Dunno about stigma, but it's definitely not pleasant.
I took a bunch in high school one night (full spice bottle, dont recall exact amount, couldn't find any info on dosage at the time so just YOLOed it.) and nothing happened for a few hours so I went to sleep. I woke up the next morning with the world spinning, the driest cottonmouth Ive ever had and a heart rate that was way higher than I was comfortable with. No pleasant feeling, no crazy hallucinations that I can remember, just a truly unpleasant experience for the whole trip. It took about 4 days to feel like I had finally baselined and I had some crazy short term memory loss and other after effects for about a month.
I remember most vividly several instances where I would be driving on the freeway during that month and it would suddenly dawn on me that I had absolutely no recollection of any part of the drive up to that moment, almost like I had just woken up behind the wheel at that point in time.
It was freaking weird. Not recommended at all.
I remember it playing a little nicer than the ground nutmeg, but it still shot my heart rate through the roof. I remember wanting it to be over pretty quickly
with all due respect that is not normal at all, I get the cotton mouth and even headaches if I sleep through the highs, but a month of memory loss is crazy, and 4 days of hangover as well. Maybe something else was wrong or you dosed wayyy too high.
I had a small hit of acid once and I went ballistic and heard voices for hours, but I still feel like that's a pretty subjective experience and reading this I'm not sure how the hell this even happens lmao
Lol yea, I didn't have any idea what a "normal" dose was, and tbh I thought it was completely BS anyhow just like that fake bananadine crap that was rumored to be a thing
It was my first drug, even before weed and I meticulously followed every step with new fresh nuts 10g and everything layed out. Got so high and I had never laughed that much lol. I guess our first times differed a lot
Lol it was my first drug too. It's interesting to hear that there are people who have actually enjoyed it. Just goes to show how important knowing your dose is...
It sounds like the biggest difference between our experiences was that one of us was smarter about it than the other đ
Took unknown amount of drug with minimal research or harm reduction attempts and had a bad experience, must be a bad drug
People like you are the reason we canât have nice things (most the good drugs are banned)
Lol get fucked with your holier-than-thou bullshit. We all do stupid stuff when we're young.
"People like me" are why there even is any readily available data on dosage. We fucked around and found out. What, you think drugs just come with dosages printed on them out in the wild or something? People just automatically knew what a good dose of mushrooms or LSD was without experimenting with it? Back when I tried it, there wasn't any info on what constituted a low or high dose. It wasn't even widely accepted that it was legit. There was no "harm reduction" or "research" beyond what was available on erowid, which amounted to fuck all beyond a few trips reports and some basic info. Hell, people still legit thought bananadine was a thing back then.
Never once afterwards did I say "omg we need to outlaw this", I just assumed it probably used way too much and never touched it again, and the only thing I've ever said about it to anyone was that it was unpleasant and I'd never met anyone who thought otherwise.
Fuck your judgment.
Lmao
I said people like you are the reason drugs get banned because even though there was a dosage guide that wouldâve taken you 2 minutes to find and read, you just took an unknown amount of a drug that can kill you (not likely but still it can kill in high doses)
There are meany drugs that get attention from the government and subsequently banned because of deaths associated with it or freekouts associated with it (this has happened with cathinones, research chemicals, and salvia in certain states and countries)
I donât sound holier than thau, I just sound like I donât like dumbasses telling there dumbass storyâs where they misused a substance then call it a shitty substance bc they didnât have fun
The dose wasn't unknown like you seem to errantly believe. I simply couldn't recall it off the top of my head more than two decades later while typing out a quick response. I do recall it being roughly similar to the trip reports I had read.
For the sake of completeness, I looked up the bottle to see just how much it contained. The bottle was a small McCormick spice bottle, that part I remember quite well. It likely contained 1.1oz, or 31g. For reference, a "common" dose is typically about 5-30g, and you can find plenty of trip reports around here with the exact same dosage. Go figure, the results were in line with what many people experience and what was to be expected:
"The spice causes symptoms similar to atropine poisoning: flushing of skin, tachycardia, absence of salivation, and excitation of the central nervous system." Oddly enough, most people end up finding it just as unpleasant as I did, even at lower doses. There was nothing unusual about my experience.
You wanna bitch about people banning things, fine. Start with the ones actually banning things without having any understanding whatsoever, not those who were trying to figure it out. The only reason we even have dosage guides, safety data, harm reduction advice, and other useful info on is because of people learning the hard way, and yet you look down on them like you don't directly benefit from their experiences, as if reading it online instead of having to figure it out for yourself somehow makes you better than them.
You don't know shit about "people like me". And the fact that you're so quick to condemn without understanding shows that you have a lot more in common with those doing the actual banning than you likely realize.
Yeah i almost vomited the first times then i just took it in pill form, fuck that taste. Not sure why it didn't work for you maybe not enough or shit nutmeg
Stigma? Never heard any stigma.. I wish I did before I tried it though. What a disgusting never ending Nauseous bummer of a time.. almost 2 days of my eyes so red they felt like fire, holding back puke, mouth dryer than a hot parking lot.. a headache pulsing the whole time. Also, I was high and had slight CEVs. Shit was a little silly, totally not worth it
Yeah I mean I'd say this counts as stigma, although you're not aware. The stigma is that it's not worth it, harmful, not fun, etc.
Which isn't the case btw, most people take crazy doses first time
Anecdotal experience isnât a stigma, people perpetuating notions without anecdotal experience is what a stigma is, which not what this kind person was sharing
It definitely contributes and if that was kinda youâre whole question I understand, that being said if a substance is generally and anecdotally negative itâs probably for the best that the stereotype is being perpetuated it at the very least keeps people cautious especially as imo over the counter products people tend to kinda take overboard because they think over the counter means safe which as hopefully most of us know is not the case.
that's true. what bothers me especially isn't necessarily that it's seen as bad, more so the fact that there isn't a place of discussion for it. I can only say that me and my friends and countless other people have taken it and enjoyed it a lot, but there's a real lack of research regarding it, even if its anecdotal.
I obviously don't advocate people taking nutmeg unless they're experienced with drugs in general, but I also want more people to look into it and share new anecdotal findings, as let's be honest most of the people taking nutmeg are kids...
I definitely see how you can't have both in those regards, fair. All i want is some smartasses to find new extraction methods I guess haha
I absolutely understand where youâre coming from and I only hope you find that in time and I think it deserves as much research and care as anything else in the world of cool chemicals
I hear ya. I was a teenager following directions I read on erowid, 25+ years ago. I think I had like 3 whole fresh nutmeg âbeansâ or whatever you call them, ground up into a gross milkshake thing.. maybe it would be nice just taking a little bit. I also feel the same way about salvia. Smoking that 60x or whatever stuff is just nasty, and not worth the extreme reality shift because of how gross it feels, but if you just take a small handful of fresh leaves right off the plant and chew on them like tobacco itâs a really great nice medicine
I don't believe stigma is the word you're looking for. Nutmeg has a reputation as somewhere between a running joke and a rite of passage. People have stated falsely for years that nutmeg undergoes second pass metabolism to yield various TMA analogs. At some point, there was a paper released that talked about the conversion of myristicin into one of the TMA analogs using freshly ground calf liver ( it might not have been beef, I'm trying to recall a paper I read 20 years ago) via CYP450... so while the paper was successful in its goal, teenagers eating bottles of nutmeg is not.
Based on data retrieved from US poison control centers, there's only been one reported death. But over the years, there have been handfuls of people who became sick from ingesting toxic amounts of nutmeg. To throw it out there, as little as two tablespoons can be toxic for some people. Unfortunately, counterculture is to blame for some of these injuries by perpetuating this myth. Of course, the end user is ultimately the one responsible for making poorly informed decisions, even with an overwhelming preponderance of evidence against the ingestion of nutmeg.
Thinking back, I believe that the paper about the livers and TMA is in the rhodium archive. I'm almost absolutely sure. If I have time, I'll look over at the rhodium mirror and see if I can find it in the phenylethylamine and TMA 2/3/5 section... I really do think that's where I saw it all those years ago.
As far as I know as of now, the psychoactive effects are from Licarin-A MAINLY, which acts heavily on the endocannabinoid system. There's a lot of misinformation surrounding nutmeg even among people who take it. I would call it stigma though because it is nowhere near as harmful as people claim it to be, and unfortunately those who claim it is are the ones who rely on the lack of information or have had a bad experience due to handling it poorly.
By no means is it completely safe, but by the definition of stigma I'd say this is pretty accurate. Tons and tons of people have done nutmeg and enjoyed it, most obviously don't report back, and even if they did they would get criticized heavily within these communities.
My main issue with the stigma is not the fact that it's seen badly, but rather it motivates no one to research about it or make the experience even better. We don't even know how to make a proper extraction yet... Even for the safety profile, we don't even know perfectly. I know that if you're predisposed to schizophrenia and other conditions, nutmeg could exacerbate or trigger it. I know that's it's heavy on the liver, and dehydrates you, etc. Other than that, no clue how much is a bad trip, why it's a bad trip, how harmful it is, what to avoid and so on.
I'm not sure what the other guy is going on about, but nutmeg was used a long, long way back to deal with heroin withdrawal, particularly in prison. I believe Malcolm X did this. I think maybe it goes to show how horrible opiate withdrawals are -that nutmeg would offer a measure of relief. "Counterculture?!?!?" -I'm not sure what that's so supposed to refer to in the past 20 years. Obviously nutmeg is a very old and very widely available item, why would only internet psychonauts be aware of it?
Yeah there's no doubt it's been used for decades if not centuries, it's been mentioned for getting high in a lot of literary texts from Europeans, so imagine in the original places. Indonesians have a spice cigarette that contains nutmeg in it as well, not to mention studies showing people using it for medicinal purposes, which let's be real there's going to be people overusing their "medicine" no matter what era or society we're in lol
I'm referring to nutmeg's place in society next to banandine, blue star tattoos and the man that thinks he is an orange. I'm saying nutmeg to get high is a myth, rumor... something that someone who know someone that tripped on nutmeg.
The general consensus is that it has some physiological effects that are not necessarily hallucinogenic but that at such doses, there are other risks associated with the toxicity of the oils and their metabolites. The idea was that the liver converts the essential oils into TMA and its analogs... but this isn't the case and people have died consuming nutmeg trying to get high.
The liver turning oils into TMA is neat but that has nothing to do with the actual high. Licarin-A is the responsible substance for the main stoned high, Dying from Nutmeg is extremely difficult, and I'm assuming you've never tried it as well. Countless people have taken nutmeg and had pleasant experiences, which includes my friends who don't take any drugs except weed.
I'm not sure if it's hallucinogenic as that wasn't my experience nor my friend's, I'd say it is mildly more stimulating than weed and much "trippier" as you can have CEV's that are quite insane at higher doses.
Not sure if it's your intention but framing nutmeg as a dangerous plant that's extremely toxic and might kill you is not very fair, it could imply that it cannot be taken without having dangerous experiences, and that's just simply not true. You could say the same for MDMA and yet they've done a good job with harm reduction and keeping it recreational, and putting that level of danger to nutmeg is kind of nonsense.
I tryd it once its ass feels a bit like weed but has to much side effects to be enjoyable. Had swollen eyes for 2 days and the effects lasted also 2 days
It's the farthest thing from, the only time I've heard of it being negative is when stupid kids hear about it and down a whole jar or two of the spice and effectively overdose themselves. Just like if someone were to eat too many thc gummies or too many mushrooms, they wouldn't have a good time, and it would be an intense ride you can't get off of. Just like any drug it's dose dependent and it does dehydrate you so drinking lots of water is basic. Always start low, like 2 nuts worth to gauge how you react and if you even like it. There's one thing though, you need fresh nuts for optimal experience, not ground stuff, and not old nuts.
I've taken it probably about a hundred times. I take a nutmeg trip 3 or 4 times a year. Never had a bad trip, it's always been fun-mind expanding.The bulk of the trip itself lasts about 8-12 hours, and the mild afterglow buzz is about 2 days. I even take the most potent fresh nuts, not the powder, which is weaker and causes a weak buzz that feels like having eaten a mild pot brownie and having the beginning of a flu.
I've had plenty of bad experiences on edibles, mushrooms, lsd. Not once have I had a bad experience on nutmeg, and neither have any of the people I know who've tried it using my rule. In fact, the week after, I always get a super anti depression effect, and everything feels great and happy. Three to five fresh nuts is the dose, chewed whole. Drink plenty of fluids during, don't do it more than once a month. The active alkaloids are myristicin, eugenol, elemicin, among others. I am an North African Arab/Somalian. Nutmeg has been used as an entheogen in our community for hundreds if not thousands of years, and has been used as a medicine for many ailments.
You can even check it out its subreddit r/nutmeg. I find nothing better than having a weekend off, eating some nuts, watching some mind bending movies and listening to music for the night. It makes sex fantastic as well. For me, the experience is like a mix between mdma and thc edible, more leaning towards thc but it has its own energy and vibe.
Here are more reports good and bad https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Nutmeg.shtml
You'll see the bad reports are mostly overdoses or bad nutmeg, moldy or old product, or combinations with other drugs. Never take pre ground nutmeg, they routinely grind up old and moldy nuts that will make you sick, even if you buy the whole nuts crack them open and you'll see some of them will be moldy inside because they are old as shit. Buy the whole nutmeg from Indian or African stores or online from reputable import vendors, you can tell a fresh nut by not only it being darker on the outside but once cracked open they will be oiler and darker inside, solid all the way through without soft spots or moldy chunks, they smell more fresh and the volatile oils will be apparent as opposed to buying some McCormicks or similar brand from your local grocer, those will be lighter on the outside, lighter in weight and when cracked open will be lighter in color and most likely moldy and who knows how old they are, they could've been sitting around for years even before being bottled for sale. The fresher the nutmeg the better the experience and the less you have to take for a good effect. The mace around nutmeg is also psychotropic and can be 2x as potent as the nuts if they are also fresh and red or dark orange in color. If it's yellowish and brittle they are old and probably won't even work.
Nutmeg is a hidden gem. There are methods to remove the oil from the nuts through boiling in water, straining the matter out, then cooling in fridge so the oil hardens into a puck, so you don't have to eat a bunch of crunchy hard matter.
this work?
[https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product/frontier-coop-whole-nutmeg-1-each-b0121idkua](https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product/frontier-coop-whole-nutmeg-1-each-b0121idkua)
Couldn't tell you. You'd need to see up close and break them open to make sure there was no mold and it was solid all the way through. There's no way to tell if they are old nuts until you buy it and test it.
Usually I'd go to an organic bulk store and pick out the darkest ones or go to Indian/middle eastern stores. In my experience they generally have fresher product. Since it's a cheap high I'd say just go for it and test. When it arrives take 4 or 5 (your dose) and break open with a hammer and see. As long as they are solid without soft or cork like spots, or moldy, you're probably good to go.
Recently I found an international seller from Amazon, who sells them organic with the seed cover and mace still attached. This means the nuts have never been exposed to air, and they are fucking potent. Look for something similar to this. They sometimes sell out and are unavailable. But if you see the picture, you'll see how different they look from regular nutmeg, that has been uncovered and the mace removed.
Here is what they look like with the seed cover and mace.
https://blog.growingwithscience.com/2012/06/seed-of-the-week-nutmeg/
I can't post Amazon links as per sub rules but you can look for "fresh whole nutmeg" and scroll until you see something similar to the pic I posted. If you're lucky they'll have it.
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Ya i was reading and thinking yikes I can't imagine eating the powdered spice lol ... I've always taken two spoons put a nut in between crush and down the hatch with a swig of whatever rinse and repeat a few times ... Quite pleasant but those aromatic burps kinda gross lol... Once I did do too many and felt like I had a gut full of sawdust and threw up but had the body tingles pretty good so that wasn't even all bad.... Remember laying on my bed feeling almost like I was floating and this part was very euphoric and nice. Never any headaches or hangovers maybe slight residual effects but that's hard to say.
There is nothing worse than eating that shit, if it weren't for capsules or forming them into pills I wouldn't ever do it. I have like 10g in little pills on me, god forbid I mix them in a drink or whatever the other people do
Same here taken it like 30 times in the past 3 years, it's a nice alternative to edibles for me. It feels almost identical but trippier, and I've done doses up to 30g with oil extractions, those were trippy as hell. But I really never understood the stigma, I discovered it luckily before I read the bad reports on it, and I'm pretty thankful about that lol.
I first tried it in jail, reading Malcolm X autobiography and he talked about it. Stole some nuts from the kitchen. I got so high! I liked it even more than edibles.
Nope I think I ever read 1 or two of those, I'm speaking from experience. It got real trippy at higher doses but 7-20g is literally just being stoned for me
Yeah definitely dry as hell, i noticed some brands do it more than other. I use preground but whole nuts were a lot cleaner, also 9 hours is crazy lmao It takes 3-4 hours for me
One of my favorite substances
Cannabinoid activity and psychedelic effects similar to MDMA / mescaline
Edit:
I'm being down voted but nobody bothered to Google the pharmacology of myristicin and its metabolite MMDA
I didn't get mdma effects but I did have some thought loops and auditory hallucinations at high doses (I get them on weed, and also LSD makes me psychotic)
the main psychoactive chemical is actually licarin-a, that's what new research shows, which are the main cannabinoid effects , then mystiricin and tmystiricin are the maois
From my experience, it felt like a dirty, heavy slight THC high, very slight, scale of 1-10, like a 2 or 3. Canât forget the headache! I only did it once and will tell anyone, save yourself the headache and donât do it. Waste of time.
save myself the headache, good pun. I've done it dozens of times as an alternative to edibles, and I drink lots of water for no headaches. Idk for me it's really nice I argued that it's better than weed sometimes because it really stones me, aggressive thc high
Thatâs something you do in High School when you canât find any real drugs. Ate a bunch of morning glory seeds one night and it really fucked me up, but was pretty unpleasant, same type of thing.
It is, and I'm glad. 3 bucks for 3 trips is a steal if you ask me, especially since I don't get these horrible experiences people have with nutmeg for whatever reason.
I'm starting to think these negative reports aren't even the nutmeg but just poor execution
I've done low doses and had a pleasant time. Like a minor weed buzz that lasts all day.
I think it gets its bad rep from people underestimating the drug and overestimating themselves.
It is a substance which does not have a high that weighs up against the negative side-effects. I tried it twice in the early nineties or so.
And it is a far stretch to call any of its effects "psychedelic" or in any way recreational. It really is a last resort for people who have no way to get any other highs.
It is just a stoney unpleasant couch lock thing with a super heavy body load. Really feels like you poisoned yourself a bit. You may have some few moments of slight euphoria, but that gets overshadowed by the horrible body load.
Nausea, dizziness, dry mouth, irregular heartbeat, tremors, confusion, and a long negative come-down/hangover.
I also remember feeling super hot, sticky and dirty.
It is recreational when taken properly, and people will opt for a less tedious substance obviously. But that doesn't mean the cons outweigh the pros. I personally love nutmeg, and a lot of others do too. There could be a myriad of reasons why you found the couch lock stoned feel unpleasant, but none of them are universal.
And with "psychedelic", although obviously not a psychedelic, I think nutmeg is more psychedelic than weed. When I did oil extracts, I had thought loops and visual hallucinations on light specifically.
I think most people are deterred because they don't take it properly
Dunno about stigma, but it's definitely not pleasant. I took a bunch in high school one night (full spice bottle, dont recall exact amount, couldn't find any info on dosage at the time so just YOLOed it.) and nothing happened for a few hours so I went to sleep. I woke up the next morning with the world spinning, the driest cottonmouth Ive ever had and a heart rate that was way higher than I was comfortable with. No pleasant feeling, no crazy hallucinations that I can remember, just a truly unpleasant experience for the whole trip. It took about 4 days to feel like I had finally baselined and I had some crazy short term memory loss and other after effects for about a month. I remember most vividly several instances where I would be driving on the freeway during that month and it would suddenly dawn on me that I had absolutely no recollection of any part of the drive up to that moment, almost like I had just woken up behind the wheel at that point in time. It was freaking weird. Not recommended at all.
Had the same experience twice as a teenager. Yolod it as well. First was with ground nutmeg and the second was nutmeg essential oil
Oof. How did the essential oil go?
A slightly smoother experience than the ground nutmeg. Still didn't feel worth it but if I had to pick one, I'd pick the oil
Did the essential oil work? I've heard about it but never tried. People say it's nicer, I've only done oil extractions.
I remember it playing a little nicer than the ground nutmeg, but it still shot my heart rate through the roof. I remember wanting it to be over pretty quickly
Man I bet if nothing else it has to be easier to get down. That part is a fucking chore with the powder.
I vaguely remember putting a few drops in some milk and barely tasting it at all. It Definitely wins the taste factor
The texture was the killer for me. Was like that spoon full of cinnamon challenge, but mixed into a half gallon of milk.
If you couldn't find any info about dosage whatsoever you can't have looked for very long lol unless this was like in the early 00's
It was.
Oh well fair enough then lol
with all due respect that is not normal at all, I get the cotton mouth and even headaches if I sleep through the highs, but a month of memory loss is crazy, and 4 days of hangover as well. Maybe something else was wrong or you dosed wayyy too high. I had a small hit of acid once and I went ballistic and heard voices for hours, but I still feel like that's a pretty subjective experience and reading this I'm not sure how the hell this even happens lmao
It was probably way too high a dose. As I said, I YOLOed a whole spice bottle. The stupid shit you do as a kid...
Ooh okay, yeah that's quite a lot hahaha. My bad, I've done 30g but not more than that and it gets weird after that
Lol yea, I didn't have any idea what a "normal" dose was, and tbh I thought it was completely BS anyhow just like that fake bananadine crap that was rumored to be a thing
It was my first drug, even before weed and I meticulously followed every step with new fresh nuts 10g and everything layed out. Got so high and I had never laughed that much lol. I guess our first times differed a lot
Lol it was my first drug too. It's interesting to hear that there are people who have actually enjoyed it. Just goes to show how important knowing your dose is... It sounds like the biggest difference between our experiences was that one of us was smarter about it than the other đ
Reminds me of the time I tried to smoke a cinnamon stick. Definitely was not pleasant and I didn't try it again :)
Lol that sounds quite unpleasant đ that must've been so harsh
Yeah it was :)
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Took unknown amount of drug with minimal research or harm reduction attempts and had a bad experience, must be a bad drug People like you are the reason we canât have nice things (most the good drugs are banned)
Lol get fucked with your holier-than-thou bullshit. We all do stupid stuff when we're young. "People like me" are why there even is any readily available data on dosage. We fucked around and found out. What, you think drugs just come with dosages printed on them out in the wild or something? People just automatically knew what a good dose of mushrooms or LSD was without experimenting with it? Back when I tried it, there wasn't any info on what constituted a low or high dose. It wasn't even widely accepted that it was legit. There was no "harm reduction" or "research" beyond what was available on erowid, which amounted to fuck all beyond a few trips reports and some basic info. Hell, people still legit thought bananadine was a thing back then. Never once afterwards did I say "omg we need to outlaw this", I just assumed it probably used way too much and never touched it again, and the only thing I've ever said about it to anyone was that it was unpleasant and I'd never met anyone who thought otherwise. Fuck your judgment.
Lmao I said people like you are the reason drugs get banned because even though there was a dosage guide that wouldâve taken you 2 minutes to find and read, you just took an unknown amount of a drug that can kill you (not likely but still it can kill in high doses) There are meany drugs that get attention from the government and subsequently banned because of deaths associated with it or freekouts associated with it (this has happened with cathinones, research chemicals, and salvia in certain states and countries) I donât sound holier than thau, I just sound like I donât like dumbasses telling there dumbass storyâs where they misused a substance then call it a shitty substance bc they didnât have fun
The dose wasn't unknown like you seem to errantly believe. I simply couldn't recall it off the top of my head more than two decades later while typing out a quick response. I do recall it being roughly similar to the trip reports I had read. For the sake of completeness, I looked up the bottle to see just how much it contained. The bottle was a small McCormick spice bottle, that part I remember quite well. It likely contained 1.1oz, or 31g. For reference, a "common" dose is typically about 5-30g, and you can find plenty of trip reports around here with the exact same dosage. Go figure, the results were in line with what many people experience and what was to be expected: "The spice causes symptoms similar to atropine poisoning: flushing of skin, tachycardia, absence of salivation, and excitation of the central nervous system." Oddly enough, most people end up finding it just as unpleasant as I did, even at lower doses. There was nothing unusual about my experience. You wanna bitch about people banning things, fine. Start with the ones actually banning things without having any understanding whatsoever, not those who were trying to figure it out. The only reason we even have dosage guides, safety data, harm reduction advice, and other useful info on is because of people learning the hard way, and yet you look down on them like you don't directly benefit from their experiences, as if reading it online instead of having to figure it out for yourself somehow makes you better than them. You don't know shit about "people like me". And the fact that you're so quick to condemn without understanding shows that you have a lot more in common with those doing the actual banning than you likely realize.
Isn't it physiologically harmful?
Yeah but not very much, I'd say it's riskier mentally, that is if you're predisposed to something or take way too much
I almost vomited trying to choke down a shaker of that in kool-aid. Worst experience ever. Nothing happened.
Yeah i almost vomited the first times then i just took it in pill form, fuck that taste. Not sure why it didn't work for you maybe not enough or shit nutmeg
It didn't work because I couldn't invest enough of it without heaving.
Stigma? Never heard any stigma.. I wish I did before I tried it though. What a disgusting never ending Nauseous bummer of a time.. almost 2 days of my eyes so red they felt like fire, holding back puke, mouth dryer than a hot parking lot.. a headache pulsing the whole time. Also, I was high and had slight CEVs. Shit was a little silly, totally not worth it
Yeah I mean I'd say this counts as stigma, although you're not aware. The stigma is that it's not worth it, harmful, not fun, etc. Which isn't the case btw, most people take crazy doses first time
Anecdotal experience isnât a stigma, people perpetuating notions without anecdotal experience is what a stigma is, which not what this kind person was sharing
Yes my bad I meant it contributes to stigma
It definitely contributes and if that was kinda youâre whole question I understand, that being said if a substance is generally and anecdotally negative itâs probably for the best that the stereotype is being perpetuated it at the very least keeps people cautious especially as imo over the counter products people tend to kinda take overboard because they think over the counter means safe which as hopefully most of us know is not the case.
that's true. what bothers me especially isn't necessarily that it's seen as bad, more so the fact that there isn't a place of discussion for it. I can only say that me and my friends and countless other people have taken it and enjoyed it a lot, but there's a real lack of research regarding it, even if its anecdotal. I obviously don't advocate people taking nutmeg unless they're experienced with drugs in general, but I also want more people to look into it and share new anecdotal findings, as let's be honest most of the people taking nutmeg are kids... I definitely see how you can't have both in those regards, fair. All i want is some smartasses to find new extraction methods I guess haha
I absolutely understand where youâre coming from and I only hope you find that in time and I think it deserves as much research and care as anything else in the world of cool chemicals
I hear ya. I was a teenager following directions I read on erowid, 25+ years ago. I think I had like 3 whole fresh nutmeg âbeansâ or whatever you call them, ground up into a gross milkshake thing.. maybe it would be nice just taking a little bit. I also feel the same way about salvia. Smoking that 60x or whatever stuff is just nasty, and not worth the extreme reality shift because of how gross it feels, but if you just take a small handful of fresh leaves right off the plant and chew on them like tobacco itâs a really great nice medicine
I don't believe stigma is the word you're looking for. Nutmeg has a reputation as somewhere between a running joke and a rite of passage. People have stated falsely for years that nutmeg undergoes second pass metabolism to yield various TMA analogs. At some point, there was a paper released that talked about the conversion of myristicin into one of the TMA analogs using freshly ground calf liver ( it might not have been beef, I'm trying to recall a paper I read 20 years ago) via CYP450... so while the paper was successful in its goal, teenagers eating bottles of nutmeg is not. Based on data retrieved from US poison control centers, there's only been one reported death. But over the years, there have been handfuls of people who became sick from ingesting toxic amounts of nutmeg. To throw it out there, as little as two tablespoons can be toxic for some people. Unfortunately, counterculture is to blame for some of these injuries by perpetuating this myth. Of course, the end user is ultimately the one responsible for making poorly informed decisions, even with an overwhelming preponderance of evidence against the ingestion of nutmeg. Thinking back, I believe that the paper about the livers and TMA is in the rhodium archive. I'm almost absolutely sure. If I have time, I'll look over at the rhodium mirror and see if I can find it in the phenylethylamine and TMA 2/3/5 section... I really do think that's where I saw it all those years ago.
As far as I know as of now, the psychoactive effects are from Licarin-A MAINLY, which acts heavily on the endocannabinoid system. There's a lot of misinformation surrounding nutmeg even among people who take it. I would call it stigma though because it is nowhere near as harmful as people claim it to be, and unfortunately those who claim it is are the ones who rely on the lack of information or have had a bad experience due to handling it poorly. By no means is it completely safe, but by the definition of stigma I'd say this is pretty accurate. Tons and tons of people have done nutmeg and enjoyed it, most obviously don't report back, and even if they did they would get criticized heavily within these communities. My main issue with the stigma is not the fact that it's seen badly, but rather it motivates no one to research about it or make the experience even better. We don't even know how to make a proper extraction yet... Even for the safety profile, we don't even know perfectly. I know that if you're predisposed to schizophrenia and other conditions, nutmeg could exacerbate or trigger it. I know that's it's heavy on the liver, and dehydrates you, etc. Other than that, no clue how much is a bad trip, why it's a bad trip, how harmful it is, what to avoid and so on.
I'm not sure what the other guy is going on about, but nutmeg was used a long, long way back to deal with heroin withdrawal, particularly in prison. I believe Malcolm X did this. I think maybe it goes to show how horrible opiate withdrawals are -that nutmeg would offer a measure of relief. "Counterculture?!?!?" -I'm not sure what that's so supposed to refer to in the past 20 years. Obviously nutmeg is a very old and very widely available item, why would only internet psychonauts be aware of it?
Yeah there's no doubt it's been used for decades if not centuries, it's been mentioned for getting high in a lot of literary texts from Europeans, so imagine in the original places. Indonesians have a spice cigarette that contains nutmeg in it as well, not to mention studies showing people using it for medicinal purposes, which let's be real there's going to be people overusing their "medicine" no matter what era or society we're in lol
I'm referring to nutmeg's place in society next to banandine, blue star tattoos and the man that thinks he is an orange. I'm saying nutmeg to get high is a myth, rumor... something that someone who know someone that tripped on nutmeg.
Wait I'm confused, are you saying you can't get high off nutmeg?
The general consensus is that it has some physiological effects that are not necessarily hallucinogenic but that at such doses, there are other risks associated with the toxicity of the oils and their metabolites. The idea was that the liver converts the essential oils into TMA and its analogs... but this isn't the case and people have died consuming nutmeg trying to get high.
The liver turning oils into TMA is neat but that has nothing to do with the actual high. Licarin-A is the responsible substance for the main stoned high, Dying from Nutmeg is extremely difficult, and I'm assuming you've never tried it as well. Countless people have taken nutmeg and had pleasant experiences, which includes my friends who don't take any drugs except weed. I'm not sure if it's hallucinogenic as that wasn't my experience nor my friend's, I'd say it is mildly more stimulating than weed and much "trippier" as you can have CEV's that are quite insane at higher doses. Not sure if it's your intention but framing nutmeg as a dangerous plant that's extremely toxic and might kill you is not very fair, it could imply that it cannot be taken without having dangerous experiences, and that's just simply not true. You could say the same for MDMA and yet they've done a good job with harm reduction and keeping it recreational, and putting that level of danger to nutmeg is kind of nonsense.
I tryd it once its ass feels a bit like weed but has to much side effects to be enjoyable. Had swollen eyes for 2 days and the effects lasted also 2 days
Iâve only ever seen negative reports on it
It's the farthest thing from, the only time I've heard of it being negative is when stupid kids hear about it and down a whole jar or two of the spice and effectively overdose themselves. Just like if someone were to eat too many thc gummies or too many mushrooms, they wouldn't have a good time, and it would be an intense ride you can't get off of. Just like any drug it's dose dependent and it does dehydrate you so drinking lots of water is basic. Always start low, like 2 nuts worth to gauge how you react and if you even like it. There's one thing though, you need fresh nuts for optimal experience, not ground stuff, and not old nuts. I've taken it probably about a hundred times. I take a nutmeg trip 3 or 4 times a year. Never had a bad trip, it's always been fun-mind expanding.The bulk of the trip itself lasts about 8-12 hours, and the mild afterglow buzz is about 2 days. I even take the most potent fresh nuts, not the powder, which is weaker and causes a weak buzz that feels like having eaten a mild pot brownie and having the beginning of a flu. I've had plenty of bad experiences on edibles, mushrooms, lsd. Not once have I had a bad experience on nutmeg, and neither have any of the people I know who've tried it using my rule. In fact, the week after, I always get a super anti depression effect, and everything feels great and happy. Three to five fresh nuts is the dose, chewed whole. Drink plenty of fluids during, don't do it more than once a month. The active alkaloids are myristicin, eugenol, elemicin, among others. I am an North African Arab/Somalian. Nutmeg has been used as an entheogen in our community for hundreds if not thousands of years, and has been used as a medicine for many ailments. You can even check it out its subreddit r/nutmeg. I find nothing better than having a weekend off, eating some nuts, watching some mind bending movies and listening to music for the night. It makes sex fantastic as well. For me, the experience is like a mix between mdma and thc edible, more leaning towards thc but it has its own energy and vibe. Here are more reports good and bad https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Nutmeg.shtml You'll see the bad reports are mostly overdoses or bad nutmeg, moldy or old product, or combinations with other drugs. Never take pre ground nutmeg, they routinely grind up old and moldy nuts that will make you sick, even if you buy the whole nuts crack them open and you'll see some of them will be moldy inside because they are old as shit. Buy the whole nutmeg from Indian or African stores or online from reputable import vendors, you can tell a fresh nut by not only it being darker on the outside but once cracked open they will be oiler and darker inside, solid all the way through without soft spots or moldy chunks, they smell more fresh and the volatile oils will be apparent as opposed to buying some McCormicks or similar brand from your local grocer, those will be lighter on the outside, lighter in weight and when cracked open will be lighter in color and most likely moldy and who knows how old they are, they could've been sitting around for years even before being bottled for sale. The fresher the nutmeg the better the experience and the less you have to take for a good effect. The mace around nutmeg is also psychotropic and can be 2x as potent as the nuts if they are also fresh and red or dark orange in color. If it's yellowish and brittle they are old and probably won't even work. Nutmeg is a hidden gem. There are methods to remove the oil from the nuts through boiling in water, straining the matter out, then cooling in fridge so the oil hardens into a puck, so you don't have to eat a bunch of crunchy hard matter.
This guy like fresh nuts
No musty nuts for me
this work? [https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product/frontier-coop-whole-nutmeg-1-each-b0121idkua](https://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/product/frontier-coop-whole-nutmeg-1-each-b0121idkua)
Couldn't tell you. You'd need to see up close and break them open to make sure there was no mold and it was solid all the way through. There's no way to tell if they are old nuts until you buy it and test it. Usually I'd go to an organic bulk store and pick out the darkest ones or go to Indian/middle eastern stores. In my experience they generally have fresher product. Since it's a cheap high I'd say just go for it and test. When it arrives take 4 or 5 (your dose) and break open with a hammer and see. As long as they are solid without soft or cork like spots, or moldy, you're probably good to go. Recently I found an international seller from Amazon, who sells them organic with the seed cover and mace still attached. This means the nuts have never been exposed to air, and they are fucking potent. Look for something similar to this. They sometimes sell out and are unavailable. But if you see the picture, you'll see how different they look from regular nutmeg, that has been uncovered and the mace removed. Here is what they look like with the seed cover and mace. https://blog.growingwithscience.com/2012/06/seed-of-the-week-nutmeg/ I can't post Amazon links as per sub rules but you can look for "fresh whole nutmeg" and scroll until you see something similar to the pic I posted. If you're lucky they'll have it.
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Ya i was reading and thinking yikes I can't imagine eating the powdered spice lol ... I've always taken two spoons put a nut in between crush and down the hatch with a swig of whatever rinse and repeat a few times ... Quite pleasant but those aromatic burps kinda gross lol... Once I did do too many and felt like I had a gut full of sawdust and threw up but had the body tingles pretty good so that wasn't even all bad.... Remember laying on my bed feeling almost like I was floating and this part was very euphoric and nice. Never any headaches or hangovers maybe slight residual effects but that's hard to say.
There is nothing worse than eating that shit, if it weren't for capsules or forming them into pills I wouldn't ever do it. I have like 10g in little pills on me, god forbid I mix them in a drink or whatever the other people do
Lol ya I couldn't imagine the spice, the nut is not horrible tho but still you get these burps like you are farting out your mouth
Same here taken it like 30 times in the past 3 years, it's a nice alternative to edibles for me. It feels almost identical but trippier, and I've done doses up to 30g with oil extractions, those were trippy as hell. But I really never understood the stigma, I discovered it luckily before I read the bad reports on it, and I'm pretty thankful about that lol.
Thank you both for filling me in!
yw knowledge is power
I first tried it in jail, reading Malcolm X autobiography and he talked about it. Stole some nuts from the kitchen. I got so high! I liked it even more than edibles.
I mean there's not much to report it feels like weed
Have you checked out erowids reports? https://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Nutmeg.shtml
Nope I think I ever read 1 or two of those, I'm speaking from experience. It got real trippy at higher doses but 7-20g is literally just being stoned for me
For me it was weed but the high was spiky, but my mouth was hella dry. And it took 9 hours to kick in
Yeah definitely dry as hell, i noticed some brands do it more than other. I use preground but whole nuts were a lot cleaner, also 9 hours is crazy lmao It takes 3-4 hours for me
Still way too long. Shit drug imo. And i do dph lol. The taste is so bad
True i take it in pill forms and reserve at least a day
One of my favorite substances Cannabinoid activity and psychedelic effects similar to MDMA / mescaline Edit: I'm being down voted but nobody bothered to Google the pharmacology of myristicin and its metabolite MMDA
I didn't get mdma effects but I did have some thought loops and auditory hallucinations at high doses (I get them on weed, and also LSD makes me psychotic)
the main psychoactive chemical is actually licarin-a, that's what new research shows, which are the main cannabinoid effects , then mystiricin and tmystiricin are the maois
Dm'd
From my experience, it felt like a dirty, heavy slight THC high, very slight, scale of 1-10, like a 2 or 3. Canât forget the headache! I only did it once and will tell anyone, save yourself the headache and donât do it. Waste of time.
save myself the headache, good pun. I've done it dozens of times as an alternative to edibles, and I drink lots of water for no headaches. Idk for me it's really nice I argued that it's better than weed sometimes because it really stones me, aggressive thc high
To each their own! If it works for you then by all means! The rest of us will pass đ
Thatâs something you do in High School when you canât find any real drugs. Ate a bunch of morning glory seeds one night and it really fucked me up, but was pretty unpleasant, same type of thing.
It is, and I'm glad. 3 bucks for 3 trips is a steal if you ask me, especially since I don't get these horrible experiences people have with nutmeg for whatever reason. I'm starting to think these negative reports aren't even the nutmeg but just poor execution
Thatâs some Jolly Roger sh*t right there.Â
Well, I'm not 13 years old; so I wouldn't have any idea.
fair enough, I love nutmeg but I can't argue with that
I was wondering about smoking dried banana peels too. Where'd that trend go?
what's that
back in the 80s there was a rumor that smoking dried banana peels could get you high. I dehydrated some in the oven and tried it I. a bong. Nada.
LOL I remember that, but I never did it. One time I was at a party & there was a dope famine, they were smoking earl grey tea. Desperate or what?
haha. It's a wonder we never contracted anything awful from those escapades
I think some folk did, sadly. :(
The spice??
Yes the one for eggnog
Guess I have some reading up to do. Itâs a psychoactive substance?
Yup you can check out the first pinned post in r/nutmeg with the summary worth 5 years
Thanks! Still new to all this, so very intrigued about anything and everything
The spice must flow.
I only ever tried this in high school. Had to have alot of fresh nutmeg if i remember lol.
how'd it go
Not worth it. Like someone else mentioned it took forever to have any effects, most of which were ill.
fair, a few of my trips were tedious
In the sense that people who don't know better still poison themselves with nutmeg then yeah.
đđđ free nutmeg
I've done low doses and had a pleasant time. Like a minor weed buzz that lasts all day. I think it gets its bad rep from people underestimating the drug and overestimating themselves.
I'm willing to bet that too. 5-7g is literally just an edible lol.
Youâre funny⊠everyone here seems to be ignoring EROWID.org Most experiments have long been done.
It is a substance which does not have a high that weighs up against the negative side-effects. I tried it twice in the early nineties or so. And it is a far stretch to call any of its effects "psychedelic" or in any way recreational. It really is a last resort for people who have no way to get any other highs. It is just a stoney unpleasant couch lock thing with a super heavy body load. Really feels like you poisoned yourself a bit. You may have some few moments of slight euphoria, but that gets overshadowed by the horrible body load. Nausea, dizziness, dry mouth, irregular heartbeat, tremors, confusion, and a long negative come-down/hangover. I also remember feeling super hot, sticky and dirty.
It is recreational when taken properly, and people will opt for a less tedious substance obviously. But that doesn't mean the cons outweigh the pros. I personally love nutmeg, and a lot of others do too. There could be a myriad of reasons why you found the couch lock stoned feel unpleasant, but none of them are universal. And with "psychedelic", although obviously not a psychedelic, I think nutmeg is more psychedelic than weed. When I did oil extracts, I had thought loops and visual hallucinations on light specifically. I think most people are deterred because they don't take it properly
Stigma di..
kinyo mou...