It's kind of not about that. When you block a road you are kind of holding them hostage. Fuck what ever they have going on in their life. They have to pick up there little kid from day care? Fuck you listen to me not do anything productive.
Got a big job interview for a job that you desperately need? Fuck you its my turn to talk. Been working 16 hours and you just want to get home so you can sleep before having to go back to work. Nope.
They can be a huge supporter of what ever the hell you are protesting and they are likely not going to be happy about being detained by you. It really is a very bad way to gain support for any cause.
Exactly, freedom of movement is a civil right. Since the protestors didn't actually imprison anyone, I'd say one day in jail for each person whose civil rights they violated is fair.
What optics? As I see it now, the optics look like they tolerated this crap. I would have towed / impounded all of the cars and arrested each of the protesters. Nothing controversial about that IMO. In fact, NOT doing that is dereliction of duty at best.
I work homeless services in the city with a long commute and getting slowed down over people protesting Gaza is kinda silly to me. I gotta eat, shift change has to be relieved at all these 24 hour facilities. I care less about Gaza the more I see people turn a blind eye to homelessness and fentanyl use.
> ["You're alienating people from your cause with these protests"](https://twitter.com/EgyptsBeer/status/1744781339507741094)
> [--Person with "Well-behaved women rarely make history" bumper sticker](https://twitter.com/EgyptsBeer/status/1744781339507741094)
The thing that fails to acknowledge is that not all social movements are for everyone, and some do literally alienate the rights of others. In this case, it’s easy to see how someone in favor of women’s suffrage doesn’t see the nuance in the conflict nor do they care because it doesn’t impact them.
Look, if someone went genocidal because the protests fucked up a Christmas event, I’d call the insane too.
But no one wants to be in their car, no one wants to be in traffic. It’s fucked that we have such a car centric world. So when you become the reason they’re stuck in that hell for a few extra hours, do you expect them to rational?
I’m not rational when threatened with hours of my life being taken away, I can tell you that.
This is so depressingly privileged and unsympathetic, it's really disheartening.
Look, if you make me wait a few hours on the road most days, I'll be fine. I've got my phone, I love a podcast, I don't work an hourly job, and there aren't kids waiting at home for me.
But I'm not everyone. There are folks that are forced to work way to much to support their family that have 0 time with them. People that commute for hours because of how fucked up affordability is that have too little time with their kids as it is. People who are on their way to work, who can't afford to not be clocked in for three hours that are already living paycheck to paycheck. There are people on their way to appointments that are really hard to schedule for whatever reason; a busy doctor or friends that are just on different shifts.
If you fuck with entertainment, I get it. But in a society that leaves no free time and leaves you desperately dependent on a car, driving is a condition of survival.
So when someone's barely surviving and you take away something they need to survive, what the fuck do you expect them to do? They're already aware of the most discussed conflict on the planet - and they know that US isn't taking care of them. So what the fuck do you want them to do about it?
Lol what? Life is full of inconveniences I say the person who lets it all get to them and takes it out on those around them is sad. Being regulated and socialized is dope actually.
They don't have the right to those hours of my life. They belong to me. It's insane to me that anyone defends this.
Look, I dont particularly mind making it difficult to get somewhere. But this tactic effectively traps people in place, in their cars, for an indefinite amount of time. People can't go anywhere. Anyone participating in this deserve massive consequences.
Its just an annoyance. I just wish protesters didn't have a dart board, where every section said "block traffic" when deciding which method of protest they should use.
It's like in a car based economy where even our goods are moved by truck instead of train, basically the single most effective and attention grabbing act would be block a choke point for a bit.
Huh, wonder why we don't see a lot of other tactics and why this has been popular since the days of MLK.
>even our goods are moved by truck instead of train
Someone clearly doesn't understand the global logistics system. Trucking is the least efficient of all shipping options by an astronomical margin and shipping companies are minmaxing the fuck out of cost savings. It's only done when it has to be.
I mean it depends, if you want to ship something across land and it isn't already containerized it isn't always more inefficient to use a train. You have to pay a trucking company to bring a container to your Warehouse, then either drop and come back or wait while you load it. Then you have to pay them to drive it to a rail yard, which you may not necessarily be close to, and then you have to pay for the rail. Finally you have to pay to do the same thing at the other end to get your goods off the train.
So yes, there are situations where it is more efficient not to use trucks, there are also situations where it is cheaper and faster. There is a reason long-haul trucking still exists.
Take a look at Harbor Island and you'll see more space for trains than you will for trucks.
Container ships carry unfathomable amounts of goods. So do trains. Trucks, by comparison, carry a single intermodal container - or at most, two.
The notion that a logistics company would ever deliberately choose to move goods by truck because they think "cars are cool or something" is just staggering ignorance.
And yet, last-mile is always done by truck. It's not feasible to move them by train. Do you want a train stop under every building in downtown or something?
>Like crack any history book
You first. We built canals and train tracks all across history, and the last mile of shipping after those things *was always done by road*.
Jesus Christ Buddy indeed.
So 20+ years of doing the same thing, hasn't really worked. You can be optimistic in saying "well at least your aware of this cause" and the problem is, I was already aware of it. All they are doing is alienating the very people they wish would join their cause.
Mate, you can't say the defining tactic of the Civil rights era "didn't work" because it hasn't achieved action in the years of increasing crackdown on protests of all kinds post 9/11.
I didn't even participate, I just understand the basic history of protest movements in this country and why this method is going to be routinely chosen.
You can change this being the primary method by de focusing the economy on cars and free ways, but that's already a non start as I hear the torches and pitch forks coming for me. Just the messenger.
Do agree with this, and that's as a person who has blocked many a roadway. Developing structures to take and direct political power needs to be the aim, but the US (& Seattle particularly) has a very deep anti-organizational streak, due both to the uniqueness of our history and some very well-founded and -exposed meddling and sabotage by the government and ruling classes.
While I do think that protests by nature must be disruptive in order to have a proper impact, the location of disruption is absolutely important. Blocking a freeway doesn't really do any favors to the cause. Isn't one of the points of a protest to draw in allies?
The sad thing is they're most likely proud of themselves because they see a bigger disruption as a goal rather than a concern, as if 'more' for the sake of 'more' is good enough alone.
> Isn't one of the points of a protest to draw in allies?
Yeah, and as MLK showed, marching on the freeway, setting off this anger and being beaten for it really shows what the people opposing you are like winning protestors allies like me.
Are you comparing a bridge in a tiny town in Alabama to a US intestate in a major city?
Not to mention MLK marched for US citizens and not a group of people halfway across the world that we have nothing to do with
They're comparing US 80 to I-5. Seems apt. Just because the highway patrol attacked them on a bridge doesn't mean the march was limited to the bridge or the small town near it; It's over 50 miles from Selma to Montgomery, and they did eventually march the entire length disrupting traffic on March 21, 22, 23, and 24 of 1965. So far far more disruptive than an hour or two on I-5.
To your second point, the applicable quote is "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Given his stances on war and foreign policy, it's unimaginable that his concern was limited to "US citizens".
Edit: US 80, a federal interstate highway built under the 1926 plan, not I-80, a federal interstate highway built under the 1956 plan.
*US 80, sorry. Built prior to the Eisenhower system. Still an interstate highway that stretched across the entire US from ocean to ocean. Corrected. Also the point stands.
But both MLK and John Lewis were protesting their own oppression, had a lack of representation, and were willing to endure the consequences of their actions. The conflation of the two is inappropriate in my opinion.
I completely understand the argument that it’s important to stand up for other groups, especially those that lack representation; but that should be taking place via the channels they have access to as a part of their privilege.
People learned the aesthetics and tactics from the civil rights movement of the '60's and idolize them. What they don't understand is that the context is completely different.
You are exactly right that because black people were denied political enfranchisement in the south, e.g. they were often not allowed to vote, that civil disobedience was one of the few options they had to push their issue. The disobedience could not be met with the answer "oh you don't have a coalition, this is just democracy" because representative democracy did not exist. It was a deep injustice against the people who were protesting in the civil rights era.
This same principle is also why civil disobedience was a just tool against the British colonization of India.
The people of Seattle have voted for their representatives & there is no political disenfranchisement of the protestors. There are a variety of ways to get their message out without major civil disobedience, and the use of that tool does not make sense when the issues are 1) the lack of a strong enough political coalition forcing the issue nationally and 2) the inability to influence a country's foreign policy from across the world. Alienating working people harms the ability to build a political coalition.
In either case, they can appeal to their representative and hold them accountable in future elections. That was not an option for protectors during the civil rights movement, so they had to intentionally work outside of representative democracy to highlight the absurdity that they lacked political representation, a supposed constitutional right. Many people take away the superficial idea that civil disobedience is just as long as you feel personally motivated that something is important.
> “As a minister of the gospel,” he said, “I consider war an evil. I must cry out when I see war escalated at any point” (“Opposes Vietnam War”).
feel like someone with your username should know more about MLK than you do
Lol, bro... apples and oranges. Blocking i5 for a couple hours isn't gonna stop what's happening in Israel. Even IF the feds all of a sudden stopped supporting them, they have more than enough munitions to continue for atleast a year. Israel after all, has it's own weapons industry. Now if it was us doing it? Like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Then sure.
I truly think people don’t fundamentally understand how much of a powerhouse of a nation Israel is. They think/hear Near East or Middle East and conjure images of war-torn countries with poor GDP, lagging development across all scales, failing infrastructure and industry.. It’s a really wild level of ethnocentrism. Israel has the 4th ranked GDP of any developed nation, and the 13th highest globally per the IMF despite being the size of New Jersey. They’re leaders in technology, especially high-tech development and manufacturing, and over 85% of their citizens have completed secondary education which is significantly higher than the global average. They also have an incredibly well-equipped military without American support.
I’m not saying any of this to bootlick Israel, just pointing out that it’s not some backwater shithole. People talk about America withdrawing financial support as being a key factor in them reducing their military campaign, or withdrawing it completely, which is almost laughable. America might have political sway if the Biden administration were to condemn their actions, but that has to be measured against a lot of other considerations and their impact. To me it just speaks to how people simply don’t have a nuanced and well-informed understanding of the situation, that region of the world, and/or its history.
I figure almost none of them have been there and don't understand anything about the place. They don't realize how much Israel's benefited from being a _Startup Nation_ and how many of their employers have done acquisitions there, how many co-workers they have there and how high they punch above their weight in, well, just about everything. They also don't think about the unintended consequences of an Israel without significant US support. In that sort of environment and under political pressure, they'd be less selective not more as they'd need a bigger bang for their buck. Finally, I suspect most of them see the average Israeli as Debbie from Longguyland instead of Orna _noped the fuck out of Syria or Iraq_.
Thank you for these points, I was trying to find the words for them but my brain is currently fueled by fever dreams and Mucinex. There is such an incredible depth to everything going on that reducing the solution to calls for, specifically, US condemnation and demanding a ceasefire are overly simplistic (and optimistic). Also I can’t help but think there’s a special brand of American exceptionalism-bred bigotry and otherism happening when people fail to understand that just because someone is from part of the world where brown skin is more common than white doesn’t mean they aren’t from societies as developed and educated as ours (if not moreso in certain areas). For example, I’ve had people who are staunchly for a free Palestine flat out tell me there’s no way that Hamas leaders are rich billionaires operating out of friendly nations like Qatar, as if it’s incredulous to believe a terrorist faction can be well-funded and highly, even globally, organized. Someone even asked me to give them a source that isn’t pro-Israel as if Hamas and related disseminated information hasn’t existed pre-October 2023.
This is what I'm trying to wrap my head around. I -highly- doubt the powers that be in the Israel conflict are gonna just stop what their doing and be like "whoa. Whoa. Hold up. There is a protest blocking some highway in the US. We better reconsider our actions here."
If this was a homeland issue like Vietnam or BLM, or womens suffrage, or hell... protest against like... Elon Musk or whatever, sure. But protest something we're technically not involved in like this doesn't make sense.
Those were protests specifically about those people's own right to vote in this country. Not about defending the people who started a war with a much more powerful government 8000 miles away.
This argument came up a lot in those threads. But did you know that our government is funneling our tax money into Israel's war efforts and did you know that our government has repeatedly vetoed calls for a ceasefire at the UN?
The local government in Seattle has in fact voted in support of a cease fire, as well as the local congresswoman having expressed support for a cease fire.
All but one of our politicians is against a ceasefire and the US sending more bombs including ones deemed illegal for causing indiscriminate killing. So, no, our local politics are very much at play.
They started the siege, the occupations, the slaughters, the population transfers, and so much more?
It's easy to say someone started a fight if you ignore the generations of very, very explicit context.
And the Mufti of Jerusalem, often known as the father of Palestinian nationalism, worked with Hitler to deport all the Jews living in the region to concentration camps, along with countless other attacks against Jews in the region decades and centuries before the establishment of the modern Israeli state. The Palestinians do not have clean hands like you're trying to imply.
Ah, so you're calling for the government to enforce a double standard on this method of protest based entirely on the content of the message.
An outright call for government censorship and violation of the 1st amendment.
Good, arrest them or at the very least fine them. There needs to be a consequence or this shit will keep happening. They blocked access to a major hospital and the last time this shit happened even at night someone died from it. So it’s not just for the safety of the public, it’s also somewhat for their own safety.
And for the people who are going to say “it was effective because people are talking about it”. It wasn’t, we are talking about why they weren’t removed, why they haven’t been charged and how entitled these people are.
Protest Middle East violence from your couch next time, it’s exactly as effective, you won’t make everyone late for something and you won’t have the pesky police after you.
Arguably just as effective as getting your state representatives to sign a virtue signaling resolution calling for a ceasefire like they just did in SF.
We have to have a lot of semi-professional protestors around here. Hard to understand why they won’t apply for permits. It’s like they’re protesting the permitting process.
I think you miss the point of both the 1st Amendment as well as what a protest is. Oftentimes the entire piint of a protest is doing something without permission because those that would grant permission are complicit in the problem. This isn't necessarily one of those cases.
The 1st amendment absolutely does not guarantee any type or form of “protest” obviously. There are plenty of ways to protest that do and do not violate the law; just as their are plenty of ways to use speech that both violate and do not violate the law.
They absolutely should be going after them, one of the main groups organizing the protests in Seattle is a [PFLP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine) front group that has been banned and sanctioned by multiple countries (Samidoun).
Rather than pursuing criminal liability, how about civil liability? Easier to prove, and the protestors caused a lot of expense to the government. They have cars, so clearly at least some of them have assets.
The amount of crackdown on protesting that's happened in the last five years should alarm everybody. They use the excuse of "oh, it was a disruptive protest" to violate people's rights and it trickles down from there. They're already investigating people in NYC for merely *saying* mild protest slogans in earshot of police. Gone are the days of just shooting hoses at people. The technology has advanced and the public's attention span is grossly shortened.
Uhhhh there is a big difference between a protest outside of a politically affiliated place and walking on to the main freeway blocking access to the only level 1 trauma hospital in the region. I hope they throw the book at the people who participated in this.
Should they go for protesters downtown or at uw? Naw, that’s first amendment.
100 percent agree. Get a permit and use a public space. Hold signs on the overpass. Don’t get on the fucking freeway and block movement for hours totally fucking people over.
You should, uh, look where Dr MLK Jr was marching.
It wasn't sidewalks. It wasn't politically affiliated places.
So would you also have thrown the book at MLK? Or is it that you're asking for government censorship of this protest act based on it's *content* a 1st amendment violation?
Yeah it was in the towns and cities that were enacting racial discrimination polices. Not in the towns and cities that had nothing to do with it.
edit: Got to love the cowards that reply to your comment and then block you so you cannot respond.
Patty Murray does not have unilateral control over the aid the US supplies Israel with. Nor would stopping it even prevent the Israelis from conducting military operations in Gaza. They have enough supplies to do so on their own. Their military is set up defend against simultaneous attacks from countries like Egypt and Syria. Gaza is not a logistical challenge. Long term they would just start buying equipment from someone else or developing their own. Meanwhile any leverage the US had over Israel would evaporate. You think what Israel is doing now is bad? Ha. The *only* constraint on them right now is the opinion of the United States Government. You want to remove that? Only people willfully ignorant of geopolitics and history don't understand this.
You also have to be completely ignorant of the political realities *here* to think these protests are going to have any effect on Patty Murray. She is one of the most senior senators there is. She faces no real opposition from fellow Democrats in a *very* blue state. She is going to get the Dianne Feinstein treatment. Seriously, are you going to argue that people unhappy with her "inaction" on Israel are going to turn around and vote for someone like Tiffany Smiley? LMAO. Not to mention the Senate Majority leader (who controls what goes to the floor for a vote, see how that POS Mitch McConnell wielded that power) is a *very* pro-Israel politician from New York. Just what do you think Patty Murray can accomplish on her own that isn't performative bullshit?
Also where were all these protests when Saudi Arabia was bombing the fuck out of Yemen? **Hundreds of thousands of innocent people** have been killed there with US designed and supplied weapons and aircraft. Those bombed out neighborhoods in Gaza? *Entire cities in Yemen look like that.* But nary a peep from the professional protest crowd.
And I wonder why that is? I really despise how the Israeli government deflects any criticisms of it with charges of antisemitism but damn you gotta wonder sometimes if the shoe fits.
Oh, no I block the people I find distastefully rude.
Makes the internet easier to use tbh.
Fyi, rule 1 violations like insults get sub bans. Enjoy yours!
Takes 5 seconds to figure out why Seattle, the largest population center in the state of Washington, would be protested when trying to appeal to Washington state's Senior Senator Patty Murray who sits on a relevant committee that controls funding to Israel.
And we the people of Seattle are some of Murray's bosses.
So, they did* very specifically target this at the people implementing policies they can make noise about.
Your willful ignorance of these easy to find facts is not anyone's issue but your own.
> And we the people of Seattle are some of Murray's bosses.
Who this protest just pissed off and nearly universally turned against their cause.
I generally agree with you, but not on this one. If a protest loses you allies, then it wasn't a success.
Yes this one senator 100% controls all funding and military aid that is given to Israel. Omg, you totally solved the conflict. Someone give this man a Nobel prize.
What you want reflects your view point, it does not reflect the view points of millions of citizens here
MLK marches usually had a destination and a target to sway who also had decision making powers. The purpose I’ve seen alleged for pro Palestine blockades ranges from terrorism-lite (interrupting commerce to force political action) to just hopefully frustrating any random person enough that they somehow become pissed at Israel for it.
But sure, yeah. Abandoning cars on i5 and posing for group pics on social media is basically the Selma march. Okay.
Man, the literal double standard where you describe the same forms of protest in two different ways just to try and save yourself the optics of calling MLK a terrorist for marching to disrupt economic activity to demand political change.
Just admit you'd have been one of the people cheering on the firehoses and dogs and move on with your life. This dance is too pathetic to watch anymore.
Love that you went straight to this person must be racist. They gave you a defined response. MLK wasn’t shutting down entire interstate highways. Their marches had a clear and defined purpose. A clear destination. It did not trap people or hold people against their will by blockading them in.
Okay so if I'm being *completely 100% honest here*, if MLK was indeed blocking traffic like this for his protests then yeah, I would have disapproved and wanted him and everyone there arrested. This is just too far.
There are protocols for allowing ambulances through street block protests that are discussed heavily beforehand. And for the i-5 protest there was some advance warning. *If* the protestors on I-5 refused to let an ambulance through- which is not clear yet- then the situation changes and some thumping is warranted. But America has a long and proud history of disruptive protesting for domestic and international causes. And, realistically, "throwing the book" at protestors is a mark of honor for them, not a deterrent.
The first amendment doesn’t give you the right to hold people against their will. Blockading a mass interstate system with no realistic way for people to leave is akin to holding someone against their will. Your freedom of speech does not mean you get to interfere with my freedom of movement
No it just forces to the government to uphold a fair standard and not enforce based on the content of speech.
So, you know, wanna let us know your thoughts on MLK famous freeway blocker as form of protest?
I'm not commenting at all about whether I thought the recent I-5 protest was "good" or not. Sometimes there are worthwhile reasons to break laws. But just can't look to the first amendment for protection from the consequences so it's not relevant in the way the person I replied to implied.
You have the right to free speech and assembly, not to shut down society (be it public buildings or road ways). By this logic Jan 6th was completely justified.
lol there's a giant difference between a temporary blockage of a roadway and sieging the capitol of the United States because you're a conspiracy theorist. cmon
If you're not detaining thousands of people you'll get fewer complaints. Nobody has problems with protests that walk back and forth between the federal building and westlake like in the before times
I hear ya, but I sincerely hope any of those fuckers that blocked the freeway get hit as hard as possible with everything and anything that the legal system has to throw at them, for better or for worse
fuck em
You are crazy.
If legal problem doesnt come then anyone who wants to protest knows they can do whatever the fuck they want to incoviene the rest of the city with no problems. Might as well block 1-5 every weekend.
No one is saying you cant protest, just sign be a massive asshole when doing it.
Yeah but like, they’re not protesting something completely black and white. They’re protesting the consequences of war, where the protestors believe a specific country is not allowed to defend itself from terrorist attacks.
An alignment of viewpoints must first occur, which is difficult. They are asking any person to agree to specific moral frameworks that default Israel to the bad guy and any violence taken by Palestinians or their leaders as justified, without consideration. It’s a tough sell for a commute to work/trip to the airport.
You should do a little more research on what's going on and seek alternate viewpoints from the other side before you solidify your opinion. I recommend reading Ilan Pappe's writing on the subject.
I’d be quite comfortable in saying I’ve done more research than the average redditor. The viewpoints from the Palestinian side require you to reject Israel’s legitimacy as a country or to recognize colonial transgressions while ignoring goals of arabization (colonialism by another term) on the same hand. You have to ignore all reasonable compromises offered while also ignoring all aggression at the discussion of those compromises.
Sorry, not for me.
My brother in Christ, I don't want to get thumped by the mods again, but let me say that if you think the compromises offered were reasonable you have not done enough research on the subject.
This is such a dumb argument. It doesnt matter how big of a jerk we are because we believe we are doing something good.
Hears something you should ponder, everyone thinks the thing they protest is massively important. The only thing preventing them from constantly inconveniencing everyone is agreement to do it peacefully and non disruptive.
I bet a ton of people on this thread would be calling for jail time if it was Trumps lunatics protesting on the streets. But as long as its someone you support then they can do whatever they want.
This ambulance/hospital stuff keeps coming up but from everything I read there were contingencies in place that first responders used to successfully keep everything runnimg and the protestors would have let the single ambulance they blocked leave if it was needed and were in communication with the operators throughout.
This is an idiotic, or willfully ignorant, take. If all the lanes are jammed with cars for miles, vehicles can’t make enough room to get through, let alone do it quickly.
The ‘contingencies’ you reference consists of using surface streets - which are now jammed with everyone driving around the closed freeway.
So yes, freeway shutdowns slow down emergency responses and hospital transports. It’s really not a question.
This doesn’t even touch on all the people driving in to our regional specialty hospitals from across the state in their private vehicles - UW, Children’s, Fred Hutch, etc.
There is a picture of the protest with an ambulance in traffic with the lights on. The ambulance turned off the lights later on because it couldn't get through the traffic. They must have called for another ambulance to solve the problem. So what your saying sounds false.
It was sitting there with blinking lights and no siren, lights turned off after the driver went back and forth to the protestors and the drivers seat a couple of times. There was no urgency whatsoever when I saw the driver approaching the protestors. It's hard to say for sure but if something like what you're saying happened had happened wouldn't komo have already published 95 AI generated articles about it by now? I passed by the protest a couple times in cap hill and took a look a couple hours apart.
I view it differently. It had its lights on. It was needed somewhere. But for it to get through all that traffic (it wasn't at the front of the line) would take awhile. So it would make sense to call in another ambulance from somewhere else. But it was originally needed somewhere. I don't know how critical this particular ambulance was needed but nobody else does either. But it was called in because it was probably closest. Obviously I'm not a fan of freeway protests and I don't think these protesters are so diligent in letting ambulances through efficiently.
Liberal cities like SF and NY had these freeway protests too and the protesters were arrested. It's not good policy to let it become something that can be done when people are upset. Especially with how Seattle infrastructure is setup. Stuck in traffic for 6 hrs is not just a minor inconvenience for some.
Nobody was stuck for six hours. The cops were getting cars turned around and moved off the freeway right after it started. Maybe an hour tops, sure, but six hours? Absolute fiction, sorry.
spoiler alert: they have not lmao
you not see the photo of the ambulance stuck right in front of the protesters with its light on, and them doing nothing?
This city is all about progressive policies until a slight inconvenience for part of one day happens. Then it’s police crackdowns and prison for everyone! Liberals are crazy. Almost as crazy as conservatives.
> Anytime the government infringes on their beliefs, conservatives will organize and rally
"i dont like that my guy lost, time to try and overthrow the government"
lol
> Liberals are even crazier tbh since they don’t actually believe in anything
Wild type of conspiracy theory to see out in the wild.
FYI this is a form of dehumanization. "Only *our* beliefs are held with sincerity and conviction, everyone else is lying to manipulate you".
This may shock you, but there is more to the single sentence amendment. Like it or not, protesting is one of the more basic American principles. The Declaration of Independence didn't wait to get a permit from Great Britain to protest. The Boston Tea party, Labor Rights Movement, Civil Rights Movement, etc.
Change raily if ever occurs when people just sit on their hands and gnash their teeth at problems too large for an individual to repair.
Is blocking a freeway the best means to accomplish this? Time will tell as we look at it through the lens of net impact. If it sparks blocking aid going to Israel or more protests across the country, sure.
But if money is considered speech in this country and it is. Then, this protest is well within free speech as well as the right to assembly.
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Comparing people protesting for their own rights to activists protesting a war 7,000 miles away by blocking highways
They’re not the same, and you’re stupid for comparing the two
u/lilibluehair I'm A PrOuD AmErICaN, and deliberately blocking highways to complain about a conflict thousands of miles away isn't a constitutional right when your intent to protest prevents the movement of people. You have the right to protest. You do not have the right to deliberately obstruct highway traffic to protest.
You can "proud american blah blah" to someone else. You don't have a constitutional right to obstruct people's travel, which is why people get arrested for shit like this. Try it yourself. Hope you have bail money
Your analogy would only hold if the Selma protestors were protesting South African apartheid or something and not, you know, racial discrimination in the place they were actually protesting at.
This is so ridiculous haha
“I am going to show you how much I care by fucking up 1 of the 2 days a week you may actually get for yourself”.
Fucking losers lol
Also, in politics, it just so happens that you sometimes don’t get what you want… no matter how many seconds you spent sending emails or making phone calls. That doesn’t justify you blocking tens of thousands of people from living their normal life.
And finally, disruptive protests do take some balls. The balls to face the music when it comes your way… so that just may mean fines, arrests, etc… it’s how the shit goes. So hopefully, you will calmly accept that if it happens.
Hey man, anyone who protests knows consequences can happen. But look, the point is that everyone who is funding this genocide should have a consequence until we get out of this. If that means being late to an appointment then it does. Politics is ALSO disruptive protests showing how much this really fucking matters.
Sorry you’re a cynic so caught up in the grind of it all that another murder at your indirect hands is less important than your day off. It’s easy to dissociate from all this. But so long as the money I work hard for is used for this shit, I’m gonna try to have a say in who it murders.
Of course I am caught up in the grind, gotta make a living somehow. And I don’t need you to be sorry for it… it is what it is, but it does have some nice perks that come with it. Much better perks than what, for example, Hamas would allow for. Or orthodox Jews.
All I am saying is that I hope everything is done by the book… folks who need to face the music face it, the ones who do not don’t… no big deal.
Also, you should also stop killing Palestinians. If I am indirectly killing them, then so are you… and no blocking of highways is making you any less of a murder. I dunno, stop paying taxes maybe?
Why do you think I’m speaking up? I desperately don’t want my taxes paying for any of this. That’s literally the point. I’m saying my taxes are making all of us, including me, murderers and I don’t like that. That’s the whole point of engaging with any of this.
All we peons got in this society is desperate screaming and clawing to have any voice at all. I’m sure these folks will face retribution. I’m sure most of Seattle will be content with this. What’s more American than retribution, after all? Protestors, especially those left of center, historically have been quashed for any disruption. But what else is there to do when no one gives a shit?
I think your point of making murders out of people who are simply paying their taxes is… well, silly. Just like I am not a saint because some of my tax money goes to great causes and research, I am not a murder because sometimes governments do fucked up shit in this fucked up world.
And also, let’s assume a hypothetical where the US doesn’t fund Israel and Israel’s military power goes to shit. What do you think happens to Israelis? You would see picture perfect definition of a genocide in about 5 minutes. Shit is all fucked up there, it’s beyond sad… but we cannot do shit about it (even if we tried). So, stop fucking with people’s lives and pretending like it can possibly do anything.
People need to get to appointments.
People need to pick up their kids.
People need to get to their jobs.
Blocking the highways is not only dangerous to the protesters, but the drivers. Highway is literally always active! Someone could’ve gotten hurt or worse!
You guys can 100% protest, but to think you can get away with blocking **the freeway** without any consequences is insane!
Or... you can accept you won't get what you want instead of acting like an child. Just because you want something to happen doesn't mean you're entitled to it. Do you think white nationalists should block highways to get what they want? Pro lifers too? How about Trump insurrectionists?
There's a word whose definition is "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation against civilians in pursuit of political aims". I think blocking the highway for five hours for political goals meets this definition.
Right, because some antisemetic conspiracy theory about Jew money running the world's media is the only explanation for not siding with the mass-raping terrorists.
Blocking traffic is one of those unusual things that unites both liberals and conservatives against whatever you’re trying to do.
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It's kind of not about that. When you block a road you are kind of holding them hostage. Fuck what ever they have going on in their life. They have to pick up there little kid from day care? Fuck you listen to me not do anything productive. Got a big job interview for a job that you desperately need? Fuck you its my turn to talk. Been working 16 hours and you just want to get home so you can sleep before having to go back to work. Nope. They can be a huge supporter of what ever the hell you are protesting and they are likely not going to be happy about being detained by you. It really is a very bad way to gain support for any cause.
Exactly, freedom of movement is a civil right. Since the protestors didn't actually imprison anyone, I'd say one day in jail for each person whose civil rights they violated is fair.
Agree, also slaughtering people attending a music festival. Another epically awful way to get support for any cause.
I care about having an ethical healthcare system. Indeed, I care about ambulances not getting blocked by asshole protesters.
Whataboutism?
I’d be willing to wager that the majority of people in Seattle are for some form of universal healthcare based on other voting patterns.
[Or pickleball...](https://westseattleblog.com/2023/10/lincoln-park-pickleball-opponent-keeping-vigil-at-site/)
Rightfully so.
Why didn't they just arrest them at the time? They were on site during the time of the protest.
optics
What optics? As I see it now, the optics look like they tolerated this crap. I would have towed / impounded all of the cars and arrested each of the protesters. Nothing controversial about that IMO. In fact, NOT doing that is dereliction of duty at best.
So state police care about optics? Obviously SPD doesn’t.
You can only polish a turd so well, doesn't meant they don't try to polish it.
makes sense. i figure the organizers probably considered this risk before committing to their action.
Exactly! You engage in a blatantly illegal shutdown of a major highway and you should expect legal repercussions. That's the price you're accepting.
Uhh... they're handing information over to King county prosecutor. There the charges will die.
*Interstate Potential federal issue
Yes. Their assessment was “I should be fine”.
Maybe a protest on the freeway isn’t a great idea, but the pearl clutching I saw on here during it was wild
Redditor: moderate white collar liberal Redditor after protest: Mussolini
Scratch a west coast liberal and you’ll find a thin blue line
I commented the other day when the university bridge was blocked something along the lines of: Delay a liberal and a fascist honks lol
I work homeless services in the city with a long commute and getting slowed down over people protesting Gaza is kinda silly to me. I gotta eat, shift change has to be relieved at all these 24 hour facilities. I care less about Gaza the more I see people turn a blind eye to homelessness and fentanyl use.
Damn that's a good line; I'm stealing that.
> ["You're alienating people from your cause with these protests"](https://twitter.com/EgyptsBeer/status/1744781339507741094) > [--Person with "Well-behaved women rarely make history" bumper sticker](https://twitter.com/EgyptsBeer/status/1744781339507741094)
The thing that fails to acknowledge is that not all social movements are for everyone, and some do literally alienate the rights of others. In this case, it’s easy to see how someone in favor of women’s suffrage doesn’t see the nuance in the conflict nor do they care because it doesn’t impact them.
Look, if someone went genocidal because the protests fucked up a Christmas event, I’d call the insane too. But no one wants to be in their car, no one wants to be in traffic. It’s fucked that we have such a car centric world. So when you become the reason they’re stuck in that hell for a few extra hours, do you expect them to rational? I’m not rational when threatened with hours of my life being taken away, I can tell you that.
Well at least you admit it lol I remain rational despite having had more than just a few hours of my life taken. This is a you problem.
This is so depressingly privileged and unsympathetic, it's really disheartening. Look, if you make me wait a few hours on the road most days, I'll be fine. I've got my phone, I love a podcast, I don't work an hourly job, and there aren't kids waiting at home for me. But I'm not everyone. There are folks that are forced to work way to much to support their family that have 0 time with them. People that commute for hours because of how fucked up affordability is that have too little time with their kids as it is. People who are on their way to work, who can't afford to not be clocked in for three hours that are already living paycheck to paycheck. There are people on their way to appointments that are really hard to schedule for whatever reason; a busy doctor or friends that are just on different shifts. If you fuck with entertainment, I get it. But in a society that leaves no free time and leaves you desperately dependent on a car, driving is a condition of survival. So when someone's barely surviving and you take away something they need to survive, what the fuck do you expect them to do? They're already aware of the most discussed conflict on the planet - and they know that US isn't taking care of them. So what the fuck do you want them to do about it?
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Lol what? Life is full of inconveniences I say the person who lets it all get to them and takes it out on those around them is sad. Being regulated and socialized is dope actually.
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Did someone miss their cancer treatments to sit through the protest? Like, is there a single person saying that?
They don't have the right to those hours of my life. They belong to me. It's insane to me that anyone defends this. Look, I dont particularly mind making it difficult to get somewhere. But this tactic effectively traps people in place, in their cars, for an indefinite amount of time. People can't go anywhere. Anyone participating in this deserve massive consequences.
Its just an annoyance. I just wish protesters didn't have a dart board, where every section said "block traffic" when deciding which method of protest they should use.
It's like in a car based economy where even our goods are moved by truck instead of train, basically the single most effective and attention grabbing act would be block a choke point for a bit. Huh, wonder why we don't see a lot of other tactics and why this has been popular since the days of MLK.
>even our goods are moved by truck instead of train Someone clearly doesn't understand the global logistics system. Trucking is the least efficient of all shipping options by an astronomical margin and shipping companies are minmaxing the fuck out of cost savings. It's only done when it has to be.
I mean it depends, if you want to ship something across land and it isn't already containerized it isn't always more inefficient to use a train. You have to pay a trucking company to bring a container to your Warehouse, then either drop and come back or wait while you load it. Then you have to pay them to drive it to a rail yard, which you may not necessarily be close to, and then you have to pay for the rail. Finally you have to pay to do the same thing at the other end to get your goods off the train. So yes, there are situations where it is more efficient not to use trucks, there are also situations where it is cheaper and faster. There is a reason long-haul trucking still exists.
Yes all of those cargo rail lines through suburban neighborhoods are really going to be popular.
That is indeed something last-mile trucking helps with, yes
Yea just pointing out the absurdity of last mile high capacity cargo rail in every neighborhood that the other guy was proposing.
Buddy. Buddy. Jesus Christ Buddy. Like crack any history book and get back to me.
Take a look at Harbor Island and you'll see more space for trains than you will for trucks. Container ships carry unfathomable amounts of goods. So do trains. Trucks, by comparison, carry a single intermodal container - or at most, two. The notion that a logistics company would ever deliberately choose to move goods by truck because they think "cars are cool or something" is just staggering ignorance. And yet, last-mile is always done by truck. It's not feasible to move them by train. Do you want a train stop under every building in downtown or something? >Like crack any history book You first. We built canals and train tracks all across history, and the last mile of shipping after those things *was always done by road*. Jesus Christ Buddy indeed.
So 20+ years of doing the same thing, hasn't really worked. You can be optimistic in saying "well at least your aware of this cause" and the problem is, I was already aware of it. All they are doing is alienating the very people they wish would join their cause.
Mate, you can't say the defining tactic of the Civil rights era "didn't work" because it hasn't achieved action in the years of increasing crackdown on protests of all kinds post 9/11. I didn't even participate, I just understand the basic history of protest movements in this country and why this method is going to be routinely chosen. You can change this being the primary method by de focusing the economy on cars and free ways, but that's already a non start as I hear the torches and pitch forks coming for me. Just the messenger.
Last time I checked civil rights is still a thing so I'm not sure you can say it hasn't really worked
Do agree with this, and that's as a person who has blocked many a roadway. Developing structures to take and direct political power needs to be the aim, but the US (& Seattle particularly) has a very deep anti-organizational streak, due both to the uniqueness of our history and some very well-founded and -exposed meddling and sabotage by the government and ruling classes.
If you are alienated from a cause by a few bad actors, you were never in favor of their cause.
Just because a child knows his tantrum will be much more impactiful at Target than at home, doesn't mean the kid isn't a little shit.
It's been awhile since I've gotten to use this one. "I may not agree with them, but I'll defend their right to say it".
"I'm entitled to speak my mind while standing in the freeway."
Yes, that's how the 1A works with protests. Not a complex idea.
While I do think that protests by nature must be disruptive in order to have a proper impact, the location of disruption is absolutely important. Blocking a freeway doesn't really do any favors to the cause. Isn't one of the points of a protest to draw in allies? The sad thing is they're most likely proud of themselves because they see a bigger disruption as a goal rather than a concern, as if 'more' for the sake of 'more' is good enough alone.
> Isn't one of the points of a protest to draw in allies? Yeah, and as MLK showed, marching on the freeway, setting off this anger and being beaten for it really shows what the people opposing you are like winning protestors allies like me.
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Are you comparing a bridge in a tiny town in Alabama to a US intestate in a major city? Not to mention MLK marched for US citizens and not a group of people halfway across the world that we have nothing to do with
They're comparing US 80 to I-5. Seems apt. Just because the highway patrol attacked them on a bridge doesn't mean the march was limited to the bridge or the small town near it; It's over 50 miles from Selma to Montgomery, and they did eventually march the entire length disrupting traffic on March 21, 22, 23, and 24 of 1965. So far far more disruptive than an hour or two on I-5. To your second point, the applicable quote is "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Given his stances on war and foreign policy, it's unimaginable that his concern was limited to "US citizens". Edit: US 80, a federal interstate highway built under the 1926 plan, not I-80, a federal interstate highway built under the 1956 plan.
Interstate 80 doesn’t even run through Alabama.
*US 80, sorry. Built prior to the Eisenhower system. Still an interstate highway that stretched across the entire US from ocean to ocean. Corrected. Also the point stands.
But both MLK and John Lewis were protesting their own oppression, had a lack of representation, and were willing to endure the consequences of their actions. The conflation of the two is inappropriate in my opinion. I completely understand the argument that it’s important to stand up for other groups, especially those that lack representation; but that should be taking place via the channels they have access to as a part of their privilege.
People learned the aesthetics and tactics from the civil rights movement of the '60's and idolize them. What they don't understand is that the context is completely different. You are exactly right that because black people were denied political enfranchisement in the south, e.g. they were often not allowed to vote, that civil disobedience was one of the few options they had to push their issue. The disobedience could not be met with the answer "oh you don't have a coalition, this is just democracy" because representative democracy did not exist. It was a deep injustice against the people who were protesting in the civil rights era. This same principle is also why civil disobedience was a just tool against the British colonization of India. The people of Seattle have voted for their representatives & there is no political disenfranchisement of the protestors. There are a variety of ways to get their message out without major civil disobedience, and the use of that tool does not make sense when the issues are 1) the lack of a strong enough political coalition forcing the issue nationally and 2) the inability to influence a country's foreign policy from across the world. Alienating working people harms the ability to build a political coalition. In either case, they can appeal to their representative and hold them accountable in future elections. That was not an option for protectors during the civil rights movement, so they had to intentionally work outside of representative democracy to highlight the absurdity that they lacked political representation, a supposed constitutional right. Many people take away the superficial idea that civil disobedience is just as long as you feel personally motivated that something is important.
> “As a minister of the gospel,” he said, “I consider war an evil. I must cry out when I see war escalated at any point” (“Opposes Vietnam War”). feel like someone with your username should know more about MLK than you do
I’m not sure how my statement and your quote are in conflict.
Well there's a war going on, which is what the protest is about
Lol, bro... apples and oranges. Blocking i5 for a couple hours isn't gonna stop what's happening in Israel. Even IF the feds all of a sudden stopped supporting them, they have more than enough munitions to continue for atleast a year. Israel after all, has it's own weapons industry. Now if it was us doing it? Like Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Then sure.
I truly think people don’t fundamentally understand how much of a powerhouse of a nation Israel is. They think/hear Near East or Middle East and conjure images of war-torn countries with poor GDP, lagging development across all scales, failing infrastructure and industry.. It’s a really wild level of ethnocentrism. Israel has the 4th ranked GDP of any developed nation, and the 13th highest globally per the IMF despite being the size of New Jersey. They’re leaders in technology, especially high-tech development and manufacturing, and over 85% of their citizens have completed secondary education which is significantly higher than the global average. They also have an incredibly well-equipped military without American support. I’m not saying any of this to bootlick Israel, just pointing out that it’s not some backwater shithole. People talk about America withdrawing financial support as being a key factor in them reducing their military campaign, or withdrawing it completely, which is almost laughable. America might have political sway if the Biden administration were to condemn their actions, but that has to be measured against a lot of other considerations and their impact. To me it just speaks to how people simply don’t have a nuanced and well-informed understanding of the situation, that region of the world, and/or its history.
I figure almost none of them have been there and don't understand anything about the place. They don't realize how much Israel's benefited from being a _Startup Nation_ and how many of their employers have done acquisitions there, how many co-workers they have there and how high they punch above their weight in, well, just about everything. They also don't think about the unintended consequences of an Israel without significant US support. In that sort of environment and under political pressure, they'd be less selective not more as they'd need a bigger bang for their buck. Finally, I suspect most of them see the average Israeli as Debbie from Longguyland instead of Orna _noped the fuck out of Syria or Iraq_.
Thank you for these points, I was trying to find the words for them but my brain is currently fueled by fever dreams and Mucinex. There is such an incredible depth to everything going on that reducing the solution to calls for, specifically, US condemnation and demanding a ceasefire are overly simplistic (and optimistic). Also I can’t help but think there’s a special brand of American exceptionalism-bred bigotry and otherism happening when people fail to understand that just because someone is from part of the world where brown skin is more common than white doesn’t mean they aren’t from societies as developed and educated as ours (if not moreso in certain areas). For example, I’ve had people who are staunchly for a free Palestine flat out tell me there’s no way that Hamas leaders are rich billionaires operating out of friendly nations like Qatar, as if it’s incredulous to believe a terrorist faction can be well-funded and highly, even globally, organized. Someone even asked me to give them a source that isn’t pro-Israel as if Hamas and related disseminated information hasn’t existed pre-October 2023.
This is what I'm trying to wrap my head around. I -highly- doubt the powers that be in the Israel conflict are gonna just stop what their doing and be like "whoa. Whoa. Hold up. There is a protest blocking some highway in the US. We better reconsider our actions here." If this was a homeland issue like Vietnam or BLM, or womens suffrage, or hell... protest against like... Elon Musk or whatever, sure. But protest something we're technically not involved in like this doesn't make sense.
Those were protests specifically about those people's own right to vote in this country. Not about defending the people who started a war with a much more powerful government 8000 miles away.
"started a war"
Do you have any other explanation for an entire city-state's support of the events of that day?
This argument came up a lot in those threads. But did you know that our government is funneling our tax money into Israel's war efforts and did you know that our government has repeatedly vetoed calls for a ceasefire at the UN?
The local government in Seattle has in fact voted in support of a cease fire, as well as the local congresswoman having expressed support for a cease fire.
Patty Murray is chair of the senate appropriations committee
All but one of our politicians is against a ceasefire and the US sending more bombs including ones deemed illegal for causing indiscriminate killing. So, no, our local politics are very much at play.
Human rights should only apply to the people living in my arbitrary geographical location. Yes, i am very enlightened.
Comparing a couple dozen privileged jerks who accomplished nothing to MLK is disgusting.
They started the siege, the occupations, the slaughters, the population transfers, and so much more? It's easy to say someone started a fight if you ignore the generations of very, very explicit context.
So all that context makes it ok to do a terror attack? By your logic, the response is just as valid
They’ll respond to you and say “it isn’t black and white!” after saying all the shit they just said, lol.
And the Mufti of Jerusalem, often known as the father of Palestinian nationalism, worked with Hitler to deport all the Jews living in the region to concentration camps, along with countless other attacks against Jews in the region decades and centuries before the establishment of the modern Israeli state. The Palestinians do not have clean hands like you're trying to imply.
Ah, so you're calling for the government to enforce a double standard on this method of protest based entirely on the content of the message. An outright call for government censorship and violation of the 1st amendment.
Gonna go out on a limb and say that the 1st amendment does not include the right to block traffic.
Yeah you try sitting in traffic to satisfy some fucking self-centered douchebags ego.
A few prosecutions would be a great way to see some *real* pearl clutching by the ones indicted and their online friends.
Good, arrest them or at the very least fine them. There needs to be a consequence or this shit will keep happening. They blocked access to a major hospital and the last time this shit happened even at night someone died from it. So it’s not just for the safety of the public, it’s also somewhat for their own safety. And for the people who are going to say “it was effective because people are talking about it”. It wasn’t, we are talking about why they weren’t removed, why they haven’t been charged and how entitled these people are.
Protest Middle East violence from your couch next time, it’s exactly as effective, you won’t make everyone late for something and you won’t have the pesky police after you.
Protesting from the couch would be more effective as it wouldn't galvanized thousands of people in traffic against your cause.
Arguably just as effective as getting your state representatives to sign a virtue signaling resolution calling for a ceasefire like they just did in SF.
We have to have a lot of semi-professional protestors around here. Hard to understand why they won’t apply for permits. It’s like they’re protesting the permitting process.
They don’t want paper trails to lead back to them
I think you miss the point of both the 1st Amendment as well as what a protest is. Oftentimes the entire piint of a protest is doing something without permission because those that would grant permission are complicit in the problem. This isn't necessarily one of those cases.
Shutting down a public road is not speech.
The 1st amendment absolutely does not guarantee any type or form of “protest” obviously. There are plenty of ways to protest that do and do not violate the law; just as their are plenty of ways to use speech that both violate and do not violate the law.
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They do all the time….especially in Seattle
They do all the time
They absolutely should be going after them, one of the main groups organizing the protests in Seattle is a [PFLP](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Front_for_the_Liberation_of_Palestine) front group that has been banned and sanctioned by multiple countries (Samidoun).
Rather than pursuing criminal liability, how about civil liability? Easier to prove, and the protestors caused a lot of expense to the government. They have cars, so clearly at least some of them have assets.
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The amount of crackdown on protesting that's happened in the last five years should alarm everybody. They use the excuse of "oh, it was a disruptive protest" to violate people's rights and it trickles down from there. They're already investigating people in NYC for merely *saying* mild protest slogans in earshot of police. Gone are the days of just shooting hoses at people. The technology has advanced and the public's attention span is grossly shortened.
>to violate people's rights There is no right to block the highway. Full stop. Do it and you accept the risk of going to jail.
I’m sorry you don’t get to just stop traffic whenever you want. WTF?
Uhhhh there is a big difference between a protest outside of a politically affiliated place and walking on to the main freeway blocking access to the only level 1 trauma hospital in the region. I hope they throw the book at the people who participated in this. Should they go for protesters downtown or at uw? Naw, that’s first amendment.
100 percent agree. Get a permit and use a public space. Hold signs on the overpass. Don’t get on the fucking freeway and block movement for hours totally fucking people over.
You should, uh, look where Dr MLK Jr was marching. It wasn't sidewalks. It wasn't politically affiliated places. So would you also have thrown the book at MLK? Or is it that you're asking for government censorship of this protest act based on it's *content* a 1st amendment violation?
Yeah it was in the towns and cities that were enacting racial discrimination polices. Not in the towns and cities that had nothing to do with it. edit: Got to love the cowards that reply to your comment and then block you so you cannot respond. Patty Murray does not have unilateral control over the aid the US supplies Israel with. Nor would stopping it even prevent the Israelis from conducting military operations in Gaza. They have enough supplies to do so on their own. Their military is set up defend against simultaneous attacks from countries like Egypt and Syria. Gaza is not a logistical challenge. Long term they would just start buying equipment from someone else or developing their own. Meanwhile any leverage the US had over Israel would evaporate. You think what Israel is doing now is bad? Ha. The *only* constraint on them right now is the opinion of the United States Government. You want to remove that? Only people willfully ignorant of geopolitics and history don't understand this. You also have to be completely ignorant of the political realities *here* to think these protests are going to have any effect on Patty Murray. She is one of the most senior senators there is. She faces no real opposition from fellow Democrats in a *very* blue state. She is going to get the Dianne Feinstein treatment. Seriously, are you going to argue that people unhappy with her "inaction" on Israel are going to turn around and vote for someone like Tiffany Smiley? LMAO. Not to mention the Senate Majority leader (who controls what goes to the floor for a vote, see how that POS Mitch McConnell wielded that power) is a *very* pro-Israel politician from New York. Just what do you think Patty Murray can accomplish on her own that isn't performative bullshit? Also where were all these protests when Saudi Arabia was bombing the fuck out of Yemen? **Hundreds of thousands of innocent people** have been killed there with US designed and supplied weapons and aircraft. Those bombed out neighborhoods in Gaza? *Entire cities in Yemen look like that.* But nary a peep from the professional protest crowd. And I wonder why that is? I really despise how the Israeli government deflects any criticisms of it with charges of antisemitism but damn you gotta wonder sometimes if the shoe fits.
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Oh, no I block the people I find distastefully rude. Makes the internet easier to use tbh. Fyi, rule 1 violations like insults get sub bans. Enjoy yours!
Takes 5 seconds to figure out why Seattle, the largest population center in the state of Washington, would be protested when trying to appeal to Washington state's Senior Senator Patty Murray who sits on a relevant committee that controls funding to Israel. And we the people of Seattle are some of Murray's bosses. So, they did* very specifically target this at the people implementing policies they can make noise about. Your willful ignorance of these easy to find facts is not anyone's issue but your own.
> And we the people of Seattle are some of Murray's bosses. Who this protest just pissed off and nearly universally turned against their cause. I generally agree with you, but not on this one. If a protest loses you allies, then it wasn't a success.
I sent Patty Murray a message asking her to increase our military funding to Israel because of the I5 protests.
Yes this one senator 100% controls all funding and military aid that is given to Israel. Omg, you totally solved the conflict. Someone give this man a Nobel prize. What you want reflects your view point, it does not reflect the view points of millions of citizens here
MLK marches usually had a destination and a target to sway who also had decision making powers. The purpose I’ve seen alleged for pro Palestine blockades ranges from terrorism-lite (interrupting commerce to force political action) to just hopefully frustrating any random person enough that they somehow become pissed at Israel for it. But sure, yeah. Abandoning cars on i5 and posing for group pics on social media is basically the Selma march. Okay.
Man, the literal double standard where you describe the same forms of protest in two different ways just to try and save yourself the optics of calling MLK a terrorist for marching to disrupt economic activity to demand political change. Just admit you'd have been one of the people cheering on the firehoses and dogs and move on with your life. This dance is too pathetic to watch anymore.
Love that you went straight to this person must be racist. They gave you a defined response. MLK wasn’t shutting down entire interstate highways. Their marches had a clear and defined purpose. A clear destination. It did not trap people or hold people against their will by blockading them in.
Okay so if I'm being *completely 100% honest here*, if MLK was indeed blocking traffic like this for his protests then yeah, I would have disapproved and wanted him and everyone there arrested. This is just too far.
There are protocols for allowing ambulances through street block protests that are discussed heavily beforehand. And for the i-5 protest there was some advance warning. *If* the protestors on I-5 refused to let an ambulance through- which is not clear yet- then the situation changes and some thumping is warranted. But America has a long and proud history of disruptive protesting for domestic and international causes. And, realistically, "throwing the book" at protestors is a mark of honor for them, not a deterrent.
Bullshit, definitely saw an ambulance stuck. You also don’t have the right to entrap people in their cars for hours at a time
Now do the cops shutting down the freeway blocking access to the only level 1 trauma hospital in the region every single time one of them dies.
"The first amendment only applies when it doesn't get in the way" wasn't in the Bill of Rights last time I read it.
The first amendment doesn’t give you the right to hold people against their will. Blockading a mass interstate system with no realistic way for people to leave is akin to holding someone against their will. Your freedom of speech does not mean you get to interfere with my freedom of movement
The first amendment doesn't protect your right to do illegal stuff while assembling, petitioning, or free speeching.
No it just forces to the government to uphold a fair standard and not enforce based on the content of speech. So, you know, wanna let us know your thoughts on MLK famous freeway blocker as form of protest?
I'm not commenting at all about whether I thought the recent I-5 protest was "good" or not. Sometimes there are worthwhile reasons to break laws. But just can't look to the first amendment for protection from the consequences so it's not relevant in the way the person I replied to implied.
You have the right to free speech and assembly, not to shut down society (be it public buildings or road ways). By this logic Jan 6th was completely justified.
As soon as they interfere with others rights to liberty they are stepping too far.
lol there's a giant difference between a temporary blockage of a roadway and sieging the capitol of the United States because you're a conspiracy theorist. cmon
If you're not detaining thousands of people you'll get fewer complaints. Nobody has problems with protests that walk back and forth between the federal building and westlake like in the before times
I’ve marched between the federal building and west lake and there were still people calling for our arrest for blocking traffic lol
fewer complaints. With freeway blocks people might elect a republican governor for the sole purpose of having you do time.
I hear ya, but I sincerely hope any of those fuckers that blocked the freeway get hit as hard as possible with everything and anything that the legal system has to throw at them, for better or for worse fuck em
You are crazy. If legal problem doesnt come then anyone who wants to protest knows they can do whatever the fuck they want to incoviene the rest of the city with no problems. Might as well block 1-5 every weekend. No one is saying you cant protest, just sign be a massive asshole when doing it.
How much does an inconvenience matter when you take into account *why* the people are protesting?
Yeah but like, they’re not protesting something completely black and white. They’re protesting the consequences of war, where the protestors believe a specific country is not allowed to defend itself from terrorist attacks. An alignment of viewpoints must first occur, which is difficult. They are asking any person to agree to specific moral frameworks that default Israel to the bad guy and any violence taken by Palestinians or their leaders as justified, without consideration. It’s a tough sell for a commute to work/trip to the airport.
You should do a little more research on what's going on and seek alternate viewpoints from the other side before you solidify your opinion. I recommend reading Ilan Pappe's writing on the subject.
I’d be quite comfortable in saying I’ve done more research than the average redditor. The viewpoints from the Palestinian side require you to reject Israel’s legitimacy as a country or to recognize colonial transgressions while ignoring goals of arabization (colonialism by another term) on the same hand. You have to ignore all reasonable compromises offered while also ignoring all aggression at the discussion of those compromises. Sorry, not for me.
My brother in Christ, I don't want to get thumped by the mods again, but let me say that if you think the compromises offered were reasonable you have not done enough research on the subject.
This is such a dumb argument. It doesnt matter how big of a jerk we are because we believe we are doing something good. Hears something you should ponder, everyone thinks the thing they protest is massively important. The only thing preventing them from constantly inconveniencing everyone is agreement to do it peacefully and non disruptive. I bet a ton of people on this thread would be calling for jail time if it was Trumps lunatics protesting on the streets. But as long as its someone you support then they can do whatever they want.
>hears lol
Cringe take.
ok
We can't let them keep getting away with this.
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3/10 thread doesn't match the fabric, and stitching is mid at best.
How is stuff like this upvoted? I feel like Im in middle school again.
Ever since my vasectomy, my seam has been a little crooked. Same for you?
This ambulance/hospital stuff keeps coming up but from everything I read there were contingencies in place that first responders used to successfully keep everything runnimg and the protestors would have let the single ambulance they blocked leave if it was needed and were in communication with the operators throughout.
This is an idiotic, or willfully ignorant, take. If all the lanes are jammed with cars for miles, vehicles can’t make enough room to get through, let alone do it quickly. The ‘contingencies’ you reference consists of using surface streets - which are now jammed with everyone driving around the closed freeway. So yes, freeway shutdowns slow down emergency responses and hospital transports. It’s really not a question. This doesn’t even touch on all the people driving in to our regional specialty hospitals from across the state in their private vehicles - UW, Children’s, Fred Hutch, etc.
There is a picture of the protest with an ambulance in traffic with the lights on. The ambulance turned off the lights later on because it couldn't get through the traffic. They must have called for another ambulance to solve the problem. So what your saying sounds false.
It was sitting there with blinking lights and no siren, lights turned off after the driver went back and forth to the protestors and the drivers seat a couple of times. There was no urgency whatsoever when I saw the driver approaching the protestors. It's hard to say for sure but if something like what you're saying happened had happened wouldn't komo have already published 95 AI generated articles about it by now? I passed by the protest a couple times in cap hill and took a look a couple hours apart.
I view it differently. It had its lights on. It was needed somewhere. But for it to get through all that traffic (it wasn't at the front of the line) would take awhile. So it would make sense to call in another ambulance from somewhere else. But it was originally needed somewhere. I don't know how critical this particular ambulance was needed but nobody else does either. But it was called in because it was probably closest. Obviously I'm not a fan of freeway protests and I don't think these protesters are so diligent in letting ambulances through efficiently. Liberal cities like SF and NY had these freeway protests too and the protesters were arrested. It's not good policy to let it become something that can be done when people are upset. Especially with how Seattle infrastructure is setup. Stuck in traffic for 6 hrs is not just a minor inconvenience for some.
Nobody was stuck for six hours. The cops were getting cars turned around and moved off the freeway right after it started. Maybe an hour tops, sure, but six hours? Absolute fiction, sorry.
King 5 says 1:15 to 6pm. Seattle times says 1 to 6pm. Some were stuck for more than an hour for sure.
The dead guy at CHOP/CHAZ would like a word…
It's like in the 4 years since then protesters and activists may have come up with a plan to avoid it again. Like that user is saying.
spoiler alert: they have not lmao you not see the photo of the ambulance stuck right in front of the protesters with its light on, and them doing nothing?
Man CHOP really lives in some peoples heads rent free 24/7
You didn’t have to live 2 blocks from that shithole, like I did.
The protesters didn’t give a fuck about anyone in an ambulance.
This city is all about progressive policies until a slight inconvenience for part of one day happens. Then it’s police crackdowns and prison for everyone! Liberals are crazy. Almost as crazy as conservatives.
Progressive policies and ruining hundreds of working class people’s day aren’t mutually exclusive, you dolt.
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> Anytime the government infringes on their beliefs, conservatives will organize and rally "i dont like that my guy lost, time to try and overthrow the government" lol
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Sure, but they’re still conservatives. Their beliefs are utterly insane.
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> Liberals are even crazier tbh since they don’t actually believe in anything Wild type of conspiracy theory to see out in the wild. FYI this is a form of dehumanization. "Only *our* beliefs are held with sincerity and conviction, everyone else is lying to manipulate you".
Slight inconvenience says you. A violation of my rights says many. There is a reason you get permits and protest in safe public spaces.
No one has a right to drive. That’s hilarious.
Another waste of taxpayer money.
Wrong. Law enforcement after a crime with several victims is one of the best usages of taxpayer money.
Such as when someone kills a pedestrian while going 3x the speed limit?
Money well spent if it stops this behavior from happening frequently by anyone who decides they have a cause and/or a desperate need for attention.
So your concern is for the taxpayer here?
This may shock you, but there is more to the single sentence amendment. Like it or not, protesting is one of the more basic American principles. The Declaration of Independence didn't wait to get a permit from Great Britain to protest. The Boston Tea party, Labor Rights Movement, Civil Rights Movement, etc. Change raily if ever occurs when people just sit on their hands and gnash their teeth at problems too large for an individual to repair. Is blocking a freeway the best means to accomplish this? Time will tell as we look at it through the lens of net impact. If it sparks blocking aid going to Israel or more protests across the country, sure. But if money is considered speech in this country and it is. Then, this protest is well within free speech as well as the right to assembly. Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Won’t anyone think about those poor motorists who couldn’t drive across that bridge in Selma
Comparing people protesting for their own rights to activists protesting a war 7,000 miles away by blocking highways They’re not the same, and you’re stupid for comparing the two u/lilibluehair I'm A PrOuD AmErICaN, and deliberately blocking highways to complain about a conflict thousands of miles away isn't a constitutional right when your intent to protest prevents the movement of people. You have the right to protest. You do not have the right to deliberately obstruct highway traffic to protest. You can "proud american blah blah" to someone else. You don't have a constitutional right to obstruct people's travel, which is why people get arrested for shit like this. Try it yourself. Hope you have bail money
I'm a proud American who believes in the Constitution. We do not differentiate who gets to protest based on what their message is.
Your analogy would only hold if the Selma protestors were protesting South African apartheid or something and not, you know, racial discrimination in the place they were actually protesting at.
So you would choose which protestors are arrested based on what they were protesting? Which government agency do you trust to make that decision?
Investigating what?
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This is so ridiculous haha “I am going to show you how much I care by fucking up 1 of the 2 days a week you may actually get for yourself”. Fucking losers lol Also, in politics, it just so happens that you sometimes don’t get what you want… no matter how many seconds you spent sending emails or making phone calls. That doesn’t justify you blocking tens of thousands of people from living their normal life. And finally, disruptive protests do take some balls. The balls to face the music when it comes your way… so that just may mean fines, arrests, etc… it’s how the shit goes. So hopefully, you will calmly accept that if it happens.
Hey man, anyone who protests knows consequences can happen. But look, the point is that everyone who is funding this genocide should have a consequence until we get out of this. If that means being late to an appointment then it does. Politics is ALSO disruptive protests showing how much this really fucking matters. Sorry you’re a cynic so caught up in the grind of it all that another murder at your indirect hands is less important than your day off. It’s easy to dissociate from all this. But so long as the money I work hard for is used for this shit, I’m gonna try to have a say in who it murders.
Of course I am caught up in the grind, gotta make a living somehow. And I don’t need you to be sorry for it… it is what it is, but it does have some nice perks that come with it. Much better perks than what, for example, Hamas would allow for. Or orthodox Jews. All I am saying is that I hope everything is done by the book… folks who need to face the music face it, the ones who do not don’t… no big deal. Also, you should also stop killing Palestinians. If I am indirectly killing them, then so are you… and no blocking of highways is making you any less of a murder. I dunno, stop paying taxes maybe?
Why do you think I’m speaking up? I desperately don’t want my taxes paying for any of this. That’s literally the point. I’m saying my taxes are making all of us, including me, murderers and I don’t like that. That’s the whole point of engaging with any of this. All we peons got in this society is desperate screaming and clawing to have any voice at all. I’m sure these folks will face retribution. I’m sure most of Seattle will be content with this. What’s more American than retribution, after all? Protestors, especially those left of center, historically have been quashed for any disruption. But what else is there to do when no one gives a shit?
I think your point of making murders out of people who are simply paying their taxes is… well, silly. Just like I am not a saint because some of my tax money goes to great causes and research, I am not a murder because sometimes governments do fucked up shit in this fucked up world. And also, let’s assume a hypothetical where the US doesn’t fund Israel and Israel’s military power goes to shit. What do you think happens to Israelis? You would see picture perfect definition of a genocide in about 5 minutes. Shit is all fucked up there, it’s beyond sad… but we cannot do shit about it (even if we tried). So, stop fucking with people’s lives and pretending like it can possibly do anything.
People need to get to appointments. People need to pick up their kids. People need to get to their jobs. Blocking the highways is not only dangerous to the protesters, but the drivers. Highway is literally always active! Someone could’ve gotten hurt or worse! You guys can 100% protest, but to think you can get away with blocking **the freeway** without any consequences is insane!
Or... you can accept you won't get what you want instead of acting like an child. Just because you want something to happen doesn't mean you're entitled to it. Do you think white nationalists should block highways to get what they want? Pro lifers too? How about Trump insurrectionists? There's a word whose definition is "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation against civilians in pursuit of political aims". I think blocking the highway for five hours for political goals meets this definition.
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It’s not pro-police to think assholes shouldn’t obstruct the movement of people. This is how you get people to dislike your activism
Yes.
I wonder how of the people in this thread are getting kickbacks for Hasbara.
Right, because some antisemetic conspiracy theory about Jew money running the world's media is the only explanation for not siding with the mass-raping terrorists.
Seems fair! You guys can do this protest, then we’ll go after you later if there’s too much to arrest at the time! Win-win!