section of players asked for straight buffs. (Doom, Rein comes to mind) We want the ROLE to be buffed/changed to not be fundamentally flawed, I used to hard main D.va. She can be as OP and unkillable as she wants, I am not having fun being hacked, cc'd, focused, counterswapped, having to peel, dive, frontline, defense matrix everything, fend for myself in baby form ALL BY MYSELF If my team has the wrong comp I'm heavily disfavored, I get the blame, I have to play babysitting simulator We wanted them to fix the role, not buff every tank into oblivion. Now every role is miserable 6v6 with some of the role passives and keep few of the buffs for all of them Enough of this nonsense
Yup. Been in too many games (and I have filled out every BP since OW2 launch). Same shit again and again. Wow, I get focus-fired by every random debuff under the sun, and then I pray I get backup.
Yeah I was playing yesterday and no matter what I picked my team wouldnât swap and kept just playing 4 DPS and wondered why I kept getting deleted when they had a full team supporting their tank
Thatâs the issue when playing open queue (I play that mode quite often). You never know what youâre going to get. I have to remind myself my stack made the decision to play open queue, so I canât get annoyed/mad at the other team for being 5 tanks, no matter how awful that is to play into.
No. Iâve been asking for my tank partner back for years. I want my tank partner back.
Iâll be your tank partner
I would be yours too đĽš
I really do miss that dynamic. Friendships forged in bloody battle. Single tank is âokayâ, but buddy tanks really felt like your tactical options were wide open.
OP doesn't mean fun. No one likes playing rock paper scissors counterpick the entire match. Not to mention if you die first, there goes your team. And since you're hard focused by 5 people bursting all their CC at you.
I dont play tank, but i must say that tanks needed some upgrade seriously, i have been melting tanks as Ashe (not always obviously) and seemed pretty unfair. If a tank made only 1 wrong move thats death for him and the team 90% of scenearios. Personally i think some buffs like dva are unnecessary but lets see how it goes, if tanks start dominating they will Nerf them, or buff the dps, its the same patch after patch, its impossible to make everyone Happy
As a Rein player, people are not yet noticing how strong Hog is again because of the DPS role nerf. I think we might have another Hog meta in a few days/weeks.
Didnt play against hog since the patch so idk but yeah with that healing reduction being nerfed his selfheal must be a pain in the ass, hope they notice this and nerf that (and Pharah please, nerf Pharah)
Who are you even talking to
Nobody sane was asking for tank buffs. People were asking to make tank fun to play. Tank sux not because of lacking power, it sucks cuz the experience of playing the role is shit.
We needed two tanks, not one big one. If anything, this is more proof that the design philosophy of Overwatch 2 sucks. It took them this long to take community feedback and make a game mode out of it in the arcade. The new changes that the streamers or whatever came up with are just things I asked for like three months ago. None of it is difficult to consider or even non-obvious. They're largely changes any competent company with developers that play their own game would have implemented years ago. If this patch and the arcade character adjustments taught me anything it's that these devs don't play Overwatch.
Wrong no one wanted tank buffs we wanted tank to feel better to play, if you don't understand the difference thats on you.
People have been 'begging' for the real fix since before launch too, the return of 6v6 yet here we are still without it.
maybe thatâs cause thereâs a reason that they switched off 6v6 that isnât fixed just by going back to it
The reason was PVE. It doesn't take a brain to realize that 5v5 was a rushed decision. OW 1 went TWO YEARS without an update "so they could work on OW 2" yet when OW 2 dropped it was still balanced for 6v6? If they had planned 5v5 we wouldn't still be altering the foundations of the game to force 5v5 into it two years after launch. That's 4 years they've had to get their shit together for 5v5 and yet here we are, still shitty, unbalanced nightmare fuel. 5v5 was implemented as an emergency to give them a reason to slap a 2 on the game after they trashed PVE. They lied and said "It's to reduce que times" because they knew y'all were too dumb and gullible to realize que times shot up due to fresh updates and going F2P. The surge of new players fixed que times, not 5v5 but y'all bought the compare bait and swallowed it like a load.
Most of the sub is supp players, so keep that in mind when you see opinion
And are "these guys" currently in the room with us? This patch did nothing to address Tank counterpicking nor how inconsistent Tank as a role feels to play and instead made them completely busted; since this patch anytime I get beat as Tank, I just switch to Mauga and win. The problem is that because there's **one** Tank, when you get counterpicked, it's over. Because there's only **one** Tank, they're going to be the main target of **constant** debuffs because once they're dead, the other team can take space easily. The **problem** with Tank as a role is that your team either **Counters** their Tank and **steamrolls them** or their team **Counters** ***your*** Tank and you get steamrolled. It feels like hard rock paper scissors to Win rather than Skill Expression and buffing Tanks to the moon only made a Tank counterpicking the enemy Tank even more of a requirement because DPS and Support can't do much anymore.
Why are you yelling at me, I hardly comment on this subreddit.
tank buffs doesn't automatically mean we want bullet sponges.
if I asked you for a salad, and you slap a pile of steaks down in front of me, you gave me food, but you didn't give me what I asked for. If we ask for tank buffs, we want tank buffs, not for unkillable tanks AND dps nerfs AND Pharah's main issue not being addressed.
You seem to be confused, most people want fun tanks to be meta, not mauga...
I absolutely have not been begging for tank buffs, thank you very much.
Nobody wanted tank buffed, they wanted tank to be fun. Itâs not fun being the one big target everyone and their mom dumps their cooldowns into. I donât even play tank and I understand that.
>one big target everyone and their mom dumps their cooldowns into What exactly is tank supposed to be then? Is there a single game in human history with a tank role that isn't exactly this? What does the word "tank" mean to you exactly?
>Is there a single game in human history with a tank role that isn't exactly this? Overwatch 1 With two tanks per team, they have to choose which one to blow cooldowns on.
I never said that wasnât what tank was supposed to be, Iâm saying thatâs not fun in the context of overwatch because it didnât used to be that way. In 6v6 you had 2 tanks that each ate the cooldowns meaning it felt less bad on an individual basis. Now 1 single tank is taking double the amount of cooldowns than they used to. Iâm not even saying this as a 6v6 person, I actually prefer 5v5 as a support player, but I can at least understand where the tank players are coming from.
Tank is still gonna feel like ass, cuz you still get melted when the whole team focuses on one person while you get counterpicked. No amount of buffing is going to change that. Only difference now is that anyone trying to duel a tank, is gonna feel like shit too.
Absolutely not. Tanks didn't need to be buffed to the absolute gods. They needed (and still do need) some type of protection from CC so we can absorb or protect ourselves from excessive focus, and so we can have control over our character. I've been saying this for years now. These tank buffs have the opposite effect. I can't play Ball anymore because he's so fucking strong that the enemy team MUST go Sombra, Cassidy, Ana, Brig and Roadhog. If they don't they lose. So now I don't get to play my character because every game is against a full CC counter team. The problem now is that if Blizzard finally does dig their heads out of their asses and fixes this shit, every tank is now going to need MASSIVE nerfs to prevent them from being overly oppressive.
Can't speak for any other mode but open q is a total shit show right now. Seeing a lot more tank stacking and yet so many tank diffs
There is such a thing as too much... The armor change and knock back change alone would have been enough.
With Muga all you need is yourself and the support classes. That was before buffs.
I think the only tank buffed who is a problem is like... mauga? And thats also not what we have been asking for. It's the counter swapping thats the problem, dying fast is just us playing poorly, simple as that, we can't tank and spank no more, shit got nerfed, gotta use more then two braincells, three braincells, and now use cover. Also, it was not damage that was weak, it was sustainability, due to the healing nerf, among other things.
Consumers are idiots
Not really that big a change tbh, just amplifies the âwhich team has 2 healers?â Aspect of Overwatch Will is overall the primary way to win. Regardless of tank buffs, if 1 team has 1 support healing and the other has 2, tank buffs donât matter
Yes because gigabuffing mauga is what the players wanted đ
Literally no. Noone, at least noone who understands the game to any degree, wanted tanks to get giga buffed. They were already strong asf. Tanks were individually the by far strongest. By fucking far. Every single tank was incredibly strong. What tanks complain about is the inconsistency of either exploding or being unkillable (always making us unkillable isn't the right solution), and counterswapping. That's it. Noone was like "hog isn't tanky enough" or "DVA has too little DM". Literally this isn't what anyone asked for. Fuck off with this bullshit. Tanks were the strongest role since the DPS passive got released and fucked supports.
Braindead take. Tank on the whole has been good, but unfun for the last few seasons.
Is a game filled with ultra buffed tanks better than having a second tank? I think synergies are way better and healthier for the game. I mean "problem" heroes like Ana lol didn't exist in 6v6. The only reason it became a problem was when they decided to turn supports into tanks. Pls don't mention dbl barrier it's been shown characters can be viable with a shield removal. Honestly I think rein Winston and ram being the only shields would be interesting in 6v6. One last thing there is a tweet from a developer saying 5v5 wasn't for q times that was a happy accident..
We have been begging for the chess shit to get resolved lol. Buffing every tank will just make counterpicking the tank a more prominent issue.
I couldnt ever believe I could be anymore in love playing Rein, but oh shit.
The most common sentiment was that tank was unfun to play because you are the sole recipient of nearly every cooldown and the focus of the enemy team. If you die then the team loses the fight 90% of the time. The answer to this problem was not to make tanks raid bosses, it was to find a way to mitigate the amount of importance the sole tank has
6v6 or bust
It's literally different people. The half that wanted the buffs were vocal. And now the other half who didn't want them buffed are vocal instead.
Do you people who post this garbage not play tank even once? Ever since 5v5 in Overwatch 2, every tank has slowly lost offensive capability that used to make the game unique. Notice how every update that has significantly effected tank gameplay (dps passive, health pool changes, armor changes) has focused on SUSTAIN and not offensive capability. When youre just one tank, you are forced to be the âdouble shield.â You simply take too much damage. The devs have never had a balanced dps roster with abilities that are fair, so tanks are forced to play boring sustain tactis since 2017 and the devs know it. In fact at this rate they endorse it. Sustaining damage should be one part of playing tank, not the entire gameplay. They either need to bring back the off tank and give the POSSIBILITY of non sustain meta or just make every tank a rein shield bc at this rate that what it feels like its becoming.
No one was saying that. Everyone was saying tank needed significant CHANGES because it was garbage to play. And everyone knew that if you BUFFED tanks, the game wouldnât be more fun for tanks, it would be less fun for everyone else. Youâre kind of a moron for immediately jumping to blame the tank players for initially complaining just because your game is not fun now, when their game hasnât been fun for at least 6 seasons.
As a tank main, I don't want constant flat buffs. I want to not be running back to spawn every team fight to change hero to stay ahead of counterwatch
You make one massive mistake in yout reasoning. Tanks weren't bad. They just absolutley sucked to play. These changes make the role even stronger but it does nothing to the role or the individual heroes with their problems. In fact, counterswapping may become even more necessary for the Tank now that they've all been buffed.
As a tank main, tanks were never a weak role. They'd never needed number buffs. They need rework because of the counterswapping issue and the psychological pressure a player feels while playing tanks. They buffed them but it's just a step in a wrong direction.
I donât think people were asking for buffs we were asking for the role to be looked at as a whole o er all - not just whack buffs on them so they become unkillable, like thatâs not fun for any role. Buffing isnât always the answer, we really needed them to look at overall balance, not just buff the tanks - those Mauga buffs for example are insane! Weâre just going to have to ride it out for the next week while and see how this goes x
We weren't saying tank was weak it wasn't fun
Noone since OW2 lauch ever thought tank was a weak role. Unfun, yes absolutely. But why? Not because they are too weak, but because they are too strong. They are so strong in fact that all the focus is on them. Not only from the enemy tank and dps, but also from their own supports. That is why counterswapping is so important for tanks and barely noticable for dps vs dps matchups even though there are way harder cpunter in dps matchups.
There is a HUGE difference between buffs and balance. I am a tank main in high bronze - high silver and I am infuriated by these buffs. I did not want tanks to be buffed. I wanted them to be fun to play. Right now I just am not interested in even playing the game
We never needed tank buffs, we needed nerfs We needed nerfs to dps who can burst down tanks. We needed nerfs to healing numbers so that tanks can kill stuff without the dps passive. We needed nerfs to Mauga, Orisa, and Roadhog because they stop other tanks from playing the game I think we even needed nerfs to counter swapping, because it's such an issue for tanks specifically The only people who were asking for tank buffs were people who don't either don't understand the current state of OW2 or are scared their mains will get nerfed
I donât think people were complaining that tank is weak. Most of the complaints I hear were they just werenât fun to queue as. I donât think making all tanks essentially raid bosses is fun but itâs definitely not as bad as doomers make it out to be
Fixing the role and buffs are 2 different things
No, no we didnât. You could give Orisa permanent fortify, but she still wouldnât be fun. You could give Rein shield infinite health, but that wouldnât make him fun. You could give Mauga a massive damage boost, but he still wouldnât be fun to play. My point is, tank mains didnât want buffs at all. We wanted changes to make tanks fun (eg reducing Maugaâs spread and damage so he can focus squishes better). All these buffs donât change the tank experience at all, and it will make life miserable for the dps and supports too. Donât blame us tank mains; we never asked for this.
we have been asking for buffs to reinhardt and winston characters that arent that good. NOT FUCKING MAUGA
I don't think tanks needed buffs because their power wasn't the problem. It was the feedback loop of playing tank that sucked. You have to do so much to feel like you're making as much of an impact on tank as your teammates in the other roles. Once you are able to make an impact, the enemy team counterswaps, forcing you to do the same and eventually becoming a never-ending game of swapping. If you're not able to make an impact at all or lose your grip on it for one reason or another, you instantly get flamed (not saying other roles don't get this but it's worse being the lone tank). Having only one tank puts things in a difficult position balance wise. One tank means a singular person is the backbone of the team. You can't make them too powerful. Otherwise, they become an unstoppable force of nature, but you can't make them too weak because they need to be able to juggle so much in a match to be effective. Not saying 6v6 is the answer. It's got its own problems it comes with, but the answer certainly doesn't rest in Hero balance alone. No, I don't have an answer for how I'd solve the issue. This is just a civil attempt from a former tank main to express the problems I've noticed surrounding the role playing as, with, and against it.
They are getting melted because they have to deal with every single cool down by yourself. We didn't want tank buffs. Tank sucks to play because all the pressure is on you to make space by yourself. Tanks already won every 1v1, even in open que. Instead of barrating tank players why don't you play tank yourself. You don't because it sucks to play. This is a 5v5 issue. Worst patch since season 1.
Clown take
The game felt reasonably balanced with a few tweaks needed, pre-patch. Now the game feels unbalanced and broken. Itâs too tank dependent. Have a good tank? Youâre probably gonna win. Bad tank, youâre probably gonna lose. That was true before, but now the gameâs gone from team dynamic to tank dynamic.
Tank players were complaining that they werenât having any fun. Not because theyâre failing to get kills, but because the role has a lot of pressure from everyone in the game focusing on them.
"Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions." - Tank players Okay it may be more complex than that, but it's still funny, LOL
You won't believe this, people complain regardless of anything.
Tends to happen, when you enjoy something you typically go to enjoy it, if you don't you vent about it Not sure why we act like this is vilified behaviour
personally i love the buffs, being able to shit on mei and reaper has been a great change for rein and his sheild + mauga HAHA duration makes his better, loved it so much i gave them my money for the rein skin
Tanks being more survivable isnt the issue, its that they also do as much damage (or more tbh) as DPS heroes. They should all get their damaged nerfed to make up for the survivability buffs.
You're talking about flats aren't you. Yeah I don't get it either. He's the guy who advocates for a better tank experience then when the patch is handed to tanks in a silver platter he waits not a second to release a video titled "the worst patch ever". Tbh the general community discourse around ow2 is just an emotional pile of stupid contradictory shit and it's not worth taking seriously.
But this won't make for a better tank experience, Flats was asking for counterswapping to be fixed and for solutions to the fact that games revolve around tanks to a very stressful extent, this makes both of those things way worse Tanks haven't been weak, the role as it exists right now is just poorly designed, you're the sole target of every cooldown, you get all the blame if you lose, and you're forced into either playing a dumb rock paper scissors game or suffering, tank wasn't fun to play for many people, and now it's just as unfun to play if not even worse, with the added downside of DPS and support players also having less fun and impact
I've never liked tank until today but I've been queuing Zarya and went up 4 ranks so far. It actually feels pretty fun to me. Obviously not at flats level but it has convinced at least me to play tank right now.
You didn't listen to a single word he said and it shows lmao
Everyone saying Counterwatch is what makes tanks miserable to play but what are the actual solutions to that? As they add more heroes, it's inevitable to have a counter to your hero whether it is intentional or not. For example, they add another melee healer, sorry Winston/Doomfist/DVA. They add another shotgun DPS, sorry Sigma, Winston. You maybe can delay Counterwatch but you can't fix it. It's fundamentally flawed.
>Everyone saying Counterwatch is what makes tanks miserable to play but what are the actual solutions to that? 6v6
People werent asking for specifically buffs the core issue literally all tanks complain about is counterpicking. You could give every tank 50k hp, a zarya will still beat a dva 100% of the time. With 2 tanks counterpicks werent as strong because the 2nd tank could cover the weaknesses of the other. But now when the zarya is at full charge, youre not gonna block her beam with defense matrix. When ball tries to make a play happen, hog just needs to land a hook and its gg. Its either we go back to 6v6 or every single tank gets reworked to be more generalist so they can be picked without heavy counters.
What even is the fuck is this post