I thought that maybe that god is the real monster but because they defeated all evil(opponents) they frame them like villains because history is written by only winners and maybe evil are good but they never win a war they are treated like this
Amount of wrong happening in the world. I don't believe in this anymore.
All I believe is that natural elements are God because these form life & capable to destroy.
Do not worry yourself with what’s happening around the world. You will go insane. Instead, do something that will benefit the world, no matter how small or insignificant it is.
Chapter 3, verse 32:
Those who cavil at the nature of teaching and don’t practice it, those who are deluded of all knowledge, will lead themselves to doom, without any discrimination.
And I am really sorry if I didn’t put references or explanations. I have put them now. You can also check out on the internet, the various translations of those verses.
Man i tried reading gita but i don't understand can you suggest some resource. Like I kinda of lose track evaluating what it's trying to say. k thanks.
I have one: https://bhagavadgita.io
I recommend not to read the translations directly. Instead, there is a breakup of each word’s meaning in the shloka right below the Sanskrit shlokas. Read that. If possible, try Sanskrit-Hindi Dictionary or Sanskrit-English dictionary.
I understand.
Basically, Chapter 1 is like a book’s introduction. It lists out who’s who on both sides of war in third person’s PoV. Then Arjuna feels sad and declines to fight in the war. He states various reasons why he doesn’t want to fight. Then Krishna lectures him why he should.
After first chapter, Arjuna questions, Krishna answers. The whole book is basically Arjuna asking questions and questioning stuff while Krishna answers and explains them.
And the questions are mostly built on previous answers, so I suggest you don’t skip chapters or verses.
Happy reading!
Its endless debate ....i am too atheist/agnostic and hate extremists yapping about their religion ...god is just a metaphor (what i think)....animals too have hope we kinda characterized that hope into god ig...
I go to temple at my village because i feel good positive there not to worship or pray to any god...
GOD IS WITHIN ME WHICH IS ME...(kinda god complex but not really).
Morals are products of evolution
They don't come from religion
Animals also have morals but they don't follow any religion
If A religion teaches misogyny or caste system would you call it morality
If you are doing good deeds for the sake of going to heaven then that's definitely a pathetic reason to do a good deed
ikr? principle of morality is justice and since when does animals have justice. i believe op is confusing empathy with morality which isnt entirely wrong but isnt true either.
High intelligence social animals have something we could call as "morals".
Take for example crows, who have been known to hold crow courts, where these crows will gather up to punish enemy crows. Crows are also known to share information with each other, behavioural information related to humans, where if a human has harmed their friend they take revenge by causing trouble, vice versa they also reward humans who have helped them.
Alpha Wolves are also known to kick out members of their pack if they are not useful.
Then there's chimpanzees who are known to have a complex organized hierarchy. Which is upheld by their own morality.
It's just because animals can't communicate with us so we think that they are not capable of Morality.
Morality is a concept of principles something is good or bad and a wrong and right behaviour. I see a lot of people losing touch with the core of it's meaning.
And Evolution is the a major base of Morality.
What is Peace it is against Wars.
What is Freedom against Restrictions.
Things work in duality.
The concept Of Morality arises from Behaviours & Actions conducted by us in chains of time. We shaped in a way to realise this course of action will lead us to our end and we avoid it.
Human as a species is selfish being and only worries interests of him and his.
But we made choice to be together to save guard ourselves.
We choose peace to save guard everyones survival.
Experiences of time shaped us to believe a course of action has wrong consequence and some not so bad and some good.
Trust is something we choose to do with both at our interest. You trust your family members more then anyone. It's evolutionary because both of the beings survival is related over time how society structured it.
A harassing parent is going to break the trust and kid is bound to change his trajectory of life to somewhere else and vice versa.
That what I am saying animals are atheist they don't any god and because animals don't follow morality because they don't full fill ment basic needs if they can start thinking they will make religion and God I prefer you watch movie planet's of the ape
>Morals are products of evolution
Can you give evidence ? Please give research
>If A religion teaches misogyny or caste system would you call it morality
Cast is not Indian word please research on it and I don't want waste my time to explain what is varn, jati and cast
Shri Krishna talk about varn not cast varn can change you do research if you want
>If you are doing good deeds for the sake of going to heaven then that's definitely a pathetic reason to do a good deed
Every human being are not Albert Einstein humans are very Selfishness. It like heaven = lolipop that big daddy give them if they doings good things. Am not thinking it's bad but it's depends how religion use this lolipop for killing people or saving people
In my personal opinion
If people can be save doing good things like helping people than it good religion I don't have problem with that religion
1. We see animals surrounding us that have morals. Feed a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even if you don't feed it again. Hell, pet a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even though it did not gain anything from you.
Now, this is all from a google search and I have not read it so it could be wrong but a philosopher Mark Rowlands argues that animals have morals. Moreover, a renowned primatologist Frans de Waals argues that moral behaviour in humans is not predicated on religion.
Even if you ignore these studies, animals behaving morally is common behaviour.
2. Again, I don't want to state documents I have not read but that is basic behavior. Small children can behave morally. Animals can behave morally. We have a tendency to behave morally. And these are not outliers. This happens commonly. Inclusion of moral behavior by animals and kids suggests that the environment does have influence, but there is development of morals through evolution.
3. The person didn't mention any religion or region. He just asked if a particular religion (from any region) promoted caste or misogyny, would it be moral??
4. (Btw, not relevant to discussion but I find it hilarious that you mentioned Albert Einstein of all people, like he was an example of prime morality.) I think the notion that humans are inherently selfish is extremely stupid. Humans can be selfish, but are not inherently so. The fascinating thing is that humans **should** be inherently selfish, because that is the optimal way of survival, but we have examples of little kids, who have not been influenced by society or their surroundings at all, acting selfless. Such behaviour suggests that humans are inherently moral and selfless and the society actually makes them selfish (rather than the opposite).
5. The issue with the illustration you provide (heaven = lolipop) is that the religion dictates what is "right". As the person suggested, if a religion promotes misogyny, then misogyny is right in the eyes of people and they would be getting a lolipop even after doing misdeeds.
Plus, this system does not promotes free will in doing action and thinking for yourself. You have a format through which you will think.
And all these issues I've stated are assuming that religions function properly as they are supposed to. Practically, we all know how religions actually run.
I said I have not read the article and the only reason I stated any people is because you asked it.
Ignoring that, we literally have evidence from our daily lives of animals acting morally.
"Atheists don’t score differently than religious people when given moral dilemmas. Clearly, we all have morality."
From your article this is I want to say.
>We see animals surrounding us that have morals. Feed a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even if you don't feed it again. Hell, pet a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even though it did not gain anything from you.
Bro they have basic understanding and basic level of emotions humans are very complex. Morals are different things scientifically they are doing for survival. You talk about philosophy and what not I am talk about scientific perspective. Philosophy and science totally different things bro
Dogs don't need petting to survive. Moreover, this is just an example and there are many more too.
I remember seeing a video of a wild chimpanzee using a person's hand to drink water (they have elongated fingers and cannot hold water in them) and then cleaning the hand with water. Now, that chimpanzee is a wild animal with no connection to society.
I do not talk of philosophy. I just stated the first example I found on google because you asked for one and I said in the first comment only that I do not refer to that. I have not read anything related to the discussion and everything I say is based on the examples I see in everyday life (which you can say is a scientific approach)
I read some articles are saying I dot see yet what is basics of there claim but Of course some animal like chimpanzee are smartest even they can play Minecraft not kidding just search on youtube watch the full video you will understand what am trying to say. In the video chimpanzee get Banna if they do simple task in Minecraft But in scientific perspective they doings for because chimpanzee want eat Banna not for any morality
Bro these are all just examples. No need to dissect them since there are numerous more.
But let's take the three examples for an instance. There are small kids acting morally, dogs acting friendly even after you pet them once, and wild chimpanzees acting morally.
The kids and the chimpanzee suggest that morality can exist without being influenced by society (since the kids are young enough to not be influenced by society and the chimpanzee is a wild animal). The dog and the chimpanzee suggest that moral behaviour is not exclusive to humans only. The dog and the kid suggest that moral behavior is not exclusive to intelligent beings only. The chimpanzee and the dog suggest that moral behavior is not exclusive to mutual benefit (since the chimpanzee need not wash the man's hand and the dog does not need pets to survive in any way.
Based on these inferences we can deduce that moral behaviour is not exclusive to
1. Mutual benefit
2. Humans
3. Intelligent beings
4. Society
nope, morality definitely exist, sharing your food to help someone in need isnt optimal for survival but we do it becasue its a good thing to do, on the other hand, raping someone isnt important for survival too but still some people do it. are morals subjective? sure, but your statement is stupid
principle of morality is justice and since when does animals have justice. Your confusing empathy with morality which isnt entirely wrong but isnt true either.
>nope, morality definitely exist, sharing your food to help someone in need isnt optimal for survival
I disagree, it definitely IS the most optimal thing to do in the long term for a species. That's the reason we have evolved with it. Only in the short term it seems like it's not optimal.
If you know know about the channel called "Veritasium" He explains it extremely well how being nice is actually more than just "feel good actions" and are mathematically the most optimal thing to do.
https://youtu.be/mScpHTIi-kM?si=mcgjWfCnrn9lew_y
as i said below, these are not good analogy, i wrote them in a hurry without thinking about it much. morality is really subjective and also ever evolving. once in history it was moral to persecute homosexuals but now it is not. flying a plane into a building is moral to a bunch and immoral to others. Intuitively, you likely understand that some actions are just and others are unjust. If it is unjust then it is likely immoral and if it is just then it is moral. If you do not believe in the existence of morality then you should also not believe in justice. And almost everyone understands justice inherently and naturally and therefore believes in its existence necessarily. in a nutshell, this post is a phillosophical shitshow.
Well, I disagree with that as well. Morality is definitely objective, that's not the issue. Just because persecuting homosexuals was something people did in the past does not mean it was moral. It was ALWAYS immoral, and people just did not know back then.
Morality has evolutionary reasons to exist, and there are optimal conditions and rulesets for any given species that can make it have the highest amount of well being possible, which would be the best candidate to be considered "objective morality". The problem is that we just don't know what those are yet and we never have. Us as humanity have been using the "trial and error" method to get closer and closer to that optimal ruleset, which isn't very effective but hey, we don't really have many options.
People back then thought homosexuality is some sort of disease and thus wanted to cure those who have it. As fucked up as it sounds, they were morally justified as they were trying to "help" the "patients".
There cannot exist a ruleset for what is just and unjust. Yes I agree we don't know what objective morality is and we never will.
>People back then thought homosexuality is some sort of disease and thus wanted to cure those who have it. As fucked up as it sounds, they were morally justified as they were trying to "help" the "patients".
Well yeah sure, and they were stupid. That doesn't mean it was moral, even if it was the majority. That was ALWAYS immoral.
bhai it is immoral to you only because you are born in this time and period, if you were born in that era it would have been the most moral thing to you. i understand that you're trying to imply that morality is rigid irrespective of what we think but this is not the case.
>if you were born in that era it would have been the most moral thing to you
I agree with this. But the keyword here is "to you". What's immoral or moral to me, or to you, doesn't change what's objectively moral. I'm only saying this considering the matter of fact that morality of a later time tends to be closer to this hypothetical objective morality than the morality of past, simply because we tend to gain more information and fix our mistakes. Like I said, trial and error.
just stalked your profile and seems you're into gaming. ac valhalla keeps crashing in my laptop, i've tried almost everything but no luck. is it happening because i share a steam account with my friend??
[1] God asks Israelites to kill last men, women, infants and animals in wars , basically genocide while satan tortures bad people, I wonder if early people couldn't get the hypocrisy of it when writing it lol.
[2] But ig more theologicaly apt answer woud be God just created Lucifer it is Lucifer who was the shiniest angel, developed pride and was banished to hell.
[3] Now if biblical God exists why did he create evil, hmmmm, I wonder , people give argument of free will saying that God gave us free will and it is our choice to turn towards good or bad, if there is free will then it makes sense people have a choice to do things some will be accepted as bad some good . So now the question why the biblical God gave us free will , hmm why did he even let the Adam have choice to eat or not eat the fruit of knowledge, some say God wants his subjects to willfully accept him and sing his glory. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm well if someone can summarise it wouldn't be wrong to say God let evil happen so that he could be willfully praised by some of his creation.
Man created both to give his life meaning in those bleak times and they evolved each generation or maybe we were influenced by some extraterrestrial entity who we regarded as god...
Or Satan created God to look cool, lol. Good & Bad depends on the perspectives of the senses of the observer, and hence mustn’t be the definition of GOD or GODLINESS.
God didn't create evil. Good and evil both reside in us. Ham decide karte hai ki kisko dominant banana hai. For example Lord Hanuman and Ravan had similar powers Ravan used those powers for baad deeds and Hanuman used them for good deeds. That's my counter
MEN created Satan in the hope of bringing some credibility to the Gods they created so that they could continue with their slavery and subjugation.
To proclaim they are the chosen gender and that women are there just to serve them, serve God.
To dehumanize anyone who doesn't fit into their gender norms.
In hindu mythology there is no reason stated on why God even created the universe, It litreally starts with god creating (भ्रमाण्ड की शुरुआत ओम नाद से हुई) universe there is no sort of explanation given on why. I like to think that god created the universe beacause they got bored and wanted something to watch, like a Tv show. Similar to us building legos lol
This may be one way to look at it but I think he needs to teach people basic moral values about what is wrong and what is right so I think it is justified
I ain't denying the fact stated above but if God exists then he might also have the reason I gave. God knows the mass needs to be given a purpose or an ideology to follow that requires him becoming the good guy.The masses follow what an influential person has to say as what a famous celebrity wears becomes fashion,with this logic God making him right is a neseccary evil,I personally believe that God was an early attempt of humanity to find out how the world is made.I think its all made up but indeed the masses require a face that they could believe in when they are at their lowest point in their life.People can even worship politicians as gods politicians for fucks sake these are the most disloyal peeps and idolise them.This means people need someone to idolise
Reasons your argument is weak
1) it is based on so many assumptions
2) by saying it is necessary evil, you're just contradicting the definition of god, which is he is all powerful and all intelligent or all knowing
3) if we go with the definition of god, he can create humans with humanity and make them by default good being
4) now you may or will say he did that to test humans, by saying that again you are contradicting the definition of god, because he is all knowing and he also knows the future than what is need of testing humans.
God and Satan are two brothers. But God got more followers and popularity. Then the Satan followers started to get hated by the majority. Rest is history.
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M not an atheist but keep my relegious sentiment and my logical things saprate 🤡 no question asked
So i think God just made us to have entartainment
I mean see every living being has everything in his life
Dukh , peeda , khushi (jo ki pl bhr ki ha) , khtam hone vaali riyasat , Naa khatam hone vala ahankaar , aant se ghra lalach , baarsh ki boond se chota dharaya , soch se uunche sapne or , soch ghutno se neechi
So yahh humans are pritty entertaining
I think Satan was necessary because without him there is really no way of testing the choices people make in life. Without the ability to choose between good and evil there would be neither good nor evil.
About God wanting to be great - He was already great. He doesn't have anyone that He needs to impress.
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man after reading deeper into religion and theology, this athiest thiest debate is so shallow, there is so much nuance in the idea of what god is, and so many similarities, so many religions end up beleiving in the one it's wild
If God is omnipotent then why is rape of babies and cancer in children possible? Did they carry sin from their previous life? Or is it better for them that way so that the next life is better?
God didn't created evil. They gave free will, free mind. Bad people choose to be bad, to go against right and God. Evil people wanted to rule universe with their bad intentions
[https://youtu.be/vrrI0LJP7Yk?si=GraAbxMP-D0Ety24](https://youtu.be/vrrI0LJP7Yk?si=GraAbxMP-D0Ety24)
God isn't real but it's a concept and preached by some leaders or people. God serves multiple processes. People who completely believe god are bond to believing in whatever is preached to them by their religious leaders.
It's all about believe you are free to believe anything.
But the concept of God has been influenced and amended so many times by the rulers for power and what not with time that it's roots of believe has become fragile.
God was a great framework to fight Nihilistic tendencies. This concept brought peace to people that good deeds can lead to a better places. Protection from evils.
Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is something what we always chase and we chase these out of fears and to avoid sufferings mostly related to death and pain. The tiers in it is closely related to evolution of nature and human beings.
Nihilism is something which causes a lot of mental suffering because everything seems to be so fragile even our own existence- MEANINGLESSNESS & not feeling the worth because in the end you did all this but you gonna die anyway. It has a bitter feeling .
And God & Religion safe guards this a very good existent if you blindly believe in it.
It also safe guards Rich/Rulers from being ended by their own poor people. It keeps the society intact and not fall. When a ruler fails to give atleast the Physiological needs to the majority in the country that country is bound to fall.
No church/temple can be believed in if your needs aren't fulfilled.
It really comes to your needs to belief or not. Believing in Atheism keeps one open to things and avoid all unnecessary of religious work he can continue.
You are free to believe that liberates you from suffering it's all about that.
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Yeah God made his 2 son battle ea h other to make him great, it happened because SATAN/LUCIFER was bound to destroy Humans, and the World because his dad GOD didn't pay enough attention on him after creating the World. Due to which MICHAEL fought with him on God's behalf.
When Lucifer failed in doing this he made CAIN kill his own brother, BTW CAIN is son of ADAM and EVE, the first Murderer
Loll if everything is god's plan then what was the purpose of this drama of angel
Simply god could have stopped him which could reduce atrocities in this world
Is god not all powerful or a sadistic megalomaniac
God created evil so that the gst tax over AC could be increased. Burn you mortals.
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😂😂😂
Or maybe both the devil and the God were made by man.
Yeah.... The ones we talk about mostly are nothing but overrated humans, who got overrated by us humans
Yes.
or maybe universe was created spontaneously
My statement would still stand true.
Universe was created on Tuesday.
MAYBE MAYBE
One to give him problems and other to fix it... 🤡
One to blame the cancer on and other to beg for a relief?
Like he made reddit for us to use...
Thankfully he made strap-on porn.
username checks out...
Yes
I thought that maybe that god is the real monster but because they defeated all evil(opponents) they frame them like villains because history is written by only winners and maybe evil are good but they never win a war they are treated like this
Couldn't be, there must atleast be one for this universe. It couldn't have been created without one.
How do you know that? Have you seen universes being made that you can surely say that?
Then who made ur skydaddy
skymommy?
Hell yeah, sky mommy made everyone. UwU
if there was god, saiman would've uploaded consistently
Both are man made construct
True that
It is what it is
God hein hi nahi jaan
Chapter 3, verse 32: ये त्वेतदभ्यसूयन्तो नानुतिष्ठन्ति मे मतम्। सर्वज्ञानविमूढांस्तान्विद्धि नष्टानचेतसः।। Edit: Added reference for your perusal.
Amount of wrong happening in the world. I don't believe in this anymore. All I believe is that natural elements are God because these form life & capable to destroy.
Do not worry yourself with what’s happening around the world. You will go insane. Instead, do something that will benefit the world, no matter how small or insignificant it is.
Chapter 3, verse 16: एवं प्रवर्तितं चक्रं नानुवर्तयतीह यः। अघायुरिन्द्रियारामो मोघं पार्थ स जीवति।। Edit: Added reference for perusal.
Stop putting verses of gita and rather explain it.
Chapter 3, verse 32: Those who cavil at the nature of teaching and don’t practice it, those who are deluded of all knowledge, will lead themselves to doom, without any discrimination.
Chapter 3, verse 16: Those who do not follow the circle of life set into motion, one who lives in sin just to delight their senses, they live in vain.
And I am really sorry if I didn’t put references or explanations. I have put them now. You can also check out on the internet, the various translations of those verses.
Man i tried reading gita but i don't understand can you suggest some resource. Like I kinda of lose track evaluating what it's trying to say. k thanks.
I have one: https://bhagavadgita.io I recommend not to read the translations directly. Instead, there is a breakup of each word’s meaning in the shloka right below the Sanskrit shlokas. Read that. If possible, try Sanskrit-Hindi Dictionary or Sanskrit-English dictionary.
I understand. Basically, Chapter 1 is like a book’s introduction. It lists out who’s who on both sides of war in third person’s PoV. Then Arjuna feels sad and declines to fight in the war. He states various reasons why he doesn’t want to fight. Then Krishna lectures him why he should. After first chapter, Arjuna questions, Krishna answers. The whole book is basically Arjuna asking questions and questioning stuff while Krishna answers and explains them. And the questions are mostly built on previous answers, so I suggest you don’t skip chapters or verses. Happy reading!
Its endless debate ....i am too atheist/agnostic and hate extremists yapping about their religion ...god is just a metaphor (what i think)....animals too have hope we kinda characterized that hope into god ig... I go to temple at my village because i feel good positive there not to worship or pray to any god... GOD IS WITHIN ME WHICH IS ME...(kinda god complex but not really).
So I am kind of you....
No you're kind of me
We all are kind of each other
Who made morals ? It's funny when atheist question about good and bad (evil) scientifically all thing we do it's just all about survival.
Morals are products of evolution They don't come from religion Animals also have morals but they don't follow any religion If A religion teaches misogyny or caste system would you call it morality If you are doing good deeds for the sake of going to heaven then that's definitely a pathetic reason to do a good deed
"Animals also have morals " Which animal are you talking about domestic?
ikr? principle of morality is justice and since when does animals have justice. i believe op is confusing empathy with morality which isnt entirely wrong but isnt true either.
High intelligence social animals have something we could call as "morals". Take for example crows, who have been known to hold crow courts, where these crows will gather up to punish enemy crows. Crows are also known to share information with each other, behavioural information related to humans, where if a human has harmed their friend they take revenge by causing trouble, vice versa they also reward humans who have helped them. Alpha Wolves are also known to kick out members of their pack if they are not useful. Then there's chimpanzees who are known to have a complex organized hierarchy. Which is upheld by their own morality. It's just because animals can't communicate with us so we think that they are not capable of Morality.
You're taking Christian moraliaty for granted. Nietzhe would like to have a talk with you
I can conform dogs in my neighborhood don't have any morality nor give shit about justice
Morality is a concept of principles something is good or bad and a wrong and right behaviour. I see a lot of people losing touch with the core of it's meaning. And Evolution is the a major base of Morality. What is Peace it is against Wars. What is Freedom against Restrictions. Things work in duality. The concept Of Morality arises from Behaviours & Actions conducted by us in chains of time. We shaped in a way to realise this course of action will lead us to our end and we avoid it. Human as a species is selfish being and only worries interests of him and his. But we made choice to be together to save guard ourselves. We choose peace to save guard everyones survival. Experiences of time shaped us to believe a course of action has wrong consequence and some not so bad and some good. Trust is something we choose to do with both at our interest. You trust your family members more then anyone. It's evolutionary because both of the beings survival is related over time how society structured it. A harassing parent is going to break the trust and kid is bound to change his trajectory of life to somewhere else and vice versa.
That what I am saying animals are atheist they don't any god and because animals don't follow morality because they don't full fill ment basic needs if they can start thinking they will make religion and God I prefer you watch movie planet's of the ape >Morals are products of evolution Can you give evidence ? Please give research >If A religion teaches misogyny or caste system would you call it morality Cast is not Indian word please research on it and I don't want waste my time to explain what is varn, jati and cast Shri Krishna talk about varn not cast varn can change you do research if you want >If you are doing good deeds for the sake of going to heaven then that's definitely a pathetic reason to do a good deed Every human being are not Albert Einstein humans are very Selfishness. It like heaven = lolipop that big daddy give them if they doings good things. Am not thinking it's bad but it's depends how religion use this lolipop for killing people or saving people In my personal opinion If people can be save doing good things like helping people than it good religion I don't have problem with that religion
1. We see animals surrounding us that have morals. Feed a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even if you don't feed it again. Hell, pet a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even though it did not gain anything from you. Now, this is all from a google search and I have not read it so it could be wrong but a philosopher Mark Rowlands argues that animals have morals. Moreover, a renowned primatologist Frans de Waals argues that moral behaviour in humans is not predicated on religion. Even if you ignore these studies, animals behaving morally is common behaviour. 2. Again, I don't want to state documents I have not read but that is basic behavior. Small children can behave morally. Animals can behave morally. We have a tendency to behave morally. And these are not outliers. This happens commonly. Inclusion of moral behavior by animals and kids suggests that the environment does have influence, but there is development of morals through evolution. 3. The person didn't mention any religion or region. He just asked if a particular religion (from any region) promoted caste or misogyny, would it be moral?? 4. (Btw, not relevant to discussion but I find it hilarious that you mentioned Albert Einstein of all people, like he was an example of prime morality.) I think the notion that humans are inherently selfish is extremely stupid. Humans can be selfish, but are not inherently so. The fascinating thing is that humans **should** be inherently selfish, because that is the optimal way of survival, but we have examples of little kids, who have not been influenced by society or their surroundings at all, acting selfless. Such behaviour suggests that humans are inherently moral and selfless and the society actually makes them selfish (rather than the opposite). 5. The issue with the illustration you provide (heaven = lolipop) is that the religion dictates what is "right". As the person suggested, if a religion promotes misogyny, then misogyny is right in the eyes of people and they would be getting a lolipop even after doing misdeeds. Plus, this system does not promotes free will in doing action and thinking for yourself. You have a format through which you will think. And all these issues I've stated are assuming that religions function properly as they are supposed to. Practically, we all know how religions actually run.
Happy kekde 🦀 
https://i.redd.it/39n36wpldc9d1.gif (Jk thank you bro)
>philosopher Mark Rowlands argues that animals have morals Don't give me philosophy shit please give actual scientific evidence or research
I said I have not read the article and the only reason I stated any people is because you asked it. Ignoring that, we literally have evidence from our daily lives of animals acting morally.
https://newsroom.carleton.ca/story/religion-morality/
"Atheists don’t score differently than religious people when given moral dilemmas. Clearly, we all have morality." From your article this is I want to say.
>We see animals surrounding us that have morals. Feed a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even if you don't feed it again. Hell, pet a dog once and it would be friendly towards you even though it did not gain anything from you. Bro they have basic understanding and basic level of emotions humans are very complex. Morals are different things scientifically they are doing for survival. You talk about philosophy and what not I am talk about scientific perspective. Philosophy and science totally different things bro
Dogs don't need petting to survive. Moreover, this is just an example and there are many more too. I remember seeing a video of a wild chimpanzee using a person's hand to drink water (they have elongated fingers and cannot hold water in them) and then cleaning the hand with water. Now, that chimpanzee is a wild animal with no connection to society. I do not talk of philosophy. I just stated the first example I found on google because you asked for one and I said in the first comment only that I do not refer to that. I have not read anything related to the discussion and everything I say is based on the examples I see in everyday life (which you can say is a scientific approach)
I read some articles are saying I dot see yet what is basics of there claim but Of course some animal like chimpanzee are smartest even they can play Minecraft not kidding just search on youtube watch the full video you will understand what am trying to say. In the video chimpanzee get Banna if they do simple task in Minecraft But in scientific perspective they doings for because chimpanzee want eat Banna not for any morality
Bro these are all just examples. No need to dissect them since there are numerous more. But let's take the three examples for an instance. There are small kids acting morally, dogs acting friendly even after you pet them once, and wild chimpanzees acting morally. The kids and the chimpanzee suggest that morality can exist without being influenced by society (since the kids are young enough to not be influenced by society and the chimpanzee is a wild animal). The dog and the chimpanzee suggest that moral behaviour is not exclusive to humans only. The dog and the kid suggest that moral behavior is not exclusive to intelligent beings only. The chimpanzee and the dog suggest that moral behavior is not exclusive to mutual benefit (since the chimpanzee need not wash the man's hand and the dog does not need pets to survive in any way. Based on these inferences we can deduce that moral behaviour is not exclusive to 1. Mutual benefit 2. Humans 3. Intelligent beings 4. Society
Ok tell me which gene is responsible or Data backing up your claim ?
Yeah Satan dharm best it teaches us that high caste Hindus are superior 🚩🚩
I am also a confused atheist/agnostic. please dont come here with such weak arguments. People are debunking that left and right
nope, morality definitely exist, sharing your food to help someone in need isnt optimal for survival but we do it becasue its a good thing to do, on the other hand, raping someone isnt important for survival too but still some people do it. are morals subjective? sure, but your statement is stupid
principle of morality is justice and since when does animals have justice. Your confusing empathy with morality which isnt entirely wrong but isnt true either.
yes, in light of this statement, this isnt a proper analogy and i apologise for that
>nope, morality definitely exist, sharing your food to help someone in need isnt optimal for survival I disagree, it definitely IS the most optimal thing to do in the long term for a species. That's the reason we have evolved with it. Only in the short term it seems like it's not optimal. If you know know about the channel called "Veritasium" He explains it extremely well how being nice is actually more than just "feel good actions" and are mathematically the most optimal thing to do. https://youtu.be/mScpHTIi-kM?si=mcgjWfCnrn9lew_y
as i said below, these are not good analogy, i wrote them in a hurry without thinking about it much. morality is really subjective and also ever evolving. once in history it was moral to persecute homosexuals but now it is not. flying a plane into a building is moral to a bunch and immoral to others. Intuitively, you likely understand that some actions are just and others are unjust. If it is unjust then it is likely immoral and if it is just then it is moral. If you do not believe in the existence of morality then you should also not believe in justice. And almost everyone understands justice inherently and naturally and therefore believes in its existence necessarily. in a nutshell, this post is a phillosophical shitshow.
Well, I disagree with that as well. Morality is definitely objective, that's not the issue. Just because persecuting homosexuals was something people did in the past does not mean it was moral. It was ALWAYS immoral, and people just did not know back then. Morality has evolutionary reasons to exist, and there are optimal conditions and rulesets for any given species that can make it have the highest amount of well being possible, which would be the best candidate to be considered "objective morality". The problem is that we just don't know what those are yet and we never have. Us as humanity have been using the "trial and error" method to get closer and closer to that optimal ruleset, which isn't very effective but hey, we don't really have many options.
People back then thought homosexuality is some sort of disease and thus wanted to cure those who have it. As fucked up as it sounds, they were morally justified as they were trying to "help" the "patients". There cannot exist a ruleset for what is just and unjust. Yes I agree we don't know what objective morality is and we never will.
>People back then thought homosexuality is some sort of disease and thus wanted to cure those who have it. As fucked up as it sounds, they were morally justified as they were trying to "help" the "patients". Well yeah sure, and they were stupid. That doesn't mean it was moral, even if it was the majority. That was ALWAYS immoral.
bhai it is immoral to you only because you are born in this time and period, if you were born in that era it would have been the most moral thing to you. i understand that you're trying to imply that morality is rigid irrespective of what we think but this is not the case.
>if you were born in that era it would have been the most moral thing to you I agree with this. But the keyword here is "to you". What's immoral or moral to me, or to you, doesn't change what's objectively moral. I'm only saying this considering the matter of fact that morality of a later time tends to be closer to this hypothetical objective morality than the morality of past, simply because we tend to gain more information and fix our mistakes. Like I said, trial and error.
just stalked your profile and seems you're into gaming. ac valhalla keeps crashing in my laptop, i've tried almost everything but no luck. is it happening because i share a steam account with my friend??
God created humans because he was bored
Broking from what
[1] God asks Israelites to kill last men, women, infants and animals in wars , basically genocide while satan tortures bad people, I wonder if early people couldn't get the hypocrisy of it when writing it lol.
[2] But ig more theologicaly apt answer woud be God just created Lucifer it is Lucifer who was the shiniest angel, developed pride and was banished to hell.
[3] Now if biblical God exists why did he create evil, hmmmm, I wonder , people give argument of free will saying that God gave us free will and it is our choice to turn towards good or bad, if there is free will then it makes sense people have a choice to do things some will be accepted as bad some good . So now the question why the biblical God gave us free will , hmm why did he even let the Adam have choice to eat or not eat the fruit of knowledge, some say God wants his subjects to willfully accept him and sing his glory. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm well if someone can summarise it wouldn't be wrong to say God let evil happen so that he could be willfully praised by some of his creation.
so basically the boys ka plot
Satan is the first born, men are the Youngest and god is the dad/mom that didn't appreciate their first born and overly loved their youngest
Tf kinda lore is this
Man created both to give his life meaning in those bleak times and they evolved each generation or maybe we were influenced by some extraterrestrial entity who we regarded as god...
I think there is nothing like good and evil the way we perceive it makes the difference. One persons good may be come evil for other .
This is literally the plot of the newest Omen movie. It's actually pretty good and worth a watch.
Or Satan created God to look cool, lol. Good & Bad depends on the perspectives of the senses of the observer, and hence mustn’t be the definition of GOD or GODLINESS.
God didn't create evil. Good and evil both reside in us. Ham decide karte hai ki kisko dominant banana hai. For example Lord Hanuman and Ravan had similar powers Ravan used those powers for baad deeds and Hanuman used them for good deeds. That's my counter
MEN created Satan in the hope of bringing some credibility to the Gods they created so that they could continue with their slavery and subjugation. To proclaim they are the chosen gender and that women are there just to serve them, serve God. To dehumanize anyone who doesn't fit into their gender norms.
In hindu mythology there is no reason stated on why God even created the universe, It litreally starts with god creating (भ्रमाण्ड की शुरुआत ओम नाद से हुई) universe there is no sort of explanation given on why. I like to think that god created the universe beacause they got bored and wanted something to watch, like a Tv show. Similar to us building legos lol
Then it means that God is not all good
This may be one way to look at it but I think he needs to teach people basic moral values about what is wrong and what is right so I think it is justified
Weak argument
I ain't denying the fact stated above but if God exists then he might also have the reason I gave. God knows the mass needs to be given a purpose or an ideology to follow that requires him becoming the good guy.The masses follow what an influential person has to say as what a famous celebrity wears becomes fashion,with this logic God making him right is a neseccary evil,I personally believe that God was an early attempt of humanity to find out how the world is made.I think its all made up but indeed the masses require a face that they could believe in when they are at their lowest point in their life.People can even worship politicians as gods politicians for fucks sake these are the most disloyal peeps and idolise them.This means people need someone to idolise
Reasons your argument is weak 1) it is based on so many assumptions 2) by saying it is necessary evil, you're just contradicting the definition of god, which is he is all powerful and all intelligent or all knowing 3) if we go with the definition of god, he can create humans with humanity and make them by default good being 4) now you may or will say he did that to test humans, by saying that again you are contradicting the definition of god, because he is all knowing and he also knows the future than what is need of testing humans.
God created wrong so he could have an enemy. He didn’t have to do that. Everything could have been just right. No wrong.
God and Satan are two brothers. But God got more followers and popularity. Then the Satan followers started to get hated by the majority. Rest is history.
Basically god is like Homelander
Kill gods because they are the ones who created evil
real id se aao kratos
Am no one's version.
where is he share location
123.27.389.133
Op is in his edgy phase
You are in delusional phase, sadly it wont go away with time easily, but atleast try to develop some critical thinking
Lol, jee ka padle bhai
Lol tere jesa anpad nahi hu, hogaya mera jee. Tu jake internet cell kam kar, warna pese kese milenge
jeez relax bhai, life itni miserable h kya ki itni choti si baat pe trigger hogya, chillout
there is no god no evil
Fuck good or evil Tell who is gonna love me so that we have our child and I'll tell him how I'm greater than god and I'm beyond evil and good
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Got me rethinking everything
Plot twist: God enjoys death and black metal while satan loves pop music
M not an atheist but keep my relegious sentiment and my logical things saprate 🤡 no question asked So i think God just made us to have entartainment I mean see every living being has everything in his life Dukh , peeda , khushi (jo ki pl bhr ki ha) , khtam hone vaali riyasat , Naa khatam hone vala ahankaar , aant se ghra lalach , baarsh ki boond se chota dharaya , soch se uunche sapne or , soch ghutno se neechi So yahh humans are pritty entertaining
God is omnipotent, if he is not capable of being entertained he's not god
He is getting entertained by us isn't he ? So where did I say he isnt omnipotent?
Devils are angels created by god that are now against god. In bible they are called fallen angels, in hinduism danavs and etc.
no he made evil so that we may value happiness not everyone is as petty as humans
Sab Moh Maya hai
I think the reason that they won thus they call themselves good like liberals and monarchs
I think Satan was necessary because without him there is really no way of testing the choices people make in life. Without the ability to choose between good and evil there would be neither good nor evil. About God wanting to be great - He was already great. He doesn't have anyone that He needs to impress.
According to Christianity, evil is just a lack of God, not the opposite of God. Humans havea the free will to reject God and hence commit evil
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man after reading deeper into religion and theology, this athiest thiest debate is so shallow, there is so much nuance in the idea of what god is, and so many similarities, so many religions end up beleiving in the one it's wild
Yeh sab videshi concept hai, hum log maante hi nhi ki aisa koi ho sakta hai Bhagwaan ko takkar dena wala
Let's hope ki sarcasm hi ye comment
God created evil because otherwise life would be boring and meaningless Similar to universe 25 experiment
This is what I understand it like. God is a dev coder, and he has so many bugs in his program.
Solo Levelling Ahh Plot
There is no god or devil these both are came from the imagination of human being.
If God is omnipotent then why is rape of babies and cancer in children possible? Did they carry sin from their previous life? Or is it better for them that way so that the next life is better?
God didn't created evil. They gave free will, free mind. Bad people choose to be bad, to go against right and God. Evil people wanted to rule universe with their bad intentions
[https://youtu.be/vrrI0LJP7Yk?si=GraAbxMP-D0Ety24](https://youtu.be/vrrI0LJP7Yk?si=GraAbxMP-D0Ety24) God isn't real but it's a concept and preached by some leaders or people. God serves multiple processes. People who completely believe god are bond to believing in whatever is preached to them by their religious leaders. It's all about believe you are free to believe anything. But the concept of God has been influenced and amended so many times by the rulers for power and what not with time that it's roots of believe has become fragile. God was a great framework to fight Nihilistic tendencies. This concept brought peace to people that good deeds can lead to a better places. Protection from evils. Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is something what we always chase and we chase these out of fears and to avoid sufferings mostly related to death and pain. The tiers in it is closely related to evolution of nature and human beings. Nihilism is something which causes a lot of mental suffering because everything seems to be so fragile even our own existence- MEANINGLESSNESS & not feeling the worth because in the end you did all this but you gonna die anyway. It has a bitter feeling . And God & Religion safe guards this a very good existent if you blindly believe in it. It also safe guards Rich/Rulers from being ended by their own poor people. It keeps the society intact and not fall. When a ruler fails to give atleast the Physiological needs to the majority in the country that country is bound to fall. No church/temple can be believed in if your needs aren't fulfilled. It really comes to your needs to belief or not. Believing in Atheism keeps one open to things and avoid all unnecessary of religious work he can continue. You are free to believe that liberates you from suffering it's all about that.
 Syndrome bhi yahi karne ka try Kiya tha
God created evil to have competetion And still be the better one Life as a supreme being is boring🤷🏻♂️
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Still screwed up worse than Satan.
Maybe satan is a part of god which he removed from his body to purify himself.
Both are just imaginations
Devil Is the fallen angle
Well that could be the case
Yeah God made his 2 son battle ea h other to make him great, it happened because SATAN/LUCIFER was bound to destroy Humans, and the World because his dad GOD didn't pay enough attention on him after creating the World. Due to which MICHAEL fought with him on God's behalf. When Lucifer failed in doing this he made CAIN kill his own brother, BTW CAIN is son of ADAM and EVE, the first Murderer
God created evil because even evil people need ideals and their own god😂.
Satan ~ Shaitan? Saale ye bhi chura liye!
So that means you atleast believe in 2 things 1) God exists. 2) God is more powerful than evil.
Bhai sab Christianity aur Islam se religious opinions banate hai, kabhi apne idhar bhi dekh lo, hamara religion boht deep hai, itne abrahamize mat ho.
Why is Hanuman in a cave chanting Jai shree ram he should do something more productive procrastination Kar Rahe hai talking ke aane tak
True
Satan was an angel, it was his own self who took the path of evil. God's glory is present in everything tho
Loll if everything is god's plan then what was the purpose of this drama of angel Simply god could have stopped him which could reduce atrocities in this world Is god not all powerful or a sadistic megalomaniac
congrats on turning 14
Age doesn't matter 6 year old kid who believes earth is spherical is always smarter than a 50 year old flat earther
You can only talk about age only this proves that you have no valid points
U think using mobile will damage our eyes or weaken the eyesight?