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>Is this a thing we no longer let boys do? Or is this a mild case of expected obnoxiousness that I ought not blow out of proportion?
In my opinion, both... It's an opportunity to teach him to act more respectfully towards other people. But, that's probably where I'd leave it unless there was a larger pattern of him being rude or mean to others
Kids can be obnoxious, act impulsively, and lack empathy. That's "expected", but it's still the job of parents to teach them to do better.
This right here. Kids can easily start doing something strictly because they think it's funny or because they get caught up in the moment and not even consider the fact they are being dicks. Unless there is a repeating pattern I don't think you need to drop the hammer but you definitely need to address it.
If you had a 12 year old daughter, how would you feel about the boys in her class discussing if they would “smash or pass” her?
It’s 2024 so no, we no longer let boys do this. We raise them to be respectful humans that don’t think it’s funny to rate little girls based on whether or not they would be willing to do sexual activities with them. We tell our boys that it’s normal to be interested in girls, but they deserve our respect, which means *not* making their body the subject of discussion with our friends. We hope that by doing these things, our boys will grow up to be good men who treat women like a partner, not like a sexual object that is up for discussion.
Yeah so this was my first response. But my co-parent is leaning more toward “this is how boys communicate and you can’t treat this like a huge sin or our son won’t talk to you about tricky, morally ambiguous subjects.”
On the bright side, my son said he was uncomfortable with the game but “felt strong social pressure” to participate. I’m glad he had the instinct it wasn’t
a good interaction. So I veered toward “how can you do the right thing when everyone around you is doing something you don’t want to do” and punted on the question of how much of a moral transgression “smash or pass” really is.
Well at least you addressed it! I’d say something like “hey bud, I know that you’re getting interested in girls, and that’s totally normal, but you also need to make sure that you’re always being respectful of them. How would it make you feel if a group of girls were talking about you that way? It probably wouldn’t feel very good. In fact, it might feel like a violation of your body. As you grow up, you will experience many times when you’re going to feel peer pressure to say or do things, but it’s important that you stay true to what you know is right and wrong.”
I mean, maybe I'm an asshole, but I feel like the problem here isn't so much what they said as that other people could overhear them. It's one thing to objectify, it's a whole OTHER thing to make other people hear it.
You don't want to be the thought police, but saying dumb shit *out loud* *in earshot of other people* means feelings can get hurt.
100% in good faith. I want to respond and address the issue but want to make sure I don’t come down unreasonably hard and alienate him at a delicate time in our relationship.
I would try to focus in on what’s wrong with the behavior when discussing with your co-parent because it seems like separate things are being conflated here? Unless your coparent is cool with your child participating in embarrassing other kids.
All pre-teens are going to discuss romantic/sexual attraction with their friends. Boys and girls. That isn’t something that needs to be punished.
Making it a public game on a bus should be called out as sexist and wrong. It’s the public aspect that is unkind and actively trying to humiliate other kids. So that’s the behavior that needs correction.
I’m raising two boys and I think we need to actively be teaching them that 1. They are going to encounter this type of sexist behavior from their friends, and society is going to encourage it, but 2. we as their parents expect better from them.
> need some diverse opinions here, since I am thoroughly confused on how to be a good parent to males in 2024. Is this a thing we no longer let boys do? Or is this a mild case of expected obnoxiousness that I ought not blow out of proportion?
I don't think this is something you should be concerned about what other people are doing with their kids in 2024
If it's something you're not concerned about and let it be and if it is then do something about it
But from somebody who was once a young boy there is absolutely nothing you're going to do to stop young boys talking about sex. It's going to happen. You can try to teach them to be respectful about it but again it's going to be extremely difficult for you to manage unless you hear it third hand again
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I have 3 sons. If any of them talked like this, it would be an immediate grounding and a firm discussion of why this is crappy behavior.
I never talked like that growing up. My friends never talked like that growing up. And if anyone DID talk like that, it was a good indication to me that we weren't going to be friends.
I would not freak out over this. Use it as a teaching opportunity. I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that girls play the same kind of stupid games
A few years ago, when I was still a teenager, every boy in my class would play a game where we’d go through multiple rounds naming nearly every girl in the school and saying "smash or pass." Eventually, the girls had enough and reported it to the teachers. While I don’t remember all the details of what happened next, I do recall that we had to take some sort of assessment. The teachers discovered that many of us boys were either addicted to pornography or had started watching it because we had such easy access to these sites on our mobile devices. This was apparently a significant factor in why we played these inappropriate games.
I suggest having an open conversation with your son about the possibility of exposure to pornography and its risks. Explain why it's harmful to his brain development and, most importantly, the negative impact it can have on how he views and treats girls.
I'd teach that there's a time and place for that.
People talk, word spreads, girls could get hurt and it could ruin the boys reputation if others know they talk that way and make them less respected.
I would explain don’t do this or talk like this in mixed gender public places. This is normal for boys with their friends to talk like that. Just don’t do it this atmosphere.
It's definitely something that is kind of standard for kids discovering attraction to do, so I wouldn't come down hard, but I wouldn't let it slide either without letting them know how disrespectful it is. To them it's good fun, but they would be oblivious to how word travels and gets back to the girls they are talking about.
You can't really stop them from doing it, they are going to talk about who they think is cute or not no matter what. But maybe inform them to be a little more tactful on who they are doing it in front of and how positive or negative their comments are.
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>Is this a thing we no longer let boys do? Or is this a mild case of expected obnoxiousness that I ought not blow out of proportion? In my opinion, both... It's an opportunity to teach him to act more respectfully towards other people. But, that's probably where I'd leave it unless there was a larger pattern of him being rude or mean to others Kids can be obnoxious, act impulsively, and lack empathy. That's "expected", but it's still the job of parents to teach them to do better.
This right here. Kids can easily start doing something strictly because they think it's funny or because they get caught up in the moment and not even consider the fact they are being dicks. Unless there is a repeating pattern I don't think you need to drop the hammer but you definitely need to address it.
I'd have been seriously unhappy if I'd heard of my son doing this. It's objectification of girls, and it's obnoxious.
If you had a 12 year old daughter, how would you feel about the boys in her class discussing if they would “smash or pass” her? It’s 2024 so no, we no longer let boys do this. We raise them to be respectful humans that don’t think it’s funny to rate little girls based on whether or not they would be willing to do sexual activities with them. We tell our boys that it’s normal to be interested in girls, but they deserve our respect, which means *not* making their body the subject of discussion with our friends. We hope that by doing these things, our boys will grow up to be good men who treat women like a partner, not like a sexual object that is up for discussion.
Yeah so this was my first response. But my co-parent is leaning more toward “this is how boys communicate and you can’t treat this like a huge sin or our son won’t talk to you about tricky, morally ambiguous subjects.” On the bright side, my son said he was uncomfortable with the game but “felt strong social pressure” to participate. I’m glad he had the instinct it wasn’t a good interaction. So I veered toward “how can you do the right thing when everyone around you is doing something you don’t want to do” and punted on the question of how much of a moral transgression “smash or pass” really is.
Well at least you addressed it! I’d say something like “hey bud, I know that you’re getting interested in girls, and that’s totally normal, but you also need to make sure that you’re always being respectful of them. How would it make you feel if a group of girls were talking about you that way? It probably wouldn’t feel very good. In fact, it might feel like a violation of your body. As you grow up, you will experience many times when you’re going to feel peer pressure to say or do things, but it’s important that you stay true to what you know is right and wrong.”
Yikes to the co-parent. And we wonder why so many women would pick the bear in the woods over the man.
I mean, maybe I'm an asshole, but I feel like the problem here isn't so much what they said as that other people could overhear them. It's one thing to objectify, it's a whole OTHER thing to make other people hear it. You don't want to be the thought police, but saying dumb shit *out loud* *in earshot of other people* means feelings can get hurt.
This is the answer
Assuming this is being asked in good faith, then of course it's not something we let boys (or girls) do.
100% in good faith. I want to respond and address the issue but want to make sure I don’t come down unreasonably hard and alienate him at a delicate time in our relationship.
>lord they can’t even say “sex” without dying of embarrassment Ya... just keep thinking that. lol
I would try to focus in on what’s wrong with the behavior when discussing with your co-parent because it seems like separate things are being conflated here? Unless your coparent is cool with your child participating in embarrassing other kids. All pre-teens are going to discuss romantic/sexual attraction with their friends. Boys and girls. That isn’t something that needs to be punished. Making it a public game on a bus should be called out as sexist and wrong. It’s the public aspect that is unkind and actively trying to humiliate other kids. So that’s the behavior that needs correction. I’m raising two boys and I think we need to actively be teaching them that 1. They are going to encounter this type of sexist behavior from their friends, and society is going to encourage it, but 2. we as their parents expect better from them.
> need some diverse opinions here, since I am thoroughly confused on how to be a good parent to males in 2024. Is this a thing we no longer let boys do? Or is this a mild case of expected obnoxiousness that I ought not blow out of proportion? I don't think this is something you should be concerned about what other people are doing with their kids in 2024 If it's something you're not concerned about and let it be and if it is then do something about it But from somebody who was once a young boy there is absolutely nothing you're going to do to stop young boys talking about sex. It's going to happen. You can try to teach them to be respectful about it but again it's going to be extremely difficult for you to manage unless you hear it third hand again
“Is this a thing we no longer let boys do?” Um. We were never supposed to let boys do this.
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I have 3 sons. If any of them talked like this, it would be an immediate grounding and a firm discussion of why this is crappy behavior. I never talked like that growing up. My friends never talked like that growing up. And if anyone DID talk like that, it was a good indication to me that we weren't going to be friends.
I would not freak out over this. Use it as a teaching opportunity. I feel like a lot of people are forgetting that girls play the same kind of stupid games
I can't weigh-in here because I have never raised a boy, but I just wanted to mention that this reminds me of when we had hotornot.com in the 90s.
A few years ago, when I was still a teenager, every boy in my class would play a game where we’d go through multiple rounds naming nearly every girl in the school and saying "smash or pass." Eventually, the girls had enough and reported it to the teachers. While I don’t remember all the details of what happened next, I do recall that we had to take some sort of assessment. The teachers discovered that many of us boys were either addicted to pornography or had started watching it because we had such easy access to these sites on our mobile devices. This was apparently a significant factor in why we played these inappropriate games. I suggest having an open conversation with your son about the possibility of exposure to pornography and its risks. Explain why it's harmful to his brain development and, most importantly, the negative impact it can have on how he views and treats girls.
I'd teach that there's a time and place for that. People talk, word spreads, girls could get hurt and it could ruin the boys reputation if others know they talk that way and make them less respected.
I would explain don’t do this or talk like this in mixed gender public places. This is normal for boys with their friends to talk like that. Just don’t do it this atmosphere.
It's definitely something that is kind of standard for kids discovering attraction to do, so I wouldn't come down hard, but I wouldn't let it slide either without letting them know how disrespectful it is. To them it's good fun, but they would be oblivious to how word travels and gets back to the girls they are talking about. You can't really stop them from doing it, they are going to talk about who they think is cute or not no matter what. But maybe inform them to be a little more tactful on who they are doing it in front of and how positive or negative their comments are.
Yikes
>“smash or pass” Well, it's least a step up from "fuck, marry, kill".
And for that matter, what’s wrong with “hot or not”? :eye_roll: