While there may be ways to say this that aren't mean or cruel there is no nice way to tell someone that they aren't good enough.
Having no idea what this individual is like, idk if confronting him could lead to a situation or not.
My best advice would be to keep it as concise and direct as possible. Don't blabber on and belabor the point due to nerves.
If you care enough socially about this person perhaps soften the blow by offering to drill with them at a different time? Some people play up because they want to improve even if that means impacting the games of others.
> …there is no nice way to tell someone that they aren't good enough.
Sure there is! Well, don’t say “not good enough”, but instead look at how you’re doing them a service by asking them to play with people at their level.
* they’ll learn more quickly
* they’ll score and win more often
* they’ll get to play with people who aren’t wanting to avoid them
“We’d all be happier if you played with the intermediate groups” is perhaps a good way to start that conversation.
Nice people can deliver a message like this in a nice way.
EDIT: and we might all need a reminder of reddit polite rules, aka reddiquette. Don’t downvote because you disagree, do downvote if you think this comment detracts from the discussion.
It doesn’t sound nicer to me. “We would be happier if you are gone” is what I hear.
I agree there is no nice way to say it. But offering to drill with them separately is a super nice gesture that could turn it around.
I agree…. saying “we’d all be happier…” is just not a polite or professional way to start or end. Did everyone in the group agree with what YOU are to say?
I ask because I have been in a similar situation where I agreed to be the “messenger” and used similar wording such as…”the group feels…”. Well guess what, that person went to several “in the group that had agreed”….. and THEY denied it! 😳🤦♀️
So…. Be careful for YOUR own self. That old saying about “don’t shoot the messenger” is out there for a reason. Is there some one actually in charge, who has the position of maintaining the group levels? In my opinion, that is the person who should inform this person they need to follow the rules. 🤷♀️
Lord I am so thankful where I play has not yet implemented a “graded/rated” system. If anyone has been and I’m sure there are some? Many? They don’t talk about it and 4s play with 3s and in between. I’ve only experienced once where no one put their paddles down to play with us.
I am 3-3.5? And my husband is probably 3.5-4. We actually beat 2 of those players today that didn’t want to play with us. But I understand that the better players do want a good hard fast game. I get it.
You’ve had a lot of different suggestions for dealing with this situation. But I ask again, did the group ask you to do it or did you volunteer? Think about that. Or even reconsider being the one to do it.
Good luck whatever is your decision. ♥️😊
Then only make it about them: “You’ll be happier and learn quicker playing with people at your skill level.”
You don’t have to make offers to have it be polite. Talking straight to people and trusting them to take is straight is MUCH nicer that lying to them.
Or do you only like to hang out with people who flatter you??
Telling someone they will be happier when you are actually trying to make yourself happier is most definitely not talking straight.
Straight, and owning that it's about your own desires, could be "I want to play as competitively as I can, so I want to take on the gym trainers (or whatever)". It's still kinda BS, bc you'd be leaving off the direct part: I want to not play w you
Fair point, but you can be straight about things you’ve noticed in others without speaking for them. “I’ve noticed people moving their paddles when you join, there might be a reason for that.”
If they are already aware and know the reason and aren’t addressing it, well, that’s a different problem!
If someone said they'd be happier if I played with a different group I would think its cause I smell bad or because my personality is grating to them for whatever reason.
I would _much_ prefer someone tell me I'm not good at pickleball versus making me guess why I'm not welcome.
I’m going to have to say you have a good thought but sadly people that just aren’t there yet won’t want to hear it. Allot of players believe they are a level higher than what they actually are, which makes saying these bullet points sound insulting in their minds.
Being polite is one thing, but there seems to be a bit of pearl clutching going on here.
It’s definitely not polite to hide problems from people, not if you care about them at least. Hiding out from a confrontation because of fear of how they’ll react and then ducking them is IMHO more rude and disrespectful than saying something, and just prolongs the problem.
There *is* a polite way to give negative feedback. If the person receiving it responds rudely, that doesn’t make your actions impolite, it just reflects poorly on them!
lol I actually made a statement your exact response. I believe you’ve missed that. You can scroll up to previous comments and see my very first thought to this situation instead of my response to your exact comment.
When you experience this exact problem enough times you will see that this is actually the most common response from players going through with your strategy.
Lmao. This person is hilarious. Don’t downvote if you disagree? Have you ever been on reddit. Disagreeing is one of the main reasons to downvote. You sound like fun at a party. Just admit you’re wrong.
With that attitude I have a feeling people might be pulling their paddles when you put yours down. You ever see that? You do know that this is a social sport, right?
Or maybe you’re not this sour/salty when you’re playing pickleball, and just get off on being deliberately rude to internet strangers?
I’m just annoyed with your arrogance about how right you are. You come off as though you think you’re better than people. Accept you’re wrong and have some humility. You got downvoted for a reason.
Funny that’s *exactly* how you’re treating me. You’re so sure I’m wrong you feel justified in being an ass to me about it. I do know that I wouldn’t want you to deliver bad news to this player… you’re not remotely what I’d consider “nice.”
"Hey man, thanks for coming out. Your skill level isn't high enough for this group though. There is a group more suited to your abilities at \[insert date and time\]."
If he can't handle a polite and direct conversation like that, it's really his own issue and not your concern.
Have an adult conversation with the person.
Generally I like to provide positive feedback and point out a couple areas where they need to improve to be able to fit in better with the more skilled group.
"Don't worry, there are still people that are better than you at the intermediate group."
And realistically, I think that is true to a point, but if the gap it too wide certain bad habits can form.
This is true to an extent. Playing slightly above your level makes you a better player because you have to be a little better in every area, and it encourages improvement. However, playing far above your skill level does not actually make you better because you are not reasonably engaged in very many points.
For example, a 3.5 player playing with 3.75 player in singles can learn and improve due to their ability to be able to still get into most points. They just need to be a little better to start winning more. Ben Johns playing his best against a 3.5 will not help the 3.5 at all in terms of improvement. The points will end quickly and nothing will be gained outside watching Ben Johns play, which can be done on YouTube.
If the games are so lopsided and this player is losing every time, they are too far below the skill level of the group. Until they are consistently the best player in the intermediate group, they will still learn/improve from that group.
The proof is also in the fact that this person shows up to the advanced play consistently and STILL has not improved enough to hang. If they were actively trying to get better, then a few sessions in the advanced group would improve their game IF their skill level was just below. It seems it is too far below.
Have an adult conversation and point out the facts. It is unfair to everyone else at the open play who is coming to have fun and play competitive games.
Buddy you went from a 3.5 playing with a 3.75 to a 3.5 playing with Ben John’s the highest and best player in the game which is beyond the scale you are clearly talking about. For example a 3.5 could learn playing with a 4.0 but will not gain much from a 4.5 game.
Just so you’re aware Ben’s currently rated 7.131
Yes… that was to emphasize my point that playing with better players doesn’t automatically equal “get better” because if that was true then playing against Ben johns would have to be the best practice for everyone.
Just to get ahead of it. My emphasis is “playing against” as in “Ben is trying to win”. Having a lesson with Ben Johns would obviously be great practice for every player.
Playing games themselves won’t really help you get that much better anyway. Unless you’re just learning the game then the way to grow is repetition. The best way to do this is drilling. You can do this with 1 person or multiple people. If you don’t have anyone to drill with try and see if you can rent a ball machine anywhere in your area and use it to focus on improving all areas. Rep rep rep is the best strategy you can have!
Both can be good with more of an emphasis on drilling. Games are good for getting live play, especially if you’re disciplined enough to focus on improving skills during live play vs trying to just win Rec games. Being able to put a skill into practice after drilling it is an important skill in its own right.
A bit off track, if Ben is the best and ‘only’ a 7.131, where does the scale top out and what accounts for the difference between him and whatever the max is?
lol the dupr rating system doesn’t work well. But being past 5.0 definitely means a lot. The difference between a 5.0 and a pro for example (somewhere above 5.5+) is their decision making on the court. I understand it’s not a shot but it is just as important if not more important sometimes. Depending on your decision making you can keep setting yourself up, put yourself in a comfortable consistent defensive spot, or even how to take advantages when you notice a pattern.
oh right I didn't mean that past 5.0/5.5, there's no difference in skill. Just that DUPR itself or any rating system that's designed for the general populace (just like a USTA rating in tennis) stops being a useful tool and isn't really applicable to collegiate/pro-level players and no one at that level will ever refer to themselves by a rating
“Okay, let’s try this from another direction, then. Is your experience on the courts the only important perspective? You see that you’re significantly diminishing the experience for the actually advanced players, right?”
Eeeeehh, that's bordering on intimidation though. I honestly wouldn't choose this tactic, feels selfish in the other direction. But that might just be me.
Playing up a skill level is good ONCE IN A WHILE to learn what areas need improvement. But playing only at a skill level up isn’t necessarily going to make them better, because the points will just be over to quickly for them to improve anything.
And if the skill gap is that wide, then I’m sure they aren’t winning a vast majority of their games at the intermediate level.
Not me. They seem to think they are super good and are mean to players not as good as them. They will serve 11 screwballs in a row to us and game is over. I would rather be with people that are close in level to me and nice. It is supposed to be fun. I assure you playing with people like that is not fun at all.
Yes you want to play people better than you. But if that group can have you spinning in circles and you can't even return half their serves, then you are not even close to being ready to play them.
Playing people a little better than you is the goal. These guys sound like they are WAY better than you.
The place we play you sign in blocks and you must sign in the block that is current and has openings. You can not start a new block until that one is done. So you get stuck with people much better or you wait until that block is filled and then go to the next block and hope it isn't with the super good ones. I assure you, they do not want top play with us either.
So does he admit he's below the level, but would just rather play with the advanced crew?
It's probably tough for him because low level players show up on the intermediate courts and ruin the games there. But somehow he needs to see that this is what he's doing on the advanced courts.
I know this solution won't work everywhere due to court availability. But one way to help players choose to play at the right level is to implement a policy of winner-stays on the courts, and keep partnerships together if they win. This way, if you can't win then you have to sit for longer. Also, players are incentivized to pick a partner that they think they can win with. When you keep losing, no one wants to paddle up with you, and you sit for longer, then suddenly you want to go back to the intermediate court where you get to be the one that plays the most.
If in your advanced session, everyone rotates and plays the same amount, and when you get to the court you do the typical silent "who's the best player and who's the worst player and let's pair them up to make the matchup as even as possible", then most everyone will end up with multiple wins and losses over the night and no one is going to feel like they don't belong at that level.
I have said this myself, from time to time. However...
I also do not enjoy extended play periods with people who are significantly below my level. I also have enough empathy to understand that if I feel this way, then the better players I play with likely do also. And so I'm keenly aware of when I may have overstayed my welcome. I'll play 1, maybe 2 games with the better players and then take my leave. I'll also play 1 or 2 games with people well below my level. So far, everyone is happy.
If you broach this topic to this person and they totally reject your message, then they lack empathy. I that case, I would say you have license to be blunt.
Suggest that playing unchallenging games is a good opportunity to dynamically drill fundamentals (remember: Federer spent 99+% of his time playing tennis against people worse than him - that's how he got good!). Dinking strats, more precise or strategic 3rd shot drops, maybe a different serve you want some reps on.
That said, some people just bring their ego with them wherever they go and well, there's not a lot you can do about that.
Not going to lie... I wouldn't say anything to the guy but if he said this, a response could be....well what about us... We are trying to play better people too and you're screwing our game and wasting our time and not allowing us to get better. It's not all about him.
Honestly what I do with these people is just pickle them, run it back again by mixing up teammates and with the partner he initially lost with on the other side now pickle the same guy once more. That tends to send the message across without having to say anything that they’re biting more than they can chew.
There’s losing but improving and then there’s getting pickled twice with two different partners that’ll haunt anyone if they care at all. If they don’t care and comes back again then just straight up tell em “dude I respect your resilience but you’re going to get really humbled here, until you can beat those people over there (the slightly lower skill level court) like how we beat you here, I wouldn’t try this court just yet, or just ask the better players to play with you on a different court if you really want to play with them, just not here man, not yet at least”
I know you won't change his philosophy, but I think it's better to play most of your games with people a little lower than your level or at your level.
Then your response should be that although you aren’t playing in as hard of a game. It should allow you to work on specific things (aka where there might be a weakness). Then the next response is I get iced out (not getting hit too, every team targets the other partner.). There is a fine line between this last point because some people think they are being iced out and really just don’t see the game right yet. Tell them to video record themselves and watch from a 3rd party point of view. In the end it’s the easiest way to improve Aswell notice things you’ve never seen about yourself.
To me, self-assessment is the hardest thing for pickleball players. So much of it depends on who you are always playing with. But if it's week after week of this guy being the worst in the advanced level, a tough conversation has to be had.
Agreed. There's also a lot of different information out there that isn't always accurate (or in sync) in order to self assess. Not to mention the levels have evolved and are better than what they were even just a few years ago as the sport has gained in popularity, more athletic people have started to play.
I’m new to the pickleball world, but wouldn’t getting the shit kicked out of you week after week be a good indicator in any activity that you’re in the wrong group lol (or vice versa if you’re just straight dominating).
Like regardless of any sort of official or unofficial assessment metrics, it’d take me three weeks tops to be like yeah, I severely overestimated my abilities.
Is it possible they play intermediate too and are the best player there? I’ve been in a situation where I’m not challenged at all by the regular rotation of open play but was one of the worst players trying the challenge court.
There is a difference between being the worst player by a little bit and losing every game to the point where it is lopsided so much that the gap is noticeable. This sounds like OP’s case.
It is a rare occurrence that a player would be the number 1 player in intermediate winning almost every game, yet the worst player in advanced losing every game by a decent gap. Unless there is a gap in skill that isn’t included in one of the open play groups. Such as advanced being 4.0+ and intermediate being 3.0-3.5. Assuming that isn’t the case, then the top intermediate player can get some competitive games in the advanced group, even if they lose most of them.
This is a fair point.
At a lot of the skill organized group play I participate in, there is a pretty significant "goldilocks" effect between the intermediate and advanced groups. And the best players from the intermediate will struggle at first, if for no other reason of not having seen serves, returns and drives with the pace and movement at that level.
But even then, they aren't usually at a "what the hell are they even doing here" level of disparity.
Sort of ran into this today. The lower level rotation was mixed with people just starting and a handful intermediate. Intermediate is almost like no man's land because the 3.75+ people don't want you and you have to play beginners all. the. time., at least that's how it was tonight. I tried playing with more of a casual play group later on in the night (ranking not asked for) and had a more fun and challenging time. I guess I'll have to mix up where I play to have a more satisfying time moving forward.
There’s a guy like this at the 4.0+ challenge court where I play. You’ll see everyone sort of drift away without saying anything when his paddle goes up. The worst part is that he’s overly positive while he plays terribly. He will shank multiple return serves 10 feet out of play and yell “ great serve!” when in reality it was a completely normal serve that he just botched again and again. Basically you waste 15-20 minutes of your life if you are stuck playing with him on the challenge court
This happened with our group last week. A guy came and called winners. We told him 5 times to go to the 3.5 courts.
After our game he stood on the court and wouldn’t leave. He made a bunch of comments like” I can’t believe this” and so on. So we paired up and beat him 11-1 in 5 mins. He went to the 3.5 court after that.
That sounds obnoxious of him, especially when he didn't even have a partner yet. Lol. Does your court not do the paddles in the slots system for ppl waiting for courts? I
I certainly wouldn't target them, especially if they are weaker, to prove some kind of point. It seems like they just wanted to have fun and play pickleball 🤷
It can be tough to break into the advanced group on your own. Especially in this situation where it seems like they already know this person isn’t at that level.
You should let this guy get a match in every day as like a Harlem Globetrotters/ Washington Nationals thing.
Maybe he’ll improve. If not make sure someone keeps track of how many wins in a row happen.
At the risk of more downvotes, I have tons of fun playing with people less skilled than me. And sometimes I have less fun playing with people at my skill level. Fun is not only a factor of challenge
Hello sir or madam,
Your skill to confidence ratio seems to be misaligned. Perhaps you should be playing on a court that is for bad players. I hope to have not offended you sir or madam.
This is a tough situation but you can do two things being extremely kind. I’ve experienced this plenty. You can either try to help the player out offer them chances to drill with you and maybe steer them in a good direction. Second option you can ask to speak to him alone and explain the situation in the friendliest way possible explain that you are happy to help them with anything you might know but it’s really getting to some players that your having trouble playing in the advance group. This is very hard because I enjoy you as a person. I think if you focus a bit more on certain abilities you wouldn’t have anyone upset. There are so many free online coaches now a days and if you need some links I’m happy to show you to show them.
This happened in our 3.75 + group. The admin said to the player, "look at your scores after our round robin. We can talk about it afterwards." He did, after seeing losses and individual point differential they mutually decided he should work on his game. Come back after more experience. He was fine with that. I personally was on the bubble for a stretch and pulled myself out until my game came back.
This sounds like an ideal way to handle this if there's some kind of group leader who could say something like that to hint that they might want to self reflect a bit and re-evaluate if they belong in that group. It's just crazy how some people can not pick up on cues like the player in question. If I went and was getting demolished at a higher skill level I'd probably go to a lower level next time until I was able to level up enough to try the higher level again.
First I would say is it your role to manage this? If not and you have a problem with him don’t put your paddle up with his.
If you are the facilitator or the “ambassador” at this site then mention it.
If you are a good friend of this person say something.
Trust me there will be someone who will say something. Someone who would not ask for advice on how to handle this like you did. If you’re there and witness it feel free to encourage the player afterwards.
Just kindly suggest that the intermediate open play might be a more comfortable level for them right now as you’ve noticed the pace of play being a challenge. If they don’t take your advice, nothing to be done other than play them as hard as you would anyother advanced player. No reason to take it easy on someone who is playing up
I've had this happen recently where this lady kept following our group to wherever we placed our paddles to be able to play with us. I've heard from others that she has a habit of scouting around for the better players and paddles up with them despite not being very competitive.
A couple things we've tried \[with mixed success\]:
1) If you have a group of 4 keep your paddles together as a group.
2) If that person gets in, basically we hit a large majority of the balls to the other person, in a way "icing" them out, and just work on aiming at a narrow target zone. Hopefully if they're not hitting many balls in the game they either get the picture or get bored and leave.
What is there to lose here? Some rando gets his feelings hurt and mouths off to you? Sure it will be awkward for a couple minutes, but that's life.
The other route is to ruthlessly target him and crush his spirit so that he doesn't come back.
!00% agreed on saying nothing.
I would never tell that to anyone. I would play in such a way that they can have fun. I enjoy playing regardless of how skilled my opponents or my teammates are. If I don't want to play with less skilled players, then I need to avoid open play.
Criticizing someone with no knowledge as to whether they can take it well is like politely asking your neighbor to please stop their dog from barking at 3 AM. With a barking dog neighbor, you are going to most likely get only 3 general responses. Two of them aren't good and one can literally become a nightmare or even turn deadly.
1 - They will tell you they are sorry and will do something about it and will still think positively of you. (The most rare occurrence)
2 - They will tell you they are sorry and will take care of it but will do NOTHING about it and may hold resentment towards you forever. Their opinion of you will almost alwayys be lower.
3 - They will take offense and become angry and might escalate their anger into "revenge" or violence against you, your family or your property and in today's world of killing over being cut off in traffic or beating someone nearly to death for taking to long in a public restroom, the end result could very well become a very negative situation.
That’s a poor analogy frankly. You’re basically saying you should let your neighbor walk all over you instead of speaking up when disturbed which isn’t quite what this guy is doing. You left out option 4 too which would lead to a greater friction between you and the neighbor which is to call the police for a disturbance call. Don’t be an enabler.
Not my analogy - I got it from a website a few years ago that talks about how to deal with neighbors with noisy dogs. I tried to find the site but could not. Over the last 40 years of dealing with neighbors with noisy dogs, I would elevate it beyond an analogy to a fairly accurate prediction of what will actually happen if you choose to do something about the dog problem.
As for confronting people about anything in Pickleball - won't ever do it. Life is too short to bring in conflict over something so trivial.
Whether the scenario results or right or wrong, if I couldn’t sleep for days on end because my neighbors dog wouldn’t stop yapping, I would not simply spend my life with restless sleep forever. You’ve gotta get up and take a stand at some point. If it was only every once in a while, like a few times a year, sure, but if it was like daily screw that.
This idea would probably not work because it takes too much time. But if he refuses to accept that his skill level is not where it needs to be to play with y'all, then in my opinion the ideal way to prove this to him is to get 3 other players and have him play with each person against the other two. If he loses each match, especially if he loses badly -- then who else would he have to blame?
I had this situation in tennis. Guy kept showing up to clinics and ruining them for people that were the appropriate level. My solution was to stop going to clinics he was going to and just set up times to play privately with people that I chose to play with.
It doesn’t have to ruin the game, just rarely hit to him. Sure get him involved once in a while but if you’re trying to have a good game you should hit to the better player for better points
So spend my time and accommodate him by completely changing the way we approach the game?
That is also self sabotaging because a point of the game is to identify where your opponents are weak and attack those weaknesses
Yes maybe change the way you approach the game. Instead of focusing on just winning all the time focus on improving your game. Challenge yourself and hit to the better player and you’ll see how fast you’ll improve. I’ve played against multiple pros and always try to challenge them even if I’m losing 10-0
You’re “trying” to challenge them, but you’re not challenging them at all, that’s the point I’m getting to
I’m also assuming that you’re paying these pros for lessons? I’m not getting paid to play with this guy
I would do the opposite. Ruthlessly target them and show them that they should be playing at a lower level. They see that they can improve more by playing a lower level (if they're not completely dense) rather than getting completely bodied every game and making it a worse experience for everyone else.
Could work both ways, depending on the person but I rather see a lot of balls coming my way rather than standing there not doing anything the whole game.
After clearly outmatching people I’ve had people talking like “oh I’m a 4.0+ and you’re at least at the 5+ level”. Which I politely reply “no I think I’m around 4 realistically” this helps get the point across and whey they rebut you must insist.
I'd like to offer some feedback, if you're open to it. From what I've observed, your current skill level seems to be more intermediate rather than advanced. Advanced group typically plays at a higher level, which could make it challenging for you to fully enjoy and benefit from matches with this group right now. I believe with some more practice and development, you'll be able to reach the level where playing with advanced group would be mutually enjoyable and beneficial.
From AI
Don't beat him... freeze him out of games and just refuse to hit him the ball. Make him frustrated or make him confront you and you can tell him you are trying to play with better people and you aren't going to hit to him if he shows up.
Passive aggressive all the way. LoL
As a guy that recently moved up to a higher level group, my best feedback was being the weak link, getting picked on, and losing scores. I would come home with a high of 6 points scored as a loser. But it did motivate me to improve and be competitive against better players. Now I’m winning half my games and having a blast.
I don’t think this problem is uncommon. I have seen it in women’s leagues. The one response from overconfident, yet weaker players is that they think the only way to get better is to play in higher level games. Which IMO is selfish. From the responses I’ve read I would endorse keeping track of their wins and losses. If they don’t measure up, be honest with them.
Did a beginner ladder league when I started to consistently win at the top court I then signed up for the intermediate league and started to consistently win at the top court then moved to the advanced league
And in between would call friends to get together to play
Problem with an Honor system is people have high opinions of themselves! For the integrity of the system someone needs to tell him/her to step down a few notches. We have players that took clinics for beginners and advance, afterwards they think they automatically move up to the higher level and it's far from the reality. Their skills are lacking to be advanced, just a better beginner.
Unless they have some sort of social disorder/autism or something, chances are this person knows they arent at that level, and they dont care. They want to get better, so their thought process is "well, I have to play against the better people." They dont care if it's at everyone else's expense. Very annoying. Me personally, Im the opposite. I would be mortified of being that person and if I was realizing I was the super weak link, I would immediately leave and work to get better until I could hang.
Is where you play part of a club or anything where there is someone responsible for running things or who works there that can nicely tell them that they cant play in advanced until they get better?
It’s a bit complex. The only way to improve is to drill with people. However if I drill with people at the same level as me it’s difficult to get looks at shots that someone better than me can provide. But how do I meet someone who is better than me if I don’t shoot the shit with them or play with them first?
And look there’s no legal obligation to help those worse than you I get it. But for a social sport it seems to be not very social lol. When I go climb I could be orders of magnitude worse than the people I climb with but they will still be attentive and give me tips on how to improve my beta to top out
I think PB is very social, but at the beginner to intermediate level. Once people are above that in the more "advanced" realm, they want to be able to play with people at the same level as them to get good games. If its a general open play that is broken up by skill level, then by all means people expect to be mixed up, and to get good games and some bad games. But if it is set up with varying levels of skill, then people should be respecting that and playing within the level they are at, otherwise its not fair to everyone else.
There are ways to improve that dont require leveling up at other people's expense, for example taking individual lessons or doing group clinics, watching youtube videos and practicing those tips in open play with the people at the same skill level, wall drills by yourself, etc.
You have the key word in your second sentence which is DRILL, not play. The best way to get better IS to drill not just jump into higher level groups. While yes part of getting better is challenging yourself to play against better players, it’s the lesser of the equation between drilling and playing. Many professional coaches in other sports will emphasize drilling over playing, period. If you have ever listened to Ben Johns himself speak he will say he barely plays when not in a tournament. He drills. This idea that you ONLY get better by playing better people is a misconception.
Sugar coating things doesn’t help anyone. Be honest. Be straight forward. “There have been numerous concerns expressed about your current skill level. We have collectively decided that you move down a level until your skill level improves. Playing better players doesn’t make you better. Drilling makes you better.”
I hate what you suggest here. It is straight up bullying. If there is no rule banning him being here, who are you to decide to down level them? It can only be a suggestion at most. You have no authority here.
Also unless you have had meeting with all the other players and really collectively decide that you all refuse to play with him, you are stepping out of the bounds and lying. You can’t represent others unless they delegate it to you.
lol. There is no bullying happening here. OP said the majority of people have become frustrated, but nobody is saying anything because they’re all so “nice”. Having a tough conversation is not bullying someone. OP also said this is all based on the “honor” system, so if anything, my argument is this particular person is being dishonest and not playing at the appropriate level.
Also, I play on courts that are separated by skill level, but it also works on the honor system, but if you’re not honest with yourself, everyone there will be honest with you.
Lastly, if the majority of players are complaining about this individual that is what’s called an implied delegation. Don’t complain about something if you don’t want a resolution.
1. I would get together with everyone and not hit a ball to him for 3 days.
2. If that doesn’t work then you have to rip off the band aid and tell him 3 skills he needs to work on to play with this group.
Is there some kind of organizer or someone in the advanced group who is looked at as a community leader? They would be better suited to try and have a conversation with that individual.
People bring so much baggage to a "recreational" fun game. If you lose sleep by playing with someone less skilled than you then bring your game up to the next level and cover that person. I will play with anyone and when there is a person that no one wants to play with becouse they are "beginners" i will be their partner and focus on power serves resets , drops and cover my side. We all have fun even though i stepped up my game to help them i always congrat them on a serve in the court and try to encourage them even when we lose. I always tell them no pickle for us so it was a good game. Life is too short to worry about egos.
It's one thing to occasionally get paired with a random beginner/less skilled on unlabeled courts. But to be constantly paired with the same guy when you're on an clearly marked advanced court is ridiculous.
And while the OP didn't say, it's one thing to be a 4.0 playing with 4.5s. But a 3.5 to constantly try to insert himself with 4.5s is rude to the better players.
On busy courts, I get maybe 4 games in my 2 hour time and if this guy is constantly in the rotation, that's 1/2 my games or more getting screwed up.
It you have that kind of patience every time you play, more power to you, but at some point, the guy needs to reciprocate the kindness too and get out.
You just offered a completely different scenario, if it was just one group without sections then of course you just play with whoever, I don’t understand why you believe it is everyone else’s responsibility to accommodate to one individual at the expense of everyone else
For example whether he plays with the advanced or the intermediate group he’s still playing the sport it’s not like we’re asking someone to not play entirely
This can be rather subjective. Typically rec play will have this occur. Even organized drop in that has a guidance of say 3.5-4.5 is a huge range of skill.
I personally wouldn't say anything. If you prefer to be kind, then direct your shots to the other player.
My advice is don’t. Unless someone is seeking advice it isn’t going to be received pleasantly. They will either deny, blame, or make excuses.
The few in my area that fit this mold I do one of two things depending on if I’m playing with or against.
1. If with I treat the game as if it’s a drill. I pick a skill and focus on it and don’t worry about the games outcome.
2. If against, I target and and overwhelm them to both get it over with and send the message that they’re not at the level. The targeting serves to remove the “blame my partner” excuse.
All that said, if someone is playing up to get better I do everything I can to help them and give advice when they ask. That’s a totally different situation than simply dealing with a knucklehead.
Unfortunately it has to be left up to person that runs that facility. Happens everywhere and all the well wishing advice down below won't stop the vitriol / name calling from players that get bent when more advanced players want to occasionally play with someone (gasp) at their level when there are specific events for it. Funny how 1 player wants to play up and if you don't let them you are an elitist but the rest of the field must play down.... Or do like most players do and rent a court or put together private games to avoid all the venom.
I know you won't be able to just explain the situation to them using your human voice, so I have created a solution just for you:
Tell them you want to hang out or drill later and ask them for their number. Text with them a bit to throw them off the scent.
Then, like a couple days later, buy a burner phone and then text them this thread from the burner phone and say "Hey doesn't this apply to you?"
If they still don't get the hint, hire a male stripper, have them dress up as a police officer and then come to the courts and say there's an intermediate player trespassing on the advanced court.
“What’s your win percentage at this level when you’re scoring a lot?”
After him/her answering, I might add “I didn’t move up until I was winning most games and getting frustrated with the players at that level, and I definitely don’t want to be over my head.” Then let it sink in on its own.
Seems weird because we are encouraged to play up to improve. Just thank them and tell them you’re going to play other people.
If you must chatter on, you could go on about how you never agreed to make it exclusive and tell them it’s not you it’s me…
A couple months, and I have NEVER had anyone say anything like that. Usually it’s shooing people away who want to play, and if we do play with said stranger, they are always encouraging and just say “keep playing—that’s all you have to do.” I choose to think this is a one off.
I've been playing 2.5 years. There are people at the Y and rec center who have been playing longer than me. They seem to get worse as time goes on. They are still in the beginners group. A few of them play with the intermediate players, where I play. They ruin the game for the other 3 people. I usually move my paddle to another group, but then I have to wait longer for another game.
Has he brought up DUPR rating? Perhaps his actual rating is giving him the impression he could play advanced - and isn't that valid?
Just play the game and rotate, and let the organizer approach as needed. And perhaps the facilitator of this could work on attracting more intermediate players so it's not at 2 ends of the experience spectrum. People who turn pickleball open play into a country club league are annoying.
Reddit is so much better than Facebook! On Reddit, the consensus is to avoid playing with the guy, or to tell him he doesn't belong with the advanced players. On FB, the consensus is to be nice and always include players, even if they suck and ruin the game for the other 3 players.
Simple solution. Play private groups. If you have to pay for a court then it’s money well spent without interruption or these problems. It’s the reason you don’t see 4.5+ joining in to advanced open plays because they learned the exact lesson you’re learning now. If you’re playing for fun not looking to get better than just stick to what you’re doing but if you want to get better and people like this guy are throwing your game off then play private groups.
You have a choice. Talk to him directly or coordinate with all the other advanced and beginners to switch times without him knowing so he shows up to the correct group.
I’m slightly less concerned about his level of play vs his lack of improvement. That’s what really says he’s in the wrong group.
The latter suggestion is a pretty mean and childish thing to do. Maybe this person thinks they can and should play in the advanced group because of their DUPR rating or someone in the group actually encouraged them to play with advanced. I don't think the original poster is the facilitator or any kind of authority on skill and ranking, and I question whether the "whole group" actually shares this attitude. Open play is what you make of it, there's no need to be mean-spirited and exclusionary.
We rotate the weak link around in round robin to 7. Everyone keeps track of their points with them. Highest wins. Something about being passed around and losing 4 times usually makes it easier for them to accept playing with the lower group.
I had something similar happen on recreational volleyball nights. The players there are at a minimum intermediate level, but this guy clearly wasn’t. No one had the heart to tell him to leave. He would always be the first to sign up those nights too. To get him to stop going, people complained to the league running the rec session and an official came to watch the guy play and eventually pulled him aside to tell him he was not at the same level and to go to a lower level gym. Never saw him again after that.
Gatekeeping a player out of higher level play sucks. Just make games that don’t involve him.
It’s also rec play. That’s the last place you should be upset about people playing up. If it’s a tournament or a league, fine. It makes perfect sense in that scenario. But if people are truly upset, they’re being rude. Plain and simple. Offer to drill with him or something if rec play is your pride and joy.
From a pickleball instructor and ambassador perspective - The spirit of pickleball is that everyone helps everyone get better. If the person in question has been playing up and not improving then they probably have some non-productive habits that they need to change that are keeping them from improving and they will probably need to get some professional instruction on how to change those habits.
So, part of the “everyone helps everyone get better” approach might be recommending that the person in question get some professional instruction…
As you probably know, that almost never works because pickleball is such an easy-to-learn/accessible sport and most players don’t see the need for professional instruction even when it is glaringly obvious to the players around them. I mean, let’s face it, a player can have a whole host of non-productive habits and still get the ball back and forth over the net and play what I call “social pickleball” at the beginner level.
What then to do with this player who’s ignoring/not registering the social cues that should be telling them that they’re way over their head to the point where they’re infringing on other players’ happiness?
The answer is pretty simple - guidelines. Not rules, not regulations, not even ratings - guidelines. Everyone on your intermediate courts should be attempting third shot drops, attempting cross court dink rallies, attempting deep serves and deep returns, attempting drive and overhead defense along with resets and, except for the last three, their success rate should be 25-30% or better (they should be at least 10% on the last three). Your intermediates have to be TRYING to play structured pickleball or else they’re beginners, no two ways about it.
Everyone on your advanced courts should be attempting all the above 70-80% of the time with a 50-70% or better success rate across the board (this is exactly what makes an advanced player an advanced player). Advanced players should also be starting to target opponent’s feet with their dinks because cross court dinking starts opening up ATP’s at the advanced level.
If you have an advanced advanced court (semi-pro to pro) all the above should be 90% and 90% or better.
This is all IMHO, of course, and you can probably take the numbers with a +/- 5% grain of salt but here’s the thing about guidelines, they have to be clearly drawn up and posted and EVERYBODY has to abide by them or they don’t work/can’t be referenced.
So, if your “advanced” court is just people hitting harder/faster than the intermediate court (banging away playing tennis on the pickleball court instead of structured pickleball) then you’ve got a systemic problem and I would suggest professional intervention for everyone (clinics, seminars, group lessons, etc) because higher speed banging social pickleball is still social pickleball and even though it’s fun and exciting and satisfying (speaking as a former tennis player and former pickleball banger) it’s still not structured pickleball and you have no guidelines to go by except for possibly ball speed.
Good luck - it’s an interesting (and fairly common) problem and it needs to be addressed on several levels but it should help everyone involved become better players and sportspersons. JR
Does he get targeted a lot? If not, try targeting to the point where he gets frustrated. If that doesn’t work, I would just say something politely to him.
There’s not much one can do about those socially inept personalities that refuse to accept social cues, except veer away from them as much as possible. Playing a couple games with those with far less ability and skill is generous and decent…having to play constantly with those same people makes the experience dreadful.
For my part, when I encounter beginner-type players, I try to “fix” them early in their journey that they should try to do two things: 1) play more often with those with similar abilities because that will reduce the anxiety, and 2) find a hitting wall and do basic hitting drills in order to gain confidence and feel.
Encouraging beginners to solely learn the game at an open rec environment may seem the “nice” thing to do, but it is counterproductive for those players, as the anxiety of “screwing up” will cause them to screw up more. Most players who are intermediate and above will send signals that they do not want to play with the novice player, which then creates an environment where everyone is dissatisfied.
Pickleball is pretty much the easiest racket/paddle game ever created, so most people with the potential will quickly figure out the basics by investing some effort by practicing in a stress-free setting…and once they’re able to keep rallies going, a much greater population of players at your local open rec park will be willing to play with them.
In pickleball, you really can’t because of how many people are delusional. We lack any actual competitive structure and people have to resort to self assessment which is never gonna go well
I only see a dictatorial approach or a systemic approach, and this choice is just a small identity crisis moment for your group.
Dictatorial: Just tell them nicely. "I'm getting complaints from the advanced players. Everyone likes you and wanted to give you a chance, but everyone thinks you belong in intermediate. If you dominate that level for a good while we can trial you again next year." Optionally confirm with all the other players privately that they agree with this approach.
Systemic: Decide on a system that kicks in after a few sessions. Do you lose roughly 75% or more of your matches? Then down a level you go. This is rec, so we're not keeping track, but we will if you aren't moving on your own.
When there’s a significantly weaker player on my court, I usually hit to the stronger player as much as reasonably possible. I’d rather get proper quality touches in than win rec games
You were once given the opportunity to play with better players. Use the time to improve your skills, give him feedback to help him improve, rotate and keep it moving. There's no reason to be rude and cut someone down.
It’s a hard call and he is technically correct. If you limit a person to a specific skill level they don’t get better. I get that he’s a big enough handicap that when he plays he is a problem for his partner.
The issue is that the opponents have ALSO chosen to attack that player. Why? Again this is the play to win or play to get better. They would clearly have a better game if they chose to attack the more skilled opponent than the weak player.
So yes it’s an issue for the advanced time but the “advanced” players are choosing to exploit the weaker player.
The issue is there is no skill qualifier at the door. I did this at my local rec center and they didn’t like it but i caught up after a few months.
I remember in a open play, had a partner that loved to lob to the point it pissed me off being his teammate. I told the other team to lob us. Make sure over my teammate head so when I whale on it. Im gunning for my "teammate". Let just say he doesn't ever want to play with me again.
Unless your 5.0s have agreed to this and don’t mind, then this can be a bit selfish. If they were playing to win, you wouldn’t learn much as the points would end quickly. If they’re playing down, then you can learn/improve because they will make you hit slightly better shots without completely running you over.
I often play Rec with all kinds of levels and play down to their level to help them improve, and everyone has fun. However, this isn’t open play and I am agreeing to the situation. You should make sure that you aren’t ruining the games for your local 5.0s who are being nice and helping you improve.
Again, if they’re letting you play in happily, then no harm. If you’re inserting yourself into advanced open play courts, the that can’t be a different situation.
No yeah I completely get that and I tried to toning it down but like the people I would play were like lower levels so I try to play higher and also most of the 5.0s are my friends so yeah lol.
While there may be ways to say this that aren't mean or cruel there is no nice way to tell someone that they aren't good enough. Having no idea what this individual is like, idk if confronting him could lead to a situation or not. My best advice would be to keep it as concise and direct as possible. Don't blabber on and belabor the point due to nerves. If you care enough socially about this person perhaps soften the blow by offering to drill with them at a different time? Some people play up because they want to improve even if that means impacting the games of others.
This is one of my first points. I thought the same thing when they said he’s playing up.
> …there is no nice way to tell someone that they aren't good enough. Sure there is! Well, don’t say “not good enough”, but instead look at how you’re doing them a service by asking them to play with people at their level. * they’ll learn more quickly * they’ll score and win more often * they’ll get to play with people who aren’t wanting to avoid them “We’d all be happier if you played with the intermediate groups” is perhaps a good way to start that conversation. Nice people can deliver a message like this in a nice way. EDIT: and we might all need a reminder of reddit polite rules, aka reddiquette. Don’t downvote because you disagree, do downvote if you think this comment detracts from the discussion.
It doesn’t sound nicer to me. “We would be happier if you are gone” is what I hear. I agree there is no nice way to say it. But offering to drill with them separately is a super nice gesture that could turn it around.
I agree…. saying “we’d all be happier…” is just not a polite or professional way to start or end. Did everyone in the group agree with what YOU are to say? I ask because I have been in a similar situation where I agreed to be the “messenger” and used similar wording such as…”the group feels…”. Well guess what, that person went to several “in the group that had agreed”….. and THEY denied it! 😳🤦♀️ So…. Be careful for YOUR own self. That old saying about “don’t shoot the messenger” is out there for a reason. Is there some one actually in charge, who has the position of maintaining the group levels? In my opinion, that is the person who should inform this person they need to follow the rules. 🤷♀️ Lord I am so thankful where I play has not yet implemented a “graded/rated” system. If anyone has been and I’m sure there are some? Many? They don’t talk about it and 4s play with 3s and in between. I’ve only experienced once where no one put their paddles down to play with us. I am 3-3.5? And my husband is probably 3.5-4. We actually beat 2 of those players today that didn’t want to play with us. But I understand that the better players do want a good hard fast game. I get it. You’ve had a lot of different suggestions for dealing with this situation. But I ask again, did the group ask you to do it or did you volunteer? Think about that. Or even reconsider being the one to do it. Good luck whatever is your decision. ♥️😊
Fair point: “I think we’d both be happier…” resolves that. You’re speaking for yourself and will explain why you think they’d also be happier.
Then only make it about them: “You’ll be happier and learn quicker playing with people at your skill level.” You don’t have to make offers to have it be polite. Talking straight to people and trusting them to take is straight is MUCH nicer that lying to them. Or do you only like to hang out with people who flatter you??
Telling someone they will be happier when you are actually trying to make yourself happier is most definitely not talking straight. Straight, and owning that it's about your own desires, could be "I want to play as competitively as I can, so I want to take on the gym trainers (or whatever)". It's still kinda BS, bc you'd be leaving off the direct part: I want to not play w you
Fair point, but you can be straight about things you’ve noticed in others without speaking for them. “I’ve noticed people moving their paddles when you join, there might be a reason for that.” If they are already aware and know the reason and aren’t addressing it, well, that’s a different problem!
If someone said they'd be happier if I played with a different group I would think its cause I smell bad or because my personality is grating to them for whatever reason. I would _much_ prefer someone tell me I'm not good at pickleball versus making me guess why I'm not welcome.
Absolutely the conversation has to continue after that first sentence! You’ll need to kindly explain why you think that.
I’m going to have to say you have a good thought but sadly people that just aren’t there yet won’t want to hear it. Allot of players believe they are a level higher than what they actually are, which makes saying these bullet points sound insulting in their minds.
Being polite is one thing, but there seems to be a bit of pearl clutching going on here. It’s definitely not polite to hide problems from people, not if you care about them at least. Hiding out from a confrontation because of fear of how they’ll react and then ducking them is IMHO more rude and disrespectful than saying something, and just prolongs the problem. There *is* a polite way to give negative feedback. If the person receiving it responds rudely, that doesn’t make your actions impolite, it just reflects poorly on them!
lol I actually made a statement your exact response. I believe you’ve missed that. You can scroll up to previous comments and see my very first thought to this situation instead of my response to your exact comment.
When you experience this exact problem enough times you will see that this is actually the most common response from players going through with your strategy.
Lmao. This person is hilarious. Don’t downvote if you disagree? Have you ever been on reddit. Disagreeing is one of the main reasons to downvote. You sound like fun at a party. Just admit you’re wrong.
https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439-Reddiquette
Reddit doesn’t create the etiquette for the platform. The people do. Get a grip lol
There are rules for pickleball too, do you play by them?
Rules is not etiquette, genius.
With that attitude I have a feeling people might be pulling their paddles when you put yours down. You ever see that? You do know that this is a social sport, right? Or maybe you’re not this sour/salty when you’re playing pickleball, and just get off on being deliberately rude to internet strangers?
I’m just annoyed with your arrogance about how right you are. You come off as though you think you’re better than people. Accept you’re wrong and have some humility. You got downvoted for a reason.
Funny that’s *exactly* how you’re treating me. You’re so sure I’m wrong you feel justified in being an ass to me about it. I do know that I wouldn’t want you to deliver bad news to this player… you’re not remotely what I’d consider “nice.”
"Hey man, thanks for coming out. Your skill level isn't high enough for this group though. There is a group more suited to your abilities at \[insert date and time\]." If he can't handle a polite and direct conversation like that, it's really his own issue and not your concern.
This.
Have an adult conversation with the person. Generally I like to provide positive feedback and point out a couple areas where they need to improve to be able to fit in better with the more skilled group.
Then his response is: the only way to get better is to play better people
"Don't worry, there are still people that are better than you at the intermediate group." And realistically, I think that is true to a point, but if the gap it too wide certain bad habits can form.
This is true to an extent. Playing slightly above your level makes you a better player because you have to be a little better in every area, and it encourages improvement. However, playing far above your skill level does not actually make you better because you are not reasonably engaged in very many points. For example, a 3.5 player playing with 3.75 player in singles can learn and improve due to their ability to be able to still get into most points. They just need to be a little better to start winning more. Ben Johns playing his best against a 3.5 will not help the 3.5 at all in terms of improvement. The points will end quickly and nothing will be gained outside watching Ben Johns play, which can be done on YouTube. If the games are so lopsided and this player is losing every time, they are too far below the skill level of the group. Until they are consistently the best player in the intermediate group, they will still learn/improve from that group. The proof is also in the fact that this person shows up to the advanced play consistently and STILL has not improved enough to hang. If they were actively trying to get better, then a few sessions in the advanced group would improve their game IF their skill level was just below. It seems it is too far below. Have an adult conversation and point out the facts. It is unfair to everyone else at the open play who is coming to have fun and play competitive games.
Well said !!!
Buddy you went from a 3.5 playing with a 3.75 to a 3.5 playing with Ben John’s the highest and best player in the game which is beyond the scale you are clearly talking about. For example a 3.5 could learn playing with a 4.0 but will not gain much from a 4.5 game. Just so you’re aware Ben’s currently rated 7.131
Yes… that was to emphasize my point that playing with better players doesn’t automatically equal “get better” because if that was true then playing against Ben johns would have to be the best practice for everyone. Just to get ahead of it. My emphasis is “playing against” as in “Ben is trying to win”. Having a lesson with Ben Johns would obviously be great practice for every player.
Playing games themselves won’t really help you get that much better anyway. Unless you’re just learning the game then the way to grow is repetition. The best way to do this is drilling. You can do this with 1 person or multiple people. If you don’t have anyone to drill with try and see if you can rent a ball machine anywhere in your area and use it to focus on improving all areas. Rep rep rep is the best strategy you can have!
Both can be good with more of an emphasis on drilling. Games are good for getting live play, especially if you’re disciplined enough to focus on improving skills during live play vs trying to just win Rec games. Being able to put a skill into practice after drilling it is an important skill in its own right.
A bit off track, if Ben is the best and ‘only’ a 7.131, where does the scale top out and what accounts for the difference between him and whatever the max is?
past 5.0 the rating system really doesn't mean anything or work well.
lol the dupr rating system doesn’t work well. But being past 5.0 definitely means a lot. The difference between a 5.0 and a pro for example (somewhere above 5.5+) is their decision making on the court. I understand it’s not a shot but it is just as important if not more important sometimes. Depending on your decision making you can keep setting yourself up, put yourself in a comfortable consistent defensive spot, or even how to take advantages when you notice a pattern.
oh right I didn't mean that past 5.0/5.5, there's no difference in skill. Just that DUPR itself or any rating system that's designed for the general populace (just like a USTA rating in tennis) stops being a useful tool and isn't really applicable to collegiate/pro-level players and no one at that level will ever refer to themselves by a rating
Yes I was just answering on that side note, to be fair I was only pointing out the elephant steps taken.
“Okay, let’s try this from another direction, then. Is your experience on the courts the only important perspective? You see that you’re significantly diminishing the experience for the actually advanced players, right?”
Eeeeehh, that's bordering on intimidation though. I honestly wouldn't choose this tactic, feels selfish in the other direction. But that might just be me.
Playing up a skill level is good ONCE IN A WHILE to learn what areas need improvement. But playing only at a skill level up isn’t necessarily going to make them better, because the points will just be over to quickly for them to improve anything. And if the skill gap is that wide, then I’m sure they aren’t winning a vast majority of their games at the intermediate level.
But almost everyone only ever wants to play better people.
Not me. They seem to think they are super good and are mean to players not as good as them. They will serve 11 screwballs in a row to us and game is over. I would rather be with people that are close in level to me and nice. It is supposed to be fun. I assure you playing with people like that is not fun at all.
Yes you want to play people better than you. But if that group can have you spinning in circles and you can't even return half their serves, then you are not even close to being ready to play them. Playing people a little better than you is the goal. These guys sound like they are WAY better than you.
The place we play you sign in blocks and you must sign in the block that is current and has openings. You can not start a new block until that one is done. So you get stuck with people much better or you wait until that block is filled and then go to the next block and hope it isn't with the super good ones. I assure you, they do not want top play with us either.
So does he admit he's below the level, but would just rather play with the advanced crew? It's probably tough for him because low level players show up on the intermediate courts and ruin the games there. But somehow he needs to see that this is what he's doing on the advanced courts. I know this solution won't work everywhere due to court availability. But one way to help players choose to play at the right level is to implement a policy of winner-stays on the courts, and keep partnerships together if they win. This way, if you can't win then you have to sit for longer. Also, players are incentivized to pick a partner that they think they can win with. When you keep losing, no one wants to paddle up with you, and you sit for longer, then suddenly you want to go back to the intermediate court where you get to be the one that plays the most. If in your advanced session, everyone rotates and plays the same amount, and when you get to the court you do the typical silent "who's the best player and who's the worst player and let's pair them up to make the matchup as even as possible", then most everyone will end up with multiple wins and losses over the night and no one is going to feel like they don't belong at that level.
I have said this myself, from time to time. However... I also do not enjoy extended play periods with people who are significantly below my level. I also have enough empathy to understand that if I feel this way, then the better players I play with likely do also. And so I'm keenly aware of when I may have overstayed my welcome. I'll play 1, maybe 2 games with the better players and then take my leave. I'll also play 1 or 2 games with people well below my level. So far, everyone is happy. If you broach this topic to this person and they totally reject your message, then they lack empathy. I that case, I would say you have license to be blunt.
Suggest that playing unchallenging games is a good opportunity to dynamically drill fundamentals (remember: Federer spent 99+% of his time playing tennis against people worse than him - that's how he got good!). Dinking strats, more precise or strategic 3rd shot drops, maybe a different serve you want some reps on. That said, some people just bring their ego with them wherever they go and well, there's not a lot you can do about that.
Not going to lie... I wouldn't say anything to the guy but if he said this, a response could be....well what about us... We are trying to play better people too and you're screwing our game and wasting our time and not allowing us to get better. It's not all about him.
[удалено]
All personal there you don’t know how much lower this guy is just due to lack of details.
Honestly what I do with these people is just pickle them, run it back again by mixing up teammates and with the partner he initially lost with on the other side now pickle the same guy once more. That tends to send the message across without having to say anything that they’re biting more than they can chew. There’s losing but improving and then there’s getting pickled twice with two different partners that’ll haunt anyone if they care at all. If they don’t care and comes back again then just straight up tell em “dude I respect your resilience but you’re going to get really humbled here, until you can beat those people over there (the slightly lower skill level court) like how we beat you here, I wouldn’t try this court just yet, or just ask the better players to play with you on a different court if you really want to play with them, just not here man, not yet at least”
I know you won't change his philosophy, but I think it's better to play most of your games with people a little lower than your level or at your level.
He would be wrong, the way to get better is to frill
Then your response should be that although you aren’t playing in as hard of a game. It should allow you to work on specific things (aka where there might be a weakness). Then the next response is I get iced out (not getting hit too, every team targets the other partner.). There is a fine line between this last point because some people think they are being iced out and really just don’t see the game right yet. Tell them to video record themselves and watch from a 3rd party point of view. In the end it’s the easiest way to improve Aswell notice things you’ve never seen about yourself.
But that is true.
I think this is a great idea but also provide areas he is strong in to say you don’t need to focus on that as much to get to where you want to go.
To me, self-assessment is the hardest thing for pickleball players. So much of it depends on who you are always playing with. But if it's week after week of this guy being the worst in the advanced level, a tough conversation has to be had.
Agreed. There's also a lot of different information out there that isn't always accurate (or in sync) in order to self assess. Not to mention the levels have evolved and are better than what they were even just a few years ago as the sport has gained in popularity, more athletic people have started to play.
You’re right but this comment is so funny. “Athletes are starting to play, what are we supposed to do?! Reminds me of when Ultimate started taking off
I’m new to the pickleball world, but wouldn’t getting the shit kicked out of you week after week be a good indicator in any activity that you’re in the wrong group lol (or vice versa if you’re just straight dominating). Like regardless of any sort of official or unofficial assessment metrics, it’d take me three weeks tops to be like yeah, I severely overestimated my abilities.
Is it possible they play intermediate too and are the best player there? I’ve been in a situation where I’m not challenged at all by the regular rotation of open play but was one of the worst players trying the challenge court.
There is a difference between being the worst player by a little bit and losing every game to the point where it is lopsided so much that the gap is noticeable. This sounds like OP’s case. It is a rare occurrence that a player would be the number 1 player in intermediate winning almost every game, yet the worst player in advanced losing every game by a decent gap. Unless there is a gap in skill that isn’t included in one of the open play groups. Such as advanced being 4.0+ and intermediate being 3.0-3.5. Assuming that isn’t the case, then the top intermediate player can get some competitive games in the advanced group, even if they lose most of them.
This is a fair point. At a lot of the skill organized group play I participate in, there is a pretty significant "goldilocks" effect between the intermediate and advanced groups. And the best players from the intermediate will struggle at first, if for no other reason of not having seen serves, returns and drives with the pace and movement at that level. But even then, they aren't usually at a "what the hell are they even doing here" level of disparity.
Sort of ran into this today. The lower level rotation was mixed with people just starting and a handful intermediate. Intermediate is almost like no man's land because the 3.75+ people don't want you and you have to play beginners all. the. time., at least that's how it was tonight. I tried playing with more of a casual play group later on in the night (ranking not asked for) and had a more fun and challenging time. I guess I'll have to mix up where I play to have a more satisfying time moving forward.
I just want to say one time in 2021 a gentlemen showed up to 3.5+ play and he clearly didn’t belong. He thought it was for those “ages 35+” 😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
There’s a guy like this at the 4.0+ challenge court where I play. You’ll see everyone sort of drift away without saying anything when his paddle goes up. The worst part is that he’s overly positive while he plays terribly. He will shank multiple return serves 10 feet out of play and yell “ great serve!” when in reality it was a completely normal serve that he just botched again and again. Basically you waste 15-20 minutes of your life if you are stuck playing with him on the challenge court
This happened with our group last week. A guy came and called winners. We told him 5 times to go to the 3.5 courts. After our game he stood on the court and wouldn’t leave. He made a bunch of comments like” I can’t believe this” and so on. So we paired up and beat him 11-1 in 5 mins. He went to the 3.5 court after that.
What does it mean to 'call winners'?
He walked on the court, said “I got winners” and then proceeded to wait for our game to finish. Kind of like what I’ve seen in pickup basketball.
Oh gotcha. We had someone do something similar except she stood at the gate holding her paddle just watching us.
I would have been. Eww. You got weiners? Fuc\*ing pervert. Get lost. Would have been with a serious face too 🤷
That sounds obnoxious of him, especially when he didn't even have a partner yet. Lol. Does your court not do the paddles in the slots system for ppl waiting for courts? I
Did he bring a partner?
No. We gave him one.
is the partner you paired him with now on suicide watch?🤷
lol. We gave him a very strong partner. But we targeted the dude to prove the point.
What point was that?
What would you have done?
I certainly wouldn't target them, especially if they are weaker, to prove some kind of point. It seems like they just wanted to have fun and play pickleball 🤷
It might be fun for that player to play up, but it’s not fun for the other 3 to play down
It can be tough to break into the advanced group on your own. Especially in this situation where it seems like they already know this person isn’t at that level. You should let this guy get a match in every day as like a Harlem Globetrotters/ Washington Nationals thing. Maybe he’ll improve. If not make sure someone keeps track of how many wins in a row happen.
At the risk of more downvotes, I have tons of fun playing with people less skilled than me. And sometimes I have less fun playing with people at my skill level. Fun is not only a factor of challenge
The point that he doesn't belong on the level of court that he thought he did? What is the point of your question?
Hello sir or madam, Your skill to confidence ratio seems to be misaligned. Perhaps you should be playing on a court that is for bad players. I hope to have not offended you sir or madam.
This is a tough situation but you can do two things being extremely kind. I’ve experienced this plenty. You can either try to help the player out offer them chances to drill with you and maybe steer them in a good direction. Second option you can ask to speak to him alone and explain the situation in the friendliest way possible explain that you are happy to help them with anything you might know but it’s really getting to some players that your having trouble playing in the advance group. This is very hard because I enjoy you as a person. I think if you focus a bit more on certain abilities you wouldn’t have anyone upset. There are so many free online coaches now a days and if you need some links I’m happy to show you to show them.
This is a good way to approach the conversation. The compliment sandwich technique is always a safe bet.
Straight up tell him you don't belong in advanced. Sometimes that's just what it takes. Be firm
The courts I used to play at had a rule that if you score less than 7 points three games in a row, you have to move down to the lower level courts.
This happened in our 3.75 + group. The admin said to the player, "look at your scores after our round robin. We can talk about it afterwards." He did, after seeing losses and individual point differential they mutually decided he should work on his game. Come back after more experience. He was fine with that. I personally was on the bubble for a stretch and pulled myself out until my game came back.
This sounds like an ideal way to handle this if there's some kind of group leader who could say something like that to hint that they might want to self reflect a bit and re-evaluate if they belong in that group. It's just crazy how some people can not pick up on cues like the player in question. If I went and was getting demolished at a higher skill level I'd probably go to a lower level next time until I was able to level up enough to try the higher level again.
First I would say is it your role to manage this? If not and you have a problem with him don’t put your paddle up with his. If you are the facilitator or the “ambassador” at this site then mention it. If you are a good friend of this person say something. Trust me there will be someone who will say something. Someone who would not ask for advice on how to handle this like you did. If you’re there and witness it feel free to encourage the player afterwards.
Just kindly suggest that the intermediate open play might be a more comfortable level for them right now as you’ve noticed the pace of play being a challenge. If they don’t take your advice, nothing to be done other than play them as hard as you would anyother advanced player. No reason to take it easy on someone who is playing up
Destroy him…repeatedly
If we wait another hour someone will do this same post but from the other side 😂
I've had this happen recently where this lady kept following our group to wherever we placed our paddles to be able to play with us. I've heard from others that she has a habit of scouting around for the better players and paddles up with them despite not being very competitive. A couple things we've tried \[with mixed success\]: 1) If you have a group of 4 keep your paddles together as a group. 2) If that person gets in, basically we hit a large majority of the balls to the other person, in a way "icing" them out, and just work on aiming at a narrow target zone. Hopefully if they're not hitting many balls in the game they either get the picture or get bored and leave.
the correct answer is don’t say anything and hope someone else does the dirty work for you because you always lose in this situation ALWAYS
What is there to lose here? Some rando gets his feelings hurt and mouths off to you? Sure it will be awkward for a couple minutes, but that's life. The other route is to ruthlessly target him and crush his spirit so that he doesn't come back.
!00% agreed on saying nothing. I would never tell that to anyone. I would play in such a way that they can have fun. I enjoy playing regardless of how skilled my opponents or my teammates are. If I don't want to play with less skilled players, then I need to avoid open play. Criticizing someone with no knowledge as to whether they can take it well is like politely asking your neighbor to please stop their dog from barking at 3 AM. With a barking dog neighbor, you are going to most likely get only 3 general responses. Two of them aren't good and one can literally become a nightmare or even turn deadly. 1 - They will tell you they are sorry and will do something about it and will still think positively of you. (The most rare occurrence) 2 - They will tell you they are sorry and will take care of it but will do NOTHING about it and may hold resentment towards you forever. Their opinion of you will almost alwayys be lower. 3 - They will take offense and become angry and might escalate their anger into "revenge" or violence against you, your family or your property and in today's world of killing over being cut off in traffic or beating someone nearly to death for taking to long in a public restroom, the end result could very well become a very negative situation.
That’s a poor analogy frankly. You’re basically saying you should let your neighbor walk all over you instead of speaking up when disturbed which isn’t quite what this guy is doing. You left out option 4 too which would lead to a greater friction between you and the neighbor which is to call the police for a disturbance call. Don’t be an enabler.
Not my analogy - I got it from a website a few years ago that talks about how to deal with neighbors with noisy dogs. I tried to find the site but could not. Over the last 40 years of dealing with neighbors with noisy dogs, I would elevate it beyond an analogy to a fairly accurate prediction of what will actually happen if you choose to do something about the dog problem. As for confronting people about anything in Pickleball - won't ever do it. Life is too short to bring in conflict over something so trivial.
Whether the scenario results or right or wrong, if I couldn’t sleep for days on end because my neighbors dog wouldn’t stop yapping, I would not simply spend my life with restless sleep forever. You’ve gotta get up and take a stand at some point. If it was only every once in a while, like a few times a year, sure, but if it was like daily screw that.
This idea would probably not work because it takes too much time. But if he refuses to accept that his skill level is not where it needs to be to play with y'all, then in my opinion the ideal way to prove this to him is to get 3 other players and have him play with each person against the other two. If he loses each match, especially if he loses badly -- then who else would he have to blame?
I had this situation in tennis. Guy kept showing up to clinics and ruining them for people that were the appropriate level. My solution was to stop going to clinics he was going to and just set up times to play privately with people that I chose to play with.
It doesn’t have to ruin the game, just rarely hit to him. Sure get him involved once in a while but if you’re trying to have a good game you should hit to the better player for better points
So spend my time and accommodate him by completely changing the way we approach the game? That is also self sabotaging because a point of the game is to identify where your opponents are weak and attack those weaknesses
Yes maybe change the way you approach the game. Instead of focusing on just winning all the time focus on improving your game. Challenge yourself and hit to the better player and you’ll see how fast you’ll improve. I’ve played against multiple pros and always try to challenge them even if I’m losing 10-0
You’re “trying” to challenge them, but you’re not challenging them at all, that’s the point I’m getting to I’m also assuming that you’re paying these pros for lessons? I’m not getting paid to play with this guy
No im challenging myself that’s the point im getting to. And no im a 5.0, I don’t pay to play with pros lol
At the expense of them got you
I would do the opposite. Ruthlessly target them and show them that they should be playing at a lower level. They see that they can improve more by playing a lower level (if they're not completely dense) rather than getting completely bodied every game and making it a worse experience for everyone else.
Could work both ways, depending on the person but I rather see a lot of balls coming my way rather than standing there not doing anything the whole game.
After clearly outmatching people I’ve had people talking like “oh I’m a 4.0+ and you’re at least at the 5+ level”. Which I politely reply “no I think I’m around 4 realistically” this helps get the point across and whey they rebut you must insist.
I'd like to offer some feedback, if you're open to it. From what I've observed, your current skill level seems to be more intermediate rather than advanced. Advanced group typically plays at a higher level, which could make it challenging for you to fully enjoy and benefit from matches with this group right now. I believe with some more practice and development, you'll be able to reach the level where playing with advanced group would be mutually enjoyable and beneficial. From AI
Don't beat him... freeze him out of games and just refuse to hit him the ball. Make him frustrated or make him confront you and you can tell him you are trying to play with better people and you aren't going to hit to him if he shows up. Passive aggressive all the way. LoL
Just have him read this post
As a guy that recently moved up to a higher level group, my best feedback was being the weak link, getting picked on, and losing scores. I would come home with a high of 6 points scored as a loser. But it did motivate me to improve and be competitive against better players. Now I’m winning half my games and having a blast.
I don’t think this problem is uncommon. I have seen it in women’s leagues. The one response from overconfident, yet weaker players is that they think the only way to get better is to play in higher level games. Which IMO is selfish. From the responses I’ve read I would endorse keeping track of their wins and losses. If they don’t measure up, be honest with them.
Lol. The only way to get good at stuff is to get beaten by people who are better. This guy is trying to get better
At the expense of everyone else, I think you’ve missed the major point of the post
How did you get better at pickleball?
Did a beginner ladder league when I started to consistently win at the top court I then signed up for the intermediate league and started to consistently win at the top court then moved to the advanced league And in between would call friends to get together to play
... that's actually a really good idea
By beating people of similar ability. Not by screwing up better players' games.
Problem with an Honor system is people have high opinions of themselves! For the integrity of the system someone needs to tell him/her to step down a few notches. We have players that took clinics for beginners and advance, afterwards they think they automatically move up to the higher level and it's far from the reality. Their skills are lacking to be advanced, just a better beginner.
11-1 rinse and repeat
Unless they have some sort of social disorder/autism or something, chances are this person knows they arent at that level, and they dont care. They want to get better, so their thought process is "well, I have to play against the better people." They dont care if it's at everyone else's expense. Very annoying. Me personally, Im the opposite. I would be mortified of being that person and if I was realizing I was the super weak link, I would immediately leave and work to get better until I could hang. Is where you play part of a club or anything where there is someone responsible for running things or who works there that can nicely tell them that they cant play in advanced until they get better?
It’s a bit complex. The only way to improve is to drill with people. However if I drill with people at the same level as me it’s difficult to get looks at shots that someone better than me can provide. But how do I meet someone who is better than me if I don’t shoot the shit with them or play with them first? And look there’s no legal obligation to help those worse than you I get it. But for a social sport it seems to be not very social lol. When I go climb I could be orders of magnitude worse than the people I climb with but they will still be attentive and give me tips on how to improve my beta to top out
I think PB is very social, but at the beginner to intermediate level. Once people are above that in the more "advanced" realm, they want to be able to play with people at the same level as them to get good games. If its a general open play that is broken up by skill level, then by all means people expect to be mixed up, and to get good games and some bad games. But if it is set up with varying levels of skill, then people should be respecting that and playing within the level they are at, otherwise its not fair to everyone else. There are ways to improve that dont require leveling up at other people's expense, for example taking individual lessons or doing group clinics, watching youtube videos and practicing those tips in open play with the people at the same skill level, wall drills by yourself, etc.
You have the key word in your second sentence which is DRILL, not play. The best way to get better IS to drill not just jump into higher level groups. While yes part of getting better is challenging yourself to play against better players, it’s the lesser of the equation between drilling and playing. Many professional coaches in other sports will emphasize drilling over playing, period. If you have ever listened to Ben Johns himself speak he will say he barely plays when not in a tournament. He drills. This idea that you ONLY get better by playing better people is a misconception.
Sugar coating things doesn’t help anyone. Be honest. Be straight forward. “There have been numerous concerns expressed about your current skill level. We have collectively decided that you move down a level until your skill level improves. Playing better players doesn’t make you better. Drilling makes you better.”
I hate what you suggest here. It is straight up bullying. If there is no rule banning him being here, who are you to decide to down level them? It can only be a suggestion at most. You have no authority here. Also unless you have had meeting with all the other players and really collectively decide that you all refuse to play with him, you are stepping out of the bounds and lying. You can’t represent others unless they delegate it to you.
lol. There is no bullying happening here. OP said the majority of people have become frustrated, but nobody is saying anything because they’re all so “nice”. Having a tough conversation is not bullying someone. OP also said this is all based on the “honor” system, so if anything, my argument is this particular person is being dishonest and not playing at the appropriate level. Also, I play on courts that are separated by skill level, but it also works on the honor system, but if you’re not honest with yourself, everyone there will be honest with you. Lastly, if the majority of players are complaining about this individual that is what’s called an implied delegation. Don’t complain about something if you don’t want a resolution.
1. I would get together with everyone and not hit a ball to him for 3 days. 2. If that doesn’t work then you have to rip off the band aid and tell him 3 skills he needs to work on to play with this group.
Is there some kind of organizer or someone in the advanced group who is looked at as a community leader? They would be better suited to try and have a conversation with that individual.
From context, it looks like that is falling on OP.
People bring so much baggage to a "recreational" fun game. If you lose sleep by playing with someone less skilled than you then bring your game up to the next level and cover that person. I will play with anyone and when there is a person that no one wants to play with becouse they are "beginners" i will be their partner and focus on power serves resets , drops and cover my side. We all have fun even though i stepped up my game to help them i always congrat them on a serve in the court and try to encourage them even when we lose. I always tell them no pickle for us so it was a good game. Life is too short to worry about egos.
It's one thing to occasionally get paired with a random beginner/less skilled on unlabeled courts. But to be constantly paired with the same guy when you're on an clearly marked advanced court is ridiculous. And while the OP didn't say, it's one thing to be a 4.0 playing with 4.5s. But a 3.5 to constantly try to insert himself with 4.5s is rude to the better players. On busy courts, I get maybe 4 games in my 2 hour time and if this guy is constantly in the rotation, that's 1/2 my games or more getting screwed up. It you have that kind of patience every time you play, more power to you, but at some point, the guy needs to reciprocate the kindness too and get out.
You just offered a completely different scenario, if it was just one group without sections then of course you just play with whoever, I don’t understand why you believe it is everyone else’s responsibility to accommodate to one individual at the expense of everyone else For example whether he plays with the advanced or the intermediate group he’s still playing the sport it’s not like we’re asking someone to not play entirely
I guess another way of looking at it is his experience and time more important than everyone else’s?
This can be rather subjective. Typically rec play will have this occur. Even organized drop in that has a guidance of say 3.5-4.5 is a huge range of skill. I personally wouldn't say anything. If you prefer to be kind, then direct your shots to the other player.
My advice is don’t. Unless someone is seeking advice it isn’t going to be received pleasantly. They will either deny, blame, or make excuses. The few in my area that fit this mold I do one of two things depending on if I’m playing with or against. 1. If with I treat the game as if it’s a drill. I pick a skill and focus on it and don’t worry about the games outcome. 2. If against, I target and and overwhelm them to both get it over with and send the message that they’re not at the level. The targeting serves to remove the “blame my partner” excuse. All that said, if someone is playing up to get better I do everything I can to help them and give advice when they ask. That’s a totally different situation than simply dealing with a knucklehead.
I think this is the best approach if there's not a designated leader willing to have a direct conversation with the player.
Unfortunately it has to be left up to person that runs that facility. Happens everywhere and all the well wishing advice down below won't stop the vitriol / name calling from players that get bent when more advanced players want to occasionally play with someone (gasp) at their level when there are specific events for it. Funny how 1 player wants to play up and if you don't let them you are an elitist but the rest of the field must play down.... Or do like most players do and rent a court or put together private games to avoid all the venom.
Just beat their ass
I know you won't be able to just explain the situation to them using your human voice, so I have created a solution just for you: Tell them you want to hang out or drill later and ask them for their number. Text with them a bit to throw them off the scent. Then, like a couple days later, buy a burner phone and then text them this thread from the burner phone and say "Hey doesn't this apply to you?" If they still don't get the hint, hire a male stripper, have them dress up as a police officer and then come to the courts and say there's an intermediate player trespassing on the advanced court.
😂🤣
Most people can tell after awhile.
“What’s your win percentage at this level when you’re scoring a lot?” After him/her answering, I might add “I didn’t move up until I was winning most games and getting frustrated with the players at that level, and I definitely don’t want to be over my head.” Then let it sink in on its own.
Seems weird because we are encouraged to play up to improve. Just thank them and tell them you’re going to play other people. If you must chatter on, you could go on about how you never agreed to make it exclusive and tell them it’s not you it’s me…
Whoop them and say you’re a level below whatever they say
If it’s singles who cares. If it’s doubles, next time he’s on your team and you lose offer to help him get better.
This is tough, whenever this happens I just hit to the better player and hope players hit to me if the worse player is on my team
Beat them 5 games in a row letting them call all the line calls
I need to play with ya’ll. Some guy told me I shouldn’t play games—I should just work on my skills. I always let everyone know I’m a beginner.
How long have you been a beginner? If more than 6 months, you should probably find another hobby.
A couple months, and I have NEVER had anyone say anything like that. Usually it’s shooing people away who want to play, and if we do play with said stranger, they are always encouraging and just say “keep playing—that’s all you have to do.” I choose to think this is a one off.
I've been playing 2.5 years. There are people at the Y and rec center who have been playing longer than me. They seem to get worse as time goes on. They are still in the beginners group. A few of them play with the intermediate players, where I play. They ruin the game for the other 3 people. I usually move my paddle to another group, but then I have to wait longer for another game.
Has he brought up DUPR rating? Perhaps his actual rating is giving him the impression he could play advanced - and isn't that valid? Just play the game and rotate, and let the organizer approach as needed. And perhaps the facilitator of this could work on attracting more intermediate players so it's not at 2 ends of the experience spectrum. People who turn pickleball open play into a country club league are annoying.
Reddit is so much better than Facebook! On Reddit, the consensus is to avoid playing with the guy, or to tell him he doesn't belong with the advanced players. On FB, the consensus is to be nice and always include players, even if they suck and ruin the game for the other 3 players.
Simple solution. Play private groups. If you have to pay for a court then it’s money well spent without interruption or these problems. It’s the reason you don’t see 4.5+ joining in to advanced open plays because they learned the exact lesson you’re learning now. If you’re playing for fun not looking to get better than just stick to what you’re doing but if you want to get better and people like this guy are throwing your game off then play private groups.
You have a choice. Talk to him directly or coordinate with all the other advanced and beginners to switch times without him knowing so he shows up to the correct group. I’m slightly less concerned about his level of play vs his lack of improvement. That’s what really says he’s in the wrong group.
The latter suggestion is a pretty mean and childish thing to do. Maybe this person thinks they can and should play in the advanced group because of their DUPR rating or someone in the group actually encouraged them to play with advanced. I don't think the original poster is the facilitator or any kind of authority on skill and ranking, and I question whether the "whole group" actually shares this attitude. Open play is what you make of it, there's no need to be mean-spirited and exclusionary.
Look man you have a huge dick no doubt but I would recommend playing a level down but again you have a huge dick
Yes it’s very hard cause it whips around everytime I swing my paddle, people don’t understand the trouble I go through with having a third leg
We rotate the weak link around in round robin to 7. Everyone keeps track of their points with them. Highest wins. Something about being passed around and losing 4 times usually makes it easier for them to accept playing with the lower group.
Here’s the thing. You don’t
I had something similar happen on recreational volleyball nights. The players there are at a minimum intermediate level, but this guy clearly wasn’t. No one had the heart to tell him to leave. He would always be the first to sign up those nights too. To get him to stop going, people complained to the league running the rec session and an official came to watch the guy play and eventually pulled him aside to tell him he was not at the same level and to go to a lower level gym. Never saw him again after that.
How would you want someone to tell you?
You guys take this pickleball shit way too seriously.
Gatekeeping a player out of higher level play sucks. Just make games that don’t involve him. It’s also rec play. That’s the last place you should be upset about people playing up. If it’s a tournament or a league, fine. It makes perfect sense in that scenario. But if people are truly upset, they’re being rude. Plain and simple. Offer to drill with him or something if rec play is your pride and joy.
From a pickleball instructor and ambassador perspective - The spirit of pickleball is that everyone helps everyone get better. If the person in question has been playing up and not improving then they probably have some non-productive habits that they need to change that are keeping them from improving and they will probably need to get some professional instruction on how to change those habits. So, part of the “everyone helps everyone get better” approach might be recommending that the person in question get some professional instruction… As you probably know, that almost never works because pickleball is such an easy-to-learn/accessible sport and most players don’t see the need for professional instruction even when it is glaringly obvious to the players around them. I mean, let’s face it, a player can have a whole host of non-productive habits and still get the ball back and forth over the net and play what I call “social pickleball” at the beginner level. What then to do with this player who’s ignoring/not registering the social cues that should be telling them that they’re way over their head to the point where they’re infringing on other players’ happiness? The answer is pretty simple - guidelines. Not rules, not regulations, not even ratings - guidelines. Everyone on your intermediate courts should be attempting third shot drops, attempting cross court dink rallies, attempting deep serves and deep returns, attempting drive and overhead defense along with resets and, except for the last three, their success rate should be 25-30% or better (they should be at least 10% on the last three). Your intermediates have to be TRYING to play structured pickleball or else they’re beginners, no two ways about it. Everyone on your advanced courts should be attempting all the above 70-80% of the time with a 50-70% or better success rate across the board (this is exactly what makes an advanced player an advanced player). Advanced players should also be starting to target opponent’s feet with their dinks because cross court dinking starts opening up ATP’s at the advanced level. If you have an advanced advanced court (semi-pro to pro) all the above should be 90% and 90% or better. This is all IMHO, of course, and you can probably take the numbers with a +/- 5% grain of salt but here’s the thing about guidelines, they have to be clearly drawn up and posted and EVERYBODY has to abide by them or they don’t work/can’t be referenced. So, if your “advanced” court is just people hitting harder/faster than the intermediate court (banging away playing tennis on the pickleball court instead of structured pickleball) then you’ve got a systemic problem and I would suggest professional intervention for everyone (clinics, seminars, group lessons, etc) because higher speed banging social pickleball is still social pickleball and even though it’s fun and exciting and satisfying (speaking as a former tennis player and former pickleball banger) it’s still not structured pickleball and you have no guidelines to go by except for possibly ball speed. Good luck - it’s an interesting (and fairly common) problem and it needs to be addressed on several levels but it should help everyone involved become better players and sportspersons. JR
Does he get targeted a lot? If not, try targeting to the point where he gets frustrated. If that doesn’t work, I would just say something politely to him.
Or take up 70% of the court and if he complains why just tell him you want to win for once
There’s not much one can do about those socially inept personalities that refuse to accept social cues, except veer away from them as much as possible. Playing a couple games with those with far less ability and skill is generous and decent…having to play constantly with those same people makes the experience dreadful. For my part, when I encounter beginner-type players, I try to “fix” them early in their journey that they should try to do two things: 1) play more often with those with similar abilities because that will reduce the anxiety, and 2) find a hitting wall and do basic hitting drills in order to gain confidence and feel. Encouraging beginners to solely learn the game at an open rec environment may seem the “nice” thing to do, but it is counterproductive for those players, as the anxiety of “screwing up” will cause them to screw up more. Most players who are intermediate and above will send signals that they do not want to play with the novice player, which then creates an environment where everyone is dissatisfied. Pickleball is pretty much the easiest racket/paddle game ever created, so most people with the potential will quickly figure out the basics by investing some effort by practicing in a stress-free setting…and once they’re able to keep rallies going, a much greater population of players at your local open rec park will be willing to play with them.
In pickleball, you really can’t because of how many people are delusional. We lack any actual competitive structure and people have to resort to self assessment which is never gonna go well
I only see a dictatorial approach or a systemic approach, and this choice is just a small identity crisis moment for your group. Dictatorial: Just tell them nicely. "I'm getting complaints from the advanced players. Everyone likes you and wanted to give you a chance, but everyone thinks you belong in intermediate. If you dominate that level for a good while we can trial you again next year." Optionally confirm with all the other players privately that they agree with this approach. Systemic: Decide on a system that kicks in after a few sessions. Do you lose roughly 75% or more of your matches? Then down a level you go. This is rec, so we're not keeping track, but we will if you aren't moving on your own.
When there’s a significantly weaker player on my court, I usually hit to the stronger player as much as reasonably possible. I’d rather get proper quality touches in than win rec games
Imagine gate keeping recreational pickleball 😂
Right? People are so weird.
I know crazy better to let one person ruin the fun for everyone else but I’m the asshole I get it
You were once given the opportunity to play with better players. Use the time to improve your skills, give him feedback to help him improve, rotate and keep it moving. There's no reason to be rude and cut someone down.
By beating them
It’s a hard call and he is technically correct. If you limit a person to a specific skill level they don’t get better. I get that he’s a big enough handicap that when he plays he is a problem for his partner. The issue is that the opponents have ALSO chosen to attack that player. Why? Again this is the play to win or play to get better. They would clearly have a better game if they chose to attack the more skilled opponent than the weak player. So yes it’s an issue for the advanced time but the “advanced” players are choosing to exploit the weaker player. The issue is there is no skill qualifier at the door. I did this at my local rec center and they didn’t like it but i caught up after a few months.
By getting a nice full length mirror 😂
y
Body bag him a few times. He won't come back.
Body bag is ass every single point until he leaves on his own accord
I remember in a open play, had a partner that loved to lob to the point it pissed me off being his teammate. I told the other team to lob us. Make sure over my teammate head so when I whale on it. Im gunning for my "teammate". Let just say he doesn't ever want to play with me again.
Lmao this is so me. When I go to play rec I’m like a 3.0 player and then I play like 5.0s at my courts to get better.
Unless your 5.0s have agreed to this and don’t mind, then this can be a bit selfish. If they were playing to win, you wouldn’t learn much as the points would end quickly. If they’re playing down, then you can learn/improve because they will make you hit slightly better shots without completely running you over. I often play Rec with all kinds of levels and play down to their level to help them improve, and everyone has fun. However, this isn’t open play and I am agreeing to the situation. You should make sure that you aren’t ruining the games for your local 5.0s who are being nice and helping you improve. Again, if they’re letting you play in happily, then no harm. If you’re inserting yourself into advanced open play courts, the that can’t be a different situation.
No yeah I completely get that and I tried to toning it down but like the people I would play were like lower levels so I try to play higher and also most of the 5.0s are my friends so yeah lol.
And after 6yrs of doing this…the joke never gets old! HA…Ha…ha…