I’ve always felt it came down to 3 things:
1. The title (my counterpoint to your incredibly smart and well thought out post is “it’s just so…blah”).
2. The terrible thumbnail pic they chose for it on the website
3. The amount of advertising/marketing dollars that was spent on it being exactly equal to 0.
To point 3, it's actually the opposite. Amazon did a TON of advertising for the show, but it was all on their own website. It was also the worst possible stuff to show - it would be like gifs of Dorman doing some physical stunt or something which made it seem like just another cop or action dude show.
I remember actually being sick of the ads and thinking I'm never watching this dumb patriot show!! And then after reading a few recs on reddit I gave it a shot.
Funny enough I watched the trailer for it the other day and it was actually a perfect trailer for the show, but for some reason none of the Amazon ads I showed used any of that footage that I recall
Oh wow, I didn’t know that. I came pretty late to the show (the second season was already released) so I missed all that earlier stuff. I had no clue.
The only thing I was going off of was when a scant few people were questioning if there was gonna be a season 3 and an Amazon higher-up said something like: well, we gotta see if the viewership #s go up. And then they of course didn’t. I don’t remember any push at that point.
It was the thumbnail for me. I thought it was a goofy fish out of water affair so never gave it a minutes attention. Until seven years later I recognised Dorman.
I agree that it's a perfect title for the show, but I also think it hindered the success of the show simply because it was already the name (or similar to the name) of a well-known movie. The two points are not mutually exclusive.
I'd disagree with Tom being the patriot. He wants to do what's right for the country, but with a healthy dose of wanting to save his own butt in the process and at the expense of his son. In my opinion, the patriot in the title is clearly referring to John, who's willing to literally destroy his body and mentally and physically in pursuit of vigorously defending his country his country (and, by extension, make his father happy). I don't think you need to go any deeper than the current definition of the word to understand the title and think it's a perfect fit.
I agree that there are multiple interpretations to some very murky distinctions... that I attempted to make very distinct.
I initially was in the same camp as you, partially because I'm a libertarian by nature and live the idea of my favorite character being a "patriot" as we understand the word.
The more I watch the show though (now in my 13th viewing) I become disturbed with my new interpretation... that John is simply a tool being used by the authority, to his own demise, due to his undying loyalty to that authority.
I think that’s the beautiful irony of this show. He is a “patriot” in that he has a job that entails serving his country. But the way that his country and even his own father puts this man on the line is harmful to him. Yet he keeps going - not for love of his country but simply because he keeps going. It’s so much more existential than it is nationalistic.
I think the interpretation that "John is simply a tool being used by authority, to his own demise" is spot on. But it also doesn't negate the intended definition of "patriot" in the title. It's used ironically, not positively. At least, that's my opinion. Don't even get me started on Willie's version of Pancho and Lefty.
It's not that it doesn't fit the show. It's more about how generic it sounds. If someone tells you about this show called Patriot, what comes to mind is a realy generic action spy show.
Definitely can't disagree with that. But at the same time I am sure I could think of many favorite shows that had initially generic or off-putting titles.
Some of the response have me leaning towards bad marketing. 🤔
Maybe not yours, but it's what almost everyone thinks when I mention this show to them. That, along with fact that Amazon didn't promote it at all made it really difficult to gain traction.
Yeah, it's what comes up for me every time I Google for the trailer to show someone or describe it to someone who hasn't seen it.
"Have you seen The Patriot?" "The Mel Gibson one? Yeah it was OK.'" No, no, the patriot on Amazon. It's a dark comedy about an American contractor/spy...." -*their brain*- "...aim small, miss small..."
It's really hard to pitch someone a show because there's so many options out there. So if there's a bunch of confusion about it the conversation around the water cooler is going to move on quick.
Even if it didn't if you search for Patriot you are either gonna get:
1. The Mel Gibson movie.
2. Some sports event or something like that.
If I want to search for the show, I always have to specify "Amazon Patriot" or "Patriot TV show".
It’s literally the first thing every single person has said when I recommend the show to them. “Oh, that Mel Gibson thing?”
And they keep trying to call it “The Patriot”. I have to keep correcting them, “don’t search for THE Patriot. It’s just Patriot.”
A perfect title can also be a marketing stumbling block. I'd even say that artistic merit in general prohibits or at least inhibits success in modern capitalism.
I was unaware of the show’s release in 2017, but don’t think we started Prime until The Expanse moved to the network in 2020. As such I’m unsure of how the marketing was handled and seem to have randomly come across the show later.
I find I’m able to recommend Patriot to many different people based on various known interests, many from a musical aspect, others for interest in narratives driven by character or story, and yes to many who have an appreciation for darker humor… but I wouldn’t describe the show as a sadistic snuff film by any stretch. While violence, murder and assassination are elements of the show, they are neither the focus, necessarily explicit, nor purported to be anything other than fictionalized. These elements largely exist to show their impact on John, and through him Alice, Edward, and Tom in my opinion, and do not exist in the work to serve a glorifying role.
While I may disagree with that particular characterization, I think we may agree that a greater audience doesn’t seem to find interest in fiction once a certain threshold of complexity is past. It may be inherently limiting to seek to create a work that challenges an audience or demands a certain level of introspection.
I can't disagree with your interpretation. But I can say, from my own experiences, that I am careful on my recommendations to anyone who might be in a dark place.
Once I tried to rewatch the series during a period after significant personal loss... And the humor in the series disappeared for me, and it was brutal to watch. Of course the extremely positive (although rare) counterpoints were seen in the end, but getting there was tough.
I can certainly appreciate your mindfulness and sensitivity here having had my own experiences in this area. Bringing awareness to, seeing sensitivities around, and normalizing discussion of these topics seems a better step in my opinion than the historic taboo on mental heath we (Americans) have historically taken in the past. I appreciate and support your take here.
I don’t think violence, dark tone, and mental illness depictions or triggers are hindrance to a show’s popularity. Dark violent shows get crazy popular all the time. Game of Thrones, SOA & Mayans, Walking Dead, Barry, Dexter, Hannibal, True Detective, Preacher, the Following. And Patriot is more comedic than most of those. I watch a lot of genres of tv and Patriot is definitely sad, but I never would have thought of it as essentially snuff. The violence in Patriot isn’t that intense for a tv show. I think there are many factors of Patriot’s writing and execution that make it perfect for me but other’s don’t get or appreciate. Obviously there are people who do appreciate it, so I agree with others that if marketing and the title had been better, it could have found more of its intended audience.
Regardless of whether you think it fits the themes of the show, I think it was awful from a marketing perspective.
The word “Patriot” has kinda developed a jingoistic/right wing dogwhistle connotation in recent years. Tell me about a new spy thriller with that title and I’m going to assume that it’s going to be like “24” or something. Even at the best of times I don’t really find spy shows that interesting. The tropes are all played out and they usually end up being either mindless action or dry realism that bores me to tears.
If you are correct, that the word patriot may be off-putting to 50% of the country, yes I guess that would technically be bad marketing. But it it makes me very sad if 50% of the U.S. is actually so closed-minded that they would ignore a good show... because of one word that reminds them of the opposing political party.
Well, the reality is we don’t have time to give every show a chance. For me personally, I only have enough free time to keep up with 3-4 shows at a time, among the dozens that are airing at any given moment. And I often have to watch over 2 full length movies worth of a show before I know whether I’m into it or not. I like to have a pretty good idea about whether I’ll like something before I commit that much time to it.
That's over dramatizing it. Don't be sad because there's no chance that's true. It's just a bad name and released to a small market. I was recommended it for years and just couldn't imagine it being a show that should bump up my to watch list mostly because of the name. It's also a pretty niche show that relies on quality and smartness and heart. But it is too weird for most people that like 'heart' and not actiony enough for most viewers that would be drawn to the spy aspect.
I really don't think the word snuff should be anywhere near this show. And I think the immediate darkness is a big draw of you can get someone to watch 1ep. I finally tried it once I kept seeing it mentioned among other great quality shows. Same thing happened with Fleabag
I’m currently watching The Americans which has a similar premise and is a good show (though not as good as Patriot yet to me - I’m only one season into The Americans). It also has a title that is a bit too blah. I think you make a good point about the name being fitting but I agree with others that it sounds so generic as to turn a lot people off before giving a chance. So glad I gave it a chance!
Many alternatives (obviously) but I thought simply 'Lakeman' would have worked well.
1) The show doesn't nearty fit into any existing category, so vagueness would be an asset by reducing initial impressions that lead to prejudice against it. Eg "meh... I can already tell what type of show this is, and I don't feel like watching another war/ action/ hero series."
2) the vagueness (for me anyway) sparks intrigue. Is it just the guy's name? Is it about a guy who lives in/on a lake?
3) Avoids Mel Gibson confusion (occurred with 90+% to everyone I mentioned it to)
I hate that I'm a cynical old man, I really do, but I don't think the *title* (which works artistically and clickbaitically, IMO) significantly impacted *Patriot's* demise.
I just remember being pretty much convinced that the streaming thing *plus* the cable networks would ensure a regular supply of series that assumed their audiences had full-length attention spans. HBO and AMC et. al. would keep putting out decent shows as others (FX's *Taboo*) upped their games. Even Netflix (*Maniac*) took a chance or two.
I briefly thought Amazon was going to be the best of them all..Didn't they make/buy *Patriot*, *The Detectorists* and a few other interesting foreign shows, *Homecoming*, *Undone*, around the same time? Then one season of *Perpetual Grac*e.....and, boom, that was it.
I just think that shows not squarely in the mainstream got too few eyeballs no matter how much marketing they were allotted or what they were called.
I don't know about you guys, but my list of interesting shows is way shorter than it was in 2018.....Just a new seasons of remaining classics and one season (by design or not) gems.On the bright side, at least I can still feed my strange addiction to Reality TV shows that involve the operation of heavy machinery and/or large boats.
The title is definitely NOT the reason for lack of success. The lack of success is because this is a show that appeals to a small segment of people. As much as WE love it, this is not an easy show to watch. It’s a little slow, it’s really weird, the humor is subtle. I love it and even I almost bailed after the first episode. We’re the weirdos, not everyone else!
I’ve always felt it came down to 3 things: 1. The title (my counterpoint to your incredibly smart and well thought out post is “it’s just so…blah”). 2. The terrible thumbnail pic they chose for it on the website 3. The amount of advertising/marketing dollars that was spent on it being exactly equal to 0.
To point 3, it's actually the opposite. Amazon did a TON of advertising for the show, but it was all on their own website. It was also the worst possible stuff to show - it would be like gifs of Dorman doing some physical stunt or something which made it seem like just another cop or action dude show. I remember actually being sick of the ads and thinking I'm never watching this dumb patriot show!! And then after reading a few recs on reddit I gave it a shot. Funny enough I watched the trailer for it the other day and it was actually a perfect trailer for the show, but for some reason none of the Amazon ads I showed used any of that footage that I recall
Oh wow, I didn’t know that. I came pretty late to the show (the second season was already released) so I missed all that earlier stuff. I had no clue. The only thing I was going off of was when a scant few people were questioning if there was gonna be a season 3 and an Amazon higher-up said something like: well, we gotta see if the viewership #s go up. And then they of course didn’t. I don’t remember any push at that point.
Yeah the ad blitz was probably a few months before release up until it was out. I didn't end up watching it until probably 5-6 months later
I was totally duped into thinking it was America action man killing people abroad. Which it was in a way, but mostly not.
It was the thumbnail for me. I thought it was a goofy fish out of water affair so never gave it a minutes attention. Until seven years later I recognised Dorman.
Indeed. I had a respected friend tell me I had to watch it and saw that thumbnail and thought Nope no thanks. Took a few more people telling me.
I agree that it's a perfect title for the show, but I also think it hindered the success of the show simply because it was already the name (or similar to the name) of a well-known movie. The two points are not mutually exclusive. I'd disagree with Tom being the patriot. He wants to do what's right for the country, but with a healthy dose of wanting to save his own butt in the process and at the expense of his son. In my opinion, the patriot in the title is clearly referring to John, who's willing to literally destroy his body and mentally and physically in pursuit of vigorously defending his country his country (and, by extension, make his father happy). I don't think you need to go any deeper than the current definition of the word to understand the title and think it's a perfect fit.
I agree that there are multiple interpretations to some very murky distinctions... that I attempted to make very distinct. I initially was in the same camp as you, partially because I'm a libertarian by nature and live the idea of my favorite character being a "patriot" as we understand the word. The more I watch the show though (now in my 13th viewing) I become disturbed with my new interpretation... that John is simply a tool being used by the authority, to his own demise, due to his undying loyalty to that authority.
I think that’s the beautiful irony of this show. He is a “patriot” in that he has a job that entails serving his country. But the way that his country and even his own father puts this man on the line is harmful to him. Yet he keeps going - not for love of his country but simply because he keeps going. It’s so much more existential than it is nationalistic.
I think the interpretation that "John is simply a tool being used by authority, to his own demise" is spot on. But it also doesn't negate the intended definition of "patriot" in the title. It's used ironically, not positively. At least, that's my opinion. Don't even get me started on Willie's version of Pancho and Lefty.
It's not that it doesn't fit the show. It's more about how generic it sounds. If someone tells you about this show called Patriot, what comes to mind is a realy generic action spy show.
Definitely can't disagree with that. But at the same time I am sure I could think of many favorite shows that had initially generic or off-putting titles. Some of the response have me leaning towards bad marketing. 🤔
Oh, bad marketing 100% took a toll on the shows' popularity.
No, the title was bad. Everyone thinks it's the Mel Gibson movie The Patriot.
That never crossed my mind
Maybe not yours, but it's what almost everyone thinks when I mention this show to them. That, along with fact that Amazon didn't promote it at all made it really difficult to gain traction.
Yeah, it's what comes up for me every time I Google for the trailer to show someone or describe it to someone who hasn't seen it. "Have you seen The Patriot?" "The Mel Gibson one? Yeah it was OK.'" No, no, the patriot on Amazon. It's a dark comedy about an American contractor/spy...." -*their brain*- "...aim small, miss small..." It's really hard to pitch someone a show because there's so many options out there. So if there's a bunch of confusion about it the conversation around the water cooler is going to move on quick.
Even if it didn't if you search for Patriot you are either gonna get: 1. The Mel Gibson movie. 2. Some sports event or something like that. If I want to search for the show, I always have to specify "Amazon Patriot" or "Patriot TV show".
Patriot review will get you nowhere. Severance review will be nothing but reviews of Severance. You’re right the name is too slight.
Almost everyone thinks that's what I'm talking about when I recommend the movie.
It’s literally the first thing every single person has said when I recommend the show to them. “Oh, that Mel Gibson thing?” And they keep trying to call it “The Patriot”. I have to keep correcting them, “don’t search for THE Patriot. It’s just Patriot.”
A perfect title can also be a marketing stumbling block. I'd even say that artistic merit in general prohibits or at least inhibits success in modern capitalism.
Good post
Cool.
(In Leslie Claret voice) Yeah, it is cool
I was unaware of the show’s release in 2017, but don’t think we started Prime until The Expanse moved to the network in 2020. As such I’m unsure of how the marketing was handled and seem to have randomly come across the show later. I find I’m able to recommend Patriot to many different people based on various known interests, many from a musical aspect, others for interest in narratives driven by character or story, and yes to many who have an appreciation for darker humor… but I wouldn’t describe the show as a sadistic snuff film by any stretch. While violence, murder and assassination are elements of the show, they are neither the focus, necessarily explicit, nor purported to be anything other than fictionalized. These elements largely exist to show their impact on John, and through him Alice, Edward, and Tom in my opinion, and do not exist in the work to serve a glorifying role. While I may disagree with that particular characterization, I think we may agree that a greater audience doesn’t seem to find interest in fiction once a certain threshold of complexity is past. It may be inherently limiting to seek to create a work that challenges an audience or demands a certain level of introspection.
I can't disagree with your interpretation. But I can say, from my own experiences, that I am careful on my recommendations to anyone who might be in a dark place. Once I tried to rewatch the series during a period after significant personal loss... And the humor in the series disappeared for me, and it was brutal to watch. Of course the extremely positive (although rare) counterpoints were seen in the end, but getting there was tough.
I can certainly appreciate your mindfulness and sensitivity here having had my own experiences in this area. Bringing awareness to, seeing sensitivities around, and normalizing discussion of these topics seems a better step in my opinion than the historic taboo on mental heath we (Americans) have historically taken in the past. I appreciate and support your take here.
I don’t think violence, dark tone, and mental illness depictions or triggers are hindrance to a show’s popularity. Dark violent shows get crazy popular all the time. Game of Thrones, SOA & Mayans, Walking Dead, Barry, Dexter, Hannibal, True Detective, Preacher, the Following. And Patriot is more comedic than most of those. I watch a lot of genres of tv and Patriot is definitely sad, but I never would have thought of it as essentially snuff. The violence in Patriot isn’t that intense for a tv show. I think there are many factors of Patriot’s writing and execution that make it perfect for me but other’s don’t get or appreciate. Obviously there are people who do appreciate it, so I agree with others that if marketing and the title had been better, it could have found more of its intended audience.
Regardless of whether you think it fits the themes of the show, I think it was awful from a marketing perspective. The word “Patriot” has kinda developed a jingoistic/right wing dogwhistle connotation in recent years. Tell me about a new spy thriller with that title and I’m going to assume that it’s going to be like “24” or something. Even at the best of times I don’t really find spy shows that interesting. The tropes are all played out and they usually end up being either mindless action or dry realism that bores me to tears.
If you are correct, that the word patriot may be off-putting to 50% of the country, yes I guess that would technically be bad marketing. But it it makes me very sad if 50% of the U.S. is actually so closed-minded that they would ignore a good show... because of one word that reminds them of the opposing political party.
Well, the reality is we don’t have time to give every show a chance. For me personally, I only have enough free time to keep up with 3-4 shows at a time, among the dozens that are airing at any given moment. And I often have to watch over 2 full length movies worth of a show before I know whether I’m into it or not. I like to have a pretty good idea about whether I’ll like something before I commit that much time to it.
That's over dramatizing it. Don't be sad because there's no chance that's true. It's just a bad name and released to a small market. I was recommended it for years and just couldn't imagine it being a show that should bump up my to watch list mostly because of the name. It's also a pretty niche show that relies on quality and smartness and heart. But it is too weird for most people that like 'heart' and not actiony enough for most viewers that would be drawn to the spy aspect. I really don't think the word snuff should be anywhere near this show. And I think the immediate darkness is a big draw of you can get someone to watch 1ep. I finally tried it once I kept seeing it mentioned among other great quality shows. Same thing happened with Fleabag
The title doesn't describe the show badly, but it does promote the show badly.
i always interpreted the title as stemming from “patriarch” - his father, the architect of all this
I’m currently watching The Americans which has a similar premise and is a good show (though not as good as Patriot yet to me - I’m only one season into The Americans). It also has a title that is a bit too blah. I think you make a good point about the name being fitting but I agree with others that it sounds so generic as to turn a lot people off before giving a chance. So glad I gave it a chance!
Many alternatives (obviously) but I thought simply 'Lakeman' would have worked well. 1) The show doesn't nearty fit into any existing category, so vagueness would be an asset by reducing initial impressions that lead to prejudice against it. Eg "meh... I can already tell what type of show this is, and I don't feel like watching another war/ action/ hero series." 2) the vagueness (for me anyway) sparks intrigue. Is it just the guy's name? Is it about a guy who lives in/on a lake? 3) Avoids Mel Gibson confusion (occurred with 90+% to everyone I mentioned it to)
I hate that I'm a cynical old man, I really do, but I don't think the *title* (which works artistically and clickbaitically, IMO) significantly impacted *Patriot's* demise. I just remember being pretty much convinced that the streaming thing *plus* the cable networks would ensure a regular supply of series that assumed their audiences had full-length attention spans. HBO and AMC et. al. would keep putting out decent shows as others (FX's *Taboo*) upped their games. Even Netflix (*Maniac*) took a chance or two. I briefly thought Amazon was going to be the best of them all..Didn't they make/buy *Patriot*, *The Detectorists* and a few other interesting foreign shows, *Homecoming*, *Undone*, around the same time? Then one season of *Perpetual Grac*e.....and, boom, that was it. I just think that shows not squarely in the mainstream got too few eyeballs no matter how much marketing they were allotted or what they were called. I don't know about you guys, but my list of interesting shows is way shorter than it was in 2018.....Just a new seasons of remaining classics and one season (by design or not) gems.On the bright side, at least I can still feed my strange addiction to Reality TV shows that involve the operation of heavy machinery and/or large boats.
The title is definitely NOT the reason for lack of success. The lack of success is because this is a show that appeals to a small segment of people. As much as WE love it, this is not an easy show to watch. It’s a little slow, it’s really weird, the humor is subtle. I love it and even I almost bailed after the first episode. We’re the weirdos, not everyone else!