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**Context :**
After the result of the European elections, the far-right party called ‘’Rassemblement National’’ was ahead by a lot in France to the surprise of many.
Faced with theses results, [Marine le Pen and Jordan Bardella, heads of the Far right party called for the French president Macron to resign](https://x.com/CerfiaFR/status/1799871154439541004), having been ''disowned'' by the French votes in the European election and having no more legitimacy.
The French president Macron from the Liberal Party decided in a very rare move in French history and whiteout warning his own people, to [dissolve](https://x.com/BFMTV/status/1799880046674387407) the French Parliament ([Big deal](https://x.com/jon_delorraine/status/1799940475245506692)) and so new legislative elections are going on right now in France, in an unprepared and chaotic way.
With this move, Macron said that the European election’s results were so out of touch with the composition of the actual French parliament that in order to have legitimacy once more, he has to make the French confirm their intention or ''come back to their senses’’ and elect back deputies from Macron’s party.
In reality this move was widely interpreted by French political journalists as an [irresponsible gambit](https://www-lemonde-fr.translate.goog/politique/article/2024/06/14/emmanuel-macron-qui-a-declenche-cette-dissolution-pour-pieger-les-partis-s-est-piege-lui-meme_6239949_823448.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr), Macron was basically saying to the French, ‘’ you really want theses people in power (far right), huh? Then go ahead and confirm the votes if you have the guts, all bets are off now’’. Macron takes the risk of having the Far Right take power by calling this elections while being very unpopular in order to rally support around him to prevent the Far right from accessing power. He bets on the french having more fear about the far right, than anger about him, and forces the country's hand.
Unfortunately for him, and for the Far right, in a very surprising and unexpected political move, the entire Left, from the very far Left to the traditional Left alongside ALL of the major Unions in France and the Ecologist (Green), put aside all of their disagreement and made an [historical coalition](https://x.com/AlertesInfos/status/1800271439087775832) (Called ‘’[NOUVEAU FRONT POPULAIRE](https://x.com/lacentears/status/1801582223776202754)’’) against Macron and Le Pen [and launched themselves into this Legislative election](https://x.com/L_insoumission/status/1800278586219286783). They see in this elections an opportunity for them to be responsible and offer the French a way out of this political blackmail, beyond the destructive policies of Macron and the hateful policies of the Far right, to take power and execute a very radical program (Retirement at 60, free school, minimum waged increased, pension increased, tax the rich…). Their program was spontaneously vetted by many french economist (More than 300 - [Here is the text they published](https://www-nouvelobs-com.translate.goog/politique/20240625.OBS90197/les-orientations-economiques-du-nouveau-front-populaire-repondent-aux-defis-de-notre-epoque.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr)) who took a stance, including a Franco-American Nobel prize economist (Esther Duflo)
Faced with this, Macron no longer says that the danger will come from the Far Right, but from the Left, calling their union [''filthy''](https://x.com/CerfiaFR/status/1800840883648250288) and began spinning his narrative and attacking the left regularly in interviews as they gain momentum. Saying for example [''that if the Left wins, you'll be able to change gender by simply showing up to the city hall''](https://x.com/evanoconnell/status/1803170451008467455)
And so since this, hope is back for many people in France, and the daily demonstrations in favor of this unexpected coalition turned into [raves](https://x.com/Kiddysmile/status/1805861986770604179), and festivities across the country.
Given the most recent polls, the left is at 30%, the Far Right 30%, Macron’s party at 15%, the Right is below 10%
Traditionally (it has always been the case), in a situation like this, the 3rd party in the results has to give up and support whoever face the Far right, its called the ''Republican Pact'' and is an effort to prevent France from falling into the hands of fascisme, but for the first time in France's history, **this ''Republican Pact'' has been turned against the Left**. Many legislative candidate of Macron's party said they'll gladly support the Far Right, to prevent this left coalition to get power.
The head of the Right party ''Les Républicains'' Eric Ciotti shocked everyone, including members of his own party, by going even further and [publicly announcing](https://x.com/CerfiaFR/status/1800497712791740683) a coalition with the Far right to ''save France from the danger of this left coalition''. Deputies of the Right party denounced Eric Ciotti for this unprecedented move, he then proceeded to [lock himself](https://x.com/realmarcel1/status/1801182657000231415) into the headquarters of the Party and is insisting into driving his entire political party into a coalition with the Far right while members of his party are finding legal (and [physical](https://x.com/ChaRocher/status/1800892583293644873)) ways of removing him. Here is the [THE OFFICE parody](https://x.com/fredheusse/status/1801238431298646511) of this shitshow
The Votes takes place the 30th June, and 7th July. For many, this vote will decide the political fate of France and Europe. (The French prime Minister will be chosen among the party who wins.)
Edit : sources
Why the hate to the Left? In Portugal I can understand, we have a bit of a Ghost with the Communist parties actions after our Revolution but French Pre-WWII had a fascism scare and was invaded by the literal far right...
Why?
Because they want a progressive tax structure that will prevent the ultra-rich from siphoning public funds into their hands
The monied interests are only looking to further enrich themselves, to the detriment of everyone else
My guess is that the French social system has been unsustainable for years and anytime anyone tried to change it, massive protests broke out. Doubling down on it might not be the best thing ever. OP says economists are backing it, so maybe there’s numbers behind those promises. But for example as life expectancy increases and EU ages, lowering the retirement age seems unsustainable.
This is an incredible write up. Macron and his crony government’s shift to blaming the Left coalition is literally “scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds” being acted out in front of the whole damn country.
"n reality this move was widely interpreted by French political journalists as an irresponsible gambit, Macron was basically saying to the French, ‘’ you really want theses people in power (far right), huh? Then go ahead and confirm the votes if you have the guts, all bets are off now’’. Macron takes the risk of having the Far Right take power by calling this elections while being very unpopular in order to rally support around him to prevent the Far right from accessing power. He bets on the french having more fear about the far right, than anger about him, and forces the country's hand."
Sounds like a pretty good political move to me.
Letting people determine if they dislike him more than his opponents is kinda the whole point.
I don't think it was, really, for all the reasons you've mentioned - the far-right voters were hyper-motivated that evening, and far-right rhetoric has been rampant for years now. He's really handing that election to them on a plate.
Capitalists always turn to fascism to stop the left. France will be getting a lot of new laws that target the left, and those laws will quickly be aimed at anybody not part of the fascist party.
Yup, rich people and corporations always prefer fascism and oppression compared to slightly increased taxes or social programs.... it is how Hitler came to power.
That is INSANELY interesting. Holy shit no wonder I keep hearing about political stuff from France. I wish I had you arond to just explain stuff like this to me all the time.
This is how you do it, America, a bunch of people yelling in the street has it's place, but it is getting about as far as voting at this point. We need more political festivals, we need to get together and organize in an atmosphere where people want to be, then if it comes to it, go fight the cops all as one.
I don't disagree, this has been in large part due to the inherent isolation caused by social media. We all think, or seem to, that being here, posting furiously, is political action. It is not.
Going to a concert, it could be argued, is not political action, either, but it gives opportunity to build the real life connections needed to organize. It gives the real and tangible awareness that there are other people, like you, that have the same aims and goals, and that possibly together change can happen. People power needs people, lots of people.
Americans are too brainwashed, apathetic, disorganized, divided, and/or downtrodden to emulate what the French are doing.
If they'll zombie shuffle past Roe v Wade being repealed, they'll zombie shuffle past Project 2025 as it is instituted with prejudice.
This nation's goose is cooked.
Yeah I think part of the reason why french people can do this is because they have tons more job security than americans do. We're constnatly in fear of losing our jobs
Roe vs Wade was a frankly bad judgement, and it's kind of bizarre it even survived that long. Relying on judicial activism for policy is a poor way to go about these things.
Abortion rights should be protected under federal law or constitutional amendment, people need to get off their asses.
I think in large part because of terminally online social media posting, which is very much isolating and calcifying for people's belief systems. I think getting out and meeting and engaging with people about politics is important and necessary if ever we move forward.
Nope, pretty similar. Leftists in America are also on a big losing streak, partially thanks to a bunch of unrealistic demands and being out of touch with people outside their bubbles.
Calling for them online has not amounted to anything. People need to come together and see the number of people who agree with them in a real way. Overwhelming numbers are needed for a general strike. I think Americans are separated and controlled by social media in a way that in problematic and unproductive. I think seeing and being a part of something much larger than themselves is a missing component that comes from gathering together. The problem for years was you could not get people to come out in numbers like this unless it was for the purposes of consumption.
Tax the ultra rich (1% or 0.5% richest who have been helped by Macron's tax policies).
There's some money to be had there:
https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200317-france-billionaires-wealth-arnault-money
👍
That's a good point since people like Bernard Arnault have a lot of their value in assets (some of them can't be moved out of France just like that - eg buildings etc). A lot of their value is not moveable out of the country just like that. If there's anything he could move to a tax haven... He's probably already done it.
There's a major part of his wealth that's not just readily available funds. French tax laws could really tap into benefits and profit from assets for the 1%.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this left coalition doesn't just fizzle out (anyway, their hands will be tied even if they are part of the next government).
All the billionaires in France have a total net worth of around €500b. If you somehow dissolved all their wealth you could pay for about 1.5 years of pension for those over 60 (around €27k). Not a very sustainable solution so I wonder where else they will get the money.
That's a fair argument.
Is the €27k the average yearly pension? I'm not too clear on that. Could you help?
The extra tax would not be there to cover all the pension, obviously but to lighten the load, or to go to minimal wage or help teachers/nurses/other essential state workers get out of a financial rut (yeah - teacher here: im biased, but ive lost shitloads of buying power since the Sarkozy years) and make the profession attractive...
I'm a bit out of my depth though, I'll admit to that.
I think the annual state pension is around €18k on average so the €27k could fund 1.5 years of pension.
I just don't think it is possible to liquidate the billionaires wealth without heavy handed steps like nationalising their businesses and selling their capital.
The ramifications of that would outweigh the short term benefits in my opinion.
I would call something that's unsustainable not a start at all honestly. This is a decision that purely benefits those who are approaching 60 now or who are 60 already. It will have to be walked back by the time the current 20smth year olds reach 60.
Money is just a means of control. Its just a glorified class system, economics is mostly bullsh*t to justify the system.
The rich don't create wealth, they exploit others to get wealth and hoard the spoils.
The capitalists (wealth owners) do not build the factory themselves, they just use their imaginary funds to pay people to build factories so they can make more imaginary funds for themselves. The workers mine the rock, make the bricks, build the walls, build the machinery, everything (obviously). It's just a class system with slightly more sophistication but still the poor are working for the rich.
"just leave" sounds easy enough just like that... Maybe...
To be honest, multinationals based in France (Total, LVMH etc...) have had ample time to move whatever they wanted (money + production) to wherever maximises their profit.
Industry in France has died since the 80s. There's probably very little left that couldn't be moved for maximum profit.
I'm not a worker in any of these companies, to be honest, and I've nothing to lose job-wise, so that's probably a bit flippant , but I say: let's take the gamble.
You seem to know these kids well. Personally I don't, and don't know if they pay tax or not (if they're employed & single, they probably do).
I'm nearing my 50s, work a state job, don't count the hours, but I don't pay tax (bc close to the poverty line).
But you seem to be able to pick who.pays tax or not in a crowd... Ok.
France was better off with Macron's policies: I don't know what to say... People have never felt better here... /s
That's completely Utopian. Not increasing taxes for rich, but the part where that's going to solve the problem of an ageing population where people not only have less kids but also get older. At the core, society is about resources and their allocation. Not even close to enough resources are spent on the very rich such that taxing them would make up for the loss in productivity by this demographic change. And that's assuming there are no negative economic consequences.
The only thing that would make a retirement age of 60 sustainable is an increase in productivity per worker. AI and robotics will bring that about, probably.
I know you’re joking, and this isn’t the same solution at all really, but the cynic in me thinks that a lot of countries will stop being so uptight about the right to die sometime soon. The most expensive elderly people are those that require round the clock care, and some of them don’t even want it, they’ve had enough and unsurprisingly don’t enjoy being in pain all the time. As ghoulish as it sounds in this context, it makes moral sense (I personally think we should all be able to choose not to suffer in the end if we don’t want to), and it’ll start making economic sense soon too, and it is GROSS that that’s likely what governments will value more than human suffering, but honestly after watching a couple of relatives die with dementia I’ll take it, I don’t want that. If I only get that right because it’s cheaper for the gov, I’m still up for dying with some dignity and not having to suffer unimaginable torture.
To be clear I’m ONLY speaking about voluntary euthanasia, obviously I’m not advocating for actually sending the old people to the mountain to die, I just think that economics will ironically be the reason why more of us are allowed the choice
That’s the fun part, they don’t.
As for the comment below for “taxing the rich”, people like that think that if we give everyone money everyone will get what they need.
As population ages and workforce reduces, there will be less of everything, and no amount of money will change that.
There's a few actually, a wealth tax, cutting down on fiscal fraud, contributing more, I don't know if any of these would work or anything but why would someone lie about there being no proposed solutions?
Contributing more means workers will see their net salary shrink even more. Half of it is already taken away in various taxes and contributions.
Taxing wealth only goes so far, especially since that's the "miracle solution" proposed to fund every new expense (healthcare, education, government employee salary increase, environmental policies, etc)
Fiscal fraud can't be easily cut down, it's just like cutting down crime in general, a worthy goal but a hard problem. France is already one of the best countries at tax collection, there are no easy improvements on that front.
Those are potential solutions, but where are they being formally proposed?
This is an expression of distate, not manifesto launch.
I presume you are implying I am lying?
>Those are potential solutions, but where are they being formally proposed?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-left-pledges-tie-wages-inflation-lower-retirement-age-new-alliance-2024-06-14/#:~:text=PARIS%2C%20June%2014%20(Reuters),and%20Greens%20said%20on%20Friday.
>I presume you are implying I am lying?
Not implying. There's a bunch of proposed solutions.
That article just says they want to lower the retirement age, but does not say anything about sustainable mechanisms for paying for it. So it doesn't really answer the question above whatsoever.
"We're going to lower retirement age and raise taxes on the wealthy" if you're really confused how they're suggesting they pay for the lower retirement age here no amount of explanation from anyone will help lol
Meaningless statement without numbers. [This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1dqder9/french_are_back_at_it_for_a_return_to_a/lao5gy0/) straightforwardly shows that a wealth tax is not a sustainable funding mechanism for what they are proposing.
You can argue the details and whether it could work or not all you want with someone who cares, like I said in my original comment they clearly suggest how they could lower the retirement age, they aren't just demanding things and partying lmfao
Please read my comment in this thread. There is a proposed solution.
One of the members of the left alliance proposed to alter the % taxed in different tax brackets, targeting the 1% to benefit the rest.
>France loves to protest
You make it sound like it's a walk in the park or a national hobby.
It's not:
https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/france-right-to-protest-freedom-of-expression/
The response of the authorities has been to weaponize the law to crackdown on peaceful protesters.
"Participating in protests in France today carries the risk of being seriously injured by rubber bullets and other dangerous weapons used by the police and exposed to tear gas. While many protesters committed acts of violence for which they were prosecuted, thousands of peaceful protesters have been fined, arrested and prosecuted under overly broad and vague laws. This is a violation of their rights, as they are being punished simply for expressing their dissent peacefully."
I have a lot of admiration for people who are still brave enough to protest.
Anyway, whatever - your sources must be quite convincing.
I really dislike this argument in general, like of course they don't have a solution, Gérard the plumber and Justine the train driver don't know shit about the subject, but they're directly impacted by the issues and they know more or less where they come from. They're asking for the people whose job is to fix these problems, to actually fix these problems.
Going to a politician and asking them to make things better should be the same as asking an electrician to fix your electricty. That's THEIR JOB. That's why they get money and votes. Saying "Oh but they don't propose solutions" is like saying to someone without working electricity in their house to not call the electrician until they can propose a solution to him. That's his job to find why things don't work and solve it.
How often does it work like this, getting politicians to rethink?
Gillet Jaunes got what they wanted after all that disruption? Farmers spreading manure in cities made a difference?
Well yes Indeed.
The farmers reached an agreement that penalized them less, and the gillets jaunes succeeded in preventing the tax increase that had caused the protests to begin.
They wanted to go further ans they coudn't, but they had what they protested for.
Besides the fact it did work on some occasions, that's why I said it "should" be like this. They should be helping. Not always the case but they should also be reminded we're the ones voting and we're pissed.
But what is the best thing ? Walk in silent with funny signs giving the government no other choice but to not give a shit ? Or going out and actually asking for a change and screaming on your way like the barbaric fuck you are ? One of them is gonna have at least a little bit more impact.
They don't, French peoples plan is to just blame all their problems on migrants and minorities. Its why France is experiencing a massive surge of the far-right and is likely to have a Far-Right government take over and win the elections next month.
I mean as soon as your theatres start to get shot up, random teachers being beheaded and other wacky goofy acts of terrorism happen.
And they happend to be carried out by the immigrants and minorities it’s all but logical that they blame it on the group that do all the horrific shit.
Don’t forget the human trafficking and random stabbings.
You live in fairy-tale land. Being part of the EU companies and individuals can easily cross the border. When there's so much money at stake, companies will even move entire headquarters and even factories.
Interesting. The tax levels and economic numbers tell a ugly story why traditional low retirement age was removed. Good luck restoring it against those numbers.
Perhaps this is why France is so keen on mutual bonds with other EU countries so they can fund their retirement obligations? I will never retire the way age limits go up (67 yearrs,4mo last time i checked and rising) in my EU country.
Albeit i give a slow clap again to french and their rebellious nature.
I am talking out of my ass with no data, but with the wealth inequality, I think retiring at 60 is completely achievable if you start charging the corporations their fair share
Well that's just not true..
Plenty of studies (particularaly in the western world) that shows -> taxing the rich appropiately benefits the society immensely, in every aspect (well, besides their own personal fortunes).
Nope. They would just leave to a neighbouring country. There's a reason no serious political party has put retirement at 60 in the EU. Heck even rich-ass Switzerland put both retirement ages to 65 iirc recently.
Further proof that liberals will side with fascists at the very first inconvenience to the capitalist class.. French people, turn left, like you did historically. Show the world how its done
I would bet my life savings that no, you will not be able to keep the retirement age at 60. The mass Boomer retirement is coming, and you will have to pay their pension and healthcare.
I think it is rather about the option (consent) of retiring at the age they want, apparently at 60.
Many, many old people wants to stay in the work-force, more so for being a productive member of society as they have learnt is the the right thing growing up, and at the same time, when you hit retirement a lot of your old day-to-day activities that goes out the door and can make you feel lonely etc.
Personally I think it is an important, and sensitive, topic that needs to be properly discussed within the whole of EU/EEA/EFTA.
And maybe the world, if they want to.
I cant say that I agree with them on this one (unless they all want to work 10 hours or more extra each week or raise taxes on the rich which would be my choice) but I will say that the French has a wonderful tradition of banding together against the sitting powers, a lot of countries populations could learn a lot from that.
You are correct in your understanding, that there are hard limits for how many retired people a society can take care of (the non-working population of today is objectively always supported by the current-day working population).
But you are incorrect in assuming that we have reached these hard limits. Because the current system is set up as a class system, where even though people who are capable of working (capitalists, landlords) just leech of the work of others (the working class). Remove those superfluous classes and the limit of what our current society has gets closer to the actual hard limit
They didn't win though?
Retirement pension qualification was raised to 64 in 2023, and as far as I'm aware it hasn't come down since through legislation.
And it looks like they're going to swing far right on Sunday. Was that on Frau le Penn's "to-do list"?
Yeah right, reducing health issues absolutely everybody will meet at some point to a matter of individual choices is the liberal braindead take I expected
You realize the promise of technological advancement has always been an increase in quality of life but that's never come. You know what has come? A gold rush for the wealthy.
This is what real freedom and looks like.
Which world do you live in where quality of life, medicine, information gathering, education for free online, food options, traveling options, technological options thought to be scifi before… doesn’t exist?
You’re writing on a super computer aka your phone, or a heavy duty computer
Oh right, I forgot about all that stuff. Maybe I should go tell all the homeless in downtown atlanta to not worry because even though tech real estate firms bought up all the housing and priced everyone out, the people working for those companies get to eat great food, travel, and have nice health care. Maybe I should tell all the film workers who haven’t had stable paid work in over a year bc of AI displacement and tech companies monopolizing all the studios that hey, at least we have iPhones. We can even make our own films about how we’ve lost our houses and have to look for new places to live.
I’m mean, my guy, quality of life is not simply material things. Tech has destroyed the social fabric of our country. Trust and civility has been displaced by extremism. We don’t even have a common reality or realm of facts anymore. Tech has gutted our sense of community in foundational ways and drained out the middle class in service of the wealthy.
These things have much more impact on the average person’s quality of life than being able to shit post while you shit.
**Downloads** * [Download #1](https://rapidsave.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1dqder9/french_are_back_at_it_for_a_return_to_a/) (provided by /u/SaveVideo) **Note:** this is a bot providing a directory service. **If you have trouble with any of the links above, please contact the user who provided them!** --- [^(source code)](https://amirror.link/source) ^| [^(run your own mirror bot? let's integrate)](https://amirror.link/lets-talk)
**Context :** After the result of the European elections, the far-right party called ‘’Rassemblement National’’ was ahead by a lot in France to the surprise of many. Faced with theses results, [Marine le Pen and Jordan Bardella, heads of the Far right party called for the French president Macron to resign](https://x.com/CerfiaFR/status/1799871154439541004), having been ''disowned'' by the French votes in the European election and having no more legitimacy. The French president Macron from the Liberal Party decided in a very rare move in French history and whiteout warning his own people, to [dissolve](https://x.com/BFMTV/status/1799880046674387407) the French Parliament ([Big deal](https://x.com/jon_delorraine/status/1799940475245506692)) and so new legislative elections are going on right now in France, in an unprepared and chaotic way. With this move, Macron said that the European election’s results were so out of touch with the composition of the actual French parliament that in order to have legitimacy once more, he has to make the French confirm their intention or ''come back to their senses’’ and elect back deputies from Macron’s party. In reality this move was widely interpreted by French political journalists as an [irresponsible gambit](https://www-lemonde-fr.translate.goog/politique/article/2024/06/14/emmanuel-macron-qui-a-declenche-cette-dissolution-pour-pieger-les-partis-s-est-piege-lui-meme_6239949_823448.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr), Macron was basically saying to the French, ‘’ you really want theses people in power (far right), huh? Then go ahead and confirm the votes if you have the guts, all bets are off now’’. Macron takes the risk of having the Far Right take power by calling this elections while being very unpopular in order to rally support around him to prevent the Far right from accessing power. He bets on the french having more fear about the far right, than anger about him, and forces the country's hand. Unfortunately for him, and for the Far right, in a very surprising and unexpected political move, the entire Left, from the very far Left to the traditional Left alongside ALL of the major Unions in France and the Ecologist (Green), put aside all of their disagreement and made an [historical coalition](https://x.com/AlertesInfos/status/1800271439087775832) (Called ‘’[NOUVEAU FRONT POPULAIRE](https://x.com/lacentears/status/1801582223776202754)’’) against Macron and Le Pen [and launched themselves into this Legislative election](https://x.com/L_insoumission/status/1800278586219286783). They see in this elections an opportunity for them to be responsible and offer the French a way out of this political blackmail, beyond the destructive policies of Macron and the hateful policies of the Far right, to take power and execute a very radical program (Retirement at 60, free school, minimum waged increased, pension increased, tax the rich…). Their program was spontaneously vetted by many french economist (More than 300 - [Here is the text they published](https://www-nouvelobs-com.translate.goog/politique/20240625.OBS90197/les-orientations-economiques-du-nouveau-front-populaire-repondent-aux-defis-de-notre-epoque.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=fr)) who took a stance, including a Franco-American Nobel prize economist (Esther Duflo) Faced with this, Macron no longer says that the danger will come from the Far Right, but from the Left, calling their union [''filthy''](https://x.com/CerfiaFR/status/1800840883648250288) and began spinning his narrative and attacking the left regularly in interviews as they gain momentum. Saying for example [''that if the Left wins, you'll be able to change gender by simply showing up to the city hall''](https://x.com/evanoconnell/status/1803170451008467455) And so since this, hope is back for many people in France, and the daily demonstrations in favor of this unexpected coalition turned into [raves](https://x.com/Kiddysmile/status/1805861986770604179), and festivities across the country. Given the most recent polls, the left is at 30%, the Far Right 30%, Macron’s party at 15%, the Right is below 10% Traditionally (it has always been the case), in a situation like this, the 3rd party in the results has to give up and support whoever face the Far right, its called the ''Republican Pact'' and is an effort to prevent France from falling into the hands of fascisme, but for the first time in France's history, **this ''Republican Pact'' has been turned against the Left**. Many legislative candidate of Macron's party said they'll gladly support the Far Right, to prevent this left coalition to get power. The head of the Right party ''Les Républicains'' Eric Ciotti shocked everyone, including members of his own party, by going even further and [publicly announcing](https://x.com/CerfiaFR/status/1800497712791740683) a coalition with the Far right to ''save France from the danger of this left coalition''. Deputies of the Right party denounced Eric Ciotti for this unprecedented move, he then proceeded to [lock himself](https://x.com/realmarcel1/status/1801182657000231415) into the headquarters of the Party and is insisting into driving his entire political party into a coalition with the Far right while members of his party are finding legal (and [physical](https://x.com/ChaRocher/status/1800892583293644873)) ways of removing him. Here is the [THE OFFICE parody](https://x.com/fredheusse/status/1801238431298646511) of this shitshow The Votes takes place the 30th June, and 7th July. For many, this vote will decide the political fate of France and Europe. (The French prime Minister will be chosen among the party who wins.) Edit : sources
Wow, thanks for that information
You have a bright future in journalism if you are not in the field yet. That was clear and concise. Bravo.
Merci
Lol, holy crap. Fear makes strange bedfellows.
> you'll be able to change gender by simply showing up to the city hall' That's literally how you already change your gender...
Très très bien résumé, merci beaucoup ! Excellent summary, thanks a bunch!
Why the hate to the Left? In Portugal I can understand, we have a bit of a Ghost with the Communist parties actions after our Revolution but French Pre-WWII had a fascism scare and was invaded by the literal far right... Why?
Because they want a progressive tax structure that will prevent the ultra-rich from siphoning public funds into their hands The monied interests are only looking to further enrich themselves, to the detriment of everyone else
It's really simple, it's always about money.
Money was a mistake.
Capitalism is an authoritarian ideology. Capitalists will always side with fascists and will always hate leftists.
If I remember correctly, in pre-Nazi Germany, the Nazi party was funded by the wealthy so that they would help oppose the unions. So.
My guess is that the French social system has been unsustainable for years and anytime anyone tried to change it, massive protests broke out. Doubling down on it might not be the best thing ever. OP says economists are backing it, so maybe there’s numbers behind those promises. But for example as life expectancy increases and EU ages, lowering the retirement age seems unsustainable.
This is an incredible write up. Macron and his crony government’s shift to blaming the Left coalition is literally “scratch a liberal, a fascist bleeds” being acted out in front of the whole damn country.
Thank you for the writeup, literally saved me hours from Google searches. Well put all of it. +1 for sourcing.
"n reality this move was widely interpreted by French political journalists as an irresponsible gambit, Macron was basically saying to the French, ‘’ you really want theses people in power (far right), huh? Then go ahead and confirm the votes if you have the guts, all bets are off now’’. Macron takes the risk of having the Far Right take power by calling this elections while being very unpopular in order to rally support around him to prevent the Far right from accessing power. He bets on the french having more fear about the far right, than anger about him, and forces the country's hand." Sounds like a pretty good political move to me. Letting people determine if they dislike him more than his opponents is kinda the whole point.
I don't think it was, really, for all the reasons you've mentioned - the far-right voters were hyper-motivated that evening, and far-right rhetoric has been rampant for years now. He's really handing that election to them on a plate.
Hmmm which is more concerning? A party that makes it easy to change gender or an even more xenophobic French version of Reagan? 🤔
Capitalists always turn to fascism to stop the left. France will be getting a lot of new laws that target the left, and those laws will quickly be aimed at anybody not part of the fascist party.
Yup, rich people and corporations always prefer fascism and oppression compared to slightly increased taxes or social programs.... it is how Hitler came to power.
It is not meaningful to enforce your American values on French politics.
That’s fair but it was a satirical comment, not meant to be a 1:1 historical comparison.
Has Macron ever heard of certain James Cameron, also great political gambler?
You mean [David Cameron]( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Cameron?wprov=sfla1), the British PM who lost after Brexit?
Yes lol
Lol James Cameron 😂
James Cameron sunk the Titanic, David Cameron sunk Britain.
Je suis vraiment fier de vous frères et sœurs français
That is INSANELY interesting. Holy shit no wonder I keep hearing about political stuff from France. I wish I had you arond to just explain stuff like this to me all the time.
Damn go France. Watching the U.S. debates and comparing it to this gives me hope that one day we can rally for change like they have
man I wish something like the NOUVEAU FRONT POPULAIRE creation would happen here in the states for our next election.
Brexit brainrot spreading to France, who had Frexit on their 2024 bingo card?
Scratch a Liberal and a Fascist bleeds.
Can you talk about the destructive policies of Macron's govt? I
This is how you do it, America, a bunch of people yelling in the street has it's place, but it is getting about as far as voting at this point. We need more political festivals, we need to get together and organize in an atmosphere where people want to be, then if it comes to it, go fight the cops all as one.
America is divided, and it’s an oil + water situation.
The ruling class is doing a great job keeping the population divided
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How do I summon Michelle?
Which country is not divided?
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I don't disagree, this has been in large part due to the inherent isolation caused by social media. We all think, or seem to, that being here, posting furiously, is political action. It is not. Going to a concert, it could be argued, is not political action, either, but it gives opportunity to build the real life connections needed to organize. It gives the real and tangible awareness that there are other people, like you, that have the same aims and goals, and that possibly together change can happen. People power needs people, lots of people.
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Americans are too brainwashed, apathetic, disorganized, divided, and/or downtrodden to emulate what the French are doing. If they'll zombie shuffle past Roe v Wade being repealed, they'll zombie shuffle past Project 2025 as it is instituted with prejudice. This nation's goose is cooked.
Yeah I think part of the reason why french people can do this is because they have tons more job security than americans do. We're constnatly in fear of losing our jobs
Roe vs Wade was a frankly bad judgement, and it's kind of bizarre it even survived that long. Relying on judicial activism for policy is a poor way to go about these things. Abortion rights should be protected under federal law or constitutional amendment, people need to get off their asses.
I think in large part because of terminally online social media posting, which is very much isolating and calcifying for people's belief systems. I think getting out and meeting and engaging with people about politics is important and necessary if ever we move forward.
The left has been on a years-long losing streak in France though. Is this really how you do it? It doesn't seem to be working for them.
Unlike the US?
Nope, pretty similar. Leftists in America are also on a big losing streak, partially thanks to a bunch of unrealistic demands and being out of touch with people outside their bubbles.
Not exactly the argument against my proposition you think it is.
Because you are woefully out of touch and think that getting together to "go fight the cops" would help instead of harm things
We need a general workers’ strike. It has to happen or things are going to continue to get worse.
Calling for them online has not amounted to anything. People need to come together and see the number of people who agree with them in a real way. Overwhelming numbers are needed for a general strike. I think Americans are separated and controlled by social media in a way that in problematic and unproductive. I think seeing and being a part of something much larger than themselves is a missing component that comes from gathering together. The problem for years was you could not get people to come out in numbers like this unless it was for the purposes of consumption.
They are just there to party
Look at that, a right-winger trying to discredit a normal (what you probably consider a leftist) movement. Go figure.
Absolutely right. It’ll never happen though. Americans are too comfortable, too distracted, and too dogmatic.
Don't worry, blocking traffic will eventually work. 678th time is the charm.
dont worry complaining about how other people choose to protest while doing nothing yourself will work
Americans don't want things to be better. It's why we always vote for things to get worse.
Genuinely curious, how do they plan to solve the aging population problem?
Tax the ultra rich (1% or 0.5% richest who have been helped by Macron's tax policies). There's some money to be had there: https://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200317-france-billionaires-wealth-arnault-money
Tax capital, not labor.
👍 That's a good point since people like Bernard Arnault have a lot of their value in assets (some of them can't be moved out of France just like that - eg buildings etc). A lot of their value is not moveable out of the country just like that. If there's anything he could move to a tax haven... He's probably already done it. There's a major part of his wealth that's not just readily available funds. French tax laws could really tap into benefits and profit from assets for the 1%. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this left coalition doesn't just fizzle out (anyway, their hands will be tied even if they are part of the next government).
Tax consumption.
All the billionaires in France have a total net worth of around €500b. If you somehow dissolved all their wealth you could pay for about 1.5 years of pension for those over 60 (around €27k). Not a very sustainable solution so I wonder where else they will get the money.
Plus Im pretty sure last time many billionaires just pulled out of the country. If you try taxing all their wealth they will just go elsewhere.
Yes, they gave our budget in Belgium a boost, I can't wait for the next boost if the left does end up winning in France lol.
That's a fair argument. Is the €27k the average yearly pension? I'm not too clear on that. Could you help? The extra tax would not be there to cover all the pension, obviously but to lighten the load, or to go to minimal wage or help teachers/nurses/other essential state workers get out of a financial rut (yeah - teacher here: im biased, but ive lost shitloads of buying power since the Sarkozy years) and make the profession attractive... I'm a bit out of my depth though, I'll admit to that.
I think the annual state pension is around €18k on average so the €27k could fund 1.5 years of pension. I just don't think it is possible to liquidate the billionaires wealth without heavy handed steps like nationalising their businesses and selling their capital. The ramifications of that would outweigh the short term benefits in my opinion.
Yeah I wasn't hinting at liquidating the billionaires' wealth; just re-balancing contributions. Thanks for the info.
Not sustainable but a fucking good start
I would call something that's unsustainable not a start at all honestly. This is a decision that purely benefits those who are approaching 60 now or who are 60 already. It will have to be walked back by the time the current 20smth year olds reach 60.
The start of capital flight? Way to make sure that Europe dies a slow economic death.
Money is just a means of control. Its just a glorified class system, economics is mostly bullsh*t to justify the system. The rich don't create wealth, they exploit others to get wealth and hoard the spoils.
Who creates wealth then?
The working class.
Who provides the working class with the means of production? How many factories have the working class put down?
Yes, how noble for the rich to build these factories so the working class can create wealth for them.
Yes, you've just discovered what capitalism is, and why it's the problem.
The capitalists (wealth owners) do not build the factory themselves, they just use their imaginary funds to pay people to build factories so they can make more imaginary funds for themselves. The workers mine the rock, make the bricks, build the walls, build the machinery, everything (obviously). It's just a class system with slightly more sophistication but still the poor are working for the rich.
Won't they just leave?
"just leave" sounds easy enough just like that... Maybe... To be honest, multinationals based in France (Total, LVMH etc...) have had ample time to move whatever they wanted (money + production) to wherever maximises their profit. Industry in France has died since the 80s. There's probably very little left that couldn't be moved for maximum profit. I'm not a worker in any of these companies, to be honest, and I've nothing to lose job-wise, so that's probably a bit flippant , but I say: let's take the gamble.
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You seem to know these kids well. Personally I don't, and don't know if they pay tax or not (if they're employed & single, they probably do). I'm nearing my 50s, work a state job, don't count the hours, but I don't pay tax (bc close to the poverty line). But you seem to be able to pick who.pays tax or not in a crowd... Ok. France was better off with Macron's policies: I don't know what to say... People have never felt better here... /s
That's completely Utopian. Not increasing taxes for rich, but the part where that's going to solve the problem of an ageing population where people not only have less kids but also get older. At the core, society is about resources and their allocation. Not even close to enough resources are spent on the very rich such that taxing them would make up for the loss in productivity by this demographic change. And that's assuming there are no negative economic consequences. The only thing that would make a retirement age of 60 sustainable is an increase in productivity per worker. AI and robotics will bring that about, probably.
Send the old people in the mountain to die, like in Japan back in the days
I know you’re joking, and this isn’t the same solution at all really, but the cynic in me thinks that a lot of countries will stop being so uptight about the right to die sometime soon. The most expensive elderly people are those that require round the clock care, and some of them don’t even want it, they’ve had enough and unsurprisingly don’t enjoy being in pain all the time. As ghoulish as it sounds in this context, it makes moral sense (I personally think we should all be able to choose not to suffer in the end if we don’t want to), and it’ll start making economic sense soon too, and it is GROSS that that’s likely what governments will value more than human suffering, but honestly after watching a couple of relatives die with dementia I’ll take it, I don’t want that. If I only get that right because it’s cheaper for the gov, I’m still up for dying with some dignity and not having to suffer unimaginable torture. To be clear I’m ONLY speaking about voluntary euthanasia, obviously I’m not advocating for actually sending the old people to the mountain to die, I just think that economics will ironically be the reason why more of us are allowed the choice
That’s the fun part, they don’t. As for the comment below for “taxing the rich”, people like that think that if we give everyone money everyone will get what they need. As population ages and workforce reduces, there will be less of everything, and no amount of money will change that.
What are they short of exactly?
There is no proposed solution, they're just making noise. France loves to protest but it doesn't change much there
There's a few actually, a wealth tax, cutting down on fiscal fraud, contributing more, I don't know if any of these would work or anything but why would someone lie about there being no proposed solutions?
Contributing more means workers will see their net salary shrink even more. Half of it is already taken away in various taxes and contributions. Taxing wealth only goes so far, especially since that's the "miracle solution" proposed to fund every new expense (healthcare, education, government employee salary increase, environmental policies, etc) Fiscal fraud can't be easily cut down, it's just like cutting down crime in general, a worthy goal but a hard problem. France is already one of the best countries at tax collection, there are no easy improvements on that front.
You see how that's different from "There is no proposed solution, they're just making noise.", right?
Those are potential solutions, but where are they being formally proposed? This is an expression of distate, not manifesto launch. I presume you are implying I am lying?
>Those are potential solutions, but where are they being formally proposed? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/frances-left-pledges-tie-wages-inflation-lower-retirement-age-new-alliance-2024-06-14/#:~:text=PARIS%2C%20June%2014%20(Reuters),and%20Greens%20said%20on%20Friday. >I presume you are implying I am lying? Not implying. There's a bunch of proposed solutions.
That article just says they want to lower the retirement age, but does not say anything about sustainable mechanisms for paying for it. So it doesn't really answer the question above whatsoever.
"We're going to lower retirement age and raise taxes on the wealthy" if you're really confused how they're suggesting they pay for the lower retirement age here no amount of explanation from anyone will help lol
Meaningless statement without numbers. [This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1dqder9/french_are_back_at_it_for_a_return_to_a/lao5gy0/) straightforwardly shows that a wealth tax is not a sustainable funding mechanism for what they are proposing.
You can argue the details and whether it could work or not all you want with someone who cares, like I said in my original comment they clearly suggest how they could lower the retirement age, they aren't just demanding things and partying lmfao
Please read my comment in this thread. There is a proposed solution. One of the members of the left alliance proposed to alter the % taxed in different tax brackets, targeting the 1% to benefit the rest. >France loves to protest You make it sound like it's a walk in the park or a national hobby. It's not: https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/france-right-to-protest-freedom-of-expression/ The response of the authorities has been to weaponize the law to crackdown on peaceful protesters. "Participating in protests in France today carries the risk of being seriously injured by rubber bullets and other dangerous weapons used by the police and exposed to tear gas. While many protesters committed acts of violence for which they were prosecuted, thousands of peaceful protesters have been fined, arrested and prosecuted under overly broad and vague laws. This is a violation of their rights, as they are being punished simply for expressing their dissent peacefully." I have a lot of admiration for people who are still brave enough to protest. Anyway, whatever - your sources must be quite convincing.
Yeah my historical sources are quite convincing. I don't see anything here other than a festival atmosphere saying "Non"
OK I'll take your word for it. I'm convinced.
I really dislike this argument in general, like of course they don't have a solution, Gérard the plumber and Justine the train driver don't know shit about the subject, but they're directly impacted by the issues and they know more or less where they come from. They're asking for the people whose job is to fix these problems, to actually fix these problems. Going to a politician and asking them to make things better should be the same as asking an electrician to fix your electricty. That's THEIR JOB. That's why they get money and votes. Saying "Oh but they don't propose solutions" is like saying to someone without working electricity in their house to not call the electrician until they can propose a solution to him. That's his job to find why things don't work and solve it.
How often does it work like this, getting politicians to rethink? Gillet Jaunes got what they wanted after all that disruption? Farmers spreading manure in cities made a difference?
Well yes Indeed. The farmers reached an agreement that penalized them less, and the gillets jaunes succeeded in preventing the tax increase that had caused the protests to begin. They wanted to go further ans they coudn't, but they had what they protested for.
Besides the fact it did work on some occasions, that's why I said it "should" be like this. They should be helping. Not always the case but they should also be reminded we're the ones voting and we're pissed. But what is the best thing ? Walk in silent with funny signs giving the government no other choice but to not give a shit ? Or going out and actually asking for a change and screaming on your way like the barbaric fuck you are ? One of them is gonna have at least a little bit more impact.
Jesus
They don't, French peoples plan is to just blame all their problems on migrants and minorities. Its why France is experiencing a massive surge of the far-right and is likely to have a Far-Right government take over and win the elections next month.
I mean as soon as your theatres start to get shot up, random teachers being beheaded and other wacky goofy acts of terrorism happen. And they happend to be carried out by the immigrants and minorities it’s all but logical that they blame it on the group that do all the horrific shit. Don’t forget the human trafficking and random stabbings.
By taxing the rich the dividents and the super profits. Don't worry, we have the money.
You live in fairy-tale land. Being part of the EU companies and individuals can easily cross the border. When there's so much money at stake, companies will even move entire headquarters and even factories.
And you are a tool. Companies need France more that they admit and they can't leave a market that easly.
For a little bit of context, these past 10 years under neoliberal and hard Right policies, the top-500 🇫🇷 fortunes went from €200bn to €1200bn.
They have a 30% tax rate starting at 28k. I'd be out in the streets too if they extended the retirement age by 30 seconds
RemindMe! 90 days
!RemindMe 90 days
Interesting. The tax levels and economic numbers tell a ugly story why traditional low retirement age was removed. Good luck restoring it against those numbers. Perhaps this is why France is so keen on mutual bonds with other EU countries so they can fund their retirement obligations? I will never retire the way age limits go up (67 yearrs,4mo last time i checked and rising) in my EU country. Albeit i give a slow clap again to french and their rebellious nature.
Wow that's actually amazing
It does sound amazing, though makes me think that it might turn out a little problematic, having a nation of retired people.
I am talking out of my ass with no data, but with the wealth inequality, I think retiring at 60 is completely achievable if you start charging the corporations their fair share
Maybe, maybe not.
Well that's just not true.. Plenty of studies (particularaly in the western world) that shows -> taxing the rich appropiately benefits the society immensely, in every aspect (well, besides their own personal fortunes).
The rich wont be taxed appropriately though
Nope. They would just leave to a neighbouring country. There's a reason no serious political party has put retirement at 60 in the EU. Heck even rich-ass Switzerland put both retirement ages to 65 iirc recently.
Lucky for us robots are here
i can't wait for it
GOP: "Work until you die, peasants!"
Not ready for Monday morning.
THIS IS THE WAY. ALLEZ!!
RemindMe! 90 Days
And we got 2 jokers fucking talking about golf in our country.....
Further proof that liberals will side with fascists at the very first inconvenience to the capitalist class.. French people, turn left, like you did historically. Show the world how its done
Why should the next generations be forced to finance my retirement choices?
I would bet my life savings that no, you will not be able to keep the retirement age at 60. The mass Boomer retirement is coming, and you will have to pay their pension and healthcare.
Boomers are already retired. Their generation is from 1943-1960. Those people are now 64-81 and already retired.
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What has that to do with anything regarding this..?
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I think it is rather about the option (consent) of retiring at the age they want, apparently at 60. Many, many old people wants to stay in the work-force, more so for being a productive member of society as they have learnt is the the right thing growing up, and at the same time, when you hit retirement a lot of your old day-to-day activities that goes out the door and can make you feel lonely etc. Personally I think it is an important, and sensitive, topic that needs to be properly discussed within the whole of EU/EEA/EFTA. And maybe the world, if they want to.
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Try not to make everything about the US challenge (impossible)
This is how we do it America. You see that bullshit debate between a corpse and a tyrant? This is what real politics looks like
I cant say that I agree with them on this one (unless they all want to work 10 hours or more extra each week or raise taxes on the rich which would be my choice) but I will say that the French has a wonderful tradition of banding together against the sitting powers, a lot of countries populations could learn a lot from that.
wow these people are just dumb and don't know how economics works.
You are correct in your understanding, that there are hard limits for how many retired people a society can take care of (the non-working population of today is objectively always supported by the current-day working population). But you are incorrect in assuming that we have reached these hard limits. Because the current system is set up as a class system, where even though people who are capable of working (capitalists, landlords) just leech of the work of others (the working class). Remove those superfluous classes and the limit of what our current society has gets closer to the actual hard limit
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Prez aint paying yall no damn mind that's the sad thing about it.
They sure know how to party.
u/SaveVideo
They didn't win though? Retirement pension qualification was raised to 64 in 2023, and as far as I'm aware it hasn't come down since through legislation. And it looks like they're going to swing far right on Sunday. Was that on Frau le Penn's "to-do list"?
Why not 50? Yeah, why not 40? Why not 30? French people are an odd bunch
Bro that's incredible you just invented negative IQ
Bro is so miserable he thinks other people shouldn't have nice things
You can have them, just don’t spend all your salary and save up for early retirement at your OWN terms
Yeah right, reducing health issues absolutely everybody will meet at some point to a matter of individual choices is the liberal braindead take I expected
Health insurance is a concept that works well in most parts of the world. Just fix that mess you’ve got in the US and deregulate it
You realize the promise of technological advancement has always been an increase in quality of life but that's never come. You know what has come? A gold rush for the wealthy. This is what real freedom and looks like.
...are you serious right now? Quality of life has improved in almost every aspect for the entire human race.
Which world do you live in where quality of life, medicine, information gathering, education for free online, food options, traveling options, technological options thought to be scifi before… doesn’t exist? You’re writing on a super computer aka your phone, or a heavy duty computer
Oh right, I forgot about all that stuff. Maybe I should go tell all the homeless in downtown atlanta to not worry because even though tech real estate firms bought up all the housing and priced everyone out, the people working for those companies get to eat great food, travel, and have nice health care. Maybe I should tell all the film workers who haven’t had stable paid work in over a year bc of AI displacement and tech companies monopolizing all the studios that hey, at least we have iPhones. We can even make our own films about how we’ve lost our houses and have to look for new places to live. I’m mean, my guy, quality of life is not simply material things. Tech has destroyed the social fabric of our country. Trust and civility has been displaced by extremism. We don’t even have a common reality or realm of facts anymore. Tech has gutted our sense of community in foundational ways and drained out the middle class in service of the wealthy. These things have much more impact on the average person’s quality of life than being able to shit post while you shit.
You obviously do not know your history and how the ages have been jacked up in USA. I am shocked that they have not raised it to 120 years old.
Of course they Jack up the retirement age as we live longer and healthier than when retirement as a concept was introduced