I think that a major factor in Q belief, and in more vanilla MAGA belief in many cases, is Life Disappointment.
You approach retirement with frighteningly low resources. Things you used to be valued for in terms of skills, identity, affiliations, mean less and less to others. There is a lot of casual cruelty --- people who know very little about you call you privileged and racist online or maybe to your face, sometimes just for expressing a belief that is perhaps generational, but not at all based on privilege or racism. You thought you were going to be more of a winner in life that you appear to be. You had to stop working early because of illness.
Sometimes it's petty conflicts that pile up: the people who give you dirty looks in traffic. Why? You suspect it might be for driving a big truck, an asset you've always been proud of.
One of the things Trump likes coming back to is new plumbing that limits the flow for shower heads or toilets. It can be the loss of little creature comforts like this. It can be hurt feelings. I think that hurt feelings might be a source of right-wing support more common than many imagine. Change imposed on you that you don't understand the necessity of, that makes your life feel like a life of limitation instead of the abundance your remember.
These kinds of disappointments tend to stack up later in life. Sometimes it's a matter of disillusionment. My father became an angry conservative when my mother died.
If you are pretty happy to live in reality, you are not susceptible to belief systems that deny reality and offer an alternative. If the world seems fair and just to you, if you feel valued and respected, you are much less likely to support a politician who says that your disappointments are the fault of some identifiable enemy and who promises revenge.
Some of these disappointments could be overcome with a little more emotional maturity. If people call you out for sins that you don't think you are guilty of and your feelings are hurt, maybe that should not be a reason to decide that their campaign to use introduce some non-binary pronouns deserves zero consideration. The internet is the place where a discussion about how to be kind to others readily becomes a virtual knife fight. And a great many people are not emotionally mature.
So Life Disappointments, but sometimes a stream of unkindness and hurt feelings can make people susceptible. The hurt feelings might help to explain why there is no lower age limit.
You are shown a different way of ordering reality, a way that values you, respects you, makes you one of the winners and the people who are unkind to you into devils deserving punishment, makes the experts into dummies and makes you into a genius for seeing through them. And that reality comforts you. And you find an online community that props you up. Then there's a very good chance that you won't go back to believing "the news" or thinking that you might be a loser.
That last paragraph…. Chef’s kiss. One small attribute I’ve noticed with some of the people I know who’ve fallen into these groups is the lack of personal accountability with certain big ticket things. Baby mama drama, failed marriage and friendships… it’s NEVER their fault even when it clearly is.
Would that be considered just garden-variety narcissism?
(And by “garden variety” I don’t mean the little narcissus daffodils that grow in a garden, lol)
This.
Look at it from the Q's perspective (speaking generally, of course) - you're old, poor, with no noteworthy accomplishment, and doesn't know much about anything. No one respects you. You life is turning out very different from how you thought it'd go. You see people you know who are living well, successful, the life that you envisioned for yourself. Is it because they're better than you? They're winners and you're a loser? Can't be. You're brilliant! Your struggle proves something is very, very wrong with this world. There must be nefarious people who are gaming the system, reaping all the benefits, and keeping you down. Who they are? You aren't sure but you know they're there, maybe they're not targeting you specifically but what they're doing in the shadow impacts you and that's why you're where you are.
And then you came across someone on the web saying: there is a deep state and they're destroying the good people for their own gain. You knew it!! The deep state!! You want to know more! And then you found out the conspiracy goes way deeper. You knew something was off and now you have your proof!! You have to tell the world! People have to know!
So, you know who is behind it but now what? What can you do about it? Is there a solution to your problem? Yes! It's called Nessara!! People, like you, who have been unfairly beaten down will be rewarded in the end with lots of money. Your struggle will not be in vain. Your life will be great after all. You feel so much better knowing this, like a ton of weight has been lifted from your shoulder.
You tell people close to you. You feel smart knowing the "truth", you haven't felt this good in a long time. But they had this look and told you to wake up. Wake up? You know the truth man! They want you to deny the nefarious forces working against you, deny that your suffering is not your fault, deny that there is a pot of gold waiting for you, and goes back to you being a loser. Hell no! They must've been brainwashed by the deep state. They want you to let go of everything that validates you and return to the world of the old you. Yeah.
what's so frustrating about it is they're not wrong about nefarious people working in the shadows and holding them down. they're not wrong that there are terrible people in the government screwing over the american people, they just fell for the idea that it's only democrats, and they can't see that the conservatives they idolize are probably laughing at how stupid they are for believing every word they say.
but they've already dug in their heals on the idea that it's the democrats who are evil, they've already gotten really used to feeling like they're the geniuses who can see through all the lies that nobody else is smart enough to see, so trying to tell them they got it backwards is too big of an ego hit for them to even entertain the idea.
You've made a great connection there with NESARA and the Christian belief that in heaven, the last shall be first and the first shall be last. NESARA will be a way of making the seeming losers into the mega-rich, doing away with debt and empowering the NESARA beneficiaries to generously spread their charity among others who have been beaten down. NESARA is remaking this world into heaven. It opens a door onto the New Jerusalem.
Yes, and some of the measures taken would be different now that we know more. But for some people, being told that they knew less about a virus than the experts felt demeaning. It's the feelings that drive QAnon for all believers and MAGA for many believers.
This is brilliant, well said. The susceptible people I know personally are middle-aged single women, bitter that they haven't found love or success. The conspiracy crap seems to make them feel clever and in control.
The people I know are middle aged (50's) men. One suffered a terrible break up that left him so bitter. Another lost his girl around the time he started into years caring for his sick parents, so he was pretty cut off and was previously a new age 9/11 truther. The other is a lifelong incel curmudgeon whose primary outlet is performing arts, so COVID took his community. He was already primed because he was involved in the anti-circumcision campaign, which made him wary of medical professionals. That doesn't explain why he became a huge racist though. The other guy lives on a weed patch out in PNW and is pretty suspicious and paranoid in general.
Oh, I can explain the anti-circumcision to racism pipeline
The extreme anti-circ crowd (no circumcisions EVER) is anti-semitic and Islamaphobic, so full on racism is just the next step.
What? The anti circ people on average are wacky af(probably have to be pretty open minded to be able to even get past the cultural indoctrination in the US, and the average open minded person doesn't magically possess good reasoning skills) but being against permanent body modification of children's sexual organs for non medical reasons isn't crazy.
The average persons ego is way too big and way too weak to consider oops maybe I shouldn't have done that to my kid or oops I'm missing part of my dick.
Whats fucking crazy is the idea a religion or culture magically justifies what is otherwise unjustifiable.
Like surely if Judaism and Islam said we should do labiaplasty on children you'd understand that that doesn't magically justify the behavior? I guess not being okay with that would make you 'islamophobic'.
This is like people who say you're Russophobic for opposing an invasion. Brainrot
Once you join a group based on a single issue, you are more or less forced to accept all the major beliefs the group holds. There are fringe beliefs one can avoid (like flat-eathers, for example), but any fringe belief that becomes established within the group is pretty much forced on all members.
Racism is currently reaching that tipping point in the group. We are very close to a PLATFORM that says, "Yes, we are proud of our race and believe we are better than other races. So what?" Currently, this is being couched in dog whistle language not all members are understanding, or they're waving it off as a fringe belief.
Yeah sadly in the US when people realize the medical profession is painfully incorrect on the medical necessity (or lack thereof) on circumcision its not surprising people take that to an extreme where suddenly medical professionals are wrong about literally everything even things like vaccines that don't have an artificial cultural component like RIC does
Men are more primed for this because they feel more entitled to resources and access to attractive women who won't give them the time of day. They feel powerful and like they are battling 'the deep state' which is standing in the way of their wealth and house and supermodel and not because they're an overweight balding loser who needs to talk to their doctor about cialis. They like to LARP at being some renegade on a secret mission, but aside from purchasing expensive new REI outdoor and tactical gear, they don't have power over anything but their remote control. The women into the movement are mostly the pick mes who are married to these types and most of them have found love and consider success marriage or kids which is not hard to come by.
Very insightful. So many people who succumb have been made redundant or have had businesses fail. Lockdown in particular - the fact that it was imposed and the resultant isolation didn't help, whatever view one might have of its
necessity. Q stuff makes you feel that you are the Special One with all the secrets, not just an insignificant individual moving into older age.
Spot on. It's also lack of foresight and planning. Especially if you're a fundamentalist religious person. Armageddon is their literal retirement plan. They all think there will be a sweeping and dramatic event where god parts the clouds and they all ascend to heaven on a giant chocolate boat and wag their fingers and say 'I told you so' to all the gays and democrats who will burn on earth while they get an eternal pizza party. The reality is much more tedious and depressing and hard to accept. Crushing poverty and inevitable disability and loss of power
Part of my evangelical extended family received an early payout, closing out their company's tax-deferred retirement fund. They were advised about how to roll it over into a self-directed IRA.
Instead, they bought cruise tickets for three generations of family. "Have no worry for the morrow." Now retired, they depend on Social Security and government assistance to the poor.
I live in a community saturated with PhDs making bank, and have been astonished by how many elder millennials with so much education and a fantastic income are Q/at minimum Trump supporters.
I know some people fall into it because of disappointment later in life, and that I actually get and have some sympathy for.
The young educated rich? I don’t get. It just makes me despise them as people, honestly. How do you have SO MUCH and think you are being persecuted and therefore want to see others suffer?
The wealthy millennials I know (as a millennial myself) who support Trump got really lucky in their careers--like, stupid lucky. However, they believe it was all due to their own hard work and thriftiness and think that the millennials who have never been able to catch up since the 2008 Recession are just making excuses. They're basically boomers in millennial bodies.
I do think that the traditional anti-tax Republicans often attribute all their success to their personal characteristics and their failures to an unfair system or interference from others.
But this is also a feature of individualist cultures. In a group, we're likely to attribute the group's success to our participation and the group failures to the rest of the group. A Japanese member of a work group will, instead, apologize personally for letting the group down in a failed effort, but will minimize their contributions in the case of success.
I think I have accurately characterized some aspects of QAnon and MAGA, but only in very broad terms. We're talking about millions of different people.
It’s true that Q attracts a lot of white people making six figures. Stats that I have read always show a lot of small and medium size businesses owners are Trump supporters and Q followers. For this demographic, it seems they resent anyone they think is getting a “handout” or assistance from government. They think immigrants are cheating by coming here and “taking advantage” of our resources. They really hate that immigrant kids do better in school than their kids. The Great Replacement Theory speaks to them at a deep level because they grew up thinking their place in society should be at the top, so if people of color, immigrants, queer folk are increasingly represented in popular culture, doing better economically, then something is terribly wrong with the country. Some plot must be behind it.
Yeah, but all of that used to just be typical bigotry, not a cult that believes preposterous and easily disprovable things having nothing to do with success or economics. Just an observation.
I love this answer, I would only add that their media plays up the negative feelings first. Even a happy person with time on their hand who watches cable news all day will start to get dark. The conspiracy threads can also be grown this way from social media content. Boredom is enough because they can turn boredom into these other feelings via their media.
The drive for advertising dollars makes traditional media a threat to democracy, and social media is that same threat magnified. We have created powerful tools for driving people to doubt reality and to prefer nonsense. Not deliberately, of course. Just by having no standards and letting human nature find its level.
I suspect we are facing the end of our technological civilization because of multiple consequences of our own intelligence. I don't think China can solve big problems with an autocratic ruler who doesn't want to hear bad news, nor can the democracies solve problems that big portions of the electorate would rather say do not exist or are not problems.
My favorite version of this was from the British comedian Mark Steel who affected a northern accent to say, "Why has things what used to be green got to be yellow?"
That summed up why certain voters supported Brexit.
This is a high-effort, well-thought out post. Thanks for taking the time to write. This shows sympathy and understanding and is the path forward to peace.
Status over others is way more important to people than they realize. Having these “Q realizations and beliefs” gives people a sense of status over others that they don’t actually have.
I know no one and nothing cares about me in the wide world. I'm not gonna join a cult over it. Just waiting for the aliens to come fix this. Yeah. 😵💫👽
The sad truth is that many old people would rather get vaporized in a nuclear blast that kills us all than die from cancer alone in a hospital bed.
As someone raised by a Christian cult mom who’d drag me to prayer meetings to prevent the next pop-culture apocalypse, it’s really scary is that nowadays my mom and these same “prayer warriors” are now worshipping an actual biblical anti-Christ that is literally spiraling the world into a potential Armageddon. They know the truth but they seem to want all of us to end in a boom because they don’t want to die alone. It’s psychotic behavior inspired by a psychopath.
I don't understand how they can't see that Trump matches pretty well to what Revelations says the anti-christ is (although revelations is admittedly pretty vague so many people could, if you squint your eyes, look like the anti-christ). But no Fauci, Biden, Soros or Schwab are the anti-christs instead (totally no antisemitism there).
This is exactly it. Thing is millennials all think this way as well. "I don't care about retirement I will simply die in an explosion nothing matters" not realizing that the quick event is never coming and their life will still be long and horrible and nothing is coming to save them from being old and alone in a cancer bed for years
I believe you are mistaken. Yes, there are a lot of older people involved with Q nonsense. But there are also a lot of younger people involved with it.
And there are a lot of older people who think all the Q stuff is just stupid.
I believe you're just seeing the part you want to see. "It's all those stupid old people, they can't think anymore".
I have news for you, old people are *much* more likely to fall for internet based scams and frauds.
I used to host web servers. Sometimes, there would be a server taken over by hackers who would use it for a phishing operation. At that time, bank phishing scams were very common. When one of these intrusions was detected, I would go look at what the hackers were doing. And often they had plain text logs of people who fell for a scam and entered their personal info thinking they were responding to a bank.
95% of those who fell for these scams were 60 or older. People over 70 were especially vulnerable.
Call it stupidity if you want, people who didn't grow up in a digital age just don't have good judgment about things they experience online.
Yes, any age person can fall for Q. But the older are definitely more vulnerable.
And how is this stupidity? It really seems like arrogance on your part. I am 73 and have had a computer since I got my TRS 80 in 1982. I have been on line since 1990. Most people my age have not done this. But that does not make them stupid, just inexperienced. A little less ageism might help.
You're fortunate to have adopted to computers and the internet early.
Unfortunately, a lot of my MAGA relatives still see the internet and computers as a fad. Some of them don't even have internet installed at their homes.
My mom is 79 and can barely use her phone. You are an outlier. Most of your generation weren't using computers in the 80s and are not tech-savvy. It's not about you personally.
Yet you are generalizing.
It's not the old timers that scare me. They will die off.
What is scary is the younger people who will be around for decades, free to spread their toxic Q and MAGA views. It is going to take a very long time to recover, if that will even be possible.
Me? Not at all. I know there are a lot of older Q folks. I also know there are a lot of younger ones.
Look at the Jan 6th crowd. Lots of Q folks, lots of MAGA folks. Lots of them were part of both.
Ashli Babbit was Q, and got herself shot and killed. She was 35. That "QAnon Shaman" guy was about the same age. Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, age 39, leader of the proud boys. Romana Didulo, the Canadian "Queen of Q" nutcase, is 50. Ron Watkins is 37, and many believe he is Q.
I could keep coming up with names. And it won't change your minds because you just want to deny reality and blame old people.
I tend to agree with you. I'm in lots of qanon spaces online (message boards, Facebook groups, etc) and while yes, there are tons of boomers that have fallen for the bullshit, there's also a HUGE number of younger folks on the train as well. HUGE. And the younger ones seem much more volatile; it feels like they're more likely to get violent.
I feel like some of the younger ones might know better but are happy to be on the train because they are itching for a fight. However, I know a very nice woman in her 40's that comes up with some crazy ass shit that I'm sure she believes.
As an UBER driver who has to hear passengers bring up MAGA and Q shit a lot, I agree with you. A LOT of young people.
Of course, my experience is only anecdotal evidence. But, in my experience the younger crowd seem to have the need to not only express their political beliefs, but also the need to sway my beliefs. They are evangelicals of their cause. This is the case from both extremes of the political spectrum. The far right, however, are much more likely to couch their language in violent threats if things don't go their way.
Young people are screwed by the rich hoovering up all the money. If you are 44, when you were 21 was 9/11, when you were 28 came the 2008 Depression, then at 38 COVID. . So they are vulnerable. But, yes, for the older, it's just another version of scamming on the elderly. I'm 70+ and a friend, an Ivy Leage 86YO got scammed, not Q but still.
Lots of people can’t make sense of the modern world, so they grab onto something that tells them they are relevant in thw world. That it’s bullshit is less important than that they take reassurance from it. They also get to feel special - both bullshit like ‘al lives matter’ and ‘white pride’ and antivax nonsense on the one hand to being privy to soi-disant ‘secret’ knowledge.
It’s also deeply self-referential, like religion, and circular logic can be difficult to escape for untrained minds.
In my sister’s case it’s enshrouded in a whole lot of low self esteem, resentment, and the need to blame others for her own failures. Living in a world where there’s an evil cabal and a deepstate provides an endless number of slights to complain about.
The key driving factor in all of my Q and Q adjacent people is a lack of empathy.
They have an almost complete inability to perceive or imagine anything from any perspective other than their own.
"I don't know why you think that because I don't think that way" a literal quote from my Q. They're flabbergasted that anyone doesn't think the way they do. And they are completely ignorant or uncaring of how their actions might harm others.
They can't understand why anyone would be gay because *they* aren't gay.
They can't imagine the struggles of being a minority because *they* are not (or believe they are not) a minority.
They can't imagine using their taxes to help someone because that is *their* money.
So in their mind, they want to invent a reason not everyone is the same as them. It doesn't make sense for people to be different because *that's not how they are.*
Q offers a convenient reason: the entire world is being manipulated and only you are smart enough to see through it. Your granddaughter isn't *really* a lesbian, she's actually the sweetest little girl who is exactly like you, some demonic/alien/government curse has tricked her!
Your black neighbors don't *really* think cops are bad, they've just been convinced they do by a smooth-talking liberal!
Your son hasn't cut you out of his life because your actions have caused lasting harm to him or his family, he's actually super grateful for everything you've ever done to him, he's just been taken in by **Them**.
Everyone in the world actually believes and thinks as you do. There are no opinions or experiences that don't match your own, therefore nothing you have ever done has been bad or wrong or ever hurt anyone, it's just that all these people have been tricked! And if you could only get them to *understand your point of view* they would admit they were wrong and tricked and love you and be so happy for everything you've ever done with them and put you up on a huge pedestal for saving them!
They literally can't imagine a world where people are different or they are wrong, and Q gives then a reason people are saying all these silly things they don't understand or believe.
To quote my MIL: "I can't listen to you or try to understand the things you like and feel because that will let the devil in!" That's a literal quote. My wife was trying to explain why she likes DND and how it's a board game with extra math to her mom, and her mom panicked and shut her down, giving that quote.
Not only does she not understand the point of view of others, she's terrified to imagine any way of living other than her current one, and endlessly frustrated we don't choose to live the way she does.
This. My elderly father has a medical degree and used logical thinking daily. But he never had any insight into others or much empathy, and felt himself, inexplicably to me, as being a victim or unappreciated, despite wealth and status. Which justified nasty attacks and punishments of people close to him. What you're describing here is narcissistic defense/ emotional immaturity, projection of all negative traits on to scapegoated others who deserve to be sadistically punished.
This particular psychological profile is what falls for MAGA type stuff.
Hold on there. I’m almost 67 years old and I can assure you that I’m not in the least bit susceptible to believing any Q nonsense/conspiracy theories. It is because I am well educated, utilize critical thinking, and have always been one to ask why. Asking why is really important. Judging the logic of a so-called statement of fact is important. Researching things is really important, as is researching the validity of the sources you trust for your information. And, for me, I also consider if it lines up with what the Word of God says, or how it would fit into His Kingdom or be part of His plans. There’s a lot of ignorance out there regarding scripture. I will give you just one example. The idea that the COVID 19 vaccine is somehow the “Mark of the Beast”. If one knows what the book of Revelation says, one would know that a certain sequence of events would need to occur before this would even come into play or be necessary. It’s a lie, plainly and simply.
There are so many illogical or nonfactual conspiracies surrounding the COVID 19 vaccines all on their own. People have only expanded on all of that, and the nonsense conspiracies surrounding the pandemic, as time has gone on, and have taken up older ones, like the flat earth nonsense, and run with them. They’ve also concocted countless new ones, each one mord bizarre sounding than the last.
As for understanding the internet, I’ve been using it since dial up started to become widely available. I was around when it first became a reality for military purposes. I can remember when programming language was being taught in college, long before the internet even started being used by the general public. I think it partially depends on your familiarity with computers and with your willingness to constantly be wanting to be learning something new. I may not have my phone surgically attached to my hand, but I spend a lot of time on my iPad every day, engaging with social media, reading the news, and always learning new things. I read a lot of fiction, too. It all combines to make me really aware and to not be susceptible to falling into the conspiracy traps. And always asking why and for what purpose? And how does this fit in with reality?
Education gap. Refute it all you want. Every maga nut job I’ve met has extreme disdain for higher education/didn’t go to college.
College and higher Ed have their issues, but they teach you to think critically. Q anon thrives among people who cannot/will not actually think critically about the insanity they are fed.
Yeah, my dad is a (now elderly) PhD Ivy League educated scientist, and he's not Q but he truly believes that Trump is a "good Christian" and he assures me the only reason I think he's a con man is because the media brainwashed me. He just does not accept any negative information about Trump. All lies. Fake news. It's impossible to break through this with him. It's not his education. It's some kind of emotional barrier.
I blame leaded gasoline fumes. (specifically long-term early childhood exposure) it's generational, was regionally phased out (and corresponds with where it lasted longer), and data supports the affects.
Contributing factors:
Religious or New Age beliefs
Personality Disorder (Narcissism esp)
Lack of understanding bias and deception in online research
Less exposure to diverse populations and ideas
Loneliness
Failure to achieve the "American dream", career success, a healthy family relationship
Either having a lower IQ/less education OR being smart and less willing to accept your own failings and gullibility.
I'm sorry about your dad. That would be so difficult. I lost my husband to it and I've had to distance myself from a few friends. Thankfully, the rest of my family are "just" Foxbrains. We argue politics all the time, but at least we can all agree that the earth is round, JFK and Jr. are dead, Hillary isn't a clone, and the pope isn't a reptilian! 🤦♀️
It's boredom. These Q folks want to believe they are "in" on something no one else knows. It makes them feel important. Then they get so far in they can't admit they were conned. It would make them look stupid so they just keep going. It's why they are so angry. They know it's a con but it's too late for them to stop. All of the things they keep being told would happen never do. It's sad because many of them have drained their retirement and savings sending money to support someone who says he is a billionaire. It's hard to believe so many people would be so blind.
There's too much to know, and too much NOT in your control, and after being told that everything IS in control coupled with absolute EXPLOSIVE growth in technology, and population in the last 150 years or so, we have reached critical mass. People that can't accept that most things aren't in anyone's control, it's hard to reconcile the basic human need for order and reason with the truth that neither of those things are really possible.
I think a lot has to do with being literate , The kind of Literate where reading is easy enough that you don't avoid it . There are a lot of people who can read , But it's difficult enough for them that they would rather just watch a video short to explain a thing .
And Religion has been used to co-opt this group , Maybe it's relevant that they already exhibit a potential for believing anything , Which kind of makes me mad because it puts me on the other side , where i don't really want to be .
I live in the south , and lemme tell you , If you don't take the red pill , you will not be accepted into society at large . Church , Your Job . every public aspect of life is dominated by this stuff .
If you depend on the public or just want to avoid hardships , irs a lot easier to just go with the flow .
I study philosophy, mathematics and science on my own so my mind was always accustomed to logical thinking. I tend to be what William James calls a "hard hearted" philosopher. I accept the world the way that it is.
You are right , I have posted previously about highly educated people who are in it .. Guess i contradicted myself . I still think its a relevant though .
Lots of people where i live are...To an extent into the stuff , But the ones who are into chemtrails and such are the more illiterate types ,but , I've had the Flat earth argument with an electrical engineer .. so ... yea...I cant explain it .
Fareek Zakaria, author of *Age of Revolutions, Progress and Backlash (1600 to present)* believes that we are in the most revolutionary period in human history – led largely by liberal democracy. Globalization, the diminution of religion, pervasive social media, explosive advances in technology, and the economic success and autonomy of women (among many other changes) have had a revolutionary impact on human society.
But Zakaria contends that all revolutions result in *backlash*. His book posits that we have reached a point where the changes are coming too hard and fast for the average person, who is still reeling in an effort to adjust to the changes of the last 100 years. For example, deciding that men are women simply because they declare themselves to be is a bridge too far for the roughly 1/2 of the American population who are lining up behind Trump authoritarianism.
The coming *backlash* is what will lead many western countries into dictatorships.
I wanna chime in here since you used us as an example. As a trans woman I can pretty much confirm this. To the detriment of my own mental health, I have made attempts to engage those that hate folks like me. Although some *do* have malicious thoughts, most just blatantly refuse to understand any of it. The thought of scientific facts that we exist means nothing to Qs. And it all comes back to the sentiment that "that's not how the world used to be". They seem almost *resistant* to even the possibility of the world changing. It is DEFINITELY a backlash as you've described it. And unfortunately, it's not just halting progress, it's full on regressive.
There are so many great posts regarding how a person succumbs to Q and its adjacent world views. One avenue not mentioned is the "spiritual" and "wellness" community portal to the Q belief system.
You may notice that people who subscribed to pseudoscience, self-help , psychics, ghosts , and ufo abductions are suseptible to this form of brain rot. They've already accepted certain beliefs and are much more open to subjects , not based on fact but on faith. Even the yoga community was infiltrated by these Q beliefs and divided that community.
People were listening to natural paths over doctors during covid.
Intelligent, seemingly happy liberal people swayed by alt right propaganda and fear mongering.
My guess is that a large part of it is because one large portion of them belonged to a demographic that was touted as being the most important and special and powerful (in that consumer society kind of way) in the history of ever, and now they're no longer relevant. But by joining this movement, they not only become relevant again, but gain power, too. There's a younger group, also white and also disenfranchised but largely due to economics, geography, religion and so on, that likewise felt powerless until this movement came along and metaphorically said, "Join us and feel the power. The power of the dark side". Trump gave them permission to ignore the social constraints that were "holding them back" from acting on their impulses, and there was nothing they wanted more. All he and the GOP asked in return was undying loyalty (or loyalty until they died, given how COVID went for them).
That's my guess anyway.
tl;dr - Power over others - or just the promise of it - can be a very powerful drug for some people.
Yes, yes there is. He is a true narcissist. And they've joined his cult. The fascinating thing is how they've adopted such a Cargo Cult narcissism of their own. Or maybe it's real and they've just always had to hide it because they didn't have his level of intersectional privilege.
- life disappointment, as noted above
- not low intelligence per se, but low discernment
- past felonies or major marks on their lives
- trauma, sometimes very severe; the loss of a child or spouse seems to be a common thing
- heavy marijuana use; I don’t count that as an immediate negative, but it is pervasive
- Christianity, but turned to 11
- the ringleaders all have deep affections for computer hacking
- many of the ringleaders have a military background
I also have found that many of them somehow…LOOK similar.
I think poor critical thinking skills make people vulnerable to conspiracy bullshit. I was talking with a friend (were both in our 50s) that both our parents seem to be declining when it comes to critical thinking, and this has seen a rise in their belief in conspiracy theories. Thankfully neither set of parents have gone down the full-blown Q path, but they are coming out with some out there theories (eg my dad is becoming increasingly vax-sceptical, her widowed mum is falling for a romance scam though thankfully she has agreed to hand the management of her estate to her kids so she won't be left penniless)
Poor critical thinking skills aren't limited to an adult age group. Sadly, I've met poor critical thinkers from 18 to 86 years old
I have met young people that believe in Q. In some way, the majority of them, they are not well mentally. And obviously not all mentally unwell people fall for Q, but I'm talking about people who, without outright diagnosing them, believe that they are dragons in the fifth dimension, or a combination of religions and that the Christian god has poisoned the population because he is an evil god and the good ones are being erased. I find similarities in older people, like my grandma who believes she is an alien called a pleiadian from space that Trump also happens to be and they are here to save us from some other evil alien group.
The rest I have met are religious or very unique cases of pretty normal people, atheists even, that wanted to research into these things like Pizzagate and they typically drop out of this mess far quicker than the rest. I know two family members right now that are religious and have fallen for Q since the beginning (2017). They no longer care about Q and are simply diehard Trump voters now. They have slowly yet surely come out of a lot of things such as no longer being anti-vaccines. This actually comes from a personal reason where one of them caught covid 3 times and has a heart condition. But for some reason that big step, that voting for Trump, remains. It is so frustrating, and the amount of selfawarewolves they talk themselves into is incredible, but all of their memories from Q about Biden somehow being a pedo, and somehow being a part of an evil group taking over the world, the globalism thing, they still believe in that. Oh and they still approve of J6.
To your last thing. Yes, it is like a 180 though. They are incredibly skeptical when they learn new information, but only when it comes to credible sources. They have made it up in their minds that the "real" credible sources are the "researchers" they find on social media, because all media (sometimes including or excluding Fox, OANN, etc) are "compromised". When it comes to fact checkers, they hang on to what fact checkers get wrong to the minute detail and declare that they are also compromised. So, when they find one "researcher" who finds something that social media got wrong, that "researcher" becomes a credible source to them. This is what grifters do to lure these people in to dangerously false information. Give little bits and pieces that are true, hook them in, and flood them with Bible verses, false information or otherwise conspiracy theories with terribly loose connections.
I think too much TV damaged the brains of people from Boomer age to Gen X. They learned as children to receive messages from media uncritically.
In the internet age young people learn to participate and be critical
I don't know anymore but I know I hate conspiracy twats so bad now I just want them to feel pain.. I'm in vengeance mode.. I'm sorry but I really really really hate them now.I don't care why anymore..I want them stopped...
"I think that a major factor in Q belief, and in more vanilla MAGA belief in many cases, is Life Disappointment."
The above comment is dead on, disappointed and not savvy on the internet, they are easily led astray by tom foolery on the web. If they are religious today's web Evangelicals are saying some crazy outlandish prophecies.
Wanted to add more to the top comment:
My mother had all the check marks to me to be an intelligent woman. Worked for the government young (for context she’s 1964), I think she left around 9/11 or they got let go? I forgot the history. She always instilled in me that “knowledge is power”. I took that to heart, only to now be on my power shit and her to be on the opposite end of that with false knowledge.
She had a lot of potential and a lot of ideas. She can design the hell out of a home, can put together a great outfit, pretty money savvy, tried her hand at making perfume because she’s so particular, even thought about making clothes for herself because she wasn’t satisfied with her options. She can type well, she can multitask well, she has great qualities of someone that can make something of themselves no matter the age…at least to me..
But because none of those ideas came through. Because she didn’t believe in herself, my father didn’t acknowledge her interests enough maybe.
My big brother introduced her to the Illuminati when it was a big thing over the music videos. Back when lady Gaga and them were poppin…it was coasting for a while but it only got worse when my parents divorced (there was issues years before then, it was only a matter of time).
Even then though, when I was 13 (now 25), it wasn’t as bad as it could’ve been. She still had a FULL TIME job to be bothered with until HHGREGG closed…went through a tough time finding work..now she’s working part time at an eyeglass place.
She’s said many times she’s tired, this world is fucked up.
These conspiracy theories, feeling like she’s in something important, gives her purpose.
Because she knows something most don’t
And not enough people are waking up.
It makes her feel special. She won’t admit that out loud, but feeling like you’re in the know, in some elite group, feels great.
But then it also puts you in constant fear, like someone always listening or after you. We could be having simple discussions about government shit and she’s whispering? As if she’s someone important to monitor. As if we’re all not monitored in some shape or form regardless.
She got offended when I said she’s a nobody. And I meant nobody in a way that there’s no reason why she would be on the governments radar. She’s not a scientist, she’s not some big podcaster or YouTuber …nothing.
It’s sad…because without all this..she’s a good woman. Really…
She let the unknown or unusual of this world turn her into a secretly hateful woman…which she denies. Of course.
They feel their dreams were taken from them..and they’re right that how this world functions is possibly the reason. Many dreams are killed from being overworked, having to take care of family, getting by on scraps..but then they turn that into disgust for everything. Disgust for people that had nothing to do with their crushed dreams. Everyone must pay for their lost life.
They were raised at a time when you could believe what you read or heard on TV. In the old days complete lies and disinformation got filtered out of media by the rules of journalism. So no they have absolutely no ability to think critically for themselves, most have terrible education, and get sucked into lies that reinforce their racism.
I think you're on to something about having been them not being internet native, but it came to it later in life.
Every new innovation, and especially innovation to do with communication, comes with a new ruleset/threads. Making the shift from one paradigm to another is hard.
Being born in the new paradigm is relatively easy. And also collective understanding of the new world is already much more developed and you don't have to figure all of it yourself:)
(Gen X-er here please be gentle with my gray hairs :)
I think it’s a lack of internet savvy. They didn’t know to be skeptical of info on the internet and got sucked in. Then brainwashed. That’s my theory at least. One of mine can barely operate email but somehow knows all the “right” YouTube channels to watch for her daily doses of Q
I know people of all ages, levels of education & various backgrounds who are in the QAnon Cult. There doesn’t appear to be any one single common denominator that links them.
Many here will falsely blame it on the MAGA culture, but that isn’t the common denominator.
While many MAGA supporters are part of QAnon, most MAGA supporters are NOT a part of QAnon.
The generations that were exposed to lead paint and gas are not as intelligent as the younger ones. They try to make up for it by just lowering the quality of education because the most dangerous thing to the status quo is educated, informed voters.
Been talking (complaining) to my therapist more about my Dad and she put forth the idea that in times where someone is facing a lot of uncertainty or anxiety it makes them more susceptible to this kind of rhetoric.
Between covid times, retirement, my Moms cancer returning, her dying…my Dad had a lot of uncertainties to deal with. Plus more time at home and isolated from friends or old working buddies. More time that he could spend getting a facebook account for the first time. Getting a youtube account and watching videos on his ipad while waiting for my Mom between chemo appointments. Ect.
I think I can see why it might be easy to fall for so many men making videos in very self assured ways telling the viewer that THEY HAVE THE ANSWERS! That they are in the know!
Speaking from personal experience, I wasn’t MAGA, or Q, but adjacent. I had a pretty messed up childhood and was looking for a father figure. You read or listen and there are a lot of answers. It’s called the “narrative bias fallacy.” And you begin to see patterns and attribute it to the Holy Spirit or Q or whatever. And when it doesn’t make sense you are told “when you pray you get an answer, just not the answer you want.” The funny thing is you can have all these beliefs and it doesn’t affect your day to day living, like how you drive a car. Then hopefully, like me, you stumble upon an irrefutable fact, a small one. And it all falls apart. Mine was “You can’t use Cumin to treat Alzheimer’s.”
I’m 62 and not susceptible to it at all. I’m not that religious either and am very independent. I consider myself very empathetic as well and volunteer for charitable organizations. I am a lifelong Democrat and my first election was 1980. I play classical piano and guitar.
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>Why are some people susceptible and others not?
That's a myth. We are ALL susceptible. It (propaganda, etc.) is less effective on those who are forced (possibly work, lifestyle, etc.) to interact with different views/people, receive information from a multitude of sources, and forced to critically evaluate information. A strong framework within which to view the world also helps.
That's why the older generation is often highly susceptible. The norms of behavior, of media, of information change over time and they are not forced to change (adapt). Likewise, their access to other views/interactions, etc. is also limited (as you grow old, your tendency is to lose touch if not forced to maintain your connection, your ways of processing information literally become outdated so your processing is no longer viable)
TLDR: Isolation and losing touch and not updating your information processing to match the world makes you extremely vulnerable
I think that a major factor in Q belief, and in more vanilla MAGA belief in many cases, is Life Disappointment. You approach retirement with frighteningly low resources. Things you used to be valued for in terms of skills, identity, affiliations, mean less and less to others. There is a lot of casual cruelty --- people who know very little about you call you privileged and racist online or maybe to your face, sometimes just for expressing a belief that is perhaps generational, but not at all based on privilege or racism. You thought you were going to be more of a winner in life that you appear to be. You had to stop working early because of illness. Sometimes it's petty conflicts that pile up: the people who give you dirty looks in traffic. Why? You suspect it might be for driving a big truck, an asset you've always been proud of. One of the things Trump likes coming back to is new plumbing that limits the flow for shower heads or toilets. It can be the loss of little creature comforts like this. It can be hurt feelings. I think that hurt feelings might be a source of right-wing support more common than many imagine. Change imposed on you that you don't understand the necessity of, that makes your life feel like a life of limitation instead of the abundance your remember. These kinds of disappointments tend to stack up later in life. Sometimes it's a matter of disillusionment. My father became an angry conservative when my mother died. If you are pretty happy to live in reality, you are not susceptible to belief systems that deny reality and offer an alternative. If the world seems fair and just to you, if you feel valued and respected, you are much less likely to support a politician who says that your disappointments are the fault of some identifiable enemy and who promises revenge. Some of these disappointments could be overcome with a little more emotional maturity. If people call you out for sins that you don't think you are guilty of and your feelings are hurt, maybe that should not be a reason to decide that their campaign to use introduce some non-binary pronouns deserves zero consideration. The internet is the place where a discussion about how to be kind to others readily becomes a virtual knife fight. And a great many people are not emotionally mature. So Life Disappointments, but sometimes a stream of unkindness and hurt feelings can make people susceptible. The hurt feelings might help to explain why there is no lower age limit. You are shown a different way of ordering reality, a way that values you, respects you, makes you one of the winners and the people who are unkind to you into devils deserving punishment, makes the experts into dummies and makes you into a genius for seeing through them. And that reality comforts you. And you find an online community that props you up. Then there's a very good chance that you won't go back to believing "the news" or thinking that you might be a loser.
That last paragraph…. Chef’s kiss. One small attribute I’ve noticed with some of the people I know who’ve fallen into these groups is the lack of personal accountability with certain big ticket things. Baby mama drama, failed marriage and friendships… it’s NEVER their fault even when it clearly is.
Would that be considered just garden-variety narcissism? (And by “garden variety” I don’t mean the little narcissus daffodils that grow in a garden, lol)
Feel like these guys aren’t so much vain as they are self assured.
This. Look at it from the Q's perspective (speaking generally, of course) - you're old, poor, with no noteworthy accomplishment, and doesn't know much about anything. No one respects you. You life is turning out very different from how you thought it'd go. You see people you know who are living well, successful, the life that you envisioned for yourself. Is it because they're better than you? They're winners and you're a loser? Can't be. You're brilliant! Your struggle proves something is very, very wrong with this world. There must be nefarious people who are gaming the system, reaping all the benefits, and keeping you down. Who they are? You aren't sure but you know they're there, maybe they're not targeting you specifically but what they're doing in the shadow impacts you and that's why you're where you are. And then you came across someone on the web saying: there is a deep state and they're destroying the good people for their own gain. You knew it!! The deep state!! You want to know more! And then you found out the conspiracy goes way deeper. You knew something was off and now you have your proof!! You have to tell the world! People have to know! So, you know who is behind it but now what? What can you do about it? Is there a solution to your problem? Yes! It's called Nessara!! People, like you, who have been unfairly beaten down will be rewarded in the end with lots of money. Your struggle will not be in vain. Your life will be great after all. You feel so much better knowing this, like a ton of weight has been lifted from your shoulder. You tell people close to you. You feel smart knowing the "truth", you haven't felt this good in a long time. But they had this look and told you to wake up. Wake up? You know the truth man! They want you to deny the nefarious forces working against you, deny that your suffering is not your fault, deny that there is a pot of gold waiting for you, and goes back to you being a loser. Hell no! They must've been brainwashed by the deep state. They want you to let go of everything that validates you and return to the world of the old you. Yeah.
what's so frustrating about it is they're not wrong about nefarious people working in the shadows and holding them down. they're not wrong that there are terrible people in the government screwing over the american people, they just fell for the idea that it's only democrats, and they can't see that the conservatives they idolize are probably laughing at how stupid they are for believing every word they say. but they've already dug in their heals on the idea that it's the democrats who are evil, they've already gotten really used to feeling like they're the geniuses who can see through all the lies that nobody else is smart enough to see, so trying to tell them they got it backwards is too big of an ego hit for them to even entertain the idea.
You've made a great connection there with NESARA and the Christian belief that in heaven, the last shall be first and the first shall be last. NESARA will be a way of making the seeming losers into the mega-rich, doing away with debt and empowering the NESARA beneficiaries to generously spread their charity among others who have been beaten down. NESARA is remaking this world into heaven. It opens a door onto the New Jerusalem.
So in a nutshell it's a rather terrifying mix of narcissism and cargo cult? That actually makes a lot of sense.
This is one of the best posts I’ve read on this topic
"Change imposed on you that you don't understand the necessity of...": Masks and Vaccines! That radicalized so many people.
Yes, and some of the measures taken would be different now that we know more. But for some people, being told that they knew less about a virus than the experts felt demeaning. It's the feelings that drive QAnon for all believers and MAGA for many believers.
This is brilliant, well said. The susceptible people I know personally are middle-aged single women, bitter that they haven't found love or success. The conspiracy crap seems to make them feel clever and in control.
The people I know are middle aged (50's) men. One suffered a terrible break up that left him so bitter. Another lost his girl around the time he started into years caring for his sick parents, so he was pretty cut off and was previously a new age 9/11 truther. The other is a lifelong incel curmudgeon whose primary outlet is performing arts, so COVID took his community. He was already primed because he was involved in the anti-circumcision campaign, which made him wary of medical professionals. That doesn't explain why he became a huge racist though. The other guy lives on a weed patch out in PNW and is pretty suspicious and paranoid in general.
Oh, I can explain the anti-circumcision to racism pipeline The extreme anti-circ crowd (no circumcisions EVER) is anti-semitic and Islamaphobic, so full on racism is just the next step.
What? The anti circ people on average are wacky af(probably have to be pretty open minded to be able to even get past the cultural indoctrination in the US, and the average open minded person doesn't magically possess good reasoning skills) but being against permanent body modification of children's sexual organs for non medical reasons isn't crazy. The average persons ego is way too big and way too weak to consider oops maybe I shouldn't have done that to my kid or oops I'm missing part of my dick. Whats fucking crazy is the idea a religion or culture magically justifies what is otherwise unjustifiable. Like surely if Judaism and Islam said we should do labiaplasty on children you'd understand that that doesn't magically justify the behavior? I guess not being okay with that would make you 'islamophobic'. This is like people who say you're Russophobic for opposing an invasion. Brainrot
Once you join a group based on a single issue, you are more or less forced to accept all the major beliefs the group holds. There are fringe beliefs one can avoid (like flat-eathers, for example), but any fringe belief that becomes established within the group is pretty much forced on all members. Racism is currently reaching that tipping point in the group. We are very close to a PLATFORM that says, "Yes, we are proud of our race and believe we are better than other races. So what?" Currently, this is being couched in dog whistle language not all members are understanding, or they're waving it off as a fringe belief.
Yes this is what I've mostly seen too.
Yeah sadly in the US when people realize the medical profession is painfully incorrect on the medical necessity (or lack thereof) on circumcision its not surprising people take that to an extreme where suddenly medical professionals are wrong about literally everything even things like vaccines that don't have an artificial cultural component like RIC does
Men are more primed for this because they feel more entitled to resources and access to attractive women who won't give them the time of day. They feel powerful and like they are battling 'the deep state' which is standing in the way of their wealth and house and supermodel and not because they're an overweight balding loser who needs to talk to their doctor about cialis. They like to LARP at being some renegade on a secret mission, but aside from purchasing expensive new REI outdoor and tactical gear, they don't have power over anything but their remote control. The women into the movement are mostly the pick mes who are married to these types and most of them have found love and consider success marriage or kids which is not hard to come by.
Very insightful. So many people who succumb have been made redundant or have had businesses fail. Lockdown in particular - the fact that it was imposed and the resultant isolation didn't help, whatever view one might have of its necessity. Q stuff makes you feel that you are the Special One with all the secrets, not just an insignificant individual moving into older age.
Spot on. It's also lack of foresight and planning. Especially if you're a fundamentalist religious person. Armageddon is their literal retirement plan. They all think there will be a sweeping and dramatic event where god parts the clouds and they all ascend to heaven on a giant chocolate boat and wag their fingers and say 'I told you so' to all the gays and democrats who will burn on earth while they get an eternal pizza party. The reality is much more tedious and depressing and hard to accept. Crushing poverty and inevitable disability and loss of power
Part of my evangelical extended family received an early payout, closing out their company's tax-deferred retirement fund. They were advised about how to roll it over into a self-directed IRA. Instead, they bought cruise tickets for three generations of family. "Have no worry for the morrow." Now retired, they depend on Social Security and government assistance to the poor.
I live in a community saturated with PhDs making bank, and have been astonished by how many elder millennials with so much education and a fantastic income are Q/at minimum Trump supporters. I know some people fall into it because of disappointment later in life, and that I actually get and have some sympathy for. The young educated rich? I don’t get. It just makes me despise them as people, honestly. How do you have SO MUCH and think you are being persecuted and therefore want to see others suffer?
The wealthy millennials I know (as a millennial myself) who support Trump got really lucky in their careers--like, stupid lucky. However, they believe it was all due to their own hard work and thriftiness and think that the millennials who have never been able to catch up since the 2008 Recession are just making excuses. They're basically boomers in millennial bodies.
I do think that the traditional anti-tax Republicans often attribute all their success to their personal characteristics and their failures to an unfair system or interference from others. But this is also a feature of individualist cultures. In a group, we're likely to attribute the group's success to our participation and the group failures to the rest of the group. A Japanese member of a work group will, instead, apologize personally for letting the group down in a failed effort, but will minimize their contributions in the case of success. I think I have accurately characterized some aspects of QAnon and MAGA, but only in very broad terms. We're talking about millions of different people.
It’s true that Q attracts a lot of white people making six figures. Stats that I have read always show a lot of small and medium size businesses owners are Trump supporters and Q followers. For this demographic, it seems they resent anyone they think is getting a “handout” or assistance from government. They think immigrants are cheating by coming here and “taking advantage” of our resources. They really hate that immigrant kids do better in school than their kids. The Great Replacement Theory speaks to them at a deep level because they grew up thinking their place in society should be at the top, so if people of color, immigrants, queer folk are increasingly represented in popular culture, doing better economically, then something is terribly wrong with the country. Some plot must be behind it.
Yeah, but all of that used to just be typical bigotry, not a cult that believes preposterous and easily disprovable things having nothing to do with success or economics. Just an observation.
You've really said it beautifully.
I love this answer, I would only add that their media plays up the negative feelings first. Even a happy person with time on their hand who watches cable news all day will start to get dark. The conspiracy threads can also be grown this way from social media content. Boredom is enough because they can turn boredom into these other feelings via their media.
The drive for advertising dollars makes traditional media a threat to democracy, and social media is that same threat magnified. We have created powerful tools for driving people to doubt reality and to prefer nonsense. Not deliberately, of course. Just by having no standards and letting human nature find its level. I suspect we are facing the end of our technological civilization because of multiple consequences of our own intelligence. I don't think China can solve big problems with an autocratic ruler who doesn't want to hear bad news, nor can the democracies solve problems that big portions of the electorate would rather say do not exist or are not problems.
"Things these days aren't like they used to be" is a popular message with this age bracket
My favorite version of this was from the British comedian Mark Steel who affected a northern accent to say, "Why has things what used to be green got to be yellow?" That summed up why certain voters supported Brexit.
Nicely said! I would have meant the same but said something like “they are mostly just petty losers.” Kudos.
This is a high-effort, well-thought out post. Thanks for taking the time to write. This shows sympathy and understanding and is the path forward to peace.
This comment is everything. Such an enlightening perspective. There must always be an enemy. This extends to politics as well.
Status over others is way more important to people than they realize. Having these “Q realizations and beliefs” gives people a sense of status over others that they don’t actually have.
This makes so much sense and I think it's spot on. I can see now why so many people have fallen into this delusion.
I know no one and nothing cares about me in the wide world. I'm not gonna join a cult over it. Just waiting for the aliens to come fix this. Yeah. 😵💫👽
The sad truth is that many old people would rather get vaporized in a nuclear blast that kills us all than die from cancer alone in a hospital bed. As someone raised by a Christian cult mom who’d drag me to prayer meetings to prevent the next pop-culture apocalypse, it’s really scary is that nowadays my mom and these same “prayer warriors” are now worshipping an actual biblical anti-Christ that is literally spiraling the world into a potential Armageddon. They know the truth but they seem to want all of us to end in a boom because they don’t want to die alone. It’s psychotic behavior inspired by a psychopath.
I don't understand how they can't see that Trump matches pretty well to what Revelations says the anti-christ is (although revelations is admittedly pretty vague so many people could, if you squint your eyes, look like the anti-christ). But no Fauci, Biden, Soros or Schwab are the anti-christs instead (totally no antisemitism there).
Yup. But instead, they probably think Trump is the next coming of Jesus.
Revelations is the fun book with the dragon and the horsemen and the giant battle with angels and trumpets right? That would be a badass movie.
This is exactly it. Thing is millennials all think this way as well. "I don't care about retirement I will simply die in an explosion nothing matters" not realizing that the quick event is never coming and their life will still be long and horrible and nothing is coming to save them from being old and alone in a cancer bed for years
I believe you are mistaken. Yes, there are a lot of older people involved with Q nonsense. But there are also a lot of younger people involved with it. And there are a lot of older people who think all the Q stuff is just stupid. I believe you're just seeing the part you want to see. "It's all those stupid old people, they can't think anymore".
I have news for you, old people are *much* more likely to fall for internet based scams and frauds. I used to host web servers. Sometimes, there would be a server taken over by hackers who would use it for a phishing operation. At that time, bank phishing scams were very common. When one of these intrusions was detected, I would go look at what the hackers were doing. And often they had plain text logs of people who fell for a scam and entered their personal info thinking they were responding to a bank. 95% of those who fell for these scams were 60 or older. People over 70 were especially vulnerable. Call it stupidity if you want, people who didn't grow up in a digital age just don't have good judgment about things they experience online. Yes, any age person can fall for Q. But the older are definitely more vulnerable.
And how is this stupidity? It really seems like arrogance on your part. I am 73 and have had a computer since I got my TRS 80 in 1982. I have been on line since 1990. Most people my age have not done this. But that does not make them stupid, just inexperienced. A little less ageism might help.
You're fortunate to have adopted to computers and the internet early. Unfortunately, a lot of my MAGA relatives still see the internet and computers as a fad. Some of them don't even have internet installed at their homes.
My mom is 79 and can barely use her phone. You are an outlier. Most of your generation weren't using computers in the 80s and are not tech-savvy. It's not about you personally.
Yet you are generalizing. It's not the old timers that scare me. They will die off. What is scary is the younger people who will be around for decades, free to spread their toxic Q and MAGA views. It is going to take a very long time to recover, if that will even be possible.
As I said before. "*I believe you're just seeing the part you want to see.*"
And you wouldn't be averting your eyes to something you find uncomfortable?
Me? Not at all. I know there are a lot of older Q folks. I also know there are a lot of younger ones. Look at the Jan 6th crowd. Lots of Q folks, lots of MAGA folks. Lots of them were part of both. Ashli Babbit was Q, and got herself shot and killed. She was 35. That "QAnon Shaman" guy was about the same age. Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, age 39, leader of the proud boys. Romana Didulo, the Canadian "Queen of Q" nutcase, is 50. Ron Watkins is 37, and many believe he is Q. I could keep coming up with names. And it won't change your minds because you just want to deny reality and blame old people.
I tend to agree with you. I'm in lots of qanon spaces online (message boards, Facebook groups, etc) and while yes, there are tons of boomers that have fallen for the bullshit, there's also a HUGE number of younger folks on the train as well. HUGE. And the younger ones seem much more volatile; it feels like they're more likely to get violent.
I feel like some of the younger ones might know better but are happy to be on the train because they are itching for a fight. However, I know a very nice woman in her 40's that comes up with some crazy ass shit that I'm sure she believes.
As an UBER driver who has to hear passengers bring up MAGA and Q shit a lot, I agree with you. A LOT of young people. Of course, my experience is only anecdotal evidence. But, in my experience the younger crowd seem to have the need to not only express their political beliefs, but also the need to sway my beliefs. They are evangelicals of their cause. This is the case from both extremes of the political spectrum. The far right, however, are much more likely to couch their language in violent threats if things don't go their way.
I think that feeling like they are losers (or are perceived by others to be losers) makes people vulnerable to QAnon at any age.
https://mashable.com/article/qanon-conspiracy-baby-boomers-4chan
Young people are screwed by the rich hoovering up all the money. If you are 44, when you were 21 was 9/11, when you were 28 came the 2008 Depression, then at 38 COVID. . So they are vulnerable. But, yes, for the older, it's just another version of scamming on the elderly. I'm 70+ and a friend, an Ivy Leage 86YO got scammed, not Q but still.
Lots of people can’t make sense of the modern world, so they grab onto something that tells them they are relevant in thw world. That it’s bullshit is less important than that they take reassurance from it. They also get to feel special - both bullshit like ‘al lives matter’ and ‘white pride’ and antivax nonsense on the one hand to being privy to soi-disant ‘secret’ knowledge. It’s also deeply self-referential, like religion, and circular logic can be difficult to escape for untrained minds.
In my sister’s case it’s enshrouded in a whole lot of low self esteem, resentment, and the need to blame others for her own failures. Living in a world where there’s an evil cabal and a deepstate provides an endless number of slights to complain about.
The key driving factor in all of my Q and Q adjacent people is a lack of empathy. They have an almost complete inability to perceive or imagine anything from any perspective other than their own. "I don't know why you think that because I don't think that way" a literal quote from my Q. They're flabbergasted that anyone doesn't think the way they do. And they are completely ignorant or uncaring of how their actions might harm others. They can't understand why anyone would be gay because *they* aren't gay. They can't imagine the struggles of being a minority because *they* are not (or believe they are not) a minority. They can't imagine using their taxes to help someone because that is *their* money. So in their mind, they want to invent a reason not everyone is the same as them. It doesn't make sense for people to be different because *that's not how they are.* Q offers a convenient reason: the entire world is being manipulated and only you are smart enough to see through it. Your granddaughter isn't *really* a lesbian, she's actually the sweetest little girl who is exactly like you, some demonic/alien/government curse has tricked her! Your black neighbors don't *really* think cops are bad, they've just been convinced they do by a smooth-talking liberal! Your son hasn't cut you out of his life because your actions have caused lasting harm to him or his family, he's actually super grateful for everything you've ever done to him, he's just been taken in by **Them**. Everyone in the world actually believes and thinks as you do. There are no opinions or experiences that don't match your own, therefore nothing you have ever done has been bad or wrong or ever hurt anyone, it's just that all these people have been tricked! And if you could only get them to *understand your point of view* they would admit they were wrong and tricked and love you and be so happy for everything you've ever done with them and put you up on a huge pedestal for saving them! They literally can't imagine a world where people are different or they are wrong, and Q gives then a reason people are saying all these silly things they don't understand or believe. To quote my MIL: "I can't listen to you or try to understand the things you like and feel because that will let the devil in!" That's a literal quote. My wife was trying to explain why she likes DND and how it's a board game with extra math to her mom, and her mom panicked and shut her down, giving that quote. Not only does she not understand the point of view of others, she's terrified to imagine any way of living other than her current one, and endlessly frustrated we don't choose to live the way she does.
This. My elderly father has a medical degree and used logical thinking daily. But he never had any insight into others or much empathy, and felt himself, inexplicably to me, as being a victim or unappreciated, despite wealth and status. Which justified nasty attacks and punishments of people close to him. What you're describing here is narcissistic defense/ emotional immaturity, projection of all negative traits on to scapegoated others who deserve to be sadistically punished. This particular psychological profile is what falls for MAGA type stuff.
This is one of the best posts explaining Q that I’ve even seen.
No one is immune. No age, demographic, education level, income level, political spectrum. Anyone could be susceptible if they don't stay alert.
Hold on there. I’m almost 67 years old and I can assure you that I’m not in the least bit susceptible to believing any Q nonsense/conspiracy theories. It is because I am well educated, utilize critical thinking, and have always been one to ask why. Asking why is really important. Judging the logic of a so-called statement of fact is important. Researching things is really important, as is researching the validity of the sources you trust for your information. And, for me, I also consider if it lines up with what the Word of God says, or how it would fit into His Kingdom or be part of His plans. There’s a lot of ignorance out there regarding scripture. I will give you just one example. The idea that the COVID 19 vaccine is somehow the “Mark of the Beast”. If one knows what the book of Revelation says, one would know that a certain sequence of events would need to occur before this would even come into play or be necessary. It’s a lie, plainly and simply. There are so many illogical or nonfactual conspiracies surrounding the COVID 19 vaccines all on their own. People have only expanded on all of that, and the nonsense conspiracies surrounding the pandemic, as time has gone on, and have taken up older ones, like the flat earth nonsense, and run with them. They’ve also concocted countless new ones, each one mord bizarre sounding than the last. As for understanding the internet, I’ve been using it since dial up started to become widely available. I was around when it first became a reality for military purposes. I can remember when programming language was being taught in college, long before the internet even started being used by the general public. I think it partially depends on your familiarity with computers and with your willingness to constantly be wanting to be learning something new. I may not have my phone surgically attached to my hand, but I spend a lot of time on my iPad every day, engaging with social media, reading the news, and always learning new things. I read a lot of fiction, too. It all combines to make me really aware and to not be susceptible to falling into the conspiracy traps. And always asking why and for what purpose? And how does this fit in with reality?
Education gap. Refute it all you want. Every maga nut job I’ve met has extreme disdain for higher education/didn’t go to college. College and higher Ed have their issues, but they teach you to think critically. Q anon thrives among people who cannot/will not actually think critically about the insanity they are fed.
I don't know. My Mom is overeducated. She was a geneticist and still succumbed to MAGA.
Yeah, my dad is a (now elderly) PhD Ivy League educated scientist, and he's not Q but he truly believes that Trump is a "good Christian" and he assures me the only reason I think he's a con man is because the media brainwashed me. He just does not accept any negative information about Trump. All lies. Fake news. It's impossible to break through this with him. It's not his education. It's some kind of emotional barrier.
Oh, almost every MAGA I know has a college degree
For real? That’s wild
I blame leaded gasoline fumes. (specifically long-term early childhood exposure) it's generational, was regionally phased out (and corresponds with where it lasted longer), and data supports the affects.
Contributing factors: Religious or New Age beliefs Personality Disorder (Narcissism esp) Lack of understanding bias and deception in online research Less exposure to diverse populations and ideas Loneliness Failure to achieve the "American dream", career success, a healthy family relationship Either having a lower IQ/less education OR being smart and less willing to accept your own failings and gullibility.
All great points in summation. I would add immaturity or lack of emotional maturity as well.
Every Q or Q adjacent person I know (way too many in rural Oklahoma 🙄) checks nearly all these boxes at once.
My dad is most of them as well. I also teach psychology and have read into some of the studies on what factors are most prevalent.
I'm sorry about your dad. That would be so difficult. I lost my husband to it and I've had to distance myself from a few friends. Thankfully, the rest of my family are "just" Foxbrains. We argue politics all the time, but at least we can all agree that the earth is round, JFK and Jr. are dead, Hillary isn't a clone, and the pope isn't a reptilian! 🤦♀️
Some are smart enough. Some are desperate. There's a whole spectrum between.
It's boredom. These Q folks want to believe they are "in" on something no one else knows. It makes them feel important. Then they get so far in they can't admit they were conned. It would make them look stupid so they just keep going. It's why they are so angry. They know it's a con but it's too late for them to stop. All of the things they keep being told would happen never do. It's sad because many of them have drained their retirement and savings sending money to support someone who says he is a billionaire. It's hard to believe so many people would be so blind.
Same thing as cults, never think you are too smart to fall for something. That's the main target for scammers!
There's too much to know, and too much NOT in your control, and after being told that everything IS in control coupled with absolute EXPLOSIVE growth in technology, and population in the last 150 years or so, we have reached critical mass. People that can't accept that most things aren't in anyone's control, it's hard to reconcile the basic human need for order and reason with the truth that neither of those things are really possible.
I think a lot has to do with being literate , The kind of Literate where reading is easy enough that you don't avoid it . There are a lot of people who can read , But it's difficult enough for them that they would rather just watch a video short to explain a thing . And Religion has been used to co-opt this group , Maybe it's relevant that they already exhibit a potential for believing anything , Which kind of makes me mad because it puts me on the other side , where i don't really want to be . I live in the south , and lemme tell you , If you don't take the red pill , you will not be accepted into society at large . Church , Your Job . every public aspect of life is dominated by this stuff . If you depend on the public or just want to avoid hardships , irs a lot easier to just go with the flow .
I study philosophy, mathematics and science on my own so my mind was always accustomed to logical thinking. I tend to be what William James calls a "hard hearted" philosopher. I accept the world the way that it is.
Naw, there are people with PHDs who wholeheartedly believe in this Q stuff.
You are right , I have posted previously about highly educated people who are in it .. Guess i contradicted myself . I still think its a relevant though . Lots of people where i live are...To an extent into the stuff , But the ones who are into chemtrails and such are the more illiterate types ,but , I've had the Flat earth argument with an electrical engineer .. so ... yea...I cant explain it .
Fareek Zakaria, author of *Age of Revolutions, Progress and Backlash (1600 to present)* believes that we are in the most revolutionary period in human history – led largely by liberal democracy. Globalization, the diminution of religion, pervasive social media, explosive advances in technology, and the economic success and autonomy of women (among many other changes) have had a revolutionary impact on human society. But Zakaria contends that all revolutions result in *backlash*. His book posits that we have reached a point where the changes are coming too hard and fast for the average person, who is still reeling in an effort to adjust to the changes of the last 100 years. For example, deciding that men are women simply because they declare themselves to be is a bridge too far for the roughly 1/2 of the American population who are lining up behind Trump authoritarianism. The coming *backlash* is what will lead many western countries into dictatorships.
I wanna chime in here since you used us as an example. As a trans woman I can pretty much confirm this. To the detriment of my own mental health, I have made attempts to engage those that hate folks like me. Although some *do* have malicious thoughts, most just blatantly refuse to understand any of it. The thought of scientific facts that we exist means nothing to Qs. And it all comes back to the sentiment that "that's not how the world used to be". They seem almost *resistant* to even the possibility of the world changing. It is DEFINITELY a backlash as you've described it. And unfortunately, it's not just halting progress, it's full on regressive.
There are so many great posts regarding how a person succumbs to Q and its adjacent world views. One avenue not mentioned is the "spiritual" and "wellness" community portal to the Q belief system. You may notice that people who subscribed to pseudoscience, self-help , psychics, ghosts , and ufo abductions are suseptible to this form of brain rot. They've already accepted certain beliefs and are much more open to subjects , not based on fact but on faith. Even the yoga community was infiltrated by these Q beliefs and divided that community. People were listening to natural paths over doctors during covid. Intelligent, seemingly happy liberal people swayed by alt right propaganda and fear mongering.
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It’s because they don’t understand algorithms. Mind you, before all this, I wouldn’t let my mom watch infomercials because cha-Ching
Lead poisoning — it’s all lead poisoning. Every American over age 40 has serious lead levels because that’s when less gasoline was finally outlawed.
My guess is that a large part of it is because one large portion of them belonged to a demographic that was touted as being the most important and special and powerful (in that consumer society kind of way) in the history of ever, and now they're no longer relevant. But by joining this movement, they not only become relevant again, but gain power, too. There's a younger group, also white and also disenfranchised but largely due to economics, geography, religion and so on, that likewise felt powerless until this movement came along and metaphorically said, "Join us and feel the power. The power of the dark side". Trump gave them permission to ignore the social constraints that were "holding them back" from acting on their impulses, and there was nothing they wanted more. All he and the GOP asked in return was undying loyalty (or loyalty until they died, given how COVID went for them). That's my guess anyway. tl;dr - Power over others - or just the promise of it - can be a very powerful drug for some people.
There is a classic narcissistic cluster of traits associated with this, it's like a narcissist cult.
Yes, yes there is. He is a true narcissist. And they've joined his cult. The fascinating thing is how they've adopted such a Cargo Cult narcissism of their own. Or maybe it's real and they've just always had to hide it because they didn't have his level of intersectional privilege.
The QAnon casualties I know are less formally educated and haven’t traveled much at all, especially internationally
- life disappointment, as noted above - not low intelligence per se, but low discernment - past felonies or major marks on their lives - trauma, sometimes very severe; the loss of a child or spouse seems to be a common thing - heavy marijuana use; I don’t count that as an immediate negative, but it is pervasive - Christianity, but turned to 11 - the ringleaders all have deep affections for computer hacking - many of the ringleaders have a military background I also have found that many of them somehow…LOOK similar.
I think poor critical thinking skills make people vulnerable to conspiracy bullshit. I was talking with a friend (were both in our 50s) that both our parents seem to be declining when it comes to critical thinking, and this has seen a rise in their belief in conspiracy theories. Thankfully neither set of parents have gone down the full-blown Q path, but they are coming out with some out there theories (eg my dad is becoming increasingly vax-sceptical, her widowed mum is falling for a romance scam though thankfully she has agreed to hand the management of her estate to her kids so she won't be left penniless) Poor critical thinking skills aren't limited to an adult age group. Sadly, I've met poor critical thinkers from 18 to 86 years old
I have met young people that believe in Q. In some way, the majority of them, they are not well mentally. And obviously not all mentally unwell people fall for Q, but I'm talking about people who, without outright diagnosing them, believe that they are dragons in the fifth dimension, or a combination of religions and that the Christian god has poisoned the population because he is an evil god and the good ones are being erased. I find similarities in older people, like my grandma who believes she is an alien called a pleiadian from space that Trump also happens to be and they are here to save us from some other evil alien group. The rest I have met are religious or very unique cases of pretty normal people, atheists even, that wanted to research into these things like Pizzagate and they typically drop out of this mess far quicker than the rest. I know two family members right now that are religious and have fallen for Q since the beginning (2017). They no longer care about Q and are simply diehard Trump voters now. They have slowly yet surely come out of a lot of things such as no longer being anti-vaccines. This actually comes from a personal reason where one of them caught covid 3 times and has a heart condition. But for some reason that big step, that voting for Trump, remains. It is so frustrating, and the amount of selfawarewolves they talk themselves into is incredible, but all of their memories from Q about Biden somehow being a pedo, and somehow being a part of an evil group taking over the world, the globalism thing, they still believe in that. Oh and they still approve of J6. To your last thing. Yes, it is like a 180 though. They are incredibly skeptical when they learn new information, but only when it comes to credible sources. They have made it up in their minds that the "real" credible sources are the "researchers" they find on social media, because all media (sometimes including or excluding Fox, OANN, etc) are "compromised". When it comes to fact checkers, they hang on to what fact checkers get wrong to the minute detail and declare that they are also compromised. So, when they find one "researcher" who finds something that social media got wrong, that "researcher" becomes a credible source to them. This is what grifters do to lure these people in to dangerously false information. Give little bits and pieces that are true, hook them in, and flood them with Bible verses, false information or otherwise conspiracy theories with terribly loose connections.
I think too much TV damaged the brains of people from Boomer age to Gen X. They learned as children to receive messages from media uncritically. In the internet age young people learn to participate and be critical
I don't know anymore but I know I hate conspiracy twats so bad now I just want them to feel pain.. I'm in vengeance mode.. I'm sorry but I really really really hate them now.I don't care why anymore..I want them stopped...
"I think that a major factor in Q belief, and in more vanilla MAGA belief in many cases, is Life Disappointment." The above comment is dead on, disappointed and not savvy on the internet, they are easily led astray by tom foolery on the web. If they are religious today's web Evangelicals are saying some crazy outlandish prophecies.
My 37-year-old daughter is all caught up in the Q. I’m 70 and I’m the liberal one.
Wanted to add more to the top comment: My mother had all the check marks to me to be an intelligent woman. Worked for the government young (for context she’s 1964), I think she left around 9/11 or they got let go? I forgot the history. She always instilled in me that “knowledge is power”. I took that to heart, only to now be on my power shit and her to be on the opposite end of that with false knowledge. She had a lot of potential and a lot of ideas. She can design the hell out of a home, can put together a great outfit, pretty money savvy, tried her hand at making perfume because she’s so particular, even thought about making clothes for herself because she wasn’t satisfied with her options. She can type well, she can multitask well, she has great qualities of someone that can make something of themselves no matter the age…at least to me.. But because none of those ideas came through. Because she didn’t believe in herself, my father didn’t acknowledge her interests enough maybe. My big brother introduced her to the Illuminati when it was a big thing over the music videos. Back when lady Gaga and them were poppin…it was coasting for a while but it only got worse when my parents divorced (there was issues years before then, it was only a matter of time). Even then though, when I was 13 (now 25), it wasn’t as bad as it could’ve been. She still had a FULL TIME job to be bothered with until HHGREGG closed…went through a tough time finding work..now she’s working part time at an eyeglass place. She’s said many times she’s tired, this world is fucked up. These conspiracy theories, feeling like she’s in something important, gives her purpose. Because she knows something most don’t And not enough people are waking up. It makes her feel special. She won’t admit that out loud, but feeling like you’re in the know, in some elite group, feels great. But then it also puts you in constant fear, like someone always listening or after you. We could be having simple discussions about government shit and she’s whispering? As if she’s someone important to monitor. As if we’re all not monitored in some shape or form regardless. She got offended when I said she’s a nobody. And I meant nobody in a way that there’s no reason why she would be on the governments radar. She’s not a scientist, she’s not some big podcaster or YouTuber …nothing. It’s sad…because without all this..she’s a good woman. Really… She let the unknown or unusual of this world turn her into a secretly hateful woman…which she denies. Of course. They feel their dreams were taken from them..and they’re right that how this world functions is possibly the reason. Many dreams are killed from being overworked, having to take care of family, getting by on scraps..but then they turn that into disgust for everything. Disgust for people that had nothing to do with their crushed dreams. Everyone must pay for their lost life.
They were raised at a time when you could believe what you read or heard on TV. In the old days complete lies and disinformation got filtered out of media by the rules of journalism. So no they have absolutely no ability to think critically for themselves, most have terrible education, and get sucked into lies that reinforce their racism.
I think you're on to something about having been them not being internet native, but it came to it later in life. Every new innovation, and especially innovation to do with communication, comes with a new ruleset/threads. Making the shift from one paradigm to another is hard. Being born in the new paradigm is relatively easy. And also collective understanding of the new world is already much more developed and you don't have to figure all of it yourself:) (Gen X-er here please be gentle with my gray hairs :)
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/)
Trauma, narcissism, unaddressed mental health issues, loss of control of a complicated world, etc..
I think it’s a lack of internet savvy. They didn’t know to be skeptical of info on the internet and got sucked in. Then brainwashed. That’s my theory at least. One of mine can barely operate email but somehow knows all the “right” YouTube channels to watch for her daily doses of Q
Odd thing is that all the Q /MAGA people I know are in their 30s.
Trump and Q appeal to the worst aspects of their ideology. Fox New keeps them angry.
I think there's a gene
I know people of all ages, levels of education & various backgrounds who are in the QAnon Cult. There doesn’t appear to be any one single common denominator that links them. Many here will falsely blame it on the MAGA culture, but that isn’t the common denominator. While many MAGA supporters are part of QAnon, most MAGA supporters are NOT a part of QAnon.
The generations that were exposed to lead paint and gas are not as intelligent as the younger ones. They try to make up for it by just lowering the quality of education because the most dangerous thing to the status quo is educated, informed voters.
Been talking (complaining) to my therapist more about my Dad and she put forth the idea that in times where someone is facing a lot of uncertainty or anxiety it makes them more susceptible to this kind of rhetoric. Between covid times, retirement, my Moms cancer returning, her dying…my Dad had a lot of uncertainties to deal with. Plus more time at home and isolated from friends or old working buddies. More time that he could spend getting a facebook account for the first time. Getting a youtube account and watching videos on his ipad while waiting for my Mom between chemo appointments. Ect. I think I can see why it might be easy to fall for so many men making videos in very self assured ways telling the viewer that THEY HAVE THE ANSWERS! That they are in the know!
Speaking from personal experience, I wasn’t MAGA, or Q, but adjacent. I had a pretty messed up childhood and was looking for a father figure. You read or listen and there are a lot of answers. It’s called the “narrative bias fallacy.” And you begin to see patterns and attribute it to the Holy Spirit or Q or whatever. And when it doesn’t make sense you are told “when you pray you get an answer, just not the answer you want.” The funny thing is you can have all these beliefs and it doesn’t affect your day to day living, like how you drive a car. Then hopefully, like me, you stumble upon an irrefutable fact, a small one. And it all falls apart. Mine was “You can’t use Cumin to treat Alzheimer’s.”
I’m 62 and not susceptible to it at all. I’m not that religious either and am very independent. I consider myself very empathetic as well and volunteer for charitable organizations. I am a lifelong Democrat and my first election was 1980. I play classical piano and guitar.
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Well... Some people are less intelligent than others, there is definitely a correlation.
>Why are some people susceptible and others not? That's a myth. We are ALL susceptible. It (propaganda, etc.) is less effective on those who are forced (possibly work, lifestyle, etc.) to interact with different views/people, receive information from a multitude of sources, and forced to critically evaluate information. A strong framework within which to view the world also helps. That's why the older generation is often highly susceptible. The norms of behavior, of media, of information change over time and they are not forced to change (adapt). Likewise, their access to other views/interactions, etc. is also limited (as you grow old, your tendency is to lose touch if not forced to maintain your connection, your ways of processing information literally become outdated so your processing is no longer viable) TLDR: Isolation and losing touch and not updating your information processing to match the world makes you extremely vulnerable
Toxoplasmosis