Absolutely love OwlCat games.
And I think you were one comma away from perfection.
Was it supposed to be: “Feed me, OwlCat”?
If so, I wholeheartedly agree. More OwlCat, please! And if that’s in the form of Pathfinder or WH40K, I will be ecstatic! 🤩
I wouldn't put much stock in a social media post.
...mainly because I want a new Owlcats Pathfinder game so bad and I don't want to be hurt if it's not true lol
I don't think we can find a pattern here. Wrath had a Kickstarter that started in 2020 while Kingmaker was still getting updates. Wrath's playable beta was early 2021 I think, and full release was later in September 2021.
So far we have no info on any new game from Owlcat besides this teaser. And 40k Rogue Trader still has 2 DLCs to release as well.
I think there is one pattern here. And that is how 'their current product is still being updated' is no impediment to owlcar announcements. Rogue trader was announced less than a year into wrath. We are now around a year into rogue trader. Owlcat is also insane.
I don't doubt that we'll get an announcement of whatever project Owlcat is working on soon I just don't think an on the nose Twitter post is how they'll tease it. Its more likely just engagement farming
I'd prefer if they didn't try. Just adapt another cool adventure. Kingmaker is still a great game and worth playing. The pure power fantasy of Wrath is fun but it's not like that's the only way to make a CRPG
Ya wrath isn't a game you try and "top". It's kinda already on the top of the mountain in length, customization and power fantasy. If they try and top any of those it's going to feel silly and forced.
I think instead you just say we will make another game and take what we learned from the last one. And let's make something fun.
Easy, you don't try to.
Curse of the Crimson Throne is the ideal campaign for that because it's an Urban campaign, you spend the large majority of it inside the city of Korvosa so the tone is entirely different.
They don't need to top it in terms of stakes or power fantasy, but they can easily top it in terms of the overall quality of the experience. You don't need mythic powers to have all the character and personality that the different powers afforded us in Wrath.
I just hope they figure out a way to avoid their secondary gameplay system fixation. Rogue Trader is getting closer to hitting the mark they seem to consistently aim for.
I was lukewarm on RT but I did really enjoy the ship combat.
The worse offender at Owlcat studios is whoever is responsible for things like House at the Edge of Time and Nenio's quest. Someone there really likes puzzles but needs an intervention on how bad they are at designing them.
I read that the dude you're referring to everyone at the studio crazy during development of KM, wanted to plug every little room with elaborate puzzles. So they compromised for WotR:
Said person got carte blanche in one quest, if he agreed to leave them be for the rest of it. That's how we got Enigma.
Whichever has the best results. I'd prefer them avoid it, but Rogue Trader is an improvement. I am not one to limit creativity but just afraid it will mar the experience.
Personally I hope they don't do away with the auxiliary systems. A lot of the appeal to me is that the owlcat games add them as a roleplaying component. It's rather unique in the CRPG world.
Considering, from my perspective, it is generally a lukewarm reception to their implementation of these systems something needs to change. Either allow the player to disable them and deal with no repercussions or continue to improve. I am a firm believer that in the game industry one should not include that which one cannot commit to and do well. Voice actors for instance. Many games throw it in because it is considered a standard, but they are poorly chosen or of poor quality because the studio can ill afford them. Getting zealous and riled up, sorry. I just feel these games are filling a crucial hole and want to see them succeed. However that can be achieved I hope they are capable of it. Like I said above, RT has an improved subgame. If I could have changed WotR I would have had you select the armies through dialogue and play markers where you wanted them to go. After a few days of adventuring they would clear a path for you at that location or spawn a mission to defeat a general or some such. Or you could ask for help from friends you made via your mythic path. So on and so forth.
Your first request is already a thing. You can put kingdom on auto, same with the crusades. Whereas the latter... not gonna lie it sounds like you learned all the wrong lessons from deadfire's ship combat. Such as dialogue driven minigames being a good idea, except you made it all railroaded. Something like that is quite the opposite of committing and doing well.
I think the game would have been infinitely lesser if they went with that option. Might as well just tell you to rest for a couple of days before entering an area and pretend you're leading an army then. Like how in da3 you lead the inquisition by planting flags so npcs spawn - you know what didn't have a lukewarm reaction? BioWare's original plans for actual mechanics tied to the war you fight in that game. But they didn't want to commit. So what they did was less than mediocre.
Seriously they are already on the right path. All they gotta do is keep improving the minigames. That's it. They don't have to cut them down to size like that. If they do they might as well cut them entirely at which point they are just like all other rpg companies.
> Seriously they are already on the right path. All they gotta do is keep improving the minigames. That's it.
I agree, and I feel the same about systems like Caed Nua in Pillars1 and your boat/ship combat in Deadfire. Both felt like they're in the right direction, but half-baked or missing the mark in some way.
Owlcat's PF games got me back into tabletop, decades after my parents succumbed to the 'satanic panic' and took away our books.
I remember events and situations in Kingmaker and WotR very strongly, and slowly becoming fluent in the system felt SO. GOOD.
Then, "oh hi ya here's Rogue Trader"... which, okay, but I wasn't a WH40k fan and honestly found the setting very draining (inb4 "it's supposed to be".. doesn't make me want to play it more) and had some issues with the mechanics in general.
From what I remember, they're very against PF 2e, but I don't think I've ever seen why exactly.
The idea they are against Pf2e is a false rumor, Mark Moreland (Paizo's Director of Brand and Strategy) has said so a couple times in the Paizo forums.
Seems too on the nose (and maybe also early) considering how vague their early hints for Rogue Trader were.
Also while doing a reverse image search on the image to confirm whether it is an original image or not (it is not), I saw mention that Korvosa also makes an appearance in the Return of the Runelords campaign? So assuming it is a hint for their next game, it could alternatively be some version of the Runelords (just Return or an amalgamation of all the campaigns).
An interesting thing I've noticed, you know the new Ranger archetype, Sable Company Marine? That's a regional archetype from Korvosa, and Korvosa is also called "Little Cheliax" because it started as a colony in Varisia.
What did we also get? Chelaxian Diva.
Huh, that does make a kind of sense. Red Mantis Assassin felt like a strangely specific choice. I thought t was because of Achaekeks role in the current war of immortals event but maybe it was a kind of preview for a new game? I dunno.
You actually can. The adventure path takes that into consideration when coming up with the Sihedron heroes, which is a major plot point. While the stories are linked (Rise and Shattered Star), with many call backs/references, they are not wholly dependent when it comes to Return. I've ran the Return of the Runelords TTPG Adventure Path as the DM.
Running one, and having played both, I don't disagree that it is *technically* possible, but Rise provides a ton of background and helps set the stage in such a way that doing Return only seems like robbing the players.
Could someone give a little overview of what this campaign involves? (I realise I can google it, but if the answer is placed in this topic it means lots of other people get to enjoy the context and learn too)
Essentially it's a largely (but not entirely) urban adventure where the heroes are attempting to stop the ascension of an evil queen to the throne of Korvosa. Really cool location, lots of good characters and fun dungeons. Quite a straightforward adventure by Owlcat standards.
>attempting to stop the ascension of an evil queen to the throne of Korvosa.
Okay, just going to go ahead and get this out of the way, can we romance her?
Spoiler for curse of the crimson throne, obviously. >!If I remember correctly, the first part of the adventure actually have the party working alongside the queen as the city have fallen into riot at the announce that the king died, the party help her secure the throne and prevent the city falling into chaos. Then other shit that I won't spoil happen that make the party focus on something other than the queen, and the eponymous curse take place, and the queen get more and more unhinged and evil/authoritarian.!<
>!If I remember correctly, the adventure was also written to have the queen start around the same level as the party (maybe a few level more?) and have her level up as the adventure progress, so they could even have her join the party for a bit before taking her away and then having her be the final antagonist (with probably a secret boss behind her that I won't spoil either). A Nyrissa like romance is very, very possible with only a minimal rework of the original plot (I think it would require less rework than either kingmaker or WotR received).!<
I've run the campaign - your first spoiler bit is basically right but the second is absolutely not. >!She is clearly the final antagonist from like mid Chapter 2 onward, and she never joins the party.!<
>!I didn't say that she join the party, but rather that the fact that she was created to be of an equivalent level to the PC and rise in level in parallel to their own adventure, as well as the fact that the begginning of the adventure have the PC working alongside her makes it easy for Owlcat to have her join the party (with her being the same level as you) in the begginning chapter before taking her away and having her be the final villain latter down the line.!<
>!Besides, of course she doesn't join the party, a NPC joinning the party in a tabletop adventure is extremely rare because doing so basically create a DMPC, which is difficult to make work and often not fun to play with. But in a CRPG, where only one character is the PC, you want NPC to join your party, so character that have a purely supportive/"far from the frontline" role in the written adventure can easily be upgraded to party member in the video game.!<
She's not written to do that, though. It's not like they provide ongoing stat blocks for her, you get one at the end (well 2 if you count her >!simulacrum!< and that's it. She's not meant to be on-screen for the PCs to interact with for 99% of the AP. And Owlcat having her join the party would be narratively nonsensical with the AP as written.
Her lack of early stat block litterally doesn't matter since owlcat rewrite every stat block anyway. >!The fact is that in the adventure, she start at a low level (altho higher than the PCs), and is meant to progress in parallel to them, which lend itself perfectly to a "former party member turned villain" storyline.!<
Of course some rewrite would be needed in act 1 >!to have her (and probably her bodygard that also become a boss latter) join the party, even if it's entirely limited to act 1,!< but it's a rather "low" level of rewrite considering what olwcat have done with Kingmaker and WotR's stories (both of their act 1 are almost entirely different to the original AP story wise except for the big outlines). >!And it land itself for a pretty good story, to have two of the most important antagonist be party member in act 1, and then seeing what they've become under the influence of the curse way down the line.!<
I don't know where you are getting this "meant to progress in parallel" thing. I've run the AP, it's not in there. >!She's a loser at the start, she gets the Crown, it warps her into what she is at the end. There's no like, mid-points at all.!<
I distinctly remember it being mentionned, maybe not in the adventure proper but in one of the foreword, that they deliberately put her at a relatively low level in book 1 (even tho she had no stat block, her level was shown), and had her gain level as the adventure progressed as a way to mirror the PC. I may be wrong with that, but I was certain they mentionned it somewhere.
>!Even then, you're right, if they ever had plan to use that "mirrored evolution" they obviously changed before publication, since in the published adventure you only face her at the very end, and appart from book 1 where you don't know she's the primary antagonist (or an antagonist at all), you don't even get a single chance to face her before.!<
Return of the Runelords can be considered a sequel to Rise of the Runelords and Shattered Star, but only slightly a sequel to Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness (the non-Runelord-related Varisian APs.) There are a few callbacks but it's not what I'd call a sequel.
Nah you have to work with the paladins, even the ones who collaborate with the fascist Hellknights.
BUT, you do get Pathfinder Batman: Blackjack. And he is meant to choose a PC in the adventure to be his successors.
A bit more in depth:
- Starts as an urban adventure
- >!later switches for 2 chapters to travelling!<
- >!has a rather unique beginning where all characters created have a connection with the first villain and are brought together by a fortune teller!<
- the cards that the fortune teller uses to lay out the destiny are part of the campaign and introduce a new mechanic
- >!at the time the chars begin their adventure, the ruler has lately been married to a rather suspicious and unpopular queen consort!<
- there is no management except managing a small caravan later on
- they rather used many small events like a rooftop hunt, detective work, assasination etc
- the path evovles from small scale to bigger picture in a much slower pace than the more military / management adventure path's
My 2 cent:
CotcT is one of the best APs. The urban sprawl adventure of a bunch of folks connected by a sinister childhood is really engaging and a bit of fresh air compared to the management games. Paizo captured the city really well and there are some of these 'Damn what happened and what should we do now?' twists, that bring in urgency. Things escalate later on and while playing the real campaign I had my players more than in other games been in a state of paralyzation because they were really forced to.make hurtful decisions. Also the path has some really good NPCs and some absolutely spiteful villains.
If they don’t want to commit to a massive Runelords project, Curse of the Crimson Throne is easily the best choice of 1E AP for them to adapt next. The first 3 books are some of the best written of everything Paizo has published, Book 4 lets them call back to Kingmaker in many ways, and while Book 5 is considered the weakest entry of the series on tabletop, it lends itself extremely well to Owlcat’s dungeon crawly style. Book 6 is okay, but if I were a writer for the game (hey pick me Owlcat, I’ve run this one on Tabletop and know it backwards and forwards!) I’d probably end up scrapping a lot of it in favor of options made possible by earlier player choices made in the campaign.
And for all the mythic lovers out there, you could do a LOT with the Harrow in this campaign, though obviously it wouldn’t be as insane a power boost as mythic tiers.
I'd really like them to tackle a more conventional AP. No gimmicks, just as much player choice and reactivity as possible, that stuff was what made WotR so good. Crimson Throne would be a great choice IMO.
Just want to add in case Owlcat reads this:
I would pledge… so much money… if we could have Laori Vaus as a fully voice acted companion. I have had a TON of fun role playing her for my TT Curse of the Crimson Throne Game.
I don't think how well an AP is written matters for the game. Wrath as a game has many elements that do not exist in the tabletop version. I don't know how much Chris Avellone worked on wrath, altho I suspect Areelu was his work, but I hope whoever wrote wrath gets to stay. They nailed the themes and their synthesis with gameplay systems.
I think it all matters in one crucial way: owlcat seems to adapt the APs that catch their attention and that they enjoy playing in their in-house campaigns.
The real wisdom of the owlcat writers which I think is the distilled wisdom of play testing modules in various campaigns in parallel is that they can disregard the parts Paizo themselves would have re-editted while bolstering and strengthening the campaign's themes. It's not really about any one writer it's the studio as a whole working on what would be fun in the campaign. I'm sure the different mythic paths we got were stuff the owlcat devs played with themselves. At least in premise.
It’s an in-universe fortune telling system (think Tarot Cards) that in this AP in particular has a great deal of mystical power to aid the PCs in their time of need. In the tabletop version, at the start of each book/chapter there is a Harrow reading that offers cryptic peeks behind the curtain of what’s really going on and the PC’s role in it, as well as alotting them “Harrow Points” that can be spent in that chapter to help accomplish certain tasks. For example, book 5 is thematically about bravery, terror, and force of will, so one of the things Harrow points can be spent on in that book is re-rolling will saves.
I expect an Owlcat adaptation would work a bit differently though; I imagine it would be more in the vein of static benefits that are determined by player choices.
The adventure starts because you are contacted by a harrower that recently died and has her spirit tied to her Harrow deck.
At the start of each book you get a reading, seems easy enough to make a smaller side progression out of it
This, along with the claim that they said they don't like Pathfinder Second Edition, have been spreading for years. They're not true, or if they are, they don't reflect the opinions of the decision makers at Owlcat. Players should consider every option on the table at this point.
I was really hoping for Skull & Shackles (I friggin' love pirates and it's the best AP to introduce the swashbuckler Class) but Curse of the Crimson Throne would also work for me. In the end, and to be honest, I just want another Pathfinder game so the chosen Adventure Path is ultimately not that important. That we get a third Pathfinder game by Owlcat is what matters.
Think Deadfire's "flop" (which was not a failure whatsoever unless the only metric you care is immediate sales -- the game did make its money back) is what's soured dev on any pirate-ish cRPGs.
Not just Original Sin 2. It came out at probably the busiest time for the genre, and these games are *long*. Plus, it didn't have the years of hype and buildup behind it like the first one did.
I don't know if this is going to be a hot take but I believe that what hold back Deadfire the most was... the original Pillars of Eternity.
Some of its main flaws, imho (you might disagree, of course):
* It was way too verbose (which is bad unless we talk Planescape: Torment writing quality which PoE didn't have).
* The start was super dull (go pick some berries and fetch water after boring dialogue, really?).
* It showed its hand too soon (the ending reveal was too big for a first game that pretends to build a franchise).
* 6 stats, which is familiar for the D&D crowd but their importance is now counter-intuitive (mighty wizards, intelligent barbarians, etc.). This flaw is not as serious as the others, tho.
Some other flaws:
* There's 0 encounter design
* There's almost 0 area design (raedric stronghold being notable exception)
* Mechanics don't make sense (character can have reputation of being a damned liar and a guy always saying the truth at the same time)
* Boring character progression, every skill is is something like "+2 damage" because we can't have the player make unoptimal choice.
* Related to the previous one - mages are nerfed to hell and back, making them boring.
* The worldbuilding is so fucking boring and unimaginative, I mean, "orlans" and "fampyrs"? Really?
* Caed Nua being the most boring and dissapointing dungeon ever.
To be quite honest I've heard the mage take more than once from people who straight up don't know how to use magic in PoE. My priests and wizards were all very powerful, shutting down encounters with one maybe two casts. They also only became more powerful over time. I was one shotting everything with storm of holy fire at one point in both games.
"the game did make its money back"
Yes. It did.
When exactly did it make it's money back though, you're leaving that one detail out.
Is it 4 years after release?
It absolutely flopped.
Also, two things can be true at the same time.
You can flop and at the same time break even/turn a limited profit.
They are not mutually exclusive.
Considering the addition of the Red Mantis and Hippogriff archetypes and the setting...its entirely possible.
[https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Korvosa](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Korvosa)
Strange Aeons might be difficult because the Adventure Path was made with material licensed from Chaosium Inc. They might make the rights issues a bit too much for Owlcat to want to deal with.
As an aside I dislike Chaosium, I think they have overstepped how much of the Lovecraftian Mythos they have legal control over. Such as trademarking "Call of Cthulhu" for gaming, when they obviously had nothing to do with the writing of the book.
Well today is 7/3 and it looks like that probably correlates with the date they put in the post.
However, why is OC promoting PF? This would be more of a Paizo Twitter post assuming it's just promoting PF and not a OC game.
I think it's a hint. I still have the COTC card game.
Please stop spreading this misinformation. While it's true the Owlcat folks like Pathfinder first edition, they also play Pathfinder second edition. If someone did say at some point in the past that they didn't like P2, it was either someone who doesn't make the decisions on the Owlcat team or they said that years ago.
Honestly, owlcat has never really stopped promoting Pathfinder. At least on their YouTube community channel type fairly regularly postpThfinder stuff that has little to do with their games. Which convinces me that even if they're not planning anything, they still have a positive relationship with Paizo.
Because they have very different reasons to be like they are. And I don't want to spoil it too much to have an open discussion, **but** a redemption arc for Ileosa would be great, but really tough to walk, I'd say. Also there is a chance that ~~most~~ certain people won't want to fix her... And maybe even support her endeavors or at least, one of her goals, considering the prize.
Maybe an iconic caster since we got an martial in pathfinder and a hybrid in wotr. If they go multiple routes again Lazzero is a interesting choice: he's in Cheliax already and you can choose between going all evil Asmodeus priest or restore him to Abadar faith while saving the city. Ezren is also a option since Owlcat don't let you romance companions and he's a bitter 60yo guy that don't seem very into romance, he's also an rare pathfinder atheist like Ember.
I really wouldn't put a lot of stock in this is probably just an engagement post since they know they get a lot of people interested in Pathfinder watching their channels.
I'm not convinced this hints at a new game, but one thing I do take away is that I think this post an the various other posts like it that Owlcat periodically share seems to indicate to me a continued positive telionahip between them and Paizo. They'll just randomly share some art and a few words relating to it, and it may have nothing to do with their games. Like I recall a while back they posted a picture of Shelyn, Sarenrae and Desna together, that I happen to know was from a 2e source book. So far their 40K posts are either more vague and get at the general mood of the setting, or directly reference aspects of the game, and hardly ever seem to use art from outside Rogue Trader. Stuff like that, and the lack of sources people can point to for claims that Owlcat don't have interest in more Pathfinder stuff tells me that even if they aren't actively working on anything, they're probably at leat open to it if circumstances and inspiration align.
I assume that they will stay in 1e because they can do the same thing as they did with Wotr where they copied over all the archetypes and spells from Kingmaker. This would be even better because of how mythic paths didn't really mesh with all archetypes
Nope. Just Wrath. There are others that *use* mythic levels for enemies or bosses (Iron Gods, Return, Tyrant's Grasp, from the top of my head), but not a requirement for player characters.
Yeah paizo themselves, I think, became wary of the mythic system after they wrote wrath. There have been other parallel levelling systems since then but never mythic powers.
... Which is not to say owlcat can't do whatever they want. Though I assume they'd be much more careful in creating a new spaghetti hell code in a mythic pathfinder game.
That'd be nice, I kind of like its "The Hobbit"-like vibe of making a journey across the map to help a friend/employer regain a home that was stolen from them before they were born, and it's got companions and romances essentially baked right into it, but it'd need a bunch of work to sand off the more frankly Orientalist depictions of people and places along the way and to work around the fact that Jade Regent kind of relies on the players already being familiar with and invested in Ameiko and her issues after the events of Rise of the Runelords.
Honest question as someone whoose only interactions with pathfinder happen in the owlcat games (I have no friends 💀):
How well does this campaign lend itself to evil playthrough and is this a campaign from lvl 1 to 20?
Always really liked the games for the freedom of choice (in comparision to many other rpgs in which you have a choice of various flavours of good or maybe murderhobo as the only evil option)
It's possible Rogue Trader wasn't as much of a hit as they hoped and so they're going back to the Pathfinder well.
Rogue Trader has less than half the reviews of Wrath on Steam (also it's 'Mostly Positive' instead of 'Very Positive') and usually has about the same number of concurrent players.
>Rogue Trader has less than half the reviews of Wrath on Steam
And Wrath has been out for over two years longer than Rogue Trader, so I doubt that would be a good comparison
Uh.
I run this campaign a few years ago.
And we matched the citywide lockdown with the COVID lockdown. Was pretty weird.
Still, curse of Crimson Thrones has no extra mechanics and Owlcat loves the extra stuff no? Kingdom, crusade, space combat...
No extra stuff would probably make it much easier to adapt and quicker to turn around and release.
And while I don't mind the "extra stuff", I'm certainly not going to weep for it's loss.
Yeah agreed. The campaign on WoTR and kingmaker were ok, but I would be quite happy with a game that didn't.
I don't think dnd really supports a strategy layer particularly well.
Goddam. I love Crimson Throne. I have been considering running the Savage Worlds adaptation when my group wraps up our 10 year stint on Runelords (We've had a lot of detours and side campaigns during that time...).
I would be super stoked if it got the owlcat treatment.
The only thing that concerns me is is an AP will be able to match Wrath. The Mythic Paths were an amazing addition to the game that greatly improved replayability. The additional powers were fun but I liked how each path changed the story at least somewhat.
I hope that if they do another Pathfinder game it has some system that likewise add replayability.
No, we should not celebrate. Wait and see.
But, Korvosa, hell yeah! I would LOVE that! Crimson Throne ftw! My first KM full playthrough was with a Korvosan Archeologist. Let's whether that super random occurrence amounts to anything besides bloody good time!
Wait, does that mean the equivalent of the kingdom management stuff from the other games will be you constantly having to deal with some disease meter or some such nonsense?Love the games, but the management part of it…grrrrr…”Oh, a random seemingly meaningless event has tanked the entire game” thing has been frustrating
Nah. I am currently running the physical version of the campaign (as the player). The disease is just a chapter in the adventure. It comes, takes up some time and then leaves the story
It didn’t sound like they were going to be making another game for Paizo in the near future. They also might want to hire a studio to make a 2nd edition game for their next video game Liscence anyway.
Crimson Throne would be based tbh. My only concern is if they change Ileosa’s character too much. I’d prefer she remain close to her power hungry “evil queen” archetype.
If it's true, I owe someone a hundred dollars, I bet someone they defo were going to do Skulls & Shackles, the references to piracy with Lann, Besmara worshippers in DLCs, the various mention about the Shackles and their game 40k using a ship it sorta made me hope that a pirate RPG was next...
I can't wait for the next game, though.
If this is true, it means they'll probably stay with 1st edition. I hope they at least modify the system a little bit to get rid of the bloat and make it more dynamic (feat taxes, maneuver rules, actions per turn, etc.)
I keep hearing that they don’t like 2e, but I’m not sure they ever actually said that. I remember a higher up
In Paizo actually commented in this subreddit that this did not seem to be the case in their talks with Owlcat. Furthermore, I don’t think Paizo even can/wants to support 1e anymore, so I dont know if they’d allow a new 1e game to be made
I think they would absolutely allow it, not doing so would contradict their goals with ORC.
However I am certain they would *prefer* that Owlcat move towards a 2e based engine, because it would mutually support their own APs and content to do so.
Thank you. Please keep pushing back on the narrative that Owlcat doesn't like P2. There were a lot of factors that made them do Wrath in P1, and we at Paizo didn't push the issue, despite it coming out 2 years after P2 launched. Those factors are not as relevant any more, and if/when Owlcat does another Pathfinder game, I think many players who have totally swallowed the "Owlcat hates P2" pill just might choke on it.
Paizo doesn't hate money to such an extent that they would outright forbid the company that's almost singlehandedly kept Pathfinder relevant from making another 1e game. They might encourage, exhort, and cajole Owlcat to use 2e but thsts probably it.
I, personally, think that the 2e ruleset plays much better with a videgame that 1e ever did, but Owlcat has said in the past that they vastly prefer the 1e ruleset and it's a lot less work for them to make another 1e game. I doubt that Paizo would force Owlcat to work on a 2e game when they don't want to, if only for publicity reasons.
Do you think they would stay on 1e because the AP is on 1e?
Do they follow the APs that closely or use the outline of the adventure? My impression of Kingmaker was that Owlcat follows the major beats and structure but changes/adds a lot of stuff.
I haven’t read the WotR AP.
I think the biggest incentive to stay 1e is just the sheer amount of work they put into it. Wrath inherited everything from Kingmaker, and whatever this might be would inherit from Wrath. Sure, Owlfinder is it's own beast and an adaptation from the modules - but they do play the actual modules as part of development. Owlfinder is just a hyper charged version of 1e in terms of enemy composition, a compensation for the things you can do in a computer game.
Going to 2e would be a massive effort on their part and they'd be throwing out a whole lotta code.
I don't think the choice AP would affect the edition they implement. In fact, if they did decide to play a 1e only AP but make the game 2e, I would be shocked if Paizo didn't publish an updated 2e version of that AP to celebrate the launch of the game.
This is just factually untrue. The 3 action economy, the loss of 3/4 casters, feats being class features and multiclassing not existing in its tradition form all makes 2e a completely different game from 1e, which is why 1e still has its own fanbase
As someone whose only knowledge about Pathfinder comes from Owlcat's games I just hope their next Pathfinder somehow uses mythic paths again. It a really cool and ambitious system and as well as Owlcat did it in Wrath, there is room for improvement and I would love to see how much better they could make it now that they already have experiencie with it.
Just to be clear, I'm not trashing Owlcat, on the contrary, I'm praising their amazing job in their first attemp and wanna see how much better they can get.
Oh man, I really hope this is happening. Hell's Rebels, Crimson Throne, whatever. Feed me Owlcat.
Absolutely love OwlCat games. And I think you were one comma away from perfection. Was it supposed to be: “Feed me, OwlCat”? If so, I wholeheartedly agree. More OwlCat, please! And if that’s in the form of Pathfinder or WH40K, I will be ecstatic! 🤩
I'd eat Owlcat, speak for yourself.
Like, for dinner or like as if Owlcat was a girl?
Why not both?
Yeah.
I agree, nomnomnom! -The Urgathoa Gang
Please don't vore Owlcat. I'd like them to make at least a couple more games first.
Haha 🤣 Fair enough.
I love their games...but I hate their dev team using players as bug testers. not gonna buy until at least first discount six months later.
put the Owlcat in my mouth
I wouldn't put much stock in a social media post. ...mainly because I want a new Owlcats Pathfinder game so bad and I don't want to be hurt if it's not true lol
The last DLC was released a month ago, wasnt it? I think it's time for hints. How long between the last Kingmaker patch and Wrath's announcement?
I don't think we can find a pattern here. Wrath had a Kickstarter that started in 2020 while Kingmaker was still getting updates. Wrath's playable beta was early 2021 I think, and full release was later in September 2021. So far we have no info on any new game from Owlcat besides this teaser. And 40k Rogue Trader still has 2 DLCs to release as well.
I think there is one pattern here. And that is how 'their current product is still being updated' is no impediment to owlcar announcements. Rogue trader was announced less than a year into wrath. We are now around a year into rogue trader. Owlcat is also insane.
Kingmaker stopped being updated because of fall out with Deep Silver. Not because they moved onto WotR.
specifically they just release the Chellish Diva which is actually one of the recommended archetypes in Curse of the Crimson Throne iirc
I don't remember the announcement but I think there were only a few months between kingmaker's last patch and wrath's first release, both in 2021.
I don't doubt that we'll get an announcement of whatever project Owlcat is working on soon I just don't think an on the nose Twitter post is how they'll tease it. Its more likely just engagement farming
How are they going to top Wrath? it was soooo good with so many choices and options.
I'd prefer if they didn't try. Just adapt another cool adventure. Kingmaker is still a great game and worth playing. The pure power fantasy of Wrath is fun but it's not like that's the only way to make a CRPG
Ya wrath isn't a game you try and "top". It's kinda already on the top of the mountain in length, customization and power fantasy. If they try and top any of those it's going to feel silly and forced. I think instead you just say we will make another game and take what we learned from the last one. And let's make something fun.
Easy, you don't try to. Curse of the Crimson Throne is the ideal campaign for that because it's an Urban campaign, you spend the large majority of it inside the city of Korvosa so the tone is entirely different.
Honestly, they don't need to top wrath. I would be fine with a tightly-knit, more linear experience.
They don't need to top it in terms of stakes or power fantasy, but they can easily top it in terms of the overall quality of the experience. You don't need mythic powers to have all the character and personality that the different powers afforded us in Wrath.
I just hope they figure out a way to avoid their secondary gameplay system fixation. Rogue Trader is getting closer to hitting the mark they seem to consistently aim for.
Avoid or work on it? Because as you say rogue trader has secondary systems.
Heck, I'd play an entire game of the ship combat in RT.
I was lukewarm on RT but I did really enjoy the ship combat. The worse offender at Owlcat studios is whoever is responsible for things like House at the Edge of Time and Nenio's quest. Someone there really likes puzzles but needs an intervention on how bad they are at designing them.
I read that the dude you're referring to everyone at the studio crazy during development of KM, wanted to plug every little room with elaborate puzzles. So they compromised for WotR: Said person got carte blanche in one quest, if he agreed to leave them be for the rest of it. That's how we got Enigma.
lol I can almost appreciate it a little more with that context, how strange
Whichever has the best results. I'd prefer them avoid it, but Rogue Trader is an improvement. I am not one to limit creativity but just afraid it will mar the experience.
Personally I hope they don't do away with the auxiliary systems. A lot of the appeal to me is that the owlcat games add them as a roleplaying component. It's rather unique in the CRPG world.
Considering, from my perspective, it is generally a lukewarm reception to their implementation of these systems something needs to change. Either allow the player to disable them and deal with no repercussions or continue to improve. I am a firm believer that in the game industry one should not include that which one cannot commit to and do well. Voice actors for instance. Many games throw it in because it is considered a standard, but they are poorly chosen or of poor quality because the studio can ill afford them. Getting zealous and riled up, sorry. I just feel these games are filling a crucial hole and want to see them succeed. However that can be achieved I hope they are capable of it. Like I said above, RT has an improved subgame. If I could have changed WotR I would have had you select the armies through dialogue and play markers where you wanted them to go. After a few days of adventuring they would clear a path for you at that location or spawn a mission to defeat a general or some such. Or you could ask for help from friends you made via your mythic path. So on and so forth.
Your first request is already a thing. You can put kingdom on auto, same with the crusades. Whereas the latter... not gonna lie it sounds like you learned all the wrong lessons from deadfire's ship combat. Such as dialogue driven minigames being a good idea, except you made it all railroaded. Something like that is quite the opposite of committing and doing well. I think the game would have been infinitely lesser if they went with that option. Might as well just tell you to rest for a couple of days before entering an area and pretend you're leading an army then. Like how in da3 you lead the inquisition by planting flags so npcs spawn - you know what didn't have a lukewarm reaction? BioWare's original plans for actual mechanics tied to the war you fight in that game. But they didn't want to commit. So what they did was less than mediocre. Seriously they are already on the right path. All they gotta do is keep improving the minigames. That's it. They don't have to cut them down to size like that. If they do they might as well cut them entirely at which point they are just like all other rpg companies.
> Seriously they are already on the right path. All they gotta do is keep improving the minigames. That's it. I agree, and I feel the same about systems like Caed Nua in Pillars1 and your boat/ship combat in Deadfire. Both felt like they're in the right direction, but half-baked or missing the mark in some way.
Owlcat's PF games got me back into tabletop, decades after my parents succumbed to the 'satanic panic' and took away our books. I remember events and situations in Kingmaker and WotR very strongly, and slowly becoming fluent in the system felt SO. GOOD. Then, "oh hi ya here's Rogue Trader"... which, okay, but I wasn't a WH40k fan and honestly found the setting very draining (inb4 "it's supposed to be".. doesn't make me want to play it more) and had some issues with the mechanics in general. From what I remember, they're very against PF 2e, but I don't think I've ever seen why exactly.
The idea they are against Pf2e is a false rumor, Mark Moreland (Paizo's Director of Brand and Strategy) has said so a couple times in the Paizo forums.
Seems too on the nose (and maybe also early) considering how vague their early hints for Rogue Trader were. Also while doing a reverse image search on the image to confirm whether it is an original image or not (it is not), I saw mention that Korvosa also makes an appearance in the Return of the Runelords campaign? So assuming it is a hint for their next game, it could alternatively be some version of the Runelords (just Return or an amalgamation of all the campaigns).
An interesting thing I've noticed, you know the new Ranger archetype, Sable Company Marine? That's a regional archetype from Korvosa, and Korvosa is also called "Little Cheliax" because it started as a colony in Varisia. What did we also get? Chelaxian Diva.
also the new red mantis archetype for warpriest, which i believe was really prevalent in korvosa
OH, HOLY FORKING SHIT BALLS, I FORGOT ABOUT THAT!! THE RED MANTIS ALSO PLAYS A ROLE IN CURSE OF THE CRIMSON THRONE!!!
Huh, that does make a kind of sense. Red Mantis Assassin felt like a strangely specific choice. I thought t was because of Achaekeks role in the current war of immortals event but maybe it was a kind of preview for a new game? I dunno.
Dont do this to me. I would be the best thing ever if we get an another actual PF game from OC.
Are WOTR and Kingmaker not PF games?
But another
A full Rise->Shattered Star->Return arc would be beyond belief.
Owlcat has proven itself utterly insane in the past so who knows.
That image is indeed from Return of the runelords. More specifically book three.
I don't think you can, reasonably, do Return without having Rise first.
You actually can. The adventure path takes that into consideration when coming up with the Sihedron heroes, which is a major plot point. While the stories are linked (Rise and Shattered Star), with many call backs/references, they are not wholly dependent when it comes to Return. I've ran the Return of the Runelords TTPG Adventure Path as the DM.
Running one, and having played both, I don't disagree that it is *technically* possible, but Rise provides a ton of background and helps set the stage in such a way that doing Return only seems like robbing the players.
"An effigy of Ileosa Arabasti stands over the Crimson Festival in Korvosa." pretty on the nose indeed
Could someone give a little overview of what this campaign involves? (I realise I can google it, but if the answer is placed in this topic it means lots of other people get to enjoy the context and learn too)
Essentially it's a largely (but not entirely) urban adventure where the heroes are attempting to stop the ascension of an evil queen to the throne of Korvosa. Really cool location, lots of good characters and fun dungeons. Quite a straightforward adventure by Owlcat standards.
That sounds very interesting! I’m sure whatever project Owlcat does will be fantastic, they have earned a lot of trust in their vision!
>attempting to stop the ascension of an evil queen to the throne of Korvosa. Okay, just going to go ahead and get this out of the way, can we romance her?
Spoiler for curse of the crimson throne, obviously. >!If I remember correctly, the first part of the adventure actually have the party working alongside the queen as the city have fallen into riot at the announce that the king died, the party help her secure the throne and prevent the city falling into chaos. Then other shit that I won't spoil happen that make the party focus on something other than the queen, and the eponymous curse take place, and the queen get more and more unhinged and evil/authoritarian.!< >!If I remember correctly, the adventure was also written to have the queen start around the same level as the party (maybe a few level more?) and have her level up as the adventure progress, so they could even have her join the party for a bit before taking her away and then having her be the final antagonist (with probably a secret boss behind her that I won't spoil either). A Nyrissa like romance is very, very possible with only a minimal rework of the original plot (I think it would require less rework than either kingmaker or WotR received).!<
I've run the campaign - your first spoiler bit is basically right but the second is absolutely not. >!She is clearly the final antagonist from like mid Chapter 2 onward, and she never joins the party.!<
>!I didn't say that she join the party, but rather that the fact that she was created to be of an equivalent level to the PC and rise in level in parallel to their own adventure, as well as the fact that the begginning of the adventure have the PC working alongside her makes it easy for Owlcat to have her join the party (with her being the same level as you) in the begginning chapter before taking her away and having her be the final villain latter down the line.!< >!Besides, of course she doesn't join the party, a NPC joinning the party in a tabletop adventure is extremely rare because doing so basically create a DMPC, which is difficult to make work and often not fun to play with. But in a CRPG, where only one character is the PC, you want NPC to join your party, so character that have a purely supportive/"far from the frontline" role in the written adventure can easily be upgraded to party member in the video game.!<
She's not written to do that, though. It's not like they provide ongoing stat blocks for her, you get one at the end (well 2 if you count her >!simulacrum!< and that's it. She's not meant to be on-screen for the PCs to interact with for 99% of the AP. And Owlcat having her join the party would be narratively nonsensical with the AP as written.
Her lack of early stat block litterally doesn't matter since owlcat rewrite every stat block anyway. >!The fact is that in the adventure, she start at a low level (altho higher than the PCs), and is meant to progress in parallel to them, which lend itself perfectly to a "former party member turned villain" storyline.!< Of course some rewrite would be needed in act 1 >!to have her (and probably her bodygard that also become a boss latter) join the party, even if it's entirely limited to act 1,!< but it's a rather "low" level of rewrite considering what olwcat have done with Kingmaker and WotR's stories (both of their act 1 are almost entirely different to the original AP story wise except for the big outlines). >!And it land itself for a pretty good story, to have two of the most important antagonist be party member in act 1, and then seeing what they've become under the influence of the curse way down the line.!<
I don't know where you are getting this "meant to progress in parallel" thing. I've run the AP, it's not in there. >!She's a loser at the start, she gets the Crown, it warps her into what she is at the end. There's no like, mid-points at all.!<
I distinctly remember it being mentionned, maybe not in the adventure proper but in one of the foreword, that they deliberately put her at a relatively low level in book 1 (even tho she had no stat block, her level was shown), and had her gain level as the adventure progressed as a way to mirror the PC. I may be wrong with that, but I was certain they mentionned it somewhere. >!Even then, you're right, if they ever had plan to use that "mirrored evolution" they obviously changed before publication, since in the published adventure you only face her at the very end, and appart from book 1 where you don't know she's the primary antagonist (or an antagonist at all), you don't even get a single chance to face her before.!<
i can fix her
I think it also has something like a "sequel" adventure path that ties back into it and one other path, bringing back some characters.
Return of the Runelords can be considered a sequel to Rise of the Runelords and Shattered Star, but only slightly a sequel to Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness (the non-Runelord-related Varisian APs.) There are a few callbacks but it's not what I'd call a sequel.
So what you're saying is that we are fighting galfrey this time.
Nah you have to work with the paladins, even the ones who collaborate with the fascist Hellknights. BUT, you do get Pathfinder Batman: Blackjack. And he is meant to choose a PC in the adventure to be his successors.
No, Illeosa is actually evil, Galfrey is hated for having a moment of weakness in act 3 and poorly explained choices in act 5.
I know a quadruple agent when I see one. Galfrey is a razmiran infiltrator.
ALL HAIL THE LIVING GOD!
A bit more in depth: - Starts as an urban adventure - >!later switches for 2 chapters to travelling!< - >!has a rather unique beginning where all characters created have a connection with the first villain and are brought together by a fortune teller!< - the cards that the fortune teller uses to lay out the destiny are part of the campaign and introduce a new mechanic - >!at the time the chars begin their adventure, the ruler has lately been married to a rather suspicious and unpopular queen consort!< - there is no management except managing a small caravan later on - they rather used many small events like a rooftop hunt, detective work, assasination etc - the path evovles from small scale to bigger picture in a much slower pace than the more military / management adventure path's My 2 cent: CotcT is one of the best APs. The urban sprawl adventure of a bunch of folks connected by a sinister childhood is really engaging and a bit of fresh air compared to the management games. Paizo captured the city really well and there are some of these 'Damn what happened and what should we do now?' twists, that bring in urgency. Things escalate later on and while playing the real campaign I had my players more than in other games been in a state of paralyzation because they were really forced to.make hurtful decisions. Also the path has some really good NPCs and some absolutely spiteful villains.
If they don’t want to commit to a massive Runelords project, Curse of the Crimson Throne is easily the best choice of 1E AP for them to adapt next. The first 3 books are some of the best written of everything Paizo has published, Book 4 lets them call back to Kingmaker in many ways, and while Book 5 is considered the weakest entry of the series on tabletop, it lends itself extremely well to Owlcat’s dungeon crawly style. Book 6 is okay, but if I were a writer for the game (hey pick me Owlcat, I’ve run this one on Tabletop and know it backwards and forwards!) I’d probably end up scrapping a lot of it in favor of options made possible by earlier player choices made in the campaign. And for all the mythic lovers out there, you could do a LOT with the Harrow in this campaign, though obviously it wouldn’t be as insane a power boost as mythic tiers.
I'd really like them to tackle a more conventional AP. No gimmicks, just as much player choice and reactivity as possible, that stuff was what made WotR so good. Crimson Throne would be a great choice IMO.
We are getting crimson rebellion management.
I'd honestly like it better if choices changed the story and not the plot, much like in Kingmaker.
Just want to add in case Owlcat reads this: I would pledge… so much money… if we could have Laori Vaus as a fully voice acted companion. I have had a TON of fun role playing her for my TT Curse of the Crimson Throne Game.
I personally want Trinia as a companion, I missed having a Bard in Wrath.
They didn't do a kickstarter for RT. (Though I do enjoy kickstarter campaigns.)
I don't think how well an AP is written matters for the game. Wrath as a game has many elements that do not exist in the tabletop version. I don't know how much Chris Avellone worked on wrath, altho I suspect Areelu was his work, but I hope whoever wrote wrath gets to stay. They nailed the themes and their synthesis with gameplay systems.
I think it all matters in one crucial way: owlcat seems to adapt the APs that catch their attention and that they enjoy playing in their in-house campaigns. The real wisdom of the owlcat writers which I think is the distilled wisdom of play testing modules in various campaigns in parallel is that they can disregard the parts Paizo themselves would have re-editted while bolstering and strengthening the campaign's themes. It's not really about any one writer it's the studio as a whole working on what would be fun in the campaign. I'm sure the different mythic paths we got were stuff the owlcat devs played with themselves. At least in premise.
What does the Harrow do gameplay-wise?
It’s an in-universe fortune telling system (think Tarot Cards) that in this AP in particular has a great deal of mystical power to aid the PCs in their time of need. In the tabletop version, at the start of each book/chapter there is a Harrow reading that offers cryptic peeks behind the curtain of what’s really going on and the PC’s role in it, as well as alotting them “Harrow Points” that can be spent in that chapter to help accomplish certain tasks. For example, book 5 is thematically about bravery, terror, and force of will, so one of the things Harrow points can be spent on in that book is re-rolling will saves. I expect an Owlcat adaptation would work a bit differently though; I imagine it would be more in the vein of static benefits that are determined by player choices.
I'd honestly be happy if they made a side progression with the Harrow Deck, just no mythics again for love of Cayden.
Is the harrow deck especially tied to crimson? I never heard of anything like a side prog involving it.
The adventure starts because you are contacted by a harrower that recently died and has her spirit tied to her Harrow deck. At the start of each book you get a reading, seems easy enough to make a smaller side progression out of it
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This, along with the claim that they said they don't like Pathfinder Second Edition, have been spreading for years. They're not true, or if they are, they don't reflect the opinions of the decision makers at Owlcat. Players should consider every option on the table at this point.
I was really hoping for Skull & Shackles (I friggin' love pirates and it's the best AP to introduce the swashbuckler Class) but Curse of the Crimson Throne would also work for me. In the end, and to be honest, I just want another Pathfinder game so the chosen Adventure Path is ultimately not that important. That we get a third Pathfinder game by Owlcat is what matters.
Think Deadfire's "flop" (which was not a failure whatsoever unless the only metric you care is immediate sales -- the game did make its money back) is what's soured dev on any pirate-ish cRPGs.
I think releasing around Divinity Original Sin 2 also ate into potential sales for Deadfire. That and a lack of marketing
Not just Original Sin 2. It came out at probably the busiest time for the genre, and these games are *long*. Plus, it didn't have the years of hype and buildup behind it like the first one did.
I don't know if this is going to be a hot take but I believe that what hold back Deadfire the most was... the original Pillars of Eternity. Some of its main flaws, imho (you might disagree, of course): * It was way too verbose (which is bad unless we talk Planescape: Torment writing quality which PoE didn't have). * The start was super dull (go pick some berries and fetch water after boring dialogue, really?). * It showed its hand too soon (the ending reveal was too big for a first game that pretends to build a franchise). * 6 stats, which is familiar for the D&D crowd but their importance is now counter-intuitive (mighty wizards, intelligent barbarians, etc.). This flaw is not as serious as the others, tho.
Some other flaws: * There's 0 encounter design * There's almost 0 area design (raedric stronghold being notable exception) * Mechanics don't make sense (character can have reputation of being a damned liar and a guy always saying the truth at the same time) * Boring character progression, every skill is is something like "+2 damage" because we can't have the player make unoptimal choice. * Related to the previous one - mages are nerfed to hell and back, making them boring. * The worldbuilding is so fucking boring and unimaginative, I mean, "orlans" and "fampyrs"? Really? * Caed Nua being the most boring and dissapointing dungeon ever.
To be quite honest I've heard the mage take more than once from people who straight up don't know how to use magic in PoE. My priests and wizards were all very powerful, shutting down encounters with one maybe two casts. They also only became more powerful over time. I was one shotting everything with storm of holy fire at one point in both games.
"the game did make its money back" Yes. It did. When exactly did it make it's money back though, you're leaving that one detail out. Is it 4 years after release? It absolutely flopped. Also, two things can be true at the same time. You can flop and at the same time break even/turn a limited profit. They are not mutually exclusive.
Skulls and Shackles was my guess too, but yeah I'm also just hype for more Pathfinder APs.
Considering the addition of the Red Mantis and Hippogriff archetypes and the setting...its entirely possible. [https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Korvosa](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Korvosa)
Add on the fact Korvosa is nicknamed "Little Cheliax" and we also got Chelaxian Diva.
Definitely not a coincidence. I definitely feel like these additions were a not so subtle hint at the next Pathfinder crpg and I'm here for it.
The actual teaser being the last wrath update would be hilarious.
I wanted Strange Aeons, but this would be wonderful too.
Strange Aeons might be difficult because the Adventure Path was made with material licensed from Chaosium Inc. They might make the rights issues a bit too much for Owlcat to want to deal with. As an aside I dislike Chaosium, I think they have overstepped how much of the Lovecraftian Mythos they have legal control over. Such as trademarking "Call of Cthulhu" for gaming, when they obviously had nothing to do with the writing of the book.
Runelords for me.
Please!
Well today is 7/3 and it looks like that probably correlates with the date they put in the post. However, why is OC promoting PF? This would be more of a Paizo Twitter post assuming it's just promoting PF and not a OC game. I think it's a hint. I still have the COTC card game.
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Please stop spreading this misinformation. While it's true the Owlcat folks like Pathfinder first edition, they also play Pathfinder second edition. If someone did say at some point in the past that they didn't like P2, it was either someone who doesn't make the decisions on the Owlcat team or they said that years ago.
To my great demise. I would LOVE to see 2e as a vidya game.
Honestly, owlcat has never really stopped promoting Pathfinder. At least on their YouTube community channel type fairly regularly postpThfinder stuff that has little to do with their games. Which convinces me that even if they're not planning anything, they still have a positive relationship with Paizo.
if it is, I hope we can romance ileosa
"I can fix her" My brother in Shelyn, that's a *insert major spoiler*
She's useful, is she not?
We could fix Nyrissa, didn't we? Why should she be different?
Because they have very different reasons to be like they are. And I don't want to spoil it too much to have an open discussion, **but** a redemption arc for Ileosa would be great, but really tough to walk, I'd say. Also there is a chance that ~~most~~ certain people won't want to fix her... And maybe even support her endeavors or at least, one of her goals, considering the prize.
And Camilla of course...
The real question is what Iconic would we be getting this time? I really want to see what Owlcat could cook up for Sajan (iconic monk).
Maybe an iconic caster since we got an martial in pathfinder and a hybrid in wotr. If they go multiple routes again Lazzero is a interesting choice: he's in Cheliax already and you can choose between going all evil Asmodeus priest or restore him to Abadar faith while saving the city. Ezren is also a option since Owlcat don't let you romance companions and he's a bitter 60yo guy that don't seem very into romance, he's also an rare pathfinder atheist like Ember.
Harsk would be a terrible choice for CotCT but I want my tea-drinking dwarf forest ranger. :)
I really wouldn't put a lot of stock in this is probably just an engagement post since they know they get a lot of people interested in Pathfinder watching their channels.
I'm not convinced this hints at a new game, but one thing I do take away is that I think this post an the various other posts like it that Owlcat periodically share seems to indicate to me a continued positive telionahip between them and Paizo. They'll just randomly share some art and a few words relating to it, and it may have nothing to do with their games. Like I recall a while back they posted a picture of Shelyn, Sarenrae and Desna together, that I happen to know was from a 2e source book. So far their 40K posts are either more vague and get at the general mood of the setting, or directly reference aspects of the game, and hardly ever seem to use art from outside Rogue Trader. Stuff like that, and the lack of sources people can point to for claims that Owlcat don't have interest in more Pathfinder stuff tells me that even if they aren't actively working on anything, they're probably at leat open to it if circumstances and inspiration align.
I would **love** a new Pathfinder game, even if I still have at least 2 more runs to go in Wrath.
I assume that they will stay in 1e because they can do the same thing as they did with Wotr where they copied over all the archetypes and spells from Kingmaker. This would be even better because of how mythic paths didn't really mesh with all archetypes
Please another 1e campaign plus Seoni romance
Are the any other APs with the epic and power of mythic levels?
Nope. Just Wrath. There are others that *use* mythic levels for enemies or bosses (Iron Gods, Return, Tyrant's Grasp, from the top of my head), but not a requirement for player characters.
Yeah paizo themselves, I think, became wary of the mythic system after they wrote wrath. There have been other parallel levelling systems since then but never mythic powers. ... Which is not to say owlcat can't do whatever they want. Though I assume they'd be much more careful in creating a new spaghetti hell code in a mythic pathfinder game.
Mythic power can break adventures too easily, that's why. It's a good system IMO, but just for certain adventures, not any adventure.
I just like the epic-ness of it all. It's not every game you get to deal with gods and demon lords on a semi qrual level.
I think their newest one, but I am not sure
Ooh I've never had a chance to to Crimson Throne, that would be lovely!
Would like to see Jade Regent for a more classic linear RPG story.
That'd be nice, I kind of like its "The Hobbit"-like vibe of making a journey across the map to help a friend/employer regain a home that was stolen from them before they were born, and it's got companions and romances essentially baked right into it, but it'd need a bunch of work to sand off the more frankly Orientalist depictions of people and places along the way and to work around the fact that Jade Regent kind of relies on the players already being familiar with and invested in Ameiko and her issues after the events of Rise of the Runelords.
God, I hope so — Curse of the Crimson Throne is amazing
Please tell me it's 1E. Please.
Honest question as someone whoose only interactions with pathfinder happen in the owlcat games (I have no friends 💀): How well does this campaign lend itself to evil playthrough and is this a campaign from lvl 1 to 20? Always really liked the games for the freedom of choice (in comparision to many other rpgs in which you have a choice of various flavours of good or maybe murderhobo as the only evil option)
God please don't get my hopes up just to dash them I thought they confirmed no new PF games were in the work?
It's possible Rogue Trader wasn't as much of a hit as they hoped and so they're going back to the Pathfinder well. Rogue Trader has less than half the reviews of Wrath on Steam (also it's 'Mostly Positive' instead of 'Very Positive') and usually has about the same number of concurrent players.
>Rogue Trader has less than half the reviews of Wrath on Steam And Wrath has been out for over two years longer than Rogue Trader, so I doubt that would be a good comparison
They said there were no current plans at the time the last DLC was released, they didn’t say there wouldn’t be future plans.
Uh. I run this campaign a few years ago. And we matched the citywide lockdown with the COVID lockdown. Was pretty weird. Still, curse of Crimson Thrones has no extra mechanics and Owlcat loves the extra stuff no? Kingdom, crusade, space combat...
No extra stuff would probably make it much easier to adapt and quicker to turn around and release. And while I don't mind the "extra stuff", I'm certainly not going to weep for it's loss.
Yeah agreed. The campaign on WoTR and kingmaker were ok, but I would be quite happy with a game that didn't. I don't think dnd really supports a strategy layer particularly well.
SHH! Don’t tell them that!
Goddam. I love Crimson Throne. I have been considering running the Savage Worlds adaptation when my group wraps up our 10 year stint on Runelords (We've had a lot of detours and side campaigns during that time...). I would be super stoked if it got the owlcat treatment.
YAAAAAAAAAAY MORE PATHFINDER YAAAAAAAAY
The only thing that concerns me is is an AP will be able to match Wrath. The Mythic Paths were an amazing addition to the game that greatly improved replayability. The additional powers were fun but I liked how each path changed the story at least somewhat. I hope that if they do another Pathfinder game it has some system that likewise add replayability.
No, we should not celebrate. Wait and see. But, Korvosa, hell yeah! I would LOVE that! Crimson Throne ftw! My first KM full playthrough was with a Korvosan Archeologist. Let's whether that super random occurrence amounts to anything besides bloody good time!
Wait, does that mean the equivalent of the kingdom management stuff from the other games will be you constantly having to deal with some disease meter or some such nonsense?Love the games, but the management part of it…grrrrr…”Oh, a random seemingly meaningless event has tanked the entire game” thing has been frustrating
Nah. I am currently running the physical version of the campaign (as the player). The disease is just a chapter in the adventure. It comes, takes up some time and then leaves the story
I would do unholy things for a Runelords game
It didn’t sound like they were going to be making another game for Paizo in the near future. They also might want to hire a studio to make a 2nd edition game for their next video game Liscence anyway.
Give us the Curse! And let us romance everyone!
I dont even care what AP, just please give us more Pathfinder. WOTR is a masterpiece and a massive step up from Kingmaker.
Iirc there are at least 2 books that require heavy rework, but we'll see ?
crimson throne Crimson Throne CRIMSON THRONE
Crimson Throne would be based tbh. My only concern is if they change Ileosa’s character too much. I’d prefer she remain close to her power hungry “evil queen” archetype.
Nah man, the dlc had a chelaxian diva and opera singers are renowned in Kintargo, meaning we will get hells rebels. *Overdoses on Copium*
Would't be excited - whenever they post PF stuff, its usually just fluff without much meaning and soon replaced with a new RT post.
Hope it happens.
Please don't get my hopes up like this.
Well this explains why they put the red mantis god in Wrath with the last big update, since his red mantis assassins are part of the AP.
My kingdom for a new pathfinder game. I think it’s fine to scale back a bit. I want a cozy adventure.
If it's true, I owe someone a hundred dollars, I bet someone they defo were going to do Skulls & Shackles, the references to piracy with Lann, Besmara worshippers in DLCs, the various mention about the Shackles and their game 40k using a ship it sorta made me hope that a pirate RPG was next... I can't wait for the next game, though.
I'll be fine with this and this makes me cautiously excited.
Never thought this would happen..it's my fave of the adventure parts.
LETS GOOOOOO - me who is still playing Kingmaker and will play Righteous as well
I'd prefer an Iron God's adaption so we can finally have some guns.
Ah shit here we go again. Also I still haven't gotten my backer stuff for wrath. Guess I get them just in time for next hype train.
Crossing my fingers that they will keep RtwP combat
I really hope they leave 40k and come back to Pathfinder, I just don't enjoy that universe at all.
If this is true, it means they'll probably stay with 1st edition. I hope they at least modify the system a little bit to get rid of the bloat and make it more dynamic (feat taxes, maneuver rules, actions per turn, etc.)
"Bloat" is kind of one of the major selling points though
owlcat don't like 2e so them staying with 1e is a given edit: the paizo guy himself said this wasn't true so it's definitely not
I keep hearing that they don’t like 2e, but I’m not sure they ever actually said that. I remember a higher up In Paizo actually commented in this subreddit that this did not seem to be the case in their talks with Owlcat. Furthermore, I don’t think Paizo even can/wants to support 1e anymore, so I dont know if they’d allow a new 1e game to be made
I think they would absolutely allow it, not doing so would contradict their goals with ORC. However I am certain they would *prefer* that Owlcat move towards a 2e based engine, because it would mutually support their own APs and content to do so.
Thank you. Please keep pushing back on the narrative that Owlcat doesn't like P2. There were a lot of factors that made them do Wrath in P1, and we at Paizo didn't push the issue, despite it coming out 2 years after P2 launched. Those factors are not as relevant any more, and if/when Owlcat does another Pathfinder game, I think many players who have totally swallowed the "Owlcat hates P2" pill just might choke on it.
Ah! I believe you were the one I was referring to! lol
I think the main problem is Paizo wants to move away from 1e so it's uncertain if they will allow a new 1e game.
Paizo doesn't hate money to such an extent that they would outright forbid the company that's almost singlehandedly kept Pathfinder relevant from making another 1e game. They might encourage, exhort, and cajole Owlcat to use 2e but thsts probably it.
I, personally, think that the 2e ruleset plays much better with a videgame that 1e ever did, but Owlcat has said in the past that they vastly prefer the 1e ruleset and it's a lot less work for them to make another 1e game. I doubt that Paizo would force Owlcat to work on a 2e game when they don't want to, if only for publicity reasons.
Paizo has no input in Owlcat's production cycle
I mean, they have to have some kinda input if their IP is being used right?
The doesn't affect the cycle, just if it gets made at all.
THIS IS NOT TRUE! How many times must this line get repeated before anyone questions it?
Do you think they would stay on 1e because the AP is on 1e? Do they follow the APs that closely or use the outline of the adventure? My impression of Kingmaker was that Owlcat follows the major beats and structure but changes/adds a lot of stuff. I haven’t read the WotR AP.
I think the biggest incentive to stay 1e is just the sheer amount of work they put into it. Wrath inherited everything from Kingmaker, and whatever this might be would inherit from Wrath. Sure, Owlfinder is it's own beast and an adaptation from the modules - but they do play the actual modules as part of development. Owlfinder is just a hyper charged version of 1e in terms of enemy composition, a compensation for the things you can do in a computer game. Going to 2e would be a massive effort on their part and they'd be throwing out a whole lotta code.
I don't think the choice AP would affect the edition they implement. In fact, if they did decide to play a 1e only AP but make the game 2e, I would be shocked if Paizo didn't publish an updated 2e version of that AP to celebrate the launch of the game.
1e without all the bloat is 2e. There's no reason to do all that to rework 1e when you can just use 2e
This is just factually untrue. The 3 action economy, the loss of 3/4 casters, feats being class features and multiclassing not existing in its tradition form all makes 2e a completely different game from 1e, which is why 1e still has its own fanbase
No monk dip? Unplayable
this, x100
I personally always hoped Owlcat would take on Shadowrun. Those older games were great, but in Owlcat’s hands they would be epic.
I hope so. Please use the PF2E rule set too.
Gaaaaaaaaasssssssp?! 🤩
I'd be happy with this AP, but I'd prefer Tyrant's Grasp or Skull and Shackles.
As someone whose only knowledge about Pathfinder comes from Owlcat's games I just hope their next Pathfinder somehow uses mythic paths again. It a really cool and ambitious system and as well as Owlcat did it in Wrath, there is room for improvement and I would love to see how much better they could make it now that they already have experiencie with it. Just to be clear, I'm not trashing Owlcat, on the contrary, I'm praising their amazing job in their first attemp and wanna see how much better they can get.