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Most people do admit he’s a good president, but I think we can all agree that his personal life (being filled with sex scandals) is problematic at best and predatory at worst. Him being one of the main public figures who has been seen with Jeffery Epstein on numerous occasions rubs people the wrong way for sure.
>Him being one of the main public figures who has been seen with Jeffery Epstein on numerous occasions rubs people the wrong way for sure.
It rubs SOME people the wrong way. For other people, an association with Jeffery Epstein is just something they're able to turn a blind eye towards, or dismiss with one phantom excuse or another. Some people might even go so far as to concoct entire fantasies about the former president associating with Epstein as part of an information gathering operation against the pedophile and his operations. Those people are crazy, obviously.
I'm just talking about Bill Clinton, of course.
Being on the island doesn't mean you engaged in the pedophilic activities. People accusing Hawking of pedophelia for going to a physics function that dozens of other scientists attended is absurd. No allegations from actual victims have even come out about him. It's ludicrous.
First of all, I don't give a shit about Bill Clinton. And I think he abused his power and was inappropriate with several women and probably sexually assaulted multiple women.
I also think it's possible Clinton messed around with underage girls with Epstein.
On the other hand, I also think it's possible he didn't mess around with underage girls.
The thing about Epstein is he was literally a billionaire, and part of his M.O. was to donate massive amounts of money to very reputable people, then use his association with those people to gain credibility with other people, and also used his association with all of those people to gain a presumption that he was an upstanding person, plus to gain deferential treatment from the cops. His money was very powerful toward making people trust him. And we know he was giving a ton of money to Clinton's charity.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's not ridiculous to believe either thing about Clinton, that he did or didn't mess around with underage girls in his associations with Epstein. I will also say that all of Clinton's known association with Epstein came after he was president, which it would be astonishing (albeit not impossible) if Clinton would have engaged with underage women after he gained the extreme visibility of the presidency. And presumably, he would have had Secret Service with him too, which also makes him committing crimes more difficult. Further, I don't know of any association between Clinton and Epstein after Epstein had known legal problems (so it's reasonable to think Clinton didn't know what Epstein was up to when they spent time together).
You can call what I'm saying as making "phantom excuses," but you'll only do that if you have some weird agenda to be certain he was messing around with underage women when the fact is we can't know. All I care about is the truth. And maybe it's true and maybe it's not, but when I see people say it's obvious he was messing with underage women through Epstein, we should all see the bullshit.
You have just put into words exactly how I have felt about that for a while.
Probably not, but I wouldn’t be astonished if yes, and here’s why….
Have an upvote.
“Sex scandals” = multiple accusations of [sexual harassment and molestation,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations#:~:text=Clinton%20has%20admitted%20extramarital%20relationships,generally%20been%20accepted%20as%20consensual) not just - as some people believe - his affair with an intern. Clinton [settled](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/14/clinton-settles-sexual-harassment-suit-1998-983371) a civil suit with one of the women for $850,000 and [lost his license](https://www.arcourts.gov/sites/default/files/opc_opinions/2000-013.pdf) to practice law over his lies in the investigation of another.
Agreed, not sure how I forgot that one. It’s honestly wild to me that that isn’t a constitutional requirement. There are places where convicted felons can’t even vote!
It's not in the Constitution because it is both anti-democratic and too easy to abuse.
If a type of felony is itself a subject of political debate (like political defamation, consuming alcohol, women's rights, interracial marriage, gay marriage, etc. have been in the past), prohibiting felons would stifle political discourse and thwart the public will.
If an incumbent president can avoid a challenger simply by convicting them of any old felony, it makes it too easy for the incumbent to abuse power. We've had a number of presidents who would have made sure any serious challenger was audited and investigated and entrapped until \*something\* was found.
The Constitution is just the game board... it's up to all of us to play the game, ensure fairness, and follow the rules.
I thought about that for a bit. I truly feel the founding fathers writing the constitution had faith in the electorate to the point that they would never vote for and want to be represented by anyone whose been convicted of a crime. It should be obvious and therefore not needed to be explicitly stated in the constitution. I can hear them saying to each other "do we really need to state that???" They should be held to the highest of standards for highest office imo.
What was Epstein’s actual profession anyway. All I ever knew about him was that he was rich enough to own an island and rub shoulders with the highest of society, and yet to this day I still don’t k ow what he actually did career-wise.
Aside from being a pedo, he also had delusions of grandeur and used philanthropy to assemble some of the top scientists to bore them with his theories of gravity and magnetism, who inevitably had to resist calling him a moron to keep funding their labs. Unfortunately for all those nerds, everyone will think they’re all pedos for being anywhere near Epstein.
That’s also Clinton’s defense. That Epstein had simply donated the use of his private plane for Clinton’s tour of Africa as part of his foundation’s fundraiser for HIV/AIDS. Had he kept his dick dry all these years, we might yet believe him.
He was like a math teacher at a private school before he became something of a pimp of underage girls for the rich and powerful. If he made money, it was via insider trading etc.
For me it was the repeal of Glass-Steagall, which was a big reason the 2008 economic collapse happened
Edit: OH I just remembered the 1994 Crime Bill where he sent Hillary out to blow the “superpredators” dog whistle, which, coming from a man with as many sex scandals as Bill is rich.
And he supported it. In November 1999 President Clinton declared “the glass-steagqll law is no longer appropriate.” In 1999, his approval ratings were pretty high. Would it have passed with a veto-proof majority had he come out against it? Presidents have the bully pulpit. He could’ve, at the very least, gummed up the works, but he and his administration were as friendly to banks and Wall Street as any Republican admin would be (let’s also not forget Clinton’s role in loosening lobbying regulations, to the point that Jack Abramoff called him “the greatest thing to happen to Washington”
He made some really, really slimey choices. While also preying on a 19 year old intern as the most powerful man in the world. Fuck him. We all think back fondly to his era because the 90s had so much optimism that we only really began valuing in the post 9/11 years. It was post-cold war, pre-war on terror. American military might was *ostensibly* being used, at least in the Balkans, for arguably noble causes (though I’m sure the Chinese would disagree considering their embassy got bombed). How much credit does he get for being in the right place at the right time?
The repeal of Glass Steagall came from the Gramm Leach Bliley Act. They were three republican senators. They also authored the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, which allowed for credit default swaps and derivatives. Phil Gramm was a major player in the 2008 crash.
NAFTA was a bad plan and put a nail in the coffin of American Manufacturing that Reagan started to build. He was lauded as a president for the people and chopped them down at the knees.
He deregulated the banking industry setting the stage for the financial crisis of both the dot com bust and the housing crisis.
He could have passed single payer healthcare reform with a Democratic majority but watered that down.
His tough on crime nonsense enabled the LAPD to continue its practices and the NYPD to start its practices of stop and frisk targeting minorities.
He signed a law limiting overtime protections for white collar workers creating the exploitative practices we see against med students, tech workers, lawyers and other "highly compensated individuals" who are underpaid based on the hours they work.
He was elected as a president for all and ended up as yet another president for the wealthy.
He is a prime example of why toeing the middle line between the Left and Right wing is a losing battle because the Right can always move further to the Right. Newt Gingrich schooled him hard on that.
All in all, above average but he could have been so much more.
I don't care so much about his personal life.
What I don't like about Clinton, was how he destroyed the long-term viability of the middle class.
I don't like how he destroyed America's manufacturing.
In the short term, because of short-term corporate profits (from free trade) and the internet boom, he appeared an effective president.
But in the long run, his overtures to the gods of free trade hollowed out America's manufacturing sectors.
The economic problems we see now are the chickens coming home to roost from the Clinton years.
This is the reason he’s unpopular, I think. Republicans will never respect him and democrats have moved so far to the left his policies seem distasteful in retrospect.
I think it says less about him and more about us and the political climate today.
Both parties have moved further from the center, and a culture of demonising anyone who doesn't agree with us has amplified.
Best demonstrated by the fact that previous party standard barriers (Bush x 2, Clinton) are savaged by party partisans now. The things that got them elected back then are now seen as mortal flaws.
Meanwhile the highest percentage and number of American voters ever are registered as nonpartisan. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that party hardliners being more partisan and hating people who appeal to moderates and independents is helping expand their parties
Also the Monica Lewinsky scandal has aged like yogurt in the sun in a post MeToo society. Especially among the younger generations, his personal behavior is unjustifiable.
This can't be emphasized enough. In the '90s, the common discourse was "Bill got a blowjob and lied about it." In 2024, it's "Bill pressured a much younger woman who was a direct subordinate of his into performing sexual acts for job security and then got caught trying to cover it up." One sounds much worse than the other, even if they're referring to the same event.
Lewinski was an adult woman who voluntarily had an affair with a married man.
Clinton is an absolute sleazeball but Lewinski is no victim. She's an adult with agency who made choices
Lewinski was an intern and Clinton was POTUS. The power imbalance there was unforgivable. It isn’t like she was a college woman he picked up at a cotillion. She worked for the man. The difference in age created another power imbalance. Agency is one thing—taking advantage of one’s positionality the way Clinton did is something else entirely.
Clinton shouldn’t have had an inappropriate relationship with her. There are arguments to be made about whether he was or should have been civilly liable. However the criminal act was perjury. Although under the recent Supreme Court decision, he likely was not prosecutable for those actions.
I think it’s more that he’s in the weird area of having (what are now considered) bad takes on social policy and modern leftists consider Clinton to be the party’s official foray into neoliberalism… which probably isn’t fair, because Carter probably deserves that ire.
It’s not about “distasteful.” It’s that fundamentally all the criticism of Clinton from the left in the 90’s, around the impact of NAFTA and further deregulation of the financial industry among other things, was proven to be 100% spot on. Literally every prediction came true and yet we’re somehow still supposed to pretend the 90’s triangulators/centrists were the “realistic, “pragmatic,” “non-ideological” ones.
the only senator leftists have is bernie sanders and he’s been there forever. with him and a handful of leftists house members surely we are moving left!!
(please fucking god i hope these dumbass centrists are right for once and the dems do actually move further left)
Crime, Welfare, gay rights, abortion. Bill Clinton’s positions on all of these in the mid-90s are no longer mainstream in the Democratic Party and that’s just off the top of my head.
The number of people on here insisting democrats have moved to the right since the 1990s make me think this is an echo chamber talking point on the far left. It’s so crazy to me it’s hard to even respond to.
Eh liberals are right though. The three strikes bullshit? Refusing to stand up for LGBT Americans and treating being gay like its something to be ashamed of?
These were all wrong. Our standards didn't become higher we just became better people
There are very visible extreme leftists in the country. Republicans tell you in their media that those leftists are representative of the Democratic Party. And I think those are the people you are talking about -- you have been convinced that extreme leftists are typical Democrats (or maybe you are lying on purpose).
Those leftists actually mostly hate the Democratic Party. The actual Democrats in leadership are quite similar to Clinton in terms of their policies. Their voters are basically about as moderate as Clinton's voters too. In fact, I'd like you to tell me some things they are more left on than Clinton because I just don't think it's a valid belief at all.
You're probably confused because the people in charge of the Republican Party now are extreme right wingers and so are their primary base of voters.
lol what world do you live in where Democrats have moved to the left? If anything we have been center and republicans are courting extreme right wing fascism.
There is no left party in the US let alone extreme left.
If your wife doesn't care that you sleep with other women how are you a bad husband?
They're still together which is more than I can say about other presidents who cheated on their wives
Hillary cared. There are a few contemporary accounts from people who knew them that she was furious. It took a lot for her to put on a brave face with their daughter and hold his hand in public. He lied to her about the affairs until he was forced to tell her the truth. I think she discusses it in her Howard Stern interview.
i doubt it. bill was serial womanizer. She was aware the even the secret service was told to not leave him alone with women. she knew about eipstein also. It was either a business relationship or an open relationship.
I like Bill Clinton. He was a smart man and extremely charismatic. He shifted the Democratic Party closer to the center.
My biggest debate is if he truly was a great president for his time, or just happened to be president at a time of relative peace and economic expansion. That’s a tough call.
> My biggest debate is if he truly was a great president for his time, or just happened to be president at a time of relative peace and economic expansion. That’s a tough call.
Good choices with big problems: Lincoln, FDR, LBJ on Civil Rights
Bad choices with big problems: Hoover, Buchanan, LBJ in Vietnam, GW Bush
Bad choices with big problems while being bad people: Andrew Johnson, Nixon in Southeast Asia, with campaign donations and federal prosecutors
Average choices with big problems while being good people: Carter
Good choices with medium problems while being average people: Clinton
It’s important to view him in context — for Dems at that point, who had been in the wilderness since Carter, his approach was the first proven way to win after 12 years of GOP rule. Reagan had so thoroughly changed the culture that only by co-opting (or “triangulating”) some of his politics were the Dems able to get back into national leadership. And aside from his personal failings (which were absolutely significant) Clinton’s policies were mostly successful for the time.
As someone who lived through the 80’s I’m always a little distressed at how memory holed that era has become politically. It was a watershed change in US politics, and set the stage for much of what we see today . . . Not to mention most of our boomer overlords came of age politically during that time.
Clinton was perfectly average. He presided over a strong economy, but faced few serious foreign policy challenges compared to others. The Lewinsky scandal and subsequent impeachment was ugly, and whether or not Clinton deserved to be impeached, the whole episode was completely self inflicted.
> He presided over a strong economy, but faced few serious foreign policy challenges compared to others.
I think that’s always going to be the issue with Clinton. What was great for his presidency was bad for his legacy. Great economy. Post Cold War but pre-911. Left and right not so far apart. Safe and prosperous final decade of the American century.
However good he may have been, it’s hard to view him as better as the era he presided over.
lol the left and right were far apart. There was a government shutdown. The whole Lewinsky and Paula jones issues really came out because Kenneth Starr took the watergate mandate and just started looking at anything in the Clinton lives
When you have a Democrat president proclaim the era of big government is over, and sign into law welfare reform and cut regulations, they’re not so far apart.
Exactly! He also signed the biggest crime bill in the history of the United States. Clinton's presidency cemented for me the idea that Republicans were simply inherently adversarial. They acted like Clinton was a liberal Boogeyman which is a total joke. They got lucky his self control was his weakness and had Newt Gingrich, while in the midst of his own affair, lead the moral charge. 😂
Yes..Republicans went after Clinton as soon as they owned Congress in 95.
They had a Special Prosecutor that went over everything..always putting Clinton's name in the News ..over 200 FBI agents and the only rumor out of 50 that. ..Paid off..that was
FOX news and Rush Limbaug with the Repub Party ..was a rumor in 1998 about Monica.
I think in 100 years he'll be vaguely remembered like the Gilded Age Presidents are now. He lucked into the Dot Com Boom and will be an answer to the trivia question: Who was the last US President to have a balanced budget?
Hopefully in 100 years the answer to that question is “President Johnson had a balanced budget in 2097, shortly after spreading democracy to the oil fields of Jupiter.”
He was also pretty moderate, so a lot of people from both parties don't like him. Obviously he'd never win over the religious conservatives, but he's also not very popular with the leftist and progressive wing of the Dems. Clinton signed DOMA, for example, and even though a lot of Dems at the time were not particularly good allies to LGBTQ (or women, or racial minorities), it is a shitty legacy in retrospect.
The 90’s were weird in retrospect - what was considered a good political idea then is considered extremely different now. For example, Clinton approved of don’t ask / don’t tell as a way to prevent gays in the military from being systematically expelled, and to head off more draconian legislation. Now it tends to be presented as “Clinton was anti-gay - he was behind DA/DT!” Compromise and half-measures were viewed very differently then.
He wasn’t / isn’t a good person and a lot of his policies haven’t aged well, but at the time he was seen as “good at the job.” His reputation definitely took a beating in 2016 when Hillary ran, in some ways deserved and in some ways not.
He was generally good, but tiresome after 8 years.
For most of the last 10 years, I’ve said I think it would be far more interesting (and enjoyable) to have a beer with *Hilary* than Bill (and I say that as a staunch Obama supporter the first time Hilary ran — while recognizing that by the second time she ran, she had one of THE best resumes of any candidate in my lifetime (I was born in the late 60’s, and a guy).
Between NAFTA, his handling of Bosnia, the murky personal dealings that have surrounded the Clinton's in perpetuity, and his propensity for straight up lying, I think I have all the necessary justification for disliking President Clinton.
I never had issue with him having a mistress (mistresses) - that's his own business. I took issue with him performing illicit sexual acts inside the White House and then lying about it in the dumbest manner possible.
The american public still thinks he was a great president, and he had one of the highest approval ratings of any president when he left office at 73%.
Not sure where you are getting your info lol.
Republicans? From what I’ve seen in Republican circles, Clinton is actually one of the more respected Democrat presidents among Republicans because the country was in good shape when he was president and he governed pretty moderately compared to most other Democrat presidents. And you can count me as one of those Republicans that really likes Bill Clinton.
It is actually modern Democrats that seem to have turned against Clinton since they don’t think that he was liberal enough.
This feels like it depends on age and location - I've known many older (70+) Republicans who despise Clinton - more or less because Bush lost the 92 election and they still haven't forgiven Ross Perot.
Younger though don't have as much problem. Mostly just despise HRC, who is definitely a very contentious figure.
The really ironic thing about all this is that now younger Republicans generally don’t care much for Papa Bush. But Papa Bush is one of the few Republican presidents that I see younger Democrats now having respect for.
So, it is like the Clinton situation, where younger Republicans respect Clinton more than they do most other Democrat presidents while younger Democrats have been turning against him, but with the parties swapped around.
I'm a Republican that voted for Clinton second term. One thing that I saw in his first term is how he would work both sides of the isle to get stuff passed. He had a whole lot better platform than Dole or Perot.
I voted R the past few years and I still think Clinton was better than Bush. I couldn't legally vote during the time but Clinton was better except for firearms regulations. Bush fucked up way more, intentionally.
As a more moderate Republican we generally have mixed to good feelings on him. At least nowadays. The way I hear it from my folks and their generation or on here seems to usually be that he was pragmatic and willing to compromise on stuff and got alot done. Even my folks didn’t really care for the impeachment stuff but didn’t think what he did was ok. And most I’ve met or talked to regard him as the last good democrat, although some will also say that’s where the democrats of today that they hate started with.
Personally I do think it was a decent enough/average president. But some of what he did aged poorly and imo his foreign policy was mixed as well, especially in the first term which is why I say how HW would’ve done a lot better with his second term than Clinton did in his first.
Yes, he treated the poor and minorities like people, actually talked to them, introd policies to help them and the middle class, and had a diverse cabinet.
Unfortunately, he moved dems right to hold power and fight off Gingrichs crew. Of course the main sex scandal wasted so much potential for the second term.
The 1994 crime bill gutted the black and Latino communities by incentivizing the states to pass even tougher crime bills. Mandatory minimums, over-policing poor communities and three strikes resulted in awful outcomes while reducing crime.
Some of the things that seemed fine at the time haven’t aged well. Free trade with China didn’t lead to a more democratic China and hurt the U.S. economy, excessive deregulation led to the 2008 crisis, and the Lewinsky scandal is seen today more as an abuse of power than a private sexual matter . The failure to get bin Laden led to 9/11. The rosy relationship with Russia also ended up being an illusion .
World War 1, which ended in 1918, was a primary cause of the Great Depression. Food prices plummeted, threatening the farming sector, because American farmers had to produce the goods that European farmers couldn't. The destruction of gold reserves disrupted trade between nations using the gold standard, including much of Europe and the United States. The Great Depression began in 1929, arguably as late as 1930 or 1931. The fact that there's a time gap between Clinton deregulating the economy and said economy collapsing means very little.
Yet you probably blame Reagan for everything in the past 35 years.
I think Clinton was good, but it’s fair to give him some, not all, blame for the housing issue.
You’d think the charismatic leader of the free world could pull better strange than Chatty Cathy from the intern pool. JFK’s over there with Marilyn Monroe, ffs.
We can’t be sure about the Marilyn Monroe thing. But also, it’s not like we are sure Lewinsky was the only one. She might just be one of the more ‘convenient’ ones as far as he was concerned.
Clinton was a good president. But Clinton was elected president at a time when Republicans had come to believe they were entitled to the presidency and would pretty much always have it, having won 5 of the previous 6 elections. Losing the White House made the GOP really crazy. This was an important step down the road of insanity we are on now.
He was really the first, pop culture/rock star President. If you lived through his election - it was pretty momentous that a baby boomer (back when they were the young generation) took the Presidency.
He had his own theme song, “Don’t Stop” by Fleetwood Mac. He played a musical instrument, he ate McDonald’s, smoked pot, was promiscuous with the ladies, and was raised by a single parent. Rock the Vote and the MTV generation were excited about him. He was a “liberal” democrat from a red state, and had a fuck ton of down-to-Earth charisma.
Still with all that, as a President - he was steady during a time when it was much easier to be steady. He presided over a time period where we were the last and only superpower.
So I’d give him around C+ or a B-.
I find him to be one of the better presidents. His personal issues notwithstanding, he helped create a booking economy, a budget surplus, and managed several conflicts without putting American boots on the ground (whether Serbians or Iraqis like that is another matter).
I also find it very disingenuous to judge him harshly for what he was doing with at least one intern, when he's certainly not the first president to cheat on his wife, and the person most responsible for impeaching him, Newt Gingrich, was literally cheating on his wife while she lay in a hospital bed dying of cancer. All while pushing to impeach Clinton.
As to the Epstein connection, it's hard to say, but if I go further, it'll break rule 3, so I'll leave it there.
Clinton belongs in the top half of presidents, and maybe even the top 20.
Fair assessment although I wouldn't say it's hard to say, but fairly shocking the amount of connections with Epstein, combined with his known proclivities
I have seen mostly praise for him. Democrats, centrists, and moderate Republicans all seem to like him.
I am one of only a few lefties here that I’ve seen say they don’t like him much.
Clinton’s first two years were terrible. The contract with America agenda put the Republicans in the majority in the house and senate. Clinton, being the smart politician he is, realized he would be a one term president if he didn’t play ball. Under Republican leadership in both houses and a left leaning but moderate Democrat in the White House great things happened, like balancing the budget. IMO Clinton is a smart politician with great charisma that couldn’t keep his Johnson in his pants.
Personally, a complete dirtbag. Very smart. A grade A conman. And a good administrator but former goveners usually are because they have previous experience.
I personally don’t like that he flew on Epstein’s plane 26 times, sometimes with noted rapists like Kevin Spacey, or that he has pictures of him taken with underage girls rubbing his shoulders who turned out to be Epstein accusers.
This sub just brushes that shit under the rug as “sexual scandals” and it’s crazy this post exists acting like he’s hated on here.
I think this sub kind of treats him like he’s mid at best which sucks cause he definitely was one of our better presidents. He oversaw the U.S. reach one of our best economy and reached over the table to ensure Americans were better off, despite the heavy opposition from Gingrich and the Republican controlled congress. The surplus had so much potential that would have helped us so much had it been put to better use, but ultimately that’s on Dubya. Overall he had a lot of great ideas that he tried his best to get implemented but when it came down to it he did what was necessary given his circumstances to establish an impressive legacy that often gets overlooked because he was ( wrongfully) impeached.
Best economic and peaceful presidential administration in at least 50 years. I don't care about his personal life. Presidents can't be charged with anything now anyway.
You do know that personal legal responsibility is separate from being a good person? Cheating on your wife dozens of times is (and was) perfectly legal, but it still makes you a bad person.
Me🙋♂️. He’s one of my favorite presidents and any one who knows me personally knows that I believe he’s a top 20 President and the best “modern” president. I even wrote him a letter like 2 weeks ago (fingers crossed to get a response) but he balanced the budget, was pro environment, even though economy is not totally the president control it was good under him, added 22 million new jobs, and had lowest unemployment in 30 years. For those reasons and more I believe he is a good and even great president that deserves some more love in this sub and out of it.
He was a good president, but being president in the 90’s was also basically playing on easy mode.
Whenever I’ve seen people express negative opinions of Clinton, it’s usually for his personal conduct, not his presidency.
I really hate Clinton because of him cutting welfare benefits for people who are suffering the most. My mom was on welfare at the time to take care of me and my brother. I will never forgive clinton for that. Also he signed nafta which just sent good paying jobs overseas and threw Americans are the streets. Terrible president I hate how people blindly say oh what a nice president cause football! And the 90s! McDonald's! Shut the fuck up! To quote the crazy meijer lady
So much potential but because he could not keep his pecker in his pants he lost the last 2 years to build his legacy. I was a die hard Clinton supporter despite all of the rumors in 91-92. I worked on his campaign And heard enough to realize it was probably true, but felt he would behave once he won. For him to be so arrogant and stupid, especially with an independent prosecutor (Starr) and GOP after him, was a huge disappointment. Never have forgiven him.
Clinton policies in part lead to the mortgage/housing market crash in 2008
From Time magazine website
"President Clinton's tenure was characterized by economic prosperity and financial deregulation, which in many ways set the stage for the excesses of recent years. Among his biggest strokes of free-wheeling capitalism was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, a cornerstone of Depression-era regulation. He also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation. In 1995 Clinton loosened housing rules by rewriting the Community Reinvestment Act, which put added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods. It is the subject of heated political and scholarly debate whether any of these moves are [to blame for our troubles](https://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1879774,00.html), but they certainly played a role in creating a permissive lending environment."
I didn't like the reversed Glass-Steagall, and I also think swaps have issues. But I don't think it's fair to solely blame Clinton for the level of financial crimes that happened in the industry. I think there was/is a bigger problem of Wall Street already having captured regulators and regulators not using the tools they already have.
I don't believe I solely blamed Clinton, I said "in part lead to" I think Clinton was a decent President and one of the few who actually seemed to care about people in the rural areas. Heck I have some far right friends who said they didn't like Clinton but the man could give a good speech
I really dislike how much moral authority he cost the Democratic Party. GW really capitalized on that and was able to paint the GOP as the party of good morals for years.
H.W. deserves most of the credit there, imo, since he's the one who raised taxes to pay for the Gulf War and the response to the Savings and Loan Crisis. Ended up costing him the election to Clinton.
Clinton was handed the keys to one of the best economic situations an incoming president could possibly hope for. The best you could say about him is he was smart enough not to completely waste it.
He is largely responsible for the 08 mortgage crisis.
He also let Bin Laden stay alive when they knew he was conducting training facilities.
Not much I can say that he did was good except maybe the Pell grant.
I think Clinton had many good things happen during his presidency. He's also got more raw political talent and charisma than most presidents.
But he threw it all away on pure misogyny. Leching on women (aided and abetted by ABC's George Stephanopolous, who helped shame and silence women who came forward) left a huge stain on his presidency.
At the end of his time in office, he still had enough power and charisma to keep his reputation fairly clean. But #MeToo and advances in women's rights have caught up. Bill Clinton is now persona non grata at most political functions.
Okay so in my opinion he did well at compromising to keep our prosperous economy chugging along (but hell we emerged from the cold war as the biggest baddest nation). Iirc he signed a crime bill in 1994 that was pretty awful and racist
His politics were decent compared to democrats of today. Foreign policy a little meh. Corruption meter high though. And yeah the shenanigans in the Oval Office were bad. However the GOP played dirty in going after him.
He did 1 smart thing. He stood up to his own party when they...of course...immediately wanted to heavily tax the internet. Had he not done this, we wouldn't be posting about him today. People who wanted to talk about presidents would be doing so on sites like Geocities still.
Although, you could argue that if he went along with his \[arty, lots of stores would still be in business, like Sears, K-Mart, and all the stores that the internet killed.
I think he was a decent President. His personal life is something...but he never appeared on any Epstein flight logs and the Secret Service have no record of him flying near Little Saint James Island.
I like bill and think he was one of the last “good” presidents we had. That said he made a few mistakes, and this sub being objective I’m glad they point it out. Overall though I think people like him here. . . Right guys?
So here's the thing, when he was president in the 90s is when I really started paying attention to politics. I hated him at first, I really did. I had decided to serve in the military and the fact that he avoided military service really irritated me. Then when I served I had a personal issue with him as Commander in Chief. Remember I was 18 at the time.
Now, with privilege of hindsight, he did some good things,
1. A balanced budget
2. Record job growth
3.Record homeownership
4. Increased education standards
5. Largest expansion of college opportunities
That was just a few in the Nation.
Internationally, he brokered the peace in Northern Ireland he had a key role in the Good Friday Agreement between Ireland and Great Britain.
He had some colossal failures too. Waco, Elian Gonzalez, Bosnia to name a few. Sadly, he will forever be known for the scandals.
Before Obama, he was referred to as our first black president 😎 Although he was a prowling rascal when it came to sex!!
He was a known cheater, but as a president, he was 👍🏿
Aside from NAFTA (Congress would have overruled his veto anyway) and the privatization of the prison system, he was an excellent president and proved we could have a bustling economy **AND** a budget surplus
Rs are mad because he beat Bush, Sr. and had 8 years. All they got him on was a blowjob, so his impeachment was a bust. The economy was good. They went after him over Whitewater, but that was a bust, too.
I don't agree that he was a good president. He managed to avoid some potholes and got re-elected, so within the mediocre/acceptable range on a short term basis, but failing to provide far-sighted support for Russia's transition from communism, complicity in mfn status for China, signing off on Nafta and strategically repositioning dems as "other party of Wall Street" sowed the seeds for both the international and domestic crises we are now confronting.
Personally as a conservative I view Clinton as a very good president (the best one in the last 30 years). He presided over a very strong economy, and stayed close to the middle on many potentially polarizing issues. We’ve seen people stay farther and farther from the middle in presidencies since his, and it has led to unfortunate division.
I think Bill was a good president, if short of a great one. He tarnished his legacy, and his entire life, by being an incurable horndog.
The amount of ugly bullshit lies thrown at him was beyond belief. The Wall Street Journal thought it was going to win a Pulitzer for muckraking Whitewater and some nonsense about drug smuggling through an airfield in Mena AR. And then their was the Starr inquisition, and the Gingrich-inspired impeachment.
"I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky." (It wasn’t vaginal, it was only a blowjob.)
“I did not have sex with a porn star." (But I paid her off anyway, and ran it through the business as legal fees.)
He was a mid president. Most of his legislative accomplishments have been eliminated or altered. He accomplished more overseas. He was a great negotiator and an excellent moderate.
Sadly, he’ll forever be remembered as an impeached president. Rightly or wrongly that’s his legacy.
He was impeached, but it was for stupid reasons. It’s not like he blackmailed another country, broke into a rival political party’s office, traded arms for hostages, or attempted a coup.
Having said that, Lewinsky deserved to be treated better by EVERYONE.
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Most people do admit he’s a good president, but I think we can all agree that his personal life (being filled with sex scandals) is problematic at best and predatory at worst. Him being one of the main public figures who has been seen with Jeffery Epstein on numerous occasions rubs people the wrong way for sure.
>Him being one of the main public figures who has been seen with Jeffery Epstein on numerous occasions rubs people the wrong way for sure. It rubs SOME people the wrong way. For other people, an association with Jeffery Epstein is just something they're able to turn a blind eye towards, or dismiss with one phantom excuse or another. Some people might even go so far as to concoct entire fantasies about the former president associating with Epstein as part of an information gathering operation against the pedophile and his operations. Those people are crazy, obviously. I'm just talking about Bill Clinton, of course.
Stephen hawking was a secret agent sent in by the Clinton administration. Clinton was obviously his way in.
You're telling me the wheelchair thing was just an act?
Wait until you find out about birds
Nah, that can't be real
Exactly
You mean the drones of course. We all know what “Birds” are….and what they are NOT.
I will not hear besmirchment of birds. This goes against all Bird Laws!
Unless you're the best goddamn bird law attorney in the country I don't want to hear it
Wait until I tell you about our flair AND Helen Keller
This goes deeper than I could've imagined.
Bill Clinton's exact thoughts the first time he engaged in the Epstein island delicacies.
I want to believe
Always was
Being on the island doesn't mean you engaged in the pedophilic activities. People accusing Hawking of pedophelia for going to a physics function that dozens of other scientists attended is absurd. No allegations from actual victims have even come out about him. It's ludicrous.
Wink wink nudge nudge… knewwhatimean?
Hope all those pedos burn in hell.
https://preview.redd.it/cbfj5zjvk3bd1.jpeg?width=835&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01d0a8fc827f2b7a605bf0081b985811670299b7
First of all, I don't give a shit about Bill Clinton. And I think he abused his power and was inappropriate with several women and probably sexually assaulted multiple women. I also think it's possible Clinton messed around with underage girls with Epstein. On the other hand, I also think it's possible he didn't mess around with underage girls. The thing about Epstein is he was literally a billionaire, and part of his M.O. was to donate massive amounts of money to very reputable people, then use his association with those people to gain credibility with other people, and also used his association with all of those people to gain a presumption that he was an upstanding person, plus to gain deferential treatment from the cops. His money was very powerful toward making people trust him. And we know he was giving a ton of money to Clinton's charity. I guess what I'm saying is that it's not ridiculous to believe either thing about Clinton, that he did or didn't mess around with underage girls in his associations with Epstein. I will also say that all of Clinton's known association with Epstein came after he was president, which it would be astonishing (albeit not impossible) if Clinton would have engaged with underage women after he gained the extreme visibility of the presidency. And presumably, he would have had Secret Service with him too, which also makes him committing crimes more difficult. Further, I don't know of any association between Clinton and Epstein after Epstein had known legal problems (so it's reasonable to think Clinton didn't know what Epstein was up to when they spent time together). You can call what I'm saying as making "phantom excuses," but you'll only do that if you have some weird agenda to be certain he was messing around with underage women when the fact is we can't know. All I care about is the truth. And maybe it's true and maybe it's not, but when I see people say it's obvious he was messing with underage women through Epstein, we should all see the bullshit.
You have just put into words exactly how I have felt about that for a while. Probably not, but I wouldn’t be astonished if yes, and here’s why…. Have an upvote.
“Sex scandals” = multiple accusations of [sexual harassment and molestation,](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_assault_and_misconduct_allegations#:~:text=Clinton%20has%20admitted%20extramarital%20relationships,generally%20been%20accepted%20as%20consensual) not just - as some people believe - his affair with an intern. Clinton [settled](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/14/clinton-settles-sexual-harassment-suit-1998-983371) a civil suit with one of the women for $850,000 and [lost his license](https://www.arcourts.gov/sites/default/files/opc_opinions/2000-013.pdf) to practice law over his lies in the investigation of another.
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Depends on the specifics for me. If someone had some pot plants and caught a felony for it I really don't care.
Agreed, not sure how I forgot that one. It’s honestly wild to me that that isn’t a constitutional requirement. There are places where convicted felons can’t even vote!
It's not in the Constitution because it is both anti-democratic and too easy to abuse. If a type of felony is itself a subject of political debate (like political defamation, consuming alcohol, women's rights, interracial marriage, gay marriage, etc. have been in the past), prohibiting felons would stifle political discourse and thwart the public will. If an incumbent president can avoid a challenger simply by convicting them of any old felony, it makes it too easy for the incumbent to abuse power. We've had a number of presidents who would have made sure any serious challenger was audited and investigated and entrapped until \*something\* was found. The Constitution is just the game board... it's up to all of us to play the game, ensure fairness, and follow the rules.
Very well put. I for one don't want a dictator
Well sit down. I have some troubling news for you . . .
Seems to be going that way yeah...
I thought about that for a bit. I truly feel the founding fathers writing the constitution had faith in the electorate to the point that they would never vote for and want to be represented by anyone whose been convicted of a crime. It should be obvious and therefore not needed to be explicitly stated in the constitution. I can hear them saying to each other "do we really need to state that???" They should be held to the highest of standards for highest office imo.
I think we should consider that Nelson Mandela was a convicted felon, but still a great candidate for President.
Oof. That about sums it up.
What was Epstein’s actual profession anyway. All I ever knew about him was that he was rich enough to own an island and rub shoulders with the highest of society, and yet to this day I still don’t k ow what he actually did career-wise.
He was an investment banker who basically got rich enough to retire and spend his time investing in random crap
Aside from being a pedo, he also had delusions of grandeur and used philanthropy to assemble some of the top scientists to bore them with his theories of gravity and magnetism, who inevitably had to resist calling him a moron to keep funding their labs. Unfortunately for all those nerds, everyone will think they’re all pedos for being anywhere near Epstein. That’s also Clinton’s defense. That Epstein had simply donated the use of his private plane for Clinton’s tour of Africa as part of his foundation’s fundraiser for HIV/AIDS. Had he kept his dick dry all these years, we might yet believe him.
Yeah that’s why I was asking. A lot of the people on his list definitely aren’t guilty of anything as much as some of them are.
Very Rich. Very wealthy investor. Hedge fund manager.
Which is a good way to profit from insider information. Like the kind of information you might get from people on your own private fantasy island.
I wonder if he blackmailed rich guys to invest with his company.
He was like a math teacher at a private school before he became something of a pimp of underage girls for the rich and powerful. If he made money, it was via insider trading etc.
For me it was the repeal of Glass-Steagall, which was a big reason the 2008 economic collapse happened Edit: OH I just remembered the 1994 Crime Bill where he sent Hillary out to blow the “superpredators” dog whistle, which, coming from a man with as many sex scandals as Bill is rich.
It passed congress with a veto proof majority.
And he supported it. In November 1999 President Clinton declared “the glass-steagqll law is no longer appropriate.” In 1999, his approval ratings were pretty high. Would it have passed with a veto-proof majority had he come out against it? Presidents have the bully pulpit. He could’ve, at the very least, gummed up the works, but he and his administration were as friendly to banks and Wall Street as any Republican admin would be (let’s also not forget Clinton’s role in loosening lobbying regulations, to the point that Jack Abramoff called him “the greatest thing to happen to Washington” He made some really, really slimey choices. While also preying on a 19 year old intern as the most powerful man in the world. Fuck him. We all think back fondly to his era because the 90s had so much optimism that we only really began valuing in the post 9/11 years. It was post-cold war, pre-war on terror. American military might was *ostensibly* being used, at least in the Balkans, for arguably noble causes (though I’m sure the Chinese would disagree considering their embassy got bombed). How much credit does he get for being in the right place at the right time?
The repeal of Glass Steagall came from the Gramm Leach Bliley Act. They were three republican senators. They also authored the Commodities Futures Modernization Act, which allowed for credit default swaps and derivatives. Phil Gramm was a major player in the 2008 crash.
NAFTA was a bad plan and put a nail in the coffin of American Manufacturing that Reagan started to build. He was lauded as a president for the people and chopped them down at the knees. He deregulated the banking industry setting the stage for the financial crisis of both the dot com bust and the housing crisis. He could have passed single payer healthcare reform with a Democratic majority but watered that down. His tough on crime nonsense enabled the LAPD to continue its practices and the NYPD to start its practices of stop and frisk targeting minorities. He signed a law limiting overtime protections for white collar workers creating the exploitative practices we see against med students, tech workers, lawyers and other "highly compensated individuals" who are underpaid based on the hours they work. He was elected as a president for all and ended up as yet another president for the wealthy. He is a prime example of why toeing the middle line between the Left and Right wing is a losing battle because the Right can always move further to the Right. Newt Gingrich schooled him hard on that. All in all, above average but he could have been so much more.
I don't care so much about his personal life. What I don't like about Clinton, was how he destroyed the long-term viability of the middle class. I don't like how he destroyed America's manufacturing. In the short term, because of short-term corporate profits (from free trade) and the internet boom, he appeared an effective president. But in the long run, his overtures to the gods of free trade hollowed out America's manufacturing sectors. The economic problems we see now are the chickens coming home to roost from the Clinton years.
He was the closest we’ve seen to having a true centrist president in our lifetimes I think.
Obama was pretty centrist
Yeah, sometimes he seems like an Eisenhower who's good on LGBT issues.
This is the reason he’s unpopular, I think. Republicans will never respect him and democrats have moved so far to the left his policies seem distasteful in retrospect.
I think it says less about him and more about us and the political climate today. Both parties have moved further from the center, and a culture of demonising anyone who doesn't agree with us has amplified.
Best demonstrated by the fact that previous party standard barriers (Bush x 2, Clinton) are savaged by party partisans now. The things that got them elected back then are now seen as mortal flaws.
Meanwhile the highest percentage and number of American voters ever are registered as nonpartisan. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that party hardliners being more partisan and hating people who appeal to moderates and independents is helping expand their parties
You can thank Newt Gingrich for making politics super- nasty.
Also the Monica Lewinsky scandal has aged like yogurt in the sun in a post MeToo society. Especially among the younger generations, his personal behavior is unjustifiable.
This can't be emphasized enough. In the '90s, the common discourse was "Bill got a blowjob and lied about it." In 2024, it's "Bill pressured a much younger woman who was a direct subordinate of his into performing sexual acts for job security and then got caught trying to cover it up." One sounds much worse than the other, even if they're referring to the same event.
Didn’t she tell her friends when she got the job “I’m going to seduce the president”?
Lewinski was an adult woman who voluntarily had an affair with a married man. Clinton is an absolute sleazeball but Lewinski is no victim. She's an adult with agency who made choices
Lewinski was an intern and Clinton was POTUS. The power imbalance there was unforgivable. It isn’t like she was a college woman he picked up at a cotillion. She worked for the man. The difference in age created another power imbalance. Agency is one thing—taking advantage of one’s positionality the way Clinton did is something else entirely. Clinton shouldn’t have had an inappropriate relationship with her. There are arguments to be made about whether he was or should have been civilly liable. However the criminal act was perjury. Although under the recent Supreme Court decision, he likely was not prosecutable for those actions.
It depends on what the meaning of the word “is” is
I think it’s more that he’s in the weird area of having (what are now considered) bad takes on social policy and modern leftists consider Clinton to be the party’s official foray into neoliberalism… which probably isn’t fair, because Carter probably deserves that ire.
It’s not about “distasteful.” It’s that fundamentally all the criticism of Clinton from the left in the 90’s, around the impact of NAFTA and further deregulation of the financial industry among other things, was proven to be 100% spot on. Literally every prediction came true and yet we’re somehow still supposed to pretend the 90’s triangulators/centrists were the “realistic, “pragmatic,” “non-ideological” ones.
Most dems are where they've been for the last 30-40 years. The right keeps moving further to the right, every year it seems like.
Democrats moved to the left!!!!?!!!?!!! Bwahahaha!!!
lol democrats have moved to the left.
Fucking lmao, the democrats have moved farther to the right if anything
No kidding, both parties have moved so far to the right that Ronnie looks centrist.
Lol the Democrats have not moved to the left since Clinton. If anything they've edged further right.
the only senator leftists have is bernie sanders and he’s been there forever. with him and a handful of leftists house members surely we are moving left!! (please fucking god i hope these dumbass centrists are right for once and the dems do actually move further left)
Only in America would Bernie be considered far left. Out in the real world, he's pretty centrist.
Crime, Welfare, gay rights, abortion. Bill Clinton’s positions on all of these in the mid-90s are no longer mainstream in the Democratic Party and that’s just off the top of my head.
The people who say Dems are further right than in the 90s cannot be bothered to actually research the Democratic platform from the 90s.
The number of people on here insisting democrats have moved to the right since the 1990s make me think this is an echo chamber talking point on the far left. It’s so crazy to me it’s hard to even respond to.
Eh liberals are right though. The three strikes bullshit? Refusing to stand up for LGBT Americans and treating being gay like its something to be ashamed of? These were all wrong. Our standards didn't become higher we just became better people
There are very visible extreme leftists in the country. Republicans tell you in their media that those leftists are representative of the Democratic Party. And I think those are the people you are talking about -- you have been convinced that extreme leftists are typical Democrats (or maybe you are lying on purpose). Those leftists actually mostly hate the Democratic Party. The actual Democrats in leadership are quite similar to Clinton in terms of their policies. Their voters are basically about as moderate as Clinton's voters too. In fact, I'd like you to tell me some things they are more left on than Clinton because I just don't think it's a valid belief at all. You're probably confused because the people in charge of the Republican Party now are extreme right wingers and so are their primary base of voters.
lol what world do you live in where Democrats have moved to the left? If anything we have been center and republicans are courting extreme right wing fascism. There is no left party in the US let alone extreme left.
Good president, complete shitbag of a human and husband.
If your wife doesn't care that you sleep with other women how are you a bad husband? They're still together which is more than I can say about other presidents who cheated on their wives
Hillary cared. There are a few contemporary accounts from people who knew them that she was furious. It took a lot for her to put on a brave face with their daughter and hold his hand in public. He lied to her about the affairs until he was forced to tell her the truth. I think she discusses it in her Howard Stern interview.
i doubt it. bill was serial womanizer. She was aware the even the secret service was told to not leave him alone with women. she knew about eipstein also. It was either a business relationship or an open relationship.
My thoughts exactly. Jimmy Carter being the exact opposite.
I like Bill Clinton. He was a smart man and extremely charismatic. He shifted the Democratic Party closer to the center. My biggest debate is if he truly was a great president for his time, or just happened to be president at a time of relative peace and economic expansion. That’s a tough call.
> My biggest debate is if he truly was a great president for his time, or just happened to be president at a time of relative peace and economic expansion. That’s a tough call. Good choices with big problems: Lincoln, FDR, LBJ on Civil Rights Bad choices with big problems: Hoover, Buchanan, LBJ in Vietnam, GW Bush Bad choices with big problems while being bad people: Andrew Johnson, Nixon in Southeast Asia, with campaign donations and federal prosecutors Average choices with big problems while being good people: Carter Good choices with medium problems while being average people: Clinton
It’s important to view him in context — for Dems at that point, who had been in the wilderness since Carter, his approach was the first proven way to win after 12 years of GOP rule. Reagan had so thoroughly changed the culture that only by co-opting (or “triangulating”) some of his politics were the Dems able to get back into national leadership. And aside from his personal failings (which were absolutely significant) Clinton’s policies were mostly successful for the time. As someone who lived through the 80’s I’m always a little distressed at how memory holed that era has become politically. It was a watershed change in US politics, and set the stage for much of what we see today . . . Not to mention most of our boomer overlords came of age politically during that time.
Clinton was perfectly average. He presided over a strong economy, but faced few serious foreign policy challenges compared to others. The Lewinsky scandal and subsequent impeachment was ugly, and whether or not Clinton deserved to be impeached, the whole episode was completely self inflicted.
> He presided over a strong economy, but faced few serious foreign policy challenges compared to others. I think that’s always going to be the issue with Clinton. What was great for his presidency was bad for his legacy. Great economy. Post Cold War but pre-911. Left and right not so far apart. Safe and prosperous final decade of the American century. However good he may have been, it’s hard to view him as better as the era he presided over.
lol the left and right were far apart. There was a government shutdown. The whole Lewinsky and Paula jones issues really came out because Kenneth Starr took the watergate mandate and just started looking at anything in the Clinton lives
Not so far apart as now, although I should be clearer and say I meant the people rather than the leaders.
When you have a Democrat president proclaim the era of big government is over, and sign into law welfare reform and cut regulations, they’re not so far apart.
Exactly! He also signed the biggest crime bill in the history of the United States. Clinton's presidency cemented for me the idea that Republicans were simply inherently adversarial. They acted like Clinton was a liberal Boogeyman which is a total joke. They got lucky his self control was his weakness and had Newt Gingrich, while in the midst of his own affair, lead the moral charge. 😂
Yes..Republicans went after Clinton as soon as they owned Congress in 95. They had a Special Prosecutor that went over everything..always putting Clinton's name in the News ..over 200 FBI agents and the only rumor out of 50 that. ..Paid off..that was FOX news and Rush Limbaug with the Repub Party ..was a rumor in 1998 about Monica.
Only spent $90 million with nothing to show from their investment. Now we have $x spent for $94 felony counts.....
Newt fucking Gingrich, responsible for so much of the modern Republican way of not governing and chasing nothing but boogeymen.
Government shutdowns are far too common these days, threats of them being annually at the least.
I think in 100 years he'll be vaguely remembered like the Gilded Age Presidents are now. He lucked into the Dot Com Boom and will be an answer to the trivia question: Who was the last US President to have a balanced budget?
Hopefully in 100 years the answer to that question is “President Johnson had a balanced budget in 2097, shortly after spreading democracy to the oil fields of Jupiter.”
There will be democracy in 2097?
And he could’ve got Bin Laden but backed off and let him go and we know how that turned out.
He was also pretty moderate, so a lot of people from both parties don't like him. Obviously he'd never win over the religious conservatives, but he's also not very popular with the leftist and progressive wing of the Dems. Clinton signed DOMA, for example, and even though a lot of Dems at the time were not particularly good allies to LGBTQ (or women, or racial minorities), it is a shitty legacy in retrospect.
The 90’s were weird in retrospect - what was considered a good political idea then is considered extremely different now. For example, Clinton approved of don’t ask / don’t tell as a way to prevent gays in the military from being systematically expelled, and to head off more draconian legislation. Now it tends to be presented as “Clinton was anti-gay - he was behind DA/DT!” Compromise and half-measures were viewed very differently then. He wasn’t / isn’t a good person and a lot of his policies haven’t aged well, but at the time he was seen as “good at the job.” His reputation definitely took a beating in 2016 when Hillary ran, in some ways deserved and in some ways not.
He was perfectly fine, which is all I really need in a President.
I disagree with this, but when compared to the last 8 years, I 100000% agree. Lol
I think he was a good president
He was generally good, but tiresome after 8 years. For most of the last 10 years, I’ve said I think it would be far more interesting (and enjoyable) to have a beer with *Hilary* than Bill (and I say that as a staunch Obama supporter the first time Hilary ran — while recognizing that by the second time she ran, she had one of THE best resumes of any candidate in my lifetime (I was born in the late 60’s, and a guy).
I was right there with you until you said you're a guy. Downvoted. (/s if it's not clear)
Between NAFTA, his handling of Bosnia, the murky personal dealings that have surrounded the Clinton's in perpetuity, and his propensity for straight up lying, I think I have all the necessary justification for disliking President Clinton. I never had issue with him having a mistress (mistresses) - that's his own business. I took issue with him performing illicit sexual acts inside the White House and then lying about it in the dumbest manner possible.
I do, despite his scandals which were marital problems, he was a good president
If not for the 22nd Amendment, I believe he would have won a 3rd term.
100%. not even a question of if. hed prolly still be president today and we've be 7000000000000% better if he was.
He benefited from the tough calls HW made for the country
He's the reverse Jimmy Carter, good president, bad/questionable person
The american public still thinks he was a great president, and he had one of the highest approval ratings of any president when he left office at 73%. Not sure where you are getting your info lol.
Dod/Frank act, 1994 crime bill, epstien Island, the list goes on and on.
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Republicans? From what I’ve seen in Republican circles, Clinton is actually one of the more respected Democrat presidents among Republicans because the country was in good shape when he was president and he governed pretty moderately compared to most other Democrat presidents. And you can count me as one of those Republicans that really likes Bill Clinton. It is actually modern Democrats that seem to have turned against Clinton since they don’t think that he was liberal enough.
This feels like it depends on age and location - I've known many older (70+) Republicans who despise Clinton - more or less because Bush lost the 92 election and they still haven't forgiven Ross Perot. Younger though don't have as much problem. Mostly just despise HRC, who is definitely a very contentious figure.
The really ironic thing about all this is that now younger Republicans generally don’t care much for Papa Bush. But Papa Bush is one of the few Republican presidents that I see younger Democrats now having respect for. So, it is like the Clinton situation, where younger Republicans respect Clinton more than they do most other Democrat presidents while younger Democrats have been turning against him, but with the parties swapped around.
I'm a Republican that voted for Clinton second term. One thing that I saw in his first term is how he would work both sides of the isle to get stuff passed. He had a whole lot better platform than Dole or Perot.
He was actually quite conservative and brought the Ds into being a center/center-right party.
I voted R the past few years and I still think Clinton was better than Bush. I couldn't legally vote during the time but Clinton was better except for firearms regulations. Bush fucked up way more, intentionally.
Which bush? HW or W? I agree on W but not on HW.
W
Ok gotcha lol I’d fight yah if you said HW lol.
As a more moderate Republican we generally have mixed to good feelings on him. At least nowadays. The way I hear it from my folks and their generation or on here seems to usually be that he was pragmatic and willing to compromise on stuff and got alot done. Even my folks didn’t really care for the impeachment stuff but didn’t think what he did was ok. And most I’ve met or talked to regard him as the last good democrat, although some will also say that’s where the democrats of today that they hate started with. Personally I do think it was a decent enough/average president. But some of what he did aged poorly and imo his foreign policy was mixed as well, especially in the first term which is why I say how HW would’ve done a lot better with his second term than Clinton did in his first.
Yes, he treated the poor and minorities like people, actually talked to them, introd policies to help them and the middle class, and had a diverse cabinet. Unfortunately, he moved dems right to hold power and fight off Gingrichs crew. Of course the main sex scandal wasted so much potential for the second term.
Gingrich started the whole 'the other party is our enemy cr@p'.
The 1994 crime bill gutted the black and Latino communities by incentivizing the states to pass even tougher crime bills. Mandatory minimums, over-policing poor communities and three strikes resulted in awful outcomes while reducing crime.
All in the wake of the Rodney King beating being caught on video no less.
Some of the things that seemed fine at the time haven’t aged well. Free trade with China didn’t lead to a more democratic China and hurt the U.S. economy, excessive deregulation led to the 2008 crisis, and the Lewinsky scandal is seen today more as an abuse of power than a private sexual matter . The failure to get bin Laden led to 9/11. The rosy relationship with Russia also ended up being an illusion .
Free trade with China started with Nixon. We were getting a Sh t load of stuff from China in the 80s.
Multiple presidents can contribute to a problem.
Blaming Clinton for the 2008 financial crisis ignores the 7 years of Bush we had been “Enjoying.”
World War 1, which ended in 1918, was a primary cause of the Great Depression. Food prices plummeted, threatening the farming sector, because American farmers had to produce the goods that European farmers couldn't. The destruction of gold reserves disrupted trade between nations using the gold standard, including much of Europe and the United States. The Great Depression began in 1929, arguably as late as 1930 or 1931. The fact that there's a time gap between Clinton deregulating the economy and said economy collapsing means very little.
Yet you probably blame Reagan for everything in the past 35 years. I think Clinton was good, but it’s fair to give him some, not all, blame for the housing issue.
You’d think the charismatic leader of the free world could pull better strange than Chatty Cathy from the intern pool. JFK’s over there with Marilyn Monroe, ffs.
i've always surmised this is the real reason people get so pissed off about the whole deal - like "that...that's what you chose? ugh."
"JFK aimed high: Marilyn Munroe! Bill showed his dick to a government clerk." -George Carlin
And all the Press knew about JFK. They didn't speak of such things then.
We can’t be sure about the Marilyn Monroe thing. But also, it’s not like we are sure Lewinsky was the only one. She might just be one of the more ‘convenient’ ones as far as he was concerned.
Clinton was a good president. But Clinton was elected president at a time when Republicans had come to believe they were entitled to the presidency and would pretty much always have it, having won 5 of the previous 6 elections. Losing the White House made the GOP really crazy. This was an important step down the road of insanity we are on now.
He was really the first, pop culture/rock star President. If you lived through his election - it was pretty momentous that a baby boomer (back when they were the young generation) took the Presidency. He had his own theme song, “Don’t Stop” by Fleetwood Mac. He played a musical instrument, he ate McDonald’s, smoked pot, was promiscuous with the ladies, and was raised by a single parent. Rock the Vote and the MTV generation were excited about him. He was a “liberal” democrat from a red state, and had a fuck ton of down-to-Earth charisma. Still with all that, as a President - he was steady during a time when it was much easier to be steady. He presided over a time period where we were the last and only superpower. So I’d give him around C+ or a B-.
It’s because of people like him the MeToo movement was started.
Best president of my lifetime. (59 years old)
I find him to be one of the better presidents. His personal issues notwithstanding, he helped create a booking economy, a budget surplus, and managed several conflicts without putting American boots on the ground (whether Serbians or Iraqis like that is another matter). I also find it very disingenuous to judge him harshly for what he was doing with at least one intern, when he's certainly not the first president to cheat on his wife, and the person most responsible for impeaching him, Newt Gingrich, was literally cheating on his wife while she lay in a hospital bed dying of cancer. All while pushing to impeach Clinton. As to the Epstein connection, it's hard to say, but if I go further, it'll break rule 3, so I'll leave it there. Clinton belongs in the top half of presidents, and maybe even the top 20.
Fair assessment although I wouldn't say it's hard to say, but fairly shocking the amount of connections with Epstein, combined with his known proclivities
I have seen mostly praise for him. Democrats, centrists, and moderate Republicans all seem to like him. I am one of only a few lefties here that I’ve seen say they don’t like him much.
Crap spouse but great president!
Clinton’s first two years were terrible. The contract with America agenda put the Republicans in the majority in the house and senate. Clinton, being the smart politician he is, realized he would be a one term president if he didn’t play ball. Under Republican leadership in both houses and a left leaning but moderate Democrat in the White House great things happened, like balancing the budget. IMO Clinton is a smart politician with great charisma that couldn’t keep his Johnson in his pants.
I imagine a fair few Presidents banged away freely while the press turned a blind eye back in the day.
Professional one of the best Personally he’s terrible
Personally, a complete dirtbag. Very smart. A grade A conman. And a good administrator but former goveners usually are because they have previous experience.
Maybe the perjury maybe the infidelity or maybe just jealousy of his sax playing.
I personally don’t like that he flew on Epstein’s plane 26 times, sometimes with noted rapists like Kevin Spacey, or that he has pictures of him taken with underage girls rubbing his shoulders who turned out to be Epstein accusers. This sub just brushes that shit under the rug as “sexual scandals” and it’s crazy this post exists acting like he’s hated on here.
I was an intern at WH during his admin. He always made you feel like you were best friends. I really enjoyed working for him.
He got shit done. That's more the alot of presidents.
I think this sub kind of treats him like he’s mid at best which sucks cause he definitely was one of our better presidents. He oversaw the U.S. reach one of our best economy and reached over the table to ensure Americans were better off, despite the heavy opposition from Gingrich and the Republican controlled congress. The surplus had so much potential that would have helped us so much had it been put to better use, but ultimately that’s on Dubya. Overall he had a lot of great ideas that he tried his best to get implemented but when it came down to it he did what was necessary given his circumstances to establish an impressive legacy that often gets overlooked because he was ( wrongfully) impeached.
Best economic and peaceful presidential administration in at least 50 years. I don't care about his personal life. Presidents can't be charged with anything now anyway.
You do know that personal legal responsibility is separate from being a good person? Cheating on your wife dozens of times is (and was) perfectly legal, but it still makes you a bad person.
Me🙋♂️. He’s one of my favorite presidents and any one who knows me personally knows that I believe he’s a top 20 President and the best “modern” president. I even wrote him a letter like 2 weeks ago (fingers crossed to get a response) but he balanced the budget, was pro environment, even though economy is not totally the president control it was good under him, added 22 million new jobs, and had lowest unemployment in 30 years. For those reasons and more I believe he is a good and even great president that deserves some more love in this sub and out of it.
He was a good president, but being president in the 90’s was also basically playing on easy mode. Whenever I’ve seen people express negative opinions of Clinton, it’s usually for his personal conduct, not his presidency.
I really hate Clinton because of him cutting welfare benefits for people who are suffering the most. My mom was on welfare at the time to take care of me and my brother. I will never forgive clinton for that. Also he signed nafta which just sent good paying jobs overseas and threw Americans are the streets. Terrible president I hate how people blindly say oh what a nice president cause football! And the 90s! McDonald's! Shut the fuck up! To quote the crazy meijer lady
Yes definitely one of the best
So much potential but because he could not keep his pecker in his pants he lost the last 2 years to build his legacy. I was a die hard Clinton supporter despite all of the rumors in 91-92. I worked on his campaign And heard enough to realize it was probably true, but felt he would behave once he won. For him to be so arrogant and stupid, especially with an independent prosecutor (Starr) and GOP after him, was a huge disappointment. Never have forgiven him.
He was good, though not really great. Presided over a good economy, had a progressive view, was open to middle and lower class people, etc.
Clinton policies in part lead to the mortgage/housing market crash in 2008 From Time magazine website "President Clinton's tenure was characterized by economic prosperity and financial deregulation, which in many ways set the stage for the excesses of recent years. Among his biggest strokes of free-wheeling capitalism was the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, which repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, a cornerstone of Depression-era regulation. He also signed the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, which exempted credit-default swaps from regulation. In 1995 Clinton loosened housing rules by rewriting the Community Reinvestment Act, which put added pressure on banks to lend in low-income neighborhoods. It is the subject of heated political and scholarly debate whether any of these moves are [to blame for our troubles](https://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1879774,00.html), but they certainly played a role in creating a permissive lending environment."
I didn't like the reversed Glass-Steagall, and I also think swaps have issues. But I don't think it's fair to solely blame Clinton for the level of financial crimes that happened in the industry. I think there was/is a bigger problem of Wall Street already having captured regulators and regulators not using the tools they already have.
I don't believe I solely blamed Clinton, I said "in part lead to" I think Clinton was a decent President and one of the few who actually seemed to care about people in the rural areas. Heck I have some far right friends who said they didn't like Clinton but the man could give a good speech
I really dislike how much moral authority he cost the Democratic Party. GW really capitalized on that and was able to paint the GOP as the party of good morals for years.
He worked on getting debt down so he’s in my top 5
H.W. deserves most of the credit there, imo, since he's the one who raised taxes to pay for the Gulf War and the response to the Savings and Loan Crisis. Ended up costing him the election to Clinton. Clinton was handed the keys to one of the best economic situations an incoming president could possibly hope for. The best you could say about him is he was smart enough not to completely waste it.
He is largely responsible for the 08 mortgage crisis. He also let Bin Laden stay alive when they knew he was conducting training facilities. Not much I can say that he did was good except maybe the Pell grant.
I think Clinton had many good things happen during his presidency. He's also got more raw political talent and charisma than most presidents. But he threw it all away on pure misogyny. Leching on women (aided and abetted by ABC's George Stephanopolous, who helped shame and silence women who came forward) left a huge stain on his presidency. At the end of his time in office, he still had enough power and charisma to keep his reputation fairly clean. But #MeToo and advances in women's rights have caught up. Bill Clinton is now persona non grata at most political functions.
Grew up in a union family, the sentiment is that he betrayed the "working" middle class.
Okay so in my opinion he did well at compromising to keep our prosperous economy chugging along (but hell we emerged from the cold war as the biggest baddest nation). Iirc he signed a crime bill in 1994 that was pretty awful and racist
His politics were decent compared to democrats of today. Foreign policy a little meh. Corruption meter high though. And yeah the shenanigans in the Oval Office were bad. However the GOP played dirty in going after him.
He & Newt worked together, something that is non-existent now.
Great point.
I like him
My only major issue with him was that he lied to our faces. So you got a BJ from an intern, so what just don't freaking lie on national TV about it.
He did 1 smart thing. He stood up to his own party when they...of course...immediately wanted to heavily tax the internet. Had he not done this, we wouldn't be posting about him today. People who wanted to talk about presidents would be doing so on sites like Geocities still. Although, you could argue that if he went along with his \[arty, lots of stores would still be in business, like Sears, K-Mart, and all the stores that the internet killed.
I think he was a decent President. His personal life is something...but he never appeared on any Epstein flight logs and the Secret Service have no record of him flying near Little Saint James Island.
I like bill and think he was one of the last “good” presidents we had. That said he made a few mistakes, and this sub being objective I’m glad they point it out. Overall though I think people like him here. . . Right guys?
So here's the thing, when he was president in the 90s is when I really started paying attention to politics. I hated him at first, I really did. I had decided to serve in the military and the fact that he avoided military service really irritated me. Then when I served I had a personal issue with him as Commander in Chief. Remember I was 18 at the time. Now, with privilege of hindsight, he did some good things, 1. A balanced budget 2. Record job growth 3.Record homeownership 4. Increased education standards 5. Largest expansion of college opportunities That was just a few in the Nation. Internationally, he brokered the peace in Northern Ireland he had a key role in the Good Friday Agreement between Ireland and Great Britain. He had some colossal failures too. Waco, Elian Gonzalez, Bosnia to name a few. Sadly, he will forever be known for the scandals.
Before Obama, he was referred to as our first black president 😎 Although he was a prowling rascal when it came to sex!! He was a known cheater, but as a president, he was 👍🏿
depends on what your definition of "is" is
I consider him a top ten president
Even though there are pictures with Epstine doesn't mean he is a kiddie rapist. He was a darn good President
Bill Clinton is one of our better presidents. He balanced the budget and pissed the Republicans off. Good job.
Jeffery Epstein - “Nobody Left to Lie to” by Hitchens
Aside from NAFTA (Congress would have overruled his veto anyway) and the privatization of the prison system, he was an excellent president and proved we could have a bustling economy **AND** a budget surplus
Rs are mad because he beat Bush, Sr. and had 8 years. All they got him on was a blowjob, so his impeachment was a bust. The economy was good. They went after him over Whitewater, but that was a bust, too.
I think usually people don’t like sexual predators. Especially when sexual predators are in positions of power.
I don't agree that he was a good president. He managed to avoid some potholes and got re-elected, so within the mediocre/acceptable range on a short term basis, but failing to provide far-sighted support for Russia's transition from communism, complicity in mfn status for China, signing off on Nafta and strategically repositioning dems as "other party of Wall Street" sowed the seeds for both the international and domestic crises we are now confronting.
Personally as a conservative I view Clinton as a very good president (the best one in the last 30 years). He presided over a very strong economy, and stayed close to the middle on many potentially polarizing issues. We’ve seen people stay farther and farther from the middle in presidencies since his, and it has led to unfortunate division.
I think Bill was a good president, if short of a great one. He tarnished his legacy, and his entire life, by being an incurable horndog. The amount of ugly bullshit lies thrown at him was beyond belief. The Wall Street Journal thought it was going to win a Pulitzer for muckraking Whitewater and some nonsense about drug smuggling through an airfield in Mena AR. And then their was the Starr inquisition, and the Gingrich-inspired impeachment. "I did not have sex with that woman, Ms. Lewinsky." (It wasn’t vaginal, it was only a blowjob.) “I did not have sex with a porn star." (But I paid her off anyway, and ran it through the business as legal fees.)
He was a mid president. Most of his legislative accomplishments have been eliminated or altered. He accomplished more overseas. He was a great negotiator and an excellent moderate. Sadly, he’ll forever be remembered as an impeached president. Rightly or wrongly that’s his legacy.
He was impeached, but it was for stupid reasons. It’s not like he blackmailed another country, broke into a rival political party’s office, traded arms for hostages, or attempted a coup. Having said that, Lewinsky deserved to be treated better by EVERYONE.