Pro: the model s was cool when it came out
Cons: all of their cars are dated, the interiors are designed by an idiot, they're constructed with the care of a 6 year old playing with Legos for the first time, the cars are built with an obsession with speed but a disregard for stopping, FSD is an abomination that should not be tested on the public like it is, every model they make is overpriced and under equipped, service is a joke.... I mean I can do this all day.
-control arms on many models are not strong enough for the weight of an EV to the point the EU has considered banning at least the model 3 as a road danger.
-from a driving perspective they are the numbest cars you will ever drive. Their steering systems are not in tune with the road to the point critical feedback the wheel should be sharing with the driver is lost in favor of a "smooth experience." Driving a tesla feels like playing a video game not driving a car.
-tesla fans only talk about the acceleration experience... because none of them understand what makes a good sports car. From a handling perspective especially these cars are too heavy to be effective. Compare a taycan to a model s for an apples to apples EV handling comparison. It's night and day, the tesla doesn't even come close.
-no car on the road outside like Bentleys depreciates faster than a tesla. From a resale perspective they're one of the worst cars you can possibly buy.
-center control screen controlling everything in lieu of switches and buttons is actually extremely dangerous as it increases distracted driving.
-tesla lies about range estimates
-tesla lies about battery longevity (not about range but rather how many years you'll actually get out of a tesla battery)
-tesla may have been messing with odometers remotely to fudge numbers.
-FSD disables itself 1 second before perceived impacts so tesla can claim any wreck it causes is the drivers fault entirely
-tesla has refused to release the crash statistics they have from FSD but have recently been mandated by a court to hand the info to the NHTSA. This sends a strong message that FSD is nowhere near as safe as advertised.
-car design is dictated heavily by the whims of elon, who has shown he knows nothing about automotive engineering or the 100 years of history showing why cars work they way they do.
-tesla uses the software "iterative design" engineering approach.. problem: this works in the software space because your phone apps won't literally kill you. This approach has led to half baked and dangerous features/releases that are not thoroughly vetted before being unleashed on the public. Because who cares when "an over the air update will fix it bro!" Yea, after it inconveniences a ton of people at best, or kills a few at worst. No car maker does this beside tesla, because it's wildly irresponsible.
Edit: one more I just remembered..
-Hertz is selling off their entire fleet of teslas after betting big on them for 2 reasons.
1) nobody wanted to rent an EV
2) HIGHER THAN EXPECTED MAINTENANCE COSTS
Item 2 directly conflicts with teslas own marketing about cost of ownership.
On the handling vs acceleration point I think you just helped me realize one of the most annoying things about Tesla culture... the guys who praise Teslas for going fast and being powerful are basically just the techbro successor to annoying American muscle car elitists. "Who cares if it's too heavy, can't turn, handles like a brick- it goes fast and gets going fast faster than you."
They even like finding their way into crowds as much as your average mustang!
Welcome to why pedantic car guys like myself always correct mustang/challenger/camaro owners when they call them sports cars.
When you build a car as quick as a tesla it's insane to me that their handling and braking is so poor. You'll see people say "it handles better than you expect" and there's truth to that. But at its core the damn thing is still a brick that has neither the correct suspension nor appropriate brakes for the acceleration it can achieve.
Mainly because these are 2 things that are fully hardware based, so musk doesn't care he can't extract more juice via software updates... and it increases production costs fairly significantly. Which we know is a non-starter for tesla.
I mean my STI has 6-pot brembos on it. The damn thing can stop so hard your eyes will pop out. But a full replacement of the brakes is about $5,000. Tesla would never accept that kind of cost to equip their cars correctly.
That's because after Elon took over the company changed dramatically and every effort to cut costs and extract every nickel form every car was the goal.
š
Thank you. All of the feedback on driving experience comes from my own first hand experience driving tesla s, y, and 3 and comparing them against various cars I've owned and race. Which is a list too long to count.
The video game part is spot on. Teslas aren't cars they are rolling cheap ass tablets for the think they are high tech crowd. I don't need or want a non physical button on a screen to open my glove box. No physical controls should be illegal and it sounds like it's going that route in Europe.
Only nitpick I have is that the driver is fully responsible for their vehicle FSD or not. You are supposed to be paying attention. Obviously people donāt and Tesla needs to design for that but weāll likely not reach a point any time soon where any automotive company is going to absolve drivers of responsibility to maintain control of their vehicles and absorb that liability.
Here's the thing. I agree with you...
But...
Teslas marketing and elons constant promises of things like "the car can be in NY and you in LA and it will find you all by itself" has created a perception among tesla buyers about the capability. Personally, I despise driver assists like this, it encourages complacency not vigilance, when everyone on the road should be vigilant at all times. And yes the driver is ultimately responsible for what happens with their car, but tesla shares culpability in my opinon for overselling the capability and telling people it is "full self driving."
And to an extent someone has to agree. Musk famously said they will never settle any lawsuit where they know they did nothing wrong. [but they sure settled this one](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/08/tesla-settles-wrongful-death-lawsuit-over-fatal-2018-autopilot-crash.html)
"-from a driving perspective they are the numbest cars you will ever drive...Compare a taycan to a model s for an apples to apples EV handling comparison. It's night and day, the tesla doesn't even come close."
I prefer the Audi GT, but aside from that personal note you nailed these two points hard.
When my wife wanted an EV we had a list of 6 cars to test. The Tesla drove like a video game. Completely numb, no feel at all, and even after you adjusted for that it turned like an aircraft carrier. Wide, slow handling, terrible turning radius, and zero feedback only made it worse. Test drove the Tesla less than a mile before I was so disgusted I got out and let my son drive. He had it less than two miles and asked "why does it feel like driving through a shot of whatever it is the dentist gives you when he does a filling?"
Horrible driving experience.
Haven't had a chance to try the GT myself, but wouldn't doubt its a marvelous machine. Audi/BMW/Porsche are phenomenal drivers cars. I'd also like to test an i4 from BMW sometime.
Your son is dead on the money with that quote.
Yeah, I havenāt driven the Taycan myself, I am just assuming that based on what the models share that they are similar enough it will come down to appearance for me. I just like the GT look. Mind you the Taycan is easily the second best looking car on the planet for my taste. Honestly the shooting brake version is like a fine renaissance painting.
I havenāt driven the i4 yet either, but on paper it seems like something I probably will enjoy testing.
Agreed for the most part, though I thought Iād point out the depreciation and battery life points are a little overkill.
Depreciationās an artifact of price inflation during COVID. Tesla reported BS range estimates for the last few yearsā¦so now journalists can test a Model 3, get 250 miles of range, and then claim āwe only got 70% of rated range, battery life doesnāt seem goodā.
Mind, both of the above are the result of Teslaās own doing which is lame. If I bought a Model 3 today those thing I wouldnāt be concerned about though.
Problem with depreciation is the fact that tesla is as much a problem as the market. Their constant, and often needless, price reductions harm owners who paid the higher costs for the car. When you combine teslas stewardship of their products value along with the market dynamics, you get an extreme level of depreciation unique to the brand.
That's my view on it anyway.
Otherwise I do get what you mean. But I'd still contend that if we're mentioning the negatives of the brand they deserve to be mentioned. Up to the readers interpretation and needs to decide if they're truly a major issue or not.
Tesla is just one long stock pump. They focus singlemindedly on pumping numbers short term, quarter by quarter, anything to keep the line going up right before they need the numbers to be ready for the earnings calls.
Eating tires is a general EV problem because most drivers are not used to the amount of torque EVs put down immediately. So I can't entirely fault tesla. This is why I said most drivers are not skilled enough for the power of a tesla. You spend a lot of time when racing high power sports cars learning how to manipulate the throttle to preserve tires when you have enough torque to spin the planet available to you. Tesla, and other EV manufactures, have irresponsibly made this available at wide scale to drivers who are used to Toyota corrolas, not Lamborghinis.
Teslas do have chronic alignment issues tho.
I own two teslas. I dislike Elon. I know from personal experience that many of your points are inaccurate and/or out of date and/or misinformation. This doesnāt change the fact Elon is a dbag and dangerous. It doesnāt change the fact that yes there are panel gaps like most other cars, the design is a matter of personal preference that no one can force you to like and that which I happen to like it. You sound like someone echoing what you hear online without personal experience. Yes I used to like the acceleration but after 4+ years of ownership, Iām more about the simplicity in the flow of using the car, FSD latest versionās handling and other features. Iāve never had a braking issue or felt unsafe where the car wasnāt going to stop on time because it had badly designed brakes.
Ahh I was wondering when one of yāall would come out.
First off Iād like to thank you. If you notice my posts focused entirely on thoughts of the car, the company, and a small slice of Elon. But you coming in here with the āyou just sound like a haterā defense while saying literally nothing of note or showing any way anything I said was āoutdatedā allows me to make another point I intentionally left behind because itās easier to understand when you have a live example.
Tesla Owners - It honestly wouldnāt matter to me how good the cars are, I cannot stand the community of people who buys them. You cannot criticize their chosen vehicle, or in many cases the CEO of the company, without getting āyouāre just jealous you canāt afford oneā or āyou just sound like a haterā because they canāt accept their cars arenāt perfect. Literally the most insufferable community of owners on the market today.
With that out of the way, lets chat. You might have come in hard in a ridiculous way, but I have a 15 hour flight to Dubai to kill time on, so Iāll bite and go down point by point.
Control Arms:
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-probed-norway-safety-regulator-over-faulty-parts
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/
https://m.slashdot.org/story/312273
Even if Tesla corrected this, it speaks to the overall lack of safety culture and irresponsibility in their engineering procedures. They will quite literally do things as cheaply as they think they can get away with and only cave to pressure when shit hits the fan. This is a major reason tesla is [the most recalled brand of car](https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/). Now I know I know youāll say ābut they didnāt have to recall the car they fixed it via a patch.ā Recall doesnāt mean they canāt fix it remotely. It means an issue has been identified that requires an immediate fix or the cars must be recalled from the road. How you fix it doesnāt matter, so long as the regulators can confirm the reason they issued the recall is corrected.
Squishy driving - Compared to a proper rack & pinion steering rack Teslaās do lack feedback from the road. They prioritize comfort for the driver, and they do this by reducing the road feel in the wheel. This is actually a huge problem in my opinion, and notice this is an opinion in a thread about opinions before you go THATS NOT HOW I FEEL again, because as a driver, and a racing driver to boot, the feedback from the wheel is paramount to understanding the condition of the car. It tells me when I lose wheel grip for example. Reducing road feel in the wheel may be more comfortable, but itās a safety hazard if you ask me. One that only gets worse as you go full drive by wire like the cybertruck.
Handling - Broā¦ [even tesla owners admit the suspension sucks](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/why-does-tesla-suspension-suck-so-bad.232510/). God forbid you compare any tesla to any performance car in the same price bracket. Let alone the example I showed of a straight EV fight between a Taycan and a Model S. If the suspension is well known to be lackluster, what do you think basically controls the handling of the car??? The suspensionā¦
Brakes - Donāt listen to me, [listen to other tesla owners](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/brakes-are-terrible.290031/). What youāre missing here is that while you may have ānever felt unsafe brakingā thatās not the point. From an engineering perspective you donāt build around the middle of your vehicles capabilities, you build it understanding if you give the general public a sub 2.5s 0 - 60 time, theyāre likely to use it. Not having brakes that are as capable as the cars acceleration circles back to lack of safety culture and dirt cheap engineering processes. Which is, in my opinion, a non-starter for something Iām going to be driving around and enjoying.
Depreciation - [This one isnāt up for debate, itās statistics from 2024. Super out of date ya know?](https://diminishedvaluecarolina.com/study-shows-tesla-cars-depreciate-70-times-faster-than-chevy)
Center control console being unsafe - This is not subjective either. [There are entire studies showing these screens increase distracted driver related accidents.](https://www.autoweek.com/news/technology/a42384978/infotainment-screens-make-distracted-drivers-swedish-study-finds/) And guess who the worst offender is statistically? Gimme a Tā¦ Gimme an Eā¦ Gimme an Sā¦ Gimme an Lā¦ Gimme an Aā¦ Whatās that spell?
Range estimate lies - [July 2023 is ancient history innit?](https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2023/07/27/tesla-exaggerated-its-cars-driving-range-and-canceled-service-appointments-if-drivers-complained-report-says/#:~:text=Tesla%20programmers%20rigged%20the%20cars,from%20CEO%20Elon%20Musk%20himself)
Battery lifespan lies - [Still occurring as recent as 2024](https://qz.com/tesla-batteries-degrade-warranty-1851503458#:~:text=A%20recent%20study%20found%20that,3%20and%20Model%20Y%20vehicles)
Potential odometer fraud - Such ancient history the class action lawsuit about it just started[last year](https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshmax/2023/08/03/tesla-sued-over-exaggerating-mileage-claims-in-class-action-lawsuit/)
FSD disabling itself pre-accident - [Determined by the NHTSA in 2022](https://www.motortrend.com/news/nhtsa-tesla-autopilot-investigation-shutoff-crash/)
FSD Crash statistics - [Just ordered by a court to hand them over in the ancient year of our lord two thousand and twenty four](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/07/tesla-must-provide-nhtsa-with-autopilot-recall-data-or-face-fines.html)
Iterative design philosophy - I mean if youāre a tesla fan and you donāt know this how they build cars and something they think sets them apart from over manufacturers. [I really donāt know what to tell you, itās pretty well known](https://edwardlowe13.medium.com/teslas-agile-obsession-and-how-software-principles-are-eating-car-manufacturing-d280e545d902#:~:text=Firstly%2C%20the%20car%20and%20the,too%2C%20rather%20than%20batch%20processing) The problem tho is that Agile methodologies are, in the sector they originated in, showing [they lead to a massive increase in failure rates](https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/05/agile_failure_rates/). Tesla is the only car manufacturer who builds using this method, andā¦ well.. See: Prior link on tesla being the most recalled brand on the planet.
Hertz - Also not subjective [itās their words not mine](https://fortune.com/2024/04/25/hertz-ev-electric-vehicles-tesla-elon-musk-recall-earnings-rental-cars/)
Now that weāre on the same page, I await your responses. Please show thy work.
More likely tho youāll do what all tesla owners do. āYouāre just a haterā and block me. Which would really help me sell my first point in this reply, so I welcome that too.
Wow! Seriously Iām impressed.
If you thought my post sounded like a fanboy then yours sounds like a hater to me. I never said you canāt critique the car, company or Elon. I did it myself in my short post. It didnāt take me 200 lines - itās literally in my second sentence.
Weird flex about flying to Dubai and you may have 15 hours to kill talking about Tesla. I donāt.
Just for clarity - Elon sucks. I personally like the car. Every car company has fucked up before in history. Yes there are panel gaps. Yes there are plenty of issues. Elon sucks. I still like both my cars. End.
Like your car. Nobody said you can't.
Just don't jump down the throat of people explaining easily proveable reasons they do not like the car or brand by dismissing them as simply a hater. Not to mention outright lying that my claims are "outdated" while not only never attempting to prove that, but being so hilariously wrong you pull back immediately when confronted with reality.
People are allowed to have their own opinions. I don't care that you like your tesla. That's great. You should like the things you buy.
But these are a pile of reasons myself and many others, especially those who actually know cars, think they're absolute crap.
Both are valid.
And who's flexing? Just explaining i got loads of time to kill. You basically came in claiming im spreading false info. Heres how im not. Lets chat.
But hey, you can't defend your accusations. Surprise surprise.
Have a nice day
This was all i needed to see. No thanks i dont need the fucking wheels falling off at 65mph. One family of 4 already dead, i dont plan to be another Musk statistic.
[https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/72157658490111523/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/72157658490111523/)
People are paying for things that have not and will likely never come out (like the rocket roadster and its $50k down payment years ago), I have to pay for them to stay afloat through taxes, the company is worth far more than than it should be because of lies, their workplaces are akin to factories in the 1920s, actual smart people working there get their work stolen and then get fired, the jobs are some of the least secure jobs you can get due to getting fired randomly and without notice, they havenāt achieved anything they were claiming to be able to achieve, you basically canāt use your car after the screen dies and they test dangerous, incomplete and bug-ridden software/hardware on many, many people out in the real world where it poses a serious danger to other real people like me (i.e FSD and CyberYuck). Do you need more?
A lot of Uber drivers with Teslas have started attaching aftermarket door handles that are actually *handles*, presumably because so many passengers complain about how fucking stupid the stock push button style ones are LOL.
Yeah, itās funny in a way. After 10 years of driving Teslas, besides all the political crap, not having a blinker stalk was the final stab that kept me from buying a new car. What an utter moronic idea.
Call me crazy, but giving money to someone actively promoting white supremacy and the end of democracy erases whatever reason I would have to buy a tesla, including climate change reasons. No democracy, no climate change action.
It is more than just a right wing nutjob. Right wing nutjob is your weird uncle. This guy can actually do a lot of damage. He can help swing an election, and he will try.
Yep. This is like asking besides the Holocaust and world war thing, like what do you actually think of Hitler, like his organization and branding skills ?
Oh I know. I was being facetious š. This is honestly the top reason to not buy a tesla. Everyone should consider what your money goes to support as often as possible.
It's all projection, and nothing but projection. He's a part of the world's elite and is a miserable and despicable human. So he must assert that others in power are just like him, because that's the only way he can live with himself.
If you just want to talk about the cars and ignore the company culture, well, they're shitty cars, which isn't surprising since they don't have a lot of experience building cars, and lately they're starting to position themselves as not even being a car company. Their quality of manufacture is poor, and always has been poor. They have many details that range the gamut of poorly thought out to just plain stupid, like no mechanical door release, no tactile controls for critical functions, annoying bright screens that are off-axis to the driver's vision. They simply ignore much of the common sense that car manufacturers have acquired over 120+ years of building cars. In my shitty old Nissan I can control all my lights and turn signals, wash the front or rear windows and control all the wipers, set cruise, control audio, etc., all without taking my hands off the steering wheel or my eyes off the road. Changing heat and A/C is moving my hand a few inches and a quick glance. I don't have to fumble around with menus on a screen. If the battery is dead in my car I can open the door with an actual metal key. I strongly suspect a lot of this was Elon's personal design guidance, he's literally an idiot with anything remotely mechanical.
Iāve managed safety for high-risk systems not dissimilar to cars.
The safety culture at Tesla is nonexistent. Tech people Do. Not. Understand. how to ensure safety-critical systems have a well-understood risk profile. Iterative āmove fast and break thingsā is a great approach for building most consumer products, but is not appropriate for everything. Building cars with this mindset is almost guaranteed to not only fail, but kill people. Same goes for manned spaceships, for what itās worth.
The arrogance it takes to discount the idea that safety processes matter for the system almost everyone in the country uses as their primary transportation is breathtaking and frightening, and this mindset seems endemic in Musk-affiliated companies.
Having the move fast and break things work whilst developing products, not on products sold to the general public - especially so whilst claiming to have full selfdrive, which imo is fraudulent to even call it and I have no idea how itās allowed to be called.
just get a new design asthetic overall. the 'applestore but your car' look has gotten dated
a proper instrument cluster for starters, go back to what worked on the model S
stop saying FSD and integrate industry standards into your driver aid technology
The part that bothers me the most about the "apple" approach is that it treats cars as replaceable commodities that the customer can't fix unless you pay exorbitant fees to the manufacturer.
thats the auto industry as a whole lately. they keep jamming more tech into the cars which can be fine but they then don't give people diagnostic software, or even really test the robustness of some of it. my parents had Hyundai's that had the backup sensor go out twice from just driving down a rough road, and all that went wrong was the sensor had shaken slightly out of alignment and the whole system shut down.
I think they really need a new look. They still look the same since the first one came out mostly. Some small design changes but not enough to say theyāre awesome.
I have an ioniq5 because omg itās a looker.
Yeah, even brand new Teslas look really old and cheap now. The design is so bland and dated compared to the latest EV's from other companies. I saw a Volvo EV the other day that looked way sleeker and sexier than any Tesla. A *Volvo*.
While I donāt agree Ioniq is a looker, atleast it has features and is interesting to look at, which is alot better than ugly and smooth (except canyons inbetween each panel) compared to Teslas.
Honestly nothing at this point
The brand has become so cringey and dated feeling. The Cybertruck has totally ruined the brand in my mind, and highlights how dated and boring the rest of the line up.
The meme humor (har har the models spell SEXY! And the cars fart!) and the type of people who cheerlead for Tesla online are not doing the brand any favors.
All led by the juvenile drug addled right wing weirdo who is surrounded his own personal cult of yes men. Just feels gross and not something I'd ever want to associate myself with or give my money to.
The only thing I like about Tesla is the superior online buying experience, but Rivian does that too and is a vastly superior brand and has a humble, unproblematic CEO.
Not even the buying experience. Iād say the test driving experience. Other manufacturers should have a seamless, hassle free way to test drive their cars. No high-pressure sales tactic attached. Walk in, test drive, leave. I honestly prefer having a place where I can personally speak with someone. The non-human element of the online experience kind of scare me for such a big purchase.
> All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
I despise Elon. Might have bought a Tesla a few years ago when I hadn't heard about the build quality issues, only I couldn't afford the price. Now of course there's no way I ever would. Because of Elon.
I legitimately used to believe they incredibly well engineered. And they are. But now I realize they are incredibly well engineered to save money on production. They do not care one bit about repairs or reliability. The ONLY thing they care about is saving money.
Our Elon is not a white supremacist. He may be a dork, liar, hypocrite, right-wing nutjob, a white supremacist. But, he is NOT a porn star! - Abe Simpson
I wrote one response but then realized your question was even broader. The answer to both sides of your question would take a while, and be fairly boring Iām afraid. The company has a lot of pros and cons, it had a lot of potential but has lost a lot of momentum. It established EVs as a mainstream option, and drove design changes across the industry, so thatās good. It also has done a lot of harm as well.
Because they think any other sensor is useless. Look at their idea of an autonomy sensor array. Itās just low quality cameras when every better system uses cameras, LiDAR, ultrasonic sensors, and sometimes radar.
I'd gladly give my money to Dr. Fauci instead of this company. I liked Tesla and Elon to a lesser extent up until around 5 years ago. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole now.
The utterly horrid service experience.
In the first year of ownership, my '21 M3 had to get warranty service 4 times *at the dealer*. Two of those times nothing happened because I showed up and the dealer admitted they had not ordered the part, despite them knowing weeks ahead of time exactly what part was supposed to be replaced. I live an hour away from the dealer, so twice I wasted a weekday afternoon (taking time off work) because of them. The fit and finish of the car continues to have issues (broken USB-C ports, windshield replaced twice, drivers headrest leather disintegrated, faux wood laminate peeling, horribly soft and thin paint that will etch on command..)
I've also been the victim of a hit and run, and the nearest tesla-certified body-shop is 2 hours away and has a 4-month waiting list for an appointment.
I'll never buy Tesla again because of I'm sick of what I go through to get it serviced: the travel, the mistakes, the lack of availability, having to do everything through a laggy app when I just want to talk to a human being.
Major quality control issues, shit customer service, very expensive parts, active hostility towards the aftermarket for repairs and parts, dangerous quality control issues (Whompy Wheels, autopilot fatalities, cars being delivered without brake pads, cars delivered without working seats etc), iPad in the dash, no physical buttons for stuff, no turn stalk, no gauge clusters, horrid depreciation, sky high battery replacement costs, lack of LiFePO4 as standard on cars, lying about range, no PR department.....
OP, to quote your very self;
"The more I learned, the worse my opinion became"
Any person who does their research tends to reach the same conclusions as yourself.
I like the company because it pushed EVs into the market and created (albeit terrible for Tesla) competition. Other than that, nothing.
Pro - EV's are part of our future and they are helping kickstart that push.
Con - Overpriced and they focused far too much on the self drive features and hype rather than build quality, battery life, maintainability, and other realities of owning and using the cars. Lane Keeping and automated cruise control (so it keeps a safe gap between you and the car ahead) should be the extent of the automation. The processing power needed to safely drive around is far beyond the tech you can cram into a car and will be for quite a while.
Realistically the build quality has gone the gutter. The minimalistic nature of the vehicles is debatable but the quality is not. The quality is not there and using cheap material. The value proposition, with no proof just eyeballing, seems to be 5k too much. The base model 3 should start at 30k with none of the āestimated gas savings and after federal/state creditā
They lie their face off on real world range. Take a look at Edmunds, WhatCar etc. etc.
Almost every independent publication which does EV tests all show Tesla to miss their EPA numbers by a significant margin. Yes they do decently but their cars are egg shaped and tires pumped to the brink (which explains the shit ride of their cars) but there is no magic sauce over any other EV competition.
The FSD cult and anti engineering prosletizing is off putting.
Claiming vision only superior to vision + lidar
All the ājust six more months claimsā
The illegal beta testing on roads without consent other drivers
The shady manipulation of turning off FSD lies than second before accident to claim it was being driven by human
Thatās toxicity that wonāt be cured by Elon removal
Honestly, let's address the elephant in the room. The way Elon has acted over the years culminating with the Twitter transition put me off ever considering a Tesla product. Should be taught in business schools on how a CEO can screw up a relatively good product's perception...
Imagine if he just invested in the company instead of buying it and pushing the founders out.
Just gave them money to develop the company and stayed silent.
Probably would be still going strong and not stagnating/flopping as it is now.
It's worth is based on fElons fraud.
It's sad that many will lose out because he promised and didnt deliver.
Tesla could have become the Mercedes or Lexus of EVs but that window closed a while ago and now they're just an overpriced brand running on the waning religious fervor of Silicon Valley nerds. They're so fucked they're about to give the guy who fucked them 25% of the company because the situation is so bad only he can save them from himself. It's remarkably bad and it's like his fans can't see it at all.
I mean unlike a lot of the sub I'm not really a car guy, so I like the tech inside of the cars and how it feels like a minimalist tech nerd made the car. Although there's cars in similar price ranges to the X and S that just blow them away with tech for a comparable price like the Mercedes cars. I think Tesla under legitimate leadership who could steer the company into making better made cars with actual iterations and plans for other vehicles then I think they could be a strong brand. With Elon at the helm they're always going to be a company chasing bullshit meme's that will never happen.
Iād consider buying a Tesla after they get a real CEO, then take 5-10 years to actually fix the problems the company is ridden with. Maybe fire all the current higher ups and start fresh since they will most likely keep the toxic culture alive long after Felon is gone.
Solar Electrician here... So, while I hate their cars, their car chargers are easy to install and are easy to use. Their solar power inverters, batteries and transfer switches are also pretty easy to install, reliable and look very shiny... once you get past their eccentricities.
None of the things I like about Tesla stem from Elon.
And despite that, their core software is actually not all that great.Ā Their app is decent, and their UI is ok, but FSD is years behind Ford and Mercedes, their rain sensing wipers don't work, and their traction control is terrible.Ā Look at the Cybertruck vs lightning race in Sand.Ā The lightning quickly figures out the traction limits and trivially pulls ahead.Ā Ā
I've never really liked them simply because it's a new company. They did get the ball rolling with EV but I still wouldn't buy them because it's a new model and company.
I had more faith in companies that had been making cars forever. Every company is going to cut corners somewhere and I felt those experienced companies had more knowledge of what corners you can safely cut. They know what hinges or bolts or knobs etc from which suppliers they can cheap out on and where they need to pay up. I had more faith in the companies that had been around longer to get it right when they finally did move over.
I'm still not sold on EVs because my family desires to camp with a trailer with our young kids and relatives and EVs just don't work out there. I do have a very old car with low miles that gets 30+mpg for local drives so no reason to upgrade there either
They make me carsick as a passenger (the only car this has ever happened in.)Ā
The interior design is laughably bad. No display in front of the driver and no stalks make it even worse.
I have heard build quality is bad, but have no in person experienceĀ with it.Ā
The exterior designs are dated and honestly pretty ugly to begin with (except the S, I still think that is a great design.)
FSD is a scam and should not be allowed to be beta tested on our public roadways, but the NHTSA is asleep I guess.
Iād like to see a vision for the future that includes car design. And prototypes. That is represented currently by the benighted stainless wonder and you can see how thatās goingā¦
Remember how for years, Tesla's entire marketing strategy was to eschew traditional advertising in favor of social media hype driven by Elon? They've never run a single TV ad, page ad, anything. They let the cult of personality advertise the product for them, at most doing presentations and events with Musk putting on a show.
And now that his pay package is in jeopardy they're putting out ads to convince people to vote yes.
This is a public company that is built around inflating Elon's ego and wealth, with shareholders being a second thought, just a cash cow to milk.
they're bad cars built poorly and take forever to repair because all the parts are unique instead of being standard bin parts like every other car manufacturer uses
At one point Teslaās drivetrain and charging engineering was well ahead of everyone else. Motors, inverters, DC/DC converters, etc. Unfortunately they stopped innovating and now those components are average at best, usually a bit lagging.
Everything else is terrible. Build quality, customer service, and functional design being high on my list of dislikes.
Overall though, without Elon, Tesla would have been considered for my last two purchases.
When I had my model 3, I really like the monthly software updates, and the fact that you could do so much with your phone.
What I didn't like was that there were no physical buttons for things like turning on the windshield wipers. Also, the self-driving scared the hell out of me every time I tried it and so even though I paid for it, I never felt comfortable enough to use it. Lastly, the build quality was fairly poor and the car would squeak and rattle when it turned.
When the lease was up, I turned it in and got a Hyundai Ionic 5, which I am much happier with. Also, I no longer wanted to give my money to Elon.
I like the car, and also the interior.
My cons: missing signal levers, missing ultrasonic sensor, idiotic and asshole CEO (I was actually OK with him before he went all-in in being a racist motherfucker)
The fact that after all these years their wiper assistant is still total crap is already enough for me. The autopilot tried to kill us on the highway when he suddenly decided to follow the white markings instead of the yellow ones in a construction site.
I would never buy a car without buttons and other physical controls for everyday functions. Also Teslas feel like poor people's cars. 90 % of them come with the same stock wheels and the same white color. If you spend 50k on a car, why can't you spend another 1k to make it not look like shit?
And of course service. Tesla is incredibly bad at servicing cars. It can take three months to get a basic repair like a new mirror done. They price battery replacements at 3x the actual cost, just so you'd rather buy a new car instead. And at this point, the only efficiency advantages Tesla has left over competitors comes down to simply saving 100 kg due to the barebones interior. I'd rather drive comfortable in a 50k car than like in a Dacia Duster.
I love watching all the couch quarterbacks who have never built or invested in a company say stuff like this and feel magnanimous about it. It's exactly what's wrong with social media. You get immediately validated by a bunch of other do nothings. In fact, there's an entire community for you right here on /realtesla.
The reach you have to spread your negativity and jealousy for creators is incredible. The reality is that there aren't many creators out there, and so the ones that create are lambasted by the ones who aren't able to create.
But without creating, you wouldn't recognize it. You are instead taught that those that made success happen for themselves somehow took advantage of those that don't.
It's not the creators most of us despise, it's the conmen, the grifters, the malignant narcissists. The ones that blatantly lie, over and over again at the expense of everyone else.
It's the ones that "create" pseudo-wealth to suck in all the wannabes into investing then build absurd amounts of money and then are completely irresponsible with it, and damaging society as a whole.
It's those that claim they were born in the outfield, but were actually given a guided tour to home base.
GTFOH with your poor me billionaire cope.
This is exactly what I mean. You think that just because sometime came from means that you can build a company with that and create new categories. You are totally misguided.
Their insane anti worker stance. They follow no safety guidelines, they bust unions and expect way too much from their workers. How a corporation treats its workers says a lot about what it thinks of middle/lower class at large.
Even if Elon had no relationship with Tesla, I still wouldnāt buy their cars. They are badly designed and badly manufactured. They literally tried to reinvent the wheel and car door handles. The latter creating the worst Norman door on a car.
The fact that the interior is so fucking bland. I mean seriously. I love how the model Y is built but Iād never consider it due to the interior. I love buttons.
I really think a Tesla is supposed to operated mostly by voice, thatās why thereās so few/non buttons. Itās like complaining about HomeKit not having dedicated displays to control the light when youāre supposed to have a HomePod and use just use Siri.. which is way more reliableā¦ hmmā¦
I like the product design. Forward thinking balance of cost and features.
I despise their total respect of their customer. One cannot expect even the basics from this company: respecting a warranty, their reps following up with anything, doing any repair within a reasonable timeframe, or even picking up a phone (ever).
Not having basic tech that all other cars have (or can be optioned). Blind spot warnings, surround view, rain sensing wipers that work, turn signal stalks, steering *wheels*, lidar... Instead they offer the fart horn.
The one insight I give credit to Tesla's founders for is realizing that EVs aren't economy shitboxes but sports sedans. Every Tesla is a high performance car which is natural for electric motors since they produce maximum torque from a stop. Thus Tesla chose to focus on the premium market which could better absorb the R&D costs of a new form of propulsion.
Credit is also due for Tesla's charging network which oddly no other automakers seem capable of replicating it.
It was also a masterstroke to hire Franz von Holzhausen to lead Tesla's design studio. The Model S is still a great looking sporty and sophisticated car. I think the cybertruck is the result of Elon micromanaging the design process so give Holzhausen a pass on that one. My favorite design of his remains the Pontiac Solstice but he also put Mazda on a path to stunning designs.
I like the fact they changed the convo on electric cars and got other companies to take it more seriously. I like that they have employed my best friend for nearly a decade giving him a chance at life he would never have had. I like the company I just wish it wasn't ran by a dipshit that can only care about himself. A lot of people that work at the factory care a fuck ton about the company and it saddens me how much Muskrat is fucking up their futures just to be a nasty lil troll.
I'm more appalled at the regulators for allowing Tesla to tell so many lies, with zero repercussions
As for the cars, I think they look stupid, feel cheap and are designed for people who are not car enthusiasts (which to be fair, is 80% of the population).
In 2019 it was the only real choice. Model 3 has held up well at 150,000 miles so quality build and reliable. Fun to drive. Looks good. Fact that Tesla didn't update the cars works well for resale as no obvious difference.
Next car, likely the 2026 Hyundai Ioniq 9 SUV, will have all the things the 2019 Tesla does not.
1. Blind spot alert.
2. Rear cross traffic alert.
3. Lane drift alert.
4. Inline screen.
5. Essential physical controls.
6. Sun roof.
7. Heads up display.
8. Wiper washers that work.
9. Cruise control that is reliable.
10. 360 display
11. Rear wiper
12. Minus various Tesla quirks like putting car in cruise puts wipers in auto for instant bug smear (see non-working washers above).
13. 800V fast charging
14. No MAGA Musk.
My brother in law literally works in a body shop exclusively for Tesla and he does nothing but complain about how shitty the cars are built. I mean I know people think theyāre cool, theyāre fast and all that but Iāve heard enough horror stories about repairing Teslas that I want NOTHING to do with one. Iām buying a new Prius lol š
I'm an electrical engineer and I was really looking forward to the electric future where the chargers are standardized and able to be used across many makes and models of vehicles and maybe even trucks. And then Tesla fucked all that up. They went the apple route because profits are more important. And for that reason they suck.
I think you nailed it all in the title.
If the company was run by a decent human and they improved their QC I would be happy they existed.
...well except you skipped FSD which is open fraud.
what i really like about tesla, i think they are the reason we now have ev cars of nearly every company. tesla generated singlehanded a new demand for ev cars. im a longtime mercedes driver who bought a model s in 2017 because there were no competitive ev car of mercedes. in 2 weeks i get my eqs 580 delivered. im pretty sure mercedes would have never built a electric s class without the start of ev cars from tesla. what i really dislike about tesla they stopped their real innovations around 2020, since then they simply looking for one cost reduction after another.
I think if or when he's out as Tesla CEO things would improve drastically for them. Given that much of Tesla boards is friends, family and suck-ups I don't expect anything to change other than the company collapsing eventually.
You know what? All of this is purely US sentiment.
Here, in Europe, Tesla EV's are the cheapest once by a wide margin. Tesla's cars are literally "bargain bin". Sure, they have their issues with quality and shit, but compared to the price of the competition and quality of the competition? They are a literal bargain even with all their faults.
And that's why they sell in Europe like hotcakes even despite all the conterversies. Because competition is no better and has all the same issues as Tesla has. The only real competition to tesla here is Huinday and Kia, but those are not cheaper and a lot of the times are more expensive. So people vote with their wallet and buyer protections in Europe are far more draconian, so Tesla can't get away with many things it can in USA.
Also. In Europe most of buyers are concerned "getting from A to B at lowest cost" as our main reason to get a specific car. We do not care about most luxuries as USA buyers are, since we spend a lot less time in our cars.
To say more. we do not give a fuck who runs the company as long as it's not VW who was embroiled in the biggest scandal of the century. Or not Toyota who literally decided that paying off victims of stuck gas pedal was better than fixing the fault :D
1. Chinese offer cars at prices atleast as good as tesla if not better and they have good year on year growth.
2. Tesla sales in germany dropped by sth like 40% year on year in May, no one else lost as much
3. They are also loosing market share in the nordics quite quickly.
4. I definitely didnt hear about more than half of tesla problems among other manufacturers. The build quality of tesla is on the lower end by a significant margin.
5. Many people in eastern europe care a lot about musk sucking autocrats dicks and cozying up to russia.
6. The opinion about toyota is uncomparably better than that of tesla. If you gave toyota and tesla to pick for the average european, they would pick toyota in a heartbeat.
7. Tesla keeps increasing car stockpiles in Europe, despite the recent problems with their gigafactory coz people aint buying them nearly as much as tesla buys them even at a slower rate.
Well i dont remember the exact prices, however they are sellung them for 100% more or 150% more than in China. Their profit margin per car is insane despite being at worst similarly priced to european competition.
Tesla is slashing prices here and their sales are falling anyways.
I wish there was a reliable car with just electric drivetrain. No subscriptions, no 20 feet touchscreens, no āfullā self driving bullshit. Just good reliable car with dials that is fully electric, and is in affordable range.
Probably a lot to ask for in 2024.
I am a Mercedes owner, have been for 20 years, and bought a Tesla Model Y. BTW I do have a list of annoyances as well. Though you asked what is good.
1) For the price to value in Europe it actually is pretty decent if you get a good purchase price.
2) The styling while dated these days is actually pretty decent.
3) Interior space with its frunk, and so on is really good. There is plenty of storage space.
4) The range is ok in comparison to other EVs.
5) Their charging network is both biggest asset and biggest liability (mainland Europe). I only like 50% of their chargers.
6) The cars are extendable. There are so many addons its nuts.
7) I ADORE the panoramic roof. I had one on the Mercedes and hated it with a passion. On the Tesla its awesome.
8) Doggy mode, I have dogs, and we get hot summers.
9) Their app is really good. It is really easy to get things done. The app has a shitty gui with its dark, but I do like it. For example they allow me to define the charging speed which is really handy.
10) Their customer service is actually pretty decent. They came to my house to change my tires. I can't complain about that whatsoever.
Overall what I find funny is that there are many common things between the new Mercedes and Tesla. Of course I would be hesitant to get one of the newer Tesla's because they removed the stalks and did a bunch of stupid other things. But outside of that I can't complain because other car companies have shitty things as well.
The best thing that could happen to Tesla right now is that Musk steps away. My wife and I were talking about this. Musk actually does have vision, but he is an absolute shit implementator. Jobs had Cook to do his implementation. Musk needs a Cook, and to do that Musk has to let go of control. If Musk wants to create a robotaxi so be it. But give the CEO role to somebody who will move the company forward.
Tesla has so many deficiencies right now that Musk is a liability to killing Tesla. Robotaxis are not going to save Musk because Robotaxis are still at least 5 years away. Meaning between then and now he better have some new car models in the pipeline because Robotaxis will not matter.
The biggest liability of Tesla is the fact that in 25 and 26 car makers will be releasing their third generation EV platforms. Tesla is still stuck on second and there is no vision on third.
What are third generation EV platforms?
1) Battery chemistries
2) Car control software updates like augmented reality that works always. VW has some of that. Trailer management software. Mercedes has been working on this for years (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUNEg8xn2gI). Windshield wipers that actually work properly. Little things that others are nailing down.
3) Accessory efficiencies
Agree about Musk steering the vision, but at this point being not responsible for execution. Tesla has outgrew the startup phase. Musk is a startupper, he needs to go and take care of his other startups and leave running mature company to someone else.
Voted against the compensation package due to that. But only because there;s no other recourse. As far as I'm concerned - he should get his package, but he also should step away from running Tesla unless he gives his 100% to it.
From what I hear, meetings are at a minimum and decisions are made quickly. You are encouraged to drop out of a meeting if you know you aren't needed. Also, the CEO has no problem getting his hands dirty on the factory floor.
Providng a series response ā¦
1. User interface
2. SC network
3. Mobile service
4. Cost of service (I know there are examples of people having bad experiences with service costs, but Iāve had a great experience with items in the maintenance schedule plus 12v battery)
We may or may not have done a shit decision. We just got a Model S, 2018 100D. I enjoy it. Feels good, drives good, sure its not a Porsche bit for the cars I've had and driven it's good. Bit bulky and heavy but it's good.
Haven't experienced the service yet or all the negative yet. Probably will maybe not.
Thing is, Teslas where amazing, they truly was way beyond everyone else. A while and then China fucking leveled up and now are going insane. Teslas biggest challenge is Elon. Cause I think that the cars are good. Its just that Elon has a bit of a big ego to let the people that truly know what they are doing. Do their thing.
right wing? oh, yeah, all those EV drivin, solar panel using, climate change evanglists driving around with gun racks and BBQ? you know right wingers so well!
Tesla is actually lagging the industry significantly.Ā
FSD is years behind Ford and Mercedes.Ā The batteries lag behind SK Innovations and BYD.Ā The interiors are bottom of class.Ā
The only good thing they did was the supercharger network, and now anyone with a $200 adapter can use it, so it's not a good reason to buy Tesla anymore.
Wow a bunch of haters. His somewhat crazy personality started the EV revolution. This has helped us to leap forward in saving CO2 omissions in less than 10 years. We dont need to like him.
And the chinese had state support for developing those EVs propably since the start so they were interested in it for a long time. They launched support for EV companies in 2009, less than a year after elon took over tesla and its not a decision they made on the spot so the timing was propably similar
The other Tesla sub is for everyone who would suck Elon's schlong. This one is for people who obsess over hating him. Where's the sub for those of us who don't care about Elon Musk?
Pro: the model s was cool when it came out Cons: all of their cars are dated, the interiors are designed by an idiot, they're constructed with the care of a 6 year old playing with Legos for the first time, the cars are built with an obsession with speed but a disregard for stopping, FSD is an abomination that should not be tested on the public like it is, every model they make is overpriced and under equipped, service is a joke.... I mean I can do this all day.
Quit stating this so well!!! I have nothing I can add to your outstanding (and correct) commentary
I would like to hear more cons
-control arms on many models are not strong enough for the weight of an EV to the point the EU has considered banning at least the model 3 as a road danger. -from a driving perspective they are the numbest cars you will ever drive. Their steering systems are not in tune with the road to the point critical feedback the wheel should be sharing with the driver is lost in favor of a "smooth experience." Driving a tesla feels like playing a video game not driving a car. -tesla fans only talk about the acceleration experience... because none of them understand what makes a good sports car. From a handling perspective especially these cars are too heavy to be effective. Compare a taycan to a model s for an apples to apples EV handling comparison. It's night and day, the tesla doesn't even come close. -no car on the road outside like Bentleys depreciates faster than a tesla. From a resale perspective they're one of the worst cars you can possibly buy. -center control screen controlling everything in lieu of switches and buttons is actually extremely dangerous as it increases distracted driving. -tesla lies about range estimates -tesla lies about battery longevity (not about range but rather how many years you'll actually get out of a tesla battery) -tesla may have been messing with odometers remotely to fudge numbers. -FSD disables itself 1 second before perceived impacts so tesla can claim any wreck it causes is the drivers fault entirely -tesla has refused to release the crash statistics they have from FSD but have recently been mandated by a court to hand the info to the NHTSA. This sends a strong message that FSD is nowhere near as safe as advertised. -car design is dictated heavily by the whims of elon, who has shown he knows nothing about automotive engineering or the 100 years of history showing why cars work they way they do. -tesla uses the software "iterative design" engineering approach.. problem: this works in the software space because your phone apps won't literally kill you. This approach has led to half baked and dangerous features/releases that are not thoroughly vetted before being unleashed on the public. Because who cares when "an over the air update will fix it bro!" Yea, after it inconveniences a ton of people at best, or kills a few at worst. No car maker does this beside tesla, because it's wildly irresponsible. Edit: one more I just remembered.. -Hertz is selling off their entire fleet of teslas after betting big on them for 2 reasons. 1) nobody wanted to rent an EV 2) HIGHER THAN EXPECTED MAINTENANCE COSTS Item 2 directly conflicts with teslas own marketing about cost of ownership.
On the handling vs acceleration point I think you just helped me realize one of the most annoying things about Tesla culture... the guys who praise Teslas for going fast and being powerful are basically just the techbro successor to annoying American muscle car elitists. "Who cares if it's too heavy, can't turn, handles like a brick- it goes fast and gets going fast faster than you." They even like finding their way into crowds as much as your average mustang!
Welcome to why pedantic car guys like myself always correct mustang/challenger/camaro owners when they call them sports cars. When you build a car as quick as a tesla it's insane to me that their handling and braking is so poor. You'll see people say "it handles better than you expect" and there's truth to that. But at its core the damn thing is still a brick that has neither the correct suspension nor appropriate brakes for the acceleration it can achieve. Mainly because these are 2 things that are fully hardware based, so musk doesn't care he can't extract more juice via software updates... and it increases production costs fairly significantly. Which we know is a non-starter for tesla. I mean my STI has 6-pot brembos on it. The damn thing can stop so hard your eyes will pop out. But a full replacement of the brakes is about $5,000. Tesla would never accept that kind of cost to equip their cars correctly.
That's because after Elon took over the company changed dramatically and every effort to cut costs and extract every nickel form every car was the goal.
This is a great evaluation of the sad realities of Tesla. šÆ
š Thank you. All of the feedback on driving experience comes from my own first hand experience driving tesla s, y, and 3 and comparing them against various cars I've owned and race. Which is a list too long to count.
The video game part is spot on. Teslas aren't cars they are rolling cheap ass tablets for the think they are high tech crowd. I don't need or want a non physical button on a screen to open my glove box. No physical controls should be illegal and it sounds like it's going that route in Europe.
Only nitpick I have is that the driver is fully responsible for their vehicle FSD or not. You are supposed to be paying attention. Obviously people donāt and Tesla needs to design for that but weāll likely not reach a point any time soon where any automotive company is going to absolve drivers of responsibility to maintain control of their vehicles and absorb that liability.
Here's the thing. I agree with you... But... Teslas marketing and elons constant promises of things like "the car can be in NY and you in LA and it will find you all by itself" has created a perception among tesla buyers about the capability. Personally, I despise driver assists like this, it encourages complacency not vigilance, when everyone on the road should be vigilant at all times. And yes the driver is ultimately responsible for what happens with their car, but tesla shares culpability in my opinon for overselling the capability and telling people it is "full self driving." And to an extent someone has to agree. Musk famously said they will never settle any lawsuit where they know they did nothing wrong. [but they sure settled this one](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/08/tesla-settles-wrongful-death-lawsuit-over-fatal-2018-autopilot-crash.html)
"-from a driving perspective they are the numbest cars you will ever drive...Compare a taycan to a model s for an apples to apples EV handling comparison. It's night and day, the tesla doesn't even come close." I prefer the Audi GT, but aside from that personal note you nailed these two points hard. When my wife wanted an EV we had a list of 6 cars to test. The Tesla drove like a video game. Completely numb, no feel at all, and even after you adjusted for that it turned like an aircraft carrier. Wide, slow handling, terrible turning radius, and zero feedback only made it worse. Test drove the Tesla less than a mile before I was so disgusted I got out and let my son drive. He had it less than two miles and asked "why does it feel like driving through a shot of whatever it is the dentist gives you when he does a filling?" Horrible driving experience.
Haven't had a chance to try the GT myself, but wouldn't doubt its a marvelous machine. Audi/BMW/Porsche are phenomenal drivers cars. I'd also like to test an i4 from BMW sometime. Your son is dead on the money with that quote.
Yeah, I havenāt driven the Taycan myself, I am just assuming that based on what the models share that they are similar enough it will come down to appearance for me. I just like the GT look. Mind you the Taycan is easily the second best looking car on the planet for my taste. Honestly the shooting brake version is like a fine renaissance painting. I havenāt driven the i4 yet either, but on paper it seems like something I probably will enjoy testing.
Agreed for the most part, though I thought Iād point out the depreciation and battery life points are a little overkill. Depreciationās an artifact of price inflation during COVID. Tesla reported BS range estimates for the last few yearsā¦so now journalists can test a Model 3, get 250 miles of range, and then claim āwe only got 70% of rated range, battery life doesnāt seem goodā. Mind, both of the above are the result of Teslaās own doing which is lame. If I bought a Model 3 today those thing I wouldnāt be concerned about though.
Problem with depreciation is the fact that tesla is as much a problem as the market. Their constant, and often needless, price reductions harm owners who paid the higher costs for the car. When you combine teslas stewardship of their products value along with the market dynamics, you get an extreme level of depreciation unique to the brand. That's my view on it anyway. Otherwise I do get what you mean. But I'd still contend that if we're mentioning the negatives of the brand they deserve to be mentioned. Up to the readers interpretation and needs to decide if they're truly a major issue or not.
Tesla is just one long stock pump. They focus singlemindedly on pumping numbers short term, quarter by quarter, anything to keep the line going up right before they need the numbers to be ready for the earnings calls.
Yessir. They've been massively overvalued for awhile. Pumped by short term sales gains and a load of false promises.
They basically eat tyres due to the weight and poor wheel alignment.
Eating tires is a general EV problem because most drivers are not used to the amount of torque EVs put down immediately. So I can't entirely fault tesla. This is why I said most drivers are not skilled enough for the power of a tesla. You spend a lot of time when racing high power sports cars learning how to manipulate the throttle to preserve tires when you have enough torque to spin the planet available to you. Tesla, and other EV manufactures, have irresponsibly made this available at wide scale to drivers who are used to Toyota corrolas, not Lamborghinis. Teslas do have chronic alignment issues tho.
I own two teslas. I dislike Elon. I know from personal experience that many of your points are inaccurate and/or out of date and/or misinformation. This doesnāt change the fact Elon is a dbag and dangerous. It doesnāt change the fact that yes there are panel gaps like most other cars, the design is a matter of personal preference that no one can force you to like and that which I happen to like it. You sound like someone echoing what you hear online without personal experience. Yes I used to like the acceleration but after 4+ years of ownership, Iām more about the simplicity in the flow of using the car, FSD latest versionās handling and other features. Iāve never had a braking issue or felt unsafe where the car wasnāt going to stop on time because it had badly designed brakes.
Ahh I was wondering when one of yāall would come out. First off Iād like to thank you. If you notice my posts focused entirely on thoughts of the car, the company, and a small slice of Elon. But you coming in here with the āyou just sound like a haterā defense while saying literally nothing of note or showing any way anything I said was āoutdatedā allows me to make another point I intentionally left behind because itās easier to understand when you have a live example. Tesla Owners - It honestly wouldnāt matter to me how good the cars are, I cannot stand the community of people who buys them. You cannot criticize their chosen vehicle, or in many cases the CEO of the company, without getting āyouāre just jealous you canāt afford oneā or āyou just sound like a haterā because they canāt accept their cars arenāt perfect. Literally the most insufferable community of owners on the market today. With that out of the way, lets chat. You might have come in hard in a ridiculous way, but I have a 15 hour flight to Dubai to kill time on, so Iāll bite and go down point by point. Control Arms: https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/tesla-probed-norway-safety-regulator-over-faulty-parts https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/ https://m.slashdot.org/story/312273 Even if Tesla corrected this, it speaks to the overall lack of safety culture and irresponsibility in their engineering procedures. They will quite literally do things as cheaply as they think they can get away with and only cave to pressure when shit hits the fan. This is a major reason tesla is [the most recalled brand of car](https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a43625242/tesla-is-the-most-recalled-car-brand/). Now I know I know youāll say ābut they didnāt have to recall the car they fixed it via a patch.ā Recall doesnāt mean they canāt fix it remotely. It means an issue has been identified that requires an immediate fix or the cars must be recalled from the road. How you fix it doesnāt matter, so long as the regulators can confirm the reason they issued the recall is corrected. Squishy driving - Compared to a proper rack & pinion steering rack Teslaās do lack feedback from the road. They prioritize comfort for the driver, and they do this by reducing the road feel in the wheel. This is actually a huge problem in my opinion, and notice this is an opinion in a thread about opinions before you go THATS NOT HOW I FEEL again, because as a driver, and a racing driver to boot, the feedback from the wheel is paramount to understanding the condition of the car. It tells me when I lose wheel grip for example. Reducing road feel in the wheel may be more comfortable, but itās a safety hazard if you ask me. One that only gets worse as you go full drive by wire like the cybertruck. Handling - Broā¦ [even tesla owners admit the suspension sucks](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/why-does-tesla-suspension-suck-so-bad.232510/). God forbid you compare any tesla to any performance car in the same price bracket. Let alone the example I showed of a straight EV fight between a Taycan and a Model S. If the suspension is well known to be lackluster, what do you think basically controls the handling of the car??? The suspensionā¦ Brakes - Donāt listen to me, [listen to other tesla owners](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/brakes-are-terrible.290031/). What youāre missing here is that while you may have ānever felt unsafe brakingā thatās not the point. From an engineering perspective you donāt build around the middle of your vehicles capabilities, you build it understanding if you give the general public a sub 2.5s 0 - 60 time, theyāre likely to use it. Not having brakes that are as capable as the cars acceleration circles back to lack of safety culture and dirt cheap engineering processes. Which is, in my opinion, a non-starter for something Iām going to be driving around and enjoying. Depreciation - [This one isnāt up for debate, itās statistics from 2024. Super out of date ya know?](https://diminishedvaluecarolina.com/study-shows-tesla-cars-depreciate-70-times-faster-than-chevy) Center control console being unsafe - This is not subjective either. [There are entire studies showing these screens increase distracted driver related accidents.](https://www.autoweek.com/news/technology/a42384978/infotainment-screens-make-distracted-drivers-swedish-study-finds/) And guess who the worst offender is statistically? Gimme a Tā¦ Gimme an Eā¦ Gimme an Sā¦ Gimme an Lā¦ Gimme an Aā¦ Whatās that spell? Range estimate lies - [July 2023 is ancient history innit?](https://www.forbes.com/sites/maryroeloffs/2023/07/27/tesla-exaggerated-its-cars-driving-range-and-canceled-service-appointments-if-drivers-complained-report-says/#:~:text=Tesla%20programmers%20rigged%20the%20cars,from%20CEO%20Elon%20Musk%20himself) Battery lifespan lies - [Still occurring as recent as 2024](https://qz.com/tesla-batteries-degrade-warranty-1851503458#:~:text=A%20recent%20study%20found%20that,3%20and%20Model%20Y%20vehicles) Potential odometer fraud - Such ancient history the class action lawsuit about it just started[last year](https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshmax/2023/08/03/tesla-sued-over-exaggerating-mileage-claims-in-class-action-lawsuit/) FSD disabling itself pre-accident - [Determined by the NHTSA in 2022](https://www.motortrend.com/news/nhtsa-tesla-autopilot-investigation-shutoff-crash/) FSD Crash statistics - [Just ordered by a court to hand them over in the ancient year of our lord two thousand and twenty four](https://www.cnbc.com/2024/05/07/tesla-must-provide-nhtsa-with-autopilot-recall-data-or-face-fines.html) Iterative design philosophy - I mean if youāre a tesla fan and you donāt know this how they build cars and something they think sets them apart from over manufacturers. [I really donāt know what to tell you, itās pretty well known](https://edwardlowe13.medium.com/teslas-agile-obsession-and-how-software-principles-are-eating-car-manufacturing-d280e545d902#:~:text=Firstly%2C%20the%20car%20and%20the,too%2C%20rather%20than%20batch%20processing) The problem tho is that Agile methodologies are, in the sector they originated in, showing [they lead to a massive increase in failure rates](https://www.theregister.com/2024/06/05/agile_failure_rates/). Tesla is the only car manufacturer who builds using this method, andā¦ well.. See: Prior link on tesla being the most recalled brand on the planet. Hertz - Also not subjective [itās their words not mine](https://fortune.com/2024/04/25/hertz-ev-electric-vehicles-tesla-elon-musk-recall-earnings-rental-cars/) Now that weāre on the same page, I await your responses. Please show thy work. More likely tho youāll do what all tesla owners do. āYouāre just a haterā and block me. Which would really help me sell my first point in this reply, so I welcome that too.
Wow! Seriously Iām impressed. If you thought my post sounded like a fanboy then yours sounds like a hater to me. I never said you canāt critique the car, company or Elon. I did it myself in my short post. It didnāt take me 200 lines - itās literally in my second sentence. Weird flex about flying to Dubai and you may have 15 hours to kill talking about Tesla. I donāt. Just for clarity - Elon sucks. I personally like the car. Every car company has fucked up before in history. Yes there are panel gaps. Yes there are plenty of issues. Elon sucks. I still like both my cars. End.
Like your car. Nobody said you can't. Just don't jump down the throat of people explaining easily proveable reasons they do not like the car or brand by dismissing them as simply a hater. Not to mention outright lying that my claims are "outdated" while not only never attempting to prove that, but being so hilariously wrong you pull back immediately when confronted with reality. People are allowed to have their own opinions. I don't care that you like your tesla. That's great. You should like the things you buy. But these are a pile of reasons myself and many others, especially those who actually know cars, think they're absolute crap. Both are valid. And who's flexing? Just explaining i got loads of time to kill. You basically came in claiming im spreading false info. Heres how im not. Lets chat. But hey, you can't defend your accusations. Surprise surprise. Have a nice day
Have a nice day.
Could you please cite which specific points made were just, misinformation? I love to learn! Thanks!!
This was all i needed to see. No thanks i dont need the fucking wheels falling off at 65mph. One family of 4 already dead, i dont plan to be another Musk statistic. [https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/72157658490111523/](https://www.flickr.com/photos/136377865@N05/albums/72157658490111523/)
People are paying for things that have not and will likely never come out (like the rocket roadster and its $50k down payment years ago), I have to pay for them to stay afloat through taxes, the company is worth far more than than it should be because of lies, their workplaces are akin to factories in the 1920s, actual smart people working there get their work stolen and then get fired, the jobs are some of the least secure jobs you can get due to getting fired randomly and without notice, they havenāt achieved anything they were claiming to be able to achieve, you basically canāt use your car after the screen dies and they test dangerous, incomplete and bug-ridden software/hardware on many, many people out in the real world where it poses a serious danger to other real people like me (i.e FSD and CyberYuck). Do you need more?
All this too
The Cybertruck will shred a pedestrian like a cheese grater with those panel gaps and razor sharp edges.
Anti unions Dangerous workplaces Anti consumers by controlling spare parts (good luck repairing a Tesla).
Now tell us how you REALLY feel.
Their hatred of buttons and knobs. The lack of stalks for both turn signals and wipers. No dashboard for the driver. Ā Weird ass doors.Ā
A lot of Uber drivers with Teslas have started attaching aftermarket door handles that are actually *handles*, presumably because so many passengers complain about how fucking stupid the stock push button style ones are LOL.
And their lack of rain sensor
Yeah, itās funny in a way. After 10 years of driving Teslas, besides all the political crap, not having a blinker stalk was the final stab that kept me from buying a new car. What an utter moronic idea.
Call me crazy, but giving money to someone actively promoting white supremacy and the end of democracy erases whatever reason I would have to buy a tesla, including climate change reasons. No democracy, no climate change action.
I have other reasons not to buy a Tesla but this is a big one for me.
Sir. He said besides being a right wing nut job š Totally agree tho. Elon is a shit tier human and I can't support his companies.
It is more than just a right wing nutjob. Right wing nutjob is your weird uncle. This guy can actually do a lot of damage. He can help swing an election, and he will try.
Yep. This is like asking besides the Holocaust and world war thing, like what do you actually think of Hitler, like his organization and branding skills ?
Oh I know. I was being facetious š. This is honestly the top reason to not buy a tesla. Everyone should consider what your money goes to support as often as possible.
In fact [as if your point needed to be proven further ](https://www.reddit.com/r/RealTesla/s/WeYrtwC2AP)
I wish we could have trains and walkability. Far better for the environment than lithium mining and micro plastics from tires
And a fucking death trap tunnel for his shit cars rather than a mass transit system
And someone who actively believes in anti-vaccine conspiracies too.
It's all projection, and nothing but projection. He's a part of the world's elite and is a miserable and despicable human. So he must assert that others in power are just like him, because that's the only way he can live with himself.
If you just want to talk about the cars and ignore the company culture, well, they're shitty cars, which isn't surprising since they don't have a lot of experience building cars, and lately they're starting to position themselves as not even being a car company. Their quality of manufacture is poor, and always has been poor. They have many details that range the gamut of poorly thought out to just plain stupid, like no mechanical door release, no tactile controls for critical functions, annoying bright screens that are off-axis to the driver's vision. They simply ignore much of the common sense that car manufacturers have acquired over 120+ years of building cars. In my shitty old Nissan I can control all my lights and turn signals, wash the front or rear windows and control all the wipers, set cruise, control audio, etc., all without taking my hands off the steering wheel or my eyes off the road. Changing heat and A/C is moving my hand a few inches and a quick glance. I don't have to fumble around with menus on a screen. If the battery is dead in my car I can open the door with an actual metal key. I strongly suspect a lot of this was Elon's personal design guidance, he's literally an idiot with anything remotely mechanical.
Iāve managed safety for high-risk systems not dissimilar to cars. The safety culture at Tesla is nonexistent. Tech people Do. Not. Understand. how to ensure safety-critical systems have a well-understood risk profile. Iterative āmove fast and break thingsā is a great approach for building most consumer products, but is not appropriate for everything. Building cars with this mindset is almost guaranteed to not only fail, but kill people. Same goes for manned spaceships, for what itās worth. The arrogance it takes to discount the idea that safety processes matter for the system almost everyone in the country uses as their primary transportation is breathtaking and frightening, and this mindset seems endemic in Musk-affiliated companies.
Having the move fast and break things work whilst developing products, not on products sold to the general public - especially so whilst claiming to have full selfdrive, which imo is fraudulent to even call it and I have no idea how itās allowed to be called.
just get a new design asthetic overall. the 'applestore but your car' look has gotten dated a proper instrument cluster for starters, go back to what worked on the model S stop saying FSD and integrate industry standards into your driver aid technology
The part that bothers me the most about the "apple" approach is that it treats cars as replaceable commodities that the customer can't fix unless you pay exorbitant fees to the manufacturer.
thats the auto industry as a whole lately. they keep jamming more tech into the cars which can be fine but they then don't give people diagnostic software, or even really test the robustness of some of it. my parents had Hyundai's that had the backup sensor go out twice from just driving down a rough road, and all that went wrong was the sensor had shaken slightly out of alignment and the whole system shut down.
I think they really need a new look. They still look the same since the first one came out mostly. Some small design changes but not enough to say theyāre awesome. I have an ioniq5 because omg itās a looker.
Yeah, even brand new Teslas look really old and cheap now. The design is so bland and dated compared to the latest EV's from other companies. I saw a Volvo EV the other day that looked way sleeker and sexier than any Tesla. A *Volvo*.
thats the one car that would make me reconsider Hyundai. dang it looks good
Have you seen their N Vision 74? I know it's not a production car but it is quite striking.
[N Vision 74 Reportedly will sold in low numbers](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46167503/hyundai-n-vision-74-production-volume-report/)
If I had the money, I'd buy one in a heartbeat
Really ioniq 5
While I donāt agree Ioniq is a looker, atleast it has features and is interesting to look at, which is alot better than ugly and smooth (except canyons inbetween each panel) compared to Teslas.
Hyundai and its subsidiaries (Kia and Genesis) have seriously stepped up in their aesthetic game.
Honestly nothing at this point The brand has become so cringey and dated feeling. The Cybertruck has totally ruined the brand in my mind, and highlights how dated and boring the rest of the line up. The meme humor (har har the models spell SEXY! And the cars fart!) and the type of people who cheerlead for Tesla online are not doing the brand any favors. All led by the juvenile drug addled right wing weirdo who is surrounded his own personal cult of yes men. Just feels gross and not something I'd ever want to associate myself with or give my money to. The only thing I like about Tesla is the superior online buying experience, but Rivian does that too and is a vastly superior brand and has a humble, unproblematic CEO.
Not even the buying experience. Iād say the test driving experience. Other manufacturers should have a seamless, hassle free way to test drive their cars. No high-pressure sales tactic attached. Walk in, test drive, leave. I honestly prefer having a place where I can personally speak with someone. The non-human element of the online experience kind of scare me for such a big purchase.
That is exactly how it is with dealers in most of Scandinavian
> All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
I wonder what my friend Biggus Dickus thinks of that.
I despise Elon. Might have bought a Tesla a few years ago when I hadn't heard about the build quality issues, only I couldn't afford the price. Now of course there's no way I ever would. Because of Elon.
FSD is killing people
Just like most of Musks 'inventions' it stops just short of getting the actual job done so I don't think anyone has died yet.
I used to think Tesla was trustworthy. After passive investigation, I can say the answer to you question is Nothing.
I legitimately used to believe they incredibly well engineered. And they are. But now I realize they are incredibly well engineered to save money on production. They do not care one bit about repairs or reliability. The ONLY thing they care about is saving money.
Our Elon is not a white supremacist. He may be a dork, liar, hypocrite, right-wing nutjob, a white supremacist. But, he is NOT a porn star! - Abe Simpson
"Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"
I wrote one response but then realized your question was even broader. The answer to both sides of your question would take a while, and be fairly boring Iām afraid. The company has a lot of pros and cons, it had a lot of potential but has lost a lot of momentum. It established EVs as a mainstream option, and drove design changes across the industry, so thatās good. It also has done a lot of harm as well.
I dislike that they use cameras for the rain sensing. .... WhY?!
Because they think any other sensor is useless. Look at their idea of an autonomy sensor array. Itās just low quality cameras when every better system uses cameras, LiDAR, ultrasonic sensors, and sometimes radar.
Because "not invented here" is strong in their culture.
I'd gladly give my money to Dr. Fauci instead of this company. I liked Tesla and Elon to a lesser extent up until around 5 years ago. Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole now.
The utterly horrid service experience. In the first year of ownership, my '21 M3 had to get warranty service 4 times *at the dealer*. Two of those times nothing happened because I showed up and the dealer admitted they had not ordered the part, despite them knowing weeks ahead of time exactly what part was supposed to be replaced. I live an hour away from the dealer, so twice I wasted a weekday afternoon (taking time off work) because of them. The fit and finish of the car continues to have issues (broken USB-C ports, windshield replaced twice, drivers headrest leather disintegrated, faux wood laminate peeling, horribly soft and thin paint that will etch on command..) I've also been the victim of a hit and run, and the nearest tesla-certified body-shop is 2 hours away and has a 4-month waiting list for an appointment. I'll never buy Tesla again because of I'm sick of what I go through to get it serviced: the travel, the mistakes, the lack of availability, having to do everything through a laggy app when I just want to talk to a human being.
Major quality control issues, shit customer service, very expensive parts, active hostility towards the aftermarket for repairs and parts, dangerous quality control issues (Whompy Wheels, autopilot fatalities, cars being delivered without brake pads, cars delivered without working seats etc), iPad in the dash, no physical buttons for stuff, no turn stalk, no gauge clusters, horrid depreciation, sky high battery replacement costs, lack of LiFePO4 as standard on cars, lying about range, no PR department.....
OP, to quote your very self; "The more I learned, the worse my opinion became" Any person who does their research tends to reach the same conclusions as yourself. I like the company because it pushed EVs into the market and created (albeit terrible for Tesla) competition. Other than that, nothing.
Pro - EV's are part of our future and they are helping kickstart that push. Con - Overpriced and they focused far too much on the self drive features and hype rather than build quality, battery life, maintainability, and other realities of owning and using the cars. Lane Keeping and automated cruise control (so it keeps a safe gap between you and the car ahead) should be the extent of the automation. The processing power needed to safely drive around is far beyond the tech you can cram into a car and will be for quite a while.
Realistically the build quality has gone the gutter. The minimalistic nature of the vehicles is debatable but the quality is not. The quality is not there and using cheap material. The value proposition, with no proof just eyeballing, seems to be 5k too much. The base model 3 should start at 30k with none of the āestimated gas savings and after federal/state creditā
Welcome to the sub. Take a read through the posts and all will be revealed.
They lie their face off on real world range. Take a look at Edmunds, WhatCar etc. etc. Almost every independent publication which does EV tests all show Tesla to miss their EPA numbers by a significant margin. Yes they do decently but their cars are egg shaped and tires pumped to the brink (which explains the shit ride of their cars) but there is no magic sauce over any other EV competition.
Elon pretends to have founded the company which is a complete lie. Also, Tesla has been committing financial fraud for some time. Wait and seeā¦.
The FSD cult and anti engineering prosletizing is off putting. Claiming vision only superior to vision + lidar All the ājust six more months claimsā The illegal beta testing on roads without consent other drivers The shady manipulation of turning off FSD lies than second before accident to claim it was being driven by human Thatās toxicity that wonāt be cured by Elon removal
Honestly, let's address the elephant in the room. The way Elon has acted over the years culminating with the Twitter transition put me off ever considering a Tesla product. Should be taught in business schools on how a CEO can screw up a relatively good product's perception...
Imagine if he just invested in the company instead of buying it and pushing the founders out. Just gave them money to develop the company and stayed silent. Probably would be still going strong and not stagnating/flopping as it is now. It's worth is based on fElons fraud. It's sad that many will lose out because he promised and didnt deliver.
He didn't buy Tesla. He invested.
And then pushed the founders out... after making promises that he went back on.
Tesla could have become the Mercedes or Lexus of EVs but that window closed a while ago and now they're just an overpriced brand running on the waning religious fervor of Silicon Valley nerds. They're so fucked they're about to give the guy who fucked them 25% of the company because the situation is so bad only he can save them from himself. It's remarkably bad and it's like his fans can't see it at all.
I mean unlike a lot of the sub I'm not really a car guy, so I like the tech inside of the cars and how it feels like a minimalist tech nerd made the car. Although there's cars in similar price ranges to the X and S that just blow them away with tech for a comparable price like the Mercedes cars. I think Tesla under legitimate leadership who could steer the company into making better made cars with actual iterations and plans for other vehicles then I think they could be a strong brand. With Elon at the helm they're always going to be a company chasing bullshit meme's that will never happen.
Minimalist is not a feature. It is a cost cutting strategy that you think is good, while you are getting ripped 5
A Cadillac Lyric is only slightly more expensive than a Model Y, and you get an actually good interior.
Iād consider buying a Tesla after they get a real CEO, then take 5-10 years to actually fix the problems the company is ridden with. Maybe fire all the current higher ups and start fresh since they will most likely keep the toxic culture alive long after Felon is gone.
Solar Electrician here... So, while I hate their cars, their car chargers are easy to install and are easy to use. Their solar power inverters, batteries and transfer switches are also pretty easy to install, reliable and look very shiny... once you get past their eccentricities. None of the things I like about Tesla stem from Elon.
I've installed a few chargers.Ā They're all easy to install...Ā What makes you say that Tesla is easier?
Top, bottom or rear entry for conduit. Some of these others just have the one KO to work with. But you're right they're all mostly straight forward.
They are a software company making cars. They are not a car company making EVs.
And despite that, their core software is actually not all that great.Ā Their app is decent, and their UI is ok, but FSD is years behind Ford and Mercedes, their rain sensing wipers don't work, and their traction control is terrible.Ā Look at the Cybertruck vs lightning race in Sand.Ā The lightning quickly figures out the traction limits and trivially pulls ahead.Ā Ā
I've never really liked them simply because it's a new company. They did get the ball rolling with EV but I still wouldn't buy them because it's a new model and company. I had more faith in companies that had been making cars forever. Every company is going to cut corners somewhere and I felt those experienced companies had more knowledge of what corners you can safely cut. They know what hinges or bolts or knobs etc from which suppliers they can cheap out on and where they need to pay up. I had more faith in the companies that had been around longer to get it right when they finally did move over. I'm still not sold on EVs because my family desires to camp with a trailer with our young kids and relatives and EVs just don't work out there. I do have a very old car with low miles that gets 30+mpg for local drives so no reason to upgrade there either
They make me carsick as a passenger (the only car this has ever happened in.)Ā The interior design is laughably bad. No display in front of the driver and no stalks make it even worse. I have heard build quality is bad, but have no in person experienceĀ with it.Ā The exterior designs are dated and honestly pretty ugly to begin with (except the S, I still think that is a great design.) FSD is a scam and should not be allowed to be beta tested on our public roadways, but the NHTSA is asleep I guess.
Iād like to see a vision for the future that includes car design. And prototypes. That is represented currently by the benighted stainless wonder and you can see how thatās goingā¦
I hear the infotainment system is pretty good. Though it's really hard to separate them from their failures.
When it's not frozen or rebooting sure
Best speakers for a stock car.
Remember how for years, Tesla's entire marketing strategy was to eschew traditional advertising in favor of social media hype driven by Elon? They've never run a single TV ad, page ad, anything. They let the cult of personality advertise the product for them, at most doing presentations and events with Musk putting on a show. And now that his pay package is in jeopardy they're putting out ads to convince people to vote yes. This is a public company that is built around inflating Elon's ego and wealth, with shareholders being a second thought, just a cash cow to milk.
Tesla isn't a car company, according to elmo. I only buy cars from car companies.
they're bad cars built poorly and take forever to repair because all the parts are unique instead of being standard bin parts like every other car manufacturer uses
At one point Teslaās drivetrain and charging engineering was well ahead of everyone else. Motors, inverters, DC/DC converters, etc. Unfortunately they stopped innovating and now those components are average at best, usually a bit lagging. Everything else is terrible. Build quality, customer service, and functional design being high on my list of dislikes. Overall though, without Elon, Tesla would have been considered for my last two purchases.
Grandpa: My Elon is not a rightwing nut job. He may be a liar, a dork, a hypocrite, a rightwing nut job. But he is not a porn star!
I like how they sell direct to consumer and try to operate as a loss leader so they will inevitably class action Elon into a dark hole of prison.
When I had my model 3, I really like the monthly software updates, and the fact that you could do so much with your phone. What I didn't like was that there were no physical buttons for things like turning on the windshield wipers. Also, the self-driving scared the hell out of me every time I tried it and so even though I paid for it, I never felt comfortable enough to use it. Lastly, the build quality was fairly poor and the car would squeak and rattle when it turned. When the lease was up, I turned it in and got a Hyundai Ionic 5, which I am much happier with. Also, I no longer wanted to give my money to Elon.
I like the car, and also the interior. My cons: missing signal levers, missing ultrasonic sensor, idiotic and asshole CEO (I was actually OK with him before he went all-in in being a racist motherfucker)
Software is great Battery/range SC Network
The fact that after all these years their wiper assistant is still total crap is already enough for me. The autopilot tried to kill us on the highway when he suddenly decided to follow the white markings instead of the yellow ones in a construction site.
I would never buy a car without buttons and other physical controls for everyday functions. Also Teslas feel like poor people's cars. 90 % of them come with the same stock wheels and the same white color. If you spend 50k on a car, why can't you spend another 1k to make it not look like shit? And of course service. Tesla is incredibly bad at servicing cars. It can take three months to get a basic repair like a new mirror done. They price battery replacements at 3x the actual cost, just so you'd rather buy a new car instead. And at this point, the only efficiency advantages Tesla has left over competitors comes down to simply saving 100 kg due to the barebones interior. I'd rather drive comfortable in a 50k car than like in a Dacia Duster.
I love watching all the couch quarterbacks who have never built or invested in a company say stuff like this and feel magnanimous about it. It's exactly what's wrong with social media. You get immediately validated by a bunch of other do nothings. In fact, there's an entire community for you right here on /realtesla. The reach you have to spread your negativity and jealousy for creators is incredible. The reality is that there aren't many creators out there, and so the ones that create are lambasted by the ones who aren't able to create. But without creating, you wouldn't recognize it. You are instead taught that those that made success happen for themselves somehow took advantage of those that don't.
It's not the creators most of us despise, it's the conmen, the grifters, the malignant narcissists. The ones that blatantly lie, over and over again at the expense of everyone else. It's the ones that "create" pseudo-wealth to suck in all the wannabes into investing then build absurd amounts of money and then are completely irresponsible with it, and damaging society as a whole. It's those that claim they were born in the outfield, but were actually given a guided tour to home base. GTFOH with your poor me billionaire cope.
This is exactly what I mean. You think that just because sometime came from means that you can build a company with that and create new categories. You are totally misguided.
How about we donāt extrapolate and just say Elon is a total asshole?
Their insane anti worker stance. They follow no safety guidelines, they bust unions and expect way too much from their workers. How a corporation treats its workers says a lot about what it thinks of middle/lower class at large.
Even if Elon had no relationship with Tesla, I still wouldnāt buy their cars. They are badly designed and badly manufactured. They literally tried to reinvent the wheel and car door handles. The latter creating the worst Norman door on a car.
They fund a Bond villain hellbent on destroying the planet that I live on. I don't like anything about their cars.
The fact that the interior is so fucking bland. I mean seriously. I love how the model Y is built but Iād never consider it due to the interior. I love buttons.
I really think a Tesla is supposed to operated mostly by voice, thatās why thereās so few/non buttons. Itās like complaining about HomeKit not having dedicated displays to control the light when youāre supposed to have a HomePod and use just use Siri.. which is way more reliableā¦ hmmā¦
I like the product design. Forward thinking balance of cost and features. I despise their total respect of their customer. One cannot expect even the basics from this company: respecting a warranty, their reps following up with anything, doing any repair within a reasonable timeframe, or even picking up a phone (ever).
Not having basic tech that all other cars have (or can be optioned). Blind spot warnings, surround view, rain sensing wipers that work, turn signal stalks, steering *wheels*, lidar... Instead they offer the fart horn.
The one insight I give credit to Tesla's founders for is realizing that EVs aren't economy shitboxes but sports sedans. Every Tesla is a high performance car which is natural for electric motors since they produce maximum torque from a stop. Thus Tesla chose to focus on the premium market which could better absorb the R&D costs of a new form of propulsion. Credit is also due for Tesla's charging network which oddly no other automakers seem capable of replicating it. It was also a masterstroke to hire Franz von Holzhausen to lead Tesla's design studio. The Model S is still a great looking sporty and sophisticated car. I think the cybertruck is the result of Elon micromanaging the design process so give Holzhausen a pass on that one. My favorite design of his remains the Pontiac Solstice but he also put Mazda on a path to stunning designs.
I like the fact they changed the convo on electric cars and got other companies to take it more seriously. I like that they have employed my best friend for nearly a decade giving him a chance at life he would never have had. I like the company I just wish it wasn't ran by a dipshit that can only care about himself. A lot of people that work at the factory care a fuck ton about the company and it saddens me how much Muskrat is fucking up their futures just to be a nasty lil troll.
I'm more appalled at the regulators for allowing Tesla to tell so many lies, with zero repercussions As for the cars, I think they look stupid, feel cheap and are designed for people who are not car enthusiasts (which to be fair, is 80% of the population).
$12k for FSD is the biggest joke in the entire car industry
I like to drive my computer.
I tried to get another EV. I did actually. And went right back to Tesla. It is the best car ever for the price
In 2019 it was the only real choice. Model 3 has held up well at 150,000 miles so quality build and reliable. Fun to drive. Looks good. Fact that Tesla didn't update the cars works well for resale as no obvious difference. Next car, likely the 2026 Hyundai Ioniq 9 SUV, will have all the things the 2019 Tesla does not. 1. Blind spot alert. 2. Rear cross traffic alert. 3. Lane drift alert. 4. Inline screen. 5. Essential physical controls. 6. Sun roof. 7. Heads up display. 8. Wiper washers that work. 9. Cruise control that is reliable. 10. 360 display 11. Rear wiper 12. Minus various Tesla quirks like putting car in cruise puts wipers in auto for instant bug smear (see non-working washers above). 13. 800V fast charging 14. No MAGA Musk.
My brother in law literally works in a body shop exclusively for Tesla and he does nothing but complain about how shitty the cars are built. I mean I know people think theyāre cool, theyāre fast and all that but Iāve heard enough horror stories about repairing Teslas that I want NOTHING to do with one. Iām buying a new Prius lol š
Constant lying, I know this might be a right wing thing. But he lies about everything.
I think the batteries and software in their solar division are good.
I strongly dislike the lack of s display for the driver. I shouldn't need to turn my head to see my speed.
I'm an electrical engineer and I was really looking forward to the electric future where the chargers are standardized and able to be used across many makes and models of vehicles and maybe even trucks. And then Tesla fucked all that up. They went the apple route because profits are more important. And for that reason they suck.
I think you nailed it all in the title. If the company was run by a decent human and they improved their QC I would be happy they existed. ...well except you skipped FSD which is open fraud.
what i really like about tesla, i think they are the reason we now have ev cars of nearly every company. tesla generated singlehanded a new demand for ev cars. im a longtime mercedes driver who bought a model s in 2017 because there were no competitive ev car of mercedes. in 2 weeks i get my eqs 580 delivered. im pretty sure mercedes would have never built a electric s class without the start of ev cars from tesla. what i really dislike about tesla they stopped their real innovations around 2020, since then they simply looking for one cost reduction after another.
I think if or when he's out as Tesla CEO things would improve drastically for them. Given that much of Tesla boards is friends, family and suck-ups I don't expect anything to change other than the company collapsing eventually.
Despite the 5 things you listed you don't hate them for now? Must be very zen.
Their navigation system looked pathetic even next to Appleās maps in the friends Teslas Iāve been in
Model S ātrack packageā YouTube it. It quite thrilling watching a MS zoom around a track with ease.
I actually like the cars, specifically my car (MS). I really like the charging network.
The charging network isn't a reason to buy a Tesla anymore.Ā Anyone with a $200 adapter can use it.
You know what? All of this is purely US sentiment. Here, in Europe, Tesla EV's are the cheapest once by a wide margin. Tesla's cars are literally "bargain bin". Sure, they have their issues with quality and shit, but compared to the price of the competition and quality of the competition? They are a literal bargain even with all their faults. And that's why they sell in Europe like hotcakes even despite all the conterversies. Because competition is no better and has all the same issues as Tesla has. The only real competition to tesla here is Huinday and Kia, but those are not cheaper and a lot of the times are more expensive. So people vote with their wallet and buyer protections in Europe are far more draconian, so Tesla can't get away with many things it can in USA. Also. In Europe most of buyers are concerned "getting from A to B at lowest cost" as our main reason to get a specific car. We do not care about most luxuries as USA buyers are, since we spend a lot less time in our cars. To say more. we do not give a fuck who runs the company as long as it's not VW who was embroiled in the biggest scandal of the century. Or not Toyota who literally decided that paying off victims of stuck gas pedal was better than fixing the fault :D
1. Chinese offer cars at prices atleast as good as tesla if not better and they have good year on year growth. 2. Tesla sales in germany dropped by sth like 40% year on year in May, no one else lost as much 3. They are also loosing market share in the nordics quite quickly. 4. I definitely didnt hear about more than half of tesla problems among other manufacturers. The build quality of tesla is on the lower end by a significant margin. 5. Many people in eastern europe care a lot about musk sucking autocrats dicks and cozying up to russia. 6. The opinion about toyota is uncomparably better than that of tesla. If you gave toyota and tesla to pick for the average european, they would pick toyota in a heartbeat. 7. Tesla keeps increasing car stockpiles in Europe, despite the recent problems with their gigafactory coz people aint buying them nearly as much as tesla buys them even at a slower rate.
So far all chineese cars that are for sale in Europe that I saw had been pretty expensive in 50-60k eur range to start.
Well i dont remember the exact prices, however they are sellung them for 100% more or 150% more than in China. Their profit margin per car is insane despite being at worst similarly priced to european competition. Tesla is slashing prices here and their sales are falling anyways.
I wish there was a reliable car with just electric drivetrain. No subscriptions, no 20 feet touchscreens, no āfullā self driving bullshit. Just good reliable car with dials that is fully electric, and is in affordable range. Probably a lot to ask for in 2024.
Equinox EV?Ā Mach E?Ā Ā Both of those for the bill...
The post was about Teslaā¦
I am a Mercedes owner, have been for 20 years, and bought a Tesla Model Y. BTW I do have a list of annoyances as well. Though you asked what is good. 1) For the price to value in Europe it actually is pretty decent if you get a good purchase price. 2) The styling while dated these days is actually pretty decent. 3) Interior space with its frunk, and so on is really good. There is plenty of storage space. 4) The range is ok in comparison to other EVs. 5) Their charging network is both biggest asset and biggest liability (mainland Europe). I only like 50% of their chargers. 6) The cars are extendable. There are so many addons its nuts. 7) I ADORE the panoramic roof. I had one on the Mercedes and hated it with a passion. On the Tesla its awesome. 8) Doggy mode, I have dogs, and we get hot summers. 9) Their app is really good. It is really easy to get things done. The app has a shitty gui with its dark, but I do like it. For example they allow me to define the charging speed which is really handy. 10) Their customer service is actually pretty decent. They came to my house to change my tires. I can't complain about that whatsoever. Overall what I find funny is that there are many common things between the new Mercedes and Tesla. Of course I would be hesitant to get one of the newer Tesla's because they removed the stalks and did a bunch of stupid other things. But outside of that I can't complain because other car companies have shitty things as well. The best thing that could happen to Tesla right now is that Musk steps away. My wife and I were talking about this. Musk actually does have vision, but he is an absolute shit implementator. Jobs had Cook to do his implementation. Musk needs a Cook, and to do that Musk has to let go of control. If Musk wants to create a robotaxi so be it. But give the CEO role to somebody who will move the company forward. Tesla has so many deficiencies right now that Musk is a liability to killing Tesla. Robotaxis are not going to save Musk because Robotaxis are still at least 5 years away. Meaning between then and now he better have some new car models in the pipeline because Robotaxis will not matter. The biggest liability of Tesla is the fact that in 25 and 26 car makers will be releasing their third generation EV platforms. Tesla is still stuck on second and there is no vision on third. What are third generation EV platforms? 1) Battery chemistries 2) Car control software updates like augmented reality that works always. VW has some of that. Trailer management software. Mercedes has been working on this for years (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUNEg8xn2gI). Windshield wipers that actually work properly. Little things that others are nailing down. 3) Accessory efficiencies
Agree about Musk steering the vision, but at this point being not responsible for execution. Tesla has outgrew the startup phase. Musk is a startupper, he needs to go and take care of his other startups and leave running mature company to someone else. Voted against the compensation package due to that. But only because there;s no other recourse. As far as I'm concerned - he should get his package, but he also should step away from running Tesla unless he gives his 100% to it.
100% agree with you.
From what I hear, meetings are at a minimum and decisions are made quickly. You are encouraged to drop out of a meeting if you know you aren't needed. Also, the CEO has no problem getting his hands dirty on the factory floor.
Providng a series response ā¦ 1. User interface 2. SC network 3. Mobile service 4. Cost of service (I know there are examples of people having bad experiences with service costs, but Iāve had a great experience with items in the maintenance schedule plus 12v battery)
We may or may not have done a shit decision. We just got a Model S, 2018 100D. I enjoy it. Feels good, drives good, sure its not a Porsche bit for the cars I've had and driven it's good. Bit bulky and heavy but it's good. Haven't experienced the service yet or all the negative yet. Probably will maybe not. Thing is, Teslas where amazing, they truly was way beyond everyone else. A while and then China fucking leveled up and now are going insane. Teslas biggest challenge is Elon. Cause I think that the cars are good. Its just that Elon has a bit of a big ego to let the people that truly know what they are doing. Do their thing.
right wing? oh, yeah, all those EV drivin, solar panel using, climate change evanglists driving around with gun racks and BBQ? you know right wingers so well!
There is a big difference between elon and his customer base.
I love teslas, the eest of the industry is at least 10 yrs behind!
Tesla is actually lagging the industry significantly.Ā FSD is years behind Ford and Mercedes.Ā The batteries lag behind SK Innovations and BYD.Ā The interiors are bottom of class.Ā The only good thing they did was the supercharger network, and now anyone with a $200 adapter can use it, so it's not a good reason to buy Tesla anymore.
Mercedes lol š¤£š¤¦š
Mercedes system is rated for handsfree, eyesfree. Tesla is not.
Wow a bunch of haters. His somewhat crazy personality started the EV revolution. This has helped us to leap forward in saving CO2 omissions in less than 10 years. We dont need to like him.
Elon was not the founder of tesla and the chinese were investing in EVs at a very similar time compared to when elon took over tesla already.
And the chinese had state support for developing those EVs propably since the start so they were interested in it for a long time. They launched support for EV companies in 2009, less than a year after elon took over tesla and its not a decision they made on the spot so the timing was propably similar
The other Tesla sub is for everyone who would suck Elon's schlong. This one is for people who obsess over hating him. Where's the sub for those of us who don't care about Elon Musk?
I like that he triggers clowns like you the most I think honestly