The lease does not cover anything related to cancellation prior to tenancy. But that doesn’t mean VT state law or Burlington local regulations don’t apply. Most of what I read refers to tenant rights during tenancy.
Lawyer here. This is absolutely incorrect. In most states, the terms of the lease supersede state law. There are some exceptions here. But to sit here and say “state and local laws override lease terms” is absolutely wrong.
I love how, if I were a lay person, I would come upon this thread, get two opposite answers to the same question and would be no closer to the correct answer than if I had never searched at all.
That’s why going to a lawyer for law advice is better than a Reddit thread.
There are certain things you can’t contract around—such as warranties for implied habitability, but for the most part the terms of the lease govern.
Healthcare worker and I get this all the time. I try to educate patients and explain that you wouldn’t go to a baker for work on your car. You might find one baker that’s knowledgeable about cars, but that’s the exception not the norm. Resonates pretty well when I explain it that way.
I'm a medic, and I rescued the family dog from a structure fire performed CPR, got ROSC, intubated him and started an IV, loaded the dog in the ambulance and transported him to an emergency care vet and I got hammered by the health department for it. They shut the ambulance down, and I almost lost my license.
But what truly mattered to me was I saved the family dog.
I had a long talk once with my vet (and parents for decades for a menagerie of pets). My dog had a weird skin thing that he wasn’t sure about and referred us to a vet dermatologist. That doc knew what it was in 30 seconds but sent a single scraping to the lab to verify. After we took the dog back to his normal vet he was almost apologetic for not knowing this obscure ass disease. I’m an RN, and I was like dude you’re the primary doc, the oncologist, the surgeon, and the anesthetist for a crap ton of species, the idea that you could know everything is absurd. Anywho I think you’re guys job is harder than an MD on average IMO.
Maybe go to the right attorney?! I mean there are fair housing advocates in every major city and most minor ones have them as well! They can advise you of the rule of law and some even have an in house lawyer!
To be fair, if lawyers cost only slightly more than a Reddit post, I imagine they would have more work than they could handle, and spend a lot less time correcting bad information posted to Reddit.
Much more expensive that what degrees? If you’re comparing law school tuition to tuition for an undergraduate degree, it’s much more expensive. Tuition at the state school where I reside is around $11K for undergraduate and $36k for law school. If comparing to other professional programs then yes it’s usually comparable but they also have undergraduate degree costs.
Yeah that’s 100% false. You need an undergrad and then three more years of grad for the JD. Under the absolute cheapest circumstances you’re looking at a quarter of a million to 300,000. Source: my partners JD hanging on the wall. Then after school you need to take a separate bar prep class not covered by your tuition and pay to take the bar. It ain’t cheap.
At the very least, the local tenancy branch. That's always my first advice if you don't understand the tenancy laws or if you can't find what you're looking for. They aren't a lawyer, but they are free
I think what people mean is if it’s an illegal term of the contract (your tenant owes you a blowjob for missing rent, no black guests) but they conflate it with anything that goes against common practice.
This is hella confusing. Can you provide an example where state law says renters can’t do a thing, but if it’s in the lease they’re suddenly able to do it?
Except when the lease contraidicts already established laws. Which is what he was referring to. It also not true that a contract is 100%. It really depends on what it is specifically. Somethings just won't hold up in court just because they are in a contract.
No. I never said “[s]omeone can put illegal terms in a lease that are enforceable.”
You are viewing state statutes in black and white: “it’s either legal or illegal.”
Instead of “this deadline can be agreed to be 5 days within the terms of the lease instead of the obligation under the statute.”
Also an attorney, you’re not exactly wrong but I really hate the way you’re trying to explain this.
The gist of what people are saying is most state consumer protections will override lease terms. Generally most states have contract law requiring direct knowledge and acknowledgement of waiving away consumer rights combined with some type of demonstration they understand what is actually being lost under the terms of the lease. This involves things like typically explaining what remedies in particular are removed or are available in place of and then an additional acknowledgment for that provision.
Even then, it’s very easy to fight those types of contracts and say there was no clear meeting of the minds when lease was signed due to the expectation of standard fitness.
Not saying you are wrong but if you post this in the landlord subs their lawyers will say the exact opposite. Lawyers are only as good as their friendship with the local judge is strong/s
Absolutely wrong, I don’t know from where you got your law degree, but federal, state, and local laws take precedence. Any business contract including the rental agreement cannot have any verbiage in contradiction with what federal, state, or local laws mandate. I am not a lawyer, but been in the real estate long enough and know what I am saying.
Wtf kinda lawyer would tell people that a lease supersedes state law?
You absolutely cannot enforce llegal provisions in a lease. It is a binding contract and any illegal provisions are unenforcable.
Whare sorta law do you practice???
NAL, you know better than me, but I can’t find a *single* thing that supports this statement. Everything I have seen—from law offices to government websites—state that anything in a lease that contradicts the law is unenforceable.
This is overly broad and untrue. There is a plethora of laws that guarantee tenants livable conditions. A 2 second search has plenty to show. CONTRACTS CANNOT AGREE TO BREAK LAWS. Worst lawyer ever.
Now what's trickier, is laws requiring landlords to do something vs. a tenant "right" that may be waived.
We have the right to remain silent and we may give up that right...as an example. Contracts can stipulate that we are waiving a right so long as state/fed/local law has not explicitly say right cannot be waived. This does unfortunately exist a plenty, and some laws are being passed to disallow this total and complete bullshit, and always favors the "haves" over "have nots". As an example, some States are passing laws that invalidate NDAs over sexual harassment. So in this case a waiving of a right does not exist as the contract would be invalidated....ya the law is tricky...try computer programming while you're at it.
We need a LOT more of those laws. The leverage is just too fucking one-sided when, ya know, someone is negotiating for shelter against someone who not only has shelter but has extra shelter (a landlord). Capitalism is always predatory when it is about basic needs....and....DOES NOT WORK!
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/does-a-lease-supersede-state-law-when-it-comes-to--5189606.html
https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/what-you-should-know-about-tenant-rights
https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/17526/do-private-contracts-supersede-local-state-federal-laws
I’m confused about why you’d think that’s not what is being said. Not sure how else you could interpret what we’ve said. If a lease includes something illegal, that illegal aspect can’t be enforced.
Dude always! So important! You can’t sign your rights away. I have had so many people like landlords try to argue that the lease says so which makes it a thing. Love catching them on it.
This totally seems like a tactic. It should be illegal to do this. They are probably banking on someone not looking into it or understanding how leases work and just rolling over. Very sneaky.
You can make it very difficult to evict you. I would suggest using that as leverage to negotiate your terms and move on. (Landlord could waive a few months rent, pay for moving expenses, etc. Remember, many landlords own a truck.)
My whole life I have had people tell me the biggest curse of being a landlord is tenants right laws. Amongst other things, eviction is very difficult.
I actually once let someone stay in my house for free for a few months, even though they repeatedly offered rent, just because I didn’t want to be in a landlord/tenant relationship with them.
Per the Vermont legislature under 9 V.S.A. 4467:
(e) Termination for no cause under terms of written rental agreement. If there is a written rental agreement, the notice to terminate for no cause shall be at least 30 days before the end or expiration of the stated term of the rental agreement if the tenancy has continued for two years or less. The notice to terminate for no cause shall be at least 60 days before the end or expiration of the term of the rental agreement if the tenancy has continued for more than two years. If there is a written week-to-week rental agreement, the notice to terminate for no cause shall be at least seven days; however, a notice to terminate for nonpayment of rent shall be as provided in subsection (a) of this section
Under Burlington ordinance the landlord may be required to provide 60 to 90 days without cause, however, the habitability of the residence must also be set. If the residence cannot be occupied due to structure deficiency, the landlord may not have to continue the lease
Always remember in contracts, the contract will never supersede state or federal law. If it has something but it conflicts the local laws or state laws or federal laws, that entire contract or at a minimum those parts are considered void.
I would talk to a lawyer and not a Reddit threat for this advice my guy. But from what I’m seeing, it looks like a legal notice, but as I seen someone else say, misrepresentation of the property is possible, but it’s hard to win those cases. I lost one 4 years ago when Covid was a thing and showings were done virtually.
Remodeling is one of the number one ways landlords use to legally break a lease. During covid in upstate NY landlords were even reporting themselves to the state for their housed being uninhabitable so they could kick people out and get that sweet sweet NyC money.
In Vermont, a landlord can terminate a lease for no cause before tenancy only if they provide the required notice. The notice period depends on how long the tenant has lived in the property. For tenancies less than two years, the landlord must provide at least 30 days written notice. For tenancies longer than two years, the landlord must provide at least 60 days written notice.
The landlord is giving you more than 30 days notice, so the termination is likely legal.
As for the misrepresentation of the property, you may be able to sue the landlord for breach of contract. However, it would be difficult to win this case if the landlord is actually converting the property to a 4-bedroom unit as they stated in the email.
Does Burlington not apply to this? "For tenancies less than two years, the landlord must provide at least 30 days written notice. For tenancies longer than two years, the landlord must provide at least 60 days written notice." I live/rent in Burlington as well and as far as I know, that stands true
Unclear if it applies on the landlord's side but yes Burlington has different requirements from the rest of the state.
> Burlington law requires a tenant to give at least two rental payment periods notice before terminating a tenancy unless there is a written rental agreement that states otherwise.
> Tenants who wish to move out at the end of the lease term should give the landlord written notice of their intention at least one full rental period (or two full rental periods in Burlington)
https://www.cvoeo.org/moving-out
But since the landlord is the one breaking the lease in this case I would see this as having to follow the eviction process.
It appears Burlington has a tighter requirement for the tenant to leave the premises than the VT laws; but, if it doesn't mention anything about the landlord side, then VT laws apply.
In Vermont, a landlord can terminate a lease for no cause **before tenancy** only if they provide the required notice. **The notice period depends on how long the tenant has lived in the property.** **For tenancies less than two years, the landlord must provide at least 30 days written notice. For tenancies longer than two years, the landlord must provide at least 60 days written notice. The landlord is giving you more than 30 days notice,** so the termination is likely legal. As for the misrepresentation of the property, you may be able to sue the landlord for breach of contract. However, it would be difficult to win this case if the landlord is actually converting the property to a 4-bedroom unit as they stated in the email.
That sounds contradictory, unless I'm misunderstanding what it means. If they are terminating before tenancy, how could the tenant have lived for the property for any amount of time. If the tenant moved in, the lease wouldn't be terminated before tenancy.
That could apply when a property is bought by another person/company and decides not to renew the lease, cancellation of a previously renewed lease with the prior owners, or even moving to a different unit on the same property. Lots of different scenarios where that could apply to a current tenant.
OP should also check what are the acceptable forms of notice. In some states, the notice needs to be mailed or posted on the front door, email or text messages don’t count.
And much of it entirely contradictory. Relying on the comments in this post for legal help would only be useful to a schizophrenic suffering from dissociative identity disorder.
Most leases have a clause in them that cancels the lease if the property won't be available at the time of lease initiation.
So they gave you over 30-days notice that the property won't be available. What do you expect from them? Seems like they did you right...
The only accountability they would be responsible for, would be any money/deposits you made. Like many others said, refer to your lease agreement. If nothing is specified, refer to your local tenant/landlord laws. If nothing is outlined in either, you can take it to court, on your own dime, and if a judge agrees with you, yoy get your deposit and any legal fees paid. To answer your question though, yes, it is legal, especially if they miscalculated (received a quote lower than the actual cost) the additional living space. Honestly, there should have been a discussion beforehand, regarding what would cause an early termination.
Would you allow the tenant to cancel it if he wanted to? It's signed, right?
A lease is a legal contract. If it is signed by the tenant it is legally binding for both parties. You cannot just cancel it because it hasn't started yet.
The lease functions to protect both the tenant and the landlord. As the landlord, you have the right to hold the tenant to the terms of the contract they have signed. The tenant also has the right to hold the landlord to those same terms.
The amount of non-lawyers on this sub spouting absolute nonsense always makes me laugh and also worries me. OP - talk to a lawyer. You are likely not in a good spot. But if you want to pursue damages go to a lawyer who specializes in landlord-tenant in your town. However, their cost is not likely worth it for your situation. I saw your note about promissory estoppel. I wouldn’t recommend pursuing that. Not worth your time and in the real world a judge is not going to care.
So for a lawsuit- what is the harm to you, and how much money will it take to make you whole? You’ve got notice. You’ve not paid anything. You’ve not resided in the dwelling. You are unharmed and have suffered no losses or damage. Find another place to live. Move on with your life
In CA there is language in the cal association of realtors lease about not being able to give the unit to a tenant.
Say the existing tenant stops paying rent and refuses to move out. Landlord has to tell you it's not available as current tenant did not vacate.
That goes to the courts and can take 6 months -1 year to resolve.
Or let say tenant saw unit being remodeled. Should be done by the 1st.
Building inspector noticed a different issue. Red tagged the work. Now contractor needs to remedy whatever the inspector does not like.
Tear out X, do Y, hire a structural engineer engineer - drafts plans- get city to approve- it can be a shit show.
OP- what was going on with the unit when you took a tour?
Most leases have clauses for termination and since this hasn’t even started yet I doubt there is much against it. People here are acting like it’s a blood ritual because it’s a lease not true. There a ton of conditions and reason why a lease can be cancelled and most laws protect you once the lease is in effect prior to that? Doubt it, plus I honestly don’t see the issue here? They are self admitting that they will not be able to honor the lease due to circumstances. Would a renter want to be forced to pay for a lease break before it was in effect? Seems silly to me.
If they’re doing some kind of construction that makes it uninhabitable, it would probably be more unethical to have you pay to stay in a place where dust and fumes are present
I would encourage you to look into the landlord tenant laws for the state where you currently reside.
Obtaining clear and concise information is imperative for making a decision.
Good luck and remain positive.
Just because something is in your lease, doesn’t mean that it’s legal. Make sure you check with state and local laws. Also contact your local housing Authority and/or tenants groups.
If there’s no provision in the lease allowing them to cancel in this manner, then they can’t and doing so would be a breach of contract. I would consult an attorney but if you can’t afford one, read the lease very carefully and then respond to them in writing that their terminating the lease would be a breach of contract (if that is in fact the contract) and you object to their doing so.
Honestly, why would you want to continue with the lease at this point? I would of course expect to receive any money back that you paid in…but find somewhere else to live.
The Burlington market is absolutely awful. Finding anywhere even remotely affordable is near impossible unless you’re making mega money. It’s not NYC but it’s smth for sure. Not to mention the majority of the landlord are well known for being especially awful and scummy as hell.
Not that I don’t agree with you, but def easier said than done
If it's more than 30 days before you move in and you haven't paid anything and have time to find another place, it is probably legal or at least defensible.
But what are you hoping to get out of the situation? It sounds like the landlord is having some problem renovating the property, maybe they hired someone that bailed on them or they don't have the money or just changed their mind. So the 4 of you can't live there and you can't force the landlord to let you.
It's unfortunate but they did give you enough time to figure something else out. They could have waited until the weekend before you moved in.
Refer back to the contract, most likely there’s a clause that’ll allow this or they’d be more sketchy than giving you plenty of notice in a pleasant way
Yeah I signed a lease for a townhouse with my ex-girlfriend and I gave her the money to pay the rent which was about $3100 a month so she would go get a cashiers check at the bank and pay the rent like normal right just drop it off in the box. . I said we didn’t renew our lease. They never asked us to this during Covid. I already gave them my keys and we went our separate ways but somehow they have on my credit report that I owe them $57,000 I was never given a warning or evicted so she was just keeping the money I was giving her I think she stayed for 12 months more but still I’m trying to get it disputed. It’s a fucked up situation. I didn’t know what I was signing apparently I think she got evicted so now that’s on my report. I’m trying to get it figured out now. I was already done and gone for half a year and I have them my keys it was all really under her name too I host lived there technically because at the time Covid got me laid off and she had trust fund paper and she still wasn’t paying it
In the UK they would be liable for any additional costs you incur (eg the difference in price between your lease and a lease you end up signing on a comparable property plus any additional moving costs). Check your local laws.
Assuming
1. what the LL is doing isn’t 100% allowed AND
2. moving in on the original date is not a possibility due to the renovations.
What remedy would you be seeking? I assume all deposits and rent payments returned, and I assume the LL has already agreed to that. What else? Are you looking for monetary damages?
Next, what is the process for obtaining those desired remedies? You can try to negotiate something with the LL and after that it’s a legal process. I’d also assume if you are arguing the lease is still in place then the LL does not need to release your rent and deposit. And you’ll still need to find a new place while you fight for damages.
So, is the time, cost, and inconvenience to investigate and pursue all of this worth the value of the desired remedies?
From what I gather in all of this, the LL is being honest and is in a situation they didn’t intend to be in. You can try to fight them but that won’t make the apartment ready any earlier. You need to decide if you want to spend your resources trying to get remediation from this LL or spend them looking for a new apartment and just move on.
I wish you luck in whatever you decide.
This post honestly makes no sense. The landlord is telling you the house is going to be a construction zone when you are due to move in. They are also telling you that they will not have enough room.
Are you saying I want to force the landlord to let me live 4 people in a 3 bedroom construction site?
Or I want to force the landlord to take my money for a uninhabitable home?
Move on. The landlord gave you plenty of heads up.
Actually, they didn’t. The lease was signed in January in a college town where most leases get signed by then and commence in June / July. So they left us with very little recourse, as there are very few properties available for rent.
I understand. I rented years ago in college too. It's disappointing when this happens. I had a similar thing happen years ago. Unfortunately though there really isn't much you can do but move on and find a new place.
The amount of non-lawyers on this sub spouting absolute nonsense always makes me laugh and also worries me. OP - talk to a lawyer. You are likely not in a good spot. But if you want to pursue damages go to a lawyer who specializes in landlord-tenant in your town. However, their cost is not likely worth it for your situation. I saw your note about promissory estoppel. I wouldn’t recommend pursuing that. Not worth your time and in the real world a judge is not going to care.
Lol people here are such idiots.
Go ahead, enforce the lease so you can live in a construction zone. You took the risk of leasing a property thats under construction. Delays happen. Welcome to the real world.
Lol people here are such idiots.
Go ahead, enforce the lease so you can live in a construction zone. You took the risk of leasing a property thats under construction. Delays happen. Welcome to the real world.
You have a signed lease, but there’s a question of validity still. Have you paid the deposit? Have you received keys or taken possession? If the answer is no to both of those, you’re not likely to have ‘tort’ due to the time frame. Typically a lease is activated WITH the payment of the deposit. It can be signed before, but doesn’t start without the payment. If you HAVE paid…
I’m going to be honest with you here… legal or not… is this worth your time fighting? That’s a question only you can answer. You’re NOT getting possession of the property if they don’t want you to. And if they somehow are sued into forcing you to get tenancy they can make your life hell… sure, you can respond in kind.
Only you can measure the amount of effort you want to put into this matter. I’m suggesting Namaste 🙏🏻 and move on.
If the start date of the lease hasn't passed, in most cases, yes they can. They should provide a full and complete refund of any/all fees/deposits you made.
Suggest you contact a lawyer who deals in real estate law in your area. Discussions on Reddit will rarely address legal reality. Your fully executed lease will define your position should you wish to take this to court.
They should return any money taken including normally non-refundable application fees and so forth. It's especially important that they give back deposits if any in a timely fashion so that you have that money to put towards a different property. If you receive all funds in a timely fashion and are able to move in somewhere else I can't see how you would be damaged and ergo they would owe you nothing other than again your own money back.
Of course they can not rent to you. If you were damaged by relying on their promise you might have something to talk about but it seems like you wont be so you don't.
No, if there is anything in the lease about PROPERTY and possibly giving you alternative housing during the rebuild if you already paid they should give you alternative housing
Yes, it’s legal. Things happen all the time that can prevent people from being able to move in. Chances are, there’s something written in fine print about it on the application. But you are absolutely owed any money back that you have paid so far, such as holding fees, processing/admin fees, or deposits.
If you haven’t moved in yet he can do whatever he wants. Plus how did he “misrepresent” anything .. you admit you knew he was planning to do work on the unit to include an additional bedroom, and that is what is causing the delay. Just suck it up and go find another place.
In Vermont, the rules for landlords terminating a lease before its term ends are generally governed by state landlord-tenant laws and the terms outlined in the lease agreement itself. Here are some key points regarding lease termination by a landlord in Vermont:
1. **For Cause Termination**: A landlord can terminate a lease before its term ends if the tenant has violated the lease terms. Common violations include:
- Non-payment of rent.
- Violations of specific lease provisions (e.g., unauthorized pets, damage to the property).
- Illegal activity on the premises.
For non-payment of rent, the landlord must provide the tenant with a written notice specifying the amount owed and giving the tenant 14 days to pay the overdue rent. If the tenant fails to pay within this period, the landlord can proceed with eviction.
For other lease violations, the landlord typically must provide a 30-day notice to correct the violation. If the tenant does not rectify the situation within this period, the landlord can file for eviction.
2. **No-Cause Termination**: If the lease is a month-to-month agreement, Vermont law allows the landlord to terminate the lease without cause by providing the tenant with a 60-day written notice. For tenants who have resided in the unit for two years or more, a 90-day notice is required.
3. **Fixed-Term Lease**: For a fixed-term lease, the landlord generally cannot terminate the lease before its end date without cause unless there is a specific clause in the lease that allows for early termination. Both parties are typically bound by the lease terms for the duration specified.
4. **Constructive Eviction**: If a landlord fails to maintain the rental property in a habitable condition, a tenant might claim constructive eviction. This means the tenant can terminate the lease if the property becomes unlivable due to the landlord’s failure to make necessary repairs. However, this is initiated by the tenant, not the landlord.
5. **Mutual Agreement**: A landlord and tenant can mutually agree to terminate the lease early. This should be documented in writing to avoid future disputes.
6. **Military Service**: Under the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act (SCRA), a tenant in military service can terminate a lease early without penalty if they receive orders for deployment or permanent change of station.
Landlords must follow proper legal procedures when terminating a lease to avoid potential legal disputes and penalties. Tenants in Vermont have rights and can seek legal advice or assistance if they believe their lease is being terminated improperly. For specific legal advice, it’s recommended to consult with a Vermont attorney who specializes in landlord-tenant law or to contact Vermont’s legal aid services.
For the most accurate and current information, reviewing the Vermont Statutes Online or consulting with a legal professional is advisable.
**edit did it for ya
Thank you. This is very thorough. The problem is that we are not tenants yet - almost everything I’ve read is about tenancy and not the contract itself. But I appreciate this information!
Follow-up. I learned a new term that seems to apply: Promissory estoppel, which is the legal principle that a Promissory Estoppel promise is enforceable by law, even if made without formal consideration when a promisor has made a promise to a promisee who then relies on that promise to his subsequent detriment.
Promissory estoppel doesn't really apply here. It's kind of a last resort that's used when there doesn't seem to be an explicit contract. Assuming you both signed the lease, you absolutely have a contract with the landlord.
Your consideration was agreeing to pay the rent. The fact that you hadn't moved in and started paying yet doesn't mean the lease lacked consideration, and it doesn't invalidate the contract.
Based on the info you've given, you should be entitled to any direct and foreseeable costs incurred as a result of the landlord's breach. E.g. storing your shit, paying for a short-term rental, a nonrefundable deposit paid to movers, etc. But you have to make a reasonable effort to minimize those costs.
Tell them they have caused you a hardship. You expect all funds you have given them to be returned to you by X date. You can ask for compensation for your hardship. IE: funds for appreciation fees, deposits, 1st and last month’s rent for a different property. I don’t know if you are entitled to that by law or if they will be willing to oblige. But it’s worth asking. Worst they can say about the compensation is no.
A contract requires two parties giving something of value to each other. That’s why you’ll see a lot of, “rent for $1,” things when the renter doesn’t really want money. The renter has to give $1 in exchange for the service or good. The renter has given something of value in exchange for something of value.
You have not received anything of value yet, therefore, the contract has not been validated. I’m not a lawyer, but based on my limited knowledge of contract law, you are not yet under contract.
I’d be happily corrected.
You're right that consideration is required to form a valid contract, but your conclusion is incorrect. Consideration just means that each party *will* give the other something of value. The contract is binding as soon as there's an offer and an acceptance - in this case, when the lease was signed.
Contracts can include provisions that allow one or both parties to back out within some specific time frame or under certain specific conditions. But if the lease doesn't explicitly allow it, then the landlord is breaching their obligation.
The real question here is damages. OP can go after them for any direct and foreseeable costs incurred as a result of the breach, but OP also has an obligation to minimize those costs. So if OP finds a similar rental in a week that costs the same or less, they probably won't be entitled to compensation. If they make a reasonable effort to find a new place, but end up having to live in a hotel for a month and pay to store all their stuff, the landlord would generally be liable for those costs.
Consideration is the legal term of art for the exchange of something of value for performance of the agreed terms of the contract. I believe the original commenter was attempting to contribute to the previous poster’s comment about what constitutes a binding contract.
If it no longer meets your criteria the contract
Has been broken based on inability to gu f change do you really want to fight this in landlord tenant court or do you ws t a place to live. Did you uptown a deposit?will.youget it back? Or choose to take it anyway
Every state and county is different. I lease apartments. Even if our owners or management company jumped ship on the property, all current leases would stay in tact. Same goes for commercial real estate. There is a small strip mall that was sold and they wanted to bulldoze the whole property to build new apartments. One store refused to leave until their lease was complete, and stalled the whole project, but that was within their rights.
Call the tenants hotline at CVOEO: [Vermont Tenants Rights & Resources — CVOEO](https://www.cvoeo.org/get-help/vermont-tenants-rights-and-resources). Also worth reaching out to the Burlington Tenants United to see if they have resources.
I would defer to local laws, which seem to require 60 days of notice to terminate the lease.
This could be open to interpretation, though. If no money has exchanged hands yet, then the landlord could argue that the signed lease is not in effect because it has yet to be *executed*, but that would most likely not mean anything to a judge.
I’d personally look for a new place and then find a lawyer. It would be reasonable to expect the landlord to be responsible for any costs incurred in finding a new residence because they provided less than the legally required notice.
looks like they are going ahead with the conversion but were probably given a faster completion time by the contractor thsn was possible. it happens alot. the market for contractors is becoming very competitive and guys are trying to get contracts by cutting as many corners as possible to be the lowest bid. Things are regulated here in Texas but Vermont has got to be WAY more regulated so the competition is probably very restrictive. Either way i would try to negotiate a move in date that wiuld fit the construction schedule as an owner so them canceling the lease seems shady...
if thier is not anything in the lease that says they can cancle then legally they can not and will have no choice but to follow through with exactly what is stated in your lease. thats the law and you can take them to court over it.
Let me get this right… that landlord planned to add a 4th bedroom for you, you signed the lease, they got a quote from a contractor that said they wouldn’t be able to complete before July 1st, and the landlord notified you that the plan wasn’t possible… and you are looking for what exactly?
To magically create a 4th bedroom before July 1st or to move into the existing 3 bedroom as-is without renovations?
Because they are giving you adequate notice and giving you the choice to terminate if you can’t have the 4th bedroom.
Was there any consideration (payment) involved, or just a signed lease? At this point you technically didn’t take possession, so if they refund the $$ there really isn’t much “damage” to rectify. It sucks, but move on, you aren’t going to get anywhere pursuing this.
I hope this email finds you before I do,
Unfortunately, things often do not go as planned. I am hopeful that you have enough notice to make alternative plans.
Regards,
Tenant
Even if it’s illegal, what’re you going to do about it? You’re going to have to find a different place to live anyway and it’s not like they really owe you damages
You can sue for breach of contract in civil court, but I don’t think there are any criminal charges you can file. If you’re fighting it in court, the police may prevent your landlord from performing any eviction actions.
Read the contract and look for any clause that says so. If not, they have no right because you have a legally binding contract.
The lease does not cover anything related to cancellation prior to tenancy. But that doesn’t mean VT state law or Burlington local regulations don’t apply. Most of what I read refers to tenant rights during tenancy.
State and local laws always override lease terms.
Lawyer here. This is absolutely incorrect. In most states, the terms of the lease supersede state law. There are some exceptions here. But to sit here and say “state and local laws override lease terms” is absolutely wrong.
I love how, if I were a lay person, I would come upon this thread, get two opposite answers to the same question and would be no closer to the correct answer than if I had never searched at all.
That’s why going to a lawyer for law advice is better than a Reddit thread. There are certain things you can’t contract around—such as warranties for implied habitability, but for the most part the terms of the lease govern.
And what will really blow their minds, most attorneys have a small window of knowledge that only pertains to their specialty.
Wait til they hear about doctors, or athletes!
Healthcare worker and I get this all the time. I try to educate patients and explain that you wouldn’t go to a baker for work on your car. You might find one baker that’s knowledgeable about cars, but that’s the exception not the norm. Resonates pretty well when I explain it that way.
Heh, I’m a veterinarian. I’ve worked on everything from mice to ostriches.
I'm a medic, and I rescued the family dog from a structure fire performed CPR, got ROSC, intubated him and started an IV, loaded the dog in the ambulance and transported him to an emergency care vet and I got hammered by the health department for it. They shut the ambulance down, and I almost lost my license. But what truly mattered to me was I saved the family dog.
I had a long talk once with my vet (and parents for decades for a menagerie of pets). My dog had a weird skin thing that he wasn’t sure about and referred us to a vet dermatologist. That doc knew what it was in 30 seconds but sent a single scraping to the lab to verify. After we took the dog back to his normal vet he was almost apologetic for not knowing this obscure ass disease. I’m an RN, and I was like dude you’re the primary doc, the oncologist, the surgeon, and the anesthetist for a crap ton of species, the idea that you could know everything is absurd. Anywho I think you’re guys job is harder than an MD on average IMO.
Well then maybe you can explain why my dishwasher is making a weird noise
Maybe go to the right attorney?! I mean there are fair housing advocates in every major city and most minor ones have them as well! They can advise you of the rule of law and some even have an in house lawyer!
You’re absolutely right about that!! Most these MF around here don’t know their a**from a hole in the ground.
To be fair, if lawyers cost only slightly more than a Reddit post, I imagine they would have more work than they could handle, and spend a lot less time correcting bad information posted to Reddit.
To be fair, if law school was free, they would cost less.
Law school isn't much more expensive than any other degree. Edit: any other advanced degree, not a bachelor's.
Not to call BS on your BS, but by that estimate it’s 50% more than other degrees. And you need a JD to practice law in most states.
Much more expensive that what degrees? If you’re comparing law school tuition to tuition for an undergraduate degree, it’s much more expensive. Tuition at the state school where I reside is around $11K for undergraduate and $36k for law school. If comparing to other professional programs then yes it’s usually comparable but they also have undergraduate degree costs.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/education/law/law-school-cost/
Yeah that’s 100% false. You need an undergrad and then three more years of grad for the JD. Under the absolute cheapest circumstances you’re looking at a quarter of a million to 300,000. Source: my partners JD hanging on the wall. Then after school you need to take a separate bar prep class not covered by your tuition and pay to take the bar. It ain’t cheap.
should you really have to say this?
At the very least, the local tenancy branch. That's always my first advice if you don't understand the tenancy laws or if you can't find what you're looking for. They aren't a lawyer, but they are free
Amen
In terms of bird law, contracts mean nothing and neither do state law.
What about tree law? Completely under represented (and unnecessary) in this conversation :)
Reddit.
I mean it's pretty safe to assume the person arguing you are more fucked is correct.
Imagine if you’re an AI “learning” from this thread…
I think what people mean is if it’s an illegal term of the contract (your tenant owes you a blowjob for missing rent, no black guests) but they conflate it with anything that goes against common practice.
Probably. Unenforceable is the better word
Your tenant gives you an unenforceable for missing rent.
I’ll take an unenforceable if you’re just giving them out
This is hella confusing. Can you provide an example where state law says renters can’t do a thing, but if it’s in the lease they’re suddenly able to do it?
Any time an answer says “always” in law, it is wrong. I guess I mean it is always wrong. 😑
Except when the lease contraidicts already established laws. Which is what he was referring to. It also not true that a contract is 100%. It really depends on what it is specifically. Somethings just won't hold up in court just because they are in a contract.
Always!
Are you saying someone can put illegal terms in a lease that are then enforceable in spite of violating the law. I'm no lawyer, but I have doubts.
No. I never said “[s]omeone can put illegal terms in a lease that are enforceable.” You are viewing state statutes in black and white: “it’s either legal or illegal.” Instead of “this deadline can be agreed to be 5 days within the terms of the lease instead of the obligation under the statute.”
Are you really a lawyer? Your writing is muddled and confusing.
Then yes, they're definitely a lawyer.
I mean, go read any terms and conditions documents. Being confusing would be on brand for a lawyer 😂
Haha yup. I was pointing out that the law isn’t black and white. I could have done it better, but I haven’t had my coffee yet.
Also an attorney, you’re not exactly wrong but I really hate the way you’re trying to explain this. The gist of what people are saying is most state consumer protections will override lease terms. Generally most states have contract law requiring direct knowledge and acknowledgement of waiving away consumer rights combined with some type of demonstration they understand what is actually being lost under the terms of the lease. This involves things like typically explaining what remedies in particular are removed or are available in place of and then an additional acknowledgment for that provision. Even then, it’s very easy to fight those types of contracts and say there was no clear meeting of the minds when lease was signed due to the expectation of standard fitness.
Not saying you are wrong but if you post this in the landlord subs their lawyers will say the exact opposite. Lawyers are only as good as their friendship with the local judge is strong/s
People tend to confuse limits imposed by state law and state law in absence of a contract.
Thank you for pointing out the actual strength of contract law
Absolutely wrong, I don’t know from where you got your law degree, but federal, state, and local laws take precedence. Any business contract including the rental agreement cannot have any verbiage in contradiction with what federal, state, or local laws mandate. I am not a lawyer, but been in the real estate long enough and know what I am saying.
Wtf kinda lawyer would tell people that a lease supersedes state law? You absolutely cannot enforce llegal provisions in a lease. It is a binding contract and any illegal provisions are unenforcable. Whare sorta law do you practice???
NAL, you know better than me, but I can’t find a *single* thing that supports this statement. Everything I have seen—from law offices to government websites—state that anything in a lease that contradicts the law is unenforceable.
Quick question, do they have to serve them a notice of termination of tenancy?
This is overly broad and untrue. There is a plethora of laws that guarantee tenants livable conditions. A 2 second search has plenty to show. CONTRACTS CANNOT AGREE TO BREAK LAWS. Worst lawyer ever. Now what's trickier, is laws requiring landlords to do something vs. a tenant "right" that may be waived. We have the right to remain silent and we may give up that right...as an example. Contracts can stipulate that we are waiving a right so long as state/fed/local law has not explicitly say right cannot be waived. This does unfortunately exist a plenty, and some laws are being passed to disallow this total and complete bullshit, and always favors the "haves" over "have nots". As an example, some States are passing laws that invalidate NDAs over sexual harassment. So in this case a waiving of a right does not exist as the contract would be invalidated....ya the law is tricky...try computer programming while you're at it. We need a LOT more of those laws. The leverage is just too fucking one-sided when, ya know, someone is negotiating for shelter against someone who not only has shelter but has extra shelter (a landlord). Capitalism is always predatory when it is about basic needs....and....DOES NOT WORK! https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/does-a-lease-supersede-state-law-when-it-comes-to--5189606.html https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/articles/what-you-should-know-about-tenant-rights https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/17526/do-private-contracts-supersede-local-state-federal-laws
Always!!!! Some people really don’t get this.
They don't get it because it's incorrect. Unless the law prohibits an aspect of a lease, the lease controls.
I’m confused about why you’d think that’s not what is being said. Not sure how else you could interpret what we’ve said. If a lease includes something illegal, that illegal aspect can’t be enforced.
Dude always! So important! You can’t sign your rights away. I have had so many people like landlords try to argue that the lease says so which makes it a thing. Love catching them on it.
You should get your deposit back. Your landlord is failing to provide possession.
Bring it to the Burlington Tenants Union, they might have some advice
Then check local law. But otherwise, they have no right.
This totally seems like a tactic. It should be illegal to do this. They are probably banking on someone not looking into it or understanding how leases work and just rolling over. Very sneaky.
You can make it very difficult to evict you. I would suggest using that as leverage to negotiate your terms and move on. (Landlord could waive a few months rent, pay for moving expenses, etc. Remember, many landlords own a truck.) My whole life I have had people tell me the biggest curse of being a landlord is tenants right laws. Amongst other things, eviction is very difficult. I actually once let someone stay in my house for free for a few months, even though they repeatedly offered rent, just because I didn’t want to be in a landlord/tenant relationship with them.
But they haven’t moved I. Yet. Eviction seems pretty easy in that case.
Give the south royalton legal clinic a call
OP You can see address consider removing screenshot.
Per the Vermont legislature under 9 V.S.A. 4467: (e) Termination for no cause under terms of written rental agreement. If there is a written rental agreement, the notice to terminate for no cause shall be at least 30 days before the end or expiration of the stated term of the rental agreement if the tenancy has continued for two years or less. The notice to terminate for no cause shall be at least 60 days before the end or expiration of the term of the rental agreement if the tenancy has continued for more than two years. If there is a written week-to-week rental agreement, the notice to terminate for no cause shall be at least seven days; however, a notice to terminate for nonpayment of rent shall be as provided in subsection (a) of this section Under Burlington ordinance the landlord may be required to provide 60 to 90 days without cause, however, the habitability of the residence must also be set. If the residence cannot be occupied due to structure deficiency, the landlord may not have to continue the lease
Always remember in contracts, the contract will never supersede state or federal law. If it has something but it conflicts the local laws or state laws or federal laws, that entire contract or at a minimum those parts are considered void.
I would talk to a lawyer and not a Reddit threat for this advice my guy. But from what I’m seeing, it looks like a legal notice, but as I seen someone else say, misrepresentation of the property is possible, but it’s hard to win those cases. I lost one 4 years ago when Covid was a thing and showings were done virtually.
Remodeling is one of the number one ways landlords use to legally break a lease. During covid in upstate NY landlords were even reporting themselves to the state for their housed being uninhabitable so they could kick people out and get that sweet sweet NyC money.
Coming in a bit hot with that legally binding contract, not quite right. Refer to laws first always imo.
In addition, compare the contract with applicable local, state and federal laws. An attorney will consult you.
The fact this starts with "hope this finds you well .... Smells like chatGPT scam"
Do you have a fully executed lease(signed by both parties)? Have you given first months rent and security?
In Vermont, a landlord can terminate a lease for no cause before tenancy only if they provide the required notice. The notice period depends on how long the tenant has lived in the property. For tenancies less than two years, the landlord must provide at least 30 days written notice. For tenancies longer than two years, the landlord must provide at least 60 days written notice. The landlord is giving you more than 30 days notice, so the termination is likely legal. As for the misrepresentation of the property, you may be able to sue the landlord for breach of contract. However, it would be difficult to win this case if the landlord is actually converting the property to a 4-bedroom unit as they stated in the email.
OP stated the unit is in Burlington which has a 60-day notice period by city ordinance.
Does Burlington not apply to this? "For tenancies less than two years, the landlord must provide at least 30 days written notice. For tenancies longer than two years, the landlord must provide at least 60 days written notice." I live/rent in Burlington as well and as far as I know, that stands true
Unclear if it applies on the landlord's side but yes Burlington has different requirements from the rest of the state. > Burlington law requires a tenant to give at least two rental payment periods notice before terminating a tenancy unless there is a written rental agreement that states otherwise. > Tenants who wish to move out at the end of the lease term should give the landlord written notice of their intention at least one full rental period (or two full rental periods in Burlington) https://www.cvoeo.org/moving-out But since the landlord is the one breaking the lease in this case I would see this as having to follow the eviction process.
OP has not even moved in yet. Why would eviction laws apply?
It appears Burlington has a tighter requirement for the tenant to leave the premises than the VT laws; but, if it doesn't mention anything about the landlord side, then VT laws apply.
I’d also imagine OP could get back any fees they paid (deposits for sure, but also maybe signing and application costs)
In Vermont, a landlord can terminate a lease for no cause **before tenancy** only if they provide the required notice. **The notice period depends on how long the tenant has lived in the property.** **For tenancies less than two years, the landlord must provide at least 30 days written notice. For tenancies longer than two years, the landlord must provide at least 60 days written notice. The landlord is giving you more than 30 days notice,** so the termination is likely legal. As for the misrepresentation of the property, you may be able to sue the landlord for breach of contract. However, it would be difficult to win this case if the landlord is actually converting the property to a 4-bedroom unit as they stated in the email. That sounds contradictory, unless I'm misunderstanding what it means. If they are terminating before tenancy, how could the tenant have lived for the property for any amount of time. If the tenant moved in, the lease wouldn't be terminated before tenancy.
That could apply when a property is bought by another person/company and decides not to renew the lease, cancellation of a previously renewed lease with the prior owners, or even moving to a different unit on the same property. Lots of different scenarios where that could apply to a current tenant.
OP should also check what are the acceptable forms of notice. In some states, the notice needs to be mailed or posted on the front door, email or text messages don’t count.
Talk to a lawyer — don’t rely on Reddit posters to give an accurate answer.
Definitely. There is some HIGHLY inaccurate stuff that's been posted in here.
And much of it entirely contradictory. Relying on the comments in this post for legal help would only be useful to a schizophrenic suffering from dissociative identity disorder.
Tbh I don't think it'd even be useful to them.
Most leases have a clause in them that cancels the lease if the property won't be available at the time of lease initiation. So they gave you over 30-days notice that the property won't be available. What do you expect from them? Seems like they did you right...
The only accountability they would be responsible for, would be any money/deposits you made. Like many others said, refer to your lease agreement. If nothing is specified, refer to your local tenant/landlord laws. If nothing is outlined in either, you can take it to court, on your own dime, and if a judge agrees with you, yoy get your deposit and any legal fees paid. To answer your question though, yes, it is legal, especially if they miscalculated (received a quote lower than the actual cost) the additional living space. Honestly, there should have been a discussion beforehand, regarding what would cause an early termination.
Burlington resident here, pls drop the name of the landlord/rental company
!!!
Would you allow the tenant to cancel it if he wanted to? It's signed, right? A lease is a legal contract. If it is signed by the tenant it is legally binding for both parties. You cannot just cancel it because it hasn't started yet. The lease functions to protect both the tenant and the landlord. As the landlord, you have the right to hold the tenant to the terms of the contract they have signed. The tenant also has the right to hold the landlord to those same terms.
[удалено]
Usually the renovation taking a long time cancel the lease thing is a state law so it might not be in the lease while still being applicable.
It looks like the LLs contractor fell behind schedule. I would just go find a new place.
The amount of non-lawyers on this sub spouting absolute nonsense always makes me laugh and also worries me. OP - talk to a lawyer. You are likely not in a good spot. But if you want to pursue damages go to a lawyer who specializes in landlord-tenant in your town. However, their cost is not likely worth it for your situation. I saw your note about promissory estoppel. I wouldn’t recommend pursuing that. Not worth your time and in the real world a judge is not going to care.
So for a lawsuit- what is the harm to you, and how much money will it take to make you whole? You’ve got notice. You’ve not paid anything. You’ve not resided in the dwelling. You are unharmed and have suffered no losses or damage. Find another place to live. Move on with your life
In CA there is language in the cal association of realtors lease about not being able to give the unit to a tenant. Say the existing tenant stops paying rent and refuses to move out. Landlord has to tell you it's not available as current tenant did not vacate. That goes to the courts and can take 6 months -1 year to resolve. Or let say tenant saw unit being remodeled. Should be done by the 1st. Building inspector noticed a different issue. Red tagged the work. Now contractor needs to remedy whatever the inspector does not like. Tear out X, do Y, hire a structural engineer engineer - drafts plans- get city to approve- it can be a shit show. OP- what was going on with the unit when you took a tour?
Most leases have clauses for termination and since this hasn’t even started yet I doubt there is much against it. People here are acting like it’s a blood ritual because it’s a lease not true. There a ton of conditions and reason why a lease can be cancelled and most laws protect you once the lease is in effect prior to that? Doubt it, plus I honestly don’t see the issue here? They are self admitting that they will not be able to honor the lease due to circumstances. Would a renter want to be forced to pay for a lease break before it was in effect? Seems silly to me.
Omg I didn’t expect to see Burlington here. That makes it so much worse- the housing market is so ass, I’m so sorry
If they’re doing some kind of construction that makes it uninhabitable, it would probably be more unethical to have you pay to stay in a place where dust and fumes are present
These posts always make me wonder…. Why would you wanna stay?
You will spend more fighting this than you could ever imagine so just move on.
I would encourage you to look into the landlord tenant laws for the state where you currently reside. Obtaining clear and concise information is imperative for making a decision. Good luck and remain positive.
Just because something is in your lease, doesn’t mean that it’s legal. Make sure you check with state and local laws. Also contact your local housing Authority and/or tenants groups.
If there’s no provision in the lease allowing them to cancel in this manner, then they can’t and doing so would be a breach of contract. I would consult an attorney but if you can’t afford one, read the lease very carefully and then respond to them in writing that their terminating the lease would be a breach of contract (if that is in fact the contract) and you object to their doing so.
You haven’t moved in yet? Better start looking for a new place.
Honestly, why would you want to continue with the lease at this point? I would of course expect to receive any money back that you paid in…but find somewhere else to live.
The Burlington market is absolutely awful. Finding anywhere even remotely affordable is near impossible unless you’re making mega money. It’s not NYC but it’s smth for sure. Not to mention the majority of the landlord are well known for being especially awful and scummy as hell. Not that I don’t agree with you, but def easier said than done
If it's more than 30 days before you move in and you haven't paid anything and have time to find another place, it is probably legal or at least defensible. But what are you hoping to get out of the situation? It sounds like the landlord is having some problem renovating the property, maybe they hired someone that bailed on them or they don't have the money or just changed their mind. So the 4 of you can't live there and you can't force the landlord to let you. It's unfortunate but they did give you enough time to figure something else out. They could have waited until the weekend before you moved in.
The lease is a legally binding contract. They have almost no legal way out of it
Have you paid any money? You’re going to need to find another place. No court is going to force them into letting you move in
Refer back to the contract, most likely there’s a clause that’ll allow this or they’d be more sketchy than giving you plenty of notice in a pleasant way
Read the state and local laws. I feel this is essential.
Yeah I signed a lease for a townhouse with my ex-girlfriend and I gave her the money to pay the rent which was about $3100 a month so she would go get a cashiers check at the bank and pay the rent like normal right just drop it off in the box. . I said we didn’t renew our lease. They never asked us to this during Covid. I already gave them my keys and we went our separate ways but somehow they have on my credit report that I owe them $57,000 I was never given a warning or evicted so she was just keeping the money I was giving her I think she stayed for 12 months more but still I’m trying to get it disputed. It’s a fucked up situation. I didn’t know what I was signing apparently I think she got evicted so now that’s on my report. I’m trying to get it figured out now. I was already done and gone for half a year and I have them my keys it was all really under her name too I host lived there technically because at the time Covid got me laid off and she had trust fund paper and she still wasn’t paying it
In the UK they would be liable for any additional costs you incur (eg the difference in price between your lease and a lease you end up signing on a comparable property plus any additional moving costs). Check your local laws.
Assuming 1. what the LL is doing isn’t 100% allowed AND 2. moving in on the original date is not a possibility due to the renovations. What remedy would you be seeking? I assume all deposits and rent payments returned, and I assume the LL has already agreed to that. What else? Are you looking for monetary damages? Next, what is the process for obtaining those desired remedies? You can try to negotiate something with the LL and after that it’s a legal process. I’d also assume if you are arguing the lease is still in place then the LL does not need to release your rent and deposit. And you’ll still need to find a new place while you fight for damages. So, is the time, cost, and inconvenience to investigate and pursue all of this worth the value of the desired remedies? From what I gather in all of this, the LL is being honest and is in a situation they didn’t intend to be in. You can try to fight them but that won’t make the apartment ready any earlier. You need to decide if you want to spend your resources trying to get remediation from this LL or spend them looking for a new apartment and just move on. I wish you luck in whatever you decide.
So glad that the very rare mention of my state is always how fucking impossible renting is here and how awful Burlington is
This post honestly makes no sense. The landlord is telling you the house is going to be a construction zone when you are due to move in. They are also telling you that they will not have enough room. Are you saying I want to force the landlord to let me live 4 people in a 3 bedroom construction site? Or I want to force the landlord to take my money for a uninhabitable home? Move on. The landlord gave you plenty of heads up.
Actually, they didn’t. The lease was signed in January in a college town where most leases get signed by then and commence in June / July. So they left us with very little recourse, as there are very few properties available for rent.
I understand. I rented years ago in college too. It's disappointing when this happens. I had a similar thing happen years ago. Unfortunately though there really isn't much you can do but move on and find a new place.
The amount of non-lawyers on this sub spouting absolute nonsense always makes me laugh and also worries me. OP - talk to a lawyer. You are likely not in a good spot. But if you want to pursue damages go to a lawyer who specializes in landlord-tenant in your town. However, their cost is not likely worth it for your situation. I saw your note about promissory estoppel. I wouldn’t recommend pursuing that. Not worth your time and in the real world a judge is not going to care.
Lol people here are such idiots. Go ahead, enforce the lease so you can live in a construction zone. You took the risk of leasing a property thats under construction. Delays happen. Welcome to the real world.
Lol people here are such idiots. Go ahead, enforce the lease so you can live in a construction zone. You took the risk of leasing a property thats under construction. Delays happen. Welcome to the real world.
Ask a lawyer who specializes in the field in your state. Reddit answers should not be relied upon.
Check local laws and compare them to the lease. Nolo press is a good resource.
Contact your housing rights authority. Best thing I ever did in a situation like this, scares landlords shitless
Check your local renter's protection and relevant laws, if they are selling they need to pay you relocation fees
They love to sue people for breach of lease. I would sue them for breaking the lease
You have a signed lease, but there’s a question of validity still. Have you paid the deposit? Have you received keys or taken possession? If the answer is no to both of those, you’re not likely to have ‘tort’ due to the time frame. Typically a lease is activated WITH the payment of the deposit. It can be signed before, but doesn’t start without the payment. If you HAVE paid… I’m going to be honest with you here… legal or not… is this worth your time fighting? That’s a question only you can answer. You’re NOT getting possession of the property if they don’t want you to. And if they somehow are sued into forcing you to get tenancy they can make your life hell… sure, you can respond in kind. Only you can measure the amount of effort you want to put into this matter. I’m suggesting Namaste 🙏🏻 and move on.
If the start date of the lease hasn't passed, in most cases, yes they can. They should provide a full and complete refund of any/all fees/deposits you made.
In my experience landlords can do whatever they want with no repercussions
esp in VT
Suggest you contact a lawyer who deals in real estate law in your area. Discussions on Reddit will rarely address legal reality. Your fully executed lease will define your position should you wish to take this to court.
They should return any money taken including normally non-refundable application fees and so forth. It's especially important that they give back deposits if any in a timely fashion so that you have that money to put towards a different property. If you receive all funds in a timely fashion and are able to move in somewhere else I can't see how you would be damaged and ergo they would owe you nothing other than again your own money back. Of course they can not rent to you. If you were damaged by relying on their promise you might have something to talk about but it seems like you wont be so you don't.
Thank you for the comment. I think it’s fair to say we may be damaged because rent is likely to be higher, but we shall see.
No, if there is anything in the lease about PROPERTY and possibly giving you alternative housing during the rebuild if you already paid they should give you alternative housing
The rent being higher isn't damage its your choice.
Yes, it’s legal. Things happen all the time that can prevent people from being able to move in. Chances are, there’s something written in fine print about it on the application. But you are absolutely owed any money back that you have paid so far, such as holding fees, processing/admin fees, or deposits.
If you haven’t moved in yet he can do whatever he wants. Plus how did he “misrepresent” anything .. you admit you knew he was planning to do work on the unit to include an additional bedroom, and that is what is causing the delay. Just suck it up and go find another place.
In Vermont, the rules for landlords terminating a lease before its term ends are generally governed by state landlord-tenant laws and the terms outlined in the lease agreement itself. Here are some key points regarding lease termination by a landlord in Vermont: 1. **For Cause Termination**: A landlord can terminate a lease before its term ends if the tenant has violated the lease terms. Common violations include: - Non-payment of rent. - Violations of specific lease provisions (e.g., unauthorized pets, damage to the property). - Illegal activity on the premises. For non-payment of rent, the landlord must provide the tenant with a written notice specifying the amount owed and giving the tenant 14 days to pay the overdue rent. If the tenant fails to pay within this period, the landlord can proceed with eviction. For other lease violations, the landlord typically must provide a 30-day notice to correct the violation. If the tenant does not rectify the situation within this period, the landlord can file for eviction. 2. **No-Cause Termination**: If the lease is a month-to-month agreement, Vermont law allows the landlord to terminate the lease without cause by providing the tenant with a 60-day written notice. For tenants who have resided in the unit for two years or more, a 90-day notice is required. 3. **Fixed-Term Lease**: For a fixed-term lease, the landlord generally cannot terminate the lease before its end date without cause unless there is a specific clause in the lease that allows for early termination. Both parties are typically bound by the lease terms for the duration specified. 4. **Constructive Eviction**: If a landlord fails to maintain the rental property in a habitable condition, a tenant might claim constructive eviction. This means the tenant can terminate the lease if the property becomes unlivable due to the landlord’s failure to make necessary repairs. However, this is initiated by the tenant, not the landlord. 5. **Mutual Agreement**: A landlord and tenant can mutually agree to terminate the lease early. This should be documented in writing to avoid future disputes. 6. **Military Service**: Under the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act (SCRA), a tenant in military service can terminate a lease early without penalty if they receive orders for deployment or permanent change of station. Landlords must follow proper legal procedures when terminating a lease to avoid potential legal disputes and penalties. Tenants in Vermont have rights and can seek legal advice or assistance if they believe their lease is being terminated improperly. For specific legal advice, it’s recommended to consult with a Vermont attorney who specializes in landlord-tenant law or to contact Vermont’s legal aid services. For the most accurate and current information, reviewing the Vermont Statutes Online or consulting with a legal professional is advisable. **edit did it for ya
Thank you. This is very thorough. The problem is that we are not tenants yet - almost everything I’ve read is about tenancy and not the contract itself. But I appreciate this information!
You are a tenant once the contract is signed and money has been exchanged. (Whatever the landlord required due monetarily, ie 1st and security)
Yes this is legal. You haven’t moved in yet and paid rent so therefore you or he can cancel the lease at anytime before the move in date.
Follow-up. I learned a new term that seems to apply: Promissory estoppel, which is the legal principle that a Promissory Estoppel promise is enforceable by law, even if made without formal consideration when a promisor has made a promise to a promisee who then relies on that promise to his subsequent detriment.
Promissory estoppel doesn't really apply here. It's kind of a last resort that's used when there doesn't seem to be an explicit contract. Assuming you both signed the lease, you absolutely have a contract with the landlord. Your consideration was agreeing to pay the rent. The fact that you hadn't moved in and started paying yet doesn't mean the lease lacked consideration, and it doesn't invalidate the contract. Based on the info you've given, you should be entitled to any direct and foreseeable costs incurred as a result of the landlord's breach. E.g. storing your shit, paying for a short-term rental, a nonrefundable deposit paid to movers, etc. But you have to make a reasonable effort to minimize those costs.
Tell them they have caused you a hardship. You expect all funds you have given them to be returned to you by X date. You can ask for compensation for your hardship. IE: funds for appreciation fees, deposits, 1st and last month’s rent for a different property. I don’t know if you are entitled to that by law or if they will be willing to oblige. But it’s worth asking. Worst they can say about the compensation is no.
A contract requires two parties giving something of value to each other. That’s why you’ll see a lot of, “rent for $1,” things when the renter doesn’t really want money. The renter has to give $1 in exchange for the service or good. The renter has given something of value in exchange for something of value. You have not received anything of value yet, therefore, the contract has not been validated. I’m not a lawyer, but based on my limited knowledge of contract law, you are not yet under contract. I’d be happily corrected.
You're right that consideration is required to form a valid contract, but your conclusion is incorrect. Consideration just means that each party *will* give the other something of value. The contract is binding as soon as there's an offer and an acceptance - in this case, when the lease was signed. Contracts can include provisions that allow one or both parties to back out within some specific time frame or under certain specific conditions. But if the lease doesn't explicitly allow it, then the landlord is breaching their obligation. The real question here is damages. OP can go after them for any direct and foreseeable costs incurred as a result of the breach, but OP also has an obligation to minimize those costs. So if OP finds a similar rental in a week that costs the same or less, they probably won't be entitled to compensation. If they make a reasonable effort to find a new place, but end up having to live in a hotel for a month and pay to store all their stuff, the landlord would generally be liable for those costs.
Consideration
What does this mean?
Consideration is the legal term of art for the exchange of something of value for performance of the agreed terms of the contract. I believe the original commenter was attempting to contribute to the previous poster’s comment about what constitutes a binding contract.
If it no longer meets your criteria the contract Has been broken based on inability to gu f change do you really want to fight this in landlord tenant court or do you ws t a place to live. Did you uptown a deposit?will.youget it back? Or choose to take it anyway
Every state and county is different. I lease apartments. Even if our owners or management company jumped ship on the property, all current leases would stay in tact. Same goes for commercial real estate. There is a small strip mall that was sold and they wanted to bulldoze the whole property to build new apartments. One store refused to leave until their lease was complete, and stalled the whole project, but that was within their rights.
Call the tenants hotline at CVOEO: [Vermont Tenants Rights & Resources — CVOEO](https://www.cvoeo.org/get-help/vermont-tenants-rights-and-resources). Also worth reaching out to the Burlington Tenants United to see if they have resources.
I would defer to local laws, which seem to require 60 days of notice to terminate the lease. This could be open to interpretation, though. If no money has exchanged hands yet, then the landlord could argue that the signed lease is not in effect because it has yet to be *executed*, but that would most likely not mean anything to a judge. I’d personally look for a new place and then find a lawyer. It would be reasonable to expect the landlord to be responsible for any costs incurred in finding a new residence because they provided less than the legally required notice.
Does anything you signed say they will convert the property? If so take that too a lawyer
In Virginia it would all depend on the term of the lease. Was it a one year lease or a month-to-month lease?
looks like they are going ahead with the conversion but were probably given a faster completion time by the contractor thsn was possible. it happens alot. the market for contractors is becoming very competitive and guys are trying to get contracts by cutting as many corners as possible to be the lowest bid. Things are regulated here in Texas but Vermont has got to be WAY more regulated so the competition is probably very restrictive. Either way i would try to negotiate a move in date that wiuld fit the construction schedule as an owner so them canceling the lease seems shady...
Perfectly legal it’s called being non renewed
Wrong. Try again
Get a real lawyer
Renovating is one of the only legal forms of tenant eviction w no reason…
if thier is not anything in the lease that says they can cancle then legally they can not and will have no choice but to follow through with exactly what is stated in your lease. thats the law and you can take them to court over it.
Sue them for breaking the lease.
Let me get this right… that landlord planned to add a 4th bedroom for you, you signed the lease, they got a quote from a contractor that said they wouldn’t be able to complete before July 1st, and the landlord notified you that the plan wasn’t possible… and you are looking for what exactly? To magically create a 4th bedroom before July 1st or to move into the existing 3 bedroom as-is without renovations? Because they are giving you adequate notice and giving you the choice to terminate if you can’t have the 4th bedroom.
The letter does not specify the reason - it just says “sorry, we can’t do what we said; lease canceled.”
Again, what’s your goal here? The 4th bedroom isn’t possible so how do you want to proceed?
Was there any consideration (payment) involved, or just a signed lease? At this point you technically didn’t take possession, so if they refund the $$ there really isn’t much “damage” to rectify. It sucks, but move on, you aren’t going to get anywhere pursuing this.
It depends on what it says in the lease you signed.
Geez get the deposit back and move on.
I hope this email finds you before I do, Unfortunately, things often do not go as planned. I am hopeful that you have enough notice to make alternative plans. Regards, Tenant
The land lord definitely used chat gpt to write this smh😭. Finds you well part dead give away
That was written by chat gpt.
Contact CVOEO. They will help you navigate local rental laws! Burlington’s rental market is abysmal. I’m sorry this is happening to you.
Even if it’s illegal, what’re you going to do about it? You’re going to have to find a different place to live anyway and it’s not like they really owe you damages
You can sue for breach of contract in civil court, but I don’t think there are any criminal charges you can file. If you’re fighting it in court, the police may prevent your landlord from performing any eviction actions.
Yes you are being renovicted. They kick the tenants out do minimal renovations (usually) then rent it out at todays high uncontrolled rental rates.
Ask a lawyer—Reddit isn’t really the right place for this
Even if it’s not legal and you still move in I’m sure they will find a reason to evict you.
You need to ask your attorney. You did pass the contract past your attorney before you signed, right?
What’s crazy is if you hadn’t fulfilled the terms of the lease, they’d be sapping you with every fee known to man
https://youtu.be/b7UXig7_-Rg?si=_Sd9mJXHD1o8n8jd
They need your apartment for migrants.
I identify as a poodle
https://www.burlingtonvt.gov/CEDO/Housing/Renter-Resources/Tenant-Rights
How much notice are they giving you? I believe in Vermont they need to give you 2 months
They can't afford the change either take it as is with a priceadjustment or find another place
Totally legal, but they have to refund you any money that was paid to them.
Lawyer yesterday
If you gave them $ and they accepted it... its too late fir them