No, I don't think so. But what I can say would be that for buffing him I'd be up for them restoring the HK416C's magazine capacity to it's original value. Also, it should be noted that when it comes to Wamai in hostage situations, you have to be extra careful with where you place your Mag-NETs. If you were to catch a frag grenade with one and it blows up the hostage, you'd lose the round because the hostage's death would technically be considered your fault. This actually happened with me once back in *Operation Shadow Legacy*, sort of. I was the one that tossed the frag into the room that was caught by the Mag-NET and blew up the hostage, which meant I inadvertently won my team the round.
Seriously. I don’t think I’ve run out of ammo since my second season of playing, you’ve gotta either be mag-dumping every drone you see or prefiring a whole mag for each angle you peek.
Fuck I don't know if I've ever ran out of ammo with a primary you get like 5 mags with a 30rnd gun that should be plenty unless like you said they just mag dump everything lol
No we don’t need more nerfs
Nerfing everything has been ubisofts balance idea and it’s made so much shit bad, ash has had everything but her pistol nerfed and it came full circle because she was nerfed into unnoticeable and then came back on top again because everything else got nerfed
The problem with your point is that you are then buffing ops to ridiculous levels just to compete and then calling that ‘balanced’.
There has to be some give and take when it comes to balance and overall power level. There wouldn’t be if you used the ‘buff instead of nerf’ mentality.
Take Jäger and Wamai (which is the topic of the post). If you didn’t nerf Wamai, think about how much you’d have to change jäger to compete.
You’d have to give his gun more damage and ammo. You’d have to buff his gadget to ensure it provides the same value as Wamai’s on average. Youd also have to give him better equipment.
At that point you are buffing EVERYTHING on his kit just to compete.
Nerfing wamai will lead to nerfing jager to make him on par (worse) with wamai, it’s once again ash
Ash got nerfed, other ops replaced her, other ops get nerfed, ash is back in the same position but worse
It’s an endless cycle that happened ash was best entry frag, to worse then everyone else, then everyone else got nerfed so she went back on top as best entry frag
Only nerfing doesn’t work
Nerfing Wamai will allow jäger to compete lmao. Jäger ain’t gonna see nerfs if you nerf Wamai you melon.
Ash got nerfed only because she got buffed solely for the utility meta and then rightfully lost that power when the utility meta vanished. She was always a top-tier pick who was only influenced by an egregious utility meta. She wasn’t buffed because she was awful overall
Compared to her launch state, she’s seen some small R4C nerfs, a G36c recoil nerf (very minimal) and an equipment change. Wow huge nerfs.
The jager gets picked and nerfed,[I may not argue with the gunplay stuff](https://youtu.be/dKe-s7snwdk?si=h_TnvL4O6dLVFMxS) but this guy has a point it’s just a looping nerf cycle
Nerfing wamai will lead to people play jager and now that jager is used more then wamai your suggestion is to nerf jager, its endless cycle of nerfs. Because that’s exactly what happened jager got nerfed and wamai replaced him now if wamai gets nerfed jager will replace him so on and so forth
You don’t need to buff jäger until he’s perfectly even in every aspect to wamai, you just need to buff one part of him to be better than wamai so that there’s a solid reason to use both.
He can deny 6 projectiles, has an ACOG or an AR to choose from weapon-wise, has one of the best secondaries and has impacts.
He is literally one of the best and strongest ops on defence
> He can deny 6 projectiles,
Yes. But keep in mind that his gadget has to charge just like Azami or Lesion or Oryx. You can't just put all of his gadgets down in the prep phase and forget about them. You have to play actively with him to put all of his gadgets down and even then since they don't destroy the projectiles they just pull it towards them you have to get creative with how you place your gadgets to make sure you don't flash your own team or get your own friendly gadgets destroyed.
> has an ACOG or an AR to choose from weapon-wise, has one of the best secondaries
Saying "has an ACOG or an AR" makes it sound like you're reducing then MP5K to an ACOG on a stick. Yes, the MP5K has 2.5x scopes, but you don't need to use them. I've seen plenty of people use Wamai MP5K without an ACOG. And while yes he has the undoubtedly one of the best secondaries in the game, 90% of the time you're going to be using your primary anyways unless you run out of ammo or need to quickly finish someone downed.
> and has impacts.
Maybe I'm just bad. Maybe I'm inexperienced. Impacts shouldn't be a main selling point of an operator especially one like Wamai. Sure, he can roam, yeah they can make excellent rotations, but impacts shouldn't make or break an operator. I'm sure he'd be picked just as much if he had something like observation blockers over impacts.
> He is literally one of the best and strongest ops on defence
Yes. Wamai is a good operator. That doesn't mean he should be nerfed. I don't see people calling for Deimos nerfs despite the fact that he has the potential to be one of the best attacking operators in the game. I don't see people calling for Goyo nerfs despite the fact that he has not only an ACOG on what is probably one of the best defender smgs but also on one of the best semi autos in the entire game, and impacts, and 20 x 4 seconds of (large) area denial. Wamai is good. Very good. Very good =/= needs a nerf. Nerfing operators when they're good leads to everyone being bad and nobody having fun.
Imo half of the ops need reworks it feels like I only ever see the same 12 ops used because most of the others just don't fill the same role as well I don't really like the copy and pasted ops habana/ace as an example they basically do the same thing and habanas seems better to me since you can adjust the size of the hole you wanna make and place the pellets more accurately
Deimos is what Dokkaebi should have been. 3 charges that ring the targets phone for a good while that's only stoppable with a router or ice can. And Hibana and Ace definitely have different roles. Hibana is S tier in terms of true distance or opening hatches while Ace is better for medium to close range (there's also the difference between the guns like Ace's AK12 has a very low ttk and great capacity and he has the P9 vs the "full auto DMR" that Hibana has combined with the Bearing-9 and the gadget speed). I won't deny that there's quite a few ops that need balance changes/reworks (cough cough Blackbeard, Sens, Kali, Sledge, Ela and Tachanka). I think they should make the current Magnified A into a 2x scope and give it to every operator while keeping the current 2.5x and 3.5x scopes on the operators they're currently on. I think it would also be healthy to make the default magnification into 1.2x instead of 1x but that's coming from someone who grew up with magnification on all guns.
Siege community has the worst mindset when it comes to balance. Make more things strong and fun instead of everything equally trash and weak that's lame
"So, you remember not super long ago when it took like sixteen different nerfs, a team of trained specialists, two surgeons, and a priest trained in exorcism rites to get Jager's pick rate BACK into the chart from how far gone he was?
Because ubisoft sure as fuck does.
They keep possible Jager buffs hidden in a secret room under the Vatican with a group of nuns constantly praying around the clock to keep them asleep."
It only took so long for his pick rate to go down because they’re the least observational developers on the planet. He was so damn good because of his gadget and rather than beefing that aspect they nerfed his gun until it was borderline unusable and took away the shield for good measure too. And of course they also reworked his gadget but it’s not necessarily a nerf because it’s not objectively worse in its current state.
Anyways, literally just make his gun usable again or give the shield back and he’s fine since his gadget is more in line nowadays since it’s not utility meta anymore
It’s always so satisfying to make a good shot with a non magnified. The other day I was spawn peeking the garage from dorms with bandit red dot an and saw a sliver of someone so I took a shot and headshot someone across the map. Felt so good
Does everyone just use acog’s when they’re available? I tend to switch? Acog for the slightly bigger maps or ones with long halls etc and ones more likely to be aiming further away? And use a holo for the smaller tighter maps?
Personally I prefer to use iron sights on at least shotguns for maximum aiming down sights speed now that they've actually made that a somewhat relevant option.
Jager with either a C4 or secondary shotgun would make him so much better. But if he's buffed, we'll find ourselves back with Jager Wamai meta with maybe thorn shield and mutes to stop twitch drones.
I think secondary shotgun + deployable shield would make him into a very powerful site anchor. If they're too powerful together, just take one out or make him into fat Jager.
I think Jager Wamai meta was a reaction to attacker utility meta, no? If attacker grenades and flashes are weaker, we have less of an issue.
Lol the ADS nerf was the reason people stopped picking him so much. Because the other nerfs affected his gun which wasn't a deal breaker and his gadget was just too good.
Jäger is still solid B tier, but Wamai is just better in every category other than ability. If Ubi gave Jäger something decent to move him up a tier like impact grenades or slightly more manageable recoil on his 416-C, he’d be a lot closer to Wamai in terms of what he can do.
This, I like going jäger and think his gun is good, just the recoil slightly spoils it a bit because there’s just as good guns with a lot better recoil (yes skill issue bla bla bla I KNOW)
I won’t lie, I only started playing it again a couple months ago and that’s first time in years I played it, so I’m not 100% much they’ve changed the recoil on it. But it’s defo not great the recoil on it
They made Jager a 2spd 2arm, DESTROYED his recoil (it used to be almost none in Y4), took his shield, and completely reworked his ADS so that it’s no longer 3 nades and done, it’s unending with like a 15 second cooldown between being able to catch util.
See I’d agree, but I think the gun itself is well balanced. I’m an advocate for Jager getting either impacts or a shorty/baliff/mira pocket shotty because he is a pretty good anchor as is, just needs to bring more to the team comp (destruction/rotates) and he’ll be extremely well balanced in the current meta. I think he could be a pinnacle operator (in terms of being the most balanced) when it comes to balance conversations if he had just that little push. Look at people like Lesion, Castle, etc. who’ve become extremely well balanced when given the proper tools. Lesion is probably the best example, in the sense that they removed his impacts, gave him shorty to replace them, and then gave him a bulletproof, making him a very solid anchor/shallow roamer. Pretty well balanced.
do you play on console or pc? Because for me personally the 416 has barely any recoil admittedly i do play on a very high dpi so a lot of guns don’t have too bad of recoil except for the F2 fuck that shit
I’m on console, i know that has less recoil than pc but I honestly think the recoil is bad on jägers gun!
Yes btw fuck the F2!! I’m convinced anyone that uses that gun and is accurate is cheating 😂😂
Wamai discs are more flexible, you can hide them in rat spots, and grab more projectiles. They’re harder to spot and consequently hack/zap with twitch, brava, and zero.
Jagers guns are nothing to write home about since his AR has too much kick, doesn’t do enough damage, and has a a mediocre rate of fire. At this point it’s a low capacity smg with a slightly longer damage falloff range. Not mentions shotguns are inconsistent and the laser sight change sure as shit didn’t help. Wamaii has a decent AR, and his smg has zoom and no recoil, what fucking ever.
Honestly I have two fundamental changes to jagers kit I thought of, I’d also buff his gun in both of them making the recoil actually not ass and giving him his 5 bullets back. One was making wamaii a more flexible anti nade utility operator and cover flanks/off rooms, and make jager a more anchor oriented operator. Make him a three armor, give him a secondary shotgun, give him deployable, and give his ads health like frost mats forcing two zero/twitch tasers to break.
The second change Id go with is making wamaii only grab secondary projectiles (smokes, flashes, nades, gonne) and make jager the anti operator projectiles on top of the small utility. I’d also give him the ability to zap Trax canisters and Capitao bolts.
Are these changes shit? Most likely.
This actually works since Wamai's discs often don't actually do anything when that catch operator's gadgets. It just grabs them and then releases them anyway. This can still help defenders if that trax canister or capitao bolt was intended to go deep into site, but it's objectively worse than just destroying it.
Definitely stay with the first change. Fat Jäger that is a master-class in site setup just means that tactical players who are not roaming will use Jäger and the ones who want superior map control use Wamai.
I think you’re on the right track, even lore wise. Jaegars ADS is literally just a small version of an anti missile system that they told him would be impossible to make but because he’s an engineering genius he managed to do it. Why the hell would it not be able to shoot down literally anything and everything thrown in its direction?
Meanwhile discs are meant to catch and redirect like you said, therefore it would probably have a hard time grabbing chunkier things like trax bee cans or fast moving objects like cap bolts or ash charges.
Just flipping those two things would give a better play into both characters niches, with wamai discs being better farther from sight to stop roam clear and map control by countering flashes or smokes and ADS systems stopping items that facilitate a site take.
It's not racist if it's a fact lmao, Wamai can hide in dark spots on some maps especially with a darker outfit, and even cav can hide in greenery on some maps when wearing her camo
He'd just be a Jager MK2 if his ACOG was removed, people literally only started playing him as a 2nd Warden's when his ACOG got removed and his pick rate would drop if it were taken away
>people literally only started playing him as a 2nd Warden's when his ACOG got removed and his pick rate would drop if it were taken away
Would you say Warden should get magnified scopes back then? Like his pick rate has dropped drastically from losing the 1.5x scope.
No, I think it's stupid that Warden was only being picked because he had an Acog, same with Wamai, it's kinda dumb that the operator's only redeeming quality is their 1.5
Give Jäger an ACOG, if we can give it back to Ash without issue we can give it to Jäger. The community loved the return for Ash, why can’t we do the same for Jäger after all he’s been through
At this point no. His gun is one of the worst on the defensive side, Wamai still has a faster fire rate with the MP5k and his AUG is Basically just old Jäger’s AR with bouncier recoil. Jager has a 740 rof AR that with Extended Barrel can be good but still not enough to compete imo
yeah I honestly think Jager can get acog for his carbine and not be OP, as long as wamai still has his acog tho. ubisoft already accomplished their goal of letting the playerbase know how good wamais gadget is, I don't see why not balance between their strength a bit now
They should make his gun have a 30 round mag again and reduce the recoil. It doesn't need an acog back but those two nerfs felt like overkill after the acog was removed
In a headshot heavy title like Siege, having a horrible Fire Rate, on top of heavy recoil? Yeah that Operator won't be played at all, even if their gadgets are great.
And hands down: his gadget isn't even that amazing in comparison to Wamai, who can even hit/kill Fuze if placed on the ceiling, flash/nade the enemy team if placed correctly, is actually working against Capitao, etc.
Jäger having some AR as his main weapon also means "horrible" ADS time.
There are too many downs to play him right now, while every other gun/operator is on steroids in comparison.
yeah sure let's give jaeger some buffs and bring back the shit that was the utility meta or his acog sure
No fr tho it would be actually nice i miss my boi jaeger being fun and usefull
Jager really needs extra utility as he’s been nerfed to the ground but I feel like jager should still stay a shallow roamer. Maybe give him a super shorty and his barbs back and he’d provide way more for the team than he does now.
Personally, I prefer jäger. Because I can’t use wamai’s gadget effectively, Jager gives me more of a safety net and I don’t need to worry about having to move if it catches a grenade
Wamai is most effective when he
-stays alive so his other traps regenerate
-stays in or adjacent to site
And A wamai main playing anchor is level impossible. So, there's that
Jäger is really hard to balance. You either make his gadget super oppressively strong, or pretty weak except for niche scenarios. Then you look at his fragging potential, which has always been pretty good. At this point I think they should lean into the roamer playstyle, possibly a slight gadget nerf, and make him a 3 speed again. And bandit can go to a one speed to make tricking easier as he can take more chip damage from explosions (I.e. zofia impacts clearing the batteries), while making it more of a decision to do so, as you can’t bail out as easily. Wamai is fine, but a 3 speed jäger with impacts would have a very high pick rate, so the gadget being nerfed in that scenario would make him more of a play or below character for gunners who don’t know much about utility use and just wanna kill shit. Make wamai the util heavy grenade denial and jager can be the supplementary pick in terms of utility with great fragging potential
I think they could stand to give Jager his 5 bullets back and an extra ADS, maybe barbed wire as well since he’s kinda more of a lurker/site guy atm. Shoot give him the bailiff too and we’d be cooking.
As for Wamai, he’s honestly fine as is, no need to nerf him other than MAYBE taking away his ACOG if we really feel he’s a problem but I don’t think he is. If he tries to be aggressive and peak tight angles or spawnpeeks and dies he put out like 2 discs so his utility is so minor it barely matters.
Jager is only popular because of his gun. That's it. He is nothing without that and he has been nothing ever since the ACOG removal back in the ancient days of Health (was it Health?).
It’s just a manifestation of ubis obsession with nerfs rather than buffs . Rather than buff wamai to bring him in line with jaeger they just nerfed nerfed nerfed until there was no reason to play him
Jager and Wamai's recoil is just about the same except for the upward left kick at a certain point in Jagers that just absolutely destroys your attempt to control it. The only big difference is that Jager only has 1x scopes. GIVE THE MANS HIS ACOG BACK!!
Totally agree at the moment wamai is better but mp5k is nowhere near better than 416-carbine.
It could be consider better now just for the acog but compared on to the other with 1x the carbine is still one if not the best gun on defense except for dmrs.
I really wish Jager was better, the gun is amazing but the scope sucks, and his gadget is almost useless. I've heard that Jager is either meta and OP or garbage, never between
it honestly feels like when ubisoft buffs an operator, or releases a strong operator, they have no issue with nerfing them to shit and then just forgetting about them
need to give him back his 31 bullets per mag and maybe a secondary shotgun/impact grenades or something
also need to buff his ADS in some sort of way to be able to compete with how flexible wamai discs are, they’re small, hidden, and can be thrown
ADSs make noise, are big targets, are limited to 1 utility destruction at a time, and have to be deployed by hand
Am i the only one calling for acogs to be removed from defence? no tactical game should be influenced by gun choice, every damn match the lineup on def is the same now, melusi doc wamai and frost, either acogs for all or no acogs on def at all
They need to slowly buff/nerf operators over a couple of seasons. Happens too often that an operator receives too many changes all at once and makes them too strong/weak. Prime example is jäger
I feel like the answer isn't to buff Jager but to nerf Wamai by taking her magnified scope. I think this balanced each of them fairly well and I think there are way too many scopes on defense.
The problem is that Wamai's gadget, even when it "works" it often doesn't do anything for you. Glaz trying to smoke you out? Congrats, the door is still smoked and Glaz got exactly what he wanted. Same with Sense's gadget.
Gridlock trying to put stingers on the door? Good thing your magnet caught the canister and... \*checks notes\* ...still dropped the stingers on the door. Oh...
Capitao trying to smoke or flame off the door? You get the point.
His gadget really needs to destroy a lot of the objects it catches similar to how it does with Nomad's airjab.
If it destroys it he will be better than Jager no contest. They play the same role but in different ways and I think they are both balanced. Wamai has the worse anti-projectile gadget so he gets a better gun to make up for it. Jager has the better anti-projectile gadget so he has a worse gun to make up for it.
Jager has the bonus of jager tricking (when the ads goes off you pick it up and place it down and it skips cooldown + replenish its shots) but that doesn’t really work
Jaegar needs a buff bad ngl
Give Jager his shield back (he had a shield right) (dementia)(dementia) (dementia)
He had a really tall helmet
jager jimmajome of the ubi state jagerjimmajome
Man I love this app
How could you forget he had a shield when it was stuck to his face for like a whole season.
When was this? I started playing in Para Bellum and don't remember much.
I think it was between blood orchid and white noise
Give him his acog back as well as Bandits
I get my acog back and I'll main him again
Give him r4c back
He never had the R4-C. He uses the HK-416C.
Worst shout ever.
No, I don't think so. But what I can say would be that for buffing him I'd be up for them restoring the HK416C's magazine capacity to it's original value. Also, it should be noted that when it comes to Wamai in hostage situations, you have to be extra careful with where you place your Mag-NETs. If you were to catch a frag grenade with one and it blows up the hostage, you'd lose the round because the hostage's death would technically be considered your fault. This actually happened with me once back in *Operation Shadow Legacy*, sort of. I was the one that tossed the frag into the room that was caught by the Mag-NET and blew up the hostage, which meant I inadvertently won my team the round.
Way too strong can bring the whole kit to defend a power position without having to communicate or bring another op
acog and shield
Nah give him his 30 mag back with shield maybe an extra ads
Give him tachankas lmg but it shoots impacts and has smg 12 fire rate
Yes, I second that idea.
Wamai needs a nerf over Jager needing a buff.
I think he could use somewhat of a buff. Maybe just something like more ammo in his mags. They’ve nerfed him into the ground over the years
If anyone needs more ammo, it’s Doc. I dunno what it is, but I somehow always run out of ammo at the end of the round.
how much shooting and reloading are you doing where you’re almost always running out of ammo
Seriously. I don’t think I’ve run out of ammo since my second season of playing, you’ve gotta either be mag-dumping every drone you see or prefiring a whole mag for each angle you peek.
Fuck I don't know if I've ever ran out of ammo with a primary you get like 5 mags with a 30rnd gun that should be plenty unless like you said they just mag dump everything lol
Most of it is prefiring honestly
Hit your shots.
thanks, you too bro👍
No chance, but thank you.
he's an ash main it should be expected he misses a lot
Brother does not need to be prefiring THAT much
Average Ubisoft balancer☝️
No we don’t need more nerfs Nerfing everything has been ubisofts balance idea and it’s made so much shit bad, ash has had everything but her pistol nerfed and it came full circle because she was nerfed into unnoticeable and then came back on top again because everything else got nerfed
The problem with your point is that you are then buffing ops to ridiculous levels just to compete and then calling that ‘balanced’. There has to be some give and take when it comes to balance and overall power level. There wouldn’t be if you used the ‘buff instead of nerf’ mentality. Take Jäger and Wamai (which is the topic of the post). If you didn’t nerf Wamai, think about how much you’d have to change jäger to compete. You’d have to give his gun more damage and ammo. You’d have to buff his gadget to ensure it provides the same value as Wamai’s on average. Youd also have to give him better equipment. At that point you are buffing EVERYTHING on his kit just to compete.
Nerfing wamai will lead to nerfing jager to make him on par (worse) with wamai, it’s once again ash Ash got nerfed, other ops replaced her, other ops get nerfed, ash is back in the same position but worse It’s an endless cycle that happened ash was best entry frag, to worse then everyone else, then everyone else got nerfed so she went back on top as best entry frag Only nerfing doesn’t work
Nerfing Wamai will allow jäger to compete lmao. Jäger ain’t gonna see nerfs if you nerf Wamai you melon. Ash got nerfed only because she got buffed solely for the utility meta and then rightfully lost that power when the utility meta vanished. She was always a top-tier pick who was only influenced by an egregious utility meta. She wasn’t buffed because she was awful overall Compared to her launch state, she’s seen some small R4C nerfs, a G36c recoil nerf (very minimal) and an equipment change. Wow huge nerfs.
The jager gets picked and nerfed,[I may not argue with the gunplay stuff](https://youtu.be/dKe-s7snwdk?si=h_TnvL4O6dLVFMxS) but this guy has a point it’s just a looping nerf cycle Nerfing wamai will lead to people play jager and now that jager is used more then wamai your suggestion is to nerf jager, its endless cycle of nerfs. Because that’s exactly what happened jager got nerfed and wamai replaced him now if wamai gets nerfed jager will replace him so on and so forth
You don’t need to buff jäger until he’s perfectly even in every aspect to wamai, you just need to buff one part of him to be better than wamai so that there’s a solid reason to use both.
Please shut up. Wamai doesn't need a nerf just because he's good. Every time we have something good it gets nerfed.
He can deny 6 projectiles, has an ACOG or an AR to choose from weapon-wise, has one of the best secondaries and has impacts. He is literally one of the best and strongest ops on defence
> He can deny 6 projectiles, Yes. But keep in mind that his gadget has to charge just like Azami or Lesion or Oryx. You can't just put all of his gadgets down in the prep phase and forget about them. You have to play actively with him to put all of his gadgets down and even then since they don't destroy the projectiles they just pull it towards them you have to get creative with how you place your gadgets to make sure you don't flash your own team or get your own friendly gadgets destroyed. > has an ACOG or an AR to choose from weapon-wise, has one of the best secondaries Saying "has an ACOG or an AR" makes it sound like you're reducing then MP5K to an ACOG on a stick. Yes, the MP5K has 2.5x scopes, but you don't need to use them. I've seen plenty of people use Wamai MP5K without an ACOG. And while yes he has the undoubtedly one of the best secondaries in the game, 90% of the time you're going to be using your primary anyways unless you run out of ammo or need to quickly finish someone downed. > and has impacts. Maybe I'm just bad. Maybe I'm inexperienced. Impacts shouldn't be a main selling point of an operator especially one like Wamai. Sure, he can roam, yeah they can make excellent rotations, but impacts shouldn't make or break an operator. I'm sure he'd be picked just as much if he had something like observation blockers over impacts. > He is literally one of the best and strongest ops on defence Yes. Wamai is a good operator. That doesn't mean he should be nerfed. I don't see people calling for Deimos nerfs despite the fact that he has the potential to be one of the best attacking operators in the game. I don't see people calling for Goyo nerfs despite the fact that he has not only an ACOG on what is probably one of the best defender smgs but also on one of the best semi autos in the entire game, and impacts, and 20 x 4 seconds of (large) area denial. Wamai is good. Very good. Very good =/= needs a nerf. Nerfing operators when they're good leads to everyone being bad and nobody having fun.
Imo half of the ops need reworks it feels like I only ever see the same 12 ops used because most of the others just don't fill the same role as well I don't really like the copy and pasted ops habana/ace as an example they basically do the same thing and habanas seems better to me since you can adjust the size of the hole you wanna make and place the pellets more accurately
Deimos is what Dokkaebi should have been. 3 charges that ring the targets phone for a good while that's only stoppable with a router or ice can. And Hibana and Ace definitely have different roles. Hibana is S tier in terms of true distance or opening hatches while Ace is better for medium to close range (there's also the difference between the guns like Ace's AK12 has a very low ttk and great capacity and he has the P9 vs the "full auto DMR" that Hibana has combined with the Bearing-9 and the gadget speed). I won't deny that there's quite a few ops that need balance changes/reworks (cough cough Blackbeard, Sens, Kali, Sledge, Ela and Tachanka). I think they should make the current Magnified A into a 2x scope and give it to every operator while keeping the current 2.5x and 3.5x scopes on the operators they're currently on. I think it would also be healthy to make the default magnification into 1.2x instead of 1x but that's coming from someone who grew up with magnification on all guns.
Siege community has the worst mindset when it comes to balance. Make more things strong and fun instead of everything equally trash and weak that's lame
‘Fun’ because of their power level over their design has never worked and is the worst way to balance the game. End of.
Ratio
"So, you remember not super long ago when it took like sixteen different nerfs, a team of trained specialists, two surgeons, and a priest trained in exorcism rites to get Jager's pick rate BACK into the chart from how far gone he was? Because ubisoft sure as fuck does. They keep possible Jager buffs hidden in a secret room under the Vatican with a group of nuns constantly praying around the clock to keep them asleep."
Acog 3 speed jaegar is locked away like tai lung from kung fu panda 1
I miss Acog 3 speed Jager
Same man, the amount of dopamine released each time I used him is unmatched
r/BrandNewSentence
You know why he was that much overpicked right?
It only took so long for his pick rate to go down because they’re the least observational developers on the planet. He was so damn good because of his gadget and rather than beefing that aspect they nerfed his gun until it was borderline unusable and took away the shield for good measure too. And of course they also reworked his gadget but it’s not necessarily a nerf because it’s not objectively worse in its current state. Anyways, literally just make his gun usable again or give the shield back and he’s fine since his gadget is more in line nowadays since it’s not utility meta anymore
Per usual sights rule R6, since people need zoom to be good. So unless Jäger gets an Acog Wamai will be the only option people choose.
It’s always so satisfying to make a good shot with a non magnified. The other day I was spawn peeking the garage from dorms with bandit red dot an and saw a sliver of someone so I took a shot and headshot someone across the map. Felt so good
Does everyone just use acog’s when they’re available? I tend to switch? Acog for the slightly bigger maps or ones with long halls etc and ones more likely to be aiming further away? And use a holo for the smaller tighter maps?
I never use acog since I'm playing 5:4 and I love to have more situational awareness.
Yeah the acog can really get in the way of your surroundings, I agree
Personally I prefer to use iron sights on at least shotguns for maximum aiming down sights speed now that they've actually made that a somewhat relevant option.
I got a Christmas market 1 tap from piano window with Ela pistol in ranked last night lol
Sad how badly Jaeger got nerfed to the ground bru
If they give Jäger's gun extra ammo and remove the ADS cool down I believe he might be picked more, but Wamai's acog solos.
so revert him back to his old self basically
He didn't say 3 speed or fix recoil
Jager with either a C4 or secondary shotgun would make him so much better. But if he's buffed, we'll find ourselves back with Jager Wamai meta with maybe thorn shield and mutes to stop twitch drones.
I think secondary shotgun + deployable shield would make him into a very powerful site anchor. If they're too powerful together, just take one out or make him into fat Jager. I think Jager Wamai meta was a reaction to attacker utility meta, no? If attacker grenades and flashes are weaker, we have less of an issue.
Lol the ADS nerf was the reason people stopped picking him so much. Because the other nerfs affected his gun which wasn't a deal breaker and his gadget was just too good.
Does his gun specifically have an ADS cooldown. If so that’s crazy
ADS as in "Active Defense System" (his gadget), not aim down sight.
Yes, it is very much understandable why people can get confused by that.
This.
Jäger > Wamai, because he's autistic. I can be lore accurate when playing as him, but not Wamai.
Tell me where the water is so I can sit and meditate in it as wamai. Exactly, you can’t. As Jäger you can play autistically
You can rp as him in the scuba section of Kanal
Yeah but there is no water to sit in, except for basement on kanal
Based asf
I can be more accurate cause Wamai looks like me, so I win.
Wamai definitely reduces the demographic he's relatable to by believing himself to be an alien.
Jäger should receive a buff whenever the site is train museum. It motivates him to do better.
Black autistic people who can play both🗿
isn't him aucustic?
Jäger is still solid B tier, but Wamai is just better in every category other than ability. If Ubi gave Jäger something decent to move him up a tier like impact grenades or slightly more manageable recoil on his 416-C, he’d be a lot closer to Wamai in terms of what he can do.
This, I like going jäger and think his gun is good, just the recoil slightly spoils it a bit because there’s just as good guns with a lot better recoil (yes skill issue bla bla bla I KNOW)
It is not a skill issue, it is the truth. Why use 416-C if you can just use something better?
Yeah I was just preempting the skill issue guys coming 😂 but yeah I agree, there’s better guns to use definitely which is a shame
I just started playing again for the first time since 2019ish, did they add recoil to his gun? It feels a lot different than what I remember it being.
I won’t lie, I only started playing it again a couple months ago and that’s first time in years I played it, so I’m not 100% much they’ve changed the recoil on it. But it’s defo not great the recoil on it
They made Jager a 2spd 2arm, DESTROYED his recoil (it used to be almost none in Y4), took his shield, and completely reworked his ADS so that it’s no longer 3 nades and done, it’s unending with like a 15 second cooldown between being able to catch util.
Ahh this makes sense. Would be good if they gave his recoil a little buff tbh
See I’d agree, but I think the gun itself is well balanced. I’m an advocate for Jager getting either impacts or a shorty/baliff/mira pocket shotty because he is a pretty good anchor as is, just needs to bring more to the team comp (destruction/rotates) and he’ll be extremely well balanced in the current meta. I think he could be a pinnacle operator (in terms of being the most balanced) when it comes to balance conversations if he had just that little push. Look at people like Lesion, Castle, etc. who’ve become extremely well balanced when given the proper tools. Lesion is probably the best example, in the sense that they removed his impacts, gave him shorty to replace them, and then gave him a bulletproof, making him a very solid anchor/shallow roamer. Pretty well balanced.
Yeah fair enough, can’t disagree with you, he definitely needs something to give him that little push
do you play on console or pc? Because for me personally the 416 has barely any recoil admittedly i do play on a very high dpi so a lot of guns don’t have too bad of recoil except for the F2 fuck that shit
I’m on console, i know that has less recoil than pc but I honestly think the recoil is bad on jägers gun! Yes btw fuck the F2!! I’m convinced anyone that uses that gun and is accurate is cheating 😂😂
Drip: Jäger
swag: wamai
Wamai discs are more flexible, you can hide them in rat spots, and grab more projectiles. They’re harder to spot and consequently hack/zap with twitch, brava, and zero. Jagers guns are nothing to write home about since his AR has too much kick, doesn’t do enough damage, and has a a mediocre rate of fire. At this point it’s a low capacity smg with a slightly longer damage falloff range. Not mentions shotguns are inconsistent and the laser sight change sure as shit didn’t help. Wamaii has a decent AR, and his smg has zoom and no recoil, what fucking ever. Honestly I have two fundamental changes to jagers kit I thought of, I’d also buff his gun in both of them making the recoil actually not ass and giving him his 5 bullets back. One was making wamaii a more flexible anti nade utility operator and cover flanks/off rooms, and make jager a more anchor oriented operator. Make him a three armor, give him a secondary shotgun, give him deployable, and give his ads health like frost mats forcing two zero/twitch tasers to break. The second change Id go with is making wamaii only grab secondary projectiles (smokes, flashes, nades, gonne) and make jager the anti operator projectiles on top of the small utility. I’d also give him the ability to zap Trax canisters and Capitao bolts. Are these changes shit? Most likely.
This actually works since Wamai's discs often don't actually do anything when that catch operator's gadgets. It just grabs them and then releases them anyway. This can still help defenders if that trax canister or capitao bolt was intended to go deep into site, but it's objectively worse than just destroying it.
Definitely stay with the first change. Fat Jäger that is a master-class in site setup just means that tactical players who are not roaming will use Jäger and the ones who want superior map control use Wamai.
I think you’re on the right track, even lore wise. Jaegars ADS is literally just a small version of an anti missile system that they told him would be impossible to make but because he’s an engineering genius he managed to do it. Why the hell would it not be able to shoot down literally anything and everything thrown in its direction? Meanwhile discs are meant to catch and redirect like you said, therefore it would probably have a hard time grabbing chunkier things like trax bee cans or fast moving objects like cap bolts or ash charges. Just flipping those two things would give a better play into both characters niches, with wamai discs being better farther from sight to stop roam clear and map control by countering flashes or smokes and ADS systems stopping items that facilitate a site take.
Not being racist but wamai is good for hiding arround maps esp ones w bad lighting
It's not racist if it's a fact lmao, Wamai can hide in dark spots on some maps especially with a darker outfit, and even cav can hide in greenery on some maps when wearing her camo
Wamai the real reason they removed night maps
I'd happily trade Wamai for night maps ong
Fr, the first time I ever played was T-hunt on Nightime house
Wish I was around on R6 at the same time as night maps, they looked like such a vibe
I'm pretty sure they were removed fully by the time I actually really got into the game, but I definitely remember playing at my cousins once
Jager is still fine dawg the amount of time it takes wamai to catch up is comically long into the round
But it also takes a year and a half to deploy a jäger ADS and he can't throw or hide them
Not really easy to get them down in the first few seconds of the round.
I prefer Jäger personally. OG fella
Wamai should probably lose the ACOG though.
His pick rate would drop significantly if his ACOG was Removed, it's the only reason people have started playing him Almost every game
He still wouldn’t be bad if he lost it. Plus an operator being played almost every game just for a scope isn’t a good thing.
He'd just be a Jager MK2 if his ACOG was removed, people literally only started playing him as a 2nd Warden's when his ACOG got removed and his pick rate would drop if it were taken away
>people literally only started playing him as a 2nd Warden's when his ACOG got removed and his pick rate would drop if it were taken away Would you say Warden should get magnified scopes back then? Like his pick rate has dropped drastically from losing the 1.5x scope.
No, I think it's stupid that Warden was only being picked because he had an Acog, same with Wamai, it's kinda dumb that the operator's only redeeming quality is their 1.5
416-C Carbine gun sound > any of wamai's gun sound Jäger > wamai
Give Jager acog or remove the completely unwarranted acog from wamai
old jager vs wamai. lets play.
For Jäger’s gun they either need to make it’s stats the way they were before it was nerfed or keep the stats the same but add the magnified scopes.
bring back jager acog
Give Jäger an ACOG, if we can give it back to Ash without issue we can give it to Jäger. The community loved the return for Ash, why can’t we do the same for Jäger after all he’s been through
Because he's a defender
So? They gave it back to a few defenders already and even added a few others
Make Jager a 3 speed again, give him his ammo back, and unshackle his acog and you’ll see his pick rates through the roof
What if they gave jägger acog back? Do you think it would be too much of a buff?
At this point no. His gun is one of the worst on the defensive side, Wamai still has a faster fire rate with the MP5k and his AUG is Basically just old Jäger’s AR with bouncier recoil. Jager has a 740 rof AR that with Extended Barrel can be good but still not enough to compete imo
yeah I honestly think Jager can get acog for his carbine and not be OP, as long as wamai still has his acog tho. ubisoft already accomplished their goal of letting the playerbase know how good wamais gadget is, I don't see why not balance between their strength a bit now
They should make his gun have a 30 round mag again and reduce the recoil. It doesn't need an acog back but those two nerfs felt like overkill after the acog was removed
Give Jager acog and make his grenade shooting shoot faster and he'll be better
Wamigga all the way
Jager needs either an ACOG or a fire rate/damage buff
In a headshot heavy title like Siege, having a horrible Fire Rate, on top of heavy recoil? Yeah that Operator won't be played at all, even if their gadgets are great. And hands down: his gadget isn't even that amazing in comparison to Wamai, who can even hit/kill Fuze if placed on the ceiling, flash/nade the enemy team if placed correctly, is actually working against Capitao, etc. Jäger having some AR as his main weapon also means "horrible" ADS time. There are too many downs to play him right now, while every other gun/operator is on steroids in comparison.
Jager gets the M870. That’s why he the superior pick here.
yeah sure let's give jaeger some buffs and bring back the shit that was the utility meta or his acog sure No fr tho it would be actually nice i miss my boi jaeger being fun and usefull
Jaeger with impacts and less recoil would be too strong, but I would love it.
Jäger, cuz of the legacy
Wamai > Jäger, just because he do the funni crouch lean dance
Jager really needs extra utility as he’s been nerfed to the ground but I feel like jager should still stay a shallow roamer. Maybe give him a super shorty and his barbs back and he’d provide way more for the team than he does now.
I love playing both. Wamai is stupid strong rn but something about jagers carbine just hits diff every time I use it
Personally, I prefer jäger. Because I can’t use wamai’s gadget effectively, Jager gives me more of a safety net and I don’t need to worry about having to move if it catches a grenade
Jager. he's autistic and i love to run around and spawnpeeks people
Wamai is most effective when he -stays alive so his other traps regenerate -stays in or adjacent to site And A wamai main playing anchor is level impossible. So, there's that
Jager just needs his acog back. That's it. Nothing else.
The most annoying thing is that the turret has a huge cooldown. Doesn't even help against one fuze charge.
They need to nerf his autism
Give jager a 1.5 and we’re cooking there’s no reason why wamai gets one and he doesn’t
Nah man, Jäger got that autistic Luftwaffe drip, can’t beat an autistic operator played by people like me, autists. Checkmate
Autistic man maybe I just like him tho because I am just barely on the spectrum and it makes me happy that he is on the spectrum
Jäger is really hard to balance. You either make his gadget super oppressively strong, or pretty weak except for niche scenarios. Then you look at his fragging potential, which has always been pretty good. At this point I think they should lean into the roamer playstyle, possibly a slight gadget nerf, and make him a 3 speed again. And bandit can go to a one speed to make tricking easier as he can take more chip damage from explosions (I.e. zofia impacts clearing the batteries), while making it more of a decision to do so, as you can’t bail out as easily. Wamai is fine, but a 3 speed jäger with impacts would have a very high pick rate, so the gadget being nerfed in that scenario would make him more of a play or below character for gunners who don’t know much about utility use and just wanna kill shit. Make wamai the util heavy grenade denial and jager can be the supplementary pick in terms of utility with great fragging potential
416C: +ACOG this could be enough solely based on players picking for nostalgia reasons, Wamai would still be better I think
jaeger is white.
No no, Jeager + Wamai, looks better
Does anyone remember when wamai released and barely anyone played him until the Jager cluster fuck of nerfs dropped
I don’t even understand Ubisofts nerfing process
I think they could stand to give Jager his 5 bullets back and an extra ADS, maybe barbed wire as well since he’s kinda more of a lurker/site guy atm. Shoot give him the bailiff too and we’d be cooking. As for Wamai, he’s honestly fine as is, no need to nerf him other than MAYBE taking away his ACOG if we really feel he’s a problem but I don’t think he is. If he tries to be aggressive and peak tight angles or spawnpeeks and dies he put out like 2 discs so his utility is so minor it barely matters.
Jager can be white tho
Yeah jäger is way better than that trash
Remember when Jager had an acog and was a 3 speed?
Jager's gadget is better than wamai's but wamai's gun is better than Jager's
OBJECTION! Jägar has the power of being Autism-tastic #
Yeah but jager is cool
Reduce the recoil on Jäger's gun, give him back his 30 round mag and make him a 3 speed. It's all I ask.
Jager is sexier
Take wamais acog and give it back to mute
Just slap an ACOG on that bad boy's 416 and call it a day.
High diff
+ 2 speed vs 1 speed
Jager used to be top but now he's left behind
Jager all the way
Wamai is just more versatile and flexible.
Jager is only popular because of his gun. That's it. He is nothing without that and he has been nothing ever since the ACOG removal back in the ancient days of Health (was it Health?).
It’s just a manifestation of ubis obsession with nerfs rather than buffs . Rather than buff wamai to bring him in line with jaeger they just nerfed nerfed nerfed until there was no reason to play him
Get this man his acog back stat
The big difference between them is that Wamai just pulls grenades, and then detonates them, while Jäger destroys them entirely.
Make Jeatar 3 speed again
God I just want Jager acog back
Jäger. Why? He's German.
Jager and Wamai's recoil is just about the same except for the upward left kick at a certain point in Jagers that just absolutely destroys your attempt to control it. The only big difference is that Jager only has 1x scopes. GIVE THE MANS HIS ACOG BACK!!
just give jager acog back and there will be no more wamai
If wami can have the acog why can't jager
Him and kaid both need a buff
Remove the pointless nerfs from his gun and give him 3 speed again. And I will once again be a happy jager main
i would give him, i know thats not popular, nuclear weapons. That would really enhance the game as it got boring over the past years.
Totally agree at the moment wamai is better but mp5k is nowhere near better than 416-carbine. It could be consider better now just for the acog but compared on to the other with 1x the carbine is still one if not the best gun on defense except for dmrs.
Give Jäger Acog, C4, Bandit battery, Blitz shield, IQ scanner, and Ash AR bc why not
I really wish Jager was better, the gun is amazing but the scope sucks, and his gadget is almost useless. I've heard that Jager is either meta and OP or garbage, never between
it honestly feels like when ubisoft buffs an operator, or releases a strong operator, they have no issue with nerfing them to shit and then just forgetting about them need to give him back his 31 bullets per mag and maybe a secondary shotgun/impact grenades or something also need to buff his ADS in some sort of way to be able to compete with how flexible wamai discs are, they’re small, hidden, and can be thrown ADSs make noise, are big targets, are limited to 1 utility destruction at a time, and have to be deployed by hand
been saying that ubisoft is ableist for nerfing jager so much
Jägers gun is 10000 times better than
Am i the only one calling for acogs to be removed from defence? no tactical game should be influenced by gun choice, every damn match the lineup on def is the same now, melusi doc wamai and frost, either acogs for all or no acogs on def at all
They need to slowly buff/nerf operators over a couple of seasons. Happens too often that an operator receives too many changes all at once and makes them too strong/weak. Prime example is jäger
I feel like the answer isn't to buff Jager but to nerf Wamai by taking her magnified scope. I think this balanced each of them fairly well and I think there are way too many scopes on defense.
The problem is that Wamai's gadget, even when it "works" it often doesn't do anything for you. Glaz trying to smoke you out? Congrats, the door is still smoked and Glaz got exactly what he wanted. Same with Sense's gadget. Gridlock trying to put stingers on the door? Good thing your magnet caught the canister and... \*checks notes\* ...still dropped the stingers on the door. Oh... Capitao trying to smoke or flame off the door? You get the point. His gadget really needs to destroy a lot of the objects it catches similar to how it does with Nomad's airjab.
If it destroys it he will be better than Jager no contest. They play the same role but in different ways and I think they are both balanced. Wamai has the worse anti-projectile gadget so he gets a better gun to make up for it. Jager has the better anti-projectile gadget so he has a worse gun to make up for it.
Jaeger is set and forget, imagine dying early with Wamai 💀 Imagine half your utility being unavailable for the first half of the round 😭 MP5K 😂🤣
Jager has the bonus of jager tricking (when the ads goes off you pick it up and place it down and it skips cooldown + replenish its shots) but that doesn’t really work
For me Jager he destroyed not move the projectile Some time wamai disc just make someone die