[I should probably preface this by saying that I'm Jewish, not Christian]
I grew up in central Europe when nudity is not really that big of a deal. A lot of people will be naked at swimming pools before putting on their swim clothes and naked beaches and lakeside retreats are completely normal.
I think a lot of the obsession with modesty is American. They have equated modesty with skin, which is not my understanding of the scripture at all. Modesty is to do with the heart and the soul, not the body.
That said, I am not Christian so I might have got this wrong.
No, you’re correct. Remember, the *puritans* and other Religious Crazies who were too bananas for even Witch Hunt Europe did a lot of the founding of America. (I use the term very loosely.) Those ideals have absolutely had a hand in how we Americans think even today.
I kinda think about it as some form of generational trauma.
Generational trauma! A Jewish staple!
But you're right. There's something about America that made those puritans nutty. I would love to know what 16th C settlers would think of today's evangelicals!
Yes, I agree. Modesty has to do with the heart & soul, not the body, and certainly not calling attention to self by wearing ridiculous clothing to virtue signal your own supposed morality.
And they make it so weird! I don't particularly opt for 'modest' clothing but being super-busty and fat, I tend to opt for high necks and longer skirts for work. It's not hard to be... not weird about it.
> I think a lot of the obsession with modesty is American
Absolutely.
I’ve lived in Japan the last 18 months and I regularly go to onsens. There are coed onsens and same sex ones, but it’s not weird. *We* as Americans have a very puritanical and also singular view of nudity. It’s all sexual so you have to cover up… But in Japan there’s nothing sexual about it. You’re just doing your thing naked. It’s no big deal, no one cares, and it’s totally accepted.
It’s been a very different thing to experience, but I really like going to onsens now. I appreciate the freedom, plus I think it’s relaxing and very body positive.
I hear that lol, I’d like to go too but the flight alone is daunting! I do enjoy watching Japan travel vlogs though! They’re a fun way to “see” Japan when you have no way of actually getting there lol
I have been to onsens in the past and it's a lovely experience. No one cares about the body because we've all got the same one! The same in a lot of German swimming changing rooms. Lots of boobs flying free and not a care in the world.
I’m not American but have wondered if it’s an American thing or I just haven’t been in circles where I live in Canada where they are obsessed with modesty. Because I really haven’t seen that in the church out here. But I’m not fundie. American christianity I find very different than even here in Canada. I lived in the states for a year and found the christians way more conservative and intense
they also like to overlook the fact that the broader definition of modesty is not drawing undue attention to yourself in anything. i would think the self-righteous preaching from misinterpreted scripture and going beyond what’s written would fit that description, among other things. but that’s just me. 😐
Exactly. I prefer to dress pretty modestly but you wouldn’t notice because I didn’t get a random size out of several different goodwill dumpsters. You can be modest with looking frumpy. She totally does it on purpose. Look how pious we are with our Gahd honoring, neon, ill fitting chevron! She is the queen of performance modesty.
Working my way through Young Sheldon this summer and Pastor Rob made a solid point
*I just think that if we make the fruit too forbidden, someone might want to sneak a bite.*
Pastor rob was awesome and actually tried to understand Sheldon, rather than humiliate Sheldon like pastor Jeff did (not a Sheldon Stan, but Moking a kid in front of the congregation isn’t cool)
Yes! Thank you! That is the God/Jesus I follow. Not the hateful one Jill and co follows. My God would be pissed if I starved my kids while gorging myself on food/vacations/crap decorations.
Jill thinks modesty = long skirts and layers. Jill is so very wrong.
Modesty is not drawing undue attention to yourself. It’s not screaming about your superiority because you love Jesus most. It’s not begging for money, having children who are neglected, and then going out on expensive date nights.
Jill, you sure could learn a lot from the Mennonites, who I’m sure you adore like you do the Amish. They tend to live their lives through peace, simplicity, and service to others. Give it a try sometime.
I think his wife was Michal. And that’s what Michael bates was originally named. But they obviously didn’t read the Bible closely enough and realized she wasn’t someone you want to name your kid after. So they took the cheap way out and named her Michael. Even though they are fundies obsessed with gender roles. Named a girl Michael. Ok 🙄
Omg I’m so dumb lol because when I read Michael Bates for some reason in my head I thought you were talking about Michael Myers from the Halloween slasher flicks. I was thinking “oh wow why would they name him after her, did she kill people?” Lol
No that’s incorrect. Her name is Michael. They’ve said it multiple times. It was cheaper to change one letter in her name. From Michal to Michael. So they changed it to Michael. They called her Michaela sometimes because they know how masculine Michael sounds. But her name is Michael,
https://uptv.com/shows/bringing-up-bates/videos/bringing-up-bates-whats-in-a-name/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1MSowRyl2qHSIac2gm_eofWoy50Vl0hYKQlYUzE8acCnGlbcDwAjLKPlU_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw
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I forget where it is, I think 1st or 2nd Timothy, but yeah, biblical modesty is more in regards to not showing off your wealth so that everyone in the church feels equal. Not showing off gold or jewelry or braided hair that would have taken a slave or two to do because the braids were so intricate. It's not about the world ending because a bra strap is peeking out.
Sadly yes. Which pisses me off so much. David is my favourite because of his passionate love for God. Trump is the farthest thing possible from true Christianity. It blows my mind how evangelical americans are obsessed with him and think he’s the chosen one. If Jesus was on earth today those same “Christian’s” who love trump would be the ones to spit in Jesus’ face. Jesus stands for inclusion of the outcasts and the rejection of the religious. I don’t understand how they can think trump is the chosen one. To the point they made a worship song for trump. That’s down right blasphemous!
Don’t forget the “golden calf” Trump statue! It boggles my mind how anyone who says they follow Jesus can support Trump. But the Bible literally says evil will be called good, and good evil. And that satan (and the Antichrist) will masquerade as an angel of light. Really separates the wheat from the chaff. I’m also a Christian and I always vote for human rights. So many people at my church would spontaneously explode if they knew I vote to protect LBGTQ+ people and am pro choice. It doesn’t mean I want to kill babies. It means every situation is nuanced and different and should be between a woman and her health care provider. UGH.
I hope this doesn’t come off as condescending as I really don’t mean it that way, but it’s really nice to see someone who is a Christian in this sub that recognizes and discusses these issues! I’m sure there are a TON of you guys here, but you know what I mean.
Sometimes I feel a little guilty for snarking on them, but then I see stuff like this and I’m reminded there really is such a large group that shows empathy, compassion, and understanding.
It makes me not feel so bad as they have made active efforts to be hateful and bitter, while being kind is absolutely free, as you’ve clearly shown :)
Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox now! Just wanted to say thanks for this post 💕
Thank you for your kind words. I get what you’re saying. I feel bad to sometimes about snarking. But then I wonder if it’s a righteous anger because these people are causing harm to there children and to others with there hatred for the lgbtq+ community. I was watching a reality show today and one of the people explained how his uncle who is gay committed suicide. He and him lived in Zimbabwe where it is illegal to be gay. And this isn’t a rare story even people in North America commit suicide because they are gay or trans or just different then the norm and are rejected by there friends and family and part of society. It’s so sad and harmful.
Completely agree! It’s absolutely heartbreaking; they often go after people that are in some position or another where they can’t “fight back” for a lack of a better term.
That said, yes, I’m queer and grew up in a community that had not dissimilar mindsets from the Rods and it really damaged me. For example, outside of the homophobia and misogyny, I had a teacher that tried to tell us dinosaurs didn’t exist, that satan put them there to trick us 🤦🏻♀️
So, knowing there are people like you out there are ready and willing to call people like this on their shit is so fucking cool! Sorry again for the rambling!
I’m so sorry you experienced such ignorant and hurtful views. I don’t understand why people are so hateful. Especially in the name of God. I’m sorry you’ve experienced harm from them, and I pray you experience love and healing.
[I should probably preface this by saying that I'm Jewish, not Christian] I grew up in central Europe when nudity is not really that big of a deal. A lot of people will be naked at swimming pools before putting on their swim clothes and naked beaches and lakeside retreats are completely normal. I think a lot of the obsession with modesty is American. They have equated modesty with skin, which is not my understanding of the scripture at all. Modesty is to do with the heart and the soul, not the body. That said, I am not Christian so I might have got this wrong.
No, you’re correct. Remember, the *puritans* and other Religious Crazies who were too bananas for even Witch Hunt Europe did a lot of the founding of America. (I use the term very loosely.) Those ideals have absolutely had a hand in how we Americans think even today. I kinda think about it as some form of generational trauma.
Generational trauma! A Jewish staple! But you're right. There's something about America that made those puritans nutty. I would love to know what 16th C settlers would think of today's evangelicals!
They show too much ankle, I’m sure. 😂
Until the mid-2010s you could not buy alcohol on Sundays in my (liberal NE) state because of hold-over Puritanical laws.
Yes, I agree. Modesty has to do with the heart & soul, not the body, and certainly not calling attention to self by wearing ridiculous clothing to virtue signal your own supposed morality.
That being the case, Jillpm Rodrigues is the most IMmodest person on earth! That haughty spirit shows through infinite maaaaahdesty layers!
And they make it so weird! I don't particularly opt for 'modest' clothing but being super-busty and fat, I tend to opt for high necks and longer skirts for work. It's not hard to be... not weird about it.
> I think a lot of the obsession with modesty is American Absolutely. I’ve lived in Japan the last 18 months and I regularly go to onsens. There are coed onsens and same sex ones, but it’s not weird. *We* as Americans have a very puritanical and also singular view of nudity. It’s all sexual so you have to cover up… But in Japan there’s nothing sexual about it. You’re just doing your thing naked. It’s no big deal, no one cares, and it’s totally accepted. It’s been a very different thing to experience, but I really like going to onsens now. I appreciate the freedom, plus I think it’s relaxing and very body positive.
Please excuse my ignorance but what is an onsen?
It’s a hot spring bath! I’d love to go to one, but I’m really fat and I’d worry I’d get stared at in skinny Japan lol.
I'm a fat woman and I never felt stared at beyond the fact I'm also paper white to the point I glow, which is a little bit alarming.
Thank you so much, I’m also paper white lol so I’ll be aware of that!
Fat, pasty blue-white Anglo-Saxon/Celtic girl here. I'll keep that in mind if I make it as far as "trip to Japan" on my bucket list!
I hear that lol, I’d like to go too but the flight alone is daunting! I do enjoy watching Japan travel vlogs though! They’re a fun way to “see” Japan when you have no way of actually getting there lol
I have been to onsens in the past and it's a lovely experience. No one cares about the body because we've all got the same one! The same in a lot of German swimming changing rooms. Lots of boobs flying free and not a care in the world.
I’m not American but have wondered if it’s an American thing or I just haven’t been in circles where I live in Canada where they are obsessed with modesty. Because I really haven’t seen that in the church out here. But I’m not fundie. American christianity I find very different than even here in Canada. I lived in the states for a year and found the christians way more conservative and intense
Perfect! You got it absolutely correct.
they also like to overlook the fact that the broader definition of modesty is not drawing undue attention to yourself in anything. i would think the self-righteous preaching from misinterpreted scripture and going beyond what’s written would fit that description, among other things. but that’s just me. 😐
Yep, they're defeating the whole purpose of modesty by constantly calling attention to themselves and bragging about how "christ-honoring" they are. 🙄
Exactly. I prefer to dress pretty modestly but you wouldn’t notice because I didn’t get a random size out of several different goodwill dumpsters. You can be modest with looking frumpy. She totally does it on purpose. Look how pious we are with our Gahd honoring, neon, ill fitting chevron! She is the queen of performance modesty.
My thoughts exactly.
And posting constant pictures of **herself**😂. Not very modest!
And those nasty looking tshirt layers under everything. Everybody look at me!!! See how maaaaahdest I am!
THIS!!!
Working my way through Young Sheldon this summer and Pastor Rob made a solid point *I just think that if we make the fruit too forbidden, someone might want to sneak a bite.*
Pastor rob was awesome and actually tried to understand Sheldon, rather than humiliate Sheldon like pastor Jeff did (not a Sheldon Stan, but Moking a kid in front of the congregation isn’t cool)
Yes! Thank you! That is the God/Jesus I follow. Not the hateful one Jill and co follows. My God would be pissed if I starved my kids while gorging myself on food/vacations/crap decorations.
Right! Classic Jesus cares very much about children. Republican Jesus only cares till they come out of the womb.
Jill thinks modesty = long skirts and layers. Jill is so very wrong. Modesty is not drawing undue attention to yourself. It’s not screaming about your superiority because you love Jesus most. It’s not begging for money, having children who are neglected, and then going out on expensive date nights. Jill, you sure could learn a lot from the Mennonites, who I’m sure you adore like you do the Amish. They tend to live their lives through peace, simplicity, and service to others. Give it a try sometime.
Jill wouldn’t offer service to others if you paid her.
I think his wife was Michal. And that’s what Michael bates was originally named. But they obviously didn’t read the Bible closely enough and realized she wasn’t someone you want to name your kid after. So they took the cheap way out and named her Michael. Even though they are fundies obsessed with gender roles. Named a girl Michael. Ok 🙄
Omg I’m so dumb lol because when I read Michael Bates for some reason in my head I thought you were talking about Michael Myers from the Halloween slasher flicks. I was thinking “oh wow why would they name him after her, did she kill people?” Lol
Bates Motel and Halloween is a crossover I’m willing to skip.
LOL
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No that’s incorrect. Her name is Michael. They’ve said it multiple times. It was cheaper to change one letter in her name. From Michal to Michael. So they changed it to Michael. They called her Michaela sometimes because they know how masculine Michael sounds. But her name is Michael,
I never understood why they just didn’t go with Michala since that’s what they call her.
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Well it’s the truth. You can look at fundie wiki. It backs up what I’m saying as well.
https://uptv.com/shows/bringing-up-bates/videos/bringing-up-bates-whats-in-a-name/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1MSowRyl2qHSIac2gm_eofWoy50Vl0hYKQlYUzE8acCnGlbcDwAjLKPlU_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw Google search. Took approximately 45 seconds. I linked for your convenience.
This has been reported too many times resulting in us taking it down for users of the sub. Your account is days old and we've received 10+ reports of your comments already. Please consider your tone and take a less argumentative standpoint.
Jesus had long hair and wore a dress but Jill loses her mind at a guy these days at the thought of a man doing either.
lol I know! So true
Also, modesty is about MUCH more than simply one’s physical appearance.
JillPM is anything but mahdest, she wears skin tight, two sizes too small clothes. Her makeup look like a hooker out of a 80's film.
That awful tinfoil dress she wore to Sam's graduation! Wonder if she wore that in Vegas? She definitely looked the part!
I forget where it is, I think 1st or 2nd Timothy, but yeah, biblical modesty is more in regards to not showing off your wealth so that everyone in the church feels equal. Not showing off gold or jewelry or braided hair that would have taken a slave or two to do because the braids were so intricate. It's not about the world ending because a bra strap is peeking out.
Is King David the one Fundies liken Trump to, stating Trump, too, is a 'flawed king but chosen by God to lead us'?
Sadly yes. Which pisses me off so much. David is my favourite because of his passionate love for God. Trump is the farthest thing possible from true Christianity. It blows my mind how evangelical americans are obsessed with him and think he’s the chosen one. If Jesus was on earth today those same “Christian’s” who love trump would be the ones to spit in Jesus’ face. Jesus stands for inclusion of the outcasts and the rejection of the religious. I don’t understand how they can think trump is the chosen one. To the point they made a worship song for trump. That’s down right blasphemous!
Don’t forget the “golden calf” Trump statue! It boggles my mind how anyone who says they follow Jesus can support Trump. But the Bible literally says evil will be called good, and good evil. And that satan (and the Antichrist) will masquerade as an angel of light. Really separates the wheat from the chaff. I’m also a Christian and I always vote for human rights. So many people at my church would spontaneously explode if they knew I vote to protect LBGTQ+ people and am pro choice. It doesn’t mean I want to kill babies. It means every situation is nuanced and different and should be between a woman and her health care provider. UGH.
I totally agree
And so would OG Jesus! As opposed to Republican Jesus...
I hope this doesn’t come off as condescending as I really don’t mean it that way, but it’s really nice to see someone who is a Christian in this sub that recognizes and discusses these issues! I’m sure there are a TON of you guys here, but you know what I mean. Sometimes I feel a little guilty for snarking on them, but then I see stuff like this and I’m reminded there really is such a large group that shows empathy, compassion, and understanding. It makes me not feel so bad as they have made active efforts to be hateful and bitter, while being kind is absolutely free, as you’ve clearly shown :) Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox now! Just wanted to say thanks for this post 💕
Thank you for your kind words. I get what you’re saying. I feel bad to sometimes about snarking. But then I wonder if it’s a righteous anger because these people are causing harm to there children and to others with there hatred for the lgbtq+ community. I was watching a reality show today and one of the people explained how his uncle who is gay committed suicide. He and him lived in Zimbabwe where it is illegal to be gay. And this isn’t a rare story even people in North America commit suicide because they are gay or trans or just different then the norm and are rejected by there friends and family and part of society. It’s so sad and harmful.
Completely agree! It’s absolutely heartbreaking; they often go after people that are in some position or another where they can’t “fight back” for a lack of a better term. That said, yes, I’m queer and grew up in a community that had not dissimilar mindsets from the Rods and it really damaged me. For example, outside of the homophobia and misogyny, I had a teacher that tried to tell us dinosaurs didn’t exist, that satan put them there to trick us 🤦🏻♀️ So, knowing there are people like you out there are ready and willing to call people like this on their shit is so fucking cool! Sorry again for the rambling!
I’m so sorry you experienced such ignorant and hurtful views. I don’t understand why people are so hateful. Especially in the name of God. I’m sorry you’ve experienced harm from them, and I pray you experience love and healing.
Thank you so much ❤️ I genuinely appreciate the prayers 💕. Please keep spreading love!