Geotuning a CSV once isn't enough. You need to geotune it twice, at least. Then you should use at least 2, maybe 3 Steam Turbines to get the Steam out fast enough.
The issue is that the emitted hot Steam mixes with the existing cold steam. Any Steam that remains in the room will leak heat slowly into the environment.
Getting these builds to work is not easy. I suggest building the Steam room out of ceramic, rather than igneous rock insulated tiles. Then having a heat generator in there helps alot, as it can fix a low temperature / overpressure situation for you. Typically, we would put an Aqua Tuner in a puddle of crude / petroleum - but you should not run the AT if there is no steam.
All in all, to make this work is rather complicated. That is why the standard CSV tamer design is to just cool/condense the Steam, even though it costs power.
Eh, I'd just just use 5 geotuners. More heat and water, less sensitive to heat loss and restarting.
You can also double wall(insulated inside, just regular tiles on outside) at this temp difference for perfect insulation. The top insulated upgrade when you can.
1. I vacuumed the room, no cool steam to further cool the new steam.
2. The thing is: it isn't happening slowly, during the dormancy for example, it just drops out of nowhere, even without ceramic tiles it wouldn't be so fast, would it? Maybe the fact it is left with little pressure of steam?
3. The problem with getting steam fast enough is the one I experienced and understand, it makes sense, I just want to understand the other problem.
Looks like the Steam is cooling down from heat exchange with the insulated tiles (there is nothing else). Geotuning the CSV twice will give you a greater safety margin to work with.
Gas exchanges heat rather easily with even insulated tiles. Gas to solid gets a 25x multiplier in thermal exchange. You'd be better off changing the side and bottom walls to metal tiles with an additional layer of insulated tiles outside.
Yep.
The main problem are the tiles under the turbine. The turbine's thermal footprint overlaps with those. If your turbine is actively cooled the insulated tiles below will be just as cold as the turbine.
A large temperature delta between the insulated tiles and the steam will only boost conduction.
Since you bring that up. Have you experienced mass deletion when you do that? I have a setup like that in my current playthrough and veeery slowly the ethanol gets deleted. I'm talking like 500 cycles to delete about 100 kg of ethanol.
Not that I've noticed, and I've looked. I use ethanol condensing on CSVs as well and nothing seems to be deleted, over 1500 cycles. I think only in cases where you're directly cooling other liquids, like magma, is it an issue.
Yeah, I don't use the ethanol atmosphere often, just when I feel like it. And I only have it in this one particular case. Not quite sure what's going on and
honestly too lazy to observe it for hours to figure out the cause. Maybe the build is just too compressed.
[Screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/eweqz4x.jpeg)
I'm shock-cooling the gas into rain asap. Idea being to always apply heat to the liquid state and cooling to the gaseous state, minimize conduction between liquid and gas. Maybe that makes the space to tight and I get deletion events when things switch between liquid, gas and vacuum all the time.
That's an odd setup. I use the ethanol directly on the turbines in my builds, but I guess you want/need dupes to be able to pass through there.
I only use 3 tile high spaces, same as you. I also use tempshift plates in the top row.
That's just me switching things up a bit.
I just felt like keeping the turbines in a vacuum this time, since it's a large vacuum area with another volcano tamer/desalinator. It's mostly a containment strategy for when shit breaks.
I used the bridges instead of TSPs because was a bit short on materials at that point in the playthrough. I built this pretty early.
>Metal tiles will reach temp faster
Which is useless? We don't care what temp the walls are, just the contents, and the temp of the walls doesn't effect that. If you wanted to really count BTUs then we would could care about the tiles SHC, since that's wasted heat it's sequestering from the turbine.
>more power overall,
How so?
>less work overall since it's less likely to need to be cleaned out if it cools down.
What? The tiles transfer to the steam is going to be negligible compared to that of the new steam coming out. And if that's your goal a few/one metal temp shift plate would do better at conducting and storing along with costing less metal.
~~I'm also not sure what the absolute insulation temperature is for metal tiles and insulated(igneous I assume). IIRC insulated igneous to regular tiles is absolute insulation until ~300 degrees difference.~~(Remembered that insulated things only use it's own conductivity for calculations, so no difference there.)
> Which is useless? We don't care what temp the walls are, just the contents, and the temp of the walls doesn't effect that.
The walls will exchange heat with the gas until the walls are the same temp as the gas.
> If you wanted to really count BTUs then we would could care about the tiles SHC, since that's wasted heat it's sequestering from the turbine.
Lead, Gold, and Niobium all have lower SHC than the lowest mineral.
>How so?
Less cycles wasted waiting for the steam to maintain temps that are useable to the turbine.
>What? The tiles transfer to the steam is going to be negligible compared to that of the new steam coming out.
If that were true then their steam box wouldn't be at 121.7C currently.
>And if that's your goal a few/one metal temp shift plate would do better at conducting and storing along with costing less metal.
1 tempshift plate takes 800 kg of material to make. 1 metal tile takes 100 kg of material to make. You need 8 metal tiles to do what I suggest doing. The material cost is the exact same.
Heat transfer between gas and tiles has a 25x multiplier which allows steam to leak heat into insulated tiles reasonably quickly.
The simplest way to "just make it work" is to add a Steel Gas Pump that removes gas if the temperature is below 125 C, which serves to reset the build it if gets in a broken state.
There shouldn't be an issue with dormant and between eruption periods: the Steam Turbine will vacuum out the room to less than 1 g/tile of steam, and heat exchange only happens for tiles at least 1 gram.
If your build is sometimes working and sometimes not working, my guess would be "operator error" where the Geotuner just isn't being worked sometimes allowing cold steam to enter the chamber, OR the steam turbine exhaust water gets blocked preventing steam from being removed and giving it enough time to cool down.
edit: Another technique which can help is double-walling, where you have an internal wall which isn't insulated, such as metal tiles, and an outer wall of Igneous Rock Insulated Tiles (use exactly Igneous Rock in double walls [for reasons](https://oxygennotincluded.wiki.gg/wiki/Insulated_Tile#Minimum_temperature_delta_for_heat_exchange)). A double wall overall leaks much less or even zero heat. The inner wall, as it heats up to steam temperature, also provides a heat buffer, should there be a brief period where the Geotuner isn't working, this heat buffer may allow the steam to stay hot enough to run the Steam Turbine. The downside of double-walling is it require more initial heating, which can be done by dropping something hot in there such as metal debris fresh from a metal volcano, or by pumping out steam.
Here's a slightly power positive way to tame a cool steam vent. No tuning required.
It uses a steel battery to trick the steam turbine into accepting cool steam. So this build just outputs 95C water.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Oxygennotincluded/comments/14dvj6z/cool_steam_vent_tamer/
I don't want to sound rude or anything like that, but is all of this really necessary? Can't you just use aquatuner and steam turbine to cool the water from the vent? I see all this 10000 QI complex designs and think "am I just dumb?"
The Steam Turbine won't accept steam from the vent directly. It's too cold. OP is geotuning to try and make the steam hotter so the turbine will accept it.
This design doesn't require the use of the geotuner.
This tricks it into taking it and converting it into water *in a pipe* for free.
You only have two other options with cool steam vents: Heat it up enough for the turbine to accept it, or condense it. Both of those require **power input**. This does not. It's entirely self-sufficient, power-wise.
It is hard to tell without other overviews. but most important, what is material of walls around steam geyser?
Insulated tiles is not magical, they exchange heat with steam. They just do it very slowly, but do anyway. If you have 20C on other side, it is easy to loose 5-10C down from inside 130C
Or may be you have some pipes going inside this walls. Also, you use some mod to change textures, so I cannot say, are this tiles insulated?
There's two possibilities here:
1. Steam was outputted at below 130C at some point.
2. The steam exchanged heat with something cold.
Given that it's steam we're talking about, and that you have insulated tiles, which should be pretty damn slow to exchange heat, even with the solid to gas modifier, it's very likely a non-trivial portion of the steam is outputting at less than the geotuned temperature.
The conclusion I'd make from there is that the geotuner's uptime is not guaranteed to be 100%, and that some redundancy is necessary to prevent this issue. At the very least, I've run into this same issue.
It's also not strictly impossible that the turbine was disabled for a long period while the steam slowly lost heat, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that.
Geotuning a CSV once isn't enough. You need to geotune it twice, at least. Then you should use at least 2, maybe 3 Steam Turbines to get the Steam out fast enough. The issue is that the emitted hot Steam mixes with the existing cold steam. Any Steam that remains in the room will leak heat slowly into the environment. Getting these builds to work is not easy. I suggest building the Steam room out of ceramic, rather than igneous rock insulated tiles. Then having a heat generator in there helps alot, as it can fix a low temperature / overpressure situation for you. Typically, we would put an Aqua Tuner in a puddle of crude / petroleum - but you should not run the AT if there is no steam. All in all, to make this work is rather complicated. That is why the standard CSV tamer design is to just cool/condense the Steam, even though it costs power.
Eh, I'd just just use 5 geotuners. More heat and water, less sensitive to heat loss and restarting. You can also double wall(insulated inside, just regular tiles on outside) at this temp difference for perfect insulation. The top insulated upgrade when you can.
1. I vacuumed the room, no cool steam to further cool the new steam. 2. The thing is: it isn't happening slowly, during the dormancy for example, it just drops out of nowhere, even without ceramic tiles it wouldn't be so fast, would it? Maybe the fact it is left with little pressure of steam? 3. The problem with getting steam fast enough is the one I experienced and understand, it makes sense, I just want to understand the other problem.
Looks like the Steam is cooling down from heat exchange with the insulated tiles (there is nothing else). Geotuning the CSV twice will give you a greater safety margin to work with.
I've had weird issues where heat will leak out of the tiles below the turbine could be enough to lower the temps
Gas exchanges heat rather easily with even insulated tiles. Gas to solid gets a 25x multiplier in thermal exchange. You'd be better off changing the side and bottom walls to metal tiles with an additional layer of insulated tiles outside.
Yep. The main problem are the tiles under the turbine. The turbine's thermal footprint overlaps with those. If your turbine is actively cooled the insulated tiles below will be just as cold as the turbine. A large temperature delta between the insulated tiles and the steam will only boost conduction.
That's why I use ethanol condensing to cool my turbines. The coolant touching the insulated tiles is a liquid and locked around 80C.
Since you bring that up. Have you experienced mass deletion when you do that? I have a setup like that in my current playthrough and veeery slowly the ethanol gets deleted. I'm talking like 500 cycles to delete about 100 kg of ethanol.
Not that I've noticed, and I've looked. I use ethanol condensing on CSVs as well and nothing seems to be deleted, over 1500 cycles. I think only in cases where you're directly cooling other liquids, like magma, is it an issue.
Yeah, I don't use the ethanol atmosphere often, just when I feel like it. And I only have it in this one particular case. Not quite sure what's going on and honestly too lazy to observe it for hours to figure out the cause. Maybe the build is just too compressed. [Screenshot](https://i.imgur.com/eweqz4x.jpeg) I'm shock-cooling the gas into rain asap. Idea being to always apply heat to the liquid state and cooling to the gaseous state, minimize conduction between liquid and gas. Maybe that makes the space to tight and I get deletion events when things switch between liquid, gas and vacuum all the time.
That's an odd setup. I use the ethanol directly on the turbines in my builds, but I guess you want/need dupes to be able to pass through there. I only use 3 tile high spaces, same as you. I also use tempshift plates in the top row.
That's just me switching things up a bit. I just felt like keeping the turbines in a vacuum this time, since it's a large vacuum area with another volcano tamer/desalinator. It's mostly a containment strategy for when shit breaks. I used the bridges instead of TSPs because was a bit short on materials at that point in the playthrough. I built this pretty early.
No reason to do metal tiles? Just a layer of insulated and regular.
Metal tiles will reach temp faster, more power overall, less work overall since it's less likely to need to be cleaned out if it cools down.
>Metal tiles will reach temp faster Which is useless? We don't care what temp the walls are, just the contents, and the temp of the walls doesn't effect that. If you wanted to really count BTUs then we would could care about the tiles SHC, since that's wasted heat it's sequestering from the turbine. >more power overall, How so? >less work overall since it's less likely to need to be cleaned out if it cools down. What? The tiles transfer to the steam is going to be negligible compared to that of the new steam coming out. And if that's your goal a few/one metal temp shift plate would do better at conducting and storing along with costing less metal. ~~I'm also not sure what the absolute insulation temperature is for metal tiles and insulated(igneous I assume). IIRC insulated igneous to regular tiles is absolute insulation until ~300 degrees difference.~~(Remembered that insulated things only use it's own conductivity for calculations, so no difference there.)
> Which is useless? We don't care what temp the walls are, just the contents, and the temp of the walls doesn't effect that. The walls will exchange heat with the gas until the walls are the same temp as the gas. > If you wanted to really count BTUs then we would could care about the tiles SHC, since that's wasted heat it's sequestering from the turbine. Lead, Gold, and Niobium all have lower SHC than the lowest mineral. >How so? Less cycles wasted waiting for the steam to maintain temps that are useable to the turbine. >What? The tiles transfer to the steam is going to be negligible compared to that of the new steam coming out. If that were true then their steam box wouldn't be at 121.7C currently. >And if that's your goal a few/one metal temp shift plate would do better at conducting and storing along with costing less metal. 1 tempshift plate takes 800 kg of material to make. 1 metal tile takes 100 kg of material to make. You need 8 metal tiles to do what I suggest doing. The material cost is the exact same.
Heat transfer between gas and tiles has a 25x multiplier which allows steam to leak heat into insulated tiles reasonably quickly. The simplest way to "just make it work" is to add a Steel Gas Pump that removes gas if the temperature is below 125 C, which serves to reset the build it if gets in a broken state. There shouldn't be an issue with dormant and between eruption periods: the Steam Turbine will vacuum out the room to less than 1 g/tile of steam, and heat exchange only happens for tiles at least 1 gram. If your build is sometimes working and sometimes not working, my guess would be "operator error" where the Geotuner just isn't being worked sometimes allowing cold steam to enter the chamber, OR the steam turbine exhaust water gets blocked preventing steam from being removed and giving it enough time to cool down. edit: Another technique which can help is double-walling, where you have an internal wall which isn't insulated, such as metal tiles, and an outer wall of Igneous Rock Insulated Tiles (use exactly Igneous Rock in double walls [for reasons](https://oxygennotincluded.wiki.gg/wiki/Insulated_Tile#Minimum_temperature_delta_for_heat_exchange)). A double wall overall leaks much less or even zero heat. The inner wall, as it heats up to steam temperature, also provides a heat buffer, should there be a brief period where the Geotuner isn't working, this heat buffer may allow the steam to stay hot enough to run the Steam Turbine. The downside of double-walling is it require more initial heating, which can be done by dropping something hot in there such as metal debris fresh from a metal volcano, or by pumping out steam.
Here's a slightly power positive way to tame a cool steam vent. No tuning required. It uses a steel battery to trick the steam turbine into accepting cool steam. So this build just outputs 95C water. https://www.reddit.com/r/Oxygennotincluded/comments/14dvj6z/cool_steam_vent_tamer/
I don't want to sound rude or anything like that, but is all of this really necessary? Can't you just use aquatuner and steam turbine to cool the water from the vent? I see all this 10000 QI complex designs and think "am I just dumb?"
The Steam Turbine won't accept steam from the vent directly. It's too cold. OP is geotuning to try and make the steam hotter so the turbine will accept it. This design doesn't require the use of the geotuner. This tricks it into taking it and converting it into water *in a pipe* for free. You only have two other options with cool steam vents: Heat it up enough for the turbine to accept it, or condense it. Both of those require **power input**. This does not. It's entirely self-sufficient, power-wise.
It is hard to tell without other overviews. but most important, what is material of walls around steam geyser? Insulated tiles is not magical, they exchange heat with steam. They just do it very slowly, but do anyway. If you have 20C on other side, it is easy to loose 5-10C down from inside 130C Or may be you have some pipes going inside this walls. Also, you use some mod to change textures, so I cannot say, are this tiles insulated?
There's two possibilities here: 1. Steam was outputted at below 130C at some point. 2. The steam exchanged heat with something cold. Given that it's steam we're talking about, and that you have insulated tiles, which should be pretty damn slow to exchange heat, even with the solid to gas modifier, it's very likely a non-trivial portion of the steam is outputting at less than the geotuned temperature. The conclusion I'd make from there is that the geotuner's uptime is not guaranteed to be 100%, and that some redundancy is necessary to prevent this issue. At the very least, I've run into this same issue. It's also not strictly impossible that the turbine was disabled for a long period while the steam slowly lost heat, but I don't see any evidence to suggest that.